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16 - The Dark Era: Enter, the Wolverine!
39 Plays1 day ago
Issues: Defenders #15-16, Hulk #180-182, Giant-Size Fantastic Four #4
What’s that we see? Some light shining in the distance of this dark, dark void? Well first, we have to wade through baby villains, a scrappy new Canadian anti-hero, an obscure Fantastic Four antagonist, and so so much Hulk stuff. But two new writers enter our world, a guy named Len Wein and a kid named Chris Claremont. Wonder if they can save us?
Topics Include:
Our Steve Englehart mea culpa. Pat was right about Frank Miller. LEN WEIN! Flying from New York to New Mexico with a jetpack. Toad or Lorelei. “How to Grow the Ultimate Mutant in a Tube.” Kyle Richmond, Boy Tycoon! Jetpack physics. Doctor Strange has an exclamation quota. A bunch of babies. Hulk stuff. The Wendigo. Introducing… The Wolverine! Multiple Georges. Hammer and Anvil and their powerful chain. The Fantastic Four are assholes. Madrox the Multiple Man. “Someone knock the original baby unconscious.”
Write in to Pat's Email Corner: mutantmenacepod@gmail.com
Instagram: @mutantmenacepod
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Transcript
Introduction and Current Events
00:00:01
Speaker
I'm Trish Tobey with W.A.R.C. reporting to you live from Westchester, New York, where there appears to be some sort of mutant menace on the loose.
00:00:33
Speaker
Hey, I'm Pat Reber. And I'm Matt Aucamp. And say it with me, Steve. Steve? Pete. Say it with me, Pete. Welcome to Mutant Menace.
00:00:48
Speaker
Whew, that's a good one. that That was a good one. and ah How you doing, Pat? Matt, I'm good. i I just got back from vacation.
Listener Engagement and Feedback
00:00:59
Speaker
An X-Men related vacation? but Sort of. Tragedy struck. Oh, geez. What happened? i I got stung by a bee. It was in my shorts pocket.
00:01:12
Speaker
Why'd you put it in there? i didn't put it in there. why why'd you let Why'd you get a bee in there and to begin with? I don't know how it got in there. That feels like the mistake you made.
00:01:22
Speaker
da wise I mean, you're right about that. The mistake I made was letting a bee into my pocket. I agree. But not knowing that I had made that mistake, it stung. And I thought, this is just like the X-Men on vacation.
00:01:40
Speaker
what's the What's the lesson that you learned from this, though? Don't pour soda in your pockets. Okay, yeah. I mean, I feel like there's a lot of ways you could have learned to that lesson, though.
00:01:51
Speaker
Kids...
00:01:57
Speaker
ah Hey, do we have anything for Pat's email corner? Oh, boy, Matt, we do. We're catching up from vacation, so I've actually got... Thank you for the music.
00:02:09
Speaker
We're going hear first on Pat's email corner from someone I'm affectionately calling Email Michael.
00:02:17
Speaker
ah Email Michael. ah i read I'm ready to hear it. Email Michael ah says, hey, Pat, tell Matt that I also hate the guy who ripped off Jojo. If you remember the story about my old college acquaintance Jojo getting ripped off.
00:02:32
Speaker
Of course I do. Fuck that guy. Not Jojo, but the guy ripped Jojo off. Thank you, Michael. Michael goes on to say, I don't have a story about getting ripped off in any drug deals and certainly none that involve the X-Men, but I could make something up about the tie. Then he goes on to do exactly that to make something up. He reminds us, you never said the story had to be true. So that's true. We should have been really clear about that.
00:02:58
Speaker
Email Mike. you Do you have stories about being ripped? i don't have a story about being ripped off on drugs. One time I got sold drugs that were laced.
00:03:09
Speaker
Ew. But it didn't, it wasn't, they must not have been laced very well because I didn't have really any effects. And I had a friend who bought a a bag of Smarties that were supposed to be dosed with acid.
00:03:24
Speaker
Okay. And of course they weren't. Of course the Smarties would dissolve. Yeah.
00:03:32
Speaker
I don't know what acid looks like or how it works, but I remember going to school and him having the Smarties and just eating the Smarties all day because there was an acid on them.
00:03:43
Speaker
But then some point during the day going, what if there is something on these though? And then having a panic attack. been So I have a novel's worth of stories about people I know that were selling pot and got ripped off. I never sold weed myself. So can't relate.
00:04:02
Speaker
email Michael wrote into us a second time saying, Hey, Pat, tell Matt he was right about both in medias res and esper not being pronounced like ESP or in episode 14.
00:04:15
Speaker
It does mean a person who who does ESP, but it's pronounced the way he said, I know we're in medias res. I always thought that was in media res myself, but I was wrong. And Matt was right.
00:04:26
Speaker
Now I wonder Matt, if he, like I often do has just fallen under your charismatic spell and, And is conceding that he's wrong just because you said he's wrong.
00:04:38
Speaker
No, I'm right. The thing is, Pat, right. He provides a couple of ah Wikipedia links. I am not going to check them. But he does say I gave him a hard time after being wrong about two things in the last episode. But I'm not such a jerk as to not give him credit when he's right.
00:04:54
Speaker
I'm still a jerk, just not to that degree. Well, I appreciate i appreciate you ah telling me stuff I already knew! Email Michael really taking a beating in this one, please. hi I love you. Michael, Michael, as well as any other emails, Pat's email corner.
Vacation Highlights and X-Men Activities
00:05:11
Speaker
You can write in at you menace pod at gmail.com. It sounds like I'm wrapping it up, but I'm not. We have one more. we have Jason. hey Jason. Subject line. Comics have never been political.
00:05:24
Speaker
i I think that's it meant in jest. Another excellent podcast and two plus hours well spent. I think crap C-R-A-P is likely a reference to C-R-P, Nixon's committee for the reelection of the president. ah Creep as it was commonly called.
00:05:40
Speaker
That was part of Watergate and also likely fitting to show up in Captain America right now. No, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. And, uh, Yeah, actually. So we I did some reading over the weekend and absolutely confirmed Steve Englehart when that comic first dropped was kind of forced to say, no, of course, this isn't Richard Nixon. Of course, I'm not portraying Richard Nixon committing suicide in the Oval Office.
00:06:07
Speaker
But then. As soon as the buzz died down, told everyone that he could that, yes, of course, that was Richard Nixon. This was post Watergate, pre resignation. So it really was like the height of people just seeing government corruption on full display.
00:06:23
Speaker
ah So he was very proud to have written Richard Nixon committing suicide in the Oval Office. It's so cool that he did that. It is. It's so cool. We kind of dismissed Steve Englehart as a mediocre writer, but after a little more research, he is ah backbone of Marvel. In the 70s, when they started getting away from their...
00:06:45
Speaker
Old standard crew. ah in came these hippies who loved psychedelics and grew up on like the weird science fiction concepts that Jack Kirby had come up with and were just really about making the Marvel Universe into this world.
00:07:00
Speaker
weird, fantastical, and satirical commentary on the world. So Steve Englehart, good stuff. Yeah, i think that's really I think that's really cool. I think that's right. I don't know that that makes Steve Englehart like a good writer, but it does make him a cool dude, and I'm glad he was part of Marvel.
00:07:19
Speaker
ah You want to know one other interesting thing I learned in my reading, Matt? Yeah, please. Turns out... Right around this time, maybe slightly later, there is a young Frank Miller looking to break into comics. And guess who took him on as his mentor at that time?
00:07:39
Speaker
ah Len Wein. Neil freaking Adams. Oh, really? Yeah. Neil Adams was officially Frank Miller's... literally thought you were building up to Steve Englehart, and that's why I was being a dick about it. Oh, no, no, no. Nice.
00:07:55
Speaker
Just kind of again, is if we're going to confirm that you were right about something, let's confirm that I was also right about something i that Frank Miller took some cues directly from neil Adams because that's right. He was being mentored by Neil Adams.
00:08:11
Speaker
Is that time to end Pat's email corner or do we got more? yeah Jason has a few more comments. The one that I want to point out is, however, like you, I do find the X-Men appearances here lackluster and lethargic. It truly is the Dark Ages.
00:08:26
Speaker
and he also adds his name to the list of folks who might guest host our next episode. We have three now, Matt. Well, Pat, it's definitely time to choose, right?
00:08:38
Speaker
It sure is. will lie It is the time where we this is the last episode before we're going to choose who joins us on that episode. If by the time you're hearing this, you have not gotten an email, you you did not you did not come up on our six-sided diet this time. Yeah, yeah. if the guy If the episode comes out and you're not on it, then...
00:08:59
Speaker
You will know. I think, again, I think by the time they listen to this, they'll know. But hey, maybe you maybe you skip an episode and then you see that there's an episode that you wanted to be on that you're not on.
00:09:12
Speaker
Listen, everybody who submitted their names, we are going to keep you in the rotation. We're going to keep you in the running, rather. And you will will just enter, from now on, we'll just keep entering your names. And if you've stopped listening by that point, then we'll just sheepishly withdraw our invitation when you say, ah sorry, I don't know anything about it.
00:09:34
Speaker
so And we do listen. We would love to get back to every single person that writes into us. It's just we don't have the time with so many entries and so many so many emails. Yeah. well Work to do on the podcast.
00:09:48
Speaker
And all our vacations. And if we select you, you'll definitely hear from us. Well, that was Pat's email corner. Everybody's favorite
00:10:00
Speaker
Segment and theme song. That's true. Matt, let me ask you a question. Okay. Well, is this a personal question or is this a X-Men related question?
00:10:12
Speaker
It could be either. it could be both. Okay. Matt, did you do anything X-Men related this week?
