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GPT Recap with Race Director Joe Dorph!
428 Plays2 months ago
Hi Peak Pursuiters!
Listen in to this race recap episode for everything that goes on behind the scenes when it comes to putting on an event like GPT100. From the origin story of getting the event off the ground, the massive logistics involved in a point to point 100 mile, and the sort of thinking and decision making that goes on when races have to be stopped early for safety like this years event.
We hope you have enjoyed listening to this years Trail to GPT and it has sparked some motivation to go check this unique event out next year!
If you have enjoyed listening, a rating and review on whatever platform you are reading this on would be hugely appreciated :)
Happy Listening!
Joe: @joe_runs_trails
Sim: @theflyingbrick_
Singletrack: @singletrack_events
GPT100: @GPT100miler
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/hartzmann/clear-sky
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Transcript
Debrief with Joe Dorff
00:00:18
Speaker
Hello and welcome to a special episode of the Peak Pursuits podcast, finishing off our Trail 2 GPT series with a bit of a debrief with the top of the chain, the man himself, the race director. I'm with Joe Dorff. How are we doing, Joe? I'm good. How are you doing? Good. Good. We're both slowly caught up on some sleep after a rather chaotic weekend.
00:00:40
Speaker
Yep, feeling basically fresh today. Not great on my own. I'm feeling very unfit, but I'm gonna get there eventually, so. I can imagine that your own running was probably the furthest thing from your mind over the weekend trying to preserve that. Yeah, I've accepted that I just don't run at all on event weeks anymore because it's too hot. It's too hot. Yeah, there's ah energy going everywhere else.
Origin and Inception of the Grampians Peaks Trail Event
00:01:06
Speaker
um And yeah, the I think it it it always amazes me and I actually do love being part of behind the scenes of the running or like the helping out at these events just to
00:01:16
Speaker
know that even when I'm out there racing I do know actually how many people are going without sleep and over with a lot of stress just so we can be out there on that trail so it is um doesn't go unappreciated I hope by everyone but that's a bit of what we're here to chat about and get through but the first thing what everyone's going to hear today is we're going to get an origin story of GPT because it's a pretty unique and special event ah and it's so recent because the trail's only recently been fully built. So a bit of that origin story and then just some of the behind the scenes and obviously this year didn't quite go entirely to plan but had a beautiful finish and still so many people got some amazing trail time out.
00:02:00
Speaker
in the Grampians, which I'm sure everyone is incredibly thankful for. ah But we'll run through ah a little bit of the decision making that goes on that is um heartbreaking and difficult at the best of times. So that's what everyone has to look forward to. ah But to start us off, let's go back to the beginning. When did the idea for this event come to you? So ah like I'm not I didn't grow up near the Grampians or anything. I actually only went there in 20 I think it was 2019 or 2020 with my wife, Vic, and we just went for a holiday. And I i think that was when I first heard about the Grampians Peaks Trail opening up. ah It was still being built at the time. And I think probably like every other ultra runner who knew that it was gonna be finished soon was thinking, oh, that'd be fun to run.
00:02:53
Speaker
in one go. um And so I actually thought probably someone like Pics and Drows or someone would just put it on or they already had it in their pipeline to put it on as soon as it opened. but um Yeah, basically it opened in about a year after that, I think. um And then straight away, you know, like Julian Bower and Gwenan ran it um as an FKT and established that. And then a few others have done, did it, did it afterwards. I know Nick Montgomery and Simon Duke, Gwenan did it. um
00:03:29
Speaker
So yeah, people were pretty keen.
Collaboration and Planning with Singletrack
00:03:30
Speaker
So it made a lot of sense. And I was sort of still only just working a little bit with Colin at Singletrack at the time. But um yeah, he doesn't need, he just needs the smallest idea and he'll go so hard on it. He's like the hardest working guy in the world, honestly. um And so yeah, I was like, oh, well, you know, Grampian's picture is open now. Like it'd be cool to do a race.
00:03:55
Speaker
um along the whole course. It's 100 miles. It's super obvious. so i It would not have happened if it was just me. i was just I'm not the kind of person who gets things off the ground or I'm pretty lazy and that sort of thing, but I'll work hard at once it's going. But yeah, Colin was like, let's get it done. Let's put on this race. um And he was very, very interested and very keen. I don't think he knew it. He had no idea at the time how hard it was going to be. It's like the hardest race to put on, point to point, with that many A's stations and just that terrain, like no access. It's it's pretty full on, but um I was like, yeah, cool. I'll go. And so I basically organized with Madge to go and Steve to go run the trail, check it all out and try and
00:04:45
Speaker
just get an idea of what the format could be and what the aid stations could be and all that. And my mum and dad helped out with that a lot, which was very nice. They actually came and crewed us at every, you know, all of the the current aid stations along course. Oh, how good's that? They're legends. um So I guess a little bit of credit should go to mum and dad, who has also been helping out with the event since then as well.
00:05:10
Speaker
um Yeah. And it was just an incredible run. Like we had the best time. We did it over three days and I was just like, Oh man, this is such a good trail and couldn't believe how good it was. Um, I think I was, I must have been pretty fit at the time because I remember it not being crazy challenging. And then the time I was like, that's such a good run. It's not too hard, but it's pretty hard. And now I'm like, that's such a hard trail. I don't know how people run it.
00:05:38
Speaker
But um yeah, I think we were also just cruising. like We did it over three days, but our total time on trail was pretty slow. It was like 36 hours or something. you know so yeah okay Compare that to the stage race winners who are doing it in 19 hours. We like took our time.
00:05:57
Speaker
Um, which is probably the best way to do it.
Growth and Impact of the Race
00:06:00
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I just knew that if we put it on, you know, even if only a handful of people came around it, that it would eventually grow to be a pretty famous race just cause the trail's so good. Um, and that's what it's doing really now. I think people are coming and seeing it and the word's getting out and it grew a good 60% this year from last year. And.
