Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the CCDA Podcast.
Speaker: My name is Christina Fora and I am the Director of Engagement and Mobilization at CCDA and I am your host for this episode.
Speaker: Today I am honored to be joined by Pastor Carlos Ricón, a pastor in Los Angeles and a member of our Flourishing Congregations Initiative.
Speaker: We will be discussing today what's been happening in Los Angeles, what it's like for his community, and some ways we can support our familia at this time.
Speaker: So, Pastor Carlos, thank you so much for being here.
Speaker: And to start off, I was wondering if you can just share a little bit about who you are and your community and give us a picture of that.
Speaker: Yes, thank you.
Speaker: Thank you for having me and giving me the opportunity to share not only what's going on in the city, but especially, you know, the things that we're doing to help the community.
Speaker: Well, my name is Carlos Rincon.
Speaker: Originally, I'm from Mexico.
Speaker: But I've been a pastor in this community for 28 years.
Speaker: Same church.
Speaker: My wife and I started the church about 30 years ago.
Speaker: Right after we got married, a week after, we started the church.
Speaker: So thankfully, we've been there, married to each other, happily married, but also married to the church and to the community, actually, because I don't see myself as a pastor of a church and, you know, within four walls, but I'm a pastor in the city.
Speaker: I pastor in a city and the city and the members of this community, you know, are my focus, my everything that I do is, you know, for the welfare of this community.
Speaker: And our church is located in a community that is called East Los Angeles.
Speaker: We recently, well not recently, about 10 years ago, moved there from downtown Los Angeles.
Speaker: So most of the members of our church are from downtown Los Angeles, South Los Angeles, and East Los Angeles.
Speaker: And those communities mostly are Latinos, recent arrival people, like immigrants.
Speaker: And we serve about 250 families.
Speaker: uh you know immigrants and their children we have first second even third generation Latinos mostly Latinos and we have one uh Japanese you know member that is married to a Latina you know he's a member of our congregation in the past even we used to have some people from Vietnam too but they moved from the city so it's a it's a inner city church that serves mostly Latino families
Speaker: because that's what we are surrounded by, you know, by Latino families.
Speaker: And how is your community kind of already experiencing escalation before all the kind of recent news and before it became national news?
Speaker: Like, how was your community experiencing these things?
Speaker: Well, before this new administration, you know, started the period, and even during the campaigns, you know, hearing the rhetoric about, you know, they're going against criminals, but, you know, they're
Speaker: some people didn't really realize that he was not talking about real criminals.
Speaker: You know, so people didn't pay much attention, you know, to that.
Speaker: There was, a lot of people just dismissed it as, oh, this politics, just, you know, empty words.
Speaker: But a lot of people know, they were really, including myself, you know, calling for, we need to get prepared.
Speaker: And a lot of the families were really afraid after, you know,
Speaker: This nail minister started even before because of the threats to our community.
Speaker: He was talking about massive deportation.
Speaker: So people started asking me, even people started asking me, Pastor, if I'm deported, will you take my children?
Speaker: Can I sign any documents so you can take care of us if we are taken?
Speaker: Some people started asking those questions.
Speaker: Because we have a nonprofit that deals with social economics development in the community.
Speaker: About the businesses.
Speaker: I'm very much involved in the community.
Speaker: very often go to the businesses, especially small businesses, which mostly are Latinos here in my community, and talk to the business owners.
Speaker: And I saw the fear in a lot of them.
Speaker: And it really impacted the community.
Speaker: I always say that, you know, where our church is located, we were experiencing a revival of food trucks.
Speaker: Because, you know, in a couple of lives, you saw, I'm not exaggerating, but probably about 30 or 40 different food trucks, all kinds of foods.
Speaker: So the streets were full of people, especially on the weekends.
Speaker: But after this administration started, you know, the streets were empty.
Speaker: People were afraid.
Speaker: Even, you know, the raising didn't start fully, but people were not going to work for a couple of weeks.
Speaker: Because there was a lot of apprehension and fear, real fear on the people.
Speaker: That's when people started realizing, oh, this is serious.
Speaker: You know, it's about, you know, it's about, you know, coming for everyone, not just for like, you know, we were promised for criminals, so-called criminals.
Speaker: But they started, they were taking everyone.
Speaker: So that's how, you know, people were, even before, you know, this administration started in January 8th.
Speaker: Yeah, I appreciate a lot of how you're talking about just like kind of humanizing.
Speaker: And you and I have talked a lot about what does it look like to change these narratives, right?
Speaker: Because we're hearing these narratives from the current climate of who immigrants are and how they're...
Speaker: Some were criminals and all these things, but then we know from living and working alongside and loving your community that this isn't true, right?
Speaker: These are people who are parents or family members or sons and daughters or business owners or people contributing to the community and
Speaker: What you shared even about the food trucks, I think I've heard from multiple people and CCD members in LA who said it feels like ghost towns because of just the fear.
Speaker: The tios and tias are the vendors on the streets that I see every day.
Speaker: They're not there.
