Transcript
Speaker: Hi, and welcome to the CCDA podcast.
Speaker: My name is Darrell Anser.
Speaker: I am co-pastor of New Community Church in Kansas City, Missouri.
Speaker: And I have been a part of the CCDA family since 2011, when I went to the first Immersion.
Speaker: I had the privilege of being a part of a leadership cohort, CSYNCO, the best cohort.
Speaker: And I also currently have the privilege of sitting on the board with my dear sister here on Strauss.
Speaker: So we are grateful to be able to be in this space together.
Speaker: CCDA is passionate about seeing people and communities experience God's shalom.
Speaker: And that is a reason why I am a part of the CCDA family.
Speaker: I fully believe in the mission and work of CCDA.
Speaker: And one way that we're doing that is through our Flourishing Congregations Initiatives, or FCI.
Speaker: And this is our comprehensive four-year program designed to empower church leaders to help their congregations deepen their community engagement, enhance their ministries, and contribute to the flourishing of their neighborhoods.
Speaker: And so today we have a representative from Makealo joining us to share about what they're doing in their church and community and how they are seeing God move.
Speaker: And like I said, I am joined by my dear sister, my friend, Dr. Unstrausser.
Speaker: Thank you so much for being here, Gunn.
Speaker: This is like the best timing for this because our coach, Reverend Daryl Anser, and I'm sorry if everybody who's watching and listening, we do reside in Hawaii.
Speaker: So we just had the privilege of having Daryl, our coach, come and spend a week with us.
Speaker: So I hope we get to talk about that too.
Speaker: And it was the best thing ever.
Speaker: It absolutely was.
Speaker: And we definitely will be talking about it.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: And so to begin, how about you just introduce yourself and share a little bit about your church?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Maki Lo'o, we are in our seventh year as a church plant.
Speaker: And I have personally been around CCDA for about five years.
Speaker: Like Daryl said, I'm also on the board with them, which is like my favorite board to be a part of.
Speaker: But really, I feel like out of all of the national platforms, associations, affiliations, denominations, particularly in this time when like a lot of disabilited churches and organizations and communities are coming out from the pandemic, this is probably the one spot that our church knew more than any other denomination or association or affiliation.
Speaker: This is where we want to land because we're just, it was the first time when I brought my leaders to a conference.
Speaker: They're just like, wait a second.
Speaker: wait, wait, people do church like this?
Speaker: Like, we just thought we were like the weirdos, you know, trying to think about, I'm like,
Speaker: Apparently a lot of people think about a church like this, or think about a future of the church, big C wide, uh, looking and doing and behaving like this.
Speaker: So that was our biggest, biggest, uh, draw to it.
Speaker: My leaders cried the first time, you know, so this is the one conference, one and only conference every year we bring our leaders to.
Speaker: So we're incredibly grateful that CCDA exists.
Speaker: all the work and decades of work that a lot of the pioneering leaders have done.
Speaker: So, I mean, we cry so much.
Speaker: We just cry all the time whenever we get a chance to be with CCDA.
Speaker: Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker: So speaking of your church and you bringing your folks out to CCDA, when you think about your context, like what's one thing people should know about your church?
Speaker: Yeah, we...
Speaker: paradise living we also do still suffer for the gospel so don't you think that it's otherwise i think that it really has been around we think that we're such a small niche of of a community that we think about we think about race dynamics differently here in hawaii than we do on you know mayman's us we think about because of indigenous hawaiian culture we think about
Speaker: redistribution or even distribution of land differently.
Speaker: There's a cultural part of reconciliation.
Speaker: It's all like embedded in those kinds of things.
Speaker: But I think that the biggest thing was that universal terms around things that I feel like a lot is so meaningful to indigenous Hawaiian culture, that it's the first time that it's not churchy or like, or even white evangelical tradition feels threatening.
Speaker: Like one of the biggest hurdles about
Speaker: planting or doing church at all in Hawaii is that a lot of indigenous Hawaiians have to ask the question, do I give up my identity as being Hawaiian in exchange for being Christian?
Speaker: Or am I Christian first?
Speaker: Am I Hawaiian first?
Speaker: So a lot of the conversation around, you don't have to actually, no, that's not asking you to give up your identity or your cultural identity.
