Transcript
Speaker: Oh, you hit the button.
Speaker: I was looking at a completely different tab.
Speaker: Buddy, I need you to focus.
Speaker: I am focused.
Speaker: You just on the other side of the screen.
Speaker: Not if you're looking in a whole other tab.
Speaker: Look in the right tab.
Speaker: Okay, let me see if I can find the tab.
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the CCDA Podcast.
Speaker: My name is Lorenzo Watson and I am the CEO of CCDA.
Speaker: And I'm your host for today's episode.
Speaker: And I am extremely excited about today's guest.
Speaker: In fact, I'm so excited about today's guest that I actually married her 21 years ago.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So it's good to always talk to Miss Natasha Sanders.
Speaker: I call her Liberty.
Speaker: So for the rest of the episode, I'm going to say Liberty.
Speaker: I won't say Natasha anymore.
Speaker: So hi, Liberty.
Speaker: How are you?
Speaker: Hey, buddy, I'm doing good.
Speaker: And I call you Buddy.
Speaker: So welcome to the Liberty and Buddy show.
Speaker: Yes, yes.
Speaker: This is our opportunity to allow our worlds to collide and to talk about something that we're both passionate about and also something that feels extremely relevant to what's happening in the world today.
Speaker: So thank you for sharing a little bit of your time with CCDA and with me.
Speaker: I appreciate it.
Speaker: You're very welcome.
Speaker: You're very welcome.
Speaker: It's a pleasure and honor to be able to go to work with you today.
Speaker: You're coming to work with me?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It's take your wife to work day.
Speaker: I like it.
Speaker: I like it.
Speaker: So I'm excited to be with Liberty today.
Speaker: I know a bunch about her and I have years of experience of living with this amazing woman.
Speaker: But I do want to pause and give her a moment just to tell you who she is professionally and spiritually so that you can probably get as excited as I am to have this conversation.
Speaker: Thank you so much, buddy.
Speaker: Yes, you do know me very well.
Speaker: And you've seen most of my educational journey.
Speaker: I was educated in the public school system of U.S.
Speaker: And I go back that far because I think it's important context for the conversation that we're going to have.
Speaker: But, you know, I went to college at Hollins University in Roanoke, Virginia, got my undergrad.
Speaker: What was the mascot?
Speaker: Don't start.
Speaker: Don't ask me about mascots, okay?
Speaker: Just rock the green and gold.
Speaker: That's all you need to do.
Speaker: I went on to get my master's degree in special education from North Carolina Central University.
Speaker: Eagles.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That is when I really decided that teaching was a gift that I had that I wanted to be able to give to the world.
Speaker: So I worked in public education in North Carolina,
Speaker: For a long time, like most of my career in education was spent in the public school systems of North Carolina.
Speaker: And so I've been in the classroom as a teacher assistant.
Speaker: I've been in the classroom as a lead teacher, as a one-on-one paraprofessional.
Speaker: I've worked in behavior services and I've worked with
Speaker: students on the autism spectrum and their families.
Speaker: And I've also worked with elementary school students with all sorts of special needs and provided education for the general population is what we would call it, and neurotypical learners in high school and middle school as well.
Speaker: So I've done some of everything educationally.
Speaker: I also have to say that
Speaker: Because I love teaching, I also love learning.
Speaker: So like Sir President Dr. Lorenzo A. Watson, I will soon be Dr. Natasha Sanders as I am earning my doctoral degree as well.
Speaker: So there's that.
Speaker: Yes, there is that.
Speaker: Yes, I'm ready for that day to be able to celebrate with you.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: You and me both.
Speaker: We're going to be smiling so hard.
Speaker: So hard.
Speaker: You've already put in so much work with that.
Speaker: It's exciting.
Speaker: Well, thank you for sharing that.
Speaker: I can imagine, and I mean, like I've already said, I know just from our conversations over the years that you have seen varying levels of equity within the education space, right?
Speaker: You know, you've worked from, like you said, you know, being a teacher's assistant all the way to working at the central office, and you've worked with families and in the community.
Speaker: And so throughout all of
Speaker: all of those experiences, I would imagine that there are times where you've been angered because of what you've seen.
Speaker: You've also been filled with joy because of the things that you've experienced and been able to help create.
Speaker: And so let's take a moment just to kind of talk about
Speaker: what actually is education equity, right?
Speaker: As you look back over that landscape, how have you landed in terms of thinking about equity?
Speaker: And we can sort of lay as some groundwork the differentiation between equity and equality, right?
