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The Muppet Christmas Carol (1992)
328 Plays2 years ago
Join Satsunami and Andrew in the penultimate episode of the year as they discuss the Christmas classic The Muppet Christmas Carol. How well does this film hold up? Is it as good as the other adaptations? And why does it hold such a special place in our hearts. Find out if there is more gravy than grave about this episode!
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Transcript
Festive Greetings and Introduction
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:17
Speaker
Aloha ho everybody and welcome to another festive episode of Chatsunami. My name's Satsunami and with two days left until Christmas truly kicks off, we thought that we would tackle a film that is very near and dear to everybody's hearts. And of course I could not do it alone, so I had to recruit the help of a fellow ghost of Christmas past. He is the one, the only, Andrew.
00:00:45
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami. And I've just got asked, why are you floating there? Bar-Humbag, Satsu. Bar-Humbag, indeed. Yeah, I'm floating. I'm on Cloud 9. I'm floating. I'm a ghost of Christmas is yet to come. Or that's the bad one, isn't it? I'm excited to talk about the topic that we have today. Yeah, I was going to say. The robes and everything. The scythe is a bit much, you know?
00:01:07
Speaker
Touch my robe.
Exploring Different Versions of A Christmas Carol
00:01:10
Speaker
That's the wrong Christmas carol, isn't it? Quite possibly. Wait, is there actually a Christmas carol film where he says that? Yeah, the Jim Carrey one, the recent-ish one. The gross of Christmas present goes, touch my robes. You say that, but when did that come out? Oh god, I say the recent one. I think it came out in 2010 or something, didn't it?
00:01:32
Speaker
2009 would you believe? Can I just leave it up there? Oh my god. I saw that in the IMAX, would you believe? Dagga in the heart. Yeah, oh my god. Speaking of that very subtle introduction, and I was just saying before we came on to record that there was a very morbid way I could have introduced this podcast, so I'm going to try not to be as faithful to this source material, but
00:01:57
Speaker
today we are indeed going to be talking about a very beloved film of Christmas. Do you want to tell our lovely listeners at home what we're going to be talking about
The Muppets Christmas Carol: A 30-Year Retrospective
00:02:07
Speaker
today? Yeah, we did hint at it that it is going to be a Charles Dickens Christmas Carol, but it is not your standard interpretation of a Christmas Carol. It is indeed the Muppets Christmas Carol that came out in 1992, I believe it was.
00:02:20
Speaker
Well, would you believe, and I'm getting my early facts in here, but would you believe this year is the 30th anniversary of this film? Really, 30 years ago? Well, that makes me feel old because as someone born in that same year, I don't know what's worse. The fact that I'm the same age as this film or the fact that technically I'm older by a couple of months in this film, which that does not bode well. No. There's more gravy than grave about that fact.
00:02:49
Speaker
Oh god, there is indeed. Yeah, we can't blame it on a crumb of cheese, a fragment of undone potato. Yeah, going back to the muppet Christmas carol, what is your first experience of this film? Because when people think about a Christmas carol, a Christmas carol as we said is written by Charles Dickens in the 19th century. It is a widely beloved Christmas story and
00:03:14
Speaker
probably doesn't need much of an explanation, but to give a swift rundown for the two people who probably don't know, it's about a old miser called Scrooge who gets visited by three ghosts and ends up renouncing his miserable ways. You know, it's a story that's been done to death, but this version of A Christmas Carol
00:03:36
Speaker
seems to be the one that sticks in everyone's minds.
Personal Connections to the Muppets Christmas Carol
00:03:39
Speaker
So going back to you Andrew, what was your first exposure to this film? That's a tough one because I do have memory of watching A Christmas Carol growing up, or rather A Muppet's Christmas Carol, but
00:03:51
Speaker
I don't have particularly strong memories of it as a child and I think my kind of real appreciation of the movie came much later. I think it came probably closer to my university days where I really started to appreciate it more and I think I started watching those films more frequently as well. So I'm a late appreciator of The Muppets' Christmas Carol but it is certainly my favourite addition, favourite telling of the Christmas Carol story. What was your introduction to Muppets' Christmas Carol? What does it mean to you?
00:04:21
Speaker
Well, see in all honesty, I feel as if I'm up at Christmas Carol has always been there. You know that way where it's just as one of these Christmas films that's always been in the rotation of Christmas films? It doesn't feel as if it's, I mean, with films like It's a Wonderful Life, Jingle All the Way, you know, like ones we've actually reviewed in the past.
00:04:41
Speaker
It doesn't feel as if, you know, there's not been a Christmas where we haven't put on a Christmas carol or, you know, I extension a Muppet Christmas carol, so it's kind of always been there. But it's funny you say that, that you don't have any strong memories of this because I'm exactly the same. I remember at Christmas time sitting down and being like, oh, we're watching a Muppet's Christmas carol. But yeah, it's just kind of been there. You know, it's like the Muppet in the corner just waiting to.
00:05:06
Speaker
bring you on this magical journey. Before we dive into this film and both what it means to both of us as well as how we would rate this film, before we dive into this film and we really dive into what makes this such a great adaptation, would you say that this is an adaptation worth checking out? Yeah, I really think
00:05:26
Speaker
is. I think it holds up fantastically for all ages. It is a very interesting telling of a story, that it's always told like a play, as opposed to any other interpretation that I've seen. And the performances of Scrooge by Michael Caine is brilliant, such such a wonderful performance, and the use of the Muppets characters in their roles are really fun to watch. So I do think it is worth watching. I think it's probably the most
00:05:55
Speaker
interesting and fun telling of A Christmas Carol's Story and yeah I think that anyone who has not already seen it should and if you have then make sure it's added to your your Christmas rotation. Yeah so you know seriousness I could not emphasize that if you haven't seen this film obviously you'll know the story. This isn't one of these stories where because I was going to give
00:06:17
Speaker
the audience a spoiler warning to be like, oh spoilers, go watch the film first. But see in all honesty, I feel like this is one of the rare occasions for a story that's been around for 200 plus years. Yeah, I know. Just in case. Just in case you thought you were gonna get away from spoilers.
00:06:35
Speaker
like oh I haven't read that yet but see before we go on then we dive in.
Audience Reactions and Film's Unique Qualities
00:06:40
Speaker
I've actually got a couple of comments from Twitter so before we started recording this episode I put out a tweet to the lovely followers over on Twitter and I asked them to include their comments about what they thought about this film so will we have a look at these before we go into the film? Yeah I'd love to hear what our lovely listeners have to say.
00:07:02
Speaker
We have the first comment from our friends over on casting views who say, well, they gave two responses. First of all, they said, for me, it's between this, the Muppets Christmas carol and Jingle All The Way. Don't make me choose, followed by an serious response, though. I really like it. It's a nice fun film to sit with at Christmas that tells the classic tale in the only way the Muppets could. That is a good point, though. This film is very unique.
