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Episode 41: HK100, Strength Testing for Runners, and Brodie's Triathlon Career.
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Welcome to Episode 41 of Peak Pursuits, your ultimate podcast for everything trail running in Australia. This week’s episode is hosted by Sim Brick, Vlad Ixel, and Brodie Nankervis. Listen in as Vlad recaps his 3rd place at HK100 ‘The Third’, Brodie gets back into some running, and Sim sparks a conversation about strength training and testing for runners.
The team then answer a question about the timing of this years short trail championships being outside the world champs qualification window, and run through the results of the historic Bogong to Hotham race.
Bogong to Hotham Results: https://my.raceresult.com/322298/results
***Don’t forget, use code PPP at https://bix-hydration.myshopify.com/en-au for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits! Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and your own trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
Sim: @theflyingbrick_
Vlad: @vladixel
Brodie: @brodienank
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/mood-maze/trendsetter
License code: K08PMQ3RATCE215R
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:08
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode 41 of the Peak Pursuits podcast. My name is Simone Brick coming to you from Melbourne and I am joined by once again the traveller Brody Nankervis in New Zealand. How are we doing Brody?
Orienteering and Running Trends in Hong Kong
00:00:23
Speaker
Yeah, pretty good. Just over in the south part of the North Island in New Zealand.
00:00:28
Speaker
been here for a couple of days and I'm here till next weekend which is fun. Not the most glamorous part of New Zealand but it's still cool to get away and the forest here is very nice to run around in so and I got to run around so that was fun so we'll get to that. um ah yeah It's pretty good. That's cool. So are you near Wellington?
00:00:47
Speaker
Yeah, just north of Wellington. It's called, the region's called Manawatu. And as we're sort of on the coast because the orienteering's right on the coast in the sand dunes. There's like pockets of pine forest still. It's mostly cleared around here, but there's pockets of pine forest and that's sort of where we'll be racing.
00:01:04
Speaker
Nice, nice. And I am also joined by the recent third place getter at Hong Kong, 133K, or the 33K at the Hong Kong 100 Festival. Let's put that, put it that way instead. Vlad Iksu, how are we doing, Vlad? Yeah, good. Just got back two days ago. So yeah, nice trip to Hong Kong, super busy. But yeah, it's great to see how that event has kind of got back to his glory days because I felt like, you know, with Hong Kong, with a protest and COVID that Hong Kong took to the extremes, that race kind of like probably just like fell a bit in the shadows of some other Asian races. But yeah, this year felt like it's back to its glory days again. So it was nice to be a part of it. Awesome. Awesome. It does still feel like there's just a few things that are finally clicking back into where they were pre-COVID sort of thing. It's good. Yeah. Very good to see.
00:02:00
Speaker
Yeah, I think generally just with Hong Kong, um a lot of races are still struggling. um It feels yeah, it feels like there's a lot of new runners like younger athletes getting into running, but it's actually road running that they're getting into. And trail running is a bit of an older sport now. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, yeah.
00:02:20
Speaker
fun. Okay. I love just observing trends like that. It's um forever intriguing. You can come up with a million different reasons why you think it might be happening.
Vlad's Race Recap and Strategies
00:02:28
Speaker
But yeah well um this week on the episode, we're going to get a rundown from Vlad on the race and run through all the results. We had six Aussies in action over at the Hong Kong 100.
00:02:41
Speaker
Brodie's going to tell us all about how he's no longer just a cyclist because he finally got a run done. And me and my gym escapades. But we've got the Bogong to Hawthorne results as well to finish. Couple listener questions. And to get us started, Vlad, third place. Billy Curtis got the win. You were trumped by an Aussie.
00:03:03
Speaker
Yeah, and I did really well. I mean, I think that, yeah, I spent a bit of time with Billy after the race, and we did talk a little bit about it, but he ran really well. So pretty much like that course is very rungable for the first kind of 12K, then it goes into a little bit of like soft sand, a bit of technical trails, and then most of the elevation is right at the back. So 1500 meters of gain, most of it is in the last 10K. Damn. So Yeah, I kind of ran with the leaders or ran in the lead for the first 12K. I was going to say I saw you win the lead at some point. Yeah, no, I was I was up there for most of the day, except when, um yeah, I guess, except in the last like, except C class six, seven K, I just didn't really have the legs for it. But yeah, it kind of started not not as quick as what I ran it last year. um So I think we talked about it.
00:03:56
Speaker
what two or three episodes ago, um going into this race, I knew that I wasn't as fit as what I was this time um last year. yeah um And yeah, I mean, six weeks of training, kind of five weeks of training, um I knew that I didn't have the fitness to race a three hour race. But I still kind of gave it a go, ran well on the flat bits. Then we got into first aid station, I think that Billy was probably a minute and a half behind us.
00:04:26
Speaker
And then as we got into the technical stuff, we made up a lot of time and probably around 22k big down technical downhill, he just flew by me. And I was like, Oh shit, I better start running a bit quicker on the downhills. Um, so I started pushing the downhills and we kind of ran together, I guess not far from each other for the next maybe 10k.
00:04:50
Speaker
I probably I was putting a bit of time on him on the flats then I guess on the technical stuff he would catch up a bit and then we got into pretty much the technical last climbs section which yeah pretty much where most of the elevation is and he just pushed it pushed and yeah Literally, I think it put seven minutes in min in the last seven K, which shows Yeah, well, I guess it shows two things how strong Billy is right now and how strong of a technical runner is and also That I really hit the wall hard there But yeah, I think I think we talked a little I talked with Billy a bit about it so he did that 70 K trail race in Japan a few weeks ago and
00:05:36
Speaker
yeah And he kind of took it as a training race and we kind of, I mean, I kind of told him, do you think that was like a big thing that made you kind of run strong today? and ah Yeah, I think he thinks he was like, you know, this kind of like base kind of really long run, probably a zone two that really paid off now because I think that race was about two months ago. yeah So that kind of be a base and now putting in some more specific work work towards this race, he really paid off and he had a really good race. I really think that he will get like a fairly high
00:06:09
Speaker
I trust score, even though it's not like a really fast course with all that technical running there. um But I think you'll get a solid score from that. And good yeah, he's definitely definitely like fit and and he runs well in technical trails. So I think, yeah, I really hope that he has a good year. I know that he's going to spend some time in Vietnam and and around Asia. So I'm excited to see how he goes. And, you know, he's a hard worker, a really nice guy. and Yeah, I'm just really happy for him and yet happy had a good run and got a lot of attention in Asia that race. He was sending me some yeah, some links today to like Chinese social social networks that were like sharing a lot of pictures of us or like the race and a lot of him for him. So that was really good. Yeah, it was really cool.
00:06:55
Speaker
Yeah, he's also a very smart racer. like he's never He's never at the front at the start, from what I've observed at least. Well, he used to. He's always to closing well. The race is his race really well. He has sort of been more conservative and then closed really well. So, I think he we yeah we me and Billy have spoken a little bit this afternoon actually and we'll release the interview on the maybe the back end of this episode or maybe a separate episode this week. yeah Um, but we were talking about that. And another one where he did that was at UTK in, uh, 2023. And he sat, he sort of ran with Mike Carroll for ah ah a bunch of it. And then he sort of pushed through from about six or fifth through to second at the end. So yeah, he's he's getting really good at that type of racing. Um, and I think he's got good range. Um, so it means he can finish strong, even though he's been running for two hours already.
00:07:45
Speaker
Yeah, I'd also love to see him on some of the sky races with how good he is on technical terrain. Yeah. Cause there's a lot of them now popping up in Asia. Yeah, I actually think that he's a very good technical runner and like, you know, when I run quick on technical trials.
00:08:02
Speaker
Like I look at my heart rate and I'm like at 165. So I'm obviously like pushing it where I think he is a lot more relaxed, right? It's a lot more fluid. Like it comes up like downhill technical running comes a lot more natural team kind of like Stingray, kind of like John Stingray from the Philippines. Just a really natural downhill runner.
