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TTP #11- Kalmia Traver on Transformation- Battling Cancer on the Road, Nutrition, Mindfulness Practice and her State of Awareness on Stage
12 Plays6 years ago
This episode's guest is Kalmia Traver- singer, saxophone player, songwriter, band leader and completely inspiring individual Kalmia Traver from the bands Rubblebucket and Kalbells. We cover a lot of territory in this episode from her transformation as a sax player in the horn section to front woman of an successful touring band. Her battle with cancer and the amazing story of touring while undergoing treatment and what helped her get through that time to her current state of living cancer free. We talk about how that experience affected her diet and the discipline to maintain that level of nutrition on the road. We also get into how mindfulness and meditation was a crucial factor in her survival and ability to thrive in the face of adversity. Kalmia's story is an inspiration to all of us who face tough challenges in our lives and how to look those straight in the face and beat them back. Her ability to thrive in the toughest of moments is incredible.
In this conversation:
-Transformation from section sax player to frontwoman
-‘Cancer Tour’- How that reality shaped her growth as a performer and transcended to a mindfulness practice
-Inspiration sources- Tara Brach Podcast, Power of Now- Eckhart Tolle, Kelly Brogan Melding eastern and Western healing techniques
-Touring with Cancer and the affect on diet and nutrition. Whole foods, organic, No sugar, No meat, minimal grains/seeds must be sprouted, sour dough bread, goat milk but no dairy, greens and veggies, lots of fats, fermented foods
-Salad Backpack!! And touring with a Nutribullet
-Playing shows and performing while fighting cancer causes a shift in perspective and elevated the connection with fans
-Sowing the seeds of self love and working to eliminate insecurities
-"The best career is the one that combines your greatest strengths with fulfilling what the world needs the most"
-Breaking through exhaustion and physical ’barriers’ on tour
-Rising above our perceived capabilities
-The healing process of creativity and Kalmia's goal of not only healing herself but others through music
Please take a moment to rate and review the podcast in iTunes and visit www.tourganic.com for more info on this episode and living healthy on the road
Tourganic Podcast Theme song 'The Path' written by David Bailis and this episode's musical interludes by Kalbells
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Life Update
00:00:05
Speaker
The best career is one that combines your greatest strengths with fulfilling what the world needs the most and I really felt that and still feel that like performing just is that for me it's it's the most fun and I feel like it's you know it's connecting.
00:00:22
Speaker
I am David Bayless, your host. Great to be back with another episode of the podcast.
Musicians and Healthy Lifestyles
00:00:27
Speaker
With the birth of my second child in December, the past two months have been beautiful, but a bit intense time-wise, and I had to take a break from the podcast. But I'm coming back strong with this episode featuring singer, saxophone player, songwriter, and band leader, and completely inspiring individual, Cal Travers. Before we get into that, I just want to take a moment to thank everyone out there that has taken the time to check out the podcast.
00:00:47
Speaker
It's a labor of love, and it means so much when I hear from you guys, whether by commenting in iTunes, social media, or just out there in the world. If this is your first time listening, welcome. In the tourganic podcast, I speak with touring musicians about how they live a healthy lifestyle on the
Cal Travers' Journey: Music and Cancer
00:01:01
Speaker
road. While many of these episodes are about how and why my guests live a plant-based vegan diet on the road, the content of these conversations has a diverse and holistic approach to focus on health of mind, body, and spirit.
00:01:13
Speaker
My goal is that this podcast will give you a window into their life and offer you some insight that will inspire you. Please let me know what you think by commenting and rating the show on iTunes.
00:01:22
Speaker
As I mentioned, my guest this week is Cal Travers, singer and saxophonist in Rebel Bucket and her band Cal Bells. We cover a lot of territory in this episode from her transformation as a horn section player to front woman of a successful touring band, her battle with cancer and the amazing story of touring while undergoing treatment and what helped her get through that time to now live in cancer free. We talk about how that experience affected her diet and the discipline to maintain that level of nutrition on the road.
00:01:49
Speaker
We also get into how mindfulness and meditation was a crucial factor in her survival and ability to thrive in the face of adversity. Cal's story is an inspiration to all of us who face tough challenges in our lives and how to look those straight in the face and beat them back.
Transition to Frontwoman Role
00:02:02
Speaker
Her ability to thrive in the toughest of moments is incredible. We begin this episode speaking about the transition from sax player to the lead singer and front woman in Rebel Bucket.
00:02:13
Speaker
Something that's so cool about seeing you as an artist growing is what I perceive as a transformation, but maybe you don't at all. But to me, when I first kind of saw you John Brown's body, right, you were just in the horn section. Yeah. And then the transition to the early days of Rubble Bucket, and then you became this incredible front woman of the band.
00:02:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And I don't know if you see it that way at all, because for you, your journey is like in your eyes, this might not have been that at all. But as someone looking in has played some gigs with you guys, and that's been just a supporter of the band all along. How do you kind of see that journey? And how did that happen? Is that something you had the
Performing During Cancer Treatment
00:02:53
Speaker
vision of early on? Or is it something that's just happened? Yeah, well, I remember, like,
00:03:00
Speaker
Being in those early days with Rebel Bucket and it was kind of like our M.O. or end game, I feel like was very just dance, like simple, just like fun, pursuing fun in a live setting with like way too many musicians. Yeah. No, not too many. It was a perfect amount. But yeah, and then I...
