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TTP #9- Drummer and Animal Rights Activist Tom Garrington on the Power of Questioning the Status Quo as a Musician and Vegan Advocate
11 Plays6 years ago
Tom Garrington is not only a great drummer but also a committed vegan, animal rights activist and outspoken advocate for the plant-based movement. In this conversation:
- The "Best Speech You'll Ever Hear" and the moment where Tom's life changed direction and he became a strict vegan
- How Tom has been able to positively affect so many others and help them make the transition to a vegan diet
- The concept of voting with your dollar and the power we possess as consumers
- Developing the skills to face adversary and see difficult moments as oppurtunities for growth
- Specific documentaries, Vlogs, websites, activists and books that have been influential in Tom's path to veganism
- How important keeping an open mind has been in Tom's success as a musician and in his learning about the impacts of veganism
Please take a moment to rate and review the podcast in iTunes and visit www.tourganic.com for more info on this episode and living healthy on the road
Tourganic Podcast Theme song 'The Path' written by David Bailis and this episode's musical interludes by Tom Garrington Quartet and Justin Piper (Tom Garrington on Drums)
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Transcript
Introduction and Growth Mindset
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the torganic power gap.
00:00:05
Speaker
things go down, and it's like, you can either look at it as like, oh, poor me, poor me, or you can go, wow, this is a challenging moment, and this is my chance to grow. It's like, you don't go to the weight room to just lift two pound weights all the time. Growth happens during tension, during resistance. Resistance builds strength. And that fundamental notion translates into life, too. It's like, anytime there's a chance for you to face resistance, that's a chance for you to experience growth, if you're willing to do
Touring Musicians and Healthy Lifestyles
00:00:34
Speaker
it.
00:00:34
Speaker
Hello, I am David Bayless, your host. In these conversations, I speak with touring musicians about how they live a healthy lifestyle. While many of the episodes are about how and why my guests live a plant-based vegan diet on the road, the content of these conversations has a diverse and holistic approach to focus on health of mind, body, and spirit. My goal is that this podcast will give you a window into their life and offer you some insight that will inspire you.
00:00:59
Speaker
Please let me know what you think by commenting and rating the show in iTunes. My guest this week is drummer and animal rights activist, Tom Garrington. Tom's an inspiring guy to be around and his passion for veganism is from the heart. It's evident from this conversation that Tom has really researched and done his homework on the positive impacts of a plant-based diet.
Tom Garrington's Vegan Journey
00:01:18
Speaker
I really appreciate how he connects his questioning of authority and not just accepting the status quo as motivating factors in his success as a musician and also in his discovering the benefits of a vegan lifestyle.
00:01:30
Speaker
We start this episode talking about how Tom has been able to successfully educate others on why he went plant-based, and how he has been able to help so many of his family and friends into switching to a vegan way of life. I had Jorscan on, and then my last guest was Eric Bloom, now known as Eric Benny Bloom. And both of them cited you as the main inspiration for them
00:01:57
Speaker
of going vegan and living this plant-based life. And I was like, oh, that's cool. That's amazing. Tom Garrington, he's all up. Who is this guy? Who is this guy? And so yeah, when I was coming to Boston, I was like, I need to reach out. OK, I must have to reach out to Tom because clearly Tom was on this path and was able to influence people. And part of what I tried to get to with Jordan and Eric was Tom's talking to a lot of people.
00:02:25
Speaker
Not everyone Tom talks to goes vegan, so what inside of you clicked, you know? And that's kind of what I'm interested in also for your path. What was some of the entry points that got you on this path in your life? I had a girlfriend who she was vegetarian and she had told me, maybe you should consider going vegetarian. You should try cutting out meat. And at the time it was like, that's crazy. You know, I can't even imagine.
00:02:51
Speaker
And she's like, well, just give it a try. So I ended up giving it a try. And I was vegetarian from that point on for a few years.
00:02:58
Speaker
No rhyme or reason for it, just she was doing it, I decided to do it too. I felt good and I kept doing it,
Commitment to Veganism and Resistance as Growth
00:03:05
Speaker
but then I sort of fell off the wagon with that a little bit. The real turning point, the real turning point for me, I was living in New York City and I watched a video on YouTube called The Greatest Speech You'll Ever Hear. Gary Yourofsky. Gary Yourofsky, who
00:03:23
Speaker
You know ended up being a friend of mine down the line and he's he's just an amazing he's an amazing person and I watched that video and I remember sitting in my room and Watching it on my laptop and I had my speakers on I was just like greatest speech ever. What is this? I had no I I had no idea what it was I wasn't eating healthy at the time. I wasn't doing anything. I just watched this speech and I
00:03:47
Speaker
I just remember at the end of the speech, I was just like, appalled. It was like, that's it. I was like, I cannot do this. I'm like you, you mentioned earlier about how the pendulum swings like this. It's like, when I make a decision to do something, it's done. And after I saw this video, I said, okay, now that I know this information, now that I know what's really happening,
00:04:11
Speaker
I can't support that anymore. And if you can crystallize it, like what messages stuck with you and really impacted you most from that YouTube video that forced you to make this change? Seeing what happens to animals.
00:04:36
Speaker
really seeing it. He does a couple short clips of what goes on inside of slaughterhouses, what happens to dairy cows, what happens to chickens and their eggs, what happens to baby chicks when they go down the grinder. You know that stuff's going on, but you don't realize until you see it, until you experience it, how
00:05:05
Speaker
terrible how awful it is. I remember in college, I went to the University of Minnesota Twin Cities, they had PETA come and they were set up. They were set up out in some parking lot and they had all these
00:05:24
Speaker
all these videos that they were trying to show people and they had demonstrations and things. And I remember just kind of looking the other way. I was just like, I don't really wanna see that. I was just like, I don't wanna see that. That's disgusting. But sitting
Consumer Choices and Industry Change
00:05:40
Speaker
there and being present and actually being forced to watch it just made me, I don't know, it was just like,
00:05:51
Speaker
It just changed everything for me. I grew up in Wisconsin. There's dairy cows everywhere there. I've seen dairy cows. We've taken tours when we were in school and we've seen them and never thought anything of it. It's like after a while you just forget.