Speaker: But a lot of times that kind of language from a broader church conversation, it feels like it misses out on those kinds of things.
Speaker: So I think a lot of the CCD philosophies make sense.
Speaker: You know, it already makes sense culturally for people here.
Speaker: So that actually has been like the biggest gift.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: And so I was able to visit your community.
Speaker: literally like three weeks ago or four weeks ago, you know?
Speaker: And one of the places that you encouraged me to go to was the palace.
Speaker: And so I love that you're bringing up some of the history of
Speaker: of your community and your people in Hawaii and the indigenous people, because Hawaii has faced the effects of some pretty significant injustices.
Speaker: And I think it's really important for us in CCDA to hear that, because usually what we hear of Hawaii is the beaches, the vacations, all of these things that people...
Speaker: you know, they can miss like the underlying story, the narrative of it being an occupied territory, you know?
Speaker: And so, yeah, I'm grateful for that because it's really important for us in the CCA community to understand like, it's not just what's happening in the mainland, but like your community helps us just a little bit see beyond our local neighborhoods.
Speaker: Like, okay, across an ocean, you know, these things are also taking place.
Speaker: Yeah, no, I just, I think that's probably one of the things that, you know, I think you and I both have chatted about this, but that we would hope for any folks participating in FCI is that it isn't just, like, because of the CCDA philosophy, it isn't just about what's the work that coaches need to do just for this one particular church community.
Speaker: And just working on the church's culture in that one specific community and then flourishing will happen, right?
Speaker: If we're going to be talking about flourishing, then it has to include the community.
Speaker: It has to include the history and traditions of that local place.
Speaker: And I think it exposes the fact if church leaders actually know their place or not.
Speaker: I'm like, I am not from Hawaii.
Speaker: Well, I look brown, but I'm not.
Speaker: Everybody knows I'm from the East Coast when I'm here in Hawaii.
Speaker: So I, you know, that part about, I had to learn very quickly that this isn't just happy-go-lucky aloha culture in Hawaii, that there is a deep, deep sense of injustice that people may politely not want to bring up.
Speaker: because in some places it feels like we're still in an occupied, literal occupied land.
Speaker: But what do people do with that?
Speaker: What do Jesus followers do with that?
Speaker: Knowing its history, like where is resistance?
Speaker: Where are the reconciliation parts?
Speaker: How does empowerment work?
Speaker: Like all those kinds of things, people are already thinking about that, wrestling with that.
Speaker: So yeah, it's important.
Speaker: The local place is important.
Speaker: If you don't mind just sharing a little bit, like what led you and your team to consider being a part of the Flourishing Congregations Initiative?
Speaker: One of the biggest things is we actually, our church partners with a church 5,000 miles away in Virginia.
Speaker: And we really, both of our churches and church communities and leadership, we've done some work together and things, but we were beginning to already ask the questions, like the next step of,
Speaker: Once we nailed down the cultural pieces to both of our communities, leaderships equipped, like what are they equipped to do?
Speaker: And a lot of the resounding answer was how does the church get further connected to the community that the church resides in?
Speaker: So if that was a question, we knew that CCDA is probably one of the best places to journey with other like-minded communities, CCD practitioners.
Speaker: in particular are the best people to learn about what is happening in our local place, in our communities, and all different aspects of it, whether it's advocacy or working with actual neighbors, those kinds of things.
Speaker: So I think that FCI was a really, really great opportunity for both of our churches to learn together, even though we're in very, very different parts of the entire country.
Speaker: Okay, let's go back to me being present with your community and being with your leaders and them experiencing CCDA at the conference.
Speaker: Why don't we spend some time just talking about how they're taking some of those principles of CCDA and then learning how to interpret and live those out and even invite others into.
Speaker: That's one of the things I really appreciate about your ministry.
Speaker: is that you go at the pace of your community.
Speaker: I just noticed that really quickly, that there's no rush.
Speaker: You go at the pace of your community, of your leaders, and you walk alongside them.
Speaker: So I'm just curious what that has looked like over the last several years as people have engaged in CCDA, have
Speaker: you know, moved from like the, like, oh, wow, there are people out here like us, you know, like we're not crazy to then like on the ground.
Speaker: So like, we'd love to hear what that's looked like for you all.
