Transcript
Zach Sheets: hello and welcome to the everything action cast the podcast week of july 27th 2026 i'm your host zach and this week we are web swinging back to 2004 and talking about spider-man 2 because we got spider-man brand new day in theaters right now which is uh seems like by all accounts neither have seen it yet because recorded this on before it comes out but reviews
Chris Prime: I'm your co-host, Chris.
Chris Prime: yeah Yeah, we chose to talk about an old Spider-Man movie instead of the new Spider-Man.
Zach Sheets: it's getting It's getting really good reviews. Apparently it's like it's you another great entry for Tom Holland. i mean I'm sure we we'll both definitely see it as soon as we can. Spider-Man 2, even over 20 years later, still one of the best Spider-Man movies.
Chris Prime: Yeah, it became like the the goat of trying to adapt this. It's... it's For a Spider-Man movie that it's just a Doc Ock adventure, it is, like, became the gold standard of a story where the villain isn't some ultimate rival.
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Chris Prime: It's just like, this is a bad guy you have to deal with, but it's not a, you're my nemesis superhero movie. You know, like, it... they they it's hard to do that. you know This is definitely a good sequel because the first movie had that I'm fighting my one of my nemesises.
Zach Sheets: yeah
Chris Prime: But this one's like Doc Ock isn't really his ultimate nemesis.
Chris Prime: But somehow they pull it off where people remember this movie for that.
Zach Sheets: Well, i think, I mean, it's like, obviously, was like Alfred Molina is amazing in this movie.
Chris Prime: True, true.
Zach Sheets: And it's like, they do such a great job of making him, like, so, like, sympathetic and kind before he turns into Doc Ock. And it's about, like, we have to we have to save him. we but Like, i'm not go I don't want to kill him. I want to, like, save him because he's, like, my hero. He's my scientific hero.
Zach Sheets: And I i guess I'll stop him from, like, like being this doing this, like, misguided attempt to create fusion energy.
Zach Sheets: and it it is And it is great that Noe Holm kind of like gave him like the like a a great resolution.
Chris Prime: Kind of. I still am a little...
Zach Sheets: Iffy about how it works.
Chris Prime: How this whole... How that connects and this connects and the whole, uh...
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Chris Prime: You know, soul transferring thing, which is complicated, but don't know. But in this premise, it is very, you know, grounded. It's... the only thing that's impossible is that no cock can get, like, a correct shot off because somehow his arms can deflect bullets, like, really easily.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, he just wrapped himself... just wrapped him around him and and he's like blocking bullets. Or when he's climbing out like a building they're just it like, he's moving too fast, we can't shoot him.
Chris Prime: Yeah, the cops in this movie don't have anything but, like, pistols, so they just never hit them.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, try to shoot a guy on top of a skyscraper with a pistol. I don't think it's... you're not gonna be able to do anything.
Chris Prime: True, true.
Zach Sheets: Even if you're like an expert marksman, you're not going to be able to him.
Chris Prime: I don't know. I feel like the Punisher would have had a chance if they had their way in this movie.
Zach Sheets: Probably. would pull like a rocket launcher or something and just blow him up. Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: Send a message for any mad scientist that doesn't have safety protocols.
Zach Sheets: But yeah, i think i think it's I think it's two years after Spider-Man is when this takes place. Because they mentioned that Uncle Ben died two years ago in this movie
Chris Prime: And I think they're still in college.
Zach Sheets: movie. Peter's in college, but then...
Chris Prime: Mary Mary Jane never went.
Zach Sheets: you Yeah, and Harry is like running...
Chris Prime: A businessman.
Zach Sheets: he took over like kind of like from where his father left off. and like He's running like special projects for Oscorp.
Chris Prime: Well, okay, so let's get into the Ops Court thing. So they didn't know that Osborn was Green Goblin, so that's established, right? But then the son is just inheriting the business, and the son was never, like, trained to be a businessman.
Zach Sheets: No. Harry here he doesn't know anything about science. He doesn't know anything about business. He was just...
Chris Prime: no He's got like a very rudimental idea of science of compared to Peter. like because he He kind of points out other nerd facts because he's Peter's nerd friend. They both were outcasts, I guess, in high school.
Zach Sheets: No, I think...
Chris Prime: That's that's like established.
Zach Sheets: Yeah. well Well, Harry needed Peter to, like like like, tutor him or, like, get him through science because he didn't know anything about science. That's why he mentions, like, Otto. He's like, this guy got me through science.
Chris Prime: That's true. But like, Peter is better at science.
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Chris Prime: It's like if you had a choice, yeah, have Peter teach you science.
Zach Sheets: Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: But I also think that Harry was selective of being Peter's friend at in high school because he didn't exactly like help him or like stand up for him elsewhere.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, when like when like Flash Thompson was like pounding him down, he was just like, you got it, Pete. You got it well I'm trying to remember, did Harry even go to like like i guess he i guess they would the same school?
Chris Prime: And then and it went
Zach Sheets: i don't
Chris Prime: to the same school, but they barely hung out in the school.
Zach Sheets: Yeah. But then but then like Norman is like kind of like a mentor to Peter. He's just like, hey, Parker, you're like...
Chris Prime: Oh, yeah, they they have Peter gets treated like a better son to from Norman, and that's what makes them kind of like rift a bit between him and Harry.
Zach Sheets: Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Prime: Because even Harry says like resentment stuff, like secondhand comments saying, oh, my dad's really in love with you because Peter is such a science nerd and the dad's a science nerd. But the dad is also like an executive, you know, like.
Zach Sheets: Yeah. and this And in this movie, he's like, well, you know, my father loved you so much, but you're not going to me who killed him? like Or like tell me who Spider-Man is so i can get like because he killed my father? like What kind of friend are you?
Chris Prime: That is true. Like, Harry does have a point. It's weird to just be like, okay, so you're hiding the guy that killed my dad? And Peter's like, well, no, it's probably to kill your dad. or Does even Peter say that to him?
Zach Sheets: he He's always just like, i don't want to talk about this right now. so Let's not talk about this.
Chris Prime: Like, for two years? For two years like that?
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Chris Prime: That's insane.
Zach Sheets: here
Chris Prime: Yeah, I would be pissed at my friend if they knew who killed my parents.
Zach Sheets: I just did. This was like, don't talk about it. Let's talk about something else. stay with something else
Chris Prime: It's like, if I remember correctly about the timeline of the first movie, Spider-Man 1 is technically a Thanksgiving movie.
Zach Sheets: Yes, because like there's a big attack at like the like the Thanksgiving parade.
Chris Prime: Right, so it's like the parade, and then they actually have Thanksgiving dinner that day, and then...
Zach Sheets: Yep.
Chris Prime: Yeah, it takes place like
Chris Prime: I guess in the beginning of Christmas?
Zach Sheets: It's like, yeah, like late late November or December. Because like when they... At the funeral at the end, or like when the cemetery ends, it's like it's obviously like very cold out, and like there's like snow on the ground.
Chris Prime: The classic s Spider-Man everything ends at a funeral scene. Or someone dies at the end.
Zach Sheets: hey
Zach Sheets: Oh, which we should mention, I love the opening credits this movie, where it's got the Alex Ross like drawings of the first movie, like it like a recap.
Chris Prime: Drawings. The recap, yep. That is really cool. I like, because that was something that bigger nerds at the time had to just look up through early internet or even magazines that the early prototype concepts where Alex Ross is like storyboarding the potential outfits in case they didn't go with the classic Spider-Man look. They went with alternate costume designs, which, you know, later on did become...
Chris Prime: real costumes in other forms. they It became like Superior Spider-Man or early Miles Morales outfits.
Zach Sheets: I'm sure they're probably and they're in the games, I think, too, probably, right?
Chris Prime: but No, they it just became them.
Zach Sheets: Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Prime: There is actually like a crazy like, okay, this is just for fun outfit that I think... forgot which one it is, but it's it's just like, this is a fantasy one. the But the Superior Spider-Man is the runner-up outfit that if they didn't go for the same Raimi costume, this would have been it.
Chris Prime: Where it's like it's almost like all black all the way to his chest with like the the like legs and then red on top.
Zach Sheets: or black More blacks. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: And then his spider web shooters are like more predominant on his wrists. I got I was a fan. I was like, but over time I was like, you know, if they didn't want to make like a connected universe and they want it like a complete clean slate, I think now it's more accepted because in the comics, it's it's different.
Chris Prime: You see different versions of the costumes now. Like there's so many other spider people and outfits that it would been fine that even in the sequel, it could have been a OK, I changed my outfit from the first.
Zach Sheets: It would have been really it it would' be really funny if they went with like that costume in this movie where he's like actually fighting Doc Ock and then he became like the superhero Spider-Man costume later where it's like literally Doc Ock in Peter's body.
Chris Prime: See, that could have been an interesting twist because they they really upped the stakes in the modern storytelling of Doc Ock, where he's brilliant, but he's also crazy where he thinks like a soul swapping brain swapping thing is like a good maneuver for him.
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Chris Prime: But. Uh. Yeah, if they ever went that direction for the sequel. But they'd establish, if that was the case, they would had to establish him early. Because it'd be weird for that to be the third movie.
Chris Prime: And even just be a, okay, so now it's just like Peter and Doc aren't fighting to the death.
Chris Prime: Almost all the fights that Spider-Man's in in these movies, like, it's always to the death.
Zach Sheets: yeah they're Like his bad guys are pulling out like giant like knives or spikes like try to impale him and kill him.
Chris Prime: I mean, honestly, a lot of the the if you think about it, these movies end with the villain dying by their own hands.
Zach Sheets: Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: Like something they did or caused or put into reach to like chain events that it just led to them being killed by it. Like if Doc Ock just didn't kidnap Mary Jane.
Chris Prime: Or dumped her off in some other part of the city. Totally fine.
Zach Sheets: Well, i feel like Doc Ock gets a... like He lucked out, really, and like for like his time against Spider-Man because Spider-Man like gives like just gives up for who knows how long. And so Doc Ock is just like a completely unopposed to whatever he wants.
Zach Sheets: like he He builds like his entire like new fusion reactor with no opposition.
Chris Prime: Yeah, it's also weird that in this world, like, they really had established that there's no other superhero or power person to, like, kind of take over this, or...
Zach Sheets: Crime was up 75% without Spider-Man.
Chris Prime: but it was just, like, simple crime. Not super crime.
Zach Sheets: No, yeah.
Chris Prime: buts Again, in this in this universe, it's implied that it's just like New York that has superheroes, maybe.
Zach Sheets: a A superhero. Spider-Man, that's it
Chris Prime: And if they do, they're always a bad guy that mysteriously dies at the end.
