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E05 - Amanda Feldman, Managing Director at Sonen Capital
62 Plays1 month ago
In this episode of Women Changing Finance, Krisztina Tora speaks with Amanda Feldman, Managing Director at Sonen Capital, a leading impact investment firm, where she leads Impact Engagement. With years of experience in impact investing, sustainability, and a deep commitment to impact management and measurement, Amanda shares her insights about the industry's evolving landscape. From her global vantage point spanning the US, Latin America, and Europe, Amanda discusses her role in shaping the foundations of the Impact Management Platform, and the key challenges and opportunities in mobilizing private capital for social and environmental change. She emphasizes the importance of listening to the entrepreneurs who know best what is needed to scale impact, she talks about the art of building consensus, and the need to ensure that impact risks are managed alongside financial returns. Tune in to hear Amanda’s powerful perspective on the future of impact investing and how she’s contributing to the creation of a more inclusive and accountable financial ecosystem.
Please review the episode, share your feedback and subscribe to the podcast!
You can also:
- Visit our website: womenchangingfinance.org
- Follow Amanda on LinkedIn
- Read Amanda's full bio
To go further here are some of the references mentioned during the episode:
- Sonen Capital https://sonencapital.com/
- Volans https://volans.com/
- Bridges Fund Management https://www.bridgesfundmanagement.com/
- Impact Management Platform https://impactmanagementplatform.org/
- Maze https://maze-impact.com/
- FLII https://flii.org/
- Poem “The Way It Is” by William Stafford https://grateful.org/resource/the-way-it-is-william-stafford/
Recommended
Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:05
Speaker
Hi! Welcome to the podcast Women Changing Finance, where you will discover amazing women from all around the world who are making finance become a force for good.
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to the podcast, Women Changing Finance.
Introducing Amanda Feldman
00:00:24
Speaker
i'm Krisztina Tora, and I'm welcoming today Amanda Feldman, who's currently Managing Director Sonen Capital, an impact investment firm.
00:00:32
Speaker
She's also an advisor to Maze Impact, a mentor for various social enterprise support programs, and a member of the board audit committee of the Private Infrastructure and Development Group, PIDG, a major development finance organization.
00:00:46
Speaker
I met Amanda in 2013 when I was looking for a job in London and we immediately clicked and she shared with me her contacts and insights into the impact ecosystem in the UK. So thank you, Amanda.
00:01:00
Speaker
It's ah largely due to you that I'm here today. Look how far we've come. Yes, exactly. But more importantly, Amanda, you're one of the pioneers and practitioners who's been most actively shaping the impact industry for the past 15 years.
00:01:17
Speaker
So I'm incredibly happy to have you on the podcast today. Thank you for making the time. So before we go further into your journey and your work, I'd love to hear from you your thoughts on what you're seeing, where you're working.
00:01:31
Speaker
So I know you're based in different places, which is also quite unique. We'd love to hear from you how those different ecosystems are similar or different, what you're seeing, what trends you're seeing, and to what extent some places are faster in progressing than others, perhaps.
Amanda's Global Perspective
00:01:51
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me, Krisztina. It's an honor. And as you you can hear, I have an American accent I can't kick. So I was born and raised in the U.S., but most of my adult life has actually been in London and Lisbon and now where I'm based.
00:02:11
Speaker
And however, through my roles, I spend a lot of time in the US, based in New York as well. And I really believe that it's possible now to have a multinodal existence.
00:02:22
Speaker
What that means for our work, though, is that you're constantly scene shifting, right? Changing the context. And even as we look at how the industry of impact investing and investing in impact has evolved, it's a very different narrative when I'm here in the US versus when I'm in Lisbon working with entrepreneurs or London, when we're talking about standards that are being created for understanding the role of business and investment in society.
00:02:53
Speaker
For me, that is incredibly intellectually stimulating. right I think a big part of the task we have is to understand what we're doing in the context we're doing it. right And in Latin America, when you're working there, it's leading with the heart.
