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Ang Richard on Coaching Gen Z, Becoming a LinkedIn Top Voice, and Reimagining the Campus-to-Career Playbook
62 Plays3 months ago
Ang Richard (angrichard.com, linkedin.com/in/angela-richard/), a Gen Z career coach, TEDx speaker, LinkedIn Top Voice, and PhD candidate in higher education, joins host Dan Freehling (contempusleadership.com) to examine how Gen Z is navigating a rapidly changing world of work. Angela reflects on shares guidance for early career professionals on handling criticism and staying grounded in impact rather than online noise (03:35). She explores how generational differences in communication styles and values, especially around feedback, work-life balance, and career development, are often misinterpreted as deficiencies rather than differences (06:56). Angela also discusses the current labor market and its disproportionate impact on early career professionals, emphasizing the importance of realistic, data-informed coaching that acknowledges structural barriers alongside individual agency (13:22). The conversation also covers Angela’s approach to LinkedIn as a space for authentic thought leadership, where sharing failures and uncertainty builds trust and community rather than personal branding polish (21:44). Angela shares insights from her doctoral research on the school-to-work transition, sense of belonging, and intersectionality, as well as her work examining how federal workforce policy connects unevenly to community colleges across states (32:07). Recommended reading: “The Privileged Poor” and “Class Dismissed” by Anthony Abraham Jack, “The Unspoken Rules” by Gorick Ng, “Careers by the People” by Mike Wysocki. Show notes at forwardlookingleadership.com.
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Transcript
Introduction to Ange Richard
00:00:03
Speaker
Hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of Forward Looking Leadership. Today, I'm honored to be joined by Ange Richard. Ange is a Gen Z career coach, a TEDx speaker, and a LinkedIn top voice who's on a mission to redefine what it means to show up professionally.
00:00:17
Speaker
Ange, thanks so much for joining me on Forward Looking Leadership.
00:00:23
Speaker
Dan, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. My pleasure. Thanks for taking the
Handling Criticism as a Young Professional
00:00:27
Speaker
time. So I want to start off with your comment from Steve, the Florida Isuzu dealer on your LinkedIn about how you're too young to be giving career advice. Why would anyone listen to this? All of that kind of garbage that's out there.
00:00:39
Speaker
What is your advice to other young professionals who are interested in careers and coaching? So I can just picture Steve's face in my head. I'll never forget that comment. It's one that sticks out to me so much. And granted, I do share a lot online. I share my opinions. I share perspectives. I will share other thought enhancement and leadership in the space. And so I do know that I open myself up to those comments and criticisms, and they don't bother me in any way. they They make me reflect quite a bit on the world of work dynamics in which we encounter on a regular basis.
Generational Biases in the Workplace
00:01:15
Speaker
There is a lot of bias toward Gen Z showing up in the world of work, right? There is a lot of bias from young people toward senior leadership and supervisors and managers based on certain styles or approaches and and ways that they might perceive work-life balance or not and what early career professionals are looking for, right? So there's a lot of nuance in the world of work. There are a lot of perceptions that...
00:01:42
Speaker
Maybe are based in personal experience or greater clickbait headlines, but all that to say, for folks who are striving to be coaches, who are striving to share their voice online, who are striving to bring about their perspective in an open forum,
00:02:01
Speaker
you may receive comments like
Dealing with Negative Online Comments
00:02:03
Speaker
Steve's. And that is just something that is par for the course. And it's all in how you handle it. It's all in how you work with it. Anytime I do get some sort of critical or negative comment, I really try to assess, you know, what is this based in?
00:02:19
Speaker
Is there something I can learn from this? Is there a good conversation that can come from this? Steve's comment yeah wasn't really too much there to have a ah good conversation with. If you approach it differently, maybe we would have had some good banter. I just said right back in his face, you know, who are you? You know, too old to be criticizing young professionals because that's exactly what that kind of comment was rooted in.
00:02:47
Speaker
Again, for folks who... are striving to be coaches who are seeking to be online, remember that positive feedback that you get. Remember those positive messages that you receive from your clients or folks in your
The Role of Feedback in Coaching Careers
00:03:00
Speaker
periphery. That DM that you get when someone says your post resonated with them.
00:03:05
Speaker
when you know When people tell you they're they're glad to have heard your voice, those are the comments that matter. You are helping someone. And even if you just help one person a day or someone's, you know, just one person is saying, oh my gosh, you know, that really resonated with me.
00:03:19
Speaker
That is all you need. It really is all you need. And those comments can be really tough too to get through. But hopefully you have a network of folks around you who can remind you of how great you are, who can remind you of how much value you can bring.
00:03:31
Speaker
And hopefully those comments get a little bit easier too to deal with. Yeah, i love I love that advice for folks. And i shared the article from even a few years ago and, you know, I'm in the millennial generation for sure. But even a few years ago, I was getting that that same kind of crap from people of just, you know, like, wait, wait 30 years before you know something about leadership to become a coach.
Misconceptions About Coaching
00:03:51
Speaker
And it's this idea that...
00:03:52
Speaker
You know, coaching is you basically turning around and sharing with people all of your leadership wisdom from your entire career. And, you know, that certainly parts of of coaching can be that, but, you know, kind of more mentoring than anything, but it's funny. I've got a whole screenshot folder of those kinds of comments, and, right, they they can hit really hard. And I always think to myself, you know did I really say something or did I really share something that was so off-putting? And 99% time, i'm being myself. And I never claim that, you know, I know more than someone, you know, I know more than someone who has 30 years of experience. I likely don't. i
00:04:30
Speaker
I'm happy with how much I don't know. I'm humbled by that every day. And I'm just always so excited to discover new ways of of working, new ways of understanding leadership styles, new ways of thinking about collaboration in the world of work. And I think the more that folks can adapt that I'm excited by what I don't know rather than feeling really defensive or constricted by that feeling,
00:04:50
Speaker
the happier we'll all be. We can all let our guards down a little bit more. We can relax our shoulders, unclench our jaws and just say, you know what? I have something to learn from everybody. i can be open to learn every day. that's ah That's a really much more powerful move to make um in the world of work.
00:05:06
Speaker
That's beautifully said. And, you know, i tried to look up the statistics. Again, I couldn't find them for 2025.
