Transcript
Red D: single
Jamie: Julie, are you hitting the jingle?
Red D: of some kind. Oh, it's the right jingle, baby.
Jamie: have you stopped making Have you stopped making gags about things that change size mid-call?
Red D: i just said change on the duration of a call.
Jamie: we We all knew what you meant, Red, and as a man, I am offended by you decided to make an election joke.
Red D: I'll change size.
Red D: As a man, you thought my interviewer was flirting with me because you touched her hair. so
Jamie: Yeah, they were, a dude!
Red D: You
Jamie: Like, I'm allowed to, you know, be delusional because of my gender.
Red D: would have to make ridiculous suggestions that's
Jamie: I love the fact that we're all sort of Borg dancing to this jingle that people can't say, it's really sort of building my vibe into this.
Jen: Oh, I don't think it's Borg dancing. It's far too fluid and creative.
Jamie: mine Mine is definitely Borg dancing.
Red D: i guess i don't have any pay attention so if there's a tangent on this journey you want to throw all that uh anti-working
Jamie: Jenny's looking to me like i'm a right worder.
Jen: That's exactly what I'm going to do. Yeah, I was i was quite looking forward to this because I'm just i'm just tired of work calls today. Well, a call that isn't work.
Red D: Nice. Very good. We have Jenny in one corner, bringing her very much egg And Jenny in the other corner, bringing her some more passwords.
Jen: Guys, did we talk about who's moderating today?
Jamie: Has this gotten longer?
Red D: Yes. i think it is my turn based on the notes that I made many, many years ago.
Jamie: I did Ponfar even more years ago. And I also did the episode Ponfar many years ago.
Red D: Yes, I think it's my turn. Yes.
Jen: Okay, good.
Red D: yep
Jen: I just realized i didn't know, so it would be a bit of a shock if there's something
Red D: No, no.
Jamie: think
Red D: I was just like, when you were like, I'm going to put all my energy into the podcast tonight.
Jamie: it's Jenny.
Red D: i was like, does she want to moderate? Because that can be arranged.
Jen: Oh no, there will I will always do it when it's my turn, but there will be no bulletproof.
Red D: No problem.
Jamie: Well, hang on.
Red D: So, go ahead, Jamie.
Jamie: No, it does always follow the order that it's listed on the sheet of paper. And for some reason I had a memory delusion that Jenny's name is at the bottom, not the top. It's not. Red's is at the bottom.
Red D: I think this time I accurately replaced the name in those brackets with myself, but then there were a couple of delays.
Jamie: Jenny's is at the top.
Jamie: Sivis pacem red parabellum. That's all I'll say.
Red D: Say it again.
Jamie: Sivis pacem parabellum.
Red D: Can you also give us the translation, please?
Jamie: You will get it at a certain stage of this podcast.
Red D: Okay, great.
Jamie: I may sound like an AI when I give it, but you will get it.
Red D: Jamie, have you sent your avatar to do the podcast recording? Okay, so welcome.
Jen: What language?
Jamie: Sorry?
Jen: What language was that?
Jamie: Well, it's archaic
Red D: I just assumed it was Latin for some reason.
Jen: I thought it was Latin as well.
Red D: Anyway. ah Not that I have...
Jamie: Wait, you guys genuinely think it's archaic Klingon?
Red D: Well, that's what you told us and you are a brilliant liar as you said offline.
Jen: Here we go.
Jamie: It's obviously Latin! Oh my days!
Jen: Some of us did not go to private school and learn Latin. Well, actually, I don't know if you did read it.
Jamie: that offens this That is an offensiveist offensive classist statement.
Red D: We thought it was Latin and we were right but once again...
Jen: You did.
Red D: Once again, we were gaslit by a man to doubt ourselves. Let me just say.
Jamie: And can I say I was jolly good at it.
Red D: You were.
Jamie: 10
Red D: Huge 10 out of 10, Jamie. 10 out of 10.
Jamie: out of 10 gaslighting.
Jen: Worryingly good, as if you've had lots of practice.
Jamie: All lying. Is lying the same as gaslighting?
Red D: No, i was just using the term gaslighting to overuse it, really. To tap into the current zeitgeist, although...
Jamie: That's pretty sexist, Red. That's pretty sexist. That's all I'll say. I'll let you off it, but you know HR will be in touch.
