Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the CCDA podcast.
Speaker: My name is Lynette McIntosh-Madrigal and I am the Flourishing Congregations Coordinator here at CCDA.
Speaker: And I am your host for this episode.
Speaker: CCDA is passionate about seeing people and communities experience God's shalom.
Speaker: And one way we are doing this is through the Flourishing Congregations Initiative or FCI.
Speaker: There's a comprehensive four-year program designed to empower church leaders to help their congregation deepen their community engagement, enhance their ministries, and contribute to the flourishing of their neighborhoods.
Speaker: Together, we are navigating what it looks like to move from community isolation to community partnership.
Speaker: So today we have Pamela Evans and Dr. Jermaine Armour from St.
Speaker: Luke A&M Zion in North Carolina, joining us to share about what it looks like to do church in the community and how they are seeing God moving.
Speaker: Pamela and Dr. Armour, thank you for being with us here today.
Speaker: Before we dive into the work at St.
Speaker: Luke, I'd love for our listeners to get to know both of you a little bit more.
Speaker: So I'd love for you to start maybe, Dr. Armour, with your story, maybe introducing yourself, and then we'll lead on to Pamela B.
Speaker: Thank you, Lynette.
Speaker: And it's great to be here and share on this platform.
Speaker: Originally, I'm from Buffalo, New York.
Speaker: And so it was first, it was college and school that got me to North Carolina.
Speaker: And what got me into the Amizine Church was definitely the Amizine Church.
Speaker: And then that led to
Speaker: doing community work that we love to do.
Speaker: I remember growing up in Buffalo where our Christmases were not as happy as they should be and because we lived in a very poor neighborhood.
Speaker: And so my aunt would take me and my cousin down to what was called in Buffalo the city mission.
Speaker: And we would wait online to get toys.
Speaker: And I'm pretty sure that is
Speaker: you know, people's story all over the world, but that was a part of my story.
Speaker: So when I reflect, it was the community back then that was doing something for people who were marginalized and didn't have as much.
Speaker: And so I can say that that really started my love for the community and making sure, because when I see children in line, you know,
Speaker: trying to get food or, you know, want to get toys for Christmas.
Speaker: It reminds me, I used to be that child.
Speaker: And so that becomes just one of my drives to do the community work that we do now here in North Carolina and the surrounding areas.
Speaker: So yeah, that keeps us going.
Speaker: Love the work.
Speaker: Beautiful.
Speaker: And correct me if I'm wrong, you lead a nonprofit.
Speaker: Is that correct?
Speaker: Or a consulting agency?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: We started the business and started leading it.
Speaker: It's called Armor Up Consultings.
Speaker: And so it's kind of fresh, new, but yeah, it's starting off to a really good start.
Speaker: Beautiful.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Pamela, what about you?
Speaker: Are you originally a North Carolina native?
Speaker: Thank you, Lynette.
Speaker: Thank you again for having me here today.
Speaker: I am a North Carolina native.
Speaker: I am from Wilmington, but I was actually born and raised in a rural little town outside of Wilmington, probably about 30 miles.
Speaker: That was called Atkinson, North Carolina, which was in a little county called Kenda County.
Speaker: So as Pastor said, probably then I was practicing a lot of things of flourishing communities and didn't realize it.
Speaker: Born and raised in a small community, we're a community that engaged in, you know, mostly even if you was not related, you were, if you had somebody else had.
Speaker: You know, where everybody was raised and kind of came together as when it came to worshiping together, going to school together, knowing the needs and wants of the others that was in sharing in your community and even in the surrounding community.
Speaker: I came to Wilmington probably about almost 30 plus years ago when I married.
Speaker: My husband was a native of Wilmington.
Speaker: At that time, grew up as a Southern Baptist girl.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So that helped me to ground my foundation also in doing different things when it came to doing ministry.
Speaker: I always have involved myself in ministry growing up, joined the AMA Zion Church, continued to work in ministry.
Speaker: But that's how I ended up in Wilmington and ended up in the AMA Zion Church.
Speaker: So from that point, it became history.
Speaker: Beautiful.
Speaker: For our listeners who are perhaps unfamiliar with the Amy Zion denomination, how would you describe it?
Speaker: The AME Zion Church is a denomination that is structured by its Methodism.
Speaker: It is a church that is, sometimes people may get a little offended thinking by saying African, but it welcomes all races, whether you are Black, white, Hispanic.
Speaker: So it is a church, a denomination that is structured by its Methodism.
Speaker: There are many different congregations across North Carolina that are part of the Amizan denomination.
Speaker: Is there like a rough number that you know Pastor Armour in the North Carolina region?
Speaker: In the North Carolina region, well, let's just say they're split up by what they call Episcopal areas and districts and conferences like you would have in most of your mainline denomination.