00:03:06
Speaker
It's finding ways to bridge communities and drive change that that leads from a place of of love and stewardship. And then sometimes you're in Europe and you're thinking from this intellectual, what kind of data fields do we need to align with the industry standards and the metrics? that's and That's okay too. We need all of this, I think, to drive change. So from my perspective, which is very international and global by design, I think it actually gives me a lot of energy to get creative and to think about the different pathways to achieving impact that we all have.
Passion for Impact Measurement
00:03:43
Speaker
Thank you. And you have kind of preferred or inspiring impact stories or favorite social entrepreneurs that you can point at from your different vantage points?
00:03:58
Speaker
Oh, that's tricky. There's so many moments each day that I'm inspired by what I'm seeing. And actually, it's why, as you described my profile, i keep so many interesting roles, right? Because a lot of my work, that's actually backing funds and thinking about how we channel capital, which is very far away.
00:04:22
Speaker
from the entrepreneurs that you're talking about, but is stewarded by really incredible fund managers, first-time managers, diverse managers that are really breaking through into new models of what it means to allocate capital.
00:04:38
Speaker
And then there's the actual entrepreneurs and organizations they back that are driving change on the ground. I'm struggling and I could not do justice to sort of the ones that have shaped my path more or less over the years, especially given all the geographies I've worked in.
00:04:56
Speaker
But I do want to give a shout out to the ones who are who are driving change a bit far from the impact they're creating. Because it's hard. I know you you know this feeling, right? We really want to believe that the work we're doing is important.
00:05:09
Speaker
But sometimes it feels just like five layers away from the actual change that's happening. And that's why I've geeked out so much on impact measurement and management, right? Because it gives me the tools to understand what's happening or try to understand what's happening, even though I might be very far away working with an asset owner who's trying to allocate as much of their capital as they can towards good.
00:05:30
Speaker
So I guess I want to give a shout out to all of the first-time fund managers, the asset owners who are trying to do the best they can, um but very, very distant, perhaps at times and potentially lonely compared to the change makers on the ground who are who are working directly with communities.
Career Advice and Personal Insights
00:05:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's sort of a really important point. And do you have any, maybe any advice for people who are feeling, you know, they're passionately working to create change in the ecosystem or in regulations or policy or policies?
00:06:06
Speaker
large asset managers that are so far removed from the actual change that might be happening. And it can feel a bit lonely, can feel a bit disheartening sometimes.
00:06:17
Speaker
What are your thoughts on how to maintain the passion day after day for people like that? It's a really tough question for us all, but it's also an opportunity, right? Because it can also feel very safe to be very far away. And I think we cannot underestimate how much harder it is, even if we're drowning in acronyms and logo soups.
00:06:38
Speaker
We can't deny how much harder it is to be working with these problems face to face. And so what's been important for me is to always maintain that perspective, whether it's through volunteering or board roles or working together.
00:06:51
Speaker
directly with really early stage entrepreneurs, visionaries who think they have a way to change the way things are done. That gives me sort of weekly or monthly, like a dose of pragmatism and optimism, right? It gives me a sense of what am I talking about in this standard setting world, for example, that's just so far away from the reality of what these entrepreneurs are doing.
00:07:17
Speaker
But also, what am I doing these five steps away from them that could help make their lives a little easier. And so the only way you know that other than guessing is to really talk to them, support them, advise them, not teach them. I think there's i think there's a lot to be said for listening and not telling them how it's done, but learning sort of what the reality is on the ground. So for me, that's been through volunteering, advisory roles, mentorship, and just being open to hearing maybe perspectives that don't fit into the mental models we're creating.
00:07:53
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Keeping the pulse of what's happening on the ground. Thanks, Amanda.
Career Journey and Impact
00:07:59
Speaker
You've had a very impressive journey. You've worked with so many different pioneering organizations in this space.
00:08:06
Speaker
Can you tell us more about this journey? How did you get here? Did you have any milestones or turning points? Maybe do you have any stories or anecdotes that you you'd like to share? There have been quite a few twists and turns on my journey.
00:08:21
Speaker
And I actually think there's a poem that really resonated with me about halfway through my early career, let's call it. And i i can actually pull it up. It's called The Way It Is by William Stafford.
