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E12 - Andrea Webster, Ambassador of the World Benchmarking Alliance
51 Plays21 days ago
In this episode, Krisztina speaks with Andrea Webster, Head of Financial System Transformation at the World Benchmarking Alliance (WBA). With 25 years of experience in finance, Andrea brings a rare insider’s perspective to reshaping the rules of the game. At WBA, Andrea leads the effort to assess and rank 400 of the world’s most influential financial institutions — including banks, pension funds, asset managers, insurers and development banks — based on how they perform across sustainability issues like climate, nature, human rights, governance, and ethics. The goal? To build transparency, alignment, and accountability across the system, and to push financial institutions to improve through peer pressure. Andrea explains why African financial institutions score highest on social impact, how regulation drives progress on human rights, and what bold leadership looks like in finance today. She also reflects on her own unconventional journey, from leaving school at 16 to becoming a global change agent. It’s an honest, grounded, and hopeful conversation about how finance can evolve, thanks to the power of data, partnerships, and purpose to drive that change.
Please review the episode, share your feedback and subscribe to the podcast!
You can also:
- Visit our website: womenchangingfinance.org
- Read Andrea's full bio
- Follow Andrea on LinkedIn
To go further here are some of the references mentioned during the episode:
- WBA Financial System Benchmark https://www.worldbenchmarkingalliance.org/publication/financial-system/
- Tove Jansson, The Summer Book https://tovejansson.com/book/summer-book/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
00:00:05
Speaker
Hi! Welcome to the podcast Women Changing Finance, where you will discover amazing women from all around the world who are making finance become a force for good.
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to the podcast Women Changing Finance. I'm Krisztina Tora and I'm welcoming today Andrea Webster, who has 25 years of experience working in the financial sector. She's currently head of Financial System Transformation at the World Benchmarking Alliance, which develops benchmarks assessing the world's most influential companies, ranking and measuring them on their contributions to the SDGs.
00:00:43
Speaker
I met Andrea a few years ago through work, and I have been very impressed by how she is harnessing her wealth of expertise in the financial sector to create systemic change. And I'm really energized by her passion for these issues.
00:00:57
Speaker
I'm really thrilled to have you on the show today, Andrea. So welcome. And let's
WBA's Role in Financial Transformation
00:01:02
Speaker
start. You're leading the financial system transformation at the World Benchmarking Alliance. What is this?
00:01:08
Speaker
Can you tell us about the World Benchmarking Alliance, how it works, what is the theory of change, and then maybe explain what exactly is this financial system transformation within there?
00:01:20
Speaker
Sure, absolutely. Can I just start by saying it is an absolute pleasure to be here. I'm honored to be invited to this. But Krisztina, is always such a pleasure to be talking to you. i We met, yeah as you mentioned, three years ago, but we've always sparked off each other and share that same passion. And you're one of the people I've had the privilege to meet through my job and always thoroughly enjoyed it.
00:01:39
Speaker
So, well, Benchmarking Alliance, as you've mentioned, the benchmarking of the top 2000 companies, Together, they account for about a third of global GDP and employ over 100 million people.
00:01:50
Speaker
Within there, there are 400 financial institutions and they together represent over 200 million of assets under management. So they're powerful. They're fantastic enablers. And for me, that's the positive of this in the finance system.
00:02:04
Speaker
What we do is we assess those 400 institutions. So there are banks, asset owners, so pension funds and sovereign wealth funds and the development institutions, also asset managers. I call them the good, the bad and the ugly. All of them are in there, including private equity and then the insurers.
00:02:19
Speaker
And the idea is, is that we are assessing those institutions across core sustainability issues, so governance, climate, nature, human rights and business ethics,
00:02:30
Speaker
And the idea is that we can see what the alignment is across the full finance investment value chain, because everybody that works in this space talks about the need for alignment. So that's a really crucial piece there of why all these different actors are in the benchmark.
00:02:44
Speaker
Really interestingly as as well is to try and break down the silos between those different actors and And also the cross-sharing of learning. I come from the finance sector and I know the different traits between them, but there is an overlap and they do interact with each other.
00:03:01
Speaker
And the idea is to is to pull that out.
Collaboration and Strategy at WBA
00:03:04
Speaker
In terms of how we approach that, the environment that we're at the moment, I'm sure we're going to get into that, makes it challenging. But for me, on this strategy, it's very much collaborative.