Speaker: So if we take, for example, Pam and I are considered a part of the Eastern North Carolina Episcopal area.
Speaker: And within that area, you're talking about churches in Wilmington, Goldsboro, North Carolina, churches as far as Durham and Raleigh.
Speaker: And so in those areas, we have 387 churches just in that area alone.
Speaker: And then if you move up to the Charlotte area, they call that area the Piedmont area.
Speaker: And so that's Charlotte, North Carolina.
Speaker: That's Gastonia, North Carolina.
Speaker: That's Concord, North Carolina.
Speaker: And so they have a great number of churches there, probably a little under 300 churches.
Speaker: And so worldwide, we can proudly boast of 6,000 congregations from Englewood, California to India.
Speaker: Wow, that's incredible.
Speaker: I was not aware of those numbers.
Speaker: That's, that's incredible.
Speaker: It sounds like both of you grew up in different spaces from where you're at now, but were completely shaped by your own communities when you were young.
Speaker: I want to know more about Wilmington, which is where St.
Speaker: Luke Amazone is at.
Speaker: Tell me more, Pamela, paint a picture for us.
Speaker: What is your community like?
Speaker: Our community in Wilmington and where the church is located is a primary underserved roughly community.
Speaker: It is a community now that is going through a lot of renovation, a community that has a lot of needs.
Speaker: It has a different type of people that live in the community.
Speaker: You may have the elders, you know, elderly that live in a community to maybe people that are living in a community that are rehabilitating a certain addictions.
Speaker: You may have people in the community that basically single parents.
Speaker: You may have
Speaker: married, full family.
Speaker: I would say it is a community that has all different sorts of people, all different sorts of needs, all different sorts of different things that can make the community thrive, but also a lot of things that can make the community stay at a place that you're trying to help build it.
Speaker: A community that needs a lot of resources and the resources that are needed can be from food to housing to medical.
Speaker: Just it's a community that it has a vast many needs in it.
Speaker: So that's why I think, you know, as they say, God has a sense of humor.
Speaker: Because our church sits right on the corner, just about in a community that in either direction, there are many needs, many, many different type of people.
Speaker: So it's not by accident that God has us.
Speaker: where he does.
Speaker: So it's not by default that we as a church, we have to be a church that has to reach out and make sure that we serve the people.
Speaker: We cannot just be a church that come in on Sunday and come back the next Sunday.
Speaker: So it is a community that it is many needs, many different resources that are needed.
Speaker: I'm wondering, as you're driving or walking to church on an occasion or on a Sunday or throughout the week, what signs of hope pop up for you?
Speaker: What does that look like?
Speaker: I remember doing this one activity in our own community where a professor kind of took us to this really hard area in the city of Fresno.
Speaker: And really just released this and said, hey, I want you to walk around this whole neighborhood.
Speaker: And I want you to listen to the Holy Spirit guiding you.
Speaker: And those signs of need, they're so apparent.
Speaker: And it's actually quite hard to find those signs of hope sometimes.
Speaker: Like, man, what does that even look like?
Speaker: But I'm wondering for maybe kids can both answer what what would a sign of hope look like in Wilmington?
Speaker: It can sometimes get overwhelming with so many needs.
Speaker: That is so many different things going on.
Speaker: So even as a church, even I know pastor, he probably has it on a different level.
Speaker: But I know me as a leader, you know, just as a ministry leader, I
Speaker: you sometimes begin to feel like, are we doing enough?
Speaker: Are we meeting people where they are?
Speaker: But then, you know, I can look back, you know, the signs of hope for me is that when we do help someone find housing, when we do help provide food for someone,
Speaker: where we can help refer someone to a place that they may not have known of.
Speaker: Those are signs of hope for me.
Speaker: And then we can look back and we can count it as they win because I feel that
Speaker: It was a time that as a church, and I can just say this as a church, yes, we were a church in a community, but we were not a church of the community.
Speaker: That's good.
Speaker: So being in the community and of the community to me is different.
Speaker: You know, as St.
Speaker: Luke being a historical church here in the city of Wilmington, we were well known for being St.
Speaker: Luke.
Speaker: But now I can say that we are becoming a church of the community.
Speaker: We are with the community because we're not only just known by our name, we are being known for how we can help someone.
Speaker: And that makes the difference to me.
Speaker: I don't want to be known by my name.
Speaker: I don't want to be known by my name, just even as Pamela.
Speaker: I don't want to be known as
Speaker: Pamela Marshburn-Evans.
Speaker: I want to, just like as the word say, we want to be known for the work.
Speaker: I let our work speak for us.