Welcoming Gen Z into Coaching
00:05:11
Speaker
not sure if they were in the same report. But even when I wrote that article a few years ago, it was something like 8% of coaches were under the age of 45. And was like, wow, this is this is not a good sign for the future of the profession if it is that is this much skewed. And I think anything that we as coaches can do to welcome in Gen Z coaches now into the profession and really, you know, make sure that that you feel like this is a career that that you can take on that you can thrive in all of that is really important to me. And I'm just so glad to see you doing this and stepping into it and being so out there online and on LinkedIn and and sharing your your thoughts on career on coaching on leadership and all of this kind of stuff.
00:05:53
Speaker
We are grateful for folks like you, Dan. I think, you know, Gen Z just as a generation, coaches are not craving mentorship, right? Craving those examples, those leaders, those folks that they can look to for advice, to challenge them, to help them push back on things.
00:06:08
Speaker
Folks like you are are what we're looking for and what we need in in our work. Again, whether coaching or not, whether no matter your occupation. So that's really important. And I'm always so, so grateful for folks who have you know been in the role longer than me or have way more years of experience and wisdom. When they're able to share that with me, it is such a blessing. It's such a gift. And I can only hope to share it more broadly and share it in a different way or take it from Angela's perspective and give credit where credit is due.
00:06:36
Speaker
Thank you so much. That means a lot. Yeah, just keep keep going on it. It's it's awesome to see. i'm very excited for you. Well, we'll keep going on LinkedIn. There's nothing there. It's
Gen Z Competencies and Workplace Misconceptions
00:06:47
Speaker
so right. So on this on this kind of Gen Z note, what what do you feel is most misunderstood about Gen Z, especially in the working world?
00:06:56
Speaker
There is a lot that's misunderstood about Gen Z, I think. i And there' is there's a couple ways to take this. And I'll be sharing and experience a story that I am able to tell from this summer. So I went to a conference in San Diego where I got to speak to college-age students, you know, anywhere from 18 about 26, 27. a spectrum, which was amazing. And i was so happy to have that audience.
00:07:21
Speaker
And I did ah a bit of a twist on my workshop about navigating the intergenerational workforce where I actually asked participants, can you rank yourself in your proficiency with the career readiness competencies? And if folks aren't familiar with the career readiness competencies, they're from NACE. There are eight career readiness competencies Don't ask me to name them all right now, but a few examples are professionalism, communication, leadership, critical thinking, equity inclusion, cetera, et cetera. So there are eight of those pillars. And basically what those are is it's the feedback from employers that they're expecting early career professionals to be proficient in, to be competent in. And that's in turn what Career Services is sharing with early career folks, Gen Z at this time, of these are some of the things that you need in your toolkit to be successful. And so I asked my audience, you know, rank your proficiency here. And what we know from nas surveys is that the world of work, the managers of Gen Z, they believe Gen Z is really strong at technology and equity and inclusion. Those are kind of the the pillars of them, right?
00:08:27
Speaker
And they rank them very poorly in communication and professionalism, especially. Critical thinking is also down there as well. Well, when I asked my audience, and granted, I'm talking to a group of of scholars, some some pretty, you know, positive, motivated young people. But anyway, they ranked their professionalism and communication incredibly high. Very, very high.
00:08:52
Speaker
And they ranked their career and self-development in both of the groups that I had. It was about probably 60 people total. Career and self-development fell at the bottom. And technology was kind of in the middle. Equity and inclusion is the middle. And that just told me, you know, there is such a disconnect between what employers are perceiving and how Gen Z believes they are showing up in the world of work. So that is a huge misconception,
Employer Perceptions vs. Gen Z Strengths
00:09:13
Speaker
right? If we have an early career employee who thinks that they are communicating very strongly, very well, and that might look like maybe more direct communication, more often communication, requesting feedback. But we have a manager who says this young employee is not self-sufficient. They are asking for too many follow-ups. They need too much you know reassurance or feedback. Like this is a style that I'm not used to.
00:09:37
Speaker
we're We're operating very parallel, right? We're not operating together. There's no kind of integration or collaboration there. And so that is one of the bigger misconceptions, I think, about Gen Z in the world of work. And and one that comes up quite a bit is this, where are they falling on career readiness competencies? and And how are they showing up in the world of work? What Gen Z might perceive as their strengths, the world of work may not see those in the same way.
00:10:02
Speaker
Another really crucial study out of Susie Welch's research lab at NYU showed, you know, employers want Gen Z to want to work for the sake of work, right? That's a very core value.
00:10:16
Speaker
Gen Z does not have that value. There's more of a work-life balance value. And so, again, we're we're in an era of very... different values in the world of work. And I think they're only becoming starker, especially in this very competitive and even less competitive, just sort of ah a vacuum job market of just nothingness, right? There's, it's not competitive if we're not even getting emails back, opportunities to interview, opportunities to connect with employers. It's just,
00:10:44
Speaker
It's a bottomless, empty pit. And so I think there's a lot of these, you know, misconceptions that are getting exacerbated by the challenges young people are facing to even make it in the world of work. Questions about, you know, what have I been doing all this time, all these years, to be successful and be a positive contributor in our world of work, and I'm not getting anything in return? um I'll end with a couple, you know, lots of headlines, lots of clickbait about Gen Z, right? I mean, they bring their parents to an interview. They're the most difficult generation to work with. Managers are firing them left and right. They're adopting terms like micro-shifting, career lily-padding, career minimalism. I mean...
00:11:25
Speaker
Dan, we could go on on and on about all of those, but I think all that to say Gen Z is being very vocal about their values in their own offices and workplaces, but also a little bit more broadly given social media. Maybe it's LinkedIn. Maybe it's TikTok. Maybe it's Substack
Social Media and Workplace Values
00:11:42
Speaker
even. There's a lot of writing that's happening.
00:11:45
Speaker
And so I just encourage everyone to be very open, be very cognizant of how your individual teams are operating and functioning, because that may not be representative or conducive to what the headlines are saying.