Speaker: And so I'm just curious about what narratives do you wish people knew that are different from what people are hearing in the media or the news right now?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: First of all, immigrants are not criminals.
Speaker: I know that because I've been working with immigrants for the last almost 40 years.
Speaker: I have dedicated my life to work and pray and laugh and celebrate.
Speaker: And, you know, I helped through the church and the nonprofit, I started so many businesses.
Speaker: I have so many testimonies of immigrants.
Speaker: Even with no documentation, I started, you know, a lot of businesses here in the community, people that
Speaker: They not only are entrepreneurial, but they love this country.
Speaker: They feel that this is a place that they can raise their family.
Speaker: They see the opportunities in this country that they couldn't have.
Speaker: In my case, I'm from Mexico, Guatemala, or any other country.
Speaker: So they're hardworking.
Speaker: When they talk about the immigrants, people don't realize that they're, you know, families, a lot of mixed status, you know.
Speaker: If you take the parents, what's going to happen with the two, three, four, you know, or children?
Speaker: Who's going to...
Speaker: It's going to take care of them because they're Americans.
Speaker: So one of the spouses is documentation.
Speaker: And a lot of people also talk about why don't they get documentation?
Speaker: You know, they've been in the country for a long time.
Speaker: They've been in the country, you know, for.
Speaker: I have family in my church, families.
Speaker: that have been in the country for 30 years, and they try everything.
Speaker: They spend thousands of dollars trying to get legalized, you know, get documented.
Speaker: But it's impossible.
Speaker: You know, our system is broken.
Speaker: There's no way.
Speaker: People get on the line.
Speaker: There's no line.
Speaker: Literally, there's no line.
Speaker: Just to give an example, you know, I was one of the first in my family to become a U.S. citizen, and I petitioned for my family.
Speaker: And that was in the 90s.
Speaker: It took 40 years for them to get a green card.
Speaker: Right now, if I start the same process, it takes more than 30 years.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: So definitely, you know, people, you know, are in the shadows, not because they want to, not because it's, you know, it's because the system is broken.
Speaker: But when, you know, it breaks my heart when I see, oh, you know, they're, you know, taking advantage of the system, you know, they don't pay taxes.
Speaker: This is hardworking people that are paying billions and billions.
Speaker: You know, here in Los Angeles, they contribute close to 90%.
Speaker: billion dollars a year just in the economy here in the county of Los Angeles.
Speaker: So these are members, you know, that have been living, working, raising a family, you know, it's just regular folks that are trying to live a life.
Speaker: And also, they are grateful for the opportunity to be in this country.
Speaker: And they're...
Speaker: one of the most committed Christians that I know.
Speaker: And because a lot of my leaders, because in our church, we don't ask about documentation, you know, to be a member of our church, even to be in the leadership.
Speaker: You know, elders or leaders or in our church are some of those people that people call criminals.
Speaker: But they're helping families.
Speaker: They're changing the community.
Speaker: They're, you know, working hard even after they work 40, 60 hours, you know,
Speaker: a week, they commit another, sometimes five, six hours more just to help other families, to bring into faith, to believe in Christ, to be part of a family and help us continue serving our community.
Speaker: So these are the people that we do.
Speaker: It's my family.
Speaker: For me, this is personal.
Speaker: Some people ask me, why are you so committed?
Speaker: Why are you on the streets?
Speaker: Because they're taking away my family.
Speaker: They're, yeah, and I use this word very carefully, kidnapping my family, because in a lot of cases,
Speaker: And I know this because I've been in the streets.
Speaker: I've been in front of ICE.
Speaker: I've been in front of Border Patrol, you know, trying to ask and even in front of the, you know, National Guard or Marines.
Speaker: I've been participating in a lot of, you know, nonviolent because I'm a follower of Christ.
Speaker: You know, he said, blessed are the peacemakers.
Speaker: And I truly believe that, you know, even a couple of weeks ago, we were asking that simple question to the National Guard.
Speaker: You know, my wife, myself, and about 20 other clergymen in front of them, you know, National Guard, outside of a detention center here in downtown Los Angeles, just asking a simple question.
Speaker: Where are the families?
Speaker: Where are the families?
Speaker: That's all we want to know.
Speaker: Because once a person is taken, it's almost impossible to find where they are.
Speaker: Sometimes overnight, if they can, they just are deported without no process.
Speaker: especially from some countries like Mexico, because it's just across the border.
Speaker: But you want to help someone.
Speaker: Okay, we have lawyers.
Speaker: I'm part of a lot of different organizations in the community that are ready to help, to assist.
Speaker: But they take the people overnight to Louisiana, to Texas, and all different places to get the people isolated.
Speaker: So they don't have no one to help them.
Speaker: So it's horrible.
Speaker: We were asking just a simple question.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, where are the families?
Speaker: We want to help them.
Speaker: Just let, you know, allow us to help.
Speaker: Allow us to, you know, so they have the opportunity, you know, to defend, to present a case, you know, because a lot of them are somehow is going to take time, years, but there's a possibility that they can get legalized in this country.