Speaker: So that's what I can say is the hope that I can see that the
Speaker: the work, it is large, it is sometimes overwhelming, but we have to look at the small chunk because sometimes we can get ourselves very overwhelmed or feel like we're not accomplishing anything.
Speaker: But if we just take a small bite and
Speaker: You know, each time off of the things that we are trying to do and just realize that we're trying to take a bite at the time because we know that God didn't do it all.
Speaker: He didn't do it all at one time.
Speaker: So who are we to think that we can do it all at one time?
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: So that is the hope that I see as I grow more in my walk with Christ.
Speaker: That helps me to see the good sometimes even when the, I don't want to call it bad, but when that picture is not fully painted the color that we want it, I'm learning to see more of just the corners.
Speaker: of the edges that we're getting there.
Speaker: And that gives me hope.
Speaker: Okay, we're getting there.
Speaker: And sometimes pastors say to me, okay, we'll count that as a win.
Speaker: So that's what I'm learning to do, even with the many needs of the community.
Speaker: That's the hope that I'm seeing.
Speaker: That's good.
Speaker: So you mentioned that you saw the church kind of move from a progression of being in the community to with the community, which I think it's worth emphasizing because that's the church-based philosophy is there's churches that are in the community, they're for the community, but how do we move to being a church with the community?
Speaker: Which kind of makes me think, Pastor Armour, what is the church's story?
Speaker: Has it always been a church that is moving on that trajectory?
Speaker: Was there a pivotal moment that said, we need to get right and we need to be with the community?
Speaker: What is the church's story?
Speaker: Yeah, good question, Lynette.
Speaker: And I was thinking about that because on one of our last meetings, networking, I think you were talking about that.
Speaker: So when Pam said it, I was like, that was right what you were talking about.
Speaker: I was like, no way.
Speaker: I was about to cash and send the offering plate around.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: Don't let Pam fool you.
Speaker: She's not just our community person, but she's got a speaking engagement later on this year.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: That's what I hear.
Speaker: I think a lot of it has to do with number one transition because, you know, pastors can come into Amazon church and they could be gone in a year.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so you have so many pastors come through and each pastor comes through and they have a vision.
Speaker: And then if they get moved, then here's another pastor that comes through and that person has a different vision.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so I think a lot of it starts with leadership.
Speaker: It really does.
Speaker: It starts with leadership.
Speaker: And then I think it starts with a little longevity.
Speaker: And I think that while we can thank God that we're so successful because I believe in community outreach, you know, and then you have people like Pam in the church who believe the same thing.
Speaker: And then when those one-to-twin powers come together and we have some time to work the ministry, we can really make impact instead of doing activity.
Speaker: And that's what we've been all about, right?
Speaker: Just doing things that are impactful in the community.
Speaker: And so St.
Speaker: Luke has always been a church.
Speaker: It was founded in 1865-ish.
Speaker: You weren't kidding about the historic, huh?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: This is right before Reconstruction.
Speaker: This is right after Emancipation Proclamation.
Speaker: So that's why our church has a tagline.
Speaker: The denomination is the Freedom Church because we're up from... And so St.
Speaker: Luke started around that time.
Speaker: And so we had a lot of members, especially our female members who were in education.
Speaker: So you had teachers who back then just didn't teach in school, but they're going to your home.
Speaker: They're making...
Speaker: Your homework, they have a great relationship with parents.
Speaker: So you had to work in the community helping.
Speaker: So that spirit has kind of been there.
Speaker: Now, fast forward to 2025, we have a lot of members that are not in education, but a lot of members who are in the medical field.
Speaker: Like Pam is in pediatrics.
Speaker: We have registered nurses.
Speaker: at our church.
Speaker: We have people who work in philanthropy and development raise money for the hospital.
Speaker: So we went from a church that educated you to a church now that's making sure they're bandaging you and taking care of you.
Speaker: Man, I love that.
Speaker: That's good.
Speaker: That's some good stuff right there.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So there's always been a sense of community.
Speaker: I believe that
Speaker: You know, maybe about 13 years ago, we just decided to take it to a new level.
Speaker: With my mind of the community and Pam's desire to really touch and change people's lives through the gospel of Christ, I asked her to come work along with me.
Speaker: And we began to really move.
Speaker: And she gave the analogy of a church closing on Sunday and then open the doors again on Sunday.
Speaker: That's where we were.
Speaker: That's where we were until we began to kind of keep our doors open every single day so that we were a part of the community.
Speaker: St.
Speaker: Luke has a rich history of being in the community.
Speaker: I think that for such a time as this, the way we are in the community is very, very, very important and very vital to what's happening.
Speaker: for the pastors that are listening to this, the ones that are saying like, how I've been trying to keep my doors open every day of the week.
Speaker: I'm trying to engage in the community.
Speaker: What would you say has been different from, that you've seen, right?