00:11:58
Speaker
Take care to take stock of your people. And again, just be so open to learning and understanding and growing in a way that might be a little different than you have done before. Again, a beautiful answer on this. And I think it's with all of these generational questions, it's it's always, you know, every individual is going to be different and not fully representative of the the generation and certainly not of the clickbait headline parts of the generation to hundred percent Yeah, I'm always underscoring, especially, you know, to to young people or to intergenerational teams, right? We might use these characterizations to talk about folks. But again, pay attention to who you are supervising, right? Pay attention to who you are working alongside every day because those individual more one-on-one needs are important.
00:12:44
Speaker
way more important than whatever some Newsweek article is telling us about the latest Gen Z trend in the workplace, right? Like focus on focus on what matters in your day-to-day and don't get so caught up in these these headlines that are meant to grip you in and are meant to make you saying maybe think negatively, maybe think positively.
00:13:02
Speaker
Focus on your people who are who are right next to you every day. For your Gen Z clients, for students, what are some misconceptions that you think that they're holding that are holding them back from really thriving in careers that that you're seeing like as ah as a theme, as a pattern, anything like that?
Gen Z Job Market Challenges
00:13:22
Speaker
I really feel for my early career clients right now. A lot of the inquiries I get are really around, you know, and I can't find a job. I don't know what to do anymore. i feel I've done everything.
00:13:34
Speaker
And it's just a really hard season to work with early career folks. And again, I just I feel for folks so, so deeply. It is incredibly challenging understand. to support people who are absolutely doing everything right, who have an incredibly tailored resume, who have been reaching out to people, who have been showing up, who have been clamoring to get into the room, and there's just there's just nothing there. It is super, super hard.
00:14:02
Speaker
One of the the pieces that often comes up in those conversations is you know Gen Z's sort of I guess, disposition as a professional, that they are showing up very well, very, very clearly, very pointedly in ah in a way that would be accepted. And I think they accepted expected the world of work to be a little bit more accepting of their values orientation and some of the suggestions or ideas or changes that have come kind of as a result of the pandemic when maybe they weren't fully making up the world of work yet. but you know, things like flexible workplace arrangements, a little bit more, i guess, humanity from leadership and from teams. And we've seen those traits and those those new adoptions in the world of work as a result of the pandemic not stand the test of time, right? We're seeing RTOs left and right. We're seeing very serious management leadership, you know, sort of dismissal of entry-level candidates in a lot of ways, you know, directly through hiring or just, you know, not favoring early career folks.
00:15:04
Speaker
that's been a hard thing for Gen z to stomach. And i think the repercussions we're going to see later is just this really big mistrust, distrust in the world of work, right? if If early career professionals on their baseline, their footing, aren't nurtured, aren't supported, aren't you know, given the mentorship or opportunities to learn, to grow, and to thrive. Well, what about when they're at mid-level? I mean, that that could have some poor repercussions on the management that we see down the line, right? I don't know. It's it's a lot to plot to kind of think about, right? Your early experiences really impact the rest of your career and what's to come. And I have to believe, you know, because Gen Z is quite values-oriented and is very...
00:15:49
Speaker
you know, very interested in seeing a world of work that is a little bit different from what we've seen in years past, kind of breaking away from some of those professionalism standards or sort of archaic molds of how the world of work should look.
00:16:02
Speaker
I have to believe there'll be some change, but maybe not without some growing pains of, you know, the the come up into their careers and how that's been going for them. I think, too, you know, they're
00:16:16
Speaker
There's a lot to be said for, again, just like general treatment for from the world of work toward young people. There is a lot to be said for different experiences and sort of privileging certain experiences. i mean, we still see, you know, social capital is so important for anybody, but especially early career folks to get that leg up and, you we're We're still seeing this divide and this gap in you know who gets opportunities, who doesn't get opportunities.
00:16:46
Speaker
That's really hard for folks to stomach as well. I mean, I talk with so many early career folks who maybe had this fellowship at Apple and were also part of this mentoring platform or program and still coming up empty. And I think that's such a hard thing for folks to stomach when you are doing everything 100% right and truthfully you are.
00:17:09
Speaker
And you're still coming up short. i mean, that's a sinking, devastating feeling. And i see it every day. And it's hard. But I'm also so, again, always impressed and motivated and encouraged by today's early career folks. I know that they have so much to offer. And I know that their impacts are going to be really strong.
00:17:30
Speaker
There's just been a lot of struggle, challenge to even get there and to be able to make that impact. So I guess some, you know, overall misconceptions, right? Thinking the world of work would be a little bit more welcoming. Thinking that, you know, going to college and securing this degree or or going through this program would set me up to be successful. Having to sort of unpack that and what that means and how to find success, even if the path doesn't look the way we might have thought it would.
00:17:58
Speaker
But I'm really proud of them for bringing in people as much as they can, for sharing about these experiences and being transparent. We're only better for that and because of that.
Realism in Coaching Careers
00:18:08
Speaker
And I just hope for i hope for some better outcomes in the months and years ahead for young people because we're really amongst a generation of general anxiety and tension and not so positive looking outlooks on on what's to come.
00:18:26
Speaker
Yeah, and the, I mean, the pandemic and the current labor market are just really crazy to deal with for for everyone. i work work with a lot of clients in the social sector, and it's a lot of the same thing. You'll get people who are super experienced, have all the qualifications, meet a job perfectly, have a great resume, have done all the networking, and there's just 500 people, 1,000 people applying for it, and it's there's nothing you can really do besides keep putting yourself out there and keep keep showing up in a positive way and trying to figure out where to apply next. But it's, um yeah, I feel you on that. it's it's It's pretty crazy out there right now and it can be tough for clients to stay in the game.
00:19:05
Speaker
It can look really bleak. and But something I try to do in my coaching is just be very realistic. I really try not to sugarcoat things. And I know that there is a lot of coaching kind of couched in maybe some toxic positivity or some overly positive, you know, yourpi and and conversations and That is helpful to an extent, but not when we are dealing with a reality that is not um able to be treated or approached with that kind of mindset. I mean, we have to get very, very real about the unemployment rate.
00:19:39
Speaker
about job prospects in certain sectors, about job applications and how broken those processes are and how volume is such a bigger part of the world of work process and finding an opportunity than it used to be. And so I do try and balance, you know, empowerment and empathy with what is going on, what is actually happening and what the data is telling us about, you know, how the world of work is faring.
