Transcript
Jen: Other things I was going to update you on.
Jamie: Wait, who's moderating?
Red D: Oh, you can update us on.
Jen: Me! update you on red like you know because we haven't had it that podcast in a while
Red D: Oh yes.
Jen: but um It's one day.
Red D: When we hit stop recording, you're gonna have to update me at this.
Jen: interesting stuff. episode I'll update you often.
Jamie: What do you say about... What are you saying about race presidential candidate dog?
Red D: I don't know about that one. Stay with us. Welcome back everybody.
Jamie: I was trying to pretend that we had you know some tea. on someone who's disgraced presidential candidacy. that, you know, it had been censored by your ruthless editing.
Jamie: Don't worry, people.
Red D: Yes I got it!
Jamie: It's any human.
Red D: I don't have a beep button. um but jenny you're in charge so you can just tell us where to stop
Jamie: Cheers. that point soon. Wait.
Jen: oh but i i am in charge of this one but i'm not in charge of the jingle so you know i'm just waiting for
Red D: Okay, well.
Jamie: Yeah. You don't get to tell me about balance or not.
Red D: I really. i'm quite tired so i'm just going to dance quietly and not say anything and people will be like this is not a video podcast
Jamie: That's not dancing, Red. That's jazz hands and you know it.
Jen: I'll tell you what, if I was in charge of the jingle It would be 15 seconds.
Jamie: hu
Jen: This is insane for a jingle. This is some almost a full pop song.
Jamie: This is perfect.
Red D: yeah it it was
Jamie: I am loving the jingle.
Red D: It's always a fight between the two of you, so I have to just...
Jamie: I am absolutely loving the jingle. I think it won.
Jen: I love it, I just, you know, the duration with. interesting Anyway, hello! You're welcome. to the podcast Janeway's Children.
Jamie: Yeah, stop bickering about the jingle, moderator.
Jen: yes terrible isn't it We are discussing Season 3, Episode 18, Darkwing.
Red D: oh i should say the reason why i let the jingle play is because there's no fade out button it's just like stop which always seems a bit random
Jamie: and so funny but everyone Stop talking about the jingle!
Jen: It's okay. I forgive you. I forgive you for the jingle.
Jamie: This is the most flagrant disrespect for the moderator ever!
Jen: We have moved on.
Red D: And since I'm not going to edit it later, there's no way I can feed it out later. So I just hope that we can chat long enough to cover it.
Jamie: Yeah. jenny what are we talking about sorry i didn't catch that in between the bickering about the jingle
Jen: we've Guys. Guys, we have moved on from the jingle. All is forgiven. And we're on two.
Jamie: Is the jingle based on a historical tune?
Red D: You'll have to ask the jingle author, which is my brother. have to check
Jamie: I would, but inexplicably you haven't given me his number.
Red D: His SoundCloud is in the show notes. You can always follow him there.
Jamie: What's a SoundCloud, Red?
Red D: i believe it's where people who make music post their music and then you can
Jamie: Okay. What's music, Red?
Red D: Ah, Chivas. Jenny, back to you.
Jen: I was just trying to look for a suitable. pleased to jump in but i don't think it's gonna come so here we go on to one minute summary.
Jamie: Jenny, you know the art of being the moderator is to interrupt who you choose. Anyone else who interrupts is scum to be trodden down hard. That's my attitude when I'm moderating. I applaud you for taking it.
Jen: This is going to be a long podcast. Jamie, Jamie, it is time for your one -minute summary. Off you go.
Jamie: ah ah The intrepid crew of Starship Voyager enact a pastiche on Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde in space with... ah Mr. Hyde, taking it all out on Kes's putative amour.
Red D: Very nice.
Jen: Nice, succinct. It's nice.
Jamie: It's putative of the right word in this in this instance.
Jen: I like it.
Jamie: I nicked it from Count Binface.
Jen: I'm just trying to know what it means.
Red D: I mean, I'm going to have to quickly Google this. Jenny, are you Googling?
Jen: Yeah.
Jamie: Speculative
Jen: Putative.
Jen: And about it.
Jamie: Putative. P -U -T a t i v e
Red D: She's super perfect. How about you sit on the center?
Jamie: Let's Google it. I hope it doesn't mean some...
Red D: actually i thought someone was gri it
Jamie: anyway.
Jamie: Putative.
Red D: Punish, like... um Thank you.
Jamie: reputed to be oh generally considered or reputed to be oh okay
Red D: Oh. will repeat it to be her amour. Amore.
Jamie: Yes, and...
Jen: own.
Jamie: in if If I may continue with my one -minute summary after taking on the applaud of a grateful populace. in showing the dr hyde uh side of many dark figures in history in a bid to improve his programming.
Jamie: The Doctor jeopardises the life and potential future happiness of Kez, as our intrepid crew explore an outpost of... free spirited galactic explorers.
Jen: Oh, it was a two -part one -minute summary.
Jamie: I know, I know. Unlike this episode, which was definitely a one -part version.
Red D: Also, I mean very good pointing out the frame of the doctor Oh gosh. Jekyll.
Jamie: Look to Jacqueline, Mr.
Red D: Dr. Jekyll had hired the side framing.
Jamie: Hyde.
Jen: mean Yeah, and it gets me. But it really is. Good point. okay initial reactions There's only one initial reaction.
Red D: Well, I actually wrote mine down in case I forgot it, so I can quickly...
Jen: You go, Red.
Red D: Um... I don't want you to bite my nose quickly. but I thought it was a little bit random. and Which is hard for me to say, you know, that I...
Jen: e
Red D: And a bit of magic wand waving at the end. to make things. Okay, like... i mean this is right again but why was transporting the doctor Thank you. What else was happening while he was being transported?
Jen: Good question.
Red D: ah
Jen: There was like another plot line going on that they just edited out maybe.
Jamie: I mean pre presumably during the transport they were also fixing his programming.
Red D: Yes. maybe but That seems...
Jen: It was presumed.
Red D: Thank you.
Jamie: Maybe, maybe they fixed nothing. The doctor remained secretly evil for the rest of the journey.
Red D: I'm just going to...
Red D: And the kind of the... i'm going to be quite critical actually but the link between his personalities and then those personalities wanting to like Have something to do with kids. I didn't quite get that link either.
Red D: I mean, I guess it was someone's personal Anyway. I thought it was good. I don't know.
Jamie: you didn't You didn't think... Combining the traits of all of those personalities could have brought out some dark results.
Red D: no that made sense but then linking it to Kez I think that was a bit of a weakness in my opinion.
Jamie: in In terms of...
Red D: Just doesn't really make that much sense to me, the motivation. I'll be honest. so
Jamie: the The motivation to steal Kes away.
Red D: Yeah.
Jamie: Aye. Yeah, I i would don't know why you'd still guess away either. Unless he was indulging his Byronic, uh... passionate need for amour.
Red D: But maybe Jenny feels differently.
Jen: Well, do you mean because they were supposed to be totally separate, the two personalities? So why would he... the evil personality.
Red D: Well, the new personality doesn't know Kiss, so why would he try to kidnap Kiss?
Jamie: What?
Red D: The old personality cared about Kiss, so why would he try to kidnap Kiss?
Jen: Yeah.
Red D: Even though they tried to make it about, like... stuff like that from making a bad decision or whatever. It wasn't already a bad decision. It was her decision to make. I mean...
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: Yeah, I wonder.
Jamie: I mean, my tech was The personalities were never truly separate. because they all always had some sort of a core in each other. Um...
