Transcript
Speaker: Hmm. Hi, everyone. Thank you for joining me on another episode of Moments with Men. And I am sitting here today with my friend. robert william.
Speaker: And I met him recently as a teacher of land law, which I'm also interested in. That will be another episode. So what I'm here today to talk with robert about...
Speaker: The questions I ask on this podcast. What are his ideas of masculinity? and what it means to be a man. in this century, this time, this culture.
Speaker: And so I'm really interested in hearing. from him and how he got his ideas and grew into the man that he is today. Yeah. that that That I know to... To be a wonderful teacher. And I'll just let him talk about. that later on. Hi, robert.
Speaker: Welcome. greetings yeah Lizzie, how are you? I am doing well. I'm really happy to be here sitting with you today. That's good. I'm happy to be here too. and i sure appreciate the invitation the opportunity to share Yeah. It's an interesting topic, right? And what I find with most with almost every...
Speaker: man that i've talked to about this is first of all they've never been asked What these things mean. It's been given to them or proscribed or they've just guessed along the way and maybe.
Speaker: fell into a certain ways or patterns by default. you know, in a way. but maybe never even thought more deeply about it. So I know just asking you to be here today, there's some deeper thought. And so I appreciate you sharing that with us. And I'll just kind of start with...
Speaker: you kind of give us giving us some context like where are you from where did you grow up how did you grow up you know, kind of give us some ideas of how. how you started. forming.
Speaker: Your life. Well... I was born in California. I spent about two years there. before moving to Virginia.
Speaker: And then I spent about a half a year there before being adopted by my grandparents. And so then I moved to the Detroit area in Michigan.
Speaker: My grandfather was a Buick dealer. And his dad received one of the first Buick franchises from General Motors.
Speaker: So... We were considered a legacy dealership. And... So I grew up. with them. They had six of their own children. uh 21 grandchildren.
Speaker: And... I grew up as an only child because their children had already been married and moved out of the house. So... My great grandmother lived in the house with us.
Speaker: So my exposure to... let's say values Uh... were from the late 1800s. And probably the early...
Speaker: 1900s. So I really had a direct. perspective or or experience. of how those values interconnected.
Speaker: and produced stability, competence, and well -being. So... I have a model. that
Speaker: It's probably one of the most... Offensive. ye How do you... public being a white male. And coming from... a catholic patriarchal structure.
Speaker: so As I was growing up. getting into my teens and my adulthood. It was very evident. that Life wasn't going to be.
Speaker: Easy. Not that it isn't for anybody else, but these were additional challenges. I didn't feel any support really from government.
Speaker: or emerging society, the trends of of a modern world. So... It presented a lot of unique challenges that in my youth led me to a breakdown.
Speaker: But that breakdown essentially had me asking much better, more powerful questions. about who I was, what I was going to do. and where I was going to start.
Speaker: So... That's a bit about... Yeah. What age was that? What ages were the breakdown, so to speak? The breakdown was 23.
Speaker: Okay. So I was pretty young. and it was pretty severe. Yeah. Got myself into some trouble. Yeah. But... you know I was looking at the world through entitlement.
Speaker: and blame. And... victimization. So I got pretty good at that. led me into some corners I couldn't blame my way out. of or
Speaker: victim my way out of. So I started to ask. How did I create this? And that was a total inversion.
Speaker: an incentive to see a different worldview, a different perspective. And so... Looking back on it, I could see it was the beginning of a quest for truthfulness.
Speaker: Right. at How to work with what is and not what ought to be. Yeah. Well, that's, some I think. an appropriate theme for these days.
Speaker: You know? Yes. Not that you shouldn't hold ideals or that you should have some. values for what ought to be.
Speaker: but You have to. have an ability to see what is. what is descriptively Real. before you start prescribing what ought to be.
Speaker: Right. and We can get caught in there and suffer and cause suffering. if we're not careful. it's spread It's the gift that keeps on giving, too. It keeps spreading out. you know, around you. Everybody around you, your relationships, your...
Speaker: career path, whatever, right? you know and you said break down but you know we kind of use the word breakdown slash breakthrough You know?
Speaker: Because it was, if if it's worked with in that way. you know You can really get some blessings in a new direction. Yeah, I got pretty dangerously close to not. looking for the breakthrough part of it.
Speaker: Mm -hmm I finally asked a good question. How could I cope? create this or co -create it. I needed to evaluate my accountability.
Speaker: Hmm. So I think that's a big that's a big hurdle for a lot of people to get through, right? Is, oh, what's my part? Oh, what's my part? And, you know, I can take it out in this conversation. too
Speaker: because my My intention is not just, it's as through these conversations, women also hear. you know, a new perspective, because I believe that.
Speaker: In general, I use a lot of generalized statements here, but men and women, we're all kind of going around saying, "but you should be this way. And why don't you? And why don't you? And you're not doing that."
Speaker: And a lot of blame and victimization. And "I would do this. Except for you." You know, Instead of going, wait a minute, I i i signed up for this. You know, I saw the red flags before. I didn't speak to them. I was too afraid. I didn't want to hurt their feelings, you know.
Speaker: all the different ways They were kind of playing out that victimhood in relationships and that's what we're talking about. You know? between men and women. But I'd like some of the words you use to talking about your. - I'm kind of giving a few prompts here and you can go where you want on this - because the words you used about your upbringing were stability, confidence and well -being.
Speaker: And then there was a, what would you call a drift from that or a. A rebellion from it or what that get that puts you in some of these places that cause the...
Speaker: the breakdown or breakthrough And then... There's also entitlement blame and victimization. Those are... That's a contrast.
Speaker: You know? yeah Yeah it sure is. I'm sure part of it is just the natural process of children budding off the tree of their parents. and their family and finding their own way in the world.
Speaker: I know that. being abandoned. by my parents. created some confusion for me.
Speaker: I remember I was probably about four years old, maybe a little bit less. When I changed from referring to my grandparents as... you know, grandma and grandpa to mom and dad.
Speaker: And then... the other kids Uh, They referred to me as their nephew. They really wouldn't accept it. There was some resentment that...
Speaker: my birth father uh abandoned the family business. and went and did spiritual things. And so it seemed...
Speaker: Lofty. and ungrounded. And he abandoned a son. And so there was, I think, some... resentment.
Speaker: there for him. And... And living with my grandparents, I got... certain privileges and benefits. that their children weren't getting.
Speaker: but I'm sure they could have got them if they asked for them. So some of those family dynamics. were confusing for me to try to sort it all out.
Speaker: that young. So some of those pressures added. to Like you said, a rebellious. Kind of Edge.
Speaker: or dimension. To me, breaking off... And then... what I was really interested in. in my teen years was Music.
Speaker: And so... You start to have visions of getting validation. through that. and creating an identity. And I know you can... relate to how music speaks to your soul. And so it feels very deep.