Zach Sheets: what also What are the cops doing, though? If Spider-Man quits and on crime goes up 75%, what are the cops doing?
Chris Prime: To be fair, like that's just like reported crime. Spider-Man probably stopped a lot of unreported crime, so now like the rate is like worse. because it's like okay well what what like Whatever patrol Spider-Man was doing throughout most of Manhattan, because in the comics, Spider-Man usually just saves Manhattan. It's it's never like the Bronx or that Long Island. you know It's like other parts of New York.
Zach Sheets: that That stat also could have been like because that was the Daily Bugle recording that could have just been like a completely like teacher James to be like 75 sounds like a good number put it up there.
Chris Prime: Actually, that would have been an interesting thing where the the like more in depth about the bugle lying about the news and then having Jameson being called out for that. But he just embellishes. He's not exactly making up new stats, I guess, because anytime that's like opinions and then you throw numbers, that's that's where like and only Jonah is known for that.
Zach Sheets: No, but like one of them is like, oh, spider Spider-Man and Doc Ock rob a bag together.
Chris Prime: That's true. You know what I mean? It's unconfirmed because Spider-Man never like stops and says, like I'm not here to do that. But I guess like why the Bugle is so sensationalized. But that really should have tarnished the paper to just be like a tabloid-only paper.
Chris Prime: And this is the era where newspapers were actually respected and people actually did pay for them.
Zach Sheets: yeah i don't I don't know if the Bugle is like a... like If people are getting that for their hard news. and they're getting they're getting it It's like... It's definitely more of like a tabloid. like
Chris Prime: But they pay good money enough for Pete take photos of the same person.
Zach Sheets: yeah
Chris Prime: Like, in different poses.
Zach Sheets: But Peter also has to have a job delivering pizzas.
Zach Sheets: Which... That like the... the the wonderfully wacky opening sequence where he has like delivered pizzas to Spider-Man. He's got that, like the impossible delivery.
Chris Prime: I hated that in the video game. The Pete's delivery missions.
Zach Sheets: Pizza time.
Chris Prime: mean not only that, but you couldn't do backflips because it ruins the pizza.
Zach Sheets: Didn't, didn't they yeah make like the 30 minutes or less like thing illegal by this time, or you couldn't like do that anymore?
Chris Prime: No. This was like after. After this, then it started going away.
Zach Sheets: Okay, because there's there's that whole thing where like like Domino's was saying that, but then their drivers were getting into accidents and stuff because they're trying theyre like like run to run through red lights to like make it to the deliveries in time.
Chris Prime: Well, that's why they got rid of the Domino's tracker.
Zach Sheets: they were like... Yeah.
Chris Prime: Cause that was the, the like age of it. And that, that happened few years after this. because I still remember the amazing Domino's deal where it's like two topping pizzas for like five bucks each. was the five for five deal or three for five, whatever it was.
Chris Prime: Great time in high school for this.
Zach Sheets: okay
Chris Prime: And, uh, Oh, I should mention that Spider-Man 2 is one of those, like, I was entering high school phase, so now I'm like an adult, and now Spider-Man's entering college phase, so like, ooh, I'm like behind. i'm
Zach Sheets: slave guy yeah you're just slightly behind Peter Parker.
Chris Prime: I'm just like...
Chris Prime: Yeah, and I'm like, oh man, my life's wacky too. When does when do I get to fight a guy named Flash Thompson? 30? 30?
Zach Sheets: though Tobey Maguire is like 30 this year.
Chris Prime: thirty
Zach Sheets: 29. He's born in 75.
Chris Prime: I think he's all like 20, 29 in this movie. mean maybe Maybe less. Maybe he's like 27.
Zach Sheets: twenty twenty nine
Chris Prime: He's 29. Okay.
Zach Sheets: he's he's born seventy five
Chris Prime: Shit. Weird to be right. But yeah. But he's fine as a good, like he looked like that though, as a high school student, like he's someone that you would find at college.
Chris Prime: And at this point in the movie, though, he's not really going to class a lot. So there's only like one montage where he's actually going to school. The rest of the time, this movie, he just sort of is never going to school.
Zach Sheets: getting shit on.
Chris Prime: Or getting shit on. Or he's ending up in like weird, bizarre situations that he's just like he who can only do is just like stare. This movie has a lot of Tobey Maguire staring at things.
Zach Sheets: here
Chris Prime: I think the first movie has that, but this one, it's like different versions of it because they up the comedy in this movie compared to the first movie.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, there's there's definitely like more like goofy Sam Raimi comedy.
Chris Prime: I'm going to skip ahead and talk about the one scene where it's just like, you can remove this and the movie still can go on. But I love that it's in it because it just shows more San Remy, like three stooges chops.
Chris Prime: It's the scene where he has to go to his landlord and it's where like Ursula like sets fire to the kitchen. It's very minor, but at this point, Tom McGuire is not talking.
Zach Sheets: Yep. okay
Chris Prime: He's just staring because he's just like, what is my life? Like you could... It's just like, you know, the these like people in this like apartment just like wacky characters. And he's just like.
Chris Prime: I'm Spider-Man, like, I don't have to take this, but I have to because I'm poor.
Zach Sheets: Yep.
Chris Prime: And Tobey Maguire has this like great thousand yard stare and just wordlessly just like, oh, and then I think the landlord just like, like closes the door on him.
Chris Prime: So he just sort like, oh, OK.
Zach Sheets: i think Is that when he steals like like the $20 that Amei gave him for his birthday? Because he's like, oh, cause always because like cause like it's rent. You have my rent? That's always what he tells Peter. And then it's like, it is well, i just got this $20. It's like, all right, that's good. Give me the rest of it soon.
Chris Prime: Maybe. And then that's when like Ursula's like, oh, hi, Pete. And then like sets fire to the kitchen.
Zach Sheets: yeah
Chris Prime: And then just Toby's just like, oh, OK.
Zach Sheets: I'm going to go to my apartment now and just stare at the wall.
Chris Prime: Yeah, it's it's a lot of like, I don't know, autistic coding where Peter, he doesn't even go to the library for entertainment. He he enjoys the like blank stare to reflect about his life's decisions.
Zach Sheets: Does he even have a TV in his apartment? only thing in his apartment is like a police scanner. has like no entertainment is in his apartment. Just like a bed and a police scanner.
Chris Prime: No. And books. Maybe books. I gotta watch his careful as apartment again. But I don't think...
Zach Sheets: and it
Chris Prime: in
Zach Sheets: And no ba it's a shared bathroom. He has to go out in the hallway and use the shared bathroom on the and the floor.
Chris Prime: Yep.
Chris Prime: And I don't think he has a sink in his room. He might have a kitchen, but...
Zach Sheets: i Maybe a sink?
Chris Prime: I don't know.
Zach Sheets: maybe
Chris Prime: It's such a super tenement building that is...
Zach Sheets: Yep.
Chris Prime: that i don't know how this landlord is able to afford... i think like a Manhattan apartment? I mean, it's a slum, but I mean, it just needs a shitload of paint.
Zach Sheets: Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: And that part that that building now is probably more expensive to live in than before.
Zach Sheets: If it's rent controlled, maybe that'd be a good apartment to get.
Chris Prime: That kind of makes sense.
Zach Sheets: Or be in.
Chris Prime: Yeah.
Zach Sheets: or be in
Chris Prime: I also confuse the landlord with like the scene from Holes where like the land the the guy's trying to sell like the daughter for a pig.
Zach Sheets: o
Chris Prime: Because around that same time where I think Coles came out like two or three years later after Spider-Man 2.
Chris Prime: two And it's like the same thing where like the dad sort of like this immigrant guy who is like very cheap and money hungry. Then he has like a hot daughter that is loving but just sort of stuck in the like oh I can't wait to leave I don't know how.
Chris Prime: because like Is Ursula also a college age? I have no idea about her.
Zach Sheets: I have no idea. No.
Chris Prime: All she does is know is to live in that apartment.
Zach Sheets: oh
Chris Prime: She doesn't have a job, right? and Her job is just cooking.
Zach Sheets: Just make Peter like desserts.
Chris Prime: like I would have loved to know more about Ursula to make her actually be an option for Peter because people over the years have been like, Peter messed You should have just dated Ursula.
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Chris Prime: And, you know, she was kind.
Zach Sheets: i I think i did they probably keep they probably came up after three when like Mary Jane was like kind of like was like not being the best anymore. It's like, I'm going dump you for like one one bad thing you did or like one kind of like questionable thing you did at a press conference.
Chris Prime: Harry.
Chris Prime: That wasn't even personal. It just happened to be, you know, an act.
Zach Sheets: It was like spur of the moment, like people like forced them to do that. Yeah.
Chris Prime: But you know what's weird if you think about that that we've jumped to the third movie? Mary Jane's an actress. She kisses people. She pretends to be in relationships. Peter does this to save people from like horrific things that no normal person could do.
Chris Prime: She's mad at him.
Chris Prime: How dare that person cave to peer pressure and kiss you?
Chris Prime: but yeah now I was on Team Ursula. I was like, oh man.
Zach Sheets: i mean it's also like like possibly like Betty Brant too. like was this Banks is also seems like...
Chris Prime: I mean, that in the comic was was the like the natural one where it was kind of up in the air of like how old she was compared to Peter.
Zach Sheets: kind of like into peter yeah
Chris Prime: But I think in this movie, like Elizabeth Banks might have been younger.
Chris Prime: But
Zach Sheets: which speaking of like there's there's so many like of random like famous people there's in like one scene where they they' like i like they weren't famous yet but then they were gonna be like a couple years later Like, Daniel Dae Kim is, like, Otto's, like, assistant.
Chris Prime: Mm-hmm.
Zach Sheets: And then, like, like Emily Deschanel, like, Bones is, like, the receptionist at the beginning when they get the pizza delivery.
Chris Prime: Just some dude.
Chris Prime: Yeah, that this is our breakout
Zach Sheets: Like, Joel McHale is the banker.
Chris Prime: he's been on, he was on soup around this point.
Zach Sheets: i think I think he was in the soup because I remember... i think there was a joke on the soup of him like talking about his like big role in Spider-Man. He shows the entirety of it on the soup. it's like I'm in that one scene!
Chris Prime: Did Joe McHale do stand-up or something? He just sort of was on soup and then then got into acting.
Zach Sheets: yeah i don't Yeah, I don't know. i mean Maybe he was like in like one of those... like like improv groups or something?
Chris Prime: Yeah, i feel like he was an improv actor and then they gave him the soup and he just knew the right people. Because there was a point, ever see young Joe McHale where like before his hair transplant?
Zach Sheets: i don't Maybe, yeah. I'd have to look it up.
