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Joe Maldonado
1.1k Plays1 year ago
Joe Maldonado is a poet and mental health professional, author of the poetry collections Subterranean Summer and Skeleton American. His work has also appeared in numerous anthologies, including Remembering Jack Kerouac (National Beat Poetry Foundation, 2022). He served on the council of the Transformative Language Arts Network from 2017-2020 and hosts monthly open mics in New York.. You can follow him on social media, @joemaldonado81
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to something rather than nothing. Creator and host Ken Volante. Editor and producer Peter Bauer.
00:00:16
Speaker
Hey everybody, this is the Something Rather Than Nothing podcast. I'm super excited to have Joe Maldonado, a poet over there catching up with Joe in Queens. Hey Joe, welcome to the Something Rather Than Nothing podcast. Thank you, thank you. It's great to be here. Yeah, it's great to have you.
00:00:35
Speaker
Before popping on, Joe and I were sharing. Joe had gone to Providence College and I grew up in Pawtucket, Rhode Island. Had many friends go to Providence College. Of course, I went to the University of Rhode Island, Joe. I didn't tell you that.
Joe Maldonado's Poetic Journey
00:00:49
Speaker
So he's playing Providence College in basketball. I was not the best citizen towards Providence College in those games.
00:01:00
Speaker
But great great institution great institution and love to hear the Providence connection and of course reaching you from New York City I've um
00:01:10
Speaker
I've got into your poetry, including Skeleton American Subterranean Summer, and recently a very crafty and intriguing title, The Beautiful Ugliness of Being, a volume that you have out.
Exploring Joe's Poetry Books
00:01:29
Speaker
We talk poetry on this show sometimes. So, Joe, have at it. Tell us about these poems. Tell us about you as a poet.
00:01:39
Speaker
Okay, so for me, I would say, I think like most artists and writers, you know, poetry just kind of started as just something personal really, you know, just kind of a way to
00:01:56
Speaker
let my feelings out, you know, on paper and maybe kind of a way of even trying to explore some of my thoughts and feelings just on different things going on personally, things going on in the world. Yeah, I don't usually tend to have, you know, a set topic or something that I'm going to write, you know, sort of just, you know, as things come to me, that's always kind of been my method of writing is just
00:02:26
Speaker
in the moment, whatever's on my mind, you know, and it could be sparked by anything, either something going on personally, you know, something I saw on the news, or, you know, just something I overheard somebody else talking about, you know, I mean, it could, to me poetry can come from anywhere really.
00:02:42
Speaker
And again, I think I started probably late high school, early college years just kind of writing stuff and notebooks and things like that. And then as time moved on, especially in college, in classes and stuff, I found that people kind of got
00:03:06
Speaker
something out of, you know, either reading my poetry or hearing me read it. And then, you know, that's kind of where I started getting the idea of, okay, maybe, you know, I can kind of put some of this out there in the world and just see what other people think of it. You know, it was never really meant as
00:03:26
Speaker
business mover or a money making venture. I don't think many people expect anything in poetry to be really a money making venture. Everybody rushing into the poetry biz, right? Exactly. It was more just a way to connect with people. Once you start putting it out there and you start hearing people, oh, that poem you read about growing up,
00:03:57
Speaker
as a Puerto Rican in the suburbs, you know, that really, you know, I connected to that. And it's like, Oh, wow. Okay. So maybe this stuff isn't just all in my head and on paper, you know, it could help me connect with other people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of why I just started, you know, putting some stuff out there and putting some books together. You know, the first book subterranean summer, that's, uh, it's actually been 10 years this year. It'll be 10 years. Congrats.
Philosophical Themes in Poetry
00:04:22
Speaker
That one came out. Um, yeah. And like you said, uh,
00:04:27
Speaker
There was Skeleton American, which was kind of released right in the middle of COVID and the pandemic and all that. So maybe a little kind of darker problems kind of fitting with just what was going on. It's tough to produce those beautiful flowers regularly during the pandemic. Well, tell me about the title, The Beautiful Ugliness of Being. I see the word being, right? This is a philosophy show.