00:08:23
Speaker
But then again, like I think that Billy has that strength in the uphills as well. And if you have a look at some of his workouts on Strava, he can still hold like, you know, free 15 fairly comfortable on the flat road. So he's a very complete runner that still fairly young. So I think he will, like Brody said, he's a smart, he's a smart guy as well. So I think that it will start clicking, it started clicking for him as already, but I think it will really click for him in the next few years and it will do really well.
00:08:49
Speaker
Yeah, nice. i'm ah I'm looking forward to, I haven't listened to that interview with you, Rhoda, yet. So I'm looking forward to listening to it myself yeah as I, as we, we'll add it to the end of this one, I reckon. Yeah, it's really interesting because in reality, he's ever since, you you would think that Billy's been running for many years.
00:09:06
Speaker
because he, when he started, he well, but but but just because how prominent he's been over the last two years, but it's just because he dove straight in and he went for the hard races straight away. He's really only been racing since the start of 2023. And he's already sort of yeah come this far. I think this race, like looking at it from the outside to me, I think this is a turning point for Billy. And I think this year will be really interesting to see how he goes. Cause I think like Vlad said, things are starting to click a little bit more and he knows what he needs to work on.
00:09:36
Speaker
um And i yeah, I'm really excited to see what he can do.
Recovery and Upcoming Races Discussion
00:09:39
Speaker
Nice. Yeah. And Vlad, how have you pulled up after the race? Yeah, not too bad. I guess like the only thing was my quads, obviously longer downhills that I'm not used to. And yeah, but otherwise I kind of always judge my fitness by the ability to recover. And now yeah I think, you know, there is a kind of improved ability of recovery when you are fairly fit. So Yeah, I recovered pretty good. I had like two easy days and then got back into training today after the whole trip and all the work with that Expo and um everything that we did around the race as well. Yeah. Yeah, which was pretty tiring. But yeah, overall, yeah, recovery is good. And
00:10:22
Speaker
Yeah, next trip is to India. I was going to say next is the stupid one, but awesome one at the same time. The insane marathon on ice or something. What was it? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's a marathon on on a frozen lake on ice at four and a half thousand meters of gain. so Yeah, I literally have like a list of things that I need to look into like running at minus 15 degrees in my clothes. I'm going to wear two dry mills that I got to take with me.
00:10:53
Speaker
I just, yeah, I don't know. I've never been to India, but like from what ah to what I was told is like, be careful of like some of the local foods. So I might just play it safe before the race and just eat like- Highly recommend. Yeah, kind of like what I ate that to come across in the 250K self-supported race. Yep. 10 years ago. So kind of- Thanks for the stuff with you. Vlad, you're definitely keeping the content on this podcast very interesting. You hear, yeah he know he's giving it more interesting than me, so that's good.
00:11:24
Speaker
it's ah you're I think you're already throwing enough at your body by the time you're on ice in that temperature at altitude that are you do not want to add it any bad guts to that scenario. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, I think I'll try and play it safe and eat very, very safely leading into the race and maybe then post-race try one or two local meals. We are going to be kind of like right on the Chinese border up there. So I feel like it should be Um, I guess food wise could be a little bit safer, but yeah, still. I wouldn't, yeah, I wouldn't take that.
00:12:05
Speaker
No disasters, please. Um, yeah awesome. I'm actually so keen to hear, A, the build to this and how you answer all those questions and then B, just what the hell something like that is like, but, uh,
00:12:16
Speaker
But to keep us on Hong Kong just for a second, while we're on the topic, we'll run through the results. Did you speak to Nigel? Yeah, yeah, really, really nice. They had a booth at the expo. So I guess there was like an extra booth at the expo and then the race organizers like, oh, you can have this empty one. So they were there just kind of like, I guess, showcasing their race. Because I know your organizers a few races right around Melbourne.
00:12:43
Speaker
Yeah, single track um so preton from single track. Okay, so he does the whole single track stuff. I think he's, there's, it seems to be, ah don't quote me on this, but it seems to be that different people within single track have like almost their their baby or like their race that they are most involved in.
00:13:00
Speaker
Um, but yeah, definitely he's part of single track. Um, and he came 11th. So in the 33 K, uh, we had three Aussies on action. We had a first and a third two on the podium. Love it. Uh, in Billy and Vlad, Billy ran, what was it? It was two hours, 43 58 and you were two hours.
00:13:22
Speaker
50,209 and then Nige Preston was three hours, 04, 59, something along those lines, maybe a little, I'm trying to line up the 306, 12, there we go, in 11th place.
00:13:38
Speaker
ah The other Aussies we had in action were Kelly, the lovely Kelly Emerson. She, from what I can tell from her Instagram post, I'm not sure if you got a chance to chat to her at all Vlad, she had some stomach troubles about halfway through. She did an amazing job to get through it and finish 25th female in 15 hours 47.
00:14:02
Speaker
ah We also had John Ellis, who is an Aussie that lives in Hong Kong and has done this race from what I could tell on their Instagram 15 times. So yeah definitely a veteran of the race. He came 33rd in 13 hours 17. And then we had David Longo in the, what do they call it? The Grand, is it actually called the Grand Sam or is that a ah typo? Because everything I can see on it says a Grand Sam.
00:14:30
Speaker
Oh, Grand Slam. Oh, it's a Grand Slam. So on the Instagram and on the website, it's called the Grand Sam, but I'm not entirely sure why it's called the Grand Sam. And if that's a typo. OK, I'm not 100% sure. I think it is the the Grand Slam. OK, cool. So it might be a translation thing. Maybe. i'm not It could be a Grand Slam. But I know that it started like 2022.
00:14:56
Speaker
And they only had five people doing it in 2022. So it's pretty much. So you do the 33K on a Thursday, the 56K on a Friday, and then the 100K on the Saturday. Ouch. Yeah. So first year, they only had five people. So it wasn't like a big deal. Second year, I think they had like 170 people. And then this year, they almost had 200 people and they really kind of like pushing yeah it as like a cool, different challenge.
00:15:22
Speaker
I think Hong Kong has always been about like, running a lot and racing a lot in that winter season. And they used to have a Grand Slam, a different Grand Slam, maybe, maybe that's why they call it the Grand Slam, because they used to be the original Grand Slam was for 100k races in Hong Kong. um So there was the TNF 100.
00:15:44
Speaker
um Hong Kong 100 and TransLantel before it was a UTMB race. So a lot of kind of people used to do the full Grand Slam. It's like their season because they were kind of like spaced out about a month away from each other. um And obviously Hong Kong the running season is only in winter. Summer is like way too hot and humid so there's not too many long races or any races at all.
00:16:05
Speaker
Um, but yeah, that was like the main thing, but then that kind of died off a little bit. So now I guess they kind of jumped on this grand slam thing. And yeah, a lot of actually like really good runners did it this year and it was really competitive. Um, nice and he got a lot of attention. So yeah, nice i am ah I'm looking on the website and it actually even says in the history, it says, you might ask, is that a typo? Do you mean the grand slam? And they go, no, it's the grand Sam. Um, so it is called the grand Sam it's named after Hong Kong runner Sam Tan.
00:16:35
Speaker
so that next Yeah, is there an expert organizer? Yeah, okay. um Says he completed the half and the hundred back to back when the half was introduced and then they kind of just named it after him, essentially. um And he has heaps of history. Anyways, it is the Grand Sam, which I'm yeahp glad to have that information. We had ah David Longo in there and he came 59th.
00:17:00
Speaker
in the Grand Sam. So yeah, out of however many they had quite like number of people they had doing something that wild is pretty cool. Yeah, yeah think yeah pretty close to 200. So it was a lot of them. Yeah, no mean fate. So I think that was all the Aussies we had in action. Six, which is pretty cool. And yeah, is that all the Hong Kong 100 chat? Anything else you can add from the expo, your observations over the years or?
