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Fadi Boulos on Fighting Lebanon's Brain Drain, Building Cultures vs. Offices, and the Future of Technology
68 Plays7 months ago
Dr. Fadi Boulos, Founder and CEO of Supportful (supportful.world), joins host Dan Freehling (contempusleadership.com) to discuss Supportful's mission to combat brain drain in Lebanon by connecting international tech companies with remote Lebanese talent. Fadi discusses the historical context of Lebanon's brain drain, the importance of building a remote work culture, and the innovative strategies Supportful employs to foster team cohesion and growth. The conversation also explores the future of remote work, the impact of AI on work, and the need for an educational system that develops citizens. Fadi emphasizes the importance of empathy, transparency, and continuous learning in leadership, drawing from his diverse international experiences and personal values. Recommended reading: The Bible, “Steve Jobs” by Walter Isaacson. Show notes at forwardlookingleadership.com.
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Hosts
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to Forward-Looking Leadership, a podcast for visionary leaders building future-ready organizations. I'm your host, Dan Freeling. I'm the founder of the Co-Chicken Consulting practice, Contepus Leadership, developing the leaders and teams you want and charge through cutting-edge approaches and common sense solutions.
00:00:18
Speaker
I'm honored to be joined today by Dr. Fadi Bulos. Fadi is the founder and CEO of Supportful, a software engineering consulting firm on a mission to reduce the brain drain in his native Lebanon.
Supportful's Mission and Impact
00:00:28
Speaker
By providing international tech companies with remote talent, Fadi enables young, educated people to stay in their hometowns and contribute economically to their local community. Listeners, you're in for an inspiring conversation with a truly purpose-driven leader. Thanks for joining me on Forward-Looking Leadership, Fadi.
00:00:44
Speaker
Thank you for having me, Dan. I'm so happy to be having this conversation with you. Yeah, really appreciate you taking the time and sharing your insights, Fadi. So first, could you please share with listeners a bit more about what you're up to at Supportful? So at Supportful, we're ah on a mission, which is to reduce the brain drain in Lebanon. And we do this by working with the international tech startups. We provide them with remote engineers from our team.
00:01:11
Speaker
so who are based in Lebanon. And the idea is really for these companies to augment their teams to be able to grow while using our resources. And for us, we would be making an impact, which is to beyond keeping those engineers in Lebanon, we want to keep them in their hometowns. We want to keep them ah in their environment so they can contribute to the development of the economy in the community where they live. So we function as a no remote company and it's been three years we're doing this. We're happy with the impact we're doing and our clients are happy. It's fantastic. It's it's such important work and thanks for all you're doing and for sharing that with listeners. So for those not
00:02:02
Speaker
terribly familiar with the historical context in Lebanon. what What has been leading to the the brain drain?
Lebanon's Crisis and Brain Drain
00:02:09
Speaker
Lebanon has been experiencing brain drain for the yeah know since its modern existence in the, I would say, 19th century. But the most recently, in 2019,
00:02:22
Speaker
ah There was a big crisis, financial crisis, economic crisis, political crisis, and it was labeled by ah the World Bank as one of the worst crises to hit a country in the last 150 years.
00:02:38
Speaker
and the just to give you an indication on the scale of the crisis. So we've had triple digit inflation for three years in a row. Our currency devaluated by 98%. We had shortage in power, medicine, internet connection, and all the basic services. So it was quite a tough period. And during this time,
00:03:09
Speaker
and Lebanese and generally young educated Lebanese started leaving the country and you know because of the Lebanese diaspora and the presence of Lebanese almost everywhere in the world. So everyone has a cousin or a family um member somewhere abroad. So it's easy for them to leave the country.
00:03:33
Speaker
And this has a really ah devastating impact on the country's future. Because if you want to rebuild the country, you need the ah young, educated skills. And we're losing this. So ah I thought, I mean, I should be able to do something on my scale.