Chris Prime: Yeah, man, that he's like pieced together. It's not a, okay, he's this cool guy. It's like, no, no, no. In this movie, I think he still has his hair, but it's like thinning.
Chris Prime: So I think after this, he got the like Jeff Winger haircut.
Zach Sheets: Oh yeah, I've seen like an early picture. He's in like a Hershey's commercial or something. He's got like longer hair.
Chris Prime: But then like it starts thinning out and then I think his agent was just like, get a hair transplant.
Chris Prime: Hey man, Age Cash is up to all of us. I get it.
Zach Sheets: Yep.
Chris Prime: But it's just bizarre to see him in this one. and It's like proto Jeff Winger character, but he's not like, he's not a charming douche. He's just a douche.
Zach Sheets: and Probably the best cameo is Danelle Rawlings from like Trello Show and The Wire. Like being the guy that yells like, he stole that guy's pizzas.
Zach Sheets: Spider-Man stole that guy's pizzas.
Chris Prime: When does that happen again?
Zach Sheets: Like in the in the the very beginning when like when when like Peter gives up on his scooter and he's like, i I'm just going to turn to Spider-Man and going to turn to Spider-Man and steal his pizzas.
Chris Prime: Okay.
Zach Sheets: And then he comes he comes into that building from...
Chris Prime: He does a Superman like.
Zach Sheets: from the Janner's closet, which there's like no way he could have gotten in there. Like he's like, comes out. He's like, Hey, I'm i'm the pizza delivery guy. i Like I was on the roof, I guess.
Chris Prime: Well, he does the, like, it's pizza time.
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Chris Prime: And I think because the delay, it adds that, what, one minute over?
Zach Sheets: he He's late. They're, they're, they're free. She doesn't have to pay. i mean They should always have to pay for them. And then he has to leave out like he's like he's gonna leave through the Jader's closet again. He's like elevator.
Zach Sheets: He's like oh right. Yeah. Elevator. Normal people don't go out the Jader's closet and like leave the building.
Zach Sheets: And then he then he gets fired.
Chris Prime: Okay, so... It's weird that this pizzeria prides itself on its 30 minutes or less, but...
Zach Sheets: i mean I think it's 29 minutes or less. It's like one one minute but better than like Domino's or something.
Chris Prime: I know. I just i feel like what you would do in that kind of situation is delay taking the order, and then when they're halfway there, throw on the like, okay, now's the 30 minutes or less.
Chris Prime: You know? like like Oh, it'll be like an LL 15 minutes. And then, okay. Then after that, it's like, add the countdown.
Zach Sheets: Well, Peter's already appears late, and then the order like order came in like a while ago, so it's like they're already waiting for the pizza, and and it's like you have eight like eight minutes to get the delivery's pizzas.
Chris Prime: Why would the guy take the order with this like guarantee that's guaranteed to screw over the one delivery guy that they have? Or maybe they have multiple delivery guys. I don't know.
Zach Sheets: I think they mentioned another guy, but he got like deported or something. and That's the joke. It's like, oh, yeah yeah, he got deported. like you're You're the only person left, Peter.
Chris Prime: But then now he has no delivery guys.
Zach Sheets: Yep.
Zach Sheets: but That's just this like one that just one of the many things that like is like just like dumping on Peter. like he like He's fired from his job. He's late for class. He never is able to get to class. He's constantly Spider-Man. He can't be with Mary Jane because it's too dangerous for her. like He has to like hide his feelings.
Zach Sheets: Aunt May's getting infected.
Zach Sheets: yeah he's in his shitty apartment. it's just like this like Everything is just not going well for Peter.
Chris Prime: It's all because, like, honestly, it's even time management. It's just, like, different lifestyles.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, it's just like he sees like he's too dedicated to being Spider-Man, so like that's like interfering with like Peter Parker's life.
Chris Prime: Well, being Spider-Man is, like, a full-time job in this universe compared to the comics, where I guess, like, he still does things, but he's sort of found a balance as he ages, and, you know, he doesn't go into school.
Chris Prime: the the big thing that they kind of lean on in this is that Spider-Man, it's like, it's super stressful for Spider-Man, and later on, it's like, okay, it's thes boiling point is like some physical manifestation.
Zach Sheets: Well, he gets he gets his web block that he mentions in, like, Noi Home.
Chris Prime: Right, but it's like, this the stress is finally getting to him, and so then it's like,
Zach Sheets: Which he calls that, like... Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: I don't think he gets sick to walls anymore from that and and no no spider power. So his so his whole spider power DNA thing relies on emotions.
Zach Sheets: Well, I think the first thing is like his web shooters, like his an organic web doesn't work. Like he can't shoot webs anymore. And then we like like stops for like a second. Like Rayway needs it. So he falls or like when he's fighting Doc Ock, like he can't shoot like the webs at him. And then eventual yeah like he's like really at like it the the edge of like everything's going horribly wrong. Then it's like he can't see the walls. He like is getting vertigo on top of buildings. Like he has to put his glasses back because can't see.
Chris Prime: And during those brief moments, he's happy.
Zach Sheets: Yes.
Chris Prime: Or like, he's not Spider-Man, he's just a normal guy, and he's like, this is great.
Zach Sheets: it's
Zach Sheets: when When he finally is like Spider-Man no more.
Chris Prime: Yep.
Zach Sheets: and we get we had to We get the classic shot. That's from like the John Romita senior like image of the the suit in the garbage can.
Zach Sheets: And then it's like rain drops fall on my head and Peter's just like, yeah, life's great now. I'm not Spider-Man.
Zach Sheets: i made it to like Mary Jane's play. I'm acing school.
Chris Prime: Yeah, he's trying to be like a good friend to Mary Jane, but she isn't exactly a good friend to him.
Chris Prime: She's just like, okay, well, you want to be there for me? Come to my play. My friends would... Harry's come to my play a lot, but it's like, yeah, you dated Harry, though.
Chris Prime: Don't forget, we're still coming off the heels of two years prior while they graduate high school. That summer? Oh, no, no, wait. It's like...
Chris Prime: their' june Peter's a junior in college now. Because they entered college in the first movie still.
Zach Sheets: Well, they definitely graduated high school. Because that was like that was like pretty pretty early in the movie, yeah.
Chris Prime: The beginning. But then by the time the fall rolls around, Peter's in college.
Chris Prime: So it's here.
Zach Sheets: two years after that, yeah. so Yeah.
Chris Prime: Because like that's the point The point I'm saying is, like, after their freshman year of college, let's just say, Mary Jane kissed Peter at the end of that fall or the beginning of winter and just like, I love you. And and he's like, nah, we're just friends.
Chris Prime: And then even from now, it's like, okay, well, any closer than you're not friends. And she's just like, why aren't you like my boyfriend? I understand. Why can't like you treat me like your boyfriend, treat me like your girlfriend but like not actually be like my boyfriend?
Chris Prime: Come to my shows. Come come support me. and He's like, i have no money. like I lost my job. I'm like, do so much.
Zach Sheets: Well, he he tries, but he's foiled by the like the other villain in the movie, which is Bruce Campbell's like snooty like usher, who like doesn' doesn't let him in.
Chris Prime: True. True. But in general, it's like, you know Mary Jane, he's like the poor friend.
Chris Prime: You know, it's like,
Zach Sheets: Yeah, how did how like hopefully Mary Jane gave him a ticket, because how did he afford like a Broadway, like a like a New York Broadway play like ticket?
Chris Prime: Off-Broadway play.
Zach Sheets: If he can't even afford rent for his apartment.
Chris Prime: I don't know.
Zach Sheets: And he's like he's not getting paid to the Daily but Bugle, because you like when he gets paid for like his like the first picture, like it's like he goes to Betty, and Betty's like, oh, i I gave you an advance last time, Peter, so that you actually get OS money.
Chris Prime: Yeah, it's like you still owe us another round of pitchers, so then you'll get money.
Zach Sheets: Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: No, financially, it is a terrible thing to be stuck in. And it's not like he can turn to anyone else. He's got a rich friend that doesn't like it's still mad about him keeping the secret of Harry's death.
Chris Prime: I mean, of one of his death. If anything, he should be like, hey, give me like 10 grand and I'll will tell you who Spider-Man is. And then just be like, Spider-Man was a guy.
Zach Sheets: yeah
Chris Prime: like Just like make up a name. Like, I don't.
Zach Sheets: i the gut i think The guy that like car like that killed but Uncle
Chris Prime: Yeah, yeah. That guy knew who Spider-Man was. Just give him a dead end. I get it. Peter wants to be like the noble friend, but then his like plan wasn't even to do the thing where he should dress up like Spider-Man and then confront Harry.
Chris Prime: Be like, listen, I found your dad like this. yeah And it didn't seem like Peter's guilt about hair like Harry dying haunted him.
Chris Prime: Right? I mean, Norman, right?
Zach Sheets: Norman. Yeah.
Chris Prime: he only gets, he only feels sad about Norman's death is when Harry reminds him. And that's why it's like Hey, that's why we aren't close as much anymore. Like that's why we're not roommates anymore.
Zach Sheets: There's also the the craziest thing that like like Harry's butler, a houseman, like apparently like knew... He knows like that Spider-Man didn't kill... like like He knew Norman was the Green Goblin, knew like like he got killed by his glider, but he doesn't tell Harry until like the third movie. He's like, oh, you know by the way, yeah your dad wasn't killed by Spider-Man. He got stabbed by a skull glider.
Chris Prime: Yeah, that is the worst part about this, that trilogy too, is that the butler, i think that was such a shoe win where it's like, yeah, I knew i just didn't say anything.
Zach Sheets: i swear I just want you to wallow in like your grief-fueled revenge until to like the the breaking point.
Zach Sheets: Until you like got yourself scarred for like your face scarred for a bomb. And injected yourself with Green Goblin goo or whatever it was.
Chris Prime: Yeah, the butler's the worst. He's secretly like the villain of all the three movies.
Zach Sheets: I do think that this movie does a great job of like kind of like incorporating Harry into like the villain plot, though, because like he's got access to the tritium that Otto needs to recreate his experiments. And then Harry's like, well, I'll give it to you if you if you capture Spider-Man for me. So that kind of like fuels the conflict between Doc Ock and Spider-Man. i'm like, oh, I've got to fight Spider-Man to like so I can get this tritium.
Chris Prime: Well, it's because Harry can't do anything besides throw money things money at things, but even then, Harry's supposed to be like financially ruined from the failed experiment of the like showcase of Tritium.
Zach Sheets: Yeah. Which should talk about that too. Like, the one thing I really noticed that this part, like this time watching is like, why, why did Otto build his like, like rig, like it's fusion generator rate in like his apartment, his own apartment.