Red D: Okay. Now, welcome back, everyone, to Season 3, Episode 17. episode named unity jenny i mean sorry not jenny jamie have you forgiven my sexism enough to give us a one minute summary
Jamie: Gosh, for the chance to hear the sound of my own voice, I'll put aside the offences against my gender. I've never been this excited. um So, Chakotay finds himself with a nameless henchperson doing circles in the Delta Quadrant.
Red D: kaplan
Jamie: Yeah, they keep saying it, but it's so close to a nameless henchman it feels performative. doing circles in the Delta Quadrant before he answers a hail on a planet which turns out to be populated by warring factions of Alpha Quadrant humanoids.
Jamie: He's shot and the nameless henchperson, whose name Kaplan, is repeated almost as though they're trying to make the point they haven't made her a nameless henchperson, rather too firmly.
Red D: Hmm.
Jamie: And whilst Kaplan is killed, Chakotay... is wounded but then rescued by a faction of shadowy interlopers. Chakotay wakes to find himself being ministered to by a beautiful human who explains that she and her faction of humanoids are part of a bigger group of Alpha Quadrant sentients who have claimed this planet.
Jamie: Chakotay listens and later on we discover as he infiltrates his captors complex on escape from the clutches of this beautiful interloper that they are Borg or Ex Borg.
Jamie: The crew of the Voyager investigate and when Chakotay succumbs to wounds suffered he's healed by the chance to join a miniature collective within the colony.
Jamie: Once he survives that and is healed, he is asked by the collective to go and intercede with his captain and ask for her help to activate a nearby Borg ship to try and bring peace to the world by reactivating a miniature collective circuit.
Jamie: The plot thickens as Chakotay is seduced by his beautiful tender, Riley, and then when he feels that he has gotten away, he is taken over by the mind control of the Collective and forced to activate the Borg ship against his will. This inadvertently saves the colony as they're able to bring peace to the colony and we see Chakotay and Voyager leaving
Jamie: once they have secured Chakotay and subdued him, with the collective saying that they had removed him from the link and that they were sorry they had to force him. The captain is left to ponder the implications of this and the potential for both good and evil from the new cooperative.
Jen: oh round of applause yeah can't believe you just come up with that off the cuff
Red D: Yes, very good, Jamie, thank you. Oh,
Jamie: Well, I just watched it, so, you it's the sort of thing you do to be able to hear the sound of your own voice, you know.
Red D: ah
Jamie: Come on, chaps, you know the sexist troops that we should be getting behind to undermine my achievement here.
Red D: it was great. um I just love what kind of I guess they termed the Borg Collective to the Borg Cooperative. And I'm like, doesn't have the same ring to it.
Jamie: It's like, we're not the collective, we're the co-op.
Red D: oh
Jamie: which to those of our listeners who may not be English is notable in England for the fact it is a very well-known and very mundane supermarket chain.
Red D: It is a bit mundane, but it is one of the few places can find peanut, not peanut, sorry, peanut on the brain now, Jenny, popcorn kernels, unpopped popcorn kernels instead of just getting.
Jamie: Yes, it is a mundane supermarket chain famed for popt pop companies.
Red D: It's
Jamie: corn kernels as opposed to species and societal domination through assimilation.
Red D: hard to say.
Red D: Yeah, brilliant. Thank you, Jamie.
Jamie: Or it may be, who knows, but not here.
Red D: On to initial reactions. Jenny, I think you've already put something in the notes. So do you want to kick off initial reactions?
Jen: Yay Borg!
Red D: ah
Jen: That's what I put.
Jamie: As opposed to Pjornburg!
Jen: Yay Borg!
Jen: I love the Borg. They are brilliant villains. They are terrifying and fascinating and indestructible and just primitive.
Red D: Yeah.
Jamie: and green.
Red D: ha They do have a green tinge. and I'd love your excitement for the Borg. I mean, they are great, as you say, villains, but no one should be that excited about the Borg in real life. We don't know, do
Jamie: Gosh, do they really exist?
Jen: I mean, imagining they were real, yes, that would be not exciting at all.
Red D: we? don't know daie
Jen: That would be absolutely terrifying.
Red D: ah Jamie, any initial reactions, excitement about the Borg, excitement about something else?
Jamie: I don't know. i just... There are things about this episode that terrify me. Things about this episode that rub me up the wrong way. Things that touch me. Things that move me.
Jamie: Things that thing sing me. Things that thrill me.
Red D: Another amazing contribution from Jamie. Jenny, should we just jump off this circle and we'll leave Jamie to it?