Speaker: And like there's a dimension of truth in it that resonates. and And it helps you to express. yourself. So I was really drawn.
Speaker: to those things. And... I got pretty good. So that led to... popularity and
Speaker: Validation I thought it was just. life and connection, but... later I was able to get more clarity about Uh,
Speaker: The performative values. that people attach to as opposed to the intimate or interpersonal values. So... But.
Speaker: It's an expensive habit. because I took on a... a marriage. And... My wife wasn't all that happy about. traveling and performing, especially in nightclubs. and alcohol environments and things like that.
Speaker: So it inspired me to move from performance to engineering and production. And so... having a studio and equipment and payments, plus a mortgage, plus a house.
Speaker: kind of led me to alternative forms of income. And that's what got me into trouble. Uh... And so...
Speaker: that wound up causing some great divisions and threatened All right. Everything, including the marriage.
Speaker: my fatherhood with my daughter. It was, it was. For me, it was devastating. that all this kind of happened.
Speaker: all at once Hmm. Yeah, so yeah, that's... That's about the rebellion and the and the breaking off of the family. what I went through.
Speaker: Yeah, but it felt like it was going, like you said, into a place where that was, you know, music is primal. Like you said, there's a vibration, there's a frequency, feels so true. You're vibing with other people and rhythm. You know? so But you said this word express.
Speaker: as well you know where you feel like you could express of course it opens up a whole new like world Wow. So let me go back to that then. What were some of the...
Speaker: Like what did you see around you? What were some of the messages you were getting about Manhood? Fatherhood. You know? Was there ever an overt message? Someone saying, this is what it means to be a man.
Speaker: Or did you just pick it up through messaging? And you said there was this confusion. Were you able to express and talk about those things? Just kind of where were some of the messaging about?
Speaker: you know. growing up as a man in this society coming from. If any. in dating and relationships.
Speaker: It was challenging to hold the framework. that I was accustomed to. that was so successful. in our family, our family experience.
Speaker: We were very financially. Uh... comfortable. well -being was incredibly stable and attended to.
Speaker: There was a lot of freedom. in life. choices. If I wanted to do... this activity, whether it was sports or whether it was music.
Speaker: I always had the opportunity to experience my passions. And... So it just seemed like such a healthy.
Speaker: opportunity for people in their life experience. And... Uh, we We lived... close to one of my grandparents' children.
Speaker: Because... My grandparents wanted a safety net in case something happened to them. had on my behalf. And so we...
Speaker: probably could have lived in a better neighborhood. Not that this was bad, it was... pretty Suburban, middle class.
Speaker: neighborhood, but I noticed that I had a lot of privileges. that My friend group. didn't have. And I could see how...
Speaker: their parents. We're struggling with more modern issues. I mean, I didn't understand that, but I was intuitive enough to see.
Speaker: struggle. Right where we had. comfort and stability. and harmony. So those were some of my first exposures. But in dating and relations, I noticed a resistance.
Speaker: to that pathway. towards that path. And as I became... a little bit. older going through the years, I became aware that it wasn't just my local area.
Speaker: which When I was young, that was your major exposure. was like to your high school and maybe. A few high schools. around you that you meet people through sports.
Speaker: and attending sporting high school sports. and And then you form a job. uh And you start to meet people. that come from you know, these other areas. So you slowly expand. We didn't have the internet.
Speaker: back then. until the 90s, mid 90s, late 90s. So... Uh, It was confusing. i didn't necessarily understood where it came from.
Speaker: But I could tell it was there and that not only was it stable and grounded. er rooted. but it was expanding in its intensity. Mm. And then as the internet showed up in a few years into that,
Speaker: I could see that It was a geopolitical issue. that this... evolution of culture our cultural values.
Speaker: Uh...
Speaker: was becoming worldwide. So it wasn't just American culture or it wasn't just local culture. It was the... growing into a global.
Speaker: culture. Hmm. Ooh. Okay, that opened up the whole thing for sure. And I've got like...
Speaker: Two or three things I want to speak to. so or ask you about, and maybe... One's kind of going back. to childhood a moment and then to relationships and then to this geopolitical thing because that is true You know, and I think that's where...
Speaker: Where I see, right, just a lot of a lot of men in this. movement, having a hard time, you know, so why I'm doing these conversations, but If you don't mind, like how are - and I know that you've.
Speaker: I know through conversations that you've done a lot of work. You know? inner work, spiritual work and healing. So maybe you can speak to
Speaker: How you see now. The idea of your father. abandoning the business and doing spiritual things, but also that meant abandoning the child. How do you see that?
Speaker: I started out resentful. And... I saw that his life. was... unbalanced.
Speaker: There was a little bit of an overfocus. I believe it was some escapism. But... It's through the exposure to spiritual practices and disciplines.
Speaker: that I was able to find my own and become as balanced as I am. Whatever that is, but...
Speaker: Uh, in my self -evaluation. I'm a lot more balanced than... My father was, for sure. and and many other people.
Speaker: that I encounter and have these kinds of conversations with. Cause I had done A lot of work. From the beginning of that first question, my life really has been dedicated to the answer.
Speaker: And... to this day. I'm all for the truth no matter who speaks it. And I'm really... open and receptive. to you know people trying to help me with that message.
Speaker: So, yeah, so the abandonment. It's interesting how... I was resentful. about that and blamed.
Speaker: As part of my emotional confusion, trying to figure out how I fit in this family. and So... like a black sheep or something as a result of that. and A bit of an outcast.
Speaker: an awkward fit. so to speak. but with the choices I made, which led to the breakdown and end of my marriage.
Speaker: I wound up in a situation where I didn't have much interaction. with my daughter like every other weekend, every other holiday.
Speaker: as she grew and wanted to go to homecoming. and Sadie Hawkins and different things like that. They often...
Speaker: would occur on times that I wanted to be with her. Mm hmm. And so I had to accept. that what looked like abandonment
Speaker: and felt like abandonment. was just the nature of this place and the nature of possibilities that i had never contemplated. Never really had to. I'd see it in other people. but When you're young, you're or at least as a man.
Speaker: You tend to be less empathetic. You can't feel what they're feeling as much as notice the facts about their... circumstances. at So yeah, there was...
Speaker: Quite a bit of that. to work through. Imagine. You know? That's why I wanted to. to speak to that especially I would see that.
Speaker: Did you have contact with your birth father? After. The adoption? went out When I was young, every few years he would come through town.
Speaker: and stay over the weekend. But he had a... you know, like a speaking event. And so he was there for the speaking event, and then...
Speaker: while he was in town. I had some time with him. and that As I got older, And there were signs of trouble.
Speaker: I would be sent. to him and he would send me to a camp that the organization he worked for.
