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More Medical Mysteries with Daniel Kalla
198 Plays5 months ago
This week, author Daniel Kalla joins Brook and Sarah to discuss his medical thrillers and other writing. Daniel Kalla is an internationally best-selling author of many novels, including Fit to Die, The Darkness and the Light, Lost Immunity, The Last High, and We All Fall Down. Kalla practices emergency medicine in Vancouver, British Columbia. You can find him at danielkalla.com or follow him on Twitter @danielkalla.
photo credit: Michael Bednar Photography
Discussed
Fit to Die (2023) Daniel Kalla
The Last High (2020) Daniel Kalla
High Society (2024) Daniel Kalla
Lost Immunity (2021) Daniel Kalla
The Far Side of the Sky (2012) Daniel Kalla
Robin Cook
Michael Cichton
Tess Gerritsen
For more information
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Transcript
This transcript is generated by a computer and there may be some mis-spellings and strange punctuation. We try to catch these before posting, but some things slip through.
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Transcript
Introduction of Daniel Calla
00:00:11
Speaker
Welcome to Clued in Mystery. I'm Sarah. And I'm Brooke, and we both love mystery. Hi Brooke. Hi Sarah, we have a special treat today, another interview episode. I'm really looking forward to speaking with Daniel Calla.
00:00:28
Speaker
Daniel Calla is an internationally best-selling author of many novels, including Fit to Die, The Darkness and the Light, Lost Immunity, The Last High, and We All Fall Down. Calla practices emergency medicine in Vancouver, British Columbia. You can visit him at danielcalla.com or follow him on Twitter at danielcalla. Welcome, Daniel. Great to be here, Sarah.
Making Medical Information Accessible
00:00:53
Speaker
So Daniel, medicine is of course a field that requires years and years of study. And recognizing that your readers may not have the same background as you, how do you distill the knowledge that you have so that it's accessible to your readers? Yeah, it's kind of a fine balance, isn't it? You know, you don't, you never want to talk down to the reader. You never want them to
00:01:16
Speaker
you know, to to make them feel like you're patronizing them, but you do want to get the important medical concepts or scientific concepts or whatever. Themes are behind some of my novels um in a way that that's understandable, even if you haven't gone to medical school or nursing school. So um I try to strike that balance and try to, sometimes I have to test it on readers, but I've been doing it so long, I think I've sort of got that you know, I found the kind of sweet spot. I also worked for years and years in an emergency room, so I'm constantly conveying medical information in layperson's terms. So I have a, I think, a sixth sense for, you know, how much technical information people can digest and still understand a concept.
Writing on Sensitive Topics
00:02:02
Speaker
But it is, ah it is kind of a separate art form when it comes to writing.
00:02:08
Speaker
ah You mentioned themes in your in your last answer there, Daniel. Readers will recognize some of the themes that you write about as coming from the headlines. How do you approach tackling what can be very sensitive issues in your writing? Yeah, I mean i think ah you know a people ask me if I use real cases or real you know patients And not only because of the confidentiality issue, also, because it just doesn't work. You know, everything you end up whenever I've tried to use a real life person as a character, they they've come across as a caricature because I over exaggerate them. So I never do that. But but also, I think it's just desperately important to be respectful. You know, you're talking about when I'm writing about pandemics, I'm talking about tragedies that affect people. You know, in my book of the darkness and the light, as you mentioned, touched on issues like suicidality and patient abuse and
00:03:02
Speaker
um you know they're They're very sensitive issues, but I think it's important to talk about you know these issues. There's this whole school of thought years ago that you shouldn't talk about suicidality because it makes people suicidal, but but people realize that's so not true. The opposite is true. It's it's better to tackle these issue issues head on. I wrote a but book, a you know Lost Immunity, that was all about you it was a thriller about what was appeared to be a vaccine goes bad, but in fact was you know a much deeper conspiracy to make a vaccine look bad. And it came out right at the time COVID and all the vaccine furor was happening.
Character and Viewpoint Development
00:03:41
Speaker
And you know I tried to balance it. I'm obviously very pro-vaccine and believe in the science of them, but I tried to understand the anti-vax vaccine hesitancy point of view. So anytime I tackle an issue, I try not just to give my point of view, I try to create characters that might be on both sides of an issue.