00:03:13
Speaker
There's a huge amount of intellectual firepower and knowledge and really smart people in finance that want to drive change, but they are constrained within the system around them. As a nonprofit, we can ask, we can push, we can conjole ways that perhaps those with inside the system can't.
00:03:30
Speaker
So I'm looking for where gravity is. I want to scale gravity and push gravity and accelerate that and really champion those leaders. I say to the team and to those around me, oh, Switzerland, we're neutral.
00:03:42
Speaker
We want to be collaborative. And that is how we're going to push forward. course, it's difficult. It would have fixed if it wasn't. But the our theory of change is effectively, if we can capture the attention of those that are leading and the behavior of the big guys at the top of the system, they, through their changing behavior, will create the ripple effect throughout the whole of the finance system.
00:04:03
Speaker
We do this through learning. So identifying where there are best practices and and sharing those. The peer-to-peer pressure, because there is a competitive, almost herd mentality within finance, and there receip and then through norm setting, and that's through the multilateral system.
00:04:18
Speaker
So different pathways, depending on the issue in the section of finance, in the macro environment as well. Fantastic. Thank you. Can you break it down? like How you engage with those institutions that you have benchmarked?
00:04:32
Speaker
How do you get the data or the information from them? that you need to do the benchmark. And then as a result, what does the benchmark look like and how do you use it to create that peer to peer pressure or like the ability to, for them to learn from each other and improve?
Transparency and Assessment Methodology at WBA
00:04:50
Speaker
Well, the core obviously of what we do, and what we're calling for is transparency. So all our assessments are based on publicly disclosed information. We have a team of fantastic researchers who go through annual accounts, sustainability reports, everything that's on the public website to score and and create an assessment of those institutions.
00:05:09
Speaker
So we want to do as much of the legwork as possible, recognizing that those people that sit in the reporting teams of financial institutions are already buried. So we are empathetic to that.
00:05:21
Speaker
That said, we don't want to just throw out an assessment and judge them. We do send that assessment back to financial institutions, and give them the opportunity to comment on it, to point out where we've missed something.
00:05:33
Speaker
There's effectively a consultation process. We want to make sure that we're fair, but we also want to make sure that the integrity of that process is really key because we work with other civil society organizations and policy and regulators as well as finance.
00:05:48
Speaker
So everybody has to have confidence in that process. So it's public disclosures. And then in terms of how we work, there's when the results come out, they are ranked. There's ranking within with of the 400.
00:06:01
Speaker
Something that I'm particularly passionate about and I've advocated for since the beginning is that a blunt one to 400 is meaningless. So we absolutely have to put the results in context of how we look at a private equity firm in the US versus a bank in Africa.
00:06:17
Speaker
So what we then want to do is overlay and create knowledge from those assessments. And so there's various reports and pieces of information that we take what we see in the assessments, but also the engagement that we have across the different stakeholders. So we don't just focus on data. We have related... We've cultivated relationships with financial institutions and different stakeholders so that we can overlay that data.
00:06:43
Speaker
But what does this mean?
Engagement with Policymakers
00:06:45
Speaker
Where is the pathway forward? What are the conversations? Who is actually leading? Where is their pathway forward? Where is there a blockage? And we share that with regulators and policymakers to try and bring meaning to it.
00:06:56
Speaker
That's start the high level objective. When you, in terms of those financial institutions, WBA is six years old now. And we have worked really hard to foster collaborative relationships with finance. So they trust us.
00:07:11
Speaker
We've got deteriorating macro, to put it mildly at the moment. But there are some financial institutions that are nervous about dealing with civil society. I'm wary of it. And we've tried really hard to show that we are collaborative.
00:07:27
Speaker
For me personally, as somebody who's come from the finance sector and stepped across into a nonprofit, there is always this kind of eye-opening moment when they realize I speak their language.
00:07:38
Speaker
And that brings the guard down. And then that helps us deepen relationships even further. Yeah, that's so important to be able to speak the same language. Can you maybe give a few examples? I mean, you mentioned something about it's not the same to work with or assess a pension fund in the US versus a bank in Africa.
