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Delving into THE MANDALORIAN Chapter 19 | 025
19 Plays17 days ago
Join Branwen and Seah as they deep dive into all things Star Wars. Follow along as we fly off exploring all the wonders and geekery of a Galaxy Far, Far Away, chatting nostalgia, worlds, lore, sound, music, story, behind the scenes, and much more with each other and some very special guests.
This season, we're on a rewatch of The Mandalorian and The Book of Boba Fett in the run-up to the release of "The Mandalorian and Grogu" in cinemas in May.
In our twenty-fifth episode we're continuing through The Mandalorian Season 3, with Chapter 19 "The Convert". We talk about themes, performances, story details, TIE Interceptors, 'odd-one-out' episodes, diabolical politicians, metaphorical biscuits, psych evaluations, and much more. Watch out for our "West End Geek Girls" segment, which now has a little theme tune!
Sisters of the Force is a weekly, UK-based, Star Wars podcast, produced with joy and love by Seah and Branwen. Sisters of the Force theme by Seah and Branwen.
Follow us on Instagram @sistersoftheforcepod, Bluesky @sistersoftheforce.bsky.social, https://www.youtube.com/@SistersoftheForce, and https://www.facebook.com/sistersoftheforcepod.
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Transcript
Favorite Lines from Chapter 19
00:00:16
Speaker
Hi Sia. Hi. What's your favourite line from The Mandalorian Chapter 19? This isn't the Empire, son. to
00:00:27
Speaker
That kind of sums up the entire episode, actually. I know. It's just kind of how he says it as well. Yeah. It's all a little bit panicky. Yeah. Hi, Bramwen.
00:00:39
Speaker
Hello. What is your favourite line from The Mandalorian, Chapter 19? Good morning, L52. Happy Bendu Day. Which, for the listeners who don't know this, we're currently recording very early in the morning. yeah And I didn't plan that because when I picked that line, we were still going to be doing our usual late night recording. But as it turns out, that was ideal. That was i ideal. Great.
Introduction to 'Sisters of the Force'
00:01:05
Speaker
You're listening to bleary-eyed Sisters of the Force. Good morning. we are stop We're a Star Wars podcast where we talk about Star Wars. I'm Bramwen.
00:01:16
Speaker
I'm Sia. And today we're continuing our Mandalorian visit. yeah Yeah. With Chapter 19. We're getting close to the end of Season 3. we're not getting close to the end of Season 3. We're in the middle. Yeah. Yeah. getting closer to the end of the Mandalorian build-up, I guess is what mean. Yeah, yeah. um This is, yeah, a very unusual
Unusual Episode Structure
00:01:37
Speaker
episode. This is a wild episode. it ah generated a lot of controversy, as you can imagine. jim All right. can you Can you give me a ah brief overview of the controversy? Well, I think it was just for a similar reason, and I think this is one of the first things I wanted to talk about anyway, really. Yeah.
00:01:54
Speaker
was that it is almost like not an episode of The Mandalorian. Yeah, sure. In that The Mandalorian's not in it very much. Yeah. In in a similar way to Chapter 5 of the book of Boba Fett. Where Boba Fett's not in it. Yeah. And I had a realisation when watching this that it's like a mirror image because this is episode...
00:02:14
Speaker
three of a season yeah and boba fett was three from the end of that season so they're like mirror image from start end yeah very much the same kind of idea yeah of like let's tell another story just for a little just for a little interlude interlude thing yeah yeah and i think with that in mind based how excited i was about the return the mandalorian i'm kind of really excited about this episode too and i was at the time okay And I had the similar feelings of like, oh, are we really doing this? Yeah, yeah. To quote Poe or Finn, whichever one it was. I just love that thing of sidestepping and the fact that that emphasises that there's a bigger story at play. Yeah. That we're not just doing this little kind of like small character, small character, but, know, a few characters. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot more going on. And obviously, like, the links to...
Shocking Plot Shifts
00:03:12
Speaker
The New Republic and the sequel trilogy and all of that I thought was really interesting. yeah This is a kind of really interesting episode. Did you know before it came out that it was going to be completely different or was it a shock to everyone? It was a shock, yeah. Especially as it picks up exactly where it left off. like We do get that little kind of prologue. We're in the mines. yeah yeah And so we just thought, oh, we're going carry on following Mando and Bo-Katan as they yeah go do whatever they do next. You can have three minutes of them at the beginning and then that's it. And then all the way through the first time around, you're watching this whole light Pershing story thinking, any minute now we're going to cut back to Mando and Bo-Katan. Yeah. Any minute and now.
00:03:52
Speaker
and like I don't know what point it was, but somewhere along the way. I think when they set off on the train to go and find it you know the Star Destroyer. Yeah, yeah. was like, all right, this is just this episode. Yeah, we're not actually going back. Yeah. We do go back, though, for the yeah briefest of briefest seconds. to We do get a little bit of consolidated
Debate: Who is 'The Convert'?
00:04:12
Speaker
stuff. And I suppose at this point we should talk about the title. Like, the title is The Convert.
00:04:18
Speaker
Yeah. And there's obviously been a lot of debate about who does that refer Who is The Convert? Yeah. Is it Bo-Katan? Is it Pershing? Is it what's going on? Yeah. Is it Lyocaine Yeah, yeah. We still don't really know what her game is. What her game is.
00:04:35
Speaker
She's an enigma. Yeah. And like even with Pershing, we never really found out. And it's too late now. I don't think we'll ever find out. No. When they say convert, do we mean he's converted back to the New Republic? Was he ever part of the Empire? you know was he working under duress there?
00:04:52
Speaker
Yeah, what was happening? So many questions. Yeah. And I think that, I feel that's a theme with the Mandalorian chapter titles, generally. yes We're going to make you think it's about this thing, but actually it might be about this Could be. I mean, the whole title of the program is so, yeah like, who is the Mandalorian?
00:05:10
Speaker
what is going on, please? it Mandalorian people? as a whole Well, we get this like whole opening sequence when we do pick up where
Episode's Tonal Whiplash
00:05:20
Speaker
we left off. yeah We get the mines, we get all of this... like Well, it does feel like you're just going to go straight along with where they are, but it's whiplash quite quickly. It is, yeah. Yeah, I mean, for starters, it starts really, really quietly. And we've just literally, the last thing we saw the week before was a reveal of a mythosaur, an actual live mythosaur. And it's just like this little quiet scene by the lake as Mando wakes up. And it's like, wait, what? Like, I think, the yeah, the whiplash immediately kicks in. Yeah. And Bo-Katan's being like, eh.
00:05:56
Speaker
nothing to see here if you don't remember a thing then I'm not going to tell you about it yeah she actually asked him did you see anything down there but in such a way where we're like yeah did you did you yeah yeah yeah he's sort of like vague and and so we've seen her make a decision almost which she's done without taking her helmet off and for the rest of the episode she doesn't take her helmet off she doesn't take her helmet off and so is she yeah is she been converted to the cult I mean the children of the what No, you were right the first time I woke up.
00:06:30
Speaker
But then straight away
Sound Design Appreciation
00:06:31
Speaker
we're leaving. We're leaving Mandalore. Well, literally as we're leaving, the sound design of the gauntlet, which I don't think I've noticed it, but like there's a sound where...
00:06:41
Speaker
she kicks in the sublight drives, I guess. Like it's lifted off, which I think is where they use like repulsor lifts or thrusters or something to like get off the ground. sure And then the wings flip and it turns into sublight drive, which is what propels it until it gets into space.