00:03:26
Speaker
don't think I ever had like this this planned route like similar to what you're describing when you don't when you say you're starting something and then you don't know how it's gonna end that's definitely how it was for me but then one day I do recall a moment when Alex and I were talking and he was like yeah like what we were kind of just like well you know I think it would probably be a good idea to have a front person of this band and that's obvious and
00:03:53
Speaker
for Cal to do it, because Cal's like a girl and cool and whatever. Cal wants to. I just remember over the course of a year or two, my mic would just kind of like edge a little bit closer to the center and like a little bit more forward. Because I would literally play so many shows where I was just in the horn section and there was like this big empty space right up front. Yeah.
00:04:20
Speaker
It was a pretty natural union. Actually, there was a moment. Yeah.
00:04:29
Speaker
I think, I mean, I think it was just, it was funny because it was like, I think it just started to be kind of awkward because we were like, wow, you know, yeah, there's just this big empty space. Yeah, it was a moment.
Mindfulness in Music and Life
00:04:41
Speaker
And I wasn't very, I was very uncomfortable actually that I think that's why the space was empty for so long. Because I feel like maybe a more natural path would be to start with a front person and then build a band around it. But I was just like very content to just be in the horn section. And I mean, I loved playing with
00:04:58
Speaker
JBB all those years just like doing the simple dance steps and being deep inside the harmony pockets with like a trio of horns Yeah, and like there's so much to to tear into with that and And so I didn't really I think I also like didn't want to do that typical front woman thing too. I was like
00:05:19
Speaker
I thought it was kind of like more badass to be a side person. Yeah. And I was resisting that. Actually, that's more of like almost a more interesting part of it, is that I was like, yeah, I don't just want to be that. Yeah. You know, the one girl in the band who's also the lead singer. Yeah. And I felt like I was definitely resisting it for a while. But then I just, I love to dance and sing. What are you going to do? You know, you can't resist for that long.
00:05:46
Speaker
Do you feel like your experience on stage has changed now that you've stepped into that role? Or at the end of the day, do you feel like it's all just an extension of the same part of you? That's such a good question. This is good. This is really letting me look at some things I haven't looked at in a while.
00:06:08
Speaker
Yeah. I, well, you know, that was the whole birthing process though, because there were definitely many years of being out front where I just really, it wasn't locking. It was like, felt weird and ego-y and I just wasn't owning it. Like I felt just, um, like I, I kind of felt like dragged into it a little bit. Uh, yeah, like I was describing earlier and, um, and I think,
00:06:38
Speaker
I think it took a lot, like there were so many jokes going around in our van over the years with the Rebel Bucket of like making fun of how I would address the crowd because I was so uncomfortable with it. And like I would just say, I would walk on stage and be like, what's up? Hey, how's it going? And Adam and Dave and Ian used to make so much fun of me.
00:07:02
Speaker
Like one time I said, give it up for yourselves. And that was like such a joke that went on so many times. And now I say it as a joke just to the crowds all the time. Give it up for yourselves. So many awkward moments. And was there a moment where you suddenly felt at home? Can you pinpoint that? I definitely can pinpoint that. That is like the way more crystal clear part to me. And that like digs into the, to,
00:07:29
Speaker
the heavy shit, but like going, the whole cancer experience, like having it be super intricately tied with performing.
Touring Challenges with Cancer
00:07:39
Speaker
Like I really, looking back, it's like kind of crazy that I went that route, but I didn't, I barely took any time off. I mean, there was, I took probably less time off than I'm taking off now, just by chance. You know, we don't have a lot of shows right now and we're finishing our album, but during that time we were
00:07:59
Speaker
still in this mode where we were just touring all the time and it was...
00:08:02
Speaker
It was our living and we kind of couldn't stop. Or at least in our minds we were like, no, we don't want day jobs. We have to keep playing. And so there was a couple months during the summer when I was having surgery and even in between the surgeries, I played a show like 10 days after my first surgery. That was even before the diagnosis, oddly, but that's a different story. But I dove after my final chemo treatment, which was only, it was only three months total of chemo, but we,
00:08:32
Speaker
Scheduled the tour and we were like we're just gonna go for this and if it doesn't work Well, you know, we'll work it out then but we may took a bunch of kind of precautions to make sure that I would be comfortable and we like got rented a van with a bunk and That was and like took away a ton of my my normal duties like I didn't drive at all and I didn't do merch and I just would go straight to the van and like pass out and
00:08:57
Speaker
and smoked a ton of weed and that helped a lot and lots of CBD products. Anyway, all of that was just kind of going to say that that was like a very crystallizing just moment, a full experience for me in every way possible. It was like a catalyst for so much like 360 or 180 degree shift in the way that I looked at myself, like in the world.
Dietary Changes Post-Cancer
00:09:26
Speaker
and what I needed and giving myself what I needed instead of always putting it aside. But I just remember these shows with like the cancer tour or like the bald tour or whatever just being so incredibly different than any shows I had ever played before. The crowd was hypercharged and it was all of our fans from all the years, but they were like, I don't even, I can't imagine what it would be like to be a huge fan of Rebel Bucket and then to see that show.
