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Ep. 10 Hereditary (2018)
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Nick and Gerald are joined by a special guest Tyler to discuss Ari Aster's Hereditary. Whats your interpretation of the movie?
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Appearance
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode 10 of the two guys one screen podcast. My name is Nick and I'm Gerald and today's episode Hereditary, this is the kickoff of our Halloween spooky season horror month a little spoiler we did most of the month recorded already and it's not even October yet and Um, but there's a special episode because we were joined, uh, our first guest on the two guys, one screen podcast. Uh, so technically it is now the three guys, one screen podcast. Uh, you may have heard him on his legendary iconic one season podcast run. How about them? Halfbacks.
00:00:41
Speaker
He is a chronic fantasy football choker and a proclaimed biggest fan of our podcast ah Everybody out there listening. Please give it up for our good friend Tyler. What's up?
00:00:57
Speaker
Tyler welcome ah We're so excited to have you here. Obviously a very good friend of ours yeah ah What so you did request that we do hereditary? ah When we offered you know, we asked for movie reviews um and then Gerald and I kind of had The idea to do this for our horror month. What what drew you to doing hereditary?
Hereditary: Movie Suggestion and Initial Impressions
00:01:20
Speaker
So I was you guys were asking for suggestions for what you should watch and I didn't want to just give out like my favorite movies I wanted one that's critically acclaimed people really like hereditary or
00:01:33
Speaker
it's kind of ah polarizing because some people really like it like Gerald was saying I was but speaking to him about this earlier some people don't like it ah and I think I wanted to hear what you guys have to say about it if you guys like it or not how you interpreted it shit like that o sorry hey Are you a positive of thing? Shit. Oh, yeah. I like a curse. I mean, we can we can plot cunts, dude. ah yeah The self-proclaimed biggest fan of our podcast. By the way, if you're out there and I know there's one certain round person out there that would. If you feel that you are a bigger fan than Tyler is of the podcast, write in. Prove it.
00:02:23
Speaker
Prove it ah let us know tell us why get your logo tattooed on you and we'll believe you ah um Yeah, I I Didn't realize this movie was so polarizing. I guess just because of my who I follow online most people I Thought love this movie. I'm kind of just warm on it. I'm not like over the moon spoiler, but Yeah, I guess I guess there are I mean there's obviously to be always gonna be haters, right?
00:02:53
Speaker
I was expecting to be more wowed because the average on letterbox is a four and you don't usually get an average letterbox rating that high. I normally see like, you know, 3.5, 3.7 maybe. Sure. Cause this, this was my first watch. And which is surprising, um, considering I like horror and I've seen midsummer, uh, but I'll get to that point later. It will get to that point later, for sure. Yeah, so that is, i'm I'm kind of in the same boat as Gerald. I didn't, I mean, well, you know, I won't say exactly how I feel about it, but I i heard people loved this movie, so I had to watch it, and when I watched it, I was like, really? This is like, everybody is obsessed with this? Yeah, so Tyler, this was your, you watched this the second time for the pod? Yes. This is my third watch.
00:03:44
Speaker
So we got a one, two, three. Oh, we got one, two, three. Yeah. um The first time I watched this was back in 2022 and I watched it last October just randomly and then I did it again for the pod. I'll save my feelings, but I've I've gradually warmed up to I think Ari Aster is one of those directors who's always going to be polarizing. ah Maybe not as much as like an M Night Shyamalan type, but.
00:04:11
Speaker
ah His movies always have discourse, regardless. I feel like his movies, you need to watch more than once to truly like grasp it. Oh, 100%. And we'll we'll get into his other filmography, I'm sure, later. But like Midsummer, I hated for how long did I hate that movie for? Forever. I hurt my soul. And I've come around in that film. You want to hit with the with the plug, Gerald?
Podcast and Personal Promotions
00:04:39
Speaker
ah Sure, everybody go follow us on Instagram two guys one screen pod Send any comments concerns requests two guys one screen pod at gmail dot.com and follow us on letterboxed link in the description watch the clips Yes Jill I not Gerald Tyler you have anything you want to promote you want to plug other ah podcast appearances.
00:05:03
Speaker
not No, I've ah I've had a few failed podcasts since we've been on one together, but ah they're not worth plug-in So I'm probably gonna do a survivor podcast in the future I just need someone who actually watches it to do it with like the TV show. Yes i'm obsess Okay, that's actually good to know I feel like I was just talking to somebody the day who like loves watching Survivor at work Send them my way. I literally, I have like two random people I know who really like Survivor and I've grown super close to them just because no one else likes Survivor. Huh. Yeah, yeah. I get that and lost confused and lost as fake ri ah and survivors may be real. Yeah, no, it's definitely real. it's It's like overproduced, but it's definitely real. I've seen Naked and Afraid.
00:05:54
Speaker
Yeah, i I fuck with naked and afraid. It's almost like survivor, except in survivor, they're clothed. Is afraid the one where like ah they have to last the longest and like the last person out there wins like like they can quit at any point and the last person to quit or is that a different?
00:06:14
Speaker
they made They made naked and afraid. At first, it was just a man and a woman that had to survive and get to like the other side of the island after a couple of days get picked up. But they changed it into a group contest where the last person, ah lot like who didn't quit, would win the contest. OK. Yeah. ah I was going to say something. Oh, I get.
00:06:37
Speaker
Castaway and Lost Confused. There's absolutely no reason why but I do. Castaway is like the Tom Hanks movie? Yeah. With like Wilson? Right. I mean that's the same old as Gerald getting, oh Castaway and Lost Confused. That's fair. That's odd. It was a TV show and a movie I shouldn't get mixed up. You're saying that's odd, like getting Lost and and Survivor mixed up is any better. ah They're lost in both of them, kinda. Tom Hanks was lost. They're trying to survive.
00:07:06
Speaker
Was Tom Hanks the from Hanks? We're trying to survive. Wilson's not a real person. Yeah. Damn, you guys said that at the same time. Hey, do you think he fucked that ball?
00:07:18
Speaker
I mean, it has the little hole. It wasn't rhetorical. Um. Sorry. I'm sorry.
Nostalgic TV Show Comparisons
00:07:26
Speaker
Maybe he like drew a different face on it and made it like a girl. And then, oh, like the mayor in Nightmare Before Christmas, his head spins and it's a different race. that So if he if he just needs a friend, it's the guy, if he needs something to fucking beat his dick to, it's the girl. Because I mean, get being lost or stranded on an island is bad enough, but not being able to beat your meat. I'd probably go crazy. Yeah. Well, he did go crazy, actually.
00:07:53
Speaker
You just don't have cheeks to use. Well some people need, yeah, some people need the visual cues. We can like, couldn't have a crab or something, right? Oh yeah. Hey, I mean a hermit crab. It's pretty good. Are you saying a hermit crab gets the job done for you, Tyler? Yeah. Alright. You might be able to find slugs out on the island. ah Oh yeah, that's a little weird. Hey, but they're moist, right?
00:08:18
Speaker
Yeah, given enough water, they get pretty big. Jesus. Personal experience. but Give me enough water, I get pretty big. ah we should ah We should address that. We should be announcing the winner of the horror bracket ah today as you're hearing this. But unfortunately, we had to record this ahead of time because I had to change the schedule date to record this, I think, four times.
00:08:44
Speaker
But when when the horror bracket ends on October 1st, we will post on October 1st who won the bracket. Well, yeah This is crazy. I don't even get to find out who wins early What's the point of me being here if I don't get spoilers? We're gonna spoil all hereditary for you He watched it ah Yeah, but I think we'll get into the review of Hereditary.
Casting and Performances in Hereditary
00:09:12
Speaker
Tyler, as a self-proclaimed biggest fan of our podcast, I'm sure you're familiar, ah we do a scene by scene breakdown. Hopefully you you watched the movie. And if you have anything to say, just feel free to say it. All right, so Hereditary released 2018, and yes, I almost forgot to read the cast again. You got Tony Collette, who plays Annie Graham.
00:09:38
Speaker
Uh, Alex Wolf plays Peter Graham. Shout out Naked Brothers Band. Shout out who? Naked Brothers Band. Alex Wolf was in the Naked Brothers Band. Do you guys know what that is? The fuck is the Naked Brothers Band? It was like a Nickelodeon show. Yeah. Not a true fan. I was watching Multiplication Rap. I forgot about that. I literally have never heard of that. That's ah that's an interesting name. Were they were they actually naked?
00:10:07
Speaker
Unfortunately, not because they were like kids. Ah. um Yeah, so Gabriel Byrne plays Steve, ah Steve Graham and Dowd plays Joan. Milly Shapiro plays Charlie Graham. And. I think that's all I'm going to shout out. You got a bunch of the teachers, you got the Stoner kids. Yeah, it's good. I think Tony Collette should have at least been nominated for some kind of Oscar for her performance in this. Yeah, I think across the board, people agree that she was definitely snubbed.
00:10:48
Speaker
ah Because her performance in this is unreal, right?
Opening Scenes and Family Setup
00:10:52
Speaker
You don't see that very often, especially in horror, like, no, I mean, there are some scenes where it's like, God damn. Yeah.
00:11:00
Speaker
All right, ah so the film opens with some words on the screen ah talking about the matriarch of the Graham family. ah Her name is Ellen Taper Lee. ah She died at 78 years old, had prolonged illness, and essentially it's just giving you the family tree of of this family. So Ellen is Annie's mother.
00:11:27
Speaker
After that, you are looking at a tree house through like a window of a room and you get some credits. There's a slow pan over into this room that you're looking out of, which is like an office workshop. It's a room in their house. Yeah, it kind of reminded me of like the attic in Beetlejuice. Yeah, that's fair, actually. Just models.
00:11:56
Speaker
Right. Models. And when Gerald says models doesn't mean hot women, he means models of like houses. Tony Collett, I believe her, I don't know if it's her business, but her project is called, is called Small Works. She builds these models of towns. She has a model of like their house.
00:12:17
Speaker
And there's some ominous music. It zooms in ah to a bedroom of a model, and then like that actually becomes a scene. That was a dope shot. Yeah, that was a cool shot. The cinematography, I guess, minor spoiler, and the score, the music in this were amazing. I agree. Yeah, fantastic.
00:12:43
Speaker
And this is where we meet Peter, who is asleep in his bed. And his father, Steve, enters the ah his bedroom and wakes him up and gives him a suit. And he asks Peter if he's seen his sister, Charlie, ah because she's not in a room. And he's like, I don't know where she is. He's literally asleep.
Strange Family Dynamics in Hereditary
00:13:04
Speaker
So Steve goes outside so to go look at this tree house we saw in the beginning of the film.
00:13:10
Speaker
When he walks outside, the camera kind of pans over and Annie is already in the car seated waiting for the rest of the family to join her. ah We cut to the tree house inside, a nice ass tree house. Any of y'all have tree houses? No. No, I had one. I did write down in my notes, baller tree house. That was a cool, I don't know how it even stays up because there's no supports on it. It's like held within the trees. It's a cool ass tree house. i It's nice.
00:13:41
Speaker
I agree it should fall over, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Way better than Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. That one looked run down, not maintained. But that was the point, I think. ah By the way, go listen to that episode. Not doing well.
00:13:58
Speaker
ah So Steve enters the treehouse, and we find Charlie asleep in the treehouse. And he's pissed, because I guess it was cold outside. And why the fuck are we sleeping in a treehouse? Yeah, and he asks.
00:14:10
Speaker
Peter, the brother, if she slept, if he knows if she slept in her room and then when he gets up there, he gets mad at her. Like it's something that she does. It's like a recurring thing for her to not sleep in her room. It's like she's drawn out to the tree house for some reason. You know, I never thought about it like that and it's a valid point. Holy shit. Otherwise I would have just been like, why is this dumb bitch in a tree house? That's what I said. You just kind of blew my mind.
00:14:40
Speaker
Look at the fucking coming in guns a blazing with the fucking analysis here, at Tyler. That kind of brings the movie into a whole new perspective.
00:14:49
Speaker
And the the blue and red coloring of the tree house, uh, shows off the bisexual undertone of the now, although there are ah lights in the hallway of this house later in the movie and they're just lights, but the ceiling like lights up red, which was a choice. I'm pretty sure that's that actually, it's not, I mean, you don't notice it until later, later in the film. It's not like off the rip. You're going to see that. Yeah, but it's definitely like an intentional.