00:06:07
Speaker
where the food comes from. You just think it's, Oh, it's just shows up in the supermarket. I don't know. And just seeing it like that just really, it made it real for me. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's the way food is packaged. It's not an accident that, uh, consumers have a disconnect of the origins of food. It's
00:06:27
Speaker
It's a marketing campaign because companies that are making these products are producing these products. They know that innately most humans care about animals. They don't want to think about
00:06:43
Speaker
that inhumane treatment and suffering that went on so they can have their dinner. So that concept is built into the marketing of these products. And most people have that disconnect because it's hard to get past that. And you watch this video, and let's go back into that moment. And you're like, OK, this is a turning point, as you said. There's kind of a point of no return here. And what was the next step for you? No more.
00:07:14
Speaker
no more consumption of animal products and not putting my money towards it, most importantly. I just decided that I am powerful as a consumer. You know, you vote with your dollar and I thought,
00:07:32
Speaker
Most importantly, I'm not gonna support these companies. I'm not gonna invest in their businesses by spending my money on their products. So I said, I'm not gonna buy any more animal products. And that wasn't just with food, that's also with shoes, that's with belts, anything. I'm gonna do everything I can to not contribute to this because I think it's wrong. The system is wrong.
00:08:02
Speaker
cut out animal products from my diet and I felt like the veil was lifted off. It felt all cloudy and then I just felt amazing. And it was like, so I don't need it for my physical self and I don't need to wear it.
00:08:21
Speaker
I don't need it, so that's it. Yeah, and I think that's a great thing that a lot of people that have gone vegan, when you make that realization that you don't need it, that's a heavy realization, because there's a lot of forces, and as we're coming up in life, it's like, you need meat. That's just like, that's what we learn, like you need your meat, you need your protein, you need your. Especially as guys. Yeah, like that's just like built into our psyche and society. When you make that jump, and then you,
00:08:48
Speaker
live for a little bit and not only am I
Health Benefits vs. Ethical Motivations
00:08:51
Speaker
like still alive, I'm feeling better. That's an important moment. Okay, I can do this. I've done it. And so just to keep focusing on that moment. So you said the why, right? And you said in terms of focusing your money and not supporting those industries, which is so key, but I'm also interested in the how.
00:09:13
Speaker
How did you make that jump to figure it out? What was your next step? Was there other people around that you used as resources? Was it books, videos? What was the next step there? Well, knowledge is power, Dave. You know, it was easy because for me, once I made that decision to do it, I was going to stop at nothing to do it. It was just, there was no excuses. Like once you get the information,
00:09:43
Speaker
It's time to do something about it. It's like I was disconnected for so long. I literally just had no idea. It's like you see the hamburger in the store, you see whatever. You just don't make the connection. I made the connection and I said, you know what? That's it. I have some new information. Some new information has come to light and I'm gonna take this information. I'm gonna act on it. It was as simple as that.
00:10:10
Speaker
it just wasn't hard for me because I had made up my mind to do it. And this is a big topic because I know you probably do when you talk to people, you get people like, oh, I can't do it because of this or I can't, you know, there's a lot of excuses.
00:10:25
Speaker
And that's what they are. They're excuses at the end of the day. They're excuses because people don't really want to do it. They haven't made the connection yet. They haven't made the connection and therefore they haven't made the commitment. Because if you don't make the connection, you don't have anything substantial to act on.
00:10:49
Speaker
I, at that point, even now, I mean, I would just go without eating. If there was a meal where it was like, there's nothing for me to eat here, I don't feel like, oh man, what am I going to do? I'm one meal. I'm not going to be able to eat. Oh no, like, you know, I'm not going to die. You know, it's like, I'm just not going to eat. I'm going to take this as an opportunity to fast. You know, I looked at every, every situation as an opportunity for growth, whether there was, um, whether there was a substantial amount of food around or no amount of food around, like,
00:11:19
Speaker
It was just an opportunity for me to grow, you know? And so that's, there was just no excuses at that point. And I know a lot of people, they love to say, well, I can't do it because of this or my parents don't support it or blah, blah, blah. There's, there's a number of excuses, you know? And it's all just excuses at the end of the day.
00:11:38
Speaker
looking at situations that could be negative and seeing them as opportunities for growth. That's a really important mind state in life that goes beyond food, right? So is that something that you feel like you had that
00:11:58
Speaker
mind state prior to this and then you applied it to the food thing? Or is that something that you've kind of learned through that? And then, so like the fact that you say no, I'm wondering, is that a skill that you've been able to, to use a musical term, like transpose kind of into other facets of your life? Lately, yes. Lately, yes. But it's taken me a long time to learn that because I like, I played the victim for so long, but
00:12:28
Speaker
I mean, to put this back into like animal terms, it's like animals have been victims, animals have been the victims for so long, you know what I mean? And I said, I'm just not gonna play the victim anymore, you know? It's like bad things happen, you know, things go down. And it's like, you can either look at it as,
00:12:51
Speaker
You can either look at it as like, oh, poor me, poor me, or you can go, wow, this is a challenging moment, and this is my chance to grow. It's like, you don't go to the weight room to just lift two pound weights all the time. Growth happens during tension, during resistance. Resistance builds strength. That fundamental notion translates into life too. It's like, anytime there's a chance for you to face resistance, that's a chance for you to experience growth, if you're willing to do it.
00:13:20
Speaker
I guess at the time when I watched that video, I didn't really feel like I had that in me. So I would say
Adapting to Challenges in Music and Life
00:13:30
Speaker
no, but over time, and I've learned a lot over the last however many years I've been doing this, it's it really, it takes you to a whole nother level. It gets you thinking about a lot of different things, you know? Yeah. I mean, cause I think that that concept of, of,
00:13:48
Speaker
taking negative situations and trying to learn from them and grow and become a better person from challenging situations. It's so important in every facet of my life. And just as musician to musician, certainly on tour, whether it's just difficulties with gear and stuff failing on the gig or musical stuff that comes up when you're playing and someone does something that, oh, you're feeling like, oh, it should go this way.
00:14:18
Speaker
Once you're on stage, there is an element of democracy, I think, in most bands, even if one guy wants to be like, I'm leading everything at all times. Like, hey, if this singer guy, he might be the band leader, but if that drummer decides to stop playing,
00:14:37
Speaker
The drummer is the leader. You know what I mean? Everyone has say as to what's happening, even if one guy is officially the musical director. There is a flow going on, so we're all...