Speaker: Yeah, I, you know, like if you're anybody who's a leader, they understand this thing.
Speaker: It does not matter how many times we feel like a broken record and we just say the things that we are like, this is amazing.
Speaker: So like, like talk about this environment, redistribution, all this stuff where we can do this, right?
Speaker: And then like, lo and behold, a brand new person comes from a totally different context with totally different stories, but stories that is meaningful to them.
Speaker: It's relatable, all those kinds of things.
Speaker: When that happens, it feels like magic.
Speaker: It feels like finally people, my leaders are understanding it.
Speaker: So it did not matter how many times a person has gone to a conference.
Speaker: Like the conference is awesome.
Speaker: Don't get me wrong.
Speaker: Everybody go register for a conference in Grand Rapids, like pronto.
Speaker: But I think the beauty about FCI is because the coaches get to do these onsite visits.
Speaker: Like my leaders got to have one-on-one conversations with Daryl.
Speaker: They got to ask and pick his brain about what did it practically look like?
Speaker: They heard another community story about pacing and timing.
Speaker: So they can't accuse me of that.
Speaker: being either too fast or too slow, right?
Speaker: They heard stories of other leaders struggling with X, Y, and Z in a particular neighborhood.
Speaker: So all those kinds of conversations were probably the most meaningful.
Speaker: I'll share a story about Kelsey, Daryl, because I think that probably landed the most for our
Speaker: So Maake Lo'o, we started out with one neighborhood-based community.
Speaker: We multiplied to 12 different ones across Oahu, which is one of the main islands in Hawaii.
Speaker: And so Daryl got to go visit some of the neighborhoods and really work with
Speaker: the bulk of our leaders in individual sessions, conversation over a meal, of course, over good Hawaiian food, of course.
Speaker: Yes, absolutely.
Speaker: But one of the leaders that De'er got to sit down with was one of our top leaders who has expanded her community.
Speaker: She's the one who does a lot of work with kupuna or seniors in Hawaii.
Speaker: They're all low-income residents.
Speaker: And a lot of the work was around meeting needs,
Speaker: But it wasn't until, you know, I had, trust me, I had many conversations with her leadership and her communities around, oh, how can we join alongside the community members, all these things.
Speaker: But it wasn't until Daryl was very clearly sharing with her, like, have you ever wondered what
Speaker: the people that you feel like you want to meet their needs, what they can also contribute in return.
Speaker: Because without them doing that, they'll never enjoy what it means to be a part of the community.
Speaker: So even just taking the value point of listening to the community, but he rewrapped it.
Speaker: you know, just a little bit differently and knew that my leader really valued needs and needs-based ministries, right?
Speaker: But he re-wrapped it so that it's like, actually, one of the fruit of listening to the community is that you realize that everyone has something to offer.
Speaker: And that's a vital part of being a part of the community that you want to set out and establish for everybody to flourish under.
Speaker: So it really, it was such a benefit, Daryl, when you came in.
Speaker: Like, that's still sticking with that whole community.
Speaker: Yeah, thanks for sharing that.
Speaker: I'm just reflecting on this whole FCI process and the gift of
Speaker: of this process is that we're actually, as coaches, are able to spend time in community.
Speaker: I don't know if there would be this much fruit if this would have just taken place on a Zoom call.
Speaker: But even with the leader that you're speaking of on, meeting her in her neighborhood at her coffee shop, like literally walking into the coffee shop and people know her name.
Speaker: This is her community.
Speaker: So I got to spend time as the coach, as the guest,
Speaker: And so I spent time in the neighborhood, walking the neighborhood, taking pictures of artwork, eating the food, all the different things as the guest, and then being able to just share some stories.
Speaker: I think that's what's so powerful about this whole process.
Speaker: And I'm excited to see over the next few years, the ripple effects of these conversations and this work and just how we continue to kind of till the soil of our communities.
Speaker: Because as coaches, we're learning how to be guests and
Speaker: Local leaders are continuing to practice hospitality and just learning how to see their community through fresh eyes, which has really been a gift.
Speaker: So yeah, I appreciate you sharing that because I had an amazing time with your team, but I also saw those moments.
Speaker: Where it's like, oh, I've never thought about that.