00:03:55
Speaker
And if everyone does a little bit, maybe we can tackle this problem. It's gonna still it's going to stay there, ah but at least we can you know reduce its magnitude. ah Again, just really inspiring work you're up to here, Fedi. Turning to remote work, you're a leader in the remote workspace with Supportful. And before this recording, we talked about your concept of building a culture versus building an office. Can you expand
Building Company Culture at Supportful
00:04:20
Speaker
on that idea? How do you go about growing culture in a remote organization?
00:04:24
Speaker
Yeah, usually you know in remote circles we laugh about and companies that really need an office to build a culture and those things are two separate things.
00:04:37
Speaker
so It's really yeah you know building a culture is ah instilling a mindset in the company that reflects the leadership values, that the and reflect the company's values, you know the vibes that you feel when you're in a team.
00:04:57
Speaker
And this ah should have nothing to do with whether you're working in the same office or you're working across borders. And the this is what we're trying to do at Supportful, really yeah working on reflecting the company values.
00:05:13
Speaker
in our daily work. So when we say yeah that transparency is one of our values, we walk the talk and we're transparent whenever we are dealing with our clients or with our employees. When we say it's about ownership, we make sure that everyone owns their tasks, not just ah delivers them. Same goes for ah growth. So we're very much into growth and whether at my personal level where I try to grow every day and learn. I also push the team to adopt this mindset. and
00:05:49
Speaker
ah find them opportunities for them to also grow. So it's really, I would say the culture is about ah walking the talk and making sure that the environment is really the environment that you as a as a owner of the business would like to work in. It makes so much sense. So it's about walking that talk and cultivating this culture rather than focusing on the physical office.
00:06:13
Speaker
you know The office as the office is not a need but social interaction and in-person interaction is ah appreciated and we make sure because we are a no remote company that we have social events ah more or less every quarter to make sure that People get to see each other shake hands and you know, we're all in Lebanon. It's a small country. It's easy for us to meet every now and then. So we do believe in the importance of social interaction, but it's it just doesn't have to happen in the office. It can happen anywhere. What an important point. So you you do quarterly social gatherings. What do those typically look like?
00:06:57
Speaker
So we have a ah yearly company offsite. Usually it's in Q1, so the first quarter of the year. And it's a social gathering where we spend the day together. ah We have lunch together. We have breakfast together. We have coffee together. We make sessions that mostly are adjacent to software engineering, but not really core to it.
00:07:25
Speaker
We also do sessions that are really don't that don't have anything to do ah with the business. ah Last year, we did a very interesting session that really got so much praise from the team, which was about psychology, stress, and burnout. And everyone appreciated that. So this is a yearly event. Then we have, and during our calendar year,
00:07:48
Speaker
ah depending on how ah on the on how they happen. But ah there's ah we have an annual Iftar, which is ah ah you know during Ramadan ah in Muslim countries, ah you have this tradition of people gathering around the table every every evening during the month of Ramadan. So we do it once for our Muslim team members, but we all gather around the table.
00:08:17
Speaker
ah We do a hike usually at the beginning of the summer or the end of the summer. And we do our Christmas dinner. So these are the four ah main ah activities.
Innovative Team Practices and CSR
00:08:30
Speaker
And sometimes, like last year, we participated in Tech Timeout, which is a global initiative ah for people to spend some money ah so sorry some time ah ah ah far from ah screens.
00:08:44
Speaker
So it's a time out from screens and tech. And last year, what we did, we we coupled this with the CSR action, and we went and gave a robotics course to children in a disadvantaged school. So it was also an opportunity for us to to be together.
00:09:04
Speaker
How cool to hear so this being intentional on team building on social interaction, it sounds like it's core for you. And remote is great paired with this intentionality around actual social interaction and doing that in a way that builds team and builds community and builds that giving back muscle as well.
00:09:22
Speaker
And, you know, especially in the software engineering field where, you know, this reputation for software engineers to be quite isolated, sometimes socially awkward. ah So we don't want the remote ah setting to become a place of isolation and loneliness. We want people to feel that they are part of a team.
00:09:46
Speaker
And another aspect is obviously our virtual workplace, which is Teams. And so on Teams, we try to you know ah interact as much as possible to make sure that no one feels alone at all. How do you structure that interaction on Teams? So we have multiple channels.