00:06:57
Speaker
And it's just got this like weird bang. happens. I think it did anyway, unless it was something in my house. Yeah. I meant to re re-listen and just check. It was a long time ago now. I don't know if it was like breaking the sound barrier or something like that. just I've never heard a ship do it. It was kind of cool.
00:07:19
Speaker
ah My favourite line was nearly, get ready, we're coming in hot. Just because it's said so many times. But it was quite fun. Yeah. But we're straight in with these interceptors. Yeah, yeah.
00:07:36
Speaker
Do you know I can tell when you're going to do it now because you look at a different screen. Yeah. Oh my God, what am I doing? I have to find the button, the right button to press. I've only got one button.
00:07:47
Speaker
Incredible. This was quite a tricky one to find something in this episode. I'm sure there are things that I missed along the way, but I think I got so wrapped up in the story. Yeah, sure. But because so much of this episode takes place in Coruscant and, okay, later on,
00:08:03
Speaker
the role-playing game did add information about stuff from the prequels.
TIE Interceptor Design History
00:08:09
Speaker
But this the point where I'm focusing on the West End games bit of it, yes and by the way, listener, this is a segment called West End Geek Girls, where we look at something from the original West End games role-playing game of Star Wars and notice how that's been featured in The Mandalorian.
00:08:28
Speaker
And yeah, so it was hard to find something like original trilogy-ish where we don't really get very much of that. But realised we haven't done anything about the ties yet. I don't know if we've done anything ship-wise yet at all. Ooh, I don't know.
00:08:42
Speaker
We did repulse lifts at one point. We did do repulse lifts. I think that was, yeah, a while ago actually. What was it last week? can't tell anymore. Who knows? Time is an illusion. Time an Yeah, all the ships, I think pretty much all the ships we see got did get named by Lucasfilm around the original trilogy time. Even if they didn't get mentioned by name in the film, there were like behind the scenes um stuff yeah that came out and a few books and things. So most things did get named and the Tying Deceptor did have a name. Yeah, yeah. But I just thought it was a good example of the sort of detail that West End Games went into when defining the ships and talking about them. And I don't know if the manufacturers of the ships were mentioned by Lucasfilm at any point, but West End Games certainly set up like some ship manufacturing companies, which they kind of spread across the Rebel fleet and the Imperial fleet and some names kind of
00:09:39
Speaker
crop up here and there. So like the TIE Interceptors are made by Cynar Fleet Systems, yeah which made, i think, most of the TIEs. And I think that's still canon. Right. We've we've learned a bit more about TIE development over the years, especially through the animated series, Rebels in particular. Sure.
00:09:58
Speaker
But yeah, I love how they kind of built around them. So it says like the reason the TIE Interceptors came to be, because obviously we didn't see any in A New Hope and I don't think we saw them in Empire either. i think the first time we saw them was in Return the Jedi. So this is very much this era of the timeline as well, because we're only still a few years out from Jedi. yeah So after the destruction of the Death Star at the Battle of Yavin,
00:10:22
Speaker
Imperial commanders and pilots called a meeting, which you can imagine how that went, with top Imperial designers to decide how best to counter the unexpectedly high level of rebel daring and ingenuity, as evidenced by the performance of rebel alliance pilots and machines during the combat.
00:10:37
Speaker
After much debate, the panel concluded that the Empire needed a fighter that was faster, more maneuverable, which is almost a George Lucas quote, so and more lethal. A fighter in short that could surpass the Rebellions, X-Wings and Y-Wings.
00:10:52
Speaker
For economic as well as design reasons, they decided to keep the basic TIE Fighter design and modify it by drawing from the innovations included in Darth Vader's custom-built bent-wing TIE Fighter, which I believe is still a unique ship. Okay.
00:11:06
Speaker
We haven't seen another one. Haven't seen another one quite like it. But obviously the TIE Interceptor has the same thing. And it's got those like bent wings. I'm just drawing them in the air, which you can't see because you're listening to a podcast.
00:11:18
Speaker
But you all know what the wings of the TIE Interceptor look like. And apparently that was to like maximise the surface area of the solar panels, which is what powers the drives, without making the wings bigger. Because already with the TIE Fighters, they were struggling with...
00:11:34
Speaker
Yeah, they obstruct the view of the pilot because they keep coming, if they brought them any further forward. you So by bending them, they get more surface area, I think that's what they mean in the rule book. And also they cut out, there's like a cut out section on the front part of the wings where the sort of they become like dagger bits, the triangle bits, the top and the bottom bits, which allowed the pilot to see through the gaps. I don't know the physics of that would really all work but I love the West End games like explanation les why did they make the time Jessica would love this because she's always talking about like the development of design in Star Wars which I love and I feel like this is a great example of that she'll probably know yeah I bet she does that
00:12:18
Speaker
It's usually Doug Chang, I think, and his team that do this sort of visual development. But yeah I like how the role-playing game did some of that legwork in the early days. Cool. So, yeah, there you It's a bit about the shape of them. They talked about the weaponry, which is instead of, i think, regular ties just have like a dual cannon that's built right on, they call it the chin, the chin-mounted cannon, which kind makes sense. If total fighter can have a chin, we know where it is Whereas this has got four cannons, on each of the tips of the dagger thing, yes which makes it bit more menacing as well. Yeah, yeah.
00:12:53
Speaker
It's quite scary.
00:12:56
Speaker
Cool. And now we see them in action. We see them in action. We see some really, really beautiful shots of the castle just before. yeah It's gone. Lots more lovely shots of Skye, Skye coastline, which is making me want to go there even more. Yeah, course. I was talking to my parents about going back sometime soon and heading over to that west coast to go and check out.
00:13:20
Speaker
Bo-Katan's castle. Yeah.
00:13:24
Speaker
Nice. Oh, that's so funny. My notes no longer make sense because I wrote them on Tuesday. Yeah, this is while ago now. For your information, listener, we postponed as Sia and I went on an adventure to London, which was much fun. we went on an adventure instead. well We needed to prepare. It did impact our regular recording slot. Definitely.
00:13:47
Speaker
I've written here classic bait-and-switch manoeuvre, but I can't remember what that's
Humorous Elements: R5's Fear
00:13:52
Speaker
about, so... Oh, I think it's that they they get Bo-Katan's drawing them off. Yeah. And then Mando goes off and... Gets his N1. Gets his N1.
00:14:02
Speaker
So, yeah, they don't actually bomb the N1. Yeah. At any point. Still don't know what's happened to the N1, whether it's, you know, we're going to see it in the movie or ever again. He does amazing... Like, well, he has done a similar manoeuvre in the Razorcrest, but I feel it was...
00:14:16
Speaker
a little bit more pizzazzy in the N1 where he does like the takeoff he takes off almost vertically immediately and goes up and up and up and then does a quick 180 and dives straight back down yes it's like the most hot rod maneuver and we know the N1 is super zippy and maneuverable but this is this I think this space battle was not really a space battle it's like an atmosphere battle Yeah, I think it kind of really shows us the in full effect, which, why he'd want to go back to the Razor, no, I kind of know why he wants go back to the Quest. More room, he can't really sleep in the he's having trouble. I think he needs to do like a camper van situation, you when people have camper vans and they tow a little tiny car, so that when they get to where they're going, they can drive the little car. That's what we need with the Razor Quest. I like it. We get this great little section of Boca Town flying the cliffs and reassuring our fly. Oh, R5 looks terrified if an astromech could ever really look terrified. He sounds terrified. Doesn't he pass out? He passes out later, think. he does. He just falls over. He gives up. Poor R5, he's been through so much. He has been through a lot.
00:15:28
Speaker
Bo does a funky little 180 move. She can like flick the wings individually. Yes. Because you know like the wings of the gauntlet can do that 180 rotation thing, or 90 degree rotation. yeah And she does a flip of one of the wings, and it makes her whole ship like completely 180. And she goes back to like help doing nothing. There's a line, those mud scuffers bombed my home. Yes.