Speaker: had. And so that's how I really got exposure to spiritual practices. and and disciplines. Wow. I just am feeling like the... The soup of confusion there a little bit.
Speaker: You know, I mean, it's really good, like home life. so to speak, but seeing struggle around you and how do you... You know? communicate about that like be in relation about that you know when you're seeing just your friend group being in a different
Speaker: Yes. Yeah, it's different circumstances. And then this father like that actually introduces you to spiritual practices, but there is the fact that he's not there in the life. and Yeah.
Speaker: and i thought And you mentioned it too, like some of it was just, it's unbalanced and often used as escapism and not grounded. you know so I think If we...
Speaker: Maybe, however you feel about this, sometimes we're born into the lives that we need to be able to. reconcile those things or Yeah. break free of it or do better at it or whatever it is, you know?
Speaker: So. Interesting. Go ahead. One of the messages that I got in those camps. So. when Several times, probably.
Speaker: four times. Yeah. One of them you stayed a month. The other times it was like a week or 10 days. but was Buh.
Speaker: Everything I've been through makes me who I am today. And... i'm I'm in it. position where I'm struggling with adversity and emotional angst and anguish.
Speaker: And I'm thinking, how is this a benefit? but It was hard for me to trust some of the messages. And it's easy to say, well, this isn't for me.
Speaker: but There's resonance in... Truthfulness. you know People like to say, well, what is the truth? Truth is... you know a challenging concept for a variety of reasons.
Speaker: The best. explanation of that I've come across is called Agrippa's Trilemma. Okay. which says you can't find the truth and it gives you the objective reasons why.
Speaker: But then I say, well, is that the truth? There's its own... There's its own paradox there that... It's a glimpse into what truthfulness is, as truthful or as full of truth as you can.
Speaker: discern. or articulate It's just too vast. and There's a couple of different schools of thought on it.
Speaker: One is there's an infinite number of interpretations. which is true. But then... What about... objective morality, which most ideologies
Speaker: Say there is no such thing. Mm hmm. And through the perspective that truth is infinite, and there's an infinite number of perceptions, interpretations, and perspectives.
Speaker: leads to chaos and power struggle. So there has to be something better, and there is. And that's where objective morality comes into view.
Speaker: And so these are you know some of the things I had to sort through. in my life to find what occurs to me as truthfulness. Right? What is...
Speaker: Durable. What? What is... What is... truth anyway. It's supposed to be something that's true for everybody. Or how could it be true?
Speaker: yeah That limits a lot. Right. accept and and opinions or preferences. And if you don't have an objective moral foundation.
Speaker: And that's where you drift off into is opinions and preferences. And you think everything's just an opinion. You think it's moral. You can say it's moral. You hold a conviction and a belief, but what are you tying it to?
Speaker: Objectively. yeah And so, yeah, that's where. That's where I think things are the most challenging today. Right in that little... intersection of objective and subjective morality.
Speaker: And now everything, I mean, that's a whole, we can go down that for sure. But we are in a turning of ages and everything is inverted and distorted. And now we've got, you know, you can't even tell where you used to do research and on be online and see things in video. You can't tell if that's true anymore either.
Speaker: you know I find if I step back from the picture big enough. far enough, then I can see this evolutionary purpose of it is to draw us back into here. Draw us back into center.
Speaker: Draw us back into our own hearts, our own connection. with whatever is greater than, let me figure out what the truth is based on this opinion and that belief and this. person that we think is the guru or the leader or whatever. We just can't tell that right now. So you talk, I've heard you talk about spiritual discernment.
Speaker: And. Wow. what a Through all of this and the confusion and and things you were experiencing, What a blessing. to be able to go that deep within yourself at that age. at that young an age.
Speaker: You know? So you are getting a lot of different pictures of. men around you. You know, the business men, the... You know, the family, the father figure that had, you know, was now raising you, the father that was the.
Speaker: spiritual teacher, but sent you to camp, but that was good. you know Yeah, it helped me understand the value of finding the gold.
Speaker: in the experiences, whether they seem positive or seem negative. you know There are lessons and reinforcements. that are tools.
Speaker: Yeah. If you... A resentful. or angry If you can't break out of that victimization.
Speaker: Uh, That's a huge obstacle for finding those tools and using those tools. to improve the quality of your life and relations. And what are the messages we're getting? Whose fault is it that you're in this situation? You know, around, you know, and that we can put that on many different situations in life.
Speaker: So... It sounds like, also a little bit of a digression, sounds like we both have some Sagittarius in our chart because it's that secret the seeking of the truth.
Speaker: you know And sometimes that is the... the journey in and of itself. And that's the thing, you know. to Sometimes we can dip into, no, I must know the truth because I am.
Speaker: That's my my draw. It pulls my soul to find it. but then also to realize like kind of what you're saying. What is the truth? And maybe it's just the journey of.
Speaker: seeking the truth that is what i'm here for you know and that becomes its own enjoyment or purpose. you know. life's a journey not a destination i guess darn it we want to get there So good.
Speaker: Whose fault is it?
Speaker: A lot of things aren't your fault. but they are your responsibility to recover from. Exactly. That's part of that accountability.
Speaker: And in order to overcome. the obstacles or the defects in a victim lens or clinging to resentment or something like that.
Speaker: Is that... You can't. can't find the resources. eat And if you're not careful, you'll come to believe that they don't exist or they don't exist for you.
Speaker: So... That's something that's Important. more important than it feels at first when you're trying to figure out whose fault it is or what your responsibilities are.
Speaker: Yeah. over overcome it. Yeah, it's so real it's a real loop. you know And I think that we're going to get even more into that. So let's fast forward to dating and relationships.
Speaker: So how did all this Play out? You know? what What did you find in your... From the messages and the upbringing you had, how now that plays out.
Speaker: In. relationship? or did or did at that time? how it's evolved? you know Yes. Hmm.
Speaker: Where do we go? yeah So what i what I had to learn... was that you know Things were changing and shifting. into
Speaker: A value hierarchy. That was... way beyond What? let's say, our be our biology. was accustomed to previously.
Speaker: Mm -hmm. One of the examples... I was able to come up with for myself was If you... If you take...
Speaker: your family. And you just pluck them out of wherever they're at and drop them off in the woods or in the jungle. with nothing. How much language?
Speaker: Do you need to survive and reproduce successfully? So... There's some fundamental instincts and organizational principles.
Speaker: that occur by nature. As opposed to by... let's say mental puzzles. thoughts and beliefs.
Speaker: in In law, we call it mental fiction. as opposed to Uh, eternal principles. So...
Speaker: trying to come to clarity. that we have evolved society well enough. The... A whole bunch.
Speaker: of new opportunities arise for experiencing. Life. And the brief. glimpse of life that we get.