00:06:25
Speaker
I would be surprised if it didn't grow again that much to next year. um So yeah, that's pretty much the origin story. Like I think it's just a bit of an o-brainer. I have a feeling that we weren't the only people to think of putting the GPT on. um I know there were other event companies pretty keen. Those ah those expressions expressions of interest in late 2020, which we managed to,
00:06:54
Speaker
to win. So yeah, I'm pretty lucky to have it. and And we'll do our best to just keep it going for the next. Yeah, for sure. I think, well, i like, as you say, as a no brainer, and from the get go when I first saw this was happening, I was injured.
00:07:11
Speaker
and not really running much at all for the first rendition. And I was sitting at home with the most FOMO um um because for me personally, this trail is just everything I love about trail running, but it is definitely not easy. And I think it is the sort of terrain that because it's just slow terrain, if you're trying to move slow, it doesn't feel so hard. But if you're trying to move quick, it feels impossible.
00:07:35
Speaker
so It's a beautiful trail to hike, and I've actually been meaning to just hike it over 12 days. And that still would be really hard to do, I think. like Yeah. Carrying a pack and hiking it over 12 days. I mean, you still got to hike like 20K some days, and it would be so hard. Like you basically go to a hike from Borough Huts to Mount William on one of the hiking days. That would be a big day. and It would. Even just hiking it over 12 days,
00:08:05
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's a big achievement. So I'd love to do it. But yeah, it is a lot more and enjoyable if you're going slow. I do. Yep. Really pushing and you're trying to get get the best out of your time. But it's um yeah, there's probably a balance there where you could do both and be you know quite fast as
Event Coordination and Date Selection
00:08:25
Speaker
well. And, you know, I don't know, I'm sure some people have have had an experience like that. But I think if you yeah, if you don't try and fight the terrain and and you just find a flow, you're probably actually not moving a lot slower than if you're redlining. um Yeah. I think even in your, I think I remember in your podcast the other day, you even said like, you're trying to keep your heart rate low and just keep moving smoothly and you probably won't. That's exactly my experience. Yeah. Like I wasn't fighting the terrain. I was trying to flow through it and like going, I'm not pushing anywhere near as hard as I would
00:09:04
Speaker
if I could, and but also how much faster I would be moving if I was trying to push, I'm not sure yet. Yeah, yeah. Keen to come back and find that out, but we'll get there. um So when it came to sort of, obviously you had the idea, the event, no brainer, we want to get this event on on this beautiful trail. um The first steps, obviously there's there's all these negotiations that go down in terms of dates, permits, all these sorts of things. um And when it comes to sort of picking dates for the first rendition of these events or when you're going to be in the year, what actually goes on in sort of determining that and the conversations with parks and the options you actually are given? um Because even I have no idea of this one.
00:09:49
Speaker
Yeah, GPT was probably a lot lot harder than any other event for us in terms of like picking a date. Parks, Victoria are way more involved than any other parks event that we've done, like for the Grampians region. I think it's because the region is just so significant.
00:10:09
Speaker
um We had pretty big blackout periods around like the basically October, November period, like the the prime periods where there are a lot of people out on trail and a lot of tourists around. So basically like March, April and September, October sort of time period. So that we we basically had the choice of either like late May or or November onwards was kind of our two choices. We could have done it like early early March, but the main problem with that for us is Buffalo Stampede is such a huge event and it takes such an enormous amount of organization and to have our two premiere events within a month would just be way too much on our own.
00:10:55
Speaker
on our own small crew. So it basically came down to late May or or November. um And we couldn't we had to do it after the public holiday in November. So um yeah, we we didn't have a lot of weekends to work with. um We could have done it the weekend after the long weekend can in November, which is what we're actually gonna do next year, the sixth to the ninth. But um at the time, we had a roller coaster on in late October and we wanted a bit of breathing space from that. um And we, well, to be fully transparent, we had we had roller coaster, we had plans to expand that event and make it a more of a,
00:11:45
Speaker
like a bigger festival and with longer distances and stuff. So that's kind of been parked. So at the moment that's not an enormous issue for us to bring GPT closer to to roller coaster, but it was at the time it was. Um, and so yeah, there's, there was even more considerations like winter is probably even more dangerous than then like November, I would say, like there it can get super cold. And just, yeah, we'd have to mandate so much warm gear. And I think it's the Grampians is probably more of a hazard in winter than summer, um even with the snow and just the higher landscape and the storms. And yeah, it wasn't really an option. So basically came down to that date that we chose, which I think was like 21st of November or something.
00:12:37
Speaker
ah we We could have done it either that weekend or the weekend before. and That was basically super frustrating because the weekend before was GSCR and the that weekend was Alpine Challenge, which are the other two big 100 miles in Victoria.
00:12:52
Speaker
yeah um you like we would It was like, which one should we do it on the same day? It doesn't really matter which one because they're both going to be affected anyway. and Then as well, Cozy was like two weeks later. so all four big milers were in the same time period.
00:13:10
Speaker
um Yeah, and that's that was basically the decision-making process, I guess. um It was, make sense yeah, it was not easy at all. um And, you know, we actually did like a ah public date approval, like announcement thing before we even like locked in the dates, like an expression of interest kind of thing. Okay. No one had any problem with the date. And then once we had announced it, all of a sudden, everyone had a problem with the dates. But look, I, I don't know.
00:13:45
Speaker
if I just think Australia, my personal opinion at the moment, I've actually been talking with other event organizers about this and we're kind of on the same page. I think that the sport has grown like by five times in like 10 years. you know So there's just so many more people running trails now, way more events, and you just can't avoid other events anymore. There's ah there's an event every weekend of the year. And if you look at it in context to Europe,
00:14:10
Speaker
I've, there are literally, I've seen, there are literally races that are different events completely on the same trail, crossing each other on the same day. You know, it's like, it's insane. Like Western States, Mobile Marathon, Laverator, we're on the same weekend, on the same day.