00:10:20
Speaker
um Well, no. I read some X-Men. Okay. So, i remember I told you that, i and I told the listeners, I've been doing a personal X-Men read, and I made it up to like, 1989. And then there's an Excalibur issue that requires reading all the way up Power Pack number 60.
00:10:46
Speaker
And I stopped reading Power Pack way back when they... when they crossed over with the X-Men for a mutant massacre, I think. So I had like 30 some issues of power pack to read.
00:11:00
Speaker
So I have obviously that went very slowly because power pack is not good. It's not a good comic book. But I just caught up. So I'm going to be back to reading the X-Men. All right. um Actually, there was some good. It's it's interesting.
00:11:18
Speaker
Very much like the X-Men, right before Power Pack gets canceled, gets good. Oh, that's a shame. There's a series of issues ah written by Michael Higgins that are like legitimately good comics. So, you know, if you're ever interested in Power Pack, maybe read the first like five issues and the last five issue issues and you're fine.
00:11:44
Speaker
How about you, Pat? did you do anything? Well, you went on vacation. ah Yeah, I went to the beach. Very X-Many. They're always going to the beach.
00:11:55
Speaker
I did a lot of reading. I'm Hank. Hank McCoy. Yeah, that's very X-Men related. And i ah is there an X-Man that loves skeeball?
00:12:06
Speaker
ah maybe in Maybe in some upcoming issues. I don't know. You know, here's something I did. I ate a lot of ice cream. Oh, I did eat a lot of ice cream. which So we're both a lot like Iceman. What else? What does Warren love doing? I didn't lose any fights.
00:12:24
Speaker
Did you take your shirt off? I did take my shirt off a lot. was at the beach. He likes that. um i Were you shy around a girl?
00:12:37
Speaker
No, I was just with my wife. So you're not shy around her. No, I'm not shy. You're not worried. You're not worried that if you take your glasses off around her, you'll blow her face off. I wasn't before.
00:12:53
Speaker
I did read some good comics. I read i i so i went to a ah bunch of antique shops, and there's always that one that sells comic book stuff. So i got, i for $5 each, I got two editions of Alan Moore's The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
00:13:11
Speaker
Oh, cool. I got one issue or one, the first book of Mark Millar's The Ultimates. Had you never read those before? i have read The Ultimates. I have not read any League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, but
Defenders Comic Recaps and Analysis
00:13:27
Speaker
I do love Alan Moore and Holy Cow.
00:13:30
Speaker
What do you think? Yeah, they're very good. They're very ah strange, but nobody knows how to let dialogue flow across and through each page like Alan Moore does. It's really yeah it's really pretty.
00:13:45
Speaker
ah That's awesome. That's exciting. Yeah, is very fun. We are both on some coming off of a holiday weekend energy here, Pat. That's right. We're recording on a Sunday afternoon, which is very unusual for us.
00:13:59
Speaker
Sunday afternoon, the weekend of 4th of July. So both of us are probably a little sleepy. Let's get... We got the Sunday scaries. Here's what will pump us up.
00:14:11
Speaker
ah Pat, what if I tell you... About Defenders number 15, Panic Beneath the Earth. Yes. Yes. So this is.
00:14:22
Speaker
The yeah Defenders. I know. we are in Mm-hmm. nineteen seventy four So we're four years into the X-Men's cancellation, and they are puttering out, right? They went from popping up in the so in Spider-Man and the Avengers to now they've been relegated to the Defenders.
00:14:46
Speaker
ah Yeah, the was so they're not too far removed from the Captain America issues we... read them through This is a a few months after they defeated the secret empire in Captain America, and Richard Nixon shot himself in the Oval Office.
00:15:04
Speaker
So, okay. So, The Defenders actually is a pretty recent creation at Marvel. They were created in 1971 featuring Doctor Strange, Namor, and the Hulk.
00:15:16
Speaker
Apparently, this happened because, um like, Roy Thomas was writing Doctor Strange, I think, and he was in the middle of a story arc when Doctor Strange got canceled.
00:15:26
Speaker
He was like, well, I have to finish the story somewhere. he finished it across a Namor, like a Submariner book and a Hulk book. And then that created the Defenders. So at this point, the team is in flux.
00:15:41
Speaker
Recently, Namor left, being replaced by Nighthawk. ah Valkyrie, who joined in issue number four, had apparently been discussing leaving for several issues.
00:15:51
Speaker
Silver Surfer joined in issue two, but we don't see him. I don't know where. I don't know what he's doing. Hawkeye was around for a few issues right after what we're reading. Luke Cage joins.
00:16:03
Speaker
um The only things that are otherwise that are important to us is that in the 1980s the beast will revamp the team bringing on angel iceman and candy southern yeah into the defenders ranks i think the defenders is a fun revolving door it's a series that's all about what's too weird for the avengers
00:16:28
Speaker
And apparently, yes, sometimes they're this ancillary. Sometimes there they seem to even be like an Avengers reserve team. Like when Beast was running them, he had left the Avengers to right to corral a bunch of superheroes that weren't good enough to be in the Avengers.
00:16:46
Speaker
It's great. Yeah. So this one's number 15. It's written by Len Wein, who apparently only wrote the series for seven issues. And so we're catching him like in the middle of his very short run.
00:16:56
Speaker
Seven beautiful issues. ah Art by Sal Buscema and Klaus Janssen, who inked Frank Miller on The Dark Knight Returns. Yeah, yeah. Frequent Frank Miller collaborator.
00:17:10
Speaker
Colored by Glynis Ween. lettered by george or John Costanza and edited by Roy Thomas. So we got Len Wein, Glynnis Wein's husband.
00:17:22
Speaker
Yes. ah Number one, Glynnis Wein apparently was coloring comics for a very long time at Marvel, and we're just seeing her name pop up now because they finally started giving colors.
00:17:34
Speaker
i Len Wein, holy cow, the inventor Swamp Thing. Yeah. We were just talking about Alan Moore. He, I don't know if you've read it, Matt, but his run on Swamp Thing, Len Wein's, is beautiful.
00:17:50
Speaker
ah He just really, like, builds a world and a strange, vague enough consciousness to let Alan Moore run wild with it and do one of the, I think one of the greatest...
00:18:06
Speaker
comic book runs of all time it is the absolutely it's what got alan moore a young alan moore recognized uh and given the authority to do watchmen like it is just absolutely it's a if you haven't read moore's swamp thing you are doing yourself a disservice it is just about as good as comics can be yeah yeah and Thanks in part to just Wein's really incredible creation of the character.
00:18:34
Speaker
He also creates. way have you say so Yeah, if you say so. Yeah, sure. Yeah, if you say so. I love Len Wein. He is so fucking weird. What I like about Len Wein is how much of a Marvel fan he is. Or just a, not even Marvel fan, how much of a comic book fan he is.
00:18:52
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. he He clearly just loves it. Yeah. All right. um I'll let you, why don't you get to the recap already, Matt? Released June 18th, 1974. The Defenders, Nighthawk, Doctor Strange, and Valkyrie, are at Doctor Strange's Sanctum Sanctorum chatting about Defenders stuff.
00:19:13
Speaker
When Professor X cuts in telepathically, he tells them he has an important mission for him that he can't send them X-Men on because they're busy. Right. Do what they're busy with, Pat?
00:19:25
Speaker
I have no idea. I don't think we touch on it. No. Well, we haven't touched on it yet. So... There's an editor's note that he sent them on a mission in Marvel Team-Up number 23. So I flipped through Marvel Team-Up number 23. It's an Iceman and the Human Torch story.
00:19:44
Speaker
And here's here's how we know the X-Men are on a mission. The X-Men show up. Cyclops blasts Iceman and Human Torch apart while they're fighting.
00:19:57
Speaker
um And he says, Iceman, you've got to come home. We've got like, ah we've got a big mission ahead of us. And Iceman's like, oh, but I'm playing with my friends. And they go, you better be home by midnight because we got stuff to do. And then they get in their Rolls Royce and drive away.
00:20:13
Speaker
This editor's note is just referring to a moment in the comic where the X-Men show up and say, we've got a big secret mission. Yes, exactly exactly. And then they go home to go just like go to sleep.
00:20:28
Speaker
Um, here's the thing about it. The X-Men then don't appear again until giant sized X-Men number one. So that must be what Professor X is referencing here.
00:20:40
Speaker
Yeah. Whatever happens in giant sized X-Men number one. So because the X-Men are busy, he asked the defenders to meet him at Carlsbad Caverns in New Mexico, a very specific location.
00:20:51
Speaker
They fly, they fly there all the way from New York summoning the Hulk from the way and arrive within like an hour. They go into the caves where they're greeted by a big monster who seems impervious to Hulk's punches and to Valkyrie's sword.
00:21:07
Speaker
Despite definitely physically interacting with all of them, like lifting up into the air and stuff, this is just one of Mastermind's illusions. As the defenders find out when they're all electrocuted and the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants steps out of the cave, led by Magneto.
00:21:24
Speaker
Magneto. What? Magneto? ah Yeah, his brotherhood this time is Blob, Mastermind, Eunice, and Lorelei.
00:21:35
Speaker
Okay. huh i Look, man, I i don't know. He killed Toad. He replaced Toad with Lorelei. but wait He always needs one romantic interest on the team. While the Defenders and Professor X are in magnetic stasis, Magneto gives them a what I did on my summer vacation report.
00:21:57
Speaker
Apparently, when the Avengers beat his ass, they put him in a bubble in the center of the earth or something to nullify his yeah powers. But a comet shifted the magnetic blah, blah, blah. He escaped and found and ancient civilization deep underground. He hung out there for a long time, reading their books and studying their machines until he found out some big secret.
