Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
White Collar Crime (part 1)
148 Plays14 days ago
Fraud, money laundering, and Ponzi schemes can make for fascinating mysteries. In this episode, Brook and Sarah discuss white collar crime in fiction and in real life.
Discussed and mentioned
White Collar Crime (1949) Edwin H. Sutherland
Catch Me If You Can (1980) Frank Abagnale Jr. and Stan Redding
Catch Me If You Can (2002 film)
Owning Mahowney (2003 film)
Panama Papers - The Laundromat (2019 film)
A Death in Cryptoland (podcast about Gerald Cotten and Quadriga)
American Greed (television series - MSNBC)
Red Team Blues (2023) Cory Doctorow
Antique Hunter's Guide to Murder (2024) C.L. Miller
The Water Rat of Wanchai (2011) Ian Hamilton
The Accountant (2016 film)
The Firm (1991) John Grisham
Margin Call (2011 film)
Boiler Room (2000 film)
Erin Brockovich (2000 film)
The Missing American (2020) Kwei Quartey
The Talented Mr. Ripley (1955) Patricia Highsmith
Tracers in the Dark (2022) Andy Greenberg
For more information
Instagram: @cluedinmystery
Contact us: hello@cluedinmystery.com
Music: Signs To Nowhere by Shane Ivers – www.silvermansound.com
Sign up for our newsletter: https://cluedinmystery.com/clued-in-chronicle/
Join the Clued in Cartel for as little as $12 USD/year: https://cluedinmystery.com/clued-in-cartel/
For a full episode transcript, visit https://cluedinmystery.com/white-collar-crime/
Recommended
![[re-release] Dorothy L. Sayers image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=112,quality=85/image-files/61e1c276e3ec42007857cff9/0c9f0c0f-65b5-423a-a129-9414d2b8819e.jpg)
![[Re-release] Christie's Characters: Harley Quin image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=112,quality=85/image-files/61e1c276e3ec42007857cff9/19b66ded-f629-44f5-8280-f8a4afd4697c.jpg)
![[Re-release] Magic and Mystery with Tom Mead image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=112,quality=85/image-files/61e1c276e3ec42007857cff9/bf587b93-b2a8-41f6-af97-4772e2c0caa2.jpg)
![[Re-release] Celebrity Authors image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=112,quality=85/image-files/61e1c276e3ec42007857cff9/6bf85c27-5b4b-472c-9f00-1aceb11c14f7.jpg)
Transcript
Introduction to White-Collar Crime
00:00:11
Speaker
Welcome to Clued in Mystery. I'm Sarah. And I'm Brooke, and we both love mystery. Brooke. Hi, Sarah. I am so ready to talk about another subgenre in the mystery space with you today.
00:00:29
Speaker
We're going to be talking about white-collar crime today. And when I say that, Brooke, are you thinking of accountants and lawyers and expecting the stories to be pretty boring?
00:00:42
Speaker
Yeah, possibly that is a thing, right? All the guys in suits and yeah, numbers could get boring. It could, but often the stories involve international travel, almost always involve large sums of money, and intrigue.
Historical Context and Sutherland's Influence
00:01:00
Speaker
We typically see fewer situations where the main character stumbles onto a body and must piece together what happened. Instead, the sleuth is often following a paper trail that leads to corruption, conspiracy, or fraud.
00:01:14
Speaker
Financially motivated crimes are not new. Many of the stories that we read from the golden age of mystery involve an inheritance, for example. But the crimes themselves usually involve death and take place in dining rooms, libraries, or outdoors, rather than in boardrooms.
00:01:30
Speaker
The term white-collar crime appeared in a 1949 book by the same name by sociologist Edwin h Sutherland. In it, Sutherland presented his theory that crimes like fraud and embezzlement that are committed in the workplace by wealthier people were overlooked by police who focused investigations on poorer criminals.