Red D: Or again, maybe this is because I got rejected from a job this morning and I was like, I don't have time for any of this BS.
Jen: oh perspective
Jamie: Ha ha!
Red D: So I could have been in a bad mood.
Jen: No, I think... which are the initial reactions. I also found this one a little bit i i was drifting off at times a little bit you know like i did find it difficult focus on this one I don't want to say boring because I like all the strawberry oranges.
Jen: But it was sort almost that way.
Jamie: Wait, doesn't your note say, found this one a little boring? Oh, sorry.
Jen: Probably.
Jamie: i
Jen: um yeah which was surprising because i love doctor episodes you know how much i love them Dr.
Jamie: Actually, weirdly, I normally hate the Doctor episodes and I actually quite like this one, so...
Jen: so
Jen: Oh!
Red D: Oh great.
Jen: So what was your initial reaction to it?
Jamie: found this one a little boring no uh i like the dr jekyll and mr hyde pastiche um I...
Jamie: It was very, I, I... I mean... Can I jump straight to one of my points?
Jen: Well... You can, but then we come back because we have to do one cool thing.
Jamie: So I had... I liked it. I thought there were loads of things that struck me about that that... um wouldn't typically I thought the level of acting was actually quite a lot higher than it normally is.
Jamie: um and we see a range from the doctor which I will dip into that we don't typically see. and which I think would take a huge amount of skill to actually act.
Jen: Yep. Good points. There was a lot of opportunity for him to play different characters. the Okay, one cool thing.
Jen: Sliggo!
Jamie: um
Red D: Yes.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: Bye, Cool Vegas. completely unrelated stutter.
Red D: me and it Unless it's not person down here.
Jen: I guess it's kind of related. I saw meteors. I saw shooting stars last night. and they were beautiful in the Perseid. So that's it, that's it. Need to shower?
Jamie: Polish Sid. or polluted.
Jen: Yeah. so beautiful and I was only out there for like five minutes and I started to use pipe
Red D: I am so jealous. Now you've seen the northern lights from your garden. garden Now you've seen this meteor shower from your garden. I've gotten up at like 3 a .m. or trying to be somebody living it. whatever pm whatever to try to catch this because this meteor shower has been happening all year It's like a...
Jamie: Hmm.
Red D: Every 10 years there's this extra activity because the solar activity or something
Jen: Hmm.
Red D: And I haven't seen anyone. So I'm very jealous.
Jen: Yeah.
Jamie: oh
Jen: It was surprising because it it was even though it happens often it was supposed to be the best night for it but not until midnight. And I started singing at 11! with him.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: so late. You need to come to Osred.
Jamie: So I...
Jen: Yeah.
Jamie: I got it wrong by the way, they're not called the Pellucids, they're called the Perseids, I do beg your pardon.
Jen: Well, that's what I said first.
Jen: morbid. And then I can see there's another one coming.
Red D: well yes i mostly put it in there to remind me to tell you guys but i ran into your best man from your wedding um
Jamie: all
Red D: And it's been a strange couple of weeks because a few weeks ago I was like
Jen: Okay.
Red D: I'm sure I'm gonna run into someone. that I know in London. And now I've run into three people. just randomly on the street. Amen. Andre was one of them. So... I guess I'm not getting a meteor shower, but I'm getting a people shower.
Red D: Of some kind.
Jen: yeah
Jamie: Bitch.
Red D: ru
Jen: Small world.
Red D: That's...
Jamie: Yes, you are getting a people shot.
Red D: but
Jamie: ah but No, no, no, no, no, no.
Red D: but i mean i haven't run into people in London in a very long time.
Jamie: All the streets raining men.
Red D: It's pretty.
Jen: It's surprisingly rare, isn't it? you think you would do plenty
Red D: Yeah, and Because I need three in like the space of a couple of weeks. Come on. bring let them keep coming
Jen: Oh, do you like running into people. See, sometimes I don't want to run into anyone. i know You know, when you're knackered and your hair looks a mess.
Red D: I was on my way to... typecast so i mean but yes i um No. i And actually when I ran into - cat this person from book club i just come from 80s fitness and she did a double take to try see try to recognize who it was because i had like this high pony and a very sweaty but anyway um no but i do like running into people
Jamie: Yeah.
Jamie: this
Jamie: Oh.
Red D: But maybe that's just some African in me.
Jamie: Nice, I'd seen him just about a day before I think. um
Red D: Yeah, he said he'd seen you.
Jamie: He did. He didn't say hello, but he did see me
Jen: Such social budget ladders.
Red D: That's my one cool thing. Really not related to do this. trip but
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: I love unrelated phone call things.
Jamie: a
Jen: Jamie, do you have any? Or should we move on to...
Jamie: i do I was watching 30 Rock and I'm still convinced that the doctor in this is the screenwriter in 30 Rock.
Jamie: The guy who acts the screenwriter. If not, they're hairstyles that are far, far too closely related to each other.
Red D: Do you mean? The producer. Um.
Jamie: Yeah.
Red D: ah He's a lot taller I think. That's funny.
Jamie: Always the sizeism people. Always the sizeism.
Red D: What's his name? i costume on black
Jamie: a Not lots. Anyway, doesn't matter. That was my one cool thing.
Jen: Excellent. Thank you. And now on to people's points. And... I'm gonna start with me for easy. You do. order OCG order on the nose.
Jen: um i Oh dear, I've already kind of said it in the in the beginning. I do apologize. yeah basically I just did find it a little bit unengaging this one and I didn't I wasn't quite sure why because you know the doctor does a lot of great acting, he's really having a great time.
Jen: pretending to be true completely. different personalities So i don't have some way of anything i worry so I'm ask you guys And it sounds like Reggie would have had a little bit more too.
Red D: Yeah. i mean jamie liked it so maybe he could persuade us but I think I was just not in the mood to gloss over any gaps. or any holes? I don't know.
Red D: um
Jamie: well I mean... I think we probably all suffered from watching this one in the heat, as I think you'd all be a lot more tolerant to it. Had we not been getting baked alive in a climactic
Red D: could be true.
Jamie: well basically a climate change natural disaster in slow motion um I think this was one of the lighter -hearted ones before, you know, we... get to like grim and brutal and horrible antagonists like the borg for you know.
Jamie: episodes and seasons on end. um you know there was a little bit of ah a chance for Kess to show some romance and some story arc away from Nihiligt. And there was a chance to explore what...
Jamie: day -to -day life might actually be in these sorts of exploratory and nomadic clusters of space with a sort of lodge -based society that reminded one of both ah Highland Scottish clans and also Native Americans all at once.
Jamie: I liked it.
Jen: You may be onto something there, actually. Peace. Maybe...
Jamie: You see? It's all heatwave.
Jen: Well anyway, but I was actually gonna suggest that you talk about how it works. leading up to the all the exciting Borg stuff. and maybe i'm just a bit impatient to get there this was one of those
Jamie: Jenny, do you have Borg anxiety?
Jen: reverting back episodes. No, the opposite of anxiety.
Red D: Vogue anticipation.
Jen: book Borg excitement!
Jamie: Borg anticipation. You've got Borg anticipation noted.
Jen: Yeah. Okay. Just read.
Red D: um Yes, this is not a very big point, but I did... like i guess the opening scene where they end this what did you call it jamie
Jamie: at a lodge
Red D: um Lodge, yes telling stories.
Jamie: a launch. Yeah.
Red D: and the guy
Jamie: How gullible does the captain seem in that scene?