00:22:19
Speaker
So he reorganized the Brotherhood, restored Lorelei, and now he's growing some ultimate mutant in a glass tube. who That was the secret, by the way, the ultimate mutant, how to grow an ultimate mutant. You've read a book by an ancient civilization that said how to grow and the ultimate mutant in a glass tube. It was one of those one of those little boxes.
00:22:41
Speaker
You know, you can subscribe to those boxes for kids and they give them a science ah science project every week. Yeah, yeah. Kiwi crate. build a grow an ultimate mutant anyway professor x then uses the power of everyone's thoughts to break the stasis field and they hop out and have a big fight i so just to zoom in on this a little bit yeah professor x says my thoughts are basically electricity so is magneto's magnetic powers and
00:23:14
Speaker
My thoughts can be increased if I connect with you all psychically and we all think of the same single thought. If we think the same thing, our electric will be so strong that Magneto can't hold us. is Exactly.
00:23:31
Speaker
What was that single thought?
00:23:37
Speaker
ah They don't mention it. Yeah. i mean Well, it'd have to be something you could really, really focus on. It's got to be simple enough for the Hulk. Or actually, I'm sorry. They explained that the Hulk doesn't understand what's going on. So he's not included. The narrator, like Len Wein says, Hulk is too stupid for this.
00:23:54
Speaker
Don't worry about him. What are Nighthawk, Doctor Strange, Valkyrie, and Professor X all thinking about? What do they all like so much?
00:24:06
Speaker
MutantMenacePod at gmail.com. Yeah. Yeah. The defenders gain the upper hand against the Brotherhood and charge Magneto. But they're a moment too late because the mutant maker is ready and out steps to be continued. i Yeah.
00:24:27
Speaker
What do you think? Matt. oh Is. Yeah. Is this another realm beneath the earth? Or.
00:24:38
Speaker
i I don't know. and I wonder, this is the exact same story of Grotesque's civilization, right? but Yes. Yeah, he comes to the remains of an ancient civilization. That was super high tech.
00:24:52
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. But has been fallen into ruins. And had was known to enhance themselves, right? Yes. So, yeah, this very well could have been. And Len Wein, being a huge comic book fan. all Right.
00:25:09
Speaker
Would know of grotesque activities. That was my honestly, it was my first thought. But I mean, had we not just read that like a month ago, i would never I would have just been like, oh, another one of these guys. Absolutely not.
00:25:25
Speaker
ah well Len Wein actually has these guys fucking down, I think. Like, yeah. Blob sounds like Blob, Eunice sounds like Eunice, and they don't just sound like generic thugs, right?
00:25:37
Speaker
Magneto sounds insane and ranting, but also like an ideologue. um Yeah, yeah. It's very in character and also very sort of the base of the further characterization we're going to get from Magneto.
00:25:54
Speaker
Right. I think there's a lot here. Like, I think that Len Wein sat down and thought, unlike but unlike maybe a Roy Thomas or a Mike Friedrich or something, I think Len Wein sat down and was like, what do these guys sound like? And what what perspective are they coming at things from?
00:26:12
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Like when Kyle Richman... calls himself the boy tycoon. Calls himself boy tycoon. Kyle Richmond, boy tycoon. Yeah, this is, so this is Nighthawk. He, he,
00:26:26
Speaker
It's like Valkyrie wants a place to store her horse. And he's like, don't worry, this is a job but for Kyle Richman, boy tycoon. You're a grown man. He's calling himself boy tycoon. He also has like big fake wings on and he shows us that they are just for show and he hides jet pack underneath them.
00:26:50
Speaker
And somehow the jetpack flies him all the way all the way from New York to New Mexico. e Can you not do that with a jetpack? No.
00:27:01
Speaker
No, a jetpack can go like... how Okay, let's look. The longest ever jetpack flight was 26 miles, and how long do you think it took him? i An hour.
00:27:14
Speaker
You got to raise that time by quite a bit, Patrick. Five hours. Five hours? So I guess he's going five miles an hour.
00:27:28
Speaker
but Yet Nighthawk somehow gets from New York City to Carlsbad Caverns. It was night. This is the thing. That gets me. It was night outside, right?
00:27:39
Speaker
When the defenders left the Sanctum Sanctorum in New York. Okay. It was still night outside when they got to Carlsbad Caverns in New Mexico, which is, Pat, literally 2,000 miles away.
00:27:52
Speaker
Okay. Well, they're on mountain time. So, factor in two hours for that. You can add a couple hours. And nighttime is roughly what?
00:28:04
Speaker
In the summer? It's like eight hours long. In the winter, it's like 11. Yeah, sure. So, okay. so it's So, if they left, it's a winter night. They left at 6 p.m.
00:28:18
Speaker
as soon as it got dark. It's in 13 hours. he has 13 hours to travel miles. So 2,000 miles divided by 13, he would still have to be going 153 miles an hour, which is 30 times the world record for a jetpack.
00:28:38
Speaker
That's got to be tough because... He doesn't have anything covering the bottom half of his face. So he's just inhaling just wearing like a cowl. So yeah, that's... And that hurts if you've ever like stuck your arm out of the car on a highway going fast.
00:28:55
Speaker
And I've never gone 153 miles an hour while a bug hit my filled my lower face. Me neither. Interesting. Here's the thing, Matt.
00:29:07
Speaker
How long do you think it would take Batman to get there with a jetpack? Batman doesn't i have a jetpack as far as I'm aware. Yeah, but if he created one with the purpose of getting from New York to New Mexico.
00:29:24
Speaker
Oh, 13 hours probably. So Nighthawk, what you may not realize, i don't know if you know who Nighthawk is. He is just Batman.
00:29:36
Speaker
He comes from the Squadron Sinister, which were introduced as Avengers villains that were meant to be a direct parody of the Justice League. So Nighthawk is Batman. Hyperion is the Superman of the Marvel Universe.
00:29:52
Speaker
They have a Doctor Spectrum who is just Green Lantern. And they have Whizzer who is just a Flash. Oh. Huh. Okay. This is we're in sort of the the wacky fun phase of Marvel. And this was just like ah meant to be a joke in an Avengers comic where you can still take them seriously. But a couple of them were fairly popular.
00:30:21
Speaker
i And so Nighthawk got looped into the the Defenders. And Hyperion, I think also eventually becomes an Avenger at some point. Yes.
00:30:32
Speaker
Yeah. Not to be confused with the other Superman of the Marvel Universe. Sentry. The Sentry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, anyway, these guys come from Earth 712, Matt, which is apparently just a parody universe of the DC comic universe.
00:30:49
Speaker
Well, I love love Nighthawk. He really does a lot in this issue. He says a lot. Yeah. Yeah, he really doesn't do much of anything at all. He he he callss he calls his butler and has him buy a horse farm.
00:31:05
Speaker
That's basically all he does. He does also get used as a missile. An unconscious missile. Yeah. By Professor X. This is incredibly funny.
00:31:17
Speaker
They are both under Lorelai's spell. Professor X, because he has a more powerful mind, has enough juice left to resist it to the point of just flipping on Nighthawk's jetpack and sending him propelling straight into Lorelai to tackle her.
00:31:35
Speaker
ah Yeah. It's pretty good. It's pretty good. Pretty good, Matt. but not quite as good as defenders. Number 16.
00:31:47
Speaker
Alpha, the ultimate mutant. Ooh. Uh, Len Wein writer, Sal Buscema artist, M Esposito, anchor, Glynis, ween colorist, C jetter letterer, and Roy Thomas, eder editor, editor, at editor, July 1974 cover date, October, 1974, uh,
00:32:05
Speaker
released eight july sixteen nineteen seventy four cover date october nineteen seventy four Alpha, the ultimate mutant. Oh, that's okay. All That's what emerges from the glass tube that Magneto is creating.
00:32:20
Speaker
And his big force field is impervious to both bolts of bedevilment and ruby rays of ragador. No way. It's serious. no No way is it impervious to both.
00:32:32
Speaker
Magneto, refusing Blob's suggestion to have Alpha kill everyone, traps the heroes by covering the exit in rocks and having Alpha teleport the Brotherhood away. Obviously, the defenders immediately dig their way out and go chasing after him back to New York City.
00:32:47
Speaker
I want to say we're using the term dig very loosely here. ok Hulk punches. Valkyrie hits the rocks with a sword. Stabs.
00:32:58
Speaker
They fight. They fight the rocks.
00:33:04
Speaker
Yeah, Dr. Strange uses magic beams and everyone else just watches. a back Back in New York City, Magneto bursts into the United Nations building and takes the podium, demanding that all humans see control of Earth over to all mutants. He loves the United Nations building.
00:33:23
Speaker
You can't stay away. They even mention, they're like, oh, this guy's back. Yeah, this guy again. Yeah. When they say no, he has Alpha telekinetically lift the building up into the air.
00:33:35
Speaker
One guy falls into the hole that this creates and dies, I guess. ah The Defenders arrive, invisible to the crowds, thanks to Doctor Strange's magic, and they fly up to the floating UN n tower where Magneto is telling everyone that he won't let them down until they give him a piece of paper that makes him ruler of everything.
00:33:55
Speaker
i Very mature. very Very adult plan. Very sophisticated plan. Write it down. i won't let you down until you write write it down that I am your ruler.
00:34:07
Speaker
ruler ah He demands that Alpha fight off the defenders, though Alpha begins to become more and more hesitant about the idea. Magneto tells him the defenders are evil and so it's all good.
00:34:20
Speaker
But Professor X notices Alpha is also becoming more humanoid and his head is expanding. So he decides to try and reason with him, telling Alpha that Magneto is the evil one.
