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E06 - Nanako Kudo, Executive Director of the Japan Social Innovation and Investment Foundation (SIIF)

S1 E6 · Women Changing Finance

56 Plays18 days ago

Just a decade ago, impact investing was barely on Japan’s radar. Today, it’s a multi-trillion yen movement — thanks in part to the bold shift of Japan’s largest public pension fund, which signaled a new era for responsible investing. In this episode of Women Changing Finance, host Krisztina Tora speaks with Nanako Kudo, Executive Director of the Japan Social Innovation and Investment Foundation (SIIF), about Japan’s remarkable impact journey. Nanako shares how government, startups, big corporates, and even ordinary citizens are coming together to build a more inclusive, sustainable economy. We explore real-world stories — from AI-powered career services for vulnerable workers, to department stores driving the circular economy, to public equity funds that get everyday people invest in companies doing good. Nanako also reflects on her own path: from a childhood dream of working at the UN, to becoming a pioneer in Japan’s impact finance landscape. With wisdom, vision, and a deep belief in collective action, she reminds us that system change is never linear — and that joy can be found in the everyday moments of building something better.

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You can also:

Visit our website: womenchangingfinance.org
Follow Nanako on Linkedin

To go further here are some of the references mentioned during the episode:

Transcript

Introduction to 'Women Changing Finance'

00:00:05

Speaker

Hi, welcome to the podcast Women Changing Finance, where you will discover amazing women from all around the world who are making finance become a force for good.

00:00:21

Speaker

Welcome to the podcast Women Changing Finance.

Meet Nanako Kudo, Leader in Impact Investment

00:00:24

Speaker

I'm Krisztina Tora and I'm welcoming today Nanako Kudo, Executive Director and member of the Executive Committee of the Japan Social Impact Investment Foundation called SIF.

00:00:34

Speaker

She's a pioneer and an expert leader in impact investment in Japan. I met Nanako almost 10 years ago when impact investment was a relatively new topic in Japan and in the world.

00:00:44

Speaker

And when I traveled to Japan, she was kind enough to show me some of the best places to eat in Tokyo. And I discovered that we share a love for Unagi. For the past decade, Nanako has been instrumental in positioning Japan as one of the leading countries and by developing a strong ecosystem of impact investment to support organizations delivering social impact, including very large financial institutions, all the way ah to foundations and many other organizations.

00:01:14

Speaker

I'm therefore absolutely delighted to have you, Nanako, on the show today. And so before we go further and get a better understanding of your own journey, it would be really great if you could describe the landscape of impact investment in Japan, trends, evolutions, and what's specific about the impact ecosystem in general in Japan.

Early Impact Investing in Japan

00:01:35

Speaker

Sure. Thank you. Thank you for having me. As you mentioned, we met through the G8 task force on social impact investment starting from 2013. So i started involved in impact they around 2012.

00:01:55

Speaker

l And at the time, impact investment market in Japan was really small. It's almost like none of, there's nothing, there was nothing. And nobody was talking about impact investing at the time.

00:02:09

Speaker

so we are kind of very small group of people doing a small experiment. about venture philanthropy or so social finance or lending for the non-profit organizations, those kind of very early stage impact investment.

00:02:27

Speaker

But in 2013, as you mentioned, around the time we met, the UK started the task force on social impact investment under the G8 presidency.

00:02:38

Speaker

And that was the kind of huge momentum and opportunity for the Japanese government impact investment ecosystem. And we took the chance to join the task force and move the corporations, of the financial institutions and government.

00:02:58

Speaker

And for the first stage, we did a lot of networking and conferences and seminars just to let them know the concept of impact investing because nobody was aware of this new type of investment or new type of finance.

00:03:17

Speaker

So around 10 years ago, we started just initiative to raise understanding among the financial institutions and government.

00:03:29

Speaker

And after 10 years, it really grew. It became a very big market and it's becoming bigger and bigger right now, especially after 2015. think huge was GPIF.

