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Episode 134: The Color Pie of Thanksgiving!
154 Plays4 years ago
Hello, Podwalkers, and welcome back to another episode of the Goblin Lore Podcast! And we are back with our 6th Episode Using The Color Pie to discuss one of our top 3 Topics (Food). With each episode we find ourselves refining our Color Pie Theory for Food/Cooking and today's episode will continue that "refinement". Today we take on the American Holiday of Thanksgiving and with it bring in the discussion of Hybrid Mana as it could relate to food. Also Alex and Hobbes definitely go WAY off the rails and even forget to talk about Gravy...
Again we would like to state that Black Lives Matter (with a link to where you can offer support both monetary and not).
We also are proud to have partnered with Grinding Coffee Co a black, LGBT+ affiliated and owned, coffee business that is aimed at providing coffee to gamers. You can read more about their mission here. You can use our partner code for discounted coffee!
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As promised, we plan to keep these Mental Health Links available moving forward too. For general Mental Health the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) has great resources for people struggling with mental health concerns as well as their families. We also want to draw attention to this article on stigma from NAMI's site.
If you’re thinking about suicide or just need someone to talk to right now, you can get support from any of the resources below.
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-TALK (8255)
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- Trans Lifeline (US): (877) 565-8860
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You can find the hosts on Twitter: Hobbes Q. at @HobbesQ, and Alex Newman at @Mel_Chronicler. Send questions, comments, thoughts, hopes, and dreams to @GoblinLorePod on Twitter or GoblinLorePodcast@gmail.com.
Opening and closing music by Wintergatan (@wintergatan). Logo art by Steven Raffael (@SteveRaffle).
Goblin Lore is proud to be presented by Hipsters of the Coast, and a part of their growing Vorthos content – as well as Magic content of all kinds. Check them out at hipstersofthecoast.com.
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Transcript
Thanksgiving Episode Kickoff
00:00:30
Speaker
Hello, Podwalkers, and welcome to another episode of the Goblin Lore podcast. Hobbs and I are recording today on Thanksgiving in the US, so we decided we pulled an audible to continue the theme because that's a football joke, by the way, an American football joke. Wow, that's impressive. I was going to say. I'm not very versed in sports, but I got that one.
00:00:53
Speaker
I was like, is that it? Is that you're done now? It's not it, but it's it's it's a it's a significant percentage. So anyway, we were going to talk about we're going to do color pie of food and we were going to talk about a different topic, which we will we will still leave shrouded in mystery for a future episode.
00:01:13
Speaker
take advantage of timeliness, and actually talk about Thanksgiving foods, at least American Thanksgiving foods, the color pie of
Reflecting on Thanksgiving's History
00:01:22
Speaker
these. So... Well, before we get started, I just want to real quick say... Yes, before we get started, we have things to talk about. Yeah, things to talk about. One thing that we are thankful for, I mean, I think that that's... What we want to be thinking about is
00:01:22
Speaker
But
00:01:36
Speaker
like this is a holiday more and more kind of steeped in kind of bad history. So I think we just kind of want to acknowledge that all flat out very, but it is kind of you know, it's that that piece of
00:01:50
Speaker
for what it's become is that actual giving of things, which is something that we try to do throughout the year.
Community and Gratitude
00:01:56
Speaker
But as we're doing this, we want to thank a couple of people. We want to thank Grinding Copy Company, as always, for being amazing sponsors and, you know,
00:02:07
Speaker
collaborators for different projects and for the show. And I also want to just give a special shout out to our Discord. I just love them. Everybody who's in that Discord is just so encouraging, so respectful, so just supportive of each other in different times of struggles. And I really feel like if people give when they can in terms of their spoons or whatever they have available to them,
00:02:33
Speaker
And I just think that that's it's just it's it always is a place that I'm glad that we have kind of fostered or a community that's developed out of us doing this cast. Yes. It's it is just incredible to me that that it exists and that these these wonderful folk are spending time kind of together and I'm just so happy and proud that something that we've done has encouraged people, these nice and wonderful people that come together to help build this this
00:03:01
Speaker
small but a fantastic community that we have on our on our discord that is It's a very good call out hubs and it's it's Yeah, yeah so but yeah today it's
00:03:16
Speaker
Yeah. I think you said it well Hobbs and this is this is what happens sometimes and we don't we don't prepare too much for these color pie episodes particularly when we change the topic. And one of us forgets. And then one of us forgets that that's. We won't say who it is. It's someone. It's one of us. Yeah it's 50% of the people talking right now.
00:03:40
Speaker
Yeah. If you guess, you have a 50-50 shot of getting it right. Yep. I'll get this started. Actually, well, I guess we're only three minutes in the cast, so I'm going to introduce
Favorite Thanksgiving Dishes
00:03:51
Speaker
myself. That's actually a good number for us. It usually gets worse. I'm Alex Newman, found on Twitter at Mel underscore chronicler. And just an easy opening question for this is like, what's your favorite
00:04:06
Speaker
Thanksgiving food and and for me it's I'm gonna say stuffing I just love stuffing or dressing depending on regionality within within the US and maybe outside I don't know how widespread this this particular food stuff is but
00:04:23
Speaker
I love it despite the fact that I generally just get it out of a box. Even the cheap stove top is sort of the brand name here. It's one of the things that I just always have in my cupboard because if I'm...
00:04:43
Speaker
We're already on to color pipe things because we're talking about this. I'm like, okay, we'll come back. We'll come back and elaborate on this specifically. Why don't you introduce yourself? Because that one already has me thinking many things. I have actual just thoughts about the Thanksgiving meal in general.