Speaker: So equality means that, you know, meaning everybody gets the same thing, the same set of resources, the same opportunities, and then equity being equity,
Speaker: the opportunity to match resources to specific needs for whatever reason those needs may have come about.
Speaker: But yeah, talk to us about some of the things that you've seen and share what education equity means to you.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: I like the fact that you said, I'm sure you've been angry.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You've seen me be angry.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I was trying to set you up.
Speaker: You have had a front row seat of me and getting dismissed from meetings because I was so angry.
Speaker: I will say part of what led me to focus my career in special education, primarily behavioral modification, is because I saw...
Speaker: deeply, deeply the inequity that existed for people who really needed some behavioral support within the public education setting.
Speaker: So when we think about inequity, a lot of times when I was learning in class with my fellow colleagues, we would talk about how
Speaker: People of color in the public education system are always at the bottom.
Speaker: But when you put at that intersection, you are a person of color and you have a special need.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: That puts you even lower.
Speaker: And so we think about inequity.
Speaker: It is always at the forefront of my mind that someone with special needs is
Speaker: getting exactly what they need so they can have an appropriate education.
Speaker: And part of the reason I used to get angry a lot is because the students that I felt called to serve were not getting what they needed just to learn.
Speaker: I mean, we talk about free, appropriate public education, and that is called FAPE.
Speaker: And a lot of these things, we get upset about what's happening today when you hear people in Congress talk about how we are just systematically dismantling, if you will,
Speaker: The Constitution.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It's because these acts for education are so young that they really we really haven't even had time to, like, put its roots in the ground.
Speaker: So the free, appropriate public education is grounded or, you know, in the 14th Amendment.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And the fact that we are looking at that particular thing and we know that its origin is so people who do have special learning needs can get an appropriate education.
Speaker: It was very like the 1970s.
Speaker: When the nation, the federal government decided, oh, yeah, we should make sure that people who have special learning needs get what they need in the public education system.
Speaker: And now we're looking at, OK, maybe not.
Speaker: You know, it's OK to say that they don't need or get what they need.
Speaker: And so my fight for my advocacy for people with special needs in public education is just rooted in the fact that everybody really can learn.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And everybody really does deserve that.
Speaker: an appropriate education.
Speaker: And if we're giving an appropriate education to one person, then equity says that we should give a free and appropriate education to another person, no matter what their needs are.
Speaker: And so that's what equity is, making sure that everyone has a free
Speaker: appropriate public education.
Speaker: It took a law for us to get there as a nation.
Speaker: And now those who fought for it, who are still alive in many cases, are watching it being dismantled.
Speaker: And that hurts on so many levels.
Speaker: Yeah, it does.
Speaker: And I'm thankful that you identified this particular population, right?
Speaker: So students with special needs, because even within the church space, that's a population that's often ignored.
Speaker: And so I know you've done some work here as well, and I'd love to dialogue a little bit about
Speaker: how we can challenge ourselves even as CCD practitioners, right?
Speaker: Because we are extremely passionate and active around changing the public and societal landscape to be more aligned with education equity practices, right?
Speaker: Like we're certainly doing that.
Speaker: But oftentimes, if you look at our own churches, you will find still some of the same remnants of
Speaker: and behaviors and practices that marginalize people within our spaces, right?
Speaker: We have to ask ourselves, you know, what are we doing in our Sunday school classes that make space for individuals with special needs?
Speaker: Our Bible studies, how are we making those things accessible?
Speaker: and very practical despite the varying abilities people bring into the spiritual space, right, our worship spaces.
Speaker: So talk a little bit about that.
Speaker: How can we as practitioners not only
Speaker: continue to fight for this within this public discourse, but how do we then adopt some of those same practices within our faith institutions and worshiping communities so that we can have a more full experience of the beauty of God?
Speaker: Come on.
Speaker: There's a tenant that we talked about in grad school.
Speaker: And my advisor was so adamant that in all of our meetings about the students that we're serving,
Speaker: They need to be there in some capacity, whether they write what they want to say or they show up physically.
Speaker: So nothing about us without us.
Speaker: And there also is no one size fits all.
Speaker: That's why in special education, we have something called individualized education plans or IEP.
Speaker: So I would say for any church or any community community,
Speaker: any neighborhood that is really trying to figure out how to engage everyone
Speaker: that you have a conversation with everyone or with those that you are trying to engage because there is no one size fits all.
Speaker: And it is really hard to offer a remedy for a community or a church that I don't belong to or that I'm not a part of.
