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TTP #15- Chris St. Hillaire on Music and Activism, Organizing, Positive Effects of Living a Plant-Base Diet on the Road
12 Plays5 years ago
My conversation this week is with drummer, multi instrumentalist, activist and all around inspirational guy Chris St Hillaire. After more than a decade with his band the London Souls, Chris is now touring with Sinkane. Chris is also a founding member of the Sound Mind Collective who's "aim is to to connect independent musicians and artists with our local communities to encourage meaningful positive growth through education, social justice advocacy and creativity." Chris insight into the connecting the worlds of activism and music is inspiring and so important
Intro music: 'Do you?' from DB3 album 'Firebrand'
Episode interludes are taken from: Chris St. Hillaire "Strangers" and "Road March", London Souls "Steady Are You Ready" and Sinkane "Everybody"
In this conversation:
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Sound Mind Collective
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Operating in a conscious way
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SMC and community based issues beyond music ie policing- mentorship to incarcerated kids
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Musician business workshops
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Lack of organizing in younger musicians
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Activism on tour and linking with local communities
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Eating healthy on a budget while on tour
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Journey to plant-based diet
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Ethical treatment of animals
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Growing up in Trinidad
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Standard American Diet= SAD
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Food=Culture
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Life on the road forcing the issue with regards to health- That being the catalyst for change
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Plant-based diet+ change in playing, life on tour, approach and mental clarity/focus
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Daily schedule- Juice bar in the morning
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Show preparation- Positive mindstate above all
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Developing an activist mentality in musicians
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Interconnectedness of issues
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London Souls
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Sinkane
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Importance of valuing relationships in building a music career
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Goals: long term vs short term
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Leave room for your goals to evolve
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Torganic Pike. Ultimately, the underlying message is positivity and self-empowerment and spiritual empowerment and upliftment. And that has to be the message. Otherwise, you're perpetuating the problem. That's the headspace that I think musicians and creators have to operate in.
00:00:22
Speaker
This is the Torganic Podcast, and I'm David Bayless, your host. In the show, I explore how musicians seek to find a balance to maintain health of mind, body, and soul while living a life on the road. Whether it's through a plant-based diet, fitness, yoga, meditation, through this podcast, I've seen how everyone has to find their own path, but there is so much to learn from each other.
00:00:42
Speaker
My conversation this week is with drummer, multi-instrumentalist, activist, and all-around inspirational guy, Chris Saint-Hilaire. After more than a decade with his band The London Souls, Chris is now a touring member of the band Sin Cane. We begin the pod discussing the sound mind collective of which Chris is a founder. It's so great to see how they've been doing really outstanding things for the community of musicians out there to not only put positive ideas forward, but also to help propel these ideas into action.
00:01:12
Speaker
So with Soundmind Collective, we're ultimately trying to bring musicians and activists together for causes. I mean, yeah, we try to raise money for causes and we try to bring attention and stuff, but ultimately, and I was thinking about it, it's kind of more about having the conversation and making sure that everyone's operating
The Soundmind Collective and Social Responsibility
00:01:35
Speaker
in a conscious way that the musicians aren't just being there for entertainment or escapism for people but that there's actually an outlet for real issues that are going on and musicians can have a part and have a voice in that without feeling like they're they're bringing down the vibe or something and activists can also take part in
00:01:56
Speaker
in a fun event without being so militant all the time, even though that's extremely important. Yeah, there's a there's a great history of music and activists being absolutely forces and really being one. Yeah, that's that's what gives people a voice. I mean, look at the staple singers and even all the anti Vietnam stuff in the 60s.
00:02:20
Speaker
Without music, those movements would never have had as much potency. And James Brown. James Brown, exactly. Every decade, every movement has had a musical counterpart.
00:02:33
Speaker
Yeah, we're trying to do our part. And we put on two benefit shows, one for a mentorship program for incarcerated kids, mostly black and brown kids in New York that have been jailed as part of the school to prison pipeline that's been created where they're policing the schools and using minor offenses to give black kids a criminal record.
00:02:57
Speaker
and then prevent them from excelling and being able to have the same opportunities in life. So we did a fundraiser for them. That was great. And then the last one that you were at was for a police accountability campaign. Right. That's trying to hold police accountable to the communities and not just the commissioner who's not going to really discipline his officers. And then we also do business workshops to try to educate
00:03:22
Speaker
musicians on stuff, like we did a tax workshop to show musicians how to do the taxes, why it's important, how to count.
00:03:31
Speaker
because they're notoriously bad with money. Yeah, that's a great thing, educating artists and musicians. That's the side of it that I feel most passionate about. Because of the way that I grew up, I didn't know a lot of things. And you got to know what you're signing. You got to know about your publishing. You got to know about contracts and money issues.
00:03:56
Speaker
And then just even, you know, tying it into what you're doing with like health and taking care of yourself and eating right. A lot of musicians aren't educated on how to take care of themselves. And so they like burn out. Definitely. And they might have one great album and then it's like they can't sustain it because they don't know how to how to take care of themselves, how to operate in a healthy way. And did you guys join forces?
00:04:23
Speaker
Thinking that there's a bit of a void right now in terms of the activist and musician Mentality, I felt so yeah, at least with a lot of people Independent musicians our age that are not superstars, you know using their Twitter account to to affect policies and also people who aren't
00:04:45
Speaker
in musicians unions, because the union kind of represents the Broadway and
Community Engagement for Musicians
00:04:52
Speaker
classical musicians and sort of the higher end jazz musicians and stuff. And that's great, but kind of where we're at, people who are playing their own music and younger people in our sort of scene, if you could call it that.
00:05:08
Speaker
don't really have the same solidarity, they don't have the same representation. And I noticed that they don't have the same voice and they're not doing enough in activism, really, together. There's little isolated pockets. But to me, I felt a void. And as I talked to more people like Nikhil and other people, Chauncey and, you know, all these guys, it was like, we're all thinking the same thing, but nobody was really doing anything together.
00:05:35
Speaker
So we started out with conversations and then it turned into, let's put on some shows, let's put on some workshops, let's really organize. One thing that's really important about that is you mentioned the big stars and their Twitter activism.