Speaker: But right now, you know, they're incommunicated and a lot of the families still after weeks, they don't know where their, you know, husband, husband,
Speaker: you know, the grandparents, and even children, they don't know where they are.
Speaker: So hopefully people, you know, on the nation or whoever's listening to this podcast, you know, understand what is going on in our city and probably in other parts of the country.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: And I appreciate, I think a lot of times I've been realizing over this, the course of this year, especially just that a lot of times we're conflating kind of what it is to see people on a human level and what it is to see people on a legal level.
Speaker: And we
Speaker: kind of lose our compassion and empathy when we conflate both of those.
Speaker: And so I think just even for our listeners on this podcast, we're trying to do a lot of like, how do we see our immigrant family as like other human beings that are worthy of the dignity and value that God has given all of us?
Speaker: And if you have legal questions, we can put our webinar in the show notes so you can learn more about what the legal process is because we could spend another two hours on this podcast talking about the immigration system alone.
Speaker: But I really appreciate you sharing about just like there's a lot of nuances in what is going on with families, what's happening with people's jobs, what's happening with people's kids.
Speaker: It's very, like, we have to just be considering that with the questions we even ask about what's happening right now.
Speaker: Like, why are we asking these questions?
Speaker: Like, who are the people that we're talking about really?
Speaker: Like, and what is a Christ-like way to respond as a result?
Speaker: I wanted to hear a little bit too about just what are some ways right now, I know you've shared some already about what you're seeing on the ground, but are there more things that you'd like to share kind of what's happening in LA that I know you've shared before that it's a little bit unprecedented from your 30 plus years here?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Let me just give an example.
Speaker: It was two weeks, close to two weeks ago that there was a raid in a Home Depot.
Speaker: You know, people that are just asking for work.
Speaker: That's all they do, asking for work.
Speaker: And early in the morning, they were taken.
Speaker: And people in the community found out and they started congregating, not, you know, dozens, but hundreds of people came from the community, neighbors and family that were, you know, concerned.
Speaker: And things started, you know, going bad because
Speaker: I don't know who it was, but it was, you know, from the immigration, Homeland Security, I don't know who they are.
Speaker: But they started shooting those people.
Speaker: And, you know, gas, you know, tear gas, those people.
Speaker: And I'm part of a coalition of pastors that we have committed to bring peace to our streets.
Speaker: So they call me, because I've been not extensively, but how training, deescalating those kinds of situations.
Speaker: So I went with my wife to just to pray on the streets.
Speaker: And there were thousands of people, you know, and, you know,
Speaker: What is my family?
Speaker: What are my parents?
Speaker: You know, don't, you know, please, you know, we want to know.
Speaker: And when we got almost on the front of this confrontation, in reality, it was people were hungry.
Speaker: You know, they were yelling and saying, you know, and they're angry, a lot of stuff.
Speaker: But mostly nonviolent, just yelling and, you know, we disagree, you know, don't deport, you know, our brothers and sisters, deport us, things like that.
Speaker: You know, people get offended for that.
Speaker: But, you know, when they're taking your family and you don't know where they are, people react.
Speaker: So I was in the midst of everything this and, you know, people started again, again.
Speaker: shooting bullets and gas.
Speaker: And it was mostly young people were gas and I saw some of them running, you know, away from that confrontation, just, you know, sitting on a gas station outside of the gas station.
Speaker: A lot of them just vomiting and some passed out.
Speaker: And I saw, you know, an old lady, you know, she was here on the forehead and she was
Speaker: Bleeding a lot.
Speaker: People were trying to help her.
Speaker: They saw me because I had my clergy attire, so people would identify me as a pastor.
Speaker: They started calling me, oh, please come and pray for us.
Speaker: Right there on the street, we had a prayer rally.
Speaker: You know, many people came, you know, from all backgrounds, but most of them were young people.
Speaker: Most of them were young people, let's say, to the first age.
Speaker: And then I remember a girl, like, I don't know what age, she got glasses because the gas, I never experienced, you know, tear gas, it's horrible.
Speaker: I was praying, crying, rubbing my eyes, trying to speak with the mask.
Speaker: I had to pull out my mask.
Speaker: So it was a chaos, but she came and she was in tears.
Speaker: She was shaking.
Speaker: Can you please pray with me?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, of course, I can pray with you.
Speaker: It's because my father was taken.
Speaker: And I'm heartbroken.
Speaker: I don't know where they took him.
Speaker: just praying for her in the street until she felt a little bit better.
Speaker: And then we continued walking towards the center of everything, trying to calm people.
Speaker: I had a bullhorn, trying to calm things.
Speaker: de-escalate and when I was in front of, you know, Border Patrol or ICE or I don't know who they are because they all wear masks and glasses and, you know, they look more like soldiers going to a war.
Speaker: They saw me because I had my Clary attire and my wife also and I had a Bible, you know, in my hand and an American flag, you know, on the other hand.
Speaker: And I felt probably they're going to respect me, you know.
Speaker: Nah.
Speaker: They didn't respect it, they started shooting me.
Speaker: Thankfully, my wife was super fast.