00:09:56
Speaker
Like with me going out there. I mean the I was very More much more present at those shows than I'd ever been like I was noticing things About the room and the sound and I like was noticing things about myself. It was like in slow motion. It was so intense I can't I can't quite put a finger on why except for just that I was using like basically I had to I taught myself mindfulness and
00:10:23
Speaker
because out of necessity from all the, like just being in hospitals and everything. And just all the waiting rooms and all just the normal, like all the pain and the crazy anxiety. And that was like a very instinctual. I had to learn how to just be in the now and nothing else can matter. Cause the minute one other thing comes and matters, like I just crumble and like, I can't take it anymore. And so, and you know, I was having like pretty crazy anxiety during that time.
00:10:52
Speaker
just so yeah it was cool i feel like that's that's probably the biggest gift there's so many gifts that came out of that experience but the mindfulness practice was really profound yeah so in the face of that incredible adversity and almost seeing the finite aspect of life you had to focus within that mindfulness practice and helped
00:11:16
Speaker
give you a sense of purpose and perspective, which completely transformed your experience on stage just by really appreciating and truly living in the moment. It's such a cliche thing, but when you actually feel it and you feel that you've embraced it, that cliche is meaningless, that the feeling of it is everything.
00:11:39
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's what the what is the value of the practice because I think you know I had so many times over the course of my life before that I had felt it you know I was like yeah this is amazing like I just I'm one with the universe right now or would maybe not even those words just like being in nature or just a million different times but it was the feeling that I didn't have like control over when that would come and go I just felt very much like at the whims of my own negative emotions or
00:12:09
Speaker
Like it's kind of like a brain like it's so the whole thing is a Like yeah, it's it's
Music and Self-Discovery
00:12:18
Speaker
a brain trip To start to study that stuff and yeah So did you actually study it or is it something that you've more just trying to take some simple lessons and internalize them?
00:12:28
Speaker
It's funny because I'm actually studying it right now a lot more than before. It sent me on this path, I'm still in it. I'm trying to really think back to the beginning. I had had some really, just the general absorbing it from the world around me from people talking about it and I can't remember. Oh yeah, we listened to this podcast by Tara Brock.
00:12:49
Speaker
And that was really cool. That really helped. What else was I... I read The Power of Now. I actually didn't even read it. I read the first two chapters and I was like, yes! I'm so with that.
00:13:28
Speaker
Just to unpack that whole experience, so how did the whole cancer thing happen? Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I think about this so much, like obsessively, and I'm still working on it. It's kind of like my new, my like current just life project. It's a great, I'm so, it's such a good life project to really unpacking what happened there is like provided me with so many great
00:13:56
Speaker
new good ways to take care of myself better. But um, yeah, I mean, it's funny, I was just reading on this woman Kelly Brogan's website, who was like my new superhero. And she's a psychiatrist
00:14:13
Speaker
who specializes in women's mental health and with a holistic perspective. I mean, she's come down through all of the Western training. And then she kind of, I guess, I've been reading her website a lot. Apparently, four years ago, she had this major life epiphany and started practicing kundalini yoga and all these other things and is now really just all of her literature that she's putting out is basically melding Eastern and Western sciences together.
00:14:42
Speaker
like creating this new holistic healing technique or just a whole host of them. And all of her friends are so interesting and cool and they're all like these amazing trailblazing like holistic health
Creative Expression and Healing
00:14:56
Speaker
people.
00:14:57
Speaker
And she was talking about this one guy in particular who actually recently passed away. And I can't remember his name, but I will tell you. And he was, is a pioneer in cancer research. And one of the things that he helped prove is that, and I might be totally botching this, but I'm going to, it's the idea that really resonated with me. It's like they previously thought that cancer cells were older and mature cells that were kind of like,
00:15:23
Speaker
aging incorrectly and like getting more warps or something and basically he proved that no it's actually stem cells which are like the youngest possible cells ever like those are cells that can turn into anything.
00:15:37
Speaker
And it's those that have been in a hostile environment and have lost their regulatory abilities. And I read that sentence and I was like, that's me. That describes me. Thinking right before, in the couple years before the cancer, I just feel like I had hit a wall or a series of walls. I wasn't, I think I had kind of
00:16:04
Speaker
Really really pushing myself way too hard around the career around like touring way too much not knowing how to rest properly You know I was feeling like I was eating well, but it wasn't I mean I really got schooled on really how to do it better after that and a lot of things and just I think mentally and emotionally I wasn't I was really kind of like turning away from
00:16:31
Speaker
Like all this spirit work that's so valuable, like looking at your shadow and acknowledging your inherited grief from your ancestors or from our
00:16:44
Speaker
our whole shebang that we're in the middle of this crazy world that we're in. There's so much violence in our past. There's just so much to face and untangle. And I
Future Goals and Advice
00:16:56
Speaker
think, really, honestly, I was really not doing that work. And so this is kind of from a spiritual, psychological perspective.
00:17:05
Speaker
from a actually cellular perspective, I don't know. There's a lot of cool testing I could do, but ever since I got out of all of that, I'm like, maybe I'll do it someday down the line.