Speaker: As a consultant, somebody who is helping church planners and is talking to congregations, how do you get there?
Speaker: There's a theoretical question that kind of looms in the atmosphere that if your church was not to exist in your city tomorrow, it was never there anymore.
Speaker: Would anybody miss it?
Speaker: And so we want to work so much where St.
Speaker: Luke makes such of an impact.
Speaker: If we're not here tomorrow, Wilmington is going to feel it.
Speaker: They're going to feel it, right?
Speaker: And so I would advise pastors to, you really got to walk the area and see the needs.
Speaker: And I mean, like literally open up your doors and it's the CCDA philosophy, listening to people, right?
Speaker: And know that in our denomination, the bishop may give the appointment, but God gives the assignment, right?
Speaker: assignment is always touching the heart of the community.
Speaker: So just, I mean, in practical sense, they do something around here called asset mapping, where they will, you know, a group will come into your church and they will try to, they will sit down and they will tell you where all the spots are that you can partnership with and all the needs and you pay some money for it.
Speaker: Well, you know, you can give it to me for free because if I go out my church and just walk around and kind of talk to people and engage with people and commune with people, you know,
Speaker: to see what's going on, I would encourage pastors to do that because they're, as Pam mentioned, the needs are great.
Speaker: I mean, the word of God says, right, that the harvest is plentiful.
Speaker: It's the labors that are few.
Speaker: We don't need no more work.
Speaker: We just need more workers.
Speaker: The work is out there.
Speaker: The need is out there.
Speaker: And so I encourage pastors now to
Speaker: If you look at the scripture, Jesus, you could count on your one hand how many times Jesus was in the church.
Speaker: And he spent 90% of his ministry on the corner.
Speaker: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker: And if we want to be Christ-like, because the Bible says, you know, be imitators of God.
Speaker: If we want to be Christ-like, then that becomes our ministry.
Speaker: That has to be a part of your ministry where we move the church to the corner and make it sustainable.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I want to add to that, Lynette, as Pastor was saying, I was thinking in my mind, too, that to show your love, show your love and so that your community can see it.
Speaker: They can feel it.
Speaker: You know, you can be right in the community and the community not trust you.
Speaker: not feel the love for you, not believe in what you're doing.
Speaker: I remember just, you know, as I spoke before, I said before that we are in this underserved community.
Speaker: So we are around a lot of people that didn't receive a lot of different types of medical care, you know, didn't get the different valuations or appointments and things that were needed.
Speaker: We are part of the Faith Health Network.
Speaker: which we will bring things into the community to help people to know more about the different things that they need as far as health care, as far as things they would need to help take care of their body.
Speaker: A lot of them just didn't.
Speaker: For various reasons, insurance, money, a lot of them didn't trust different things of the government, you know.
Speaker: And I remember when we was just trying to do flu vaccine.
Speaker: It was many people right in our community that had never taken flu vaccine.
Speaker: Many people that had it, you know, when it was during the pandemic, hadn't taken the COVID vaccination.
Speaker: And we were blood pressure, you know, just getting things done.
Speaker: But because they trusted us as a church, when we brought those different entities into the community, they trusted us enough to say, when we would say, come over and get your blood pressure checked.
Speaker: And it could have been where they could have kept walking or not even signed up for it.
Speaker: But they trusted us enough.
Speaker: And even I remember some of them said we had one member to run out on a corner.
Speaker: We was literally gathering people in as they walked by.
Speaker: And I remember one person saying, he said, is pastor going to get it?
Speaker: I have to be the sacrificial lamb.
Speaker: We laughed about it, but then we thought,
Speaker: They trust pastor enough.
Speaker: They trust it.
Speaker: They say, if it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me.
Speaker: So that's the type of example and what you have to really show in your community.
Speaker: And you really have to, I think about the reconciliation part of the CCDA, you know, you really have to bring that community together and you got to meet them where they are.
Speaker: If you don't meet people where they are and see them for what they need, you're going to kind of get lost in the shuffle of it because, you know, they're not going to trust you.
Speaker: They're not going to feel the love from you.
Speaker: And you're just going to be once again in that community and not of that community.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: It sounds like healthcare is a big focal point.
Speaker: Would you say that there are other...
Speaker: Are there areas of also focus for St.
Speaker: Luke that your church is leaning into?
Speaker: And another question that I had too is, how are these partnerships changing your community and also your congregation?
Speaker: Are there other partnerships that have been equally as successful, like the Faith and Health Network?
Speaker: Yes, we can also say the need for food.
Speaker: That is a big focus at St.
Speaker: Root because as we know, with the economy and with the different things that's going on now, we have so many different diverse, different sets of families that even as two working people, sometimes after they've
Speaker: make their monies and bring their incomes together is still sometimes not enough money to buy food.