Speaker: What I do know and what I have seen across the board is that
Speaker: People love being able to talk and tell you about what they need and want.
Speaker: And so if you just start this, start with who is there and start with what you have.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You don't you really don't have to try to solve or.
Speaker: offer solutions for concerns or issues that don't exist for you when you're starting out, right?
Speaker: So in your immediate space.
Speaker: I will say if you're just starting out, survey your landscape.
Speaker: Look at who is there and work toward making sure everyone who shows up on a Sunday or Wednesday or whenever you have your open church or whenever you have church outings or whatever the case may be, make sure that everyone who wants to be there can be there.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And that the accommodations that you have made for everyone makes it equitable for everyone.
Speaker: Yes, yes.
Speaker: I mean, that's so good.
Speaker: You know, I mean, you remind us that just because things are invisible to us doesn't mean that they are non-existent.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: There are so many things happening in the world that we might not see because of our privilege and positionality, but they are very real and need to be addressed.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah, there's this one example that I bring up sometimes because it does get to your point about not being able to see things.
Speaker: One of my students really, really enjoyed the singing that would happen in his church that his family was attending.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, one Sunday he was not feeling well.
Speaker: And so he wasn't able to go to church.
Speaker: And that Sunday turned into another Sunday.
Speaker: And it just it just got so he kind of he stopped going to church altogether.
Speaker: And when they tried to get him to go back, he he was he didn't want to go.
Speaker: They would get.
Speaker: to the church parking lot.
Speaker: He would seem excited, but it was time to get out of the car.
Speaker: He didn't want to get out of the car.
Speaker: So one of his parents would have to drive back home.
Speaker: And so they asked me, what could I do?
Speaker: And I said, well, what is going on in the church?
Speaker: So I went down a list of things, trying to problem solve, see what was keeping him out of church all seemed to be sudden.
Speaker: And as it turns out,
Speaker: It was too noisy for him at this point.
Speaker: So what was not a bother to him before became a bother.
Speaker: And it was something as simple, I will say.
Speaker: It was remedied by getting him some headphones that helped buffer some of that sound because he wanted to be in church.
Speaker: He just could not take that sensitivity that he had
Speaker: gotten to the noise, to the level of noise.
Speaker: So that sound sensitivity that was a factor for him at this stage of his life, that wasn't a factor before.
Speaker: This taught me two things as an early educator, that just because it worked before doesn't mean it's going to always work, right?
Speaker: And that
Speaker: People, no matter who they are, change, right?
Speaker: So this person absolutely changed and being on the lookout for that.
Speaker: Thankfully, in this scenario, in this situation, it was something as simple as, okay, we can get headphones to help him.
Speaker: It's not always that simple.
Speaker: The solution isn't always that simple, but sometimes it is, right?
Speaker: And so we don't have to make stuff so difficult or-
Speaker: cave in to something that or make stuff bigger than it has to be in order to get to a solution.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But here's the thing.
Speaker: It's not always simple and sometimes it is complex, but it's always worth it.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: It's always worth it to make the investment.
Speaker: And too often we are missing out on the fullness of God because we are excluding parts of God.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And we're excluding them because the parts of God, it's coming to us in package that we don't understand.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And so rather than sitting with God in uncomfortable places so that God can reveal God's self, we exclude it in favor of our own limited view of the divine, and we're missing out.
Speaker: And this feels particularly important now because as we look across society, much of what we're seeing is the result of malformed spiritual beings.
Speaker: So individuals who are trying to co-opt the gospel for self-centered agendas, right?
Speaker: And so if we can begin to get to the root of this thing and have a more holistic worship experience, we will see, I guess, more divinely created and motivated actions throughout our nation.
Speaker: A hundred percent.
Speaker: There was definitely a shift in this particular student's being when he started going back to church.
Speaker: There was also a noticeable shift in the worship experience.
Speaker: Like people saw that he wasn't there.
Speaker: People wanted him to be there.
Speaker: One of the things that he really loved to do was play the tambourine.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And he did it very well.
Speaker: And so he would practice in the classroom sometimes.
Speaker: But, you know, that's OK.
Speaker: People missed that.
Speaker: When you talk about the full worship experience and the full creativity of God, we leave so many things out just because we don't understand or we won't take the time to understand.
Speaker: So to your point, Dr. Watson, a.k.a.
Speaker: Buddy,
Speaker: it is always worth it.
Speaker: Like it has to be, it has to be worth it.
Speaker: That's part of what we're called to do, to worship God in the fullness of God's being.