00:17:20
Speaker
And so essentially you got the diagnosis and you guys were just committed. You just plowed forward with the touring and stuff. Not many musicians out there have had that experience and you alluded to it with resting in the van. And specifically, like you mentioned diet, like can you explain a little bit how touring with cancer, you dealt with it with your diet and also after you've conquered and beat it and how you've continued your life, how it's affected it.
00:17:49
Speaker
Yeah, there were a few really seminal moments for me on the healing side of things, and they were like, it's just like such a, it spans so much time, and it didn't happen immediately. There were many, many months of such, so much suffering. But I think that I had some big turning points, really mostly after the surgeries, after the chemo, and even after that tour.
00:18:18
Speaker
that whole area is just like ground zero, like really like red hot when I think about it. And I don't think I was really getting into much of the diet stuff at that point. Um, I knew I was like, okay, I'm like going to, to learn more about diet, but right now I'm going to like, just give myself whatever I need to get through. And then I, um,
00:18:41
Speaker
I took a really beautiful trip. So that tour was in September or was it October? No, it was October. And then we recorded in the winter. And then in March of the next year, I remember I took a solo trip out to the desert. This is not answering your question at all. But I'm like trying to touch on some of the major things that led me out of that suffering into like
00:19:05
Speaker
really super uber healing mode and went to flew to LA and my sister lives there and she picked me up and drove and we like hung out for a few days and then we drove down to Joshua Tree and she just dropped me off in the middle of the desert with enough water for three nights and then I yeah I mean that's it was a heavy experience for me and it was also my first time doing anything alone
00:19:31
Speaker
Like I had basically had Alex like at my side for the, since the diagnosis. Like I was so just crippled. I couldn't, I needed like so much support. And then I got on that plane. I was like, okay, doing something by myself. And yeah, those three days were really, really, really so empowering just to be, it was so scary. I like balled so much. Just being alone and like so far from home and in the desert and there was no cell phone service and I was like sitting
00:20:02
Speaker
terrified and I really like then I would like be crying in the night and then wake up in the morning and it would just be so beautiful like the light on the mountains and the sky and like I would go for these walks and see the cacti and the blooming flowers and it was just like oh it was so such a night and day is just such a good microcosm of like of just the way I don't know just the way that
00:20:27
Speaker
yin and yang, just the way the opening and the closing need each other to even exist. So that was amazing. I came back from that feeling really strong. And then I was like, I really need to get my nutrition in line. So I went to this guy in Brooklyn who's amazing, Eric Levinson.
00:20:45
Speaker
and we just over the course of a bunch of meetings really just like created a diet and I had done a ton of research and basically from a ton of different sources kind of like pieced together what it seemed like everyone was saying was like a prime cancer healing diet but just healing diet in general and like anti-inflammatory. Yeah.
00:21:07
Speaker
and Whole Foods, organic, avoiding. Well, I mean, there's a lot of disagreement about what to avoid and what not to avoid. I'm sure. I'm sure it's a hot bag. Oh, yeah. It can be. It's such a labyrinth. But I felt really, I did experiment. And then ultimately, I just really started to do what felt good for me. And with Eric's help, I basically landed on cutting out sugar entirely.
00:21:34
Speaker
cutting out meat for a long time. And then I brought meat back and then I was really, really conscious about any grains or seeds to always have them be soaked and or sprouted. And like I finally have just been working bread back into my life, but like with sourdoughs and those already have the sourdough helps break down the gluten. So it's like way easier to digest and it's really delicious. Nice.
00:22:00
Speaker
Yeah, but so yeah, I totally like, I cut out most grains and then I did, I ate a lot of goat dairy but no goat dairy. That was like this one book I read that was saying that and then a ton of greens. I just tried to like pack as many greens into my body every day as possible in whatever form, juice, like salads, avocados and tons of sauteed.
00:22:27
Speaker
like in butter, so much butter, like an obscene amount of butter. Fats. Yeah, like healthy animal fats and bone broths and then as many fermented foods as I could get all day long, like anywhere. And on the road, okay, in the same breath. Now, let's talk about that on the road. Yeah, because I've heard about these smoothies. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:22:52
Speaker
Well, okay, so the big tours I've done since this major diet transformation, really salads were at the epicenter of it. It was like, that was my saving grace. And I...
00:23:05
Speaker
created this wonderful thing called salad backpack. And it's just like a whole separate backpack with my cutting board and my knife and olive oil and cider vinegar and garlic. Everyone makes fun of me for it. I don't care. That's so badass. I'm like, y'all, you can just shut up until you have to face some crazy disease, and then you'll see what it's like. Right? Yeah. Yeah, so salad backpack. And I brought my own bowl, too.
00:23:35
Speaker
I would just, I really just trained our band to love whole foods and to like not shy away from the wonderful beauty of whole foods on the road. And I mean, say what you will about it, but it's, I mean, obviously it's so clutch for touring musicians. Cause it's everywhere and it's good stuff. Yeah. And you bring the NutriBullet, right?
00:24:02
Speaker
That was actually new. That's a new development for me. Just this year. I don't know why I didn't think of it sooner. But it's brilliant. It's so amazing. And I just discovered avocado smoothies. Like where you just take an avocado and water. And man, it's...