Red D: I thought she seemed a bit pissed off but again i think i was pissed off so maybe i got me but um i just thought like when he told the story about like we thought it was an earthquake whatever and then they were on this big animal right I was just like.
Red D: i don't know that phrase there be dragons just popped into my head which was you know like oh even
Jamie: Yeah.
Red D: out in space.
Jamie: But like... I agree, but the captain seemed just utterly entranced by this in a way that you would, you know, not expect a hardened spacefaring captain who's a person of the world to be so easily taken in by the idea of, oh, hi.
Jamie: I landed on a dragon.
Red D: well maybe she just wants them to be true like I do. So she was willing to believe.
Jen: Yeah, she's enjoying herself.
Jamie: Wants it to be, she's an easy mark.
Red D: yeah
Jen: She was enjoying the story and the drama.
Red D: Yes.
Jen: It reminded me a little bit of the episode where the Doctor's a...
Jamie: Yeah.
Red D: I think.
Jen: He's in... Be a wolf. you need that kind of
Jamie: Mmm. Yep.
Jen: language. three dramatic but poetic.
Jamie: Hmm.
Red D: Yes.
Jen: second I was, I, guys, I just. Totally went in the wrong order. I do apologise, Jamie. It's your go.
Jamie: That's okay, Jenny.
Red D: And Jamie just let that happen without speaking up.
Jamie: wil We'll just let you destroy the format of this podcast.
Jen: Yeah, i think that i am right.
Jamie: It's OK. You know, I've been straining against every instinct to do every single one I've ever done in sequential order. You just dump all over that. You know, I don't mind. I think it's great that we're going out of sequence and, you know, it's vibing.
Jamie: It's natural. It's organic. fresh old It's Oh, the staring.
Jen: that I mind. Must believe it.
Jamie: this new look i love it um Yeah, so I... Again, I was going to start off with my first point. as You know, there is obviously a serious Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde throughout this episode. It's even a doctor who's showing two personalities between a gentle and, you know, upstanding doctor.
Jamie: and you know a savage who um He's a terror to all of his friends and entirely self -interested. born of his attempt to improve his bedside manner by taking on traits from uh great figures of history such as uh Lord. byron uh the vulcan to powell uh socrates and also it is heavily hinted
Jamie: but never actually said out loud. to the point of the doctor referring to the individual as the Mahatma, but also apparently Mahatma Gandhi, although they never actually named Gandhi.
Jamie: They just have a character that is clearly based on him, which is an interesting one.
Red D: but it was Yeah. They're definitely him.
Jamie: But. uh in taking on the characters of all of these individuals the subroutines all interact with each other and bring out the dark sides of all of them so byron's impulsiveness to powell's ruthlessness um and utter lack of the sort of feeling that drives morality.
Jamie: um And yeah, and that generates our Mr. Hyde to the Doctor's Dr. Jekyll. which I think is a neat pastiche. albeit with a far, far happier ending to the story than Dr Jeff and Mr Hyde.
Red D: Yeah, I wonder... I mean, I think you described that really well, but it made me think it was... Okay, Byron. um Yeah. wouldn I mean I guess he was only one of the four but Like.
Red D: muandhi likeru he Couldn't he have been a balancing influence? or is the implication that he also has some I don't know him well enough. the bottom of history i forgot everything let's have a talk uh motives or something
Jen: so
Jen: Yeah, maybe extreme you know black and white. Thank you. Maybe.
Red D: i guess he was quite but he was portrayed very like uh moralistic, let's say. or is that the right word like in this episode i mean like you know he's like saying men and women should only be together for procreation. and There should be no passion.
Red D: I guess that could be considered. Like a bit of a dark side.
Jen: the extreme. So.
Red D: Yeah.
Jen: suppressing. natural desire as well
Red D: very rule -based.
Jen: Yeah. interesting one
Jamie: Well, that got very contemplative.
Red D: But it's very non -violent, right? and uh
Jamie: Oh.
Red D: Because, I mean, he's famous for his nonviolent protesting.
Jen: Yeah.
Red D: myself so
Jamie: Yeah. may It may be why during the actual scene in which we show the Doctor desperately returning back to the holographic suite where he met all of these individuals that...
Jamie: where they're all malfunctioning, but of all of them... Gandhi seems to be or the Mahatma figure seems to be malfunctioning the absolute worst. So there are some that are just lying.
Red D: that's true
Jamie: uh immobile whereas and some that are in less of a bad station still conversant
Red D: that's true
Jamie: so for instance to powell just playing an endless game of um what is the uh the Vulcan game will be.
Red D: ah
Jamie: the pins
Jen: Kowtow!
Red D: Yes, well done, Jenny.
Jamie: Alto endlessly repeating the same move but the Mahatma figure is broken worst of all with his head sort of permanently spinning and maybe that's a metaphor.
Jen: hundred
Red D: Yeah.
Jen: I don't wish. I think Socrates is the worst because he's... um
Red D: That's true.
Jen: He's cut in half in this. as an empty inside. It's kind of gory.
Jamie: Well...
Jen: in Star Trek world.
Jamie: Maybe made um Maybe, but... Mahatma's the one who received most visually, I think. or In my opinion, it's the worst. And it's my opinion, so I'm allowed.
Jen: but actually even even the even the lord byron one is pretty Reiki.
Jamie: m
Jen: you know it looks like it's got bugs underneath It's quite dark. the voyage. but then isn't it
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: Anyhoo, on that note... um I think... and I'm afraid I have a very silly little trivial point of view. Okay, I really enjoyed Kesa's...
Jen: oh look how dreamy in his expressions when she's looking at the alien she fancies.
Jamie: more
Jen: and also I don't think
Jamie: Oh yeah.
Jen: I mean to me every move is a personal thing, he's not that alluring.
Jamie: Thank you.
Jen: So I feel like her acting. How? attractive he is, convinced me. you did it
Red D: yeah
Jamie: Do you know what you're talking about?
Red D: She's definitely attractive.
Jamie: I fancied him the moment I saw him.
Red D: well I mean... This is one of my points, but I could always just throw it in here or save it. but
Jen: Do it!
Red D: for some reason. Or maybe it's just because he's in the news recently. To me, he looked like a young alien Jon Hamm. friend. you know.
Jamie: ha ha ha
Red D: japan
Jen: Was John, can't remember John Hammond.
Red D: Is that his name?
Jamie: that Don Draper.
Red D: Don Draper, yeah. It's the... uh
Jen: I'm getting out of here, babe. Oh, interesting. Yeah, we can kind of see that.
Jamie: since
Red D: but he's quite bouny
Jamie: He said, hey.
Jen: Yeah, I mean he's Yeah.
Red D: ah But yes, Kez was.
Red D: You're doing a great job.
Jen: She just had that look in her eye that, you know... Teenage girl. Smitten.
Jamie: Aww.
Red D: ah
Jamie: Hey, she's not a teenager.
Jen: Which, you know...
Jamie: She's nearly three years old.
Jen: Yeah, but she is quite young so actually the whole split and teenage look... is in keeping with her.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: I'm only three years old out of nine. Although actually if you say three out of nine then she seems quite old. Because that makes it like...
Jamie: Well, I mean... Yeah, because I want to talk about this. Can we talk about the whole the captain is encouraging a three -year -old to get out and have a romantic affair thing? That's... ah Yeah.
Jamie: I got a lot of problems with that.
Jen: Were they not encouraging weighing the pros and cons with her?
Red D: but but Is that like being 30 out of 90?
