Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to CCDA's Mental Health Awareness Month Special Edition Podcast.
Speaker: In May each year, CCDA hosts Mental Health Awareness Month to provide an opportunity for awareness and learning at the intersection of faith and mental health.
Speaker: We hold space from deepening our understanding, conversations, and engagement with the CCDA community with lived-experienced mental health survivors, licensed professionals, and CCD practitioners.
Speaker: Our CCDA Behavioral Health Affinity Network teaches how incorporating CCD holistic approaches to mental health can restore and transform community life and ministry.
Speaker: Check out more at ccda.org slash behavioral health for more information.
Speaker: Today, the co-leader for CCDA's Behavioral Health Affinity Network, Lyndall Bedford, explores how CCD practitioners are incorporating mental health practices into their organizations and contexts.
Speaker: Lyndall is a professor and licensed clinical social worker in Central Florida.
Speaker: First, you'll hear him speak with Dr. Jeff Biddle and Teran Rush, founders of Midian Leadership Project from Charleston, West Virginia.
Speaker: His second conversation is with Stephanie Ann Vanderlucht from Kinship Plot in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Speaker: Have a great mental health month.
Speaker: Ian, thank you guys so much for coming on.
Speaker: Really appreciate you guys doing this.
Speaker: So why don't you guys tell us first a little bit about your organization and what you guys do.
Speaker: Love to hear more about just kind of the work that you all are doing.
Speaker: So the Midian Leadership Project, our main focus is to build the community using holistic leadership and educational, also while using sports.
Speaker: So it's like
Speaker: We got coaches that connect to the local sports teams and we work with them hand-to-hand and help them out and help them build leaders so we can keep building a cycle.
Speaker: The thing about the Medium Leadership Project is that everyone is hands-on with the sport teams and is working in the building.
Speaker: They're from the community.
Speaker: So all the kids that we deal with on a day-to-day basis, we understand the circumstances they're coming from and what they got to deal with outside of school and deal with the home life and
Speaker: how they, how they is growing up in the neighborhood and things like that.
Speaker: So the relationship, each of it is the most important because we build a relationship with the youth and the young adults and they're able to come here and get the resources that they need to be successful.
Speaker: Whether that's in our sports or whether that's in their coming to get better in tutoring for the education, whether it's coming to Bible study, whatever it may be.
Speaker: So the relationship piece of it all is the most important thing that we use for the foundation of the Media Leadership Project.
Speaker: So how did you guys get started?
Speaker: How did the organization come to be?
Speaker: So it's very interesting.
Speaker: So growing up, I met Jeff through Bible study when I was around 11, 12 years old.
Speaker: And we also went through an after school program called Emanuel.
Speaker: So we knew when we was playing sports and we had practice and things of that nature, we didn't have nowhere to go to get like tutoring or have Wi-Fi access after our extracurricular activity was over because it usually be like 7, 30, 8 o'clock by time.
Speaker: we would need to have the resources and get help with homework and things like that.
Speaker: So we knew that for the kids at sixth grade and up to young adulthood to age 25, we needed somewhere in our community to where they can still go be a part of extracurricular activities and after that can still come somewhere and have a home to have the resources like getting tutoring and
Speaker: using a facility for Wi-Fi, or coming somewhere safe, you know?
Speaker: So we knew, like, after sixth grade, it was nowhere for sixth graders enough to go to.
Speaker: So we knew that it was important to have something like that in our community.
Speaker: So a lot of the guys went to college and went away for a couple years.
Speaker: And Biddle and we had two guys, Tyrell and Terry, they came to Biddle and said, we need to hurry up and get a spot.
Speaker: Because there w as a lot of crazy stuff going on in the community, and we knew that we was going to be the ones to
Speaker: you know, have to make this community better for that specific age group.
Speaker: So they did all the work trying to find the building.
Speaker: They went meeting after meeting, search after search, search after search.
Speaker: And they finally, we were blessed by the Lord to have this location we're at right now.
Speaker: So during my time when I was at Eastern Michigan, me and Biddle would have a lot of phone calls, a lot of Zoom meetings and stuff like that.
Speaker: Biddle would come up there, do interview me and stuff like that.
Speaker: So it was years prior to work, but
Speaker: it definitely like means a lot to, you know, have a place like this.
Speaker: So, but that's, that was the process of why it was important to have a building like this in our community.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: That's all.
Speaker: That's amazing.
Speaker: And how, how long have you guys been doing the work so far?
Speaker: So the building was open a year when I had my last for college.
Speaker: The building was open to the community for a year, but it wasn't renovated yet.
Speaker: So since the renovations, we've been open two years.
Speaker: So three years in total, but two years where it was like full access to the community and for the kids.
Speaker: So these last two years, we had a gym in here, computer lab, training facilities, library, hangout areas, social areas for the kids, couch space and stuff like that.
Speaker: And it really has been a blessing, you know, just for me, like specifically, because I grew up here and like growing up, we didn't have nothing like this.
Speaker: Like we was blessed to have what we had in the after school programs that we had access to.
Speaker: But having something like this where you can just feel free
Speaker: feel like you love, you're safe and be whatever you want to be and be able to look at someone in your community that you look like that understands you to reach out for help and knowing that you've got the support that you need to be successful every day.
Speaker: And we open to 8 o'clock.
Speaker: So you can come back after your extracurricular activities and still be able to get the help you need.
Speaker: So we have been beneficial to a lot of the people in the community.
Speaker: I'm just trying to do the Lord's word.
Speaker: That's really...
Speaker: what it boils down to.
Speaker: It's like you guys are really doing great work in the community.
Speaker: And honestly, thank the Lord for you guys for what you're doing.
Speaker: So as we kind of talk a little bit more about kind of some of the mental health pieces, we know that mental health, of course, is affecting communities in different ways.
Speaker: So I kind of wanted to touch on and ask you guys, you know, how is it mental health is kind of affecting your community and maybe some of the work that you guys are doing kind of on a daily basis?
Speaker: What are things that you're noticing?
Speaker: from community members?
Speaker: And are there resources that are available from either from your organization or people you partner with that's helping community members with their mental health?
Speaker: Well, back in 2019, when COVID first started, I think the whole world didn't understand how important mental health was until everything came to an instant stop and you couldn't really live like live how we used to live.
Speaker: So during that time, everyone's mental health
Speaker: was on a decline.
Speaker: You know, it was just something new, something hard to be a part of and to be like living like that.