00:34:31
Speaker
So Alpha decides to read everyone's souls and determines that, yes, Magneto is the evil one. He apologizes for everything he did, puts the UN n building back. I guess he's if that man's not dead, he just crushed him and erases the whole thing from all the humans' minds.
00:34:48
Speaker
He determines that he's evolving at a ridiculous pace and doesn't belong on Earth, so he flies into space. leaving behind Magneto and the Brotherhood, who he has turned into crying little diaper babies.
00:35:00
Speaker
Literally, they're babies now, Matt. The end. Okay. so All right. first First thing. I guess souls are real?
00:35:15
Speaker
It's... you Yeah. Okay, I guess souls... All right. In the Marvel Universe, it is... By now, I don't know if it had been established at this time, but it is well established that souls are real.
00:35:27
Speaker
Yeah. Number two. Len Wein keeps calling me tiger. Was that in your issue? Yes. So he's calling everybody tiger. So no matter who you are, when you read this, Len Wein is calling you a tiger.
00:35:43
Speaker
I really wish he would stop. He did it a lot. This might be ah roy Thomas insisting and as editor that it gets inserted here. Yeah, he used to call us Tiger. And now Len Wein, Glynis Wein's husband, is calling us Tiger.
00:35:59
Speaker
Len, Len, this is great. You got to call him Tiger more. When was writing.
00:36:10
Speaker
ah Matt, what thoughts on this issue? Oh, man. I love that when comic books have to establish that something's multicultural, they just do it. They do it by having a ton of people just yell things that are like cliches of their nationality.
00:36:30
Speaker
Like at one point, somebody yells, God in Himmel! And somebody else yells, By the eyes of Allah! Which is not not a real expression. Absolutely not. No one says that. No one's ever said that.
00:36:44
Speaker
People could say things like, oh, we're all equal in the eyes of Allah. Or ah you will be judged in the eyes of Allah one day. I feel like that's something that Doctor Strange would exclaim.
00:36:55
Speaker
Well, fucking throughout. All right. There's another thing. Doctor Strange. It's like, does he have a quota? It's like, oh, I have to mention every magical entity every day and I can only mention them once.
00:37:08
Speaker
So he has a whole Rolodex. It's like by the Vashanti, by the vapors of Valtor, by the shades of the Seraphim, all things he says in this issue. And in last issue, he yelled other things.
00:37:22
Speaker
Yeah, I imagine he gets paid by the buy the mention, but only once per day, right? The ah the ad limits. Right. It's like um Golden Casino. What was the one where they were at that ah online casino that was paying people to like tattoo their names on their faces and stuff?
00:37:39
Speaker
Oh, right. But only once. You can only do it once. how How did you feel about this issue? I i you fucking loved it.
00:37:50
Speaker
I think it was a little directionless. or that Directionless just ah seemed purposeless for a little while. And then Alpha, the ultimate mutant, transforms into a god.
00:38:07
Speaker
yes Weighs everyone's souls on a cosmic scale. And then comes back and says, Magneto, you lied to me. It's so it's so like this is such little kid stuff which is what i love about it magneto holds the un n above everyone's heads and it's like i'm not gonna give this to you until you sign a piece of paper all of you saying i'm the god of ruler of earth king of the world and he's just like holding it's like holding a toy above their head so they can't reach it and then and then professor x and magneto have an argument about who's the evil one
00:38:46
Speaker
No, he's evil. no he's the evil one. no And then Alpha gets upset because Magneto lied to him. He's like, you lied to It's so And he turns the whole brotherhood into babies. So then he turns them into babies! It is like Len Wein, Glynis Wein's husband, and Glynis Wein had a baby who wrote this story for them.
00:39:13
Speaker
was Just playing with their action figures. Yeah, and they're like they're just like they're hiding around the corner like, oh, this is good stuff. Oh, I thought this was so much fun. it is just I think it's fun, yeah, for sure. It's so weird. You start with...
00:39:30
Speaker
alpha the ultimate mutant being born is he ah mutant is he a godling is he from a long dead alien race these are all mentioned in the first two pages and declaratively is this is what he is yeah and by the end yes he is all three of them yeah they say it about they say it again yeah he is a mutant he is certainly a godling and yeah he came from a long dead alien race i He comes out as a newborn.
00:39:57
Speaker
Yeah. With the like, he can walk. He looks sort of like a giant baby, ah giant baby. And he can barely talk. He's like infant level because he evolves very quickly.
00:40:10
Speaker
Charles x Xavier commands the and intent commands the defenders to murder him. You have to kill him. You have to kill this baby.
00:40:23
Speaker
And then he he starts using his power. He exponentially evolves each time he uses his power, which has a natural endpoint here. there's no There's no way out of this story other than having him evolve his way off of Earth. Otherwise, this is going extremely unwranglable. Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:47
Speaker
And so that's exactly what he does. He just fucks off. He's like, ah Earth is pretty stupid now that I've evolved over the course of one day. He is a. He's an.
00:41:05
Speaker
Is he an interesting character or is he just a bizarre character? Like I'm having trouble. It's an interesting concept. Yeah. And it is explored fully, but very quickly.
00:41:17
Speaker
I think he comes back though, right? ah That would be sick. I would love to see him again in the future and see what's become of him. I don't know if he ever appears in X-Men again, but I think he is like, I think he pops up in Marvel Comics sometimes.
00:41:33
Speaker
Okay. I believe you. i
00:41:39
Speaker
What did you think about the Defenders? like this is We haven't really run into these Well, we've run into the Hulk a lot and I was just saying something ridiculous We've run into the Hulk and Doctor Strange I think this is a very awkward team These people don't seem to like each other But they do respect each other's power Except for Nighthawk, they don't respect him Well, what Nighthawk's power?
00:42:05
Speaker
Narration, as far as I can tell no family He has shattering skill and agility. oh right, right, right. And he's a boy tycoon.
00:42:18
Speaker
Well, there's that moment where Valkyrie cries over the Hulk when she will randomly decides he's dead. Okay. They punch their way out of a mountain. Then they have Hulk hold the mountain up so that they can all sneak through.
00:42:35
Speaker
And then the stuff that he's already holding starts crumbling and buries him for a second. And Valkyrie literally cries into Doctor Strange's shoulder as they all comfort each other because they're all sure Hulk is dead.
00:42:50
Speaker
know And then the next page, he just walks out. And he's like, oh, hey. They truly don't know Hulk. Hulk is confused that they're crying because he's like, what? It was...
00:43:02
Speaker
A mountain fell on top of me. that's A mountain that I was just holding. Yeah, I'm fine. i do this all the time. You should have seen when I did it to Lorna Dane.
00:43:14
Speaker
i think I think it makes it clear that these are like crocodile tears, right? They're just dry. they're We lost a person that was on this little mishmash team.
00:43:25
Speaker
should be crying for him. Yeah, I don't think that was sincere, but I do. And this is one of my favorite things about Hulk. I think Hulk considers each one of them a dear friend.
00:43:36
Speaker
Yeah. And that is my favorite form of Hulk when he recognizes a friend. i think it's just it's pure joy. it is childlike innocence. Yeah.
00:43:48
Speaker
How do you feel about them all turning into babies at the end? the The babyhood of evil mutants? this is This is actually, like, this is a plot point that is going to come up in Magneto's greater story later on. Not just... Oh, I can't wait. it's gonna come up It's going to come up again kind of soon, right? When it's just like, oh, how does he stop being a baby? If he ever does...
00:44:12
Speaker
But it's going to come up later in a very like significant, globally significant way in the Marvel Universe. Is he going to show up as a 12 year old, but with the wisdom and experience of Magneta?
00:44:27
Speaker
Well, I guess we'll have to find out. I can't wait. It is a departure from the typical existentially terrifying endings they give these villains. They, and Doctor Strange says it himself, Alpha the Ultimate Mutant has given them all a second chance at life.
00:44:44
Speaker
Yeah. Bound them back to babyhood. There's an interesting thing. Like, I know how, I know what happens to Magneto after this.
00:44:56
Speaker
And they know what I know like what the stories of these other characters are after this. But I don't know how they get from being turned to babies to those stories.
00:45:08
Speaker
Well, I'm sure we will theorize about it. and The next time we see them, yeah. It's very strange. But that's, yeah, that is a part of all of these characters.
00:45:20
Speaker
Blob, Mastermind, Lorelai, Eunice, and Magneto's stories is that one time they became babies again. and Yeah. Real quick, just because we didn't mention this talking shit about Nighthawk, and I think it deserves mentioning. Number one, he does not help dig. Everybody digs except for Nighthawk.
00:45:40
Speaker
Yeah. Number two, he says, Holy Hannah.
00:45:47
Speaker
He's a bad person. Not ingratiating himself. Not ingratiating himself to Pat Reber. Hey, do you want to do you want me to tell you, rather, about Incredible Hulk number 180 and the wind
Wolverine's Introduction and Impact
00:46:03
Speaker
howls?
00:46:03
Speaker
Wendigo! i e i do, Matt, but can you please skip over the boring stuff? Okay, well, that's going to be... Hold on.
00:46:17
Speaker
right. I cut it all out. All right. Let's go. Released on July 2nd, 1974. Written by Len Wein, Glynis Wein's husband. Art by Herb Trimpey. Herb Trimpey?
00:46:31
Speaker
Inked by Jack Abel. What? Trimp. Like shrimp? It's Herb Trimp? I think I'm assuming, yeah. herb herb herb trim herb trim inked by jack inked by jack abel ah lettered by arty simac colored by glenis ween edited by roy thomas all right here's what happens in this issue hulk stuff uh then there's hulk stuff and there's more hulk stuff then some canadian military guy says he's gonna mobilize weapon x
00:47:04
Speaker
Hulk fights dogs. The military says some stuff. A lady named Maria is summoning Hulk against the urging of some guy named George. But she's upset because her brother Paul ate human flesh and turned into the Wendigo.