Jamie: just Just sort of felt like going on one there. Yeah, I was really searching for something as good as Jenny's EA Beyond Borg um contribution and I just went on meandering a meandering journey of fortune.
Jen: just
Jen: I'm really being shown up today, Jamie. I don't know, this is amazing, this amazing, eloquent one minute summary.
Jamie: What? What do you mean?
Jen: And I jump in with my, i think, quippy,
Jamie: I'm talking absolute nonsense, Jenny. I'm so hot that I should be doing this in my pants rather than the pair of shorts.
Jen: snappy yay borg and then and then here you come with your eloquent poetic sentence oh
Jamie: nonsense as in nonsense is what i'm talking
Red D: love I loved both your contributions for the record.
Jen: it's very diplomatic
Red D: um No, I did, but I was also like, I'm trying to think of my initial reactions and I was trying to also remember that it's not just supposed to be my initial reaction in the first few minutes of watching it, but... and I think I kind of did remember the episode a bit, but it took a long time to like confirm that ah that was the episode that I thought it was, but I didn't actually remember the ending. So for me, there was like a lot of tension, I guess, which was kind of fun because you have the Borg tension, like, okay, the Borg are there, but how are they going to actually, what's it going to lead to?
Red D: And then I guess for me, the biggest tension was, I feel like there's some twist at the end. Is Riley a goodie or baddie? I couldn't remember. And then, and I was like, oh, please don't like, use Chakotay or please, well, I get, yeah.
Jamie: What do we think she is in the end? Is she a good hero or bad hero?
Red D: I mean, I think it's not a straightforward question, like question but I enjoyed the emotional rollercoaster because I remembered some of it, but I didn't remember how it turned out.
Jamie: Hmm.
Red D: And so there was a kind of expectation and tension for me. That that was fun.
Jen: It's not your typical Borg episode, is it? So I think, yeah, I can, same for me in terms of memory of watching this one.
Red D: No.
Jen: I was thinking, oh, it's a Borg one, but I don't remember it very well. And that's probably why, because it's sort of about Borg, but it's also about a new Borg, a different type of Borg, a less ruthless, yes, potentially less ruthless co-op Borg.
Jamie: A co-op borg.
Jamie: A co-op borg who does popcorn kernels.
Red D: Oh, dear. Jamie, I really hope your internet's very good out there in the garden, that the planes don't fly too close to your head.
Jamie: I mean, I can hear you and I can see it now looks as though I'm in the in the wild in a greenhouse but it's all good, or it feels good from where I am.
Red D: ah
Jamie: Does it feel good from where you are?
Red D: and I guess you're overheating, but there's a lot of...
Jamie: Ah, it's not good. Okay, I'm moving back.
Jen: Well, the audio is very good for me, but you're just a bit pixelated.
Red D: It's not lot.
Jen: That's just my... Yeah.
Red D: There's, I think, a lot of plane noise in the background for me. i don't know if Jenny...
Jamie: Don't tell people that, Red.
Jen: yeah
Red D: Oh
Jamie: They'll know where we are and we've nearly had a data breach already.
Red D: my gosh. We live in London where a plane flies every five and a half seconds. But
Jamie: They now know we live in London, Red. They didn't know that before. We're under threat from teenagers with AI.
Red D: I don't want you to overheat. ah Sorry. If you get very desperate, please go back outside. um
Jamie: mean, when you put it like that...
Red D: Sorry. I do also have to think of about three listeners, which is why they're sitting back inside. Okay.
Jamie: Yeah, dude.
Red D: Moving on to one cool thing. I don't know if you guys noticed, but this was directed by Robert Duncan McNeil.
Jamie: Hmm.
Red D: Is that his name? Why do I always forget? By Paris. um So, yes.
Jen: I did not know that. That is very interesting.
Red D: Oh.
Jamie: Aw.
Jen: um very And it makes me rethink the whole thing and imagine it as him directing.
Jamie: Yeah.
Red D: Yes, I think it does change things, but I never used to notice this the first time, you know, all my ah rewatches and watching, but after listening to the Delta Flyers podcast, then you start to learn that some of the actors do directing and everything.
Red D: So I think I notice it more when it pops up on on screen.
Jamie: Hmm.
Jen: Yeah, same.
Jamie: Fascinating. He doesn't really give his character many big sort of moments, does he?