Speaker: And we was not used to living like that.
Speaker: So our community was definitely, the world was affected, but speaking for our community was definitely affected by it deeply.
Speaker: And I think having something like this as far as the mental health things,
Speaker: Just having an area to be safe and, you know, just calm and chill.
Speaker: Like, it's good for the kids mental, especially when they on an uprise with COVID.
Speaker: Like, a lot of those kids during COVID wasn't going to school every day, wasn't getting the resources they need, wasn't able to get the proper nutrition in their household.
Speaker: Like, so a lot of these kids is just running on survival mode.
Speaker: But these last couple of years, especially seeing them come through the building, you just you can just see the spark and the light now because they have something to be proud of.
Speaker: Because.
Speaker: We may have did the hard work, like getting all this stuff and getting renovations and going to me as a fundraiser.
Speaker: But it's really like.
Speaker: This is literally there's the youth.
Speaker: So like the mental health for the youth and the young adults.
Speaker: have been helping their mental health a lot.
Speaker: Just having as simple as just having a safe place to be away from all the craziness from the world, you know?
Speaker: So like, yeah, that's just the one, that's one aspect of it from my perspective.
Speaker: Well, and one of the things that, one of the things that has been a key value for our organization is learning how to make the best use of
Speaker: of the way that sports has a positive impact on young people's mental health.
Speaker: A lot of the research is really putting into scientific terms things that we might have known instinctively.
Speaker: I think that for 75 years or more, people understood that football players were doing something that helped them develop leadership skills, that they were doing something that helped them deal with their anger issues.
Speaker: But we have a lot better vocabulary now for what is happening in terms of trauma healing in athletics.
Speaker: And there's something really cool going on in the brain where your hippocampus is your learning center.
Speaker: And when you're triggered by, you know, the memory of trauma,
Speaker: Learning center shuts down and you go into survival mode, as Turan described.
Speaker: And we had so much survival mode over the last few years.
Speaker: But the thing is that the hippocampus is turned back on by muscle memory.
Speaker: And so this idea that when I'm playing sports, I'm more free to learn.
Speaker: This idea that when I'm playing sports, I'm able to be courageous in a different way.
Speaker: It has this scientific basis that we've been able to put our finger on.
Speaker: And the other thing about sports is it simulates a traumatic environment, but it's not actually unsafe.
Speaker: And so, you know, you're crashing into people, you're in competition with people, you're making last minute judgments about how you're going to make it or not make it across, you know, the line of scrimmage or make it to the basket.
Speaker: And you're simulating something that challenges you and turning your learning center back on so that you can rewire your response to things that you find stressful and traumatic.
Speaker: And so that's been a huge part of the work we've done.
Speaker: And we've been really happy to partner with the Up To Us Sports Network, which both does research and then places, many of our coaches are placed by the Up To Us Sports.
Speaker: We recruit them from our own community, but then they're trained and placed back with us, so to speak, by the Up To Us Sports Network, which does a lot of research and training about how to use sports for trauma healing.
Speaker: And an element of that that
Speaker: I've really been able to learn a lot from Tren about is educational trauma.
Speaker: We found the idea that, you know, we all kind of know in CCD work about savior complexes and people who believe they have the solution for the whole community, but there is an educational savior complex, so to speak.
Speaker: The idea that school is the answer, that school is going to change everything.
Speaker: And we have seen, especially with the schools here, it is hard to get educational institutions to see
Speaker: when they are inflicting the trauma rather than healing it.
Speaker: And there's this whole concept that, oh, childhood trauma, these kids have bad home lives and we, the school, are going to do something trauma-informed to save them.
Speaker: But that really projects all of the problem back onto the student and their family and almost demonizes the community in the process when oftentimes with issues related to what we might call the school-to-prison pipeline, it's the educational institution itself.
Speaker: that is inflicting that trauma.
Speaker: It's the educational institution itself that is making the kid feel unsafe and exposed to danger.
Speaker: It's the educational institution itself that is not recognizing leadership potential, but instead is punishing the sort of things that would lead to leadership and transformation.
Speaker: And so a lot of what we've seen is that athletics is an area that can heal that.
Speaker: And so with the COVID and the closures and everything on top of the educational trauma already experienced by a lot of urban students, we've been able to latch onto athletics as an area of leadership development and specifically trauma healing for those impacted by the school to prison pipeline.
Speaker: And I learned a lot of what I know about that from Teran and kind of his experiences.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, um, Biddle speaking on our sports can help trauma.
Speaker: Playing football, to me, was my coping mechanism.
Speaker: Even when he talked about the school-to-prison pipeline, luckily I wasn't affected personally.
Speaker: My friends have benefited from that.
Speaker: The school putting a trauma on the kid.
Speaker: They don't really get to build a relationship with the kid.
Speaker: It's all off the judgment of who they are, what community they come from, how they look.
Speaker: Stuff like that, you know?
Speaker: So, but when you play sports, all that stuff go away because like you just feel free.
Speaker: You know, you can, like you can play with your teammates, you run in tackling, you get excited when your teammates score touchdowns, you might fall, get hurt.
Speaker: You got someone that can pick you up and cheer you on when you not in the mood or you feeling a little sore.
Speaker: So like all those things that life that you can learn from like a therapist and stuff like that, sports does that.
Speaker: Like,
Speaker: And this organically happens because I can trust my brother to do his job so we can score touchdowns.
Speaker: I can trust my brother to block his man so I can go make the tackle or whatever.
Speaker: So it's all them components you can get from life.
Speaker: When you play sports, you can get the same thing.
Speaker: And like Jeff said, we put our finger on the research of like, wow, we can heal trauma while playing sports because how the brain can be worse.
Speaker: And if sports aren't so much for me and my friends, like, so that's another thing too.
Speaker: Like we give the kids opportunity to come here, play sports, build bonds, build relationships so they can be tight knitted and they can get that love and get that honor and, and get and build their dignity back up from playing sports because they know when they surrounded by our
Speaker: the team, the love, the community of sports, they feel love.
Speaker: Even if the school system is not handling them correct like they should, but they know when they can come here and play sports and get the love from their friends in the community, the leaders in the community, things of their nature.
Speaker: But yeah, so that's how important sports is.
Speaker: And that's like, it definitely can heal trauma because it healed a lot of my trauma.
Speaker: Being around loved ones, like in
Speaker: I didn't understand it until I got away from it.