00:04:55
Speaker
And, you know, being is such a great word, I think, about Milan Kunder, who recently just passed away, the bearable lightness of being, you know, thinking about that title, and the beautiful ugliness of being. When I read the title, I understood it somehow, but tell us what you're thinking about, you know, I read your poems,
00:05:23
Speaker
Like much poetry, there's kind of, you know, bigger aspirations and beauty of what humans are. And then there's the sloppiness of humans, the injustice and all these types of things in there. Is that the beautifulness or what are we getting at? Yeah, I think you kind of.
00:05:48
Speaker
hit it right on the head a bit there. Obviously, like you mentioned, The Unbearable Lightness of Being, that was a book that I read many years ago, but it's always stuck with me. Not even consciously, but once I came up with the title of the poem, which is where the title of the book comes from, then dawned on me a bit later that, oh yeah, it's kind of
00:06:13
Speaker
that connection with that book that you mentioned. But yeah, the beautiful ugliness of being, to me, it's just kind of embrace, a way of embracing in our personal lives and just in the whole world, you know, I mean, you can't
Poetry's Role in Community and Social Causes
00:06:38
Speaker
go on Instagram or flip on the TV or going on any of these social media things. You can't help but see some terrible tragedy that's going on somewhere in the world. It's been throughout history. Of course, there's been numerous terrible things that just happen every day. We can sit here and ponder and worry about all those terrible things going on.
00:07:09
Speaker
somehow to me there's always you know the flip side of it you know like the old thing about Mr. Rogers you know whenever you see a tragedy on TV look for the helpers you know yeah so to me that's always it's kind of trying to find the positive and trying to find the good in the world even
00:07:36
Speaker
regardless of all the terrible things that are happening, that are going to keep happening, some things that we can try to prevent from happening, and then there's others that are just way too big for us to even comprehend and just too big and out of our control, but we can always try to find, okay, what can I do in this moment?
00:07:55
Speaker
that's good, you know, that I can either bring good to the world in some way or good to myself in some way just to try to, you know, have some type of self-care. So, you know, to me, it's just all that, trying to find the positivity no matter what this crazy world will throw at us next, you know? Yeah, I really appreciate that and the instinct towards it because for me,
00:08:22
Speaker
for me, and I've written poetry, I'm a writer, so I can identify and connect with poets and writers, and it's about sensitivity, right? So there's this, however you're made up, there can be this super sensitivity to the world and or to sounds. And there's something beautiful about poetry for me is that
00:08:47
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I've seen it as like this kind of crystallization of words to express thoughts that maybe me as a philosopher, or those who are writing, writing, writing, and writing, there's poetry when it works. It's captured it and pointed you at it in a few words, not as opposed to theory, but it is a way to...
00:09:13
Speaker
uh... to get at the truth and i i've always seen i mentioned the title cuz i i i don't bear the lightness of being it's always been a brutal in my head in your titles of riddle and i like those type of riddles uh... unbearable lightness of being is like how i was always like unbearable it being as light right you're not you're not uh... but you're not tethered to anything you're you don't yeah all these great ideas uh... uh... that that that come from it so on tell me about uh...
00:09:42
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Tell me about doing poetry over by you. I like to love New York City. So what's it like for you? You got to group poets once in a while and you perform out there in New York City?
00:10:01
Speaker
You know, again, throughout my years, I spent time I grew up in Long Island, you know, so I spent a lot of time shut out Strong Island. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I've spent a lot of time in different various groups, you know, between Long Island and the city.
00:10:17
Speaker
About a year ago, I actually started running an open mic in Queens. And we use this idea of bards against hunger, which was actually something that started out in Long Island.