00:01:51
Speaker
Modern day mysteries with financial elements tend to involve money laundering, insider trading, and pyramid schemes. And although the stories are frequently free from death, the crimes themselves can be just as impactful for the victims.
Modern Mysteries and Technology's Role
00:02:04
Speaker
Technology, especially in stories that are set in present day, ah plays a significant role. Think of cybercrime or email phishing schemes. And sometimes we end up cheering for the crook.
00:02:17
Speaker
Think of the story of Frank Abagnale and the film Catch Me If You Can. So today, Brooke, we're going to be talking about white collar crime and how we see it in mysteries. Thank you, Sarah. That was great. And this is going to be a really fun discussion. I especially loved learning where this term came from. you know That wasn't something that I thought of researching, but ah that there's actually clear back in 1949, book with that title.
00:02:44
Speaker
And I thought that that was a great point that um sometimes police officers, law enforcement overlook these crimes. um And I think some of that actually has to do with the fact that these criminals um kind of hide behind this ah veneer of professionalism and respectability.
Real-Life Cases and Fictional Portrayals
00:03:07
Speaker
i think I think the perception for Sutherland at the time, ah you know, when he was doing his research, was that um police hold people who are wealthier in a higher regard and, you know, don't want to step on their toes. or And I think there was also some police corruption as well.
00:03:30
Speaker
We're led to believe, even though this is completely false, that we should trust or we could trust successful people. And so it creates this kind of shield for them.
00:03:41
Speaker
and And as you say, in some of those instances, the police are involved. And we've read stories that have that component in them. Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:03:53
Speaker
When thinking about this episode and the different ways we see white collar crime in mysteries, you know, I thought about a film from early from 2003, it's called Mahoney.
00:04:08
Speaker
it's called owning mahoney And it's about bank fraud and it ah stars Philip Seymour Hoffman. And it's a Canadian story, actually. He was, think, with CIBC, which is one of our and major banks here in Canada.
00:04:25
Speaker
And he was he had a gambling addiction and was creating loans and falsifying paperwork to fuel his gambling addiction and it's quite a sad film because you just see this dissent that um uh that the main character of Mahoney spirals as his addiction takes over for more of his life and he makes worse and worse decisions at work but the you know the film is about the investigation to uncover all of this fraud that's been going on
00:04:58
Speaker
Right. Yeah, I think that that is another component of these stories is many times the white collar criminal is, I mean, they're definitely doing something shady. They're earning money fraudulently or they're, you know, they're working the system somehow. I mean, you mentioned the Frank Abagnale Jr. story, which is one of my favorite movies.
00:05:19
Speaker
um It was working really well for a while. And then things just kind of spiral out of control. And that's sometimes when we see this turn from ah strictly white collar crime to perhaps there's like a murder that has to happen in order to try to keep them safe.
00:05:39
Speaker
Yeah. and And, you know, unfortunately, that's true in real
Escalation from Fraud to Murder
00:05:43
Speaker
life. So um one of the things that I looked into a little bit to to prepare for today's episode was the Panama Papers, which was, um if you'll remember, in I think it was in 2016 when all of this data was released and it detailed large sums of money moving around to avoid tax and facilitate political corruption and launder money.
00:06:08
Speaker
And it was all kind of centered with a law firm that was based in Panama. And that's where the name Panama Papers came from. um and And there were real world implications for this. And actually, i didn't know this, two journalists were murdered because of their reporting related to ah information in the Panama Papers.
00:06:29
Speaker
Wow, that is so interesting, Sarah. And it reminds me of the fact that much of the true crime that ah people listen to on maybe podcasts or read in books, a lot of them start out in the white collar world, like online scams or um who's somebody committing somewhat minor frauds in their community, but then ah things spiral out of control. And I've heard it said that when white collar crime escalates into somebody dying, then it's red collar crime.
00:07:05
Speaker
Well, you know, Brooke, as I was thinking about this episode, I realized, because I know I've said before, I'm i'm not really into true crime. I'm actually into true white collar crime because i've I've listened to more white collar crime podcasts than I have the, you know, serial killer or missing people or or um the other type of of true crime podcasts.