Speaker: Like practice just feel like practice until you go and do something.
Speaker: And then you get to be around the people that you really love, the people that's blood, sweat, and tears every day, that's working hard with you, that's trying to reach a goal with you, that's, you know, trying to obtain the same lifestyle as you.
Speaker: So, like, the whole time you think, like, wow, I'm really happy.
Speaker: I feel accomplished.
Speaker: But your brain is, like, doing, is chemically working like that because that sports is healing all those traumas you've been through.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Same thing, pass me a basketball, then I pass it to my other teammate and he hits a three-pointer.
Speaker: We all going to celebrate together because it's like family bond.
Speaker: I'm proud to see my family member, my teammate do well.
Speaker: When I do well, people congratulate me.
Speaker: When I don't do well, people let me know, but they also build me back up, restore me.
Speaker: from my action that I didn't do good.
Speaker: So things like that, like the restorative part is not in the school system.
Speaker: It's specifically around here in our community.
Speaker: So you try to do stuff more restorative based, trying to help the individual learn from their mistakes and get better from the mistakes instead of being punitive and disciplined.
Speaker: Like, they just a kid.
Speaker: They're learning who they are, what they want to be.
Speaker: Like, who are they to this world?
Speaker: So, like, we take that away from them when we, it's all discipline, all opinion.
Speaker: It's like, oh, you made one mistake.
Speaker: I'm going to send you away.
Speaker: I'm going to kick you out of school.
Speaker: Now, all that trauma, you know, and that's the thing.
Speaker: Like, it seems like it don't happen, but it really does happen, like, worldwide.
Speaker: The school to prison pipeline is, like, the real thing.
Speaker: But when you, you don't really understand it until you see someone that you love, go do it.
Speaker: And that's the thing we're trying to break farther in the medium, the medium industry project too.
Speaker: We're trying to limit the sport and prison pipeline.
Speaker: That's like another big bang when we try to do it.
Speaker: No, that's great.
Speaker: And of course, thank you so much for sharing that part of your story.
Speaker: One of the things that we're talking about, too, and I think you guys kind of made a good point as you guys are talking about it is so we're really trying to focus a lot on kind of a holistic approach when it comes to mental health.
Speaker: So we talk a lot about kind of some of those community aspects.
Speaker: We talk about the physical.
Speaker: We talk about the spiritual.
Speaker: We talk about the emotional.
Speaker: And kind of how all of those bridge together in order to help an individual.
Speaker: You know, we don't want to just kind of focus on one aspect.
Speaker: And it seems like what you guys do at Midian Leadership, you guys kind of encompass all that within your community.
Speaker: So that's really great.
Speaker: And it's like I said, it's really exciting to kind of hear you guys talk about it and talking about even some of those trauma healing aspects of it, because like you guys said, it really is important.
Speaker: And the fact that you guys are using sports to help heal the trauma from a lot of the youth, a lot of your community members, it's just great.
Speaker: What are some things that you guys have kind of seen that God's been doing through your organization that was kind of just unexpected?
Speaker: You know, what are what are some of the kind of those unexpected things that you're seeing?
Speaker: That's a great question.
Speaker: So recently, the last couple of months with the nonprofit world is where you got to be careful as far as bringing religious stuff into it, because, you know, especially people that's getting money.
Speaker: But we know like all this was not possible for what the Lord's word like.
Speaker: The Lord will be blessed us with all this stuff that we have now.
Speaker: So we knew there was no running from that.
Speaker: So we made a decision, like, we're going to incorporate the Lord.
Speaker: We wouldn't have this.
Speaker: This is literally all his work.
Speaker: He just used us to do his work.
Speaker: So we incorporated Bible study on Wednesday, and we didn't see, when we first started the Medium Leadership Project, like, Bible study on Wednesdays wasn't a thing.
Speaker: Like, that way, we were just like, we're going to open up.
Speaker: I'd be a resource center for the community and things in Red Nation.
Speaker: But the last couple months, man,
Speaker: A girl named Caroline, Jeff, Steve Brown, me, and a couple other guys have been helped organize in the Bible study on Wednesday.
Speaker: And a lot of the kids that come here just to chill and hang literally stays for Bible study.
Speaker: So that's like when you think of all the hard work and all the meetings and the
Speaker: renovations and doing all this, like, it really was worth it, like, to have a 35-minute Bible study on Wednesday, but that's how we're reaching the kids through meeting and letting them come here, feel home, and then they come into Bible study and learning about Jesus Christ.
Speaker: Like, that is the ultimate, you know, success story.
Speaker: Like, we didn't see this being, like, a religion thing, but, like, really, it is.
Speaker: Like, this is, God used this to bring people to his kingdom, and I think, like,
Speaker: I know that like this is what it's for.
Speaker: So we've been trying to push more towards like bringing people closer to Jesus, using the nonprofit, focusing on that.
Speaker: So it's been definitely been on the uplands.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: So what, so overall with the organization, so what are some of the different elements?
Speaker: So if people wanted to kind of learn more about what you guys do, first off, is there a way that they could, do you all have a website that they could go on to communicate with you guys, get in contact with you?
Speaker: How are ways that people can kind of connect to hear more about the work that you're doing?
Speaker: So we do have a website.
Speaker: If you type in Indian Leadership Project, it's the first thing that pops up any search engine you use.
Speaker: But also just coming and seeing it.
Speaker: Like, it's easy to get on websites and read, but the experience of, like, being here and being present, of seeing the kids, like, interacting, loving each other, being friends, and with workers interacting and working off each other, and it was all peer relationship, like,
Speaker: I've known these people for 10 plus years, Biddle and Tyrell and Terry.
Speaker: It's not just like, oh, we just found people that are just good at surrounding the world and we offer them a job.
Speaker: No, we built it from relationship.
Speaker: And that's why it's the only way it works, God in relationship.
Speaker: So that's like, just coming here and seeing it is worthwhile because it's something that you can't,
Speaker: really like read off of paper or read off of a phone or computer screen.
Speaker: Like it's like, if you come here and see it, it means so much more.
Speaker: It's seeing where we started and where we are now.
Speaker: So, but the website is good.
Speaker: If you like want to like, I mean, like the end person is always better.
Speaker: No, that's great.
Speaker: I think that's good.
Speaker: I think a lot of people should be able to go to some of these different communities and just kind of see some of the work that they're doing.
Speaker: Like you said, it's different to just read about it online as opposed to just seeing what you guys are actually doing in person.