00:15:53
Speaker
Which is pretty horrific at the moment. But um yeah, mud scuffers. was like, why have we heard that before? And it's what Kara says when her gun jams in the rescue episode.
00:16:04
Speaker
Apparently it's used in star Wars Outlaws as well, which is a game I've not yet played. But I really want to play. Particularly as there's a new book that's come out, well, new-ish, reasonably recently, associated with Star Wars Outlaws, and I feel like I need to play the game before I read the book. Read the book, yeah. Fair. don't think it matters if you do or don't, but I kind of want to. I kind of want to anyway. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. But then pretty much that's it. That's it, yeah. Din sends coordinates to the mystery covert planet and off they go.
00:16:33
Speaker
Did one of them ask the question, where did the ties come from? have no idea now. I think I just asked that myself. Where did these ties come from? Yeah, where did they come from? It is a bit of a random attack, isn't it? But then yeah it's kind of explained away a little bit by Bo-Katan just being like, well, I've pissed off a lot of warlords. Yeah, so it could be another warlord. like It doesn't have to be Moff Gideon. We're assuming it's not Moff Gideon because we don't we don't know about him what's happening with him. but yeah, i mean, it must be somebody in the area. And why don't we see any capital ships? Because...
00:17:06
Speaker
As per the West End Games rulebook, and I think it's still canon, that none of these Tais have hyperdrive. Okay. And although in A New Hope they talk about long-range fighters when they're coming in on the Death Star, but I don't know what long-range, you know, they're not going to be able to travel inter-system without hyperdrive. So they've got to be close. Yeah. Hmm.
00:17:26
Speaker
Interesting.
Music and Direction Praise
00:17:27
Speaker
But yeah, immediately Coruscant. Immediately whisked away to Coruscant. Which gets a beautiful music cue. I noted the music cue as well. It's like, is it the New Republic's theme or it Coruscant's theme? Something like that. But it is lush.
00:17:41
Speaker
I called it majestic. and It is quite majestic, isn't it? Yeah. Which I feel like it is almost prequely in its majesticness. Because obviously the prequels were very different vibe to the original trilogy. Everything's huge in the prequels. There's like a cast of millions rather than a cast of like ten. yeah And the music of Coruscant at the time, yeah i don't know. pretty much it feels so Obviously there's a lot of prequel vibes in this, although it's all a bit twisted. Oh, it's vastly uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah that's a very good way of describing it. hadn't written that down, but like that the whole feeling of this whole episode, really. It's really uncomfortable. and i thought down his like I'm sure it's intended. Shout out to Lee Isaac Chung, who directed this, by the way. Yeah.
00:18:30
Speaker
Who also directed an episode of Skeleton Crew. Okay. Interesting. Something we're going to get to eventually. Yeah. And he also features as a pilot in the pirate episode coming up. okay So we've got to watch out for him. can't remember if he's in like costume. But yeah, it is like he manages to create this discomfort, which I feel is yeah we're supposed to be feeling what Pershing is feeling. Yes, and he's uncomfortable. I think this whole opening bit, he's giving a speech...
00:18:57
Speaker
And we're never quite sure how much of it is kind of act and how much of it is genuine. And it's all really odd. And then instantly after his speech, he meets these people who are just... I've written here that they reek of privilege. It's all really gross. It's disgusting. And they're all like trying not to get involved. And the only place I've seen that before in Star Wars is Androw. Yeah. On Coruscant again. So it's like, oh, these people are still here. yeah, yeah. We're like... I don't know, what is it, 20 years or something after Andor? Maybe not that long, actually. Maybe season one was like 15 years before, perhaps. don't know my maths at this time morning. Is that happening? knows? I'm guessing probably a lot of those people are still the same. They were there in the Senate and they've somehow survived the cull of everything and are still here now as senators for the New Republic. There's a new book coming out later this year, which is the second of a trilogy. The first one was called The Mask of Fear. I can't remember what this one is called. It's got really cool name. Anyway, they just released the book cover and it's got some of the characters of Andor in it. And it's set around the time of...
00:20:05
Speaker
and or it's in that period. Okay. Well, pre-original trilogy anyway. Yeah, yeah. and they add to that feeling, certainly book one did, and I'm sure book two is going to the same thing, where you've got all these people that you just, I guess it's politics really. It's just out of touch grossness. and Yeah. Yeah. Privileged politicians. Privileged politicians. It was really, yeah, it's really uncomfortable. And my favourite quote from that bit was, the outer rim, I can't imagine... Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just like just immediately discounting an entire sector, not sector, like an entire like chunk of the galaxy yeah as being like uninhabitable. Yeah. It's like people in London saying, I could never live up north. Or in a country, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Political Parallels Discussion
00:20:52
Speaker
Just like what? wild and Disgusting. They talk about how the Empire and the New Republic aren't so different. Yeah. Which we've had this before. We've had this before. It's all the same. They're all very, we're not involved. It doesn't matter. they They're mixing up whether they got drafted by the New Republic, whether they got drafted by rebels or the Empire, and they're just like, yeah a really kind of gross way. Yeah.
00:21:14
Speaker
and Without delving too much into politics in the real world, I think watching it this time around, even more so than when I watched it three years ago or whenever it was, I just like felt so uncomfortable because it felt so close to the bone yeah of like, it doesn't matter which part you get in, yeah it's going to be awful. going to be terrible ever. or it's going to be great for these people or terrible for these people. Yeah, yeah and that's getting worse and worse. that's Certainly this country in the UK, our current leadership is supposed to be like a left-wing party, but they're just the most awful. They've just swayed so past centre into the right. Yeah.
00:21:52
Speaker
yeah Wild. Not wanting to get too deep into that, but it felt very like, okay, this is like the Houses of Parliament. Yeah, yeah. And then he gets into this bizarre taxi yeah with a really unnerving taxi droid, come tour guide. A very enthusiastic droid. I found out all the droids in this episode, the Coruscant droids. They're just a bit g creepy. They are creepy, but they're like vintage looking to me. They look like Metropolis, which I guess is a choice because Metropolis is a film about some of this kind of thing almost of like workers versus politicians and the control and everything else.
00:22:32
Speaker
But they have all got that vibe, which is obviously Ralph McQuarrie's his original sketches of Threepio drew on specifically on Metropolis. yeah And these droids feel like they're in the same, hey Jessica, where are you? Like the same kind of design evolution thing. yeah It's not just that they're humanoid, they've just got this kind of so roundness to them. And don't know, yeah, creepy. And again, a design thing, the speeder has like this really deep keel underneath it, like a fin, which we've seen in the prequels before. it's I feel it's a Coruscant design. Coruscant thing, yeah. kind of cool And he's taken off to the Amnesty Program housing, which yeah we kind of don't really know a lot about. help Yeah. It gave me Andor vibes again. It's got the same like brutalist architecture. I feel like they might have used the same locations if they did use locations at all.
00:23:25
Speaker
Certainly to create you the space. Yes. It felt very similar to where like Val and Claire met up in season one of Andor. Like kind of like under, it's parts of London. I think it's in like EC, one of the east central areas of London. Yeah. Where there's a lot of this kind of brutalist, big, great.