00:14:29
Speaker
So that's the nature of the sport in a way. And also there's now enough runners, I think, to sort of spread between the events because every event has a cap on the number of people that that trail can actually handle or that event can handle. um So yeah, I'm hoping people spread the love still. And I think the grassroots events will always have a lot of like I still mostly just run the smaller events. um Yeah.
Logistical Challenges of Multi-race Coordination
00:14:57
Speaker
But yeah, I don't want everyone to just concrete congregate around the big big events and I guess how the big events as well. But um yeah, I do think people will. I hope that entries are still going up in even the smaller events.
00:15:13
Speaker
um And some of them are so good, some of them are the best. so yeah yeah And some of the best courses are definitely the smaller events, especially like around Victoria, like some of them are incredible. so Yeah, exactly. So it definitely keeps spreading the love and it's awesome at each time of year, every year you have different options and you can go around and try all these different trails, which is Really, really cool. ah When it comes to trying GPT, um it's awesome that there's there's a lot of options in terms of no matter what distance runner you are, somehow you've managed to make a hundred mile trail accessible to anyone, essentially, because there's the, what is there? There's the stage race relay. There's the stage race. There's the miler relay, the miler and the 50K. That's a lot to handle.
00:16:03
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of layers. we I think we're are now, this year, sort of realizing how hard it is to have the miler and the stage race running concurrently. Yeah. It's so much work. A lot of different shuttle driving shifts that need to be thought through very accurately and drop bags and just so many things going on at once. And aid stations setting up and packing down and then setting up again a few hours later. it's like Yeah, things things are funny, things are hard to get your head around. um The scheduling of the event event ah from a crew and volunteer perspective is an enormous work. um But I think we got it pretty dialed this year. I think most things went pretty spot on. um But yeah, it's a big one. and
00:16:55
Speaker
Yeah, you're right. Like a ah somebody who's a little bit less experienced on trails can do that stage race team relay and run 10 to 15K a day for four days and get it done. um And it won't be impossible. It won't be super hard. So I love that event. But again, it's and it's another, um it's a very limited event because everyone who does it needs to have their own car and we can't have more.
00:17:23
Speaker
you know, really realistically, we shouldn't have more than 15, 12 to 15 cars showing up at Cassie's Gap, for example, to wait for their next runner. um Plus all this blade race crew. So we are limited in the trailhead capacity at GPT, which is which we're trying to work around three different ideas and shuttles and stuff. But every time you add a whole new shuttle shift or whatever, it's, it's a lot more work and probably extra vehicles and Yeah, people people would be amazed. People would be absolutely blown away by the cost of this event. It's pretty insane. So yeah, we're trying to trying to figure it all out and make it all work cleanly. And I think that the first few years is is always a bit of an experiment. Yeah, yeah, steep learning curves. And yeah, I can ah knowing a bit a bit about but the behind the scenes, I can only imagine the cost of
00:18:19
Speaker
the logistics of a ah point to point where your base has to move, you're essentially setting up four different finish lines for each stage. And um I know at least, like I know ah quite a lot more about the medical side of things, having been part of the medical team and doing some of the crazy long shifts that are required for an event like this. um But even from our end, it was the first time I've ever experienced an event where we had to move the medical base to be as close as possible to the runners to for a safety.
00:18:48
Speaker
um factor there because normally the medical base is just the start finish of a loop and that's a lot easier to handle for everyone involved. That's for sure. Yeah we had the start and the finish line of the myelin but for some reason the event village is not at either of them so it's three different places that you need to pay attention to and Yep. um Then you got to move everything down to Dunkeld at 2 a
Handling Extreme Heat and Safety Concerns
00:19:16
Speaker
.m. or 3 a.m. on Friday night. So it's yeah it's a it's a pretty interesting operation. But very cool to try and problem solve. and um yeah And the scheduling, I don't know, we've thought about it so many different times. And I think we almost, I think we might have just nailed it first year and there's not much to change. I can't think of and and um another way to actually get it all done.
00:19:40
Speaker
Yeah, without clashes and things like that. So it's pretty pretty complex. Yeah. Yeah, definitely complex, but it was incredible to experience how, for obviously, and even when the race had to be cold, but all the way up until that point, there's sort of an amount of teamwork and volunteer hours of actually making it go off fairly, other than the fact that Mother Nature had chucked you possibly one of the hardest weekends to make this thing happen um when it came to just the changing weather and the forecast and everything.
00:20:15
Speaker
black The actual running of the event was so incredibly seamless and I hope it appeared that way from the runner's point of view. I know it wouldn't have felt that way from your point of view because you're the one dealing with all of the perhaps little spot fires, I imagine. Yeah, pretty much constantly. um Yeah, this event, for some reason this year, there just seemed to be a lot of things going wrong. um Not actually during the event, like the race, but from the Thursday to the Tuesday before the race, just constantly, just little things going wrong. But we so managed to get out around all of them. um Colin is amazing at just getting things done.
00:21:03
Speaker
problem solving and he's an absolute pro and he doesn't get enough credit for the work that he does. But um yeah, I've never seen anyone get so much stuff done in a day and he's just constantly just telling everyone what to do. So um yeah, we managed to get it to a really good spot and we were ready to go Wednesday afternoon and and happy with it all except for the 36 degree forecast on the Friday.
00:21:30
Speaker
um but yeah it it I felt like this year it actually went pretty smooth like after that. like ah From a participant point of view, I think it would have looked pretty pretty clean. yeah There was way less scrambling last minute than we had to do last year and at most of our events.