00:03:43

Speaker

i think the the huge i then was gpi yeah signed up with UNPRI, Principal for Responsible Investment. And it was a kind of game changer for the financial institutions in Japan.

00:03:58

Speaker

And everyone started talking about ESG investment. And you know One step forward from the ESG investment, there was a kind of impact investment as a front line.

GPIF and Growth of ESG Investments

00:04:12

Speaker

Just for those who don't know, GPIF, if you can explain, it's one of the largest pension funds in the world and also in Japan. Yeah. It's the biggest pension fund, like public pension fund, and it's the largest institutional investor in the world.

00:04:27

Speaker

So it was really big thing. It's almost like universal owner. So all the financial institutions, asset managers are looking at GPIF.

00:04:37

Speaker

So it was really a big event. And after that, there was a huge momentum of ESG investment in Japan and aligned with that impact investment market.

00:04:49

Speaker

grew really rapid after that. So in the latest research we did, we have like 11 trillion yen in terms of the market size of impact investment.

00:05:04

Speaker

When we started our research or the the estimation of the market size in 2016, it was almost like 2 million or 3 million.

00:05:14

Speaker

It's very significant growth. Yeah, it's unbelievable. It's really huge gap. So I think the market is becoming bigger and

Rise of Impact Startups in Japan

00:05:25

Speaker

bigger. And now impact investing is is still really small market in terms of the all the financial sector in Japan.

00:05:34

Speaker

But it's becoming the kind of things major financial institutions consider and try as a part of ESG portfolio.

00:05:46

Speaker

And at the same time, we recently think that under the GSG Japan, we also started heavily engaged with startups, impact to startups. And there was Impact Startup Association was founded in 2008.

00:06:05

Speaker

and like two years ago. So it's becoming a big movement too. And also like big corporations started looking at sustainability impact as a way of achieving impact and financial or the business expansion at the same time.

00:06:25

Speaker

So recently we started talking about impact economy rather than impact investment economy. as GSG Global also rebranded themselves because investment is is just a kind of small part of all the economic system.

00:06:44

Speaker

And we need all the kind of factors and the pieces We need to move all the pieces, small of pieces to create an impact and sustainable economy. So, yeah, we started talking with startups, big corporations, and sometimes maybe consumers through the vehicle movement in Japan. And so that contributes to the impact economy ecosystem in Japan.

00:07:12

Speaker

That's a really interesting point that you're making that all of the different players in the economy are on the way to moving towards impact. Can you perhaps give a few examples, maybe of you mentioned startups, you mentioned corporates, you mentioned large institutions.

00:07:29

Speaker

Perhaps can you give ah an example of each of what they are doing concretely? Sure. Startups. So many startups. Yeah. It's difficult to choose, I know.

00:07:41

Speaker

Well, for example, there is this startup working on helping the the youth who have difficulties to make their career in a continuous way.

00:07:54

Speaker

Current career matching market, it's targeting to the higher level career the relatively higher salary.

00:08:05

Speaker

So those who are not in the list of high salary and low skill type of people, they tend to change their job many times because it's difficult for them to find a job which is really matching for their job.

00:08:22

Speaker

intention or skill or their way of life. But there are no kind of service for those type of people to really to give a consultation or mentoring or those kind of stuff too much.

00:08:38

Speaker

the job for those people because it's really difficult to make a profitable business model to match those business or to be an agent for the people who have not high salary.

00:08:54

Speaker

So this startup is using the AI to assess the kind of fit for each person.

00:09:04

Speaker

So if putting the information about their interview or their background or their expectations and their special programming system or AI system is programmed in a way that can match the right job or the but better job for those people.

00:09:26

Speaker

Because using this AI system, it actually diminished the cost of matching so that this startup can kind of it's make it possible to give the personalized and automated mentoring or the consultation program for those people who are not in a higher career.

00:09:52

Speaker

Does it make sense? Yeah, it makes a lot of sense, actually, because, yeah, careers are much less linear today than there were 10 years or 20 years ago. And it's ah it's a very helpful approach to help people who have yeah less opportunities, perhaps, to get more opportunities and more chances to succeed in work.