00:07:58
Speaker
Can you kind of dive deeper into the differences and maybe give some examples. Probably the best example I can give right now is we sit in Europe and we and the priority is climate within the sustainability bubble, depending on different
Regional Focus and Human Rights Legislation Impact
00:08:14
Speaker
stakeholders group.
00:08:14
Speaker
There's various opinions of that, but it's climate. Now, when I look at the results from our benchmark, like European institutions generally lead on climate because it's been on the agenda for longer and it's a more mature and the the skill set is there.
00:08:28
Speaker
However, the African institutions in the benchmark actually score the strongest on our social indicators. So, and for me, that is a perfect example of the different backdrop that they're operating in.
00:08:42
Speaker
When you think about the Johannesburg Stock Exchange and the reporting framework that came out, and that lens is a social lens through that voluntary reporting framework. And The fact that the social issues are so fundamental in Africa without that safety net, that is a higher priority on those institutions than climate.
00:09:01
Speaker
But you can't criticize African institutions for scoring lower on climate versus European when it's a different context. and what we have to do is lord them for what they're doing on the social side.
00:09:14
Speaker
So different regions have different priorities. That's fascinating. And what kind of good practices have you seen in like the social dimension?
00:09:25
Speaker
think we've got 29 indicators on social, cutting all the way from obviously due to um human rights due diligence, working practices, all the way through to the ethical business practices.
00:09:37
Speaker
like going have to I'm going to say we have a report coming out in April, which is going to highlight those. Where are the leading practices? where the lead Where you've seen modern slavery legislation become mandatory in those regions, that's forced financial institutions in there to look at the human rights element within their supply chains more strongly.
00:10:02
Speaker
And that is a very clear indicator versus those institutions that headquartered in regions where there isn't mandatory modern slavery laws.
00:10:13
Speaker
ah So that is a clear link for me in terms of leading practices. It obviously builds skill and capacity within those institutions. And also, interestingly, I think it sits quite closely to anti-money laundering regulations, if you think on human trafficking and those.
00:10:29
Speaker
That sits closer to the DNA within many financial institutions. And so that's where we see some of the highest scores. The sections, obviously, just transition is really crucial. And that's still a nascent. It's still not in the language of finance at all.
00:10:45
Speaker
But you can see that coming more into the narrative, obviously. Very interesting. Yeah. Actually, one other one that springs to mind, and this is controversial, so I'm going to be slightly controversial here.
00:10:56
Speaker
So the Bank of America, I've got to name them here. actually scored relatively high in the index this year compared to previously. They could do so much more, but they are moving in a difficult environment.
00:11:08
Speaker
But what pushes them up the score is their work on inclusive finance. This is the push on, obviously, Black Lives Matter and also the crisis of affordable housing.
00:11:20
Speaker
You can actually see that being articulated through some of the products on an inclusive finance side. So there's some innovation going on there. And that surprised me.
Highlighting Inclusive Finance Efforts
00:11:29
Speaker
And it's a great connection between the struggles of real people and how financial institutions can do better as an organization.
00:11:36
Speaker
And you mentioned also something just before on the connection between importance of regulation and what financial institutions do. How do you work with regulators or policymakers in in general?
00:11:50
Speaker
What is the collaboration there? As a nonprofit, there is a limit to what that you can do and where you can engage. So we typically move across the multilateral and norm-setting space because there we reach a greater audience.
00:12:01
Speaker
And so we look for specific work streams that are relevant. So for example, the finance for development work stream that's going on at the moment is particularly pertinent around the norm-setting and the role of private finance.
00:12:13
Speaker
You might have people that are trying to make decisions and they know inherently, but they don't have the evidence. So we provide evidence. or equally where barro there is a need for regulation, but they want best practices as examples so they can create a level playing field.
00:12:29
Speaker
So sharing our leading practices that we find in our benchmarks is really helpful as well. There's a lot that we do in terms of how we craft our wording based on, because we're not standard setter.
00:12:41
Speaker
We look at everything else that exists in there the principles and the standards that already exist and kind of create, I use the word a north star, as we ask, but a south star, a guiding star. so So some of their are their insight on our scoring is helpful for those regulators that are setting their own benchmarks.
00:12:58
Speaker
Within Europe, we have ah we work closely with European regulators as well. Whether there are polarizing opinions on European like red legislation, but you know let's face it, Europe does lead the way on it. I call it the sandbox.