00:21:52
Speaker
Yeah, it is just a constant scramble, but I don't think anyone anyone has ever had a seamlessly perfect event. I think the closest we've ever come would have been probably Hounslow this year. Just everything was working perfectly for us. and um Nice. Nope, pretty much. So on that Wednesday, when everything sort of you're like, okay, event starts tomorrow. We've got things sorted. We've got first brief done and all those sorts of things. When you are looking at that,
00:22:24
Speaker
like Because the Thursday was already going to be hot, but you've only got the 50K and the stage race running logistically a hell of a lot easier. um And then when you're looking at that 36 degree forecast on the Friday for the milers to be starting at midday, what does go through your head and what conversations are actually had behind the scenes to sort of go, okay, hang on, how are we actually navigating this? Because that, I think 36 degrees from what i from what I've heard from people that day was hotter than any day last summer, pretty much in that area. Like it was an unprecedented sort of like, it can get that hot there, everyone knows it can. um But the fact that it did and was going to and then there were storms coming afterwards was not not something that you would foresee or would think is the usual because it's not
00:23:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think one of the problems was that the Friday and the Saturday had such high forecasts. so And even this originally this Sunday was also going to be really hard. That ended up changing quite later, like on Friday, the forecast for Sunday got a lot better.
00:23:34
Speaker
And in the end, Sunday was actually kind of like a nice day. Well, it was raining, but it wasn't hot. It was humid out there on Sunday. I went running. It was humid, but it wasn't like a heat wave. No, it wasn't. Not by a launch up. And so I think the fact that Saturday was so hot and it was actually forecasted to be the hotter day on the Wednesday. So like on the Wednesday, we were more worried about the Saturday.
00:24:00
Speaker
So the idea of moving the race later, um, didn't make much sense because you've been pushing it into Saturday, um, which is the hotter day. And then also the idea of moving it earlier just means that the most of the mile and field is going to be out there for 48 hours or like at least until Saturday night, say, for example. So if you move it earlier, you're basically just making everyone run through the the body of the heat wave. Um, yeah.
00:24:28
Speaker
If you started at 6am on Friday morning, that means basically everyone's running through two complete daylight hours of two absolutely stinking hot days. And so we thought, you know what, we've thought we've thought about it a lot. in The midday start originally came from a heat management point of view of like trying to avoid the heat of the day and the more dangerous sections of the course.
00:24:54
Speaker
um And so that it didn't feel right to change that last minute, because then all of a sudden the whole field would be going through, you know, Mount mount William area and the daylight and the heat, which is the most remote area of the course. And also the area where a lot of the runners were, ah where we ended up having to cancel the event, um which was another factor in it, because they were all heading out on the Major Mitchell Plateau at 10 a.m. in the morning on a day that was going to be 35 degrees. so Yeah. That is just the worst spot for a runner to be and luckily we were able to call a lot of the runners who were heading down, who were about to head up onto the plateau, about 6K from the aid station, um from Mount William aid station. They're about to head up the big climb and we called it just in time to probably get, I think about eight or nine people out that out from there down an access road.
00:25:49
Speaker
done before they headed up. So that was one factor in the call. It's like people are in the worst spot right now. They're all basically where we don't want them to be, um the body of the field.
00:26:02
Speaker
but we yeah We'll get to the decision a bit later. but yeah so The 12 p.m. start, we just trusted what we'd already thought through for two years in that you know it's the idea is people are starting cold. They're starting, yeah, sure, it's the heat of the day, but they're fresh and they're ready to handle the heat of the day rather than eight hours into the race and all of a sudden it's 36 degrees and that's when you can have really big problems. so I was hoping people could get through to the night pretty unscathed and then recover. Two problems with that is that it didn't really drop at night. Like it got down to like 25 degrees and like yeah we're still, ah you were at Rosia car park, it was probably hot there. Yeah, it still was. Even getting there, super hot. Probably all of them were probably still needing ice at midnight.
00:26:54
Speaker
So people weren't recovering overnight. So the the theory of them, you know, getting through the heat of the day and then recovering overnight was completely gone. um But also, I think it was just so hot that Friday afternoon that even though they were fresh heading up Mount Difficult.
00:27:13
Speaker
And they're all pretty good runners because, you know, they're running the miler. People were still just getting, still just getting absolutely hammered, um, by the heat, uh, even, even at 9 PM m on that Ridge line. So yeah, the afternoon heat didn't drop off and the heat. And I think in hindsight, we probably could have moved the start time later, if anything, by a few hours. Um, but I don't know how much of a difference it would have made.
00:27:40
Speaker
Yeah. well Yeah. Like on the Wednesday, the the theory was let's not change anything for now because when Saturday is the hot day, we're not going to avoid that.
00:27:51
Speaker
And as I said, there's theory in the Midday Star. Let's just trust it. And yeah, that was the thoughts on Wednesday. The Thursday, we were less worried about because, I mean, to be honest, we were probably less worried about it because the forecast for Friday and Saturday were so hot that Thursday didn't look as hot. But at the end of the day, it was still a super hot day. But I think the fact that we only had 25 DNFs over the 250 runners shows that it was hard, but we probably made the right call to not change anything too much. It was probably just caught cool enough that like yeah yeah like any drastic changes to the event.
00:28:37
Speaker
I think being out there on the Thursday, um we got a worse deal in terms of direct sun because the Friday was overcast, which probably in some ways made it feel hotter. But we were up over that Mount Difficult plateau, like indirect sun. But I think what the Thursday did for the Friday was all that rock. um I think it wasn't that hot leading into the Thursday. But yeah I can only imagine like I felt the heat radiating off the rock on the Thursday and it didn't get a chance to cool And then once you're up there in 36 degree heat with the heat radiating off the rock and from above and like, yeah. Because from um being in, obviously the whole way through, I mean, I get all of the medical chat and we get all of the, it it runs really smoothly. We get every single person that comes through an aid station with anything wrong, looking any in any bad way whatsoever, or any DNF comes through our medical treatment log. So we get to see.
