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Sophie Broome | Pushing Boundaries in Trail Running and Research
345 Plays15 days ago
In this episode of Peak Pursuits, host James Sieber sits down with trail runner and researcher Sophie Broome. Fresh off her record-breaking win at the Archie 50k, where she placed first female, second overall, and set a new course record, Sophie shares her journey into the world of trail running and her passion for science.
From her roots in the UK to her move across the globe to pursue a PhD in New Zealand and now her work in Melbourne alongside renowned Professor Louise Burke, Sophie’s story is one of curiosity, resilience, and balance. We explore her standout performances at events like Four Peaks, Ultra Trail Kosciuszko, and Ultra Trail Australia, as well as her approach to training, racing, and finding joy in the process.
Sophie also opens up about her research in women’s health and performance, offering valuable insights into how science and sport intersect. Whether you’re a runner, a researcher, or someone looking for inspiration, this conversation is packed with lessons on stepping out of your comfort zone, embracing challenges, and thriving in life and sport.
***Don’t forget, use code PPP at https://bix-hydration.myshopify.com/en-au for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits! Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
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Transcript
Introduction of Sophie Brew and her achievements
00:00:15
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Peak Pursuits podcast. My name is James Sieber and today I'm sitting down with Sophie Brew. Sophie is coming off an incredible run at the Archie 50k, coming first female, second overall and setting a new course record in the process.
00:00:32
Speaker
She's also coming off a first place finish at the end of last year at Four Peaks, as well as other very impressive results at Ultra Trail Kosciuszko, Ultra Trail Australia and Surf Coast Century, just to name a couple.
Sophie's journey: From UK upbringing to PhD and research
00:00:44
Speaker
As you'll hear in this episode, 2024 was a journey of discovery, stepping out of your comfort zone and discovering the love of the process for training, which enabled these incredible results to happen.
00:00:57
Speaker
We're also going to dive into Sophie's background growing up in the UK, moving to the other side of the world to study her PhD, and now how she finds herself working in the same research lab as the world-renowned Professor Louise Burke, working on and being exposed to studies looking at women's health and performance.
00:01:15
Speaker
This conversation with Sophie was incredible. i learned a lot, and I know you all will too. Definitely stick around to the end to hear more about Sophie's research at the moment and how it can impact all of us and have very relevant takeaways.
00:01:29
Speaker
With that, let's get to the episode with Sophie Broome. Thanks very much for having me. Happy to be here.
Reflecting on Archie 50k and future plans for Buffalo Stampede
00:01:36
Speaker
Yeah, I'm very excited. it's um watching We'll come to the results and you're running a bit more later on, but I've to say, looking at the results for Archie, it was amazing.
00:01:46
Speaker
A very impressive run, especially by sounds without a crazy amount of specific training going into it. So I am curious, how are you feeling now or post Archie? Yeah, I was really happy with how things went on the weekend. and I have had a little bit of a busy period in life in like really good ways um over the last few months, and moving house um and like being on holiday over Christmas and and things like that. So the lead up into the Archie wasn't ideal, and not very much sort of like vert training or anything, i still managing to get a few kilometres done each week, but
00:02:27
Speaker
I would say I was going into it feeling like I was maybe a little bit undercooked. and I always find February races really hard to prepare for because, you know, Christmas and kind of can sometimes get in the way if you're on holidays and stuff. So, no, it was a really, really good day. and I actually hadn't seen any of the course before except for the summit up to Mount Buller.
00:02:50
Speaker
So I really wasn't sure what um kind of time I was going to be able to do. and But, yes, kind of got to the halfway point and realised was sort of on track for the time that Kelly had run the year before. and And that kind of gave me a bit of extra motivation to get up the hill to Buller and back down again. And she was waiting at the the final aid station. Oh, nice.
00:03:14
Speaker
That was even more, yeah, motivation. and And yeah, I was really, really happy with how it went. And at the end, I was really chuffed. feeling okay this week. um The plan was to try and continue just training straight through because I'm signed up to do the 42K at Buffalo Stampede.
00:03:33
Speaker
um So with the consistency lacking a little bit in the last couple of months, I just kind of wanted to and try and train through this week. So a little bit tired, very hungry and all of this week, but ah the legs are not too bad and I've managed to get out for a few runs. So, yeah, it's been a good one.
00:03:52
Speaker
ah That sounds, I was partly expecting you to say I'm absolutely trashed. So that's a very good result having seen what you kind of, at least knowing that Buffalo was your next event coming up. But like said, before we dive into the nitty gritty of all of that, because Archie especially is one that I've done and of course that I love. So I just really want to hear your your story of it. Let's just start with...
00:04:15
Speaker
introducing all the listeners to who Sophie is. Kind of just give
Transition from sports interest to academia in New Zealand
00:04:20
Speaker
us your background, your transitioning into running and obviously from the accent they will tell that you and I share something that most people will not.
00:04:28
Speaker
Yeah so yeah similar to yourself I'm from the UK originally and and I grew up sort of in the northwest of England so um a small town called Adlington it's pretty close to Manchester very grey, very rainy, all the classic stereotypes of ah and an English town.
00:04:48
Speaker
um And yeah, I've always absolutely loved sport. and You name it, I've kind of tried it. and And running has always sort of been a part of my life, but not really in any sort of like super serious way.
00:05:04
Speaker
and My sister and I would always take part in the local cross-country and fellow races and usually come dead last, but we were always smiling and enjoying it and And then was also a little bit of a nerd growing up, so I really enjoyed the sciences and subjects in school so um I decided to kind of amalgamate those two um passions and I studied sport and exercise sciences at university and after I got my undergraduate degree um I moved over to New Zealand to and take on a PhD over there in sort of a similar topic so I was in the nutrition department at the University of Auckland and
00:05:48
Speaker
And ah my sort of research group or the lab I was working in was sort of interested in, i guess, sort of like understanding and some of the mechanisms behind different diseases related to metabolism. So like type 2 diabetes, obesity, insulin resistance.