Speaker: Are you guys hoping that as you guys are kind of continuing the model that you've created with Midian leadership, are you hoping that you see kind of some of the curriculum and just things that you guys are creating?
Speaker: Do you hope to see that more in different communities or are you just guys just focusing more where you're at?
Speaker: What are you kind of hoping for the future with it?
Speaker: It's in God's hands, but the answer to that
Speaker: A group of friends from Baltimore, Maryland, literally came to her a few months ago to meet with us and hang with us and see how we did it.
Speaker: And they're looking to start something up like this in Baltimore.
Speaker: So, like, yes, that's what it's about.
Speaker: You know, people saying, like, dang, those guys are doing something that the world have never figured out how to do.
Speaker: And they're traveling to little old West Virginia to try to
Speaker: understand how we did it.
Speaker: And the only answer, the really only two answers you can, you can get, you really can give people is the relationship and the Lord.
Speaker: Like, you know, it only works because we really love each other and care and we want to do this for our community.
Speaker: But like, models like stuff like this need to be in more communities, need to be in more states because
Speaker: it allows, you know, kids to be kids and young adults to still believe who they are and know they can be loved and be safe, you know.
Speaker: Because like Biddle said, it's not that much people.
Speaker: We might be, what, only a handful of people that use the research how sports can heal trauma.
Speaker: So that's not like a known thing.
Speaker: Like people have not, a lot of people haven't,
Speaker: process that and I think um it's like it's really special to have a person like Biddle around that can understand like that stuff you know what I'm saying because it really like so much people like can't like fathom like what that really means like
Speaker: Yes, I know the enjoyment of sports.
Speaker: I know what it done for me when I play with my brothers, but I never could have vocalized that to anyone about how my brain was chemically doing all that.
Speaker: But now, when Jeff talks about it and you read it, they're like, whoa, this did make me feel good.
Speaker: Like,
Speaker: my friend making his play did make me feel like, whoa, I'm a part of something.
Speaker: Like, you know, like, yeah, like, I felt, you can feel it, like, you can feel it even in college.
Speaker: Like, I understood that everyone on the team has certain gifts and certain abilities, certain personalities.
Speaker: Like, just being a captain and being leader of the team, like, like, okay, maybe I can spin at him.
Speaker: to motivate him.
Speaker: But maybe one of my teammates, I have to go to the side and talk to him one-on-one or address him a certain way.
Speaker: Like, that's how life is and that's how, like, the brain works.
Speaker: That's how sports, that's what sports does to the brain.
Speaker: So, like, yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker: You know, I can set up playing a ramble all day about it, honestly.
Speaker: But it's really, really good stuff.
Speaker: And I think that's the beauty of CCD work.
Speaker: It's not franchisable.
Speaker: We couldn't just repeat what we did here somewhere else, but a lot of it is shareable.
Speaker: Someone from another city can take what we have learned about ourselves and then draw from the relationships in their community and build something that builds on that.
Speaker: And it is really cool to see how we can share what we're doing in a way that glorifies the Lord by allowing the work to move forward in other places.
Speaker: No, that's great.
Speaker: Thank you guys so much for this information.
Speaker: One of the last things I kind of wanted to touch on and ask you guys is, again, we are focusing, of course, on Mental Health Awareness Month.
Speaker: And we have a lot of practitioners, including myself and advocates who love to just talk about the concept of mental health and what we can do for our communities who are struggling in this area.
Speaker: And so what would be a word of advice that you would give to either a licensed professional, an advocate, anyone that's interested in any type of mental health work?
Speaker: What is kind of some advice that you would give to any of these professionals as it relates to more community development and even based off of some of the work that you guys do?
Speaker: I'm going to refer to.
Speaker: Certainly, I would say athletics are a huge asset.
Speaker: You know, we want to look for what assets, what psychological assets and the social assets in our communities.
Speaker: And athletics can be overlooked at how important it is for the development of our young people.
Speaker: But at the same time, it's all in how you use it.
Speaker: I think part of the research we've been doing, one of the exciting things is sports does not automatically do anything good.
Speaker: It takes parents and coaches and educational professionals and the students being on the same page about what we want to happen here.
Speaker: And so athletics is a huge asset for our students if we use it correctly, if it's something that we are using for development and not simply as a platform for self-aggrandizement or as an unrealistic view of what can happen in the future.
Speaker: But as long as our young people know this is something that is good for you now, you won't be able to do it forever.
Speaker: It is good for you now.
Speaker: It is good for building relationships, for figuring out how you...
Speaker: address the challenges in your life.
Speaker: It is good for teaching your mind and your body to experience freedom together and make good decisions.
Speaker: It's up to us adults in our life to use that asset well.
Speaker: And that's something that Duran and his buddies who are coaches have really been able to develop into how we practice what we do here.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So like, I would have to say like the love
Speaker: You know, if I wanted to give somebody, like, a practitioner or someone that's, like, leading the mental health aspect of it, love.
Speaker: Like, literally, you know, God loves us.
Speaker: Like, he loves us.
Speaker: You know, he died for us.
Speaker: And, like, I try to just love people and treat people how we want to be treated.
Speaker: So, even with the sports stuff, like, coaching and, dang, like, we knew that the athletics, the athletics would take us, my school coach, the athletics would take us where we want to be, but we can't do it forever.
Speaker: And that's what we learned from the – that's what I learned through this process.
Speaker: I used football to build relationships.
Speaker: A lot of my friends played football.
Speaker: I used football to get a scholarship.
Speaker: I got friends from school.
Speaker: Football had put me in a position to come back from the community.
Speaker: I coach.
Speaker: So things like that.
Speaker: So, like, just using athletics, you know, love and care, just like that.
Speaker: Small things like that, I would try to, like,
Speaker: say the health or something like the mental health aspect of it.
Speaker: Yeah, like that's, you know, I try to keep it simple even with coaching and things.
Speaker: Like I just try to love, let them know I love them.
Speaker: And coaching is easy after that.
Speaker: Like in my opinion, like coaching is easy when you know, the kid knows that you love and care for them outside the X and O's and outside of things it takes to be a successful, be a success at your sport.
Speaker: they'll, they'll, they'll do anything for you.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, so just the love part, a lot of people that didn't with a lot of mental health stuff, they just need love, like, and let, and really knowing that someone cared for them and things like that.
Speaker: That'd be like the huge chunk of it.
Speaker: You know, so that's definitely my advice.