00:13:12
Speaker
The sandbox, Europe lead the way. What works stays and other ah countries around the world pick it up. Asia is a brilliant example where it watches what happens in Europe and what works and then takes it and adapts it.
00:13:25
Speaker
So it does lead the way. So we do share a lot of our insight and our data with the in the EU as
Connecting Local and Global Finance Initiatives
00:13:31
Speaker
well. Whenever a pertinent consultation comes up, then we push it out where we can.
00:13:35
Speaker
Great. The World Benchmarking Alliance is an alliance, right? So how do you work with all the allies that you have? Like, for example, you mentioned briefly, nonprofit organizations or or serious society organizations that have something to say.
00:13:53
Speaker
How do you engage with them? That varies by different stakeholder groups and alliances. One thing that we do recognize is that when you're focused on system level change, you can't do it one-on-one.
00:14:04
Speaker
We have quite a strong convening power as well. We try and do what we can to bring different stakeholders together and to create a framework of consensus that they can talk around.
00:14:14
Speaker
It's kind of like it's an anchor. I think we have nearly 500 allies actually now. We work with different allies across different systems and different jurisdictions. We do have financial institutions who are allies.
00:14:27
Speaker
They're quite a powerful lever with the companies that we assess in what we call our real world benchmarks. We do a lot with civil society as well. And I think really importantly, we use this phrase, you know how do you connect the local to the global?
00:14:40
Speaker
When you want to drive system level change and in something like finance, and you're dealing with big institutions, so much of the discussion sits at a global level in the centers of power.
00:14:50
Speaker
But how does that connect to the real world? That has to come down to grassroots and locally what's happening on the ground and bring those into it.
00:15:02
Speaker
We have an annual allies assembly. and it rotates across continents. So the last last year, it was in Asia and Bangkok. And that yeah was phenomenally successful in terms of connecting with local and regional civil society organizations that are working on the ground that we can go in, we bring them in, taking the work that we do on a global level with global institutions, and also kind of the sharing of expertise. It's amazing.
00:15:27
Speaker
of the things that always surprises me, especially at the COP, is that We talk about what's happening in sustainability space. And it's really obvious to us because we are absorbed in it every single day.
00:15:39
Speaker
has its own lexicon, which we all know. But it's amazing, actually, how many people out and as you spread away from the the kind of the centers of power who aren't familiar with their mechanisms exist, the initiatives that are out there for money, the processes that are being discussed, the people that working to try and drive change. And so those moments of connecting in is really powerful part of our work.
00:16:02
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. Connecting the places of power with the real world. Can you maybe, you know, reflect on the current trends and how they are influencing the work that you're doing for the better, ah for the worse?
00:16:17
Speaker
If you resist change, you're dead. So you have to evolve. And we are in a moment of rapid evolutionary change and from every level, but within the non non-profit space.
00:16:28
Speaker
And yeah the crunch is there are two when you step outside of the sustainability bubble, there are too many people who are alienated from it. This applies to finance, but I think also from sustainability, there but it's become disconnected from too many people who actually everyone's working really hard to benefit.
00:16:47
Speaker
yeah That's the the shift in narrative. We're all living in and working with that at the moment and the changing backdrop to it. So where we are at the moment, obviously, the significant conversations that are happening happened since November.
00:17:03
Speaker
Obviously, and we all knew Trump was going to pull US out of the Paris Agreement. There's this massive feeling of deja vu. He's burning and slashing much deeper in what's happened with USA. The ripple effect on that is phenomenal.
00:17:15
Speaker
It really is. And I think we're just, I still think we're at the tip of the iceberg on this. So this is about, okay, the relationships that nonprofit has with finance and business, which has always for there's been a touch of adversarial to it, kind of pushing, pushing. I actually think it's pulling them together like this.
00:17:36
Speaker
And people are waking up and realizing that there is ah greater need for collaboration. What I would love to see is much more cross-fertilization of people coming from business into nonprofit and more people from nonprofit going into business.
00:17:49
Speaker
And then where we'll find much more clarity on the narrative that works for both groups. Yeah, I completely adhere to that objective.
Career Milestones and Advisory Roles
00:18:00
Speaker
You're also senior advisor to a platform called Sustain Finance. Can you tell us more about what you do there and how it complements your work at WBA?