00:06:05
Speaker
um and understanding how and different like nutritional ah exercise and pharmacological interventions can help to improve health in people with um those types of diseases.
00:06:20
Speaker
um So I had a really good experience there. And then once I finished that just after COVID in 2022, I moved over to Melbourne because ah Melbourne is kind of a hotspot for that kind of research as well. and And so now I work as a postdoctoral researcher at one of the unis here in Melbourne, um continuing on that sort of and research trajectory as well. so Brilliant.
00:06:44
Speaker
um This is... the The one time we've met in person was at Four Peaks last year and sat down, started talking to you and immediately was was like, I just want to pick your brain because obviously it's such a such a relevant area in your research now to what we're doing. But it's yeahs very, very interesting to listen to.
00:07:03
Speaker
I'm curious, what was the process like getting into your PhD New Zealand and why New Zealand? Yeah, and so... When I went in to do my undergraduate degree, like a lot of people who go in to do an undergraduate in sport and exercise sciences, i so I thought I wanted to work in high performance sport as a physio or something like that.
00:07:24
Speaker
And after doing some work experience in a hospital as a physio, I realized I would make an absolutely terrible physiotherapist. And yeah, i'm not very good with like broken bones or dislocated joints and things like that. They really creep me out. So I wouldn't have gone very far down that career trajectory.
00:07:44
Speaker
And so I, but as part of my undergraduate degree, i had to do like a research project in my final year. And I just really enjoyed that. I talked to it really well.
00:07:55
Speaker
And my supervisor at the time asked me if I would be interested in doing um postgraduate study with him. So PhD or something like that. And initially, I think at that point, I was just feeling like I was a little bit ready for something new. I've been at uni for four years and I was ready to ah kind of try and go out into the world.
00:08:13
Speaker
um So I said no and um I went off travelling for a few months and I think with just a bit of distance I had a bit more perspective and I thought maybe it would be something I would be interested in but and yeah I was travelling and I really enjoy that side of um things as well so I sort of thought I didn't really want to pursue that in the UK.
00:08:39
Speaker
So I there's only a few places where you can study your PhD without getting your master's first. And so like New Zealand, Australia, Canada would be um some of those places.
00:08:51
Speaker
actually applied to quite a few different and different lab groups um and had chats with a few different people. in the area and then um I just, um so somebody from the University of Auckland who ended up being my supervisor got in contact with me and and said that hit my CV had sort of come across his desk and they had a project, would I be interested in coming over to do it and so We had a really funny interview where I was like in a hostel in Argentina somewhere with really bad internet connection.
00:09:25
Speaker
But we clicked really well. And I think because I was already sort of away from home, they thought it would be a good, and like I would be a good candidate to come and do an international PhD.
00:09:37
Speaker
And so, yeah, then I moved over there in 2018 to go and do that. And haven't really looked back since. That's quite, Having done the move myself as well, it's it's quite a significant uproot of your life to come across. Did did you struggle at all with with the move?
00:09:53
Speaker
and I really, really landed on my feet. um I had previously um ah previously done a year of study over in Canada as part of my undergraduate degree.
00:10:05
Speaker
And so I had moved um previously. And as as part of that, I met um some friends who later ended up moving to New Zealand. and And so when I landed there, they said, and you know, if you need a place to stay for a couple of weeks while you find your feet, then that's fine. And then and Yeah, so I had some friends who were already living over there and they really, um it was a soft landing, i would say. yeah So I do i wouldn't say I struggled too much. Of course, it is a big a big move, um but it worked out really well.
00:10:37
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds sounds very much like it was meant to be as much as one can say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's awesome. And going through all that, I'm also curious,
00:10:51
Speaker
I didn't run when i lived in the UK and so I never got to experience fell running. Yeah.
Explaining fell running and its unique aspects
00:10:56
Speaker
Comparing it to what we do here and i I'm sure there's people listening that won't really know what fell running is.
00:11:02
Speaker
Can you give a quick explanation of what it is and what it's like to race those events, even if you were quite young? Yeah, yeah, for sure. and We spent a lot of time actually at these fellow running events. My um parents were i really into it. So we would often spend our weekends being dragged ah to these different events, camping somewhere. And then just as crew usually do, waiting for hours for your runner to emerge into the finish line and then swiftly going on into the pub get the pub grub a few pints in.
00:11:38
Speaker
obviously not for me and my sister but yeah that's so british i love it yeah yeah it's really it is a really cool community so bell running is sort of um unique to the uk um particularly around sort of the lake district which is close to where i grew up and um it's it's like a ah cousin to trail running I would say um most of it is um so it's sort of unmarked courses and you're supposed to navigate yourself um to different checkpoints um and it's just about taking the fastest route really um so that can be straight up the side of a mountain that doesn't have any trail there at all um it's usually obviously being northwest of England very muddy very wet awful weather um a lot of the sort of
00:12:27
Speaker
weather events that might cause courses to be changed over here in Australia wouldn't ah most fellow runners in UK wouldn't really bat an eyelid at that. um Yeah, so it's a cool ah cool community and the people who do it are just so they're just regular people who, you go often back to their four bags fives.
00:12:53
Speaker
So they're all very like humble, humble people. Yeah, lovely. It's <unk>s definitely it's something that i I would love to go and experience. I watch some of the the highlights of races there or hear people talking about it. and It sounds like just pure madness, but great fun.
00:13:08
Speaker
Yeah, it is. And like, there's just such a great community around it. And like things like the Bob Graham round, which is starting to get more and more famous with, you know, really talented runners setting amazing times on there. But I mean, every week there are people out there who, um you know, have crew who go and run this huge round around all the and peaks in the Lake District. And people will come out and crew them or give them, you know, information and help on it. And so, yeah, it is. the <unk>s a really nice nice thing from back home have you earmarked any of those famous rounds to go back and do at some point
00:13:45
Speaker
Yeah, I would love to and My dad actually did a Bob Graham round quite a few years ago now. um So that is something that is in the back of my mind to go to go back over and do it.