Speaker: She ran behind a, you know, a list, she could escape, you know, concrete wall.
Speaker: She could escape the bullets, but not the gas.
Speaker: And the only thing is, when I saw my wife and I saw she was safe, the only place because bullets started, even I hear my ears flying all over and I started seeing people being hit and falling in the ground.
Speaker: And with the gases, I saw that people bomb it.
Speaker: It was a cow.
Speaker: So I was flying behind a tree.
Speaker: Thankfully, the tree saved me because a lot of bullets hit the tree.
Speaker: And when everything happened,
Speaker: I went with my wife and started praying with the people because that's who we are.
Speaker: We are pastors and this is our city.
Speaker: That is Vienna talk.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: There's too many stories like that.
Speaker: Even I was sharing with you, you know, a week after that, along with other pastors, we went to the detention center in downtown Los Angeles to pray and to ask a simple question.
Speaker: Where are the families?
Speaker: Because what they do, people, clearly, you don't know who they represent.
Speaker: Which department they represent, they only say police.
Speaker: And sometimes they don't even have no uniform.
Speaker: The only thing that they have are, you know, dark glasses, masks that cover the whole face.
Speaker: And they just randomly on the streets stop people, you know, even gardeners.
Speaker: I know of a family that the gardener was doing, you know, mowing the grass.
Speaker: And they just took him, you know, hit him and gassed him and took him away.
Speaker: Even though he was the father of three Marines, U.S. Marines.
Speaker: The only crime for more than 30 years living in this country was he doesn't have documentation.
Speaker: They took him and they don't know the family where he is at.
Speaker: So we were asking the question, where are the families?
Speaker: And we saw the, you know, they were, I don't know.
Speaker: I don't remember if it was National Guard or Marines at that time, both were in the city.
Speaker: And they were like, they're not ready to be policed, you know, to keep the tears.
Speaker: Because
Speaker: any movement, anything, the first reaction they have is they raise their rifles and put the finger in the trigger and aim at us.
Speaker: And it was mostly pastors there.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Even at one time, just to show that, you know, we're really here for, you know, nonviolent, just peacefully asking a question.
Speaker: A lot of us, you know,
Speaker: kneeled up and started praying, but that even scared them.
Speaker: Just to see all the pray.
Speaker: Uh, he was very scary mom because I thought that they want to start shooting us.
Speaker: Thankfully they didn't do it, but this is the things that are going on.
Speaker: And, you know, suddenly we were, you know, singing because we were singing this little light of mine.
Speaker: Sorry, I'm not a little singer, but those kind of songs, you know, we're just singing, you know, you know, make me a sanctuary, you know, you know, of your presence in this moment.
Speaker: A lot of songs, you know, special songs.
Speaker: that all faiths could sing, you know, because it was an all faith meeting, you know, trying to ask these questions.
Speaker: And suddenly, eyes came with all the tracks and with all the, you know, bands and cars that they use.
Speaker: And some people in the back that didn't belong to a group, you know, young people also started to hit with, you know, batons or something, you know, the cars.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: And it became again another pins moment.
Speaker: But what some of us did,
Speaker: we defended the bans and immigration because we're not there to cause any harm.
Speaker: So literally, I was asking questions to the National Guard about our people, but we ended up defending the eyes of Border Patrol agents because that's who we are.
Speaker: We represent Christ.
Speaker: And, you know, we're not there to cause any harm or anything like that.
Speaker: But it was a very tense moment that I feel that I had to be there because the church has to be there when there is a need.
Speaker: You know, being a pastor in my city is about being there when there is a need, but being there with compassion.
Speaker: It's like Christ.
Speaker: The Bible says that he saw the multitudes and he felt compassion.
Speaker: So for me, I got to be there.
Speaker: But I got to be there with compassion if I want to follow Christ.
Speaker: So even if it means to protect a water patrol agent, it's the same.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Thanks for sharing, Pastor.
Speaker: Those are just very powerful images and stories.
Speaker: And I know that those are just reflective of the greater kind of things that are happening in L.A.
Speaker: too.
Speaker: So I appreciate it.
Speaker: And even just the, I think there's so many glimpses of
Speaker: Just Jesus in those spaces that you shared in the midst of these chaos and confusion that it's just like really powerful for me to even understand like the ways that I'm understanding Jesus or the ways my paradigm is shifting as a result of that is powerful.
Speaker: I wanted to actually, this might be a little unprecedented for podcasts, but I actually wanted to pause a little bit.
Speaker: I think I sensed kind of like a heaviness of just the stories.
Speaker: And I know those were just a few, but I really wanted to take a moment and maybe we could pray for the families and for the families in detention or the people that are in detention centers for ICE and Border Patrol that I just, yeah, I just really feel that we need
Speaker: our powerful God to do something, you know, and to move, but also to mobilize His people and kind of not be scared in the midst of all of this fear to be able to ask where are our families or to be able to reunite people with their families and their communities.
Speaker: So I'm just going to take a little time to pray really quick and then we'll continue our questions.