00:18:13
Speaker
When you're working a non-profit is in it is incredibly intense. So being able to step out of it is really important. For me, sustained finance, it's there's a touch of personal to it as well. To be honest, I lived in Asia for about 15 years on and off and worked there 20. I used to move between Europe and Asia. So I have a real passion for emerging markets.
00:18:36
Speaker
When I left Hong Kong, I went to go and live in Turkey for two months. I love the energy and the passion and the madness of emerging markets. So the think tank focuses on that.
00:18:46
Speaker
The founders of it is the ex-president of CFA Institute, who I'd known for decades. He's a charismatic man, and he comes from finance. and knows what force of good it can be.
00:18:57
Speaker
And also co-founder, Kubrick Oldermere, who's... she used to work in a hedge fund in New York and then back in Istanbul with a family business. And they just have a passion for it. So it allows me to step into other places.
00:19:10
Speaker
But they're also really passionate on emerging markets. And that's a ah massive strategy within the finance system benchmark, because as I've mentioned it many times, it's where net zero and sustainability is going to be won or lost, and it is the future.
00:19:23
Speaker
And for me, it's a really interesting one because going from finance to nonprofit, it was my COVID epiphany. I thought I'd end up doing something philanthropic in a private bank, and I've ended up in the in the crazy sustained finance space.
00:19:36
Speaker
Fantastic. Actually, that's a great bridge to my next question. Tell us about your journey. I mean, it's quite a unique journey. So what exactly were the steps, the milestones, the turning points for you to be here today?
00:19:52
Speaker
I'm a little bit of an anomaly, Christina. But I also think that I'm a product of the power of the finance system. I worked in a Chinese family office during COVID as a very nice gentleman who caught me when my world imploded and wanted to do well and do good. And that really resonated with me with where I was before that.
00:20:12
Speaker
But he smiled to me and said, Andrea, how did a village girl like you end up in an international financial center? At the time, was like, oh, I don't see myself like that. But he was true.
00:20:22
Speaker
and it is the power the finance system. So we have to remember it lifts people as well as not. So those that take an interest into it, you're not it's not something you're born into an inevitable path. I'm going to be honest. i left school at 16.
00:20:34
Speaker
I'm old enough that you didn't have to go to college or university. And I went to go and work in a bank. And then I went to go work in a life as insurance company and another life insurance company. I studied professionally.
00:20:45
Speaker
And it's a section, this the finance system rewards those who are curious and energetic and can move with it.
00:20:56
Speaker
So a lot of people that misunderstand finance is this kind of old school dogma. It's just it's made up of so many different people. I went from a life insurance company designing product and different markets.
00:21:08
Speaker
Then I went to go work in Hong Kong, working in hedge fund space. I wanted an adventure. And if anybody wants an adventure, finance is the industry to do it in. So I've been through hedge funds, um different strategies there, through the financial crisis, and then in with a Swiss asset manager. And that probably sparked... I always had a philanthropic pulse.
00:21:28
Speaker
I did some pro bono work with a an advisory called Global Philanthropic. And that was probably 15 years ago, looking at how philanthropists can both invest and do well, looking at a ranking system with London School of Economics.
00:21:41
Speaker
So even before wb existed, that inkling was in me. And then working with some fabulous gentlemen at a Swiss asset manager who saw the tide of what's happening with ESG and moving into the but clean energy space and all the the how you translate that into different investment markets. So I've evolved alongside what's happened with sustainability and finance.
00:22:06
Speaker
So I feel like when I have this role ah on the head of the financial system transformation, the reality of it is I've walked the walk in terms of how finance moves.
00:22:18
Speaker
And that visibility across high level across the system is what's needed when you're looking at system level change. That was a very long taught story told short. and No, it's perfect. It's perfect.
00:22:29
Speaker
And you were saying something about COVID being a turning point for you.
Impact of COVID-19 on Career Path
00:22:33
Speaker
i was in Hong Kong for two years and the borders closed. used to travel a huge amount for work. And all of a sudden I found I had this time.
00:22:40
Speaker
What am going do with it? My son and I were in Hong Kong with a closed border. We didn't have lockdown in Hong Kong, actually. I should admit it, but yeah that we couldn't travel. But I had time to stop and think.