Speaker: Or unsaid that, but I forgot.
Speaker: It's like, oh, yeah.
Speaker: Every single one of my leaders wants us to just swap places.
Speaker: Send me back to the city.
Speaker: It gets cold here.
Speaker: It gets real cold here.
Speaker: You don't want that.
Speaker: No, I think it's a really amazing opportunity for us.
Speaker: And again, for me to be in your communities and like you did an incredible job, you and Pastor Melly getting me the itinerary, you know, before I got this, I knew where I needed to be at what time.
Speaker: Leaders were waiting for me, you know, with food and lots of coffee.
Speaker: You know, so it was just a great time, just a great time.
Speaker: And then also, as I mentioned, learning the history of the place.
Speaker: Hawaii isn't just beautiful beaches, right?
Speaker: And resorts.
Speaker: There is a deep, deep history of injustice.
Speaker: So being able to, yeah, just be there with local people and not there as a tourist was just a gift.
Speaker: Daryl, I didn't tell you this part, but I'll sing your praises like I always like to do.
Speaker: But one of our leaders, he's a young man.
Speaker: He's an indigenous Hawaiian leader.
Speaker: His name is Haku.
Speaker: And he does a lot of youth ministries.
Speaker: And he got to spend some one-on-one time with Daryl.
Speaker: And he came away from it.
Speaker: He said that, I feel like Pastor Daryl is one of the people that I know I could count on for life.
Speaker: He's like, it's not just you.
Speaker: There are people that I know I can count on him for life.
Speaker: And so it's like, even I feel like that kind of work makes it so that my leaders aren't a part of the CCD family by proxy to me.
Speaker: This kind of leadership work makes my leaders feel like they're actually a part of this.
Speaker: This isn't just something one leader or a main leader is doing.
Speaker: So that was actually very, I just repped in a corner after that conversation.
Speaker: And so thankful and so thankful for Daryl.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: I've actually thought about him often since I've been back.
Speaker: So yeah, looking forward to reconnecting.
Speaker: So, and speaking of your community and injustices, national news a few years ago, the Lahaina fires, you know, what's unfortunate is some people take advantage of crises and there are others who came to the aid of their neighbors and
Speaker: But just how is your community doing?
Speaker: If I remember correctly, you are engaged in trying to support some underground locals who are like proximate to those fires.
Speaker: But I just wanted to check in.
Speaker: Like, how's that going?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And just I think that this is probably like to the recording of our conversation here.
Speaker: thinking about Texas now, you know, and all the devastation and work that we, you know, they're facing there, you know, it wasn't too long ago with the LA fires.
Speaker: And I think that's the reality of like how quickly we forget, you know what I mean?
Speaker: Like, like that, that's why I like national or global news, like we'll just forget about it so quickly, but it's, and it isn't because it's like a, a mean thing or an evil thing to do.
Speaker: I think that this is the reason why the church exists.
Speaker: to be local and in the neighborhood and you know your neighbors and you know, like we're the people who should care deeply about our local places, right?
Speaker: And so, yes, like hearing about all of these devastations, like, you know, our hearts really are so pulled on knowing that there are other folks across the whole planet
Speaker: suffering in their local place.
Speaker: But this is part of, I think, the challenge and the call for not just community development leaders.
Speaker: We often think that in times of this kind of natural disasters or these kinds of travesties in the world, that it's only community development workers who should be responding.
Speaker: the nonprofit workers or charity programs who should be responding.
Speaker: But if the local church is not equipped to know how to address this immediately, right?
Speaker: The world will not stay to watch.
Speaker: The funding and the support and all those things will go away really quickly.
Speaker: Statistically, it takes about a week.
Speaker: You have seven days until the next news hits, right?
Speaker: And so this is a few years past now in the Lahana fires and it's only now that rebuilding has started.
Speaker: Imagine if you lost your home, if you lost all your possessions, and most of these, the parts of Lahaina, the deepest sadness is that the land was one of the few places in the state of Hawaii where it is still indigenous Hawaiian owned land.
Speaker: So these are like generations after generations of family land.
Speaker: that got burned down.
Speaker: And so, I mean, it's years past and yet it's only now that a lot of these families were able to come back to their land, even look at what, what, what it looks like.