00:07:28
Speaker
There was one that was done a little while ago about um Gerald Cotton, who a, a Single-handedly, he was running a Bitcoin exchange ah that turned out to be a Ponzi scheme, which was only realized to be the case when he died suddenly and nobody could access their money.
00:07:50
Speaker
And there was this huge investigation, um you know some suspicion that perhaps he hadn't ah died of an illness, which was the original reporting, and and know this was an exit scam for him.
00:08:06
Speaker
um But that was that that was a fascinating story, i think in around 2019. Unfortunately, I think there's a lot more white collar crime that happens that we see in the real world than than murder.
Personal Experiences and Common Scams
00:08:20
Speaker
hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've mentioned before, I think on the show that one of my favorite ah true crime television shows is American Greed. And there again, we're talking white collar crime.
00:08:31
Speaker
um So I would agree. I think that that's a bigger draw for me for for true crime. And might it might possibly be because of that point that you just made about there's these real world fears that are tied up in it. Like, what if I lose all my savings? What if I you know, invest in some scam and get taken and my retirement is gone. and What if I am trusting someone that I shouldn't just because they seem, you know, slick and put together?
00:09:01
Speaker
i mean, those are things that we really worry about, especially when we're dealing with our life savings, for instance. Very true. We are far more unlikely to stumble across a body than we are to experience a scam. I mean, we get, you know, email, phishing emails daily, right? People offering emails.
00:09:24
Speaker
millions of dollars if ah if they can just funnel it through our bank accounts, ah you know, and then you get get to keep some of that money, you know, that the offers from foreign princes or foreign dignitaries that we all know not to click on those links.
00:09:41
Speaker
Right. Or something even far more boring. I mean, I think that was what, two weeks ago, Sarah. And when we got on to talk, I was actually excited because you know this topic was on our minds. And I said, I was just the victim of a phishing scam because ah I had a very legitimate looking email that said that one of my accounts had been hacked and I just needed to click on this link and solve the day. And it was completely false. And so I definitely could have fallen into one of these traps where it wasn't going to ruin my whole life, but it was probably going to be a tremendous hassle. And i I probably would have lost a few hundred dollars.
00:10:19
Speaker
No, exactly.
Fictional Accounts in Literature and Film
00:10:20
Speaker
So let's turn, Brooke, to some of the fictional white collar crime that um and we may have read or watched.
00:10:30
Speaker
I recently finished a book by Cory Doctorow and actually finished a couple of of his books. um He has a main character. He's a forensic accountant in his 60s.
00:10:44
Speaker
His name is Martin Hench, and the books are about him um investigating high value white collar crime. And his thing, I think, is that he he keeps 25% of what he recovers. And, you know, if he's recovering ah a couple million dollars, that's that's not a bad payday for him.
00:11:09
Speaker
Oh, that sounds like a great series, Sarah. I, just like you said that you enjoy probably out of any true crime, white collar, you know, stories.
00:11:20
Speaker
I find that this premise is one of my favorites for mysteries too, because it's ah so, like we said, relatable. And I just recently read Antique Hunter's Guide to Murder.
00:11:32
Speaker
And this is 2024 release by c l Miller. And So the premise of this is that there are actually these antique hunters who go out in the world and try to locate these antiques that have been stolen, antiquities and antiques.
00:11:50
Speaker
And that used to be the main character's job. And um a new crime draws her back into the world of antique hunting. And it was just a ah really great experience.
00:12:02
Speaker
kind of different setup. And although you get that um murder mystery, the reason why the crime is happening is all based in, you know, a financial gameplay.
00:12:16
Speaker
Oh, that sounds so good. And I think I'm going to have to add that to my um my reading list, Brooke. Yeah, you won't be disappointed. It's really good.