00:23:45
Speaker
Yes. like square angles. Yep. Which, again, feels like an Empire thing that's just been, it's just sort of like we rippled into the New Republic. Yeah, and we're just, it's one of those Star Wars things, like as you say, where we're not really told anything about what is going on. We just have to figure it out and
Architecture and Andor Vibes
00:24:03
Speaker
fill in the dots. Go with it. It's kind of cool. I'm guessing there probably is more out there in the expanded, like maybe in the literature space i don't know i feel like i'm up to date with the books but like i don't remember coming across this but i feel like it's the kind of thing that there would be more written about more information somewhere comics or something yeah about how this system of like what do we do with all these imperial prisoners yeah how do we humanely deal with them yes i think there is a bit in bloodlines the book that read recently which is quite a long time after this, but it's still, a lot of it is around the New Republic infrastructure. And I'm pretty sure there was talk of this kind of thing, about how can't we treat the people. And and the Aftermath trilogy, which I'm currently rereading for millions of times. Nice. This is around the same time as Aftermath, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that makes sense.
00:24:56
Speaker
They've all got numbers, haven't they? Yeah, yeah. Which again is very like, dehumanising. Yeah, I'm sure that's what it is. soon But then they instantly kind of humanise themselves in a little way where they're talking about things that they miss from their old yeah positions.
00:25:12
Speaker
And you're kind of like, what? Oh, okay. Yeah. sure I think this is where the discomfort really kicked in. yeah The moment for me where I first started to like really feel on edge, apart from the excessive tour guide droid, yes was when the Doctor kind of recognises Eliakain and they have like this eye contact and you don't know what either of them thinking. They're both doing a really great job as as actors of like being cagey. We know each other, but do we like each other? we know each other. Do we like each other? Do we actually know each other? yeah Have we just seen each other in passing? because And they kind of go into it a little bit later, but it feels like with the Empire stuff, they they kind of keep everyone very separate. It's quite secretive. yeah And like if you don't have the rank, you're not going to know the information kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. yeah Do you mean the bit where they're talking about, like, we didn't speak to each other on Moff Gideon's ship? Yeah.
00:26:08
Speaker
Yeah, that was yeah really sort of like a pointed reference to their separation, yeah yeah which kind of makes sense in kind of military regimes. Like, you've got to keep it all dispassionate and yeah separate.
00:26:20
Speaker
They say yeah that Gideon, they're talking about Gideon. Yes. as they sort of bring out Which I was quite surprised about. I thought that neither of them would mention the fact that they knew each other at all, but they do get into it a bit. yeah And one of them, I can't remember which, says, I heard they hooked him up to the Mind Flayer. Yes. I think might be one of the other Amnesty people. Yeah, I think it is Which, yeah, it's like kind of like setting up what's going to happen later on in the Yeah. But I love it. It's another D&D. Is it a D&D reference or is it a Stranger Things reference at this point? i don't know. It's D&D originally, isn't it? But then... yeah i think I always go Stranger Things in d and D&D when I hear about mind flayer. Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Mind Flayer Reference
00:27:03
Speaker
I remember when that episode of Stranger Things where was first mentioned was aired and like I rushed off to get the monster manuals. Look, like it's the mind flayer. In other words, i'm a geek. Me too. Yay.
00:27:18
Speaker
me do yay Yeah, they they do, they do, is why we're here, they do the, yeah we're going to denounce Gideon. Yeah. We're good people. yeah, yeah. We're not like him. Yeah.
00:27:31
Speaker
Long live the new republic. Blah, blah, blah, all of that bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my God. And then he's on his own in his quarters, I assume, and he's watching a really cheerful sounding film about correspondents.
00:27:45
Speaker
yeah Is this like forced viewing for Amnesty-like people? Do they have to like have this brainwashing of thing? And it's still like the same with the droid as well that's there to like, yeah are you having any feelings? Yeah. It's awful. They're just going to keep asking until you say the right things. Yeah, yeah.
00:28:05
Speaker
It's so grim. It's not great, is it? It does not set up the New Republic as very good. I'm i'm going to be interested to see... In The Mandalorian and Grogu, which is kind of why we're watching all this stuff in a way, yeah is that we're going to see some parts of the New Republic, but i feel like we're just going to see some of the outer rim parts of the New Republic yeah with Sigourney Weaver's character and Carson Tavor and all what's going on with You know, just that little squadron of fighters and fighter pilots out in the Outer Rim and how different that's going to be to what's going on. In Coruscant. Yeah, right in the thick of it. Yeah. Which is, I'm sure, true of a lot like, politics. Yeah, of course. Like, this core thing going on yeah in the capital, but like everywhere life is just continuing. Carrying on, yeah. Yeah.
00:28:52
Speaker
Yeah. But then we see where he's working as well. And like, this is... we get the biscuits. we get Oh, we get the biscuits first. Yeah, there's this little like... I love this just little plot thing of the biscuits are their kind of like relationship. Yeah. It's the one common ground thing that Eliocaine and Pershing have got. They've got a difference in that she liked the red ones, whereas he likes the yellow ones. Yeah. But they still have that kind of yeah common ground, it's their little tiny bit of common ground which she is obviously going to exploit. Exploit, yes. In this cool way of like sending them a little box. Yeah, with no clear motive. Yeah, yeah well, yeah very secretive at the moment. Yeah, yeah. In the Coruscant video, I forgot, I've just realized that I've written this down. They mentioned a word, ecumenopolis, which is what Coruscant is, which is apparently ah planet that is entirely occupied by a city. Ah, yes. i
00:29:49
Speaker
I don't know why that... is in our language because you know we don't we don't know about any cities on any other planets and our planet isn't one big city but maybe it's just like a latin name that's kind of been created by sci-fi writers maybe sure because that is yeah one of the characteristics of this particular planet yeah well we only see the highest mountain top don't we that's the only yeah planet that's visible Which we're about to see, which I think is perhaps why they just threw that through in there. They're just like kind of building, world building, literally. What's going on on Coruscant. What is happening? Yeah. Which means it's all built so high. Yeah. Which is wild. Well, the level that the... We're jumping around a bit here. That's But where they are walking, where they see the...
00:30:35
Speaker
top of the mountain is level 5127. my god. That's the highest place on Coruscant. Okay. It's also called Monument Plaza. And there is like a whole backstory about the levels and the more you kind of like go into the expanded universe stuff. Yeah. There's like particular levels that are like no-go areas. Yeah, of course. Like the lower you go, the worse things it get. Yeah, yeah. In terms of like underworld and danger and everything. Yeah. Although some might say the politicians on level 5127 are more dangerous than anything those that are eking our living lower down in the city. sure
00:31:15
Speaker
We see his job and he's in this cubicle, again, very, very Andor. They've just repurposed the building. Yeah, yeah. It's like where Cyril was working. Yeah, it's exactly where Cyril was working pretty much, isn't it? Yeah. And again, not being utilised for what they're good at. Yeah.
00:31:31
Speaker
And like yeah this real sense of... He's just doing a stupid job. Yeah, he's ah here's a boring job. Kind of almost punishment, but not quite. Taking away there any any kind of power or any situation where they might start to cause disruption or damage.
00:31:47
Speaker
They've got to just be in this really transparent, open plan space where they can be kept an eye on. Which is where that line that I picked about Happy Bendu Day. Yes. We hear a couple of days a week in this. And I don't know if they existed before this episode or if somebody just invented Star Wars days of the week. We get Torgs days as well, don't we? Yeah, that's right. And I don't know what that one refers to, but Bendu Day caught me out because Bendu is a character in Rebels oh who is like a Jedi being. Well, not a Jedi being, a Force being. He's definitely not a Jedi being. He's like a a neutral Force user yeah voiced by Tom Baker. ok And he lives on this remote planet that they set up a base on and they just stumble upon him. Maybe the Force brought them to him. Yeah, yeah. But he's like a sort of a giant kind of, don't know, half wildebeest, half plant. I can't even really describe it. When we watch Rebels, you'll see. He's really cool.