00:17:30
Speaker
I mean, they didn't so so this expo was a lot bigger than last year. Two years ago, they didn't have an expo. So this event is really kind of like... becoming like I guess the biggest event in Asia I guess outside of any UTMB races. I think overall like it's always been like ah supported by local Hong Kong runners and now a lot of mainland Chinese runners. So I'd say this is like the main one that the mainland Chinese come to. um So there was a lot of mainland um athletes come in. We saw that at the expo like
00:18:04
Speaker
So we have some people in Hong Kong that worked for us and yeah without um Knowing Mandarin would have been tough doing that Expo because a lot of them won't from the mainland But yeah Expo got bigger the race got bigger They did a live coverage that was apparently like really good. at the I was a bit too busy to check it out, but I think that race is yeah doing well. and I guess at the same time um that they introduced the trail majors half and full kind of distances, this was the first race again for the um trail majors and the first one for the half series, which is a short distance. Which me and Billy kind of talked about. as like
00:18:43
Speaker
If they would have kind of announced it a few months later, maybe it would have changed distances um to be a part of that trail major's half because you only need two races to get a ranking. But they only really announced it like two weeks before so it was a bit too late. yeah But yeah, I guess the difference between 33k and 56k is not that much technically. um like yeah And it is.
00:19:07
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you're still kind of, yeah, I guess you were just saying how you weren't fit for a three hour race. So yeah, a couple of hours. Why don't you know, but if I would have ran like, you know, five hour race or four and a half hour race, it would have been like a bit of a different hot rates on. So I kind of ran the whole thing at pretty close to threshold. If I look at my heart rate, um which probably means that I pushed a little bit too too hard um early on. yeah That's good for a race, isn't it? Yeah, I don't have 171 heart rate for like almost three hours. Yeah, yeah. That's what I would look at for myself. That's what I would normally have for myself. Well, I guess heart rate's very yeah different to different people. Heart rate is individual, but like that is my threshold too. So if you're saying that's threshold, that's that's what I aim for, a threshold as well. Threshold for three hours. Threshold workouts.
00:19:57
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I mean, like threshold workouts or like three hours of worth of threshold? Well, so the last few times I've raced for three hours or so, um and I know from my marathon, to be fair, I've done a five, almost six hour race with an average heart rate 168. Is that with, sorry, is it is that with your watch? That was heart rate strap. That was heart rate strap. And the marathon I ran at 171 was heart rate strap.
00:20:26
Speaker
um So that is what I aim for. Like to be fair, I don't know exactly what my threshold is, but yes, that is also, it seems that I'll hit the same thing and I don't know, my body's weird, but my threshold, when I'm doing a threshold workout, I'll probably only, I'll aim for like 175. Yeah, I mean, I guess that kind of makes your max heart rate about maybe 185. Yeah, it clocks at me at like 192, so. Oh, okay.
00:20:52
Speaker
I don't know. for That makes sense. Yeah, I guess that kind of makes sense. I mean, for me, my max rate is probably like 185. yeah okay So that's maybe a touch too, too quick for me. Two or three bits too hard. I mean, technically, yeah if I do like a half marathon, probably I'm like 173. So yeah, this was like a little bit, um, Yeah, it was a bit too high. And obviously, yeah, that's why I kind of hit the wall pretty hard. Yeah. 30 minutes from the end. Yeah. A couple of questions. Vlad, do you know with the short series, like obviously for the ah world trail majors for the normal distance, there's like prize money or there's at least an overall ranking. I think that also has prize money. Is that, do you know if that's part of the short series or is the short series just a ranking for the first year?
00:21:46
Speaker
I would, I don't know. I don't think there's anything online about the prize for the, for the half. It could be the same as the full, um, but they test they use the same rules, but yeah. So they might kind of like do more or give us a bit more information. I mean, this is literally like third week of January and they only announced it like two weeks ago. So I think like, we'll probably find out a bit more as the kind of, yeah, it's interesting that it's like the race is progressive first already sort of like.
00:22:15
Speaker
Yeah, completed. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, if you guys remember the chat that I had with Janet, who is the ITRA president, and also one of the main people behind trail majors, where they talk about the short distance series, but I guess it kind of probably just, as it is, like James got a full time job. So of like, I guess like a lot of those things just happened a bit slower in in the background. But Yeah, I still obviously I'm just really happy that they have it and you'll probably just yeah next year will kind of be a little bit more organized and people plan for it. But it definitely creates a different pathway um and a cool pathway for people. Not that don't want to race 100k races, but that just want to do some shorter stuff around the region. So yeah, pretty cool. And there is still 11 races left where you only have to do two of them. So there's plenty of yeah plenty of time to plan. show
00:23:08
Speaker
um yes Technically, if you live in Australia, like the easier ones will be Japan and now the one in Australia. so yeah yeah yeah Very interesting. yeah so That's April, November. and um yeah slide The pictures at Hong Kong looked really awesome. like um I was talking to Billy, he said it's a little bit out of town, like 30k or so, but you can still see sort of the Hong Kong city from the top of the It feels better, look beautiful. The beaches look pretty nice. Yeah, I mean, Hong Kong is one of the best places for trail running, especially winter, because it's a dry winter, kind of like 15 to 20 degrees, really, really nice. And the trails, yeah, are just beautiful. And they're so different as well. So this was Sai Kun, which technically is about 20 or 30K away from Hong Kong, like center downtown. But even if you are in the center of Hong Kong,
00:24:01
Speaker
you have a 50k trail right there on your doorstep that um you can literally get to, like within 2k from one of the busiest cities in the world, um run up 2k and you're not going to see anybody for five hours. So the options in Hong Kong are just really good. No matter where you are in the city, if it's on Hong Kong Island, Kowloon or Lental, there's so many trail running options. They don't have like any like really crazy peaks. They only have like two that are really close to 1000, just under 1000. But then they'll probably have maybe like 50 peaks, there are like 700 or like 600. So there's a lot of this kind of like, yeah, kind of rolling hills. And yeah, depending on where you are, the trails are also fairly different. So some parts are very, very technical. And then you have some really runnable trails.
00:24:49
Speaker
Yeah, so it is a nice place for trail running. And if you live in Australia, it's not a bad flight. It's only like seven hours. Same time zone as well. Sorry, from first. So it would be like two or three hours for you. So it's not that bad. But yeah, it's a cool trip to do a trail race early in the year, kind of and in the end of the year during that season. Yeah, nice. Like it. Looks cool. Put it on the list. See you guys there next year.
00:25:16
Speaker
may Maybe. I'm kind of having a love-hate relationship with any racers around this time of year because, yeah I don't know, just I like Christmas taking it off and stuff because it's already enough chaos and staying fit over it can be hard.
Endurance Nutrition and Training Balance
00:25:30
Speaker
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00:25:38
Speaker
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00:25:58
Speaker
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00:26:20
Speaker
Head to the Bix website, stock up, and don't forget to use the code PPP for 20% off. Stay fueled, stay hydrated, and keep chasing those peak pursuits. But someone that did stay very fit on the bike, Brody, where you at? And you've finally gone for a run. Yeah, so last week, it was actually a bit of a down week for training for me. i was um working all week. Unfortunately, my partner had COVID as well. So she was sort of isolating from me and I was trying to sort of do do sort of look after her at the same time. So I didn't quite get as much riding in. And that's the tricky thing with riding is like, it just takes so much more time. um Even just going out for a 60 minute ride doesn't really feel worth it. Whereas I think you can get out of the door for a 40 minute run and and that does feel worth it.
00:27:10
Speaker
Um, so yeah, I was finding that tricky and I was also trying to balance it and we'll get it onto this a little bit more. I think later when you talk about your week, but I was focusing on getting the strength in because that, although I've been doing a lot of volume on the bike, my number one priority.
00:27:26
Speaker
because I think it's probably more relevant to my long-term development as a runner, is the strength comes first and the cycling comes second. So it was a bit of a fit the strength in, try and get a little bit of cycling in and and see how I go. um I rode a couple of two hour rides, but um was in the gym three times for like an over like an hour and 20 minute session or something like that. So yeah, I was pretty happy. Still got some really good quality in. And then, yeah, that led to the end of the week.
00:27:54
Speaker
where I flew to New Zealand on Saturday. um And physio's instructions was to not run on Sunday, but I actually got off the plane. i'm Sorry, Loki. I got off the plane. I felt really good. I started, ah we went to the forest because the people I was traveling with were going for a training run. And I walked for a bit. um But you sort of have to put all your gear on to walk anyway, because you're walking through the forest.