00:47:18
Speaker
And she wants to save him by transferring the Wendigo into Hulk. Gross. She fucks up. So Hulk fights Wendigo for a while. But then, Pat, this is where the issue comes alive.
00:47:30
Speaker
who Ooh. It's in the very last page.
00:47:36
Speaker
Someone off panel tells them to hold it. If they want to fight someone, why not try your luck against me? He says, that's a bad. Can you, what's your best Wolverine?
00:47:49
Speaker
I'm doing Bowen Yang's voice. So what why not try your luck against me?
00:47:58
Speaker
A mysterious cowed figure in yellow and blue bare arms and three metal claws extending from each of his hand who calls himself the Wolverine! Woo!
00:48:11
Speaker
That was of such a fucking boring issue. Hulk is so boring. Hulk is such a boring... What entrance, though. He's like, this comic's boring. I'm here now.
00:48:24
Speaker
This is... It's real wacky. I don't think it's boring in the same way... i mean, okay. About half of it is boring in the same way that other Hulk comics we've had to read have been boring, where it's just the Hulk, the military talking about the Hulk, and then the Hulk fighting a creature...
00:48:40
Speaker
yeah yeah Then the other half is this strange mystic yeah borrowed legend with its own in-universe lore. Yeah, i I enjoy, well, I mean, besides it being clearly appropriative, i still enjoy it.
00:49:01
Speaker
I enjoy the idea of, I like the concept of Wendigo myth. Yeah, yeah. If you don't know, if people don't know, um it's a legend that comes from several different Algonquian language Native American tribes across what's now Canada and across New England. um It's basically a creature that possesses you if you eat human flesh.
00:49:22
Speaker
So you don't usually get this direct of a function in myth, but this is so very clearly the function is to reinforce the cannibalism taboo.
00:49:34
Speaker
That's the added part to this, right? No, eating human flesh is part of the original myth. But the the added is that he looks big and hairy and furry and like a Yeti.
00:49:48
Speaker
um The original part is just if you eat human flesh. And again, this is a couple different myths from different Algonquian ah language tribes.
00:50:01
Speaker
But it is... If you eat human flesh, you will be possessed by this evil creature. um And it takes the form of it it doesn't look again, it doesn't look like a big Sasquatch guy.
00:50:14
Speaker
It's more like pale and desiccated ah looking um kind of similar to like a vampire or a revenant from, um you know, ah European mythology. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. um But this one is Bigfoot.
00:50:29
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. free um it's It's hard to tell where that entered the the frame in its first appearance in colonial fiction appears to be ah in Algernon Blackwood's The Wendigo in 1910. Have you ever read Algernon Blackwood?
00:50:47
Speaker
No. He's a very descriptive sort of like the same school of late gothic horror writers as like ah HP Lovecraft.
00:50:58
Speaker
Okay. Very descriptive, builds his own myths or borrows his own myths. Likely this was appropriating the otherness of the native american like oh this is a creepy scary savage in the northern woods right like that kind of thing um it is a good creepy story though like if you could put that aside algernon blackwoods the wendigo is very a very good one good one it's very creepy what does the myth say about it shouting its own name over and over again like a pokemon
00:51:33
Speaker
ah yeah i Unfortunately, not much. um What do you know about the creation of Wolverine?
00:51:43
Speaker
ah Well, here he is. He just got invented. Do you know how he came about?
00:51:51
Speaker
i You mentioned, i think it was last episode or the episode before, that Roy Thomas wanted to expand into the international market, and they did very well in Canada, so they needed a Canadian superhero.
00:52:04
Speaker
Yeah, that is, that's correct. And so. Sorry if I stole your thunder. No, no, no. i wanted I wanted you to. um Testing to see if I'm paying attention.
00:52:16
Speaker
ah No, they, Roy Thomas basically just said, I want a Canadian character and he want him to be called Wolverine. And John Romita Sr.? drew his original costume.
00:52:29
Speaker
Ooh. And then Len Wein kind of came up with this, this concept of, oh, because he's a Wolverine. He's fast and he's fierce and he's mean and he's, he's still a hero, but he's angry. And he's, he's like, what makes him a hero is his struggle to control his anger.
00:52:51
Speaker
The claws were supposed to be on the gloves. Those were supposed to be adamantium gloves with adamantium claws attached. and They weren't supposed to be coming out of his actual body.
00:53:04
Speaker
And Herb Trimp also refused to take credit for Wolverine's design because of John Romita Sr. they But they did invent Wolverine with the idea of bringing him into the X-Men if the X-Men international team ever actually happened.
00:53:20
Speaker
That's interesting, Matt, because across these three issues, there is no mention whatsoever of mutants. Yeah, I mean, he's supposed he was a mutant. he was supposed to be his mute But his mutant power was like he was able to take a hit from Hulk.
00:53:37
Speaker
And jump around really fast. Like that was supposed to be his power. Not the healing factor. The senses were there. And the speed and agility. And resilience.
00:53:49
Speaker
Yeah. yeah But if you are. an X-Men fan. In July of 1974. And you pick this up. Because Hulk is just a very well so ah very good selling title. And there's no X-Men comics to read. yeah You have no idea. What this is setting up.
00:54:05
Speaker
Right, exactly. you must You must be very shocked when this two-bit Hulk character just suddenly shows up in ah in the new X-Men.
00:54:16
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Oh, we're getting into it now. and And it wasn't even supposed to be Len Wein that wrote that X-Men story team team. It was supposed to be Mike Friedrich. Oh.
00:54:27
Speaker
He was supposed to come back. Interesting. Yeah. Well, sorry, Mike. Sorry, Mike. Anything else? You missed out on a lot of money. but No, because this story was boring. That's why i'm all I'm doing is giving you background that I know.
00:54:42
Speaker
and This story sucked.
00:54:46
Speaker
Should we move on to Incredible Hulk number 181? And now, and now, the Wolverine. No, one more thing. No, yeah, of course.
00:54:58
Speaker
Okay. Let's move on. Written by Len Wein, penciled by Herb Trimp, inked by Jack Abel, Christy Scheel, colorist. No idea who that is. Artie Symec, letterer. Of course I know who that is.
00:55:10
Speaker
And Roy Thomas, editor. Release date July 1974. Cover date November
00:55:17
Speaker
This mysterious, the Wolverine, leaps into battle, explaining that the Canadian government has sent him to take out Hulk. But, even with his adamantium claws, Wolverine is unable to slice through Hulk's skin, so instead, he turns his attention to the Wendigo.
00:55:32
Speaker
Wendigo is simply no match for the Wolverine, and starts getting his ass beat. Hulk sees this and mistakes it as an offer of friendship from Wolverine, jumping back into the fight with joy. It is adorable.
00:55:48
Speaker
They team up and Wolverine eventually stabs Wendigo to death. Yeah. Don't worry though. Wendigo is actually immortal. There's a very fun, i comics code authority moment here where Wendigo is pure white and they explain that he's defeated by Wolverine, just slicing the shit out of him and eventually doing the, the classic double hand stab through the chest and Yeah. he does not have a drop of blood on him because they are not allowed to show that.
00:56:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Basking in the glory of the fight, Hulk still doesn't understand that Wolverine is not his friend and catches a sucker punch to the face. They fight a bunch, seemingly to a stalemate, while the Canadian government watches from a tower and worries about their weapon Yeah.
00:56:38
Speaker
Meanwhile, Marie and Georges have dragged Wendigo's corpse into a cave. Despite Georges' objections, Marie is trying to cast at Georges. I think it's Georges. Like more than one Georges.
00:56:51
Speaker
Okay. I think it's Georges. But it's that's, hey, look. This is your recap to read. What country are we in? Canada or France, Matt?
00:57:02
Speaker
But we're in Quebec. Okay, yeah.
00:57:07
Speaker
Marie is trying to cast a subjugation spell on the Hulk to transfer the Wendigo curse from her brother into him. She calls it magic, but it just creates knockout cast that knocks out the Hulk and Wolverine while they fight.
00:57:20
Speaker
But when the Hulk transforms unconscious back into Robert Bruce Banner, Georges finally puts his foot down about casting a curse on a fellow man and wanders off deeper into the cave.
00:57:33
Speaker
Marie tries to handle the magic ritual herself, but when RBB comes to and transforms back into the Hulk, Robert Bruce Banner, RBB comes to and transforms back into the Hulk who is hurt by Marie's betrayal. When he sees what's happening instead of attacking her though, he goes straight for the Wolverine and the scrap resumes after some back and forth. Hulk returns Wolverine's cheap shot from earlier in the issue and manages to knock him unconscious.
00:58:00
Speaker
He now turns his attention back to Marie, who has run back into the cave. He finds Marie standing next to a new Wendigo. George's sacrificed himself and took on Marie's brother's Wendigo curse.
00:58:15
Speaker
He confesses his love for Marie before losing what's left of his human consciousness and running off into the woods. Marie is devastated. Instead of seeking revenge, the Hulk feels empathy for her and puts a reassuring hand on her shoulder.
00:58:28
Speaker
Hmm.
00:58:30
Speaker
It's actually a pretty good story. It is. It's not... It have been told better. This is not Len Wein at his best.
00:58:42
Speaker
Hulk is just... Yeah? I thought that the pacing here was really incredible. and like Wolverine is super chatty here, which I think i they flesh out as they evolve his character, but the story they tell and the way that they pace it out between the...