00:04:00
Speaker
My last book Fit to Die it was all about you know toxic diet pills and the the you know the toxic effect of of body image issues on social media. and and It's a very sensitive issue and it's a very complex issue. and so you know I tried to take it from the victim's point of view, from you know the detectives who are trying to track it down, from the doctors who are treating ah eating disorders and stuff, and just give a kind of broad perspective of of an issue, but at the end of the day, I'm writing fiction and trying to create you know good whodunnits and compelling characters and suspense, and so all of the non-fiction elements are just some background and you know some added detail for my readers, but they're not they and they're not meant to be the focus of the stories.
Balancing Medicine and Writing
00:04:51
Speaker
Now I'm super curious, how did you ever start writing? Because you obviously have an extremely busy life, you know, and consumed with, I'm sure your first profession as a physician. How did you start writing mysteries? Yeah, no, it's ah it's a great question. ah you know I come by medicine as the kind of family business. I'm a third-generation doctor. you know You can't swing a dead cat at one of my family reunions without hitting a bunch of doctors. its it's just you know it just My parents were both doctors and I love it, and you know but but it was sort of very easy, familiar territory to tread. But when I was growing up, I was passionate about storytelling and you know I pursued that
00:05:32
Speaker
I sort of stopped by the time I got to the university level and focused on sciences and getting to med school, but it was always you know there in my heart and in my mind. and and you know Once I got finished training and my first daughter was born, I cajoled some friends of mine to do a screenwriting course at a local university with me. and you know and Our first project became a script that got optioned that never went anywhere as your typical a failed option story. but um But it was enough of an incentive that it just gave me the bug. and and Then this became my favorite hobby, my favorite pastime, my favorite release. you know Working in emergency is fairly intense and fairly people-focused.
00:06:13
Speaker
And this this writing is a world I get to escape in on my own, and and I love it. I've never had a ah hobby that I'm as passionate about. That's fantastic.
Realism in Medical Fiction
00:06:30
Speaker
So how much creative license do you feel you have when writing medical mysteries, given that medicine is a science? That's a good question. um I feel I have a lot of creative of license, but I want to be authentic. And that's not just with medicine. Anything I write, I write realistic fiction, right? So anything that that I write, I want to pass the sniff test. So certainly the medicine should. I might invent you know I've invented new and you know new drugs in a story that that fit, you know but it was consistent with how drugs are developed and and and and sort of fit. In the same way, you know a plot twist. and ah and and you know I want the reader to believe, yeah, that was believable. She could have done it. He could have done it. like you know and and There were some some breadcrumbs along the way. This didn't come out from left field. like I believe very much when you're, my favorite thriller writers are,
00:07:25
Speaker
thriller writers who I find, in and mystery writers too, of course, who I find realistic and believable, that you believe the characters' motivations and actions, that you believe the plot twists that come, even if they, you know, hopefully they surprise you, but they have to be believable. And I get frustrated and in novels when, you know, when things are are seeming very, they create a world that I can relate to feel, and then suddenly it turns into what feels like science fiction or fantasy. It's so out of left field for me. So I'm very rigorous in in in my own mind about about staying consistent and true and justifiable both in the facts I provide and the story I create.
00:08:08
Speaker
I have to say that, uh, after I read the last high driving around here in Vancouver, looking at some of the houses thinking, huh, I wonder what's going on. You know, is someone cooking something up in, in, in one of these
Inspiration from Vancouver's Fentanyl Crisis
00:08:21
Speaker
houses? So you know, you you do a great job of creating that reality. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, that was, you know, four novels ago now, but that was an example of a story I was incredibly passionate about the theme of, you know, it was all about the fentanyl crisis. And in my city, Vancouver, I work, you know, as you know, we have a huge tragic crisis here. And I work in the epicenter of it at St. Paul's Hospital. And, you know, and so I really wanted to create a realistic world there and show
00:08:53
Speaker
and I had to add a lot to learn about the about the law enforcement side. I didn't know where these drugs were coming from. I didn't understand the gangs, and and so it was a crash. I had a friend who happened to be an undercover RCMP officer who worked in the drug world, and he gave me a crash course and all that. so I think that book's an example of some very authentic, you know and and even the whole premise of it, which starts with, a bunch of kids experimenting with what they think is ecstasy but dying at ah a party because it's a super potent form of fentanyl. Unfortunately, we've we've had so many and we just had a tragic case of of ah of of of ah of a colleagues of mine daughter who you know was and a bunch of kids who were lost to the same experience and it just it's heart wrenching.