Speaker: Some more brief than others. And because there's... a near infinite number of opportunities. we can create subjective values.
Speaker: that end up in power struggles. And being able to reconcile. those differences. I guess a good example might be one that's common.
Speaker: is when the founders of the country expressed the Declaration of Independence, they said, the laws of nature and the laws of nature's God.
Speaker: so pushing religious domination or abuses aside. just the eternal principles of sacred honor.
Speaker: and the laws of nature. Trying to work with both of those. is pretty challenging and they were aware of it. So we have a human condition, which is instincts and survival of the fittest. and Catch me if you can with my dishonor. and But then you have this other.
Speaker: Sacred honor. which has to overcome those. kind of primitive or primal. messages. that we get through our body and through our nervous system.
Speaker: regarding survival and reproduction. So... Uh, I went through a lot of opportunities.
Speaker: to bump into those challenges. after my marriage. you know, dating and trying to see how family and, uh,
Speaker: and spiritual connection and happiness could occur. For me. And... what I came to believe in my youth as being necessary for stability and confidence and well -being I saw it as like masculinity was a train.
Speaker: heading in some direction in towards the future and to make sure. that we don't drift side to side in order to get to that destination. And then... The family's on the train.
Speaker: And my wife would make sure that everybody... experiences well -being and love and connection. moment by moment. So her... focus would be much more moment by moment.
Speaker: where my focus would be much more long -term. and to not be distracted by things that could interfere with our ability to stay on track and to get there.
Speaker: So... Yeah. Now understanding. modern values and and modernization of relations.
Speaker: I'm much better adjusted Uh, to those environments, but I'm less inclined to choose them. So... But so, yeah, through dating.
Speaker: Yes. There's a lot of power struggle. And I didn't want... power struggle. And so there's an incentive to go.
Speaker: to diminish my interpretation not only of of cultural masculinity whatever that is but sacred masculinity. What would I do in the jungle experience?
Speaker: with my family. if all we had was the jungle. or the forest. How do we organize and how do we survive and reproduce?
Speaker: successfully? What are the best practices? for that kind of environment and to not lose track of those foundations. As we... express the all these near infinite possibilities to choose how to express ourself and to function in this modern world.
Speaker: So... Glad I got that on tape because that's like the crux of this, of what I'm doing here. And this is what I find a lot of. of men in.
Speaker: you know so Okay, you used the word diminish. like diminish The expressions of masculinity or diminished masculinity in general. That's what I see. All right.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, one I'll just share one of the, what got me to do, what what inspired me to do this. A friend of mine had a podcast and they were talking about these difficulties with men, how you can't even really compliment a woman anymore. You know, it's has sexual harassment or women going around. We don't need men, you know, and this whole thing about not needing men.
Speaker: You know, and they even showed a clip of like little, I guess, 12 year olds, 14 year olds, you know, girls, sassy and and one after the other going, "we don't need men." You know, "we're going to grow up and not need men."
Speaker: I'm like, the population is going to end first. And then, you know. It's just, like you say, it's... it Seems like a... A geopolitical move, you know, a cultural. push because that's not natural.
Speaker: Really. and And I want just want to hear like what's been your experience of that? Maybe some true experiences in your life where that has been where there's been a true attempt through words or actions or behaviors or some relationship. parameters to keep your "manhood" down.
Speaker: yeah i think you know what i'm asking right what's been your experience of of that diminishment You know, how's it been? How's it come across? to you. for you. Is it an observation? Is it a... Yeah, an experience you've had.
Speaker: Hmm. well when I went through my breakdown trying to recover from it. Uh... Since it was...
Speaker: through the eyes of others, self -imposed. And I had plenty of warnings and I had no support. Really. So...
Speaker: How was anybody going to... Put value. in things that... I had to say So...
Speaker: What that did was kind of... give me an incentive to move out beyond my local, social circle. even the family structure.
Speaker: That I had. And... And then trying to go through dating and relations. I was getting...
Speaker: discounting and invalidation. Mm -hmm. the things that resonated that most deeply and most truthfully for me about families and marriage and stability and and things of that nature.
Speaker: So... Uh... after years of you know, what could be deemed futility. Uh, I really had to
Speaker: come up with a better way to adapt. And thrive. And so for me. That just pushed me deeper into truth seeking. and deeper into
Speaker: accepting environmental conditions for whatever they were. That's just what they are. And in order to stick with my discipline. for what I knew.
Speaker: was deepest for me. I had to impose this strict discipline. Because I'm going somewhere. right in the future. So the present had less and less.
Speaker: priority. and the directionality and the destination. became more and more important. And. In my hindsight,
Speaker: That was very primitive, sacred masculinity. Mm -hmm. Taking root. and asserting a priority over my own life.
Speaker: Right. I was going to be. take that responsibility and that accountability for myself. So... dating and relations became less and less attractive.
Speaker: As a result. And... Peace. And stability and confidence and... Those things became more and more.
Speaker: important and prioritized. And then what wound up happening was. women would approach me. and and some of the ways that they approach me and the intensity.
Speaker: that I would be approached. was very counterintuitive. Like, That was a whole new learning curve.
Speaker: Mm -hmm. For me, because it was it was very uncomfortable. Like, this is foreign. It doesn't seem right. What's wrong with them?
Speaker: And so I had to come to understand and accept. modernization and more balance.
Speaker: Uh, and modern relations. and that There was a concept I heard someone was trying to teach me. They call blank slate equalism.
Speaker: where men and women are replaceable. And they're the same. And you can't discriminate. And so I was getting intellectual frameworks now.
Speaker: for trying to understand cultural trends or shifts, values.
Speaker: So... I really...
Speaker: struggled. With that. That kind of clash. Mm -hmm. And so... I Really haven't.
Speaker: With my own relations, I really haven't engaged. relations where I would have to really compromise. The things I held. as the most truthful.
Speaker: for myself. But instead... Got to experience a lot of it through my mood and behavioral coaching. Being couples. come to a better understanding of why they felt their their challenges were unresolvable.
Speaker: and why they were stuck in power struggles. And. They loved each other. but They couldn't work through so these challenges together So I was... Very fortunate.
Speaker: to have... you know about 20 years of experience working with people individually or working with couples and families. sorting through this.
Speaker: kind of stuff. Mm -hmm. you know When I started working on myself, I was making progress and I was starting to recognize patterns. And so I would...
Speaker: you know, say things to friends. They could feel the resonance in it. They didn't understand it, so they wanted to engage it more. that turned into practices.
Speaker: i could and you know kind of create certain practices And then... I got referrals. And even though. My career was something else.
Speaker: I had a pretty... active. mood and behavioral coaching. I call it a spiritual practice because I never wanted to make it.
Speaker: A vested interest where... If I needed money that month, but I'm now trying to find somebody to hustle. yeah spiritual engagement with.