00:59:01
Speaker
Fight with Wolverine, the Hulk, and Wendigo. And then the mystic stuff that Marie and Georges are trying to do. It's really what' so well balanced that when they come together, it makes perfect sense. And then you kind of just follow the story to its natural end.
00:59:16
Speaker
I think maybe it's the the just massive amounts of dialogue and narration that get me here. Yeah, i mean it's wordy. Oh, okay. Do you want to know something else about Wolverine in this issue?
00:59:30
Speaker
Yeah. Len Wein intended him to be a teenager. No way. This Wolverine that we're reading is teenager.
00:59:41
Speaker
It's a much stronger case for my Bow and Yang for Wolverine campaign. And it's private like it seems like through this, his primary trait is that he's fast.
00:59:53
Speaker
And yeah at some point he says, you know how later it'll become a Wolverine thing? I'm the best at what I do, but what I do is not very nice. Yeah, and this in this he describes what that thing is in this issue, and he says it's moving.
01:00:09
Speaker
Moving is the thing that I do best, he says. Moving is the thing that I do best.
01:00:19
Speaker
It is. it's He's very agile. And yet there's no discussion of a healing factor. There's no discussion of an adamantium skeleton. Though he does take a punch from the Hulk to the face.
01:00:33
Speaker
That's true. and While he's lying on the ground. Yeah, and he's fine. If you say anybody else, this would have killed. But don't worry, Wolverine's okay. Yeah, eventually that does make sense, right? In this issue, it was intended to be like, oh, he's got he's super resilient.
01:00:49
Speaker
Yeah, and agile enough to turn a killing blow into a glancing blow. Right. But eventually this will make sense because he's got an adamantium skeleton, so the Hulk couldn't crush that.
01:01:02
Speaker
Like, he wouldn't have been able to crush Wolverine's brain. Yeah. Protected by the skull. But ah any damage done to the other tissue would have been healed right away. Yeah, well, I mean, it still fits, right?
01:01:15
Speaker
This counts. Yeah, absolutely. There's one, this is this blew my mind, just knowing what we know about Wolverine to this point. It is, yeah i think, fully established here. This is unbelievable how much this just tracks his entire trajectory as a character.
01:01:33
Speaker
The Canadian government is in a tower worrying about Weapon X, and they say, The government has spent a great deal of time, effort, and money developing that mutant's natural-born speed, strength, and salary into the skills of a professional warrior, and despite the few kinks still remaining in his psychological makeup, I think we've done a pretty good job.
01:01:56
Speaker
Pat, do you realize what you just said? Yeah, I wrote it down. Despite the time, effort, and money we've put into that, what?
01:02:08
Speaker
uh spent a great deal of time effort and money developing that mutants natural born speed strength and savagery into the developing developing that mutants natural born speed oh you're right do you say it fact here it's just weird that the narrator doesn't say it when the narrators always tell you when somebody's a mutant always always always almost as if it's like uh problematic But I think there some separate statements. The government has spent a great deal of time, effort, and money. It's a huge part of Wolverine's past.
01:02:43
Speaker
Totally. Natural born speed, strength, and savagery. That is just who he is and what he draws from when he makes decisions. Into the skills of a professional warrior, which is, yeah again, a huge base of his past.
01:02:59
Speaker
And despite the few kinks still remaining in his psychological makeup, Wolverine's very kinky. He's really into S&M, bondage, foot stuff. I think we've done a pretty good job is maybe the one that doesn't really define. I mean, they did a pretty good job.
01:03:20
Speaker
Yeah, well. Despite the kinks in his psychological makeup.
01:03:25
Speaker
So here's the thing. I don't know why I do this. I did this with Red Raven, that Red Raven story too. I keep a secret from you and reveal it on the podcast. And I don't know why I do that. It's not like it. I don't know that it benefits us.
01:03:40
Speaker
But Pat, I have a secret. What? I watched the Hulk versus Wolverine cartoon. oh yeah. based on this um but it's interesting it was made in like 2009 yeah 2009 yeah they were doing like a whole hulk versus series hey this was the era when dc was kicking ass with its with its cartoons and marvel was like hey we want to kick ass with our cartoons and they just kind of weren't as successful but this one was good
01:04:12
Speaker
so The Hulk versus Wolverine, it tells this story, but it starts with Wolverine out of costume, coordinating with the Canadian military.
01:04:24
Speaker
And it kind of draws a distinction between the Canadian military and the department, ah like the Weapon X program. Yeah, yeah. He goes out to fight Hulk.
01:04:36
Speaker
He wins. And then Sabretooth, Lady Deathstrike, Deadpool, and Omega Red show up on behalf of Weapon X to kidnap both the Hulk and Wolverine.
01:04:53
Speaker
Okay. Then it's like it starts to tell a little bit of like the Barry Windsor Smith Weapon X story, the origin of Wolverine. And then it's like a story about them escaping and beating up those other Weapon X mutants. Weapon Xers.
01:05:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. um it's ah It's cute. it's it's It's kind of fun. it is a real mishmash of different X-Men stories altogether.
01:05:22
Speaker
but Check it out it's ah It's a very it's a vision it's very ah visually stunning representation of this story. Yeah, yeah.
01:05:32
Speaker
I think I watched that a long, long time. Probably close to when it came out. I think I did too, because I recognized the last scene of that cartoon is Hulk and Wolverine leap towards each other to fight again, and then it cuts.
01:05:50
Speaker
And I was like, oh, I remember this. Just like the end of ah Rocky II. ah Yeah, exactly. I think they were going off the Rocky II model. Hey, Pat, do you want me to tell you about the follow-up to this, Hulk number 182?
01:06:06
Speaker
i I guess only if you skip over the stuff that you find boring and I find absolutely fascinating. All right, so, Incredible Hulk number 182, called Who Cares? Written by Who Cares and drawn by Who Cares. Release date, Who Cares?
01:06:23
Speaker
Recap. September 3rd, 1974. Wolverine has failed at stopping the Hulk in the six hours allotted to him. So the Canadian military is there to pick him up. He whines as he gets into a weird capsule and is pulled up into a helicopter. Then Hulk stuff happens for the rest of the issue.
01:06:39
Speaker
Boring. Who cares? Absolutely incorrect. Absolutely. I'm sorry, Matt. And I'm not going to recap the whole thing, but the rest of this issue is nuts. didn't actually read it. i was like, I do not want to read Hulk stuff.
01:06:55
Speaker
I don't like this. And in the epic collection, it's not even there. It's good. It doesn't belong. Nobody should go and read this.
01:07:05
Speaker
it is one of those comics that we read so you don't have to. Len Wein, in the opening page, is openly complaining about editorial decisions saying, they made me do these things.
01:07:19
Speaker
The Hulk befriends a racist caricature of a hobo named Crackerjack Sam. He fights a pair of escaped convicts, which are Racist characters in their own right ah who are chained together because they escaped prison. But they find an alien that looks like a jack-o'-lantern that I have never seen before. I think he was made up for this moment.
01:07:43
Speaker
he's He's got a jack-o'-lantern on his chest. but He looks exactly almost exactly like Powdered Toast Man and from Ren and Steve. Sure, but with a big, flat top to his extremely circular head.
01:07:58
Speaker
Right. right but ahead Perfectly circular width wise, perfectly flat on top. But like a head that's too big for his like powdered Toastman's very powdered Toastman. Yeah. No idea where this guy comes from or why he's here, but he powers up the chain that links them two Cut stuffh huh He doesn't release them from their chains.
01:08:25
Speaker
He just powers the chain up. And then they spend the rest of the issue cutting through things together using their chain. And they try to do it to the Hulk.
01:08:37
Speaker
This all happens in one issue. So this is like a new supervillain team is two escaped convicts. So the escaped convicts. Who are chained together.
01:08:50
Speaker
And their chain super powered. Yes, except the chained convicts are established low level villains. That's the part that Len Wein is complaining about being forced to include them in his Hulk story by the editors.
01:09:04
Speaker
Who are they? ah So one is hammer and the other is anvil. I'm pretty sure um not 100% on which one's which, but I'm pretty sure anvil is the white supremacist and hammer is the militant, angry black man.
01:09:30
Speaker
Cool. Yeah. Really, really bizarre stuff. Yeah, that is that is all very weird. It sounds racist in a couple different ways.
01:09:42
Speaker
It's all very not racist in 1974, but racist now. Yeah. Let me say it not considered racist by editorial in 1974, but very racist now.
01:09:55
Speaker
The way that in the 1970s trying to be anti-racist usually meant you're doing something racist. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
01:10:04
Speaker
Why do they have to suspend Wolverine in his own capsule? They make him get in this capsule and then they just keep it suspended from the bottom of the helicopter. Why don't they just let him in the helicopter?
01:10:19
Speaker
but shut yeah I honestly can't. That's my
Madrox the Multiple Man and Marvel's Mutant Presence
01:10:24
Speaker
only other note on this one. Do you want to move on to Giant Size Fantastic Four number four, Madrox the Multiple Man? Whoa.
01:10:33
Speaker
Len Wein, writer slash editor. Chris Claremont, co-writer. Jay Buscema, Seastone, Jay Sanat, illustrators. Jay Costanza, letterer, Glynis Wein, colorist.
01:10:45
Speaker
think that's because there's a couple of stories here, but we're just focusing on Madrox and Multiple Man. Release date November 1974. Cover date February
01:10:57
Speaker
ben grim also known as The Thing, is on his way to the Jets game with his girlfriend Alicia. Ben uses his powers to tear open the closed door of a train so they don't miss it, but is upset when the train has to come to a sudden stop because someone's on the tracks.