00:05:51
Speaker
And what I think is really important about what you guys are doing is it's taking it out of the social media context and it's taking out of what in a sense still isolates us from other people, social media and the computers and the phones. Yeah, it's a way of connecting, but getting people together in a room and talking about things and throwing an event where different people from different crews in different pockets are actually talking
00:06:15
Speaker
It's a completely different experience of awareness and the positivity that can come from that is really great rather than just trying to encourage social media activism, which it has its place, but there's nothing like getting people together. There's no substitute for that.
00:06:33
Speaker
Yeah. And social media networks is not a real community. It can be a voice for a real community, but there's no substitute for face to face getting together and doing something and showing up. You know, there's a lot of people and musicians are guilty of this. I've been guilty of this where you talk a lot about something, but when it comes to getting it done, you fall short. Yeah.
00:06:56
Speaker
and you're not able to deliver and show up and really be there and commit. So sometimes the social media outlets can be sort of a lazy approach. It's like, well, I can't show up, but I can say this. And if you can't show up, you're not going to really get anything done. Right. But that said, if you do show up and then you can use social media as an expansive
00:07:20
Speaker
Tool. Tool, exactly. Then that's great. But we want to do more than just talk on platforms and make strong statements in the comment sections. The people that are doing harm to our society are doing much more than that. So to counteract it, you really have to get together. And face-to-face human interaction, that's what we're talking about is humanity.
00:07:49
Speaker
Yeah. So we have to interact as human beings and through an online platform, it's kind of hard to do that, you know, effectively. Yeah. And I think that taking that concept in terms of touring, too, and on the activism tip, but also just I think we spoke about it that night. I'm really interested in trying to find ways to interact more with the communities that we
00:08:17
Speaker
you know, we roll through on tour. It can be musicians, we can live this really isolated life on tour where we just show up, you know, you get to the venue, you sound check, play the show, leave next thing the next, same thing the next day and you get into the same work. You just see the interstate and the venue. Yeah, exactly.
00:08:37
Speaker
Yeah, like one way I've tried to do that is just by my fitness by running and I play tennis and trying to just Incorporate myself into communities that way and just meet people and see the city and really or if it's beautiful Countryside or like whoop, you know, whatever like Colorado like I just try to really experience where we're at. Yeah
00:08:56
Speaker
Immerse myself exactly and I think that's one really positive way to do it but another way is to try to connect more with people on an activist tip and connect with communities and organize whether it's through sort of what I'm doing with the vegan diet and connect with people about health and food and if we can create a bit of a circle with musicians touring that can
Conscious Touring and Sustainability
00:09:21
Speaker
that can spill out to other bands who are touring and oh our friends are coming or just start to create networks in towns where maybe there's people that want to provide good food for musicians and we just haven't been able to make that link. Stuff like that.
00:09:37
Speaker
And supporting local businesses too is another way. And actually a friend of mine, Johanna Warren, who's a super talented guitarist and singer, she just did a tour that I thought was cool. It was kind of a plant medicine tour, was the theme of it, and she teamed up with local herbalists in each town and brought them out and they would have a little
00:09:58
Speaker
a little like stand at the show and people who, local farmers would come and set up at the show and local permaculture people. So she tried to partner, you know, seek out people for where in the town she's going and invite them to the show. And that was a cool, that was one way to do it that I thought was cool. And like, and speaking of community, like what better way to connect to the community than through food?
00:10:26
Speaker
And, you know, stop by local farmer's markets and co-ops and local groceries, local businesses, and really connect that way rather than just the Popeyes on the interstate. Yeah. And that to me is hugely valuable.
00:10:47
Speaker
and can actually, like I said, connect to the community. Which is, I think it's a great way to do it. Musicians should be a little more conscious as they're traveling through and not just look at it as a dot on the map or how many people are coming tonight, just thinking of it in terms of a transaction or a currency. And it's not necessarily the fault of musicians. It's such a grind on the road. Sure. There's so much going on.
00:11:17
Speaker
So partially, I think it's up to us, people that are aware and are striving to do these things to try to create some kind of network and a framework to help these things exist. I'm just scratching the surface in terms of ideas and maybe through my blog and through the outreach of your organization and we can try to strategize on ways to make that happen.
00:11:41
Speaker
I think it's worthwhile because musicians have a hard go of it on the road. Like you said, part of the reason that that's so difficult to achieve is because we're pushed into a corner.
Dietary Choices and Health on Tour
00:11:56
Speaker
It's like fend for yourself and really
00:11:59
Speaker
the convenience of not having to organize and do all this extra stuff yourself and just kind of, all right, what's the simplest way to get through the gig and get through tomorrow and whatever. That is more the driving force than it's not like people want to ignore it.
00:12:14
Speaker
the communities they're passing through. We're just put in a tough position. Yeah, and I think that connects totally with diet and health on the road. It's not that people want to eat like crap. It's not that they want to feel burnt out. It's just that's the position most people are in and they don't quite understand the path.
00:12:33
Speaker
or how to get out of that. Yeah, they don't have the options immediately available. I mean, some of them just don't care. True. And that's fine. True. Some people are just like, you know what, I'm just gonna eat like crap and that's how I roll. Totally. You can provide an option for me and I'm gonna turn it down. That's true.
00:12:48
Speaker
And that's fine. There's no judgment with any of that. But there are a lack of options that people are really aware of. They don't see it as a real solution. And it's also an affordability issue. If you want to try to go to the vegan restaurant in town, you're going to be spending more than the local diner or the fast food joint. And when musicians are struggling,
00:13:13
Speaker
That's why all the issues are interconnected. It's an economic issue, as well as a health issue, as well as an environmental issue, and a racial justice issue, and it's all these issues. You're not gonna go into the black neighborhood and find a health food store. So by seeking out the healthy option, you might actually be supporting the community that doesn't really need the support.
00:13:39
Speaker
and leaving out another community because of the way the society is structured. And that's a really tough, and then as healthy options become more expensive with organic labels and all that, it ends up being reserved for those who can afford it.
00:13:56
Speaker
Right. Which is a tough position and then people feel like you're on your high horse by trying to take the healthy option. It is tough on the road and going to vegan restaurants, I totally agree, but you can do healthy vegan, healthy plant-based whatever food on a budget. No, you can. I was just trying to address the perception.