00:29:33
Speaker
even though we're further down the course, um it like what's going on earlier in the course so we know exactly who to check in on as they get to us. um And the crux of what went sort of what was people were struggling with on that Friday was that section from Gar Trailhead to Mount Difficult and then getting into Mount Difficult Aid Station, not in a great way already, um which I think it's just it's almost impossible to like navigate heat that is quite that hot. Well, yeah, that section of the course is always going to give us headaches. And next year, like, I think we basically decided that we're just going to have, well, we did it this year, but we're going to have to formally hike in a lot of water from the aid station as far as we can go in, like, you know, probably six K or something. Yeah. With that, you know,
00:30:30
Speaker
probably on the Tuesday or something. um yeah Just have it all there hid somewhere and then hike and probably a medic and also volunteer volunteer out to it yeah on both the 50K and the Myla.
00:30:44
Speaker
yeah because the she it's just so It's just impossible to get in there, which is a shame. There is one access point ah called Long Point East, but that you can't even walk it at the moment. It's supposed to be a four-wheel drive track and it's super overgrown. We can actually check it out. We did a scope on it and it was just not possible. And so, yeah, basically, luckily we started walking water in.
00:31:09
Speaker
on the On the Friday, we had about, I think we had six of our people and two medics walking water in for Mount Difficult, um which yeah, that was probably a bit of a lifesaver to be honest. I know a lot of people used that really well and probably got a lot of people to Mount Difficult Road. um So that was great. But yeah, we'll probably formalize that as a proper water point with some yeah lollies and stuff for next year.
00:31:38
Speaker
Yeah, and then we also had the extra aid station ice water point that couple mind track which no one actually knew about until they were running you Did you know that? So I knew about it, but I was actually told at the race brief there was going to be two extra aid stations and that there was going to be one. I hadn't run the section of trail from Guard and Mount Difficult. Yeah. So being out there, as I was out there, I was like, there's no aid station coming up. This is completely inaccessible. yeah And then I knew it was like, OK, you've got to get to Mount Difficult, which is which is fine. Was fine for me because I was
00:32:17
Speaker
I just you just have to play it smart and manage your effort um for sure but yeah just for context for people that haven't been there or seen any of this course it's it this is we're talking about a 20k section of course from 16ks to about 36 um roughly um of the course where it's it's just super technical rock all on a camber you're not landing a helicopter you're not getting any driving in like there's there's no access except on foot. um And so that was just where it's a very, like it's a 20k section that took me two hours 45. And so therefore you extrapolate that out to the milers in the back of the field, they're spending, geez, what was it like, five to six hours in this section at times for the very back. So it's fully exposed to the sun and the heat and
00:33:09
Speaker
you've got the rock. So it was just a section that on the day, because of Mother Nature, just even people that did manage it well, um I didn't meet a single person that came into my aid station at 60Ks at Rosea Car Park many, many hours later that didn't say they started cramping 20Ks in, which is on the climb up to Mount Difficult.
00:33:30
Speaker
Um, and that nausea was a problem in the sun and the heat and therefore the getting the fuel down and all those sorts of fun things that we have to learn to navigate as trail runners. Um, they were happening to everyone. So the front of the pack, the back of the pack, it was all the same, but what happens is that as the back of the packs coming through, they're just having to deal with it a lot longer because of the time out there. So I think walking in walking six Ks in a lot bunch of water, that's an hour, two hours for some people on that terrain.
00:33:59
Speaker
um that you're making sure they're hydrated for. So I think that's a brilliant idea. Just a lot of work. Yeah, I mean, as a thing, like, we'll do it next year. um But we'll probably have to do it before the event. And it's not really volunteer role. So I mean, probably a role for like 10 people to go do and spend five hours doing and that's, you know, that's, that's 50 hours of paperwork. So Nothing's free, but it's definitely worth it for that. I think it would save a lot of people. Oh, 100%. I think we just have to do it. Yeah, we've always been a bit annoyed about that section, of course, because it's just so hard and there's no access. If it wasn't so rocky and technical, I think people would be fine, but it just slows you down so much. It's just like,
00:34:49
Speaker
difficult section of the course, well named, I guess. Not difficult. Yeah. But yeah, we've got, we've got this to manage that. And yeah, next year, I think we'll be even more well equipped. So yeah Yeah. But yeah, the I guess in terms of if we want to keep, do you want a to talk about the cancellation or should we? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. we Because this was I suppose we've pre-looted to the fact that that was where everyone struggled. They're running into horse gap as it's getting dark um and starting to. Yeah. We had a lot of DNFs between like the start and horse gap way more than last year. Yeah. Was it 40 or so?
00:35:30
Speaker
I remember how many there were a to host GAP, but it was, yeah, it would have been a lot. um And that was a good sign that people were pretty shattered um already. And I was at least it's the nighttime. Um, and then we got, uh, we actually had a safety marshal up at the pinnacle. Um, and he was calling and saying like, tell people to take more water from whole scat. Like, I know it's not, but they're all getting here and they're already out. And he's like halfway through that section. And it's probably the easiest section of the race almost.
00:36:04
Speaker
Yeah, and we were like oh man people are still just getting hammered out there, so um Yeah, we were telling people to take more from whole scap and trying to get but people were just running out on every leg. It's like People don't learn. I was supposed to run on every single leg. He ran out of water and he was dehydrated. And I'm like, just take four liters if you need to. like like yeah Unless you mandate a three litre refill, most a lot of people will just take one or one and a half. And it's just nowhere near enough in those conditions. so
00:36:40
Speaker
um Yeah, I think like we could mandate a three-liter refill at every aid station, and we might even do that next year, but it it sounds ridiculous. And I think a lot of parameters would be like, what do you mean? like I would never carry more than one liter.
00:36:55
Speaker
as As someone that was at the next aid station after Hall's Gap, which is only taking people one to two hours, and the number of people that came in dry and dehydrated and still showing signs of heat stroke, even though it was midnight or 2am or our cutoff was 4.30am. Sometimes when it comes to the middle of a miler when someone's struggling, you have to make, I completely understand the race directed decisions of mandating stuff that save people from themselves.