00:05:06
Speaker
We got to keep this shorter because this is a topic like the joke is like I will make this meal with all of its sides multiple times a year if people will let me like I I used to do when I worked at the at a different VA than I'm at now we used to do a Thanksgiving meal for some of the veterans in one of the programs I was in and like
00:05:27
Speaker
the veterans would make fun of me because of how excited I got. So hi, I'm Hobbs Q pronouns he him and can be found on Twitter at Hobbs Q. And this does relate to my answer. And I also want to kind of think about just like,
00:05:42
Speaker
just me say that this topic is something that I could go on about forever.
Thanksgiving Traditions and Recipes
00:05:47
Speaker
So I would generally most years get three meals in within a week with different groups of people. Because I love this food. And
00:05:59
Speaker
The food I'm going to choose is mashed potatoes. And this is something that in particular is my mashed potatoes, the ones that I make. It's a recipe that's based off of something out of the Top Chef cookbook. But this is one of the only things I've ever bought, like one of those devices that you only really need for one thing, but it makes such a difference, which is a ricer, which just, if you don't know what a ricer is, it looks like a giant garlic press.
00:06:25
Speaker
except you put the potatoes in them and you press it through this and they come out as like stringy strands so that then when you like actually mash them they come out like whipped like creamy and when we make these so we made we made a five pound bag of these and we like freeze leftovers uh because I only make these once maybe twice a year they have three sticks of butter
00:06:50
Speaker
Um, they have a cup and a half or so of heavy whipping cream. And generally I put mascarpone cheese in them too. So this is, this is a really good segue. And I want to like step on here more to say no, this is a
Magic: The Gathering and Thanksgiving Foods
00:07:10
Speaker
really good segue. Yeah, sort of a sub conversation that you brought up for actually for the previous topic, but I think it still fits here. Yes. Talking about
00:07:21
Speaker
hybrid man and the color pie of food. And part of that is because for the previous topic that I'm going to just kind of keep like hinting at, but not actually saying what it was. When I mentioned it to you, your first response beyond like, absolutely, let's record that was, okay, but every single one of those, every single one of those is going to be black or maybe black X, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:49
Speaker
There is definitely an element of that. This is going to be heavier on there. And this is in part because some things for this holiday in general, this is one of the eating holidays here in the US. We have drinking holidays and then we have other people's drinking holidays, which we also drink on. But we have this as an eating holiday.
00:08:09
Speaker
And so that makes, that tends to push towards that side of the color pie right there. But also, and like you were saying, the hybrid, and this is, I've had some thoughts about this and I intentionally didn't talk to you because I wanted to try to kind of work through this as we talk. Because hybrid mana is weird in that I think,
00:08:35
Speaker
Hybrid is more of a mechanical thing as opposed to gold, which would be, you know, you have, you know, white and a green in your mana color. That's a gold. If you have a white-green hybrid, that's a hybrid.
00:08:48
Speaker
And so those are mechanical representations of sort of flavor things. I think so. I think that is the reason I kind of was leaning that direction. But where that's interesting, and I'm trying to hash out if this there's a place for this, or how this would fit with the color pie of food is because in gold, it's green and green and white.
00:09:12
Speaker
as opposed to a green-white hybrid is green or white. It could fit solely in either. So maybe there is more there. So from a mechanical standpoint, that card is still in the green, is green, and it's white, because that's how the game mechanically works. But now that I'm talking about it, I think you might be onto something in that there's foods that will fit
00:09:35
Speaker
into one or the other. But see, how is that different from them being in both? So we've talked about them like we've talked on a lot any type of multi colored ones that we've had so far, I would say, we have talked a lot about the fact that it's, it's different pieces. So like, I think of like, blue, green foods that we've talked about in the past is because it is taking a chemical reaction to highlight the natural process.
00:10:02
Speaker
with them. But that that food would not be a like mono blue or a mono green food. Yes. And that's where we're kind of at when it comes to hybrid mana. You I wonder now that we're talking about because there are a bunch of things we get to where it's like, well, it's, it's this
00:10:20
Speaker
But this other version of it that is the same type of food, but is differently done is this other thing instead. And maybe that's where hybrid lives. Maybe it is. And I know that, you know, when when I brought this up for the other food that we are talking around over and over again, but it does work to me for Thanksgiving is I mean, like my initial thought had been those foods were decadent. Yes. And I think that a lot of times
00:10:47
Speaker
Thanksgiving food in America is decadent versions of Kind of a lot of things like I think about I make mashed potatoes all year long. I don't make these mashed potatoes Okay, these mashed potatoes
00:11:01
Speaker
are always going to be able to be represented as they could be a mono-black food. I think that I'm comfortable saying that these could be a mono-black food. And then I could also look at, well, is there other things that it could be? And I think that that's where the initial thought of it that brought it up to me is we've talked a lot in here about just
00:11:25
Speaker
our taxonomy to fit within the color pie. And it was just interesting to me to think of where hybrid mana lies anyway. Forget our color pie. And I think this is something that people struggle with as it is, right? Even there's like an argument that comes with commander all the time of hybrid mana. Yeah, hybrid, you know, should it or shouldn't it represent, you know, from a color identity standpoint, it works just like gold.
00:11:52
Speaker
Yeah, that's where it's like, but should it because technically, if you want to kind of talk about it, a green, white hybrid card that is just that is one or the other you could like, that's how that that's how it's conceptualized, right? Like, that's kind of how Mark Rosewater, I think, has talked about hybrid mana a lot, and why you would do hybrid mana. And it's a fascinating topic.
00:12:14
Speaker
It is. And especially when, you know, after that too, they've used it and now this is a thing where I don't know that they could, but it would have a lot more unintended consequences to change that representation now. Because there is cards that were specifically, where hybrid was used specifically to expand the color pie of these cards.