00:14:18
Speaker
And you bring up something really important, I think, about the food deserts in the lower income communities and that type of thing. And how did you get into eating healthy on the road? I mean, it started with I just didn't want to feel like crap. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of the beginning. When I have to play drums and sing and, you know, and I'm not getting enough rest and breaking my back, lifting gear and playing shows and everything.
00:14:44
Speaker
It was like the least I could do was try to eat healthy. And when did this, when did you start to make that realization? I mean probably 10 years ago. Okay. We were already traveling a lot. London Souls. Yeah. And we weren't full on touring but we were doing enough trips here and there and I just...
00:15:03
Speaker
I just didn't, I could feel something was off in my body. And especially as a drummer, like you kind of need to be in touch with your body to do it right. It's very physical. It's a physical thing, you know, and I grew up, I grew up with a more athletic sensibility. I was never like an all-star athlete, but I did play tennis and I ran a lot and played soccer and Trinidad, you know, and so I treated it
00:15:27
Speaker
as a body conditioning as well. I was like, there's something wrong here. I'm not, I can't just eat bacon, egg and cheese all the time. So that started it. But then as I explored it more, you know, and I began to educate myself as to the broader implications of a plant-based diet. And I think it can like change the world. It's like you look at, they're cutting down acres of Amazon forest to make
00:15:56
Speaker
to make cow grazing land, to feed half the vegetables grown in the world to cows while destroying the rainforest. And it's contributing to all kinds of things, it's contributing to global warming, it's contributing to destroying indigenous communities. Yeah.
00:16:11
Speaker
and they're making so much profit off of it and then they're poisoning these animals and feeding us the poison. So I started to read more about that and once, you know, there was no going back from there. I was like, cool, I can't have a blind eye to all this anymore. So I was determined from then to find ways to eat healthier and take care of myself and then contribute to like a sustainable solution for the future of the planet and humanity.
00:16:39
Speaker
You know, I was a drop in the bucket, just one person, but to me it's a global issue. But that education came a little bit later. It started as just me feeling like crap and wanting to know why. I had a similar path myself of starting really on being on a health and fitness tip and just trying to maximize performance and then as I started to get into it and learning about
00:17:03
Speaker
the lens of the ethical treatment of animal. Wow, really aware of what was happening there. And then starting to learn about the environmental impacts, which is I always.
00:17:15
Speaker
viewed myself as an environmentalist since I was young, as someone who wanted to figure out ways to help people treat the earth and move in the right direction. So once I started to learn about what was happening there, it's mind blowing, the figures. Yeah, it's disturbing. Yeah. It's, it's unhuman. It's like,
00:17:33
Speaker
And like you said with the animal treatment, you look at the way we treat animals, and it's disgusting. I mean, if you visited a chicken factory or a cow farm, you know, even driving down I-5 in California, and you pass that huge cow farm that I was introduced to as cow schwitz,
00:17:58
Speaker
And just, you could smell it like five miles away. And they're just sitting there in the mud, eating out of just disgusting troughs. And they're all like, they just look sad. They look unhealthy. Yeah. And it's like, that's where half of our, you know, hamburgers come from. And you really, you really want to eat that and think that's good for you. And that's, and that's allowed to be the cheap option because of subsidies and everything. And the treatment of these animals is like,
00:18:25
Speaker
Man, you got to believe that at some point that's that bad energy that is created from torturing animals makes its way into you if you eat it. You got to like whatever you think about karma. I mean, you can't think that that's good for you.
00:18:45
Speaker
And just on a level of humanity, just sort of accepting that seeps into our psyche that it's okay that this is happening. Yep. It sets an example and we could turn a blind eye to all kinds of other mistreatments. I mean, look at the way we treat each other, you know, to me that translates to it. I mean, maybe it's a leap and you know, I can understand that it's obviously not exactly the same, but I mean, there was a time when people accepted slavery.
00:19:12
Speaker
And they went, well, you know, it's bad, but there's nothing I can do about it. And that's just the way the world works. And I feel like if we do actually progress as a society, it may be in 100 years, there'll be a time we'll look back and go, I cannot believe that there was a time people accepted this treatment of animals. I believe we are going to.
00:19:30
Speaker
We are going to get to that place. That's my hope. That's my hope. I think that at least a portion of the population will because we can't survive without that. Right. And truly, we're not on a sustainable course right now with the meat consumption that's happening. No, we're not. It's self-destructive. It's inherently like the bubble is going to burst.
00:19:51
Speaker
And it's either going to be violently or it's going to be through our awareness and willingness to change. But I believe that too.
00:20:21
Speaker
And when you were growing up, did you come from a family that was conscious about these type of things? Not at all. I went against my family. Yeah. So that was, that was a whole other personal hurdle. Okay. You know, some people are brought up in families that really teach them and encourage them. And for me, it was really, it was a solitary,
00:20:42
Speaker
At first, maybe I was a bit of a contrarian in my family and just wanting to do what was opposite. By nature. By nature, yeah. But as I grew out of that, I also realized like, no, I'm actually right.
00:20:59
Speaker
You guys are wrong about this. And I ended up educating my family a little bit about stuff. And they've come around on certain things. But then some of my extended family have also, most of my family lives in the Caribbean. They're in Trinidad. Did you grow up there? I spent a lot of time as a kid there. I was born here, but...
00:21:23
Speaker
up to the age of five I was in Trinidad most of the time and then when I went to school it was up here and I would go down there for the summers and the holidays and I still go once a year for three weeks or so because it's like all it's everybody except for the nuclear family as they say it's down there all the aunts and uncles cousins grandparents and or one surviving grandparent and so and that's a very uh
00:21:51
Speaker
It's such a different lifestyle and I have some cousins that have gotten into the permaculture down there and really because everything just grows. And it's actually amazing and kind of discouraging to see how they've become very sort of Americanized and
00:22:08
Speaker
industrialized in their food like there's they're importing Costa Rican bananas when bananas are growing on the hills a mile away and and avocados and mangoes and stuff and they're like importing this stuff in the grocery because of the the global economy and all of that as opposed to it's like cheaper for them somehow or they're just pressured into
00:22:32
Speaker
taking this option for political reasons and wrapping a bunch of vegetables and plastic that have been shipped thousands of miles when the same stuff is growing 40 minutes down the road. But some of my cousins have become aware of this and started their own green markets down there and started educating themselves on permaculture and all of that.