00:32:44
Speaker
It's almost, I suppose, our days of the week are based on god's mythological things. Yeah. And so maybe Bendu is like the equivalent. of like Mythological thing. Yeah. Yeah. The other one's Torg's days. Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:58
Speaker
Tong sounds like god. Could be a god. Sounds bit Norse. Sounds a bit Thursday-ish to me. Yeah. Yeah, me too. Completely fair. So should we go to Monument Plaza? Yes, I think we should.
Monument Plaza Comparison
00:33:12
Speaker
It's almost like...
00:33:14
Speaker
It's working really, really hard to kind of humanise these people, but also not keep you on edge the entire time. Yeah. The other thing I thought about here was it's a bit Hunger Games Capitally. Right.
00:33:26
Speaker
I've not. You've not done those? No, but I do know what you mean. I do know what you mean. know, I know. Oh my. God, that's a treat. I do get that. Having the little I know of it, kind of get that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's exactly, it's very, very similar in that everyone in the capital doesn't really know. There's loads of people there. They're all kind of very ostentatious and they're all like, there's something that happens quite early where they're talking about, they have these massive feasts and then they drink a little thing so that they can throw it all up and carry on eating. Wow. It's really gross. Yeah. And you're siding with the point of view of the characters that live in the equivalent of the Outer Rim, which is the Outer District. Yeah.
00:34:04
Speaker
and So it felt very similar. Yeah, there's a music cue which is, I think, supposed to be diegetic. It's like a kind of fairground carnival major key version of the March of the Resistance, oh which is super weird.
00:34:20
Speaker
I didn't notice it when I watched it when it first aired, when I watched it the other day, was like, wait. Wait a second. Yeah. But in major, yeah, really bizarre. That's so bizarre. Like a bizarre choice as well. yeah. Like the Imperial March in solo, i totally thought. Yeah, that means it. But like the resistance aren't anything yet. They don't exist yet. Yeah. And yet this tune is playing. Yeah. Pretty weird.
00:34:46
Speaker
The other note that I had here is they're they're wandering through this like fairground, lovely place, eating what I can only assume radioactive ice lollies. they They're still kind of dressed as Imperials, in a way. Yeah, I guess the Amnesty. And I was wondering if that's a singling them out as ex-Imperials.
00:35:06
Speaker
and even And that feels kind of cruel in a way. like Yeah. I don't know. Maybe I'm so anti-prison. Yeah, know what you mean. and but i I mean, I think I did find it weird that they part of Amnesty and they're having to do this work, but it's almost like they are volunteers because they're allowed to...
00:35:23
Speaker
to go free, although they have restrictions of where they can go. They're allowing them to go to Monument Plaza, which I find kind of bizarre. But maybe it's like, look, you could have all of this. yeah this is All this could be yours. What's it about? Yeah.
00:35:37
Speaker
yeah Yeah. They have a little bit of a philosophical chat where they're sort of saying that they thought they were doing They thought they were doing good. Yeah. They're trying to be lighthearted, I guess. Yeah. Which, considering everything, Which kind of makes sense. And I suppose you get that everywhere, don't you? You get that whole like, well, we thought we were doing what was right. Yeah, yeah. Nobody... Nobody's nobody nobody's deliberately trying to be an arsehole. Or, well, some people are. Well, yeah. I mean, it is interesting, again, in the expanded stuff. You know, there's more insight into...
00:36:08
Speaker
imperial characters and even with an Andor as well, like Cyril as a character, yeah their motivations are not the same as Palpatine. You know, just because Palpatine was heading up the empire, yeah there were people within it who were maybe like, well, not like these two characters particularly, but they're like motivated by different things. Well, even Anakin to an extent, he wanted order. Yeah.
00:36:31
Speaker
Just yeah not to be chaotic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he's like a very extreme case. Yeah, yeah. And that led to him being an extreme character. But yeah, totally. Well, then, like, we don't know about these two characters' motivations. We still don't know. We still don't The grayness of their characters of like, was Pershing one of those people who was just like a science lover and obsessed with what, you know, it's that Jeff Goldblum thing. So i just never think about whether they should... Yes. They just think about whether they could kind of thing. And he may be, although his motivation, according to his um speech, was helping his mother. Yeah. But then we don't really know that, like they've, so that kind of tell thing where he touches his ear. Yeah. And it all kind of seems a bit disingenuine, doesn't it? So he's bit like, are you telling the truth or are you just bullshitting your way through this? Yeah. But we do have the evidence of season one where we thought he didn't want to be doing what he was doing to Grovy and he didn't want to hurt Grovy. It's all very, very grey.
00:37:35
Speaker
yeah I like a morally grey, yeah moral shades of grey. We've a little bit of Blade Runner vibes where he's being like questioned by the parole droid. my gosh. again has that retro look with this psychological evaluation stuff which is yeah very unsettling. Very unsettling, very grim.
00:37:55
Speaker
And again seems kind of like very Imperial but not because they're annoyingly cheerful. Yeah, yeah. Which makes you feel like you're being trapped. To me, that's kind of what it felt like. This is a very weird flex, but having gone through the healthcare system as a trans person, yeah there's a fair amount of psychological evaluation. Because guess what, guys? They don't just give you drugs for nothing. thing They don't. You have to be evaluated. And there is a sense of like...
00:38:24
Speaker
ah what how am I supposed to be? you know i feel like the droid gives you that vibe of like, are they trying to trick me? Yeah, what's going on? why Why are they doing this? I've also had some various psych evaluations for various things and I find them so weird and so uncomfortable. Yeah. It's really hard not to start like out thinking yourself, and yeah which I guess is the point of them in a way, is it makes you, like you're evaluating yourself. Ostensibly, the doctor is evaluating you. I wonder if it's different because we're fairly clearly quite neuro-spicing. Maybe. I wonder if it's fairly different for...
00:39:07
Speaker
Neurotypical people as well. it Could be. Do neurotypical people find themselves in these situations? Yeah. question to ask Because Pershing is clearly neuro-spicy as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. Interesting to think about. and ah Do we find watching those things as people have been through some psychological evaluation more uncomfortable than... Than people who haven't.
00:39:30
Speaker
Oh my God. oh Well, we might have just opened up a whole other podcast. Yeah. Oh, that's going to in the back of my mind from on. This happens when you record at 9am.
00:39:47
Speaker
Okay, shout out to Regina Hermosia, who voiced the droid. Oh, yeah. She also voices a witch in Tales of the Empire, which I'm guessing is some of the episodes where we learn about Morgan Elspeth. Right, yeah, yeah.
00:40:00
Speaker
The Nightsisters and all of that kind thing. But she was great. I looked her up because I thought she sounded like Tia Sokar who plays Sabine in Rebels. And I oh, is this like another voice acting job for Tia? But no, it's somebody else. she's awesome. Really cool. Cool.
00:40:15
Speaker
My next note was, again, because i my notes don't make sense to me anymore because i wrote them too many days ago. But it now says, what is her game here? Is she evil? What's happening?
00:40:28
Speaker
Because I guess we go straight into her trying to kind of persuade him a little bit yeah that he wants to carry on his science. Yeah, and does she know? she already sown that seed? I mean, she did a little bit at their first meeting in the Amnesty Place, a little bit. Yeah.
00:40:45
Speaker
Because he already is like starting to think that because he asked the droid what would happen. Could I carry on my work? Yeah. You know, in my own leisure kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. And she said, no, because it's cloning. Yeah, No, you're not allowed. I'm not going to doing that. But yeah, Elias immediately cashing in on that. Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:02
Speaker
and And like just stretching him which made me feel uncomfortable. I didn't know she was going to do ultimately what she was going to do, but I felt like there was a reason. i thought she was just trying to help him to like continue with Gideon's work and break out of the New Republic eventually. Yeah. But not, absolutely not. Where she was where she actually went with it. Yeah.