00:07:30
Speaker
isn't it? You can look at it in similar ways that you do with Muppet's Treasure Island, or is there been any other Muppet's versions of stories? I'm trying to think. I think there's been quite a few. There's Muppet's Wizard of Oz, and I think when they were on TV they had parodies and retellings, but it was always very much comedic. It wasn't really as faithful to the material as far as I know
00:07:56
Speaker
I think they did a Star Wars parody thing in one of their episodes. I think Gonzo was Darth Vader.
00:08:02
Speaker
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Our next comment comes from the Doom Generation podcast who says, we've got this one coming up next week too. Who doesn't love the Muppets? My favourite character is Rizzo. Light the lamp, not the rat. That is worse to love, Barry. I have to admit though, I was actually really surprised when I put this tweet out because I was like, oh, everyone will have done the Muppets Christmas carol by now on their podcast. What?
00:08:29
Speaker
I don't realise what it is. There's actually quite a few podcasts just now who are going to be reviewing this film for the 30th anniversary, so it is amazing how even 30 years old this film is so influential. Yeah, I think it's a testament to how important this movie was to people that so many are interested in voicing their thoughts on this, and we can add our own two cents, throw our torch into the fire. I thought you were going to say the rat into the fire. Yeah.
00:08:56
Speaker
Throw our Rizzo into the fire. What did I just see? Like the lamp, not the rat. Taps the sign.
00:09:04
Speaker
So our next comment comes from What's The Script podcast who say, it's the best version.
Michael Caine's Iconic Performance
00:09:10
Speaker
Usually after watching it, I need to watch The Muppet's Treasure Island. That is fair enough. Nick Rood says, I love this movie. I'm a huge Muppets fan since I grew up watching them. This is such a great adaptation of the Charles Dickens story and keeps with the Muppet humor plus Michael Caine's Scrooge perfect casting.
00:09:30
Speaker
We will definitely get onto that when we dive into what makes us so great. But yes, spoilers, Michael Kean is fantastic in this film, isn't he? He is. He is absolutely wonderful. Yeah, I have some thoughts on his performance. I do think that he does a brilliant job. I do see some aspects where he doesn't fully commit. And I think that we'll get into that more later on.
00:09:50
Speaker
Cult Film Companion podcast is also mirroring Nick's comment there saying, Michael Canis Scrooge was an example of perfect casting. This is a must-watch every year for me and my family. Absolutely true. Lo Ken Enzi, apologies if I mispronounce that, says, I love this movie. In New Zealand we have Christmas and Summer, so this movie massively helps me get into the spirit of things. We have the talking smack
00:10:17
Speaker
podcast that says it's the best interpretation of the book to date and it has no right being as great as it is. The God of Pods movie says oh yes I love this movie and my house can recite it back to Fran and it's I think one of the quotes we said earlier, come in and know me better man. Human Paladrome says such a great add-up.
00:10:38
Speaker
We have every romcom podcast saying Michael Caine honestly should have been at least nominated for an Oscar for this performance. He makes you forget he's acting against Muppets. He brings me to tears when the love is gone scene, which I've enjoyed all these years on my old VHS tape, the best Scrooge. Keep that in mind because we will be returning to it. We have Victoria Wheeler saying
00:11:02
Speaker
I have a lit professor friend who lectures on this every year, truths to Dickens and 10, including the reader's large presents. Can I just say, that lit professor friend actually sounds amazing for bringing it up in lectures. I wish mine was bring up the Muppet Christmas Carol.
00:11:18
Speaker
he's doing a world of service there exactly oh my god i wish jess be saying watched it just last week with my daughter it was her first viewing i love my cocaine narration is funny and clever you know you can see a pattern starting to form here with the certain aspects that people are really praising in this film and
00:11:37
Speaker
There's just one more from Matthew Vandiver who says, I saw it for the first time a few days ago and this comment actually blew my mind by the way. He said, I saw it for the first time a few days ago. Unfortunately, I didn't know Disney Plus had put the uncut version in the extras instead of replacing the regular upload. Did you know about that?
00:11:58
Speaker
I didn't until quite recently, I think it was you that brought to my attention that there were extras to the movie that I hadn't seen. I think one of them was a song that isn't in the normal version.
00:12:08
Speaker
It seems to be the only bit that is cut from the film, because I followed up with that person and I was following up with other people because it was like, is it like a Lord of the Rings cut that we don't know about? Like three hours of a factually correct Muppet Christmas Carol or not seeing? Scrooge doing his accountancy for another hour, muttering Bahambug as he goes through each account. I'd watch it. Nah, I wouldn't. Usually this is a part of the episode where I go, I'd watch it, but no.
00:12:36
Speaker
There's only so much festive joy, I think I can extend to this. But yeah, you're right, it's the song When Love is Gone, which is a song between Scrooge and his fiancรฉe, I want to say. And yeah, it's like a big love ballad that they cut for various reasons. But if you want to find out why they cut that, will we just jump into why they think this is such a good film? Yeah, I think we should jump into the the meat and potatoes of this episode.
00:13:04
Speaker
We will indeed dive into the graveyard in grave analysis of this film, but until then, please hang on for these festive messages. Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime in general interest. Previously on Chatsunami, we've analysed what makes a good horror game, conducted a retrospective on Pierce Brosnan's runs James Bond, and listened to us take deep dives into both the Sonic and Halo franchises.
00:13:31
Speaker
Also, if you're an anime fan, then don't forget to check us out on our sub-series, Chatsunani, where we dive into the world of anime. So far, we've reviewed things like Death Note, Princess Mononoke, and the hit Beyblade series. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes, and all big podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:13:53
Speaker
This episode is sponsored by Zenkaster. If you're a podcaster that records remotely like me, then you'll know how challenging it can be to create the podcast you've always wanted. That's where Zenkaster comes in. Before I met Zenkaster, I was put a naive podcaster, recording on low-quality, one-track audio waves.
00:14:28
Speaker
I want you to have the same easy experience I do for all my podcasting and content needs. It's time to share your story.
00:14:40
Speaker
As we said, this film is beloved to buy a lot of people. With certain films, there's always going to be one or two people that go, oh I don't know about that, oh I think it's okay, I think it's great, and obviously, you know, I'm up as Christmas Carol isn't going to have fans everywhere, but it's safe to say that the majority of people, whenever this comes up in conversation, people don't really have bad things to say about this film.
00:15:07
Speaker
No, I don't think so. I've not heard anyone voice any discontent towards a Muppets Christmas Carol. I have heard people who have chosen preferences of other Christmas Carol interpretations, like the aforementioned 2009 Jim Carrey Disney Christmas Carol, which was a Robert Zemeckis movie, which is very good. I didn't appreciate it very much initially, but it's a very good adaptation.
