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E02 - Naina Subberwal Batra, CEO of AVPN
92 Plays2 months ago
In this episode of Women Changing Finance, host Krisztina Tora welcomes Naina S. Batra, CEO of AVPN, the largest regional social investment network that aims to increase the flow of financial, human and intellectual capital for impact. Naina discusses the evolving landscape of impact investing in Asia, highlighting the growth of ESG investments and the increasing interest of sovereign funds in the sector. She shares inspiring stories of impactful businesses that have successfully attracted capital and emphasizes the importance of networks in driving collaboration and change. Tune in to discover how Naina and AVPN are making significant strides in promoting impact investing and supporting the next generation of changemakers in Asia.
Please review the episode, share your feedback and subscribe to the podcast!
You can also:
- Visit our website: womenchangingfinance.org
- Follow Naina on LinkedIn
- Read Naina's full bio
To go further, here are some of the references mentioned by Naina during the episode:
- AVPN https://avpn.asia/
- LeapFrog https://leapfroginvest.com/
- Ankur Capital https://www.ankurcapital.com/
- Kaizen Capital https://www.kaizen-capital.net/
- Temasek https://temasek.com.sg/
- Khazanah Nasional Berhad https://www.khazanah.com.my/
- Mubadala Investment Company https://www.mubadala.com/
- Cropin https://www.cropin.com/
- Khushi Baby https://www.khushibaby.org/
- LifeSpring Hospital https://lifespring.in/
- Husk Power Systems https://huskpowersystems.com/
- From Blueprint to Scale https://acumen.org/app/uploads/2024/03/Acumen-From-Blueprint-to-Scale-report.pdf
- Beyond the Pioneer https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/global/Documents/Financial-Services/dttl-monitor-Beyond-the-Pioneer-2014-04.pdf
- Reimagining Philanthropy in the Global South https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/reimagining-philanthropy-in-the-global-south/892D6D9A346C1670F2B28B95F6198607
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Guest
00:00:05
Speaker
Hi, welcome to the podcast Women Changing Finance, where you will discover amazing women from all around the world who are making finance become a force for good.
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to the podcast, Women Changing Finance. I'm Krisztina Tora, and I'm welcoming today Naina SubberwalBatra, the CEO and Chairwoman of AVPN, a regional founders network that aims to increase the flow of financial, human and intellectual capital for impact.
00:00:38
Speaker
She's based out of Singapore. I met Naina around 10 years ago when I was running the Global Social Entrepreneurship Network. We share many goals and we both believe in the power of networks and collective action to drive change. I have always been impressed by her drive and her ability to scale work and organization and impact to become the go-to platform in Asia for impact.
00:01:01
Speaker
I'm therefore really delighted to have Naina on the show today.
Developments in Asian Impact Ecosystem
00:01:05
Speaker
So Naina, before we go further and get a better understanding of your journey and your work, it would be really great for the audience to have a sense of what's happening in the impact ecosystem in Asia. Can you please paint us a picture about any trends? What's happening in the the ecosystem? What's specific about the ecosystem in Asia?
00:01:25
Speaker
Thanks, Krisztina, and really a pleasure to talk to you on this podcast. Thank you so much for inviting me. The feeling of admiration is mutual. I think you have always stuck to impact, so great to be on this journey with you. With regards to the impact ecosystem in Asia, I think Asia is at this point an extremely exciting place.
00:01:46
Speaker
not in the least because so much capital is being generated in Asia. I think we are reading everywhere and we hear many, many times that very soon the biggest number of billionaires in the world will be concentrated in Asia. The fastest growing rate of billionaires is also Asia. We also know that in Asia, the biggest transfer of wealth from the older generation to the next generation will be happening as we speak over the next three to five years.