01:11:15
Speaker
The thing goes to investigate, exiting through the hole he already ripped in the train, and sees a man in a strange green suit crackling with energy and calling himself Madrox. Madrox begs Ben for help.
01:11:27
Speaker
This angers Ben for some reason, who immediately announces that it's clobberin' time! Ugh. His clobbering doesn't have the intended effect on Madrox, though. Instead of reacting as if he was clobbered, he duplicates.
01:11:42
Speaker
The two Madroxes deliver a powerful punch, knocking the thing off the train. But the thing tosses a couple of trash cans back at them, knocking them off the train as well.
01:11:53
Speaker
This fall, as the narrator explains, should have killed them, as Ben knows. Ben, but he tried to murder this man! He absolutely did. But instead, both of them duplicate again four Madroxes.
01:12:09
Speaker
They beat Ben into unconsciousness, and when he comes to, he's back in the Baxter building, being tended to by the Fantastic Four. Seemingly mad with rage, they all vow vengeance on Madrox and start hunting him.
01:12:21
Speaker
Jesus Christ. Meanwhile, Madrox is wandering the streets of New York, confused and alone, trying to recall through his madness how he got here. He first displayed this multiplying power in the delivery room when he was born, duplicating as soon as the doctor slapped him on his little baby behind.
01:12:38
Speaker
We learn that his father was a nuclear research scientist. Of course. Very strong implications there. And that his parents made him wear a special suit and never explained why before they were killed by a tornado.
01:12:51
Speaker
Why is everybody's parents on Earth a nuclear scientist? it's the It was pretty big in the 50s, Matt. There were hundreds of thousands of nuclear scientists. It was a country of nuclear scientists.
01:13:07
Speaker
Suddenly, still wearing the suit that his parents gave him years after their death. It's explained a little later that he has not taken this thing off in six years. ah Suddenly, he's hit with a jolt of energy and driven mad, wandering alone to the biggest power source he could sense, which was New York City from Kansas. He's wandering from Kansas to New York City. The Windy City.
01:13:32
Speaker
back in the fantastic Back in the Fantastic Four headquarters, they realize his suit is drawing power from the electricity around him, just as they also discover that he's on the roof of their own building.
01:13:44
Speaker
Whoa. johnny Johnny melts hole. Who's Johnny? Johnny is the human torch. Oh. He melts a hole in the ceiling and rushes out to find Madrox, again asking, pleading for help.
01:14:01
Speaker
It's no use, though. Johnny is mad with rage and tries to set him on fire. This hurts Madrox, but he returns with a punch that knocks Johnny senseless. And Human Torture is surprised. He's like, I set him on fire and now he's hurt? What is going on here?
01:14:17
Speaker
The rest of the Fantastic Four show up, also rabid for vengeance, and in battling Madrox, force him to duplicate several times and absorb enough energy from the New York power grid to cause a blackout.
01:14:30
Speaker
They have no idea what to do with this guy, but they'll keep drawing violence. Yeah, yeah. Until Professor X is beamed down from a helicopter. He explains that Madrox is a mutant and that he was friends. No further explanation.
01:14:46
Speaker
He just shows up in a helicopter, beams down, and then because Madrox sucks away electricity, starts falling midway through. does this like Why does your helicopter have a tractor beam on it? This is, yeah, anyway.
01:14:59
Speaker
Professor x explains that Madrox is a mutant, that he was friends with Madrox's father. The Fantastic Four listen to x Xavier, but don't really seem to hear him as they resort right back to trying to fight Madrox and then lose.
01:15:14
Speaker
Seeing the fruitlessness of this, x Xavier concentrates as hard as he can, and he mentally disables, I'm pretty sure kills, all of the duplicates, leaving only the original Madrox.
01:15:25
Speaker
Once he's subdued, Xavier offers to take Madrox into his own care, hoping to treat his madness and train him to use his power. The Fantastic Four give themselves credit for a job well done for some reason.
01:15:37
Speaker
The end. Oh, boy. This is... So I don't even mention it in the recap, but the Invisible Woman is not here. It's Medusa is the fourth member of the Fantastic Four here.
01:15:50
Speaker
Yeah. i I don't know why we're not going following the Fantastic Four. I don't know. That's right. Everybody is acting fucking insane here. The Fantastic Four villains. Why do they just keep attacking this poor guy? Yeah.
01:16:06
Speaker
He's asking for... In every scene, he's just like, please, something's wrong with me. You're clearly different too. Can you please, please help me? Right. and he any he And then when they attack him, he's...
01:16:20
Speaker
expresses confusion he's like wait you're different just like me why are you fighting me and then they keep doing it so then he fights back yeah he gets mad like that's the he only fights back after they upset him james madrox innocent james madrox and blob both innocent um This is our first taste of Chris Claremont's writing.
01:16:47
Speaker
And fuck, man, already, instead of just saying the thing went to a sports game, he's like, back in ancient Athens, they gathered in gladiatorial arenas to watch two men battle to the death. But today...
01:17:05
Speaker
They use a leather ball and call it football. Matt, this is very similar to the outlook that you have on sports, I think. but Even implies that the only reason they're there is because they actually want to kill each other.
01:17:19
Speaker
Later on when Thing fights Madrox a second time, he's like, in France, they call it deja vu. sensation that something has happened that you believe has happened before. It's like, no, the same thing literally is happening again, Chris. Christopher, don't do this.
01:17:42
Speaker
i love this Chris Claremont impression. I hope that sticks around. Love? Love, Patrick, love a feeling created by the god Eros that once was the greatest ambition of man and now used to describe your feelings for my simple impression.
01:18:02
Speaker
He's also, he's got the thing quoting Alfred Lord Tennyson in his own charming Brooklyn way. yours ain't exactly the reason why, chum.
01:18:14
Speaker
It's very strange. i Okay, here's something extremely troubling to me. Yeah. As far as I can tell, in order to handle the duplicates, in order to get rid of them, you have to kill them.
01:18:32
Speaker
Like, Professor X... Is capable just essentially shutting off their minds and and shutting down all the functions of their bodies. They collapse and then they disappear.
01:18:47
Speaker
Okay? Follow me? I don't. Okay. I'm listening, but I do have an argument against this. Okay. i Let's hear Well, okay, so there is a panel where once they knock out Madrox, once Reed takes the suit apart and knocks Jamie Madrox unconscious, yeah ah the thing says, since them dupes all vanished when Reed decked Madrox.
01:19:15
Speaker
So it was once Madrox got knocked unconscious that his dupes disappeared. Okay, that doesn't make my next question and better. What did they do with the duplicate newborn in the delivery room?
01:19:32
Speaker
Well, maybe... Right, because who knows how long... Madrox was not skilled in his powers, so he probably couldn't reabsorb it. Number first. Second of all... Well, maybe he just... When... a baby doesn't go to sleep right away...
01:19:50
Speaker
After it's born. So there, yeah, you're right. There would have been maybe hours where there was just two babies. Did they kill that baby?
01:20:03
Speaker
Were they like in those two hours knowing professor Xavier, did they get to the point where he was like, what if we try killing it? At some point somebody had to at least float that.
01:20:16
Speaker
Yeah. or what if we try knocking the baby unconsciously? Somebody hit this baby. Hey, anyone around who can hit a baby? Real good.
01:20:28
Speaker
Knocking the duplicate baby unconscious appears to do nothing. Someone knocked the original baby unconscious.
01:20:38
Speaker
Oh, man. Yeah, I i don't know. i don't know. It's a great, I love that image. And I love that it it know always comes back throughout the next, what, 50 years of Jamie Madrox in Marvel Comics.
01:20:58
Speaker
But I've never once thought of that. What happened? to them Do you think at some point they tried pushing the babies together? is
01:21:13
Speaker
What if we can put this one back inside the other? Like feeding it to him.
01:21:22
Speaker
Oh boy. Matt. Yeah. What do you think about this grouping of comics here? Yeah, I don't even feel like... A lot of times, at the end of an episode, endings endings are a thing created in ancient Greece when the storytellers needed to... At the end of episodes, we often talk about, like, here's like a ah miniature era, right? Here's what they were trying to say about the X-Men.
01:21:54
Speaker
And there was no X-Men in this episode. Yeah, right. it's I mean, the only X-Man we see is Professor X, right? he's Who is yeah only secretly an X-Man.
01:22:08
Speaker
And I mean, even last episode, there was barely X-Men 2. two We are getting... Like, they are just slowing to a trickle here. They've lost all of it. and yeah Nobody at Marvel is interested in these fucking characters.
01:22:26
Speaker
Which is crazy to think that in just, like, a year, they're going to become the biggest thing Earth. Yeah. Well, at this point, we are...
01:22:38
Speaker
what, four years removed from the cancellation of the X-Men. We are two and a half years removed from the Beast story, and we haven't seen anything further from him after that.
01:22:50
Speaker
We get if you're observational and you are reading through all of the marvel titles you'll see that yeah there's a mention that wolverine is a mutant this character this yeah villain that popped up in hulk and madrox about a month later pops up in an entirely different title and is a mutant you know that yeah mutants are still a presence yeah i'll say I think this is later. Okay, so yeah, Beast shows up in a Marvel team-up issue in October of 1975, but that's after Giant Size X-Men number one, right?
01:23:36
Speaker
I don't know, Matt. We'll have to find out by listening to the next episode of Mutant Menace. um I think that it is weird but that based on that one issue,
01:23:50
Speaker
That Wolverine became such a big deal. There's nothing about reading that that I'm like, ooh, I want to see more from this guy. He's got whiskers on his face.
01:24:03
Speaker
Wait a second. His costume has whiskers that come down along his mouth.
01:24:11
Speaker
um ah And i think it's um I think it's crazy that multiple man doesn't become a big deal. Nobody picks up multiple man for years.