00:15:30
Speaker
And I would say it's probably the closest to the book that I've encountered. And then an older generation might be more interested in the Alistair Sim version of
00:15:39
Speaker
Christmas Carol, which is very popular. And then, of course, there is the Mickey's Christmas Carol. Those are pretty memorable adaptations as well. And I would certainly give them credit. And I think that each person is entitled to their own opinion regarding which is their favourite. But I think there is there does seem to be a majority consensus that the Muppets Christmas Carol is the favourite among Christmas Carol fans, or at least among Christmas fans.
00:16:04
Speaker
because it tells the story of Crimson Carol with a childlike whimsy that is not as present in most interpretations of it, while still remaining quite faithful to the source material. It doesn't talk down to its audience, but it still manages to keep
Historical Context and Adaptation Choices
00:16:20
Speaker
it interesting to all ages. So I think that it deserves a huge, huge round of applause for how this film was created and directed, which was the directorial debut of
00:16:32
Speaker
Brian Henson, the son of the late Jim Henson, who had passed just two years prior to the release of this movie. And so Jim Henson gets a acknowledgement at the beginning of the film, along with puppeteer Richard Hunt, who voiced and puppeteered several iconic characters, so we can get into that a little bit more later. But it does stand out as one of the greats, and it's largely uncontroversial in the cultural zeitgeist. Good word.
00:16:59
Speaker
Thank you. Yeah, no you're totally right. It does feel a bit like, I don't know if this is fair to compare it to this, but it almost feels like the film version of, you know how every year you've got Christmas songs, and every year there's always a new artist trying to break out and be like, oh look at my version of this song, or look at my new original song,
00:17:22
Speaker
So you get loads of people trying to make their mark and make their stamp, but at the end of the day, you're still gonna get Slade, Wham, Mariah Carey defrosting in the corner. You know, you're gonna get all the usual people coming back. And I feel as if with Christmas albums, Christmas albums is a very saturated market. You don't have to listen to me to know that if you go on Netflix right now, you'll see a Christmas story, a Christmas chronicle, a Christmas dance, a Christmas
00:17:51
Speaker
Adjective. Christmas Prince, five. Now even Prince-ier. This time he has a hat. I want it. I want it.
00:18:00
Speaker
Hey, here's a crown! I want it, I want it, I want it! But that's the thing though, it's like there's so many films, and especially with A Christmas Carol, that is one of the quintessential Christmas stories of our society. It's absolutely revered at Christmas time, and there's so many interpretations, like whether it's the Disney version in 2009 with Jim Carrey, whether it's like a Hallmark slash Channel 5 film,
00:18:24
Speaker
where it's like someone who goes to, I don't know, a rural town and then they meet someone and they're like, oh, it turns out, you silly folk horn is bit, you know, like, oh, that rubbish. So the fact that 30 years old and people are not only still watching this film, they're still singing the songs, they're still laughing at the jokes, they're still putting it in the Christmas rotation every year, because that's the thing we were talking about. You know, you usually swap out films when you get to your Christmas rotation, you think,
00:18:53
Speaker
this year. I don't know if I want to watch that film or watch this and that, but it seems as if The Muppets is quite a permanent fixture. Would you say that's fair, that it's one of the few films that deserves like a permanent place on that rotation? I would certainly agree with that. I do think that it is the best telling on Christmas Carol and deserves to be shown each year as part of the rotation. Again, it's not to everyone's taste, but in my opinion it does deserve to be a part of the Christmas rotation and it
00:19:20
Speaker
It's the film that I push for the most each year when Christmas comes around. We're talking about what Christmas movies we have to see. I say, well, there has to be a Muppets Christmas Carol in there. I put my foot down and say, whatever we watch before Christmas, we have to watch a Muppets Christmas Carol. My
00:19:36
Speaker
family in laws. They all have their own movies that they make sure is on there, whether that's the National Lampoon Christmas Vacation, whether that's Elf, whether that's the newer one Noelle. They always make sure that these movies are included, and also the Jim Carrey Christmas Carol. And mine is always Muppet's Christmas Carol. I don't care if we watch no other Christmas movie as long as we watch that one before Christmas.
00:19:59
Speaker
Just the sound of you walking the doors as you're like, who wants to watch another version of A Christmas Carol? Well, that's also kind of my issue I have, because I don't particularly like watching the same story so soon after each other. So I like to space it out. For instance, my partner and I just watched Muppets Christmas Carol in preparation for today's episode, and she was then keen to soon after watch the Jim Carrey version. I said, I think I want to give it a week. I'd have a film like Settle.
00:20:24
Speaker
I don't like to go in and either rewatch a film or watch something like the same telling of that story again so soon afterwards, which is obviously tricky of when you have such a short limited window over the festive period, but I think that that is kind of how I like to operate personally. I don't know if you're similar in that regard.
00:20:41
Speaker
No, I totally see what you mean. Because comparing this to other adaptations of A Christmas Carol, it is like apples and oranges because I feel as if the Muppet Christmas Carol balances everything so well. Like, the humour's not too much, the serious moments aren't too serious. Personally, I feel as if at times the 2009 adaptation
00:21:03
Speaker
seems a bit serious but again like every adaptation has its own faults and issues but at the same time I feel as if with this one it's definitely a lot more balanced and as you said it's light-hearted and at the end of the day it's a lot of children's introduction to the worlds of A Christmas Carol and I feel as if obviously it's the most appropriate one. If I were to show a child a version of A Christmas Carol I would definitely choose this one
00:21:31
Speaker
over the Christmas carol of 2009, because all I'm saying is I don't want to see a skeleton version of a Muppet decay in front of my eyes. Yeah, that certainly is very frightening. I will say that the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come in a Muppet's version is arguably scarier than the 2009 version.
00:21:51
Speaker
I think the void of its hood is very unsettling, whereas it seems a lot more kind of cookie cutter, man in a cloak, skeleton hand kind of thing from the Jim Carrey version. Not to discredit that version at all, it's still wonderful, but I do think that particular scene is scarier.
00:22:07
Speaker
What they do include in that version, which they do not include in the Muppets one or any other one I've seen really, is the carriage chase scene where Scrooge becomes very tiny at one point. And apparently I was like, that's so silly. And then I was told, actually that was in the book. And I guess it was just too difficult to accomplish in other tellings of the story. And so they just kind of avoided it. And I think it would have looked very bizarre seeing Michael Caine kind of hobbling down the cobbled streets as a Muppet cab driver chases after him. Do you mean Muddy Caine?
00:22:35
Speaker
Wait a second, there was no Michael Caine. There was no Caine and Michael Caine. I think that each has its own strengths to it. I do think that this one is more child friendly than most. I remember even as a
00:22:52
Speaker
I think it would have been my early to mid-teens when I first saw the Jim Carrey version, and it did kind of frighten me. The scene with the children who were like orphan skeleton children clawing at him towards the end of the Ghost of Christmas Present, and that fear doesn't really exist in the Muppets telling of the story. It maintains a serious enough tone that you can take it seriously,
00:23:15
Speaker
but it doesn't ever linger on the more morbid sections, which kind of avoids and censors the more Dickensian aspect of the story, but it still tells the story in a whimsical enough way that you will engage with it, and it's a good entry point for a younger audience.