Red D: So
Red D: yeah, it's too busy directing.
Jen: Yeah, yeah, it can't be both.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: Gosh, it's a lot of work, surely.
Red D: think so.
Jen: and do feel like after you have told us about this, Red, because saw it on the notes just before, I was starting to think that it was probably me reading too much into it, but I feel like I could see his direction, particularly in the Chakotay borglady scenes.
Jamie: Mmm.
Jen: You know?
Red D: Oh.
Jen: Maybe he was putting some of his Paris character into those.
Jamie: Mmm. Num shaka-wow-wow.
Jen: Yeah.
Red D: I see what you're saying. That was a highly charged scene. A
Jamie: It was... Is that what we're calling it now?
Red D: highly erotically charged scene.
Jamie: What are you trying to say here, red
Red D: Electrically charged, sorry.
Jamie: What are you trying to say?
Red D: oh
Jamie: don't know.
Red D: Shame Jamie trying
Jamie: I'm just going to sort of throw that sprays at you until you crack and realise that I'm just being annoying.
Red D: Okay.
Jen: Wait, you're going on a tour of the house, JB.
Red D: I think he's trying to stay cool.
Jamie: Yeah, it's boiling.
Jen: Oh, I really, oh, it's not so
Jamie: Yeah. London has not fallen, but, you know, has been heated considerably.
Red D: Great. So should we dive into the brown robin discussion for want of a better phrase? I'm going to, oh, I need to make my little tracker. So I can...
Jen: bad. Oh, wow, we have trackers now.
Jamie: What? Do we have KPIs?
Jen: You're so organized.
Red D: No, no, I always do this. I have Jenny, Jamie, Red, so I can remember who one of these posts and stuff
Jamie: What? You're not listening enough to remember what order we're in? That's offensive.
Red D: it is.
Jamie: Even with my attention deficit disorder. Gosh.
Jen: It's quite hard to listen and direct and facilitate and all these things.
Red D: I am listening.
Jamie: Tom Paris could do it.
Red D: Yeah, I'm not, I'm no Paris, that's for sure. But also sometimes people, you know, jump in, and so then I can lose track, which is all good. So, Jenny,
Jen: I stick to the plan no matter what.
Red D: ah Jenny, do you want to kick us off on your what?
Jamie: What? <unk>
Red D: What? i haven't like I haven't read anything, so go for it. Dive in.
Jen: I would love to kick it off and I especially love that for once you've not read ahead my notes. I love that.
Red D: Yeah, I never read anyone's notes. I've got to be honest. think
Jen: Oh, great. Oh, it must be Jamie then who's always reading ahead.
Red D: It's Jamie. Yep.
Jamie: what
Jen: I'm sure we've had this discussion before and I was scandalised to find out that one of you read notes ahead. Maybe I imagine that.
Red D: No, I think Jamie does a good what job of reading them on the go and then like pulling in your points from your different points.
Jamie: Well,
Jamie: Yeah, I do it to keep the conversational flow.
Red D: I don't have the capability to do that.
Jamie: Gosh, dreadful humans. This is a socially social anxiety-driven practice on my behalf to make a more successful podcast for our however many listeners who give us our hundred or so downloads a month.
Jamie: How dare you?
Red D: yeah
Jamie: How dare you?
Jen: Well, to be fair, I do do it occasionally when I can't think of anything to write and then I read your notes and then you give me great ideas, you know.
Jamie: Hoist on her own petard. Unbelievable.
Red D: Now that is a confession, Jenny.
Jen: I know.
Red D: That is a true confession.
Jamie: Yeah, gosh, you little ratbags.
Jen: I know. know.
Red D: That's how the sausage is made, guys. I think that- is that the saying?
Jamie: Ooh, is there sausage?
Red D: oh
Jamie: I've never been given any sausage. Outrageous.
Jen: Well, I did not have to do that for this one because and I love Borg episodes. ah well My first the little point was just a really trivial tiny moment but I really like B'Elanna in this.
Jamie: Hmm.
Jen: I know she wasn't a major character in it. She just had like little moments but I really loved all her little moments and one was the gigantic pause as she said as they were discussing ah you know what could possibly have you know just destructed or shut down the Borg ship.
Jamie: Mm. Oh.
Jamie: Mm. Mm. Mm.
Jen: She said be this, could be that, but she said, or massive non-bores for effect. The Borg were defeated by enemy even more powerful than them. And then this is followed by a classic Tuvok eyebrow raise.