Speaker: Well, again, thank you guys.
Speaker: Terran, Jeff, thank you guys so much for just taking the time and having this conversation.
Speaker: Is there anything to, one last thing, that we can be praying for you guys as you guys continue on doing the work at Midian Leadership?
Speaker: Just anything that anyone who may be listening, we could just be praying for you guys for?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I pray for it just to keep helping us become better leaders and learn from the things that we don't understand and learn and get better at the things that we already good at.
Speaker: pray that we can keep incorporating the Lord and finding ways to get the kids attention about who the Lord is by using Midian as the foundation.
Speaker: Yeah, so that's something to put in mind.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Well, thank you guys again so much for just taking the time.
Speaker: We look forward to just continuing the work that you guys are doing, and we will definitely be praying for you guys as you guys continue on this journey.
Speaker: So thank you so much for everything.
Speaker: Thank you, sir.
Speaker: I appreciate you.
Speaker: Stephanie, thank you so much for coming on and just having a conversation with me about mental health awareness.
Speaker: You know, we want to sit and just talk with different professionals and people who are out there doing the work, people who see the work.
Speaker: And so I just want to thank you so much for just coming on and talking and having this conversation with me.
Speaker: So to get started, why don't you introduce yourself?
Speaker: Just tell us a little bit about what you do, and then we'll start the conversation from there.
Speaker: Well, sure.
Speaker: Well, thanks so much, Lindahl.
Speaker: I'm delighted to be part of this conversation.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: So I guess a little bit about me.
Speaker: I'm Stephanie Ann Vanderlucht.
Speaker: I work and live here in Charlotte, North Carolina, in the Southern Piedmont eco-region, in the Sugar Creek watershed.
Speaker: Original people.
Speaker: who stewarded this land are the Catawba, Sugaree, and Waxhaw people.
Speaker: I honor them.
Speaker: I love being a community member here, a neighbor, community weaver, I sometimes like to call, to identify that way.
Speaker: I am a mother of three.
Speaker: I'm a partner to my husband, Wes, for 18 years almost.
Speaker: I am a gardener and a lover of the earth and nature and our other-than-human neighbors, and that is very important in my work.
Speaker: I'm a friend and...
Speaker: Yeah, just someone who really cares about community, about the health, wellness, wholeness, flourishing, mutually interdependent flourishing of my neighbors and of my community.
Speaker: I do direct Kinship Plot, which is a sort of emerging, we're really less than three years old, community organization here in Charlotte.
Speaker: My background is in ministry.
Speaker: I'm a minister, an ordained minister, but mostly in community-based ministry.
Speaker: So my background really is in community development work and ministry mostly to returning citizens, women who are coming home from jail and prison back to the community.
Speaker: also youth and some church-based and ministry.
Speaker: So a variety of things, but mostly I, in my work in various places, including here in Charlotte, have found myself working with, you know, for lack of better terms, at-risk populations, people who are, who are,
Speaker: who understand suffering, who understand and bear the wounds of systemic, historic disinvestment, oppression, poverty.
Speaker: You know, my own journey and faith in Jesus and following Jesus of Nazareth leads me to...
Speaker: that kind of a kinship with those who understand those marginal places in society and inhabit them and to stand with and be in solidarity and care for each other.
Speaker: So I could go on and on.
Speaker: I like to talk, Lendl.
Speaker: But yeah, Kinship Plot is a, we call it a community of learning and practice.
Speaker: We are motivated by Christian faith and by the way of Jesus of Nazareth, but we eagerly work with people from all walks of life, all situations, all traditions.
Speaker: But we are, the big vision of Kinship Plot is we are building an emplaced community.
Speaker: So we would like to actually exist on a particular plot of land together in intentional community.
Speaker: We are really passionate about resonant relationships.
Speaker: That's kind of the word that we use.
Speaker: Resonance being this idea and this practice of, of,
Speaker: of vibrancy and vibrancy of relationship between with ourselves.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Where, where relationships have often gone mute or do not speak with their own voice.
Speaker: So with ourselves, with each other, with the land and with God.
Speaker: And so that kind of informs everything that we do.
Speaker: We would like to get established as an intentional in-place community.
Speaker: That also would include housing for people in transition.
Speaker: Whether that's transitioning out of homelessness or transitioning back to the community from jail or prison, Charlotte is a place of many transitions.
Speaker: And we are a place where it's difficult sometimes for people to find home.
Speaker: And so we imagine a place where people will be homing together, making home.
Speaker: And also, as people who care about the earth and the ecosystem, we work the land as well.
Speaker: So kind of though that's an active part of the in-place community as well.
Speaker: So we...
Speaker: We operate already in the community in a number of ways.
Speaker: We gather people around tables.
Speaker: We gather people to work the earth and to be cared for by the earth and the land.
Speaker: And we gather people to imagine and be together in different ways than what we see happening in the world around us, the alienation, the suffering, the
Speaker: So we're trying a lot of things that we want to see happen in the world in particular ways.
Speaker: But I know we're talking about mental health this month.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What do you want to talk about?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, of course, I mean, one of the I'm so glad that you decided to do this and join us today because, you know, the past couple of times we've met at our CCDA conference, you know, I always enjoy hearing about the work that you do.
Speaker: I really love the holistic perspective of the work that you do.
Speaker: Because I know a lot of what we talk about, especially within our network, is we talk some of those mental health pieces, but we forget that, you know, we're whole people.
Speaker: Like the people that we work with, they're a whole person.
Speaker: And so that's why I really appreciate kind of some of the work that you do, because you talk a lot about that.
Speaker: And so as we're talking kind of a little bit more about the Mental Health Awareness Month and, you know, kind of having some of that conversation, I want to kind of ask you, you know, when it comes to your community, especially with the work that you do with Kinship Plot, you know, what are some of kind of the mental health issues or struggles that you're seeing within your own community and kind of some of the needs that you've started noticing as you're doing the work that you're doing?
Speaker: Yeah, such a good question.
Speaker: And I totally uplift the holistic perspective because 100% am passionate about viewing people as whole beings.
Speaker: And that's very much at the heart of...
Speaker: of what, you know, what we, how we, how we engage with Kinship Plot.
Speaker: And personally, you know, I am, I am at the end of my, my school process and becoming a clinician.
Speaker: I actually went back to school for clinical social work because, you
Speaker: in my community work, mostly working with women who were locked up in the, in detention center or coming home from prison, I, I kept coming up against mental health, particularly trauma and trauma and, you know, traumas of, of all kinds, all interweaving together.