Speaker: But Jesus, yeah, we come before you and we lay down kind of all of these things at your feet.
Speaker: We pray, Father, for the people that have been detained.
Speaker: We pray that you would...
Speaker: help families to find one another, that you would, Lord, make that way and those paths clear in some way, some miraculous way.
Speaker: Lord, I pray that you would let especially the families that Pastor Carlos has mentioned today be able to find their loved ones.
Speaker: We also pray for Border Patrol and for ICE and for the Marines and the National Guard that are all there in LA.
Speaker: I pray
Speaker: that they would have compassion too, Father.
Speaker: They would be able to use discretion and see one another as humans, see the people they're interacting with in the human way.
Speaker: I pray for people showing up in these peaceful protests, Lord.
Speaker: I pray for the pastors that are showing up for their community.
Speaker: I pray for protection.
Speaker: I pray for continued courage and boldness.
Speaker: I pray for hope in the middle of despair.
Speaker: And I pray for those who are still waiting, kind of wondering, especially people who follow you, wondering where to take part.
Speaker: I pray that you would give them the courage to combat whatever fear they might have to stand on behalf of justice for their neighbors, for their community.
Speaker: We pray this in your name.
Speaker: Amen.
Speaker: Amen.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I could give you more examples.
Speaker: Also, now as a pastor of a congregation, how this is affecting the members of my church.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, last week on, I don't remember, Tuesday, Wednesday, sorry, I received a call or actually text from one of our leaders and
Speaker: So we have a department ministry that we call Bernabéas, Bernabé in Spanish, because that's how we help people that have needs.
Speaker: And she also is part of another group that we call Mateo 25, that help us with people right now in this moment, you know, with anything that has to do with immigration.
Speaker: So when there is a need, she's a person that people call for my congregation.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And she's an immigrant herself.
Speaker: And she started testing me, Pastor, there are families in our congregation here where we lived that they haven't been able to work for almost a week.
Speaker: They are so afraid of coming out because, you know, they may be taken.
Speaker: because they're taking people on the bus, they're taking people wherever.
Speaker: Just randomly, if you're walking on the street and you look Latino, they detain you or they take you away.
Speaker: That's something that people need to understand, just because you look Latino, literally.
Speaker: And they were not able, that's when, you know, a lot of the Marines and the National Guard, instead of just being in the federal building, started going on the streets.
Speaker: And she told me, I don't know what to do because people are texting me and calling me.
Speaker: They're desperate because they're hungry.
Speaker: They need to go to the market.
Speaker: But specifically, that's the word she used.
Speaker: There are soldiers, tanks of war, and all kind of, you know, soldiers surrounding Latino markets.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: If people go, they're taken away just because they're going to buy food for their families.
Speaker: So we don't know what to do.
Speaker: And I was in the midst of also doing something.
Speaker: So I said, okay, just give me a moment.
Speaker: But try to organize and do something.
Speaker: Let me just finish what I'm doing.
Speaker: When I got back, still agreed to the leaders of the church.
Speaker: Or what they did, some of them have, you know,
Speaker: children, you know, 12, 14, 15 years of age.
Speaker: So they are the ones that are going to the market and buying the food for the family because they're American citizens.
Speaker: Of course, they are taking the risk.
Speaker: And so that's how it's, you know,
Speaker: People are not able even to buy food.
Speaker: So last Sunday, yesterday, I gathered all the, because we have cell groups throughout the city, I gathered all the cell leaders and I asked them, you know, how are the people?
Speaker: What are the situations?
Speaker: Thankfully, we were able to organize and if anyone in our church has any need, if they want to go to the doctor appointment or they want to go to buy food or anything, you know, thankfully the church is...
Speaker: itself organically mostly you know helping each other and for me that's a powerful statement of you know being a family and but it's it has affected us in the church in so many levels of course attendance is way down compared to other times because people are not of are they don't want to leave their homes i have one of my
Speaker: leaders.
Speaker: He has a couple of cell groups in downtown Los Angeles, mostly with high schoolers and middle schoolers, middle schools, young people.
Speaker: They have about 30, probably 30 students working within small groups.
Speaker: And he's been, since the beginning, in his house, not being able to work.
Speaker: We started about two months ago after I finally was able to secure some funding, a music academy because I wanted to bring some of the children, because it's mostly for children from seven to 16 or 17, so they can learn piano, voice and all kinds of instruments because I wanted to, because some of the schools have stopped doing that.
Speaker: So I wanted to do it at the church and also a way eventually for us to make it bigger so we can impact the community.
Speaker: But, you know, it was a heartbroken for me decision to stop for one week because it was so unsafe to drive because you could see soldiers stationed in strategic places throughout the city, stopping people that I didn't want to take the chance.
Speaker: So it was sad to hear the stories of some of the members saying, oh, my child was so sad.
Speaker: you know, he's practicing or she's practicing here in the house, but it's not the same.
Speaker: They're, you know, so sad.
Speaker: So this week, we took the chance and I told them, if you don't feel safe, don't come.
Speaker: But if you want to come and
Speaker: You know, some of them risk beating the tape, but they brought their children to our music academy.