00:23:35
Speaker
At the very beginning of A Christmas Carol, it starts with the phrase, I think, Jacob Marway is dead, which is a very morbid sentence. Let's face it. And they even acknowledge that. As soon as he says it, Rizzo the rat, who's kind of the foil to the Charles Dickens character played by Gonzo. He acts as a fourth-wall break in addition to the Charles Dickens narrator who himself breaks the fourth wall. One thing that I
00:24:01
Speaker
hasn't been discussed yet, which I would like to draw attention to, and it's the case in every Muppets movie, but just the intro credits where we get introduced to the movie, which is a very old way of doing movies. They don't really do this now, where they kind of have a little kind of song as you're kind of leading you in, where it kind of says like, starring, and it like has the cast.
00:24:22
Speaker
that it says starring Kermit the Frog as Bob Cratchit, Gonzo as Charles Dickens. It allows you as the viewer, particularly as a child watching, to recognize the Muppet characters as their own acting identities. They have this agency, this independence from the puppeteers that are puppeting them. It's one of those things that's been commented on a million times where
00:24:47
Speaker
a celebrity will talk about how they meet Kermit the Frog or Miss Piggy at some kind of like chat show and they are always talking directly to the puppet like instinctively they completely lose awareness of the puppeteer below and it just they just kind of go into a childlike self of like
00:25:04
Speaker
Yeah, I'm talking to Kermit. I'm talking to Miss Piggy. That is such a beautiful thing that the Muppets as a company, the Jim Henson Company, have been able to do. Because I cannot think of any other example where they are able to establish themselves as those characters and you believe that they exist and separate from the puppeteers or animators or whoever that are playing these characters. I think that is so interesting and wonderful. What are your thoughts on that?
00:25:30
Speaker
Nope, totally agree with you there. It's definitely an iconic franchise. Going quickly back to what you were saying about the beginning, I actually rewatched the beginning just to kind of prepare myself for this episode to double check.
00:25:46
Speaker
how they started, because I was going to make a comment and be like, oh, it's funny because, you see, Jacob Marley was dead, or in this version, the Marlies were dead, which this is a fun side fact, by the way. See, for the longest time, I actually believed that in the Christmas Carol there were two Marlies. Yeah, I also thought there were two Marlies. Yeah, for the longest time when I heard the song, Marley and Marley. You know, I genuinely thought that
00:26:12
Speaker
most two Marlies. So, see when I watch the 2009 version going back to that quickly, and it said, Jacob Marley's dead. I was like, where's Robert Marley? I was like, I feel so stupid looking it up, being like, oh yeah, it's because there's two puppets.
00:26:29
Speaker
Scrooge is firm above the door. It does only say Marley and Scrooge. It doesn't say Marley, Marley and Scrooge, which you'd think it would given there were two Marleys. I sure hope someone got fired for that blunder. Because you were saying as well about the actors and the human actors as opposed to the Muppet actors.
00:26:48
Speaker
But you know, comparing it to the human actors who, going on to the technical feats of this film, this is an absolutely fascinating film. When you were researching this, did you look into the technical side of it? I did see some of it, yeah. So what was very interesting was the ice skating scene and just the scene where we see Kermit and
00:27:12
Speaker
or rather Bob Cratchit and Tiny Tim walking down the street and it looks like the street's kind of moving with them. The way that they did that, I kind of assumed it was just like a maybe a green screen behind them that was kind of suggested movement but what was actually was happening was the floor below them was moving to simulate the character moving through the town and I think that's just such a wonderful use of puppeteering technology and I mean the Muppets have never been shy on groundbreaking technical achievements with regards to filmmaking. Are there any others that stood out to
00:27:42
Speaker
you. Just note in that scene because your writer is absolutely fantastic when there is a camera in Tiny Tim which is just a smaller version of him on his shoulder and it is like you get really attached to that booby frog but I'm jumping the head of myself here. Yeah apparently it took 10 puppeteers to actually carry out that scene. That's amazing.
00:28:02
Speaker
Yeah, you had people obviously rowing the big drum of snow. Well, fake snow. You had one person control in Tiny Tim, you had one control in the arms, the legs. When I found that out and you see them all in the green suits and everything, it's absolutely incredible. But another one that I thought was amazing was
00:28:22
Speaker
the fact that, as you can see by the buildings and things, this isn't a real town. You can't really visit the Muppets, streets of London as it were, but something that was quite interesting though is because obviously Muppets are tiny, for the most part we'll get to the Ghost of Christmas present, but for the most part Muppets are smaller compared to humans and
00:28:44
Speaker
To get around that, they didn't use perspective tricks or anything, like the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings. What they did instead was they had the human actors raised on a plank and there would be puppeteers underneath them and they would hold up the muppets.
00:29:00
Speaker
So both the actors and the Muppets could co-exist in this one street, this one area. And I thought that was absolutely fantastic. It's such a genius way. But one thing I have to admit, I was a bit like, oh, that would be horrible, is they have to hit their marks when they come into a scene. They have to make sure that they're not constantly looking down in case they fall down. Like, I can do that. I mean, I could after falling several times, but I thought that was absolutely fantastic, the way they just
00:29:29
Speaker
did it. Before we talk about the main characters of this, Michael Kean's performance and the Muppets themselves, do you want to know a fun fact about the Ghost of Christmas Past? The Ghost of Christmas Past, and I said this to my girlfriend, so I asked her if she wanted to watch it and she said, yeah, this was the very first time I got to show her it and she absolutely loved it. I was saying how this ghost was probably scarier to me than the Ghost of Christmas, the future Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come. You
00:29:59
Speaker
Yes. Because it's like a floating baby thing? Yeah, I find the Ghost of Christmas Past to be the scariest of three ghosts in almost every interpretation. It doesn't look quite right. It has a kind of uncanniness to it. I think it's the attempt to be a puppet that looks human.
00:30:17
Speaker
It ends up looking like something from Labyrinth or Dark Crystal, one of these other Jim Henson and Muppet type productions that are more aimed at that look. It doesn't quite fit with the rest of the look of the other Muppets, which makes it very otherworldly, which I guess is what they were going for.
00:30:36
Speaker
Do you want to know how they actually achieved that? How did they achieve it? This is one of the things that I never really thought about. You know, I accepted it at face value because I thought if I question it, then it's probably going to come to me in their dream. And I'd be like, oh, hell no. No, it can go back to bed. So the way they did the Ghost of Christmas Past was apparently they put it in a tank of baby oil and they put like a green screen behind it. They put the muppet into like a vat of baby oil or like a tank.