Speaker: They have to make the decision of food, groceries, bills, medicines.
Speaker: So we began a partnership probably about eight years ago, Pastor, I think.
Speaker: We decided we wanted to become a part of the food bank of the Central North Carolina here.
Speaker: Now one of the head chapters is located in Wilmington.
Speaker: They have built a brand new, awesome facility.
Speaker: So we are in partnership with them.
Speaker: So every Wednesday, and Pastor talk a lot more, we have a food pantry that we give food from 11 to 1.
Speaker: And during that time from 11 to 1, we may serve 65 to 90 plus people.
Speaker: It depends on the time.
Speaker: But it has been a phenomenal ministry that we have had to do at St.
Speaker: Luke.
Speaker: It is a ministry that everyone gets paid.
Speaker: That's a part of it.
Speaker: You have to feel that it is a much needed ministry.
Speaker: ministry.
Speaker: We are very blessed to be a part of that partnership.
Speaker: It provides so much to people.
Speaker: We are actually a food pantry, but to be a part of the food bank, you could be a soup kitchen or either a food pantry.
Speaker: soup kitchen where they're going and they actually cook the food and serve the food.
Speaker: We actually, we have people come in, we call it our Revive Mart.
Speaker: Instead of Walmart, we have a Revive Mart.
Speaker: And so they come in and that we give them the sense of where they, we have our racks, they come in, they shop for their food.
Speaker: Pastor, he has music playing.
Speaker: meet and greet people.
Speaker: We have actually, as people come through, it may be need that has been met on a immediate basis that come through.
Speaker: We, at that time, if there's someone come in and there's different resources that they might need, that's what we're building more to so that we can also give them food, but also help provide them with the different resources that they might need.
Speaker: That is a much needed, I'd say, that's needed in our community.
Speaker: Yes, health care and yes, food.
Speaker: And I also, Pastor can speak on it while I let him talk, is housing.
Speaker: So I would say housing, food, and health care.
Speaker: It's good to hear all of that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We're doing a lot.
Speaker: But yeah, and I would say also, Chief, that we call a chief around the church.
Speaker: Our education with the adoption of our school and how we support teachers as well, right?
Speaker: Our food pantry is what I like to call repeatable and sustainable.
Speaker: That's the word, right?
Speaker: And what we try to do, Lynette, even with the FCI churches that we have, is to create ministries that can keep going, right?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: We're not into events now.
Speaker: We're into experiences.
Speaker: And you have people come through the food bank.
Speaker: That's why there's music playing.
Speaker: That's why a prayer goes forth.
Speaker: That's why people are greeting them.
Speaker: And they feel empowered because they're just like they're in the grocery store, right?
Speaker: We want to have an experience for them.
Speaker: And then...
Speaker: We partner with the Food Bank and Food Lion, and they've come out to do a little cooking show at one point.
Speaker: We have Pam talking about resources.
Speaker: And so the volunteers we have are absolutely amazing.
Speaker: And we and Pam have the job to make sure
Speaker: that we keep our volunteers in a good place, that they're happy, that they feel good.
Speaker: And then they keep the people who come in and be served.
Speaker: They keep them happy.
Speaker: They keep them good.
Speaker: It's like a chain reaction, right?
Speaker: And so, but that happens every single Wednesday.
Speaker: We have a volunteer group that comes in shops on Tuesday.
Speaker: They stock on Tuesday and we all serve on Wednesday.
Speaker: You're talking about, it's going to take, you know, 15 and 19 volunteers a week
Speaker: to make sure that it's happened.
Speaker: And they love doing it, right?
Speaker: That's the ministry that happens every single week.
Speaker: She mentioned housing.
Speaker: We just signed an agreement with some wonderful nonprofits around the city where they're going to develop 16 units of affordable housing for our elderly population.
Speaker: And we're working to making sure that it's equitable,
Speaker: in the area that it's in.
Speaker: And for the first time, they're also building these homes for individuals who are differently abled.
Speaker: And so they, they, they, they're too old to live at home with mom and dad, but not old enough to live by themselves.
Speaker: And so they're creating these smaller homes that will have all types of gadgets, like a smart home and there'll be small units.
Speaker: And so we've been working on this for like two and a half years.
Speaker: And so, yeah,
Speaker: Got the signatures and that's going to be off and coming.
Speaker: The first demo shall start about in three weeks.
Speaker: And so we work with housing and it's so fulfilling because we feel that God looks down on us and says, you know, please with what you're doing.
Speaker: That's what I want.
Speaker: And to any pastor, I encourage them.
Speaker: I mean, it's a blow up when the pastor comes in and he's a part of the community or she is.