00:12:41
Speaker
without changing their colors in their casting costs. And the best example of that is the cycle of five that includes Elesha from Fate Reforged, five legends from there, which we actually did, we talked about Elesha during the Legends episode. We didn't spend a lot of time, because I wanted to kind of talk about what that did mechanically, but I think we'll get to that.
00:13:06
Speaker
you know, whenever we get around to talking about Jay's other book. I mean, it only took us a year to get to his first book. Yeah. So that's that. But that is is an interesting design space that Wizards has been able to use because of how hybrid works in commander, where they knew they could take a Leshia and make a card that could be played in one color, used, you know, fully in a two color deck, but is actually a three color commander. Yeah, people who want to play commander.
00:13:35
Speaker
it's and then and then you get into people you know like then this is where you get into weird things right like so this is we're starting to move off a little bit but i think this is because we're gonna tie it to food and i think to understand hybrid mana is thinking about the commander discussion so should i be able to play kitchen things in a mono green or a mono white deck but then you have a legend like alesha right then you get to play so if you're getting to use it that way then you get to say it's all three colors but then if you want to include
00:14:06
Speaker
like certain cards in the deck that are like a red green hybrid, you're now saying that that color identity doesn't matter in some ways. Yeah, and it's become a more complicated question than when it was originally, because it's in cards like that. I mean, and I think I thought I had another example, but I've
00:14:31
Speaker
So there's a few weird examples. I mean like Shards of Alar didn't have legends that did this. So I don't know if it's not as applicable or I shouldn't say it's applicable. It's not as noticeable. But there's a handful of cards that are like one color and then a hybrid color mana as their second mana.
00:14:49
Speaker
Yep. And so that also creates some weird things. Well, there's also, you know, something like beseech the queen. So that's one of the first hybrids that I can really remember shadow more. I'm gonna say shadow more and hope that I'm right. But basically, it combined colorless with a colored mana.
00:15:08
Speaker
So they were like the the early ones were like it would be like to slash a color of mana so you could basically get it for a cheaper reduction cost if you're willing to spend colored mana but you could then play it using any.
00:15:23
Speaker
Yeah, and that creates some weird... It does. ...conversations there, though I don't know that that applies as much for us. I don't think it does. Because it doesn't change the color. It's still mono-black, but there is that whole alternate casting thing for it. Yes. Where you don't have to spend black mana to be playing it. It's similar to phyrexian mana, but it's still definitely in that color.
00:15:47
Speaker
So you could play six of any other and still get the spell, right? Like you don't need any black at all. To get a very black effect. Yes. But that I think from a color identity thing creates less of a question because it's just like, sure, like the packs don't cost any mana at all ever, at least to cast, but they're definitely definitively in a single color, same as cards with suspend that don't have a mana cost. But
00:16:16
Speaker
there's that's a whole other thing. And we're getting a car off topic. It all took us 15 minutes to get off topic. I mean, that's actually pretty good. It's pretty good even talking food up until like the last week. That's true. We were almost on topic for most of it. So I do want to get back because we talked a little bit about black and things, but we haven't really talked about the specifics of the color of high food. So this is the thing we've done a number of episodes on. But this kind of this goes back to
00:16:46
Speaker
Started talking and I can't remember what I was gonna say this goes back to an episode from there. It is from from one of our patrons Zach Who asked this question about sauces and we started from there and sort of built this whole thing around it? But so going in woodwork order This is just a rough idea of kind of where I put and we've been developing this as we go But just to give everyone to bring everyone up to the same page when we're talking about the five colors at least the five mono colors So for white
00:17:15
Speaker
These are gonna make mostly foods that are for the masses, things that are consistent and easy, and this is the one that is the most culturally specific. What's available, consistent, and easy changes culture to culture and region to region a lot more than how some of these others work.
00:17:30
Speaker
Blue are tend to be things with lots of pieces, less natural, there's more manufactured stuff to it. Black is the greasy, fatty flavor at all costs is kind of the thing. And that's where why we say a lot of this stuff fits that. And I'm actually going to contend as we get into some of these, that white is another element that is going to be highly
00:17:58
Speaker
related to hybrid costs.
Cultural Specificity in Thanksgiving Foods
00:18:01
Speaker
And this actually changes a little bit of our discussion that we've had previously, and may actually build off of some stuff of where we struggled with white, or at least where we've run into these kind of like, discussions about white, I think actually may make more sense as we move into hybrid discussion. That's a good cause part of my difficulty with that, we'll get
00:18:23
Speaker
I'm going to get red and green explained and then I can get back to some part of my difficulty with white. Maybe we can get into that. But so red, like what tastes best, reckless abandon. I think, you know, where black is definitely more specific flavor at all costs, red is going to be things. I think the quintessential red thing was like a hot sauce, something that's, that, you know, you're, you want that
00:18:47
Speaker
that reckless, abandoned thing. Red also has a lot of, like when we were talking about preparation, I think things that are quick and easy are a little more leaning towards red because you just want to eat. You want to get that, get ready, go. Yes. Oh gosh, man. See this, this, I'm getting. Yeah. And then let's, and then green is, is kind of the opposite of blue in a lot of ways. It's more natural ingredients. It's, it's fewer things because you're trying to highlight the natural ingredients and you're trying to process things less.
00:19:16
Speaker
So I think in part of my, so we've, and this is, I don't think going to come up as relevant today, but our last episode, I think we really leaned into also kind of talking a little bit about how the color pie of cooking styles, which is one of the things that we end up kind of talking about because like Reddit can be like,
00:19:39
Speaker
chaos like we talked about anything could be a sandwich or just like you cook with what's around you. Yes. As a yeah, as opposed to blue might be like I get a shopping list and I go get the things to do the exact thing or red is just like I just have whatever in the cupboard and this will do. Yes. Or like blue might use like gastronomy techniques or special techniques and that's but yes, red may do something like
00:20:03
Speaker
try to prepare a recipe that needs chicken bullion and use gravy instead, which might happen tonight with my dad. I'm just that's not actually a bad to pull an example that happened from dinner tonight after we got back from from actual like Thanksgiving at my sister's for lunch.
