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[Re-release] Magic and Mystery with Tom Mead
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This is a replay of an episode that was originally released on October 17, 2023.
Brook and Sarah are joined by author Tom Mead to continue their discussion about magic and mysteries.
Discussed and mentioned
Death and the Conjuror (2022) Tom Mead
The Murder Wheel (2023) Tom Mead
The Best Mystery Stories of the Year 20 21 (2021) Lee Child (editor)
Knives Out (2019) Netflix
Death in Paradise (2011-2023) BBC
Jonathan Creek (1997-2016) BBC
Gigi Pandian Secret Staircase Mysteries
Death from a Top Hat (1938) Clayton Rawson
The Hangman’s Handyman (1942) Hake Talbot
Rim of the Pit (1944) Hake Talbot
“Murders in the Rue Morgue” (1841) Edgar Allan Poe
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For a full episode transcript, visit https://cluedinmystery.com/re-release-magic-and-mystery-with-tom-mead/
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Transcript
Introduction and Announcements
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, it's Sarah. Brooke and I are taking a short break from recording new episodes to catch up on our reading lists and plan for the next season of Clued in Mystery. While we're off, we are re-releasing a few of our favorite episodes.
00:00:12
Speaker
We hope you enjoy.
00:00:24
Speaker
Welcome
Guest Introduction: Tom Mead
00:00:25
Speaker
to Clued in Mystery. I'm Sarah. And I'm Brooke, and we both love mystery. Brooke. Good morning, Sarah. Well, it's morning for us, but for our guest today, who's in the UK, it's already the afternoon.
00:00:40
Speaker
ah Today, we're continuing the conversation that we started last week about magic in mystery with author Tom Mead. Welcome, Tom. Thank you very much. Thank you both for having me.
00:00:54
Speaker
Tom Mead is a UK author specializing in locked room mysteries. He's a member of the Crime Writers Association and the International Thriller Writers Organization. He's the author of Death and the Conjurer and the sequel, The Murder Wheel.
00:01:09
Speaker
His stories have appeared in Ellery Queen's Mystery Magazine, Alfred Hitchcock Mystery Magazine, and Mystery Weekly, among others. Several of his pieces have also been anthologized, including Heatwave in the Best Mystery Stories of the Year of 2021, which was edited by Lee Child.
00:01:29
Speaker
His debut novel, Death and the Conjurer, was selected as one of the top 10 Best Mysteries of the Year by Publishers Weekly. So it's just a thrill to have you, Tom. Thank you. Yes, I'm delighted to be here. Thank you.
Resurgence of Locked Room Mysteries
00:01:45
Speaker
So we both have enjoyed ah your books, Death and the Conjurer and The Murder Wheel, and you specialize in writing these locked room mysteries.
00:01:56
Speaker
Why do you think these were so popular in the Golden Age and actually seem to be making a comeback? Well, I think the locked room mystery is overall the most um challenging, exciting and all round interesting subgenre really of detective fiction.
00:02:17
Speaker
um For those who don't know the genre, it's a kind of a subspecies of the conventional puzzle mystery, the whodunit. ah But the question here in A Locturum Mystery is not just who committed a crime, but how physically the crime was committed.
00:02:37
Speaker
There's always the appearance that a criminal has done something physically impossible, whether that is vanished into thin air or ah crossed a patch of snow without leaving a footprint.
00:02:52
Speaker
um the The locked room or or the the impossible crime story has got a lot in common with with stage illusion, because there's often a sense of something uncanny or something supernatural at work, whether it's ah whether it's a phantom assailant or or something similar.
00:03:13
Speaker
But there's always a rational, earthly explanation. I think the appeal lies in the intellectual challenge. I think that's why the genre was so popular in the 20s and 30s, because it's really it really comes down to a battle wits between the writer and the reader. It's a it's a kind of it's a game of intellectual cat and mouse.
00:03:38
Speaker
And um ah yes, the golden age, which is a term that typically refers to the the period between the World Wars ah when there was a real boom in that particular type of puzzle mystery.
00:03:55
Speaker
um I think so that so the 20s and 30s really saw just a real boom in that particular type of puzzle um where it was about... um engaging the reader ah on a on a surface level, but also on an intellectual level. So it' was about presenting an exciting story, but also a puzzle to be solved and and a game to be played.