Speaker: And so if we are coming to this ready to exclude,
Speaker: then just know from the beginning that we are ignoring a command of God.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so just just be OK with that.
Speaker: But that's that's something that I'm just not willing to do now that I understand.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: That there really are people who want to have a meaningful worship experience.
Speaker: who just don't know how to say that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Or, you know, there are pastors or church leaders who really do want to involve more people, but they just don't know how to.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I'm on it.
Speaker: I am so on it.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: It's always worth it to love people, right?
Speaker: And we bring it back to education.
Speaker: This entire conversation, dialogue that we're having right now really defines education equity.
Speaker: It's ensuring that people have the resources and opportunity and access to fully embrace the humanity that God has given them, right, in the way that God has given it to them.
Speaker: So that's something that's something that feels like it's being attacked nowadays.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: And it feels like it's being attacked quite directly and without apology.
Speaker: And so if we if we take a step back a little bit and you alluded to this earlier, we've seen executive orders and we've seen conversations around, you know, the systematic dismantling of the education department.
Speaker: We know.
Speaker: For a fact, as you eloquently outlined earlier, that there were people who systematically built up these structures to support individuals who were being marginalized within our country.
Speaker: So the country itself has a history of leveraging education to support the majority.
Speaker: But over time, you know, like you said, there were those who fought against that and fought for access for folks who wouldn't normally have access.
Speaker: So we have like Brown versus Board of Education, which happened in 1954.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So saying that separate but equal is it should not be allowed.
Speaker: But we know as a result of that, there was like white flight and resegregation within spaces as well.
Speaker: Like, you know, like, hey,
Speaker: You might own this school, but we're just going to go and set up our own thing.
Speaker: And they did.
Speaker: And they did.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: And they did.
Speaker: So if I can just say right there, if we look at that 1954 decision and then examine the establishment of private schools or independent schools, it coincides.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It absolutely coincides.
Speaker: So the response by some people who so leaning to the side is to start their own thing.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: To say, oh, if everybody, including black children, can come to school with my
Speaker: white children, then I'm going to pull my white children out and send them to, let's start our own school.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So that's what we saw.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And let me just say this.
Speaker: We also saw it at the height of our COVID-19 pandemic when our children were sent home from school, right?
Speaker: And homeschool pods popped up.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And people who could afford it,
Speaker: Paid teachers to teach their children separately and pay them while pulling them away from the larger context of the classroom.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So amplifying a problem because you have the economic status to be able to do that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So that kind of stuff is still happening.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Quite fast.
Speaker: And we didn't even mention the indigenous community within this country and how education was used, once again, systematically to try to erase education.
Speaker: in a race and entire culture and people group, right?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And so, I mean, this is alongside of the physical violence and genocide attempt that was happening.
Speaker: So it's like, you know, if we can't break your bodies, we'll break your spirit within these educational settings.
Speaker: And so we know education wasn't set up to educate all people.
Speaker: It wasn't set up for equity.
Speaker: However, in the face of that,
Speaker: there were individuals who have worked systematically to create equity within the space and try to present reforms that provide opportunity for all people, regardless of zip code.
Speaker: Now, those individuals made tremendous progress, but unfortunately, we're seeing a lot of progress being turned back and more systematic targeting of individuals.
Speaker: And so what I want you to talk about now is
Speaker: not from the high-level theoretical approach, but how is this impacting teachers and those who support education equity from a more practical standpoint?
Speaker: Just talk to us a little bit about things that you've heard in the classroom from educators and how they've been impacted from this.
Speaker: I will say that there is a certain fear.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: that a lot of the people who are still in education live with kind of from day to day.
Speaker: There's also some confusion.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Not knowing what to teach or how to teach it or just the fear of who will be offended or what am I supposed to say?
Speaker: This was okay yesterday.
Speaker: It's not okay today.
Speaker: And also just the fatigue is what I'm seeing a lot of because people making decisions about
Speaker: teachers and educators who have never stepped a foot in the classroom to teach or educate, right?
Speaker: Their last time being in the classroom was as a student.
Speaker: And so there are people that we have voted for, you know, they're elected officials.
Speaker: Some are elected and some are not, who are making decisions that
Speaker: that are really impacting the lives, the livelihood of teachers.
Speaker: And so when we think about the banning of books that actually talk about the history of our nation, you think about like people who teach history, right?
Speaker: Their job is to teach the history of our nation, but now they're told, teach this part, but not that part.
Speaker: Or let them read this book, but not that book.
Speaker: Or don't talk about that too much because it makes people feel bad.