Speaker: And we organized ourselves there at the church, making sure, you know, the gate was closed and people outside in the parking just watching.
Speaker: Because you cannot do anything.
Speaker: You can just watch.
Speaker: Because if they come, because, you know, they are already threatened, you know, in the churches that they even can't go to churches.
Speaker: Yeah, they don't stop if it is a church.
Speaker: So it was so sad for me to be outside last Saturday, you know, being, you know, like, watching the streets, the outside, the parking, just because kids, you know, children want to learn how to play the piano, the drums.
Speaker: That made me super sad.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That I had to do what I'm doing just because I want to see that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's super hard.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Just that image of watching because you don't want the kids or their parents to be detained or separate.
Speaker: It's just that's so heartbreaking to think that something so beautiful can be potential.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: And it was something that we worked hard to be able to open, secure funding for more than a year to do everything.
Speaker: And then suddenly, boom, there is now...
Speaker: You know, just for bringing the kids to learn how to play the piano and, you know, do tune, tune, tune, you know, Christian songs.
Speaker: Because that's what they learned.
Speaker: Because our program is not only about music.
Speaker: They have a devotional before they start the, you know, the music program, because I wanted to be, you know, upfront as a Christian program.
Speaker: And it's not only about learning how to play the piano, but they are being described at the same time.
Speaker: So just for that, parents are threatened to be deported because they're taking the children to this program.
Speaker: It's super hard.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I really appreciate your, like, I think I just hear so much of your just trying to be wise and just trying to figure out what is like wise for my community, what's wise for us, what's wise in this moment, but also like choosing to take courage at times to be able to provide those safe spaces or provide just a moments of joy when there's so much fear and uncertainty, even for your
Speaker: the families in your community um and i think that's saying a lot that the parents would risk you know to bring their children to a music class um i think that's saying a lot of just what they're looking for and hoping for or even the trust that they have in your church in the community for sure yeah it's it's
Speaker: I'm really amazed of some of them.
Speaker: Some stayed, didn't bring their children.
Speaker: You know, our attendance was about 60%, but still some of them chose to bring their children.
Speaker: And just when I saw them, I just, you know, embraced them and told them, you know,
Speaker: anything that I can do for you just let me know."
Speaker: Because they took a chance.
Speaker: They asked for bringing their children to learn how to play the piano.
Speaker: And of course it has affected a lot of the things that we do as a church.
Speaker: We stopped a lot of the ministry that we had, we had some meetings scheduled we had to postpone.
Speaker: A lot of the meetings, like, you know, we have a, we call it a women's network, men's network.
Speaker: We have already planned a lot of activities.
Speaker: We're not doing those anymore.
Speaker: Right now, we postpone a lot of those.
Speaker: We only are having a Wednesdays and Sundays, but still, you know, the attendance has been like last Sunday probably was about 50% of the people only that regularly.
Speaker: We have our service, yes.
Speaker: And not everyone is undocumented, but there's a mixed status families.
Speaker: You know, it's affecting everyone.
Speaker: Everyone in the community.
Speaker: And as a leader in the community, again, through the work that I do as a nonprofit that is focused on the School of Avance Latino,
Speaker: We focus more on economic development with small businesses.
Speaker: You know, in the city of Los Angeles, there are thousands of landscapers, mostly Latinos now.
Speaker: It used to be Japanese, but now our Latinos are the ones that are taking over.
Speaker: that industry.
Speaker: And they don't have an association.
Speaker: So they know the work that I do with banks and in the community.
Speaker: And they called me to help them organize.
Speaker: And we were planning also an event to bring resources and to train the people how to start businesses, how to apply for licenses, you know.
Speaker: And I have so many connections in the city.
Speaker: I was going to bring people from the county,
Speaker: you know, about, you know, applying other nonprofits, banks, investors, people that wants to bring resources to the community.
Speaker: And we thought that we were going to have a good attendance, probably about a hundred people who are going to come.
Speaker: We had to transfer that also.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because no one is, no, no one will attend.
Speaker: Now we're trying to do something virtual.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Something like that.
Speaker: But, you know, we had to start a lot of activities that our church does.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That makes sense.
Speaker: I'm curious for you personally or even within your community, what are kind of things you're wrestling with with your faith right now?
Speaker: Or ways maybe you're seeing kind of scripture differently as a result of kind of the circumstances that y'all are in right now?
Speaker: I have a deeper commitment.
Speaker: That's how it has affected me even more.
Speaker: And not only me, but I, I don't know why my wife also comes with me to everything, but she says, if I don't go, you don't go.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: She's always protecting me.
Speaker: I don't know why, but it's like, no, if you go, I have to be there.
Speaker: So it has been bringing us together as a couple, literally, because we're praying for the same thing, we're doing the same thing.
Speaker: It has made us more committed to our city.
Speaker: I sometimes say I don't like that a lot of people talk about the city of Los Angeles, a place of, you know, it's a horrible city, you know, a lot of problems.
Speaker: And I don't deny that we have problems.