Speaker: And I, it,
Speaker: I basically reached a point where I was realizing that I would like a little bit more training into understanding how trauma acts in communities, how it impacts communities, how it impacts individuals, families.
Speaker: And so that was really what compelled me to go back and particularly focus on trauma-focused therapy.
Speaker: And, you know, I think what I've come to realize is it is very good.
Speaker: It's so important to have access for individuals, families, and communities to have access to specialized mental health, behavioral health, trauma-informed care.
Speaker: And for...
Speaker: For that not to be viewed as, you know, as something where we just, for people in the community, for community leaders, for pastors, ministers, churches, they play a huge role in terms of supporting in the process of healing, in the process of healing.
Speaker: of preventing.
Speaker: And so just seeing that we are all important in this work, we're all important in this work, but I do feel really passionately about access to high, I mean, I call it high quality mental behavioral health care.
Speaker: Here in Charlotte, you can
Speaker: You know, we were talking, I know, I don't know if you're going to talk about this more this month.
Speaker: If not, y'all need to talk to Lyndall about his interest in geospatial mapping and understanding access to resources.
Speaker: But those kinds, I mean, some kinds of maps have been done of Charlotte.
Speaker: And it is very clear where, what areas of Charlotte you can actually access resources.
Speaker: mental behavioral health, health care.
Speaker: And the areas, the area that I live in, West Charlotte, some of the areas around, the areas that are lower income.
Speaker: In Charlotte, we talk about the Crescent and the Wedge, which are different areas that clearly are delineated by income and also race and opportunity, access to all kinds of things.
Speaker: So if it and even as I've been kind of looking for clinical social work jobs, I've been really amazed where all the jobs are for for people who are going into clinical social work even.
Speaker: And.
Speaker: And also then the price, I mean, how you know, how are you supposed to access that kind of care for.
Speaker: several hundred dollars a session, and I'm not downplaying people being paid for what they do.
Speaker: So it's location, it's price, it's I got to take time off work to go care for my mental health.
Speaker: So this lack of access, lack of integration to just, I mean, I fully believe that mental health
Speaker: care is health care.
Speaker: You know, our bodies are not different than our minds.
Speaker: And so accessing that is really increasing access to that for all people, for all communities, especially those that have been most impacted by the
Speaker: by trauma, by traumas of oppression, by community trauma, by, you know, so many things.
Speaker: So anyway, you can see that I'm very passionate about it.
Speaker: And I also see how...
Speaker: How important of a role community plays in that.
Speaker: So when we imagine our community development work as kinship plot with others, we are taking, we are thinking in a trauma-informed way.
Speaker: Trauma-informed community development.
Speaker: Creating communities of healing, creating communities of reconnection, which I believe is at the core of healing.
Speaker: So anyway, I could talk and talk about this, but that is a little bit of my passion.
Speaker: No, I think that's great.
Speaker: Like I said, I love hearing about it.
Speaker: And, you know, anyone else who decides to listen to this, I think it's going to be very beneficial, whether you're a clinician, whether you're an advocate.
Speaker: Like you said, I like the concept of remembering we need to continue to create those communities of healing.
Speaker: We need those spaces of healing.
Speaker: And so kind of in what you're seeing in your community, what has been maybe some of the challenges that has come up with just being able to even maybe doing some networking pieces with maybe other organizations or community members overall?
Speaker: Have you seen any challenges?
Speaker: And maybe have you seen any surprising blessings that have come up from just some of the work in the community members that you've spoken with?
Speaker: Yeah, so, you know, I think one of the ongoing challenges is stigma and lack of understanding about what mental health is, what behavioral health is, and
Speaker: And, you know, some of the challenges that people might face in terms of mental and behavioral health and continuing to, you know, to work to end that stigma.
Speaker: That, I mean, COVID did a lot, I think, to expose this for people, but most people are living in
Speaker: today in America with some sort of mental or behavioral health challenge.
Speaker: And so just normalizing that, seeing it as like with trauma-informed care, we call it the universalizing principle.
Speaker: Assume that people are dealing with trauma.
Speaker: Assume that people are dealing with some form of mental health challenge.
Speaker: And
Speaker: So I think, you know, seeing that as, as, as seeing each other, seeing, seeing each other in, in our struggles.
Speaker: And, you know, I think,
Speaker: That's a big one here in Charlotte right now because they are, unfortunately, our city council is continuing to take stronger criminalizing approaches to our neighbors who are homeless.
Speaker: And so many, having worked in the detention centers,
Speaker: You know, we just try to criminalize and punish our way out of our challenges and our communities.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: Where are people going to end up if basic needs aren't met and their mental behavioral health needs aren't met?
Speaker: And they're going to end up in the jail.
Speaker: Like that's those are the folks that I would I would see because that's the only place that we have for people.
Speaker: And I talk a lot about those kind of pipelines.
Speaker: Towards our carceral systems and mental health to prison pipeline is a big one.
Speaker: You know, trauma to prison pipeline is a big one.
Speaker: We don't have the supports in our community, the training, the awareness in our community to know what to do, how to help, how to support someone.
Speaker: So they end up in our criminal justice system.
Speaker: Which is the opposite of caring.
Speaker: And, you know, that's not why our jails and prisons are designed, to care for people who, with mental or behavioral health challenges or trauma in their background.
Speaker: So I'm just continuing to uplift the ending of the stigma, the awareness and understanding of
Speaker: the training and connecting, yeah, giving people resources to know what to do and where to go when they encounter each other and encounter folks who needs some support.
Speaker: Yeah, so that was the first part of your question.
Speaker: What was the second part of your question, Lyndall?
Speaker: Oh, surprise.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, I would say for all the challenges that there are in Charlotte, there is so much incredible grassroots work going on.
Speaker: There are incredible, it's an incredible community to be part of, really.
Speaker: So I think there's...
Speaker: I try to stay very hope and joy forward.
Speaker: I think that this, one of the gifts that perhaps those of us who study the settling of nervous systems, one of the gifts that we can bring is just being people who are settled and who are
Speaker: who keep moving forward in hope and believing that healing's possible.
Speaker: And honestly, there are so many others in Charlotte doing that work across the
Speaker: faith communities, across organizations, even across institutions, and the creative community.
Speaker: There is a lot of challenges, and then there's a lot of resource in that way.