Chris Prime: Wait, that's his house?
Zach Sheets: I feel it is. Cause like here Harry goes there and like Harry and Peter go there. Like it's like, then they just like hang out like in like the kitchen So it's if it's not their if it's not their apartment, it's just like some random other building.
Zach Sheets: But wouldn't you think that would be in like a... need to be like a highly secured lab, like an underground bunker.
Chris Prime: where else
Zach Sheets: It's like no wonder it went bad where it started sucking in everything in the apartment because it's like this like metal like old New York apartment that can't sustain literal sun being built and inside of it.
Zach Sheets: And was it i tried was it magnetic or was it just like sucking in everything? Because I feel like it's magnetic. It's like pulling in everything that's metal. like the Like the fusion reaction.
Chris Prime: and I don't know what the thing was doing where it's like non-contained fusion where there's no barrier. It was just like an open black hole that they're just like fusing.
Chris Prime: Usually a fusion thing happens in a collider. So it's just like two atoms being bombarded and then they fuse into one. That's the point about fusion. Or hell, I think about the saint where that taught me about cold fusion where it was a tube that generated heat from like, uh, or like it generated energy without heat that needed like fuel to burn itself because the thing about cold fusion, which is like physically impossible or at least, yeah, self-sustaining.
Zach Sheets: Yep. Yep.
Zach Sheets: It self-sustains itself.
Chris Prime: So like, how do you, how do you keep it cold? How do you, or how do you even keep fusion hot? It's like, well, you need like, you know, some waste or it needs fuel. So when a true fused energy source that can just release all this energy, it's like, okay, so you need to transfer energy to something. So it just gives energy without taking energy.
Zach Sheets: how were they get it?
Chris Prime: But then it's like, but here's the thing So, the mishtick the contraption that that like started it is not strong enough to contain it? Or is it that like you don't have enough power to push into the tritium to then have it be a sun?
Chris Prime: Like... So even if they this worked, the amount of energy it needs to fuse inside is probably way more for the you know the upfront costs. So it's not a good business in that, you know, because it needed like a city power grid to turn that fusion core on, barely on, because it never works.
Zach Sheets: And then, yeah, then it's got some sort of containment feel, but then Adon needs like his like the arms to like heat like hold it like hold in like a few... like Basically, solar flores start bursting out of it.
Zach Sheets: You need like the arms to kind of hold them in place. Yeah.
Chris Prime: but Yeah, it's like he's he's manually fusing them. i don' he's It's like he's holding the core...
Zach Sheets: yeah he's made that it's like it's like a like He's putting his finger in like a dam, but a dam is like a son
Chris Prime: Yeah, it's a crazy like, okay, so it's it's so let's say you do that, right?
Zach Sheets: and then it's
Chris Prime: Let's say his his tentacles are meant to be like long range tongs, basically like forcing it to forcing two elements to be stable or forcing the core to be stable.
Chris Prime: What does it say that you pull your arm back and now that's just like radiated and now you just walk around like poop on a stick kind of things of just like now your arms, wherever it touches, it's like poison.
Zach Sheets: Yeah. And how do you... how do you like if Let's say it let's say it like worked perfectly. like He had like a working fusion sun in his containment array.
Zach Sheets: how do you How do you move that like to like where you're actually going use it? like how you going to transfer that to... like power building or something.
Chris Prime: I think it's the arms again.
Zach Sheets: they
Chris Prime: It's the only thing where the...
Zach Sheets: lift Just lift it up.
Chris Prime: I think, yeah, the arms have to carry it.
Zach Sheets: Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: It's like a cargo device. But then it's like, if the arms could contain it, why not build the containment field out of whatever the arms are made out of?
Zach Sheets: o
Chris Prime: And the arms don't need crazy power.
Chris Prime: you know what i mean? It's like... that's That's why, the reason why it's an open core is so that the arms could go touch it. That's like the only reason. But then...
Zach Sheets: To like like to like move around it so like it's like, oh, there's a thing that burst out of it. Put put the tentacle there so it holds it in place.
Chris Prime: right. Which is an insane idea of of just one person that needs robotic arms that...
Chris Prime: use of this spinal cord for fast response and then
Zach Sheets: And the arms also have AI in them, and so you need like an inhibitor chip. because because you don't have that, they'll take over your mind and like start controlling you.
Chris Prime: Or the arms are just like, instead of doing more work, because how does the AI chip want other things? Like, I don't understand how the arms are just like scheming. like If anything, they either desire to be, let's well, they do desire to build more tritium cores. They're like, okay, we love building this. This is our purpose in life.
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Chris Prime: But the the arms also, they hate Spider-Man. you like they just
Zach Sheets: yeah he
Chris Prime: they They somehow learned how to hate him.
Zach Sheets: maybe Maybe it's just like like Otto's fueling the arms and arms are fueling him. Because Otto blames Spider-Man for like ruining the experiment.
Chris Prime: Oh, it's like got feedback.
Zach Sheets: Because Spider-Man has to swing in and pull the like the giant plugs out of the wall to like destroy like the the reaction.
Zach Sheets: And then Otto's wife also gets killed by a giant piece of glass, which is like pretty awesome shot where just like you see like her face in the glass and then it hits her.
Zach Sheets: there's a lot of There's a lot of mirror. I don't know if you've noticed that, Chris. like There's a lot of like mirror imagery, like reflections. Sunglasses, and it's like you pull back, and it's like, oh so that was a reflection of of some of the sunglasses, or like mirrors, or windows, or...
Chris Prime: Oh, no, it upped the ante because Spider-Man does that in the first movie, too. You see, like, what he's seeing and then the, like, you know, what he's facing.
Zach Sheets: Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: That happened, The famous one is when Spider-Man's looking at Mary Jane being dropped and the trolley full of kids being dropped. It's like...
Zach Sheets: And it's like one in each eye
Chris Prime: So they went, let's add way more of that effect where everything in this universe that's reflective is gonna be, like, plot devices.
Zach Sheets: Yep.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, some person's can appear in like a reflection.
Chris Prime: If it's shiny enough or the lighting hits it perfectly so you see like everyone's detail, you're it's going to be inserted for dramatic flair. And you know what? I don't mind that.
Chris Prime: Because this was also before the J.J. Abrams lens flare. Because is what got like replaced.
Zach Sheets: Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: you know
Chris Prime: So I don't mind the fact that every reflective surface is like a character shot that if you freeze would look like a cool poster.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, just just Sam Raimi just like doing like some stylish stuff.
Chris Prime: Yeah, i mean, he's got that money in this one, and this one paid off because it's like a comic book, you know? It's like, this how you show all the characters together without, or like, you know, a few characters together without doing quick cuts or comic book style, like, cutaways, where it's like, this person from this perspective, and this person this perspective, all in the same frame.
Zach Sheets: Mm-hmm.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, go like full Ang Lee Hulk.
Chris Prime: Yeah, which took that, I think that came out a year after this, and it's like, okay. Don't you miss that reflective surface now?
Zach Sheets: Yep.
Chris Prime: Don't you wish you'd go back to that, like, Hulk? But, like, yeah, that movie, there's not enough glass. They all fought outside in the desert. Or, like, trees.
Zach Sheets: But I was like, it's like it's an actual comic book. We're using panels.
Chris Prime: Just, I wish it wasn't done so weirdly.
Chris Prime: Ang Lee, too, of all people.
Zach Sheets: Yep.
Chris Prime: Anyway,
Zach Sheets: i was just just like The most Sam Raimi sequence, though, is like definitely like the they like the surgery scene, where like don't like they're trying to remove the the arms, but they just like go nuts and start killing all the doctors.
Chris Prime: surgery.
Chris Prime: You see what I mean? Like, like, did Otto do that on his own or his arms are just now activated and are in kill mode?
Zach Sheets: i feel like I feel like that was like a self-defense thing from the arms. of like oh They're trying to remove us our body. terrorists support like remove us from like like they're our our body like we have to stop them.
Chris Prime: And then the the the arms have, I guess, cameras, so that that's how he's able to perceive everything.
Zach Sheets: cameras. you
Zach Sheets: Yeah, because they're like fused into his spinal column and like his neck like like because there's pins that go into like his spinal column when he puts it on.
Chris Prime: So do you know the original origin of Doc Ock?
Zach Sheets: like is why he has like why he's like using the arms.
Chris Prime: Okay, so, obviously don't.
Zach Sheets: don yeah go go Yeah, go ahead.
Chris Prime: Okay, so, in the original comic, Doc Ock was working with radioactive items, so the concept that he needed at the arms to handle nuclear waste and other kind of dangerous chemicals, and that he had to, like, manipulate his chest.
Chris Prime: Like, he wore this brace on his so on his stomach, and then he had a like, kind of control it with his hands. Then i think like something, some reaction happens and it blows up.
Chris Prime: And then because of that, the thing that he wore is fused to him. And then his brainwaves from the radiation like or allow him to control the arm.
Zach Sheets: Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: So then it's like, He's just like getting revenge. But I think it's revenge because like someone tampered with the thing or he just goes, OK, well, I still want to do cool science, but they all think I'm a crazy person now.
Chris Prime: So he's like he was misunderstood. It's it's further expanded more because like later on, Doc Ock is like, OK, well, got to hire like hench people to like steal shit while I do other science stuff because Ock needs like a crew.
Chris Prime: deck I don't know how that, just in this world full of henchmen that's just like working for jobs, like I get that. But yeah, but that's kind of what it is. This, they could have done hench people, but they really went with like more of a Frankenstein movie where Doc Ock is both the the creator and monster.
Zach Sheets: Yes.
Chris Prime: So that gets more poignant right after this surgical scene where he murders everyone, but he's not like freaked out. He's like, okay, well, that happened. And then, he excites,
Zach Sheets: well he he't he he He doesn't know. He does a a classic like movie like, No!
Chris Prime: Yes, yes. But that point he's like, oh, well i got to 100% lean into it. Well, because then he leaves the hospital and then it's like they made it seem like it's a kaiju coming out of the hospital, but it is just him freaking out.
Zach Sheets: a
Chris Prime: But you murdered a whole room and it's like, all right, well. I got to be inconspicuous. Oh, no, a time to push everybody around.
Zach Sheets: but but like Luckily, I found this abandoned, like, was it like a harbor, like, warehouse? That, like...
Chris Prime: Yeah, it's like a pure...
Zach Sheets: It's...
Chris Prime: something.
Zach Sheets: it's heck Half sinking. It's already it's already sinking into the into like the but the ocean or the bay or whatever it is. And then he's like, oh, this the perfect spot to like rebuild my machine. and even more derelict and unsafe location than my like apartment or like home lab.
Zach Sheets: With even more metal around it.