00:10:35
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points of mind, James Wagner, he came up with this idea of using poetry events to sort of raise awareness about food scarcity and trying to have collections of food and donations to local food banks and things like that. So we started this open mic again about a year ago and we use it as a way to collect food and donate to food pantries and things like that. And again,
00:11:06
Speaker
To me, I mean, I know, again, some people kind of use these things as like a business venture, you know, charge money and come do open mic hours. Vent is just free. It's really just about trying to make a way of, get a way of people to connect with each other and do some good for their, you know, for the community. And yet we've had people come really from all over. I mean, we've even had people that are just stopping in New York for the night on their way, you know,
00:11:34
Speaker
a flight from Europe over to somewhere else in the United States. Yeah, that's great about New York, right? That's so great. And they're just in New York for the night, and they'll come. They're into poetry. They see an open mic. They come and do some performances. So it's really just been a great way to just connect with a whole bunch of different people, all walks of life. Some people that have books out and are trying to get their poetry
Art, Poetry, and Mental Health
00:11:57
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out there. Other people never read any of their poems in front of anybody before, and they're just getting up there for the first time.
00:12:04
Speaker
And I think, to me, that's what I get out of poetry is just making those connections with people. Like I said, it's not really about, I'm going to be rich and famous off of this or anything like that. It's just making connections with people. Well, there's something powerful that within literary communities and poetry. So for me, I'm a
00:12:27
Speaker
I'm a union organizer by day. So I see our, you know, I see our and, you know, what you're mentioning is like, how do you connect to people? What's what's what are quick ways, right? Because part of your poetry is, you know, our eyes are our eyes are fuzzy. We're kind of walking around and, you know, and, you know, with with the power of poetry and word is as organizing around issues or showing people like, hey,
00:12:56
Speaker
You know, I'm Joe and this, this shit hurts me and I'm confused by this, but you know, here's, here's how it came out. There's something so powerful in doing that. I mean, people think of music, poetry readings, art performances, and that's for me is like, you know, why I do the show is because it's, uh, it's, it's, it's performance.
00:13:16
Speaker
All right, Joe, one of the big ones for you. What is art? You're over there creating, you know, trying to get the words right. But like for you, how do you view art? What is art and how do you connect to it? To me, art is really any way that I guess
00:13:41
Speaker
We try to express our inner feelings in a way that's beyond just normal conversation. I work in mental health too, so there's that part of connecting with people. Just tell me how you feel. I'm just having a chitchat. That's one thing. But when it gets beyond that is where I think it turns into art, where it's more than just the normal
00:14:10
Speaker
everyday language we would use. That could be either in a poem, it could be turning it into a story of some sort or perform it. I've worked with a lot of storytellers, things like that, that they're able to just take a basic story, but make it something more. Love story. Or, of course, there's visual arts too, and it's kind of like, how do you take a thought and then it's turned into something that you just look at.
00:14:40
Speaker
and you know the feeling that the person was going through just by looking at a painting or a drawing or something. So yeah, to me art is anything where you're going beyond just that normal conversation. And I think, to me, everybody is an artist of some sort. When we're kids, everybody's picked up crayons or a paintbrush.
00:15:08
Speaker
a little play guitar or a little bongo drum or something. We've all done that to some extent. To me, it's something that's just part of our humanity, something that's in us. As we grow and mature, some people, I feel like they lose that part of them for whatever reason, and I don't know why. Other people embrace parts of it or all of it. There's some people that
00:15:39
Speaker
freely do all the arts there, you know, they're musicians and poets and visual artists and sculptors and they do all of it, you know, and then there's other people that kind of just really gravitate towards one or the other. And why that is, I don't know. But I find it all fascinating, Joe, you know, and the thing is, is that
00:16:03
Speaker
No, I think you're right. I think, you know, whether you're making a rhythm or the things that we've done in a lot of the show, you know, shows over 200 episodes now and, you know, obviously themes emerge and it has to do with the people talk about moments where they, you know, left the art behind, which is a question. Can you do that? You know, cause it's part of us, but you know, left the art behind or.