00:20:25
Speaker
This is so amazing to me because I'm just like, well, of course, that makes complete sense to me. Yeah, that's literally something that happened because I don't have any chicken boy. So my parents are staying on the list. So my dad made dinner and was like, well, what do you have made me do with what I had? So yeah.
00:20:42
Speaker
Um, but one of my, one of the things we're still kind of working out, and this is not going to be what we're working out today, but we're kind of, as we go forward, um, one of the things that made me feel a little hot about white, cause this was, I think the sandwich episode when we realized like, I will kind of wanted to put them all there because it's more culturally sensitive, but it's like some of the other ones don't feel like they are as like blue and green in particular are ones that I think feel less. Though what each culture has uses in blue and green are going to be
00:21:10
Speaker
different the specifics of this is steamed vegetable that's green versus this is complex sauce that takes lots of different steps and does lots of different things is gonna be blue and different cultures will have lots of different things that fit in that blue category whereas white changes a lot more I think and it's just
00:21:35
Speaker
it's been odd for me trying and I think I realized one of the last time two things don't always have to be even because that's part of my problem is I feel like even if it's they're not all even I want everyone to be represented but it's like not all colors are going to be represented in all contexts in all places and that's fine. And this is where I am going to go with where I think the hybrid white actually is a lot of what we talk about.
00:22:01
Speaker
That's a good way to categorize that. We have had a lot of discussions about, okay, well a grilled cheese sandwich is white.
00:22:12
Speaker
And then we go on to talk about, but you can also do this, this, and this to a grilled cheese sandwich and elevate it and everything else. I think the way that we had set up white in some ways had been kind of like consistency. You know what you're going to get. But I think that that might be a hybrid piece to it is like, okay, it could be white. So like stuffing, right?
00:22:33
Speaker
Yes. Getting back to your, your very first example, we had a discussion, even as we were signing on air about me talking about, okay, so we're, well, we have to make things gluten free in our house now with Jen celiacs. But even before I would get like bread that was either already stale or, you know, I would take like fresh bread and I would use that. And you were like, yeah, stovetop stuffy.
00:23:02
Speaker
Right. And I'm like, I buy a box. Yeah, I put it in some boiling water. And I sometimes add my own herbs to it too. Because let me tell you. Okay, sorry. Okay. So here's what I do. Here's what I like to do with a box of stovetop stuffing. I get I get the traditional herb or there's a sage one, I think I'll do that. And then you boil water and then in a
00:23:27
Speaker
I put in the stuffing, then I put in dill and garlic. Mix it until all the water is gone and then you serve it.
00:23:37
Speaker
See, this is like, this is where we've had these discussions before, like, you know, like basis white being kind of this, like, you know, but there's that consistency, you know, if you follow those instructions on the back of stove cups and coffee, you're gonna get something is somebody, you know, who who has spent, you know, a lot of time with himself have to just try to cook for one, sometimes it's hard to do that. A, that's a
00:24:04
Speaker
The stuffing saves fairly well, particularly if you reheat it by doing some weird things, frying it, making little patties and stuff. You can do some stuff with it. But it's so easy. If you can boil water, you can make a box of stovetop stuffing.
00:24:22
Speaker
And I love it. So it works out. And see, like, I don't like I want to sauteed onion. I want chopped up. I want chopped up pieces of celery. I don't make like the sausage or I know people like and then, you know, there's like cornbread stuffing. But at the same time, like I want to like.
00:24:44
Speaker
I want to cook my stuffy. Yeah, I want to cook. I just want to eat. So like mashed potatoes is the same way even if we want to say not doing like dehydrated dried. Yeah, we'll set my mashed potatoes aside. Actually mashing potatoes.
00:25:05
Speaker
like even if we go with that though like there this is where i kind of was thinking like mashed potatoes i am taking is like hybrid white black or at least they get so to me that's because they they they could be decadent even if you make them like
00:25:22
Speaker
plane, everybody tends to have mashed potatoes on a table. Like we want to think about a Thanksgiving meal for those of you who are not in the United States. It's like, there's some common things. Turkey, that's usually the big one. But like, not always some people don't like. So like that's there's ham. But like, you let's say a turkey.
00:25:42
Speaker
Uh, stuffing or dressing, um, pretty common, pretty common. And there's a discussion. So you talked about stuffing dressing. Uh, some of that debate gets into whether it's actually put inside the bird or not.
00:25:57
Speaker
Because do you stuff? Or did you put it on the side and cook it in the oven? But there's that there's usually mashed potatoes. And we don't necessarily have to get to the list because then we can talk about them one at a time as we color by code. I'm trying to let some people that maybe like what are these Americans even doing over there understand most of these things.
00:26:20
Speaker
I'm putting hybrid black again, because there are things that you tend to make more decadent at Thanksgiving. Yes. And that's to get back to part of what I was saying, too. This is an eating holiday. And I didn't really finish that thought. That's part of why I feel most of the stuff fits in that color
00:26:38
Speaker
I'm laughing you don't sorry, but I have to do I'm laughing because like you say like I never finished that we had tia transcends one of our amazing amazing patrons and just such an amazing person who commented on our recent episode with Jay just like
00:26:56
Speaker
three episodes, these episodes have been glorious train wrecks of going on tangents. And I love it. Like, yeah, like, what are we even talking about? But yeah, those like, some of these are just excuses for you and I just to get together and just like chat for 45 minutes to an hour and
00:27:17
Speaker
And it's great. It's a fun journey. And it's always weird, but cool. And that people are like, ready to go on that journey with us. But so that's where I was getting to the whole, this is a needing holiday thing where it's about the decadence. It's about the excess. I mean, that's not about that. But that's a feature for sure. For a lot of people it is, right? Like, if we're talking about this as food, it is.