00:15:19
Speaker
Sure. Cool. Uh, so we're at the funeral now and, uh, Annie gets up to speak and she talks about how her mother was a very secretive and private person. And she feels like she's committing a betrayal, just being up there talking about her and says that her mother had private rituals, uh, friends and anxieties. Uh, she was difficult to read as a person and incredibly stubborn. and
00:15:48
Speaker
ah We cut to Charlie who's just staring at her grandma's body. eating a yeah ah chocolate bar. And she watches this lady, I guess, apply lipstick something. Yeah, lip balm. It looked like Vaseline. Maybe it was like glossy. Horned up.
00:16:07
Speaker
ah ah Yeah. And her father, ah Steve, walks over. And she he asks if there's any nuts in the chocolate bar that she's eating. She's always eating.
00:16:23
Speaker
ah chocolate bar like in every scene in this movie yeah and the way that he says it he's like are there any nuts in that you know you can't have nuts and then the mom walks over and she's like there's not nuts in that bar right yeah and they're saying this to the daughter so she also and she they're saying it like she keeps eating nuts like she's doing it on purpose almost She can eat these nuts. Nice. Too young. Set up that stupid six-year-old. She can give you a head if you know what I'm saying. Hereditary. whos good
00:17:00
Speaker
Boiler. There's also... but Yeah, i don't I didn't say it because hopefully you guys know by now we're going to spoil the fuck out of this movie. So if you haven't seen it, come back later and watch it.
00:17:13
Speaker
I suppose I really can't blame you for not seeing it since Gerald only watched it for the first time today There's a point before the dad walks over ah When she's eating the chocolate bar that you hear the the fucking tongue click. Yeah fucking hate that shit and Also
Artistic Choices and Thematic Relevance
00:17:33
Speaker
Charlie was drawing in her book during the second during like the funeral Session, I guess you want to call it while like her mom was talking and the dad was like fucking stop that shit What is it with us reviewing movies that always have like a someone who likes to draw? We that's our thing. This is a third one now 2007 podcast and now we're ah ho Now we're gonna start reviewing episodes of Bob Ross Nice we can do that. Let's look if you want that right into the podcast. It'll be a patreon exclusive whenever we get there
00:18:08
Speaker
whenever we get there. Uh, so yeah. And then as Tyler said, uh, Annie comes over like right after, like, are you sure there's no nuts in there? And, uh, we cut to them getting home. This happens a couple of times in the film. They're super anal about like taking their shoes off in the house, which is like relax. I'm not super anal about it, but I'd prefer if you took your shoes off, but I'm not going to yell at you over it. You know,
00:18:37
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, he was a little he's pretty stubborn about it. Yeah. Yeah, actually, I didn't catch that at that scene, but when she goes out, not really a spoiler, so I'll say it when. ah Charlie goes out side at another point like and her mom yells at her for going out barefoot and then she comes back in. She tries to go up the stairs and her mom's like, take your socks off.
00:19:02
Speaker
And I didn't really catch it until you said something because i yeah I mean, you know, if I'm the parent, I'm not letting my kid walk their grubby, wet ass socks up the stairs, tracking mud all over the house. So basically what you're saying is she had it coming, huh? Yeah. Yeah. But I didn't realize it was like a there's a lot of like little things you don't really catch. Yeah. Like I said, this is my third watch and I definitely didn't get it on my first watch.
00:19:27
Speaker
Uh, my first watch, I just thought it was weird. Yeah. Uh, so the kids disperse and Annie's asking Steve if she should feel sadder and she feels weird, you know, that her mother passed away.
Complex Emotions and Family History
00:19:42
Speaker
And we cut to her working on her, her small works, as I said, these little models. And I'm like, all of this is not just, Oh, I'm building this set. It's all reflective of her life. Very obviously. Right. It seems like a coping mechanism.
00:19:58
Speaker
Yeah, ah sure. Yeah, no, that's that's a really good. ah I kind of have a theory I'll bring up at the end, but I think Gerald's definitely on to something with the coping mechanism. I definitely think that's.
00:20:15
Speaker
I mean, we see throughout the film without divulging all that, ah she pushes herself to keep working on this project. So she's working on, it's it's literally her mother, or it's a woman, but it's her mother, in a hospital bed.
00:20:31
Speaker
dying I mean she died in the house in their house ah under hospice care, but Essentially to her mother dying in the in a hospital bed ah Steve then we cut to Steve saying good night to Peter, which is just this the whole family dynamic is very weird Not like they're all like very kind of I almost want to say like wooden, shallow. they don't like There's not too much emotion as far as like positivity.
00:21:00
Speaker
yeah right um The dad seems to be the most normal. well yeah i think He seems so disconnected to me. he I feel like he's doing that on purpose. what Well, dad is not related to the grandma.
00:21:16
Speaker
right so i think that the grandma was weird now her daughter obviously is weird and now these kids are 50 percent weirdos and one was raised by the grandma so she's like 75 percent weirdo so that's why the brother like he's not that weird he's just like a horny teenager Which is a weird person, but not- The brother is weird, for sure. A hundred percent of the brother is weird. Not as weird as Charlie is. If you could go back in time and hang out with the three of us as teenagers, you'd be like, oh yeah, no, teenagers are just fucking weird.
00:21:53
Speaker
I'm not going to disagree and say I wasn't a fucking weirdo when I was younger. That's 100% true. I would beat the shit out of 13 year old me. Are you kidding me? I'd fuck the shit out of 13 year old view you, you know what I'm saying? I don't blame you.
00:22:08
Speaker
ah ah heard And so Annie's tucking Charlie into bed and this is an odd scene for sure.
00:22:20
Speaker
and she asked her you know what she's drawing and we're talking about Ellen the grandmother and you know Charlie was her favorite now this is I didn't get this the first two watches I didn't get this until I watched honestly immaculate ah Charlie said ah Charlie says Annie says to Charlie that she never cried as a baby even when she was born. Now the last time I remember a baby not crying when they were born, it was Satan, the spawn of Satan, or something of that equivalent.
00:22:57
Speaker
right and you know charlie's charlie's asking you know who's gonna take care of me and and he's like i am and he said yeah well when you die who's gonna do it yeah that that was just like such a weird and like it seems like she's just dunking on her dad she's like yeah dad fucking sucks at being a parent if you die like i'm cooked I think she's dunking on both of them, honestly. True. i don't think she likes I don't think she likes either of them. Because there's that scene later where she's like, I want grandma. and that's like all But also, she could be, well, we'll get to that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We'll get to that. I don't like the wishy-washy-ness of it. Because clearly, you know she's like, I want grandma. She's not drawn to her mother. But at the same time, she's still like, but I'll talk about it when we get to the next scene, I guess.
00:23:48
Speaker
But I also think her dad's a pussy-ass bitch, I'm not gonna lie to you. Yeah, yeah. I think he i don't think he's as bad as the as a dad in Speak No Evil, but he's not great. I think he's stressed out the situation that he's in. Yeah, he's just kind of going with the flow, like whatever happens, happens. He's just trying to get onto the next day. He's trying to keep his own sanity.
00:24:08
Speaker
Right. I mean, do you see the house they're living in? He thought he was just married's a nice house. He told anarian individual that she was just going to cruise out, hang out on six days a week, you know, take, drive the kids home from school and shit. And then all of a sudden now he's got a crazy mother-in-law, crazy wife, crazy kid. And he's like, Oh my fucking God, this backfired. There's only one thing I hate about this house. What is it? I hate any house.
00:24:36
Speaker
with like those pull-down stairs into the attic. Yeah. Oh, so my house. Yeah. They give me anxiety. I mean, you don't have to go, no one's forcing you to go up there. No, but how do you bring stuff upstairs? You go up the ladder. Yeah, exactly. You put it up there. have an a want to use it You use two people and you carry it up there. Okay. But if you're carrying like a fucking bin, right? Like a big ass bin. Two people.
00:25:02
Speaker
So one's going up backwards, up those stairs or sideways. The best way to do it is you got to handle, you know, and you hold, you hold one side and you climb up the ladder and the person's following you and is like bearing the other side of it up the ladder with you. And then they just pushed in. I know why you have anxiety about it. When I watched my dad fall out of the attic when I was younger. Well, cause the hat, the attic I had, uh, growing up,
00:25:30
Speaker
was literally like a staircase. A staircase would be so much easier. I agree. That's railing and everything had its own door. I mean, literally the part that the brace, the scaffolding, whatever that connects the ladder and the door that pulls down from the ceiling, all that fell out of my my roof when I was younger and my dad was on the ladder.
00:25:55
Speaker
And I just heard him go, oh, he's not dead yet. oh Annie notices after she you know tucks in Charlie the word satiny on the wall. I don't know if it's written or carved. It doesn't really matter. ah And I looked up that word. I'm pretty sure Ari Aster made up his own words for this movie, which is fine. But Google said that this word appears in necromancy and satanic rituals.
00:26:24
Speaker
ah You know, it's pretty close to Satan, so I get it. Sure. Yeah, that that's something with this movie where it's like a little detail that looking back, you're like, oh, that's
Spiritual Themes and Subtle Details
00:26:34
Speaker
kind of cool. But then when you think about the director making it, he just googled like satanic words and he's like, OK, throw that on the bedpost. That'll be a cool detail. So like it's kind of cool. But then once like you think about it, it's like so easy to throw in. And people like glaze this movie for shit like that.
00:26:53
Speaker
It sounded like a resident hater I don't know I go back and forth on this movie, but ah there is There's a lot that I kind of like about it. and There's a lot that like there's too many loose ends for me Okay, that's fair enough. We will we're gonna get to all that And then we cut to Annie going through a photo album and she closes it and she's like aggravated even looking at it and finds a book called ah notes on spiritualism and finds a letter inside. I wrote down the letter, do you want me to read it? Go for it. ah So the letter is from her mother and it says, my darling dear beautiful Annie, forgive me for all the things I could not tell you. Please don't hate me and try not to despair your losses.
00:27:41
Speaker
you will see that they were worth it. Our sacrifice will pale next to the rewards. Love, mommy. Hey, who's still calling their mom mommy? You gotta age out of that shit. And she's like in her 40s. It's like, honestly, calling your mom mommy is worse than, uh, Hoppy. I'm not asking you. Would you not agree?
00:28:06
Speaker
than hoppy. Yeah. Why? Okay. Would you rather be 40 with a stuffed animal that you carry around or still be calling your mom, mommy? Ooh, that one's tough. I'm, I'm saying I'm giving me the stuffed animal animal. Like this, like they're carrying it around all the time, right? Yeah. Like hoppy. Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:27
Speaker
Oh, you're carrying it around like outside of the house. Yeah. but Like if you get a phone call from your mom, you're like, hi, mommy. Or let me call my mommy real quick. The stuffed animal is like a 24 seven thing. Yeah. So is, so is your mom. Yeah. But how often are you saying like her name? Yeah. I mean, my boss knows my mom. So that would be rough. If he's like, Hey, I saw your mom did it yesterday. I'm like, Oh, you saw mommy. That's so cool. He'd be like,
00:28:53
Speaker
ah um like find animal that Every single one of my co-workers is watching me drag a coat of a stuffed animal around work. No, that's not gonna fly. so Okay, it's more uncommon for like a kid like a guy to say mommy than it is for like ah a woman to say daddy ah How about this what if Okay, the mommy thing or when you you can Try to conceal the stuffed animal like let's say you're going to work you like put it in your backpack, but it's on you Yeah, then I'm rocking with the stuffed animal
00:29:28
Speaker
Yeah stuff animals wouldn work or way like you could be like oh yeah it's like my goods like I have a little Buddha statue in my car no one ever roasted me for that I bet if I had like a little stuffed animal on the dash people would be like oh it's that I'm like oh yeah know its it's just you know my mom gave it to me my mommy gave it to me hey you cannot answer a phone call at work and be hey mommy On my on my day um my desk right now, I got ah got Pokemon plushies. See? I'm not making fun of him for that. Yeah, but he's not bringing those out in the public. They're in his house. You want me to? and thats That's your lifestyle decision. I'll pack this little boy where my pecker goes. What do you want? Your little bump on the little bulge.
00:30:11
Speaker
All right. Well, I think what we're trying to say here at the Two Guys One Screen podcast ah is fuck Hoppy. Don't call your mom mommy after ah probably seven and ah justice for Bob. Oh, it's a no justice for Bob, man. I will say I stopped calling my mom and dad, mommy and daddy before my sister did. And my sister is 10 years older than me.