00:31:04
Speaker
i always think of this and i could be totally wrong but the way i imagine it is like you know the bakta tanks out of starboard that's what it seems like where they put it in and that's why it floats because you know how the cloth underneath it floats up and down and they just put obviously a green screen to cut everything that
00:31:23
Speaker
out. So they did that, and apparently later on, because it was so difficult to maintain and clean the tank of baby oil, they had to switch to water. And you might be wondering why didn't they use water to begin with? Well, apparently water would damage it faster, but fortunately by the end of it, it got all their scenes with them up it. So to be honest, it didn't really matter whether or not they had it in water or not.
00:31:52
Speaker
personally I think they made the right decision trying to destroy it, throw it into the vat. No. It's a very depressing thought thinking about all the discarded muppets, like a Kermit from several movies ago that is now kind of decaying. Oh don't break the illusion this kid's listening to this probably. Maybe, no. Nah, you're right.
00:32:13
Speaker
Yeah, so that's a fun fact about that, but let's go on to one of the things that our listeners brought up on Twitter, that of course being Michael Caine and his performance of Scrooge.
Authenticity and Emotional Depth
00:32:26
Speaker
Now, I have to admit, personally for me, I think he does a fantastic job of playing the straight man in this film, because in the Muppets films in general, they're always very much winks to the camera, the characters are always goofy and over the top and you think,
00:32:42
Speaker
great because it's for kids. But for this, they really keep it quite grounded, and they even throw in a lot of quotes from the book. For example, we talked about the, there's more gravy than grave about you, whatever you are, which, seeing all honesty, one of the best lines in literature. I'm just going to throw that out there.
00:33:02
Speaker
you've got when he gets accosted for money, they say, oh, we've got to help the people otherwise they'll freeze to death. And then he just says, you know, so be it and decrease the surplus population, which is such a scathing line. I think that's the most Dickensian kind of line in the entire, at least in this adaptation of the story.
00:33:21
Speaker
Oh absolutely, because it is. It's just such a callous way of looking at the world, and obviously that is Scrooge in a nutshell. But yeah, of course you've got other classic lines like God Blesses Everyone. You boy, what day is it? Why it's Christmas day? You've got all of these, you've got the
00:33:37
Speaker
fantastic dialogue from the original book. The fact that, as I said, you've got the comical elements, and then you've got Scrooge coming in, playing it very straight faced, very serious, very Shakespearean almost, because I think that's what he said when he actually took the role, that he said he wanted to play it serious. He didn't want to have winks to the camera and be like, oh, look, it's me, I'm Michael Gane, and I'm up at
00:34:02
Speaker
Yeah, it's very interesting because you can look at his performance in this and Tim Curry's performance in Muppet's Treasure Island, which are starkly different interpretations of how they performed it. Michael Caine treated Muppet's Christmas Carol like he was doing any other movie that didn't include Muppet's, that he performed it as a true actor would performing the role as I brought up before Alistair Sim before him performing the role of Scrooge.
00:34:29
Speaker
Whereas someone like Tim Curry in Muppets Treasure Island really hammed it up, really kind of like hit home like, I'm in a Muppets movie, I'm enjoying the hell out of this Muppets movie. I'm like chewing the scenery. And both interpretations, while starkly different from each other, are so brilliant. They each, in their own way, are so appropriate for what we're, what we're viewing.
00:34:49
Speaker
Michael Caine does so, so well at reading the lines like he is performing. As you said, it's almost Shakespearean, performing the lines in such a dramatic way that removes himself from what otherwise be very childish film. He is treating it like any other film whilst not, you don't get the interpretation that he feels he's too good for the movie he's in.
00:35:13
Speaker
There are instances, I do spot instances where he does kind of slip a little bit in his hamming it a little bit and kind of a little smile as he says his line. So I do, I do notice little cracks in that. So I don't think it is completely faultless his performance. And I think that you're a follower that suggested that he should have been nominated for an Academy Award for this
00:35:30
Speaker
Betrayal might be going a little bit far I in my in my opinion I don't think that it was quite that strong performance but I do think that he elevates the movie in such a way that makes it truly memorable in terms of its Scrooge I think.
00:35:45
Speaker
If they had simply casted a Muppet as Scrooge, then it would have been a very different film. I think that they made the film what it is through both the use of Michael Caine as Scrooge and the wonderful performances of the Muppets themselves.
00:36:02
Speaker
I feel as if he had someone like, I don't know, even Gonzo as Scrooge or one of the Marley Marlians. Yeah, the Statler or Waldorf as Marley might have been one, Sam the Eagle might have been chosen or perhaps... Animal.
00:36:19
Speaker
There are plenty of options for them to have chosen from the Muppets cast to be Scrooge, but the fact that they decided to choose someone like Michael Caine to perform that role and the performance he gave cements this movie as a truly great interpretation of A Christmas Carol.
00:36:37
Speaker
I feel as if, as you said, if they went with the Muppet route then it would have 100% not been as widely revered as it is today. Because going back to something I was saying earlier, it's the fact that Michael Caine does play it so seriously, so when you get to those hard-hitting emotional moments, you know, it's so poignant. I even choked up a wee bit, see, with of course the infamous Tiny Tim scene where it goes to the
00:37:04
Speaker
future, and he sees what will become of him, and what will become of Bob Cratchit and his family, and especially Tiny Tim, where the Ghost of Christmas Present previously had said, I foresee a crutch with no owner sitting by the fireplace. And considering, because I have to admit, as we were quite emotional over it, all I could keep thinking was, this is a green frog puppet that we are getting emotional over, and
00:37:31
Speaker
yet it still holds that poignancy. It's still as emotional because you think, obviously it's not close levels of emotion, but it's still emotional because you care about these characters, you don't see Kermit the Frog. It sounds weird to say, but in a Muppet song you don't see Kermit the Frog, you see Bob Cratchit, you don't see, well technically you see Fozzie Bear as Fozzie Wig, which I thought was brilliant,
00:37:56
Speaker
Yes, and that was actually someone I was going to bring up that despite the seriousness of the performance for Michael Caine, the line where he delivers saying, Oh, it's old Fuzzy Wigs rubber chicken factory, that deadpan delivery really got me I thought that was hilarious. I thought I thought that was all the better. The fact that it was delivered, as I said, so deadpan that it made the ridiculous of it so so amusing. But
00:38:19
Speaker
One thing I want to point out because as I said before this film, to me personally I think this film balances the humour and comedy with the serious nature of the story perfectly but there's one particular scene that they cut that actually could have swayed this a little bit and I don't know if you know what I'm talking about here but that of course it's the same scene
00:38:41
Speaker
where we see Scrooge talking to his ex-fiancee at that point, and she wants the wedding and everything, and he's more obsessed with money, saying that he wants to be quote-unquote comfortable and he's concerned with the minute details, which obviously leads to the breakup of his relationship.