00:14:00
Speaker
and I'm actually supposed to go back home next year for a friend's wedding as well. And so my sister and i are going to sign up for another race, which have to do in pairs. So and we're going to do one of the bell races over there when we go back. So Yeah, actually, i mean, I was doing it as a junior and then sort of fell out of it. And now that I live over here and I'm running all the time, and ah look back on some of those things and think like, oh, yeah, that would have been really cool to do while I was living there.
00:14:28
Speaker
Yes. I have multiple things like that as well. but i guess that's part of different stages of our lives. That yeah kind of transitions
Sophie's trail running journey in New Zealand
00:14:37
Speaker
nicely. it So it doesn't sound like you did a lot of running or you running it wasn't part of your life that much going through university times. When did it come back for you?
00:14:46
Speaker
Yeah. I mean... i I did it as a way to sort of stay fit. So like running like 10K twice a week or something while I was at university. um And I did the Leeds half marathon one year and I was there. So and it was just more as a as a way to be active and stay fit.
00:15:06
Speaker
And it was very, and you know, it's pretty and good for the time commitment. and You get a lot of bang for buck for going for runs. So yeah,
00:15:17
Speaker
But then when I moved over to New Zealand, and it was actually a participant in one of ah the research studies that I was running over there um who became a really good friend of mine. um and he was big into trail running um and actually during the time that he was in the study we um he asked me if I would like to come and join them at a trail running race and just on the outskirts of Auckland um and then from that it was a really good way to meet new people being obviously an expat over there and and gradually sort of got more into it over there and I mean New Zealand is ah an amazing place to
00:15:57
Speaker
um take up trail running like the scenery there is just absolutely mind-blowing so um yeah i really got into it when i was doing my phd yeah beautiful do you remember what the race was the your first one It was part of like a ah trail running series, and similar to the ones that we have here in Melbourne, where they'll have like five races over over the winter months.
00:16:20
Speaker
um And it was the first one I did was out at this national park just outside of Auckland called Shakespeare Park. um And yeah, and then I did a few of the other ones and then gradually snowballed into what it is now, meeting all with friends every weekend to go and do these awesome, awesome runs.
00:16:38
Speaker
Yeah. What year that start? Because when i was looking at some of your results, it doesn't look like you did anything that at least is recognised by UTMB until UTA 2022.
00:16:51
Speaker
twenty twenty two Yeah, um I wasn't really doing much of the and what many like high profile races or anything like that. My training was still, you know, and it it still wasn't something that was super serious in my life. It was just a way to be social and see the country that I i had moved to. And obviously with doing a PhD, there's time constraints around how much you can train and things like that. So, yeah, i am didn't.
00:17:19
Speaker
I did do just before um ah while COVID was sort of, while New Zealand was in lockdown for COVID, I did the Tarawera And yeah, then from there, I sort of, I really enjoyed that. And then I started looking at some of the longer distance races um and then I moved to Australia in 2022.
00:17:42
Speaker
and that's when I and um actually got a ah coach when I moved over to Australia. And that's when, yeah, things started to snowball a little bit. and since then, the racing and training and things has been on a bit more of an upward trajectory. And was that...
00:17:58
Speaker
Was Ben St. Lawrence, who's your coach now? Is that who your coach was back then? Yeah, no. I originally was being coached by Anna Frost. um She's an amazing, yeah, amazing Kiwi trail runner. She was fab and she really helped me ah just, like, increase my volume a lot and and learn a little bit more about, and you know, like,
00:18:24
Speaker
like how to race things as opposed to just run things. And so she was really, yeah, really good. But eventually I, yeah, changed to being coached by Ben.
00:18:36
Speaker
A lot of Ben's um athletes would beat me in races. And so I thought this guy clearly knows something that I don't. So, yeah, and that's when I signed up with him. How did you get connected with Anna in the first place?
00:18:48
Speaker
um Well, I just knew of her because obviously all trail runners in New Zealand know of Anna. And so she um started up her coaching business not too long ago. and um and then when I saw that she was taking athletes, I reached out to her. It would be a pretty cool person to get to know for a period and just learn from.
00:19:09
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And she's just so, yeah, she's just so relaxed about everything. And she's really like wants you to just enjoy your training and has a really like holistic approach to everything um in terms of like everything from nutrition to um training to, you know,
00:19:26
Speaker
Even though she is obviously the best of the best, she understands training around life constraints. And especially since she she has a daughter now and everything, I think she kind of um understands that life and sometimes gets in the way.
00:19:42
Speaker
Definitely. I was listening to her on ah Dylan Bowman's Free Trail podcast. It must have maybe a year or ago or so. And it was really interesting hearing her talk about the transition from what her running used to look like to running as a mum and different reasons for it but she just sounded like an incredible person for Star Trek regardless of running so yeah yeah a lot of Kiwis are all like very down to earth people yeah ah Okay, so what year did you start working with Ben?
00:20:13
Speaker
um I actually started up with Ben. So I and had sort of a year where I wasn't being coached by anybody anymore, and in between sort of being coached by Anna and then starting up with Ben. And then when I ran Ultra Trail Kosciuszko in 2023, qualified for CCC.
00:20:31
Speaker
three and i qualified for ccc And um again, one of Ben's athletes had won the 50K there at Kosciuszko.
00:20:42
Speaker
um And so he it had already been in my mind that I might reach out to them and see yeah if they had space or, um you know, if he could give me a bit of help.
00:20:52
Speaker
And then once I got into CCC, and I thought, yeah, i want to I wanted to kind of throw everything at it. And so i that's when I ended up signing it with him. So sort of beginning of 2024. Was that the female winner of Cosi, Maddie?
00:21:07
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. um How... How has does Ben's approach differ from Anna's? Obviously, it would be a progression from what you have already done, but was it a big shift?
00:21:19
Speaker
um Yeah, so they both um have very similar and sort of
Evolution of Sophie's training approach
00:21:26
Speaker
structure to the week. So it's sort of like the classic, like a couple of workouts a week, some speed, some more thresholdy stuff, and a long run, and then... and Some more sort of volume during easy volume during the week.