Speaker: History is just that, right?
Speaker: And we've been told, or I've been told all of my life that you should learn something.
Speaker: from history.
Speaker: But now what we have are people who've gone to school and been trained to be educators, trained to teach history, being told not to teach history.
Speaker: And so there is this, almost this
Speaker: There's an insatiable appetite for power that teachers are caught in between, but ultimately it hurts our students and it puts them in the middle of a battle that they were just never meant to fight, right?
Speaker: So there's that.
Speaker: I just see there's a lot of confusion in that it does create a shift or a flight.
Speaker: Like there are a lot of people leaving education because they don't want to have to deal with it in such a
Speaker: A negative political connotation.
Speaker: Maybe let's kind of sit right there for a little bit, because, you know, with all the things that are happening, it's not like teachers were sitting around twiddling their thumbs, right?
Speaker: There was always an abundance of work that needed to be completed, never mind confusing policies that continue to come left and right.
Speaker: In addition to trying to understand what's happening at the local level from parents and other educators and your principal and the local school board.
Speaker: So it's always a ton of things to balance and to carry, which can leave you feeling overwhelmed, burdened, hopeless.
Speaker: What are some practical ways to carry that load?
Speaker: How do we begin to balance the lamenting of the dismantling of education and history and people groups while also rejoicing in the continued opportunities to be together and rejoicing in the remnant, that there remains a remnant who are ready to work?
Speaker: So kind of talk to us about that a little bit.
Speaker: First of all, we can't do this by ourselves.
Speaker: Like, don't be trying to hero this.
Speaker: This organization is called Christian Community for a reason.
Speaker: Not Christian individual, right?
Speaker: And so understanding that there is a community aspect of community.
Speaker: bearing this load because it is heavy.
Speaker: It's right heavy.
Speaker: And you don't get to carry it by yourself.
Speaker: And you don't have to.
Speaker: You're not expecting.
Speaker: I mean, let's be real, y'all.
Speaker: Jesus didn't even carry that cross by his self.
Speaker: Hello.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And so we don't have to try to do this by ourselves.
Speaker: In fact, we should not.
Speaker: And so thinking about
Speaker: In your community, in your context, one of the things I will say is,
Speaker: Know stuff, like really know what's going on in the education system of your local.
Speaker: I mean, on the most local level, know that, okay?
Speaker: Because that is where we really can have the most impact.
Speaker: I had the opportunity to be a part of something really amazing recently.
Speaker: A lot of churches that have libraries are starting libraries now.
Speaker: are buying these books that have been banned or, you know, taken off of the shelves in public libraries or at schools.
Speaker: They are putting them in their church's libraries so that students will still have access to these resources.
Speaker: And so one of the things that you really can do is make sure that these books that are being taken off shelves, make sure that there's still access to them.
Speaker: If you are in a place where you can, there is the space, physical space for a library or just books.
Speaker: multiple bookshelves, put some of these books that are banned on the shelves and be really aware of what your local school board is doing and saying, be aware of what your local library is doing and saying.
Speaker: And be willing to ask questions about it.
Speaker: And it's beyond whether you have a child in the public school system or not.
Speaker: In fact, one of the things that people kind of tease me or laugh at me about is,
Speaker: I don't have any children.
Speaker: Buddy and I have no children in nobody's school system.
Speaker: We never have.
Speaker: However, what we gonna know is what's going on.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Like we gonna know because everybody is impacted by violence.
Speaker: who is being taught and what is being taught in our local schools.
Speaker: And so just being aware, showing your face and showing that you care.
Speaker: That's one way.
Speaker: And I think if you are in a position in a church or at some community center where you can have books that are being banned, house those books and make sure that they are available for those who still want to access them.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: That's a very practical way for a local congregation to make impact or even a local family, right?
Speaker: To have an impact, making sure that people see that.
Speaker: We be putting books out there.
Speaker: Me and Buddy be putting books in these libraries.
Speaker: Can we be putting all my business in the streets?
Speaker: The kids know.
Speaker: The kids know they can go to Mr. Lorenzo's house and get some books and some snacks too.
Speaker: Okay, fine.
Speaker: Well, I'm glad you talked about local, right?
Speaker: Because I would imagine some of the hopelessness that people feel is that we are inundated sort of night and day with this national discourse.
Speaker: But our ability to enact change might be limited, right?
Speaker: Or we feel overwhelmed because the conversations are so big.
Speaker: But if we scope that down to our local neighborhood, or even we can go as local as what's happening in your house and then what's happening in your neighbor's house and just kind of grow from there.