Speaker: It's a glow up when you have your members who are a part of it.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so not only do I sit on boards in the community, but Pam sits on the board of the Red Cross here.
Speaker: You know, Pam also sits on the committee when it comes to the food bank.
Speaker: We got another member who sits on the board of Red Cross.
Speaker: We got a member who sits on the board of an organization called Nourish NC and they focus on.
Speaker: on community work with children who are starving and in poverty.
Speaker: It's a wonderful opportunity.
Speaker: So we have another member that sits on the executive board of the NAACP.
Speaker: So to sit back as a pastor and see members getting involved in the community, they have taken the heart of God, taken the path back.
Speaker: of that pastor, whether it's a male or female, and they're going out as well.
Speaker: So then it's the church now involved in the community.
Speaker: Church now, a part of the community.
Speaker: And then in Methodist, if the pastor leaves, guess what?
Speaker: The ministry's still there.
Speaker: I might take Pam with me, but if... I'll take Chief.
Speaker: I'm going to take her with me.
Speaker: But the ministry stays in the community because that will be there.
Speaker: So it's something that we're working towards.
Speaker: We got some things in place and more and more.
Speaker: We just added another member today to the FCI class.
Speaker: So we're getting more members involved.
Speaker: We believe at St.
Speaker: Luke, there's no bench warmers.
Speaker: You are like basketball.
Speaker: You are not riding the pine.
Speaker: We don't have no six women of the year or six men of the year.
Speaker: Everybody starts.
Speaker: Everybody.
Speaker: I'm kind of visualizing like a guest or a visitor coming to St.
Speaker: Luke and already like getting signed up for a service.
Speaker: We're going to give you some good training, right?
Speaker: Jesus took his disciples and taught them before he sent them out.
Speaker: So we're going to give you some good training.
Speaker: But no, you ain't got no whole year or two to find out what you're going to do.
Speaker: We're going to help you because, you know, the old African proverb said, many hands make the work light.
Speaker: So we try to get as many hands involved as we can.
Speaker: sounds like your membership classes are a mixture of also community partnership but i actually want to go there for the congregations and the pastors saying like i want my members to get there actually i feel like i adapt my sermons and i'm trying i'm leading by example but my members aren't there yet maybe pamela you can or share this maybe a story but what really got you saying i'm gonna do that too
Speaker: And also I'm wondering, like, what would your members say that you see engaged?
Speaker: Because you said some of them are on the board.
Speaker: Some of them are active in the community.
Speaker: They're out doing the work.
Speaker: Why do we see some churches still in the glow up phase where it's like just the pastor or the leader?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It could be for various reasons, Lynette.
Speaker: I can say that personally for me and what I can really see at St.
Speaker: Luke, what has helped with the progression of getting people more involved is your walk with karate.
Speaker: I think it starts there.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I personally feel it starts there.
Speaker: Your love for Christ.
Speaker: Because I have to constantly remind myself that, yeah, I'm not doing this for St.
Speaker: Luke.
Speaker: I'm not doing this for Pastor, you know, even though he pulls my neck and make me do it.
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: I'm not doing this for a pastor.
Speaker: I do this because I really love Jesus.
Speaker: I love Jesus.
Speaker: And I love him with my whole heart.
Speaker: So you really have to be a servant, a servant of Christ, you know,
Speaker: And when you begin to get to that part in your walk with Christ, it's not gravy, but it becomes easier, you know, because God will give you whatever you need to begin to do this progression in ministry.
Speaker: When I first started working, I was always engaged in ministry, but not on this level, not on the capacity of maybe working on boards or doing this.
Speaker: And I even think back to what I do working in pediatrics.
Speaker: I often say, God, you got a sense of humor because I get frustrated sometimes.
Speaker: But what I do, I am reviving people.
Speaker: reforming families because even in my daily full-time job, I'm doing ministry.
Speaker: I'm doing ministry of, sometimes I may have a family that fully don't understand.
Speaker: I am referring them to resources that they may not know.
Speaker: I am, you know, helping a family in the guidelines that I can go
Speaker: in certain ways.
Speaker: And that's just in my work, in being as an employee.
Speaker: But as I become, as I get in ministry, as it, you, I try to help encourage people.
Speaker: We just finished a new members class.
Speaker: I just said that last Thursday.
Speaker: And I personally don't
Speaker: Yes, we don't want bench warmers, but I also want people to find where they are with their walk with Christ.
Speaker: When they find where they are and as they begin to learn, are you a server?
Speaker: Find what it is that helps you to know how you can help serve people, help be a servant of Christ.
Speaker: How can you do that?
Speaker: How can you humble yourself?
Speaker: you know, more to hear the people, you know, how can you love the people that you may not love you back?
Speaker: You know, how can you be a doer, a server of Christ that you can go into a community or be a part of a community that you really don't have to be a part of?