00:27:43
Speaker
Yes. I mean, and part of that is a family thing. Part of that's a community thing, the kind of the point in general, maybe not for everyone all the time always, but in general, the point of it is to make a whole lot of food for a whole lot of people. Yeah. How many people are going to be there? Everyone eats more food than they need to. And then everyone has to bring food home because whoever's hosting cannot use that much food before it goes bad.
Friendsgiving and Community Bonds
00:28:09
Speaker
So you bring Tupperware, you bring food home.
00:28:13
Speaker
because we made too much food. I think we've talked about this before, like with your dad and his cooking. It's like bad if you don't have extra food and Thanksgiving is like that. And there is, you know, even moving this title to friendsgiving because it's really, it's community. I mean, in some ways that's the element of it that I want to highlight and play up is like community.
00:28:39
Speaker
And that's kind of become the important thing for us. I mean, for some people, it's about family. And sometimes, unfortunately, there's family that isn't great to be around. And that's an unfortunate thing sometimes. But I think where this holiday, despite bad origins, can still be great is where it's about the community. It's about introspective. I mean, you talk about being thankful at the top of the show. And that's an important part. It's in the name of the holiday.
00:29:08
Speaker
And that's where things are great. It's about the community, it's about the introspection, and it's about that thankfulness. And that's where it's also about kind of excess food sometimes. And that's where the black comes from. And that's where the white comes from. White is the color of community in a lot of ways. Not entirely. It's not unique to them, but that's a big
00:29:27
Speaker
That's a big component of white. And so it's just, that's where it can be interesting to talk about these foods because those are the drives of that. And that's where the color, that's where, again, we talk about this sort of context thing. It's like stuff is, they're not all going to be.
00:29:45
Speaker
represented. I mean there's even a fairly strong argument for some element of green to at least the holiday as a whole because that's kind of the color of tradition and a lot of this stuff is traditional. That's a key component you have every year especially around this time but it's fairly easy to google and find this stuff. There's the maps of the US and like which regional dishes exist in different parts of the states because in some places macaroni and cheese is a
00:30:13
Speaker
important part of Thanksgiving. That's a thing I've never had. See, and it's really funny that you say that because like, to me, it was because I had family that was vegetarian. And that was always something that my grandmother made just growing up as a dish.
00:30:28
Speaker
like not even a side dish. It was like it was to have another thing. It was just that was big. And our family was making homemade mac and cheese already. So it was really funny to me because like, yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And then I learned the regionality to it. And I think that that's, that's kind of cool about the internet is to me. Sorry. So far afield. Yeah, and it's fine. This is what we do. One of the things I want to do one of those more regional dishes that I wanted to shout out something that we had a lot when I was a kid. And then I think my dad realized none of us like it except for him.
00:30:57
Speaker
So he stopped making it, but it's wild rice.
00:31:01
Speaker
That is a fairly regional thing, at least in Minnesota, from what I've seen. It doesn't seem super widespread outside of here, but it is a particular type of rice that you get here a lot in different things. Like in some restaurants, a common place to see it is like a chicken wild rice soup, which is kind of a cream-based soup with chicken vegetable, like root vegetables and the wild rice. But my dad would do a wild rice
00:31:28
Speaker
I think I would call it a casserole, but it's probably closer to a pilaf. And that was part of Thanksgiving for a while for me. So again, just growing up culturally, that's what I thought was a significant thing. And then I learned that like, no, that's not actually that common because wild rice itself is pretty regional to hear. Ah, yes. That is true. But so I just want to make sure to get to call that out and share that.
00:31:56
Speaker
It's a thing I like, like I said, the rice itself, like just the rice, the dish, I didn't enjoy so much. Chicken wild rice soup, I love. Forever in Minnesota. Literally, how many foods have you actually done? One? What's the color? I don't know, green? Are you talking wild rice? Like half the audience is just like, what are we talking about? That's not a Thanksgiving food. We just lost like entire coasts.
00:32:25
Speaker
Well, okay, first of all, we're talking about an excuse. The today is American Thanksgiving. So we're talking exclusively about American thing. We're trying to give a window to a specific cultural thing and talk about color by food, food. And so that's why I wanted to contribute to an even smaller for people who are not familiar with that.
00:32:52
Speaker
I mean, to be fair, I will say that there definitely is... I think that if we have people listening from overseas, they're probably never going to actually want Thanksgiving at this point. They're going to be like, we don't need whatever this meal is. The goblins don't even know what they're doing. Well, yeah. All right. So why don't you... I don't know. What do you think it has?
00:33:19
Speaker
For which? We'll talk turkey. I don't know. Pick one. Let's talk turkey. Because that is the centerpiece. It is. For most people. Highlighting the fact that most of this is in excess. And usually, as you say, you build it more decadent. So we're setting those aside. Turkey is turkey.
Classifying Thanksgiving Foods in the Color Pie
00:33:43
Speaker
You cook the bird. You serve the meat. That's green, I guess, in that sense.
00:33:50
Speaker
Yes, like the things that you're doing to a turkey are still generally to enhance kind of natural flavors and in a way that I don't think we're pushing it out. Like because even the most of the ways to highlight or like to enhance it are natural.