00:10:09
Speaker
um and some channels, you know, for work, for resources, for learning, some others, for fun events, you know, ah random stuff.
00:10:20
Speaker
And we have one channel, which is the the water cooler channel. In this channel, it's really the idea is to replicate those water cooler conversations that you get in the you get to do in the physical office, but you don't have the chance to do in the virtual office. So what we do is whenever someone gets in there, they can trigger a video call, a group video call. And whoever is available at that point, they will get a notification. And whoever is available,
00:10:50
Speaker
they might join this call. So the idea is really to replicate this random moment when you meet someone, you start chatting around the water cooler in the office. Yeah, if I may add, the just remember that there's one thing that we started recently and people are just loving it, which is a random calls. So for whenever someone joins the team,
00:11:13
Speaker
ah We plan a random call with a teammate, ah so once every month for the for the first six months. So the idea is for them to get to meet most of the team while working remotely. And the people are just loving it, both newcomers and ah current team members. That's so cool. So what's the random call idea? What does that look like?
00:11:39
Speaker
Yeah, so we suggest an agenda. So ah we say, OK, then your next random call will be with Fadi. And we propose a suggested agenda, which is a brief intro about each person, their background, their profile. Then they can get to ah the non-working aspects of themselves, let's say, what's their main hobby, ah what's their preferred the activity, how they spend their time outside of work.
00:12:16
Speaker
And then it's open. It's really open to any topic. It could be something currently happening. you know just We try to help them trigger the conversation. But most of the time, they just ah you know after they get introduced, they say, yeah, I work in this technology. They might find some common point. They might find things to debate or discuss. And then it's usually smooth. The flow is smooth.
00:12:45
Speaker
Yeah, that intentionality on team building is admirable and is something leaders should take into account with any kind of culture, but especially a remote one.
Remote Work and Flexibility
00:12:53
Speaker
So thanks for digging into that for those listening. I know there's been a huge surge in remote work during the pandemic and immediately following it. And it seems like that pendulum is kind of swinging back for a lot of the larger companies, at least here in the US. I'm not sure globally. What what do you see as the future for remote work overall? I'm pretty confident that remote work is here to stay.
00:13:15
Speaker
um Yeah, even beyond the US, you know, there has been a backlash against the remote work and what has become to be known as the RTO o mandate, the return to office mandate. ah So they are enforced everywhere. But eventually, company leaders are noticing that Okay, we can force people to come back, but this won't change the fact that first ah work was being done well, even in remote settings. And two, people are not really appreciating the lack of flexibility. So the idea is really not to be remote, but to be flexible and to allow people ah to work from there where they want. So in our case,
00:14:06
Speaker
ah We are intentional about it because we have it's part of our mission. But the idea should be for everyone you know to allow this flexibility around the location. As long as the work is properly done and people can work in an environment where they can take calls, i mean why would you want people to be sitting next to you?
00:14:31
Speaker
ah Sometimes, you know, I think about it more as failure to properly manage your team and make sure that they have the right goals and you have the right framework to make sure that these goals are met. So um globally, I would say now people are realizing that, yeah, we can't ah go back to pre pandemic and the remote work ah turned out to be ah working well. So I think with time, ah more of the hybrid policies will turn to flexible policies where people are free to come to the office or work from the location of their choice.
00:15:19
Speaker
The flexibility framing makes a lot of sense. like I tend to agree on all the counts that you've mentioned, especially with the ease of management, I think, driving a lot of this, this desire to kind of just see people and not have actually thought about what makes someone productive, what their actual goals are, what success looks like. How do you assess that?
00:15:36
Speaker
And just hiring and trusting top people, they're always going to have this option to be flexible. And it's a question of whether or not you end up being able to attract them to your firm or not. And something I've noticed is the best people have always been able to be remote or flexible in some way. And I don't i don't see that changing. Absolutely.
00:15:54
Speaker
And maybe one additional factor that companies would take into consideration from here on. you know Many of them, especially big corporate, they have these real estate assets that they need to make use of. And I think now companies will invest less and less in office space So if they keep growing, at some point they will be forced to adopt a more ah remote-friendly approach. So I think this and this is a long-term thing, but this will also play out in the future of remote work.