00:08:36
Speaker
There's a thread you follow. It goes among things that change, but it doesn't change. People wonder about what you are pursuing. You have to explain about the thread, but it is hard for others to see.
00:08:49
Speaker
While you hold it, you can't get lost. Tragedies happen, people get hurt or die, and you suffer and get old. Nothing you do can stop times unfolding. You don't ever let go of the thread.
00:09:00
Speaker
And I think for me, finding the thread in all of the different twists and turns has been one of the joys of my professional career so far. Because when I was studying undergrad, I was studying literature.
00:09:13
Speaker
i was an activist. I thought I would go into law to drive change in the world. I realized that actually there was a path to drive change through public policy.
00:09:24
Speaker
and econometrics and data analysis. And then at that time, we were seeing the little seeds when we met, sort of seeds of impact investing were or just gaining strength in London. They were taking hold and being able to adapt to where we were, to recognizing the opportunity that was what is the role that the private sector could play.
00:09:49
Speaker
And then thinking about at least my individual contribution to that took me from consulting and sort of research, think tank kind of work, to data and metrics, to investing, how do we allocate capital, to speaking and thought leadership and and workshop facilitation, right? How do we bring other people along on the journey?
00:10:13
Speaker
And in every twist and turn, whether it's been through a job change or new project that comes up, or a new event that we contribute to I think I've really relied on my intuition, actually.
00:10:28
Speaker
It hasn't been because I've known the thread. It's just at every moment, have I felt that I can contribute meaningfully to the task at hand? And if I can, then let's go for it. And if I can't, or there's other people who could contribute more meaningfully, then let's spotlight them. Let's bring them forward and make sure that that we're not taking up all the oxygen in the room, if that makes sense. Let's make sure that we're leaving space for things to grow and evolve.
00:10:54
Speaker
So I can go into any of those areas of of wandering, the thread of mine, but I think we all have it. And it's it's fun to see how it's taken shape. And also I'm so curious about where it will go.
00:11:05
Speaker
Thank you. And thank you for this unexpected, beautiful piece of poetry. It's very, very inspiring. And I'll go back to it.
00:11:15
Speaker
it's It's wonderful that you've described this journey in this very almost linear way, if I can say that. But you have been in quite pioneering organizations in your journey.
00:11:29
Speaker
And so I would love to hear from you a little bit more if you can double click on maybe each one of them and and how they contributed to something that's there as a brick or as a foundation for ah what the impact space is today? Happy to.
00:11:48
Speaker
It's a great question and a great way to think about it because I do think of it as some bricks, right, that we're placing along the way. The question is where to start, right? And there's so much that will have the foundation that came before sort of the first brick I was involved in. But I do think that the question of how the private sector contributes to impact was a big topic on everyone's minds after the financial crisis.
00:12:15
Speaker
And an open question of the best way to do that. And so i I think the work that I did at Volans with John Elkington was about stretching the art of what's possible.
00:12:29
Speaker
It was really about going into boardrooms, being the grit in the oyster. Like, have you thought about this? Your products are this, yes, but what could they be? That stretch thinking, that also stretched my thinking, right? About what is the role? What is possible?
00:12:44
Speaker
through existing products and services, but also through how you build your teams and and what kind of incentive to innovate exists in a way that is driving ah better world. So I think there is a role for stretching the art of what's... for designing the art of what's possible.
00:13:04
Speaker
And I do appreciate there are organizations out there doing it. I then felt the need to get a lot more operational and pragmatic about it. It's one thing to be blue sky thinker and like, look at what's possible and good luck versus saying, okay, what
Focus on Impact Measurement
00:13:19
Speaker
could that look like? And then how do we know if we're being successful?
00:13:23
Speaker
And I think the discipline that goes into finance is a really interesting way to think about it, right? I mean, you're allocating capital in a portfolio, So you are always tracking financial performance. You are always engaging with companies to sort of improve their performance.
00:13:41
Speaker
And so the question to me was, how could we be that diligent on impact? And I think that transition, ah that next brick for me was looking at the question of impact from an investor perspective, which happened at Bridges Fund Management in the UK.