00:20:07
Speaker
I'm so glad you brought that up. And, you know, i I always say have a love-hate relationship with the coaching profession. And that is certainly one of the the hate parts of it is this everything always has to be that positive future orientation. And that's largely true, but there are there's a ah healthy dash of reality that needs to be mixed in there. And I'm so glad you're going right for that and bringing in your expertise and the data and all of that into it.
00:20:35
Speaker
I'm happy to. It's something that is really important to me because, again, right, we can we can only give so much advice or insight or wisdom while turning an eye, you know, not looking at the data, not looking at what the Bureau of Labor Statistics is telling us, not looking at what, you know, some consulting reports are sharing about workplace values and workplace culture. Yeah. so I'm glad that you are are prioritizing that as well. I think it's super important and can lead to some more uncomfortable conversations, but the ones that are really needed for early career folks to understand what's going on around them.
00:21:08
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, just the the very fact of gaining that expertise in what is the the current labor market looking like? What is the world of work looking like these days? And, you know i think that's something that coaching as a profession can miss a lot of the time, this idea that The client has all of the answers and there's nothing that a coach could possibly know. And it's, it lets people off the hook for doing the legwork of actually understanding what the reality is now. And it turns into this exercise of just, you know, optimism and positivity, no matter what. I think that turns a lot of clients off.
00:21:41
Speaker
Definitely. I couldn't agree more. So you're on LinkedIn and and really, can I say, crushing it on LinkedIn. As complicated of relationship as I have with coaching, I think I have probably even more with LinkedIn and ol and um how strange this platform can be.
00:21:57
Speaker
How
Authenticity on LinkedIn
00:21:58
Speaker
do you approach LinkedIn? What do you think about it? And really, how do you think about it differently than the kind of cringy garbage LinkedIn that's goodt that can be so common? ah Without naming names, no i Yes, I love LinkedIn. I think it is an incredible tool and platform.
00:22:15
Speaker
I am so privileged and grateful and just you know in awe every day that I get to have a voice there and get to express my ideas and share my thoughts and have that that little blue bubble next to my name. It's really such an honor. And folks will ask, you know, Ann, did you know that you were getting that? How did how did that happen?
00:22:36
Speaker
I was just as shocked as everybody else in the room was. It was an email in my inbox letting me know that I had a ah badge to claim. And that was that. So, you know, it's it's one of those things that, again, I take seriously. And I always try and share content that is backed and personal and not fabricated, not stolen, just from and straight from the source. um So LinkedIn, right?
00:23:03
Speaker
My approach to LinkedIn is, again, very authentic and and people throw authentic around like a buzzword. But I really do share things that happen in my everyday life that happened in my own world of work journey. So I share kind of that reflective piece. And then I also share data. I share information. I share some thoughts that I have. I share things about career development, world of work, all that good stuff.
00:23:25
Speaker
I share the highs. I share the lows. I had an event in September where no one showed up. And I heard about that and I had a real moment of, do i post this? Am i risking my my reputation, my credibility, all of these things?
00:23:40
Speaker
And I shared it, and I could not have been more overwhelmed by positivity, by positive feedback, by folks sharing similar experiences, by DMs telling me, your post really helped me. It's hard to see folks fail in public, or I don't see that as often. you know Thank you so much for sharing that. And it's just always a good reminder to be fully you.
00:24:01
Speaker
Social media is a highlight reel. LinkedIn can definitely serve as a highlight reel, but I also see a lot more realness, a lot more critical perspectives, more hot takes, if you will, more commentary than we might on other socials, where imaging and video is the priority. LinkedIn, there's still a dominance in written content, more longer form writing, which I love. And that's why I prioritize LinkedIn, because I would much rather write than share some photos or a video. But
00:24:32
Speaker
um All that to say, always approach it very authentically from Ange. I do a little bit of content batching. You know, I try to curate some things, share some things, but we'll always leave space for, you know, the news article that I see that I need to comment on or actually just my post today.
00:24:51
Speaker
i saw a contact in my network share that LinkedIn has limited the personal invite option for non-premium users to only three per month.
00:25:02
Speaker
Really? it's send three personalized invites every month. Wow. You do not have a premium.
LinkedIn's Limitations
00:25:08
Speaker
Isn't that absurd? And I messaged him privately. I said, would you mind if I wrote a post about this and credited you? And he said, oh, my gosh, go for it, please. I'm like, I'm hoping that, you know, folks that I know at LinkedIn, my community manager, whomever, can see it and maybe reflect on it and think, yeah.
00:25:27
Speaker
What good are we doing by limiting people to only three personalized invites per month? And especially as a coach, when I'm telling my clients who are job searching, you know, do not spend on LinkedIn premium. That is not something I want you putting your energy toward right now.
00:25:39
Speaker
And they can't even get that much out of the basic version where we find people we need to connect with when it comes to professional and career development. So like you, Dan, I've got some beef with LinkedIn, right? It's one of those things that...
00:25:55
Speaker
unfortunately, is becoming more paywalled, more um more privileged, I guess, which feels awful. And I despise that so much. And I do hope that something changes, right? We shouldn't be limiting number of personalized connection invites to three per month, just a little over one a week, or barely one per week. And I also notice, you know, I have a premium business account because of LinkedIn. Thanks to LinkedIn, they pay for it because I'm a top voice.
00:26:26
Speaker
I get 300 characters in those little personalized invites, and folks who don't have premium get 200. It's all of these little, you know, these little choices and distinct moves that the platform is making that are going totally contrary to their vision, right, of economic opportunity and empowerment for everybody.
00:26:45
Speaker
It's a hard thing to see. And so will I continue to show up there? Always. A hundred percent. The feed is still free. If you follow me, if you're connected to me, you'll always see my content. I will never pay well content, period. and But so, you know, I will i will always keep showing up. I'll always keep advocating. And I'll always keep trying to elevate other voices that are doing similar, different, really important work for early career folks and just for the greater world of work as a whole.