00:24:21
Speaker
I figured that out at this Ethiopian vegetarian restaurant in Bushwick called Buna. Oh, I love Buna. Yeah, I figured you would know that. Yeah, yeah, Buna's my chili. Yeah, but that's on the menu there. And the first time I had it, I was so confused. I was like, this just tastes like avocado. What's in there? And then I just realized it's just water. Yeah.
00:24:39
Speaker
So that's pretty much now what I eat every day, but on the road it's perfect because we get avocados on a ride or two, and it's like, it's like power food. It's like baby food for adults. Right. Yeah, and for baby, yeah. Yeah, I bet babies. She loves, my little one loves the avocado.
00:25:03
Speaker
dreams of completeness but how she wakes up in her bed with flesh with flesh in her la la la la bed walking down the street through whiskey flowers she kissed you so hard and I heard a boat I thought about la la boy friend back home
00:25:36
Speaker
It's tough to say because for you, you've had this really intense and beautiful and also terrifying life transformation with the cancer, all this stuff, the diet, the experience. How has it affected not only your songwriting, but your playing and your singing and your approach to music?
00:25:55
Speaker
Yeah, well I think one of the biggest way, just like the waves, the way it's kind of washed over me was some of those seminal moments, working with Eric and having the desert time and like really doubling down. I have an amazing philosopher, therapist, healer too, like getting our healers, getting our team together is so important. I just feel that way for everyone in the world right now, especially.
00:26:26
Speaker
But I think, yeah, just kind of like really zooming in on like, on this little seed of self-love and like feeding it every day has totally changed everything about my me, my me. And I, writing Kalbells was like the biggest huge transformation piece I can really refer to at all is like,
00:26:53
Speaker
Um, I think, I mean, I think, yeah, to, to really like, to answer your question, sorry, I'm not being super eloquent, but I, having to go inwards and like, and really get to know my body in extreme ways, like, cause I got super obsessive then about like, Oh my God, like, is the cancer going to come back? What's it going to feel like obsessed with any tiny little lump or like,
00:27:20
Speaker
Inside my belly like just I started to like understand my the way like the clock of my digestion because I would just be like Oh, there's a lump there. Oh now it's an inch higher now. So now it's there. I'm like, oh no, that's just food. You're fine but I Yeah, just it totally came out in the performance too. I found myself on stage being like super more aware of the audience and like way more aware of little shifts in energy and how people are responding like
00:27:49
Speaker
just in a way more minute way and then I'm like watching myself do things I never even thought were possible like take these chances as a performer be running around like I yeah I don't know I think it kind of the experience just like upped my brain a little bit like you're you're like hyper awareness yeah
00:28:11
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I remember one time, because I play sax and sing, I'll go from a horn line straight to singing sometimes, or vice versa. And so there's certain cues where I have to grab my sax at this beat or else I'm not going to have it to my mouth in time to play the parts.
00:28:29
Speaker
the first bunch of shows like after all that stuff I was just watching myself do that like so much more fluidly I was like how is this even possible I would I just like yeah I don't know it it was yeah brain healthy I think I would blame that on the partly mindfulness and partly just like a choice to start loving oneself and then that seems like to be
00:28:52
Speaker
a good idea for us all. Just start to like give you that space, moving room to really express. Because I think I was so self-critical for so long that I wasn't expressing at all. Like I'm way smaller percentage than I am now. Yeah, I mean that's the place to start. How can you truly give love if you don't
00:29:17
Speaker
receive it yourself through yourself and truly appreciate what you have and love that. You can't truly give love, which is kind of the whole idea behind going on stage and performing music and connecting with people is giving love and receiving and feeling that whole vibe when you're performing.
00:29:38
Speaker
Yeah, well said. You mentioned that fear that you're feeling in moments of like, oh, there's a lump and you're such a fighter. I see you as so inspirational, such a leader. And I know that whether it's people out there that are experiencing that or we all have people that we're close to, this is something that touches so many people. And how did you in those moments and then in the bigger picture, how have you gotten past that? Because you spoke about it in the past tense.
00:30:07
Speaker
Yeah, that's yeah, definitely um Well all of these all of these healing modalities combined really worked for me and work still I mean I definitely feel like looking back from From that way more acute place like there's a few moments I could describe just like just feeling utterly crushed around the diagnosis and
00:30:33
Speaker
I was actually having some crazy family stuff going on at the same time. My grandfather died the same week as the diagnosis and I was just like, come on. Like one of those stories where it's just, it all happens at once. And I just remember like during that week I was like laying on the floor and I just felt so like empty, like just not in like that beautiful blissful. Just, I felt like where is my soul? Like I'm like this fucked up.
00:30:59
Speaker
like machine that just doesn't, that isn't alive. And isn't like a welcoming place for life to be. So the question was, sorry, that was like a heavy thing to say. Regardless of the question, I think that there's something really deep about that because the way you described it as empty, you're also starting from ground zero. When you're empty, it's like you have no choice but to build yourself back up. You know what I mean? You reach that pit.