00:10:12

Speaker

Great. Well, that's a great example for a startup. What about

Corporations and the Circular Economy

00:10:16

Speaker

corporate? You mentioned corporates. Yeah, corporate sectors are more kind of holistic way of impact and approach because, well, at the CIF, currently we are seeking the theme of system change and system change, it's kind of difficult concept to explain, but no matter how much each corporation or each startup can create our impactful solution to the problems,

00:10:46

Speaker

Because the problems are systemic, it's really difficult to make one-time solution to really break the bottleneck of the systemic problems.

00:10:59

Speaker

So we started searching the systemic approach to the impact investing. In that context, I think big corporations are taking a really important role because startups can create the very like pinpoint solution to the program.

00:11:19

Speaker

But no matter how impactful their intervention is, it's really small and breaking the small part of the system. But at the same time, there are kind of big corporations around that system And without changing of those big corporations' behaviors or business model, it's always difficult to expand the impact or really change the systemic level transformation.

00:11:52

Speaker

So, for example, there's this big corporation called Marui in Japan. It's an apparel company. A B2C company, which has ah lot of kind of department store over Japan.

00:12:07

Speaker

And they're now doing a lot of initiative in terms of sustainability. But one of them is to from promote the circular economy. So they commit to the recyclable products all over their stores, all over Japan. And it's really wonderful that they engage the consumers and clients or the stores and join the movement together.

00:12:37

Speaker

to recycle their products or to promote them to choose those products. And they also put the impact target KPIs in terms of circular economy by 2030 so that they involve their consumers and stakeholders in a way so that they could achieve that goal in a collective way.

00:13:01

Speaker

ah Seems to be a very holistic approach to their sustainability commitments. And it's really great to hear that they have this commitment towards circular economy. We're talking about it, but it's relatively rare, right, to see corporates having that true commitment towards such goals.

00:13:19

Speaker

Yeah, great. Thank you.

Public Equity and Social Impact Initiatives

00:13:20

Speaker

And perhaps last example about the financial institution that you think is exemplary, Mizuho or maybe others that you think are good.

00:13:29

Speaker

Yeah, now like Mizuho, Mitsui, or Mitsubishi, all the major financial or major bank groups are all doing impact work and committed to impact investment or impact finance.

00:13:44

Speaker

If I can pick one of them, Well, I think recent years in Japan, more and more public equity impact investment fund were founded.

00:13:56

Speaker

And as I mentioned, it's really important to move big corporations. So in terms of system change, I think those major financial institutions are taking really critical role to move the big corporations and not only promoting the ESG type of improvement of ESG ratings or index those kind of stuff.

00:14:23

Speaker

They need to engage with each corporations to have impact metrics and and theory of change or logic model for each company and engage to or support them to achieve the impact KPIs.

00:14:41

Speaker

So I think there are like three to five public equity impact investment fund in Japan, and some of them can be traded for retail. So it's really powerful tool to let the consumers or to the the citizens to know the concept of impact because venture capitals or the startups investment are basically closed to the professional financial firms.

00:15:10

Speaker

But public equity, if you sell the the product to the to the public, it's possible for us to buy a small amount of money and to join the movement of impact investment as a consumer or citizens.

00:15:27

Speaker

And through that kind of product, it gave like ordinary people to notice, okay, there are businesses which really contribute to the planet and society And it will maybe change their behavior in terms of consumption or to support those organizations or to get to know more about social issues or environmental issues and take actions.

00:15:57

Speaker

So public equity impact investment will be the very important and interesting and fun Yeah, you're right. It's a great, probably a bridge or a step towards involving more, yeah, as you say, ordinary people to start looking at how their money is used, how they're using their savings, their investments for yeah something that is perhaps a bit better than just traditional financial products.