00:02:15
Speaker
So given that as a background, it is really interesting to see, you know, what is the sort of landscape for impact investing or investing for impact in in Asia. So I'll start by saying that firstly, the sector as a whole has grown. So the amount of capital that is flowing with an impact lens has definitely increased in the 10 plus years that I have been part of AVPN and running AVPN. As you said in your introduction, we are a network of funders and our 600 plus members actually deploy capital along what I like to call a continuum. So there's philanthropic capital and there's investment capital. And just to give your listeners a sense, about 40% of our members deploy only grants.
00:03:04
Speaker
19% do equity investment, about 18% do a blend of both. so that sort of the you know If you look at that as a snapshot of how capital currently is deployed with an impact lens, that gives you a helpful idea ah sort of numbers in terms of which people are looking at impact investing. Now, what has really grown in the last five years, I would say,
00:03:30
Speaker
is investing with a sustainability lens.
Challenges and Success Stories in Asian Impact Investing
00:03:33
Speaker
So really looking at ESG investment, they have grown through the roof, partly because there is a lot more awareness that if you invest with an ESG lens over the longer term, your rate of returns is better. A second very equally important reason for the growth of ESG investment is regulatory pressure. So what we have found across several countries in Asia are Regulatory authorities have made it mandatory for corporates to actually list their ESG metrics, making it easier for investors to find investable opportunities with clearly defined ESG metrics.
00:04:13
Speaker
Now, as far as impact investment is concerned, it's been interesting because partly for a very long time, the investment organizations were located in Asia, predominantly South Asia and increasingly Southeast Asia, but the capital did not come from Asia. The capital continued to come from the US and Europe.
00:04:36
Speaker
What we are finding now is that there is local capital that is actually being deployed towards impact investing opportunities. where I think the opportunity lies is that this is still a very small fraction. What happens right now is that investors, especially individual investors, not institutions, but if you're looking at family offices, if you're looking at high net worth individuals, they still see impact investing as a small percentage of their portfolio, which is very niche. They unfortunately view impact investments as you know sort of
00:05:15
Speaker
commensurate with discounted returns. So impact funds, therefore, are also reluctant to call themselves impact funds because they feel that investors write them off. And thirdly, as yet, we're not seeing as much policy regulatory or institutional support for impact investments in the region. So I think there is a huge opportunity to grow, to attract more investor capital. But so far,
00:05:44
Speaker
We, I would say most of the focus is on investable opportunities coming out of the region rather than strong capital coming out of the region. Great. That paints really a good picture also of the progress that has been happening in the past decade, let's say. Perhaps for the audience, could you give an example or a couple of examples of these impactful businesses that have successfully attracted capital that have grown in Asia? And perhaps also if you have seen or if you are seeing interesting developments on the investor side, perhaps the how the more, let's say, traditional investors are looking at
00:06:24
Speaker
at impact and and creating interesting vehicles or allocating some of their portfolios to impact. So if I look at, for instance, I'll give you two examples. right The first one is LeapFrog, which is based out of Australia, but a large number of its investments actually happen across Asia.
00:06:44
Speaker
Leapfrog has grown enormously, and we've seen it as a very successful impact fund that really has scaled. It's done well. It's had good returns. It's been able to report, so we can call it a success story. If we look at a couple of others, Ankur out of India, run by two women, since this is a Women in Finance podcast, started by women. They're on their third fund.
00:07:11
Speaker
They are now, you know, what I understand from co-founder, managing partner, Ritu Verma, they are attracting more local capital. From being exclusively funded by DFI's and institutions coming out of the U.S. and Europe, they are now being a little bit more successful pull in attracting domestic capital in India.
00:07:34
Speaker
If I look at Kaizen, another impact fund impact organization also now on its fourth or fifth fund have sort of expanded beyond their initial um core interest area of education to move towards looking at ah climate and looking at moving beyond that initial geography of just South Asia to Southeast Asia and then now also to Africa.
00:08:01
Speaker
So, all these are success stories of impact organizations that have started in India or in Southeast Asia and you know have grown to become more global players, more regional players, looking at you know what they are doing. Very, very interesting.