Speaker: We don't deny that there's a lot of need for housing, for, you know, a lot of things that could be different.
Speaker: But this is a beautiful city.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's a beautiful city because this is mostly people from all over the world being together.
Speaker: I remember once I was in a program in the University of the USC for faith leaders, and I don't remember her name right now, but she said once to the group that was attending her class, this is the only place in the world there are more than 110, 15 faiths live together in the world in peace.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: If you go to any place in the world that so many faiths are living together, they're, you know, fighting and they're, you know, totally in disagreement.
Speaker: No, literally, this is a very peaceful city, mostly.
Speaker: Crime is done from, you know, from 10, 20 years ago.
Speaker: It's expensive, things like that, people.
Speaker: But it is a beautiful city because, you know, there are another places you can, you know, eat fruit from all over the world in the same place.
Speaker: And being together, you know, when I talk about food trucks, you can go out a food truck with, you know, fusion, you know, Japanese, Mexican, and Korean together.
Speaker: So those things only happen here.
Speaker: and that's one of the things I enjoy the most you know trying different foods from people all over the world and yesterday no yesterday but Saturday was a refugee because it was a refugee international day so I was invited to attend and I went being among people refugees from all over the world you know from Africa from
Speaker: India, from a lot of different places.
Speaker: So it was a wonderful scene, you know, being all there together supporting each other.
Speaker: So Los Angeles is, in that way, it's beautiful.
Speaker: And for me, it's beautiful because this is where my family is, my wife is, you know, me and my wife are,
Speaker: We have committed to the city, even, you know, I'm not planning to leave or, you know, change, you know, my place of ministry.
Speaker: I'm committed to die in this place.
Speaker: This is my, this is what Jesus called me to be.
Speaker: So that's why, you know, my heart is broken to see, you know, what is going on to be, to see soldiers all over.
Speaker: soldiers a lot of them are like 20 21 years of age and a lot of them are you know mostly black and brown people when we were marching last you know not last Saturday but you know the Saturday before no king's day and I was there leaving a group you know we were chanting you know singing together people from all over the city and the soldiers were like
Speaker: I'm doing here.
Speaker: They even, you know, greeted us and, you know, tell us, hey, ESP, ESP.
Speaker: Okay, good.
Speaker: Some of us went and took pictures with them and say anything, you know, this is our city, you know, this is a safe place, you don't have to be here.
Speaker: And they were saying, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: They didn't respond, but, you know, you can see that I don't know why we are here.
Speaker: That's what breaks my heart a lot.
Speaker: People have a barrier because of media, you know,
Speaker: They portray the city as lawless, run by criminals and run by immigrants that are killing and things like that, which is not true.
Speaker: This is a beautiful city that I love, especially because the people that make the city are beautiful people.
Speaker: Most of my adult life, I've been in this community.
Speaker: So I take it because this is my city.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: I love the way you shared about that because I feel like that's so much of also like just the heartbeat of CCDA of like, how do we really love the place that we live, right?
Speaker: And not just at a surface level, but we know the ins and outs.
Speaker: We know who the landscaper who should come over here.
Speaker: We know the food truck that we should send you to.
Speaker: Like we just know our city and we love it deeply.
Speaker: And we know our neighbors like that so much that it feels like
Speaker: my family is being affected, right?
Speaker: It's not just like my immediate family.
Speaker: It's like my familia from my community.
Speaker: And so I really love a lot of the ways you shared about that.
Speaker: And I love how much your church is a part of all of that as well.
Speaker: You know, that kind of church-based component of church.
Speaker: We don't exist just to be an insular or like only four walls.
Speaker: We exist for this community and for this city.
Speaker: And so I think that's been really powerful in the midst of all of the kind of chaos that's happening right now to see that those things ring true for you guys.
Speaker: Well, what about for prayer requests?
Speaker: Are there like two or three specific things?
Speaker: I know you've shared a lot already that I can already anticipate on what to pray for.
Speaker: But what about in this moment?
Speaker: What are two or three things we can be praying for you guys?
Speaker: For protection.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: for protection of my wife and I, that we could continue on the streets.
Speaker: Because that's what we feel that's where we should be, at the streets.
Speaker: Because that's where the people are.
Speaker: But also pray for the church because we could be a target of hate people, you know, hate groups.
Speaker: You know, I'm very much aware of that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And especially pray for the children of the city of Los Angeles.
Speaker: There are so many children's hearts that are broken right now.
Speaker: Afraid, literally afraid of being separated.
Speaker: You know, last Sunday, yesterday, all family, they have five children.
Speaker: They, oh, Pastor, can I talk to you after the service?
Speaker: In front of the children, if we're taken away, will you take our family?
Speaker: And the children loved us.
Speaker: They love us.
Speaker: They're my children.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: My children, literally.
Speaker: For me, it was so hard to hear that they're telling me that in front of the children.
Speaker: So please pray for the children.
Speaker: Pray for those in detention because there's still many families, we don't know, love is
Speaker: Wednesday, I was in a meeting with our congressman here in the city, Jimmy Gomez.