00:16:37
Speaker
Yeah,
Talent Acquisition and Trust Building
00:16:38
Speaker
you're so right. they're They're going to justify the investment in these assets and that would be less and less the case over time. And it just doesn't make a ton of business sense besides whatever you're making on the real estate end of things to be throwing away money on office space either. So such a, such a great point there. Yeah. So there's so much on a social good end of support full that you've gone through and is again, just so admirable beyond that, what makes these international tech companies want to work with you?
00:17:05
Speaker
um um Well, ah straightforward answer because they will get access to good talent at the cost effective price. So um what we provide is a talent pool of vetted ah software engineers who are vetted for both hard skills, so technical skills, soft skills, and culture fit.
00:17:29
Speaker
ah So this is one problem that was a big problem a couple of years ago during the pandemic. Now it's more of an employer market, so it's less of a problem. But when things pick up, hopefully in the near future, it's going to become a problem again. So talent shortage is a gap, and the we are able to bridge that gap. Another thing is companies trying you know to increase the diversity of their teams.
00:18:00
Speaker
ah This is one aspect that could help them and help us ah work together. And another factor that is non-negligible is your our cost effectiveness. So companies, let's say in the US, working with us usually see savings of more than 50% compared to in-house hiring. With the flexibility they get,
00:18:25
Speaker
to say okay guys next month we don't want to continue because this project is done or we want to allocate the resources to another project and they have this flexibility. So for all of these reasons companies ah work with us and Maybe also because we in our DNA, we're tech people, so we understand their pain points. ah We present the right candidates, even if they're not 100% fit, they are at least an 80% fit. So yeah, and our transparent approach. So when we don't have a good profile, we say we don't have a good profile for you.
00:19:09
Speaker
And when we have ah ones that are that stand out in a specific area, we will mention it. So I think for all of these reasons combined, ah companies work with the support firm. It's amazing how that trust and transparency works, isn't it? yeah You mentioned a lot of the values that you aim for at Supportful. I'd love to hear more on that type of environment you're looking to create and how this differs from more traditional firms.
00:19:36
Speaker
So I always say whatever I'm doing is the complete opposite of all the bad things I've seen in the corporate world. So i've worked I've worked in France, in the UK and in Lebanon ah for big telecom operator companies ah and for smaller companies.
00:19:59
Speaker
And all the you know and things that I didn't like in these companies, I'm doing the exact opposite to make sure that the environment is always a positive environment ah with a growth mindset.
00:20:15
Speaker
So when I say positive, it's really about avoiding the blame game. Whenever there's a problem ah or a failure, we tolerate failure as long as we draw lessons from it. It's always um an assumption of good faith and all the team.
00:20:36
Speaker
and always pushing them to do their best while making sure that no one is burned out ah or ah even that their life work, what we what I like to call ah the life work harmony is in place. So we we try to make sure that everyone is in their best ah mental and physical state And that work does not affect ah that at all. Such important points on pulling from all the negative lessons and from your international experience too.
Work-Life Harmony and Employee Growth
00:21:12
Speaker
For those who aren't familiar with this life work harmony concept, could you explain what you mean by that? Yeah, so, you know, in the corporate world, it's work-life balance.
00:21:23
Speaker
And so um my first thoughts on this was that it should be life work balance, because life comes before work, and that's more important. And work should be part of your life, but life should be the the ultimate objective. So to have a sane and enjoyable life. So this so this was my ah the first evolution, so life work balance. And then I thought,
00:21:52
Speaker
Balancing is between two things that are maybe on the opposite, maybe quite different. um I know that you shouldn't assimilate work to life or life to work, but it should be ah as much as possible in harmony. And you know that people who work in the field of their passion, they excel the most.
00:22:19
Speaker
So even if we are not there yet for old people, as long as you're making sure that Whatever lessons, let's say, yeah ah you draw in your life, you apply at work, and vice ver versa, I think you can get to that harmony and avoid those you know Sunday blues moments. Or is it Monday blues? I don't know. That's great. I don't think I've heard the switch of the life and work, and that's something I'm i'm definitely going to take forward from you.