00:31:28
Speaker
but there was something inside of you that was committed to not giving up. Yeah. That just reminded me because right around that time, it was that was when I was suddenly had a whole shift in my perspective about my job. Like I'd always thought of myself as like, just, you know, the lead singer of Rebel Bucket or a musician. And I suddenly saw like, I started really starting to see that if I, okay, so like if my body wasn't a comfortable place to be, that would surely translate.
00:31:58
Speaker
to the world like to the fans or whatever like I wouldn't be doing my job if I was in severe pain or just psychological or physical or whatever and I cared a lot about I felt very deeply that I want to keep doing this job I really really love it so fun
00:32:16
Speaker
It feels like such a good intersection of what my mom always said. My mom was awesome, by the way, and my dad too. Shout out. Shout out to the parents and the family, everyone. They're like Vermont's earth people and they were very supportive of all of us and the three of us kids to pursue our creative dreams. My mom, and they have done that too, and my mom would always say,
00:32:45
Speaker
The best career is one that combines your greatest strengths with fulfilling what the world needs the most. What beautiful advice. Kind of like that Venn diagram. And I really felt that and still feel that performing just is that for me. It's the most fun and I feel like it's connecting. And so when it was like, yeah, I'm utterly empty.
00:33:08
Speaker
I'm like totally fucked. Like if I want to keep doing this I really have to start to figure out how to do it and that's my new job. Like I have to figure out how to be well and that's my job. So my job is now it not being the lead singer of Rubble Bucket but like you know wanting to be
00:33:30
Speaker
That was how I phrased it in my mind at the time. I really have to want to be, okay, so feeding the soul. Now I'm losing the language that I had for it at the time. The thing, though, is that it really then, at least in my mind, that filled the center of my job and everything. It was suddenly no longer a challenge to eat well, whereas before I was like, I love donuts, by the way,
00:33:58
Speaker
it was kind of a problem. It was like, I really felt like I was at the whim of sugary foods and I'm not like dissing donuts. They're great or ice cream or cookies or anything. And there's totally a balanced way to do it, but it wasn't balanced for me. It was like, it was like that whole well-known affliction that's so common for all of us of like the shame eating or like
00:34:23
Speaker
just binging and just doing things that we know flat out are really not good for ourselves. Even not eating, just anything. Well, drinking, there you go. Or like just friendships or this or that. Just kind of putting up with things that really, no, don't do that. But there's no one saying don't do that and you're just not saying it because we don't have this core.
00:34:47
Speaker
of love and it's kind of like you got to flip the switch. So yeah, I started, I was like, okay, well, that's a great excuse to flip that switch for me. Like it's do or die. So I'm going to just, it was wonderful. Then it was like, it was never a hard decision to do the things that I knew were going to enable me to keep going, you know, and not just not die, but also like be able to do the work I love.
00:35:13
Speaker
to make the right choice, yeah. That's super cool that you kind of made that realization about your purpose in life and how you needed to commit fully.
00:35:25
Speaker
Yeah, that was probably the thing that, that was like, that was the thing that the universe was probably trying to knock into my brain too. Cause I think I really, when I think about before it, I mean, there were so many great times and it was super fun, but I don't think that I was really committed like on that full body in this way. I was like, I still hadn't really come to terms with all the privileges that had led me like,
00:35:54
Speaker
be up on that stage and I was just like kind of self-hating a lot. I was like I don't deserve this. I didn't, you know, I think instead of saying I'm so blessed to all of these million myriad reasons, like things that have allowed me to
00:36:13
Speaker
Be supported and come be on the stage. To live this lifestyle that we live, performing. It's a dream life or something. I think I was really trying to take that away from myself or just beat myself for it. It's almost like the Catholic guilt thing. I didn't grow up Catholic, but it's like there has to be some suffering around this. Whereas I think I really, really, really see it differently now.
00:36:41
Speaker
We have a responsibility to make the most of this, to use this platform to change the world in whatever way our gut tells us. But for most of us, I'm in our community. I really love what it seems like people are really
00:37:05
Speaker
enhancing these wonderful, like these moments, creating memories and like chances for people to open up for their own creativity. That's the hope. Yeah, that's what it's all about. Yeah.
00:37:44
Speaker
I can imagine that when you're on tour and you're going through the treatment physically being on stage must have you must have had to dig in. I'm really into the concept in life we're capable of so much more than we give ourselves credit for.
00:37:59
Speaker
You know what I mean? Yeah. Whether it's stuff that I do with fitness, which is not even close to some of the stuff that other people are doing, people are like, oh, you're crazy. Like, really? You did that this morning? I just continually to be so inspired by other people and the seed of a lot of where that comes from is just that my belief and learning about how we're capable of so much more.
00:38:19
Speaker
Did you feel like that was something that you were experiencing when you were on stage going through treatment? Your body physically must have been worn down, but yeah, you were probably just crushing it just through the vibes in the room. Is that something you can connect with? Yeah. Well, tour just is that like time, like, but.
00:38:43
Speaker
That aside, I'm going to take it back to my mom right now. And dad. I don't know. They're a unit. Especially my mom. She's always had this weird, amazing, hilarious thing about her where she just loves to put herself in the craziest situations. She wouldn't much prefer to sleep on the floor than get a hotel if she was going to come.