00:34:06
Speaker
Yeah, brining it is so like you so you soak it in like a salt and herb, maybe you could do seasoning, like, like water. And just because turkeys can dry out very easily. And so this is like you're doing things to add moisture in so it doesn't dry out to keep it good. And then you know, you and I talked
00:34:29
Speaker
Earlier today, I talked about like the turkey that we did this year, we did aromatics, which is ways to kind of get some more flavors into turkey naturally. Usually it's like adding sprigs of herbs, adding some fruit or some citrus, some veggies, and you cook them either in the pan or in the cavity of the bird, but it's really to like add flavor to it and it's to enhance it, it's to compliment it, it's not to change it.
00:34:56
Speaker
Yeah, you're trying to help the turkey, turkey harder, and that is pretty green. Yeah, I think that one is like the easiest one of anything we talked about today. So there, now you get to pick something. There we go. Cranberry sauce.
00:35:15
Speaker
I knew you were going to choose this. I knew it. My whole mind, my brain. There's two particular variants of this and one is more green and one is more blue green is my argument here for cranberry sauce.
00:35:33
Speaker
It's I mean, one of them is basically cranberries with with a little bit of I don't know, I've never made it. So I'm guessing cranberries usually with a citrus sort of juice using something like an orange juice. Basically, you kind of cook them until they like pop. It's really about using whole round whole cranberries, you some spices, some maybe some bourbon if you cook like my family.
00:36:03
Speaker
I don't think my dad used bourbon this year when he made his cranberries, but it's a thing. It's a thing. Yeah. But either way, it's about whole fruits. You are still cooking them until they almost like they are becoming a little bit more like a gelatin-like consistency. However,
00:36:22
Speaker
However, so that's a more green. That's one end of the spectrum. It's more green. It's not entirely, but it's more green because, again, it's about the whole cranberries. It's about doing more to them, but it's about the cranberry. The other one, which you might have seen in horror videos about American Thanksgiving. Whoa, whoa. We need to have discussions before we get on the show together. I love canned cranberry sauce.
00:36:50
Speaker
But for someone who has not grown up with it, it looks freaky. And I don't think you can argue that, Point Hobbs, because it is gelatinous.
00:37:02
Speaker
purple looking thing that is the shape of the can you have to literally literally crack the can open and you you'd like try to pour it out you have to like turn it upside down to get the butter knife in there sometimes yeah if you have to get that satisfying like noise
00:37:21
Speaker
whoops out and you could easily slice it because it has rings from the can. Because it's, yes. And there's preferably no real cranberries in it at all. That's a lie. I'm just kidding. I'm exaggerating for effect there a little bit. That is much more simic. This is using science.
00:37:48
Speaker
to provide a food that is kind of like the food that it's supposed to be in nature.
00:37:54
Speaker
But is it really? This is the most simic. Like we talk blue, green a lot on the show. We haven't even gotten into the fields. This is simic. I'm not gonna like going all the way back to the sauces when we talk about the color pie of things. Every time we talk about simic, I think cranberry, canned cranberry sauce, that has been the image in my head for two years when we've talked about this topic.
00:38:24
Speaker
They even there was there's been articles this year about the fact that like ocean spray cranberry sauce labels are upside down and it's because you're supposed to take the lid off in that way to get them to come out. Like when you turn it upside down, the label will be correct side up. Yep.
00:38:40
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's like we don't even normally get into guilds. There's no other way about it. Well, that's true Yeah, it's not just green blue. No, no, it's clearly come up with some way to make it grow like that naturally
00:39:05
Speaker
to just cut out all of these other processes, just like this is the most efficient way to make this happen. I don't know though, it feels like it has to come out of a can or it's not right. You make the cans grow naturally. Okay, that's fair. We got that. Um, let's go with um,
00:39:26
Speaker
You know, let's stick, we're still sticking with these. Did we actually, we did talk potatoes stuffing? Yeah. Well, okay. Stuffing generally bread, but we talked stuffing and mashed potatoes, yeah. Well, potatoes, I actually was going to say potatoes to me are, I think I said they were clearly black hybrid. Yeah. I don't know if I said what I thought they were otherwise. You said black white for mashed potatoes. Well, okay. That's what you said. At least that's what I recall you saying.
00:39:54
Speaker
I don't know if you have more to add to that. If you do, great. You know, I'm thinking of like ways for red. And I think that there is. No, no, this is going to be this is, you know, unfortunately, it hurts to say it as a goblin, but this is going to be a little red list. I don't know that it'll be entirely red. It will not. I already have a red food ready to go. But there is there is a lot less. I could think so.
00:40:18
Speaker
Yeah, my brother in law did today where he just had like open spots on the serving dish he picked. He's like, Oh, I guess I'll just fill this. It's like, it's kind of a red approach to that. That's the red approach. But that's not red food. And because I have some I have that's good. I'm glad you have that. But it's just because so much of this stuff is generally based on tradition. So much of the stuff tends to be more decadent. A lot of it just requires the prep time there just isn't really the red
00:40:45
Speaker
Well, I was gonna say, red comes in the fact that like, people forget everything that they need until the last minute, and they are rushing to stores. Yeah, the red comes from going to the grocery store, you know, eight in the morning on Thanksgiving to get this thing that I was missing. Yeah, that's fair. So that's where I think that yeah, I think that's where it is. Where are you going next, Alex? Another one of my favorites is green bean casserole.
00:41:16
Speaker
So this is, well, I love it. This is another weird one. And this one also has some weird, just how you grow things. So the basics of this is, this is green beans and this is like cream of mushroom soup. And there's a lot more you can do with it. And of course you gotta put little crunchy onions on top, French's onions or some similar thing. But like,
00:41:44
Speaker
This, it was funny to me. It's like, I've always loved this as a kid. This was one of my favorite things. And it was actually very close to me seeing this instead of stuffing at the top of the show.