00:22:57
Speaker
I would go down there and I would actually learn things too. So even though up here I was sort of alone, I would go down there and then pick up on things and go, oh, okay. Made me feel a little less lonely in my decision and diet. Because the American diet is like, you know, the acronym is SAD, S-A-D. Standard American diet is like really just inherently unhealthy and it's psychological. Like it's like down to a dogmatic,
00:23:25
Speaker
way where you can't even convince somebody that they're doing harm like they're they're like militantly aggressively eating terribly and if you if you eat otherwise then you're a threat to to them yeah it sounds absurd sometimes just saying it but food is so deeply embedded into our who we
00:23:47
Speaker
perceived that we are and our beliefs. And so sometimes when you question someone's diet, it's almost like you're questioning their character and all the choices that they've made.
Cultural and Personal Food Conversations
00:24:00
Speaker
That's a great point. That's why it's really hard to have conversations about food. It's so personal and it's almost like talking about religion. It's kind of on that level and that's why it's so hard to change it because people are really so
00:24:18
Speaker
just deeply invested in their food choices. And it also, it speaks to their culture. Like that's an expression of their culture. The food is the deepest thing. So if you associate as American, then, you know, your food choices are hot dogs and hamburgers and chili fries and whatever. And if anyone says, hey, so it turns out that stuff is actually causing cancer and destroying the planet and like,
00:24:44
Speaker
and destroying indigenous communities and this and that, like, then it becomes, well, you can't question what I eat. And like, I'm American. You can't say that. And it's like telling them, you know, Jesus isn't real or something. And so it becomes a really problematic conversation. And people are so sensitive. It's like a very personal thing. It's a hard topic to talk with people
00:25:11
Speaker
And it comes on both sides and not be on the defense. Everyone instantly goes on the defense, whether it's from my camp about, you know, eating the plant based vegan or a meat eater. Oh, yeah. Vegan vegetarians are just as bad sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. Everyone gets on the defense and no one really wants to be on the defense when they're talking about this sort of thing. But everyone instantly kind of goes there and it becomes this confrontational thing. So it's a hard thing to talk about. Um,
00:25:38
Speaker
without sort of getting into that confrontational mentality. Yeah, that's why people have to be open-minded. And it's also why people are so tribal about this sort of thing. They seek out, oh, I'm this, so I'm just going to find all the information that supports this.
00:25:56
Speaker
And it's a tough thing. I'm pretty aware of these dietary trends and stuff and the big keto movement now and what was paleo. People are really... I don't even know what keto is. That's the meat. I'm not even up on that. Okay, keto is a... I'm not an expert on keto, but I'm trying to learn a lot about what it is. But it's about putting your body in a state of ketosis and a lot of athletes and people that are very into fitness are doing this.
00:26:26
Speaker
Basic dietary elements is really similar to paleo. So if I'm wrong, I'm sure my listeners, if someone wants to send me a DM on my Instagram or whatever and tell me how wrong I am about that, but that's my basic take is that it's very similar in terms of paleo, in terms of what they eat, but it's a huge growing movement right now and there's a lot of people butting heads like vegan versus keto and there's these guys, all the big talking heads are lining up.
00:26:56
Speaker
I think just to take it back to what we were saying before, there's definitely good things in both camps and I know where I stand, but sometimes we get so caught up in that that we lose the greater picture of what we were just talking about, the global effect of eating animals and the factory farming and what's that doing to the world's well-being and economy and sustainability on a long-term basis. That gets sort of lost in the weeds of arguing about
00:27:24
Speaker
what's the best thing for us to eat, to maximize our performance? Yeah, it's almost, I mean, it's kind of a privileged conversation to have. It's like assuming that we're on the right track, but we can get into the nitty gritty of like, well, this kind of grain or this, or raw versus, and it's like, we're not even as a society there yet, but it's fine. I respect people's desire to get into those details and
00:27:50
Speaker
I mean, maybe it's people that are just into it. Like for me, I'm into drums. And I could talk about bearing edges and talk about what year is like the best Gretsch kit and this and that. But ultimately, that's just me.
00:28:30
Speaker
You really started getting on your health tip in terms of diet was because of touring and starting to see how you were feeling.
Dietary Planning and Strategies
00:28:38
Speaker
Was that the catalyst? Yeah, it was a bit of that. It really was exaggerated, I would say, on the road because that was the cutting edge of my
00:28:49
Speaker
of my exertion and my life, the things that were wrong with me would show glaringly on the road because it's pushing myself, not resting enough, and really putting myself in new situations and challenging myself. And that's kind of when you feel it.
00:29:08
Speaker
It's like, you know, you don't always feel the altitude if you're 10,000 feet up. But if you start running, then all of a sudden you realize, wait a minute, like something's different up here. So I think that was sort of the catalyst, even though I wasn't entirely healthy off the road. And then the other thing was noticing the lack of options.
00:29:29
Speaker
on the road, if we're touring on the interstate or we're going through the south and the only option really on the way to the gig is like a fried chicken joint or something. I didn't have the options that I had in a place like New York City. And so I would inherently make unwise food choices that I would pay for.
00:29:51
Speaker
on the road, whereas here, it was kinda like I had a lot of options and I could balance it out quickly. But on the flip side, what that does is it forces you to prepare more. Correct. And forces you to become more aware. Force you to plan. Yeah, to plan and be more aware of that type of thing. Whereas if you're just in New York, it's like, you might not have to plan if you're not that type of person. You're like, oh yeah, no matter what, I'm gonna pass a million,
00:30:19
Speaker
cafes or a bodega or a natural market. I can get whatever I need just rolling around versus being on the road. I might go 24 hours without seeing food that I'm going to eat, so let me make sure I'm ready and prepared to do that. That's a planning thing. That's why I got to a point where I was
00:30:42
Speaker
I was like, there's no excuse anymore. I could use that excuse that, oh, I'm out in the middle of nowhere, so I got to eat like crap because that's how it is. But if you just, the night before you get to the hotel or wherever you're staying and you just do some research about your route and the next day, just spend 10 minutes, 15 minutes looking it up, you can find places and you can plan ahead. And, you know, I mean, we would even stop it.