00:14:50
Speaker
even no matter what band, you're all part of this thing and things can happen that you might not think was the right move and fighting it is going to be the worst thing that could happen. Yeah, exactly. I remember a long time ago, the great jazz drummer Art Blakey, he said, I don't care what ride symbol it is, give me it and I'll make it sound good. I mean, that's not a direct quote, but it's
00:15:14
Speaker
That blew my mind. I was just like, wow, really? You're going to take this horrible ride cymbal and make it swing and sound good? You bet your ass. Can I swear? You bet your ass. You bet your ass he's going to make that sound good. And that just stuck with me. It's like, OK. So if I get a terrible instrument, quote unquote terrible instrument, I'm going to figure out what's good about it. I'm going to caress it. I'm going to tune it a little bit. I'm going to try to maybe put a little tape on it if I need to. I'm going to do whatever it takes to get the best sound I can get out of it.
00:15:44
Speaker
Or you can just sit back and go, well, this thing sounds terrible, so therefore I sound terrible, so now I'm just going to be grumpy. And I think another extension of that is like, I heard a story that someone was like, after John Scofield was playing, like you're telling the drum story, I say the guitar story, and like someone was like, dude, that guitar is so amazing. It sounds incredible. Like what pickups? He's like, oh, yeah. Here, you take it, you play it. How does it sound?
00:16:10
Speaker
I can imagine. You know what I mean? And it's like there's these instruments and there's these tools we use, but kind of having full confidence in what's inside us. We have control. It's still that same concept of we have control. Yeah, there's different tools. And some might be more modern or more nuanced in a certain way. But at the end of the day,
Community and Accessibility in Veganism
00:16:31
Speaker
we have the tools to execute what we want to do. We have control over what we're doing in our lives. We do.
00:17:12
Speaker
Yeah, I just wanted to touch on what you just said, you know, you're just saying, you know, how lucky we are. And yeah, we are lucky. We're so lucky. And that's why, that's another reason that I do this, you know, it's...
00:17:28
Speaker
It's our job when we're thriving, when things are going well, to push it forward, to push things forward, to make the right decisions for the future. And I know a lot of people, I hear a lot of people saying, you know, like being vegan is just for like rich snobby people and, or it's just for people who are well to do or well off. And that's, that, that blows my mind. You know, to me, to me, it's like, if,
00:17:54
Speaker
If you are, if you are quote unquote well off or well to do, you know, then you should be doing everything you can to like make the world a better place and to try and try and spread the love. I mean,
00:18:09
Speaker
I don't know Bill Gates, but I know he donates most of his money. He realizes that. A lot of people that are well off, they realize that and they put their money towards things that matter to them, but we all can do that. So I wanted to touch on that because I think that's really important. And another facet of this is realizing that once you figure out, wow, I am in a good place, I'm not a victim, I'm actually a victim.
00:18:34
Speaker
I'm actually good. Now, what am I going to do to make things even better? That's the attitude to take, not the attitude of, oh, poor me, and always finding something wrong, or somebody cut me off on the highway, and just finding reasons to be upset. I mean, yeah, that stuff is going to happen.
00:18:54
Speaker
I think making the world a better place is important when you are, and I'm by no means, I'm not rich, I'm just another musician, but this is something anybody can do. This is something anybody can do. To create positive change. Yeah, and vote with your dollar. Yeah, and it's funny, actually, the whole vote with your dollar thing,
00:19:20
Speaker
I was having this discussion yesterday, and I'm curious what you think, because I'm respectful of people's decisions. This isn't an attack on anyone. But I was listening to someone talk, and they were like, oh, so your Burger King now has a vegetarian or a vegan whopper. And they were saying how they went to Burger King and got the vegetarian or vegan whopper. And I was just like, great. I was like, for me, I was like, no. You didn't like it? No.
00:19:51
Speaker
No, I'm like, no, like, how can you give money to Burger King? Like, no, like, to me, that's not, and again, I wanna just backpedal, not be judgmental guy here. This is not to attack anyone, but it's more on a conceptual discussion, because I like the concept of vote with your dollar. Like, that's an important idea. And that's why I bring this up, because I don't think there's a right answer here, but my instinct was like,
00:20:20
Speaker
Nah, you shouldn't give money to Burger King. If you believe in living a plant-based diet and trying to minimize cruelty to animals and being a part of a positive change in this world, there's nothing at Burger King that's there for you.
00:20:47
Speaker
Well, I would argue that
00:20:54
Speaker
spending your money on a plant-based option at a place like Burger King is actually incredibly effective. I mean, imagine if millions and millions, billions of people served at McDonald's were all getting veggie burgers. I mean, now the game's changed, isn't it? But if nobody goes over there and buys the veggie burger, they're just going to keep going back and selling the same old animal cruelty they've been selling for so long.
00:21:19
Speaker
So if you go over there and you support a veggie burger and the next person and the next person and the next person, well now they're going to have to expand the menu. Now all of a sudden they have a veggie burger menu. Now all of a sudden they have a vegan menu. But Tom, this isn't people that were already customers of Burger King.
00:21:37
Speaker
That's fine. These, they're getting new customers. Good, that's fine.
Activism and Realistic Industry Change
00:21:41
Speaker
When I was hanging out with, I was hanging out with Gary Yourofsky. I went to go see him speak a number of times and, you know, just hanging out, just to see. And it was very, very interesting. We stopped, he heard there was a veggie burger at White Castle. And he's like, I gotta try this veggie burger at White Castle. And I was just like, really? I was like,
00:22:06
Speaker
White Castle? I was like, I wouldn't step foot into a White Castle. That place is disgusting to me. He's like, nah, man, come on, let's go. I was like, okay, let's check it out. And we went and they were sold out of the veggie burgers. They didn't even have them because they sold so fast. I'm like, no, no, we don't have any more right now. We're gonna get some more in. And we were really bummed, but here's a guy who's the most stalwart animal rights activist and
00:22:32
Speaker
vote with your dollar person I know and he was willing to go to White Castle and buy a veggie burger. Yeah. And, and I, again, like I don't want to attack this guy or attack anyone, but especially someone who is putting themselves out there as sort of a face for the movement. Like I have a problem with that. Okay. Just to be honest, like I have a problem with that. Like, and it's beyond just like animal cruelty. It's like supporting like processed food, like what those companies are doing to America and the world.