00:08:19
Speaker
If I look at investors, I think one of the significant changes in Asia is actually the interest of sovereign funds and their interest to actually become investors in impact.
Role of Sovereign Funds in Impact Investing
00:08:31
Speaker
So if you look at Temasek, for instance, $500 million into leapfrog. If you look at Khazana, which is the sovereign wealth fund of Malaysia, they have launched their own impact fund of a billion Malaysian ringgit.
00:08:45
Speaker
So, it's a very interesting trend. Even with our latest conference in Abu Dhabi, we had Mubadala present for our Impact Investing Day, which is probably the richest so sovereign fund right now in the world, talking about how they were looking at making most of their investments through an impact lens.
00:09:04
Speaker
Now, I feel sovereigns will be a game changer if they are serious about putting their money in impact. I think they will play the role for impact investing, what pension funds play the role as far as ESG investing was done concerned. So, if we can have more and more sovereign funds really asking for impact, then we're going to find as well, you know, more ah sort of asset managers, more financial advisors, also really looking at impact very seriously in their portfolios. So that's what I'm finding in Asia, sovereign funds becoming more and more interested in looking at impact, but also impact funds going to that third, fourth, fifth fund scaling in terms of quantum, but also scaling in terms of geography.
00:09:51
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. and And the trend about sovereign funds is major also in other regions of the world. And given the fact that they can invest for a much longer term than others, they are a really great ally, I would say, for for building the the impact ecosystem and and supporting the creation of impact.
00:10:10
Speaker
Perhaps, what about impact businesses? Who are you you know your favorites? If I look at impact businesses, I think there are a few that have done well. But in Asia, unfortunately, there are none that have really scaled. There are a few. You're seeing them in terms of regenerative agriculture. so For instance, Cropin, which looks at forecasting.
00:10:37
Speaker
Climate forecasting for farmers is something that has gone to market very seriously, besides having early impact funds invest, have now been able to attract commercial capital. Khushi Baby is another one that is in the healthcare business using health tech.
00:10:53
Speaker
What I'm finding with impact businesses, Krisztina, what does well has a tech packing. Funders, investors in general tend to support tech businesses, edu-tech, spin-tech, health-tech, much faster than they do the regular brick-and-mortar businesses. So if you're looking at something like LiveSpring,
00:11:14
Speaker
chain of hospitals that Acumen had funded very, very early on. If you look at Husk Power initially didn't do well, come back. Shell Foundation was one of the earlier venture philanthropy funders, in fact, into Husk Power, now doing really, really well.
00:11:32
Speaker
The other one which is doing well across Southeast Asia is alternative energy or just energy transition businesses, so microgrids or mini-grids. Those businesses are doing really, really well. But otherwise, I'm finding distance learning, last-mile healthcare care using technology, anything which has tech or a potential of using AI seems to catch the investors' fancy very, very quickly.
00:12:01
Speaker
Thanks. Yeah, that's so it's both an opportunity but also probably a challenge for the more regular businesses because they can they should also be able to access the right kind of capital to grow.
00:12:15
Speaker
it's so well is it It's fascinating and we can go on about what's happening and and the different examples, but I would also love to hear more about but you. You as a person, you as a CEO, you have done a lot for the ecosystem and the the sector. Can you tell us about your journey? so You also had other roles before becoming the CEO of AVPN, whether any milestones or turning points in your journey, how did you get here?
Naina's Personal Journey and Leadership at AVPN
00:12:45
Speaker
Okay, it was a really long journey to get here, but i my first engagement with social businesses actually happened when I worked for Monitor. Before that, you know I had a career in the for-profit space, like a lot of your listeners probably. I started my career as a banker, started my career with Citibank, worked with consulting firms like KPMG, ran an art gallery for a little bit.