00:21:41
Speaker
I would say Anna probably focused on getting a little bit more volume during the week, um some double runs and things like that. and But the difference maybe be but was that she we would sort of do like a ah three build weeks and then a down week.
00:21:56
Speaker
And whereas with and with Ron Crew, with Ben, it's more sort of consistent volume week after week. um And so and i guess it's just a little bit different with the consistency in the training. um And I actually find I do prefer having um a rest day or maybe even two rest days during the week and then just continuing on. I used to find the down weeks a little bit hard.
00:22:21
Speaker
and It's like tapering. just It was nice to do some other things during the week, but and yeah, it it can also be a little bit hard. and So yeah, I prefer a bit more consistency.
00:22:33
Speaker
No, it's interesting. I think that's that model of three up, one down is definitely a very typical one, but I've also seen a lot of people... get better results and enjoy more of having that consistent training, having a regular rest day.
00:22:49
Speaker
did Did Anna not build in a rest day during the week? and um I requested to have a rest day. I usually took a Monday rest day. um When I first started off with Ben, I would sort of take Mondays and Fridays.
00:23:03
Speaker
um But then i think, especially with me, just sort of us getting to know each other and my training history and things. and Now, like the confidence was there to add running six days a week. Yeah.
00:23:16
Speaker
But yeah, there's ah less, like I don't do any double runs or anything like that. And so i feel like even though my overall volume week to week is a little bit lower, like over the year, it sort of evens out to be probably about the same. Okay.
00:23:31
Speaker
Yeah. Interesting. And so you're coming off a third place at Ultra Kosciuszko which obviously got you. They got you a ticket to CCC, which is an incredible result. So congratulations for that.
00:23:44
Speaker
Thank you. When I was going back through your Instagram and your posts, one thing that really stood out was that you said that 2024 was really about pushing your comfort zone. And i look at the variety of races that you have done from the Golden Trail National Series, obviously CCC, Four Peaks, and the variety would definitely push most people's comfort zones.
00:24:07
Speaker
So I'm just kind of curious, reflecting on that now, how do you feel like the year went did you achieve that goal yeah and I really do feel like I achieved that goal I um I guess when I first sort of started competing in races I I was just automatically drawn to sort of the 50 to 100k distance um I was felt like i i always I don't really know why because I didn't really have the evidence to support it, but I just felt like I was more suited to that kind of race as opposed to the 20-kilometer pain cave of sprinting for like two hours, basically, which is what the Gold Trail series turned out to be.
00:24:54
Speaker
and But then when they announced the Golden Trail series was going to be um coming to Australia, and i i ah just felt like it was something that just really excited me. um And so, yeah, I threw my hat in the ring there. And even though it probably wasn't like the most...
00:25:12
Speaker
specific or ideal training for CCC. It was like where the competition was going to be at in Australia. um And so I um it did the first race out of Warby and just like really surprised myself by coming third.
00:25:27
Speaker
um And yeah just I found like I really, really enjoyed the competition um and met some um you know other people in the trail running space. and you know We started to train together and and training with people who ah were really pushing me and really improved my fitness over over the course of last year.
00:25:52
Speaker
um And so, yeah, once um sort of the Golden Trail series wrapped up, um then I went over to Europe and did CCC. And it was an absolutely amazing, amazing experience. um I wouldn't say I had the perfect day, but I think I threw everything at it that I could sort of within my own life constraints. um no i I flew over there ah few days before it. like I think I arrived on the Monday and the race was on the Friday.
00:26:22
Speaker
Um, so yeah, it wasn't like and the all the training went perfectly and I felt like I was really prepared ah as well as prepared as you can be training for ah summer European race in winter in Australia.
00:26:36
Speaker
and but I really enjoyed the experience and, um, I, yeah, like I said, within my own life constraints, I did everything that I could. Um, and then, yeah, then when I came back from CCC, I, I threw my name into a couple of other races. I did the rollercoaster run and the GPT team relay and, um,
00:26:58
Speaker
Yeah, I think ah last year, I really sort of the upward trajectory became a little bit steeper, I would say, and um surprised myself with some of the results that I got. So I was really happy with last year.
00:27:09
Speaker
No, that's what really, that's what stood out to me massively. And I've got, I've got a note here that basically just says, Sophie doesn't seem to miss.
00:27:20
Speaker
Yeah. you look at your results and 100% you can look at it objectively and say they have points next to them for UTMB and some are higher scores and other scores. So obviously you have better days than and worse days, but you never seem to have a bad day.
00:27:37
Speaker
Touch wood. I feel like I'm really dancing you right now. so I'm sorry for that. um I'm really curious to the point that You've gone into 2024 with this mindset of pushing your comfort zone, stepping into the unknown, seeing what happens.
00:27:52
Speaker
You found new training partners, which again, have probably been pushing you. It always happens for training partners. Some people better uphills, downhills, long stuff. And then the other thing that stood out was that I think it was when you were referring to CCC that you had really purposefully practiced enjoying the process of training.
00:28:10
Speaker
that That purpose or practice Did that come out of something that had gone wrong in the past, something that I'm not seeing when I say you don't seem to miss?
00:28:21
Speaker
Or is that just part of what's now taken you to this position where you have come up a really steep trajectory and but we just yeah had a great result, Archie? Yeah, I think it happened just like really, really naturally last year. um i and i guess like last year, at the beginning of last year, running just became a lot more social.
00:28:46
Speaker
um I had always met had you know friends through through running and stuff. But last year, a lot more of my training was done with other people. um and so like weekends away especially because we were I was training for a mountain race it involved a lot of like going away with friends for the weekend to get some vert that you can't get when you're in and the middle of Melbourne and so um that obviously added to the enjoyment factor of the of the training as well and then and i think the other thing was that seeing the improvements in my own fitness last year like
00:29:23
Speaker
running up things I used to walk up, um you know, doing reps on hills that previously I would never have dreamed of doing. And like yeah keeping up with people that initially, like I wouldn't even be able to speak when I was running with them. Like just seeing all of those little improvements was like just so like the motivation from that was amazing.