Speaker: Like a lot of folks said that it felt like it was a war torn when they first went back to sea because everything was still ashen.
Speaker: And,
Speaker: Hawaii being Hawaii, we look for things that are going to grow.
Speaker: We come from volcanoes.
Speaker: And so we always look for life that's going to seep through.
Speaker: And so people looking for that, people looking for any remnants of family treasures, artifacts around their generations, all those things.
Speaker: And so that part has passed.
Speaker: It's now that we're beginning to have some sort of makeshift temporary housing.
Speaker: that can be on location.
Speaker: So our church has been partnering with a local farm that we've been doing a lot of work with that Pastor Darrow is going to come to the next time he comes to visit.
Speaker: And so it's solar generated.
Speaker: The most meaningful work that we learned from the La Hanna fires is that people do not want outside help because people don't want outsiders to come to their land.
Speaker: And so the big quick shift work was really around how do we get direct funding to these communities so that people aren't going to be ousted because maybe they're undocumented.
Speaker: back then.
Speaker: And so people are afraid, right?
Speaker: Maybe it's untrustworthy because we are coming from a very recent history of being overthrown, right?
Speaker: That's the culture and history of a place.
Speaker: And you don't want to all of a sudden think that you're going to be the knight in shining armor coming in and making everything
Speaker: No, that is actually the wrong way of presenting Jesus, right?
Speaker: Jesus has to look like an indigenous Hawaiian person coming in and staying with the families, finding them because they already know.
Speaker: Talk to auntie so-and-so to know where baby so-and-so is for the diaper care and all that stuff.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, a lot of the work is just supporting the families.
Speaker: We have about seven folks that we are supporting.
Speaker: And so it's just their own direct needs and hearing their stories around rebuilding.
Speaker: So it's still years in the making.
Speaker: Like only probably like a month ago was when the last applications for rebuilding funds were being released.
Speaker: So it's a long time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Really slow.
Speaker: It just reminds you like in the community development world, how many years?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, so, so the news may stop reporting within seven days, but to actually rebuild is years, you know?
Speaker: So, yeah, I, I appreciate that.
Speaker: And the, the word that comes to mind for me is I listened to how,
Speaker: you and your community shows up is our incarnation.
Speaker: So, and that's a big part of who we are as CCDA, incarnating ourselves, coming alongside community.
Speaker: staying in a place long enough where we no longer are the outsider, but we link arms and support those who are like indigenous to those communities.
Speaker: So I think that's really important.
Speaker: And yeah, I'm just grateful again for your witness in your place.
Speaker: Thank you so much for sharing that.
Speaker: I'm curious, as you think about other congregations that may be a part of this journey, what words of encouragement do you have for them?
Speaker: Others who may be in the FCI are hearing about this, may not be in the FCI, but also, yeah, just wanting to go deeper into their incarnational journeys.
Speaker: Do you have any words of encouragement to them?
Speaker: Yeah, I think that if you have not done your coaches site visit yet, you're all in the FCI world.
Speaker: If you haven't yet, and if you didn't include some sort of neighborhood for the coach to actually get to see and sense and taste and smell and see everything around your neighborhood, like what an opportunity for you to fall in love again with the work that God has called you to, right?
Speaker: Like if you don't, if you only just love your church,
Speaker: You can plant anywhere, right?
Speaker: Go be a part of community just for the community's sake.
Speaker: But if I think church leaders, pastors, elders, deacons, if we don't love our neighborhood, we don't love the community that God put in.
Speaker: It does not mean we have to love it in totality.
Speaker: But if we don't love the people there, name those people, think of those people as we're doing this kind of flourishing work, basically we're saying that our neighbors and our community are not included in God's flourishing.
Speaker: And I just don't think that's how the kingdom of God operates.
Speaker: And so I just feel like that incarnational work is not just about, like you were saying, Daryl, like meeting people's needs.
Speaker: It really is really saying and inviting and including the entire community into God's flourishing, right?
Speaker: That's the picture of the kingdom of God, right?
Speaker: It isn't just end with the church.
Speaker: Yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker: I love that invitation.
Speaker: That's such a pastoral word on what needs to take place in order for us to fall in love with our communities again.
Speaker: Because it's hard out here.