00:28:19
Speaker
And I was like, oh, I feel pretty good. Achilles felt good this morning. Let's maybe just say I went and then ended up running. So swapped the non. How long do you run for? Only half an hour. So um I just did a poodle around the forest and it felt like I felt weird running, but not necessarily like painful. I was a little bit tight in the Achilles from from the gym and I've been finding that a bit more like more so in my lower calf slash Achilles where I don't really get my tendon symptoms. I've been getting some like feelings there, but that's not my that's not my painful site. So that's mostly coming from the gym work, which is good. I'm hitting it well. um And that was more what I felt when I went running. um And then it pulled up pretty well afterwards and pulled up pretty well this morning. So yeah, it's all pretty positive. Good. i got to
00:29:09
Speaker
do some orienteering, which I haven't done for like four months. So I was on a bit of a high afterwards. Um, and yeah, that was great. And yeah, like I'm not, I'm not jumping, jumping the gun and, and then going crazy. Like this week will be very measured. Hopefully being able to race on the weekend, at least one of the well, I will based on how I felt yesterday, I'll be able to race at least one of the races. We'll see if I do any more than that. Um,
00:29:36
Speaker
And then when I get back, I probably might just go back to cycling, but we'll see. We'll see. I'll probably touch base with lockies. Will you be really out of practice for that race though, on the orienteering front? Well, there's a thing like that. it's It's sort of like running in that, like it's a skill and yeah, if you haven't done it for a while, you sort of feel a bit weird.
00:29:53
Speaker
doing it, like it feels a bit strange to get back into the swing of it, but also the more years you've been doing it for, the quicker it comes back. um And the more yeah fair the more, I think for me, like it's the more breadth of experience. I've orientated in so many different countries um over many years and done a ah lot of different types of orienteering. I've been to this particular area before.
00:30:17
Speaker
um like three or four times I've been to this area of New Zealand. So it's sort of like, yeah, you're not it's it's like with any other skill, you're not expecting to do it perfect the first time, which is sort of why I'm here a week before to sort of get out there and yeah and do it. And I even, I went out into the forest again today, just walking around mostly um just to get a bit of a feel for ah just reading the map and and getting my head back in the game. But um yeah, I'm pretty confident. like I might not have an amazing performance next weekend, um but it's also early season for pretty much everyone, so some people have been on more maps than others, but like mostly people haven't been doing heaps. I just need to get a solid race on the board, and it in the end it probably comes more down to the mental side is super important in orienteering. And if I can get in the right headspace, then the technical skill sort of just comes back, hopefully.
00:31:18
Speaker
Yeah, fair, fair. Now, to finish off, you've got one listener question that's come through. Yeah, okay. And Casimir's wondering, is Brody going to start triathlon soon? Yeah, well- When's the first triathlon? Actually, my friend my friend asked me if I wanted to do a triathlon with her and I said, yeah, no, I should actually do a triathlon. um I would like to do a triathlon. Do you do much swimming? No, so I'd be awful at it. Okay.
00:31:43
Speaker
But I've done a bit here and now, here and then, and particularly when I came back from my stress factor, I did like six weeks, six, eight weeks of sort of three times a week in the pool at least. So I got better at it. I'm still really bad, but instead of like swimming a kilometer in like 30 minutes, I can swim a kilometer in 20 minutes. So I could get through a triathlon, I think now. Well, have you ever swum in open water in a pack?
00:32:10
Speaker
Because that's a different kind of fish altogether. Exactly. So I won't be winning triathlons. I'll be out the back where there's not as much of a pack. You can get the number of times you can get kicked in the face or swallow salt water or you're in the bay and it's freaking me. It's like a hell of a lot of fun. I do love the triathlons I have done, but I hated the swim every time. And that's someone that really likes swimming and grew up a swimmer. I'm just not the person that likes being in a pack swimming.
00:32:38
Speaker
because you feel like you're in a washing machine the whole time or at least I do yeah and I get out of the water and I'm like finally I can just like do the thing I hate it when I'm in a pool when there's lots of people in my lane that's mostly because I'm that's mostly because I'm anxious that I'm going too slow or too fast and I'm gonna bang into someone but I feel like yeah it's not a good start but Be prepared for full body contact yeah in the swim, in a triathlon. I'm pretty confident in the water. like I've done a lot of swimming, casual swimming over my life in lots of different places. so like I feel like that'd be good. I'm just not very good at the actual skill of swimming. like me okay and You just hope it's not a choppy day yeah because that can be pretty. but i've always You're not used to it. I've always wanted to do an Ironman.
00:33:21
Speaker
um like from when I was like you know like when I was like 16, 17 and you were like looking at endurance sports like that just felt like back then that felt like the pinnacle of endurance sports was being able to complete an Ironman like a full Ironman.
00:33:35
Speaker
yeah I don't know if I still believe that's the pinnacle of endurance sports, but I do really want to do it still. Like I really want to experience it. So yeah, that's on the bucket list for sure. I don't know when, but a while away. I might do a few short triathlons first.
00:33:54
Speaker
Yep. I also highly recommend starting with a sprint and not Olympic distance. Just just get the sprint done first. Top tips. All right. Lock it in. Maybe I'll do the sprint this year, New Year's resolution. Got to do a sprint triathlon. Do it. there all the All the two times you ones or whatever are on now. Just look up when the next one is. well like have to I'd have to run.
00:34:13
Speaker
I'd have to run. True. Maybe two, two months time. Surely there'll be something like March. Oh, end of the year. I'm sure there's something on. Oh, there's heaps at the end of the year, but it is a lot of fun to jump in. I jumped in a few when I was injured and it was.
00:34:25
Speaker
Interesting. I actually find running off the bike really good. Like I feel activated and like good to go off the bike, as opposed to feeling jelly-legged or whatever. So it's an interesting one. But ah yeah, in other words, to be to be seen when that happens, but it will happen at some day. Oh yeah, I'm sure, hopefully. You're going to, roadie's triathlon career will start at some point. It won't be a very good career, but it'll be a career maybe.
00:34:52
Speaker
Oh, good stuff. Good stuff. Cool. Well, it will be interesting to see how your race goes next week. Good luck for it. Thank you. If I don't speak to you before then. um Hopefully, fingers crossed, all out. just Just come away from it unscathed, please. Yeah, that's the plan. Pretty, pretty please.
00:35:07
Speaker
ah Good. We like that plan. Awesome. And I suppose from my end in a different way, somewhat similar to Brody in that I'm still a little bit focused on or a little bit more focused on hitting numbers in the gym or time in the gym and time doing
Simone's Training Challenges and Strength Benchmarks
00:35:23
Speaker
rehab. But I've gotten my running back up to a decent level, hit 100Ks yeah this week um and jeez I'm feeling it still but to this week was the first week that in the back half running started to click a little bit again we did start the week my first session was three this was off the back of the really speedy sessions the week before as well but was three by five by three hundred meters
00:35:49
Speaker
And when we did it, i was it was me and four other people I train with, all of whom are a lot faster than me. Like they're all sort of, I'm going to say 430, 1500 metre kind of runners or faster. Like they're just speedy, speedy people.
00:36:06
Speaker
um And it was me and them doing 300 meter reps. And I made the mistake of coach said to start every rep together and everyone would just, we were having 90 second recoveries, but everyone would take my recovery. um And I was finishing like four seconds or so behind them. They were running 50, 51. I was running 55 or so.
00:36:27
Speaker
But by the end of set one, I was cooked. I was like, I'm done. Because I kept with the group, I kept getting dragged out real fast and then dropped like a sack of potatoes halfway through. So all the time I was losing to them, I was losing in the second half. And I was like, this is not sustainable whatsoever. And I'd done a good job of it because second set,
00:36:50
Speaker
Like I'm only, what, five, 300s into this session. And second set, I was dying just trying to roll through them at 60 seconds. I'm like, this is 80 second, 400 pace. I've done this that many times in like 20 by 400 sessions and that sort of thing. It should feel easy, but it felt the same as the previous like 55s. So anyways, I had a not yet another session where I got back down, I'd recovered and got the pace back down for the third set, but it was the same time.