00:31:05
Speaker
to Whole Foods and just grab some produce and have some carrots in the van if we had an eight-hour stretch across West Texas or something. And that would keep us going. And even having a cooler in the van, sometimes that could get messy.
00:31:21
Speaker
We had to limit that but and then putting stuff on your rider and Coordinating with the promoters of the show to be like hey we need some healthy food options You know yeah instead of like stocking up spending a hundred bucks on liquor and beer for us Get us some some fresh food so that when we show up to the show
00:31:41
Speaker
we can be taken care of and healthy. Most people don't think ahead to do that. So I stopped letting myself off the hook with that and would really try to think ahead. And you really can make it work. It's like it can be discouraging at first, but if you plan ahead, it's like anything else.
00:32:00
Speaker
It's one of the main things people ask me like, how do you do it? And the first thing I always say is preparation and planning. And it's important that you said that about the rider too. That's one common thread through all the podcasts I've done. Everyone says,
00:32:18
Speaker
they hook up the rider. Yeah. So no matter what, you're going to get to the venue and there's going to be whatever you need personally or whatever's going to help you get through is going to be there. Yeah. That's a critical element. It is. And it doesn't always pull through. True. I mean, some places don't deliver. So, but at least it's just another notch that you can.
00:32:39
Speaker
that another tool you can use to make sure you have what you need. And were your bandmates going through the same thing as you in terms of were they sort of coming to the same realization at the same time or did you influence them? Did they influence you? Were they even on the same trip as you? I think I influenced them. I mean we were touring as a duo.
00:32:58
Speaker
for a while, but also a tour manager. So it'll be three of us. And I think I was the one spearheading that I'd be like, guys, we got to find a spot. We got to find like a fresh juice place in the morning. Cause we're only getting three hours of sleep and driving 10 hours. And it's like, this is, we need nutrients guys. Like trust me.
00:33:16
Speaker
And so I was kind of, and as I did that, uh, everyone else came around and started, then they would start recommending it. Yeah. I'd be like, Oh wow. I didn't think you would, you'd be the one to suggest that or find the, the local vegan grocery. Like, okay, cool.
00:33:33
Speaker
So I saw that effect because they saw the results of, oh wow, I feel better. I don't get sick as often on the road. Uh, my hangovers less intense, you know, maybe I don't stop drinking, but at least I know that, uh, I'm not going to feel as crappy if I have some green juice or if I eat well and I can play better. So they started seeing the results of that just on a survival level and a performance level, which is what it's all about. Yeah.
00:33:58
Speaker
And that you can really feel. That's not an intellectual explanation. That's like you just feel better. Yeah. And you know it instantly. That sort of leads me to my next question, which is, as you start to make those changes, could you feel that in your, in your drumming and your, your playing your performance overall? Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Cause it's a different energy altogether. I mean, when you're eating just plant-based, granted sometimes I just wouldn't eat enough.
00:34:25
Speaker
Cause if you're going vegan, like you just have to kind of up the amount that you eat. You can't just have one meal in the morning and get through. Like you kind of got to snack a lot. And so sometimes I wouldn't eat enough, but when I figured out the right proportion to eat, my energy was so much better.
00:34:42
Speaker
Just as a drummer, I mean, I wasn't getting worn out. When I was eating a lot of meat and cheese and heavy foods and breads and stuff, the first 20 minutes would be fire. It'd be amazing. And then it would just start to sink. And I wouldn't really be able to sustain that energy. And that's that meat energy. It's like a very aggressive and all at once kind of a strength.
00:35:10
Speaker
as opposed to a sustained strength like you look at the strength of a tree versus the strength of a lion or something and the lion has to sleep like 22 hours a day to do that one hunt whereas a tree is just standing for years and years and years and anything can come up against it and it has resilience.
00:35:30
Speaker
So I kind of felt that in my own playing that I could really last longer, I could deal with adversity better, I could recover. If I cracked my knuckle open on a cymbal, the wound would actually heal faster. And I was less drained, I was less winded, and I was also making smarter choices.
00:35:52
Speaker
like with my just with my day and musical choices where I was going after things I could actually achieve rather than just you know rolling the dice and throwing it all and wasting my energy on on something when it was like no you know what I got a whole tour ahead of me like
00:36:10
Speaker
Let me make a smart musical choice that will make the whole show better, rather than just chase this one moment. Even though that's fun sometimes. But that's deep, yeah. It's beyond just a physical thing, that mental clarity. Exactly. My judgment was better.
Tour Routines and Mental Preparation
00:36:30
Speaker
I never thought that would happen.
00:36:34
Speaker
And I noticed that changing the diet really affected my judgment and I was able to see if something or someone negative was like coming at me or trying to get involved or have a conversation, I could spot that sooner and could avoid the situation rather than just kind of having blinders up and only seeing what was right in front of me and then not being able to see things coming. And that's a very psychological thing and there's a lot of other factors involved in that other than diet.
00:37:03
Speaker
That's like a maturity thing and a note read knowing how to read people and all that but I noticed the difference from diet that I was less preoccupied and and and I was more I was more focused and Clear and a clear state of mind for sure and what is do you have? Is there sort of a typical regimen you have in? For a day on tour a day on tour. Yep
00:37:29
Speaker
We would always start by finding a juice spot. That was kind of the move, you know? And sometimes that can get expensive, so it really depends. But ultimately, we decided it was worth it. If you start the day with a fresh juice or a smoothie or something, find a spot on the way. And even if you have to drive an hour,
00:37:49
Speaker
you know, on the way, not out of the way, but you drive an hour towards your next destination, that's worth it. Just to start the day with that. And that was kind of the grounding element. Everything else sort of, you know, I would try to find a spot close to the venue that we got to, but really that was the only constant.
00:38:10
Speaker
if we pass the Whole Foods, which usually do in most cities. So we'd try to find those, but a local juice spot, and it's always, we would try to find a local one as opposed to a chain. Totally. To support a local business.