00:13:08
Speaker
And then i ended up working for monitor the strategy consulting firm that is now monitor the life. And i work for monitor in their inclusive market business which was their mission driven business and before that i didn't really have an idea. That you could have businesses that actually had an impact sort of an impact objective that was really built into their business model.
00:13:31
Speaker
and My first couple of years at Monitor, we we did something where we looked at 200 social businesses. and These were businesses that were for-profit businesses that really looked at providing either goods and services or employment opportunities to the base of the pyramid in India.
00:13:51
Speaker
and we We identified seven that we thought with the right amount of both knowledge, strategic health, as well as capital could scale up. That came out in our report from blueprint to scale. and It was really interesting because we looked at these ah these models and really looked. No, it was emerging models, emerging markets, I think is what it was called.
00:14:16
Speaker
and It was really interesting because you know there was a whole market out there that no one was really talking to. Whether you looked at agricultural businesses where families raised chickens and productivity went up because the women in the house actually slept with the chickens in their bed because the chickens felt more secure and therefore delivered more eggs. You had an amazing low cost education model that employed out of work housewives in slums to really deliver education that was broken up into bite-sized pieces. So really looking at paraskilling education. So we looked at some of these amazing models. And that's when I was like, wow, this is really fascinating. And how do you actually have businesses that do well, but also more importantly, do good? So I worked for Monitor for five years, did a lot of things, looked at
00:15:09
Speaker
Social investment looked at this whole you know what we talked about so many times and specially when you were at GSEN and also at UnLtd. This whole valley of death what happens when philanthropic funding dies out and how do you actually help the entrepreneur move from a you know a place where they are dependent.
00:15:28
Speaker
on grants to really looking at getting more commercial capital and yet getting patient commercial capital. So at that point, you know, I happened to move for personal reasons to Singapore from Mumbai and I got headhunted to lead this network. Now, you know, I'd worked for five years and monitor and I was completely hooked on to this impact bug. And I wasn't sure what leading a network would do. And how would it actually help me be impactful?
00:15:55
Speaker
It didn't also help that I had no idea what venture philanthropy was. I'd never heard of it. I had no clue. And I was like, oh, okay. So my idea at that point, um Krisztina, was that I would do this for two years. I would understand the landscape and then I would go to do more impactful things. And 11 years on, I'm still the CEO of AVPN f or better or for or for worse. So it's been an interesting journey.
00:16:18
Speaker
Thanks, Naina. And I think that that's a really good sign, actually, that the work that you're doing is where you feel you can be the most impactful. Do you have any, I don't know, stories or anecdotes that you'd like to share a about this journey that kind of illustrates a bit the, how to say, the nitty gritty or the kind of inspirations that you can have during this work?
00:16:43
Speaker
So you know I think hugh you and I have both been part of networks for a very long time. I think networks are incredibly undervalued because people take them for granted. They already feel, oh, what is a network going to do? The difference or the main point of a network is the intentionality behind it. Networks work because we are intentional about bringing people together.
00:17:05
Speaker
And when you bring people together, magic happens. And that's where the inspiration or the validation of impact actually comes through. Because when people get together with the intention of impact or with the intention of meeting a potential future partner, their minds and then you know they're much more open to discussing potential collaborations and potential impact. And I think for me, that is what has been really always the aha moment.
00:17:35
Speaker
A lot of times people come to an AVPN conference and they meet people from the same country and they're like, Oh my God, you know, I've always wanted to meet you and we just never ended up meeting because life gets in the way. You're busy, but you know, you made the time to come to this conference. So therefore you make the time to meet. And when you meet, you kind of have an openness to listen to what the other person is doing. And you're like, Oh, wow, I did not realize. And because you did not realize you're much more open then to think, okay, let's try and take this further.
00:18:03
Speaker
and let's partner and let's collaborate together. and I think in some ways, networks are altruistic about that, that we bring people together and then we let them go ahead and do great things without saying, okay, now you need to attribute it to us or you need to be parted you know we need to be part of that journey. Our job is done. We are that platform that brings people together and hopefully we keep growing that platform so that more and more different people find each other.