Jamie: Not giving a straight no. assistance
Red D: So... Okay. She did say she's an adult.
Jen: young adults.
Red D: And here she is. Who she's attracted to is no one else's business.
Jamie: assistance assistant
Red D: Very teenage -ish actually. ah
Jen: Yep. Yep.
Red D: Look.
Jamie: If you say so.
Red D: for the movies.
Jen: I do like the doc's response to all that though, it's such a wholesome interaction.
Red D: them
Jamie: m
Jen: She's saying, look, you you know, this is an appropriation. and fit who i am have relationships like this Fair point. And the doctor says, oh, of course, no, we don't want to. you know But then she realizes.
Jen: oh you're gonna be doing it because you care about me though It's just a very wholesome. growing up interactions and I like it.
Jamie: Yeah.
Red D: That's true. Actually.
Jen: Sorry, additional point there. for this gentleman
Red D: a bit of it like a father -daughter um Love and touch me. or can be
Jen: Yeah, with less what I imagine would be less shouting than if it's a teenage girl.
Red D: well Yeah. a good father and a mature teenager
Jen: Yes, yes, exactly.
Red D: The ones I saw on TV, not the ones I also grew up with.
Jen: a so I think back to Jamie.
Jamie: I mean, I sort of said it, but the the gandhi heads the Mahatma head spinning is to me just... a hilarious moment of comedy in the middle of the darkness, but I'll skip to my other point. I i thought the physical acting of the Doctor was absolutely superb.
Jamie: I mean, the way in which he alters his gates his manner, he comes across as an extraordinarily physical actor and is able to portray himself as he goes down this spiral is brutish to a to a point where the natural comparisons are uh Again. uh
Jamie: Mr. Hyde or even sort of a Caliban -ish type figure. it's I just thought that was absolutely superbly done. um you know, he he becomes it. rather than someone who could have been very, very comedic indeed, someone that is genuinely scary throughout.
Jamie: See ya. throughout the arc of this episode, and I had a lot of admiration for that. I'd be interested to see if it struck you guys as... Clearly as it did me.
Jen: Yeah, I mean what you say about Caliban is a really good point. and There's definitely like a Shakespearean Machiavellian evil character element. So the way he sort of. crutches and pulls the hood and he looks.
Jen: Evil thin face poking it round the hood when he does his scenes is yeah i hadn't noticed that before but I love that.
Jamie: And he's he sort of walks around with a hunch in his back and one shoulder higher than another, and all of these sorts of things where the Doctor's natural refinement is clearly just sort of gone.
Red D: Yeah, I mean, I 100 % agree. I mean, I think we're going to have to fight over the star player award later.
Jamie: Are we?
Red D: um His acting was so good and I didn't really write it down as a point but i we we'll find it out later but I mean his eyes, his jaw, his neck, his ah
Jamie: Yeah.
Red D: i think they styled his hair a little bit differently like just a little bit of curl which suddenly made him so much more evil i don't know
Jamie: the ah The eyes in particular, yeah.
Jamie: Yeah. This doctor, this new look, bold, daring, I love it.
Red D: um
Red D: It was really quite the transformation and I think we should try to remember this one because I think he has the opportunity to do this a few times over the next couple of seasons. and... I think I'd forgotten about this one.
Red D: but
Jen: Mm.
Red D: um It was such a contrast. and and because doesn't he The one I remember is much later on where I'm sure he's playing... Seven.
Red D: is in his body. like or something like something like that there's like a body switch or seven it enters his body to his like And it's so funny.
Jamie: So. I say. We'll see.
Jen: Yeah, that does ring a bell Yeah.
Red D: But I forgot about it this one, so I think we should try to remember this one and maybe like you do a comparison of all the... um characters he gets to play. uh
Jamie: I've just got this image of him now sort of walking around going, how the hell did you get in there, Seven?
Red D: But. It was so... I mean, because... I've said this before, but some actors are good because they're playing ah they're playing themselves. you know like and So you don't always know what's the acting, what's themselves. bit. Good to see. the to see someone do something so a different. as soy so That's the next thing.
Jen: Yeah. Yeah. then um
Jamie: That was me.
Jen: I don't think we ought to write. i was getting carried away there i lost of my thoughts from that interesting point jamie thank you but on to red
Red D: Yes.
Jamie: Hmm.
Red D: ah Well... i mean because i guess i have this point and now maybe i can actually as some americans love to say segue into it instead of just listing it but because the doctor was playing this kind of degrading role.
Jamie: assistant
Red D: um he didn't have so not degrading like he's literally degrading as in he's like kind of
Jamie: No, he's...
Red D: lower quality.
Jamie: um
Red D: I guess not.
Jamie: Devolving.
Red D: it's a cool thing ah He doesn't have the opportunity to deliver all the funny lines in sickbay And I thought they gave a very funny line to B 'Elanna. who did a great job with it except she doesn't get that much comedy.
Red D: I think her character. But when she's like. You've got to be careful. um
Jamie: or someone might hurt you.
Red D: or else someone might hurt you because normally it's like you've got to be careful else you're gonna get hurt you know like a baby.
Jen: Hehehe.
Jamie: Yeah. hu Yeah. yeah
Red D: They look down and his hand is on his thigh.
Jamie: He's like, why? and She's like, because you're touching my leg.
Red D: It was just like the the twist of the words a little bit and her delivery and the hand on the leg was just very fun.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: Yeah, I enjoyed that bit. That was brilliant.
Red D: That was one of my favorites. it's um and funny to see her be funny. like she
Jen: Yep.
Red D: well but she just doesn't get the chance all the time.
Jen: Absolutely. Not enough flour in this I have to say.
Red D: No. But...
Jen: um
Red D: to
Jen: actually my next point leads quite nicely on. from this. this again it's about the doctors acting And. I initially started writing. why is the doctor acting really creepy because it was really early on you know when he was just doing something slightly creepy and i was like but' sorry i i write about that and I was like okay this is intentional isn't it I think this would be.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jamie: Meh.
Jamie: And if you say there's something not quite right about that, like I truly hope that when you're in the office you're not just randomly letting strangers touch your legs.
Jen: No, no, this was earlier on when it was...
Jamie: as only slightly creepy.
Jen: when it was it was just slightly creepier just subtle looking he said he said to someone possibly milana you know but oh she was she'd eaten salad the you know she was allergic to the salad on this particular planet
Jamie: this
Jen: said through information that have every you eaten salad have you have you been Naughty. And the way he said it was just so creepy.
Jamie: Yeah. that's
Jen: um But then that led me on to the the real point, which was that he does creepy so well. like I...
Jamie: and since
Red D: it does
Jen: so well and and in particular the lift scene with the you know random actress
Red D: Oh yes.
Jen: but he's not so...
Jamie: Hmm. Yeah.
Jen: He's doing is looking it up and down.
Jamie: Eyeing off.
Jen: but the way he does it, oh my - Yeah, very well done.
Jamie: um
Red D: and also i Mean he's he's being very creepy in a sense. He's looking at it, but I also got the sense that he's like holding himself back take some Yes.
Jen: Yeah.
Jamie: the
Jen: I'm attacking her.
Red D: It was like, ooh!
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: Yeah, until Paris comes in and disrupts it oh It's very... Yeah, ominous. the
Red D: Very good. luck
Jen: Anyway. Over to Jamie.
Jamie: Uh oh, uh oh, uh oh. um Yeah, I wanted to engage with the hair situation on this on a number of levels.
Jamie: The first of which was Aha. Finally a species with Janeway -level hair boof. the barman that booth Yes. Chef's kiss.