00:38:26
Speaker
And then on the weekends, if there's a farmer's market, try to look out for that. And to me, that was really an important element too, is supporting the local business, local community, as opposed to just popping into the Whole Foods and zipping out, even if they might have more options. I would always try to find the local spots. You couldn't always do it, but.
00:38:51
Speaker
But that's kind of how, you know, we didn't have a total full day regimen. But it would at least start right. That's a good way to start the day. Yeah, it kind of like helped. And as a result, I mean, the last four years, personally, I haven't gotten sick once. And the kind of stuff that I've put myself through on the road is like,
00:39:13
Speaker
I kind of look back, how did I not get sick? Everyone else around me did and I think that was a huge part of it. Definitely. What about pre-show? Do you have anything you do, diet or health or stretching or in terms of eating before the show or not eating before? Is there anything you kind of try to stick to?
00:39:32
Speaker
Yeah, well, it's better to not eat right before the show. I try to plan it so at least an hour before going on stage. Hour, yeah. I've eaten. That was the general rule, but sometimes we had to break that because doing support tours or the time of the show is just weird or you get stuck in traffic. Yeah. So you kind of have to be adaptable. For me, what I came to ultimately was to get the best thing for the show and the music is really what I care about was to be in a good state of mind.
00:40:02
Speaker
and to keep the vibe strong. So I could go on stage on an empty stomach. And if I felt right in my mind and I felt clear, then it would be a good show, even if I physically was not really where I should be. And that listening to good music and being positive and telling jokes. And then even when you're on stage and maybe you go for something and you don't quite land it, or you mess up and you can laugh it off because you're in a good state of mind.
00:40:33
Speaker
And that to me wound up being more important ultimately because you don't always have the options, the food options that you need. And is there anything else you do to support that rather than just the awareness? I want to be in a good state of mind. Is there any strategies? I mean...
00:40:54
Speaker
Music really helps me and maybe that's redundant, but always having the music that you want to listen to around you, for me, it helps. I just make playlists and I control what we listen to in the van and just be like, we're listening to this right now.
00:41:13
Speaker
We're going to have a good vibe right now in the van. And that would always resonate and create a good energy so that when we arrive, we could be exhausted and hungry. But we're laughing. Even listening to podcasts, even listening to humorous stuff and stuff that's not too heavy and dark and not watching dark serial shows and stuff like that.
00:41:40
Speaker
making sure to be present, which I know that sounds that's kind of vague. I don't know if that's like a method. But if you're traveling, you know, not not being and granted, I don't have kids. I don't have a wife and like a core at home. So this is a is absolutely a privileged thing for me to be able to do. But just speaking personally, I don't
00:42:04
Speaker
I would make sure to not be worried too much about what was going on at home and caught up because I'm not there. And usually there's not a lot I can do about, you know, I can be aware, but not getting caught up in some drama that's happening at home. Yeah.
00:42:22
Speaker
um unless you know if there's like a flood that takes over the city or something you know things like that obviously you got to be aware and you got it and you know it's like guys i gotta go but but uh little moments a moment dramas uh you know i found for me that extends into
00:42:40
Speaker
especially with the current state of affairs, politics. Oh, absolutely. I just try to, I have a force field around me. You have to. You know, and I try to really... Because it's so much. Not get engaged in the conversations that people are having too much about that, unless it's a really substantive debate, or we're talking about ideas, but when it's just a lot of just...
00:43:01
Speaker
negativity and complaining. I'm just trying to separate myself from that whole vibe and just try to keep it positive. I want to discuss ideas. I want to discuss concepts on how we can improve our situation, but I don't want to sit around and bitch about this and that and the state of our country and how
00:43:21
Speaker
far we've gone off course. It's like there is a place for that and there is a discourse and there's certain people I will listen to and that I want to listen to and I respect and there's a forum for that but it has taken on epic proportions in terms of the amount of headspace people are giving that. So I think that's an important thing too on tour is
00:43:44
Speaker
in terms of staying positive, there is the element of kind of being in the moment in terms of your family or in terms of relationship issues. And then there's also the thing that's bubbling on the surface so much right now of just current events and trying to keep for me, I found I'm just like keeping that out. Yeah, that's a great point. Because it's easy for that, especially as a group and you know,
00:44:06
Speaker
oh did you hear what happened today or did you hear what this dude said or whatever and there's a lot of that and they're not wrong like to complain about that but to me it comes down to like education is a huge part of it if you feel like and by that I mean are you teaching somebody something are you learning from someone by this conversation or are you just
00:44:30
Speaker
It's just a venting thing. And there might be something to be learned by a situation that comes up, but you're never going to get there if you're just there to be pissed and negative about it. But that's easy. It's easier said than done because it's a lot to be upset about. Yeah. But like you said, you kind of have to draw that line. You have to recognize that moment where, you know what, this is it's not helping anyone. And
00:44:54
Speaker
I'm more interested in solutions and and in exchanging ideas and to me you can learn a lot. Maybe that headline could be a catalyst for a broader conversation that you can have but if it's not that and it's just
00:45:09
Speaker
It's just, oh, look at how awful and it's just a gossip column. Then you're not, nobody's gaining anything from it and it's taken up bandwidth and it's taken up time. You could be thinking about music and about positive solutions and about being in the moment and meeting people around you. If you're in a different town, like talk to people, you know, don't just sit there in a bubble and complain about these problems you saw on Fox news. Like that, that's a very small sliver of reality. Right.
00:45:39
Speaker
And when you go out and engage with people and you see how they live day to day, you get a different sense. You actually, I find, get a lot more hope. You get a lot more truth from those kinds of interactions with people than you do from looking at the news and looking at Twitter and all of that. And there's a place for that. But like you said, you kind of have to draw that line on negative energy.
00:46:02
Speaker
in order to keep yourself on a positive track and on a constructive track. It's like a waste of energy. There's probably people out there that feed off that maybe and it somehow fuels them to be the best they can. Sure. They say that about reality TV where you feel bad about yourself and then you look at reality TV and that makes you go, oh well, at least I'm not that.
00:46:28
Speaker
Or maybe that's not exactly what you're saying, but it provides people with a little spark to do better and to not sink that low. That's okay, but to me, I don't need that. And people who are really grounded, I don't think need that to lean on to better themselves.