00:30:41
Speaker
Oh, so we got to get your sister on the podcast, take that sister whose name I'm not going to drop. Drop her name. What is it? Oh, am I going to drop her name? Is that what you asked? It's her first name. Oh, I won't. I won't give up. Julia like that. I won't let you guys know. her name All right. We got to, we got to get back on track. but This is going to be like 15 minutes of just that.
00:31:05
Speaker
Annie's about to leave, and she turns the light out, and she thinks she sees something in the corner, and she it's Ellen. And she turns the light back on, and Ellen's gone. And then looks behind her, and the model, there's a model there, and I'm not sure, are they trying to say you're the model moved? It's a different position? Yeah, i it looked like it did, but then once it zoomed in, it didn't look like it moved at all, so I couldn't tell. But I don't know what the original position was, but what it's in now is,
00:31:36
Speaker
Annie with a child in her bed and Ellen standing next to with her tit out. Confirmed tit out. um She goes into the bedroom and tells ah Steve that she scares herself in the attic, but kind of brushes it off. And we cut to Charlie in school and she's tinkering with like this. She calls them toys, but like these are toys for like poor kids. I don't know. Like this is garbage.
00:32:03
Speaker
this is like this is like four keys what this is yeah yeah that's a good are you hating on forky i know hate towards forky i'm just saying it's like forky yeah forky was hating on forky it's forky story three or toy story four four fuck four oh yeah no three was so great and they fucking had to make a fourth one and i'm making the fifth one i was gonna say i five it was good i like fucking real We're going to review it. We have to never mind a little behind the scenes. Yeah, we'll review it. and So she's tinkering with this little poor bum ass toy and ah she's supposed to be taking a quiz and the teacher is real sassy with her.
00:32:46
Speaker
No, the teacher was way too nice. She's like, maybe we'll finish with the toy at the end. My teacher would have been like, give me that shit. Take your part in the quiz, boy. I think she was passive aggressive talent, to my opinion. I think she gave a lot of sass. She did. Like in the undertone of her voice. Definitely. She's going to feel real sad next week. Giving that sass to that girl.
00:33:04
Speaker
but she that goes me Dead next week. Yeah. All right. Also see the quiz. It was three fucking questions I couldn't come on bro like finish that shit back. They flip it and There's three questions like dog just finish that before your fucking toy take an educated guess is it that whole Does the test having three questions knocked on your rating a bunch? Yeah
00:33:30
Speaker
so So Charlie's like annoyed at your signature quiz and a bird flies into the window. Did you guys catch the bird flying by before it crashed in the window? Where did it completely jump scare you? I saw it, like I could see it, like I figured it was gonna happen, but the jump did still get me. Yeah, I saw it as well. um Also, fair enough I've seen a lot of birds hit windows. I've never seen a bird leave blood on a window.
00:33:57
Speaker
Yeah. Movie. I can't magic. I can't say I was a bird. I've seen a bird hit a window ever in my life. It also seems like Charlie did that intentionally because the bird hit it right after she was forced to stop playing with her toy. Trash. Yeah, her trash. Stop playing with your trash, dude. What do you want her to play with Jack? What'd you say? You want her to play with like Jacks?
00:34:25
Speaker
jax this is 2018 like that would be an upgrade right where's her fucking psp or something i don't know uh she's a weird kid i i get it um this bird flies into the window scares everybody and charlie's eyeing up these scissors ah We cut back to Peter, who's also in class. And he's just staring at the girl in front of his ass, not listening to his teacher. And his teacher was talking about something ah that's probably very, very relevant to the plot. Yeah, I actually liked this. it was It was on the second watch. I thought it was down my throat. But the first time, I didn't even realize it. So. What do you like down your throat? ah Gerald. Oh, hey. How are you doing? How are you doing?
00:35:11
Speaker
yeah it was something having to do with choice and it was either mythology or so or a story from the bible one of the two yeah i think it was mythology and it was uh i have he they said like it's uh oh you have it so say because i don't have it i don't have the exact quote but they said the character is showing arrogance and he thinks he has a choice and he doesn't And then they say, is it more of a tragedy that he doesn't have a choice or if he fails and he did have a choice? And then the other girl in the class says, they it feels like they're all pawns in this horrible, helpless machine.
00:35:49
Speaker
Then this next part kind of annoyed me a little bit, but his friend texts him to go for a smoke break, and his friend's like diagonally behind him. yeah And they just show him going like, yeah, we'll go smoke. Yeah, like, no one's fucking doing that, dude. Like, that's just going to give away that you're texting or some shit. The classic inability to write an accurate teenager strikes again. Oh, man. Like, I would text all the time in class, but I would have my shit like all the way down, and I wouldn't be looking at the person I'm texting. Right.
00:36:19
Speaker
ah The teacher notices he's not paying attention and calls him out and asks him to chime in on what they're talking about and he has no idea.
Charlie's Strange Behaviors
00:36:26
Speaker
And then the girl he's been staring at turns around and looks at him. ah We cut to Charlie who's standing out front of the school and she's cutting that dead bird's head off. Yeah. And cuts it clean off with a pair of just like arts and crafts looking scissors and she puts it in her pocket and she notices This girl lady, not girl. Holy shit. This lady off in the distance, like across the street, staring at her and waving at her. I'm assuming this is Ellen. I'm not sure who else it would be. It wasn't Joan. No, I think it's one of the one of the various cultists. OK, that's a that's a possibility.
00:37:09
Speaker
but Yeah, I think anytime there's just like a random person. It could have been Joan, or sorry, it could have been Ellen though. I'm not entirely sure. It was an old woman. Yes. ah We got to Annie working on her model. And Steve comes home. ah So she goes to greet him. And her mother's door is open. And I wrote that she noticed a triangle marking on the floor. But I don't think she noticed it. ah Yeah. i It got me both times I watched it. I saw the triangle. I was like, oh, like who put that there? And then she but she's just like the doors open. Yeah, but I think there was something going on with it. I think there is for sure. yeah often percent I think the mother Annie knew more than the movie leads us on to because when she reads that note earlier that her mom left her, she puts it away in a way that like
00:38:03
Speaker
she react She is overreacting in a bad actor if the case is she's just like, oh, my mom was such a bitch to me. But if she knows that like her mom is like some sort of demonic, satanic cultist, her reaction, I think, is good acting and on point. And she was good acting throughout the movie. So I think Annie knows more than the movie even shows us directly.
00:38:30
Speaker
So I think she knew something about the triangle. I bet it's some sort of satanic circle.
00:38:38
Speaker
I mean, I might be thinking too far. We're not going to ruin the end of the movie yet. But probably what you said, I agree with the other part. I don't think she knew more than the movie leads on, to be honest with you. I genuinely think some of this was like a first time because she says later in the in this meeting, we'll get to about her, how her mother, her were on and off and had no contact. Right.
00:39:00
Speaker
I mean, it's there's large periods of her life we come to find out that Annie had no idea about. Right. Because if she did, I mean, what's the point of this movie? Right. Well, that ties into the the if she knew she had a choice and she didn't have a choice, it doesn't make it sadder. So if she knew what was going on or if she didn't know what was going on, would it be more tragic?
00:39:29
Speaker
Maybe that's the foreshadowing it's trying to tell us.
00:39:35
Speaker
Tower with the big, big brain on us right now, dude. He's not lying. yeah you lost You fucking completely lost me right there. But we're going to, we're, if I was paying more attention to what the teacher was saying, I could probably give you some kind of retort, but you got me.
00:39:50
Speaker
yeah we've got an's not big deal No, we're not gonna cut it um we're dumb I don't have to come smart i don' i'm fucking Intelligent ah So she makes Steve go lock the door To her mother's room and the cemetery calls Steve and tells him that ah Ellen's ah grave has been desecrated and Steve's like well, she's only been there a week and And ah he hangs up and Annie wants to know what's going on. And Steve's like, oh, it's just some bullying, billing bullshit. Yeah, I think it's hilarious that, ah you know, as the viewer, we can't hear the call. So he goes, desecrated, you say? And then the exception's like, what was that? He's like, oh, it was just a bill. Oh, yeah they desecrated the bill? That's so weird. I agree. ah But Annie's way too.
00:40:43
Speaker
fragile uh to be given that kind of news right at the point in the point of the movie uh annie she does a couple of times in the film but says she's going to the movies uh and ends up going to a grief therapy group uh we go inside and the floor is open for newcomers to speak and she kind of raises her hand then she's like no And the guy's like, yeah, you know, like whenever you feel comfortable, she's like, eh, no. And then end up, you know, spilling her guts. And I think this does work for an exposition dump because someone in her position is definitely probably exploring some kind of therapy. Yeah. ah She talks about how her mom died a week ago and.
00:41:24
Speaker
About a week ago.
00:41:27
Speaker
She was resistant to go to this whole thing, but she was forced to come earlier, she says. I don't know what happened before all this that she was forced to go to ah group therapy, but maybe you for her brother.
00:41:43
Speaker
That's a very valid point, Tyler, but I don't know. I don't even remember that happening. So no, but she does say, you know, she goes on to say here that her mom was her dad, her brother at 16 hanged himself in her mom's bedroom, their mom's bedroom. So possibly, but she makes it sound like it wasn't that long ago. And I'm sure her brother, when he was 16, that's like 30 years ago. Yeah. 20, I don't know. Younger though. Or was it when she did what she did to her son?
00:42:12
Speaker
Yeah, but it's grief. She didn't kill anybody. Nobody's dead after that incident. Could have been. Yeah, but don't why would you go to therapy? You wouldn't go to grief therapy for not killing somebody.
00:42:29
Speaker
Yeah, you just go to you probably go to a fucking mental ward, honestly. Yeah. for attempted murder Yeah, ah her and her mom were estranged, but she loved her and her mom had disassociative identity disorder and dementia. And she has her father died when he was young of starvation because he was psychotically depressed and he starved himself.
00:42:51
Speaker
Uh, and as we just said, her brother had schizophrenia and hanged himself at 16 years old saying, uh, his mom put voices in his head or people like Randy Orton. So Annie admits all this and there's a pause in like just everybody looking at her. And then she keeps talking about when Ellen moved into, uh, Annie's house, their house, as I was saying, they were on and off speaking until Steve mandated a ah no contact rule.
00:43:21
Speaker
And Alan was unable to speak to Annie or Peter. And this is where the dialogue is intentional, for sure. And she said that rule was in effect until she had her daughter. And she says, you know, when I had my daughter, which is why I gave her my daughter, gave her her daughter. We mean give. Right. That's why I'm thinking she knows more than she's letting on.
00:43:54
Speaker
But I don't know. They don't explicitly say it. And that seems like a pretty big detail to leave up to. Yeah, because right that she says that her Ellen sunk her teeth into her daughter. So maybe she does. It's possible. But I don't think I like. I don't like her knowing anything. A movie where she. Yeah, I don't like it either because it would make. It would make the reveal like less impactful if she knew that some shit was going on.
00:44:23
Speaker
true Yeah, and it could be ah She gave her her daughter as in like You know like oh they wanted grand babies and she wanted to be a part of her life So like I yeah, it's like help me raise this fucking kid, right?
00:44:41
Speaker
um She feels guilty about all this and doesn't want to express any of her problems to her family because she feels like Her family can't support her and then she goes ah She's to blamed and says she is blamed. And they ask her, know what are you blamed for? And she's like, I don't know. And it cuts to Peter, who's smoking a bong. And his room gets a text message, there's a huge party tomorrow night. um And we cut to Charlie, who's building one of her little trash ass toys. And we get one of those fucking tongue clicks again.
00:45:19
Speaker
And she I don't know if she heard one back or she something caught her attention here and she goes like stands in her bed and I look out the window. Yeah, I thought I think she heard one. OK, that's how I took it. um And we cut to Annie, who's cooking dinner and gets an email from her art gallery asking her where the models are at, like how she's coming along.
00:45:45
Speaker
and we cut back to charlie who's walking off in the yard into that like this field uh looking a little possessed if i say so myself yeah yeah she's definitely in a trance maybe for sure and she's holding that bird head and
00:46:07
Speaker
We cut back to Annie who's working on a model and Peter walks in and asked to borrow the car to go to a school gathering, school barbecue, he calls it. And Annie wants to know if there's any drinking and he's like, nah, there's no drinking or I'm not going to be drinking. Now, she kind of had like a nice parent moment there. He was like,
00:46:31
Speaker
She was like, is there going to be any drinking? He's like, we're high schoolers. We can't even get alcohol. She was like, yeah, that's a lie. But like, are you going to be drinking? I just gave you an answer. And I was like, nah, she dunked on you. she She got your ass. Fair enough. They can't all be good kids like us, Nick. That's true. And now I'm a bum. Look at me. i So she insists that Peter ah takes Charlie with her to the party and they go looking for Charlie and she's not in our bedroom. And we cut to Charlie who sees out in the distance and an older lady ah sitting in a ring of fire. Shout out Johnny Cash. Shout out to him. Shout out that mean we walked the line. Y'all seen that? Yeah. Walked the line's great. um And there's a tongue click.