00:23:01
Speaker
is really harmful in my opinion. And we need to get people away from there and into eating whole food plant based diet, not eating processed versions of healthy foods. Like, okay, people, if there's people that are going there and that's the only options they have, I'm really glad. I'm really glad that those options are there for people that they have salads and McDonald's. Like, I'm happy for people. But I think for people, especially that are like,
00:23:33
Speaker
proponents in public. They need to have a higher sense of responsibility and accountability to not support.
00:23:43
Speaker
fast the fast food industry like I'm I'm I'm really like I'm a guy who like number one for me is like the farmers market and number two is like localized places and I'm on the road so I support Whole Foods like like I go to Whole Foods like there's no way around it but if I can go to like a local health food store or co-op I will so it's like when I think about my
00:24:04
Speaker
the chain of places that I want to support with my dollar. I'm going maximum localized first, if possible, and really trying to build from there. And honestly, I'm dedicated to never supporting fast food. That's great.
00:24:21
Speaker
Because I see corporate America and the fast food industry and processed foods, these things are all like a waterfall that are all together cascading, pushing America back in a path that we need to be walking up forward.
00:24:40
Speaker
Right? So for me to say like, Oh, I'll pick and choose that. But no, no, for me. And you know, I just almost brought it up because I was having this conversation yesterday and you made this really, you know, prescient point, I think a great point about voting for your dollar. So it was just on my mind. And I was
00:24:58
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I mean, but you and me are, we're a minority of people. There, there are a bunch of us out there, but there's not a ton, you know, where the pendulum swings and we can all do that. But I think, you know, change
00:25:16
Speaker
just like in politics in corporate America. I mean, these corporations aren't going anywhere anytime soon. And unless there's a mass awakening of people, like they're all not going to stop going to these places. So.
00:25:30
Speaker
If you don't want to support fast food, that's totally cool. And I am more on your wavelength than on the fast. I don't go to fast food places. I agree with you, but if you're voting for your dollar and you're getting animal cruelty off the plate,
00:25:55
Speaker
I mean, that's a win no matter what. And these companies, they change slowly and they change based on what people ask for. That's capitalism. And these people, they get together and they talk about what the trends are and they try to predict it and they go, okay.
00:26:13
Speaker
Well, this is being asked about every time one of our restaurant opens. You've got to start offering this. And if they don't adapt, they're going to go away. I mean, look at, have you been to Veggie Grill yet?
00:26:27
Speaker
in California. They're all over. Yeah. Oh yeah. I have. I have. I've been to those. Yeah. Those are blowing up. They're blowing up. And it's because people are asking for that stuff and that there's always going to be fast food. There's always going to be people, people love their junk food. And I honestly don't care if you want to eat junk. That's like, that's your
00:26:49
Speaker
that's your prerogative, that's your right. You're not harming anybody by doing that. And that's why I think it's important to talk about, when you talk about like the animal rights side of things and the health side of things, they're different conversations from me personally, you know? Like I can't, yeah, I mean, it would be great if everybody was eating healthy. I think we would thrive as a country. I mean, we have so much to offer as a country. And I think people are just,
00:27:18
Speaker
It's like, like you said, like capitalism is, is, is a waterfall that's holding people down. It's like we're, we're not giving our best self because we're not feeding our bodies what they need. So like people are suffering. People are dying of heart disease, diabetes, cancer. Like a lot of these diseases are.
00:27:38
Speaker
solvable with diet, preventable preventable with diet, you know, and people are just getting sick. So we're not putting our best foot forward as a people and as a country. So, you know, the health conversation and the animal rights conversation
00:27:56
Speaker
is different to me. So that's why I... We're talking about two different... You're talking about the health side of things and I'm talking about whatever it takes to get animals off the plate for me is the most important thing. And it's different and I appreciate people that are coming at it all in from one perspective.
00:28:17
Speaker
I appreciate what everyone's doing, but I also think that that just ends up drawing more lines sometimes. There's like, oh, I'm the vegan animal rights guy and I'm the vegan bodybuilder guy. Like I just care about that, you know, and I'm the vegan environmentalist, you know, and it's like.
00:28:36
Speaker
Well, it's all those things. I mean, you can call, you can label yourself whatever you want, but labels are, as you know, they're limiting. They're limiting for musicians. No musician loves a label. And people just in general don't love labels. Beyond just like...
00:28:51
Speaker
labeling like it creates divisions and walls.
Personal and Professional Benefits of Veganism
00:28:55
Speaker
Whereas I think seeing it all as one, I guess is my point, is going to be the most positive outcome of this whole thing. If we can see that health of mind and health of body, health of consciousness, health of spirit, these things are all one.
00:29:14
Speaker
True. I agree. But if you're talking about from a health perspective, as far as science goes, there is a lot of science that backs up plant-based eating. I mean, I'm not a scientist. I don't claim to be one. But I also know that there's science that backs up eating small amounts of meat. If you look at the blue zones, which are some of the most healthiest
00:29:37
Speaker
Places on on the planet. I think the only one we have in The United States is Loma Linda, California Okay, you know it's primarily plant-based on all these places but they do eat some meat and there's some of the healthiest people on the planet so
00:29:54
Speaker
you can be healthy and eat meat. And that's not something that I, you know, I'm obviously totally not a proponent of eating that. But if you, if you talk about health, there is going to be a division because I, as an animal rights person, quote unquote, you know, like I don't want to see animals on anybody's plate. But if we're talking about health, I would just be lying if I said that some animal products
00:30:23
Speaker
are gonna hurt you or kill you, you know? It's the amount. So the conversation is, it's naturally going to be different. And I think that's a really good point, Tom. That's an awesome point. And I will just, as an addendum to it, I will say that I think from a plant-based perspective, which connects it, is that you're right in moderation, eating meat,
00:30:52
Speaker
may, like we're not scientists, but may not be the most harmful thing or may not be, you know, incredibly detrimental to your health. But the point I think kind of circling back to what we were talking about a little bit ago is that we realized that you don't need it.
00:31:07
Speaker
right? You don't need it. And you can be a healthy person and reach your full potential. It's not even greater potential by cutting that meat out as a physical health thing. And then you can see how that can spread into your mind.