00:41:54
Speaker
But having grown up for a long time where we didn't have tons of money, like we get canned green beans. It just makes it easier or cheaper. We just put them together and mix it up. Cool. Well, then one year my grandma said, you know what? We're going to do fresh green beans. We're going to do a treat for the kids. We're going to make green bean casserole with fresh green beans. And none of us liked it.
00:42:17
Speaker
because we were not used to the consistency of a fresh green bean. It was tough, or not tough, it was a little more crunchy, it was a little tougher, and we're just like, this is not what we want from a green bean casserole. This is not what we are used to from a green bean casserole. I don't know, color pie-wise, like you say, this is, I think, where that hybrid comes in, because you're making it with fresh green beans,
00:42:44
Speaker
it's a little more green. But even when you're mixing all those cream and mushroom things, you're putting this other stuff in there, it still becomes more black decadent. I think if you make it out of canned stuff, you have no green in it at all. I mean, I'm thinking about the fact that like, this is a clear example of like, how Americans in some ways can take healthier ingredients and just say, screw you.
00:43:12
Speaker
we're going to find out how we can possibly like, yeah, we're gonna add cream of mushroom soup to a vegetable. And then we're gonna call it a casserole. Like, yep. Yeah. Yeah. But you can't forget
00:43:32
Speaker
the French's onions. Even if you were gonna make this from scratch, a lot of people would feel you have to have some sort of like battered dried onions. Yes, these crispy fried onions. Crispy fried onions. Yeah, you put them on top and then if you're my family, you put some on top and then you put the container of the onions on the table so that people can take more.
00:44:13
Speaker
Like the joke is because we've had to do things to make make elements of Thanksgiving celiac friendly for Jen is, you know, trying to find those onions. Basically, it's like if we can't find them, I really have no desire to have it. So it is an integral part for a lot of people. And especially like if again, if you're like me or my family where we grew up with canned,
00:44:24
Speaker
after they've scooped their green beans.
00:44:43
Speaker
Green beans, that's how you change the consistency can green beans are mushy and then you're adding a soup like a cream It just mushies is that crunch, you know that that extra crunch on it to change the texture
00:45:03
Speaker
I'm still laughing about cream of mushroom. Like that even just concept is amazing to me. We got mushrooms. What do we need to do to get people to eat them? Yeah.
00:45:17
Speaker
Oh, so what you have let's hear. So let's let's move we're gonna move into desserts. Um, and this is where I get to say how we get to have some red ingredients. Okay. Because
00:45:33
Speaker
We are going to introduce pecan pie. And I'm not even going to get us into a discussion of pecan versus pecan. When you use one versus the other, have we had this discussion? No discussion. I do believe we've talked. I know we've talked about pecan pie. So I think we did on the pie episode. And now I'm like, I probably got to completely contradict myself. I remember what I said, and I can do that. But at least some of what I said.
00:46:03
Speaker
But like, so okay, once again, preparation wise, this is something that my wife and I started making when when we first were dating, like the very first year. And it is a pie that like, I never knew what it was growing up, right? Like, I never would have thought about it. Because I just like because I'm like, pecan, that sounds healthy.
00:46:22
Speaker
right once again like well what is a nut in a pie like I know what apple pie is but are you just gonna like put some sugar and nuts together and like throw them into a pie well kind of you're just you're just chopping them up and adding some other stuff first and I think that the reason I'm gonna give it to us is if you make them as they should be made
00:46:46
Speaker
Um, I'm going to use that word should you should put cayenne pepper and you should spice your pecans And there is a reason you're trying to balance out sweetness from the pie, but it is a Very much a red way to approach Balancing out flavors. Yes, it's just throw some heat for folk who aren't familiar with with pecan pie candy pecans
00:47:12
Speaker
do make up the top of it. That is the top. And the rest of it is basically a is like solid caramel custard. Yeah, yeah, it's basically like a custardy type one. When I found out that that pie is like 75% caramel, I felt like to for my entire life was like, I could have been eating pie that it's nothing but sugar that pretends to be healthy because it puts becomes on top. Okay,
00:47:39
Speaker
and it looks pretty like pecans look really good and then you realize that the pecans are also candied but even then like even if you don't make them necessarily spiced even well i think that most people do is like you're putting cumin you're putting these bolder flavors onto it to balance that out and then i'm also thinking that it's full on red because once again we don't just make
00:48:05
Speaker
spiced pecans, we make bourbon spiced pecans. And our caramel filling also has bourbon in it. Yeah, when you when you add bourbon and cayenne pepper to it suddenly, it's red. Yeah, even even like forget the way that we cook it, which is basically me being like, how much water does it say to do? Okay, we replace that with bourbon. And I'll just pour a little bit more. I'm cooking the nuts in them. It's gonna cook it's gonna cook off.
00:48:35
Speaker
Yep. That's a goblin pie right there. Like, really? That's why I was like, that's why I was like, I have read. It's got it's like strip like pecan pie is a goblin pie. Yep. Like, yeah. I like it. Alright, so I guess I can I'll take the traditional the sea I want to talk about because I'll be honest, like the dessert is not what I'm into this this meal for so I pumpkin pie.
00:49:05
Speaker
Pumpkin pie. Pumpkin pie, which you hear a lot about the pumpkin spice, which is actually a different thing. Most often pumpkin spiced things do not have pumpkin flavor. Correct. They are taking the spices that are added to pumpkin pie, and I can never remember all of them. I know it's cloves, I know it's nutmeg, and cinnamon. You're doing well so far. I know there's at least one more, and I can't remember what's that fourth one.
00:49:30
Speaker
Um, so usually there can be a ginger or oftentimes it's all spice and all spice. Okay. So that's like how you make your own, if you're ever wanting to make it. And, and like, that's why they sell things as pumpkin pie spice and your pumpkin spy lattes don't actually have pumpkin in them.