00:38:59
Speaker
Now, I think the theatrical cut had this, it could be wrong. Definitely the VHS copy had this and it's quite interesting to hear why this was cut after the Foziwag
00:39:12
Speaker
party. There's a scene where they're talking by the lakeside, and there was a song called When Love Is Gone, and as some of the people commented on Twitter said, it's quite an emotional...I don't want to say love ballad, but it's not far off to be honest, where they talk about what could have been and everything, and it's a very emotional song. But apparently it didn't taste well.
00:39:34
Speaker
with test audiences. You know they thought it kind of killed the pacing. You can watch the whole song separately in Disney Plus or if you want to watch it with the film then you can watch the uncut version as well and the extras of the Disney Plus version. But apparently for the longest time as well they lost I think it was the negatives of it. So when they actually had
00:39:57
Speaker
copies of it, they had copies of this song that had degraded in quality, so they had upscaled half of the film, or rather the majority of the old film, but they couldn't really upscale that part of it, so there was like a stark difference. It's almost like, you know when you're watching the extended edition of Lord of the Rings and it's just there's some scenes that just take a huge dip in quality and you're like, what the hell happened there?
00:40:22
Speaker
and then it cuts back to your regular schedule programming and you think, what the hell? Probably they would have been worried about that. But what are your thoughts on that? Do you think Andrew, that they should have cut this out? Do you think it's a pace killer? Yeah, I do think it is. And to a wider point, I think one of the biggest weaknesses of this film, it's not the case for all of them, but I think the songs aren't always great.
00:40:46
Speaker
You wash your mouth out with soap. Yeah, I know. I know it's an unpopular opinion. If there is a weakness of this film, I think it is some of the songs. I think there are some lovely songs throughout it, but I do think that is what lets it down. So it doesn't surprise me that that didn't test well with test audiences and they removed it. How curiosity, what songs do you think, and maybe not don't work, but what songs are your least favourites in this?
00:41:14
Speaker
Oh no, I should have made a note of them. I can't put my finger on exactly which song kind of pulled me out. I think sometimes it was just like sections of a song, like the introduction of Scrooge song. I think there were like sections of it that are very kind of catchy, very fun, but I think it goes on a little bit too long. The song is supposed to be exposition for the character of Scrooge for young children who previously aren't familiar with who this person is. So I understand what it's doing, but I do think it goes on a little bit too long.
00:41:43
Speaker
The one Kermit sings about Christmas being timed together, that's a lovely one, I really enjoy that one. But then you have certain sections like the where they're closing the accountancy firm, I think it's an accountancy firm, and the rats are all kind of prepping for Christmas. Again, another one where I find that kind of drags on a little bit too long. Is that the one where he skates through the streets and everything? Yes, I think so. I'm not going to lie, I was a bit worried you were going to say something like it feels like Christmas,
00:42:09
Speaker
No, that one is a strong song. I do agree that that is a good one. Does that overlap with the song they're singing in the firm? I can't remember. But I think there are there are sections of it that I don't think are strong. And I think that can often be the case in movies that I do find the musical numbers to be weaker. I think when we talked about Klaus previously.
00:42:28
Speaker
we mentioned how the musical numbers were sometimes the weakest parts of the film. So I think it's a personal thing about musical numbers. Within films, I'm a big fan of musicals generally, but I don't think it always works in this film. And I think it's the same with
00:42:43
Speaker
the likes of Muppets Treasure Island. I'm not always a huge Muppets song fan. There's obviously some great ones like the Rainbow Connection. But yeah, the Muppets does have a great arsenal of songs but I think their insistence to have lots of them in a movie sometimes leaves some of them being a little bit weaker or going on for too long.
00:43:02
Speaker
On that note, going on to, of course, before we wrap up, we've obviously got to talk about the muppets themselves. And as we said before, the film does such a great job of characterizing them, because I have to say, see when you were watching this film and you were watching Kermit as Bob Cratchit, was there ever a moment where you went, oh, that's Kermit acting like Kermit?
00:43:26
Speaker
Not often. There are certain Kermitisms that exist, which I think are necessary in any kind of Muppets production. He does this thing where he kind of folds his top lip into itself when he's upset. That's a good ape face. Yeah. I adore when he does that. And I actually made a note about how much I love that. And I think that is very uniquely Kermit. I want to say it pulls you out because that has kind of a negative connotation. But that shows that you're still watching Kermit the Frog.
00:43:53
Speaker
that you are not exclusively viewing a complete performance of Bob Cratchit, that you are watching Kermit the Frog playing a role. I think he does play the role, as do the other Muppets wonderfully. I think they do, but at the end of the day, I'm not completely taken in by the performance. I don't think that I'm seeing a complete Christmas Carol performance. I'm seeing the Muppets, personally. I don't know, what is your interpretation? Do you see it a different way? Do you see it more as those characters rather than the Muppets themselves?
00:44:22
Speaker
I think it's a bit of a mix, you're completely right. There are moments where the characters, and by that I mean the puppets themselves, do bleed into their interpretations. I mean there's all these nodes and winks like Sam the Eagle of course where he says
00:44:38
Speaker
which I absolutely love that scene. It is the American way. And then of course Gonzo whispers his ear and he goes, it is the British way. And you know, there's moments like that which I have to admit I do like. I think that does provide necessary levity to the film.
00:44:54
Speaker
and because as we said it is very Dickensian, it's very morbid at times and grim so to have those muppets to balance out those elements is absolutely fantastic but also at the same time I think what actually makes it so impactful as well is the fact that we do see characters that we've known for years, you know we love them, Kerma, Miss Piggy and we see them go through their own hardships like I think that's what makes the Tiny Tim scene
00:45:24
Speaker
hit so hard because, as I said before, I was trying to figure out why is it so sad? Why did I get an emotional gut punch and think, no tiny Tim, even though it's a puppet frog? Why is this so emotional? And the reason, of course, it was my rationale is just the fact that Kermit is always happy-go-lucky, he always strives through his problems, and even at the beginning when I introduced to his wife, Miss Piggy in this case, she's very much herself
00:45:52
Speaker
at the beginning she's sneaking food in, she goes whatever and rolls her eyes to the camera, which is great. But then when they lose Tiny Tim, you see them in a very emotionally vulnerable state, which is not something I would consider muppets, I've got to say. You're talking about Kermit and Miss Piggy losing a child essentially, at least their characters are,
00:46:13
Speaker
And that's the thing, you've never really, obviously, I don't want to see more of that. It's obviously context sensitive, but it's the fact you see Kermit, who is this always happy-go-lucky character. He doesn't break down, essentially, but he's so despondent and he's just so sad. You don't want Kermit the Frog to be sad. You want him to be happy. You want him to be running through the streets with Tiny Tim like he was at the beginning.