00:37:22
Speaker
Because even as a runner myself, I need to be safe from myself sometimes, because you I made the poor decision of only taking a leader from Mount Difficult to Hall's Gap, going it's downhill, and I ran out. I do it all the time. Like, I'll be out there post-marking. Actually, this literally happened, and it's a good example of the manager again. This year, I had to mark the section from Mount William to Jimmy.
00:37:44
Speaker
And the day before was 35 degrees and was crazy hot. And so I was like, I'll be fine. I don't need like a thermal. I took a jacket that day. It was like windy and raining. And I actually all started shivering pretty early on. And I was like, this is really cold. And I actually had to like bail out. I totally had to get like Colin to come pick me up. I bailed out to boundary gap.
00:38:07
Speaker
They had to do like an hour drives to come pick me up. Oh, no. Like i'm I should have had all the manager gear on me. If I had had a thermal, I probably would have been fine. Yeah, yeah. but If you're not told what to take.
00:38:23
Speaker
Even the experienced runners, you're genuinely not always thinking straight, which I perfectly understand as a runner. The problem with events like this, where the logistics are already so hard, even if everything goes to plan,
00:38:44
Speaker
is that if you get enough people on the course making poor decisions, it affects the people making the good decisions because all the resources then get pulled to the people that are not looking after themselves as well or haven't prepared as well, aren't as used to the terrain or the trails or anything. Pull the resources to the point where there's not enough resources for.
00:39:06
Speaker
someone that is perfectly looking after themselves, but has a fall. And that's sort of what the medics and everyone's meant to be there for is those off events that occur on the trail. No matter what, there was still people with broken limbs at this event. Unfortunately, it's what happens on technical trails. But what was, what was occurring was that just so much of the field had heat exhaustion, heat stroke, and problems going on that it was there.
00:39:35
Speaker
any poor decision made by one runner was actually being made by many runners because that's just sometimes what happens out there and you reach a critical mass of that happening. Yeah. So like Borough Arts, I ended up basically going there and telling the volunteers like, yeah, everyone has to live with three leaders. Just like, don't let anyone leave unless they're like ready to go. They're feeling good.
00:40:00
Speaker
and and And I know the medical team, there you guys had a pretty low threshold for DNFing someone. We did, yes. and And so we were doing like basically all the right things, but at the end of the day, it was just too hot, like a 36 degree a day in the Grampians on that rock. I think we got people probably as far down the course as we could have safely gotten them. um And it was just a point where your, the medical team was pretty, pretty stretched in terms of like, um, like just working hard. Like there was people, you know, either you would have been fine, but at the same time, if we, if we had to send more people to local surrounding hospitals and stuff, that's when they start to get stressed out as well.
Ensuring Runner Safety and Future Improvements
00:40:45
Speaker
Uh, and if you get to a point and it can happen, you get to a point where all of a sudden five people have got rabbit or something.
00:40:52
Speaker
Yeah. like to do to And that's when you can see people. I mean, you're playing with wahas at that stage. So. Yeah. Yeah. And these calls are always made before that happens to avoid that happening because I think. Not always, but they should be. Not always. Not always. you But that's like everyone got away from this one safely. It was fine in the end. But I think sometimes people also don't realize that is it's not just the medical resources of the event that we have there, which was endurance medical services. It's the local health resources, which we're in a remote area. They're small and they can't, they're already dealing with a lot of local heat stroke and the things they would normally be stretched by on a weekend like we were handled to then be further stretched by us sending people to them but as a race going on.
00:41:40
Speaker
Um, it was getting to the point where we were reaching the critical mass of that being able to occur. So it's it's not just this one event as an isolated thing and the medical staff we had there. There was, we, at all points for everything that did occur, there was enough. There was what was needed for what was going on, but you just, you reach a point where you go, okay, if in the next hour, three more people go down in a very critical way, do we then have enough staff and do we then have the ability to send them further for the tests that are required because the local hospital, it's a weekend. They don't have the doctor on because it's a very small hospital and yeah all these things go on behind the scenes. The limitation of our event is that even like the the closest being very well equipped hospitals, Ballarat, which is I think in the future, we'll really consider that as like one of the places to send people.
00:42:33
Speaker
if they've got the time to get there because I think that's worth it um and that was not really on our radar this year, but Horsham probably the second biggest one and even that is kind of not the not big enough for an event like this. like ah It's funny how far it is to some of these hospitals. Grampians is in a bit of a awkward spot. so yeah We did receive um um message from some of the local hospitals stating concern for their capacity to like for us to can continue the event and when you get that message you don't have to cancel there's no like mandatory decision there or anything but
00:43:14
Speaker
Certainly, if everyone's conditions continue to deteriorate and it becomes bad, then we're on a real problem because like we've already received like hospitals saying, hey, like we've we've got we've got capacity issues. like Yeah, whats now like don't, don't make any it easy. And if you get that, there's no local hospital to send someone to, if things go down in terms of their capacity, then you reach very, very big problems very quickly. And I think, yeah, yeah we didn't actually get to any crazy big problems, but the, I mean, there actually was one runner who did go to hospital with rhabdomyosis is actually, it's, I don't want to say it's common, but it's not.
00:43:59
Speaker
It's probably the biggest risk in trail running. I don't know. you yeah Would you agree with that? I think, yeah, like, otherwise it's, it's easy to go edge and get it. And it is a pretty bad thing to get. And it can survive pretty quickly to to cause, you know, not like it can kill people pretty easily, but it it doesn't often get to that point, but.
00:44:21
Speaker
if If someone gets into bad heat stress on top of a mountain Mount William or Dodo, it is eight or 10 hours until you're in a hospital at least. You're not getting help quick. And and that's when things like Rabdo, you just don't play around with them at all. No.
00:44:40
Speaker
You don't play it. Yeah, definitely. And um foreseeing the future in terms of this way, that when this decision was made, we knew that it was cooler. We knew that storms were coming in. That being said, it was cooler. But to someone that's already been running for almost 24 hours in heat.