00:22:54
Speaker
And you're you're so right on all this that ah people thrive when they're doing work that they're really made for and that they're able to bring their full skill sets toward. And on the skill set front, how how do you approach staff growth and development? Okay. So yeah, this is an area.
00:23:11
Speaker
I like to elaborate on because we're doing this ah collaboratively. So as I told you, growth is one of our values. And for us, for us you should grow in a way that the helps you personally as a person and not only the company. So the idea is ah for every person in the company ah we sponsor fifty hours up to 50 hours of up-skinning and training every year. so This training or up-skinning program is decided collaboratively with the person, with the employee. so We sit together and we say, okay, so you're very good and in this area, but you lack some skills in this area. and This is, let's say, a technical thing. Or you're very good technically and
00:24:03
Speaker
You should be able to lead a team now. So let's invest in a soft skills training. The idea is really to prepare the person for the next step in their career. And so that's how we we prepare the training together. And then and they start taking the training.
00:24:23
Speaker
And when they're done, they get a bonus for ah completing the training. So in this case, it's a something that will be much of use to them and hopefully to the company too. So we're quite ah strict when it comes to training because we want everyone to stay on a growth path and ah Yeah, I think we, and one more thing, we're not limiting ourselves to a specific platform. So the training can be, can consist of multiple courses from different platforms. huh We don't mind at all. The objective is really to ah spend the time and learning and learning new stuff and eventually applying these in the next step in a career.
00:25:14
Speaker
It's a refreshing perspective on staff growth and development of it being not just for the immediate benefit of the org, but for this broader perspective of developing staff as people and in their interest areas to keep them on a growth path. ah Growth as a corporate value is kind of unusual. How did you come about that?
00:25:32
Speaker
I think it reflects some of my personal values. ah And i I've always believed in this French saying, ah so kuhem wambat shakswair and that which literally means ah to sleep a little less dumber every night. And the idea is to keep on learning every day. So yeah, I make it a point ah to learn about anything, really it can be anything, every day.
00:26:06
Speaker
ah so ah I read a lot. I yeah i watch ah interesting ah and educational videos. So I think it's a personal trait. And i I think it's good when it's applied the to a team, because ah especially especially in in our field, where you know if you don't know a technology Today, you might be fine, but tomorrow, you might be dead. So ah it is a must for us to keep learning, especially you know now with AI and everything around it. it's becoming i mean some Some things might become more or less ah obsolete in a couple of years. So it is a must for us. We have to always progress.
00:27:01
Speaker
And the so yeah, I think this ah ah coupling between my personal take on it and its need in our industry ah pushed me to to implement it and make sure that it's one of you know our focus areas at work. It makes so much sense and just a great saying and another one I'll be putting in my pocket.
00:27:28
Speaker
in French or in English? Well, unfortunately it did unfortunately in English for me. I wish I had this command of multiple languages like you. ah But alas, ah the this ah growth of staff being important for the constantly evolving tech landscape too, I think that's something that gets overlooked a lot of the time. But learning how to learn is so key for people in fast moving fields and Now the tech is increasingly impacting not just straight up technology people, but across industries. I think it's something that a lot of executives need to take into account as they look at their values as an organization and how they invest in training and development. Absolutely. Which books or other resources of any kind have been most influential on you as a leader, Fadi?
Personal Influences and AI's Future
00:28:12
Speaker
um I wouldn't say there's a ah bunch of, you know, defined books or resources. What I can think of is I'd say as a leader, you know, I have ah some aspects of empathy in my leadership.
00:28:34
Speaker
And I think I would trace this back to my Christian upgro upbringing. So I'd say yeah the Bible influenced some of the many of my traits as a leader. um And the you know I try to stay up to date with whatever is happening in the tech world, in the business world, even in the world politically.
00:29:04
Speaker
So um these, I think, helped me have ah more or less a holistic view when when I approached things.
00:29:16
Speaker
um I would say two business leaders who influenced me, you know each in one aspect. So ah Steve Jobs, you know as the visionary person, I have always seen myself as a tactical person.