00:13:55
Speaker
And from there, launching the impact management project, which was a consensus building effort to say, okay, if we are looking at impact from the perspective of an investor and in a rigorous way, what are the building blocks?
00:14:09
Speaker
but What are the shared fundamentals we can all agree on when we talk about impact? That was and remains no small task. I think we're still on a journey, but I do think it was an important moment to break through the noise, to break through this my impact is bigger than yours narrative that was happening and the sort of tagging and labeling and rather look to the ah root of what is the experience of a person that is impacted?
00:14:37
Speaker
What does it feel like? What does that mean? That's the unit of analysis, actually, that we are trading here. And that is the experience of a person, a community, the planet.
00:14:50
Speaker
And I think having that relatively kind of objective then way of trying to understand that experience has catapulted at least my work to say, let's try to stay as focused we can as we can on that and trying to understand impact as the experience of people and planet.
00:15:10
Speaker
So that was a really big building block for me. I think that from there, there's tiny little bricks that emerge. How do we influence policy and G7 and G20 forums?
00:15:21
Speaker
How do we bring more rigor and substance to the sustainable development goals? They're not just pretty colors. It's not just about rainbow washing. What sits behind those SDGs that we can track, that we can build organizations to drive that change?
00:15:37
Speaker
And... just because I could go on forever here on the different sort of blocks of my path, I think where I am now is a really exciting place to, at Sonen, take large pools of capital and really allocate it aligned with that impact we want to see.
00:15:57
Speaker
And know that when we are allocating across asset classes in a full portfolio, that we can we can look for these the impact that we're trying to create. We can ask questions and we can search for information.
00:16:11
Speaker
We can learn what's working and we can take risks. we can explore the relationship between impact and financial performance. So where I am now, and I think it's also an important moment, is to show what's possible in a very operational way, right? In a very pragmatic way of building portfolios and and understanding both the financial and impact performance that sits within them.
00:16:35
Speaker
So I don't know if those were the bricks or the building blocks that you were thinking I should mention, but for me, there are some key ones.
Impact Management Project
00:16:43
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I'd love to just go back for a second on your kind of contribution to the impact management project brought about, which is this fantastic and very simple, very, very beautiful consensus on how we define impact, especially from an investment perspective.
00:17:04
Speaker
I remember our conversations about, oh gosh, can we one day move away from impact being considered as an asset class and have finally moved away from endless debates about the definition? And the work that you carried out in the impact management project to create this consensus was was really hard, a gigantic task.
00:17:29
Speaker
So can you tell us more about that and how you managed to bring consensus? Because we need more consensus and more unity today across sectors, across geographies, across industries, and and perhaps some learnings that you had through that very exceptional process.
00:17:50
Speaker
Yeah, happy to reflect on that. And it's a good moment to reflect on that, I think. I already mentioned one of the first things that I think is really important for where we started that project, which was grounding the whole thing and the experience of people and planets. So park our intentions, park everything we think we believe, and really focus on the unit of analysis, which is the experience of people and planets. So that helped, right? We weren't trying to the someone's view of the world. We were just trying to bring in a new perspective.
00:18:21
Speaker
The second I also mentioned, which was listening, deeply listening. There was eight clear goal of not creating anything new for the sake of creating if anything new. In fact, what we did was listen to all of the different perspectives. What do we all think we mean when we talk about impact? We had huddles on different topics and we would just dig really deep. what What words are you using? Why are you using them? What do they mean to you?
00:18:45
Speaker
And I think from that listening perspective, we were able to just bubble up. What can we all agree on? What do we actually agree on here? There's going to be a lot of things and there were that we disagreed on.
00:18:57
Speaker
But what within everything we're saying is actually common. And we were just listening. We weren't making it up, right? We were hearing, we were summarizing, and we were feeding that back and building and building as we went. And I think the third part of it was making sure it was a public good.
00:19:12
Speaker
It was not about owning ah definition. It wasn't about trademarking the name of the framework so you could sell it on. It was truly a shared creative commons resource, a repository of knowledge resources, because everyone should feel capable of measuring and managing the impact of their work.