00:47:23
Speaker
And we get Annie running behind her. This is the part Tyra has mentioned before. ah She's outside with no shoes on. And she'll come back inside. And she hugs away from Annie. She's like, I want grandma. And we're and grandma's dead, hun. Yeah, unless you want to fucking hug a corpse. Right. She's in the attic. ah Spoiler. charlie So Annie tells Charlie she's going to the party with her brother. And Charlie don't want to go.
00:47:53
Speaker
And we cut to Peter and Charlie driving in the car and Charlie just keeps clicking her tongue over and over again. And they passed this telephone pole that I noticed on this rewatch has the inscription design that the grimoire was wearing in the casket around her neck.
00:48:16
Speaker
Mmm, it's like you can barely see it and I always have problem with movies being too dark but for some reason I caught it this time and We cut to Annie who's modeling ah Again very weird like it's like her mom standing in the doorway of their bedroom that the lights off and they're like sleeping and She's just like staring at it it's kind of a weird moment and Uh, we cut to Peter at the party and he go talk to this girl from class that he was staring at. He's like, Hey, do you want to like go smoke weed? I got really good weed, man. yeah And she, is that what the stoners do? ah Yeah, that's what a stoner is. yeah If you're trying to shoot your shot, I feel like that's what you got to do. Hey man, can I get you intoxicated so I can like abuse you? That's where I was going with that. Uh, I don't disagree with you.
00:49:14
Speaker
and So Peter tells Charlie or actually this girl tells Peter that ah these other people in another room have a bomb and Peter goes tell Charlie, you know, I'm going to the room wait here and she wants to go with them be like now wait here and He shows Charlie they're cutting giving out chocolate cake so He was in this room Charlie's eaten cake Should I say it now or wait? Because well, so when he mentions like go get the cake, Charlie says like, well, what's it made out of? And he's like, I don't know. Everybody's eating it. Just eat it. Yeah. Like completely, but completely for like not giving a fuck about her nut allergy. Right. Yeah, he should. I mean.
00:50:00
Speaker
Who puts nuts in cake, though? Put these nuts in your cake. Damn it. Right. Like, I was going to say, like, if you've got a sister with a nut allergy, you've got to be like careful about that shit. But putting nuts in a cake seems like a crime, Loki. There's got to be some, right? What about like carrot cake?
00:50:24
Speaker
What nuts go on a carrot cake? I like the outside. I don't eat carrot cake because I'm not a big fan of eating vegetables with my dessert. That's just ignorant ah you have grandma's favorite chocolate cover you're in chocolate covered cel So yeah ah yeah Peter is ignorant here I agree with the both of you so Charlie's eating this cake piers in the room getting high with these people And his mom's calling, but he's not answering the phone and we come back to Charlie who's tinkering with one of her trashed fucking garbage but sewer toys
00:50:59
Speaker
ah And she gets up to drink some water and comes into the ah the room where Peter's at and she's like I can't breathe He's like, what does that mean? it's Like what the fuck do you think it means?
00:51:11
Speaker
oh fuck cut that um my fucking yeah ah oh he's Holy shit Wow
00:51:24
Speaker
Oh, we got a reset. but Oh, that was good. All right. I mean, you're not wrong technically.
00:51:39
Speaker
And this pissed me off. I get why they did it. But this girl's having an allergic reaction. Where's the EpiPen? For as anal and crazy as the mom is about her daughter's health, where is the EpiPen? Well, i agree in the funeral, they said they didn't have it either. So I guess they're pretty bad about carrying it around. She's having an allergic reaction. There's no EpiPen fucking bullshit. And we follow...
00:52:03
Speaker
Peter carrying Charlie out into the car. And she's like literally dying in this backseat. The acting here is very good. Oh, I agree. It was yeah not easy. For a child actor. Yeah, it's very good. And she gets the idea to stick her head out the window.
Charlie's Death: A Major Turning Point
00:52:22
Speaker
And this is an iconic moment in the movie. I'm sure everybody's at least heard about this. You definitely had heard about it before you watched it, right? this Yeah, this is the only part I knew about because I was- I actually didn't know about it before I watched it the first time.
00:52:34
Speaker
When was the first time you watched it? Uh, I want to say like last year. Oh wow. Okay. Okay. That was like insane. But, um, so there's a, the big moment, there's a ah dead deer in the middle of the road and Peter has to swerve and her face gets taken off by a telephone pole. I mean, I remember the first time I watched this and how fucking brutal I was like, cause the first time I watched it to actually, I don't think I knew about it. Uh,
00:53:00
Speaker
Yeah, it fucking rips as soon as you like you're like, holy shit, what did I just watch? The shock value is crazy. Yeah, because it's always one of those things in movies where you're like, they're not going to kill a kid. They know, you know, people don't kill kids in movies, but the movies that do. Shout out to funny games. Shout out to funny games. Yeah. She also seemed like the main character up to that point. So I was like, oh, what the fuck? I actually I grew that. Yeah. She's on the cover for Christ's sakes. Yeah. Yeah. All are.
00:53:30
Speaker
ah Is your cover different, Gerald? Huh? Is your cover different? Aren't they all on the cover for or you have a different copy? I think it's just the mom and her. OK, fair enough. and I thought I put it away. um So this dude is Peter Shook, as he should be. He just killed his sister, technically. Yeah. And his part too, to really show that he's just going into shock. Absolutely. The only thing that I thought was funny and it probably shouldn't be was the the one single tier.
00:54:00
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I felt a little forced. I did like the absolute silence like right after it happened. He just parks the car. It's silent, like zooming out. And I'm figuring they're not going to show it to us. And then it goes into the car showing him. And I'm like, are we going to see it? Are we not going to see it? What's going to happen? Oh, we see it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then they also like to see it ends and we don't see it. Yeah. So he goes to look like you're saying he goes to look in the rear view and it gives you like a little peek, but doesn't show you completely.
00:54:30
Speaker
And he gets home and he just kind of like goes in the house and you hear and he go, oh good, they're home, which is a little on the nose, but whatever. ah And he like just lays in his bed. I assume he doesn't sleep because his eyes are just open. Yeah, and then the camera just pointed at Peter's face and you hear Annie say she's running out to the store where the fuck she's going and the When she goes and discovers the body the unsettling fucking scream. Yeah, I mean you sent me a snapchat of this when you were watching this is so fucking sad and
00:55:04
Speaker
yeah like the next couple parts are like brutal so that then it shows you her head which is being eaten by like bugs yeah it's Annie's in like the bedroom and her husband's trying to like consult her and she's like really screaming that she wants to die and that the pain is too much it was not easy to watch no yeah not at all throwing that thing back though but yeah he was um And then it pans over and Peter's just standing in the hallway listening ah We cut to Charlie getting buried in the camera like goes down with the casket like into the ground baller Sure ah And then we're at the wake where Peter's like not in the room with everybody else and then it cuts to age being asleep in bed and
00:55:58
Speaker
ah We cut to Steve, who walks into Charlie's bedroom and the word Zaza is engraved in the Andy's wall this time. Zaza is like weed. Correct. Which is what he was smoking and not paying attention to his sister. So maybe it was intentional. It's got to be intentional because he had irrational thinking. yeah I mean, rational thought would be bring a fucking epitome with you if you have an allergy, but. Whatever.
00:56:27
Speaker
Yeah, but also don't get high when you're supposed to be like babysitting your sister at a fucking like house party Although I don't he wasn't even high yet when he like left her alone He was just like it was he was driven by the horniness really he Could have been because she's like I can't know he goes she was I can't breathe. He was what do you mean by that? Yeah?
00:56:47
Speaker
by that said
00:56:52
Speaker
So
00:56:55
Speaker
We cut to Peter, or who who he's physically in class but mentally he's not even paying attention. ah The teacher just yappin' and he looks up and in his head he sees the mirror rear view mirror. um And then it cuts to Peter, ah he's smoking with guys outside now and has a ah reaction. And Lily starts like crying and asks one of his buddies to like hold his hand.
00:57:25
Speaker
ah So he's not doing too great He gets home and he like bikes home and Annie is like slumped down in this car watching And as soon as he pulls in to the driveway He like stands outside for him me's a little hesitant and then finally it goes inside and as soon as he goes inside any fucking skirts off in this car
Supernatural Elements and Seances
00:57:46
Speaker
ah And She pulls into the a grief meeting place and and then tries to bail and this lady who is Joan stops her and after she's coming in and Annie tells her she forgot something and Joan says that she recognizes her from the last time that she was there and asks how she's doing and Annie tells Joan you know Charlie died and Joan you know is like oh we you know just why don't you come in or we can grab a coffee and Annie's like nah I don't want to do that and then Joan just dumps under that her son and her grandson drowned
00:58:24
Speaker
Uh, and her like four months ago on her grandson was seven. Um, and she says that these meetings don't make it easier, but it make it, it makes it a less lonely and then gives Annie your phone number. And Annie's kind of shocked like to receive this number. Like you're actually going to give me your phone number. Like you don't even know me. Yeah. She's like, she's shocked that people care. Right.
00:58:50
Speaker
Uh, Annie comes home and Steve sitting, you know, waiting. And, uh, again, it's the, I was at the movies thing. We cut to them laying in bed and it looks like Steve's asleep and you know Annie's lying over her fucking eyes open awake and Steve puts his hand on her shoulder and then she just gets up but she's like I'll be right back and he goes no you won't you're grabbing the blanket because she's going to sleep in the treehouse which I think happened again earlier in the film that I forgot to mention but she since Charlie died she has been going to sleep in the treehouse and
00:59:24
Speaker
Um, we cut to Peter, who's also just laying in bed, fucking zoned out, staring at, uh, the tree house. And here's the ah noise again. And then we cut to, uh, it's like, uh, what do you call those little mailboxes in the doors? Just a mailbox, but it's like yeah in the door mail slit. Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
00:59:48
Speaker
ah And a ah she gets a piece of mail for a seance. And it's like, oh, even if you're skeptical, come try it. We cut to Annie working on her models again. And this is, you know again, the coping mechanism. As she's working on it, she like looks up and has a sticky note ah that has a call gallery about extending the timeline of you know ah submitting this project she has due and Then she spilled some paint on the paper with Jane Jones phone number. So she looks at it She's like, yeah, you know what? I'll go visit Joan and She goes to visit Joan and she's talking about ah when she found Charlie's body It's a little graphic here and she says like the her blood was like black tar and she popped some pills and
01:00:42
Speaker
um When she pops the pills, I'm not sure what they were going for here, but she like finds some nasty shit like on her face. It's like a black speck, I don't know what it is, but Joan asks about her relationship with Peter, and we find out here about Annie's troubled past of sleepwalking. ah She woke up standing next to the kids' beds, because they used to sleep in the same room together, and everyone was covered in paint thinner in matches.
01:01:09
Speaker
Uh, when she woke up, she woke up from the match and, uh, Peter and her have not gotten along ever since cause she can't convince Peter that she was sleepwalking. I have a sleepwalking story for you guys. Uh, of you sleepwalking? Yeah. Okay. Cause I've witnessed one of your episodes. Yeah. So you know, you would know I do sleepwalk and I, I've, when I was younger, I had a serious issue with like sleepwalking and It wasn't diagnosed, they were definitely night terrors. i I'd wake up to myself screaming. That's exactly what I would classify it as. Which is scared the shit out of me. Which is why I probably didn't watch horror movies. That's fair. um But back in the day, we did, I guess I have to say in the public podcast now that I was a Boy Scout. I've been kind of holding that one in the chamber. Preach, I was too. I'll go down with you.
01:02:03
Speaker
I was an Eagle Scout, Tyler. i But I respect i respects you for going down with me. um We went to Gettysburg for a camp out. And this was like a big event. They had a bunch of troops there. um And i my one of my friends and I went to sleep in the tent. And we had our feet out of the tent because it was so fucking hot. We go to bed. I'm telling you, I woke up in the middle of the field.