00:37:18
Speaker
I felt like it was like the fifth or sixth session in a row where it just the knocks were coming left, right and center and you think you can do something and then halfway through it's like, okay, no, no, we're not, we're not there yet. Um, and hamstrings pulled up something shocking from that. So we, um, got in the gym the next day and actually the weirdest thing i you could, neither of you, hopefully neither of you have experienced this.
00:37:43
Speaker
But the weirdest thing happened the next day when my hamstrings were so cooked that I was running along a flat pavement at the start of my run and about 100 meters in. One of my hamstrings just decided it wasn't there anymore. Like it my leg literally didn't fire and I face planted onto the deck on flat pavement. And it was real like, oh my gosh, my leg just didn't catch me.
00:38:03
Speaker
Like as imagine running along and at some point your leg literally just isn't there is what it felt like. And I went from running to being on the ground wondering what the hell was going on in like a second. And it took me another like, it took me the whole rest of that run, which was 20Ks to regain confidence in my leg. Like I was like shuffling along going, is it going to happen again? Is it going to happen again? Like I was freaked out.
00:38:27
Speaker
um even though it wasn't painful. But yeah, I have no idea if anyone has ever experienced something similar because I was like, I didn't even know how to explain this. It doesn't make sense, but my leg just wasn't there for a second. But yeah, it seems I worked the hamstring.
00:38:44
Speaker
And we came good, we came good though. I think it worked in my favor that I had a couple of days rest, not rest, but easy jogging. I worked an entire day, like a 10 hour day in Swan Hill on Friday. Don't recommend, um because it's a big trip. But Den did, ended up having to do Saturday session instead of Friday. And I did ah over some hills in the middle of the day in Bendigo.
00:39:11
Speaker
Again, don't recommend, but I actually really, really am liking the heat, so it didn't bother me too much. I did 3K, 2K, 1K with 1K float in between, so 8Ks total. And that felt good finally. Well, good-ish. It's still another bit of a confidence knock when the 3Ks, because it was it was on punchy rollers, but net uphill. Like I think it had a net gain of like 80 meters over the 3Ks, which is fine. But also it just meant that I was running along and I felt like I was running real hard, but then I hit the watch and it's like 415 average.
00:39:41
Speaker
And I was like, okay, that's a bit of a confidence knock again, but that's all good. It's all in the process. Um, and yeah, got my runs done for the week, but the main aim for the week, as I said, was the two gym sessions. I only did two, not three. And that's because, because I took a big break from gym training, and now I'm getting back into it, I've been sort of properly back into two sessions a week for three weeks or so now. I've had for years, and this is from my PT days and working as a strength coach under Tony, who I was working with back at the Melbourne Uni Elite Athlete Program. We had like all these standards that we wanted runners or like most athletes to be able to hit just for sort of
00:40:26
Speaker
base strength, injury prevention um sort of thing. And it's all relative to body weight. And so I kind of, I tried, it I haven't done it properly in a while, but I try to use that every year to make sure in this period of the year, I'm getting back to at least my minimum numbers um for that, which thankfully this go around. I reckon it's the quickest I've gotten there. So it seems that the break from gym didn't do me any harm, but I also have been lifting for a number of years now.
00:40:53
Speaker
like over a decade now. So, and I think this is where we're going to have a little bit of a discussion here because I keep getting asked this by by the people I coach and runners as well around strength of they go, but what is a good number? Like what's a good amount of strength to have as a runner? Because we obviously don't need the, the mass or the body, like the capability of power lifters or crossfitters or anything along those lines.
00:41:19
Speaker
But there's still definitely, I think, some base foundation strength that is useful to have for daily life and for running and injury prevention. Some of it which Brody can touch on more is capacity-related in terms of the muscles um for like number of calf raises and these sorts of things. But when it comes to my base lifts and I'm going to caveat this with I haven't actually looked at a research paper in a number of years now, so the new research may be different. But this comes from back in the day, um back like when was I there, 2018 or so, um where we were always trying to get to a base minimum of one and a half times body weight for the deadlift.
00:42:01
Speaker
one times body weight on your back for the squat, two times body weight, which is actually just one times body weight on your back for a calf race because you've already got your own body weight there, and 0.75 times body weight for a bench press. And I forever fail at that bench press number. I've never put in enough work to get there because it's the one that I kind of go, okay, this is now getting hard and sore and I can't be bothered.
00:42:30
Speaker
I don't see the point. um One day I'm determined that I'll get there. but um And this isn't for one rep max user either. This is normally for like four by six reps or three by eight reps sort of thing. um like not yeah So it's not like the maximum you can lift. If you're able to do that number of reps, you can lift quite a lot heavier for a one rep max. um But i don't ah I've never done one rep max testing because I don't think it's worthwhile. I think it's In some ways, I don't, I don't care about that number as much. But yeah, so that's what my, this week I hit that, I hit my one and a half times body weight deadlift, one times body weight um squat. And I could already do two times body weight calf. But, um.
00:43:13
Speaker
I tried to get back on the bench and I think I'm at like less than 0.5 body weight. Like I'm putting like five kilos on the bloody bar at this point. it's um that That one's still a little bit pitiful, but it was also the first time I did it but after months and months and months of not touching it. So I'm determined I'll be stronger next week, or at least have more desire to do it next week. But um but yeah, Brady, what are your, like, cause I know Lockie's given you some metrics that you want to hit for your calf, but have you ever,
00:43:44
Speaker
aimed for anything like that in the gym in terms of squat weight, deadlift weight or anything like that? Yeah, not really. like i In terms of the the squat and deadlift or those other movements. Like you said, I think one one repetition maximum is difficult to assess. like It's hard to actually Accurately assess your one repetition maximum without some sort of assistance so or or having someone that's sort of trained to sort of take you through that um So I wouldn't encourage people to go and try and do that themselves um I think
00:44:20
Speaker
to me it's probably more getting your baseline and then knowing what that is and then working back towards that because it sounds like a lot of like what you're talking about Sim in terms of this time coming back to it you know what your numbers are and you're sort of trying to work back towards that I think every person probably is different strengths in different areas um so knowing more about what your baseline is but if you're very new to strength training your baseline's not going to be accurate. So ah I would say like after maybe six to 12 months of lifting consistently, then you might have a better idea of what your baseline is.
00:44:57
Speaker
um yeah ah I think in the injury realm there's maybe some injuries that require certain levels, what would be beneficial to get to certain levels and that's sort of what we're talking about with the calf and I think calf is maybe one of the most important of this sort of, not the most important muscle per se but the most important to sort of talk about a specific measure. And like, for example, with my calf, we're trying to get me up to two times body weight um or over two times body weight, because endurance runners probably should be able to do two to 2.5 times their body weight for through the calf. Because that's how the calf works when we're running. um So you sort of need to be able to be able to push out that force. um So that I think the calf metric is generally useful. But again, if you're not having issues with your calf,
00:45:50
Speaker
I think just a good practical tip is if you haven't started if you haven't been lifting before, get into the gym, start moving through those movement patterns, slowly build up the weight that you can lift and after six to 12 months you have an idea of what yours is. is, so then then you can sort of come back to that ah down the track. um So that's, yeah, that's that's how I'd work with sort of max force. And again, it's, like I said, it's hard to test max force because that's one repetition max when I'm testing my yeah calf.
00:46:22
Speaker
I'm doing it with Locky with a force plate um connected to an ah iPad, which I'm looking at pushing up against the bar, getting some visual feedback so I can really push, push, push, push as hard as I can. um That's testing my maximum force that I can push out against the bar when the bar is not moving, but that's hard to set up. yeah It's hard to set up for your glutes and your quads.
00:46:48
Speaker
Yeah, and that's also a much safer way to do it. Exactly. You could probably do it on a knee extension move and isolate the quad. um Maybe a leg extension machine, but again, it's difficult. I would shy definitely shy away from one repetition maximum testing on a squat or a deadlift unless you're really experienced with those movements.
00:47:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think the injury risk is a I wouldn't want to put what I what my guess of a one rep max would be on a bar and try and lift it. Like could I lift it? Probably. Is there Like, do I need to know? That's kind of, and because when you're at your limits, that's where things can go wrong. Whereas if you're trying to like build up slowly, and like I'm, I'm not saying anyone that has just starting, like I started 10 years ago with my 10 kilo dumbbell in my doublet squat, getting their pattern going. Like you've got to start from where you're at. But I think.