Speaker: If you do that, you can begin to identify small wins that create momentum, right?
Speaker: And then I would also encourage folks, as you're thinking about things like that, rest assured that there are other people in other places who are also living this out.
Speaker: Sometimes we overwhelm ourselves feeling like we have to do everything.
Speaker: But we're not the only ones.
Speaker: That's part of the beauty of being in the community is that there is somebody else loving another place and I can focus on loving this place, right?
Speaker: And then from time to time, we can come together and kind of share with each other and keep each other encouraged.
Speaker: But I can run in my space and place with confidence because I know that you are in your space and place and then that the spirit is connecting the two of us, right?
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: We can get together at the CCDA conference in Grand Rapids.
Speaker: That's what we can get together.
Speaker: And when we think about education equity, it's just really important.
Speaker: Now, what I will say is just to also realize the importance of also just being there.
Speaker: When you talk about local, one of the stories I like to share about y'all's president, my spouse,
Speaker: Listen, the kids love him.
Speaker: I don't know why.
Speaker: I mean, I know he lovable, y'all.
Speaker: OK, so the local babies love him and he will take time with them and they know this.
Speaker: And so he has these young kids out here thinking they're making YouTube videos and they are meteorologists and reading the clouds.
Speaker: And I mean, just so many things.
Speaker: These are one of the things that it.
Speaker: They're real videos.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: They are real videos.
Speaker: However, they are not on nobody's YouTube, okay?
Speaker: So they are actual videos, yes.
Speaker: With his phone...
Speaker: That does not make nobody no cameraman.
Speaker: But you can't tell these nine-year-olds that they're not a cameraman and they don't have a YouTube channel because what Mr. Lorenzo is going to meet us at the community center and we're going to talk about the clouds and the weather and all the things, right?
Speaker: So I love that because what we can do is make sure a friend next door.
Speaker: knows that Mr. Lorenzo cares enough about him to come visit him at school or to take him some lunch or support him in whatever way possible to buy him a book
Speaker: or a personal pan pizza for doing something positive.
Speaker: That is equitable.
Speaker: Those are equitable actions because what it does is says, I might not have
Speaker: this thing at home, but I can look into my community and find it.
Speaker: And every community needs someone who cares regardless about the most vulnerable in that community.
Speaker: And so our challenge is
Speaker: It could be you, right?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So don't get caught up into things that you really can't do anything about when chances are there is something arms wreath, footsteps away.
Speaker: There's something that you can do something about and can impact.
Speaker: And that action creates equity for a child who needs it.
Speaker: Yeah, I would say that much of what you're talking about really starts with some of our CCD principles, right?
Speaker: So this idea of just listening, and maybe even before that, just being proximate, being close enough to listen.
Speaker: And so I think it's important, too, to remind individuals and communities that while we feel the urgency of the moment, we cannot get so passionate that we begin to forsake
Speaker: the principles of communal being, like communally residing or our neighborhoods, right?
Speaker: Because what I've sometimes see is that
Speaker: we'll be really upset because something is happening and we'll rush to solution because we want to end what we're seeing as quickly as possible.
Speaker: And sometimes in our haste, it causes us to jump past those steps and we sometimes inadvertently, or at least I would like to think it's inadvertently, further dehumanize the people that we actually want to support.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: And so...
Speaker: Talk a little bit about how do we, in the height of passion, remain rooted in community, in our faith?
Speaker: How do we remain grounded in Scripture in a way that keeps us aligned with the heart of Jesus, while at the same time pushing our communities forward toward a more just and equitable society, and with education in particular?
Speaker: I will have to say, remember what called you to wherever you are.
Speaker: Remember who called you to wherever you are.
Speaker: And whoever you feel you're called to serve, make sure that person or those people or are a part of who you are.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think part of the reason remain grounded is because I keep kids around me like they are my accountability partners and they don't know how to sugarcoat.
Speaker: No, they don't.
Speaker: Nothing.
Speaker: And we'll remind you, like they remind me, you said you were going to have dinner with me and we was going to eat macaroni and cheese.
Speaker: That's what you said.
Speaker: And you didn't show up and I had to eat peanut butter and jelly.
Speaker: You not honest, right?
Speaker: They don't care why, because the why is not important.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: So being accountable is definitely a way in which to do that.
Speaker: And that takes a certain level of humility as well.
Speaker: I remember watching Buddy get in trouble from one of the kids.
Speaker: And he was like, well, I went to graduate.
Speaker: He got a doctoral degree.