Jamie: And also love the whole... Kes comes back from the planet having been doing unspecified bad things with Zaheer looking like she's been dragged through a hedge to report to the uh the captain of the entire ship at eight in the morning, pretending not to have had a night out being dragged through a hedgerow.
Red D: I love it that scene.
Jamie: In spite of looking like the Hedgehog. Which is quite hard when you've got sort of an Elfin Bob like that. two
Red D: She looked rough. She looked rough. I'm sorry.
Jamie: Hey, hey, hey, hey, we we don't judge people like that Red.
Red D: i No. I mean. Yeah, that's going to tie very nicely with my next point. but um
Jamie: I'll go to your next point then, let's go!
Red D: Well... i loved I did love that scene because we've all been there. where Were we trying to look professional but we didn't get enough sleep? for property. being on the dance floor drinking too much. mostly over.
Jamie: What a shame.
Jen: never rich
Jamie: Hell yeah.
Red D: Bye -bye.
Jen: what you're talking about.
Red D: Yeah. Um.
Jen: which
Jamie: Yeah.
Red D: But. um
Jamie: Definitely always one night stands in my case.
Red D: ah But I did love her. You know, it used to be called the walk of shame. Then 30 Rock rebranded it to The Stride of Pride. And then I was like, can we... re -rebranded to like the transport of i don't know the only thing i could come up with with was the transport of import or something that like
Jamie: i thought I was going to go with the transport of Ronsport. Um...
Red D: Okay. anything anything can we create the star trek version of the stride of pride because she has a dick.
Jen: Oh yeah. I'm very on board with the aim. Uh...
Jamie: The Sexpress Express.
Red D: it has to be the transport because she was transported back to the ship of shul
Jen: Yeah.
Jamie: ah
Red D: Or maybe shuttle.
Jen: and
Red D: The shuttle of... No. with transport. but um for transportation of... I don't know. I have to think. I couldn't think of anything. but
Jamie: the group sport transport
Red D: Maybe. Say that again.
Jamie: The group sport transport.
Red D: ah That's not bad Jamie, that's not bad.
Jen: I think trance was quite a difficult one.
Jamie: That's not patch floating at all.
Red D: Note is a very difficult word, so something we can dwell on. um
Jamie: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Red D: If you're a listener and you come up with one. please let us know
Jen: I mean, this these conversations are nowadays ruined because...
Jamie: hmm
Jen: you could just pop this in chat dpt and you'd hear it.
Red D: Oh, I did not even think of doing that. How sad is that? oh
Jen: i bet it would come
Red D: But maybe I'm being too fixated on the transport. What's another word?
Jen: but that is very
Red D: Let's have a look. But...
Jen: Star Trek isn't it? transport.
Red D: Yeah.
Jen: sorry
Red D: They don't really call it teleportation, do they?
Jen: they put it anything else
Jamie: No, yeah.
Red D: no
Jen: ah mean is it wise to answer that?
Red D: the beam back of Steam. Suck.
Jen: the Beam is, yeah, maybe Beam would work.
Jamie: The beam back of the steam sack.
Red D: sorry
Jamie: What the hell?
Jen: Yeah.
Red D: It's been falling.
Jamie: Yeah.
Red D: Obviously, no chachipities.
Jen: Damn.
Red D: The beams on her back.
Jamie: I mean, you know, I think that as a way of following who who's been being naughty when the ship have shore time, the teleport report is probably a good way of...
Red D: ah
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: oh that's a good one yeah i was gonna say you could just use
Red D: i like that That's a good one.
Jen: um the Beam Me Up Scotty.
Red D: Oh yes.
Jen: That is so...
Jamie: that's better than the beam me up these skulls no sorry that's so bad
Jen: quietly.
Jen: Well, that's the that's the See you next time.
Red D: Yeah, great.
Jamie: ah
Red D: I like the teleport report. what what yeah that was
Jen: That's a good one.
Jamie: Yeah.
Red D: We'll continue to think about it in our spare time I hope, but just wanted to throw that out there.
Jamie: I disagree, I don't think we've mined this one enough um A and A.
Jen: Well... You think about it. and I will move us on. to I think. Actually, I think it's you next, Jamie. So you can't think of about it.
Jamie: Is it?
Red D: That's weird, Jenny.
Jamie: No, I just talked about a species with Janeway level hair.
Jen: is it
Jamie: This is on you.
Jen: Uh -uh. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jamie: isn't that This is anarchy. with You know, the lunatics are taking over the asylum here.
Jen: all you
Jamie: We need order, and we're just... We're just getting fluffed here.
Jen: like Just ble it look, just look blame the lack of sleep due to the heat wave.
Jamie: Hey, no one told you to leave that cat in the bed to wake you at four in the morning.
Jen: apologies this is
Jen: I actually just look so cute. I couldn't believe that. Anyway.
Red D: um that's
Jamie: Yeah.
Red D: Yeah.
Jen: Um. gosh this is a long point i've written i'm gonna have to reread it
Red D: We'll also turn in silence while you read.
Jen: like um Or I could just read it and then as I read it will hopefully come back to me. and I've written an artistic license.
Red D: Interesting start.
Jen: I'll go to a... I'm going to assume that the Janeway cast C. was don't get in. quotation marks real life.
Jen: Janeway can help. Weigh the pros and cons but not make the decision. But... that makes sense that's so they were having the conversation
Red D: You know, this is not a documentary, Jenny. i just down.
Jen: Peace. They were having a conversation.
Jamie: This is where the Netflix documentary thinks it all went wrong.
Jen: Sorry, I know what I'm talking about now. Kez comes to Janeway and she wants some advice and Janeway says to her, well I can help you with the pros and cons but at the end of the day this is your decision. Great! Great response, Bridget.
Jamie: this is
Jen: But what was disappointing about this scene, from a very Jenny -specific perspective, which I think Red will probably agree with, but no one else, was that but there were no weighing up of the pros and cons.
Jen: I thought they were going to make a nice little list and go through it, and, you know, there's all the cons, you know, be believing the people you're familiar with and safety and security.
Red D: Yes.
Jen: book pros you'll be going exploring new things and then Well... I actually didn't do any of the weighing, I'm weighing frozen cuts, it's very disappointing.
Red D: That was disappointing.
Jamie: maybe Maybe they had just both decided how they were going to frame it themselves.
Red D: It could have been.
Jen: Well, I feel like they i'm I'm using my artistic license in my head. that they did do that. and then we cut to the scene where at the end she says but I can only help you weigh these pros and cons. ones.
Jen: and then you have to make the decision.
Jamie: Yes.
Red D: Yeah. It could have gone a bit more in depth there. or just alluded to like you know I mean... And that's that.
Jamie: One wonders where the cap came from.
Red D: Agreed, Jenny.
Jen: and you can appreciate it
Red D: Agreed.
Jen: and you would appreciate it Thank
Jamie: One wonders what the captain thought Zaheer was, whether he was an 8 or a 9.
Red D: ah
Jen: I do you think that was foremost in her mind.
Red D: no
Jamie: Disagree.
Red D: bret
Jamie: ah She all but sang the bang, bang, bang -a -dee -bang song as Kes came in with a sort of knowing smile of, ah, Kes!
Red D: I thought she did have...
Jamie: You're three years old. You've been out and on the town.
Red D: Oh, yes. I've been watching How I Met Your Mother. I do love that. that catchy tune.
Jen: I haven't watched that in so long.
Jamie: Kes is the Bonnie of the Delta Quadrant.