Chris Prime: Yeah, it's like, it's like your nice posh Manhattan apartment lab wasn't the best.
Zach Sheets: and then
Chris Prime: And now it's like, okay, let me move my, uh, my next secret lab into a sinking derelict dock in Manhattan.
Zach Sheets: that you're going build a giant metal, like, rig on.
Chris Prime: Which, okay, to be fair,
Zach Sheets: If i weigh I weighed, like, a ton of, like, a lot.
Chris Prime: it it ton of ton of metal that is sinking that like structure further. But... Okay, but in some weird way, it did lead to the point where you could drown the core to stabilize it compared to whatever Spider-Man did earlier where it would just unplug the power.
Zach Sheets: Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: Because Because that's how Spider-Man, how he like defeated the core the first time was just cutting its power source.
Zach Sheets: Well,
Chris Prime: And then I don't know why that's not, it's like too far. It's I think later in the movie, it's like the next version is too powerful. So that that cutting it power is not going to do it.
Zach Sheets: I think Agato says it's self it's self-sustaining now, so like you can't like you can't stop it. li at The big one.
Chris Prime: Oh, so the fusion happened. It's like,
Zach Sheets: but Yeah, the fusion worked, but it's it's just too big. like It's going to start sucking in like half of New York.
Chris Prime: Oh, so again, it was like it never worked. Whatever Doc Ock had up his arms, it just like always was a massive like energy tornado that kind of like, you know, like his his his whole efforts was designed to make this thing.
Zach Sheets: yes
Chris Prime: And now it's like going to destroy everybody. But everyone can get free fusion in two states away.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, it's kind of it's kind of like a black hole. like it's just it's just like It's like sucking everything in around it.
Zach Sheets: but then it But then it does, it also seems like it's it's like mostly sucking in like metal things. So it's like a magnet. Because I think don't if she says like, oh, these arms are impervious to heat and but magnetism.
Chris Prime: oh
Zach Sheets: so there So I think there is like a like mag magnetic equality to like the fusion reaction.
Chris Prime: Oh.
Chris Prime: Is it? Because I feel like there's a scene where Mary Jane almost gets sucked into it.
Zach Sheets: But she has chains around her feet. That's why she's getting like pulled toward it.
Chris Prime: I miss that detail.
Chris Prime: Okay. So, let's go back. How did Doc Ock's wife die if the glass, like, was flying at her from the speed of the hole?
Zach Sheets: Yeah, because I think there was it was like a skylight, and it but it was like metal beams like in between the windows. So those that pulled in, and then it's like the glass shattered.
Chris Prime: I see.
Zach Sheets: And it kind of like fell on her, and it was like a giant jagged piece of glass.
Chris Prime: Yeah, it that makes sense then. i thought it was just one of those like generic black holes where it's just, if it isn't tied down, it's just going in.
Zach Sheets: No, yeah, I think it's definitely, because people's jewelry is getting pulled toward it, and it's loose chain. All these metal things are getting pulled into it, but people getting pulled into it unless they have a metal thing on them.
Zach Sheets: Which is why which why like the choice of... going to go to this like abandoned pier harbor warehouse that's like just full of metal. It's all metal, basically, and then build my giant magnetic fusion reaction core here.
Chris Prime: Yeah, this is what happens when you let the arms do the talking.
Zach Sheets: is
Zach Sheets: Which he also convinced him to, we need money, so let's go rob a bank.
Chris Prime: And the arms are like, okay, listen, we watched a lot of, like, heist movies as a kid. We're not gonna be slick. We're just gonna run in and just take...
Zach Sheets: wear Wear a trench coat. Wear a t trench coat and a hat so like no one notices you, even though you have giant metal arms coming out of your body. And then rip the safe off the wall.
Chris Prime: And hopefully they don't have, you know, guard like multiple guards with like machine guns. But also in this universe, you have but the Green Goblin in New York and that was two years ago. They would be on alert, but I guess because the Green Goblin never stole banks.
Chris Prime: It's like, OK, well, we'd have to worry about supervillains doing. Like classic. Gangster stuff.
Zach Sheets: I mean, he blew he blew up like a bunch of high-profile
Chris Prime: exact He did.
Zach Sheets: York execs and government people, maybe.
Chris Prime: So like, wouldn't all the people in this universe be like really careful and cautious about anything? Because like anyone that's like crazy could just come over and do that again, throw a pumpkin bomb at you.
Zach Sheets: Yeah. like yeah i guess there hasn't been a supervillain since, for two years, since Green Goblin.
Zach Sheets: But yeah but yeah yeah yeah, I feel like the police would like have like, develop some work like youre like Daredevil, like the anti-vigilante task force or something or like the anti-supervillain task force. Just like...
Chris Prime: Or just like any any villain that's like already kind of got like enough criteria where it's like, okay, lethal force. Because the villains are't going to pull their punches.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, we need like special weapons. We need like lasers. we like supposed We need something to fight supervillains.
Chris Prime: Like if anything, in a weird way, this would have been the Tony Stark. If Tony Stark really was leaning back in the industry thing where, okay, hey. In order to fight these super people, we need super weapons. So any person can become a superhero. like Level the playing field.
Zach Sheets: Uh-huh.
Chris Prime: But honestly, like the the guy that's got extra arms and the arms aren't magnetic...
Chris Prime: Not bad. you know He wasn't completely like unstoppable.
Chris Prime: But he's only been a villain for a week? Maybe a month? maybe like a month
Zach Sheets: Well, yeah, however long Peter takes a break from being Spider-Man, and I guess like he's like, I would assume like robbing more banks or like stealing like materials to build his fusion reactor.
Zach Sheets: but then But then, yeah, he's trading in from Perry, so they make their deal. And then we got to talk about the subway scene, which is probably the most iconic scene of this movie.
Chris Prime: Agreed.
Zach Sheets: we We had like the the awesome fight on the subway car, and then it's the the big like Spider-Man hero moment where i he breaks the like speed controller on the subway train, so it's out of control, there's no way to stop it. And then it's heading toward a track that's not finished, or it's just at the end of the line.
Zach Sheets: But like was the train going to end up there anyway? Like...
Chris Prime: I think what happens in that line, it reverses. So then it...
Zach Sheets: Okay, that makes sense, yeah.
Chris Prime: But...
Zach Sheets: it'll get to the last station and then like go go back.
Chris Prime: Yeah, it's one of those weird lines, but... That's not a real train line in Manhattan. That's a train line that would happen in... Queens.
Chris Prime: But they filmed that whole sequence partly in Chicago, because it's got, like, enough of that. That when I went to Chicago, they were, like, bragging that certain shots were in Spider-Man 2.
Zach Sheets: Mm-hmm.
Zach Sheets: But then, yeah, peter so Peter has to figure out how to stop the train, and he does, like, the, uh, like, he throws out the webs, like, the buildings, and, like, it's, like, holding it a place. And we get some some very interesting Tobey Maguire faces this scene.
Zach Sheets: Like, a lot of crazy straining, like, they all they've they've all become, like, memes now, but, like, just, like, the Tobey Maguire's just,
Chris Prime: You ever watch the video where it's like realistic of what would happen during that and it like rips his arms off?
Zach Sheets: his arms ripped off, yeah.
Zach Sheets: but yeah he But yeah, he managed to stop it, and but hed like he's like, it's like totally like wears himself out, and then we get like all the people pulling him into the subway car, Jesus-like.
Chris Prime: very touching moment. And i remember watching this as a kid and thinking, like, this is peak superhero. He revealed his face. It's like, now he's got to kill them all.
Zach Sheets: Yep. You get that guy, like the one line where he's just like, he's he's just a kid, no older than my son.
Chris Prime: Yeah, there's a lot of, like, people that, they're amazed and they really keep that secret that this guy is Peter Parker. and No one had, like, you know, smartphones, so You know?
Zach Sheets: Including Joey Diaz and Phil Lamar. They're on the train.
Chris Prime: Yeah, Phil Amaro is, like, right up front. He, like, got right next to the conductor booth.
Zach Sheets: Yep. No lines, but he's he's hanging out there.
Chris Prime: It's always cool to see him in that shot.
Zach Sheets: And then Otto comes back because he has to Peter bring him to Harry. Everyone's just like, you want him to go through me? It's like the New York thing, and then Otto just like...
Zach Sheets: easily just, like pushes them all away and, like, takes Peter. like, well, so much for New York people. They're no match against an octopus man.
Chris Prime: I still give him credit for trying. Everyone in New York just stood up and was like, unite it.
Zach Sheets: Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Prime: It's a very wholesome thing where all the people like... We'll stand for Spider-Man, but we would never say this in the newspaper or whatever. You know, it's like...
Zach Sheets: They tried to do it in, I think it was the first Amazing Spider-Man with the cranes.
Chris Prime: Oh, everyone throws something at... but Like the... like they They...
Zach Sheets: They throw stuff at the...
Chris Prime: No, throwing stuff at the... people was the Green Goblin. That's when the people at the bridge were throwing stuff at Green Goblin.
Zach Sheets: Yeah. In Amazing Spider-Man, like, I was like, alright, we got you, Spider-Man.
Chris Prime: All the construction crew.
Zach Sheets: You guys will have cranes on path so you can go Which, not not not as good. i' Not quite as good as the scene.
Chris Prime: not as like heroic. It just made it easier to give Spider-Man a shortcut because it's just... no one's like he's not He doesn't have to wait for traffic while swinging.
Zach Sheets: But then Tom Holland got like, I think, almost as good scene with like the fairy in like, was it Homecoming? He has to hold like the fairy together.
Chris Prime: Uh, it's closer to this, yes. And the holding the two things together is like a new Spider-Man feat of strength.
Chris Prime: I guess that's what it is. It's like feats of strength. This one's like a, can he stop a train with his body? Yes, he can. and He's that strong. Amazing Spider-Man. Can Spider-Man inspire like a shortcut?
Chris Prime: Yes, he can.
Zach Sheets: trying remember Tom Holland ever got, like, if that Spider-Man got, like, a, like, New York is, like, behind him moment. i know't Like, one guy just was like, yeah, Spider-Man! But, like... Others, there' like, a you know, like, abos like we're werere but but behind you, Spider-Man. Like, we'll fight with you or protect you or whatever.
Zach Sheets: it's just It's just, like, his, like, classmates, but where but the it's basically just, like, MJ and, uh...
Zach Sheets: why I'm like a dad yeah this is just like those two that's it
Chris Prime: Like Ned?
Zach Sheets: I think that like the fairy people are like oh thanks Spider-Man but they don't really like they're like really behind him or anything
Chris Prime: Yeah, nah.