Speaker: Don't nobody care?
Speaker: It doesn't matter.
Speaker: Where was you at?
Speaker: Listen.
Speaker: Who cares?
Speaker: You supposed to be here.
Speaker: Don't nobody care about you being a doctor, sir.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: Not this person.
Speaker: And so they were proud in the next moment because they understood like what it meant as much as they could.
Speaker: But the level of accountability, I think that we can lean into when we're in community and when we are really activating people
Speaker: These principles, this CCD philosophy in our lives is life-changing.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It enables you to keep yourself accountable.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Like, how am I listening to
Speaker: If I know that this person will be able to attend and be in worship service better when they have headphones on their ears to help cancel out some of that noise, but I go and get them earbuds because it's the latest and new fad, because I like them better, then I have not listened to that person, that individual's need.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I'm operating in self.
Speaker: And that is a disservice.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So there is a way in which we can show up that does elevate the needs of the community.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And that's what equity is.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: It's saying I am elevating the needs of the least of these.
Speaker: This is something that I think sometimes we miss like over our heads.
Speaker: If the person who has the most needs has their needs met, then so does everybody else.
Speaker: Like we're not taking away anything from anybody else.
Speaker: Look for the one who has the most needs.
Speaker: meet that person's needs and everybody else's needs are met.
Speaker: So it's not like you're taking from one to give to the other.
Speaker: And first of all, that mentality is not rooted in the abundance of God, right?
Speaker: And so keeping that at the forefront of your mind, when we are governing ourselves by this CCD philosophy, you really can't lose.
Speaker: There's nothing to lose.
Speaker: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker: And attaching this comment to where you were talking about, you know, thinking about what is God's focus in that particular situation, we have to remember that
Speaker: the desire to see communities flourish is coming from Scripture.
Speaker: It is coming from God, right?
Speaker: And that God is an active participant in the flourishing of our spaces and places.
Speaker: And so when we allow the circumstance to move our eyes or our gaze away from the Spirit, we're actually moving our eyes and our gaze away from the One who can cause us to flourish.
Speaker: And so that kind of goes back to that need to remain grounded in Scripture, to remain grounded in the one who created us to love each other and to be in community.
Speaker: And so I think that that's another strong reminder as well.
Speaker: Let's stay grounded in Scripture.
Speaker: Let's stay grounded in this spirit that is moving us closer together as a part of this divine design.
Speaker: Do you have a grounding scripture, Reverend?
Speaker: Do I have a grounding?
Speaker: What is your grounding scripture, the scripture that grounds you, Reverend?
Speaker: What is it?
Speaker: My grounding scripture is always Romans 12 and 1.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So I won't quote it, but the call there...
Speaker: The call there is this constant renewal of the mind, right?
Speaker: That we are to give ourselves as a living sacrifice to God.
Speaker: And that's how we'll be able to experience the goodness of God in all places.
Speaker: It's that holistic offering of self.
Speaker: That is my grounding.
Speaker: When I wake up in the morning, I'm constantly offering myself to God.
Speaker: Here I am, God.
Speaker: You and I always say to each other, you have to discern the season and dress accordingly.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: If it's cold outside, I better put on that jacket.
Speaker: You know, if it's not, I better take the jacket off.
Speaker: And so when we wake up in the morning, it's like, OK, God, what season are we in and how do I need to dress?
Speaker: And so that that for me is the grounding.
Speaker: It goes back to what you were saying before, that it leaves space for things to change and evolve differently.
Speaker: right?
Speaker: Because sometimes we kind of hold things a certain way.
Speaker: We have an experience and we expect it to be the same always, or we expect God to do the same thing all the time.
Speaker: But that's not true, right?
Speaker: Things evolve and they change, and we've got to be ready to kind of move and shift with that change for the benefit of our communities.
Speaker: And so that's my grounding.
Speaker: That's kind of how I approach it day to day.
Speaker: And it's fun.
Speaker: It's exciting to think about it because God is doing some cool stuff.
Speaker: And
Speaker: I enjoy being a part of that in the small, small ways that I can.
Speaker: Ain't no small ways.
Speaker: We're not going to let you say small ways you can.
Speaker: You can say ways, but you're not.
Speaker: Don't put no adjectives.
Speaker: I just say way.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: The ways.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Buddy, I love you.
Speaker: I love you, too.
Speaker: We got more questions, though.
Speaker: Are you done?
Speaker: Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker: You trying to you trying to leave?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: I guess I better wrap it up.
Speaker: I can talk to you all the time.