Speaker: He's part of our district.
Speaker: He's, you know, the congressman from our district.
Speaker: And he was telling us that, you know, the places that finally I allowed some of the congresspeople to get into are horrible.
Speaker: are people there that for the last 10 days they haven't changed clothes, you know, they're sleeping on the floor, concrete floor, things like that.
Speaker: So praise for the family that have been detained and especially for all the people that are in cost and fear.
Speaker: Also, pray for the pastors in my city, the more pastors, you know,
Speaker: Stop being silent because they think I don't want to get involved with politics.
Speaker: This is not about politics.
Speaker: This is about our families.
Speaker: So pray for pastors for more courage and the spiritual leadership of this church.
Speaker: So for more people, especially from the church, because that's where I'm from, from the church, is thumb in the gap and help.
Speaker: I'm not saying, you know, being political or anything like that.
Speaker: Just help families.
Speaker: I want that.
Speaker: And especially pray for healing in our city to stop the raids.
Speaker: And especially now that you don't know who is taking the people.
Speaker: We don't know.
Speaker: Literally, we don't know.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because they don't have no, you don't, it's, they don't have a, you know, anything that identifies them as being part of the government, but they're taking away people.
Speaker: They just go randomly in the streets.
Speaker: Whoever is walking that looks Latino, you could be taken.
Speaker: So please pray for healing.
Speaker: You know, I was kneeling, praying at the detention center, you know, about five, six, seven days ago.
Speaker: And a very known, his name is Jorge Ramos.
Speaker: He used to work for Univision.
Speaker: He asked me, Pastor, why are you praying, kneeling here in front of soldiers?
Speaker: Do you think they're going to listen to what you're saying?
Speaker: Well, I'm not praying to them.
Speaker: I'm praying to God.
Speaker: And I still believe in miracles.
Speaker: I'm a pastor.
Speaker: I still believe in miracles.
Speaker: You still believe in miracles?
Speaker: Even though you, you know, what has happened?
Speaker: If I don't believe in miracles, I stop being a pastor.
Speaker: So please pray for healing in our city and for peace.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Thank you for that.
Speaker: Those are powerful requests or even things to consider.
Speaker: I think a lot of times whenever someone articulates the really specific things, it helps me to be like, oh man, those are things I didn't even think about, right?
Speaker: I've wondered even what are ways that the church can be creative and protecting and supporting their community in this season too, I think is something we can keep praying for.
Speaker: How about like for a lot of the people listening right now are obviously not super proximate to LA, but I think a lot of us can attest to some of this, these raids and things that are happening, threats towards immigrants are happening in our communities.
Speaker: What are ways that we can like support your community or even things you think we should consider when supporting our communities locally?
Speaker: I think one of the things that people could do to support what we're doing is share the stories.
Speaker: More people need to know what's going on in our city.
Speaker: Because when I, at night, you know, I watch the news.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They picture a different, totally incorrect picture of what is going on.
Speaker: They like to point to the cars and fire and someone is standing with a Mexican flag.
Speaker: That's the image that I like to portray the city.
Speaker: Now share the stories, the real stories of what's going on, especially from clergy or for people that you trust.
Speaker: support any organization that you know of that is doing work in the community.
Speaker: Reach out to officials.
Speaker: Call your people in Congress, elected officials.
Speaker: Demand answers.
Speaker: don't look away when you see the stories.
Speaker: Just don't look, oh, no, no, I'm busy or this is political.
Speaker: No, don't look away to what is going on.
Speaker: You need to understand, you know, how families are being torn apart.
Speaker: Stay informed.
Speaker: Try to be part of the solution.
Speaker: And if somehow, you know, remember me, just pray for me and my church and all the people that are being involved helping our community.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Well, thank you, Pastor Carlos.
Speaker: We appreciate your time today.
Speaker: Thank you for sharing the stories and giving us a little glimpse into your world and ways that we can be praying and supporting you.
Speaker: I'm very grateful for you and your example for us today.
Speaker: Thank you for having me.
Speaker: And when people ask me why I do it, it's because I'm pastoring in my church.
Speaker: That's what I'm doing.
Speaker: I'm not brave.
Speaker: It just happened that suddenly things happened, but I'm not looking for any of these things that I share.
Speaker: It's just, you know, I'm trying to be a pastor in my city.
Speaker: That's what I'm trying to do.
Speaker: And everything that I say is with that spirit.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think that definitely came across.
Speaker: I appreciate you again.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And one day we'll have to have Indian food together.
Speaker: Yes, definitely.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: There's a place here where I live in Artesia, Little One Bay.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: Thank you for listening to the CCDA podcast.
Speaker: And thank you again, Pastor Carlos, for joining us.
Speaker: If you'd want to learn more about CCDA or get involved and connect with Pastor Carlos, check out the show notes of this episode.
Speaker: Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker: And this episode is produced by Sarah Callen in association with me, Christina Fore.
Speaker: We will be back soon with another episode featuring CCD practitioners who are committed to seeing people and communities experience God's shalom.
Speaker: We'll see you then.