00:16:26

Speaker

So there may be now much more impact investors of all sorts in Japan, but definitely you've been one of the pioneers. Can you tell us about your own journey? How did you

Nanako's Career Journey

00:16:38

Speaker

get here? What were the milestones in your journey or any pivotal moments?

00:16:44

Speaker

Sure. Well, I was originally interested in working in development field. So when I was a junior high student, My passion was to help people in the developing world because at that time there was a kind of broadcasting news about the poverty in in Africa and in other countries. And I started...

00:17:11

Speaker

doing small things like sending the clothes or donating the small amount of money. But after some time, when I was junior high school student, there was news about this woman, Mrs. Ogata, who was the lady, Japanese lady, appointed to the head of UNHCR.

00:17:35

Speaker

And that was the first time for me to realize, okay, This could be the job. Because before that, for me, helping someone in, like someone underserved as volunteer.

00:17:50

Speaker

But this news about Mrs. Ogata taught me, okay, this could be the job and this could be something I can pursue for a career.

00:18:01

Speaker

So after that, I started looking at the job at the UN. And for me, it was the only choice I knew in that field.

00:18:13

Speaker

So being a or working for the UN was my dream. So I started studying the international development at the university and doing some work in Japan.

00:18:27

Speaker

in developing countries or volunteer work. But it was difficult to get a job in the development field right after graduation from the university. So I started my career at the global trading company, Mitsui in Japan.

00:18:45

Speaker

And I happened to assign in a project of real estate investment. That was the the kind of encounter for me with the investment and finance world.

00:18:59

Speaker

At that time, I didn't know and i I didn't have any interest in finance or investment. I was just asking my boss to assign me for the Africa project.

00:19:14

Speaker

It didn't work. And I ended up working in the real estate investment department. But after four and a half years, I decided quit my job and went to the U.S. to do my master's in international development because it was my original plan.

00:19:35

Speaker

And that time in the U.S., it was 2009. two cells on nine It was right after the financial crisis. And there was big crisis.

00:19:46

Speaker

movement of impact investing just starting in in the U.S. And I found the Acumen Fund in New York. And for me, it was a kind of click.

00:19:58

Speaker

Okay, this could be the job I can use my experience in financial field and my life mission and dream to contribute to the people who are in the developing world.

00:20:09

Speaker

So I started in doing my research on impact investment. And I also did an internship in Pakistan through Acumen Fund.

00:20:21

Speaker

And after my two years master's degree program, I started applying for some positions of impact fund in the US, but it didn't work. Nothing worked.

00:20:34

Speaker

So unfortunately, i I ended up coming back to Japan and I got an offer from the Nippon Foundation, which is the biggest foundation in Japan, charitable or philanthropic, very traditional type of foundation.

00:20:51

Speaker

At that time, Nippon Foundation didn't do anything about impact investing or social finance. But I actually proposed to the boss at the time about the idea of venture philanthropy or impact fund based on the idea of Acumen Fund. Because Acumen Fund for the first phase, they're heavily funded by the Rockefeller Foundation.

00:21:17

Speaker

So philanthropy was always the incubator of impact investing in the US. And I hoped it was the Nippon Foundation, the biggest Japanese foundation, could be the incubator and the ecosystem builder of impact investing.

00:21:35

Speaker

So after 2011, when I joined the Nippon Foundation, I started a small project of impact investing venture philanthropy, social impact bonds.

00:21:46

Speaker

In 2013, as I mentioned, there was an offer from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs about this G8 thing and everything started. Yeah, a big milestone for many of us, for sure.

00:22:00

Speaker

Thank you. I didn't actually know the start of your journey, so thank you for sharing. Perhaps if I can now ask you to describe a bit more your job, like what does your role today look like?

00:22:14

Speaker

SIIF is a spin-off, right, of the Nippon Foundation. also So maybe if you can explain how that happened, that would be really interesting to

SIF's Role in Impact Investment

00:22:22

Speaker

hear. Yeah, as I mentioned, SIIF is kind of spin out from the Nippon Foundation. we We originally set up a kind of team, social investment team at the Nippon Foundation.