00:31:51
Speaker
The one thing that is imperative, I think, for athletes, I'm not an athlete, but I know that athletes really value quick recovery time. The faster you can recover, the quicker you can get back out there and work. And I exercise and I go to the gym and I've done weights and I've done all sorts of activities over the years.
00:32:19
Speaker
You can just tell, you just bounce back from things so much faster when you're on a plant-based diet. I mean, to me, it's like night and day. So clarity of body, having that, I mean, it doesn't get much better than that, especially if you're someone who's training or somebody who is an athlete. And depending on how far you want to take it, I mean, you can get
00:32:42
Speaker
And you can get crazy with it. A lot of people are getting into raw foods and eating primarily raw because they realize when you digest food, 60% of your blood is used to digest that food. So a large amount of your blood supply is going towards digestion. Now when you eat animal products, meat,
00:33:09
Speaker
It takes a long time for that stuff to digest. It stays in there a long time. And so what's happening is your body is digesting, digesting, digesting. And if you're eating animal products three times a day, man, you're never not digesting. So you're constantly, your body is using all of this blood.
00:33:33
Speaker
to digest and it's not being used to repair and recover. You can almost use the parallel of our community and what's happening with the government. Like we're diverting resources. Yeah. You know what I mean? Sure. In our body. Yeah. What that does is it takes away energy. You know, I'm an athlete. My energy well just keeps giving and I learned from the plant-based athletes and
00:33:58
Speaker
reading and hearing them speak that it's like their recovery time just as you're saying is so much quicker and I think that also can connect with us as musicians like out there in the world man we're out there touring it's an exhausting lifestyle and
00:34:13
Speaker
It all sort of feeds itself, but if you're working out, you're living the plant-based lifestyle, I find I don't really drink that much on the road. Because I'm feeling good, I know that's gonna affect me the next day. So it all kind of feeds itself, but in essence, that whole thing is just giving me more energy, which is enabling me to perform at my best level when I'm on stage, which is the whole, that's the whole thing.
00:34:39
Speaker
That's the reason you're out there. That's the reason you're out there. If you're dragging yourself down to the point where you're not performing at your best on stage, it's like, man, why am I even doing this? When you're young, you're in a rock and roll band, the tour life is fun, and I get it. But as I've gotten older, I've got a kid at home. I've got a life in New York that is so awesome, my musical community. And being away from that comes at a cost.
00:35:08
Speaker
It does. Every day that I'm away from my situation in New York, it's an investment. I got to make the most out of that investment. I'm certainly not going to do anything to hold myself back. My brother's a bass player. Shout out to Steve. He does it for real on the road. He eats all raw on the road. No way.
00:35:29
Speaker
He plays with a great band called Lo. Okay, I gotta get Steve on the podcast. Oh yeah, he's awesome. He's my bro.
00:35:44
Speaker
He tours all the time and he finds all these great raw restaurants. I think him and shout out to Tom, Herbert's the sound engineer, those guys go around and they try to find the best raw restaurants around and they try to eat really healthy and they try to exercise. So I bring that up only because I notice a trend happening with people like you and people like my brother and Tom.
00:36:12
Speaker
People are not entranced by the old guard, the rock and roll lifestyle. They saw what it did to all those musicians. They saw how they aged. They saw how things went.
00:36:25
Speaker
they realized it wasn't sustainable. And I think you're starting to see a lot of musicians now heading towards like taking care of themselves out on the road and really trying to, you know, feel good and like try to focus on the positive, like focus on giving your best performance on stage. Cause like you said, that's what it's all about. And I think when you do all that other stuff, it takes away like some people
00:36:50
Speaker
Used to think oh, no, it makes the stage that much better because you're out here having all these crazy experiences But it's like man when you're really dialed into the music It doesn't get much better than that like and when everybody's hitting on all cylinders and the whole band is vibing and everybody feels good It doesn't get much better than that I think you're starting to see a trend with people who are touring and musicians in particular who realize like hey, you know I'm gonna like try and
00:37:16
Speaker
and try and do the best I can out here on the road and take care of the music and take care of myself. And I think I support that 110%. I think that's great.
00:37:26
Speaker
It takes initiative. It takes commitment. It takes that extra step, which is sometimes hard to know that you have in you when you're on the road. I like what you're saying. The fact that more people are coming into the spotlight and we're seeing our friends and we're seeing our community and we're seeing musicians on all levels starting to do it, it's inspiring, man. It shows you, oh, if he's doing it, I can do it. Maybe not at that level of
00:37:54
Speaker
Commitment, but I'm gonna do find my own path to that point and just just trying to create little positive change and that's kind of the whole thing actually about this podcast and Torianic in general is just provide that little Light that's like yeah, this can be done. It's being done You know by example by bands of by people that are in tour buses by people that are in vans by people that are in Really big bands and really small bands like you you you can make it happen look beyond
00:38:24
Speaker
your particular circumstance and know that you can make it happen.
Challenges and Commitment on the Road
00:38:28
Speaker
It's within you for sure. I mean, think of, look at all the pop artists that are doing this now. I mean, I just see, it's like, there's new ones every day. I can't even keep track of them. Tons of rappers are doing it. Tons of pop artists are, are, are doing it. So like, even if you get one of these big gigs, you'll have support from the top down. I mean, that's beautiful, man. I love it.