00:41:27
Speaker
yeah I love the nervousness that you start to feel straight
Eliakain's Manipulative Tactics
00:41:31
Speaker
away. mean, it's a trope, isn't it? Of like, we're going to we're going to just stretch the rules here. yeah Yeah, yeah. We're supposed to be being good prisoners of, well, not prisoners, amnesty people. Amnesty people, yeah. But we are going to step out of our designated perimeter. And it's all the kind of greater good. Yeah. She's persuading him it's for the greater good and it's going to help in the long run and all this. And he's quite...
00:41:52
Speaker
This is where I feel like he potentially is a little bit more driven by the science or but tried by the curiosity. Yeah, yeah. Because he talks himself around quite quickly. Yeah, very quickly. And he doesn't seem to be particularly evil and he's so genuinely excited by the labs. Yeah, yeah he He starts to like look at ways of, how can I do this? While also, like yeah, not...
00:42:17
Speaker
Well, basically not getting caught. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's that threat of the Reintegration Institute, which we don't really know what that is, but it doesn't sound good. He's already been there. Yeah. It doesn't sound like fun.
00:42:30
Speaker
There's another droid evaluation as he's making his decision to go with it. And the music is, again, very Blade Runner. yes in Blade Runner, Vangelis used synths to create the score, and it's a very characteristic score. It's like groundbreaking, iconic, all of those things.
00:42:48
Speaker
And this, I think, is orchestral. I can't tell it's orchestral or synths. I think... whoever Is it Joseph Shirley again in this? is he er on after boberfo Yeah. He's good at like using instruments in ways where you don't really don't really know what they are. Yeah. is But it's got that these big slow chords. I think they might even be major chords or like it's in a major tonality overall. Yeah. And it's just...
00:43:12
Speaker
like slightly unsettling it is unsettling yeah that's exactly what it is it's too nice yeah and it's unsettling because it's too nice for the for the situation that you're in yeah and you're so in Pershing's head at that point or like trying to work out what is what his overall motivation is he's trying to make it work he asks again yeah And she's asked him if he felt any anger or resentment yeah to towards the New Republic and has to really think about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's kind like, all right.
00:43:44
Speaker
He's kind of following the rules, but kind of not. It's kind of that um trope with the person who's doing the evil things to you has really cheerful music trope. Yeah, yeah. And it feels very like that. like The one that instantly came to mind is there is a character in one episode of Our Flag Means Death right who's like a classical musician as well as a master of torture. Yeah. And that is his whole thing. Classic. I love it.
00:44:13
Speaker
Musically, they flip it when he goes to see Eliac Cain and says, let's get to it. do We hear pretty much a direct quote of Palpatine's teachings, which is the music cue when Anakin and Palpatine are in the opera. Have ever heard the...
00:44:33
Speaker
The story of Darth Vader. The story of Darth Vader's wise. Yeah, yeah. It's sort of diegetic, I think, in Revenge of the Sith, where it's the music of the opera, I think. I'm not sure whether it's supposed to be or not, because there are other sound design elements of the opera. Yeah. But there is that deep, single note, very, very low male voice, choir note thing. And we hear that when he says it, and it's almost like a dark side vibe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. It's very, very specific. Yeah.
00:45:05
Speaker
I mean, I suppose it's Coruscant evilness what we associate with that music. Yeah, yeah. Coruscant specific evil. But he's still trying to tell himself. He's in the mirror looking at himself saying, you're helping the New Republic. It's the right thing to do, which is where I think because we see him on his own saying that out loud, i feel like he is pretty genuinely just in it for the science. Yeah.
00:45:27
Speaker
And always was, which makes it all the more sad what is about happen. What's about to happen him. And then we're straight into the train. Yeah. He's talked himself around. It's Torg's Day. talkr It's Torg's Day. Torg's Day, am I right? Yeah.
00:45:41
Speaker
had to look up the name of the Boofapel race, which I recognised. I couldn't remember where it was from, but apparently there was one on Canterbite in Last Jedi. That makes That's where I've seen him before, yeah in the casino. That makes complete sense. I think the train's got a really nice yeah music cue as That's exactly what I was going in with. It gave me Lord of the Rings vibes, I think, just because it was quite epic and big sounding. I guess it's spectacular Coruscant landscape again. Everything's a bit grander and a bit bigger. Yeah, i mean, he's enjoying the view. He's like, wow, almost, you know, at the cityscapes. Yes. We go through those little tunnels which were in a Attack of the Clones. I think Anakin and Obi-Wan, when they're chasing Zam Wessel yes through Coruscant, and they go at one point, I think Anakin takes a shortcut that basically takes them into this industrial area. So it could be those same tunnels. I don't know.
00:46:34
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah, they go into that like weird industrial base, which is where they're doing the dismantling. Strapping all of the imperial stuff. Dismantling depot.
Dismantling Depot Insights
00:46:43
Speaker
and Apparently, some of the Republic stuff as well, which is really, again, ties back into the expanded universe and the Aftermath Trilogies where there's some of the interludes where it's talked about the fact that Mon Mothma trying to end the military aspect of the New Republic, whereas a lot of her advisors are sort saying, no, we can't do that yet. There's an advisor called Hostess Idge. Shout out to whoever came up with without name that name. That's so Star Wars. He's saying we can't just dismantle the military.
00:47:14
Speaker
And okay obviously, i' dismantling the the imperial military for obvious reasons, although it does seem like a waste. I think they talk about that in this. They do. Yeah. He talks about it quite a lot, Pershing, when he's in his job.
00:47:29
Speaker
And they're just like, you're too far behind. We need to keep working. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They have a nice little just interchange where one of them says, have you done this sort of thing before?
00:47:39
Speaker
And well, that's Pershing who says that. And Elias says, where do you think I got the biscuits? Which is a nice confirmation of, yeah, you've been manipulated. Yeah, yeah. But by this point, he's so excited about the mission. He doesn't really, yeah. He doesn't realise, oh, she's tricked me. Yeah. He's not quick off the mark. Not at all. I suppose there's being quick off the mark, but there's also, he must be really quite isolated at this point. And like, yeah is she the first person that's kind of shown him some sort of humanness? Yeah. That's not that's not edged. Yeah, she did a really nice thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was quite a challenge because they were like, we can never find those biscuits again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she somehow has got some. yeah so
00:48:22
Speaker
yeah yeah She's very clever. She's very clever. manipulative. I love her character so much. She's good. Yeah, the ticket droid sounded like Richard Iwada again. Yes, it did. Yeah. I looked it up, the droid was not credited. so it could just be a post-production person. Yeah, yeah.
00:48:43
Speaker
Who knows? It's quite a terrifying sequence, that. Yeah, the way it's shot. Like being chased down by the ticket droids. The droid is made to look... Really menacing. I mean, it's literally just like a ticket inspector. yeah Big deal. You might get thrown off the train. But I suppose there is more at stake because they're outside of their designated perimeter. Yeah, they're not supposed to be there. Which could mean some bad stuff. But like, yeah, and i know what you mean. It is really scary. Like unnerving.
00:49:09
Speaker
It's very Blade Runner again, felt. And I also said Matrix, like it reminded me, I guess because of the subway being on the underground. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Running through that. In the Matrix. Yeah. That makes sense.