00:04:20
Speaker
and So as for the the resurgence of the locked room, and it's it's been it's been in the works for a while now, but I think People are being drawn towards more complex puzzle plots, again, thanks to certain mainstream hits like Knives Out.
00:04:40
Speaker
um ah Here in the UK, Death in Paradise is a very big show, um which makes use of the puzzle plot, but also the the seeming impossibility. So it's just great to see all these new writers embracing the um ah all the things that made the Golden Age great.
Magic and Mystery Writing
00:05:02
Speaker
So in your stories, Tom, you reveal some of the mechanics behind a few magic tricks. How much time did you spend researching popular illusions from the time period that you write about?
00:05:15
Speaker
Well, i am I am fascinated by magic tricks. In other words, they the mechanics of magic tricks, so the the physical gimmicks used by stage magicians. and The murder wheel ah features a ah the seemingly impossible materialisation of a ah corpse on stage during a magic show. So to me, that was a kind of ultimate crossover between my my interests in mystery and magic.
00:05:47
Speaker
But I do a lot of reading of non-fiction and historical works about the the practice of stage magic and the history of it. and And often that will stimulate ideas for ah for the mysteries that that I'm writing.
00:06:05
Speaker
um the The Victorian era was was a time when stage magic really came into its own. There were many tricks, many gimmicks, many large-scale illusions that that were developed during that time that would ah become commonplace in the 20th century and would become standard theatrical practice.
00:06:32
Speaker
But during the sort of late Victorian era, these these kinds of illusions were new and they were still being experimented with. And um so I think ah that is...
00:06:44
Speaker
if you like the the golden age of stage magic when um uh when tricks when illusions and effects like pepper's ghost and things like that things um were were being devised and experimented in in public for the first time so um So I love to read about that kind of thing and think about how I could use that in a mystery plot, whether it whether it be as a ah red herring, something to um send the reader in the wrong direction, or whether it's an actual intrinsic part of the of the mystery itself.
00:07:29
Speaker
and But I'm also fascinated by the the theory behind stage magic, so how tricks work properly. in in a more abstract sense, how they work on the brain, how, um as audiences, we are um guided to look in the wrong direction and the the kinds of, the gaps in our perception that magicians exploit, and ah which to me are similar to to those that mystery writers exploit. In both cases, you're...
00:08:06
Speaker
ah you're you're sending an audience in the wrong direction. You're working a trick in front of them and you're, via misdirection, you're making sure they don't spot how the trick works until you're ready to to show them. So, ah so yeah, um my writing is largely...
00:08:30
Speaker
ah suggested by the the the general reading that I do in the about magic and about magic theory, about the practical side, but also the theoretical side.
00:08:42
Speaker
Is it a no-no to reveal some of those secrets behind those tricks? Yeah. um ah For magicians, yes, definitely.
00:08:52
Speaker
um But am fascinated by how tricks are done. And I think that's part of the fun. That's something that's always interested me. um But then I'm not a magician. I don't claim to be a magician.
00:09:07
Speaker
um so ah um So I'm quite happy to give away tricks because I think... ah Well, it has a natural and appeal to, you know, human curiosity. You want to know how something is done.
00:09:23
Speaker
But also, that's the difference between magic and the locked room mystery. In the locked room, you have to give away the solution at the end. You have to explain how it was done.
00:09:35
Speaker
um And the trick, ah it becomes ah question of... the providing satisfaction to the reader a satisfactory conclusion if uh if the gimmick is is too ordinary too prosaic and uh and dull then uh the the reader is inevitably left feeling shortchanged so i think um uh whereas magicians are forbidden to show how a trick is done.
00:10:07
Speaker
With the the Mystery Writer, it's about... um You are... ah laying out the solution to the puzzle, but at the same time, you you you're, you're, you're trying to come up with the most colorful, exciting and, and intriguing solution as you can.
Crafting Illusions in Mysteries
00:10:27
Speaker
um i mean, i often talk about ah retrospective inevitability as a, as a feature of a good um mystery solution.
00:10:38
Speaker
This idea that your reader will kick themselves because they didn't spot the the trick that was hidden in plain sight. um And as a reader, that...
00:10:51
Speaker
Personally, that is ah that is one of the the great joys of finding a good mystery, is when you see how you've been tricked and you see how the illusion was worked by the writer. And I love that.
00:11:06
Speaker
ah That's what I'm trying to do with these Spectre books, to give readers that same feeling. So um so it in some respects, it's like a magic trick, a magic show.