00:12:30
Speaker
Another series featuring a forensic accountant is by Ian Hamilton, and his main character is Ava Lee. And she is a ah Canadian accountant.
00:12:43
Speaker
um She travels around the world following the money trail. um Again, like ah the other one I mentioned, Martin Hench, you know, is dealing with large sums of money But she's trained in martial arts and sometimes gets a little bit physical, which is a bit different than the than the other series.
00:13:01
Speaker
um But equally good. I really enjoy that series as well.
00:13:09
Speaker
Yeah, that sounds great. Well, speaking of more physical, the next one that I had to mention is the same. So I was thinking of the movie The Accountant. It's a 2016 movie starring Ben Affleck as this ah mathematic savant. And he is an accountant, and he tracks down this big scam that's going on in this corporation.
00:13:31
Speaker
And one thing that I think that this movie really highlights is so a trend in these stories where the sleuth character, because we don't really have a detective, but we have some character who stumbles upon what is really going on.
00:13:45
Speaker
And they're often put in this terrible dilemma about what to do next because if they... turn the bad guys in people get hurt. If they don't turn the bad guys in people get hurt. And so they usually are in a no-win situation. It's just a really satisfying um predicament to see characters in.
00:14:06
Speaker
Oh, I haven't seen that, Brooke. i think there's a sequel coming out maybe this year. Oh, that's great. I hadn't heard. I'll i will definitely check that out.
00:14:20
Speaker
um Another I thought of was The Firm, which yeah is the 1991 book by John Grisham, and then it was a film with Tom Cruise later in the 90s. I think we talked about that one when we talked about legal thrillers, um but it involves a lot of you know money laundering and and criminal activity that you know, we cheer for ah the main character because he comes up with a really clever way of saving the day um and and um saving himself.
00:15:00
Speaker
Right. when So when he's put in that dilemma, he comes up with this really clever solution. Yeah. The firm is ah as a great representation of this subgenre.
00:15:13
Speaker
Another one of my ah favorite movies in this category ah was Margin Call. It was 2011 film, and it was fictionalized take on the 2008 financial crash. And it's like the 24 hours that led up to the you know the stock market crash and it these sort of like intern or lower level stock guys are all seeing, they're working late and they're watching what's happening and they're seeing what's about to take place. And so they have these decisions to make. Like, do they notify people? Because there was potential money to be made that day. So do they kind of work the system? Do they tip off their friends and family about removing stocks? It's just a really fascinating story
00:16:03
Speaker
predicament that they're in. And this has Kevin Spacey and Demi Moore, and it it's a star-studded cast and really great, great movie.
00:16:14
Speaker
Well, and, you know, I think we we mentioned earlier that because there are real lots of real life examples of white collar crime, I think um ah Hollywood often draws inspiration from it.
00:16:29
Speaker
um And I don't remember if Boiler Room, that film, was based on a true story or um just inspired by various examples. But I think that's another example of I think they were pumping stocks for companies that didn't exist. or cant i can't I can't remember. It's been a long time since I've seen it. But um just when you were talking about Margin Call, it reminded me of ah that film.
Corporate Crime and Negligence
00:16:57
Speaker
um I also thought about um the but film Erin Brockovich. mean, it's corporate negligence, really, that she's um combating.
00:17:08
Speaker
But I think you could make a pretty strong argument that that was white collar crime. I agree. I think that's a great example. And it's a a little bit of a twist on the situation, but there were was definitely criminal negligence in not informing there you know their customers and and know huge loss of life and and financial resources. So yeah, I think that's a great example.
00:17:34
Speaker
Last year, I think it was, I read a book by Kwarty, and it's titled The Missing American. And so it's set in Ghana.
00:17:45
Speaker
And we get the other side of that um relationship scam. So we see the um people who are perpetrating the scam who are, you know, just young men who are pretending to be,
00:18:02
Speaker
um beautiful women preying on widowers ah in the U S you know, pretending that they've um fallen in love with them and and um getting the, these older men to send them, to send them money.