00:49:21
Speaker
but The exhilaration. Yeah, as they jump off. They jump out, land on whatever they land on. Yeah, he gets that seeing the Star Destroyer thing. Yeah. And he says, I've never done anything like this before. Like he immediately confirms that he's way out his depth. Yeah. And I guess seeing a Star Destroyer on a planet where you get much more of a sense of scale. Yes. Whereas when you see them in space, they will have seen other Star Destroyers from the viewports of another Star Destroyer or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hard to get a sense of scale, whereas you see it on the the surface of the planet. Yeah.
00:49:58
Speaker
Huge. And there's no guards anywhere. I think they do talk about that little bit, don't they? They do. And she's just like it doesn't work. There's no point in guarding it. How can you guard something that big as well? Yeah, yeah. It's just, yeah. They trust the rest of the system. And I think this is the New Republic's downfall generally. It trusts itself too much. Yeah, that makes sense. Which is possibly true of all governments.
00:50:21
Speaker
Music is very like secret mission. Yes. There's like low synth sequence things going on and spooky ambience going on in the top end. It's another one of those things of where does the music end and the sound design begin? Yes. yeah Because I'm guessing there's like sound design of like we're near a big ship that's being dismantled and what does that sound like? that sound like? Yeah, for sure. in the industrial areas of Coruscant. But it is also kind of musical. musical stuff happening. Yeah.
00:50:49
Speaker
We get a tiny little creature shot, nod to a creature shot. Yeah. a little bug. Which I tried to find out and there's no, like, I couldn't find any reference to it. haven't checked the bestiary book yet. I keep meaning to. It's on my sofa. I keep thinking, I want to look up the little woodlouse thing that's creeping around.
00:51:07
Speaker
It's quite cute. It's got a good sound. Yeah, it I feel like it should have a name. In the in the um subtitles, it said chitters. Yeah. It was the description of the sound, which is quite a good description of the sound, I guess. Pretty accurate. but And then, yeah, we get into the lab and he's so excited. Yeah. quite cute at that point. He says, this is perfect. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I do feel for him because he is clearly a geeky science nerd, you know, and I've got a lot of time for those people. Yeah, yeah. even if They have been sort of duped into using their science for something that's not very good. Yeah, that's true.
00:51:44
Speaker
Yeah, he reflects a bit on what it felt like to start working somewhere like this. To be given a lab. Yeah, he's achieved a goal, you know, in life, which... I kind of relate to that as well. I feel really sad that I now no longer have access to like university facilities yeah and like yeah yeah yeah recording studios and all of this stuff. It's just so out of reach. like It's what I'm trained to do, but it's so out of reach because I can't afford it yeah. yeah it's like
00:52:15
Speaker
I've spent all this money and time learning how to do all this stuff and then just having zero access and have to... That's super interesting. now I'm sure there's a parallel there with science as well of like, yeah in history, the validation of being in a space like that, there were limited spaces. yeah Only a certain number of people ever managed to get to work in recording studios. and I mean, I've been lucky to work in some recording studios, but not very often have I been in the very high-end ones. And I yeah still would get that when I go into high-end place. I'm like, ooh, am I allowed in here? yeah yeah
00:52:46
Speaker
and And that sort of achievement of that. But now we're in a time where where we can do that stuff anywhere, really. yeah Do we need to go into recording studios? And I feel like this storyline is a bit like, well, what do we actually need from this lab? Can I just take it home and carry on with this incredible...
00:53:01
Speaker
pioneering work on cloning. Yeah. ah For better or worse. Yeah, sure. We get a bit of insight into her, like she says quite darkly that she didn't have a chance to think about what she wanted to do. So I'm guessing she's an imperial that was taken as a kid. Yeah, yeah. Radicalised or recruited or whatever, kidnapped. She does say something earlier about going to the academy on Coruscant, doesn't she? Yeah. that an imperial academy or is that a...
00:53:27
Speaker
Possibly, but I don't know that that would be the beginning of her Imperial life because I feel like, I don't know, maybe it depends on what you're taken for. We don't still don't really know about Stormtrooper recruitment and we see that in the First Order yes like Finn and the sort of talk about his background and stuff. Yeah.
00:53:48
Speaker
I think there's a novel, which I've not read yet, or is it an audiobook? I'm not sure. It's about him and the character whose name slips my mind at the moment, who he met in Rise of Skywalker on the Endor Moon. And yeah, by that point, they're doing that kind of child kidnapping type thing. But I don't know with the Empire. Yeah. It's still a little bit unclear.
00:54:12
Speaker
unclear But I just felt like she didn't have a very happy story to tell. No. Yeah, of course. yeah It's all very, yeah time to run. oh no.
Eliakain's Betrayal
00:54:22
Speaker
Yeah. You've been betrayed. Yes.
00:54:25
Speaker
And like this moment as well, what could she have possibly said to them to get the the New Republic on her side? Yeah. but While exonerating her. But i so I almost felt like she's working, like part of her amnesty. Yeah.
00:54:42
Speaker
is she's working for them because we see her in the operating theatre area, place. Yeah. You know, she's watching and she's allowed to stay by the controls of the 602 mitigator. Yeah. I feel like she must be all in with the New Republic on the surface.
00:55:00
Speaker
Yeah. And kind of is she? I don't know. like All of her motivations are so baffling yeah to me, which is great. I'm not criticising the writing in that sense. like i I want to know more about who is she loyal to at this point. Yeah. Well, we just don't we don't have any kind of clues to that because by the end of this episode, I assumed that her motivation was wipe him so that the New Republic don't know yeah what we were doing. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. I mean, he's been talking about his, like he spoke at the Opera House to all of those New Republic people about what he was doing. yeah But the why he was doing it, maybe maybe that's what she's trying to conceal of like how far did they get with...
00:55:44
Speaker
force users and cloning yeah and all of the stuff that Pershing was doing. yeah I don't think he was maybe fully open. The fact that he did the thing with his ear yeah yeah when he was lying, like we know he wasn't being completely open and honest in his public yeah speech.
00:55:59
Speaker
So there's all of that intrigue. My God, there's so much intrigue. I'm left with loads of Eliacain intrigue, which I think is brilliant. We're What's going on with her What is she doing? Yeah. My whole note for this next section was, what is her game? Yeah.
00:56:16
Speaker
Is this creepy music supposed to be soothing? What's going on? Yeah. It's like, it's sort of patriotic, like uplifting, but it's all really wonky. It's got like this pitch LFO on it the whole time, which is making it sound like it's an old record player that's warped. You know, it's that...
00:56:33
Speaker
It's weird and so creepy. Uncomfortable. I guess like when you, I've never had an m MRI scan, but I know when you have an MRI scan, which is our nearest thing. Oh I've had a CT scan. Yeah, I've had a CT, but I think with CT, because you're not in the tube.
00:56:49
Speaker
Like when you're in the tube of MRI, they play music. Did they play music when you had your CT? Yeah. No, they have a really creepy voice that goes, breathe in and hold your breath. Yeah. Breathe normally.
00:57:00
Speaker
And that's quite creepy. There was one that I've been in once. and They stopped giving them to me because they they were just increasing my likelihood of cancer in other areas. But so I did used to have them really regularly. And some of them played music, but not all of them because I've had them in different cities and in different places. So like I had some in Aberystwyth, some in Bristol, some in Cornwall.
00:57:21
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So they're all different. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I have had few that played music. I think my dad said when he had an MIR recently that they play music just to sort of soothe you while you're in that uncomfortable thing. And I didn't feel like that's what they were doing here, but it was the most unsoothing music. It was the most uncomfortable thing ever, yeah. Possibly played. But yeah, she cranks up the controls. Yeah.