Speaker: And... So yeah, so most of my... inter -gender relations came through working with couples.
Speaker: or women individually. or men individually. But that started to create a problem because the resonance inspired attraction too.
Speaker: where women were drawn to something more deep and truthful. And to articulate some of those things clearly was something that they didn't have.
Speaker: you know much access to in their lives And so that was... part of encouraging the approaches and some of the intensity with the approaches and which was foreign to me, because...
Speaker: in my experience and how I was raised by my grandfather and that. We were supposed to take initiative and responsibility. for planning and for approaching and
Speaker: for providing and so it was. Certainly was.
Speaker: They put me in a spot where. I really knew I had things to figure out and to make decisions on how much I was willing to diminish. Hmm. All right. what I felt was sacred masculinity as opposed to cultural.
Speaker: or dismantle. And... Yeah. So... I think. That's kind of descriptively. what I went through prescriptively. what I ought to do about it.
Speaker: was to preserve my discipline. and forego some of the futility. that It appeared would be.
Speaker: reasonable to expect. Mm hmm. Yes. I really didn't want the power struggle. Because I had found so much peace after.
Speaker: kind of a childhood of distress and confusion and our Privilege. Huh. Yeah. Yeah. And the spiritual practices and work that you were...
Speaker: you know, really doing. early on you know you knew that sense of peace at least so it can be really off -putting to try to work it out in a relationship that's not that way.
Speaker: Like why? You know? yeah and at the risk of sounding sexist. It seemed like drama and struggle. was something that...
Speaker: helped women to believe there was emotional substance in the relation. Mm hmm. Yeah. No, we're being sexist here. You know, really, we're actually saying men and women and we're generalizing and we're.
Speaker: you know, kind of saying, you know. got A lot of my message is to women. I sat in the coffee circles, you know, complaining and being a victim and and blaming them. And him. I did it. I know that we do it. i know that Yeah, and it keeps the conversation going too. but but Well, let me tell you what mine did. Well, let me tell you. OK, so you're right. It's almost like it is a pattern in the loop.
Speaker: And so is that just, is it? You know, the messages women get too. you know Oh, "it's always the man's fault. They don't know anything about these things. They don't know about spiritual matters. They don't have feelings."
Speaker: I've actually heard that. "Men are the thinkers, women are the feelers." like What? You just took away. You know? and... Yeah, is that a societal message? Is it just from their experience? Because I've had a bad experience or a few in their relationships, but... i'm happy I'm glad to hear you say that that's kind of what you were seeing because that's what I see too. and
Speaker: So... So what's your response to that? or Or actually, what are some more things that, you know, in general, whether it's through your counseling or whether it's from your own experience, that are some general
Speaker: Hmm. ideas, statements. ways of relating. that I'll say women do, because that would be, you know, what's been rejected projected on you, perhaps sometimes as well. And also you have entered because of your. you know, ability
Speaker: That you could see that, okay, I need to adjust a little bit and get used to these things. But what things? What are those things that women are kind of demanding or saying or expecting? you know, in general that you've.
Speaker: Heard. Or had. The modern values for women. The movement that was most influential is feminism.
Speaker: And... Uh... So it implies... femininity. but It really... discounts for sacred feminine.
Speaker: Yep. liberates but the masculine and expression. in women. So it's more of a womanist ideology.
Speaker: than it is a sacred. a balance. I know that in religion.
Speaker: At least in my interpretation. It got a little carried away. and overemphasized. In my opinion.
Speaker: patriarchal roles. and religions themselves. drifted away from what I refer to as sacred honor. Or...
Speaker: Exclusive equity. which is a non -religious articulation. of the sacred eternal covenantal principles. Not the dogma.
Speaker: the interpretations of those principles and the implementation. as a belief system. rather than an alignment.
Speaker: And so...
Speaker: As a result of that, women became more masculine in their expression and their values. And... In order to create room for that,
Speaker: the the narratives where men have to diminish their masculinity - and granted There's toxicity. On both sides, there's toxic femininity and toxic masculinity.
Speaker: And women can be toxically masculine. And men can be toxically feminine. and part of these new advances in
Speaker: mental perspectives. Uh, They aren't aligned, but they do. They're not aligned with sacred principles, but they're aligned with near infinite possibilities of self -expression.
Speaker: So... That's where the chaos... and the power struggle. comes into play. And it's not that it's right or wrong.
Speaker: Or that it's good or bad, per se, that's all subjective. Objectively, It's just the experience you're having. and the experience others are having of you.
Speaker: and That's all it is, objectively. And that's the good news because it's... It's you're able to see it. And to.
Speaker: describe it objectively. So that's a challenge. I think that. most people have is they can't describe what's actually happening.
Speaker: They're prescribing what ought to be done about it. And so... Their focus is... insufficient for alignment and harmony and synchronicity and synergy at the deepest levels.
Speaker: Now is that for everybody? Probably not. but Are there people waking up to it and kind of craving?
Speaker: More progress in those areas? Absolutely. And I'm seeing more and more of it. things I was teaching. 10 or 20 years ago are now starting to be fairly common.
Speaker: and in different debate communities or intergender communication communities. And so it's pretty refreshing to see.
Speaker: that. the trend of abandonment. is starting to become a trend of recovery. Yeah. Yeah. Again, another intention of this, because we can sit around and point the finger forever and ever. And I think that you you spoke to it when you can't actually describe, because we're...
Speaker: We're not taught how to do that either. We're not taught how to talk about ourselves. We talked about it before today, right? Talk about ourselves and our own, our inner world. And especially men. You don't have one, remember?
Speaker: So, right. and so then if you can't describe but women don't either look the patriarchy has hurt both women and men you know women want to go no we were the only ones hurt because it's patriarchy that means men and men hurt women i'm like, no patriarchy is power over others and men and women have been damaged and hurt and wounded by that and so can we just understand where each other's coming from and then maybe instead of
Speaker: you know, turning our shoulder, you know, women are doing our work and women rising, goddess rising, all the feminine, you know, all the branches that have come off of feminism. I like your word, womanist movement instead.
Speaker: Because it becomes like that. And I sit in circles where, you know, I feel the propensity to go over to this men, you know, women are in charge now. And I'm like, what? Stop it. I can't even open a jar half the time.
Speaker: you know, so. what are we doing? And so at one point, we're going to have to just turn back around, you know, across the aisle and say, okay, what now? you know I've done some inner work. I've done some reflection. I've done some maybe looking at my part.
Speaker: And now I'm ready to figure out how to relate again in a new way. and And valuing what each one brings. to the table. And I think maybe that's this we're talking about power struggle and a high divorce rate and and all of this, you know.