00:22:36

Speaker

But it was actually difficult to make an investment, make a profitable and market return investment through the the foundation because of the public investment.

00:22:50

Speaker

certification system in Japan under the regulation of the government. So we decided to have our different entity out of or outside of the Nippon Foundation.

00:23:02

Speaker

But SIIF is still under the Nippon Foundation group and our financial resource is mainly from the Nippon Foundation. And my role at the foundation right now is it mainly know the kind of management role.

00:23:19

Speaker

Because in 2017, we just started um with the the team of six or seven people. And at the time, team was really small. So I do everything and everyone is doing was doing everything.

00:23:35

Speaker

have a very small team startup. But right now we have 30 people, yeah, bigger than that time. So my role is actually make a good team to make an impact in Japan.

00:23:50

Speaker

And at the same time, there are so many different projects. SIIF has actually two kind of domains. One is doing investment by ourselves to make a showcase of impact investment.

00:24:04

Speaker

And the other side is to do research, advocacy work, networking conferences, those kind of field building type of work.

00:24:14

Speaker

So there are a lot of different kind of works going on. So my main role right now is to just how those teams are ah working in a collaborative way to move the impact economy movement forward in Japan.

00:24:32

Speaker

At the same time, right now, Japanese government is heavily supporting the concept of impact economy. So last year, actually, the Financial Services Agency of Japan started a consortium of impact economy.

00:24:50

Speaker

And we are involved heavily in that process of making a consortium and working groups and the that consortium and those kinds of stuff.

00:25:00

Speaker

So I think my other role is more kind of, how can I say, like the the making the context and building the environment, connecting the people. Yes, yes, yes.

00:25:13

Speaker

And speaking at the those places and to show what is important and why it's important and which direction.

00:25:24

Speaker

We need to go as a group. Yeah, no small job, right? And I just want to highlight the Financial Services Authority. You seem to describe it like as something casual, but it's big, right? It's it's the regulator's a financial regulator in Japan. So it's it's a really important organization that has really taken on this role of bringing people together and getting everyone to think about an impact economy. So congratulations on that big step and also your role in shaping the discourse and shaping the conversations there.

00:25:56

Speaker

And one question that I also wanted to ask you, so my understanding is that SIF is one of the organizations that is, how to say, benefiting from the impact wholesaler that was created in Japan.

Japan's Impact Wholesaler Initiative

00:26:09

Speaker

It would be really good to hear about that journey and how you're using that money and what sort of topics maybe or social issues ah you're addressing with yeah the capital that you're getting from the impact wholesaler.

00:26:22

Speaker

Yeah, so it's been a long journey because when was the time Dorman Bank account? In the UK, it 2012 where they created Big Society Capital, which now rebranded to Better Society Capital.

00:26:40

Speaker

So yeah, it's it's a while ago. It's an interesting starting point to tell the story. Yeah, so I think... If my understanding is right, I think it was around 2013, the chairman of the Nippon Foundation noticed this news about big society capital in the UK and got an idea. Okay, Doman Bank account, that's innovative idea and let's do research in Japan. And the Nippon Foundation did the research and found that huge, the biggest problem

00:27:12

Speaker

amount of dormant bank account assets are the biggest in the world or kind of in Japan. So a group of non-profit sector people got together and created a kind of initiative to release the dormant bank account asset to contribute to the society. So we just try to copy the model of big society capital in Japan. So visited in in the UK many times to research and we do a lot of advocacy to the politicians and government. And so after a few years of collective effort, in 2016, the new law to release the Dorman Bank Account Fund in Japan was created.

00:28:05

Speaker

And from 2019, it finally started to be used for the underserved people in Japan. And yeah, from 2019 to 2021, for the three years, SEIF has been the recipient of the fund or the grant from the wholesaler and distribute the money to the social businesses on the ground.

00:28:31

Speaker

And the original idea is to copy the big society capital. So we push so much to make it possible to use the money as an investment.