00:47:43
Speaker
Yeah, over the years, as I've gotten to a point with strength where, like, every year, like my numbers, the, what I hit this week is more the baseline. And I definitely go up from here as I can, because I know what I then try and hit as, like, my max numbers. I'm back up to my minimum numbers, not my maximum numbers. But the, yeah the I think it's more just what I've observed from people of when they're at a really good strength. And it's not everyone because lifting heavy isn't for everyone, which is where I'm going to throw to Vlad, where I don't... do you have you Have you ever done like... I know from all your strength things I've watched. it's I love it because it's simple. It's easy to do. It's lightweight. People can fit it in anywhere and everywhere. And at the end of the day, things that you can fit in and you can do is better than anything that you're going to not be motivated to or don't have access to.
00:48:32
Speaker
But have you ever done a round of like a period of your life where you were lifting heavy? Yeah, I mean I lifted very heavy before I started running so I used to like I'm i'm a pretty small guy I'm only like 170 but before I started running I used to be able to bench press 110, maybe 120. So like that was the day. Kilos. Yeah, kilos. When I go to the gym, this is probably like five, six reps max. But this is when I used to go to the gym like every day. Yeah. A lot of like upper body stuff. Obviously now, I'm still 170. I haven't grown in the last 10 years. But I'm 58 kilograms right now. So back then, I was 75 maybe, I'm 78. Yeah.
00:49:18
Speaker
Yeah, that ah that I had a few years of like upper body lifting. We never really did legs. Legs wasn't that important, I guess, 20 years ago. Love that. now Yeah, so now I would say that for the last, so I've been running for 12 years and I've been running, I've never had an injury like knock on wood of like, you know, I've rolled my ankle in South Korea, missed one day of running, maybe another few days here and there from like a cold or getting sick or COVID. um So I've never had like an injury And I always wondered maybe I'm not doing enough in that sense, but every year I'll probably do maybe like 10 weeks of very low lifting. So that would be like,
00:50:00
Speaker
a max of a third of my body weight. So I might do like weighted step ups, let's say on a box with two 10 kilogram dumbbells. So still a bit of weight, but not much weight. So I would only do that for maybe like six to 10 weeks a year. And then the rest of the year is very low stuff. So like what you talked about,
00:50:23
Speaker
And in my head, it's always been about not getting injured because I feel like I don't want to risk lifting heavy that I might get injured because obviously I see a lot of track runners, even in my group, lift very heavy, a lot of injuries. So I'm like, I don't really want to be injured. So I'd rather play it safe, do a lot of strength work, so probably six, seven times a week, but only about 15 to 20 minutes a day.
00:50:47
Speaker
And then focus a lot more on stability, balance, and yeah, kind of really light exercises. So I do a lot of calf raises, but just with body weight. I do a fair amount of strength work, but it's all very easy. So it's almost like an add-on to my training rather than like the training itself. yeah But saying that, like, you know, I'm I'm 37, 12 years of running. I've never had an injury. Maybe I should be trying something very different to try and have the next breakthrough. I think that this year, my main goal is probably doing a lot more speed throughout the year. So for the last few years, I did improve a lot because I've been doing speed work and faster stuff. But I would only do it again for a few months a year only, where this year, my goal is like,
00:51:34
Speaker
let's try and do a speed work for the whole year and see like you know the benefits of that and then I'm also gonna do a bit of cycling which is kind of strength to an extent obviously not the same as lifting heavy but maybe next year I can throw in you know a couple of good months of lifting a bit heavier and seeing where that's gonna take me um maybe the fact that I've never been injured means that I should be pushing a bit more like trying a bit harder in different areas even though like you know on average. I think you're just bulletproof man. Yeah well maybe I'm just not pushing hard enough that kind of came into my mind in the last two years. Yeah I like I think because you've got such good biomechanics and you move so well like there's there is people that definitely
00:52:19
Speaker
ah just because of genetics, biomechanics, all of the things. Like when, when you're running, you can almost see why you you don't get injured. You look even, you look smooth from my end at least. But the, uh, yeah, so it's interesting that, cause I feel more even and less injury prone off the heavy lifting, but obviously it takes some adjusting.
00:52:41
Speaker
But I've definitely I have long periods of time where I go doing similar to what you're saying where it's like lighter weights just more often and stability based and I love my Pilates and those sorts of things. But after say six weeks of that, I almost feel like I need to get back in the gym because I'm more prone to my hips being out of whack and not being able to produce the power off the ground that I normally can. And it's interesting because it is all entirely individual where different people will get different effects. And I know talking to Jess, she loves her heavy lifting and she took a two week break and wasn't happy. Like she was like, I need to get back and lift heavy. um And yeah, it's just I've from being in the gym, there is some people that when I watch them move in the gym and lifting,
00:53:23
Speaker
um Well, A, you want to be taught how to do it properly, because if you're not doing it properly, you're 100% more likely to cause damage than help. um And that's where I've seen definitely some athletes that are incredibly good in one area, and they get in the gym, and they almost try and perform at the same level in the gym without the same level of knowledge, and they run into a lot of trouble. I've seen a lot of elite athletes lifting very poorly. um because But that's more because they haven't been taught, but then they look at big numbers and go, yeah, I should be able to do that. So
00:53:53
Speaker
There's definitely an overconfidence thing, I think, at times to some really good runners getting injured in the gym. um But at the same time, yeah, I'm not about to give every single person that I work with heavy lifting as their gym, yeah I'm going to give probably it's almost 50 50, I'd say, where there's some people I go, No, you just need stability, you need to benefit from all of this, these small things, or you're able to tolerate such a high running load that adding fatigue from the gym is actually just a risk factor. Because you're too tired already.
00:54:22
Speaker
Yeah, so I think I absolutely agree. So I think like that's probably going to benefit some people, but there is probably some other stimulus that a lot of runners could do and you know improve on before going there.
00:54:38
Speaker
Um, you know, with my personal running, obviously just kind of adding speed since COVID made a massive difference to my fitness and I wish I would have done it 10 years earlier. Um, could be the same with lifting, but I just feel like you also have to be careful about how much load you are putting on your body and how much rest you have. So I think like we can look at a lot of professional athletes and go, well, he's running quick. He's lifting heavy is, you know, but also like.
00:55:06
Speaker
you know, they don't have a full-time job, they might be resting. Yeah, it takes time. yeah Yeah, exactly. So I think that there's, it it is like, you know, just like trying to find the middle ground and and experimenting yourself. um Yeah. But it's definitely not for everybody.
00:55:21
Speaker
Yeah. And there's this adjustment period where like people have heard me now get on the podcast and complain about how crap running feels for the last few weeks. And it does. It feels, most days feel shocking. And the only reason I put up with it is because I know in two weeks time, once my body's used to this, now that I've gotten to the lifts that I want to be able to do and I keep them stable, in two weeks time, I'll be lifting the same weight and I won't be too sore or tired the next day. But I still have that load in there that my body then gets used to and feels strong with.
00:55:49
Speaker
And so I wouldn't put up necessarily with how I feel when I'm running the next day. Like today's run felt shocking because of yesterday's squats, but in two weeks time it won't. And, but I know that because I've done it before and sometimes getting like sticking with that process, but also making sure people.
00:56:06
Speaker
Back off on the running speeds or like there's enough recovery time between things like if I was trying to do all of my easy runs at my normal easy run pace of what I would be doing if I wasn't lifting heavy the day before I probably would end up injured in a few weeks because I can feel how fatigued my legs are and I'm no longer running and It's not easy anymore at that pace. What's easy is like 20 to 30 seconds a case lower. And it's fine for this short period. Would I ever want to be doing it before a race? No, my confidence would be shot and my legs would be cooked.
00:56:38
Speaker
So yeah, sometimes that's the hardest thing when I'm trying to counsel people when developed. And to be this can happen with the small strength as well, like with the shorter, lighter way to stuff. Because if you hit enough of your stabilizers that haven't been worked in a while, they can be real sore the next day. And you might need to run slower if you haven't done it before or haven't done it in a while.