00:18:29
Speaker
I think to me that's been really interesting. The second thing which has been, I think, very emotional and much more mind-opening is that I feel that given that our network is in Asia, given that Asia came very late to this game of impact and really talking about it, whether it was philanthropic impact or investing for impact, I think a lot of this is very new. and Because it's new, people don't come with their minds already made up. They are coming with almost a hunger to learn, and there is a little bit of a humility about it. you know In this conference that I had just now, we had some delegates who came from Denmark, and they said when they were in Denmark, you know they were talking about collaboration and partnership and how people should come together to do things and share ideas
00:19:19
Speaker
And they said you know we thought that was all very new we had come up with it. And we came to this conference and we were like oh my god that's what these people are doing and they're really in the process of doing that and to me that is where it's been such an amazing journey. I think I said at this conference our first conference had two hundred people in a small university auditorium.
00:19:40
Speaker
We have 1,500 people coming together, all buzzing with energy and with excitement, and really happy to be there. And I think that is something that we don't celebrate. Yes, it's a great celebration if we've unlocked you know a million dollars or a billion dollars. Nowadays, no one talks less than a billion. But really getting seven people together in a row and them getting inspired and going out to do something that they wouldn't have done if they hadn't met is equally inspiring. and Sometimes they don't celebrate those things. and To me, that's the beauty of what we do. and it's just It changes things. It changes things maybe not tomorrow, maybe not day after, but it does change things because literally, you know people come together, they see the good in each other, they see the possibilities of change.
00:20:29
Speaker
and Really, I can tell you that we've built movements and these are movements that are not going to go back. They are the ones that are going to be building the tomorrow that we want to leave behind. and It wouldn't have happened if they hadn't come together. so to me Those are the stories that I feel the happiest about, so the most joyous about, and it's wonderful to see different worlds colliding together and yet coming together and yet sharing and yet working. So we have
00:21:02
Speaker
our partner in Japan Masa Uo who works with GSG he works with the Avpn the same thing happens with Romy Cahyadi in indonesia works with us works with the Avpn works with GSG so it's never and it should never be it shouldn't be about competing we need more and more networks like us we need more people to come together because We are all in a hurry and we should be doing more of this. you know We should be as inclusive as possible rather than saying, oh, this is only for a select few. So i mean those are the things that you know I feel really proud of as we've built this network and you know we've grown it to this
00:21:41
Speaker
amazing thing, which I still don't believe is is really there, but it's a good thing.
Importance of Intentional Networks
00:21:47
Speaker
Thanks, Naina. And that's really inspiring. And you mentioned two things, which I really agree with is networks. I mean, probably people don't realize how much work it takes.
00:21:59
Speaker
to create the intention, to create the ability for people to come and trust each other and be open and willing to collaborate and then take it forward. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of invisible work, a lot of relationship building. And, well, you have a monk among other people myself as a true believer in that. It's really important to do that and to keep doing that. And then the second is what you mentioned about attribution.
00:22:28
Speaker
it doesn't matter It doesn't matter. What matters is that it happens and it kind of allows for the magic to transform the relationship into something else. And that's something that we should advocate more about. Thank you for that, perhaps.
00:22:44
Speaker
to bring things to ah another level of of exchange, can you tell the audience more about what does your job look like in a day-to-day? Because it's difficult to understand sometimes what networks are, can you tell us more about what it is? Okay, that's a tough question, Krisztina because honestly, AVPM is a very different network to a lot of other networks, partly because I think Asia didn't really have too many institutional platforms when we were formed. And because we were only focused on Asia, we were able to invest
00:23:20
Speaker
Significantly in growing across Asia so at this point there is no other pan Asian platform that is present in so many different countries because again we were the first person to be there in order to kind of attract people to come to the network, we tried to fulfill various different types of needs. So the connection part, which is what most networks do and do well, we started by doing that. We then felt we were in a place where we could share insights.