01:02:31
Speaker
Wow. fuck That's fucking scary. It's fucking dark. It was just dark. And I saw like off in the distance a light. It was like a fire. And I walked, I don't know how long it was. I think I ran.
01:02:46
Speaker
But I like you know went to this fire as a guy but they're like tending to fire I told him like dude, I'm from troop 275 shout out to him ah you know, I think I fucking slept walk out here and he'd fucking help me get back to my My tent like my campsite. I had a shadow. I have no idea what if you're listening, sir I still remember that day night evening um He didn't molest me, so that's good. Yeah, really? That could have been so bad. It's so many different. ah But yeah, he walked me back to my campsite. And i' dude, I mean, that was by far the worst version of it. ah But yeah, I mean, you can say the story you remember, Jill, if you want. If not, I can just say I've woken up screaming more than once. Yeah, I was sleeping. This is well before I ever watched a horror movie.
01:03:39
Speaker
uh yeah so i was like sleeping over at your house and i was on the floor like right next to your bed and like i think i got up to pee or whatever and then i came back so it was like as i was trying to fall asleep and you just like shoot up out of your bed like just yet screaming like i'm sorry i'm sorry and you like went over to the curtains and you like grabbed onto the curtains and i'm just like i did that shit yeah i'm like i looked at you i was like bro Are you good? And like, I guess like you must've like snapped out of it and woke up and you just looked at me and you're like, yeah, you just went back to bed. Holy shit. And you continue to talk to me after that? I shouldn't know if I thought you were going to. I honestly thought you were going to kill me. Oh man. count at you and He's like, don't make it weird, Gerald.
01:04:28
Speaker
Like to your knowledge, do you still do that or are you good now? There's no one here to tell me if I do it. Oh, yeah, but you're not waking up in the hallway. I'm not waking up screaming. No, never. But ah after that time in Gettysburg, I had to like barricade the door of like my tent because I was so scared I'd fucking sleepwalk again. Yeah, it's terrifying. That's the first time I ever heard that story. I've never ah I've never to my knowledge, I haven't slept walk at least since I lived out here since college. Well, no, I actually did have a night terror in college. I'm pretty sure. But ah yeah.
01:05:03
Speaker
So sleepwalk is no joke. I've never let anybody on fire or almost did, but so, uh, they can't get past, you know, Annie and, uh, Peter can't get past this issue because it is fucking pretty crazy. your Mom's gonna let you on fire. Uh, and.
01:05:24
Speaker
We cut to Steve cooking dinner and Peter walks in. ah He tells ah Steve that a friend drove him home and he goes like directly upstairs and fucking Steve's like, hey you guys, I'm for the SAT t course. Like who fucking gives a shit dude? fuck up dude like Yeah, this is what I mean. He's so detached from like all of it. He's just not he he does like have a finally like break down later on the film. But I mean, he's really not there. He's really just clinging on to the normal aspects. Yeah. Yeah. Trying clinging is the better way, you know. Yeah.
01:05:57
Speaker
ah And then he ah we cut to Annie who's building a model of like where her daughter fucking died, which is crazy. ah Steve comes up and is like super perturbed by that. And he's like, don't fucking let you know Peter see this. And and he's like, you know there's no blame in this. It's just a it just a neutral view of the accident. um Right. And why do you need that?
01:06:22
Speaker
I don't know why she made this. Yeah, it's super strange. Like I know I said it's a coping mechanism, but like that's the last part that I'd want to like see every day and part of the coping, you know, that's really facing your ah facing your demons. Yeah, I think ah you're definitely dead on about the coping mechanism thing because Steve says.
01:06:43
Speaker
ah
01:06:45
Speaker
What did you say? He said specifically, he says like this wasn't your fault or like it's a and then she's like, it's a neutral view of the thing So they know that it's a coping mechanism and she's just like, you know, it's just like a neutral view. I don't feel bad about it Yeah, but she does. Yeah. Yeah, she she's clearly Disturbed after what happened, right?
01:07:06
Speaker
um So He comes up like to tell her come have dinner. It's like I'm making dinner He's like i already made it and he's like come down or don't come down. I don't really give a fuck what you do. Yeah So now he's starting to like show a little bit He's kind of sick of her shit, but also, I don't know. I don't know how much time it's been since her daughter died, but I'd imagine you don't like process that ah in a week's time, you know? Right. Right. So like tragically.
01:07:37
Speaker
ah They're all eating dinner quietly, and this is one of the, you know, iconic parts of the movie, one of the most iconic lines in horror film, I think, nowadays.
Family Confrontation and Emotional Tensions
01:07:47
Speaker
ah And Peter tells us that the food's good, and Annie kind of smirks, and she's just playing with her food acting like a fucking weirdo. And Peter asks if she's okay, and if there's something on her mind, and she's like, well, there's something on your mind.
01:08:02
Speaker
ah and Peter thinks that she has something to say. And Annie's like, I'm not going to say it because you're just going to sneer at me. And Peter's like, I don't sneer. They're just bickering at this point. ah and he's like say what you want to say and it's like he says fucking release it and he's like just fucking release me then and then she goes on this fucking tirade which is all over the internet about you know don't fucking swear at me you little shit I'm your mother that was like the big line right in this in this movie um and that she worries and slaves for him but he always has that face on his face which is accurate um what she describes is like you know disdain and always being annoyed
01:08:43
Speaker
And then she just goes back to your sister's dead just yells or his sister is dead And she kind of goes back and forth on this little spiel at first. She's like, you know, it's not I know you're in pain. It wasn't your fault ah No, if she didn't say it wasn't your fault she said I wish I could release you of this and Like have you not feel bad about it, but you killed your sister.
01:09:09
Speaker
So she was kind of low key, like it is your fault. I wish you didn't feel bad about it, but there's nothing we could do. You did it and it's done.
01:09:20
Speaker
but i don't that ah that Everything you just said happened, but I feel like before that, I don't think she was saying that at all. Maybe it's me. Maybe I missed it.
01:09:31
Speaker
No, I might have missed it too. I don't know. But at the the point is, his sister's dead. And um she said it's a waste that she's dead because it could have brought the family together. And you can't take responsibility because it could have brought us together and it didn't. because And then she said because nobody can take responsibility for anything or he can't. um And she can't accept or forgive because no one o admits anything they've done, which is like a huge moment in the movie.
01:10:00
Speaker
uh... he's clearly shocked the dad like barely hanging on uh... so i don't fully uh... so i have a big problem when it comes to showing emotion at certain things. Um, and like death, I mean, I've never been in this situation. I've never killed anybody, but, um, accidentally or intentionally, but like, especially death, like I don't take it very usual. Like, um,
01:10:37
Speaker
Like I don't cry or I don't like show any of that emotion. I'm just kind of like blank faced. So I almost feel like I can connect with him. Yeah. In that regard, because it's not, it's not that I don't care. It's just that I'm trying to process everything and it's just, you know. Right.
01:11:00
Speaker
I don't want to say I'm dead inside, but there's nothing there to feel, you know? No, I'm the same way, Gerald. I don't know how to explain it either. But it's just like, I don't feel bad. And I feel guilty that I should feel worse. But like, I don't. But like, I'm sad. But I'm not like, yeah. Well, the mom expresses that, too, in the beginning of the movie. She asked Steve if she should feel like weird or worse that her mom's dead. And she doesn't feel it. Yeah.
01:11:23
Speaker
ah So the Peter responds back with, you know,
01:11:29
Speaker
Charlie didn't even want to go to this party. And Steve's like, all right, we're done. Don't stop with this. And she storms off and it kind of zooms out a little bit. And Steve kind of puts his hand on Peter's hand ah and then he tries to eat. But he you see him kind of break down a little bit. But that brings back to the whole thing of she of her saying that no one's taking responsibility because she's not taking responsibility for that because she forced Charlie to go with him. Right. And he's not taking responsibility because he lied about it. So, yeah, they're both they're both responsible and neither one wants to admit. Right. So at the end of that, at the end of the day, that argument like resolve nothing. Right. They're all responsible because you have a fucking epi pen. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right. The only guy that's safe is dad. No, dad could have made sure she had an epi pen.
01:12:27
Speaker
Well, the EpiPen part, yeah, but dad's like barely there when any of the important shit happens. He's zoned out, dude. This whole movie, he's just zoned out. He's probably the bread. I mean, she doesn't work, so he's got to be the breadwinner. No, I mean, that gallery thing she's doing is for money for sure. It's not for fun. You think so? She has deadlines to meet. Yeah, it's not for fun. Oh, OK. That's like the whole point of the movie is like it's due in however many months. And she has sticky notes like saying work harder and blah, blah, blah. Extended timeline. I don't think it's just a hobby. I think she does it for work.
01:12:56
Speaker
and Okay, that's what yeah, so what I was just saying She's like zoned out with like her model and it she's thinking of it says keep working And she has to go to the store and get like some supplies and she sees Joan in the parking lot. It's fucking weird Very coincidental like red flag alert. Yeah and Joan tells Annie that she met a spiritual medium ah that performed a seance and brought back a spirit of a man from the 19th century and And he kind of laughs it off. And she's like, well, you know, there were scientists there. They were all impressed. They were all skeptic and they were all impressed. And she's like, I told the meeting to come to my house and she conjured the spirit of her grandson and she heard his voice and felt his presence. And they're right there on the spot and vice her over. Which is nuts. Yeah. Double red flag. like You don't know this woman from a hole in the ground. No.
01:13:52
Speaker
ah So she's we cut to their house or Jones house and Jones performing a seance and they both put their hand on top of this glass and she calls for her grandson Louie and asked him to slide the glass and we watched the the glass slide and he's like shook over this and she looked under the table to see if there's any kind of like scam going on there's not ah and then Joan has Louie slide the glass to answer some yes or no questions. We don't see that because it zooms in on Annie's face. And she feels some kind of presence go by her and she freaks the fuck out. ah And Louie pulls out, or Joan pulls out a chalkboard that I guess was like one of Louie's toys or something. And Louie writes on the chalkboard, I love grandma. And Angie's like, we gotta stop all this, I gotta go. And before she leaves,
01:14:46
Speaker
Joan gives her instructions ah that she needs an item that belonged to her daughter. The whole family has to be in the house and gave her some like instructions, a ah phrase, or something to read. And Annie's about to leave. And Joan tells her, hey, you didn't kill your daughter. And Annie's like, what? And she's like, well, she's not gone. like you know She's still here. ah We cut to Annie driving in the car, probably driving home. And here's the on the way home. Freaks the fuck out again.
01:15:16
Speaker
Now she's lying in bed, probably in the middle of the night, just awake.
Annie's Nightmares and Mental State
01:15:19
Speaker
And she sees these bugs on her pillow. Gotta stop having cookies in bed. Attracts ants. Yeah. And there's a bunch of them by the window. And then ah she gets up and follows this like trail of ants down the hallway. And they lead to Peter's room. And they're like basically coming out of his mouth. This was gnarly. This was gross. Yeah, this was crazy. I don't like bugs.
01:15:43
Speaker
um It cuts and Peter is awake and she's like what he's like. What are you doing in here? You sleepwalking again? And Peter asks, you know, why are you scared of me? And then she's like I never want to be your mother and like covers her mouth real quick So fucking rough And I guess she I guess she said in this scene her mom pressured her and into having children. And then she tried to have a my miscarriage. And she's like, I did everything they said to get a miscarriage. And he was still born. And she was not ready to have children or wasn't ready. Just some really dark shit. And then kind of like the camera cuts back and forth as they're both talking. And you realize they're all they're like both soaking wet. And then Peter goes up in flames. So it was, you know, lighter fluid or paint thinner. and our yeah
01:16:39
Speaker
ah It cuts and Annie is in the bathroom and it just says she's like saying something. It's probably the seance and She goes to wake up Peter Because that was all a dream and she's like literally two inches from his face if anybody wakes me up like two inches from my face like that You're getting punched Yeah, sure do not and and she just like tell them how much she loves me apologize for everything ah she wakes up Steve and she brings them to the dining room and They get down there and the windows open and Steve wants to close the window and she's like don't fucking touch it, dude ah and she She explains what she wants to do and Steve does not fucking buy it And this is wanting to get your take since any
01:17:28
Speaker
claims here that she's a medium and she was seeing apparitions earlier and shrugged them off yeah she got arrogant at a fucking nowhere like she's she's worried about her dead daughter but now she's like yeah i'm gifted uh and i should be practicing this like that was weird but what apparitions is she seeing her mom right remember in the office earlier oh that one scene in the movie yeah i don't know and then she sees uh
01:18:00
Speaker
Oh has actually did she see the blue light that goes around or did was that just I Think the blue light was only yeah um Peter and Peter and Charlie I think saw it. Okay, so maybe she didn't see it Steve for sure didn't fucking see it. Yeah, no, no See I took this more as like she's just losing her mind not that she like, you know Think she has some gift. Yes. I I think she's also losing her mind. I I just think if she is losing her mind and seeing operations as a part of it, she but they should have made that more clear. In my opinion, I think they want it to be subtle, but I don't know. I think that's like a pompous movie thing to like purposely leave details out. So you could you have to piece the movie together yourself to choose your own adventure. hey Yeah.