00:44:57
Speaker
I was still seeing people very dehydrated, feeling the heat, even though it was much cooler than the day before. um At um ah foot and an aid station, well, it like I think it was 100 and something K's in, but also we had a storm coming that night with a lot of rain and very quickly for a stressed body, hyperthermia and heat exhaustion can become hypo.
00:45:19
Speaker
because your body doesn't have the resources to actually thermoregulate properly. And the changes in temperature and those sorts of things catching people off guard is when people do forget to put thermals on. It's when things can like, we obviously don't know what would have happened had we continued, had the race, you continued the race. But just because it was getting colder doesn't mean it was getting better at that point.
00:45:44
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Like it's so easy to flip as soon as it starts raining and especially once nightfall comes, yeah, there could there would have been a lot of very cold people out on the trail that night. Very cold, yes. ah And yeah, when you're on the end of your um When you're at the end of your thread hanging by a tether, like anything can kind of flip you over the edge and people are just fully, fully on the edge of their thread. Like we had another safety marshal up at the seven dials and he texted saying people on 10 a.m. Saturday morning timely texted us sort of as we were making the decision and he was like, people are shattered. He literally said that.
00:46:25
Speaker
He's like, I think that actually scared me more was he said, people are shattered, but they're very strong willed and they really want to get it done. And that's almost an even worse science. Like, well, if they're shattered and they're stubborn and they're going to keep going no matter what, that's the perfect storm of knowledge. I will say almost none of the milers that I had to stop at $112K or whatever I was when the decision was made.
00:46:52
Speaker
kicked up any fuss. They all kind of went like okay. Thankfully I didn't stop. Yeah. Definitely want to thank all the Mylerunners for the kind of words. I only had people coming up to me or emailing me saying like, thanks for making that decision, Mike.
00:47:11
Speaker
like It was pretty rough out there and they totally understand. and yeah like I know there's a bunch of people who got to one of the evac points and they're all standing around and one guy pretty much collapses in front of him. They're like, well, yeah, okay, well, probably a good idea that we didn't keep going. like Yeah. um So yeah, I mean, definitely made the right call. We weren't like, I'm still 100%. I'm still pretty upset that people couldn't get get get to the finish. I know. Last aid station for Sungae. Well, we didn't even list everyone. I think it's the most appropriate that Sungae didn't finish. but yeah Yeah. It would have almost been a bit sore if one person got there and no one else did. But
00:47:54
Speaker
Um, yeah, like I'm just upset that basically we have to call it. It was pretty disappointing, um, to have to send that message out. Um, and there was the thought of like, Oh, should we just like delay it and wait for it to cool down and start everyone again? But I think it just gone that far. And yeah people stopping the milers and restarting. an option Yeah. So.
00:48:21
Speaker
We did let people run the stage four if they wanted to and if they're feeling good. 13 Hardy Souls took you up on that. I was amazed. them Yeah, that's pretty amazing. But yeah, hopefully um people can can move on to the next big goal, I guess, and put that put the finish line behind them. But I think people can be proud of where they got to. 100%. 22, 23 hours on that trail, no matter, even if you're standing around not doing anything. that's yeah It's a long time to be out on that trail. and Pretty much. hard But it also, extremely far away to go. like That was the other point, is that not even the winner had finished yet. We weren't even halfway to the cut off. The but yeah majority of the field was halfway through the race. time Yeah, I think we had runners on 80Ks of trail.
00:49:11
Speaker
If we've already had that many DNFs and it was looking that bad with not even half the race done, yeah, it's it's a long battle to get to the finish line from there. so um I guess that's basically all all there is to say about it. Yeah, for sure. And we still got to end on a high because Sunday conditions were lovely. The stage races all got to go off. Thirteen of the milers managed to sleep, get back up and then run the last 30K, which blows my mind. um But the finish line at Dunkeld was still a very happy place the next day and the weather gods had been kind to for the last day, which
00:49:53
Speaker
a little bit late, but that's all right. Yeah, that brought the spirits up a bit. um Yeah, like there was just, there were just the, there was just no reason not to, I guess. 100%. Yeah. A little bit of rain. Yeah, it was humid, but I think a little bit of rain just cools people down. And um yeah, it was pretty safe conditions, zero chance of thunderstorms. Like there was nothing that could go wrong and medically not a lot did go wrong. And so Yeah, I think it worked out really well, getting the stage race over the line. um And yeah, it was good. Gave it a good vibe, good finish to the event. It would have been a real shame if Saturday was the last day, I think. but Definitely, definitely. We finished on the high, and I do hope that every miler that was out there comes back to try next year. And you've been dealt a horrible storm and rain for the entire race, and then some horrible heat. So third time lucky, I hope.
00:50:52
Speaker
yeah we say Yeah, the event is a little bit earlier in the year next year. It's as early as we can possibly go. um So the sixth to the ninth of November. And that's just got a good feel about it. I reckon it's nice. twenty two I was going to say, I think even that weekend this year would have been perfect. Actually, in memory yeah, it was good. But funnily enough, one of the local guides had it has a ah photo of their deck of this, I think it was one of the afternoons and it's covered in hail from this year. Oh, okay. We don't want that. We don't want that, but it was probably just the one for the last.
00:51:31
Speaker
Good. hopefully but it just ah It just shows the unpredictability like what two weekends earlier there's a deck covered in hail and then we get a 36 degree day followed by a much cooler rainy day like it's mother nature at the end of the day and it's such a beautiful varied part of the world that that's that's the hand we choose in trail running which is makes it Part of it is part of what makes it beautiful. Last year like as well, we had cold, rainy thunderstorms. And then the weekend after actually was like 38 or something. It was incredibly hot. And we were like, I think we were happy with that. Yeah, yeah. Rainy thunderstorms. On the whole, I think thunderstorms and rain are a little bit easier to deal with than just how hot it got. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:52:21
Speaker
um And it is unusual. like I don't want people to think that it's just going to be like Western states where it's 40 degrees every year because it shouldn't be that hot in early November. No. It's average of like a high of 25 is the average in November. so Yeah. like I think we've just been unlucky. It should it should be not pretty reliable weather at that time of year, as reliable as you can get in the Grampians anyway.