Speaker: I know you can, but that's part of you being distracted, right?
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: You think we just on the couch having a conversation, but this is the actual, this you at work.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So I want to say to the CCDA community, this is like every day.
Speaker: I get excited to talk and then she's like, all right, well, we got to go do something else.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: It's the truth.
Speaker: It's the truth.
Speaker: All right, well, I'm going to ask you this last question, and then we'll end it with that.
Speaker: Because I have to ask this question.
Speaker: We ask it every podcast.
Speaker: We ask this question.
Speaker: Okay, here it is.
Speaker: How do you see the CCD philosophy at work in your community?
Speaker: I'm just saying it's so many ways.
Speaker: It's so many ways.
Speaker: I will say this.
Speaker: I will use this example.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: There is a group of men who meet in our community.
Speaker: And El Presidente, Lorenzo Watson is a part of this group.
Speaker: And they were working on a project.
Speaker: And Lorenzo knew how to do it.
Speaker: Like, he could have done it with his eyes closed.
Speaker: But he wanted everyone to do something.
Speaker: Like, he wanted it to be a group project.
Speaker: And so he stayed his hand, right?
Speaker: Like he's like, no, I'm not going to barge ahead.
Speaker: I'm going to let the group do this.
Speaker: I want the group to do it.
Speaker: And so I see at work in a lot of ways that
Speaker: People now adopting a pause and say, wait a minute, you get it?
Speaker: You get it?
Speaker: You with me?
Speaker: You got it?
Speaker: Checking in in a more organic way.
Speaker: I never go a day through this community, through my community, through my neighborhood, and not hear someone ask somebody else, you good?
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: What I see is people being very intentional about redistributing
Speaker: Because just the other day, there was a there's a neighbor who has been not well.
Speaker: And they said, take what's in my refrigerator and give it to so and so, because I'm not going to be home for a while and I don't want my food to spoil.
Speaker: I'd rather give it away than have it spoiled.
Speaker: Those kinds of of communal thoughts, like thinking about community in that way is.
Speaker: is what it's all about.
Speaker: It fills me with hope.
Speaker: It fills me with hope to see somebody who know how to do something pause long enough to make sure that everybody else knows how to do it too.
Speaker: Because so what if you know how to do it?
Speaker: If nobody else does, that's not community.
Speaker: And so I can appreciate how
Speaker: In our house, we are wearing the garments of this philosophy in ways that have transformed the way we live our lives.
Speaker: And these philosophies sound beautiful on paper, and they are.
Speaker: But when I tell you, when it's time to put them on,
Speaker: it feels different.
Speaker: It don't always feel beautiful.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Sometimes that shirt feels tight.
Speaker: They don't fit right.
Speaker: Like, are these clothes mine?
Speaker: And I'd be wanting to get rid of them.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But it's like, no.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I've already signed up for this.
Speaker: This is my commitment.
Speaker: And so at the end of the day, I am happy that I stuck to what I committed to.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: even when it felt like it was ill-fitting.
Speaker: So it's showing up in me.
Speaker: The CCD philosophy is showing up on the inside of me, okay?
Speaker: And I see it showing up on the inside of you as well, Reverend Dr. Lorenzo A. Watts.
Speaker: Well, thank you, ma'am.
Speaker: We appreciate your participation.
Speaker: I will say that that project is...
Speaker: It was much better as a result of being done in community than if I had done it by myself.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So I am grateful for that, how that process went.
Speaker: And that's it for today.
Speaker: Unless you have any final comments, anything else you want to say?
Speaker: Is your heart clear?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: My, um, I just want to say my mind is so, so clear and you look so fine.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Let me go ahead and say thank you for listening.
Speaker: Thank you for listening to the CCDA podcast and to Liberty, our special guests.
Speaker: If you want to learn more about CCDA, then you can go to CCDA.org.
Speaker: Also, I should let you all know that we are reviving the CCDA Education Equity Network.
Speaker: We're tremendously excited about that.
Speaker: If you want to learn more about the Education Equity Network,
Speaker: Just visit ccda.org slash transformed.
Speaker: Once again, that's ccda.org slash transformed.
Speaker: Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get podcasts from.
Speaker: This episode is produced by Sarah Callen in association with Christina Ford.
Speaker: We will be taking a short break from the podcast over the summer, but be sure to stay connected to CCDA on our website or on social media.
Speaker: We will be back in the fall with another episode featuring CCDA practitioners who are committed to seeing people and communities experience God's Shalom.
Speaker: We'll see you then.