00:23:53
Speaker
So we started collecting knowledge, insights, sharing about what's happening in different countries. So countries that were you know sort of just starting out could learn from others. And it's the other thing, right? If someone is in Indonesia, they probably can learn more from somebody in India than they can from the US. They find much less in common with the US than they do with with India.
00:24:16
Speaker
so If you share among Asian countries, it's much more easier for them to sort of see that, so we started doing that. Then we started offering opportunities to actually move the capital because people would get excited and then they'd be like, but I don't know what to do, so we had a deal-share platform. and Then we moved to doing a pooled fund, and we had pooled funds.
00:24:36
Speaker
And then we tried talking about, okay, we need to help with policy. So we tried doing work with policy, and so on and so forth. So my daily job is really looking across all of this. And as CEO, what I've realized now is that I am, unfortunately, fortunately, the very public face of AVPN. So a lot of the times,
00:24:56
Speaker
I'm really talking about pretty much everything that we do, which is good and bad because so I kind of need to know examples on top of my head. What are we doing? What did we do? so For instance, we just launched, with the support of the Monetary Authority of Singapore, an impact platform where you know financial advisors wealth managers can find opportunities that they can take back to their clients. So the idea was that Singapore has so many family offices, has so much wealth, but yet that wealth is really kind of in some senses guarded by these wealth advisors and these custodians. So how do you get them to really look at impact opportunities and how do you actually share with them? So like being able to be on top of all of this is really important. But I think more than anything else,
00:25:46
Speaker
I think why AVPN has grown so much is that I spend a lot of my time talking to different people and and spending more time or trying to spend more time listening because I still get a lot of new ideas and AVPN becomes something new, I think, every year.
00:26:04
Speaker
and Part of it is really listening to what other people are doing and saying, hey, can we collaborate with you? Hey, can we do this together? And that's what I think most of my job is. When I joined in 2013, Krisztina we were four people. We are 100 people right now. So it's that job has grown massively, but I also spend a lot of too much of my time traveling.
00:26:27
Speaker
But again, Asia is a massive continent. So it's tough to do it sitting in Singapore, which is way down in the southeast corner. So I do spend a lot of time on the road. Thanks. And definitely the growth has been spectacular. So congratulations for that. Another question about kind of how you feel.
Women in Finance: Challenges and Support
00:26:50
Speaker
How does it feel to be a woman doing this job? Any tips for others? How do you feel about it?
00:26:57
Speaker
I was waiting for you to ask me that question. ah See, I don't feel anything about being a woman, but I think people treat us a little bit differently. I think there are a lot of stereotypes that are associated with being a woman detail.
00:27:15
Speaker
And especially if you're a woman from Asia, from a developing country, there are many, many other things which are associated with you. I have had a lot of time, if I say something that is considered to be a little bit, I don't know, um for want of a better word, aggressive, then I'm accused of being, you know, oh, you're not partnering. Or if you don't quite agree to something that your male counterpart tells you, oh, you're not collaborative.
00:27:45
Speaker
And if some guy did the same thing, it would not be taken in that same spirit. I think women are expected still, even at our level, to oftentimes be seen and not heard. And I think that that's just unfair. I do believe that a large part of the success of AVPN being where it is today is because it's led by a woman. and It's not because it's led by me, but I think because it's led by a woman and we have so many women. I think 71 percent of my team is women. and I feel genuinely, Krisztina, women multitask better. When we are given flexibility, we feel so grateful for the flexibility that we're given, that we work extra hard to prove that we are
00:28:30
Speaker
so Able to carry out our jobs responsibly, we try and do much more. So I think that's been something which has been really interesting. I have tried, sometimes successfully, sometimes not so much, to be there for other women. I feel very strongly that it's important that we have a sisterhood. We don't in our sector or in any sector.