00:28:44

Speaker

But for the first phase of the project, it was not possible because the stakeholders of the Japanese version of big society capital is it's kind of cautious and they decided not to do that for the first phase.

00:29:00

Speaker

But from this year, it finally started to be used for the investment. So it will be used in a way that venture capital for social businesses, it's not the market rate return investment.

00:29:15

Speaker

It's meant to be the gap filler, filling the gap between the IPO type of startups and non-profit. There kind of zebra companies in Japan, like local businesses or social businesses, which are not possible to make a huge money, but make sustainable business model.

00:29:40

Speaker

So using that fund, SIIF actually distributes the grant to the social businesses and also give the heavy hands-on sub support to make those social businesses grow.

00:29:56

Speaker

For example, we do support the housing services for the people who have difficulties to find decent houses. Or we support the local healthcare systems where the healthcare access is really difficult to provide.

00:30:19

Speaker

Great. That's beautiful description of the impact that you're trying to create. I like to ask this question of all my guests. How does it feel to be a woman doing this job?

Gender Gap in Finance

00:30:32

Speaker

Yeah, I know. Personally, I don't have any difficulties or the obstacles, as a thank especially as a woman, to work in this sector. But in fact, financial sector is one of the typical sectors women are not seen, in the especially in the kind of manager or the senior level.

00:30:58

Speaker

So in the financial sector or the startup scene, women entrepreneur entrepreneurs or women CEO are really rare. But among that, impact startups or impact investment scene.

00:31:13

Speaker

There are a lot of women because more and more women are really interested in in those kind of approach. For me, it's really encouraging to work with those women as an ally to make a movement.

00:31:30

Speaker

But at the same time, as you may know, Japan is ranked like 120 or something like that in the gender gap index.

00:31:43

Speaker

It was really bad. Among the four factors, like healthcare care and education, Japan is ranked really high, but economics and politics, it was around like 120 to 140 or something like that.

00:32:00

Speaker

So it was a huge gap between those two factors, four factors. So we have a lot of things to do here and not only contributing the solution or ah for the the women or changing the behavior or or business model of the corporations to invest,

00:32:23

Speaker

We ourselves or investors side need to change ourselves because no matter how much impact we can create through the startups or corporations, if the people sitting in the investment committee are all men, all over 50 60, is it really impact?

00:32:43

Speaker

That's the kind of question we need to face. So we need to, like before pushing the change to the investee, we ourselves need to decide to change ourselves and we need to change our governance system, our process and so on.

00:33:02

Speaker

I think I've been so lucky because all the people were so helpful for me and my bosses were generous enough to give me a chance.

00:33:13

Speaker

But it is real. Most women working in this sector are not 100% comfortable and 100% comfortable. and ho pressen I don't think they feel are acknowledged and evaluated in a fair way.

00:33:30

Speaker

So that's the fact. And we need to change and we have a lot of things to do. But it's really difficult to change the sense of value or way of thinking.

00:33:42

Speaker

I think we need tactics and we need our so many different ways to make a kind of movement.

Advice for Women in Social Impact

00:33:51

Speaker

What advice would you have for other women in Japan, you know, in the social space, social impact space?

00:33:58

Speaker

To find a role model or mentor, female mentor, working in the same sector and then in the same kind of space.

00:34:09

Speaker

And for example, there's this lady who used to work for Triodos Bank in Netherlands and now she's an advisor to SIIF.

00:34:21

Speaker

And this lady was almost like 20 years older than me, I think. But those women leaders who have been building the field of impact investing or impact economy, and i I'm always encouraged and empowered by those leaders.

00:34:42

Speaker

So find a mentor, find a friend, and get a collective action. Slightly different question, but i would say connected to many things that you have been saying is this podcast is an opportunity for you to reflect on you know your achievements, what you're most proud of, or also perhaps things that you still want to achieve in the future.

00:35:06

Speaker

Yeah, I think I'm so lucky. I've been so lucky and it was such an exciting journey looking back my 10 years career in this field.