00:56:58
Speaker
So I think half of it is just educating people on if you're trying new things in the gym or adding anything there, you need to back off somewhere else while you do it in order to make it sustainable and actually make it injury prevention as opposed to just a risk in some ways.
00:57:14
Speaker
Oh, it's it's a session in itself. that's And I think that's probably why Vlad doesn't need it as much. And you see plenty of, there's plenty of really good runners that aren't doing heavy lifting in the gym and they're doing more of a program like Vlad. I think for Vlad, it's probably, he did that lifting, he has that lifting history. So he developed that for force producing ah capacity when he was younger.
00:57:39
Speaker
and And since then, probably, his running has maintained his strength. And and you can, like, doing speed work, hill work, those are also strength stimuluses. And for certain people, they are enough, and they don't need to get that from heavy lifting. um And I think probably, like, for Vlad, it's a bit of his history of doing some lifting in the past, and then um having, like you're saying, having that good running economy, supplementing it with that ah those I would call those exercises or that type of strength training, like more conditioning type exercises you're trying to maintain or in so if if you haven't done it before, increase the capacity of of the muscle and the tendon more so than you are trying to increase the pure force that it can put out. The strength training you're trying to increase, like if you're doing heavy weighted stuff, you're trying to increase the force that the muscle can produce. You're also doing that when you're doing speed work or heel work.
00:58:37
Speaker
so It's about stimulus probably and if you're getting enough from your running ah that you can get it more, you don't need to get it from the gym, then you can probably just work on what Vlad's doing and work on the capacity of the muscle and tendon unit and keep it healthy. And that's where some of those basic tests can come in. I think we were talking a little bit offline before Sim in terms of calf raise is a good one that has a metric around it of like,
00:59:01
Speaker
Everyone should really be able to do 30. And there's there's a few other tests. Single leg. Single leg calf raise 30 times. You should be able to do that. If you can't do that, you should start working on some calf raises. That's an easy one. um There's a few other ones that are good capacity tests in terms of like a side plank.
00:59:21
Speaker
a plank, a Copenhagen sort of bridge hold, which is looking at your adductors, a hamstring bridge, which looks at your hamstrings. um The metrics around those are a little less known, I think. um But yeah, if you're worried about, youre not if you're not sure if you're not sure like if you've got the capacity in the particular muscle group or something like that or you want to work on it, the best the point of call is to to go and see someone and work with them. So like a strength and conditioning coach or a physiotherapist or an exercise physiologist, like someone who works in the sort of space that will know it um and get them to have a look at how you're moving. because
01:00:03
Speaker
It's mostly about how you're moving. And I think we know that Vlad moves very nicely. So he's just maintaining his nice running economy. Some other people might need to work on it before they get to that point. And it's all very person specific. Yeah. And I think once you sorry, go. Yeah, sorry. No, I think going back to that, like I think I might try some heavier lifting next year, yeah you know, to kind of test it out. like I'm at that point where I can probably test some of those things to try and have another breakthrough, hopefully. um ye So i am I know like, you know, obviously I've trained with some good track runners and they do a fair amount of lifting. So I know there's benefits to it. But yeah, again, I think it's just finding that balance between the training that you do a cycling, strength work and all that and making sure you're not overdoing it because you might be taking steps backwards in other areas.
01:00:57
Speaker
Yeah. And there is a good amount of research for, and this is completely aside from running, but especially as you age for the bone health aspect of it, that the if you can lift heavier weights earlier, you'll maintain strength for longer into life. That's just a completely a separate aside, but your bones will be stronger or maintain more um density if you are lifting heavier weights. And you're not going to get that from some of the conditioning exercises. For that it is actual like strength lifting.
01:01:26
Speaker
and those sorts of things. But I think 100% I agree with what Brady was saying, where once you've done a certain amount of lifting and built a certain capacity, you don't lose that very
Strength Maintenance and Race Policies
01:01:37
Speaker
quickly. And I think what I've just done in terms of I took, like I didn't lift heavy for three, four months. um And even before that, for the while I was in season, my weights were probably half to three quarters of what I would normally do. So I'm going to say there's eight months between me doing what I would normally do heavy lifting wise. And it only took me three weeks to get back there. Like it's not as if it disappears real quickly once you've built that capacity. So I think there is to definitely a point that once you've built enough capacity in the muscles to and strength, I should say, in the muscles to produce power and that sort of thing.
01:02:14
Speaker
Running does a great job of maintaining it, particularly trails and hills. Um, because yeah, even week one back in the gym, I see made the weights lower, but I felt strong. Like I felt like I could go heavier and that was off a three month break completely from gym. So yeah, it's not as if you have, you have to do it all the time. It's not like running in that way, thankfully, because if it was like running, it would probably be a lot more painful to get back into it. Um, any, anything to add to that discussion?
01:02:42
Speaker
No, I think you know for people that are listening and do want to try and add in some weights, just go really slow, take your time. like Obviously, definitely the benefits you're going to see are not like right away. You might see some, but better off start light, get the form correct, get your body kind of used to doing something different and see how that feels with your running as well. like Obviously, if that affects your running form and your ability to do key sessions, um then just back off a little bit, lift a little bit lighter. And just, you know, look at it as a big picture of like, I want to get a lot stronger with this year, but not like tomorrow. So yeah, take your time with it, because I've seen too many um people that do get injured. And I feel like a lot of that has to do with lifting too much, probably too soon. And like going to the gym with your friend and going like, Oh, well, he's doing 60 kilograms, I should be doing 60. But
01:03:33
Speaker
maybe a bit you know you' a bit more tired from that key session yesterday and maybe you get a lot of benefit from just doing 20 kilograms and yeah just you have to be smart there i don't think there's like you know a perfect you know amount of lifting and weights you should be doing or rather you should really go by feel and um be smart about it and take like the long road to get to that strength. 100%. I agree there. And also just if you're unsure, don't do it by yourself. like At least get a couple of sessions with someone looking at your form. If you're asking, am I doing this right to yourself and you're trying to lift heavy, not a good situation to be in usually. Having eyes on you can actually help a lot. But
01:04:14
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a, it's a good little, little strength discussion there while me and Brody are in some strength-building phases of our years and um training. I'm looking forward to a month's time when you get to at least reap a little bit more of the benefits. um To finish us off, we do have one, little one small listener question that has come in from James Seba, actually.
01:04:34
Speaker
um to to quick discussion on the topic of the selection policy and the Short Trail champs. And he's he's asked, do you know the that the Oz Short Trail champs fall outside the qualification window? It seems weird. And I suppose my answer is yes. ah we but We were aware um the Short Trail championships are five peaks ah in South Australia in April, and the window closes 31st of March. um I can't remember the date in April, but essentially they're outside the window. And from small discussions I've had with people in the area, and probably what I think I would have thought too is that it's pretty obvious that and the Short Trail Championships this year, being five peaks, which is an incredible event, 58Ks throughout LA with the best vibe, been there before,
01:05:28
Speaker
It's nothing like the World Champs course. um It's a 58K on beautiful non-flowy trails. Yes, it has the tooth. I think it's got 2000 meters or so up and down over 58K. But then when you look at that compared to world champs, which is 44K with 3,700, it's in some ways chalk and cheese um because different runners are going to excel at different ones. So I personally don't disagree with the fact that it can't play into selection because of the window, but also
01:06:01
Speaker
If I was going for the team, I'm not sure it would be a race that I put forward to show my ability for a race like the one that World Champs is going to be. um Would in an ideal world the Short Trail Championships be as close as possible in likeness to the World Championship course and within the window? 100%. Is that always possible from Oz with the calendar and wanting to make sure that the team is selected in time to actually book their flights and organize their travel and everything because we're from Oz. ah like It's not always possible. but um But yeah, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I think it's it's just going to take time, I think, until they get it right.
01:06:42
Speaker
I think that obviously I don't think they thought about it when they made the decision. Maybe in the coming years they will kind of go, okay, well, world champs is this kind of course, let's try and find whatever is closest to it in Australia. I think that they were kind of like announced separately and there wasn't any thinking behind it. That's why it falls outside the the window as well.