01:24:23
Speaker
Right. He's just he's a fascinating power and they just kind of disappear him at the end of this comic. I don't love the implication that Professor X takes him back to the mansion and stores him in his weird experiment basement for years until he pops up again in the X-Men.
01:24:43
Speaker
i Okay, i know where hepa I know where he goes right after this. I won't spoil it. But I know where Professor X and Madrox go the moment they leave Fantastic Four Tower.
01:24:56
Speaker
Okay. Is it horrifying? But it does feel very much... You're right. Like they have taken Maddox and put in situation put him in the basement.
01:25:09
Speaker
And well like we didn't really know that Magneto got put in the center of the earth or whatever. We assumed he was in the basement. and Where are these babies? did What did they do? Professor X put those in the basement.
01:25:25
Speaker
He's building a team. yeah and It's wild that at this point, the X-Men are on a mission. And the mission, the X-Men have been gone for too long, which is what sets in motion the giant-sized X-Men number one, right?
01:25:41
Speaker
And it's wild that while Professor X is freaking out about this, he's running off to play with the Fantastic Four and the Defenders. Yeah, he's, it almost seems like he's trying to find a new team to lead. Like, he's like, you know what, I think I've got the X-Men on lock, especially now that there's so few of them.
01:26:01
Speaker
What if I picked up another team? And, and they sent them away and they don't seem to be coming back. So they're probably dead. I guess I'll go find some other. this is a Time to pad out my resume.
01:26:14
Speaker
How did you feel about this era? i So I keep trying to put myself in the mind of an X-Men fan at the time, and i don't love it. I am, and we talked about this at the top, I'm a big Len Wein fan, and I love the weird...
01:26:33
Speaker
Chances he takes. I love his sort of balance between silly and serious. I think he understands the characters that he's working with almost all the time. I think he really, we said it, he's a comic book fan. He yeah is intimately familiar with the action figures that he's moving around on the board here.
01:26:51
Speaker
Right. But as an X-Men fan in 1974, would say the X-Men are dead. I've got, uh, right.
01:27:02
Speaker
Just professor X showing up in places and he doesn't even have the X-Men with him. There's a hint at an X-Men secret mission, but there's no sign to me that that's actually going to happen. This just seems like yeah for the last, we just as they have been doing for the last four years, they're abiding time. They're just reminding you that the X-Men exist and it doesn't seem like it's going to come to fruition.
01:27:26
Speaker
Right, and like Beast is off doing his own thing, and there no one's even following that. And Iceman, i guess, is teaming up with Spider-Man and the Human Torch.
01:27:37
Speaker
random Oh, not Spider-Man, just the Human Torch. If it was Spider-Man, you would have made us read it. Yeah, that's right. yeah Yeah, it doesn't feel like anything is happening. It feels like those characters are absolutely dead.
01:27:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, it just it must be a bummer. And again, I wonder if... there are X-Men fans at this point. Yeah. Or maybe they've accepted the fate and moved on.
01:28:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
Marvel's Dark Era and Legal Battles
01:28:05
Speaker
And become Defenders fans. Because that's the new weird team, right? Yeah. Yeah. But not quite Avengers.
01:28:17
Speaker
All right. Well, before we end the dark era and we we see a glimmer of light, the end of the tunnel you have another pat steals and deals for us i do matt this one's going to take us a little darker oh no oh boy today's steals and deals uh is found actually in fantastic four giant size number four okay stan the man lee presents with pardonable pride pardonable pride pardonable pardonable pride pardonable pride
01:28:55
Speaker
The origins of Marvel comics. This is the one 13 years in the making. if you So you can't see the visual right now. There's a book, a picture of a book.
01:29:06
Speaker
i could Yeah. Yeah. You can see it, Matt. I'm talking to the listener, though. Oh, I thought you were... a fullco two hundred and fifty six page volume on high-quality paper featuring the first and greatest adventures of marvel's foremost superheroes thrill to the awesome origins as well as other epic tales of the fantastic four spiderman the hulk thor dr strange All this plus never-before-revealed secrets behind the creation of your favorite superstars, as told by Smiling Stan himself.
01:29:38
Speaker
The Marvel Age of Comics begins anew, and you are there. c Cloth, $9.95, paper, $5.95. Is cloth like a hardback edition?
01:29:49
Speaker
i don't... Cloth? Cloth. The cloth version costs $9.95. Maybe that's like, you know how old hardcovers used to come with, like... ah oh yeah okay right it had the had like yeah all right i i see i yeah we are looking at i'm i don't i still don't see how this is darker we'll get there first is this is maybe deal the hardback would be about 30 in today's money 995 in that time
01:30:27
Speaker
Or sorry, did no wait. Yeah, the paperback would be about $30. This is actually not a deal. i I will explain to you how it's a steal, though. Do you know why this book got published, Matt, in 1975?
01:30:41
Speaker
um and No. Because Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, and a few other creators who had signed their rights to all their creations to Marvel started to put together their legal teams and claim ownership of these characters. So in order to...
01:31:02
Speaker
help bolster marvel's case stan lee wrote a book where he takes credit for creating all of these characters and in his publicity tour continually tells reporters that he doesn't care that he doesn't get the rights to these characters like he created all of them and he's not complaining he doesn't get uh merchandising rights or royalties for them And he's saying this before any of the others get out.
01:31:34
Speaker
Right. So that by the time when they come out and start talking about this, there it's like, what why Why aren't you more like Stan? Yeah. was I mean, reportedly, Jack Kirby was very on the fence, right? He was a company guy. He appreciated his time at Marvel, no matter how it ended.
01:31:53
Speaker
Even though at this time, DC is giving him full creator rights. He was really on the fence about trying to reclaim his old Captain America stuff. and This book, reportedly, is what drove him to say, okay let's move forward with legal action because this is also the point where...
01:32:10
Speaker
where Jack Kirby starts taking credit for creating Spider-Man, even though that's technically credited to Steve Ditko and Stanley. So this creates a yeah huge mess. We're not going to touch on this stuff, I don't think, because i we're going to continue reading Marvel comics. And if you read too much into it, you don't want to read Marvel comics anymore.
01:32:30
Speaker
I want to say that it's interesting. This book contains the origins of the Fantastic Four, the Silver Surfer, The Hulk, Spider-Man, some random villains, Thor, Doctor Strange, k Nick Fury, but it does not contain the X-Men.
01:32:54
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah, they are. So, i mean, just even more of a reason to think that those guys are just not part of Marvel Comics anymore.
01:33:09
Speaker
If you bought this, you'd be like, oh, yeah, these are that these are the stable of characters that Marvel wants me to focus on. Right, exactly. this is This is a big advertisement for Marvel Comics that you have to pay for. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:33:25
Speaker
Hey, so, Pat, I don't think I'm going to take this steal and deal. in deal Yeah, that's fair. ah But it's there for anyone who wants it.
01:33:38
Speaker
It would be a little interesting to read this, I think. To read Stan Lee's perspective, knowing what we know about how Stan Lee behaved. And his lie, right? Like like like what you're saying, it's not he it's not just his perspective, he's lying. He's the mascot, not the... he I mean, yeah. it's There's still a lot of... i don't think anything ever got clearly defined from this era.
01:34:07
Speaker
yeah But he will go on to give more credit to those guys later on. yeah But still not enough. And... Yeah, and it's creepy that this happened at all. it's You know, what what was it Alan Moore said that he had to he he couldn't write for the big two anymore? Because all whenever he picked up a comic, all he saw was the long line of sad old men who had had their lives stolen from them. Yeah.
01:34:38
Speaker
Well, Jerry Siegel is like the famous example, right? He's a guy who... created soup co-created Superman and then bounced between DC and Marvel for the rest of his career, making like their, uh, league minimum or whatever.
01:34:57
Speaker
yeah.
01:35:00
Speaker
Well, thanks for listening, everybody. We are, look, it's the end of the dark era. how many this This is the end of the dark era.
01:35:13
Speaker
Granted, in the Claremont era, we're going to have a lot to say about, ah you know... Ooh, it's going to get interesting. Race and social politics. Not to get political.
01:35:24
Speaker
identity. But...
01:35:28
Speaker
um but It'll be, we're going to have some more fun. ah we're We're about to have more fun. We're about to meet a whole new cast of characters. They're going to be fucking weird as hell. ah We might even meet a leprechaun or two.
01:35:43
Speaker
It's going to be a, wait it's going to be a fun ride. a lere yeah I don't know. i don't know. I guess we'll find out. In the meantime, here's what you guys can do. You can write to Pat's email corner. At mutantmenacepod at gmail.com.
01:35:59
Speaker
Please. You can ah check us out on Instagram. I have been slacking on getting videos, video clips up because I was graduating school, but I am now a college graduate.
01:36:15
Speaker
o Thanks, buddy. And I will, ah you know, pretty soon get back to that. I probably will start like I'll start back in episode 10 and go forward.
01:36:26
Speaker
Oh, yeah. So you'll see some old clips. Some of my favorite moments of ah old episodes. Go nuts. In video clips. ah What else? Where else can they find us, Pat?
01:36:36
Speaker
i i We don't really have any other online presence, Matt. You can find us on all podcasting platforms. And write and review us. Please! Please! We're begging you. And share us on your social medias.
Conclusion and Listener Interaction
01:36:51
Speaker
Big, big thanks to Krils Wilson for the opening theme. Big thanks to Julia Selle for providing the voice of Trish Tilby. And as we always say, yeah to close out every episode, it's not funny, Jamie.
01:37:08
Speaker
It's special. A special suit for my special son.
01:37:13
Speaker
And remember, huh? Is Rockman!