00:29:43
Speaker
um And so, yeah, i like ah like I said in my post before CCC, Actually, last year, the highlight was the training. It wasn't the races.
00:29:53
Speaker
And I think that was just a really healthy mindset to go into the races with. um No matter what happened at CCC, like I was still so happy with the experience I had had preparing for it.
00:30:05
Speaker
And so even though i had I did have a good day, I finished and I, you know, achieved the goal of finishing, um you know, it wouldn't, it wouldn't have mattered if I didn't because and yeah, it was all about sort of the, it sounds so cheesy, but like the process of getting that was, was fun.
00:30:25
Speaker
I think that's incredible. And getting to watch you say those words, it's not fake either. Like you, I can tell that what you're saying is genuinely what you believe. And i think from a coaching perspective,
00:30:40
Speaker
Listening to what you've just said is essentially, I think every coach's dream about when you can, when a runner gets to the point of just loving that process, A, you're going to give yourself the best chance of having the best possible day. But also when it doesn't go plan, you're still coming away proud of what you've done.
00:30:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I mean, like my feelings around, you know, and the results, yeah, the results when they're not the most important thing, because I mean, anything can happen. I mean, you just have to look at, um you know,
00:31:13
Speaker
everybody who trained for GPT this year and it was called off towards the halfway point slash 20k from the finish for some people and then um at Hut to Hut this weekend we had snow randomly in the middle of February and so they had to change the course and so you never ever know what's going to happen on race day and some things can just be completely out of your control and so if everything's based on that result or finishing that race then um yeah it can be really really demoralizing and of course like I'm like everybody else if I if I have a um ah but a bad race or something then it's something to reflect on um but yeah if you can enjoy the the training that's it's a hobby it's what I do outside of my actual job so you've got to enjoy it no I I couldn't agree more and
00:32:05
Speaker
for anybody listening and this includes myself, I think that's a great message to just remind ourselves that it is, it's meant to be for fun. It is a hobby. There's very few people in the country that get paid to do this. And so yeah if it's a slog and you got the wrong, wrong focus, it's good to listen to what Sophie just said. oh No, that's, that's awesome. And that really finishing off your year.
00:32:28
Speaker
trying to think it was four peaks before Grampians. um was it Yeah, it was just before ah it was for the Grampians. So nearly finishing off your year with four peaks, given what you said that you innately see yourself as a 50k, 100k runner, and then you've just gone into essentially a uphill sprint, which is pure pain in my my mind for four days in a row.
00:32:53
Speaker
Yeah. The stage race aspect probably suited you, but how did you find going into that event and both the challenge, but also the mindset of, you know, it's, you know what you're about to get into.
00:33:05
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Again, like last year was so much about just testing myself to see where I was at. And I think I had surprised myself so much with some of my results in the Golden Trail series.
00:33:17
Speaker
um And so by the time I got to Four Peaks, I was feeling a little bit more like, well, why can't I do well at this run? um I've surprised myself before, like maybe it wouldn't be such a surprise if I if i did well here.
00:33:33
Speaker
um I definitely wouldn't have previously thought of myself as like an uphill specialist or anything. And I still don't because I 100% won four peaks on the last day on the downhill.
Strategic performance during Four Peaks
00:33:44
Speaker
um But I was still able to keep the the distance between me and Antonia, who is in first place going into the last day. it's such a gap that it was still achievable on the last day um and so yeah I I really enjoyed that event too it was really nice to battle it out over multiple days um and again see my climbing improving that was also and gave me a lot of motivation I won't lie getting out of bed for the last day is always hard four peaks can imagine and
00:34:18
Speaker
Yeah, but no, it was a lot of fun. And you still, you said you you went into the last day in second place, but yeah, your results were second, third, second, and then first. So it's not like on those purely uphill days you were sliding down. I don't have the time gaps. I couldn't say if you were seconds or, but you must have been close, obviously, to the last day.
00:34:39
Speaker
yeah Yeah, a couple of, I think there was a couple of minutes between me and Antonia on the last day. um And so i took off like a bat out of hell on the spotlight of Mystic and dr tried to put a bit of distance into her on the flat section before we got to the climb.
00:34:56
Speaker
And then I was fully expecting her to come past me as we started to climb, um but she didn't. And then when I got to the of the climb and she still hadn't, I think she was have had ah having a few issues recently um with maybe like a a lingering injury that was meaning that the uphills were fine, but the downhills not so much.
00:35:15
Speaker
And so then it's kind of strange because you cross the finish line and you just kind of have to stand there and wait, like looking at your watch. Oh, there's one minute. oh there's He's not come past yet. So you have no idea if you've won or not until like they cross the line, basically.
00:35:32
Speaker
nervewracking It was a little bit nerve wracking. Yeah, yeah. um Yeah, it was. Something that I asked Matt last week and macckery and and his answer was essentially put his feet up and eat.
00:35:45
Speaker
How do you think about the recovery between each day? You have a different knowledge base with your work. So did you do anything more than just eat and put your feet up? um Um, nothing like, um, yeah, not, not reinventing the wheel or anything like that. I think Matt's advice is good, like just resting, um eating a lot.
00:36:08
Speaker
Um, and yeah, I, I went into the river when, whenever I could after the event and sat in there for a little while. i mean, it's a little bit,
00:36:20
Speaker
it's there's not as much muscle damage associated with running up up hills so yeah I wasn't waking up really sore or anything the next day um from any sort of muscle damage that you get from running downhill um even after sorry day two you you still felt not too bad after having to come down from feather top Yeah, no, just took it easy coming down off there. And um I didn't really feel any soreness or anything. It was just really more about the, like the mental thing was the hardest thing. i think about four peaks. Obviously the body gets a little bit tired, but everybody's tired. um I think it was more a case of getting oh to race four times in a row, um which takes it out of you a little bit. So um that was something new. i think, yeah,
00:37:08
Speaker
us when When you're warming up, it feels a little bit daunting, but as soon as the the gun goes off, then you're in the race. so Yeah. No, that's well, again, congratulations on the Four Peaks, putting all four days together, not seemingly having a particularly off day and being able to close hard speaks a lot to your strength, both physically and mindset-wise. i think that's ah's an incredible performance.