Speaker: Because I really can get in my car on Sundays and come back on Sundays, but that's not
Speaker: I love God too much and I love people too much to do that.
Speaker: That when I see a need and I know that's something that needs to be done, my heart and my love for Christ won't let me do it.
Speaker: It will not let me turn my back.
Speaker: And I can say that that's where the members are progressing into.
Speaker: And I can take the example of our volunteers that's in the Revive Mart.
Speaker: I've seen
Speaker: the progression of their love for the people progressing on the, on a level.
Speaker: And that takes the love of karate, you know, because when you got people that maybe weren't as used to being in the community, really wasn't used to working with people face to face, all different diversity of people, needs of people, um,
Speaker: But now you can watch them really interact with people on a sincere base.
Speaker: That's the love of Christ.
Speaker: That's the love of Christ that's beginning to soften their hearts.
Speaker: And that's where you want is their hearts to be softened, their minds to be, you know, really changed.
Speaker: Because if your minds are not changing, your heart is not changed, you cannot do the work of Christ.
Speaker: We cannot really show the love for his people the way that we need to.
Speaker: So that's what I would say that I have seen that.
Speaker: more into the church where people really want to get.
Speaker: Like, for instance, last week I announced, okay, we're going to be doing this for the teachers.
Speaker: Please sign up.
Speaker: You know, people started signing up.
Speaker: You know, it used to be a time where I could say something and like, oh, pastor, I haven't got one to do it yet.
Speaker: I haven't got, or it'd be the same one.
Speaker: But when you can, over time,
Speaker: to see people's hearts change and their minds change, that's when you know that God is really in the part of it.
Speaker: He's really in the plan because God knows what we need as a ministry.
Speaker: He already knows what we're going to encounter.
Speaker: He knows the people that we need.
Speaker: And so the only thing we can do is ask God is change their hearts, change their minds so that they can really be the servants of Christ that we need to be to work in the community.
Speaker: It sounds like through the years, historically, you guys have invested and changed the picture of what it looks like to be a church with a community.
Speaker: So when people are saying like, I have need, I know where to go.
Speaker: Man, my health ain't right.
Speaker: I'm gonna go to St.
Speaker: Luke.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: Like what an incredible image.
Speaker: Usually people say like, I need to get right with God and he should.
Speaker: Why do you get right with God?
Speaker: I'm gonna go to church.
Speaker: What does it look like for people who say I have a need, any kind of need, bodily need, physical needs, spiritual needs to say I'm gonna go to church and my church people are gonna help me out.
Speaker: Anyway, that's that excited me.
Speaker: That's exciting.
Speaker: We could keep going for hours, it feels like.
Speaker: But I want to close this with two more questions is,
Speaker: You two have said you want to be part of the Flourishing Congregations Initiative, which is an initiative brought about by CCDA.
Speaker: I'm curious to know, Pastor Jermaine, what drew you to the Flourishing Congregations Initiative and what do you hope to achieve?
Speaker: And maybe what are some takeaways thus far?
Speaker: Yeah, I think the word flourishing, I feel that St.
Speaker: Luke is not flourish, we're flourishing, right?
Speaker: That ING makes us believe that we're still growing and there's still to do.
Speaker: So, you know,
Speaker: During the pandemic, when everybody was at home doing church on Zoom, St.
Speaker: Luke would say that service is a new worship.
Speaker: We were doing more service in the community than being in the church in worship.
Speaker: So service became a new worship.
Speaker: And we really latched on to that.
Speaker: I believe now that partnership is the new sponsorship.
Speaker: And so anybody that we can partner with,
Speaker: that is doing the same work, has the same vision and passion that we have.
Speaker: And whether you're in your respective areas, if you're doing that work, we want to connect with you.
Speaker: We want you to connect with us.
Speaker: So being a part of the flourishing communities initiatives, that's what that was, that we wanted to be a part of a group of churches that had the desire to grow, that we could impact and that we could, maybe our story and testimony could be a help to them.
Speaker: We would learn an education major.
Speaker: And so I believe that teachers are lifelong learners.
Speaker: So we're still learning as we're growing as well.
Speaker: And so that's why we wanted to be a part of it.
Speaker: And so we're just looking forward to flourishing, flourishing together.
Speaker: Amen.
Speaker: Amen.
Speaker: So we've reached the end and I wanted to end our time asking a question we ask at every episode is how do you see the CCDA philosophy at work in your community?
Speaker: We talked a little about holistic.
Speaker: We talked about empowerment.
Speaker: We heard about empowerment, church-based, but is there one in specific that you're like today, this week, or this is one we want to lean into?
Speaker: How are you seeing it at work in your community?