Speaker: So I am always trying to follow the
Speaker: Follow the yes, follow the energy, follow the joy, follow the healing.
Speaker: To stay with the trouble.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, that's great.
Speaker: You know, and I'm glad you mentioned kind of having that joy, kind of positive, you know, hopeful mindset, you know, especially today, you know, there's a lot of just things that we as communities are dealing with.
Speaker: And, you know, especially as it relates to mental health, kind of how you mentioned
Speaker: You know, there's a lot of people who are suffering who don't necessarily have those resources.
Speaker: They may not necessarily, they're able to afford kind of some of the counseling or programs that could potentially help them.
Speaker: And again, you never know what people are going through.
Speaker: One of the things I try to keep in mind is, you know, if I run into someone, just smile at them.
Speaker: Give them a smile.
Speaker: That may be the only smile that they see that day.
Speaker: And so I'm really glad that you brought that up.
Speaker: And again, I know that you're in school studying to become a clinical social worker and just kind of some of the amazing work that you're doing even with that.
Speaker: Because, again, you do such amazing work.
Speaker: So one of the questions I wanted to ask you, too, especially as it relates to community is,
Speaker: How would you say, or even in your own personal story, how do you personally take care of yourself or how would you encourage other people to kind of focus on more of some of those self-care principles?
Speaker: Especially, too, you mentioned the integration of maybe working with ministers who are also trying to do some of the mental health work and
Speaker: They do so much for their communities that, you know, we want to try to encourage them to take care of themselves.
Speaker: So what are some of your thoughts as it relates to kind of some of those self-care practices?
Speaker: Yeah, such a good and important question, I know, especially for people who care for others.
Speaker: So I have this thing about self-care, Lindel.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm one of those people that it's not that I have a problem with.
Speaker: I'm actually very passionate about people being cared for and caring for themselves and prioritizing that.
Speaker: But I kind of like to just call self-care honoring your humanity, honoring the gifts of your human limitations.
Speaker: I like that.
Speaker: Not as a liability, but as a gift.
Speaker: So as humans, we get hungry and we need to eat and nourish ourselves.
Speaker: And that is not a point of aggression.
Speaker: That is a beautiful, that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker: I will often say that when God, God made humans limited and called it good.
Speaker: Amen.
Speaker: Our human limitations are not a product of the fall, so that we get tired and we need to sleep at night.
Speaker: Restorative sleep.
Speaker: That we get, that we reach our limit mentally, emotionally.
Speaker: That's a gift.
Speaker: That's not a liability.
Speaker: So honoring those things and coming to, you know, now you're getting into the therapist in me, Lyndall, but... I had to do it.
Speaker: I had to do it.
Speaker: I do very much value and practice sort of bottom-up somatic approaches and...
Speaker: So many of us have lost a sense of even being able to listen to our bodies, our emotions, our capacities, our sacred capacities.
Speaker: So we just keep going.
Speaker: We keep going, going, going, and pushing, pushing, pushing.
Speaker: And then fall apart.
Speaker: Burn out.
Speaker: And...
Speaker: So I love it.
Speaker: And I'm not good at this.
Speaker: Nobody is in this day and age.
Speaker: And I actually did a workshop on this back in the CCDA gathering in Charlotte.
Speaker: And it was about leveraging the gift of resilience.
Speaker: And we talked a lot about
Speaker: about the gifts of our sacred limitations.
Speaker: And one of the things I talked about is, you know, Christian communities and organizations are, we're at fault.
Speaker: We're at fault for uplifting the know-it-all, do-it-all, be everywhere, be everywhere for all, which I would call some of the original, those are some of the original,
Speaker: Those are some of the original impacts of the fall.
Speaker: Humans thinking, I can know everything and be everywhere for everyone and do everything.
Speaker: Those are temptations.
Speaker: And we fall into those.
Speaker: We fall into those for good reasons.
Speaker: We see through the eyes of God as people created in the image of God, other image bearers suffering.
Speaker: And so then sometimes we take on, we try to take on those God-like qualities.
Speaker: Because who's omniscient?
Speaker: Who's all-knowing?
Speaker: God alone.
Speaker: Who's all-present?
Speaker: God alone.
Speaker: Who is all-powerful, can do it all for all people?
Speaker: God alone.
Speaker: Not Stephanie, not Lindahl.
Speaker: And so when I need to sleep myself,
Speaker: That's good.
Speaker: That is me saying, I am limited human.
Speaker: When I need to eat and nourish my body, when I need to sit down to eat and nourish my body, when I need to go outside and be silent, when I need to, you know, these things are good.
Speaker: And I say this to everyone who's listening, whether you are a...
Speaker: a leader in your community, or, I mean, everyone needs to hear this and be reminded of this because in our current late modern times,
Speaker: Our limitation, our need to slow, to rest, these have been made points of aggression.
Speaker: These have been made enemies against us.
Speaker: So we experience them sometimes as enemies rather than as friends and as gifts.
Speaker: So I am very passionate about that, not as self-care as a way to numb out and, you know, and then return back, but actually as a
Speaker: What I'm always seeking, Spirit of God, help me to be repenting toward a Sabbath-shaped life that is based on dependence on God first and admitting my limitations and living out of those and then
Speaker: And being able to stay alive and awake in the world because so many almost burned out Christian leaders are just barely making it.
Speaker: And if that's you, if you're listening to this, you are not alone.
Speaker: I have experienced the space of burnout lately.
Speaker: And so I feel very passionately about this for all people and especially for, you know, for leaders who carry this because it is, it's very, very common in the waters that we swim in for leaders to be not okay, but hiding that and pretending to be okay.
Speaker: And so, yeah, just a lot of, a lot of compassion because,
Speaker: And a lot of encouragement to anyone who might be listening to this who is in that space to reach out for support because there are plenty of you are very much not alone.
Speaker: That's so good.
Speaker: Thank you so much for that.
Speaker: You know, I think I mean, even me listening to it, I'm like, man, I got kind of convicted by that.
Speaker: Like, I kind of needed to hear that for myself as well.
Speaker: So thank you so much for sharing that, just that perspective with us.
Speaker: As we kind of wrap up our conversation, one of the things, you know, I want to try to ask just our wonderful, the people we're kind of interviewing, you know, what is some advice or what is a word of encouragement that you could give those who are advocating for mental health in their communities, whether, again, if they're a clinician, an advocate, a minister, what's kind of that piece of advice you would give to those who are doing the work out there?