00:39:10
Speaker
visit me or like if we're going on a hike like and it's like a lightning storm she's like whatever we can just come on let's just go to the top it's fine we're not I mean that might not be I mean I think that actually has happened but like she's not that imprudent
00:39:25
Speaker
so far so good but like she'll be like we're oh they we grew up hiking a lot and in the outdoors in vermont and like she would always be the one who's like the tides coming in we have to but like there's the oceans like we have to like climb over that rock carapace or i'm like mom why don't we just go on the path
00:39:43
Speaker
But she's like, you can do what you want. I have to climb over the rock carapace or something, or that precipice, the wrong word. That's been instilled. That's been, yeah, like that's a virtue that I think I've grown up with from a, from a really young age. And I'm totally the same way. Like I now, and I see it in myself and it's really funny cause I'm like, yeah, like,
00:40:04
Speaker
If there's a chance to push it, just push it, man. Like, push it. When you break, you'll find out something new. And it's not always like the most sane approach. But yeah, I mean, I'm totally with you on that. Like, what humans are capable of is...
00:40:22
Speaker
And there was probably, I don't know, I'm guessing there may have even been naysayers who were like, oh, don't go on tour, you can't do this, or it's bad move for you. Yeah, definitely. I mean, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think I have to be careful. Yeah, everyone has to be the master of their own domain, for sure. But I was definitely trying to make sure that I didn't want to be like,
00:40:51
Speaker
you know, disrespectful or somehow just like saying like, ah, I'm just trying to prove something. It felt right though, it really did. Actually, our drummer's dad, our drummer at the time, Dave Cole, his dad is a cancer survivor as well as a GYN doctor. And he was a huge support for me during that time. And we would have these long phone calls and he just, he and the mom too would like just really take me in and like talk me through a lot.
00:41:21
Speaker
And one of the things I remember him saying was like, if you can play shows during this time, do it, because do you know how much you're gonna inspire all those people? And seriously, Cal, I think that was the first time I even thought, in my mind, I was like, well, here goes my career, I'm never gonna get to do what I love. And then he was like this voice of, no, go for it, if you can.
00:41:50
Speaker
do it. And yeah, I'm really glad I did. And did you ever have moments where you're on the road where you're like, Oh, I can't do this. Like, I've had tons of those, but not per se on that. Yeah. I wrote a poem actually about, it's called the maple box and it's about like this eight month window.
00:42:11
Speaker
and I just described it as a box, like a made of maple, maple wood. I don't really know why I chose that one, but it was like this golden, that's why it was, because the wood is yellow maybe. I don't even know. Anyway, it was this window of time where that's like the ground zero of me giving myself that love and the space to like take away every single nagging
00:42:41
Speaker
self-hating, self-critical thought and just relief. It's like when you have too much debt and everyone says, okay, your debt's gone. What's that called? Relief? Not that nagging thoughts should be a debt for anyone, but it felt like that type of relief for me. I was like, okay, awesome. Anytime, anything that I'm just gonna let it all go right now and totally exist to heal.
00:43:07
Speaker
I know that that's going to be the best gift I can give to my family or any of my friends because everyone's freaking out. All my closest family were just like, how can we help? I was feeling like, yeah, I really appreciate it, but honestly, there's so much that I can just be doing right now to give myself just quietness and space. Then I remember, yeah, we had
00:43:33
Speaker
My mom and I were working a lot out too because I can't even imagine what it would be like for a mom to go through that, but she was totally freaking out. We really came to this understanding around that for both of us, the best thing we could do for each other was really
00:43:49
Speaker
really take care of ourselves. And that's the best gift you can give someone that loves you. Yeah. Yeah. Is to be well. Isn't that what we want for all the people we love? Yeah. Does that poem somehow connect with that? Mm.
00:44:06
Speaker
I totally meandered right there. Yeah, the maple box, right. So that was like, that was the only poem I think I wrote in that whole eight month period. And I wrote it at the end and I was like basically defining what that just was. And it was like all these beautiful, it was kind of, it was mostly the summer. And like I went to so many weddings that my friends were all getting married and it just describes like all these beautiful little moments.
00:44:34
Speaker
And I think it was about, yeah, it was just about all this beauty. And somehow I was really experiencing such a deeper existence with reality once I go of all the self-doubt.
00:44:50
Speaker
And it was like, I was like a cop about it. Like anytime I'm gonna come in, I would just like slap it away. Like, no, get out of here. And it was so cool. And I was so free. And then I think after that, like, like, it was kind of time to graduate from there and then just start to, not that, you know, just start to kind of like re-expand. So was the poem a cathartic experience? What does that poem represent? Yeah, I think it, I think I actually have to reread it. It's, it's like,
00:45:21
Speaker
about the process, that's it, man. For me, writing music, that is the healing, most healing thing possible. I mean, other art forms too, for sure. But yeah, writing poems in music are always the most healing things. I always feel the best. It's like full body good feels working on music. It's so crazy.