Jen: And sends chills down my spine, love it.
Red D: Yes, it was a very ominous moment.
Jamie: interesting
Red D: Sorry, Jamie.
Jamie: no no no you get through it get through it no i just was going to say that um for various different reasons on a social media account that i shall not make known uh there will soon be photos of me uh doing a vulcan eyebrow raise which i will talk to you guys about anon and leave it a mystery to the good uh listeners of this podcast jane may's children um
Red D: No, that's it. That's all I wanted to say.
Red D: This is very mysterious.
Jamie: I know, we've we've got to draw them in somehow, Red.
Jen: Well,
Jamie: We can't stay hooked at 100 listens a month. the The net is closing in on us. My family very nearly discovered us the other day.
Red D: ah We couldn't possibly have more listeners, as I said, offline.
Jamie: i There are some listeners you don't want, Red. There are some listeners you don't want. um Right, is is that me or is that Red next?
Red D: That's you up next. Thank you, Jamie. Go for it.
Jamie: Ah, well, I mean, I have two that, tur from the start of the episode, so the first is, can I just say, like, Chakotay's sigh on finding out that they've been going, they're not only lost, but they've been going in circles for two hours, is a priceless moment of management dealing with intern slash work experience level staff moment that he just brings home to whichever century they are.
Red D: oh
Jamie: And secondarily, I realised the start of this episode, Chakotay is Neelix this episode. He is the one who's doing stupid shit and that is the driver for drama in this. He's even in a scene with Neelix and Neelix is the one doing something sensible and Chakotay is the one doing something stupid at the stage of this. Chakotay is Neelix this episode. We need to remember that as a way of interpreting him for the rest of it.
Red D: I do love that observation and it means a lot of the puzzle pieces fall into place with Lena.
Jamie: I know, I know, I know, Red.
Red D: And it's also a bit more, you know, true to life because we have all been the stupid person. I mean, maybe, or maybe I'm speaking for myself only.
Jamie: don't what you're talking about.
Jen: No, no, yeah, yeah. I've definitely been up.
Jamie: Hmm.
Red D: So it's reassuring when even someone of Chakotis caliber gets it wrong. um Thanks, Jamie. I... um I made a very random minor note, but this is the longest I've ever gone without making ah my first observation, which was about seven minutes.
Red D: I didn't write anything about the first seven minutes, except that Paris was the director. But maybe tying back to what you already mentioned in the initial reactions, I really loved how the Borg have been introduced in the last couple of episodes and in this episode, because first, like, the tease, the hint, they find the
Jamie: Mm.
Red D: Borg corpse or the remains of the Borg.
Jamie: Mm. Mm.
Jen: Hmm. Hmm.
Red D: Then they come across this Borg cube and it's like panic stations but actually oh no it's offline so you're like okay maybe we don't need to worry but then the mystery around okay of the Borg didn't survive what did happen you know as you said what B'Elanna kind of hits that and it's like a real sense of mystery like this trying to solve the mystery what happened to the Borg as the mystery is kind of being revealed I guess on the planet which Cote is.
Red D: And then also, again, what you said, Jenny, was, you know, they didn't dive straight into, like, all-out action Borg fight scene, like, how to solve this. It's, like, a real expectation reversal of the Borg, because they are Borg that are disconnected from the... where the link has been severed.
Red D: They do good things, like they heal Chakotay. Yeah.
Jamie: yeah
Red D: and
Jamie: It's astounding how much use you can get out of them when they've been disconnected from Twitter.
Red D: And they I guess it's humanized Vorg. um So yeah, I like the way they like creating like new stories, teasing art before we gonna get to, I can't, I don't remember offhand how it all like, you know, um unfolds eventually, but eventually they're gonna be in conflict with the Vorg, but we didn't quite have to have that straight away.
Red D: It's just all new kind of, so I really enjoyed the reveal.
Jamie: Hmm.
Jen: Yeah.
Red D: And that's why Jenny is smiling because she loved that.
Jamie: Hmm. Hmm.
Jen: Yeah, I totally agree. The anticipation building throughout multiple episodes is brilliant.
Red D: Yes, yes.
Jen: um And even better than that is that I think I can vaguely remember the bits where we do get to the full on evil, ruthless Borg and battle stations. And because it's been sort of gently moving that way and anticipated to over numerous episodes.
Jen: you would worry that it would be a bit of an anticlimax.