00:35:19

Speaker

And I didn't expect at all... Because when I started my career at the Nippon Foundation, I was like, maybe like after three years, I will go other jobs.

00:35:32

Speaker

So it was so interesting too. And it's really, everything is different. For me, it doesn't go in the way I planned at all.

00:35:46

Speaker

I always made a plan, in not only in terms of my career, but also maybe the trajectory of the development of impact investment market in Japan.

00:35:57

Speaker

We made a kind of scenario in 2013, and it went... thirteen and when So different way, we didn't expect the fact that GPIF signed up with UNPRI in a And it's so natural.

00:36:14

Speaker

And that's the kind of beautiful part. That's the exciting part. It didn't go in a way we oh oh you or you expected. But looking back, it was such an exciting journey.

00:36:28

Speaker

So from now on, I think it will go in the same way. i have a plan. i see if it's now committed to... system change.

00:36:39

Speaker

And I think impact investing is going one step forward to system change investing. And we need to make that transformation.

00:36:50

Speaker

But that journey itself is really uncertain. It's impossible to make a scenario firm plan.

00:37:00

Speaker

But I think it's important to enjoy that uncertainty and ready for the the uncertainty. Absolutely. Enjoying the uncertainty.

00:37:13

Speaker

I couldn't agree more. Yeah, finding joy in system change because it's very uncertain. It is just planning for uncertainty

Nanako's Personal Well-being Practices

00:37:23

Speaker

almost.

00:37:23

Speaker

And i guess another question that I usually also ask is what is helping you to be your best self? You know, it's ah quite a demanding job that you have, that we have.

00:37:36

Speaker

What are the things that help you?

00:37:40

Speaker

Eating. Yes, absolutely.

00:37:43

Speaker

Some favorites? I think some favorites. Yeah, some sweet thing. ah Japanese sweet. Because things are so hard and so many troubles every day, but it's actually nothing.

00:38:00

Speaker

If you look at the world, it's so, it's a small thing. And no matter how big you feel I feel, it's just a small thing. And I always think I have more important things around me, my son, my husband, my family, mui and my friend.

00:38:22

Speaker

And in the end of the day, in I think when... My life is ending. Things I will reflect on is the time I share with my friend and husband and my son. And I will be happy if I feel i have fun.

00:38:42

Speaker

I had a fun and I contributed a little bit to the society. That's my satisfaction. So it's kind of stressful to to manage the team and organization.

00:38:57

Speaker

And yeah, it's always hard to move the financial sector or a system change or those kind of like difficult things. But all the process is actually fun and it's a process.

00:39:12

Speaker

So I don't focus too much on achievement, short-term achievement, because it's not a big thing. It's a kind of never-ending journey.

00:39:24

Speaker

System change, it's never-ending journey. So the important thing is to enjoy the process and to enjoy your day So having a tea, having a sweet and having fun with my son. And if i have that kind of time, small time in a day, that will make my day.

00:39:50

Speaker

That's amazing. Yeah, absolutely. The small things in the day, right? Enjoying them and finding beauty

Conclusion and Listener Engagement

00:39:57

Speaker

in them. We are approaching the end of this conversation.

00:40:01

Speaker

so I have three quick questions. What's keeping you optimistic? a I think, well, optimistic friends. Good.

00:40:13

Speaker

What's inspiring you or who's inspiring you? Sir Cohen and the lady I mentioned, the advisor from the Tri o dos bank . Okay, awesome.

00:40:25

Speaker

And are you reading anything that you would recommend to others? Youth Theory. Okay. Yes, I like that too.

00:40:36

Speaker

Nanako, it was such a pleasure, such a pleasure really to have this conversation. So thank you so much for spending the time today together. Yeah, let's keep enjoying the process.

00:40:49

Speaker

Yes, thank you so much.

00:40:54

Speaker

If you will stay with us, thank you so much for the time that you took to discover one of the amazing women changing finance. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and on social media.

00:41:06

Speaker

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00:41:17

Speaker

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