01:07:04
Speaker
um And it's tough, obviously, that race in Spain, I can imagine it being super technical, a lot of obviously a lot of elevation. So it's, it's pretty much like almost a different sport. um So yeah, I wish there could be a little bit more.
01:07:18
Speaker
um I guess kind of thinking behind what race is going to the qualification periods and how much weight there is behind them, but it just might take a couple of years and we've seen things that are getting better, but yeah, obviously things are still, um yeah, not 100% there. Yeah. Brody, you still with us? Yeah, yeah. It's, yeah, like it's hard.
01:07:41
Speaker
to be fair the duration might be similar to what world champs is like it's going to be a very different course but the duration of that race might be very similar um to be fair there's probably not many races in Australia that come close to what the race in Spain is going to be like um just because we don't have those types of mountains or races with that percentage of vert within them. So yeah, it's it's tricky to put the champs. I would like to think that you can put the short trail champs, think ahead enough to put the short trail champs within the period would make sense, um whether or not it's relevant or super relevant. I think it's ah it's relevant in that it should attract
01:08:30
Speaker
If we're marketing it right, it should attract a good field, which makes it relevant for selection. um So yeah, hopefully in future years. But again, these things that we're still developing, we're still a young sport, um we can't do everything perfect. It does give this year, there's there's lots of flexibility for people to do a race that suits them or sorry, that suits within their calendar um or to use a race that they did at the end of last year or within last year, most of last year. So yeah, there's pros and pros and cons to it not being a,
01:09:03
Speaker
the number one selection race cuz of the flip side is you say i will that's a selection race and it's got heavy waiting and everyone has to go to south australia and compete there which makes it a bit more difficult when they have other commitments that other races that maverick and all that so uh... Yeah, I can sort of see the reasons why they may not have included it in the period as well. Yeah, and I think yeah our period is different to a lot of other countries just in terms of making sure the teams announced. I'm assuming making sure the teams announced a little earlier. At least it's definitely been that way in previous years um because
01:09:37
Speaker
last minute organisation from here is harder. But at least I think for this selection policy, there's a lot of freedom for you put forward your I think it's three best, what you think is your three best results that show your ability at that terrain and distance and that's everything from the 1st of April last year. And then it's by ending on the 31st of March, like things like the 46K at Kunanyi fall within the window, things like last year's Hounslow, Guzla, like some things that are at least slightly more close to what you people will be experiencing at World Champs and all the overseas races for anyone that did race overseas, Asia Pacific Champs, those sorts of things.
01:10:18
Speaker
They're all still within the window. So i do think like it's still fair for everyone in that way and it still lets everyone put their best foot forward, but there's just no auto selection and there's no heavily weight heavier weighted races, one and the other, um which in some ways, as Brody said, makes it can make seem to make it more fair at times at least because access is equal.
01:10:40
Speaker
It's not as if there's one race that everyone has to be able be able to travel to on one weekend and have the money to go and the sort of time and everything. so Mind you, if they kind of plan it, if they plan it in advance and you knew like a year before that that would be, at least there'll be one or two spots at that race, I think it would be good for the sport in general and for like people to show up, race and and have a race that gets all the better runners that do want to go to the world champs.
01:11:08
Speaker
Um, but I think it would just, it will happen. It will definitely happen. Hopefully in the next few years, but it will definitely happen. Yeah. And I think we saw that the previous time when they had Kunanyi 66K, um, where that got at least on the step version on the female side, that got some stellar fields and epic competition because there were spots up for grabs. Um, and like it was overall, first fires goes a very suitable course. So.
01:11:33
Speaker
Yeah, it's like it's doable. It just takes a lot of prior planning. And sometimes it's like the world champs courses aren't actually announced that far in advance when you talk about a year or two or a year and a half to plan. um yeah yeah Let's think about the Asia Pacific Trail champs, um you know, technically next year, but no information about it. So unless that's going to come.
01:11:58
Speaker
Very soon, again, we're going to face similar problems as well for that. um Yeah. Yeah. It's just, I guess, yeah, what Brody said, we're a young sport. Not not a young sport, but like, you know, it's it's it's been young since the sport has been professionalized, I guess. Young young in terms of organization, maybe. Yeah. like Like, yeah, professional organization. I think that, yeah, the last, I guess, five, six years, it it really jumped a lot, like, probably the same amount that he has for the last, like, 30 years before. um So yeah, I think that it just, it will take time to adjust. Obviously, some countries that are doing better, like European countries, probably American countries,
01:12:39
Speaker
It's a little bit more professional. It's a bit more polished. And I think with time this will happen in Australia. And it just takes a couple of good results overseas and a couple of good results at a world champ. And you know those things will move faster. So hopefully we.
01:12:54
Speaker
could have some of them. Hopefully, maybe Billy lives the way, some of those results in the future. yeah love it love it awesome well yeah that's ah That's our short piece on that, James. But to move on to something, a race that is definitely not young, ah we have one bigger result for this week, Aussie-wise, that on Aussie soil, and that comes from Bogong to Hotham.
01:13:19
Speaker
which I did just look up, I think it started in 1984, a point to point race ah from i'm don't they know it's the bottom of Mount Bogong because they go up Bogong to start, I think. Do you know Brody? Yeah, I think so. well So yeah, up Bogong and then across to Mount Hotham, it is 64 kilometres. And this year, obviously israel realize ah there's the results.
01:13:44
Speaker
ah This year it was won on the women's side by Cecile Smith in 19, oh 19, in nine hours and 53 minutes. Second place was Kerry Clayton in 10 hours 27 and third Lauren Scott in 11 hours 17. On the men's side it was won by Dylan Newell in eight hours 19, Joseph Dorff not far behind in eight hours 27 and Andrew Nunn in third in eight hours 47.
01:14:14
Speaker
That's always one I've wanted to do. I think mostly because I'm always intrigued by races that have been around that long and it's point to point. But to put that in perspective for those times, the records are held by Julian Spence in 6 hours 37. And I think Lucy has women's record on it in 7 hours 48. Sheesh.
01:14:32
Speaker
So yeah, there's summer some definitely some quick times going on that course. So fun.
Weather Impact and Future Plans
01:14:40
Speaker
I think that wraps us up this week. What have you got coming up this week, Vlad? Just going to try and fight off this hit wave that's so i'm going to hit Perth. So usually like weather in Perth is actually like really good because we have like cool mornings, really warm days. So you can still train in the afternoon and the mornings. But this coming week, it's like literally a low of 26, 27 degrees and a top of like 40 degrees. So like it doesn't go down at all. um So I might actually go and try and get a gym membership for like two or three weeks and do some perfect timing, do some treadmill work. And. Considering you're training for a race at minus 15 or something. Yeah. i do
01:15:21
Speaker
Obviously, hit training is good, but like I think like two runs in the hit is probably just a bit too much. So yeah I think one run a day in the hit is pretty good and then one indoors could be good. But yeah, I'm um um'm hoping that that's not going to hit Melbourne in like 10 days from now, but it might. Probably. i'm I'm not holding my hopes too high on that one. but ah Brodie, you've got your your race coming up on the weekend and then are you straight back to Melbourne?
01:15:47
Speaker
Yeah, so the competition's Friday to Monday. um my I'll be racing Saturday, maybe Sunday, maybe Monday. I feel like it'll be likely Saturday, Sunday.
01:15:58
Speaker
um And then I fly out Tuesday morning at like 7am. So, back. Just a short trip. Awesome. can Come join me in the gym on the Wednesday. And I'm just adding another layer of a week to the bank. That's pretty much my plan. I'm actually ending this week in Mount Buller on a four-wheel-drive trip, trekking all the tracks.
01:16:21
Speaker
With the endurance medical team um squad, they go and four-wheel drive all the tracks to make sure which parts of the course are accessible by what vehicle ah before the event at Hut to Hut the ah and the Archie. So a bit of fun there. We've got to spend the weekend up in the mountains.
01:16:36
Speaker
probably doing more running than four-wheel driving because four-wheel driving ain't my jam, but I'll be there at least.
Episode Conclusion
01:16:43
Speaker
So yeah, that, my friends, is episode 41 of the Pick Pursuits podcast wrapped. We will speak to you again next week. Awesome. See you guys.