00:22:51
Speaker
So I decided to do a master's in philanthropy, like you do. Thinking, what am going to do? I need to think about yeah where I can make a difference. And as I started selling after the two years, I got to the sustainable development goals and my brain went pop because that is the perfect overlap with a career in finance.
00:23:10
Speaker
All the socio-economic, political factors but get When you're analyzing investment opportunities in finance, overlay with the SDGs, I got to impact investing and went, this is where I can make a difference. And I always thought I would give back when I retired.
00:23:27
Speaker
and I realized actually I could do far more if I do this when I work. ah For the finance experience and studying philanthropy, the overlap is in a nonprofit space. My thesis was on the role of institutional investors in funding and a really important part of the relationship, how asset owners manage their relationship with of mandate with asset managers and how that gives them agency to influence asset. And there's a having seen it and experienced it hands-on, you know that there is a discrepancy between the reporting versus actually how you manage your relationship.
00:24:06
Speaker
And there were a lot of fun managers I had access to were really gracious. And that does inform and fuel my work at WBA as well. Gosh, I haven't spoken about that for a while. Thank you for asking. And that, I mean, I just want to double click on what you just mentioned about the relationship between asset owners and asset managers.
00:24:23
Speaker
That's a really important relationship. So can you perhaps reflect on what are the challenges there and how we might able to influence those relationships.
00:24:34
Speaker
And also i will add another question, which is a question I know you care deeply about is how we influence the asset owners in the first place to do the right thing.
00:24:44
Speaker
And I'm thinking specifically about the larger ones, like the pension funds or sovereign wealth funds and the very large asset owners that have so much potential impact if they kind of come closer or commit to sustainability and impact.
00:25:02
Speaker
different approaches are needed for different sections of finance. And that's one of the beauties of this benchmark and why we're passionate about it, because we can pull that out. And every time we come out and we're sharing knowledge, we want everybody to understand that different parts of the system have different roles to play.
00:25:19
Speaker
When you talk about asset owners as well, you have to identify those that can truly move in the sustainability space and what is your ask of them. So for example, like One of my passions, as I've mentioned, is emerging markets.
00:25:33
Speaker
The average portfolio allocation to emerging markets is like 4%. And in the UK, it's even 1%. So it's so low. So there's no point hammering on the door of UK pension funds going, you need to be investing more in these projects in emerging markets when there's ah and when we all know everybody the sustainability space knows there's regulations around it. And there's a whole I know that the UK government have just released a paper on it and they're trying to shift it. So the answer to that is to tackle it government and a regulatory level and then get business behind it so it's safe for them to move in.
00:26:08
Speaker
Where we're moving now is identifying actually which asset owners are already leading on it and getting them on the side to champion the peer-to-peer change.
00:26:20
Speaker
A great example, I think, are the Canadian pension funds. They have a dual mandate. which means they're investing for returns and they're investing for sustainability. And so how they move, it's a really fantastic model where they've got the latitude to move. So how do you engage and get and we want other pension funds to have that mandate? And I think there are different ways that you engage. Is it through the members where they're having a vote on what the mandate is or through the trustees?
Asset Owners' Influence on Sustainability
00:26:48
Speaker
So there's some technicalities here. I do also think when you're, again, from emerging markets, for me, it's some of those big sovereign wealth funds that sit in the emerging markets and engaging with them and recognizing the environment that they're working within.
00:27:03
Speaker
One of the really big issues that I saw it when I did my thesis and I see it now is, to and I know it from the inside because I've spent two decades engaging with people that are running mandates for institutional investors, it's career risk.
00:27:19
Speaker
So it's much easier for someone in a job to do what they've always done before. So you're pushing somebody but who we want them to think differently, how they set their mandate, how an asset owner sets the mandate, and how they build their strategy so that then when they are working with it asset managers, they are signaling to them what they can do.
00:27:40
Speaker
Best example that I saw in the marketplace was that one of the big Swiss banks decided this was probably, i don't know how, this was nearly 10 years ago now, I don't six.
00:27:51
Speaker
They agreed that one of the C-suites agreed that they were going to allocate 10% of their discretionary portfolio climate solutions. Now, that was bold.
00:28:02
Speaker
That needed ah leader who was thinking about their legacy and was doing things differently. Now, that asset owner, although they were a bank, but it was in their discretionary portfolio, making that choice created this huge signal to the market.