01:18:55
Speaker
except for the under the red hood uh alternate ending bullshit they made for batman fuck that shit we sucks ass fucking so mad they did that a waste of 27 dollars fucking pissed fuck you target uh actually i can't say that why You think
Seance with Steve and Possession
01:19:14
Speaker
they're listening? Fuck you, Target. So she's like begging Steve to stay and do this with her. ah They all are like holding hands, and they concentrate about Charlie. And Andy starts calling for Charlie and asks her to move the glass. At this point, they put all their hands like on the glass.
01:19:32
Speaker
and peter's like you don't feel the air flexing the fuck does air flexing mean air like a stoner trying to describe a fucking seance i feel the air moving around you don't feel the air flexing and there's like dollar bills flying around the air bro the air is swole um the the glass shoots the other side of the table uh so annie pulls the ah Charlie's like drawing book out and opens it up for her draw and Steve's like not fuck this shit, dude. We're not doing this her joining book ah And She shows Steve drawings in the book and she said that she watched Charlie draw these and
01:20:22
Speaker
And Peter's crying because he's a bitch. That's the point. And there are, he you know, Annie and Steve are arguing and a plate shatters something and China cabinet like shatters. Right. And a flame shoots out of a candle and Steve checks under the table like any did earlier.
01:20:48
Speaker
Uh, and I'm pretty sure Annie got possessed at this point. Yeah. Yeah. She definitely like leans back, breathes in. She's like growling. The subtitle said growling. So that's the word I'm using. Hey, yo, do you see that video? you see that video Oh, this is crazy.
01:21:08
Speaker
Um, and you hear a girl calling out, but it's coming through Annie's mouth. charlie Charlie right. Oh, sorry you were gonna say that my bad. No, it's fine. It do was Charlie and Peter's like let's let's fucking stop this shit and Annie's freaking out. It's like the two of them are like colliding into like one consciousness essentially And Steve just like throw some water on her face and she's like what the fuck was that for? Yeah, bitch. You were freaking them. You were tweaking Yeah
01:21:43
Speaker
ah And it cuts to her model of their house. And then we see the same wall that always has stuff ah you know inscribed on it. And this time it says,
01:21:55
Speaker
Lift Toach Pandemonium, which I googled and they did completely make this happen for this movie only. Lift Toach is a Hebrew word I'm pretty sure that means open up. And the whole saying means open up chaos or hell, which is what's gonna happen. It's the whole third act. We cut to Peter who's in class not paying attention. And this is where he sees that a light zoom around the classroom.
Peter's Disturbing Experiences
01:22:23
Speaker
Uh, and he follows it like into a cabinet. I guess it's like a science class, something that has stuff in like glass cabinets and he sees himself smirking in the reflection. And then he hears one of those, uh, and he like jumps up and the two is like, yeah. And he's like, oh, I'm just gonna go to the bathroom.
01:22:45
Speaker
played it off cool, Peter. Hell yeah, Peter. but I got diarrhea.
01:22:54
Speaker
And he gets a phone call from Steve and Steve's like, guess who just called me? And she's and and he's like, Charlie. And he's like, what? What the fuck? Yeah. What? And he's like, no, Peter called crying from the hallway in school saying he's being threatened by a vengeful spirit.
01:23:14
Speaker
and Annie asks why, and then they start to bicker, and the phone line hangs up, and Annie's like, what the fuck? And she calls back and leaves him a voicemail saying, don't hang up me, and I'm not sleepwalking anymore, by the way, in case you were wondering.
01:23:29
Speaker
Uh, she goes back to, you know, tinkering with this model and the phone rings again and she lets it go to voicemail and it's Patrick from the art gallery, you know, checking in with her being a human. Uh, and he's like, you know, what's going on? Hope you're doing okay. We can postpone the show. Don't worry about it.
01:23:48
Speaker
And as she's listening to this voicemail, she's like working on like a chair and she smashes this little tiny chair and then goes on and like destroys every single one of her models. Well, not every single, we'll get to that. So Steve and Peter get home and Steve comes upstairs and finds Annie destroyed everything. He also mentioned it smells. There's smell.
01:24:13
Speaker
Oh, oh, my ass in here. ah So when they show this from much of you guys caught this or not, every model is destroyed besides the one that had Charlie's death. That one's like left, like almost not center from like off to the left a little bit, but like completely untouched. But they're all smashed.
01:24:36
Speaker
Um, we cut to Steve who's popping pills. Uh, and then Annie hears some, the subtitles that's scribbling. Uh, and she's walking through the house and she finds, uh, the notebook being opened and drawn in, in Charlie's room and the pages are turning. Uh, and then we cut to Peter who's asleep and he hears the, and he sees Charlie in a corner of his room.
01:25:06
Speaker
And she, like, kicks a ball towards his bed. And we hear a dog growling at the doorway, which the dog who was introduced at the beginning of the film. I don't have his name. I'm sorry. ah And then all of a sudden, hands come out from under his bed and, like, grab him by the, like, the throat. Or, like, his chin, like, pulling him under. And he, like, he's freaking the fuck out.
01:25:26
Speaker
ah The door slams and You hear the cameras not on it's like on Steve and and you hear any running to the bedroom And when Steve comes at it like the hands, you know dissipate and he comes out of it And he's just like standing in his rooms
Annie's Actions: Mental Health or Supernatural?
01:25:43
Speaker
like what the fuck are you doing in here? Why are you grabbing my face like that? You mean Peter Yes, who'd I say Steve? Yeah. Yeah, I was confused. I was like wait Steve they showed even that It's Peter, but no. So when that, what I meant to say basically is like when the hands grab him, it cuts to Steve, not Peter. yeah And you hear Annie run, like you hear another part of the house running, but then it cuts back to Peter. He comes out of it and yeah, what you guys said. Uh, so or Annie tells.
01:26:20
Speaker
Annie tells Peter, this supports your theory more and more, Tyler. ah he She tells Peter that there's something going on for sure, and she's the only one who can stop it. So I don't know if she discovered it throughout the length of this film, or like you said, she knew ahead of time. Well, also an important part here. ah When Peter wakes up, he goes, why were you choking me? And she goes, what? I wasn't choking you. That oh wasn't me. so Right, which is what I said. But you guys were like, well, it's not Steve. It's Peter.
01:26:50
Speaker
i know you ran over I didn't hear you say anything about ah him I don't know maybe maybe the names threw me off but yeah she ah so and she was saying she's not sleepwalking anymore so I could have been I don't know there do you think do you think she was under the bed i yeah I have like two separate theories for this movie. cheryl face just like fuck I have like two separate theories for this movie and that supports one of them, but there's it's there's loose ends on both. Yeah, we'll we'll get into that for sure. And then it cuts back to Charlie's drawing book and there's drawings of, we come to find out it's Peter ah with his eyes axed out.
01:27:39
Speaker
So Annie goes to burn Charlie's notebook. And when she throws it in the fire, she also catches on fire. So she has to pull the book out of the fire and like stomp out the fire to like not be on fire anymore. Then the next day, this is like next level. Annie goes to see Joan and she's banging on this door. I need to talk to you right now.
01:28:02
Speaker
and it pans from the door all the way down Jones hallway to like her dining room table where we find the triangle again ah and it has Peter's picture inside and then outside of the triangle there's like branches and those animal heads that I guess Charlie was collecting because her toys are also there right uh we cut to peter who's sitting outside alone and he hears someone yelling peter uh and it's jone this is for sure jone uh and she yells i expel you the word satiny again and then she yelled a paragon which a paragon is not a word but paragon
01:28:46
Speaker
means like you'd be like if you're a paragon like you're the perfect thing of it most like if I called your cock paragon it's the best cock ah okay okay okay yeah you wouldn't be wrong see cock metaphor there we go ah fuck with cock my cock is not is the opposite of paragon it's really small so she's yelling to him and he's looking around nobody else sees or hears the shit that she's yelling to him right Uh, and we come back to Annie who's flipping through books of, you know, through her mother's stuff. And she finds a book on invocations. Uh, why did it auto correct? His name is King Paimon, right?
01:29:32
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. My thing autocook to just King Payne. That's cool. P-A-I-M-O-N.
King Paimon's Possession Theories
01:29:38
Speaker
Uh, he's a God of Mischief and the book says, uh, pay my will, possess the most vulnerable host. Uh, when the rituals complete, he's locked to his new host. And he will, once he's locked, uh, you need to perform a new ritual to, uh, move him to a different host. Uh, and because he's a male, he covets, uh, male bodies to possess.
01:30:02
Speaker
ah Jones looking in photo a Joan Annie's looking in photo albums of her mother and all of a sudden there's Joan Which so this is where the loose ends is again if she knew And her mother had these photo albums how come how do you not know that your mother was friends with Joan? Well, I don't think she knew everything I just think she kind of knew her mom was in like some sort of cult she might not know every member and
01:30:32
Speaker
That's possible, but I mean, Joan was in a lot of pictures. That's true. That's true. Like, I've looked through my parents' photo album before. Although you're you don't you've never run into people who are like, oh, hey, I'm your parents' friend. And you're like, oh, yeah, I don't i don't recognize you, but I believe you, I guess. Yeah, I remember when you were a baby. Yeah, yeah.
01:30:55
Speaker
i agree I agree with that. A hundred percent. I've had those experience in one thousand percent. But the actress they use to portray Ellen is old as fuck in all the pictures. So it it seems like it's recent. Only because they didn't yet ask the younger life. You're right. youre You're right. Yeah, I get it. Anyways. Uh.
01:31:23
Speaker
Then we cut to... So she realizes this fucking gentleman's been in her mom's life for a while. Which is also kind of like a crazy reveal. I want to just give the movie props for that. That it's like, oh fuck, like she's she's been played completely. You got scammed. Yeah.
01:31:42
Speaker
uh peter is walking to the hallway and sees that light john thing go by and uh then he sees that i don't get the point of this fucking part he sees a man at the end of the hallway like through a door he like points and like calls him toward him like gestures from him to come over to him and then it cuts to steve writing an email and i'm pretty sure before the email pops up about the damages to ellen's grave he was right as someone that he was having or in the middle of a like manic episode
01:32:18
Speaker
um And you we see Ellen's gravesite and she's been Unburied essentially, and I'm gonna shout it out again. I'll shut up kipsy tapes Yep, and Annie is We cut to Annie was walking around with the album and she opens the attic and all these bugs fly out and the smell hits cuz you're getting closer and she finds a dead body in the attic and ah And the logo from her mother's necklace and on the telephone pole is on the inside of roof and blood ah We come back to peer who's in class and there's a bunch of those noises going on And this is when he fuck it. This is when it gets fucking nuts He you see him raise his hand from like behind him then it cuts to his face and his eyes all like bulged out and
01:33:11
Speaker
And his like jaws like not dislocated but not the way it's supposed to be um And then he smacks his face against the desk twice this was like a super shock value like talked about a lot seen That I had heard about before I saw the movie ah Yeah, how much you want bet Long Lake stole it from this? Um sure it's possible It's definitely the same. It's in the same vein Good. Well cuz talk to me did it too. I Talk to me did it. I think talk to me is the most disturbing version of it. Yeah. Out of the three. I agree with that. Yeah. Ty, have you seen Talk to Me? I have not. Oh, okay. Well, you're off the podcast. yeah
01:33:54
Speaker
ah yeah It's a good movie to watch it. I actually only have it rated three stars, which is kind of a hot take. Pretty hot. um You're hot. so Thank you. he This was actually unsettling. When he snaps out of it, he's like sitting on the floor screaming, and it like zooms out, and the entire class is like not in one corner, but like on the opposite side of the classroom. ah School calls the house, but Annie's outside by the treehouse, and it's like storming. They call Steve at work, who I think is drinking on the job.