00:28:54
Speaker
women find it difficult to build a network for themselves because we find it very difficult to ask for things. And it's only other women who understand that. It takes women very long to, even women in my own organization, very long to come in and ask for something themselves, you know, whether it's for a promotion, whether it's for extra salary, whereas the guys who work in my organization don't have that problem at all. I have seen that firsthand.
00:29:19
Speaker
you know within three months they're ready for a promotion and they're ready to ask for more money but i feel it's important especially in the impact space which is. You know hard work it's really hard work it takes a long time for us to see results in what we're doing to really build a supportive network.
00:29:38
Speaker
It doesn't matter that even if you're a CEO or you're leading some very difficult work, you still have to be a mom, a wife, a daughter. a sister It doesn't matter what culture you're from. At the end of the day, all of those other responsibilities are still, somehow they still come to you.
00:29:56
Speaker
And so it it is managing that as well. It's also trying to sort of manage your work environment in, I would say, a balanced fashion. I was going to say not emotionally, but I think some emotions are important. And I think women bring thoughts and emotions to the workplace, which I feel are actually helpful, but it is sort of important to be in some senses balanced and not dispassionate, but objective when you're making those calls. And I think the spotlight is much more on women to see what kind of discussions or decisions they make, even internally and definitely externally. It's something that I've seen very, very much.
00:30:42
Speaker
Thanks. I resonate with that. You talk about balance, what has or what is helping you be your best self, balancing all of the different roles that you have in your life.
00:30:54
Speaker
So I think, firstly, a really supportive family. I think my husband, my children have always been very proud of what I'm doing, so that definitely helps. Very, very supportive. But more important than my husband and my children, actually, my colleagues. I don't like speaking in public. I find it hard. I'm very good at it.
00:31:15
Speaker
But i am very noble speaker from inside. and I'll tell you something, every time I get up to speak in front of large groups, I feel every single one of my team is sending me positive energy saying that they've got my back.
00:31:28
Speaker
and I really feel that. and It's because they have my back that I'm able to stand tall and able to represent AVPN and stand up. and Without that, I wouldn't be able to do that. so Really, it's each and every one of my colleagues who has the utmost faith that I'm the one that is going to lead them and they believe in my leadership. so Yeah, that is beautiful. That's really beautiful. And it's also, I guess, a big achievement to have that. So talking about achievements and, yeah, perhaps past and and fruit future, what are the things that you are, I guess, most
Future Vision and Optimism in Impact Investing
00:32:05
Speaker
proud of? I think you talked about some of them, but if you want to highlight any. And the second question is,
00:32:12
Speaker
If you you know no limits, what is your big moonshot ambition? like Why would you like to achieve if you had any resources in the world? So I think, you know, my biggest achievement is really kind of together with the rest of AVPN, really building this, this organization. And Krisztina, you will understand and appreciate this more than other people because of your own tenure in GSEN. I mean, we never had any support for AVPN. There was never one funder or one godfather or one, you know, we had our founder Doug Miller in the initial years, but that was very,
00:32:50
Speaker
It was most as much as he could do, but given the scale and where we are right now, I think that has been such a huge achievement by sort of literally building the aeroplane as we were flying it, taking risks, failing fast, trying to be as entrepreneurial as we could, just taking these bets without really focusing so much on what if.
00:33:13
Speaker
and know just pushing ahead and and really having the faith that we would do it. I think that is something I'm incredibly proud of. Even if nothing more happens tomorrow, we've created something that will live on and I feel do a lot of good across Asia. So I think AVPN is the one thing that I am so, so proud of.
00:33:33
Speaker
In terms of the moonshot thing, I think, like you, I think it's the one thing that everyone who is working in our space, especially in terms of networks, would like to do is really build a seamless collaboration because what we are trying to do is really the same thing. All of us are trying to do the really the same thing.
