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Episode 36: Sim’s Chiang Mai 100km Race Recap, Vlad’s Race Plot Twist, and Dealing with the Heat!
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Welcome to Episode 36 of Peak Pursuits, your ultimate podcast for everything trail running in Australia. This week’s episode is hosted by Sim Brick, Brodie Nankervis, and Vlad Ixel with the team talking through a major race plot twist from Vlad, Sim’s 100km race recap from Thailand, and the prize money available at BackYard Ultras before diving into all the usual segments and results.
Start - 27:00 :- Vlad’s Plot Twist and Brodie Becomes a Cyclist
We kick off with Vlad giving us a rundown of where he is at in training before he chucks in the most random race choice you could possibly imagine for early next year. Then hear how Brodie has done a quick switch from runner to cyclist and his plan to take on the Festive 500 as his achilles heals.
27:00 - 1:10:00 :- Sim’s 100km Race Recap
We then get a deep dive into the lead in and race day from Sim for everything that went dow in Thailand, before Sim answers listener questions about heat acclimatisation, race day cooling strategies, strength training and more.
1:10:00 - End :- Race Results + Backyard Ultra Prize Money Chat
We then cover a few Aussie races that went down over the weekend:
6 inch trail marathon (WA) https://my.raceresult.com/306427/results#1_0B9E46
Adelaide Trail Runners Series 2 (SA) https://www.webscorer.com/race?raceid=375449
The Last Legend (VIC) https://trailsplus.com.au/LL2024/
And finish off with Brodie posing the question of why Back Yard ultras are offering up more and more prize money in Australia.
Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits! Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and your own trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
Sim: @theflyingbrick_
Brodie: @brodienank
Vlad: @vladixel
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/mood-maze/trendsetter
License code: K08PMQ3RATCE215R
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Transcript
Surviving Melbourne Heat
00:00:08
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode 36 of the Peak Pursuits podcast. My name is Simone Brick coming to you from Melbourne and I am joined by Brody, also in Melbourne at the moment and suffering through this 41 degree day. How are we doing Brody?
00:00:24
Speaker
Yeah, pretty good. Bit of a random day in amongst some normal days, just a 43 out of the blue. ah Yes, that was pretty hot, but um yeah, it was a warm ride home from work, which I didn't really enjoy that much. Sort of felt like I was riding through a sauna with a bit of wind, um yeah which was fun. Fun. ah
Weather Contrast: Perth vs Melbourne
00:00:44
Speaker
The joys. Now, I've also joined by Vlad Exel over in Perth. Please tell me you're getting a better day of it, Vlad.
00:00:51
Speaker
No, 24 degrees. I'm actually sitting here with a jumper. It's actually really cool today. That's balmy for someone from WA. But it is going to get warmer. I had a look at it. We had a couple of hot days, so that hit wave that you're getting now, we had it a couple of days ago, and yeah, it wasn't fun. um But we got like a 41 degree day on Wednesday coming up, so yeah. Yeah, fun. No fun.
00:01:15
Speaker
they're starting to hit. I find one day is okay because you can use it as an excuse to catch up on things, but it's when it goes to two or three that you're just like, nah, I'm done. Yeah, it doesn't cool down through the night. Yeah, that's there. It's always the
Podcast Preview: Race Recaps & Backyard Ultras
00:01:27
Speaker
hell. But for those of you listening, what we have coming up this show is we'll catch up with Vlad and Brody, see where they're at, and you'll get a rundown of my race at Chiang Mai.
00:01:40
Speaker
elephant100k, geez, I can still remember the name, promise. um And then we have Brody's posed a question to us that we're going to chat through about Backyard Ultras and we'll get you some results of the week, which we've got some pretty cool events that are a bit different and unique, which is cool.
00:01:57
Speaker
Hello Peak Pursuit listeners! This is just a quick interruption with some exciting news to say that Bix Hydration are offering everyone listening the chance to get 20% off all products online if you just use the code PPP. That is 20% off the gels, off the hydration tablets, there's salt tablets on there, and there's the fuel mix all online. 20% off, just use the code PPP.