Red D: but
Jamie: You heard it at last.
Red D: oh that is very rude
Jamie: She was all but singing challenge accepted as she beamed on down to the planet after that. Today she seeks complication.
Red D: um
Red D: Oh yeah. method ah kind of like i like that a little bit like you know her life has been the same now for a while a little bit. And I thought Janeway handled the like... um you know her initial when she said something about like i'm thinking about leaving the ship And then Janeway says like a very...
Red D: or something like that?
Jen: Yeah.
Red D: you know, managing her own maybe a disappointment or...
Jamie: and she Is she saying, I hope you don't want a pension?
Red D: No way.
Jen: That's what we're done to see.
Red D: ah but yeah so something is cut more a little bit short in that scene but some things Interesting.
Red D: Sorry, I was just throwing in my two cents there.
Jen: No exactly, that's what we want. Big point of them. discuss
Red D: As someone whose life is always the same. I think I can see the appeal of some complications. But please, not with my flat sail touch. going very well thank you
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: Oh yes! Fingers crossed.
Red D: Thank you, Universe. Thank you, everybody.
Jamie: so this is
Jen: fingers cross hum especially at that age as well, you know having some complication. I mean, it's probably better to do it when you're young, isn't it?
Jamie: Hmm.
Jen: Thank you. decide to yourself.
Red D: I think she was a... I mean... I don't think she was pursuing anything like... I mean. maybe compressed time, but that's just TV. Like she met someone.
Red D: they will retract each other maybe he wants to go off up and Do an adventure together? It's pretty common. Tapia for a trip. holiday
Jamie: Yeah.
Red D: Nothing extreme I don't think.
Jen: I think I'm just thinking about it more in the terms of theme. Not the trip but... If the trip goes well.
Red D: Yeah, she is saying goodbye to boy
Jen: She leave. like everything she's known every like all family friends like bolt security. Bop.
Jamie: Amen.
Jen: you know on a risking You know, just... have a fabulous future with this And she's falling in love with him, so good.
Jen: Who knows difficult decisions?
Red D: Are there many people that have moved country? or My friend now lives in New Zealand because she met a guy in London. Sweet.
Jen: Yes, but did she meet him? in the space of what we assume we can assume is a few days and then make the decision.
Red D: no i did caveat with The compressed time is maybe a problem.
Jen: yeah that's the That's the risky element for me anyway.
Jamie: expedited Expedited courtship, I believe is the phrase.
Jen: is that Yeah, it wouldn't be risky at all if it wasn't for the like of the fact that yeah It's been a three day courtship and then she's...
Red D: But he's a young John Howe!
Jen: going to have to leave everything.
Red D: Jenny? I think she should do.
Jamie: she's so She's three years old. She knows her mind.
Jen: It's a shame that like... that those are the choices you know like in in the real world you can do a bit more of a like
Red D: That is a shame.
Red D: in between.
Jamie: Sift.
Jen: Yeah, you can gently you know get to know someone whilst look not leaving forever your all your friends and family.
Red D: Thank goodness. Thank goodness.
Jen: goodness it
Red D: oh
Jen: um
Red D: Sorry, yeah
Jen: I'll see you guys. Who would I call? Let's go.
Red D: I've also lost track.
Jen: Terrible look. moderator.
Jamie: You have one job, moderator. One job.
Jen: I know. I failed. Alright, well...
Red D: What was your point? I thought it was Jamie's.
Jen: That's almost giving her up.
Jamie: Is it me? Is it?
Red D: Yeah.
Jen: That's just as cute as you.
Jamie: What was Jenny's point?
Red D: Jenny's point was the autistic license and then we went to...
Jamie: Is it?
Red D: How deep is that?
Jamie: Oh, okay.
Red D: so
Jamie: I thought it it was at the pros and cons conversation. fun.
Jen: nude, you know what?
Jamie: All right.
Jen: that conversation that we fell into was my last point as well so now i have no concept oh dear
Jamie: Yeah.
Red D: oh
Jamie: Hmm. Oh, yeah.
Jen: I kind of did two in one. Okay, i definitely over two years after Amy.
Jamie: Yeah. So I'd like to talk about... well, I can talk about one thing, I can talk about three. I've talked about the whole, can we talk about the whole I'm nearly three, I'm a grown -up thing that just seems to be accepted by the entire crew and team in a way that I find morally questionable. And growing from that, can we talk about the need once more, along with a functioning psychic defence unit on the ship,
Jamie: for a functioning HR department, because, like, the doctor has... got away with steadily more literal murder. As the episode goes on, starting with the whole touching Balana's legs while diagnosing her with absolutely no HR intervention there.
Jamie: and no HR intervention of a threat of bodily violence on her part towards a respected member of the crew, by which I mean the Doctor. So I frankly think that HR is needed.
Jen: I think it's a really valid point actually, Jamie, because here's the thing. Once you start getting into holographic freedom. Right.
Jamie: And indeed, brothels, by the look of it.
Jen: and if you're a human obviously your sentencing can be attenuated by berries. factors. um but you know you're still held responsible if you kill someone like maybe it was man's daughter or maybe they were you know other factors you know make it different to so a serial killer. who's pure evil, um but pure hologram.
Jen: Yes, the extenuating circumstances would be the fact that the subroutines a away from it. But then he did I don't know, should he take some responsibility for the fact that he decided to sort of...
Jen: I'm just going to mess with my subroutines, you know, because I want to experiment.
Red D: that's another good point
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: And was that kind of reckless? Awesome.
Jamie: hmm
Jen: I function with that. I don't know
Red D: Yeah, that's a very good point because, I mean, in our legal system...
Jamie: Yeah.
Red D: he Even if you don't intend for something to go wrong. Someone is seriously home.
Jamie: Hmm.
Red D: here I'm normally held to something. Yeah.
Jen: Yeah. even if it's just negligence. it's still and look. and it wasn't intentional. So with all these holograms running around now they're gonna have to update the legal system and the HR.
Jamie: is
Red D: Yeah, HR is gonna be fine in this new world.
Jamie: Thank you very much.
Red D: as a job.
Jen: Yeah, plenty. Plenty of jobs in HR. We all need to switch.
Red D: Maybe we should retrain.
Jen: Yeah. Although, I mean, I have to say with all the um you know as i mentioned before i started all the you know powerpoint critifying i've been having to do this week i was thinking and this is definitely something that AI could do. and so i tried it and it was terrible so all these people in the media saying oh ai is gonna steal the jobs of the creatives i don't know how because become
Jamie: No system.
Red D: Creatives? Yeah, I don't know.
Jen: If it can't improve it... you can't approve a simple powerpoint
Jamie: Hmm.
Jen: I...
Red D: Yep. Yeah, creatives.
Jen: Massive turn.
Red D: Yeah I tend to agree. See? Not with those people, sorry. uh But anything else, Jamie? Otherwise, I think it's my turn next. Speeding ahead.
Jamie: i name
Jen: taking my job people
Red D: Sorry.
Jamie: Yeah, what the hell, Red? I was still going and it's Jenny's job to tell me when to not still be going.
Red D: okay sorry
Jen: Okay, Jamie stop.
Jamie: Jenny, can you tell me not to still be going?
Jen: I mean I just did.
Red D: Nervous.
Jen: So...
Jamie: Don't you highlight all the things that I've already done on my notes as a way of telling me Jamie you're done You tell me to my face or nothing
Jen: Done. I'm gonna delete the wall.
Jamie: Oh, right. Sorry about that. Apparently I'm dumb.