Speaker: A lot of. I hear it in a lot of circles in the last few years, you know, marriage is ending. And I don't always see that as a failure. I see it as an awakening or somebody going, wait a minute, I'm not going to keep doing this. I have a you know finite number of years. I'm going to. Go a different direction.
Speaker: So who knows, but. But I i see it as... We're in this shift. you know We really are in a shift of... of allowing you know, whatever we're finding inside here.
Speaker: to come out, almost like we can't. Not. Allow it. right but it's getting in touch with it being able to describe it having a safe space to express it you know And I see that.
Speaker: Men in general don't. Women, you know, we got circles, we got women's groups, we got, there's a lot of it. But men in general don't. And then in relations, they're shut down.
Speaker: Like you're saying, especially from this kind of feminist. Outlook. and how you should be able to do this. You should be able to talk about your feelings and be soft. and do all the things and go out there and kill the beast and provide and protect.
Speaker: And. From my the paradigm of astrology that I practice, We really learn to... value all places on the wheel. for what they bring.
Speaker: So meaning not everyone is going to. to choose a role. of protector a provider. Father. You know? Maybe they're the ones that are out on the trail and, you know. going out to higher realms to get other, kind on the spiritual path.
Speaker: like you know on your like your father that was his his route not the business route And can we just value that that was... That was his expression, and this is your expression. and Like you said, instead of making it right or wrong. good or bad.
Speaker: better or worse. But there's a lot of that going on. So, Still. How do you what?
Speaker: What do we do? How do you... What's your... What's your kind of... Maybe a solution in your own life. How have you learned to relate? differently.
Speaker: You know, from that. And I heard you say it. You said, well, I've decided I'm going to be in relationships basically that don't. demand that I diminish. what my sacred masculine expression is.
Speaker: And I love hearing that. You're a man that knows it. But a lot of men don't know it. So, So what are we... what What do we do? I don't know him and how to ask the question. I think you kind of get what I'm trying to ask. for Exactly.
Speaker: to answer. that you're looking for with that question. So I heard you say that patriarchy is power over others. So that lens is a power struggle lens.
Speaker: And my experience, my grandfather didn't dominate anybody. He saw a contribution. that he was accountable for. And he went out and he provided it.
Speaker: And my grandmother saw contributions she was responsible for. and they work together in harmony. and synergy and synchronicity. and what they produced.
Speaker: you know, was I think at the time of my grandfather's death, they were getting pretty close to 60 years. of family. with a whole bunch of grandchildren.
Speaker: and children that were married. The only one who got divorced was my father. Huh. No. And so... Uh...
Speaker: I had the benefit. going through formative years of seeing what that What that? synergy that hard that complementarian approach.
Speaker: was like And as I got older and tried to study frameworks. I studied biology and evolutionary biology.
Speaker: And I saw... that that kind of that analogy. that I shared about being dropped off in the woods or the jungle.
Speaker: and how we organize and survive and reproduce. effectively and most efficiently. and I could see alignments. With that...
Speaker: with what I later came to articulate as sacred masculinity or sacred femininity. And... Most people...
Speaker: the more modern their exposure was to growing up and to these issues. the last opportunity they had to not only learn about it or be you know told about it in a non -charged or polarized way.
Speaker: but experience it. So... Trying to do. the best you can. to identify where you interpret these challenges as power struggles.
Speaker: Uh... I think is the best advice. But... I could provide
Speaker: at at a starting point. Right? you You make the distinctions between What is... you know, me versus them. or masculine versus feminine or men versus women.
Speaker: Like, That's a power struggle. and that's subjective and it is also geopolitically distributed. Yes.
Speaker: The hyper wealthy. favor this subjective interpretation, these struggles. Because you can't do critical thinking. You're in reaction. and And they give you all these frameworks.
Speaker: that appeal to your self -interest. And that's the laws of nature. That's the law of the jungle. And that is the power struggle. so just kind of orienting yourself around some of those contemplative opportunities.
Speaker: That'll turn into spiritual exercises once you feel more truthfulness in that orientation. And... We're designed to thrive.
Speaker: That way. So... You might be surprised. what occurs that you're Your mental constructs can't predict. So as I see some of these recovery...
Speaker: efforts and ambition. it brings some new possibility to me. for uh relations and relationship But I have come to accept that.
Speaker: If I can contribute to so you know to somebody. similarly situated to me when I was younger. and that the world can be a better place for them, then that is also...
Speaker: a measure of success that makes the journey worth it. and And the discipline. that I chose worth it. Yeah. Well, and how your experience can help others. And this is... you know, I was just seeing this picture of, you know, you're talking about frameworks and, you know, there's this message over here. Well,
Speaker: Again, it's just reductionist, you know, in this reductionist scientific world, right? Get it down to the three things that work for a relationship or the three roles that men should have in the one, you know, and all of this. And so, you know, you should get married and have kids and do and and do all this kind of stuff. But you should really work it out, no matter if you guys are aligned on your ideas about sacred masculinity and femininity and how to provide. It doesn't matter. Stick it out and keep fighting each other.
Speaker: You know, I guess what I would say, maybe I'll ask you, what if every man, every woman had the chance to get in touch with what they see as their own sacred, masculine and feminine role?
Speaker: No judgment on it. No good or bad, right or wrong. Just what is it? Just what is it? Tell me. And then we could sit across the table before we decide to do this relationship thing, right? And and tell each other.
Speaker: what it is, and then the other can go, oh, I get it. Great, I can work with that. Or... i don't really want to compromise that much. I don't really want to try to make that work. Thank you so much. Go on on your route and free each other to go find the ones that do align because your grandparents, not everybody.
Speaker: is meant to be together for 60 years and have all the kids. And they're not, they're meant to be the free birds and we need them. We need, we need to value the free birds and the ones that. Aren't gonna do that route As well, right? We need our places on the wheel.
Speaker: for the whole community to work. But we do need those like you're talking about, which you've defined. You know? the sacred masculine, the one that has the discipline, that has the direction, that knows where what we're doing and where we're going and how to how to help us survive. out here how to plan and get the the crops planted the whatever you know that we have to do That's that those sacred masculine expressions. You know it.
Speaker: I don't know how many other people know it You know? or given the opportunity, maybe not even asked. And maybe one at a time. We're doing that. Anyway.
Speaker: But I want to go a little bit, a couple more points before we end today. The geopolitical. cultural. messages. You know? A little bit more about that. What do you see as the trends that are really forming people's thoughts and beliefs and the way we're relating to each other?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, this is a very powerful. subject matter Good. we get little encouragement. to familiarize ourselves with.
Speaker: and less support economically and that to invest time and effort. This is another area that... benefited me.
Speaker: tremendously was going down this path of the history of governance. the history of tyranny. the struggle between strong central governance and which today is global.
Speaker: strong local government. So like... How does the government in your family work? And then how do you govern with other families locally?