Jamie: and
Jen: But from what I remember, it's fantastic. so
Red D: very good yes i also don't like there's no disappointment but yeah it's like it's just good storytelling i guess um jamie has dropped off briefly sure he'll he'll be back um but uh i guess jenny it's actually your turn if you want to go ahead or we can
Jen: We lost Jamie.
Jen: ah Yeah, absolutely. miss it. mr Beautiful, brilliant point, I'm sure. I'm happy to.
Red D: I'm very sure. Your points, I mean, as I said, I haven't read anything, but you've made some long detailed points.
Jen: and
Red D: so I'm looking forward to you.
Jen: They're very, yeah they're very long for this one. i don't really know why they're not like complicated or, you know, they're just very wordy. I've turned into Jamie. I'm going to Jamie for an episode.
Red D: The transformation is complete. You've been assimilated, Jenny.
Jen: Yes, finally, after all these years together, we have become one giant amoeba.
Red D: Oh.
Jen: and Anyway, moving on. ah so I just find it hilarious and love the way Janeway just switches character as soon as the Borg are there. So she's obviously usually this cooperative, you know, quite open and friendly character to all other aliens and species. and It's all about cooperation and whatnot. And then as soon as ah she identifies the Borg, she stands up and aha a wrecked alien ship let us board it and strip it to try and find a weakness to use against them ruthlessly it's just a hilarious switch i love it
Red D: she always has her eye on the prize and i sometimes the prize is quite um as you say ruthless so like a bit of a surprise oh yes yes
Jen: yes she's ruthless when she needs to be and soft when she needs to
Red D: exactly jamie you're back
Red D: jenny was just Jenny, do you want to quickly just summarise your last point?
Jen: Well, yes, without repeating myself too much, I was just expressing my and adoration of Janeway again and I particularly loved her jump from being a lovely, friendly, corruptive captain to a the Borg.
Jen: Let's try and find their weakness and use it against them. Go to war, Captain.
Red D: ah He swishfully picked them up and threw them in the trash. Is that, can I say that? Is that, I don't know about Captain Face. oh
Red D: I guess I need to learn more about BinFace. character I've never really taken seriously until now, it turns out. Jamie, any thoughts?
Jen: Well, I believe he is officially a an intergalactic alien of some sort. So I can see the link. um
Red D: I did not know that about
Jen: Yeah. oh yeah
Jen: I do feel as soon as Jamie said that, I was thinking i love how obviously people sometimes may say certain Star Trek um series are perhaps quite dated i love that our podcast is going to be dated in exactly the same way because there all these topical references especially this one been famous because
Red D: Yes, Countbinface is having a moment, from my very limited understanding. so He gets a mention on this podcast as well. He, she, it gets a mention on this podcast as well.
Red D: Okay, vote Countbinface. Please don't come for me. I don't know enough about this.
Red D: Oh, that sounds lovely. I'm in.
Jen: Well, would you like to know one of his policies that remember it?
Red D: Sure, go for it.
Jen: He believes that we should rename HS2 to FFS1. This is a very UK specific joke.
Red D: That's a very British thing. So I support that. I think most people would support that policy. oh ah Brilliant. Jamie, so before we go campaigning for Count Winface, sorry, I keep calling him Captain Count Winface.
Red D: I think he would. He's just had a little upgrade from me and non-person. um
Jen: promotion.
Red D: for a question. Jamie, what would you like to add next?
Red D: That's really interesting point because, yes, I guess that is a little bit of ah a pattern or whatever, but what is it about him that means that he is so vulnerable to these some situations?
Jen: Thank you.
Red D: Because that is
Red D: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I mean, he is very old.
Red D: Yeah, he's very chivalrous. ah I'm just trying to think of them his characteristics that might make him a bit more susceptible. A romantic, maybe he's a bit of a romantic.
Jen: It's interesting. Yeah, I hadn't really identified that as a pattern before. But you're quite right. He is susceptible to the young lady's
Red D: In a very intimate, emotional way, not just ah yeah.
Jen: emotional manipulation. Although I mean, I don't know that she's manipulated him in this particular episode. Seska certainly
Red D: Didn't pick that up.
Red D: That is so interesting we when you get the, the, in the, like a nugget about what they were trying to do. You're like, that's not how I interpret And it also reminds me, I'm sure I've shared the story before on this podcast, but when I was like, I was still in junior school. So maybe 12, uh, 11 or 12, we had to put on like little plays for class and we were doing like a little sci-fi plays or something. And our play was set on like the bridge of a ship or something like, so you don't want to use like contain things.