Jen: Gone.
Red D: ja
Jamie: You deleted all my stuff!
Red D: ah you in your shit ah no Are you? Oh shit.
Jamie: Yes, I am in my shed.
Red D: Why is it so - Why does it look so open? Does it always look that open? Is it just a toy?
Jamie: No, I opened so that you guys could see the cat that's just where my thumb is pointing.
Jen: right thank you
Red D: Cute. trying to lose the cloak in that one. Anyway, sorry, random.
Jen: thank you
Jamie: That's okay.
Jen: Okay, over to you, Red. Over to you.
Red D: uh yes so i think there were a couple of things just uh scene wise or cinematography I didn don't really know how to group them but I had just had two I really love the scene with the three moons I just like stuff when they're like
Jamie: Hmm. Yeah.
Red D: when you're reminded that you're not Okay. Oh, universal. but God, see whatever. And I thought when, well, it turns out the doctor throws Zahia over the cliff, that was a pretty ah epic scene.
Red D: I mean, it was filmed, like, from below. He's wearing that. look and you kind of
Jamie: Hmm.
Red D: It's quite dramatic.
Jen: Yeah.
Jamie: Huh? How did Zaheer survive? the fall that the doctor tries to... oh my gosh it's another parallel! The Doctor, when he tries to jump off the cliff with Kez, is very sort of ah Sherlock Holmes, The Reichenbach Falls and Moriarty as well, isn't it?
Jamie: Another nod to the literature of that period.
Red D: I just listened to that episode on in BBC Sounds. hmm
Jen: I agree though, it's very dramatic, isn't it? It's almost a bit strange that he survives. because it seems...
Red D: Yes, always.
Jen: It definitely seems like. That's it.
Red D: The end.
Jen: yeah I mean how... I mean how tall is that cliff? Clearly not that tall.
Red D: Maybe they're very resilient species. but again something that was kind of just not explained
Jen: Maybe. Maybe he belts.
Red D: but so yeah But... Very nice to watch.
Jamie: hmm
Jen: Yeah. It was good he didn't die.
Jamie: Amen.
Jen: That would be a bit upsetting. kids.
Red D: Yeah.
Jen: And I think it's back to you, JB, because I am out. I'll just you know. Nick.
Jamie: i don't know i i just i said my last thing with the reichenbach fall thing
Jen: Comment on your comments.
Jen: Oh. So, it's all down to you, Red.
Red D: I only have one more. question really i think um which is Why didn't the doctor just add more patients to his program? if he wanted to be more patient. do you think there's just like a patience module
Jamie: He didn't. He wanted to be more like Byron.
Red D: I know, but he said so he could be more patient and have a better bedside batter.
Jamie: Bye.
Red D: I was like, why didn't you just program more patients in?
Jen: There's lots of different ways he could have done it that would be safer really, isn't there?
Jamie: No.
Jen: like you could also have chosen other ah physicians who had great legislative matters.
Red D: Yes.
Jen: like so why why would you randomly choose like ah a poet, a political politician.
Red D: A very good idea.
Jamie: i mean Freezing but yes.
Jen: The philosopher.
Jamie: Freezing, but yes.
Jen: I guess, do you know what, it's keeping with his character though, because you know how he's quite like...
Red D: That's true.
Jen: sort of upperity and
Jamie: It tends to get carried away with the tool.
Jen: yeah it's so snowy Yeah, and you must have thought, oh, I just... best most famous you know famous philosophers and all these
Jamie: Hmm.
Jen: incorporate them.
Red D: you're right it is very in character because when he was trying to choose a name wasn't he like the looking at all the famous doctors Okay.
Jen: Yeah. Yeah, they're pretty. ones with impressive CVs.
Red D: So yes. No, you're right. You're right. It's in character. just And it wouldn't have led to this episode. it just become
Jen: yeah I mean, I'm trying to make you know reasons but it doesn't make sense like
Red D: That does make sense, actually.
Jamie: um
Jen: Thank you. Thank you Cedric.
Red D: You're right.
Jamie: <unk>s just the
Jen: um Deuces! Lots of fumes! Sorry, have we actually... Is that...
Red D: yeah
Jen: Okay. Yes, we are out of themes.
Jamie: Also, who deleted all of Red's stuff on the notes?
Jen: You did, you were just...
Red D: I still see my stuff.
Jamie: I didn't.
Red D: I don't know what you mean.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: We knew it was you, Jamie. Don't you dare delete the themes!
Jamie: Wouldn't dare.
Red D: I only had one but someone wrote down a lot or was that both of you?
Jamie: not this one
Jen: Have you ever you just deleted the themes and now you can't get them back?
Jamie: um um
Jen: Jamie, you've ruined the theme. section.
Red D: I can read all the themes.
Jamie: what are you talking about the themes are exactly where you you know put them
Jen: Okay, okay. All right. Well, I bet I'm going to go through the ones I suggested really quick.
Jen: Oh! exasperation Okay, crosswords with knife choices.
Red D: Yes.
Jen: Who cares? and personalities. the light and the dark.
Red D: Oh yeah, we didn't really touch on that bit yet.
Jen: and then like the whole exploration versus security and safety. family and friends. Oh and personal growth. you know, because the Doctor's trying to grow his personality. questionable ways.
Jen: Kes is also trying to... live a life more complicated
Red D: Yeah.
Jen: Self approval.
Jamie: I... I would like to point to the influence of Shakespearean literature in shaping our narratives of all of those themes, particularly the light and dark. and the need or the inability to...
Jamie: ultimately defeat our dark side that is parodied in Sherlock's. leap off the Reichenbach Falls trying to take his dark side with him.
Red D: That's why you're on this podcast, Jamie. thank you for that ah
Jamie: It's alright, it's some deep bollocks that was probably bollocks.
Jen: Deep.
Red D: Uh... Are you gonna give your other theme?
Jamie: I didn't have any other themes.
Red D: I assume you wrote that. hu Well, someone said there should be some licensing for the Tricorders.
Jamie: Oh, yeah, no, that was me. Yeah, tricorders need to be licensed.
Red D: that What? Who was he?
Jamie: Tricorders need to be licensed the way guns are. I mean, it's... Far too easy for a rogue doctor who's been messing with his programming with some Byronic to Powick. uh and socratic dark instincts to be able to kidnap a crew member paralyse a Klingon and disguise where they have transported themselves with a simple tricorder. Sorry, but, you know, they need to be licensed, those things.
Red D: That's it. As Jenny said, a very good point. thing
Jamie: Thank you.
Jen: Maybe they are licensed.
Red D: a
Jamie: You're all done.
Jen: and we just didn't know about it
Red D: They always seem to just be lying around. There's no, like, a tricorder safe. Wait, I stole them.
Jen: Okay.
Red D: But although, it' to be fair, yeah, they do wear them on a holster. but like Anyway, I'm getting distracted.
Jen: Mystery.
Red D: i
Jen: Mystery.
Red D: add one theme which was unintended consequences which is one of my Scariest. themes in my own personal life. I'm always afraid of unintended consequences.
Jamie: what
Jamie: What do you expect to happen?
Jen: Yeah.
Red D: Perhaps.
Jen: what was that
Jamie: You're gonna cough and it lightning strikes?
Red D: No, but, you know, I do think. now i just realized that i think so many steps ahead to kind of try to address that fear of unintended consequences.
Jen: Or you'd be good at chess.
Red D: it's a
Jamie: I think that might be an anxiety.