00:18:18
Speaker
um And it's it's actually a, a PI, the sleuth, she starts out um working for the police and ends up being part of a, a detective agency.
00:18:32
Speaker
she, and So that was that was an interesting um an interesting take on the on the genre. Oh, that's really fascinating to look at that from the other side. I don't think that that is ah anything that I've ever seen before. So that would be worth looking into.
00:18:51
Speaker
But that um that idea of ah but kind of this relationship scam, like this was much earlier than what we see
Charming Fraudsters in Literature
00:19:00
Speaker
these days. But I was also reminded of The Talented Mr. Ripley by Patricia Highsmith. I mean, just a classic ah white collar crime. He's you know charming. He's but doing forgery and these financial crimes in order to ah make his way in the world.
00:19:22
Speaker
Oh, that's such a good example, Brooke.
IRS and Financial Crime Investigation
00:19:26
Speaker
So one thing that I learned recently is that the IRS, and this is true of Canada's Revenue Agency, has a criminal investigation unit.
00:19:38
Speaker
And they have officers who have badges and they make the arrests of people who are involved in financial crimes. And it was actually the IRS criminal investigation team that arrested Al Capone.
00:19:53
Speaker
um So I think you know most people know that He ended up in prison for for tax fraud, but it was IRS investigators, not police investigators. Exactly. So I think sometimes we don't imagine that there is that branch of the IRS that are, you know, as a SWAT team going in to maybe like nail the accountant firm or something. It's it's pretty unique to think about.
00:20:21
Speaker
I read a book not too long ago about um cryptocurrency and kind of the crimes associated with that. And that's where I learned about the IRSCI.
00:20:34
Speaker
um But it's that book was Tracers in the Dark by um Andy Greenberg. And he's a journalist with Wired magazine. and He did a really great job of explaining kind of a very technical thing, cryptocurrency, in a way that was really accessible.
00:20:56
Speaker
So, you know, if if someone is interested in learning a little bit more about that, then I would i would recommend that. And it was just fascinating the um way that the investigators tackled these crimes.
00:21:09
Speaker
Oh, that sounds great, Sarah.
Digital Detachment in Crime Justification
00:21:11
Speaker
And, you know, just as you were speaking, it dawned on me how hands off most of these criminals can be. i mean, especially in this day and age, they're completely communicating with their victims ah via the Internet. Typically, they they don't have to see the faces or really know the people that they're harming.
00:21:32
Speaker
And so I think it makes it like to them, it feels like a very victimless crime when, in fact, they're really doing a lot of harm and um and causing a lot of fear as well. I know like the older generation of people in my family are our really scared of these scams, even though i don't, thankfully, no one has been a victim of any. I think that that fear that that will happen um is really tangible in this day and age when we're doing so much of our interacting online.
00:22:05
Speaker
Oh, that's such a good point, Brooke, that distance that the criminal has from their victim.
Conclusion and Upcoming Interview
00:22:12
Speaker
um um'm I'm sure it makes it easier to justify. Well, Brooke, thank you for this conversation. It's been been really interesting to discuss white collar crime, both in real life and in fiction.
00:22:25
Speaker
Absolutely. It's been great. And we're not quite done with the topic. We have an interview with author Jacob Kerr coming up, and he has a new book out that includes some white-collar crime. So we're looking forward to speaking with him soon.
00:22:41
Speaker
But for today, thank you for joining us on Clued in Mystery. I'm Brooke. And I'm Sarah, and we both love mystery. Clued in Mystery is written and produced by Brooke Peterson and Sarah M. Stephen.
00:22:55
Speaker
Music is by Shane Ivers. If you liked what you heard, please consider telling a friend, leaving a ri review, or subscribing with your favorite podcast listening app. Visit our website at cluedinmystery.com to sign up for our newsletter, The Clued in Chronicle, or to join our paid membership, The Clued in Cartel.
00:23:11
Speaker
We're on social media at Clued in Mystery.