00:16:23
Speaker
you know, I've talked to artists, Susie Deville, who's an entrepreneur business creativity, you're saying like, look, if you're creating things, you're trying to connect to people, it might be products, it might be other things, creativity, creativity, creativity, like, it's not, it's not simple. But the idea that it's not an either or, right, like, I am, you know, artists here, and I can't do these things that that that we are that and I
00:16:53
Speaker
something you mentioned about, um, you know, working in a mental mental health in the arts for me, that's, that's been the show because I announced it as art, philosophy, and liberation. And that liberation, I think nowadays it's viewed as political. Amen. That's fine. But that there's a personal or group liberation through the arts that you're like, eh, the way I was doing it before, nah,
00:17:21
Speaker
or an integration of the arts into things or the jump. You know, I recently interviewed an artist, Blair Borax, who was teaching K to 12 schools. She's on the road hustling, doing the art, you know, so it can take these different forms. But, um, I find a lot of energy, uh, in that, and I, I, I truly believe and in talking to you right now that art heals.
00:17:48
Speaker
And I think that's what we've been talking about since we chatted.
Has the Role of Art Changed?
00:17:55
Speaker
I've done some work with an organization called the Transformative Language Arts Network. I don't know if you've ever heard of them in any other aspect, but they're kind of just a whole organization that promotes healing, personal healing, community healing through
00:18:15
Speaker
how they say, the written, spoken, and sung word. And so it's really a connection of poets, storytellers, even musicians that have maybe more of a political message or inspirational message in their music, things like that, and kind of use that as an organizing tool in different ways.
00:18:43
Speaker
So yeah, I mean, there's, and yeah, through that, through my work with them and, you know, going to some of their conferences and things, you just see, there's so many people out there that are just using the arts as a way of, you know, not just helping, you know, self-help, but really just helping their communities in like tons of different ways. Like you've mentioned working with kids and some people do writing workshops in prisons or with disabled veterans, things like that. Yeah.
00:19:14
Speaker
awesome things that are going on out there. And that's what I'm bumping in because I can read your poetry and I know like within that there's this movement towards, yeah, this is the mess, but there's something very inspiring about, you know, how people use and can create or reconnect. I appreciate that.
00:19:34
Speaker
We've been chatting about art and the role of art. I think you probably made some comments on the role of art and what it
AI's Impact on Creativity
00:19:41
Speaker
does. But let me ask you a little bit of wrinkle on that, given your previous comments. Is the role of art different now? We're talking July 2023 here. It's a provocative question. But is art still just art-ing, or is there something about somebody who's creating art
00:20:02
Speaker
here in 2023 that its role is different. That's an interesting question. It's sort of something that I thought about a lot recently, especially when coming up with this book, my latest book. There's all this talk and there's all these things going on now with
00:20:27
Speaker
AI and deep fakes and all this kind of stuff. So I feel like we're really kind of at an interesting moment in history, as far as art and, you know, what is art, you know, if a computer
00:20:47
Speaker
comes out with a whole slate of pictures that they put up in a gallery. It's hard, you know, if no person has anything, you know, or a book, they can write, you know, a computer can write, you know, some of these chat GPT and these other AI things nowadays. I mean, they can write whole books themselves, you know, so who's to say? Let me ask you a question about that. Yeah, not to interrupt, but let me ask you a question about that, right?
00:21:18
Speaker
Chat GPT, you know, we're all around humans and I'm around humans are being like This is my problem, right? This is my personal problem, you know when people are like, oh shit You know There's this type of information we want to display and they took and I haven't used it. I haven't used it. I'll tell you why I can't as a writer Understand in the faintest
00:21:46
Speaker
why I would want anybody or anything producing words for me as a writer, like as a process thing or any of that type of thing. I can't fathom my act of writing that is connected to any, to anything. So I can't get off the, I can't get off the hump.