00:39:07
Speaker
You're playing drums all the time and did you notice a change in your playing as you start to live this plant-based diet? You know, it's hard to say because it was also the change was so enveloping like it's so many things were yeah all encompassing so so many things were going on that it's hard to say if my playing
00:39:36
Speaker
Physically changed, but I know you you mentioned this before I'm trying to go back to some of the other things you mentioned clarity of body But also clarity of mind when you cut out specifically I think dairy I I feel like dairy even it over me I think dairy is one of the hardest things on your body. It's like
00:39:54
Speaker
Dairy was meant to make a baby cow turn into the size of a giant refrigerator. You know what I mean? It's like and people are putting this stuff in their body and They don't even realize it half the time. It's not just milk. It's not just cheese. It's also caissons and everything way like if you look at if you read all these labels like man, it's in everything and a lot of people try to make me a meal and be like, yeah, yeah, it's dairy-free and they inevitably get some dairy in there because they just there's it's an
00:40:24
Speaker
Everything and people don't realize that and I feel like it's so hard on the body. It's so inflammatory Yeah, and I feel like especially when you cut dairy out Man, it's like like I mentioned before the veil just gets lifted off and you just get this you just get this clarity of mind and I don't know if it's I Was just talking about this with somebody the other day. I don't know if it's
00:40:46
Speaker
because you just feel good about what you're doing or if it's like a placebo like you just feel good about yourself or you're like cool I'm doing something for the animals like I don't know if it's a clarity of purpose or what but you just get this I don't know I just think when you cut out especially dairy but all animal products you just get this
00:41:03
Speaker
You just get this amazing clarity. And then people start to like notice it about you too. And they're like, wow, you're glowing. I had so many people say that to me. They're like, wow, you're glowing. I was like, who says that about somebody? I had multiple people say that to me. People that don't know each other. You know, like, wow, you're glowing.
00:41:21
Speaker
Really? You know, it's like, and this isn't that far into the into the process, you know, and this isn't just with me. This is, you know, I mean, I've, I've helped all sorts of people pretty much my whole family, you know, my dad is vegan now, and my brothers and my girlfriend and all sorts of people.
00:41:43
Speaker
and they all experience this same thing. Talk about how you have been able to influence people in this positive way. This seems to be a special characteristic you have. Because someone viewed as extra special. It's an extra special characteristic.
00:42:00
Speaker
There's this really fine line of not being the preachy guy and food is a really like it goes down to cultural. It's cultural. It's like goes into your upbringing. There's a lot of like belief systems built into it.
00:42:15
Speaker
And vegans already can have a stigma of being really holier than thou. Of course. Yeah. So how have you effectively been able to influence people without crossing over that line? Because we know right here on the podcast, we have two great guys that you've helped make that change and you just mentioned your family. That's unique. How have you been able to do that?
00:42:36
Speaker
Well, I would say being consistent is number one and using that, that thing that we keep bringing up about ourselves, you know, like that pendulum swinging and being like, okay, I'm just going to do this and that's it. Using that to your advantage and being consistent first of all, because when people see that you're consistent and that you don't waver in what you do, it makes them, it makes it easier for them to, to trust you first of all.
00:43:04
Speaker
because they go, okay, well, this guy's doing it, and there's no compromises. You know, everybody's used to hearing excuses from people. They're used to, oh, I did this, or I did this, or I made a mistake, and oh, I had some of this, or oops, or well, but there's just no, there's no compromise with me on this. And some people might view that as like kind of being bullheaded, but like I view it as,
00:43:31
Speaker
I view it as an asset when it comes time to when people are noticing what you're doing. They're like, wow, that's really cool. Like he's really doing it. And I think that.
00:43:40
Speaker
first and foremost, leading by example and being a good example is number one. And then I think number two is just educating people. Like a lot of people just don't know about a lot of this stuff. And you gotta understand that they don't know it and find a way to reach them where they're at and find a way to communicate the things to them that they need in that moment. And I just think that's just, it takes,
00:44:11
Speaker
clarity of mind and paying attention, paying attention to who's in front of you, you know, not, not looking at your phone, you know, or not, you know, whatever. Just paying attention. That's so right on. And I'm wanting to even take it a step further. Like let's take the example of your dad. So your dad went vegan. Tell me how did that happen? Well, yeah, my dad was a special case. And like I said, paying attention to what they need. I, family is always the toughest and especially the males in the family because they're the,
00:44:42
Speaker
They're just, they've been doing things sometimes 60 plus years. It's hard to change habits like that, but I remember to take it back a little further, my grandmother had diabetes and I was trying to help her get her diet changed. This was before I was vegan, this was before I was anything. I just cared about her.
00:45:08
Speaker
And I was like, Grandma, instead of having that same old bowl of Honey Nut Cheerios with dairy in the morning, why don't you have some oatmeal? She's just like, I haven't had oatmeal since I was a kid. She's like, I won't eat oatmeal.
Influencing Family and Community
00:45:21
Speaker
And I was like, why not? She's just like, I just can't eat oatmeal.
00:45:26
Speaker
Yeah, if you put some berries in it, you know, it'll be really good. Trust me, like you're gonna really like it. And she's like, no, I can't eat it. And she got really mad at me. And so every day I go visit her. And for months, like I'd be telling her the same thing, consistent message, consistent message, like, you should really try this for breakfast. Like this is, this is really good. And then finally, we got to like a deeper conversation where she told me about when she was young, and then
00:45:51
Speaker
you know, 13 kids in the family, you know, like one of those types of situations and they didn't have a lot to go around and they would eat oatmeal for breakfast. And it brought back like kind of these crazy memories of her being young and just not having a lot of food to go around and thinking that oatmeal tastes like sawdust and not having a lot of it. And it just brought up some interesting memories. So I was just like, well, you know, I understand that you're feeling this way, but I was just like, I really think this is gonna,
00:46:21
Speaker
make a difference for you, why don't you give it a try just for a little bit and see what you think. And so she did. So my grandmother in her 80s changed something. It was small, but she changed something. And this had a huge impact on her diabetes. I mean, the proof is in the blood with diabetics. They check their blood often, they know what their blood sugar is. And she's just like, my blood sugar is so much better
00:46:49
Speaker
after only a short time, just eating some oatmeal with some berries in it. She's like, my blood sugar is so much better when I wake up in the morning. It's nine day. And she could not stop talking. Every time I'd come over, she'd be like, I'm so happy you made me eat that oatmeal. I love that oatmeal. She was funny like that. She'd let you know. That's awesome. Yeah. And it just made me realize, wow.
00:47:11
Speaker
People can change, it doesn't matter what the age. So with my dad, I knew I had this memory in the back of my mind going like, no, I'm not gonna listen to excuses. I'm just- You're persistent. I'm just gonna be persistent. And we got into a lot of arguments and he'd tell me all sorts of stuff like, you can't change the world and you can't do all this stuff. And he's like, you can't.
00:47:38
Speaker
I didn't care because family's different and they have to put up with you, you know, for better or for worse. But I love him and I care about him. And I wanted him to get better. See, the thing is he was going through like he has high blood pressure and he was pre-diabetic. And he was going down the same path that his brother went down and his brother died. You know, his brother died. My uncle Gary, he died.