00:37:33
Speaker
And then you've already touched on it at the very start. A imperfect, but completely on purposely imperfect build up to Archie with going on holiday, buying your house, life just taking the priorities for a little bit.
00:37:47
Speaker
Going into Archie, did you still carry that confidence from last year? And I guess as if there's anything you didn't really say about the race. each and I would say if you asked other people, I probably wasn't really carrying the confidence when i when they should be at the finish line or how long ah I thought it was going to take me. And I think I said like seven hours or something.
00:38:12
Speaker
ah got So yeah, my poor friend said, She had to like jump out of bed and run down the hill in order to catch me because I came in like nearly an hour before what I thought I would. Yeah.
00:38:23
Speaker
Yeah. so maybe I wasn't carrying in that much confidence, but I think it's so easy when you have like a few down weeks off training. i mean, even. and with my background in sports science, you still get caught up in the whole, like I've had a few weeks of training and all my fitness is going to be gone. I'm starting to have to build all the way back up again, and but no, things are a lot more sticky than that. And so, um, yeah, I, I think as soon as I set off and I was, and I i was feeling good, um, then things just clicked into place there.
00:38:55
Speaker
um And yeah, i sort of the first technical downhill. So many people had told me about four mile that I just took it really easy down there. I got passed by a few people going down there and then um quickly caught them back up on the on the flats and then that was it it was nice that we got to see sort of the um the people who were doing the two-day event up until about halfway um and then from halfway was kind of you were just kind of on my i was on my own so i just put some music in and and grinded up the hill and and yeah yeah all the way to the finish so it was a pretty easy day no it was i when i saw your time
00:39:37
Speaker
Knowing that Kelly had... I think Kelly broke Simone's course record by nearly 30 minutes and... And I'm pretty sure that the men's course record is sort of 527 by Zach Vissett.
00:39:49
Speaker
So Kelly's being about 615 was already very quick and very impressive. Obviously, Kelly is very quick and very impressive. But then to see you come in I think, was it, what was your finish time? Was it 6.05, 6.07? 6.07, yeah.
00:40:01
Speaker
6.07. So taking nearly another 10 minutes off. That was an incredible run. did Did you know that you were on a good run when you were... Yeah, I felt like I was running really well. I think it was definitely the my most well executed 50k.
00:40:17
Speaker
and My feeling was going really well. and And yeah, often in sort of 50k races, I think i am I can set off a little bit too fast and fade towards the end. And this one, i i felt like I paced it really well I was still feeling good coming up the hill um knew so obviously I sort of got to the halfway point in under three hours and then I I knew obviously I had seen Kelly's time from the year before and and i thought oh this could be on but I actually didn't know exactly what was coming in the second half of the race I hadn't seen the climb so I wasn't sure how steep it was going to be or anything so
00:40:59
Speaker
I let's just, I just kind of continued on on my own race. And then and when I got sort of back into the village and I saw Kelly there and um then I, yeah, I realized I had sort of like 45 minutes to get to the finish from seeing her in Mount Buller village.
00:41:19
Speaker
And then I, yeah, I knew it was going to be on but I was very happy when I got to the top of Buller and I had like a a good enough time gap to kind of enjoy it down into the finish.
00:41:29
Speaker
yeah that's brilliant. When you were going into this race, I read that you mentioned about gut training, which in the post that I saw that I wasn't sure if that was just a joke comment or if it's something that you i specifically practiced.
00:41:42
Speaker
But were you thinking about your nutrition any differently to past 50Ks or past 100Ks? um Yeah, I think actually my nutrition ah has improved a lot. just my um I guess I always kind of knew what I should be doing, but the um actual like practice around it has improved a lot in the past years.
00:42:02
Speaker
maybe year or maybe a little bit more as well. like so A lot of the products that have started to become available or have just made it so much easier. like I often now use those precision 90 gram pouches, whereas previously you were bringing like a million gels that all have 20 grams of carbs in and trying to reach like 80 grams of carbs an hour with that do you just feel like you're constantly eating um and so yeah some of the improvements in the products that are available combined with like
00:42:36
Speaker
increased awareness of and new like recommendations over what people should should be taking
Nutritional strategies for race performance
00:42:42
Speaker
um so yeah and I think that's also helped with the recovery this week I mean I've been out running and biking and stuff and felt pretty good so um yeah I've definitely felt like that was a major factor this time if you know and you're happy to share do do you know what numbers you were aiming for for the race for like grams of carbs sodium fluids um So I was aiming to reach 80 grams of carbs per hour. and i think I may have fallen off that a little bit towards the end, um just purely because I ran out of my own gels and ah some of the stuff at the aid stations, which is absolutely like would be fantastic if yeah I think I got offered like some pizza or something.
00:43:27
Speaker
I was like, ah, that sounds delicious, but maybe not right now. and And so, yeah, some of the options just weren't quite what I was wanting in the moment. So I think I probably ended up somewhere around 70 grams per hour. But I also have made a really big effort um in the last few months to increase my fluid intake and during races.
00:43:48
Speaker
And so now i aim for... and at least and one and a half 500 ml bottles, so 750 ml to a litre per hour um and with over 1000 milligrams of sodium and that's made a huge difference as well. I think I was often under hydrating during races.
00:44:14
Speaker
Yeah, not thank you for sharing that and and definitely watching the front end of the sport We've kind of gone through that high carb revolution and and there are people talking about the but medium carb or moderate carb aspect of it as well being better.
00:44:31
Speaker
But the hydration element seems to really be the factor now that people are starting to realize that, oh, I can't get away with just having one soft flask an hour or one soft flask every two hours, even if the conditions are cool.
00:44:43
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. I mean, it was like three degrees at the on on the top of Buller and probably closer to like 10 for most of the race. So it wasn't hot by any means, but um it's just hard. Like it's it's hard to remember these things in training. There's logistics around trying to um bring the fluid with you on your long runs. and So it takes a little bit more thinking and and getting used to having that volume of liquid in your stomach.