00:46:38
Speaker
And I think that is just such, it is the beauty of this film. It can take these characters and it can put in those silly moments, but then also have that seriousness. And I think one of the best decisions, and it's something you brought up at the very beginning, but one of the 100% the best decision they could have made in this film is towards the end, because we talked a little bit about the ghosts themselves. We talked about the creepy ghosts of Christmas past. We talked about how, you know, full of life and how
00:47:08
Speaker
vibrant the Ghost of Christmas Present is. He is absolutely fantastic as well, but then we get to the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come, and that ghost, as you said, he's terrifying. Maybe not terrifying in the traditional sense, like you'd still look at him and go, alright, it's a guy in a hulk, but it's the fact he doesn't
00:47:27
Speaker
say anything, he just stalks Michael Caine throughout the graveyard, he shows him and obviously we all know as an audience after knowing this story, we know what's coming that he is the unfortunate man and you know he has to watch as like a helpless bystander, watching all these people kind of laugh at him, he has to watch his potentially one of his best friends Bob Cratchit just break down as they say in the book and
00:47:54
Speaker
the film as a whole, whose steps are getting shorter, and they picked a nice place where they could look over the city and things. I was like, oh, no, no, tiny chimp, please. As I said before, throughout the film, they have Gonzo acting as, quote-unquote, Charles Dickens and Rizzo the Rat, and they, of course, they provide their own narrative and they tell the audience what's going on, which, again, I think that's really great for newcomers. But when it comes to this segment at the very end with the ghosts of
00:48:23
Speaker
just was yet to come. They just disappear. They make an excuse and say, oh, it's too scary. We don't want to be in it. But I think that's absolutely the right decision. Because can you imagine if they were trying to have that emotional core? And they undercut it. Yeah. And then you have Rizzo saying, oh, gee, that's sad. You know, it's like, where are my jelly beans?
00:48:44
Speaker
Yeah, I'm glad I don't have to go in that fire. It wouldn't work. It would completely destroy the first two thirds of the film. It would just completely... You'd be like, all right, okay, am I supposed to take this serious? Or it don't get me wrong, at the end of the day, this is a Muppets film. You're not expecting the Citizen Kane over a Christmas Carol story, but... I'm expecting the Michael Kane of a Christmas Carol. I wish I'd said that now. Thank you, Andrew.
00:49:10
Speaker
Yeah, probably your thoughts on that. Yeah, I think that it balances the tone so well. As you say, they very cleverly have our comedic relief, as well as narration from Gonzo, who plays Charles Dickens, and Rizzo the Rat, who plays Rizzo the Rat, who have been ever present throughout the story, providing, as I said, comic relief and context for the story we're watching.
00:49:30
Speaker
they excuse themselves from a scene that allows the acting and the performance from both the voiceless character of The Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come, who just purely uses gestures to convey what he has to convey, and Michael Caine, who
00:49:48
Speaker
almost goes through the different stages of grief, understanding what he is seeing, what he is experiencing with his final spirit. So it balances that tone brilliantly by having those characters excuse themselves and just letting the rest of the film play out until the more cheery culmination when our protagonist, our anti-hero, Scrooge, wake up on Christmas Day and have an epiphany, have a self-realisation of who he should now be in
00:50:15
Speaker
how he should now treat people. And so they do so well. They do really, really well at balancing how they want this film to be portrayed. Would you say they succeed in the way that they actually end this film as a whole? Yeah, I do. I think they conclude this film in a true to the story way that gives its own twist that they include a sort of
00:50:38
Speaker
song at the end that allows our main character to finally take part in the song. I don't think that he's singing at any other section of the film and we're finally kind of seeing him embrace this whimsical side that he has been surrounded by previously and is now a part of.
00:50:56
Speaker
I think doing that works so well. I think that is another reason why the decision to remove the song that Younger Scrooge sings about losing love. I think that that was the right choice because it leaves this final number as the one instance of Scrooge singing and being, as I say, part of this wider musical group.
00:51:17
Speaker
Looping back to what we were saying at the beginning, it is just absolutely amazing how even 30 years on, all of these positive moments, all of these absolutely nuanced moments absolutely shine through and they just really stick the landing. Not only the way they tell the story, but just the way that they complete the narrative as a whole. As a Christmas carol adaptation, how well would you say this succeeds in that regard?
00:51:45
Speaker
I think it does well. It does miss out certain aspects, like I'm of the understanding, like he doesn't really address his nephew in this adaptation towards the end. He doesn't meet with his nephew and have that kind of moment where he accepts his invitation to join him for Christmas, where he shows his nephew this new side of him, which I think is a very sweet moment in the story of A Christmas Carol that unfortunately is missed out in this, and instead just has it go straight to the Bob Cratch's home and concludes it there.
00:52:15
Speaker
which is understandable. They don't necessarily want to remove the kind of tone that they're going for. And they want to kind of focus more so on the cratchet story rather than the nephew story. So I can understand their reasoning behind it. But I do think that it does lack that in terms of a Dickensian story that they are trying to tell.
00:52:31
Speaker
It must have been quite difficult, though, for them to think, right, what more business can we get away with with the Muppets this time? You know, because when you think about the, personally, one of my favourite parts of the film, where they talk about the ghost of Christmas present, he takes them through the city and, you know, they have that wonderful line with Bob Cratchit thanking the founder of the feast and everything, which I have to admit, that's a line I sometimes quote around Christmas.
00:52:58
Speaker
like the founder of the feast. When you see the ghost of Christmas present who, even though he's in it for such a short amount of time, and that's a whole other discussion there about how impactful he is, and you see him become solely grey and everything. As I joked before, I didn't want to see the skeletal remains of him. I didn't want to see muppet versions of the children of ignorance and want coming out of his cloak and trying to attack Scrooge, which
00:53:28
Speaker
not gonna lie, seeing the 2009 version scared the hell out of me. That was a horrible, horrible scene compared to obviously the Muppet one where he just disappears very suddenly. Yeah, he just kind of disappeared. Does he disappear into like, not a cloud of smoke, that's the wrong thing, but is there an effect for that? I feel like he just vanishes. I think his robes remain. Like Obi-Wan. Yeah, he's essentially like Obi-Wan. If you strike me down.
00:53:55
Speaker
A more powerful spirit than you can possibly imagine. Go to Dagobah, Scrooge.
00:54:03
Speaker
There you will find a spirit who will teach you the ways of Christmas yet to come. Which, ironically enough, was Yoda not puppeted by campaigns? Frank Oz. Oh, is it Frank Oz? OK. Miss Piggy. Miss Piggy and Yoda are the same person, which I can never get over. And now I can't get over that. If you listen to the original Yoda, you will hear aspects of Miss Piggy in it, and it messes with you now. That is actually a fact. Of all the facts that we've gone through tonight, that is the one that I never thought we would do.