00:22:12
Speaker
But not only that, for me, the reaction of others who maybe aren't writers in the way in my head, I'm thinking, are like, yo, let's fucking plug it in. Like, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I'm like, why? Why did you give it away? Why? Why did you advocate for what is yours to others? So I can't even get off the snide, Joe. Is that a writer reaction or?
00:22:43
Speaker
Yeah, no, I agree. It's very. Yeah. And I mean, it's so like new and so, you know, you know, it's so evolving on a day to day basis that I can't really grasp my head around what this might mean, you know, in the future. I mean, you know, of course, there's the writer's strike and the actor's strike going on as we're speaking right now and things like that. So, you know, I mean, what do we do if a computer can just
00:23:12
Speaker
create faces and end the script. Let's figure it out, Joe, if we figure it out. If you're a writer or anybody.
00:23:20
Speaker
Technically, I guess possible now we could have whole movies that's made without any human Well, you know Maybe we trying to drive down and figure this one out because then we have the biggest episode ever we figure We figured it out. You figured it out. Um, but no, it's it's it's it's a huge issue You see it come up, you know within labor images of actors these type of things things being used into perpetuity signing off rights and
00:23:50
Speaker
But I mean at the same time I also have the thought of we don't know
The Nature of Human Creativity
00:23:57
Speaker
what, I mean people are creative in all kind of ways and there might be all kind of new ways to use this type of stuff in ways that we're not even thinking of but some artists or somebody out there is going to come up with some out there idea and make some kind of whole new art or something that we're maybe not even
00:24:20
Speaker
Imagining right now, so you know like anything. I think there's always whenever new technology comes up. It's always like a Sort of a fear factor. Oh my god. What can this mean, but yeah could also be other Things that you're not thinking of that can be for our benefit. You know that's absolutely true as far as it being of use Had a little experiment just my producer said that he said hey I plugged in these things in this chat GPT as an experiment and it was
00:24:51
Speaker
It was Donald Trump, um, uh, talking like Donald duck about a particular, about a particular individual. Uh, and this first draft, I mean, getting into it, this first draft, I was laughing my ass off. I was laughing my ass off. And my producer Peter said, Hey, that's the thing like with this type of stuff in writing, that's the first draft.
00:25:16
Speaker
You know, you're, you're, you're, you're laughing away right here. This is the first draft. So you see, you see, you know, with me saying, not abdicate in that type of thing, you see that the grist of the mill in there, people put the grist in something comes on, like, whoa, you know, so there's something going on. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. Yeah. And again, we're just getting the tip of the iceberg right now. So who knows? You know, 20, 30, 40, 50 years from now, what?
00:25:47
Speaker
They'll be doing with this stuff. Yeah. Well, we'll find out we'll find out we're trying to stay at the cutting edge We're trying to stay at the cutting edge here. It's something rather than nothing, but we're gonna have to we're gonna have to find out Okay, I got a big question for you here, you know big philosophy question As as as we sit down and talk and Ink related to art as well. Why is there something rather than nothing?
00:26:15
Speaker
Yes, if I could answer that, I'd have... Again, you can do a mic drop at the end, but give it a good college try. Well, again, to me... I mean, to me, I don't think we'll ever know.
00:26:44
Speaker
exactly how it all started. Of course, there's the big bang and different theories and things like that of how this whole being kind of started that we're in right now. But I think beyond the greater sense of something rather than nothing, I think we as people have this kind of impulse to continue
00:27:14
Speaker
to add to whatever there is. And I know as we've just gone through civilization after civilization over the years, I mean, for whatever reason, that creative impulse is part of us as humans. And we're just always looking for what's the next thing. OK, we've got this all built. We've done this. No, that's not good enough. What's the next step? What are we going to add to this?