Speaker: It's hard out here.
Speaker: We're tired.
Speaker: But again, if we're a people of incarnation,
Speaker: the driving force behind that is our love.
Speaker: It should be.
Speaker: Not a sense of obligation, not a sense of guilt, not a sense of seeking accolades or platform, but it's Christ's love.
Speaker: So I really appreciate that invitation to just ask ourselves again, like, what needs to happen in order for us to fall in love with our place, with our community?
Speaker: to move outside the walls of our buildings, if we have buildings.
Speaker: Makalo and New Community in Kansas City, we don't have buildings, we got homes.
Speaker: But even still, that same mindset can set in.
Speaker: So that's such a great, great reminder to us.
Speaker: Owen, do you have any other words for any of our, any folks who may be listening in the CCDA world as it relates to Christian community development, flourishing congregations?
Speaker: Yeah, I think that maybe if that's part of like the conversations, I think, in CCDA that we've been having conversations around, right?
Speaker: Is there really that disparity between churches who are trying to do charity or community development work and then
Speaker: non-profits, Christian community developers, practitioners, right?
Speaker: Is there really that much of a disparity?
Speaker: I think we do know that there is a learning that church-based leaders have to engage with.
Speaker: And it isn't just learning a bunch of new things or learning
Speaker: or just like reading about CCDA philosophy, I think the biggest push that we probably can make is get to know the CCD practitioners who live in the same city as you.
Speaker: If you really want to know what's the best place to have like missional clarity, missional impulse, like what is, where is God already at work in your city?
Speaker: Don't just learn about it or read about it or read some philosophy and think you're going to magically understand what's happening.
Speaker: No, actually, there are people who are working and living and loving the city just as much as you do.
Speaker: Go learn from them.
Speaker: You may be surprised because most of these leaders are black and brown female leaders.
Speaker: But man, if we listened to these leaders, if we really, really sat under their leadership, under their experience, and most of these people have been doing this for decades, probably maybe longer than you've been pastoring a church, man, your church would be more poised to know how to be guests.
Speaker: of the city, guests of other parts of your neighborhood and things.
Speaker: So I think that's probably the, if you're a church-based leader, you're a pastor, elder, or deacon in your church, and you're trying to think through how to do this well, don't just read.
Speaker: Don't just do virtual calls.
Speaker: Like that's not where the learning's going to happen.
Speaker: Go find where this is happening live.
Speaker: in your city.
Speaker: And if you don't know, this is the biggest plug for coming to the CCDA National Conference in Grand Rapids because it's not just a bunch of like a big room platform learning or seeing something inspirational.
Speaker: There's all those kinds of things there too.
Speaker: But the breakout sessions and things are you actually have there.
Speaker: One of the biggest parts is networking sessions.
Speaker: Go to those places, meet the people who are right down the street from you.
Speaker: And you never knew the work that they were doing, right?
Speaker: I bet the people that we consider heroes in the church wouldn't just include pastors, right?
Speaker: It would actually include these people who have given their lives over for their neighbors and probably have been more incarnational than the church has been in the recent times.
Speaker: So that's my biggest push.
Speaker: Yay, CDD practitioners, learn from them.
Speaker: That's so good.
Speaker: That's so good.
Speaker: And also a plug for your local network.
Speaker: If you're not connected to one, then that's definitely a great place to get plugged in.
Speaker: And you may not have one in your city, but you can talk to the folks at CCDA and help get one started.
Speaker: But I'm always amazed when I go to the national conference and we do have like a
Speaker: You know, we do put, you know, put the call out in the Kansas City area.
Speaker: There's always way more people than I expected to be in the room.
Speaker: Like, oh, I had no idea you were in the area, you know?
Speaker: So again, just an amazing plug for that local network.
Speaker: Well, thank you so much for taking the time.
Speaker: This has been a great conversation.
Speaker: Thank you for listening to the CCDA podcast.
Speaker: If you want to learn more about CCDA or connect with Maquialo, check out the show notes of this episode.
Speaker: Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker: This episode is produced by Sarah Kalin in association with Christina Fore.
Speaker: We'll be back soon with another episode featuring CCD practitioners who are committed to seeing people and communities experience God's shalom.
Speaker: We'll see you soon.