00:49:52
Speaker
Yes. And that's the difference between something that's pumpkin flavored and something that's pumpkin spice flavored usually. And so pumpkin pie is just a pie made out of really pureed pumpkins, those spices and probably some other pie binding things, but I've never made a pie myself.
00:50:11
Speaker
But like those are your primary flavors as you're getting really, you're not getting, I don't think you're getting a lot of flavor out of the pumpkin either. I think that's more of a consistency. It is a consistency thing. It's pretty inert. I mean, like, I mean, we, we make lots of things with pumpkin, like we've made pumpkin ice cream. And when we make it that way, we put those spices and we tend to use real pumpkin in it too. It does add consists. It is more of a, like, it does add like a creaminess. It adds a consistency. Um, it binds. Uh, I mean, in some ways, like it holds, helps hold things together.
00:50:41
Speaker
Okay. But you know, like, and this is a discussion in our household. Yeah, it is a pumpkin based custard filling. A lot of people use like pumpkin pie that come like pumpkin pie filling that comes in a can versus like breaking down a pumpkin themselves. Yep. So this is where we can talk about the fact that like, I'm putting this as hybrid green, because I think that all versions of it in some way are green.
00:51:08
Speaker
I agree. And that's the thing is outside of that, there's pumpkin and then there's some spices and you're not doing much else. Even the most decadent version of this isn't actually going that much further than that. And including in my household where you put an entire tub of Cool Whip on it.
00:51:33
Speaker
My dad's tradition, which is flat genius, is you let everybody else take their pie first and whatever cool if they want, because then you can take your pie and put it into the Cool Whip container and just eat it right out of there with whatever. Your dad is a goblin. Yes, it's amazing. It's like one of those, like, we need to get him on this show at some point. And we've discussed this, I know. But as you were mentioning all of these things, I'm like, your dad is flat out a goblin. And I love it.
00:52:03
Speaker
I love everything about this. So, I mean, we talked about, I think, more tradition. And I think, as you said, that's why there was a lot of green. There's a lot of black in these foods because there is decadent versions of it. And I think it just let us kind of have this fun opening of this discussion of where we can go with hybrid manna and how it plays into our refinement of the color pie for food, for food in particular.
00:52:33
Speaker
I love doing these episodes because it always helps me think about the color pie itself in a magical way. This series to me is one of my favorites because it helps me re-envision magic cards and magic design.
00:52:54
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's nice to be able to take this concept that we are familiar with, you know, in one very specific context and sort of pull it out of that context entirely and say, let's talk about it. I mean, it's the same way like people will do it, you know, what color pipe, we're talking about personality tests and things in a similar way.
00:53:10
Speaker
It's a similar, you know, different version of this conversation, but in a similar way, you're taking it out of that context and you're talking about it in a different context. And it's really interesting. It helps you to sort of test, you know, how do these things work? How do these colors work? How does this stuff fit? And also like for me, like I love just talking about food this way because it lets us do the same thing with food where we're kind of taking it out of its context a little bit and putting it into the color pie and trying to talk through some things.
00:53:39
Speaker
We are and we're also trying to think about, you know, like when it comes to food and just like, just like the wide variety of it. And it's not easy. Well, I'd say you're like, we can't pigeonhole food because there are so many things to be quantifying to try to get it come up with a taxonomy. It makes me kind of think of
00:54:01
Speaker
just like how difficult magic design is, right? To make things that are discrete and that we're getting this bleed, we're getting ideas like hybrid so that we can expand it, ways that we can maybe bend the color pie, but not break it. So are we, is there ways that we can do that with food, right? Like, okay, well, yeah, technically, and this is something we could be looking at something like, okay, this is the ex's part of our color pie, what other colors
00:54:28
Speaker
could this be pushed into as a secondary color, where maybe it isn't that we need to say this is a red-black food, but this is still a red, this is a red food. It's a primary red, a secondary, a tertiary, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, keywords are spread out in some of our stuff before, you know, like, some of our stuff could be in that way. Like, it's a keyword, and it applies across, so... Keyword flamboyed.
00:54:57
Speaker
Where does that fit in the color pie? I think that's pretty primary. He word cookie with alcohol. I mean, flog made definitely secondary red. Yeah, secondary red. Yeah. And we can even have a debate on that. Well, it might be primary red. I think you might be right. Yeah. Well, you know what? That's a pretty good episode right there. Yeah, I'm feeling good about that.
00:55:24
Speaker
If any of you ever visit the States and you're around our neck of the woods, I will cook you a meal based on this episode alone. And just for you, not for me, not for me, for you to experience American Thanksgiving in all of its glory. And it will be for you. It won't be selfish. It won't be me pulling any sneaky goblin tricks. It'll be for you only.
00:55:54
Speaker
And that's our show for today. You can find the host on Twitter. HotzQ can be found at HotzQ, and Alex Newman can be found at Mel.com. Send any questions, comments, thoughts, hopes, and dreams to at goblinmoorpod on Twitter or email us at goblinmoorpodcast at email.com.
00:56:12
Speaker
If you want to support your friendly neighborhood gospel, the cast can be found at patreon.com. Opening and closing music by Vindergotten, who can be found on twitter at Vindergotten, or online at vindergotten.bandcamp.com. Logo art by Steven Raffaeo, who can be found on twitter at steve raffled.
00:56:35
Speaker
Goblin Lore is proud to be presented by Hipsters of the Coast as part of their growing Vorthos content, as well as magic content of all kinds. Check them out on Twitter at hipstersmtg or online at hipstersofthecoast.com. Thank you all for listening, and remember, goblins, like snowflakes, are only dangerous in numbers.