00:19:35
Speaker
It should not be centralized in any one place. This is a set of tools and a way of thinking that should be available to everyone. And of course, from there, if people want to specialize, if they want to build data platforms on the back of it, if they want integrate into the way they're working in a very unique way, that's wonderful, right?
00:19:54
Speaker
But let's give credit to the public good knowledge that led to that. And I think that allowed that true commitment to the Impact Management Project being that allowed a lot of institutions and egos to come together.
00:20:10
Speaker
without risking that they were going to lose that competitive advantage, but rather show that if we had this shared consensus, then the way you use it is what's going to shine.
00:20:20
Speaker
Not the fact that you, that we, that each of us know different parts of the knowledge, but rather how we apply it is where we're going to be driving ah moving forward. So that was, I think those are the three, at least, I mean, three of many, I think, ways that we started to make, to bring people together around this tricky topic.
00:20:39
Speaker
Yeah, and was a really groundbreaking way to start building on that brick. And the impact management platform is now the kind of successor to the impact management project and has done so much to create clarity and map everything that's out there on this topic and guide investors and organizations.
Current Work at Sonin
00:21:00
Speaker
on how to manage and measure their impact. You're today working at an impact investment firm. It's a quite different work. Can you tell us about that? But also if you're wearing different hats, so tell us about what does a typical day don't look like for you?
00:21:18
Speaker
Yeah, good question. I don't always get so lucky to kick off the day with a chat with Krisztina. This is a good day. And the work at Sonnen really multifaceted in ah in a beautiful way, right? So what we do is advise endowments, family offices, institutions on how to, um allocating their capital towards impact.
00:21:43
Speaker
So 100% towards impact. And we often do that through sort of outsourced chief investment officer role. And that means we are constantly looking for opportunities to invest capital. So we're doing diligence, we're looking at what is out there and driving social and environmental change globally.
00:22:03
Speaker
We are developing strategies for these clients about what they want to see in a portfolio and what success looks like, especially from an impact perspective where I sit.
00:22:14
Speaker
and And we're also building in our own way, knowledge and case studies. We just published another case study of the journey of ah of a foundation and how they've spent down their endowment to focus on community regeneration, right? And re restoration of trust and equity.
00:22:34
Speaker
And I think that being at that nexus of knowing what's out there, knowing what entrepreneurs and fund managers are doing to drive change, being in a position to sort of help allocators of capital find opportunities that fit their goals and fit their mission, um but also being able to share those stories to help build the wider space because that's what we're doing, right? We want to see more and more capital mobilized towards impact, but not just more capital. We want to see deeper change as well.
00:23:05
Speaker
And I think what's great about being at Sonin is my days are a mix of all of those things. It's making sure we have the right opportunities in sight, that we know what's happening in portfolios and that we're sharing our learnings as much as possible.
00:23:18
Speaker
um with the world. So those are my days from a Sonen perspective. And that that has been a great mix of all the things that I've done to date. I'm also, as you mentioned, on a board audit committee for the private infrastructure development group.
00:23:32
Speaker
That's a fascinating role because why am I on an audit committee? It's because there's a lot of impact data and an impact processes that's produced when you're investing in infrastructure projects In emerging markets, and the goal is to drive impact through private sector mobilization, right?
00:23:50
Speaker
And therefore, the audit committee has a view of both ah financials that are audited, but also the impact processes. How is data collected? Are those assurance and auditing processes strong?
00:24:01
Speaker
And I think that that's where we're headed, right? Is more of a a rigor and a diligence and governance role in impact data in the same way we've created those kind of structures for financial data.
00:24:16
Speaker
So for me, that is a different part of my days. It definitely gets in the weeds. And that's part of this. We have to get in the weeds and we have to look at whether and how governance structures are evolving and fit for purpose for impact to take hold.
00:24:30
Speaker
Absolutely. Governance is the the next frontier. We have so much more work to do ah to do a better job on on the questions of governance in our space and broadly speaking.
Being a Woman in Finance
00:24:41
Speaker
So, well, I want to ask you, how does it feel to be woman doing this job and having this journey? And maybe any, you know, reflections or tips for others It feels really good.