00:29:33
Speaker
And the since I watched the movie about Steve Jobs, it's really about, you know, having this vision and making sure that ah you implement it and that every action falls under and for this vision. So yeah, I would say Steve Jobs for this aspect and obviously Warren Buffett for You know, the frugal ah ah way of living for the philanthropy part, giving back whenever you can. I mean, if he pledged to give 95% of his wealth, I mean, it can probably do with one or 2%. So yeah, when I think about those who influenced me, I would think of these two people.
00:30:27
Speaker
Yeah, the vision of Steve Jobs and the wisdom of Warren Buffett is a good place to get started for sure. So very interesting on your Christian upbringing and the Bible being an influence on your leadership. How do you see these really impacting you as a leader? I think it's mostly, you know, the empathy and the really trying to see myself in in someone else's shoes and being ah easily able to do it and the other thing is you know the collective good working for the for a collective good so even ah if something
00:31:11
Speaker
doesn't is not beneficial to me directly, but could be good for the group. It's something that we should ah favor while making sure that everyone is respected in, in their own, you know, character and person. I'd say yeah, in this aspect.
00:31:30
Speaker
The values and action are really coming through in everything you're doing, and it's just great to see. and you know It's not just making money at all costs, but let's run a successful business, let's make money along the way, and let's support a collective good. and It's something that doesn't have to be distinct and separate, but to the life or a Carmody point, it can all be part of that same harmonious cycle.
00:31:50
Speaker
Exactly. So you mentioned AI as well and all these other tech advancements coming up. What's your read on the future of technology, AI, any of that kind of thing? Well, we're living in interesting times. Although sometimes, that you know, I say everyone lived in interesting times. It's really about how you see them. um Anyway, in terms of AI, yeah, this is one big revolution. And It's going to change, at least at the beginning, many, many of the ah you know mundane tasks that we do. And this would be the first ah area where AI will help people. So increasing productivity, and I'm i'm sure
00:32:39
Speaker
many people Many listeners are already using AI to summarize their texts or to give them a starting point when coming up with with a new idea or when generating content. So I think these will become a no-brainer in the next few years, while AI might be able to tackle a more ah ah complicated process.
00:33:05
Speaker
and It's becoming now commonly called the agentic revolution. So you know these AI agents that would work in Cascade, and they would create a chain of actions. So let's say you start off with saying, I want to attend a technological conference in the US in Q2 2025. So AI would go and fetch you a list.
00:33:35
Speaker
of relevant conferences. And if you say, OK, I want to attend this one. So AI would go and book you a ticket and then book the flight and the accommodation and get you everything done. So this kind of revolution is coming soon because it's ah very determined and it's easy for AI not to miss anything if you say, OK, I want to fly ah during that week.
00:34:04
Speaker
And let's say yeah a direct flight. And I want to stay in a four-star hotel with at least 4.5 over 5 reviews a rating on Google. So these are quite deterministic actions where AI cannot go wrong. Because the till now, the problem with AI, and when we say AI, it's really LLMs, large language models, like Chagipiti.
00:34:33
Speaker
So the thing is their hallucination. And so the more secure they become, the more guaranteed the outcome, the more usable they will become, and the more impactful. So I would see this as the next revolution in the coming years. And obviously, people using AI will replace people not using AI.
00:34:56
Speaker
So until AI becomes good enough to replace some jobs, which is something to expect in the next seven to nine to ten years.
00:35:09
Speaker
Yeah, so until then it's using it in this agentic way to drastically increase your own productivity to take a lot of that rote busy work or admin work off your plate to let you be much more productive. What do you think it would look like? And you said seven to 10 years to really start replacing jobs. What's your best guess of what that could actually look like? I think, you know, like, uh,
00:35:33
Speaker
mundane tasks. I would say those who are really about, let's say, taking notes or secretarial work, this could be the first area that could be impacted. um For design and creativity, although i I still don't see it happening now, but it might become so good at creating things,
00:36:02
Speaker
that, you know, and it will be trained on a specific person's style, and then content creation will become very, very fast. And you would write an article based on predefined ideas and your unique style, and it will write it in a minute or two. So this could be an area.