00:46:48
Speaker
And it does really connect with not letting your, like you said, your bandwidth being caught up with too many other things, which then in turn creates a more positive experience on stage. Exactly. And the fans feel that. Fans feel it, your bandmates feel it, connecting with people and not letting your mind wander and just being totally connected.
00:47:12
Speaker
Yeah, and people respond to that. Fans respond to that, musicians respond to that, and that leaves openness, really, because the negative energy clinches, you know, it closes people off.
Music, Positivity, and Social Issues
00:47:30
Speaker
And even if you might be right about the thing you're being negative about, it's the energy you're putting out. It doesn't leave room for any openness or exchange of ideas. And then the audience doesn't respond with positivity.
00:47:46
Speaker
And I noticed that, I mean, we're here as musicians, we're here to give hope, we're here to express, yeah, like you look at hip-hop, like that's a form of expression that, yeah, you express anger at a situation, you illuminate the truths of a society that is not all good.
00:48:04
Speaker
But ultimately the underlying message is positivity and self-empowerment and spiritual empowerment and upliftment. And that has to be the message, otherwise you're perpetuating the problem. And that's the headspace that I think musicians and creators have to operate in.
00:48:24
Speaker
you know in order to like fulfill their role and and so whatever you got to do to help you with that you know and and food i think is a big part of it it's a part of the whole picture but it's it's all intersectional like you can't really talk about food without talking about money without talking about race without talking about gender and history and you know
00:48:48
Speaker
all these issues and the environment and everything, it's all connected in a holistic approach.
Musical Journey and Career Reflections
00:48:57
Speaker
It really is. Yeah. A holistic approach, a holistic mentality of understanding how all these things intersect. Yeah. It's an ecosystem. Food can teach a lot if you look into how food is made, how it's produced and grown and follow the
00:49:18
Speaker
follow it from the seed to the plate, as it were. You can learn about how everything interacts. You learn about how the environment is important, all the different elements, the quality of life of the plant, the quality of life of you eating it, and the economic factors and all that. The way that it finds its way to you, you can really
00:49:44
Speaker
get a microcosm of our whole society if you were so inclined. Yeah, and is there certain sources that you pull from or that you'd recommend other people to paint that picture of the connectedness? That's a good question. That is a very good question. I can't think of anything specific. To me, it's just been a long journey. You just kind of research. I mean, we all have the internet. Yeah.
00:50:08
Speaker
There's a lot you can look up and there's a lot of different sites. I mean, but I don't have any specific ones. I actually recommend reading as much as possible. Yeah. Because if you rely on one source that, you know, that can be narrow.
00:50:26
Speaker
So you're kind of in a cool spot right now. I don't know if it's a hiatus or however you frame what's happening with London Souls. So you guys had a long run there with London Souls. Oh yeah, we've been for 12 years. 12 years. Yeah, yeah. How did it start? It started Tash and I and a buddy of mine, Tom Cumming, who I grew up with.
00:50:46
Speaker
Great guitar player. I introduced the two of them and they were both the best guitarists that I had ever played with. I mean, as a 16 year old, which didn't say much, but I was like, these guys have to meet. And so they wanted to start a band and they wanted me to play drums. And that's kind of how it started.
00:51:04
Speaker
We were called Pharmacy. And then we brought on a bass player, Kyoshi Matsuyama, and then we were four-piece for a little while, and then Tom ended up leaving, so then it was me, Tash, and Kyoshi as a trio for three years, I think. And then Kyoshi left, and then Tash and I basically made a record as a duo for
00:51:27
Speaker
playing all the instruments and we hired a bass player, Stu Mahan, to tour with us and then eventually
00:51:36
Speaker
decided to go on as a duo, decided to tour just guitar and drums and just fill it in. And that was the last three years, which was amazing. It was. I love it. But we grew to a point and did a lot. And it sort of stopped growing, in a sense, as anything does after a certain period of time. Yeah. And so we moved in other directions and trying different things. And we're still tight.
00:52:06
Speaker
It wasn't a personal thing. Yeah. And so, you know, and I've always, I've always played with it. We've always like played with other people and other bands and been, I've been involved in the New York, especially Brooklyn music community for a while. Yeah. So.
00:52:24
Speaker
You know, I've joined up with some other projects, just started playing with Sincane, which is a really cool band. It's positive music. Speaking of, you know, positive energy, they're doing great stuff. So I'm excited to see what comes of that. How's that going? It's going great. Yeah. They're so good to work with. They're fun. It's really a cool, it's an interactive process. It's, um,
00:52:49
Speaker
It's very democratic, it's very open, and it's super diverse. All the different musical influences that are contributing to it are from all over the world. Ahmed is Sudanese and Elena is in it. She's having played with Easy Star All-Stars and just a badass reggae keyboardist and human being.
00:53:15
Speaker
And Johnny is like amazing. He plays like Western Swing, but can shred on the distorted guitar and stuff. And Ish is great. He plays a lot of reggae. They're all coming from different musical and cultural backgrounds and coming together to make music that is really... I mean, some people have a hard time wrapping their head around it. They don't know what it is. Yeah.
00:53:42
Speaker
To me, it's just like soul music. It's in the purest sense influenced by all the things that make music great. But it's very rooted in East African and West African funk and all of that. And so I feel like it's really special.
00:54:01
Speaker
It's kind of a special group of musicians. And I'm excited to see where it
Advice for Aspiring Musicians
00:54:06
Speaker
goes. We're working on the next record over the summer. So I'm excited to get into the recording and all that. And I think it's gonna grow even more. It's gonna be cool.
00:54:41
Speaker
As you look at your career and what you've learned as a touring musician in terms of drumming but also as an overall musician and then just as an overall person and your consciousness about health and diet, what advice would you give to a young 16-year-old version of yourself that's coming up right now? Hmm, what advice? Wow, that's a tough one. I feel like, you know, I have to think about that because
00:55:13
Speaker
It's hard to narrow it down. Looking back at young musicians, I feel like building your relationships is probably the most important thing and being honest about what you're in it for.
00:55:33
Speaker
You know, not trying to use people and manipulate people. A lot of people succeed that way as far as financial success. But if you stay true to music and the people you're making the music with, you will always learn and benefit and grow even if you make mistakes.