Zach Sheets: and I do like when Otto brings like Peter to Harry and then like like it's like he's about to stand with a knife and Peter just gets easily gets up and breaks the like barbed wire that's holding him in place. It's like, then they convince Harry to tell him where Otto went because Mary Jane got kidnapped again.
Chris Prime: Well, is it a Spider-Man movie? Mary Jane's gonna get involved somehow.
Zach Sheets: Especially the Sam Raimi ones. She's going to get kidnapped.
Zach Sheets: Which that that scene they see where the out of takes her is is a pretty awesome one too. like With the the car flying into like the cafe.
Chris Prime: Which, people have debated where it's like, he didn't know that he would dodge that. He threw a car at what he thought were two regular people.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, he he needed he needed to ask Peter where Spider-Man is. like He needed information from him. like, alright, I'm to throw of this car at him. and he And I don't know i like i don't know he's Spider-Man.
Zach Sheets: I just know he's like a cameraman. He's like a photographer. think
Chris Prime: See, unless Ox saw his face from the train incident, but he didn't.
Zach Sheets: that was before. the like is like he he kid up he that Mary like, Like tell tell your friend to meet me at the like like here like or else i'll kill the girl
Chris Prime: wow. So he really just threw a car at what he thought were two regular people then.
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Zach Sheets: It's like, luckily, Peter Parker has great reflexes. They get out of the way of a car that he's sitting with his back to the window of.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, cool cool really cool slow-mo spider sense. You get like this like his you like really see that visually, and then it's like spinning slow-mo like spin on the on the car.
Zach Sheets: Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: Which again could have been horrible
Zach Sheets: yeah and then they just And then it's like, yeah, they had the the big final fight at the Harbor Warehouse, which...
Zach Sheets: i do I do like that, like, you know, kind of auto like Otto, like, kind of gets a little bit of redemption where it's just like, all right, I'm not going to die as, like, a monster. i I'm going to, like, save everyone by, like, sacrificing myself and, like, destroying my my my dream project.
Chris Prime: Well, I mean, once he comes to his senses and what he's done and what his wife's dead and all that, and it's like, okay, don't want to be a monster.
Zach Sheets: Which... we but peter
Zach Sheets: Well, it also takes him getting like electrocuted. like He gets electrocuted multiple times this movie. But like he's trying to stab Peter with like one of the tentacles, and then Peter like pulls up like a i a a bunch of cables, and then he gets electrocuted. So it kind of disables the tentacles.
Zach Sheets: And then he's like, hey, you can take control of them. Don't let them control you. control them.
Zach Sheets: Which I guess is easier, because now they're electrocuted. They're weaker.
Zach Sheets: And he also, had like, Peter also has, like, the the speech from May that she gives them, like, earlier, which it's just, like, what a hero is.
Chris Prime: m
Zach Sheets: Like, you have to, a hero, they have to, like, give up what they what they actually what they want for the greater good.
Zach Sheets: and I was like, yeah, you're right. All right, I'm going to, I'll sacrifice myself in this, like, project that was, like, my entire life to the save everybody.
Chris Prime: Spider-Man really doesn't come up with any original sayings. He sort of just, like, repeats everything that he's heard.
Zach Sheets: Yep.
Zach Sheets: Was it, was the first one, did he like try to like use like an Aunt May like, like quote or something against the Green Goblin to try give it something to stop? And he's like, but then when the phone's like insane, it's just like, die spider.
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Chris Prime: Oh, it's like, Godspeed Spider-Man.
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Chris Prime: Maybe. i think he's like hey, like, we should stop. And it's like, okay. Psych.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, yeah like here he uses the actual like but like lifeline, like this the speech Aunt May gave him. Yeah.
Chris Prime: Should've gave him, like, a speech from Bonesaw. Just... Deep cut. Remember, like, a random line?
Chris Prime: Like, you ain't going nowhere! i got you for five minutes.
Zach Sheets: He has a weird dream where he's seeing Uncle Ben in a vision. He's just like, I've done Uncle Ben. I'm done being Spider-Man. Screw you.
Zach Sheets: gotta live my own life now. Uncle Ben's just like, no, you got it you you you made a promise. You gotta to keep it. like You made a promise to my like my dying body that you would be Spider-Man.
Chris Prime: Be Spider-Man forever.
Zach Sheets: And then Tony Blair literally says Spider-Man no more.
Chris Prime: He does?
Zach Sheets: Yeah, he's like, I'm Spider-Man, no more.
Zach Sheets: maybe Maybe that's just in 2.0 or 2.1, which is the version I watched.
Chris Prime: I think that happens in 2.1, man. So me and you saw different versions, by the way. Like, 2.1 came out years later.
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, which is, it's on the, I i have the Blu-ray trilogy set, I watched like the, you can watch 2 or 2.1, which,
Chris Prime: I watched the Disney Plus version. It's just the regular.
Zach Sheets: it's weird that they don't have 2.1 an extra on
Chris Prime: They should. Or maybe they do. just gotta, like, act, like, look through the menus, but...
Zach Sheets: one Because the other yeah other the other big scene, like the scene they added is like, a i think it's probably, it's been like on YouTube separately and stuff, but it's like Jonah in the Spider-Man costume when like when he gets it.
Chris Prime: i don't know. I feel like I want to get the Blu-ray trilogy. Like, you have.
Chris Prime: Yep.
Zach Sheets: likelets Like, he's on his desk pretending to be Spider-Man.
Zach Sheets: And also the the elevator scene where Spider-Man has to take the elevator down for the building is like it' it's like way longer.
Chris Prime: so with like howl with howl whatever his name all sparks
Zach Sheets: Yeah, but like how sparks. Yeah. And Hellas Park is like pitching him, like hey, I work for the advertising company in this building. like We should like talk about some some like promotional stuff, like maybe like a clone or something.
Zach Sheets: So it's like their conversation is an extra like two minutes or three minutes.
Chris Prime: oh
Chris Prime: I mean, I guess it's more world building, but this movie, I feel like it didn't need it. I don't know. My opinion is this is a tight paced part. So I think more is just a little bit more.
Zach Sheets: yeah i think I think the 2.1 is like an extra 8 minutes.
Chris Prime: Oh,
Zach Sheets: So it's like 2 hours and 15 minutes instead like 2 hours and whatever. Like whatever it is, the normal version. 2 2 hours and 7 minutes.
Zach Sheets: And then then like so after got over, I'll sacrifice himself. And that apparently gets like plucked away to the MCU.
Zach Sheets: As you learn in No Way Home. It's like the moment you were to die, they you got plucked the away.
Chris Prime: Yeah, so like all these people gonna die and they got plucked away? i don't understand how the rule works. So that way they later when they get sent back it's like the moment of their death.
Zach Sheets: Which would be really, that would be, like, really terrible for Otto. Like, in Noi Homi, he gets, like like, total redemption. Like, they fix his chip. Like, he's back he's back to normal. Like, he's back to me like, the kind person he was in the beginning of the movie. It's like, oh, he gets sent back, and now you're going get, like, you're going to drown in the river.
Chris Prime: Well, I mean, is that because he got sent back and then it's like, or was he drowning and then sent back?
Chris Prime: Because like, I feel like the, like being shocked by the electricity revert him back to normal.
Chris Prime: So he wasn't dead yet.
Zach Sheets: Well, he...
Chris Prime: So then when he gets sucked out of that, he's a villain in No Way Home.
Zach Sheets: Well, he got... I mean, he got... He was able to, like, take temporarily take control of his tentacles, but, like, he still... Like, they still can, like, control him because, like, the ship is still damaged in beginning Way Home.
Zach Sheets: So, like, they could they get still... there's Like, he still hears them and they're, like, talking to him. So he's not he's not, like, fully backed by just being, like, and like you know, kind, nice Otto until they, like, fix his ship.
Zach Sheets: Because cause the shit the ship blocks like his like higher brain functions from being like controlled by the tentacles.
Zach Sheets: then he can just like use them as like like appendages.
Chris Prime: Gotcha. See, you paid attention way more to the small details added up, and you to remember this across, like, I don't know, like 24 years of Spider-Man stuff up to that point.
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Chris Prime: you didn't realize the original like you didn't ever knew about the original Doc Ock origin
Zach Sheets: i haven I haven't read a lot of the OG, original Spider-Man comics.
Chris Prime: this it's rough I can lend you the like essentials that strips away all the filler issues and I read that as a kid I bought it at like a comic book store
Zach Sheets: I've read the first issue.
Zach Sheets: Was it like the masterwork? Like the big, thick, remember those ones, Marvel cones?
Chris Prime: No, no. Close to it, but it's like it's called like the Essential Marvel, Essential Spider-Man, about like the first three volumes that covers like the origin, in-between, 70s era, and then it's a few collections off before he gets the black suit.
Zach Sheets: Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: And I remember as a kid, I got the black suit beginning and end, which and it starts at the end of Secret Wars, so that's how...
Zach Sheets: Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: that happened but that got me enough fundamentals between collecting the 90s run because it's like it was confusing to read this and the 90s version somewhat the same time because i'll be like okay well i know what the future events are leading up to but like you know then going okay where's this going now and then the clone war showed up and i was like what is going on And the the over yeah like in the Clone Wars, that's something they just mentioned way back in like the 80s run of just like, there's another Spider-Man. OK. And they just threw him down.
Chris Prime: They threw his dead body down a smokestack.
Zach Sheets: ye
Chris Prime: Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Prime: as a fan, it's like, okay, this, this kind of storytelling is like insane. It's like very soap opera ish where like small details can become blown up. Huge details later. And, uh, you know, like the creativity of like either trying to connect the dots or starting fresh and still being inspired. Like,
Chris Prime: Doc Ock, I think up until this point, didn't really have that much complexity. And even, i think like two, a year or two before this was the ultimate series that came out.
Zach Sheets: Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: And that Doc Ock was even less like complex. That version Doc Ock, he was taller, but more athletic. that That was the difference. He was the almost the same archetype. There was nothing more complex. That version of Doc Ock didn't didn't have something else. But I think in that version, he chose to be evil.
Chris Prime: There was no like, oh, no, an accident. I think he was just straight up like, oh, cool. I made tools. I'm the most badass person alive. Time to go on a crime spree. Like, you know, I mean, there's no accident that forces him to do it.
Zach Sheets: yeah I think the biggest like Dakiaki for this for me was like the animated series
Chris Prime: Which I think, like, he just gets underfunding, and then his funding cuts, and then he just straight up, like, time to go steal. But he least put on battle armor. That was the big twist about his design, was he didn't just wear a medical outfit or some sort of scientist outfit.
Zach Sheets: like an open trench coat with no shirt on
Chris Prime: Yeah.