00:45:46
Speaker
Why is that? Performing is fun too, but anyway, yeah. Well, any kind of just like spiritual output where you're really tapping into the truest parts of ourself and trying to really just get to pure expression, that is a truly healing moment, that's a truly healing method of basically trying to tap into the universe. Yeah, a lot of the Eastern philosophies describe that
00:46:15
Speaker
Um, freedom and magic, you know, it as like, in the divine as a free flowing thing, like in yoga, it's, it's the prana or I don't know the, all the terminology in yoga, but like, um, what is it when the energy can just fro flow?
00:46:31
Speaker
Not prana, yamas. No, I think it is prana. Movement, asana, asana. Oh my god, cut this part out. No, I'm just kidding. I don't know. The yamas and the niyamas. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know them all either. But what I'm trying to talk about is, yeah, that's like this, that's like the primordial playful energy as far as, you know, that I'll leave it, leave it all for,
00:46:58
Speaker
This is it, this is awkward stage count right now. I'll give it all up for, I'll throw you guys the primordial daylight of your soul's being tonight if that's what you really want. Yeah, Jim, my philosopher healer, describes God as, well, as many things, but one he says it's a possibility of a possibility. And whether you use that word God or not, whatever, could just be higher power, like divine energy or something.
00:47:29
Speaker
And I really, really love that because it's so exactly... Yeah, like when I'm in like a really great creative flow with music or art, it's...
00:47:43
Speaker
nothing is solidified yet. I mean, things do solidify and they kind of shed off and then that becomes the single or like the whatever, the album cover. But in that moment, it's all just, it's all free flowing. And you're kind of just like sitting there with like this cloud of fairies around your head and you're just like, and it feels so good. Right. The creative moment. Yeah. So liberating.
00:48:10
Speaker
I woke up tired Couldn't fight you Couldn't tell you How my body won't flow
00:48:33
Speaker
And do you have goals that you think about that you want to attain, whether it's with Rebel Bucket or with Cowbells or whether your personal growth and your journey, is that something you ever sit down and think about?
00:48:45
Speaker
Yeah, that's really, I really like that question because it makes me think about goals. Yeah, I think I maybe had really big like dominate the world with musical, you know, like earlier on and then it's like become much more humble and shifting just down to like what I was saying before. Yeah, just
00:49:06
Speaker
be healthy, be able to do this work and play. And then, um, as of a couple years ago, I was, when I was basically, it was the Rebel Bucket album and the Cowbells album, and to me, I just like
00:49:19
Speaker
set this huge goal just to release those two albums. Like I have to do it. I have to do it. No matter what crazy paths it takes me on, I'm going to make those albums and release them. But I mean, I'd love, I would, I would love to have
00:49:39
Speaker
rubble bucket get to keep being a certain force and I feel like it really feeds us and it lets us travel and it connects us with so many amazing beautiful people and just the most funny awesome fans and cool people and you know venue owners and promoters everywhere so I really
00:50:03
Speaker
I think that that's gonna keep feeding us as long as we feed it and then I've been thinking about a couple other goals lately. Like I've been really inspired by Erika Badu and her doulaism and I think that would be a fun path for me to explore other ways to use music for healing besides just like a big rock show.
00:50:29
Speaker
I think this year I've really been trying to push outward my concept of ways to keep this path and just open it up even more. I've been writing a lot of poetry and I just made my first poetry zine and getting into art and painting. I would like to be doing more volunteering or just some way to
00:50:52
Speaker
That's a goal of mine. If you could, say, go back to a younger version of yourself, 15, 20, whatever, it doesn't have to be a certain age, but looking back and you could give yourself some advice and some words of wisdom, can you think about some of that stuff you would offer to a young cow? Yeah.
00:51:13
Speaker
like almost thinking of me at that age, it's like knowing kind of the growing pains that would be ahead. I would like want to protect them from it, but I also
00:51:28
Speaker
I am so thankful for going through it all. And I would, I just wanna say to 20 year old Cal, just keep being in the moment because that's, there's always like, yeah, there's always so many lessons right there. And I probably, yeah, that's where all the lessons are actually. Probably going to avoid it is just kind of prolonging.
00:51:57
Speaker
Um, some good stuff that's coming our way.
00:52:03
Speaker
Well, Cal, I'm so honored that you came and I know it's been hard, you know, it was scheduling just for us to... Yeah, we held out for it. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so appreciative to have you come. You're so inspiring and this was awesome. Yeah. And is there anywhere just for our listeners you'd want to point out where they can find you or the bands that you're working with like online or whatever?
00:52:28
Speaker
Yeah, there's rubblebucket.com and my Instagram is calmyisworld and that's where it's kind of like where I do most of my social networking, but also Facebook, Cal Bells is on Facebook. I like your Instagram. Thanks. So again, yeah, check out Cal, Rubblebucket, Cal Bells, everything Cal is a part of is awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Peace, Cal. Peace.
00:53:00
Speaker
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Torganic Podcast, and please comment and rate the show in iTunes. It truly does help. The great musical interludes in this episode are from Cal's group, Cal Bells. Also, come visit the blog at torganic.com and at my Instagram page for regular updates on my triathlon training, fitness, vegan diet tips, and my musical happenings, whether it's with DB3, Walk Talk, The Pimps of Joytime, or many more artists that I work with.
00:53:27
Speaker
I'm excited that the Torganic podcast is now on Spotify and Stitcher as well. Big thanks to Cal. Until next time, peace.