00:24:56
Speaker
I have felt deeply empowered on my journey. I have felt lifted by women like yourself, right? So peers that you meet along the some of my closest colleagues and I guess advocates in the work we do.
00:25:12
Speaker
have been other really strong women. I've also felt deep empowerment and support from men ah along the journey. I think balance teams are key.
00:25:23
Speaker
I think we need to just keep searching for for balance. And i do think there are some great examples at least in my career, of where you can ah feel truly empowered in a room with all men. And and that feels as good as it was a room of all women. do you know what I mean? I think there's this, such a conversation about being a woman right now. And for me, I've only felt...
00:25:48
Speaker
that's surrounded by the right people in any room, like being a woman in this space, just being grounded in the work you're doing, the results you're creating and the clear way of thinking that should and can be rewarded no matter what. And I think that that's what I felt.
00:26:02
Speaker
And I feel lucky to be able to see that. Yeah, that's wonderful. I want to double click on, you said examples. Do you want to share one or two? I'm trying to think how to do that without making anyone bashful.
00:26:15
Speaker
I can say early in my career, fresh out of my master's degree, there are very few places that you could have walked in and said, listen to me, right? i'm i may I'm young and full of ideas. It doesn't come across often particularly well.
00:26:31
Speaker
And I just got very lucky to join a team with John Elkington who truly believes in intergenerational thinking. It was just, we would together be the intergenerational team in a boardroom, right? And it would, there were questions directed to me as a young woman navigating the world that we're moving into and an older man who's navigating 50 years of trying to figure out what sustainability means and how it can be executed well.
00:27:05
Speaker
And I think it was just, that's a dream team right there. but so And with Charmi an Love as well as part of that, who was always there to show it was possible to rise up at every moment as a young woman. And we needed to sort of band together and and really show the rigor and execution potential, right, of of teams that were incorporating all of these different ages and dynamics.
00:27:30
Speaker
So I think the team at that time at Boland was just, that was a fun place to be, to really feel, to feel lifted up. That's a great example. And hopefully very inspiring to younger generations as well, who coming up into this professional world with all of that imagination and energy and willingness to change things.
Networking and Relationships
00:27:51
Speaker
Yeah. Any, any, maybe any tips, any, you know, advice that you have for others? I've been reflecting on one thing lately a lot because it's just sort of popped up in the past year is I think you can feel like events and gatherings and sort of networking drinks with people in your field as as noise. And it is, it's a lot. It takes a lot of energy.
00:28:13
Speaker
It can feel distracting. You're supposed to finish your work, but there's maybe a cool event being run on a topic you like, and maybe you should show up. And I feel like that was a lot of my 20s, just going to random events every night. We were there together in London, traveling to conferences. And could I, after each event, sort of say, oh, it's great, I went because of X reason? Absolutely not.
00:28:36
Speaker
But I just kept doing it. And if I look back now, I have... deep friendships as a result. The consistency of showing up, of getting to know people as people, not just the roles they have at the moment, has meant true friendship.
00:28:51
Speaker
ah With you, with Antonio Miguel, who runs Maze in Portugal, I now... i mean, we all met in like pubs in London early in our career, but now we're shaping entire industries, right, from where we've all moved. And I think that that has been so special that it's turned into friendships.
00:29:10
Speaker
it's also turned into, it shaped my career. I met Raul, who is the founder of Sonen. When he actually came to facilitate, I facilitated a panel on how One family foundation was using the Impact Management Project and then met year after year at different events, especially the FLII Latin America.
00:29:32
Speaker
And every year, just getting to know getting to know him better, getting to know the team better. And now it just feels like when you then take a move and moving into an organization... It feels like you're joining friends, right? You're joining, you know, that the nature of the people.
00:29:47
Speaker
And that leads to sort of, I think, really cool work. So I guess i'll I'll just share that all of those events and the kind of chatting and the things that happen after work are, I believe, as important and maybe sometimes more important than the day job.