00:45:10
Speaker
And I'm pretty lucky in that i I don't really experience too much gut distress. um And so, yeah, I'm pretty lucky. i i feel for people who yeah have to kind of make a quick dart into the bushes if they and try some of this high carb, high fluid intake stuff. um But practicing it does make a big difference. 100%. Is that something that Ben has spoken to you about implementing, like trying different strategies in training.
00:45:42
Speaker
Yeah. and And it's also something that i i'm I'm really lucky. i work, so the the group that I work in here at ACU and is sort of split in half. So we have people who kind of focus on more of the health side of exercise science. And then um we also have like a ah group that really work in the elite sport space, um which is led by and Louise Burke, Professor Louise Burke, who was the head of nutrition at the Australian Institute of sport for forever.
00:46:14
Speaker
And so she's like the godmother of sports nutrition. And so and a lot her and a lot of her, and you know, postdocs and students and people who work in her group have so much expertise in this space. um That, yeah, they're always happy to let me pick their brains and stuff. So being exposed to that as well is is I'm really lucky.
00:46:37
Speaker
ah From a ah an endurance athlete's perspective, that sounds like heaven to me, to be them right there. Yeah, they've really helped me. i mean, like, even last year, i um I had a blood test on, I realized I had like a bit of an iron deficiency.
00:46:54
Speaker
And i work in the office next to like one of the um world leaders um in research for female athletes and iron deficiency. So I just like popped into her office showed her my results and said like what do you recommend and um yeah so um it's I am really lucky and ah picking their brains is um a lot of fun yeah I can imagine and I'm also glad to hear that you actually are making the most of that because why not but I feel like time some people might feel like they shouldn't or couldn't or yeah
00:47:28
Speaker
Yeah, well, sometimes I feel kind of silly because like and so some of them are working with like full-on Olympic gold medalists. And so then I pop in there and say, like, oh, could you help me with my yeah my race this weekend?
00:47:42
Speaker
Hey, we're all important. We're all important. ah Yeah. Well, that that perfectly actually transitions to, I was talking to a mutual friend of ours, Gillian Turnbull about you coming on and if there was anything that I should particularly ask you because I knew that she would have something insightful and very smart and probably something that i didn't think about which is exactly what happened and she gave me a couple of topic ideas which we'll talk about firstly can you just discuss what you are currently working on because I know it's very relevant to this conversation and then yeah we'll go from there
00:48:20
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
Research at ACU: Exercise, nutrition, and female representation
00:48:21
Speaker
and So the some of the research that I kind of focus on now, as I said, is more in the sort of health space. So I'm working on trying to understand how and different exercise and nutritional interventions can impact um different diseases like tachy diabetes or, and you know, like age-related loss of muscle mass, cancer.
00:48:42
Speaker
um So a really like broad array of different diseases ah diseases. um And then I'm also, as I said, like working with and collaborating with um some of the people in our group who focus more on the elite end of of sport.
00:48:58
Speaker
And um they really, the past, um females have been really underrepresented in sport science research. And so there's a real push from that side of our group to increase um you know female participation in research and understanding around what are some of the like specific female requirements for things like nutrition and exercise prescription.
00:49:22
Speaker
um And so, yeah, Gillian and I often have in-depth conversations about ah the injustices first of the fact that that females are underrepresented and then also um ah some of the practical takeaways as well. Yeah.
00:49:37
Speaker
Yeah, I would love to be a fly on that wall. it would be yeah It would be great. But it is it's something that I've become painfully aware of, of how misrepresented or sort of underrepresented people women are in the research and learning a bit about why it just seems a bit archaic and it's really great to hear that there are teams actively trying to change that which brings us to the first point in which basically can you discuss kind of your yeah the work that you have been involved in around the effects of the menstrual cycle phase on performance and how women should or could
00:50:22
Speaker
consider it. Yeah, definitely. and as I said, like, women are very underrepresented in the research. So i think um one of the and students in our group presented some work on a review that she had done previously, recently, um looking at female representation in sports science research.
00:50:44
Speaker
And um I think female participation, female participants account for around 30 percent of research participants but only six percent of um of research papers actually have a female only um cohort and so we're not talking about huge amounts of research papers to pull loads of good evidence from ah the other thing is that it's really, really difficult to do really high quality research in female participants.
00:51:15
Speaker
And that's not a slight on anybody working in this space at all. It's just that it's really, really complicated. um Obviously, females have these ah so many different um ovarian profiles ah from, you know, naturally naturally menstruating to people taking oral contraceptives to people undergoing pregnancy to, you know, perimenopause and menopause. And so,
00:51:39
Speaker
There's just so, so much to consider when you're trying to design a research study that's really well controlled to answer a specific question. um And so i think that at least in part explains why there isn't a huge amount of evidence to pull from.
00:51:54
Speaker
um But there is more and more coming out. And so some of the work that's going on in the lab that I work in and um other labs around the world um how are trying to sort of ah see whether there's an association between and fluctuations in the hormonal profile during the menstrual cycle and and performance.
00:52:15
Speaker
And really the take home message and at the moment is that there is no sort of strong evidence to support phase based hormones. training or, and you know, phase based interventions, phase based nutritional interventions, there's no sort of, you know, there's no sort of right phase to do strength training or do this nutritional intervention, sort of at a global population level.
00:52:41
Speaker
um But and it is kind of an important but there is a lot of individual variability um in the data. And so what might affect one person very heavily, might have no impact on on another person. And then when the other person is in a different phase, they're experiencing and declines in performance. And so i think it's really more important to take a sort of individual approach. Yeah.
00:53:09
Speaker
And so um really what I recommend for people and and what other experts working in this space tend to recommend is that um you track your own and sort of symptoms because, you know, perceptions of negative symptoms can really impact performance. And it seems to be the symptoms that are really the driver as opposed to the changes in the hormonal levels.
00:53:34
Speaker
And so um tracking your own um symptoms and your own feelings in terms of both like your performance, your physical feelings, your motivation um over a few months and seeing if any patterns sort of emerge there and then using that to maybe dictate your training. So if you're, you know, you notice that The week before you get your um period, you feel lethargic, low on energy, low on motivation.