Speaker: Oh, keep doing it.
Speaker: Keep going.
Speaker: I think one of the things I would say, and it really relates to what we were just talking about with honoring our beautiful imitations, is stay alive.
Speaker: I believe this is attributed to St.
Speaker: Irenaeus, and others have said it, that
Speaker: that the glory of God is the human fully alive.
Speaker: And, you know, for those of us who care about wholeness, mentally, you know, and fully integrated mental health, emotional health, spiritual health, we care about that.
Speaker: We care about humans fully alive.
Speaker: And so...
Speaker: Whatever your aliveness practices are, practice them.
Speaker: For me, I'm one of the things that is...
Speaker: I'm excited about integrating into my practice is I'm an ecotherapist, nature-informed therapist in training.
Speaker: Just really believe in the sort of untapped resource of the natural world of Earth, of creation, to heal us, to be part of that healing process.
Speaker: And so that is one of my regular aliveness practices is to be out in nature, to become reconnected.
Speaker: It's where I feel like I can actually begin listening with my heart forward and quiet noise in my head and allow for that integration to happen and to become reconnected and alive again.
Speaker: So whatever you need to stay alive or awake, woke, like to say, like that, that's be resourced, be resourced, be tended.
Speaker: Let others take care of you.
Speaker: Let others take care of you and keep doing the work you're doing.
Speaker: We are far from having equal equitable access to mental and behavioral health.
Speaker: So however you are engaging that, keep doing it.
Speaker: And keep getting creative, right?
Speaker: I think that's the other piece.
Speaker: Try things that haven't been tried.
Speaker: Take some risks.
Speaker: Don't do it alone.
Speaker: Take some risks.
Speaker: But yeah, we have not yet co-created the systems that we need for everyone to be cared for.
Speaker: So whatever small, micro, mezzo, macro way you're engaging with that, keep going.
Speaker: Wow, that's so good.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Thank you again so much for just taking the time and just having this conversation.
Speaker: I really believe people who are listening to this will definitely just find value in the words that you've spoken today.
Speaker: So just thank you so much for that.
Speaker: And anyone that is, of course, listening, how can they be praying for you?
Speaker: Or even, you know, is there a website that you have for Kinship Plot, a way if they want to support or just even...
Speaker: Just be praying for the work that you're doing.
Speaker: And of course, be praying for you as you finish up with school, which we're super excited about.
Speaker: And I know that God's going to continue to use you in that area as well.
Speaker: But is there any way that, again, we can be praying for you or any way if we can support just the work that you're doing?
Speaker: Appreciate that so much, Lyndal.
Speaker: That means a lot.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely pray for me as I finish, cross the finish line.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I would absolutely welcome prayer for Kinship Plot.
Speaker: You can find us on the web, www.kinshipplot.org.
Speaker: You can find us on social media, Instagram, Facebook, all those places.
Speaker: Connect with us.
Speaker: We are rooted here in Charlotte, but we are building a global network of people who really are also...
Speaker: interested, have similar longings for expanding kinship practices and ways of being in their own communities.
Speaker: So absolutely welcome.
Speaker: Welcome that.
Speaker: Subscribing to our updates is probably one of the best ways to stay connected to Kinship Plot.
Speaker: And I would absolutely value prayer.
Speaker: We really do believe that that picture and vision that God gave us
Speaker: a few years ago will come to pass.
Speaker: There's lots of barriers in Charlotte to be in community and in, and in community with each other and with land in different ways than the typical ways around here.
Speaker: And so we are, we can feel like we are working against the flow and, and,
Speaker: I love that because if I felt like we were going with the flow, that would not probably sit well.
Speaker: That would probably be a warning sign because the flow is not always good.
Speaker: I really love and return to Dr. King's concept of creative maladjustment often.
Speaker: He actually...
Speaker: was speaking to the American Psychiatric Association when he was speaking to our people, Lyndall, when he brought this forward, which was basically, you know, we talk about, we now say instead of maladjustment, we now talk about maladaptive thinking and behavior, right?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: In the 60s, the APA was calling that more, calling it maladjustment, concerns about people being maladjusted.
Speaker: And he had this powerful word for these wonderful practitioners.
Speaker: And he said,
Speaker: There is a maladjustment that should all basically always be.
Speaker: May we never become adjusted.
Speaker: May we always be maladjusted to segregation, to injustice, to oppression.
Speaker: There is a...
Speaker: You know, there's a not fitting in that will always be.
Speaker: And let's not call that something that has to be healed.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: So just prayer for that continuing practice of prayer.
Speaker: being maladjusted to these other, these ways of being that, that I, that we see are leading to further isolation and inequity.
Speaker: But it is a it's it's a joyful uphill climb.
Speaker: But I would be thrilled to to connect with anyone who's listening to this.
Speaker: You know, that's the other thing.
Speaker: I love that we're part of this behavioral health network.
Speaker: Lyndall, like that's that's so energizing to me that that meeting that we have even just once a year at the conference is so good.
Speaker: It's just so good.
Speaker: So if you're if you are in behavioral health, if you're clinician, social work, counseling, even if you're not, you you do not need to be.
Speaker: You know, we all gather there at CCDA and everybody.
Speaker: Some folks are clinicians practicing and others aren't, and that is not how we do it.
Speaker: We're all coming together.
Speaker: If you care about mental behavioral health, if you're a minister, community member, community organizer, member of a congregation, just someone who cares—
Speaker: about the integration and holistic health of people can be part of us.
Speaker: Because I think staying connected to a wider network of people who can encourage you, pray for you is just really key.
Speaker: So I'm super grateful for this community.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Yes, thank you again for that.
Speaker: No one could say that better than you, Stephanie.
Speaker: I just have to throw that out there.
Speaker: But thank you again so much.
Speaker: I really thoroughly enjoyed this conversation.
Speaker: And like I said, I know those who...
Speaker: who will be listening, they will definitely, I just pray that this will be a blessing to them.
Speaker: And I know that it will because you are an amazing person.
Speaker: And so again, I just love just kind of hearing your thoughts and perspective on what's going out there when it comes to the work that we're doing.
Speaker: So just know that we'll be praying for you and the work that you'll be doing.
Speaker: And again, we're just so grateful that, you know, we get to do this work together, be in community together.
Speaker: And so just thank you so much for your time for today.
Speaker: Thanks, Lindell.
Speaker: It's an honor.