01:34:31
Speaker
but um And then it just cuts to Peter passed down the back seat of Steve's car has a nose brace thing on And Peter's like looking at him through or Steve's looking at Peter through the rear view and almost runs a red light And he stops and then he Steve kind of like actually shows emotion here and like a and you see the light turn green the cars not moving because he's fucking bawling his eyes out um Car pulls in the POV here is like you're the driver and you see Annie run out and she notices that peers all fucked up and Steve tells any that you know peer did it to himself and
01:35:13
Speaker
And immediately they move off of that. And she's like, well, guess what? There's a dead body in the attic. You should go see it. I think it's my mom. But I'm not sure because she has no head. And Steve's like, you're fucking crazy, bitch. Yeah, this is where he just fucking cuts it off. He's done with her shit. He's like, yeah. So Steve opens the attic. And I actually really thought, even my third watch, that he'd open, there wouldn't be anything there. Me too. But he does open it. Yeah, on my second watch, I thought that.
01:35:44
Speaker
But he does open it and bugs do come out. And he goes up there and he does, you ah you see Annie run down to like the fireplace and grab an album and you hear Steve scream. And then he comes down and and he's like, oh, so you want to see this full album of ah Joan with Ellen? And he's like, you fucking dug the grave up and put her in there, didn't you? And she's like, what the fuck are you talking about? And he's like,
01:36:09
Speaker
When you said you were going to the movies, you were just going to dig up your mom's grave. And she's like, I have no idea what you're talking about. And he's like, yeah, I didn't tell you about it. ah But she has no idea. And then she this is where she points out that the the pictures that were drawn in Charlie's notebook are of Peter, as I said before. And she begs Steve to burn Charlie's book. ah And Steve doesn't want to do it. And she begs her. this The begging goes on for a good five minutes.
01:36:38
Speaker
and he Like just fucking throw it in there Steve like it like really takes nothing away from you to do this for her Right ah and it looks like he's about to do it. and He's like, you know what? I'm sick of your shit. I'm not fucking doing it So she takes it out of his hand and she throws it in the fire and Steve lights on fire. Yeah that that part far I was just like a day I mean he's fucking charred Yeah ah Don't say it We cut to nighttime and Peter wakes up ah Because he's been out cold from smashing his face and he sees an orangish glow in the treehouse ah He calls for his parents and he's no one's answering He looks out the window and you see like over his shoulder a figure like run across the stream which I'll be honest my third watch is the first time I've noticed the figure running behind him and
01:37:30
Speaker
I think I noticed it on the first one now that you bring it up, but the second one I definitely did not notice it I'm oh I was gonna say you're better than me, but I guess you're not no yeah Yeah,
01:37:44
Speaker
yeah it's very very quick um So he walks downstairs And it's all spooky. There's like noises and he's like calling It is a large bang and you I didn't hear but the subtitles said like you hear flies. I didn't hear any flies He sees the entire house is in disarray and he finds his dad's fucking charred body This is our iconic moment in the movie where he's looking at the body and Annie's like perched in the corner of the ceiling um Then he sees a naked man in the doorway, which I imagine is a member of like the congregation of this cult. Yeah small dick Yeah, yeah all these all these ah members small dicks.
Cult Rituals and Supernatural Theories
01:38:29
Speaker
Yes
01:38:31
Speaker
Here's a thud and Annie's gone and he starts to run and Annie comes out of the corner where this Congregation member was and she chases him through the house ah Peter locks himself in the attic and I'm not sure how I don't remember this part where she's like literally it like on the ceiling Smashing her head against the attic th door. Yeah, it was fucking crazy dude certified freak. Hell. Yeah, I Spider-Man has ho. Ho.
01:38:59
Speaker
ah And the banging stops, and he sees all these candles set up where the dead body was, Ellen. And his pictures there were the eyes like scratched out. And then he starts smacking himself. He's like, you just got to wake up. And then he hears, it sounded like chewing to me before I knew what it was. And he looks up, and Annie is floating.
01:39:25
Speaker
Cutting her own head off. And then he looks down and there's a bunch of the naked members of this congregation in the corner and he just runs and jumps out the window into this garden. ah And we watch the that light we we keep seeing go into him. When he comes to it, ah he sees Andy floating up into the tree house and they get one of those little. And as he walks towards the tree house, there's naked people watching him.
01:39:55
Speaker
The dog's dead. I don't know if you guys caught that. There's a dead dog in the background. Oh, I didn't. Ripped dog. Ripped dog. Gerald hates that shit. Yeah, he didn't do anything. He- Fucking exactly, dude. He gets up to the treehouse and there's a bunch of naked people we saw before bowing. And he looks to the other side of the room and there's a model of King Paimon. And the two people in the front closest to King Paimon are Annie's,
01:40:25
Speaker
Annie and her mom, both bodies with decapitated heads. ah Then you hear Joan's voice. You don't see her, but you hear her voice. And Peter is crowned as King Paimon, one of the eight kings of hell. um And she does mention here that they corrected the first female body and gave him King Paimon, Peter's body. And then you hear the congregation chant, hell,
01:40:55
Speaker
King payment. ah It zooms out like it's a one of those models. And then the music ends with some really like cool music. Yeah, that's the best song of the movie. It is. ah Tyler, let's hear your theory now that all all has been revealed. So there's I have two theories. The one that I think is like popular ah is, you know, that ah obviously king payman or whatever uh ghosts otherworldly spirits there are out in the world are driving the whole movie so like she keeps beheading stuff because she wants to lose her head that's how the host has to like
01:41:38
Speaker
give up their body. But and he's like possessing the daughter because it was in the wrong they say at the end of the movie he was in the wrong body. But why does she also have like her own free will at some points like she didn't want to go to the party. She didn't want to eat the cake at one point. That was like a part that I didn't really understand. so um But my main one is they talk about mental health a lot in the movie and I think it is Uh, they are suffering from like schizophrenia and, uh, paranoid schizophrenia and like bipolar disorder. And they, we're seeing it from their perspectives and not an outside person's perspective, which, uh,
01:42:25
Speaker
like she keeps covering she keeps talking about how she wakes up from sleepwalking and everybody's covered in paint thinner and of course the only normal person in the movie steve gets burned alive so i think she was sleepwalking covered him in paint thinner and then lit him on fire but it the whole all the cultists don't make sense if that's the only thing That doesn't make sense for me if it is about mental health. They're all like breaking down. ah The cultists make no sense to me. And that's the only loose end for me on that one. but So is the other theory that it's supernatural or no? Yeah. And i mean obviously obviously, that's not even really a theory. But it's just I had more stuff about that. It's like the demon gets passed down because you know it's called hereditary. So the demon gets passed down generations, King Paimon.
01:43:15
Speaker
ah And the the father, I think in in the obituary at the very start of the movie, I believe it says the father, the grandfather died. And I think they said that the father died as soon as Charles was born. Charles was Annie's brother. So like yeah the new host, gets the host gets like a new body and then they named the daughter Charlie and they, they were like, oh, Charlie, that's like Charles, it's going to be a boy. So they put the.
01:43:46
Speaker
they put payment in Charlie and then they're like fuck it's a girl we fucked up we got to kill the girl we got to put it in a boy now pause but oh man the pause and a half holy shit Uh, but I, I don't know. I don't like that either. Cause Charlie seems to have her own free will, but it's also saying like King payment is, and also, uh, so the clicks that keep happening, if Charlie's not Charlie, it's King payment. It's to, they said they need a vulnerable host. So it's for everybody to start going crazy. Cause they're like, Oh fuck, Charlie. Like I hear Charlie and they're like, their mental state is breaking down so they could like invade them.
01:44:27
Speaker
Because at the end, the Peter is like completely losing it, and they're able to infect his body. yeah I think Peter is the most vulnerable from the beginning of the movie. Exactly. That's my problem. again If that is the case, why didn't the cultists just kidnap both of them, torture Peter? He's going to be pretty weak emotionally, and then behead Uh, Charlie, and if it needs a living host, I feel like Annie would have died while cutting her own head off. So why was she able to continue doing stuff? Which would, I don't know. It's what did she continue doing after she cut her head off when she's in the attic. She's like chopping her head off, but like the wires like completely through her head. There's no way she would continue doing that. Yeah, i mean i they show that they can't control a dead body because once
01:45:19
Speaker
That's not a hallucination, though. I mean, that's some kind of supernatural effect. Yeah, I don't think that's super. I don't think that's a delusion. Because if it's all a delusion, you're saying that Annie just killed her. The whole movie is about Annie killing her husband. No, Peter, Annie. I don't really know about Charlie. It's kind of hard to tell, but they all suffer from.
01:45:42
Speaker
mental illness. So that's why the end. Oh, another loose end. We don't actually see what Peter react. Peter, the father reacts to when the glass moves because that's the only thing where it could be like maybe it's not in their head if Peter sees the glass move when they're channeling Charlie but he doesn't bring that up for the rest of the movie and he seems like she's going crazy so he the the glass might not have moved and the China breaking shit the fucking window when did when did the glass not move when when they did the seance in their living room Peter and you're saying Peter I got their names mixed up Steve oh yeah oh yeah name what you did
01:46:22
Speaker
Damnit so Steve if he didn't see the glass move Then I think my theory holds up if he did see the glass move and no one moved it Do you you don't think Steve saw a glass move when they were in the kitchen?
01:46:37
Speaker
He never addresses it. He's just clearly freaked out that she's going crazy. But he saw it. with I mean, that there's no way he didn't see the shot. The shot is of the glass going backwards and you see all the filming behind them looking at it. and He definitely saw the glass move. She could have pushed it. I got to rewatch the scene. I'll rewatch the scene, but it also is from the perspective of the person. If she mental break, if she pushed it, why wasn't Steve like you fucking pushed it? Why does Steve look under the table?
01:47:09
Speaker
That's a good point it was the same table though. It was the same table, so it could be like a trick But I don't know that's that was the same table. They did their seance at Jones house Yeah, but it it had like the same bottom because I remember when they did it at Jones house And they looked under there was like a thick Piece of wood on the underside of the table, and I was like how does she even know Pause like there's not only anything under there.
Skepticism and Seance Interpretations
01:47:31
Speaker
It's not like you can see like an empty table It's like there's clearly a hollow part, but I Uh, and I, they, uh, but it might just be like a filming thing where they use a similar table and it's not actually the same table. Uh, I'm not gonna, uh, but after seeing on the architecture of a table, why would Steve then not believe it?
01:47:53
Speaker
Like why would, why, if Steve saw the glass move on its own, why would Steve not then be like, this is crazy. We need to stop. He's kind of just like, you're being crazy. You dug up your mom.
01:48:09
Speaker
I hear you on that, but I also don't think he goes out of his way to deny it. Right, right. Yeah, there's not it's it's not a closed theory. It's definitely like there. It's a game theory. um My my interpretation of this, honestly, is ah yes, King Pinn was in somebody else's body. It was probably I'm thinking it was in Charlie's. Yeah. I think when the family went to summon Charlie spirit, they encountered
01:48:48
Speaker
another demon. I think there's a second one. Because if payment spirit is in ah Charlie, right? Right. Right. And then now he's targeting, what's his name? Fuckface. Peter. Peter. um there's no way he's in There's no way he's in fucking Annie.
01:49:17
Speaker
Yeah, so this is something I thought was cool about the movie, and I didn't know when to bring it up. Because that's literally insidious. They were trying to summon their ah fucking spirit, and then they bring back the wrong one. So you know how um the lady was like, make sure everybody's in the house with you? Yeah. When they... So Peter... Oh, fuck. I get the names mixed up. Steve it gets the call very early in the movie that the that the grave had been desecrated.
01:49:43
Speaker
ah And after that is when they have the seance. so Yeah, way way, way, way after that, yeah. Ellen, that's her name, right? The grandmother? The matriarch, yeah. Her body is in the house when they do the seance. So she may have inhabited, isn't the right word, possessed. She may have possessed Annie. So Annie may be possessed by Ellen.
01:50:09
Speaker
yeah might That might actually the other demon could just be Ellen. That's a very good point. Mm hmm. I just said another team, but it could have been Ellen for sure. Also, I could have been possessing her mom or Annie because they they didn't get along anyways. Right. But also the whole point is like her mom was definitely we know her mom was in a ah satanic cult and they were trying to summon one of the eight kings of hell. And this one happened to be King Paimon for sure. It's actual information.