Red D: You know how much? What? So what was that, Jane?
Jamie: I said I think it might be anxiety.
Red D: Yeah.
Jen: if
Red D: Anxiety about unintended consequences. Why are you not understanding?
Jamie: Yeah, I think that might be anxiety driven red.
Red D: oh
Jen: just like me with my backup plans i always have like planning easy it's it's it can be helpful but Maybe I focus on them too much. Okay.
Red D: But I do like the idea. I mean, I do like chess. I wish I was good at it. But all that memorizing moves, I don't think I'm good at. so that me
Jen: I... I've tried split chest. times. and every time. um i do I barely know her play. i'm very not an extreme novice but every time I've tried it. I get so stressed out because that's exactly what it's about.
Jen: and It's about thinking.
Jamie: Hmm.
Jen: and So it's like this could happen and then this could happen. or this could happen this or this and then this and it overwhelms me. because it's it's
Red D: That's my job!
Jen: i
Jamie: No.
Red D: I need to get back into playing chess.
Jen: so
Jamie: Let's do this.
Jen: That's why I can't play it, I'm just... stresses me out I mean, it's very impressive.
Red D: i was i was such a wannabe nerd that i like joined the chess club in junior school but I mean, did I go on to become a chess champion?
Jen: i a will
Red D: no so anyway Wow.
Jen: Oh, you should play James, he never gets to play with me because I'm so useless.
Red D: is probably very good. We can try one day. Yeah.
Jen: Are you serious?
Red D: ah
Jamie: Don't you give me I assume he is
Jen: It's okay because
Jen: it's okay because i mostly I'll beat him. every time we apart from once. That's great.
Red D: I was gonna say do you crush him at Scrabble?
Jen: and apart from one time and
Jamie: Now...
Jen: one time he was like oh do you want to play scrabble and i was like
Jamie: If you're only as good as your last result... What was the last?
Jen: I was like, I'm so tired, Jamie.
Jamie: colleagues.
Jen: I can barely keep my eyes open. He was like, oh, but I was like, oh, okay then.
Jamie: ah Oh, or or oh poorch lady poor Jenny, Jenny.
Jen: And then he can beat me. so you know
Jamie: She crushes me all the time apart from her last result. I'm sorry. this is as lame This is as lame as the exchange of excuses between Guildford Mixed Old People's Quad and London Bester Mixed Old People's Quad last Saturday before the actual race.
Red D: You know, you just reminded me.
Red D: But you're racing against London Vesta.
Jamie: Yes.
Jen: Yeah.
Red D: Oh,
Jen: the name.
Jamie: Old people.
Red D: Nice. um but you know how you see people playing chess in public and there's by waterloo there's like a chess club that meets but actually once i was in the national theater And it was like a Scrabble Club.
Red D: That was like playing Scrabble.
Jamie: oh cool
Red D: inside I was like, how did I join this club?
Jamie: o
Jen: Oh.
Red D: of 70 year old people, but I want to try.
Jamie: Like high stakes poker, but more vicious.
Jen: I've never tried one.
Jen: But the thing is I quite like in my head thinking i'm good because i always beat say my family and jb but the minute i play actual people who like I don't want to... you you remove the fantasy that I'm good at Scrabble.
Jamie: Hmm.
Red D: you are it is also i think there's different ways of playing scrabble there's ways of playing people some people people play for the good words some people play
Jamie: Hmm.
Red D: for those like... to hit those like triple point letters and like they know all those like little random words that like
Jen: yeah
Red D: they can pull up.
Jen: Yes. Huh?
Red D: I do.
Jen: others. yeah Certainly.
Red D: ah
Jen: So, on to Star Player. I actually have one this time so...
Jamie: o
Jen: life okay first yeah now because I hardly ever possibly never vote for Kez.
Red D: ah
Jen: I feel like I should vote for her on this occasion. just for the lovey -dovey expressions because I thought they were convincing and hilarious.
Jamie: o
Jen: Very teenage, dreamy. Oh, he's so lovely. kind of looks Very convincing.
Red D: Yes, and also the way she was like, yeah, i want meet I want you to meet this person. He's very unique. like you know trying to feel all you know, subtle but really doing it.
Jamie: let assessment
Red D: Oh wait.
Jen: Yeah. Yeah. It's very well done.
Red D: have
Jen: So, Red, do you have one ready?
Red D: well Yeah, I feel like Jamie... he's gonna have one i don't want to steal his one so i had two i had two actually um I want to go for the special effects. I did write it down.
Red D: But the special effects and the doctor returns to the...
Jamie: Nice.
Red D: holodeck and to his four personality. No. personality highest or personalities he chose and as as we as you alluded to already we've got like gandhi's head is spinning socrates is like cut in half on the floor and hollow
Jamie: Yep. Yep.
Jamie: You know what?
Red D: And then like... movement under the skin. off. uh byron Um, i thought you know like for that time those were good special effects as yeah
Jamie: Can I point out, we're all assuming that Byron was malfunctioning. He could have just been battered.
Red D: Yes, okay, that's fair.
Jamie: That would have been in character. I think a lot of people made a lot of assumptions on his part, though. Sorry, you were saying red.
Red D: But I did like the special effects. So that would be my...
Jamie: nice Thanks.
Red D: Star player is a special effects team. on this episode.
Jen: Thank you. And Jamie?
Jamie: So I have two star players. The first is following my equipmentally themed star player. Uh... approach to it. I think the tricorder for getting the doctor out of a really tight spot. I think we have to take our hats off to that simple piece of medical equipment that apparently is industrial grade.
Jamie: tracking disruptor software. And I think Neelix, who in not being the buffoon of this episode in which his ex is running around chasing tail, shows a degree of restraint that we haven't thus far been able to see from him. And it may have been a learning experience for him that he will be better for.
Jamie: Who knows?
Red D: Yeah, when Zaheer bumped off the club, I was like, was that me legs? you know we didn't know yet who it was but then i i think i will also see the doctor That's my, that's my other stock there.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: Oh yes, of course, we can't have...
Red D: is i think that
Jen: Someone's got to see a doctor for that, absolutely.
Red D: Yeah.
Jen: Yeah. i mean I only just held off because I know there's so many Doctor episodes where I wrote them.
Red D: No, he is we've got to remember this. Somehow remember this. because he does a couple more of these.
Jen: Yeah. And actually, I mean,
Jamie: Good.
Jen: I think he does a great job but I really... Bye. preferences when he's doing comedic acting. i think i think he's
Red D: Yes, yeah
Jen: for doing that.
Jamie: Hmm.
Jen: Thank you.
Red D: This was a very uncomfortable character. so it was uncomfortable going in the star player but that physical transformation as you said jamie It's just very good.
Jamie: Hmm, yeah. Peace. He's not a figure of fun, is he, in this?
Red D: God.
Jen: You could say he really enjoys playing it though.
Red D: No.
Jen: like
Jamie: Oh yeah, go for it.
Jen: It's just something. different you know
Jamie: throws himself into it shows a range that you know is... A more complete actor than we've realised.
Jen: So that's it guys, it's time for the jingle.
Red D: Great.
Jamie: That's all folks!
Red D: Should I quickly look up the next? steps that done
Jamie: Yeah, also how long is this?
Red D: is
Jen: one
Red D: I've seen this, I don't know ah then Costa had an update so things look a bit Different. I don't know if they look different for you But you say, how long is this episode?
Red D: Is that your question, Jamie?
Red D: God bless you. The next episode is Rise. See you then! and See you now. and jenny for for your next update.