00:27:44
Speaker
Yeah, and I don't know what that is that gives us that kind of instinct that we don't necessarily see in other living beings. It's a beautiful instinct. Yeah, yeah. It's a beautiful instinct. Yeah. But again, that's going back to the title of my book, you know, the beautiful hugginess of being. I feel like it's just, to me, it's just fascinating to watch as
00:28:14
Speaker
you know, as the world evolves, as people change and society changes, you know, I mean, there are other people that you see try to fight this change, fight that change. No, we got to get this back. We've gone too far. Let's go back to how it was. And, you know, I mean, there's other some people that have that impulse. But to me, it's just kind of this.
00:28:39
Speaker
always fascinating just to see, okay, what are, as a collective species of beings that are just always trying to think of the next step, what are we going to think of next? You know, what is, what's next to come?
Joe Maldonado's Work and Community Events
00:28:52
Speaker
You know, fascinating to see what's. I agree. Hey.
00:28:58
Speaker
And Joe, you're doing Providence College proud. Uh, love, love the discussion and love that, love that, uh, connection back over there. I was glad to hear, uh, that, uh, and to, um, uh, Providence College. And of course, uh, folks, uh, Joe Maldonado, um, uh, really, uh, really great chat with you. Hey Joe, I want, I wanted you to let the listeners know, um, where to find your poetry and for some of the,
00:29:26
Speaker
lucky folks who are in the New York City in the boroughs just in general like maybe where you know you might pop around letting the listeners know. Sure, sure. Yeah, so again, my latest book, The Beautiful Ugliness of Being, it's available on Amazon through Alien Buddha Press as the publisher.
00:29:49
Speaker
That's only in paperback right now. The other two books of mine, Skeleton American and Subterranean Summer, are also on Amazon. Those are available paperback or ebook, like Kindle versions.
00:30:03
Speaker
And personally, like I said, I host a open mic in Astoria, Queens. It's the first Wednesday every month at Urban Vegan Roots is the name of the place we do it. And yeah, Pop, you'll see me around different poetry events. The most recent one is this coming weekend at the New York City Poetry Festival.
00:30:33
Speaker
July 29th. Yeah, lovely. Yeah. And again, I'll be you can follow me on all the social media at Joe Maldonado 81. So I'll be posting any upcoming events and things like that other places might be able to find me. Love it. Love it. Yeah, I've on the show had some some some great poets and to be honest with you.
00:30:58
Speaker
Throughout my life, I've had more intense, deeper periods of reading poetry. And recently, over the last year, maybe a year or two with the show and having poets on, really exciting. I feel a vibrancy now at the point of the poets putting stuff out and wins this one and trying to get poets on.
00:31:22
Speaker
Bunkang Tuan early on and is a poet Joanna Valenti who's over in the New York City area, Sadie Dupuis and Elise Vercella and just like a lot of poets over time and a lot more recently poets and writers. So I just want to tell you on my side as a host, I really enjoy connecting with poetry because
00:31:54
Speaker
Some poetry like philosophy has a weird status, right? And I truly and deeply believe as far as the forms, I think philosophy ultimately is healing and helpful and exploratory. And I think poetry is so, so, so helpful.
00:32:25
Speaker
company that you're talking about, company, understanding, thinking, even sometimes the cadence of the words without meaning, the sounds of those words without the meaning. And there's not too many places you can go for that type of stuff. So love the philosophy, love the poetry here on something rather than nothing. And
00:32:48
Speaker
a real pleasure to be able to talk with you, Joe, and just learn about your poetry. And I always find it a kick to connect with the East Coast out here from the valleys of Oregon and being originally from
Closing Thoughts on Poetry's Power
00:33:07
Speaker
Pawtucket. I love a lot of representation in New York City. We should pull those episodes together, but I'm
00:33:15
Speaker
Thanks for coming on the show and everybody check out Joe Maldonado's poetry and maybe catch it live because poetry is live. It's the bomb. So just again, Wanda, thank you, Joe. And thank you for the poetry as well. Thank you for having me. Thanks again. Thanks, brother. This is something rather than nothing.