Speaker: And then how do those families govern regionally? And then how do those regions govern? And so it's a bubble up. from sacred principles.
Speaker: But. when you're not oriented to sacred principles. And you're not. in harmony with those You wind up... with the power struggle.
Speaker: And that's the law of the jungle. That's animal instinct, essentially. And so there needs to be a dominance. over it And so if you're looking for a patriarchy with the definition of... power over others.
Speaker: you should see global governance. as the patriarchy. whether it's masculine women. or masculine men. or feminine men. and and feminine women.
Speaker: They're all involved. in trying to struggle for power. In that. in that hierarchy. So... When you can look at the history.
Speaker: of that. how that plays out. That's where the Revolutionary War that we've learned about came from. coming out from underneath the hyper dominance.
Speaker: Uh, of the monarchies. And. and others above monarchs. And... and return to sacred principles.
Speaker: and cooperative self -governance. And we made a big footprint on the world stage. for progress in that area.
Speaker: Unfortunately, as our animal instincts, one of them. is to gather more survival resources with less effort. So...
Speaker: If there are those who can... know that and come up with clever ways to exploit that. they can create incentives.
Speaker: for you to drift into belief systems. that separate you further and further and further from alignment. And then... You know. A couple of hundred years later.
Speaker: with that kind of pressure. we wind up in almost entirely a power struggle of competitive. ideas. or ideologies or ideologies.
Speaker: that Clash. and and create these lenses of of Power struggles. And so you can't trust, you can't communicate.
Speaker: You are argumentative. You become very materialistic. And all of that requires more dominant governance. more power over others.
Speaker: Because you can't. maintain the peace. So anyways. So... That's... Those are important things to... to understand as well.
Speaker: descriptively. Yeah. Because... it You know, economics don't trickle down, but ideas and attitudes trickle down. So this idea, you know, the big idea of dominance and patriarchy and and fighting over resources, really.
Speaker: Really? And everything that comes from that. Well, then that's how we are in our, as above, so below, as within, so without. That's how we are in our relationships and our daily lives as well.
Speaker: You know, I'm not gonna let him get over on me. You know? uh i'm not gonna let her get over on me you know whatever it is and so a lot of it just to understand i think that helps our understanding it helps you and i right we can step back from the picture a little bit and see look this isn't just as since the 50s or isn't just since you know the good old days back whenever that was. that that
Speaker: meant that relationships have broken down or whatever this is a long time coming and forming in many ways maybe not intentionally for our relationships but it's what ends up happening Because it's what we grew up in. It's what we're imprinted by.
Speaker: Yes. And we think it's a manifestation of popular interest. But there's a huge degree of training and conditioning. And... if I had a message for women about geopolitics.
Speaker: It would be. that your your sacred nature has been discounted even invalidated To the point where...
Speaker: You're actually fighting for the patriarchy that you are taught to, that you're fighting against. So... Global governance is not.
Speaker: the masculinity or the patriarchy that my grandfather demonstrated. It's the toxic. masculinity. that Yeah.
Speaker: they're so fiercely gathering together to overcome. Right. dismantle yeah Yeah. building the structures to their own demise.
Speaker: Yes. Many of us. in different ways until we wake up too. what we've been doing. So that's, I love that. you know, message because you also have a daughter.
Speaker: Yeah. So what are you what are you telling her or showing her? about sacred masculinity, and Sacred femininity, how would you?
Speaker: Maybe describe that and what are you, yeah. Giving her some. She went to university. She is... very feminism. oriented Not the...
Speaker: About the angry. bitter, resentful side, but the kind of the 50 -50. Blank slate equalism.
Speaker: replaceable. Men and women are interchangeable. Her and her husband's function have made that. work.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: I've had some attempts. trying to share aspects of law. that are based in some of those principles.
Speaker: Yeah. you know, strong global governance. and And she sees me as a bit radical in some of those areas.
Speaker: So the best. I really can do without clashing with her worldview. is demonstrate. And sometimes she gets inquisitive.
Speaker: Mm hmm. So I'll meet her. where she's at. Yeah. Yeah. but You're getting to see it play out too. You're getting to see. you know some of these ideas And did it maybe actually work? in in at least one situation again as long as they kind of agree and they're on the same Yep.
Speaker: Huh? so So first I want to ask, you know, I know that we, you know, we talked before and I always before these episodes send out a little list of prompt questions or ideas to just get us rolling. And then I know that you read them and thought about them too. And, you know, we're kind of asking me, you know, is there some places that we don't go or any so, but I want to ask you, are there some places that we haven't gone? that you'd like to go.
Speaker: And as radical as it may be.
Speaker: Actually, I think we did a pretty good job of... covering a broad spectrum. Uh, of topics. Mm -hmm. I'm sure there are details. in that area.
Speaker: But what what occurs for me first... is addressing this issue of The truthfulness about an infinite number. of perceptions, interpretations, and perspectives that arise from it.
Speaker: Mm -hmm. but imposing discipline. on all those possibilities. Right. What? How do we come up with...
Speaker: A discipline. that serves the most amount of people. in the best way So... When I try to describe this,
Speaker: I start out with myself. so I could look at today's circumstances in an infinite number of of ways. And...
Speaker: create a perspective. which would inform my decisions. and behaviors. And so if I decide to behave in this way, And it hurts me by the end of the day.
Speaker: was that... A useful. interpretation of of infinity we'll say. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe I learned a lesson.
Speaker: that I needed to learn. And it hurt. But if I didn't... then they're probably... was a better decision.
Speaker: So now what if I make the decision I made today? Hurts me next week. or next year or, you know, five years or 10 years. it's the same objective interpretation of Was it a useful decision?
Speaker: So allow now let's turn around and say. What if that decision... hurt somebody in my family later today. Or tomorrow.
Speaker: or next week or next year, et cetera. What if it hurt? a bunch of families. So we can start to see that when we impose a moral lens,
Speaker: that there is some usefulness in limiting. infinite numbers of perceptions and interpretations and developing.
Speaker: mental perspectives, mental constructs, worldviews. things like that. Those take time. And so...
Speaker: You kind of have to have that. masculine part of you looking into the future with the destination. where you stay on the tracks. And try not to let the moment by moment.
Speaker: incentives to veer off the tracks. Uh... And if you're not careful, you'll become hyper- Masculine. obviously.
Speaker: And so when you... when you start to contemplate this. you see that, yeah, it's true. There's an infinite number of perspectives. But is that always...
Speaker: The best is that always. the most useful. not only for our own growth and development and experiences. but for those of others, and even more so collectively.
Speaker: What collections do we want to be among? hopefully family, but families are. Marriages are down, birth rates are down.
Speaker: The average age of getting married, the average amount of children is below. replacement. And... So something might be...