00:27:13
Speaker
<unk> It's so well said. And, you know, just all of the all the good work you're doing on on that. And what I really love about what you're up to is that you're you're in it, right? you're You're out there, you're doing things, you're trying, you're failing, you're succeeding and sharing that all. And i think that it's such a distinguisher from the people who are just writing about stuff or making stuff up and... trying to say, you know, okay, i've like like I've clearly made up this story to your points or something, or like I'm sharing some kind of generic thing, or I'm sharing something that feels like overly scripted, overly written. um And there's there's some power to really just like being you and showing up in that way. And I think more people need to see what you're doing and adopt something like that for them. And it won't be the same as yours, but it'll be their version of that
00:28:03
Speaker
and I appreciate that. And there there is definitely a pretty strong community on LinkedIn that does do, you know, oh, ai regurgitated, rewritten ai responses to comments. And they're only on that platform to use third party lead generator tools to buy into their courses or join their community or what have you. And I don't engage with any of that. And I've had so many of those DMs over the years. Oh my gosh, and, you know, come work with us. Come be a part of this. Do you want to six times your monthly income? And no.
00:28:36
Speaker
No, absolutely not. If you, if you follow me, you connect with me, you are never going to get one of those, Hey, in your DMS, you know, saying I, you know, help coaches do this. Would you interested in in all that follow up? Absolutely not. That is not what I'm about. Warm outbound. If I know you, if I see you, if I see you commenting, liking, whatever, Hey, how's it going? Thanks for being here. let me know if there's anything I can do to support you.
00:28:59
Speaker
Simple as that. But yeah. And to that point about LinkedIn, You get to curate whatever you want to see. Follow those people whose ideas, whose visions, whose content niches, whose areas are inspiring to you that are going to help you. I follow so many folks who never met before, no idea who they are.
00:29:18
Speaker
i like what they share. They give me something to think about. I follow a ton of AI in the world of work content because I'm not diving into it a ton in my day-to-day. It's not my top priority, but I want to keep a finger on the pulse of what's going on. So I follow those folks who share about it.
00:29:34
Speaker
Maybe it's written with AI, I don't know, but they share about it and they'll they'll share, you know, how companies are
Curating a Meaningful LinkedIn Experience
00:29:40
Speaker
pivoting, right? Updates in the news that we need to be aware of, how early career professionals can stand out with artificial intelligence, how they can leverage those skills, how they can use them in their own career journeys. And that helps me be a better coach, right? I'm able to share from this person. I can share that person with my client. I can tell them to follow them and share where I got that info from.
00:29:59
Speaker
it's all It's all relative. It's all cyclical. um So make LinkedIn what you want it to be. It doesn't have to be, you know, this thing that gets, you know, shared on the Reddit thread or Reddit forum, LinkedIn Looters. Right? Yeah, i know it's not all that. There's there's so much on there and you get to you get to create that journey for yourself, whatever you need it to be.
00:30:21
Speaker
It's so right on. you know i think i think a big part of it is selectively ignoring the advice that says you have to do it this way because that leads to the worst kind of content. Totally. The AI comments now are just, I see them all the time and it's just, what are you doing? like i am I have so much less respect for people I see hosting those, even if otherwise i would be interested in in following them or working with them or anything like that. And it's just this like,
00:30:48
Speaker
obviously AI generated comments that doesn't add any real value to things. exhibit It's just stop, you know. It's it's I've had a few heartbreaks this year where I see an AI generated comment and then i double take and I go, I know that person.
00:31:01
Speaker
Like I've had a coffee chat with that person and I have to go, oh, no, where have we fallen? What are we doing? And, you know, for the love of the game, I get it. I mean, you're busy, you're doing whatnot, but it really does not build the community or the consistency and the dependability that you are hoping it's going to build. Just showing up for the sake of showing up.
00:31:23
Speaker
is nothing without depth, without humanity, without emotion tied to it. And folks can sniff out an AI written comment from a mile away. You're not slick. Awesome. And yeah, it's just this long term trusted relationship building is is where I want to be focusing. And it sounds like that's where you want to be focusing too. And, you know, it's not going to be the, i don't I don't get any sales from, okay, I saw this post and then I clicked buy or something. it's It's a long term game where you're you're really giving people a lot of value and building these connections. And that's where that's where good stuff comes from.
00:31:58
Speaker
Absolutely. Can we nerd out about your doctoral research? What are you researching?
PhD Research on Education and Belonging
00:32:03
Speaker
What are you learning? What's been the most surprising stuff for you? I just turned it over to you. Sure. This is something I don't share a ton about in my content. And I was reflecting on that the other day thinking, should I share more about my PhD journey? And maybe I will. so yeah so I am a PhD student. I study higher education at Boston College.
00:32:23
Speaker
And it is an incredible, incredible program. I've had the best time nerding out on a daily basis, really diving into incredible literature, incredible scholars, and working in a community of dually motivated, you know, similarly motivated people. And so, yeah, so my my research focuses on a couple of pillars, a couple areas. I can talk about each of them.
00:32:47
Speaker
The foundation of how I got into research was looking at sense of belonging in higher education. Big topic. Lots written about that. I remember my advisor going, yeah, you're going to need to kind of pin something down there because there's a lot of literature on it. But I started looking at sense of belonging via mission statement, so more of a document analysis, really looking at language at population-specific institutions. And women's colleges were the first area that I looked at that. and So I have something in publication kind of around, you know, document analysis, looking at language, looking at, you know, mission statements. And are they communicating belonging? Are they communicating value for the actual students who are attending these institutions, for the makeup that is going there?
00:33:31
Speaker
So that's my foundation, my research, sort of where it all bubbled from. okay And then, you know, going a little bit more into my program, obviously work in career services. I love career development. I love thinking about career development.
00:33:44
Speaker
I am looking at the school to work transition. So I'm thinking about how students are leaving undergrad, who are leaving community colleges, you know, two year four year degrees. How are they transitioning to the world of work?
00:33:56
Speaker
What is that process looking like? So I'm looking at a few things, right? I'm looking at monetary outcomes. We get a lot of that information from first destination surveys. But even more deeply, right, how is self-efficacy playing a role here, right? How is my personal beliefs about myself coming through or not in this transition? So I'm looking at I'm looking at that. I'm looking at intersectionality and how that is playing a role in the school to work transition. Not a lot of literature using critical perspectives or critical theories looking at the school to work transition. So that's ah a gap that I'm hoping to elevate and draw some attention to.