00:48:06
Speaker
As soon as he retired, he couldn't wait for retirement and he retired and he got cancer 63 years old and
00:48:19
Speaker
He died, just like that. And I think that really scared my dad a little bit. Maybe opened him up a little bit to some other answers. He knew he had to do something, but he was not prepared to do this. He literally just didn't think it would work. But my dad, I've been trying to get him to read the China study. My dad doesn't read. He'll read stuff online, but he won't read a book.
00:48:49
Speaker
He just doesn't. He's one of those people. There's a lot of people like that. I don't read or take the time. So it's really just conversations. It's like you're kind of just educating him through resources that you've pulled through. I've accumulated. I mean, I've done a tremendous amount of self-study on this. While we're on it, just maybe throw out a couple resources that have been beyond the Gary Yurovsky video that have been
00:49:18
Speaker
really influential to you, documentaries, books, whatever. Documentaries, this is, whatever. Yeah, this is, yeah, there's so many things, I could talk about this all day, there's so many things. I think community, first and foremost, having somebody to support you, I just wanna go off on a mini tangent, hopefully you can talk about this more, because I think it's really important to have somebody supporting you, and that's why Jordan, Eric,
00:49:46
Speaker
where we support each other. Like I got your back on this. I'm doing this too. Like having community and support is important. And that's where initially early on it was documentaries. So fork silver knives is clutch.
00:50:05
Speaker
on the animal rights side of things. It was earthlings. I mean, that'll just, yeah, that you will cry during that. Forget it. It's game over. You'll cry or you'll look away because you can't watch it. Um, it's, it's really heavy thrive. There's an interesting, uh, documentary called thrive. I think
00:50:24
Speaker
I heard people talk about it, but I haven't seen this. Yeah. It's some guy who owns a huge billion dollar corporation. He decided to break off and basically shun his own existence by talking about how
00:50:39
Speaker
quote unquote evil corporations are and just not really evil, but just saying like, Hey, you know, not everything is the way you think it is or the way it seems. So do a little, do a little diving. And this is where, as I was going vegan, I was like, wow, you know, I thought you needed to eat animal products and you don't. So what else have people been lying to me about? Like, you know, there's just, there's just so many things that you just assume it's one way. And then when you find out it totally isn't, you're just like, wow, what else is out there?
00:51:09
Speaker
You open one door and you're like, whoa, this is leading to a whole new room that I didn't even know existed. Yeah. So documentaries are really a good gateway, um, to that. So I watched a ton of documentaries and then also vlogs. Like I loved vlogs. I was watching all sorts of different, there's tons of different vlogs out there. And I, um, one in particular was this guy named Tim Van Orden, who, um, is also a friend of mine and,
00:51:38
Speaker
were just a really amazing resource. He, he was a raw athlete and he was, he decided he was going to take himself off the couch and try to make the Olympics in his, in his forties. And, uh, he, they did like a documentary about, he didn't quite make it, but he ended up becoming an elite athlete and he did it all on raw, all on raw foods. And he's,
00:52:04
Speaker
He's been, he has this site called Running Raw and I want to give him a shout out because he's been a huge influence on me. And what's really cool about him is he talks about diet, but lately he's also been moving off into like talking about depression and talking about anxiety and talking about things that he actually goes through and he's developed tools to help him
00:52:27
Speaker
Acclimate on a day-to-day basis how to get out there when you just don't feel like going for a run in the cold He's like I'll show you how to do it. You know nice. Yeah, I'll have a a link to his Info and his vlog on my show notes on the torganic blog, so I'll make sure that the info is up there Yeah, he's he was a fantastic resource But I found solace in these these vlogs because I felt like there was a community out there you know and this is not something that's typical for me like I'm not a
00:52:56
Speaker
All this stuff was totally new to me, but I just felt like I could connect with somebody who understood what I was going through. And there was all these vlogs circulating around where people are talking about what they're eating for a day. And you just felt like, okay, cool. I don't have anybody in my, I don't have tons of people, I should say, in my immediate circle. I had a few people. So I found community like that. So that was important. Then from there, it was about, I was just curious. So I started looking at,
00:53:23
Speaker
one of my favorite sites. You mentioned it on the blog recently, nutritionfacts.org with Dr. Greger who I've met a dozen times. There's a festival every year, the Boston Veg Fest, and he speaks there every year.
00:53:40
Speaker
And he's been speaking there for 20 years now, I think, since it started. He's been there every year and it's like a rock star. He's like a rock star there. He shows up and just people are like, it's totally flooded. The place is filled with people to hear him speaking. He's amazing. He's amazing. And his resources are great. And they were perfect for my dad because I could send my dad a five minute video.
00:54:04
Speaker
He could watch that. He'd be like, well, what about this? Well, here's a five minute video on that. And Dr. Greger is, he's definitely for the animals, but he backs everything up he says with science. And I think that's the most powerful, it's the most powerful resource for us out there, as far as I'm concerned, because everything is backed up by science. And a lot of people think, well, there's, you know, a lot of people are lying to us. It's like, well, okay, when you have a website that's chock full of science-based information,
00:54:34
Speaker
The whole thing with science is about gathering information and making decisions. I mean, I'm not a scientist, but I don't want to project anything. But for me, it's just gathering as much information as you can and acting on that information. And there's just so much positive information towards a plant-based diet. And there's so much good info out there.
00:55:01
Speaker
it's hard to deny, you know? So when you can send these little videos, it's like, here's a study that was cited, here's a study that was cited, not some random article that just spews a bunch of junk, you know? It's like, this is pretty legit, you know? I mean, it speaks pretty powerfully. So I use that resource for him.
00:55:25
Speaker
I also like the book, there's an RD named Brenda Davis and she wrote a book called Becoming Vegan. It's a great book and it's thorough and I've actually used that book as a resource when talking to Eric Bloom because I remember Eric was asking me some stuff about calcium and I used that as a resource.
00:55:49
Speaker
I inherently like I know a lot of this stuff but I don't like try and pretend like I'm gonna tell people you know I'm not I don't do scientific studies so I can't you know say you know oh this is this is right or this is right but I can point people towards resources like you said so I do my due diligence and I try to find resources that aren't totally biased and I just say hey well check this out check that out it's like all of a sudden the information starts becoming
00:56:20
Speaker
It's like, wow, there's a lot, there's a lot of positive info that say you should check this out, so maybe you should check this out.