00:11:20
Speaker
but ah because you inevitably have to lift the curtain at the end and reveal how it was all done, that is ah that's where the the two ah the two differ Yeah, that's fascinating. I love all the metaphors that you weave in to the stories about the similarities of ah the magic show and and mystery fiction.
00:11:46
Speaker
um In your latest book, The Murder Wheel, your magician sleuth is Joseph Spector, and he explains that there has been a, quote, trick within a trick.
00:11:57
Speaker
um Would you say that that's essentially what's going on in all locked room mysteries? Yeah. Yes, 100%.
00:12:06
Speaker
my My approach as as a writer of Locked Room Mysteries, and the thing that I i really appreciate as a reader, is the different levels of illusion and mystification at work so there can be physical tricks as in clever gimmicks used to for example lock a door from the outside that kind of thing but then there are also more abstract tricks which involve uh subtle placement of clues in plain sight
00:12:42
Speaker
um reinterpretation of a line of dialogue which takes on sudden significance when there ah when placed in a fresh context um also ah misdirection and deliberate obfuscation concerning identities and disguise, things like that.
00:13:03
Speaker
um And I think the best examples of the genre are the ones where all of those different levels of illusion come into play at once. ah For me, the the the writer that really open ah opened my eyes to the to the the scale and the true potential of the Locturian mystery is John Dixon Carr.
00:13:25
Speaker
um He was one of the... he was ah one of the greatest authors of the golden age. I would place him ah up there with Agatha Christie, Ellery Queen, all the greats.
00:13:39
Speaker
But he was the acknowledged master of the lockdown mystery, ah not just because he was so prolific in that genre, but because he was so imaginative, so creative.
00:13:51
Speaker
um And no two of his books were, are the same he didn't recycle or reuse tricks in the way that some golden age authors did um and um and i mentioned clue placement he was uh agatha christie was uh a true master of that but so was car and uh so was ellery queen um the the uh the placement of clues uh the uh different variety of clues um And the playfulness of some of them, I think yeah that's all, i think it all kind of feeds into the one entity. And really, ah in a locked room mystery, you want ah ah you want all of that. you want to You want the fun, but you want the atmosphere, the sense of mystique.
00:14:44
Speaker
um But at the same time, a kind of tongue in cheek humour to it.
00:14:50
Speaker
That's great. and And just building on that kind of idea of the overlap between magic and mystery and fun, having a magician as a sleuth is ah is a great character.
00:15:01
Speaker
so who are some of your fictional favorites, either ah contemporary or or some from the golden age? Well, yeah.
Influences and Inspirations
00:15:12
Speaker
when i When it comes to magician sleuths, grew up watching the BBC show Jonathan Creek, where the amateur detective is a man who designs illusions for a a professional stage conjurer.
00:15:30
Speaker
So that show was great because it it had a lot of humour. It was amusing. and But at the same time, it featured very complex fair play puzzle plots in the golden age tradition so all the clues were there and there was great ingenuity in the plotting so it was uh that was a nice um kind of entry-level uh locked room mystery experience when i was younger um it was a great way to kind of discover the genre um
00:16:02
Speaker
ah In terms of contemporary writers and magician sleuths, my friend Gigi Pandian, who writes um ah she writes several different series, but her um secret staircase mysteries are particularly interesting.
00:16:22
Speaker
good in my opinion because they ah they they feature impossibilities, impossible crimes, locked room mysteries, magic tricks, all kinds of fun things.
00:16:32
Speaker
um And her detective, Tempest Raj, is a is a magician. So I would definitely recommend the the Secret Staircase Mysteries.
00:16:46
Speaker
But going back to the Golden Age, the archetype of the Golden Age sleuth, that this idea of the amateur detective who's roped in by police or the authorities to investigate because they have a particular insight or skill deduction.
00:17:02
Speaker
um I think it lends itself naturally to ah having a magician or someone who specializes in illusions as a detective. um Clayton Rawson wrote a great series featuring a magician as detective.
00:17:18
Speaker
ah who is known as the Great Merlini. He first appears in ah Death from a Top Hat, which is a superb Doctor of Mystery, but also fascinating um social document, if you like, about stage magic during that period. It's got so many references and... um you know, little in-jokes and things concerning stage magic and the theatrical life at that time. Because Clayton Rawson, as well as a a mystery novelist, he he was a magician himself.