Zach Sheets: Everybody's just like, I'm gonna wear jacket but no shirt.
Chris Prime: least that Doc Ock, like, his tentacles came from, Like, it almost looked like his suit, like his power suit was with it. But did he ever wear his classic black, white suit with black shirt in that show?
Zach Sheets: i don't think so. I don't think i don't think they had the budget to do any sort of like other look.
Chris Prime: Design.
Zach Sheets: is He just had like his one like his yellow and green like armor look.
Chris Prime: Also, speaking of that look, I liked how for like 30 years up until this point, Spider-Man, same bowl haircut.
Zach Sheets: Yep. yep
Chris Prime: I mean, a little bit on the length, but essentially Doc Ock has terrible haircut fashion. That's like his trait. I think maybe...
Chris Prime: Was there a version where they gave him better hair? But it's always like the same bowl haircut and and like sunglasses or like like protective eyewear.
Chris Prime: I think in one of the spmans spectacular Spider-Man, they gave him goggles and no shirt. So that look came back for that.
Chris Prime: But yeah, what else we got to cover?
Zach Sheets: Oh, well just there's there's just a couple more things for like, so like at the end of like it's experiment two. So it's like we Harry discovers like the secret cache of Green Goblin stuff. So that's setting up experiment three. Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: Oh, which which we get into a little bit now. Does Harry have like schizophrenia? Because it's like they never really address how he hallucinates his father.
Zach Sheets: Yep. i mean It's just like in his genes, like he just like, it's like, well, your father was kind of crazy. Now you're crazy too. or just like, like his he's like, I see like mentally broke because like Peter Parker is Spider-Man. Like his best friend is is like his his worst enemy. It's like, I can't process that. I'm like, my mind just snaps.
Chris Prime: It's like, is this is is what happens to, like, business people?
Zach Sheets: I'm going to, I'm,
Chris Prime: Like, the stress makes you start, like, hallucinating your parents?
Zach Sheets: is
Zach Sheets: Your parents just like yelling at you how you're worthless and weak.
Chris Prime: But then there isn't a, like, hey, Harry, it's me, your dad. but I'm the Green Goblin. You know, that was like by accident. I feel like the ghost dad could have been in some other mirror and Harry would have thrown something at him too.
Chris Prime: But he happened to hit the secret mirror.
Zach Sheets: The secret mirror has like all the equipment in it.
Chris Prime: Yeah.
Zach Sheets: Yep.
Chris Prime: And that all that stuff is shelf stable for two years, like all the bombs and like formula.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, I don't know if I trust... I mean, what's what's the shelf life on like the Green Goblin like juice? that like like it's in like It's like a back wall of like and like a New York apartment building.
Chris Prime: No idea. It's not like refrigerated, it's just there.
Zach Sheets: Like, unventilated, un... Like, not climb-controlled.
Chris Prime: Conditioned.
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Chris Prime: Yeah. so All the way down, that's just decaying everything, and then as soon as, Like, a little bit of jolt, it's all volatile. It's like... It's old school, 18th century dynamite, which is the crate.
Zach Sheets: yeah
Chris Prime: And it's like, oh, yep.
Zach Sheets: Metroglycerin. Like, we're just leaking.
Chris Prime: If you like. Yeah. And if it like dropped heavy, it could just spark.
Chris Prime: Yeah. Like. What? Like Harry. Harry's not a weapon expert. He doesn't have training. He legit after the end of this movie.
Chris Prime: I think he just takes the serum. Like, I think this follow up movie is just like the next day.
Zach Sheets: well yeah he think it's just He always takes the serum, but then he somehow designs... like he because like In the back of that room is like the goblin glider from the first movie, but then he makes his own snowboard glider when he's the new goblin.
Chris Prime: Which, it's not even hinted at how he's surfboarding.
Zach Sheets: does He doesn't use any of his dad's like like armor or anything. He makes his own full like goblin outfit in a snowboard-style jet propulsion thing.
Zach Sheets: I went OzCorp was like, hey, can you guys build me hover jet board? Just for reasons.
Chris Prime: no No problem, I'm your CEO.
Zach Sheets: And also and also like a a super high-tech snowboard armor, like battle armor kind of thing, too. Definitely not definitely enough for killing Spider-Man.
Chris Prime: I mean, he's like the president of like a struggling, i guess, like business weapons manufacturer.
Zach Sheets: Whatever Oscorp does, yeah. Technology company or like science company.
Zach Sheets: Because they were cause the original king Green Goblin serum was to make super soldiers.
Chris Prime: Right. Which goes wrong immediately.
Zach Sheets: Yep.
Chris Prime: cause it's like no first test subject i guess harry will the norman will be the test subject they could have gotten anybody
Zach Sheets: they did didt I think they said, did they say like they tried they had test subjects and they all went nuts? It's like, well, then like Norman's like, well, that what would happen to me.
Chris Prime: well i think it's like a new i think it's like a new formula that they use But like does that mean that there's another person running around New York that has Goblin Formula in him?
Zach Sheets: i'm not crazy. Yeah.
Zach Sheets: maybe Maybe they're going to set up like the but the Hobgoblin.
Chris Prime: said that we got like Goblin Jr. in the third movie.
Zach Sheets: Yep. New goblin.
Chris Prime: Oh, I forgot that's what they call him.
Zach Sheets: Yep.
Zach Sheets: And then the last thing is Mary Jane is getting married, but she runs away from a wedding and then goes to Peter and they're like, why don't you let me choose like let me choose what I want to do And then it's like, alright, we're together now.
Zach Sheets: I think, is this the... I'm trying to remember if she said, did she say in the first one, did she say like, go get him, tiger? or is this the first go get him, tiger?
Chris Prime: That's this one.
Zach Sheets: Okay. Yeah.
Chris Prime: that's That's this one.
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Chris Prime: Okay, but we're going to remind you that that this there's a wedding scene that comes out and it's like, oh no, she's choosing not to...
Zach Sheets: she She's supposed to marry John Jameson, an astronaut who is J.
Chris Prime: Yeah, who came back from space?
Zach Sheets: Jonah Jameson's son.
Zach Sheets: And then she's like, nope, I'm going to run across New York in a wedding dress to go to Peter's crappy apartment.
Chris Prime: And I've been through where she's running through. And it's like, wherever Peter lives, it's like, that's a far run.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, and in in a wedding dress, too.
Zach Sheets: i do I do love Jonah's just like, cancel the caterers.
Chris Prime: Don't open the caviar.
Zach Sheets: Yep. Yeah,
Zach Sheets: and then the next movie, like, their relationship is on the rocks.
Chris Prime: oh the relationship that started with her running out of a wedding but you know and then just sort of wordlessly explaining I can't marry this person
Zach Sheets: Yep.
Zach Sheets: I handed my my my theater friend a note to hand to to John. should have been like, I love Spider-Man, bye.
Chris Prime: yeah just I'm a spider girl like but okay
Zach Sheets: you don't you don't kiss You don't kiss as well as Spider-Man, so I'm leaving you. Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: Apparently that upside down kiss was the make it or break it for them.
Chris Prime: So you ever think that we ever see John kind of figure out what's going on because his fiance gets kidnapped by Doc Ock publicly.
Zach Sheets: Yep.
Chris Prime: And then because he's like really he like is part of the the squad that somehow finds where Doc Ock's hideout was, because like he runs there.
Chris Prime: like like they They get a police you know drive him there. but
Zach Sheets: yeah but yeah like She comes with the police, yeah, then he's like runs up to where she's like getting lowered down by Spider-Man.
Chris Prime: But how did the police find out?
Chris Prime: Maybe the sounds?
Zach Sheets: i guess I guess maybe this is like foul of the metal getting sucked into like a black like a giant sun. like This warehouse downtown on the harbor like it's like sorry is like collapsing.
Zach Sheets: i think also, like I mean, like a car is a couple like a a cold blocks where I was like getting like sucked into it. so like It's like affecting like a much wider range than just like that like harbor area.
Zach Sheets: It's like lampposts and cars stuff are getting sucked into it.
Chris Prime: So they're like, okay, all these people are complaining it that their cars are gone.
Zach Sheets: for follow yeah Follow the cars that flying through the air and getting sucked into this like giant sun.
Zach Sheets: And yeah, and then and then No Way Home is kind of like the secret the secret sequel to all these. or like the actual, like kind of like includes everyone's storylines.
Chris Prime: Which, uh, still don't understand if that doesn't branch off into some other weird timeline, but because that MCU rule of, like, oh no, like, you can't alter time. just gotta send them back to where they supposed to be. And I feel bad for Doc Ock.
Chris Prime: You know? It's like, they don't tell them, like, hey, you're gonna send, but, well, i actually, do them don't they tell them where it's like, oh, you're gonna be sent back to the moment your death, and like, excuse me?
Zach Sheets: yeah can't Yeah, I can't remember if it's like... Oh yeah, yeah yeah the they have to go back and die because that's like, it's like ruin like the the multiverse.
Chris Prime: Just the villains. All the heroes are fine.
Zach Sheets: Yep.
Zach Sheets: But like, but like, it's like he, like, I'll familiarize a nice like, kind of reunion scene and where it's just like, it's like, oh, my boy, you've grown. It's nice to see you all grown up.
Zach Sheets: I kind of wish there was like more, like if they had built up more of like them heavy like being like a mentor and stuff. Like Doc Ock, they're a mentor to Peter. They only have like one scene where it's like they have like like an afternoon together. that's if But then I guess Insomniac, I think definitely i like took that and then like went for like the first Spider-Man game.
Zach Sheets: that the That's like the whole thing. is like Doc Ock is like Peter's like mentor and boss. they like They work together.
Chris Prime: Yeah, they really do capture just the the relationship and understanding between the two. That's why like the that 2018 Doc Ock is like such a way more tragic than the usual story.
Chris Prime: The Aphromelina is like a quick summary of it, but in the time that they spent together, it's nothing compared to the video game version.
Zach Sheets: Mm-hmm.
Chris Prime: think like Peter's just like, you're my idol. I worked. I saw you do some science in one day. then now, you know, it's not like the other one where Doc Ock knew Peter was Spider-Man and like understood the the duality of like doing all these things.
Zach Sheets: Because cause Peter also has, like, he has, like, no qualms about, like, when Doc Ock is, like, you know, when he's, like, robbing the bag or something, he's like I have no qualms about just, like, pounding you in the face. Like, you're in my idol, but I'm going to beat the shit out of you.
Chris Prime: I mean, listen, Spider-Man also killed his surrogate father, so... Punching someone is fine in this universe. As long as he doesn't, like, full strength, I guess, and, like, blow up, like, a hole through their face.
Zach Sheets: Because I don't know, like, don't didn't get, like, super strength. don't know. Like, he's his middle arms now.