Final Advice and Conclusion
00:56:44
Speaker
a couple really important things to take away from those points. A, flexibility, your pliability in how you're gonna approach people that might be looking for answers, but you know, you're flexible in how you're gonna sort of present that info to them and in order to create that positive change in their life rather than just being rigid and being like, this is the way, you know, and your flexibility. So I think that's a really important thing.
00:57:13
Speaker
But check this out though, and this is something I've battled with actually. We've been labeled as people who are bullheaded and we're gonna turn a lot of people off. I'm actually okay with turning some people off.
00:57:31
Speaker
i don't know if i would have changed had gary not been so adamant in his video and adamant in his speeches and adamant in the way he talks about it i mean it's the reason why vegans get so upset is because it's a real thing animals are dying it's
00:57:49
Speaker
you know, the choices that people make are supporting this cause. So if you can look at it from an, if you can see it from an empathetic point of view and realize that it's nothing against you, it's just, this is a very important and timely topic and every day animals are dying and it's not cool with vegans. It just isn't. And there's, and if,
00:58:12
Speaker
if people open their eyes to what was really going on and they saw it, they might feel the same way, but a lot of people turn the other way or they won't watch or they're not interested. So, I would suggest on the other side not to take things personally if somebody gets overly passionate about this, because this really is a big deal. But that being said, we have to live with each other, we have to work with each other.
00:58:37
Speaker
You know, for me personally, I've just found that I have to be pliable because I can't just like live in a bubble and just not deal with people and only have my little group of people that agree with me because it's just, it's not fun, man. Yeah. And I totally, I get that. Like at a certain point in life,
00:59:00
Speaker
as artists and clearly as with the food and diet and animal rights issues.
00:59:09
Speaker
We need to take a stand. Musically, sometimes you just got to put yourself out there and say, like it or not, I'm going for it. And you're never going to be able to please everyone. Yeah, never. You have to find that balance of being maybe flexible and pliable to who you're approaching. But then at a certain point, you have to be you. You have to be you. You have to take that stand.
00:59:33
Speaker
in order to, you know, be truly passionate about something, you need to put yourself out there on the ledge. Hey man, like that, that's the risk of really believing in something. It's true. And, and people respond to that. Like people don't want to, people don't respond to somebody who's.
00:59:48
Speaker
wishy washer all over the place. I mean, they'll respond to you, but not in the same way. They may not do any, that may not impact their lives. It just might be just like, oh, a nice, fun, easygoing guy to be around, but you're not going to impact anybody's life with something that really matters.
01:00:05
Speaker
You have to find some things you believe in and go for it. And go for it. And the other thing I wanted to take away from what you were saying was just the importance of community, because I totally agree. Huge. There is such a great community. And each individual person can find their outlet, whether it's Instagram or social media or video blogs and whatever
01:00:31
Speaker
little area you're in in your life, there's probably some other people that are on that path. And if it doesn't seem like there is try to seek out, maybe there's a juice bar in your town or maybe there's a co-op 20 miles away and there's going to be people there and finding that support network is so crucial totally for people along the way. And I,
01:00:56
Speaker
What would you say to sort of like a younger person that's just getting into
01:01:02
Speaker
You're almost like stepping into your shoes as a younger guy. You're a drummer, whether it's kind of overall concepts about life and drumming or health and the discipline of all that and how they connect. Can you impart some wisdom? Let the idea of another way of doing things seep into you and then let that translate into your musicianship as well. Let that idea
01:01:30
Speaker
of, you know, being open and realizing there's other way to do things, seeping your musicianship so that when you're playing, you know, your
01:01:40
Speaker
You're open, you're open to what the other musicians are doing. You know, be curious, man. Just, you know, there's just so, there's so much out there. There's so much. And it's really easy to just get caught in like one little thing. But I would say we're at such a, we're at such an amazing time. You can find communities online. You can find out any information you need to know. I cannot connect in the same way with a younger,
01:02:05
Speaker
the younger audience because they've grown up with the internet. They've grown up with all this information. Most of them are probably like past where I'm at. Like I'm just starting to get into all this stuff. But I would say the biggest thing is just to be open and be curious and be creative and just try it. Don't just be like, don't pretend you know. I think that was like the biggest thing growing up for me is I felt this incredible
01:02:35
Speaker
I just, I felt like I had to know everything or I just wasn't great. You know, I felt this intense pressure to musicians are hard on each other, man. You know, like musicians are really tough on each other. We're supposed to be on the same side, but like everybody,
01:02:49
Speaker
You know, they love to be like, oh, this guy, yeah, I don't really like the way he plays or he doesn't really know this or really know that. And I think I closed a lot of doors because I was just, I was pretending to know something I didn't know because I felt like I needed to already know it or really needed to already have it. It was like, oh yeah, I can play a wah-wah on co. Yeah, I'm cool with that. Or song go, you know, like I'm fine with that. Swing, yeah, I got that, you know?
01:03:17
Speaker
Second line, I've heard of it. I think I can do that, you know?
01:03:22
Speaker
Like all this stuff, I felt like I had to just, I had to have already, but you need to take time and you need to be open and you need to be curious and you need to spend real like legitimate time with it and don't feel like you have to know everything because guess what? Like some of the things you know might not even be true. So, you know, like eating animals, for instance, you know, it's like, so just really keep an open mind and just try and
01:03:52
Speaker
try to explore and try to dig deep and try it for yourself.
01:03:56
Speaker
All right. That was great. For the listeners out there, Tom, is there anywhere where people can find, whether it's like you on a website or on social media or around town and bands? Is there anywhere people can seek you out? Yeah. I'm on Facebook and Twitter, Tom Garrington. Cool. Right on, Tom. Thanks so much for doing it, man. Thanks for having me. Yeah. We could talk all day, I think. I know. We could keep going. All right, peace.
01:04:26
Speaker
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Torganic Podcast, and be sure to comment and rate the show in iTunes. It really does help. Also, come visit Torganic at the blog and at my Instagram page for regular updates on my triathlon training, fitness and vegan diet tips, and my musical happenings. Until next time, peace.