00:09:39
Speaker
So what kind of investigations have you had to play a similar role to the one your character, Dr. Julie Reese, plays? She's a toxicologist. When we have real toxicologists, I have a couple of colleagues in my own department or one for sure who's a toxicologist. And theirs is an interesting world because they get consulted from all over the province about interesting poisonings. And sometimes the police will consult them and need expert forensic advice. So I don't you know ah police interview me about cases. I occasionally appear at court over things like assaults and stuff, but i Julie's world is a lot more exciting than mine or a chemistry when it comes to the criminal elements. So, um you know, or and she gets actually involved in and in investigations. So, but um yeah, but I you know i know i'm I'm only one degree or two degrees of separation removed from from that world.
00:10:36
Speaker
That's the wonderful thing about creating a sleuth is we get to give them, you know, all the cleverness and the exciting ah situations that ah maybe are just like you said, that one step away from reality.
Themes in 'High Society'
00:10:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, no's I mean, that's the the joy of what I do, right? These worlds. You know, my newest book that just came out last week, High Society, and I'm proud to say it made the National Globe and Mail bestseller lists today, um even in the general fiction. I've never had a book that's outside of the Canadian fiction that made it. and And it was about psychedelics and my fascination with psychedelics both, you know, I'm sort of
00:11:19
Speaker
Partly concerned with how prevalent they are, but I'm also a big believer in their huge potential and in issues of mental health. And i was I just so I took that was able to tackle this big theme and still create kind of, you know, a locked door mystery about a group of very damaged people working with a damaged psychiatrist to get over addictions. and you know in using psychedelics. and it Let me delve into the whole background, the history, which is fascinating of psychedelics. and it was It was just a joy to write and you know and a joy to explore. and I wouldn't have that if I didn't have the medical background, if I didn't have connections that could you know expert connections that could really take me to a deep level of understanding about about these substances. and But I love sharing that with readers and being able to
00:12:08
Speaker
you know, show this world and show potential of psychedelics and maybe to a degree the downside. But, um, so it was really, really fun medical series. That's great. And congratulations on making the list. Are we talking about books or TV or are we talking about? Yeah, hi there yeah we talked about books and TV.
00:12:37
Speaker
Because, you know, I'm terrible. You know, ever since Michael Crichton passed and stuff, I don't read a lot of medical thrillers, you know, and it's it's kind of a depressed, there aren't that many, you know, Tess Gerritsen is a famous medical thriller writer. There's not that many, um you know, like it used to be. Robin Cook was so big in the 70s and 80s. And so, yeah, I guess ah Tess Gerritsen, I'm trying to name of her protagonist, she writes a series that's really quite good, um that became a TV series too. Anyway, I'm just blanking on the name. But in terms of, you know, I don't even watch a lot of the, you know, I never got into, I never got into house. I never got into Grey's Anatomy. I did get into yeah ER when it first came out. It was so relatively accurate for a medical series like the, and so I enjoyed that and I enjoyed some of the characters and personalities, but
00:13:26
Speaker
I don't know. I think if you talk to a lot of people like at lawyers, I don't think often read a ton of legal thrillers. I think doctors don't tend to focus on medical thrillers. We we get to live the world
Broadening Genre: Beyond Medical Thrillers
00:13:37
Speaker
enough. so yeah and you know And more and more as a writer, I'm trying to branch out and be more of a psychological thriller writer. you know And i've I've written some historical novels, and I i don't like to, even though obviously i my gimmick is medicine in a lot of my background. um you know In fact, I just handed a manuscript that doesn't have any doctor or protagonists in it. it's
00:14:00
Speaker
It's got a little bit of medicine as an aside, but um the doctors are very minor characters in this story. I consider myself more of a thriller writer than just a medical thriller writer, but yeah, I don't off i don't tend to focus on on medical series, to be honest with you. That's interesting. So you mentioned writing a historical novel. What time period is that set in?
Venture into Historical Fiction
00:14:26
Speaker
was actually a trilogy It was set in World War II. It was about was this incredible story I heard about these and Jews in Germany and Austria who escaped to Shanghai and and you know survived the war under harrowing circumstances. But Shanghai had to be the most interesting city of the 20th century.