00:36:28
Speaker
um while And you know the part about summary summarizing text, documents, articles, while I think it's ah straightforward and it's already happening, i have ah I'm a bit skeptical about the impact of this and ah you know this task being handled by AI because Whenever you want to grasp a concept and you read a paper, when you start summarizing it yourself and writing down your notes, this would this is a crucial part of the learning process for human beings. So if AI is doing this, I'm a bit worried that our structural thinking might be impacted. you know This is ah something that
00:37:22
Speaker
I didn't find many people talking about. I'm not sure if it's a lack of research on my end. I should probably dig further. But I i mean, in my readings, when I read, I usually take notes. So the idea is really to summarize things and learn them. And if AI will be doing this job, so yeah, I don't know how this will impact our learning process.
00:37:52
Speaker
It's such a good point and not something I had fully thought through in that way, but it sounds right that you're losing something. If you get everything spoon fed to you as a summary and there's value in the way that you're thinking about things, the way that you're learning things, especially as technology continues to shift to your previous point on growth and employee development, is learning how to learn as important as getting the content or even more important than getting the content? Yeah. So, I mean, ultimately,
00:38:20
Speaker
this agentic revolution will lead to somewhere, and this is quite philosophical, by the way, ah where we won't have anything to do. but Let's say in 100 years, you ask ah an AI agent to solve a big problem on its own, and it's able to do so. So what is left for you to do? But this is, you know, in the long future.
00:38:52
Speaker
ah I don't know, it, you know, it raises questions about the meaning of life, then when someone can do anything on your behalf.
00:39:04
Speaker
Yeah, what is life in abundance and what is life in a world of not needing to work? It's a really interesting question and I think you write a philosophical one as well. Yeah. And it's important. i but but Almost all of us don't have that luxury now and beyond needing to work to survive or for sustenance or for something to do during the day, what what is work about, what is life about? Yeah.
Leadership Traits and Education Reform
00:39:28
Speaker
So you've lived and worked in various countries and cultures and in different languages and all of that. How has this international and cross-cultural exposure impacted you as a person and as a leader? I think ah it gave me every country, every culture gave me ah some of my current traits. So I'd say obviously the biggest influence is my Lebanese culture, which is, I was born and raised in Lebanon. I spent most of my life in this country. I only this spent 80 years abroad, mostly in France and almost half a year in the UK and England. So yeah,
00:40:16
Speaker
yeah I think, ah As a Mediterranean culture, you know we are very welcoming. We are very helpful. and But sometimes we lack rigor and discipline. ah And I'm sure if you've if you've ever driven in Rome or in Marseille, in France, I mean, you can see the difference between driving there and in any ah other Western city.
00:40:46
Speaker
so ah Yeah, this lack of discipline and rigor was compensated by ah the French part, which is very, you know, and the in corporate France, it's all about processes, you know, French bureaucracy is is famed the for a reason, and ah it's it's probably its roots are in this ah idea of organizing everything, at least trying to organize, even if it doesn't work, trying to organize, trying to put in place processes. So I think these helped
00:41:22
Speaker
the shape my more disciplined and structured aspects. um And what I really liked in the UK is really this entrepreneurial spirit, this ah you know legacy in doing business, creating value,
00:41:45
Speaker
um And I think, yeah, all of these, I mean, my current and personality has some parts um that are taken from each of these cultures. It's a fascinating assessment and you can really see it all coming together for you as a leader and for support for what was an organization.
00:42:11
Speaker
You also have high levels of education, PhD, and you grew up in Lebanon as well. So knowing all you know now with all your education experience, with all your executive experience, if you could redesign the education system, particularly in Lebanon, but also open to university and postgraduate education as well, what changes would you make based on what you know now? now oh umm I'm not going to go into a rant on the education system because you're you're welcome to. I'm going to try to you know sum it up because currently the education system is so outdated and the one indicator that is known to everyone makes it really clear. so
00:42:54
Speaker
you You leave ah ah the K-12 system, you graduate and you go to college and you look back and you say, my God, why did I learn all of this if it's not useful at all during my college years? Then You leave college, you graduate, and you go enjoy the real world. And then in your colleagues at the office tell you, yeah, whatever you learned at college, just drop it. You'll learn something new here. So we invest almost 20 years of our lives in an education system that is not giving you any tangible value.