Red D: And I was playing this character and someone gave me the very terrible direction for 11 year old me or 12 year old me. They're like, I was a woman. So like, I'll play her really sexy. I mean, did this person know me? Had they been to school with me? i mean, if I'm not sexy now, I wasn't sexy when I was 12.
Red D: And we put on the show for the teacher and the teacher was like, Natalie, I really love what you did. I had no idea if you were a man or a woman because of the way you're playing your character.
Jen: So, well, maybe you were sexy, just maybe a sexy man.
Red D: But she said she didn't know. She didn't pick up that I was she definitely didn't pick up that I was trying to be sexy. because she went have know
Red D: That's true, but this was not a concept at the time. So I'm just saying.
Red D: Yeah.
Red D: I just think it's very funny because we find out this story that he was trying to make a very manipulative and we're like, really? Because he's a baby. And yeah, I have a similar experience.
Red D: I beg your pardon, Jamie.
Red D: Oh, yeah.
Red D: that's a very good point. Maybe if another actress had played that role, she wouldn't have been as likable. Because that's a very point.
Jen: you
Red D: um Okay, I think it's my turn now, which I think kind of relates a little bit to what you said, which was, I thought it was kind of funny when Riley, I guess, was trying to manipulate Chakotay, or started to ask for what she wanted, when she was like, I mean, I'm paraphrasing a lot here. She's like, we're building a peaceful, tolerant community. Now give us some weapons. I was like, To me, that's not, I understand there was a need, but to me, that was a like a little clue that things were not necessarily what they seemed.
Jen: Yeah. Hello?
Red D: Jamie, are you waving? um Yes, please speak.
Red D: Yes.
Red D: Oh, okay.
Red D: Oh, very good. ja ah Sorry. As you're talking, I accidentally muted Jenny instead of myself. So just want to tell Jenny to unmute herself.
Red D: but She wasn't talking, but I was trying to mute myself to cough and I hit Jenny's button by mistake because now they're two Janies. So there's four rows instead of three. I just want you to know there's a reason why I did that by mistake.
Red D: um So the the row that's normally in the position where I am was Jenny. Um,
Jen: okay, Red, I believe you. I don't think are.
Red D: Yes, I'm not trying to silence you on our podcast.
Jen: Shut up, Jamie.
Red D: ah Back to you, Jenny.
Jen: Well, thank you for that. That was an interesting quote, actually, Jamie. I feel like it was...
Red D: Oh, do you want to add anything?
Jen: Oh, I thought again. I feel like I knew that one, from but not from the original. um I feel like it was used by someone more recent, ah but still older history, and be like Winston Churchill.
Jen: Anyway, really interesting. My next point is, it's so, it's just so long written down. I'll try and shorten it. The
Red D: There's no need to shorten it. I want the full experience of the notes.
Jen: the the whole essay.
Red D: I haven't read it myself. So you need to give it.
Jen: Okay, and in fact, okay, focus. It's a question. It's a long question. Okay, here we go.
Red D: Oh no, I'm listening.
Jen: If Janeway were to agree to reestablish the neural link, would it be linking only the individuals that have opted in?
Red D: Yes.
Jen: Now, the long explanation for this is, I had assumed so, right?
Red D: Yes. Good question.
Jen: But then Janeway mentions during the period when she's deliberating that it would it would mean, quote, imposing a choice on thousands of people that have no voice in the decision, unquote.
Red D: Oh.
Jen: So, how do we think, wait, if it's not for opt-ins only, I don't understand how Starfleet, anyone from Starfleet could possibly be considering saying yes because that seems crazy and to go against everything Starfleet stands for.
Jen: If it were only opt-ins then I could understand there might be some deliberation. Although you would still, you know, say, oh, I don't know. um But I mean, if you're, she's actually saying, oh yes, I will consider imposing this Borg collective mind on people who have had absolutely no say.
Jen: So I don't know, what do you think?
Red D: Yes, it goes against the prime directive, I guess, in a certain... they're very um I mean, that's one thing that just pops into my head as you're talking. And yes, when she mentioned that, it's not something I considered. Like, oh, not everyone will be necessarily opting in to be part of this collective.
Jen: Hmm.
Red D: They'll be forced to opt in. They'll be forced in.