Speaker: out of calibration. Just objectively. Right. Right. You think? And it really all comes down to. Hey, men and women gotta to get together.
Speaker: You know, to... yeah Just change the numbers. That's an objective view right there. Yeah.
Speaker: I appreciate that because I think that really describes like in general, the value of the masculine energy. the value of the masculine expression or what you, bring what. men in general bring to the table if we let them.
Speaker: I've come to Believe. which I know is mental. But I believe that. Without.
Speaker: genetic interference, which is controversial. But without it, men are biologically wired. to be more efficient. with the train metaphor.
Speaker: And... So that's part of a sacred gift. Now, can it be distorted? by less mature Expressions of masculinity, absolutely.
Speaker: Right. And. which is funny that makes me think that The masculinity. that's liberated in women. seems to be toxic masculinity in many cases. Thanks. But that's... evidence of the power struggle, right? And the patriarchy.
Speaker: And... So yeah, they're helping. to build a toxic patriarchal structure. dominance over others.
Speaker: So anyways, that I would offer. you know, that kind of exercise to orient yourself around this infinite possibilities of interpretation and self -expression.
Speaker: etc. But what about... a moral discipline. and to reach beyond subjective morality. and try to find objective models.
Speaker: Which isn't easy. starts to lead towards scripture. and scripture. was...
Speaker: Arguably. developed before religious organizations gathered around it. And so... uncorrupted sacred scripts.
Speaker: are by people of goodwill and good faith. who are discovering sacred honor. and struggling to articulate it in a way that people can.
Speaker: orient around the words and begin to discover it for themselves. And because those scripts led to... Let's say religious tribalism.
Speaker: that led to religious warfare. again, turned into a power struggle. And so a language by... people of goodwill and good faith was developed.
Speaker: That was in a non -religious context. so that it could reach across tribalistic boundaries, which today are all the ideologies are tribalistic.
Speaker: can reach across all of that division. And... communicate in a way that resonates. spiritually and avoid those kind of...
Speaker: mental constructs. social constructs. And it's called exclusive equity. And so... The power hierarchy has taken that word equity.
Speaker: and has created derivatives. One is, well, in the court, you have executive, concurrent, and auxiliary. But...
Speaker: You also have financial equity. People are taught that equity means how much money I have in my home if I sell it over what I owe. And then now we have social equity, which is equality of outcomes.
Speaker: where some people are privileged, some people are oppressed. and etc. So exclusive equity excludes all those derivatives because it's really expressing sacred.
Speaker: eternal and covenantal principles. In language that's non -religious, so it doesn't trigger the tribalism or the resistance against organized religion and and the perceived abuses.
Speaker: that have occurred of over dominating religion. Mm -hmm. Wow. Well, I will say When you speak that, when I hear you talk about that, it's exactly what you're talking about. There's that resonance. I'm like, this is true. Like it it's really deep. you know.
Speaker: and the scripts you're talking about. goes They go definitely go back before our... modern day structure of religion is religious. whatever, religiosity, religionism, whatever. Yeah, and then they've come through many other... cultures and practices and really Saying, in essence, the same thing.
Speaker: You know? It's in you and you are the sovereign being and you have the benefits of the. Oh. earth that we've been. given, planted on, born into.
Speaker: So what you're teaching and what you're saying is definitely resonant to me. And brings us to... What you also said about, you know, the having the contribution I make in the and having responsibility over that, for that.
Speaker: bringing it forward. And I find that that's a struggle for a lot of just. And that's what we're here to talk about today. ... men. men in general. Maybe what they feel.
Speaker: What they want to express, what they want to bring forward, what they know is their contribution, perhaps, what they know it deeply, perhaps, right? But it's not accepted, rewarded. There's not a receptacle. for it.
Speaker: you Right? That's the masculine feminine energy. I have this to give. Where's the receptacle? You know? where Where is the feminine receiving? You know the contribution.
Speaker: of the sacred masculine. We're all like blocked up. yeah Well without excluding other cultures or races of men, historically,
Speaker: white men We're the most resistant to tyranny. So... to dismantle them, disempower them, outcast them.
Speaker: And... Uh... And break up families and... And... synchronistic inter -gender relations.
Speaker: make them unhappy and alienated and uh feeling it invalidated, et cetera, is one of the most powerful weapons. of clearing the way.
Speaker: for hyper dominance. in in central government. And... So yeah, I would... ask people to think about Some of that.
Speaker: as they navigate these unlimited infinite number of possibilities and perception and interpretation and and formulating perspectives.
Speaker: mental constructs, maps. worldviews. most people don't even consider what's their worldview. They just kind of get drawn into one political perspective. or ideological perspective or another.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. There's been a big effort, and and I appreciate you speaking to that. I always say they don't spend trillions because it doesn't work. They spend trillions because it works, you know, in in all those things that you say. And then there's hormonal and diet and air, you know. all kinds of things it's against.
Speaker: Really, the man. The sacred masculine. Like you say, being the one that is the most resistant to tyranny. So... I value you. I appreciate what you're bringing to the table and hopefully reconnecting. Many of us.
Speaker: Men and women. But hopefully really, I mean, you you really put together, I'm glad, i like I said, I'm so glad I got this recorded because you put together many concepts I think about and that are that are talked about.
Speaker: you know, in much more lengthy ways. And you just... brought it right down into a nutshell for us because you're very I know you're very attuned to the language and the words that you use, so you're really able to put those ideas together. For me.
Speaker: I appreciate that. And. So I'm going to end with, you know can you wrap it up? What is your, and you've said it throughout this, but you know, these questions. What is being a man?
Speaker: Mean to you. And this... Day and age time. culture.
Speaker: Uh... Oh. Some of us are keepers of deep ancient wisdom. that has substantial value.
Speaker: It's a substance. not A mental fiction. And... attacking it. And... making it invalid and obsolete.
Speaker: is Uh, an awful selection of infinite possibilities. And I know a lot of men...
Speaker: are hurt deeply.
Speaker: by that because they're not allowed to
Speaker: They don't have a pathway. that is inviting and supported. to grow in that capacity. And so that they can...
Speaker: earn the ability. to grant those gifts. Hmm. Let the world benefit. from their generosity.
Speaker: I love that Thank you.
Speaker: You're welcome. I know you have a class to teach. that I'll be in. Yeah. 10 minutes. Yeah, that's good. but No, it was a great opportunity and I appreciate you.
Speaker: you know, kind of opening The gate. to have kind of open unrestricted dialogue. about these kind of anti -political, anti -ideological...
Speaker: perspectives. That's it. That's great. and Thank you. More and more necessary. Fantastic. Thank you. It's my honor Yep, my pleasure.
Speaker: Thank you Robert. Yep, you're very welcome. Thanks to your audience for getting this far. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. All right. I'll see you next time. Yeah. Bye bye.