00:14:45
Speaker
that was you know run by and taken over by so many different powers even during World War II. And everybody was there, from Nazis to Communists to Japanese to Chinese. to And it was about oppressed people, both the the Jews who ended up in a ghetto there and and the Chinese who were living under the thumb first of the British and the American and then the Japanese. so um yeah it was just a it was I'd never planned to write a historical novel, but I was so fascinated by this story, and I couldn't find other than sort of largely self-published memoirs. I couldn't find anything about it. So I wrote this trilogy. The first book was called the Far Side of the Sky. and
00:15:30
Speaker
I'm very proud and it wasn't my most career commercially successful, maybe one of my more critically successful efforts, but um it was just, it was a joy to write and I had no intention of ever writing historical fiction.
00:15:46
Speaker
I think I'm hearkening back to my earlier question with your busy life. You know, you mentioned you're a parent. um Where do you find time to write and how do you write? Like what's your process?
00:15:57
Speaker
Well, you guys are, I mean, as you know yourselves, everybody has their own different different process. And now I'm hearing this terms of pantsers and planners. Have you heard this? People who, I'm very much a... You know, a freestyle writer in the sense that it's all about the idea for me. It's never about the time. If I have momentum and ideas, I can always find the time. um You know, I'm lucky enough to work part time in the emergency room. And, you know, even when I was working full time,
00:16:30
Speaker
and it's a It's a shift work job, so I would have times during the day. I do find I write better now, just as I'm getting older in the morning. But other than that, I have no writing
Writing Process and Momentum
00:16:41
Speaker
routine at all. If if I ah start with a pretty basic skeletal outline for the most part, and then start writing the story, and when the characters start coming to life for me, and the the um ah the plot elements start to fall into place you know to set up whatever I'm trying to achieve, then the writing generally takes off. you know I'm a pretty quick writer in the sense it often takes me months to write the first 100 pages, you know like two or three months, but but usually I write the second half of a book in under a month, sometimes in two or three weeks, you know of just intense writing, like 30 or 40,000 words. so
00:17:27
Speaker
That's great. i I love the idea of freestyle writing. Yeah, that's a good term. How about you two? What's your approach? Oh, we're both, we we call it discovery writers. So like you, you know, a rough kind of idea of what's going to happen. And, um, I, I struggle with the first, probably getting the first 5,000, 10,000 words out and then that momentum builds and I can, I can carry on. Yeah. Yeah. We're very similar in our, in our methods. That's great. Yeah. It sounds like you guys collaborate on on your, at least ideas or stuff. i'm I'm guessing, or am I just assuming wrong? No, you're absolutely right. We actually just started, uh, co-writing a book that we're sharing with people as we write it to, uh, just add some extra pressure to ourselves. Wow. Good for you. And that's putting yourself out there. Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:24
Speaker
But it's amazing, you know, when I talk to people about writing, when I talk to students, like, and yeah I cannot emphasize enough, you know, apart from the fact, as you both know, you just have to write. You're never going to be good at writing without doing a lot of it. But but momentum is such a, you know, incredible element in in in storytelling. and And people feel the momentum, the the urgency that you, I truly believe the urgency that you invest into writing that novel comes across to the reader later when they're reading it. And I just, ah you know, the the beginning is, I think for most people, always the hardest, but it's incredible once that dam bursts and, you know, that incredible feeling when you almost can't keep up and can't type fast enough to keep up with the story is, to me, the sign that the story is working. Yeah, I would i would agree with that. So thank you. This has been so much fun to speak with you, Daniel.
Engagement and Availability
00:19:20
Speaker
um Where can our readers find you?
00:19:23
Speaker
Yeah, i mean they can they can go through the website, as you said, danielcala dot.com. My new novel is now out um and pretty widely available in stores, high society. so But yeah, love to hear it back from readers and through the website they can call it or on social media through Instagram or Facebook. I'm less active on Twitter or X or whatever the hell Elon Musk is calling it. but yeah Well, thank you so much, Dan. And thank you listeners for joining us today on Clued In Mystery. I'm Brooke. And I'm Sarah. And we both love mystery.
00:20:00
Speaker
Clued In Mystery is written and produced by Brooke Peterson and Sarah M. Stephen. Music is by Shane Ivers. If you liked what you heard, please consider telling a friend, leaving a review, or subscribing with your favorite podcast listening app. Visit our website at cluedinmystery.com to sign up for our newsletter, The Clued In Chronicle, or to join our paid membership, The Clued In Cartel. We're on social media at Clued In Mystery.