00:30:01
Speaker
Yeah, networking seems pretty daunting at the beginning, but it's actually incredibly powerful. Completely agree with that. So I would love to hear ah now, what does success look like for you today or tomorrow? where My assessment is that we're often too humble to promote ourselves.
00:30:23
Speaker
And this is your chance. What are the achievements that you're most proud of? What are the things that you feel that is has moved the needle? I mean, we've touched on some of them, but maybe they there are different things that you want to mention.
00:30:39
Speaker
And yeah, what does success for look like?
Defining Success in Impact
00:30:43
Speaker
Maybe do you have a kind of theory of change or something like that? My thread has never been that clear moving forward by my theory of change.
00:30:55
Speaker
That question of where do you want to be in five years? I'm always like, I have no idea. So I'm probably not going to give the best answer there. i am also do believe our value and our contribution changes over time.
00:31:07
Speaker
And as I said, I'm very intuitive about that. Where does it feel like I can make the most change or have the most influence you know right now? And also... and i also as you say, struggle to take credit for a lot of the things that came before because I always believe that it's, I mean, it always has been for me a team effort. a ah This field is by nature collaborative and co-creative and and can almost co-conspiratorial in a way that we all are trying to move this forward.
00:31:37
Speaker
That's what it makes it work. I will say that one thing that has been part of the thread is I seem to have ah skill in making boring stuff like impact data or metrics kind of interesting or exciting. And I don't know why. It's not something I've crafted. But I did a TED Talk early in my career about why I do what I do.
00:32:01
Speaker
i run loads of workshops. I facilitate. I speak. And I actually... think that it helps the world. I get a lot of feedback like, thank you for making this less scary, less dull, more accessible to me, whether it's someone who's just entering the field or someone who's been around for a while, but just cannot figure out the right way to engage in a conversation because it feels like it's just experts talking at us all the time.
00:32:32
Speaker
So I think... The long answer to your very simple question is i want to keep finding forums and ways to make sure that everyone has the ability to allocate their capital towards impact, measure and manage the impact of their activities if they want to.
00:32:53
Speaker
And also even in really under-resourced environments, feel empowered to share their stories about what's working and what's not. Because I I just think that's making sure people feel they have a voice in this is better than just a lot of the same people acting as broken records about what the world needs. And if I can be a part of creating that space, then i think I will have been successful in this work.
Accessibility in Impact Investment
00:33:19
Speaker
Absolutely. Making people feel welcome and help them join the journey. Because if we're talking or if we keep talking in jargon and vocabulary and expert language that people don't understand, it's not where where we should be going.
00:33:35
Speaker
so And I completely agree you have such a skill to make the most geeky stuff so exciting. and create a FOMO around it. It's really impressive and you want to contribute and be part of it.
00:33:49
Speaker
So yeah, please keep at it. I guess one of the things as well is you have, and we all have this true passion for a changing things, but it can take a lot of time and
Balancing Work and Life
00:34:01
Speaker
energy.
00:34:01
Speaker
You have different hats, you're doing many things, you travel. What helps you or helps you become your best self? How do do you manage your work-life balance? Where do you find support?
00:34:15
Speaker
Great question. I think I definitely didn't know the answer to that early in my career. i didn't burn out, but I definitely made a career move at one point and was like, I just need to go to the gym more, right? This is just not balanced, especially with a lot of the trouble that but it sometimes entails.
00:34:33
Speaker
i think I think surrounding yourself with good friends and colleagues ah is critical. And like I said, that's the networking events. like As long as you leave any of those events or conferences with more energy than you came with, then I think that's a form of balance and success, just making sure you have the right peers and circles around you.
00:34:52
Speaker
I think we all have to learn our our boundaries on in what we do. Where do I have to turn off the news? Where do I have to dive deeper into an issue that I'm working on?
00:35:04
Speaker
related to impact that is deeply uncomfortable, right? And so sometimes you have to double click. And sometimes I think it's okay to just step away and go sailing, you know, so I think it's the act of disconnecting is really important, as much as it is to sort of double click every day.
00:35:20
Speaker
Because yeah, these topics can get heavy. And I think that's probably all my advice. i don't I'm not a very like meditate every day or i don't I'm not a very sort of by design, create pauses kind of person. But I do think on balance...