00:28:18
Speaker
You saw this scramble across the asset management. And then we've seen this plethora of climate solutions. We know what the fallout of this around greenwashing and labeling and everything else. But it has to start with somebody being bold.
00:28:29
Speaker
And so when you're driving system level will change, what I'm looking for is somebody in a senior position who can do something bold like that and bring others along with them. Makes total sense.
00:28:41
Speaker
And that's also, you know, one of the things we're trying to do is to find those decision makers that are the right ones and that are, in a way, the entrepreneurs of their organizations and at the same time, the decision makers.
00:28:55
Speaker
Yeah, the innovators, totally. but Don't bang your head against the wall. but the The secret on this is finding the so the conversation subject which they can engage on.
00:29:06
Speaker
Yes. I'm moving on to kind of a another kind of question, but still touching on on your your journey. to We often don't stop to reflect on on our achievements. So this is an opportunity for you to tell us about what your biggest achievements have been or maybe, you know, a future achievement that you want to build?
00:29:28
Speaker
I've learned from failure. but There was an einstein there's an Einstein quote there somewhere. I've been through so many different moments of change through the dot-com bubble. I worked in e-commerce on fun supermarkets and that you know through that big bubble that popped. I do think we're going through a popping yeah ESG bubble at the moment. i can and There's so many similarities to it.
00:29:50
Speaker
I've been through the financial crisis in ah hedge funds there and the rumors that there's a bank that's going to go down. Everybody, the rumors about it and then it happened. My biggest achievement, well, the biggest achievement on personal level is my son. Obviously, the old parents say that.
00:30:05
Speaker
He's a better person than I am and I'm proud of him. Also, just evolving through, I've been working a long time and I actually enjoy work. That's intellectually stimulating and just being curious and taking risks.
00:30:19
Speaker
taking risks and not sitting and just doing what you've always done. Worked with some phenomenal fund managers and learned so much from them. Had so much fun in the process as well.
00:30:30
Speaker
And one of the things I find interesting, because a lot of the fund managers that I've worked with, and they do have that social conscience. They work, they manage money for pension funds. The finance system does a huge amount to create a financial network. It isn't all just rape and pillage that you would be led to believe by some of the reports that you read that come out.
00:30:49
Speaker
So I think it's that evolution, Shepard, then obviously moving into sustainability. And sometimes you just have to close your eyes and take that leap of faith. And it's frightening, but fortune does favor the brave. It does.
Experiences as a Woman in Finance
00:31:02
Speaker
And you've had ah whole career in the financial industry. How does it feel as a woman? I got asked to do um a speech in Oxford two years ago on a career as a woman in finance. And it was really some self-reflection. When I first started working, I wasn't allowed to wear trousers.
00:31:23
Speaker
It was like, yeah, I'm 26 in my head. for yeah And the way you women were, when I think back through my, when I used to challenge, yeah I have been, I've been through the, you're just an office girl, you can't tell me what to do. i Everything that you can imagine, I've been you know in a product department, in a marketing department, and you know, that wheeled out, I was younger,
00:31:46
Speaker
So you i everything that you can imagine that people talk about women in finance, I've experienced. But I still love it as a system. And I'll be honest, the or each moment of lift in my career has come from a man.
00:32:00
Speaker
So my big point is championing the fact that there are amazing men in the finance system as well as women. It is hard. It is incredibly hard because people are inherently drawn to men, particularly in moments of crisis.
00:32:15
Speaker
And this is DNAed into us as human beings. So we're always on that back step. But I do, I've seen it change. I've seen it improve. Some of the initiatives, the 30% Club, some of the work that's been done and some leaders, what finance really was lacking was role models.
00:32:32
Speaker
I remember coming up through in my 30s and I couldn't see anybody out there that looked like me. And some of those that were leading, they were just they were so brutal.
00:32:44
Speaker
you know They almost had to morph into a man to succeed in those roles. And I'm thinking, kid know can I go there and still be true to who I am? That's shifted. That's quite controversial. I think what's really interesting as well, though, is looking back and seeing those that are following you.
00:33:02
Speaker
Whereas now, the young people in my team, they are phenomenal And I learned from them and I embrace it. So we must, we have to look back and see who's following us as well.