00:54:31
Speaker
But yeah, this film is an absolutely technological marvel, both in terms of story, in terms of film direction and the way they shot everything.
Technical Brilliance and Creative Details
00:54:45
Speaker
As I said, I cannot get over the fact it took 10 puppeteers just for that one scene of Kermit dancing down the street with Tiny Tim. And there's also quite a lot of Easter eggs. I don't know if you've read this before, but
00:54:57
Speaker
For example, partly in the final musical sequence, there's a store in the background that has the name Micklewhite, which is a nod to Michael Caine's real surname. Oh, interesting. And I think I could be wrong because I never spotted this in the film when I was watching it, but partly towards the end of it as well, there's a haberdashery as well called Stadler and Moldorf, which
00:55:23
Speaker
are named obviously after the Muppets who play Marley and Marley in this one. And I don't know, there's just like a lot of kind of tiny moments like that, tiny background things, which I think not only are they trying to make this adaptation of A Christmas Carol was based, is it?
00:55:40
Speaker
can be but they're putting their own imprint on it. I mean it's been years since I've seen the Muppets version of Treasure Island but from what I remember that was very comical and very over the top and it didn't feel as if it was, you know, they weren't putting a stamp on the story if that makes sense. It was just Treasure Island but oh it's Muppets whereas for this story not only are they retelling the story of Christmas Carol but they're doing it in such a
00:56:07
Speaker
poignant way. They do it in such a way that not only is this a Muppets film but it's quite possibly one of the best Christmas Carol adaptations in cinema and I will go as far to say that is probably one of the best ones because it's so accessible, it's so family friendly
00:56:25
Speaker
anybody can jump into this and enjoy whatever aspects if they want to enjoy the darker elements, if they want to enjoy the nodes to the actual book, if they want to enjoy just the muppets and their antics and their kind of fourth wall breaks. I feel as if there's something for everyone and that would be Michael's in comments for this film. I feel as if this is one of the best Christmas carol adaptations. It's one that I think
00:56:49
Speaker
everybody should be checking out, everybody should be enjoying. Yeah, if you haven't seen this and you're still not convinced, please go check out. It's on Disney Plus and I can't say anything more to convince you, just go. Sure. What are you doing still listening to this? But yeah, there are any final comments you want to make about this problem.
00:57:10
Speaker
Not much more than what you've already said, as we've already said so many times throughout this episode. The film does the story such justice, but it does tell such a faithful adaptation of the story whilst remaining to be interesting for a young audience. Because whilst A Christmas Carol is one of the easier stories for children to get into of Charles Dickens' selection,
00:57:35
Speaker
It is still a story that could be quite dated if it was told in exactly the same way as was originally told. I think modernizing it in the way that they did back in 1992 and utilizing the Muppets, a group of characters that we are already so familiar with to tell that story is incredibly interesting and makes it my favorite interpretation of the story. And I think one of the best, if not the best interpretations of the story.
00:58:01
Speaker
One thing I would like to leave the listeners to contemplate, and please do comment us on Twitter about this, is if the Muppets were to do another story or movie that has already existed, what would that be? I would love to see a Muppets godfather. I've got all the life fields. I know. I think it would be hilarious. Can you think of one off the top of your head? Well, clearly I've got to say the Citizen Kane version of Muppets. Maybe then you'd finally watch Citizen Kane.
00:58:31
Speaker
You're not wrong. I've said this in a couple of past episodes, but I feel as if now I can't watch Citizen Kane because the joke has gone too deep. So now, like, do I become that host that's never seen Citizen Kane? Or do I watch it and then I can no longer make that joke about it being, oh, it's like the Citizen Kane. Well, yeah, you're right. Either that or... I was going to say it's a wonderful life, but they actually have done it. It's a wonderful life adaptation.
00:58:59
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like I've seen that. Yeah, like when he jumps in the river and he comes out as a nice block,
From TV Special to Classic Film
00:59:04
Speaker
yeah. I think that was a TV special which, and this is my last fact of the night here, but apparently this was supposed to be a TV special. It wasn't supposed to be like a theatrical film.
00:59:14
Speaker
interesting. Well that was the initial intention and for whatever reason they decided to make it into the film that is today and personally I think that is the best way forward they could have taken. It had been many years since the last Muppets movie. It was a long time coming for another Muppets movie and I think
00:59:32
Speaker
This worked out very well. I mean, it was two years post the death of Jim Henson. So I think that it gave ample time after his passing and had his son take over the mantle as a director and what was his director or a debut. And of course, it was honoring Richard Hunt as well, who had passed earlier that year. Richard Hunt was the puppeteer for iconic characters like Statler.
00:59:52
Speaker
Scooter, Sweetums, Beaker, and I think that might be it. There might have been others as well, but he was originally Beaker, he was originally Sweetums, he was originally Statler, like there's some very iconic characters there that Richard Hunt was the puppeteer for. He sadly passed away during the HIV AIDS epidemic of the 90s, the 80s and 90s, but it is a wonderful, wonderful adaptation and I do think everyone should revisit it if they've already seen it and please check it out for the first time if you've not seen it
Festive Farewell and Year-End Wishes
01:00:20
Speaker
yet.
01:00:20
Speaker
On that note, Andrew, thank you. First of all, thank you so, so much for normally coming on for this episode, but also talking about such a beloved film, especially this Face of Time of Year. So thank you so, so much for that. No problem at all. I'm glad you had me on to talk about what is a wonderful Christmas movie. And speaking of Christmas, of course, this episode is going to be coming out on the 23rd of
01:00:44
Speaker
December. So we've only got two days left till Christmas. Oh I can't wait. Absolutely terrifying. Have you got all your Christmas shopping done? God no. Yep same, same. Yeah it's going to be a mad rush. So on behalf of everyone here at Chatsunami, I personally just want to wish everyone who's celebrating this year a very Merry Christmas and by extension of course a very Happy New Year.
01:01:08
Speaker
Yeah, happy holidays everyone. I hope everyone enjoys the festive season, whether you're celebrating or not. I hope you have a lovely time. And on that note, as we closed for the penultimate episode of the year, can you believe that? The penultimate episode of 2022. Stop saying penultimate episode. It's penultimate.
01:01:27
Speaker
It's bringing on a fear of the end there. No, we're excited for the new year and looking forward to what is to come in 2023. Yep, we indeed have some very exciting episodes in the pipeline, especially for January, but we're not going to show our ghost of Christmas future just yet. No teasing just yet.
01:01:48
Speaker
Yeah, it would just be me in the corner and a rope just pointing at people. But listen to Traco now, man. Ooh, pointing at people in the corner. That's a bit of a tease in itself. Is that not an RDM song? That's me in the corner. That's me pointing. On that note, thank you all so, so much for listening. Stay safe. Stay awesome. Stay hydrated. And stay merry. And yes, have a very Merry Christmas.