00:43:36
Speaker
So I know that it's good to to be enrolled in a system where ah you know you get used to the discipline, to doing homeworks, to learning. But it can be much better for this amount of time and money invested. And the so whether in lebanon leban is Lebanon's education system is modeled after the French one,
00:44:02
Speaker
but with you know some delays or whatever is being done in Lebanon, was done probably in France 10 years ago. So I think we need more to be modeled around the the Nordic system. So let's say the Finnish system, which is one of the best in the world. ah I think ah And I see it with my kids, you know, it's ah more important to focus on ah teaching them how the food they eat arrives on the table, how ah they should think about money, how they should think about the world and the environment. ah To be more taught the principles of critical thinking
00:44:56
Speaker
ah to be more ah you know aware of how to deal with people. ah So, so many aspects that I think are overlooked and yeah we need we have so much work to do in Lebanon around this. I think it's a worldwide thing, but ah the challenges here are clear and we need to distance ourselves from the traditional educational system.
00:45:26
Speaker
It's interesting that you don't go toward making it very vocational either because I think when sometimes when people have criticism of education they go toward it should be a job training program basically. I'd like that you go toward impact in the world, critical thinking, financial literacy, all of this kind of stuff. but Maybe because you know although I agree with you know making it more vocational but for me education and the educational system should be more about raising citizens.
00:45:57
Speaker
Not only, I mean, training people to become good workers. I mean, this is good. But beyond this, it should be really about citizenship belonging to this world and making it a better world. So well said. I think you're spot on, and hopefully we can see things evolve in that direction. Fadi, this has been so fantastic to be able to talk with you, to learn from your experiences and your expertise.
Contact Information for Dr. Fadi Bulos
00:46:21
Speaker
How can listeners learn more about you, about support folks, follow along, and get in touch if they'd like?
00:46:26
Speaker
First off, thank you, Dan, for giving me the opportunity to have this great conversation, ah touching base on, you know, many many, many things. So in terms of contact, I'm available on LinkedIn. Fadi Bhura is my first name. Our company website, www.supportful.org.
00:46:49
Speaker
and our company page on LinkedIn too. So these are the most ah straightforward channels. And yeah, I'm always ah available via e email, Fadi, F-A-D-I, at supportful.world. Wonderful. we'll We'll put those links in the show notes. And thank you so much again, Fadi. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you again, Dan. I wish you all the best.
00:47:14
Speaker
Thanks to everyone listening, so if you got something out of this episode, if you could please share it with a friend or a colleague and take a second to leave a quick review, even just the stars is great on whichever podcast app you're using goes a long way in helping others to find the show. If you liked this episode, check out some of our previous ones on all things leadership, organizational culture, and career development with real deal executives and experts I respect and trust.
00:47:36
Speaker
Here's a clip from a recent episode with Carrie Ann King, the founder and CEO of Illuminate Labs, a software development company dedicated to building solutions that put people on their well-being first. Give it a listen to learn about reimagining productivity, culture lessons from Google, leading global teams, and so much more, and share it with someone who would find it useful. Sometimes when I'm mentoring people and about learning how to be a leader, I say, go take a dance class, go go to a salsa class, and lead and follow in that class.
00:48:06
Speaker
Because if you have to follow, you have to listen. If you're going to do what you're being asked to do correctly, you have to listen to the person you're dancing with. Otherwise it doesn't work. And then if you lead, take the role of the leader, you suddenly realize you are responsible for communicating clearly and accurately what needs to happen next to the person you're dancing with.
00:48:35
Speaker
It's just it's such an incredible lesson in that give and take. And that's been incredibly influential to me as both a leader and frankly, as a follower also. You know, I think you learn and being in a band, right? Like what's a better example of having to learn how to cooperate than being in a band. So I feel like arts, arts need to get out there more in the business world and say, we've got something to tell you, to teach you in the business community.