00:55:52
Speaker
as opposed to like really the mistake of lying and being dishonest with yourself and with the musicians you're making music with, that you kinda, it's harder to recover from that. And so I don't know, I would say like, just stay true to what you're really in it for and outline that from the jump.
00:56:18
Speaker
Like don't, if you're in it for money, then just be clear about that. Just go for it. Like do what you gotta do, but like don't try to make, don't act like it's about music, you know? And if you're in it for music, don't bitch and complain about not making money. Cause that's all part of it, you know? And, but you know, with, with relation to health and food and all that, to me, it's, it's all part of it.
00:56:47
Speaker
And if you take care of yourself, you're just going to be clearer and last longer and have stronger relationships because you're in a clear state of mind when you form them. And so it's all part of the bigger process of growing as a person, as music is. So it's a deep well. But, you know, honesty, I feel like is
00:57:10
Speaker
maybe the advice I would give. If I could single out anything, but it's hard for me to do that. That's so true that all of us when we're younger and there's so much ahead and we're meeting so many new people all the time, it is
00:57:29
Speaker
you can fall into that trap of not necessarily valuing the relationships that you have or the relationships that you're making or the people that you're meeting and just, oh, look, there's so many people in public. I'm meeting them every day. I'm on tour or whatever. I'm playing with so many amazing people. But as you get older, you realize that the relationships that you've created, how long they last and
00:57:54
Speaker
if you treat people right and you respect those relationships, how much they'll continue to grow. Absolutely. And they come back and help you. Yeah. When you form those relationships, you might be down and out in a couple of years. And that person that you were kind to coming up is the one that bails you out. Yeah. And you never know. And those relationships are hugely important. And don't burn bridges. And don't be selfish.
00:58:20
Speaker
People use people all the time and manipulate people and they make friends with someone just because they got a lot of money or they got connections. And then the minute that money goes away, you're like, well, they're not actually my friends, so I guess I'm just going to split. People remember that.
00:58:39
Speaker
So and that comes back to bite you that's like life is short, but it's not that short It'll come back and and serve you if you're not good So true. Yeah I do do are you type person that thinks about goals in their life? Do you make goals long-term short-term goals? Do you sort of just roll with it day by day and think about more living in the presenters or certain things that you're working towards whether it's on a technical level of drumming or technique or on a more
Career Evolution and Future Possibilities
00:59:10
Speaker
I think goals are something I got to work on. I was never very good at them. I think I was good at short-term goals. I could say that by the end of the year I would like this. And usually I could get it. I have yearly goals. But long-term career goals, you know, I'm not so good at that. I've just seen so many unpredictable things happen that it's hard for me to trust.
00:59:31
Speaker
But that comes down to self-trust. So it's really, it's my own issue that it's a day-to-day I'm working on, trying to figure out, all right, if I want this, I got to set a goal, five years, 10 years, whatever. And even if the course, the path leads other ways, like at least I'm guided by that.
00:59:54
Speaker
I've had goals and some of them fell through because I was depending on other people, but that's something I'm working on. Yeah, it's an interesting thing with goals.
01:00:06
Speaker
is staying dedicated and true to your intention, but also having a malleability to accept things are changing and maybe this is the better look rather than just blindly putting blinders on and just charging ahead. So it's an interesting... Yeah, you gotta leave room for your goals to evolve with you. They might change. Right, even with London souls accepting
01:00:33
Speaker
that maybe for the time being, things have run their course and you need to let that breathe. That was probably a hard realization to come to. That was the hardest decision I was ever faced with. Definitely. Hands down. I've been in a lot of relationships and that was definitely a hard one. But I also look at what we've done and I'm super proud of it.
01:00:56
Speaker
And I feel like with that group, I mean, I did set goals. I wanted to tour Europe. I wanted to make records that were, and this might seem like a simple goal, but make a record I was really proud of, which is hard to do. Because when you're making a record, there's all sorts of other factors.
01:01:18
Speaker
cooks in the kitchen, there's other influences, there's the people paying for it, you gotta please and blah, blah, blah. And it's hard to not compromise what you really set out to do. And I feel like we made two records that we did not compromise an inch on.
01:01:34
Speaker
And that was a goal, like that was something driving me and like we fought for that. And to me, that's, they're going to last, you know, in 10 years, I'm still going to be proud of them. So that's more than a lot of people have done. That's more than maybe I thought I could even do.
01:01:49
Speaker
And so and then I just look at our touring career and I look at all the people we've met and all the people we've played with and earned the respect of as musicians, people we look up to and share the stage with. And that to me is like a lifetime accomplishment. So it made it a little bit easier for me to be able to move on because I felt like it like we had we had achieved
01:02:16
Speaker
some things it wasn't like we still have so much work to do at least as a as a personal musician and the things I wanted to accomplish obviously we could have continued growing we could have you know got bigger and bigger and this and that but but um I'm really proud of what we were able to do and that helped me to to like be able to move on from it launch
01:02:38
Speaker
Yeah. Watch the next. Exactly. And it gives me energy in the next thing that I'm doing. And it's, and you never know, like nothing's final and Tash, you know, I still love the dude and we still, we're still tight. So that maybe another circumstance will bring us together to make music. Yeah.
Contact Information and Closing Remarks
01:02:57
Speaker
And like, that's where it all started. And so I could see it coming back to that.
01:03:02
Speaker
because he's such a talented musician and, you know, he's one of a kind. And what we had together is like really special. I don't know anyone else that was doing that. Right. Really. So we'll see where that goes. But, you know, for now, it's on to other things. Well, Chris, thanks so much for doing this, man.
01:03:20
Speaker
Thanks for having me. Real quick, where, just for the listeners, where can they find you? Maybe you could just tell us some, I'll post them, but also just some places where they can find you. Oh sure, yeah. So, I mean, I just have a site. It's chrissthillaire.com. I don't have any social media and stuff. I'm super out of the loop, but it's all the info's on there and calendar and everything. And the organization is the Sound Mind Collective.
01:03:48
Speaker
And that is thesoundmindcollective.org. And you can see all our events and workshops and stuff we're working on there. Awesome, thanks so much for coming through on that. Absolutely, thanks, nice chatting with you.
01:04:02
Speaker
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