00:33:53
Speaker
And sometimes I think our motives get a little bit confused. And we also get a little bit confused as to why we are there. I think if we really come together, we can sort of exert more influence on those with capital that they need to deploy it today. They need to step out of their comfort zone. They need to sort of push for change because we are running out of time. We just have one planet.
00:34:23
Speaker
we have one future that we're going to be leaving our children. There isn't that much. So I think in terms of the big bet, what I would really like is really to think about how do we, as global networks, as regional networks, how do we come together to really push the urgent deployment of capital towards impact? Right now, whatever capital is being deployed,
00:34:50
Speaker
is too little, too slow. So how do we change that to faster, larger, more patient, more supportive? And how do we make that happen? And I feel that the only way we can make that happen is by working much more closely and more intentionally together.
00:35:12
Speaker
OK, yes, let's do it. Brilliant. OK, so we are towards the the end, reaching the end of this interview. I have quick questions for you. What's keeping you optimistic? The fact that there are many more people joining our movements.
00:35:28
Speaker
I have newer and newer people coming to my conferences, joining the network, lots of excitement on social media. So I feel our tribe is growing. Who or what is inspiring you? Oh, I think.
00:35:42
Speaker
What inspires me every day is really, it's something which has pushed me for a long time. I come from a continent, Krisztina, where women struggle to be born, they struggle to go to school, they struggle to stay in school, they struggle to have a choice what they do. The fact that I didn't have to struggle to do any of these things means that I don't have any other alternative. I must try and change it. It can't not change. you know The status quo of impact, it can't change.
00:36:12
Speaker
We are we're going to the moon, we're going here, we're landing on the dark side of the moon, and yet children are struggling to get food. People are living in deplorable situations, while at the same time, millions of dollars are being spent on a wedding. How do we change that? And if we can't change that, then we haven't made any progress as humanity. So that is what pushes me, inspires me, challenges me every single day.
00:36:38
Speaker
Beautiful. Are you reading anything that you would recommend? Good question. I hope I was reading something, but no, i have I'm actually what I'm just trying to get a hold of right now. And it's sitting on my desk. So I will show it to you is this reimagining philanthropy in the global South. So at this point, I am really interested from analysis to action. It's interesting because it has a lot of chapters from different people, including myself.
00:37:07
Speaker
It's amazing because it's really about the global south and it's really well written. It's really talking about different models and how do we change the dialogue. and Again, I've talked about this with you. How do we make some of the dialogue come from our part of the world? so That's what I'm reading right now.
00:37:26
Speaker
Yes, more diverse voices to come into the the conversation. Yes, absolutely. And not just the conversation, actually, the leadership. Yes. And changing the power dynamics as well, being a bit more equal in how we look at things. OK, really exciting. And while we have reached now the the end of the interview, do you have any calls to action to the audience or any advice or specific ask of the listeners?
00:37:55
Speaker
So I think if you're listening to this podcast, you're obviously interested in impact. And my call to action would be that get off that chair, get off that stool, and go out and get involved. Because it is going to give you the biggest high that you've ever had in your life by being part of communities like these, like ours, and really going out and doing something. Be the change. Be the change that you want to see. Drive that change. And you can only do that by getting involved.
00:38:24
Speaker
Yes, be the change that you want to see in this world. Right. Thank you, Naina. Thank you so much for your time today. I really enjoyed our conversation. It's wonderful to reconnect. Thank you also for making the time right after your enormous conference, so super successful conference. I hope that you have time to recover from that. ah but Yes.
00:38:48
Speaker
My son is graduating from university next week, so I'm going on leave for two weeks. And Krisztina, I told you this before. If you ever ask me for something, I will never say no to you. So I share a special bond with you. And whenever you ask me for anything, believe me, like my team tells me, I have your back. So anything you need, always feel free to ask. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining today, Naina.
00:39:16
Speaker
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