00:34:33
Speaker
And then I also look at federal workforce policy and connections to community colleges, connections to our higher education systems. um So right now i'm looking at the WIOA, Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act, and how, if at all, if not, it connects to community colleges and how we leverage those systems that are in place to fulfill some of these federal policy goals.
00:34:57
Speaker
So those are my research interests, mainly. I do a lot of document analysis, content analysis. I love language. I love words. And next spring, i am taking a discourse analysis class, which I am so excited about.
00:35:11
Speaker
I, you know, love elevating stories, interviews, case studies as data. So very qualitative, you know, kind of focus.
00:35:22
Speaker
And mixed methods as well, right? How can we understand... a phenomenon that we may extract from someone's personal story or personal narrative? And then is there a way to assess that on a broader, more generalizable level via a quantitative means, right? So... some kind of sequential exploratory approaches to looking at these very intricate, very specific stories, and then how can we generalize them a little bit more.
00:35:50
Speaker
Those are my research interests. Always happy to talk about them. I'm glad you asked about them. Yeah, yeah. What what are some interesting things you're learning out of these these research questions and the research that you're doing? Anything kind of surprising or anything particularly useful?
00:36:05
Speaker
Yeah, so, i mean, there's there's so much to talk about. I guess one thing that I'll focus on is with the federal workforce policy research, There often are mentioned connections to fulfilling some of those goals with the help of community colleges, but the level statewide is so disparate, right?
00:36:27
Speaker
So I'm looking at, you know, right now i'm looking at like Iowa, i'm looking at California, I'm looking at North Carolina. In North Carolina specifically, they have 58 community college systems there. Every single one has some sort of embedded WIOA program, initiative, something. It's woven into the fabric of each of those institutions. And in my state of Massachusetts, that kind of integration and connection is not present. So there's such a such a degree of variance going on. And looking at these documents, looking at how, again, it's it's document analysis, it's content analysis,
00:37:05
Speaker
looking at how policy is articulated to describe these connections, the utilization of, the presence of very, very different state to state. um And so that gets me thinking more about student experience, student outcomes, right? How does that, you know, go forward? How does that, you know...
00:37:25
Speaker
play a role here as well. So that's something that, you know, is is
Impact of Belonging on Career Development
00:37:29
Speaker
pulling out. And again, it's it's hard with research, right? Because so much of it is in progress. um But definitive conclusion-wise, you know, right, with sense of belonging, everyone needs to feel it. Everyone needs to feel a sense of belonging.
00:37:41
Speaker
How it's articulated and how it's felt looks quite different person to person, situation to situation, institution to institution. And I think our career service leaders need to be really intentional about how intersectionality, so how things like race, class, upbringing, religious beliefs, culture, all of these things, gender, sexual orientation, how those all play a very, very intricate role in career development.
00:38:07
Speaker
in positionality, in the world of work, in this transition process from college to career. There's a lot there that needs to be unpacked a little bit more for the sake of supporting the most diverse generation to date, which is Generation z So if you're a career services professional and you're saying, okay, I think i think this this sounds right on and this sounds really interesting, what what is something you could do to become more informed, become more aware of this, kind of bring this into your own
Supporting Diverse Students in Career Services
00:38:38
Speaker
practice? Yeah, well, I mean, I think it first starts with taking a look at at your own positionality, your own identity. I think a lot of times we're so caught up in our day-to-day, we don't really think about that very often. And and once you have a better understanding of yourself and your identity,
00:38:54
Speaker
Yeah, positionality, your own, you know, place in the world of work. I say place kind of broadly, right? Your specific self-reflective place, but also what the data shows us about the world of work. Like if you're a woman, you may be heavily filling a lot of entry-level to mid-level roles, but senior leadership positions may be less populated by you.
00:39:14
Speaker
Thinking about, you know, women of color, right? Let's take those two positionalities, women, women. person of color, take those together. Leadership opportunities are even less prevalent for women of color, are taking up less seats by women of color. So so throwing in all of those things and really taking a a hard look at what is my positionality? How can I better understand students? How can I ask important questions to understand their experience, to support them in a myriad of ways is really, really key.
00:39:44
Speaker
Staying up to date, staying informed, There are a lot of resources. Some of my favorites are Anthony Abraham Jack's books, The Privileged Poor, talking about first-generation college students, and then Class Dismissed. And so looking at sort of these um these different dimensions of our our identity, first-generation, person of color, but let's say i also went to an affluent high school. Like, how does how does that match up, right? and Maybe you're a more, i don't know there there's so many There's so many things there. But committing to those opportunities to learn about something you're not as familiar with or that is not a part of your own experience or identity makes you a better professional every single time. You're able to empathize. You're able to ask questions. You're able to begin to understand from the perspective of, I hear you. I see you. i will never go through this or this is not part of my journey or experience, but I understand that it's part of yours and here's how I here's how i can help you. Yeah. So getting started, right? That commitment to self-reflection, talking about it maybe with some colleagues or folks that you are comfortable with and finding a webinar to attend, finding a talk by someone who, you know, maybe doesn't look like you. Yeah.
00:40:59
Speaker
who's sharing about a topic that you've maybe heard about a hundred times, but you're going to get a new perspective. and Those are easy, small steps and big wins to to get started. Yeah.
00:41:10
Speaker
No, it's you again, really great advice on this and really practical for people to be able to to do something with there as well. And obviously a longer term reflective journey in that. On the community college thing, this is the first time i'm I'm hearing about this particular issue, honestly.
Federal Programs and Community College Support
00:41:25
Speaker
From like the student experience, let's say you're a community college student in North Carolina and you're a community college student in Massachusetts somewhere. I guess what, what does the alignment with this federal program look like for for you as a student from like the student experience? And how does that, how does that differ? How does that matter? How does that make a difference?