Chris Prime: No!
Zach Sheets: He's just like, he's just like a, don't think he's like, he was working out or anything. He's just like a normal, a normal, like, kind of like dumpy sideist dude that like, it's not being pounded in the face like Spider-Man.
Chris Prime: You see, that's why in the animated series, he wears the power armor. So at least that's sort of the defense in case Spider-Man does punch and kick him.
Zach Sheets: Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Prime: But you're right. Like this one, it's after Molina with no combat training or no shirt for most of the time.
Zach Sheets: No shirt on. i Yep.
Chris Prime: He's just taking like a full on right bear, like like a guy.
Zach Sheets: To the face. like
Chris Prime: Spider-Man's suit isn't like padded. It's just like Lycra, you know, it's just punching someone.
Zach Sheets: Yep. Yeah.
Zach Sheets: not He doesn't even get like a nosebleed or anything. He's just like he like tanking like punches with Spider-Man to the face.
Chris Prime: he's that Yeah, he's not bruised. He's doing pretty well for a guy that his arms are telling him a few things. Like, he just has robot schizophrenia.
Chris Prime: The robot arms didn't make him stronger and give him endurance and healing.
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Zach Sheets: I mean, I guess they give him kind of like a shield because can wrap around him, but yeah. Hmm.
Chris Prime: Yeah, but that's that's... But after that, once his shields he overcomes the shield, he still take tanks a punch.
Zach Sheets: Hmm. Well, mean, they're like when they're when they're like going up the building, like, on the side of like inside the bank, or like said so but like, it's like multiple, like, Peter's just pounding him.
Chris Prime: Yeah. Well, mean, he'd throw an Aunt May.
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Chris Prime: So Idle or No Idle getting punched in the face is, like, Spider-Man's go-to move.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, I feel like, like, one or two punches with Spider-Man, I feel like you've been, like, a normal guy would be knocked out. Yeah.
Chris Prime: Especially if he's like emotionally charged.
Zach Sheets: who
Chris Prime: like Think about this. In the first movie, Goblin threatens Spider-Man's like, ooh, you're Aunt, and oh maybe you're Mary Jane. And he's like, okay, you're dead.
Chris Prime: I'm going to try to kill you now.
Zach Sheets: yep yep and that guy kidnaps may and mary j in this movie
Chris Prime: Yeah. Well, okay, to be fair, Doc, I mean, the Green Goblin semi-terrifies, or no, he straight up terrifies Aunt May.
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Chris Prime: But, like, because he blows up her bedroom just to be like, ha ha!
Zach Sheets: is' like finishish its It's like, it!
Chris Prime: Finish your prayer!
Zach Sheets: She's doing like a prayer.
Chris Prime: And then he just leaves? ha!
Zach Sheets: Yep.
Zach Sheets: But yeah, Spider-Man 2, still great. still I mean, I would probably put it in like top three Spider-Man movies.
Chris Prime: agree i think no way home just because of the nostalgic factor but if you remove that this this one is going to take the spot brand new day i'm hoping is sort of the new standard because it's like such a clean slate idea of like a different era spider-man but something familiar
Zach Sheets: I'd say like Into the Spider-Verse and Homecoming I think are also pretty great.
Chris Prime: Homecoming is good. The problem is that Homecoming is relying on like a grounded Spider-Man story again, where it's like a reboot of his version, where in Spider-Man 2, it's like, okay, we don't need to go through his origin again, but they kind because it's like reinventing why he needs to be a hero.
Chris Prime: He just can't be a girl already.
Zach Sheets: And they kind of redo him trying to figure out his powers scene again his way or two.
Chris Prime: Yeah, yeah.
Zach Sheets: Where it's like, I'm going to jump off my building and believe I can do it.
Chris Prime: So that's...
Zach Sheets: And then just falls horribly into the alleyway.
Chris Prime: Well, that's why you need a, like... It's a great sequel, because it's like the opposite... It's like, you know, parallels, but done differently about what you liked about the first movie.
Zach Sheets: Yeah.
Chris Prime: So when we think about other Spider-Man movies, you have to see something kind of super original, which you some of them do. some of them are like beat for beat. Like, okay, Spider-Man gets yelled at by a mentor.
Chris Prime: Spider-Man does an incredible feat of strength that goes wrong. Spider-Man has a hung up on a woman part that's like part of his problem.
Chris Prime: And then maybe...
Zach Sheets: can't Can't tell anyone about his secret identity until he does.
Chris Prime: Yeah. And then the last one is like, maybe the whoever he's fighting gets killed. Though the Tom Holland ones, he's never actually killed anyone by accident. Or... Like, they died in their own problem.
Zach Sheets: Well, Vulture got arrested and then got sent to, like, the worst the the worst fix the worst fate in the world, sent to, like, the the Sony Cinematic Universe.
Chris Prime: The Morpheus world.
Chris Prime: Never to be seen again.
Zach Sheets: Yep. Mysterio got killed, but like that was his own, like, doing.
Chris Prime: Okay, that's true. Okay, so he did die through that.
Zach Sheets: He, like, it got shot with his own drone because he was trying to kill, because Spider-Man, like, sensed it.
Chris Prime: I forgot that. forgot that he died from his own bullets. Okay, that's a classic Spider-Man move.
Chris Prime: Far from home, everyone just goes back to their moment of death, so that's a lot of deaths right there.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, they because they like well like Tom Holland's Spider-Man wants to kill Green Goblin, but then they they' are able to you're able to like give him like the cure for like the Goblin serum, and he's like, oh, i'm back to normal. I'm Norman again.
Chris Prime: And he's so full of regret.
Zach Sheets: so so sweet Send me back to get stabbed by my glider.
Chris Prime: Who then goes, okay, just don't tell Harry.
Zach Sheets: But yeah, hopefully, Brave Day is is is good. I mean, like I said in the beginning, like, getting getting really good reviews. It's also it's the the first fourth one we've had. Like, this is the first first time we did, like, a Spider-Man. It's been in four movies.
Zach Sheets: Like, Sam Raimi was a trilogy, and then Andrew Garfield got two. So it's the first, like, four-quil? Four? Whatever you call it.
Chris Prime: Quad?
Zach Sheets: Quadrilogy?
Chris Prime: No. No, Quad Quill?
Zach Sheets: quad i think it's a quadrilogy.
Chris Prime: Quadrilogy, yeah. I'm excited. Let's see if it's got the same power like, a Fast and the Furious franchise.
Chris Prime: That bitch got 11 of those movies.
Zach Sheets: I mean, 10, and then... Oh, you're going to hop in the jaw?
Chris Prime: I'm Kyrie Hobbs and Shaw.
Zach Sheets: Okay.
Chris Prime: but See, any of you think about, like, Endgame, it's a Spider-Man movie.
Zach Sheets: And then...
Zach Sheets: Yeah, I mean, Tom Hale has been in like many more Spider-Man movies than the other two guys. If you count like Civil War and Endgame and Infinity War and...
Chris Prime: Yeah. Maybe Doomsday.
Zach Sheets: i'm I'm sure he's a dude he's definitely in Doomsday.
Chris Prime: Imagine Brand New Day ends and then it's like, okay, well, we're gonna get a new Spider-Man from another timeline.
Zach Sheets: Tobey Maguire's back.
Chris Prime: We're just gonna speed this up and he's already an older adult with back problems.
Zach Sheets: Oh, wish we have to mention like then i one of the scenes when he falls in the car and he's like, my back! My back!
Chris Prime: Which I think at this point everyone's known as a running joke with Tobey Maguire.
Zach Sheets: Which he has... Mm-hmm. And then they do the great callback to in Noi Home and they with like the back popping scene and everything.
Zach Sheets: gotta watch Noi Home again before Ready Your Day comes out.
Chris Prime: I'm gonna watch like all of them up until of the Tom Holland like...
Zach Sheets: All the Town Hallowinds? Yeah.
Chris Prime: I have to wait out the crowds in my area. it's It's too chaotic to go see it. And I need to see it before the internet just spoils the shit out of it.
Zach Sheets: Yeah, definitely definitely avoid like Wikipedia and stuff, because it's already all over Wikipedia.
Chris Prime: I know. i'm like I have to stay off like YouTube shorts. There's going be like clips of it online or something.
Zach Sheets: Oh my god, yeah.
Chris Prime: Like, did you know this? Did you see this? Like, God, come on, people.
Zach Sheets: and People in the theater filming Mm-hmm. like filming stuff
Chris Prime: Oh my god. See, like, I just, I hate that. But, uh, hopefully next time we report, you know, Spider-Man related things, we can mention how awesome it it is and I'll just be like, man, Brand New Day was terrible.
Chris Prime: In fact, this that movie went back in time to Spider-Man 2 and let that Trillium eat the city. Or like, oh, do you see in Brand New Day they brought the Trillium back?
Chris Prime: It like, they They dragged it out of the water.
Chris Prime: That also got no way home. It's just the ore.
Zach Sheets: okay Yep. It might be Animantium or something now this in the MCU.
Chris Prime: Yeah, it got converted.
Zach Sheets: They have that now. it came from the the giant eternal head.
Chris Prime: Let's not get into that. That's a whole weird thing.
Zach Sheets: scan of worms. But yeah, that'll be over for this week's podcast. Come back next week, we're go be diving into The Purge Anarchy because we're getting the weird like romantic comedy, One Night Only, which is like The Purge, but for sex.
Zach Sheets: where It's like single it's like a one night where like single people can have sex legally in that movie. So obviously i mean obviously obviously that's inspired by like The Purge.
Chris Prime: Okay. Agreed.
Zach Sheets: less way less violence. But yeah, we're going to talk about that like like easily the best movie in the Purge franchise, the Purge Anarchy.
Chris Prime: agreed
Zach Sheets: And head over to site, we've got a stuff out there. We've got news, reviews, trailers. We've got all the Comic-Con trailers from last weekend. We've got a bunch trailers from like this week, too. It's its been like a tons of stuff coming out. You should check it out for like upcoming movies.
Zach Sheets: The Avengers Doomsday trailer came out last week, too. think That's up on the site if you want to like do more MCU stuff. i'm assuming I'm assuming that's in front of a brand new day. if it's it's not, that' would be like, i don't know what they're doing.
Zach Sheets: And then we also have our GameBox 2.0 up. You can check out what games we played for July. We also have our July commentary. We watched the 1985 Italian cult classic Demons. So you can watch that along with us and see the commentary on There's a version on YouTube you can sync up to it, or like it's on Tubi and Shudder bunch of other places, so you can check that out too.
Zach Sheets: And yeah, for Chris, I'm Zach, and we will see you next week.