Speaker: One of the things that CCDA believes in and their philosophy is not churches just doing for the community, but churches doing it with the community.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so St.
Speaker: Luke is growing to that.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I think we were so gung ho on wanting to help.
Speaker: So we started doing it.
Speaker: But now we're going into it's not just encouragement, but it's empowerment.
Speaker: Like you taking of your community and.
Speaker: I mean, we live on, our church is on the south side of Wilmington, which is considered a hot spot where there's a little bit of everything.
Speaker: We got a little bit of, you know, like Donnie and Marie.
Speaker: We got a little bit country and a little bit rock and roll, right?
Speaker: So you can see a house down the street from us that looks like it's some illegal activity going on.
Speaker: It's an Airbnb.
Speaker: You know, it's a melting pot, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So in that community, it helps us to be diverse of needs.
Speaker: But we're working at doing things with the community.
Speaker: And just on yesterday at our Revive Mart, one of the guys came in and he shopped and got his food.
Speaker: And he came up to me and was like, hey, Pastor, go.
Speaker: When do y'all start at 11?
Speaker: I said, yeah, we 11, 11 to 1.
Speaker: Okay, I'm going to come volunteer.
Speaker: And the lady up there got my name, and I'm going to come volunteer.
Speaker: And I'm like, man, come on.
Speaker: He got, I mean, he tatted up.
Speaker: I mean, he illustrated, man.
Speaker: He got ink and everything, you know, where he came from.
Speaker: But he's from around the way.
Speaker: And he said, I'm going to come help.
Speaker: And so that's what we want.
Speaker: We got a person that we're helping, a part of the community, now want to come and help and volunteer.
Speaker: And as soon as that interaction happened, Lynette, I'm going to come.
Speaker: I thought of the CCD philosophy.
Speaker: That's what we want to do.
Speaker: We want to empower you to help.
Speaker: We used to have a food.
Speaker: Well, we did hot meals.
Speaker: We did a grocery store and we had people from the community come in.
Speaker: Our neighbors would come through.
Speaker: So there's a young lady who came through
Speaker: All the time.
Speaker: Now she has not missed a Sunday at church for the last two years.
Speaker: She was coming to that.
Speaker: We call it hump day where you get a hot meal.
Speaker: She was coming to get a hot meal.
Speaker: She had nothing to eat.
Speaker: Now she sits in the second row of the church and doesn't miss Sunday.
Speaker: When you talk, Lynette, about, you know, how people can say, oh, I want Jesus.
Speaker: I'm going to go to church because more people come to Christ out of desperation than devotion anyway, statistically.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But you may have a few that says, oh, I want to come to church.
Speaker: I want Jesus.
Speaker: But even the model of Christ was people needed something and then they came to him.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I need to be healed.
Speaker: I'm bringing my son.
Speaker: I got an issue of blood.
Speaker: I'm coming.
Speaker: They ain't coming because they just wanted Jesus.
Speaker: They came for what he was going to do.
Speaker: And then they got it.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: I believe that we're in that model that people know they can come to St.
Speaker: Luke because you're going to get some food.
Speaker: They know you can come to St.
Speaker: Luke because, you know, we'll help pay a bill.
Speaker: We'll go down there.
Speaker: We just did an application for a young girl who's trying to move from one place to another.
Speaker: She's trying to build her life back up.
Speaker: She want to get in better housing.
Speaker: Sixty five dollar application fee.
Speaker: We sent one of our members over there to go pay it.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So, you know, you can get that met.
Speaker: I mean, when it comes to.
Speaker: blood pressure cuffs, you know, helping out, you can come to St.
Speaker: Luke and get that.
Speaker: When it comes to being supported by teachers, you can come and get that.
Speaker: So there's so many needs that God allows us to meet that people know if they come there, they're going to get their need met.
Speaker: And if you stay around a Sunday, you're going to get a little shout in Jesus too.
Speaker: So it's a win-win, but yeah, but thank you for that question.
Speaker: Beautiful.
Speaker: Just the places I want to be at.
Speaker: Well, that takes us to the end.
Speaker: And I just want to thank you so much, Sister Pamela Evans and Dr. Germain Armour for your time today and your stories and your deep enthusiasm for seeing communities transformed.
Speaker: Thank you for listening to the CCDA podcast and thank you for joining us.
Speaker: If you want to learn more about the CCDA and get involved with Pamela and Jermaine and their Revive Mart, wherever it is that they're at in Wilmington, we ask you to check out the show notes in this episode.
Speaker: Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker: This episode is produced by Sarah Callen in association with Christina Forer.
Speaker: We'll be back soon with another episode featuring CCD practitioners who are committed to seeing people and communities experience bad shalom.
Speaker: We'll see you then.
Speaker: Goodbye.