00:41:47
Speaker
So you are, when you're participating in a WIOA program, right, this can mean anything from displaced worker, adult, youth, veteran, are there are a few classifications and sort of program avenues that you can go through for support. So ideally you're you're accessing WIOA services, whether that is a one-stop career center in your area, some other job center or programming,
00:42:13
Speaker
That's usually going to like lead you to a community college or some kind of educational training. There may be a grant embedded in your state that is saying, you know, we need so many apprentices to support clean energy development and renewable energy in our state. We're going to fund these pathways for folks who are interested to go get that educational training at their college. So typically from the WIOA side, it's starting with Someone's unemployed, someone's displaced, someone's in need accessing those services, and then community college comes in to help support.
00:42:47
Speaker
If you are, you know, a student at a community college and that is your pathway to, you know, maybe seeing some of these WIOA services, right, maybe there's a specific... business or entrepreneurial center in your community college as a result of WIOA legislation, and that's what your state has decided to strategize and enact to support some of these goals, you get access to that too, right? You're probably on a more specific academic pathway, a degree, a plan, something that you've decided or created for yourself, but you're all working together and you're all, you know,
00:43:26
Speaker
going to classes alongside each other, maybe accessing similar services. I would hope that there's access you know across campus to to these different services, whether they are w i away you know, mandated or strategized or created or not. But those are kind of the, I'd say, two camps of of how those interact at a community college.
00:43:48
Speaker
And community colleges in general, right, we know are so strapped for services, are so strapped for support, and so WIOA Programming and policy can really help strengthen these supports that are enacted and available at community colleges for not just folks who are accessing those WIOA services, but are also part of that campus community. And when you have more integrated partnerships, right, let's say...
00:44:14
Speaker
a nonprofit and a community college and some other workforce development agency are working together and are channeling a lot of resources at a community college, that benefits everyone, right? That benefits our students, benefits our local employers, supports our local economy, supports workforce development.
00:44:31
Speaker
It's a win-win-win-win. And so that's been really fun to see in these plans, too, of how beyond the one-to-one connection, how different agencies and stakeholders are coming together to better support, you know, folks who are maybe struggling, who are unemployed, underemployed in the world of work.
00:44:50
Speaker
I'm definitely going to look more into this. Thanks for educating me those what ah at a basic level. And yeah, it's it's really, it's fascinating stuff. And again, I'm like, I'm in this world all the time and I honestly have not dug into this. I've not come across this and oh my house i love learning new things like this. This is great. have to share it with you. I'll definitely. Please do. Yeah, that'd be that'll be great. Thank you so much.
00:45:09
Speaker
On the future of higher ed questions. So this is something I know there's so much thinking about. and there's you know How does AI influence this? How does just the broader trends of, you know, is is the return on investment there for a college degree? Is that even the right way to be looking at it?
00:45:27
Speaker
All of this kind of stuff. how How do you personally see the future of higher ed shaping up?
Adapting Higher Education to Technological Changes
00:45:34
Speaker
I mean, there's a lot here, right? Let's start with higher ed really needing to take a...
00:45:45
Speaker
quicker approach to the efficiency movement, to the artificial intelligence movements and trajectories that we're seeing in the world of work. Right. Higher ed has never been known for being efficient. That's part of the antithesis of higher education as a as an institution as a whole.
00:46:05
Speaker
and remember I was actually talking about this last night in a class, right? How is higher ed responding to the innovations, the efficiencies, and the rapid changes in world of work outcomes for the student experience, right? How are we pivoting higher education curriculum, purpose, length, duration, what have you, to kind of meet the need of the moment?
00:46:28
Speaker
There's a lot of unknown there. I mean, we have our our second largest private employer in the United States, Amazon, telling folks Amazon was never designed to be an employer.
00:46:40
Speaker
And they're op you know they're they're making 75% of their workforce and their work production automated 2033.
00:46:48
Speaker
Whether we like it or not, how positive we want to be or not, these huge fundamental changes to what jobs look like and what jobs are available is coming. And higher education for students, for folks who enter it, is usually a means to job, career, upward economic mobility, more prosperity, more.
00:47:10
Speaker
It's a future thinking effort. It's a forward looking effort that folks partake in. to do something better that they couldn't have had beforehand without that college degree, right?
00:47:20
Speaker
So that leaves a lot of question. We've had a lot of discourse on what is the ah ROI of higher ed, and that is something that higher education leaders and employers together really need to think deeply about and understand that Students are taking four years, tens of thousands of dollars in loans. I mean, so much is going into it and not much is coming out of it right now.
00:47:46
Speaker
That's not specific to just some majors. It is across the board. That is alarming. That's going to cause a lot of worry for young people. And understandably so, right? You're seeing your older sibling pour their heart and energy into school and not have a job.
00:48:06
Speaker
That's hard. That's really hard. And I was saying to my my peers last night in class, I'm like, what do we do when 600,000 jobs are off the table?
00:48:16
Speaker
You know, what what do those people, what do we do? Like theres there's not there's not so much that we can do. And I don't I don't have the answers. Right. We can't shift everyone to be an automation engineer. Like that's just not that's not feasible. That's not practical. And people are trying to reimagine, you know, oh what is this new world of work looking like? I mean, we we need jobs. mean, people need to make a living. People need to work.
00:48:45
Speaker
that's something that's been true forever. So I, Dan, it's kind of a ah philosophical conundrum for me. I really don't know, but I do know that that the future of higher ed has to be very responsive, very transparent, and very realistic about how the world of work that they are sending students into is responding to education, to degrees, to experiential learning opportunities,
00:49:13
Speaker
And that is something that we're starting to see a little bit of. You know, I wouldn't be surprised if more institutions have stronger employer partnerships and pipelines that are more named and specific.
00:49:27
Speaker
I wouldn't be surprised if we see maybe some pivoting from the summer internship model to different ways to get students involved at employer partners.
00:49:39
Speaker
But on ah on a more... broader level in the years to come, i don't know. And I'm frankly a little bit nervous about it. And it's so powerful to hear this from from you, Ange, as someone on the kind of front lines of this, right, of really seeing this in a way that's that's very stark. And i think a lot of people are removed from from seeing this so clearly, but you're seeing, you know, students graduating and not having opportunity there, and that that is alarming, right? That's something that
00:50:11
Speaker
is it going to it's already already is in a lot of ways but it's going to continue to be exacerbated and i think opening that question of something has to change what do we do with this is is very very very interesting to me i think something that's going to take a lot of very smart people giving a lot of thought to over time but even ringing that alarm bell now sounds important Yeah.