00:17:55
Speaker
um And he was he was a friend of John Dixon Carr, who I've already mentioned. So, yes, the Merlini series is is particularly interesting. ah For someone like me, certainly, who who who loves magic, but who's also fascinated by, you know, the clever complex plotting um and the the misdirection, etc.
00:18:17
Speaker
But so there's another author from that era who ah he um he was a professional magician. himself and he only wrote a couple of novels but they're both really brilliant his name was Henning Nelms that was his real name He wrote under the pseudonym of Haik Talbot.
00:18:45
Speaker
And he wrote two books, which are truly fantastic. and The first one was called The Hangman's Handyman. That is that's a good one. ah But then the second one, The Rim of the Pit, is ah his absolute masterpiece. It's a perfect masterpiece.
00:19:00
Speaker
cocktail of of illusion and atmosphere where a group of people are are um stranded in a ah snowbound cabin and and they find themselves um ah assailed by seemingly supernatural forces but of course because it's a fair play, locked room mystery there there is a rational explanation for it all and it unfurls incredibly satisfactorily so um So I definitely recommend seeking out Haig Talbot.
00:19:33
Speaker
um Like I say, there are only two novels and the detective is not a magician. But because Henning Nelms himself was a magician and wrote many interesting works about the practice of stage magic, I think it still qualifies.
00:19:52
Speaker
Those are fantastic recommendations, Tom. And those titles by Tolbert. His titles are fantastic too. Most definitely, yes. Room of the Pit gives you a kind of a hint of something otherworldly going on, something supernatural, something demonic.
00:20:11
Speaker
um And the stories are really ah crammed with atmosphere. John Dixon Carr was also... superb at creating an atmosphere of ah kind of creeping dread and eeriness and the hint that maybe there is something supernatural going on.
00:20:30
Speaker
um I think that comes from Edgar Allan Poe, the the kind of gothic tradition, which um ah because poe ostensibly wrote that the first locked room mystery, Murders in the Rue Morgue, and he was a great innovator of detective fiction generally.
00:20:50
Speaker
um But his fictional detective, Auguste Dupin, was a huge influence on Conan Doyle's characterisation of Sherlock Holmes, which in turn influenced the Golden Age. So I think there's kind of a thread of the gothic um and ah a... um you know, um a sense of atmosphere, a kind of ah vivid, lurid, occasionally gruesome atmosphere to these stories, which which really sets them apart, I think. And that that's part of the appeal for me.
00:21:28
Speaker
And I definitely sense that in your work too, Tom. You have that same atmosphere, the feeling of you know ah questioning what's really going on. Is there something supernatural? You accomplished that really well.
00:21:43
Speaker
um I think that we've already answered our final question. So I'm going to go off script just a little bit and just ask you what you're working on next.
Upcoming Works and Contact Information
00:21:53
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. That's a ah great question. i'm actually between um books at the moment. I have finished book three in my Spectre series.
00:22:04
Speaker
It is called Cabaret Macabre and it comes out next summer. again published by Mysterious Press and I am about to begin work on book four so so like I say I'm between the projects but I'm currently stockpiling ideas for the next one that's great we're looking forward to it yes thank you very much I hope you'll enjoy it and so Tom where can our listeners find you Oh, yes, I'm on all the social media ah at Tom Mead Author. So I do ah Facebook, I find is a great way to um engage with readers directly.
00:22:47
Speaker
ah But I'm also on ah Twitter, X, whatever you want to call it. I recently joined Instagram and um I'm also on Blue Sky. If any of your readers if any of your listeners ah are on Blue Sky, I'm on there. um And my website is tommeadauthor.com.
00:23:08
Speaker
That's wonderful. Thank you again for joining us, Tom. This has been such a great, I feel feel like we have like an overview of um love of the history of magic and mystery. And this is going to be so worthwhile, I know, to our listeners.
00:23:22
Speaker
My pleasure. Thank you both for having me. And thank you all for listening today on Clued in Mystery. I'm Brooke. And I'm Sarah. And we both love mystery. Clued in Mystery is produced by Brooke Peterson and Sarah M. Stephen.
00:23:36
Speaker
Music is by Shane Ivers at SilvermanSound.com. Visit us online at CluedinMystery.com or social media at Clued in Mystery. If you liked what you heard, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or telling your friends.