01:50:38
Speaker
If they put him in Charlie, as because as Annie says earlier in the film, you know I gave Annie to her, or I gave her Annie, or I gave her fucking names. Charlie, yeah. I gave her Charlie. I actually said that at the AA meeting. AA! Yeah, that's my my take on it. I think you and I are like a mixture of the two. Yeah, it's dad that's definitely like the main baseline thing, but I could see it being. ah I'm trying to give this movie more credit maybe than it deserves. If if that the whole thing is like, you know, it's King payment. I give this movie. Oh, well, we'll talk. Do we talk about ratings? I don't know. i'm I'm messing up your whole flow. You guys have a good flow and I'm ruining it. We can go. No, you're not. We can give ratings now and continue to talk with the film. It's not the biggest two in the world. Right. ah But
01:51:38
Speaker
I agree with you that there's holes, but also I think that's the whole, I think every Ari film is just like up for interpretation. Right. And that might've been the point. To a certain point, I think that's lazy directing, but sometimes if it's done really well, I think that's like really good directing. Sure. and i believe him and i mean There's too many loose ends on both kind of theories I have where like some stuff doesn't add up and I, I,
01:52:06
Speaker
It which gives makes me I think if this is about and a literal demon possessing someone, I give this movie a three. But if it is like a a take on mental health and the hereditary is mental health illness being passed down, that's what's hereditary about it. Then I give this movie a four. But I feel like that's exactly what it is, in my opinion.
01:52:36
Speaker
what the payment or the so I feel like yeah in the movie it's payment but the overall like what they're trying to like the message that they're trying to get across is the mental health as oh yeah I like that so canonically it's King payment but the parallel in real life is to mental health. Yeah, i yeah, I actually I really like that. Well, you didn't already. I thought you already thought that I was saying that that was the canonically it was supposed to be King payment does not exist. And this is all just hallucination, paranoid schizophrenia by Peter and Annie. But ah it could be canonically, this is whatever, but it's supposed to parallel mental health.
01:53:37
Speaker
I think that's what it is. Like right on the nail on the head type shit. Yeah. I like that. Gerald. I only, I only like this movie. If it's, if you, uh, concede the supernatural elements of it and you don't chalk it up to mental health. Chris, to me, that doesn't, it doesn't work. but The thematic elements of it being about mental health. Yes. A hundred percent. I'm i'm there with you, but it's not.
01:54:07
Speaker
What happened to this fucking movie is not someone just seeing shit. I agree. I agree with that 100%. It's from the point of view of the paranoid schizophrenic. It's not from the point of view of a regular person who would be like... Whose point of view is it from then, Tyler? Huh? Whose point of view is it from? Annie's. Annie and Peter's. So we're seeing things how they see it.
01:54:31
Speaker
But we're not seeing things how Steve sees it and Steve is like what Steve finds the dead body and the flies in the attic. She stole the dead body. She stole the dead body and moved it up there in a in a in a. Fuck, what's the word called? Like a trip, a ah trip to the movie. It's not a trip to the movies in like ah and look she's safe she's going a mental breakdown. She went and stole because she sleepwalks. They why would they bring up the sleepwalking if it's not actually
01:55:04
Speaker
like the this No, I mean, she does 100% sleepwalk. But I mean, you can't tell me that the sleepwalking, when that she was under the bed, pulling on his face.
01:55:18
Speaker
Did she sleepwalk and do that? that's how she's That's how it's interpreted for them. But if we had a camera in there, we might Annie might have walked over and started choking him in her sleep. Well, like paranormal activity? Kind of. I don't know. Because becausez when he wakes up, he's so convinced it was her. But is it sleepwalking or is it demonic possession? So then you are saying that she choked him? No, I'm not. No, no. If it was demonic possession, oh, you're saying demonic. OK, I get what you're saying then.
01:55:49
Speaker
i'm saying I'm saying her sleepwalking in general could be demonic possession. Maybe. Because when she lights when she lights Steve on fire, well, she doesn't light Steve on fire. But she i mean well your' in your theory, she could have. Her face goes from shocked to just like, duh. She is dead inside. Mm-hmm.
01:56:12
Speaker
ah i I strongly feel like it's a, it's definitely can be a metaphor for mental health, but I don't think what the actions in the movie are, are, are like, Oh, this is someone's schizophrenia acting out. This is no, this is like demons and, and Satan Colton is like summoning a demon and like ruining this family's life to me, just to me. I agree with Nick.
01:56:43
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I definitely think that's like the more obvious theory. I was just trying to dig deep for something. ah And who knows? I mean, you know, no, like I said, the thematic elements work. I just don't think that I don't think that it physically happened like that. I think there was you think it was. Yeah, it was like straightforward. King payment was taking. I mean, with Ari Aster, nothing straightforward, but sure I'm sure there's more layers and I'm just an idiot. And there's probably ah Validity to what you're saying and there's probably really good articles on reddit about That about what actually happened, but I've watched this film three times and that's just kind of where I'm at with it ah So you said a three or a four or three and a half No, I think I give it a three that I don't know. It's tough because I don't like the plot Okay
01:57:36
Speaker
I like I I I've heard people say before ah when I've said I don't like the plot people have told me you just don't get the movie which is a crazy thing to say that is that's pompous and arrogant to say yeah but I love the score I love the cinematography but I think it three is fair so it's like is it too like a horrible rating or is it too like you know like it's it's like of your top two is below ever did you listen to our alien Romulus episode I did If you feel like that, the way we felt about Alien Romulus, it's a two. We both gave that movie a two. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Then I would say, if you have that many issues with it, alien Romulan is like an action thriller. It's not trying to have the enormous garbage. and Yeah. It's, it's supposed to be jump scares and an alien hereditary is trying to be like an impressive movie. ger where Yeah.
01:58:37
Speaker
So, given all the hype and everything about this movie, because since it was my first watch, yeah I was really expecting more stuff in the beginning. Yeah. Because it's like two hours. When you say more stuff, what does that mean?
01:59:03
Speaker
Like I just found, I know, you know, movies take a while to get going, slow burn but yeah, but all Ari Aster movies are, I mean, the two that I've seen now. No, the third one is no different. What's the third one? Oh, is that the one with Joaquin Phoenix? Yeah. I'm giving it a three and a half. Wow. Okay. Um, so you're expecting to see more and then it turned it around by the end for you or cause that sounded like you're bringing it a two and a half.
01:59:34
Speaker
Yeah, as I was watching it, I was like, damn, like this shit's hyped up for like what reason? But you're still at a three and a half? Yes, because like the last like quarter. Yeah, the third act. Oh, yeah. Pretty much carries this entire movie. yeah I, okay. I find the, oh, I think maybe in the middle it gets a little muddy, but I think the beginning of the film is interesting. Uh, so it's start it, it's slow until Charlie dies. I don't think so. And then I don't feel that way, but you don't think no but go ahead. I'm on your side, Gerald. Yeah. So it's slow up until Charlie dies and then.
02:00:22
Speaker
The grieving process is kind of, okay. I take that back. It's, it's a steady growth. I'll give you that. Yeah, it's fine. you Hey, you're entitled to your opinion. i I mean, I'm not, I'm not going to say it's, it's not slow. It's a hundred percent of slow burn film. I think it's just, uh, maybe a better word to use than slower fast as engagement with it.
02:00:43
Speaker
Like, you're not, up until Charlie dies, you're not as engaged with the film. I'm not really engaged. Right. OK. That's correct. And that's fair. That's 100% fair. i'm a So i've my third watch, the first two times, it was three and a half. And I was like, movie's good. ah But I can't tell you for sure. My second watch, I was like, damn, this movie's fucking boring.
02:01:04
Speaker
um This watch I don't know the i I just find the if I look at through the lens that I'm choosing to look at it through of like the satanic cult And her mom's like fucking crazy background It just worked for me, I don't know if you're supposed to get it It's nice to try to dig for those answers, ah but I ended up with a four on this four out of five Four. Yeah. i So first two rings were a three and a half, and this watch for me went to a four. Gerald, I'm guessing you like Midsummer over this movie. I do. I haven't seen Midsummer in a minute, so I'm not sure. But according to my letterbox reading, I'd have hereditary hire.
02:01:51
Speaker
I've also watched Shreditary three times in three years. Because you hated Midsummer, right? When I first watched it. When I first watched it, I didn't like it. But I've come all the way around. I own it. I've come around on it. Talia, have you seen it? No, I saw it. Is that the other? Hey, man, get off the podcast. Is that the other Ari Aster movie? So there's three big ones. There's that one. And the last one is Bo is Afraid. OK. With Joaquin, he thinks that came out, I believe, last year, the year before.
Ari Aster's 'Bo is Afraid' Genre Debate
02:02:17
Speaker
That's so funny, actually.
02:02:19
Speaker
It's both a phrase long and so its um that's a long one too. There's an extended. Yeah. Damn. Um, I don't want to say that they, the endings of Midsummer and this movie are very, similar they are a hundred very, very similar. a hundred percent And by very similar, Tyler, I mean, damn near.
02:02:38
Speaker
Oh, wow. OK. I mean, all that's missing is fire. Right. ah So Bo is afraid. I loved the opening 30 minutes to an hour of the movie. I thought it was really well done and I was really engaged. And then it just tanked. And I think I ended up somewhere around a two star for that movie. Maybe a star and a half. I didn't like it. But it's that's, and you know, as all of Ari's films are, it's divisive and people either love that movie or hate it. And I'm just on the other side of it. What's the genre?
02:03:10
Speaker
Thriller peekaboo. No, it's it's not horror. Peekaboo Rock. um I mean, I could be forgetting some things, but there's not there's a little bit of like blood, but it's not drama. Sure. I mean, let's see what letterbox is not a good app to use for genre. Neither is straight up Google, but.
02:03:32
Speaker
It says horror comedy. Really, is it funny? I didn't find it funny. Oh, I forgot about the, oh my god, yeah, it is comedy. What the fuck is this thing? Yep, yep, yep, yeah, you gotta watch it. Is that a penis? Yeah, it is, it's a big dick with a mouth. We just spoiled Bose for eight, hopefully you guys didn't hear that. All right, so, Tyler out of three. Gerald, three and a half, I'm out of four. We hope you enjoyed our review of Hereditary to kick off our horror month.
02:04:09
Speaker
Again, you're getting two ah dose episodes a week. um So this coming Friday, we will be reviewing Reanimator, which is hype. It's Gerald's first scene by scene. Ooh. Yeah, get ready. If I suck, just let me know. Don't, you know, be honest. No, positive vibes.
02:04:38
Speaker
Uh, constructive criticism reanimator is your all time favorite horror movie, right? All time. Uh, I also still very much a enjoy that movie. So you'd look forward to that. Um, you want to do another little pluggie? Sure. Follow us on Instagram, two guys, one screen pod, send any comments, concerns, requests. Uh, if you want to be a guest, shoot us an email at
02:05:08
Speaker
twoguysonescreenpodatgmail.com, and then follow us on Letterboxd, our links are in the description. But write like a proper thesis paper why we should pick you to be a guest. Sure. I'm just kidding. No chat GPT why I should be on your podcast, Jake. No, he's already scheduled anyways. um I had to fill out a 16 page essay. That's a lie in slander. ah Tyler, do you want to plug anything?
02:05:31
Speaker
ah Yeah, ah listen to two guys, one screen podcast. ah they're They're pretty bad, but you know I know them. No, I'm kidding. i love Honestly, of all the podcasts I've been a part of, ah this podcast is definitely the best one. I could tell that i like i know you guys. This is definitely like your thing, talking about movies, especially horror movies. this is like you guys is like I think I reached out to you last Halloween about like what the best Halloween movies to watch are, so I can't think of a better
02:06:07
Speaker
group of two people to start a podcast on a specific subject. And honest it's I love listening to these podcasts because you guys clearly are in your element and it's very fun to listen to.
02:06:21
Speaker
we appreciate We appreciate that. yeah Also, we've been trying to convince our audience that we're not ah just a horror movie podcast. Oh, fuck. We keep proving them. We keep proving them wrong. You shouldn't hear a bit. It was scary, man. ah there Yeah, it's a pretty wicked jump scare there. By the way, the episode's cooking. Tyler, thank you again for joining us. We'll have you back, for sure. Yeah. As Gerald said, write in. Let us know. Hey, our horror movies are picked for this month.
02:06:49
Speaker
ah But there's always next year and all the weeks in between let us know what movie should go into the horror bracket while horror movies you want to hear reviewed what movies you want to hear reviewed and We will see you Friday for a little boner alert Bonus episode peace toodles fuck you mark