00:54:03
Speaker
And that tends to happen each month. Then you can kind of change your training around that to maybe, you know, back off a little bit, maybe be kind to yourself, and you know, make sure you're getting good nutrition and um ease off the high intensity. And then, you know, you can load it in somewhere else where you've identified that you're feeling strong.
00:54:23
Speaker
yeah. oh yeah No no um blanket rules, but um no one-size-fits-all approach. But you can definitely get a lot from tracking your own um your own feeling, your own symptoms. um Yeah. yeah that's really that's really helpful. I'm sure a lot of people will take some lessons and some at least just start thinking about their cycle potentially a bit more. I know obviously...
00:54:49
Speaker
privy to working with a lot of female athletes of different ages and seeing how different phases of their cycle does impact them and yes it is typically that late lead to your phase that you'll start to feel the worst and and if we do modify that's typically where it is but then you see day three four five of the cycle and if a race falls in that day it is like go for it for some people so it's and and but there could be i've seen vice versa as well so Yeah, definitely. And the other thing that's really struck me in seeing some of the research that's come out of our group is that it's so difficult to know exactly what phase you're in at any one time.
00:55:26
Speaker
i'm You know, no menstrual cycle is the same, even in the same person. And so while we try to bring people in for research on a specific um phase of their cycle, sometimes we'll analyze their hormones down the track and they weren't in that phase at all. um And so I sometimes, um yeah, worry a little bit when I see like sort of, you know, phase based recommendations of when you're in your luteal phase or your follicular phase, you should do this and because who knows what phase you're in.
00:56:01
Speaker
unless you're doing sort of like ovulation tests and things like that. um So I think just, yeah, tracking tracking yourself. um And that could also help um with research in the future as well. I mean, um people people tracking and and sharing their own data and things. like I think the anecdotal data in this space will actually so kind of lead the way while research catches up. So, yeah.
00:56:28
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's, that's really interesting. if You don't have to go into the specifics, but is this something that you think about with your own training or that you've had to implement for your own training? Yeah, I do think about it. um I, to be honest, I don't really experience severe symptoms or, um you know, massive fluctuations over on a monthly basis.
00:56:50
Speaker
And so it's not something i personally haven't really identified as a problem in my own training. If it was, I would definitely take to, you know, even just making notes in ah in a journal or a training log or something that, time you know, could inform my coach or my own decisions around training but um luckily ah blessed with not too too bad symptoms usually yeah no well that's i'm sure that's very nice um and i can't can't speak for it so try try not to put my foot in it essentially and my not yeah and at the start that you also mentioned tracking through perimenipause or sorry the implications of performance of through perimenipause and menipause
00:57:37
Speaker
as much as you you know in in this area are there things people should be thinking about paying attention to through those phases of their life as well yeah i mean speaking about um we're already talking about an underrepresented group in the research and then when um you know you're Thinking about may sort of midlife to older population, um they're even more underrepresented.
00:58:06
Speaker
And so, yeah I mean, it tends to be that the the research resources and things kind of focus on, um you know, athletes elite athletes who are ah you know often not at that perimenopause or um you know menopausal phase um and so there's even less sort of research to support um you know evidence-based recommendations around that um i think it's just and and it's so different again for each individual woman what or or each individual person what they experience
00:58:40
Speaker
um and trying to conduct research studies in people going through the perimenopause is even more tricky because it's like the hormones are all over the place i heard somebody refer and kind of talk about it in that when you're going through normal um cyclical you know menstruation you've got this nice like smooth lines and then it's just like ah ball of mess and then it's So like, yeah, it's really tricky to do controlled studies in those people.
00:59:10
Speaker
um I think it's just important to... Yeah, listen to your to your own body, your own symptoms and try try to stay active because especially as we get older, staying active is so, so important.
00:59:24
Speaker
um And so speaking with healthcare professionals and people in this space and that actually reminds me, ah I should say, um somebody who i often will listen to who who works in this space and is absolutely and amazing communicator is a researcher from Manchester Metropolitan University Professor Kirsty Elliott Sale ah she's devoted her whole career to to understanding the relationships between hormones and contraceptives and performance um and she is working more in in the menopause space now and she she's
00:59:57
Speaker
been on loads of podcasts so I really recommend just type her name Kirsty Let's Sail into your podcast um search bar and and some something will come up if you're interested in this topic.
01:00:09
Speaker
Perfect no think that's great I think obviously anyone going through through that stage of their their life or if you are a coach or someone that's yeah work working with those sort of people think that would be a ah great idea yeah but i definitely it's definitely an area that that I can learn a lot more so thank you for sharing and giving that advice yeah no problem lovely okay we'll start to wind things down now before i do is there any anything that i haven't asked that you feel like i should or anything you'd like to oh sha leave anybody with no not really we i think we've covered a lot of bases no this has been i've i've loved this i've spent the whole entire time just nodding and smiling and just being like i'm really grateful that i get to edit this and
01:00:53
Speaker
right now especially on the second half but yeah it's been great to get to know you a lot more and you've already mentioned buffalo as the next i'm assuming that's the next event you don't have anything before before buffalo no nothing before buffalo so yeah the 42k coming up in uh five or six weeks so looking forward to that and is there anything after that at the moment Yeah, I'm signed up to do the hundred k at UTA this year. um I think the main goal for this year will be to try and qualify for CCC again.
01:01:25
Speaker
um i think, yeah, after going and seeing the course last year, that I left a little bit of time out there that I wouldn't mind going having another crack at that. um So possibly 2026.
01:01:38
Speaker
um But yeah, let's see if I can qualify first. That's very exciting. It sounds like it will definitely keep you... Keep you motivated for training. Yeah. No, brilliant.
01:01:49
Speaker
Lovely. Well, Sophie, thank you so much for your time and for coming on the podcast. It's been great for those heads to get know you more and hear about your story. And good luck for the rest of the year. Oh, thanks so much for having me on.