Higher Education and Basic Human Needs
00:50:34
Speaker
Yeah. No, i'm I'm glad that you I'm glad that you agree. Right. It's a it's a conversation we need to start having, start thinking about, again, a little bit more realistically, a little more deeply. We're very quick to be overtly positive and praising. And don't get me wrong, like there is AI for good. I mean, there are so many wonderful things that are happening that we can be doing with this new technology and and just thinking about higher ed as an evolving system and responding to meet the moment.
00:51:04
Speaker
But it is also incredibly scary when folks don't have jobs and there is already concerns around, you know, i was thinking about this in class.
00:51:15
Speaker
Technology is evolving. Higher ed as a system is evolving. Things around us are evolving, but our needs most often remain the same. Like at a baseline, we are very concerned about affordability, food security.
00:51:27
Speaker
Can I live in a home? Do I have an income? Am I healthy? Can I get health insurance? Those things remain a need. And so how do we address those needs and make sure that those needs are met in a system and in a world that is evolving quite rapidly that may not be taking all those needs into consideration as those technologies, as those systems, as those, you know, hierarchies are are shifting. um Yeah, I was I was in a pickle in my own head last night. It was like, oh, my gosh, it's a lot. It's a lot to think about. Yeah, there's I mean, there's no easy answer on this, right? But you're I'm giving this a lot of thought now, too, and you're starting to see it show up in...
00:52:05
Speaker
our politics and and yeah in how the world is right now and all of this stuff that is easy for kind of, you know, traditional elites to say, okay, that's, you know, that's all all well and good, but that's not really the the point of higher ed. thatda And it's, you know, it's it's really showing up in a big way and it's not something that can be glossed over. And I think we're we're starting to see that and we'll only see more of that coming to fruition in the world.
00:52:30
Speaker
I hope so. I look forward to it. Those are going to be some some powerful conversations. oh Absolutely. So you mentioned a couple of great books there on intersectionality and first generation college students and all of this kind
Recommended Resources for Career Development
00:52:44
Speaker
of stuff. um Any other books that have been particularly influential on you that you recommend to others? love to just hear kind of what's on what's on your reading list and in this world of career work, all that kind of stuff.
00:52:57
Speaker
Absolutely. Yes, i you can't see them so well, but I've put a few on display. kind of Wonderful. We're here. Gork Gings, The Unspoken Rules. I know Gork personally. i think he is an absolutely incredible, intentional career coach and advocate for early career folks.
00:53:13
Speaker
His book, The Unwritten Rules, outlines just about every question you could possibly have about corporate world, world of work at large, how to show up in conversation, what it means when someone asks you to have a quick chat. I mean, literally the the basics that, oh, you know, you'd be expected to know, but maybe a first generation student has no idea, right? Or someone who's never been in that environment will just have absolutely no clue on.
00:53:40
Speaker
Gork lays it all out there in a very safe, affirming, straight to the point, very forward thinking way. So I love the unspoken rules by Gork Ng. Amazing. Yeah. I also have, you know, my good friend Mike Wysocki's book here, Behind New Careers by the People, where he interviewed a hundred professionals across a bunch of different professions and asked them questions about their career.
00:54:01
Speaker
And I think for students, I'm always telling them, have an informational interview. Like, let's conduct one of those. Let's find someone you can talk to. if you need something a little quicker at your fingertips, Careers by the People is is a really great resource. And he's coming out with a second book. So that'll be very exciting. Yeah.
00:54:17
Speaker
In general, YouConnect, which is a virtual career center platform, they have an incredible podcast. I'm not just saying that because I was a guest once, but in general, they have an awesome, awesome podcast about so many career development topics, right? From effective career center leadership to thinking about the world of work more broadly to conversations like we're having.
00:54:38
Speaker
Incredible, incredible podcast podcast. And the last one I'll talk about is the future of higher education community. FOHE, as we like to call it. FOHE is absolutely incredible. It is a community of just over 5,000 folks across ed tech. We've got some founders and entrepreneurs and higher education leaders, both on the faculty and staff admin side.
00:55:00
Speaker
Great group of people. I have never been in an active Slack community that actually stays active, but there are news and discussions. People get to ask for things that they need.
00:55:13
Speaker
People will share job opportunities. I mean, it's just, it's an incredible community. And I'm very lucky to live in Boston where there is a very active chapter, right? um it's It's just a, it's a great place to be with some very deep thinkers. And I don't often go into a room and go, wow, I don't know.
00:55:32
Speaker
anything, but I've definitely stepped into some rooms and went, wow, I have a lot to learn from these people. These minds are incredible. They're doing incredibly innovative frontline work to think about how we can leverage the future of technology, artificial intelligence to meet the needs of the world of work, to meet the needs of education, to meet the needs of the future of work. And I just love being surrounded by folks who are as dedicated to that as as we are, right? As other folks that I know are. So those are a few resources that I know and love, but there's a million out there that that you can benefit from.
00:56:07
Speaker
It's fantastic. So we'll we'll link to all of those in the show notes at ContempisLeadership.com. And you're amazing. You're up to so much good work here. And I think just getting started on some of these big, big questions. And I'm just really glad you're doing what you're doing. You're building your practice. You're leading in this space and can't wait to see what's to come.
00:56:26
Speaker
Thanks so much for for having me and engaging in these conversations with me. I don't get to nerd out over this stuff all the time. so that's like Rare, isn't it? It is rare. This was really fun. and This was so fun. So how can people follow along with you? How can they get in touch if they want to work with you or they want to learn more about what you're up to? Any of that kind of thing.
00:56:43
Speaker
Absolutely.
Contact Information and Social Media
00:56:44
Speaker
So my website, andrichard.com, you can find my services on there, see examples of events and presentations I've given and book a call with me, come chat with me. You can also follow me at early career corner on Instagram and Tik TOK.
00:56:57
Speaker
and if you search Angela Richard on LinkedIn, I should pop up. Fantastic. Well, thank you so much again, and it's been a real pleasure. Thanks for having me, Dan. Till next time. Absolutely. Bye. Bye.