00:57:43
Speaker
Don't turn it up past this point. Yeah. Or else it would be really dangerous. Okay, yeah. It is very dark. It's so dark. this This should offer him some relief. Like they're doing this to relieve him of the trauma of whatever he was doing before. It feels quite clockwork orange to me as well. It's
Mind Flayer's Controversial Use
00:58:02
Speaker
all that kind of... Yeah, it's like supposedly selective yeah yeah memory adjustments. It's very dark. Yeah. Very, like, the New Republic is, they're trying to be humane, yeah but they're using a mind flayer. Yeah, to do it. yeah It's not a mind flayer. He's assuring Pershing, isn't he? The Mon Cal is like, we're not that primitive. I've done this myself. It's fine. I've had it. That's very um His Dark Materials. yeah When they go to the north and they're in the... cutting machine. Yeah. Yeah.
00:58:33
Speaker
I've had it done. It's a little operation. It's fine. It's just a little thing. It'll be so much better for you. What are we talking about here? Absolutely not.
00:58:44
Speaker
I love that the last thing we see is her eating a travel biscuit. Yeah. In a slightly evil manner. Just after she's ramped up and wiped his... Wiped his memory. oh So, I mean, I guess we might see him again, but he'll be basically Lobot, you know. Yeah.
00:59:02
Speaker
And how how is she going to get away with that? How is she going to be like, oh, it slipped and now his brain's melted. Maybe she doesn't care. Maybe she knows she's going to get put in prison. Yeah. But like her, she needed to do this. Yeah. And the only way she could get him into this machine and...
00:59:20
Speaker
Wipe his brain. Having heard, they had the conversation at the beginning of the episode about this is what happened to Gideon. Yeah, yeah. She knows this is the only way we can do this and the only way to get him there is to do this. And if that means sacrificing herself to go to the reintegration whatever. Then fine, yeah.
00:59:35
Speaker
i don't know. Wild. Who knows? Maybe we'll find out at some point. Do know anything about her after this? She appears again. Doesn't she appear again later in the season? think she does, yeah. i feel ah Yes, I think she does. When we see Carson Tavor go and try and persuade the New Republic to like investigate what's going Yeah, we see kind of a little flash of her because she then knows that Moff Gideon escaped.
00:59:57
Speaker
Interesting. Or she gets the confirmation through that conversation. Interesting. I love all of this stuff. I love this story arc. I know there are people who were confused about this episode and didn't like it because it was so different for the same reason they didn't like The Return the Mandalorian. yeah I just like this bigger picture stuff. It's what makes us excited about what we're going to see in Mando and Grogu. We may not see anything, yeah but like if we do, well we are going to see some of the New Republic. and yeah I'm fascinated by all of it, by yeah the politics of it.
01:00:26
Speaker
What's going to happen? Yeah. We go back briefly for a little epilogue. My three little bullet points back to Mando. Back to Dyn, see what he's up to. We're on the rocky planet again, where which we saw in the previous episode.
Mando's Redemption and Bo-Katan's Acceptance
01:00:40
Speaker
He is an apostate no longer. Yeah.
01:00:43
Speaker
Although there's a lot of quite unhappy about it. Yeah. To start with. And we've got this whole added thing of like, is Boca Town? Like, I do love the way that... the The Armorer is very chill.
01:00:56
Speaker
Yeah. You know, we felt like she's, as this sort of cult leader or whatever, they're not really a cult, but like she has been a bit sinister and she's given Mando ultimatums and booted him out of yeah group and everything yeah for just removing his helmet and everything else. So we sort of felt like she's strict. But she says to Bo-Katan that by creed, you two are redeemed. And yeah she says, you can join as long as you want, but you can go at any time as well. It's like I'm no...
01:01:23
Speaker
I don't know. I mean, I guess that's a cult tactic as well. Yeah, that's true. I don't feel like it's a cult. She's not being sinister at this point, is she? is's not It's not a threat in the same way that it was kind of before, I guess. like Yeah, yeah. It doesn't feel... Yeah, I feel it's often her character. Although, I mean, when this was airing, we were still speculating as to whether she was bad.
01:01:42
Speaker
You know, right was the Children of the Watch not a good place to be? I don't know. I'm sorry, my last note has just made me laugh. I've written, nice caves, time to see the armourer. Boca-chan's given a home too, both redeemed, one of us, yay! Yay! That was my summary of the epilogue.
01:02:04
Speaker
I know. I feel like I've got mixed feelings. Bo-Katan, I like the fact that she's a believer, like she's ah a convert, that she's no longer an apostate. She's redeemed.
01:02:15
Speaker
She's part of the tribe. yeah But also ah know that it still isn't what she who she is. She doesn't feel comfortable there. No. And Mando said to her already, he says, don't take your helmet off. It's going to go a lot smoother if you don't. Yeah.
01:02:29
Speaker
Yeah. There was a lush musical cue at this point, which I think is my favourite. I was torn between Palpatine reference, but I feel like that's not really a new cue, whereas this is a new cue, where it's kind of very tribal and there's a version of the Mando piano riff, um the da-dum thing, which we had a lot in season one and two, but it's down an octave. It's right at the bottom of the piano range. And there's this...
01:02:57
Speaker
You know the the major seven dissonant thing that we got for the cover in season one? yeah Yeah. Which is there, but it's played by strings and synths and stuff now.
01:03:10
Speaker
But it's definitely like the armorer's theme kind vibe or the Children of the Watch theme. yeah I love that that came back and it's just a really interesting new version of it and almost more extreme version of it all. We're deep in the Children of the Watch at this point. Yeah.
01:03:27
Speaker
Which I think is what Bo-Katan was feeling of like, what am I letting myself in Where am I now? Yeah. But she also she doesn't have a home. Her home's been bombed. Yeah. Her home's been bombed. Her gang, like her sect of Mandalorians have all gone off to do their thing yeah and left her on her own.
01:03:42
Speaker
But she has also seen um a mythosaur. mythosaur. Yeah. And that's how we end the episode with her looking at the mythosaur plaque on the wall kind of thing. Yes. Hmm. And everyone's being very warm and like making physical contact with them, apart from Paz Vizsla. Paz Vizsla has always been a bit... Stand-off-ish. Yeah, think he's just a bit bitter generally about the Darksaber and everything. Yeah, fair. Yeah, super cool episode. Super cool. A lot going on. What a ride.
01:04:16
Speaker
What ride. And we're going to come straight back next week with an absolute contrast episode. i know. Is this the nutty one? It's the dinosaur egg one. Oh my God.
01:04:27
Speaker
It's wild. um Yeah, is the perfect contrast to this. It's so cool.
Listener Engagement and Farewell
01:04:36
Speaker
Excellent. Thanks for visiting this episode with us, listener. hope you've enjoyed our little Coruscant excursion. Little spin. If you did, leave us a little five-star rating or review on Spotify or Apple or anywhere where you can leave reviews. reviews help us they'll help us to reach other people and get more people listening and more people into our ridiculous social media conversations yeah that is true and you can follow us on all of the platforms not all of them only the good ones yeah when i say good ones not all of them some of them not that good either but we are there because needs with that we have to be there
01:05:21
Speaker
Facebook, Instagram, Blue Sky and YouTube you can follow Yeah, those are the best places. If you subscribe to us on YouTube and just give us a little comment every now and again, then that helps the reach there. Yeah, YouTube subscribers would be cool, actually. we We haven't got many. We're still in single figures ah double figures, but not more than double figures. But yeah, we have got a little community there going on.
01:05:42
Speaker
Slowly building. but Yeah. Hope you've enjoyed listening. We will be back next week for chapter 20. twenty in twenty We're getting there. We're getting close to the film. It's getting very
01:05:58
Speaker
Yeah, but until then, bye.