00:52:50
Speaker
So yeah, it' this it's not in California where it's just coming every day. That place is insane. No, but you've got two different learning curves of how to deal with the cold and the weather and now with the heat and there'll be that many more lessons and contingency plans in place next year that This event's only going to get bigger and better, and I hope everyone still get absolutely gets around it. I think running the 50K to me is the perfect sweet spot. If you get to run on the Thursday and then cheer the milers on, enjoy the weekend in the Grampians, I got to go for another run at Mount Abrupt. like I think the 50K is are a really good deal out of this whole thing, um for sure. So it would be awesome to see as many people as possible there next year.
00:53:36
Speaker
ah But yeah, what are you most looking forward to for next year? Like, is that some of the, putting in place some of the lessons or just a hopeful repeat with some better outcomes? No, we've done a bit, we've done a little bit of a debrief and we've got think things to change, but um not a lot. Like, I think, ah like if I could just do next year again, if I could just get next year out of the way next weekend, I'd probably do it.
00:54:01
Speaker
like It saved us a lot of work. like i think I think what we had this year planned and most of the event went pretty much pretty much perfectly in how I want it to be. so um yeah like A lot of the same, but yeah there's obviously things to improve and we've just sent out the survey so if people can put in their feedback, that'd be great because that always helps in improving the events. and There's always so much to improve. if we Like it's impossible to nail an event that's this big and it'll never be done perfectly. um But yeah, it's close as close as we can get it anyway. yeah But yeah, theres there's definitely learnings. But all in all, I was pretty stoked with it. And I think we'll have plenty of people coming next year.
00:54:54
Speaker
I certainly hope so. Because everyone everyone I spoke to was still so stoked on the time they got to have out there. like There's no way to not enjoy some of these views and trails. and like There's nothing else like it in Oz. So it's a one of a kind. And I certainly hope it sticks around for many, many years to come, even though it is a beast of a logistical nightmare. one Don't worry about that. yeah It'll be around for a long time.
00:55:21
Speaker
um Yeah, it's just too good of a race. So um like that trail is just gonna sell itself. And if we we, the good thing is we had some pretty pretty big international runners come this year. And I think for for like an Asian athlete, it's not a big flyer to come down to Victoria. And I think, yeah, I think a lot of like, we really wanna bring a lot of like Chinese, Japanese, Korean,
00:55:50
Speaker
I did notice that Janet of Itra was in presence. Can you talk about that one? ah Yeah, so we we know her from Hong Kong 100. I did the Hong Kong 100K in January, so I met Steve and Janet. Colin came over as well, so we we met her and they were keen to come down for an Aussie holiday. They brought their friend Dom as well, who I also met in Hong Kong.
00:56:14
Speaker
And um yeah, they had a great time. Awesome. He loved it. Steve was injured. So he um basically volunteered the whole time. good You need need plenty of those for this one. Yeah, but I mean, she's the president of ITRA. So pretty important person to have around and good person to know. So yeah, good.
00:56:38
Speaker
So hopefully we can get her out to more events because she's a nice lady. Yeah, definitely. Very good runner as well. So she run the 50K and pretty good time on her age groups. Awesome. andy um Yeah. so Awesome. Well, I've already taken up a lot of your time, um but do you have any parting words for those that were there this year, those that are going to tackle it next year or just anything about the good old Grampians, Garroward country?
00:57:08
Speaker
Oh, what are my parting words? Oh, haven't I said it all? Nah. Probably. Yeah, look, i think I think everyone who came just knows how amazing the trail is and is probably going to come again. I think probably for us, I mean, this might be a boost in numbers from the amount of people that we didn't let finish, who now are going to want to come back and finish again. So that was unintentional marketing from our outside. But yeah, we'd love to have everyone back and complete the journey. I want to run the journey with them, but unfortunately, I think that probably have to wait a few years until... I was going to say, at some point, you'll have a well-oiled machine that allows you to do that, surely. and We'll just hire... Maybe we'll get AI to be the race director.
00:57:54
Speaker
Um, but yeah, nah, it was, it was pretty special out there. And like that trail, I don't know what it is about it, but some points along it, I just like, I just want to start crying. It's so nice out there. Oh, I'm with you there. Like there's so much solitude in some places and the actual trail of building quality, I think I just appreciate it so much in some sections where like it's so engaging. Like I get a little bit frustrated sometimes running around bright because the trails are almost too smooth and easy to run around there. It's like, yeah, you just can't run anywhere without being fully zoned in to the trail. Otherwise you'll trip over. So yeah yeah, come and experience that. And um it was pretty amazing again to hear everyone saying that they reckon it's the hardest race going around. So
00:58:48
Speaker
Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I think if that if if you want to come try and do, you know, one of the most technical 100 mile races you can do in a very inspirational route from point to point, then this is the race for you. And yeah, what ah what an incredible trail, north to south. I know. A mountain range couldn't ask for a better drink.
00:59:12
Speaker
I second that. like This is a trail, I think, every every person that loves Mother Nature, that loves trail running, that loves just moving through some beautiful nature. It's worth coming to experience and it's worth it at whatever capacity your body is currently ready for. And you can put the preparation in for. like it's an ah It's a trail and an event and an area that is just Like you can't describe it until you've been there to experience it. So I encourage every single person to think about it, to look at the different options that you guys have and slowly ah make the plan to get out there because next year is going to be hopefully just as incredible as this year with a beautiful finish line for everyone.
00:59:55
Speaker
That's right. Perfect. Awesome. Thank you so much for your time, Jo. It's been so much appreciated. And I hope everyone gets just a lot of lessons just about what goes on behind the scenes and what went down this year. And yeah, looks forward to many, many beautiful trail races in the future from you guys. That's right. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.