00:35:38
Speaker
I always look at every situation as am I gaining energy by doing this or am I, or is it sapping my energy? And any role I'm in, as long as I'm regenerating my own excitement about what we're doing, then it's a good place for me to be.
00:35:52
Speaker
But as soon as it starts pulling and sucking, there's other places that we can do what we do. Now, you said something really interesting about double clicking on issues that make you uncomfortable.
Courage in Impact Work
00:36:05
Speaker
I think that this is a really important aspect of our work that we really need to be courageous and go further into some of these things that we might not want to think about.
00:36:17
Speaker
Can you, I mean, I imagine that you are saying this because you have maybe something, an example or something on your mind when you're saying that. Can you perhaps elaborate a bit more? There's so many examples, but I mean, i I think the biggest issue with the space where we're talking about and working in is that impact is positive and negative.
00:36:35
Speaker
It's not always just positive. And we need to be managing negative impacts as well as driving positive impacts every day. That means being open to understanding what are the negatives that could be happening and how do we manage that?
00:36:48
Speaker
There's so many examples. i can't even, I'm trying to think which one's best. With Pidge, when you're building infrastructure and really hard to reach, really conflict-ridden regions, there's risk. in that. You're building infrastructure that people need.
00:37:00
Speaker
People have to build that infrastructure. and so we can look at all the positive benefits. We also have to think about how do we create a safe workplace in tough regions. And even when we're looking at any portfolio across asset classes of where we're trying to make a theory of change, as you referred to earlier, a positive theory of change, you have to always think, what are them?
00:37:22
Speaker
Where could this go wrong? And where could this not go wrong for my portfolio? That's not what I'm saying. It's just actually a key part of the impact management project consensus was impact risk. Are we truly thinking about the impact risk here, the risk to people and planet that this doesn't go as expected?
00:37:36
Speaker
If you, I always say when I'm doing trainings on this and when I think about it, if you just think about impact risk all the time, you will hide under a rock and do nothing. because it is just overwhelming how many risks you can identify. This is not sort of as an encouragement for inaction in any way, but we have to be very aware in everything we're doing of the risks that we're taking.
00:37:59
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. absolutely Thanks. What are you reading that you would recommend? Fiction, nonfiction, anything? I love this question. i am a fiction fiend. I love reading novels.
00:38:10
Speaker
And i think it's an amazing way to connect with characters and stories that we don't get the chance to in the day to day. I love Japanese novels. Right now I'm reading one about mathematics and politics, but again, in a novel form.
00:38:29
Speaker
So I think novels are the way to go. Awesome. Okay, that's really cool. Please send me the name of your Japanese book. I'll put in in the episode notes. Okay, so I had a really great time. Thank you so much.
00:38:43
Speaker
Do you have any final thoughts or advice to fellow changemakers or maybe any call to action or ask of the listeners?
00:38:53
Speaker
Just don't overthink. Don't overthink your thread. Just to go back to the the story, I think it's really unclear. how things are going to take shape for everyone. And as like linear as my story might have come across, did not feel like that at the time.
00:39:08
Speaker
So just get started somewhere. i think this is an amazing way that you're leading Krisztina to sort of give behind the scenes insights into what this looks like, feels like.
00:39:19
Speaker
But I just don't overthink it and it feels too overwhelming. hope that it won't mean you're going to step away or lean away from contributing to impact, but that you realize that it's just about finding the right way to do so.
00:39:31
Speaker
Absolutely. And will quote someone that i really someone whose work I really like, Donella Meadows, who's the godmother of system change.
00:39:43
Speaker
And she said it's about embracing and dancing with the system. So I relate. We love a good dance party. Yes, absolutely.
00:39:54
Speaker
Well, Amanda, thank you so much for your time today. and was a really great conversation. We could probably go on for another hour or a day, but you have to get on with your day.
00:40:07
Speaker
so it was really wonderful to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much. Thank you, Krisztina
00:40:17
Speaker
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00:40:28
Speaker
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00:40:39
Speaker
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