00:33:12
Speaker
I fear where we're at at the moment. This is controversial. The Me Too campaign was so important, so important, but it it swung too far.
00:33:24
Speaker
And I fear that a lot of what we are experiencing at the moment is a symptom of that Me Too going too far. I agree with all of it, but if change is too fast, it doesn't bring everybody on side with it.
00:33:40
Speaker
So I do feel like some of the good that has taken place is unwinding.
Personal Integrity and Professional Challenges
00:33:45
Speaker
Yeah. And unfortunately, unbuilt. And yeah, we're seeing regress in some aspects as well.
00:33:53
Speaker
Yeah. So you mentioned how do you remain true to yourself? So maybe, yeah, a question to you on that. What helped you be your best self, remain true to yourself?
00:34:05
Speaker
Or what helps you be your best self? Yeah, what helps me? It's hard sometimes. I'll be honest, you know, being a finance person in a non-profit space, is schizophrenic. That's for starters. but But I meet so many people that say, we need more like you.
00:34:20
Speaker
So hang in there. So that really galvanizes me and is really passionate about it because I do have a passion for the finance system yeah know and for and the role of business. what so One of the things that I've learned is is to pick your fights.
00:34:34
Speaker
That's really important. You don't have to win them all. And I think more people really need to take that on side and little bit more yielding, actually. When I was younger, I was really stubborn. And that stubbornness carried me through and that carried me through really tough moments.
00:34:48
Speaker
But just you keep going. And I think be kind. This is this is all a bit abstract here. when you As you get older in your career, you can have more clarity because you've got more spirits. I've got more years of lived life than many people around me.
00:35:04
Speaker
And I don't mean that condescendingly, but it just gives you a little touch more humility. And so know when you're going to share knowledge, but then let others speak out as well. I have a couple of principles that I hang on to is that you attack up and defend down. It's always that way. I want to sharpen those above me and keep them on their toes so they don't have hubris.
00:35:26
Speaker
But those that are around me, I will protect them like a tiger mother. For sure. That's really key. And just have faith in the universe.
00:35:37
Speaker
Yes, of course. Otherwise we wouldn't be here, right? Doing this kind of jobs. Yeah. Faith in the and universe and what it's bringing us, of course. Yeah.
00:35:47
Speaker
Actually, great bridge for some of the last questions that I have for you. It's like quick questions. What's keeping you optimistic?
Sources of Inspiration and Advice for Changemakers
00:35:56
Speaker
yeah How and the new generation coming through.
00:35:59
Speaker
They are so smart. they They are amazing. Who or what is inspiring you? My son inspires me. A lot of people in this space are inspired by their children. Yeah. What? and It's just, it's a beautiful life.
00:36:11
Speaker
I really love it. Do you have any reading that you would recommend to the audience? Or what are you reading at the moment? I'm reading Kili's song at the moment. and but because I'm quite philosophical.
00:36:24
Speaker
I don't read as much as I used to. I love reading. I've just read, this is The Summer Book by Tove Janssen. It is in incredibly famous in Scandinavia. I think it's like, it's a school read.
00:36:38
Speaker
This lady created the Moomins. Tove Janssen was a genius. She's a marvellous, beautiful, wise novel, which is also very funny by Philip is philip Pullman. So it It is the story of a dying grandmother and a child on an island.
00:36:51
Speaker
And ah there are so many lessons in it. It is joyful and easy to read. And I think everybody should read it. It's been 50 years in print. 50th anniversary edition. Yeah, people need to read this. The summer book.
00:37:04
Speaker
I'm definitely adding it to my list. Thank you so much. I like at the moment when we're sometimes the work that we do, we're swamped with so much negative news that I quite like reading things that are inspiring and joyful.
00:37:16
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Any final thoughts or advice for fellow changemakers or a specific ask of the listeners? I think be kind. This is a moment to be kind.
00:37:27
Speaker
Don't let the anger consume you and be kind and listen. That's really crucial. And we will get through this. We will. Absolutely. Andrea, it has been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show.
00:37:40
Speaker
Thank you so much for your time today. And yeah, I hope to see you in person very soon. Yeah, definitely. My absolute pleasure. Have a lovely weekend. Bye.
00:37:53
Speaker
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00:38:04
Speaker
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00:38:16
Speaker
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