00:02:26
Speaker
at checkout to pick up some Bix products that will help you get through those runs a little bit easier and recover better for the next one. To get us started, I'm going to throw to you first Vlad. How's your week been and where are you at in terms of you've actually got more racing coming up? Soonest out of the rest of us, I think.
Vlad's Training for Hong Kong 133K
00:02:44
Speaker
Well, I'm exactly one month away from the Hong Kong 133K event. And last week when I was on the podcast, I was kind of thinking,
00:02:54
Speaker
Yeah, I'm probably just going to try and cycle and run so I don't double run yet. But then I kind of felt like my fitness wasn't picking up as quickly as I wanted to. So I started double running again. And um even after like one week of double running, I'm feeling already a little bit fitter. So I'm back to, yeah, kind of basic double runs, two sessions a week. Is that physically or psychologically fitter?
00:03:20
Speaker
I'm not sure. I'm not sure. But I kind of felt like, you know, so cycling in the morning and then kind of jogging at night. But after like three weeks, I felt like, ah I don't know if I'm like actually like picking up fitness as quickly as what I usually would. um So yeah, this week was double run kind of days got to maybe about 11 hours of running. So still not a crazy amount with about four hours of cycling. So yeah, not not crazy amount of training, but I'm definitely feeling fitter. And I'm kind of feeling that pressure of going into a three hour race in in another month um after like having nine days off, I don't know, just kind of getting scared. So I'm kind of trying to cram in some training right now.
00:04:03
Speaker
The number of much, much longer distance races I've gone into after weeks and months off, you'll be fine, I promise. You have that many years behind you. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. You've been running for so long. your body that doesn't You could turn out with with two months off, I reckon. You'd be all
Frozen Lake Marathon in India
00:04:19
Speaker
right. You'd still run maybe like 5% different or 2% different. but yeah Yeah, it's probably a bit of the confidence as well. Like I think confidence, obviously going into a race, confident makes a massive difference. But last year that race, um the top three guys, I finished second, the top three guys were all within like a minute of each other.
00:04:37
Speaker
Oh, it's fun. Yeah, it's pretty tight. And um yeah, kind of wanting to well, I come in two minds, right? I know there's going to be a long another long year of racing. So I don't want to like overdo it too soon. But then at the same time, I don't want to go all the way to Hong Kong and then um not run too well. I know that Billy Billy's coming. So I'm pretty excited to yeah catch up with him. I've been telling him about how cool Hong Kong trails are. And now that is in Japan is that he's going to come for the race. And I'm sure there'll be quite a lot of good runners show up for that race. It's got to be, it's pretty much the biggest, I guess, trail race in Hong Kong. I'm there mainly for the expo, which is a big expo, but um yeah. yeah kind I love how you say you're there mainly for the expo, but then you put so much pressure on yourself to race well.
00:05:26
Speaker
Yeah, I just can't go all the way to Hong Kong and not race a race. Yeah, probably not the wisest. Considering I haven't really talked about it, but I actually just booked my flights to India. And three weeks after Hong Kong, I'm actually going to India for the first time for a marathon on a frozen lake at 4000 meters of gain. Yeah, pretty crazy.
00:05:50
Speaker
Wait,
Altitude Training Challenges
00:05:51
Speaker
what? A marathon with 4,000 meters? It's like the biggest plot twist. I've, one of the biggest plot twists I've ever heard. What? No, no, no. It's not weirder and weirder. Every word you spoke just, what is going on? While juggling free balls, that's the matter. Yeah, yeah. No, it's a, well, it's an ice, a frozen lake, like an ice lake at 4,200 meters a game. At 4,000? Oh my gosh, no.
00:06:21
Speaker
Yeah, so a bit more of like, kind of like I've never been to India. You know, I thought it might be a good chance. I'm going to go over for like five days, do that race. You kind of have to get there two or three days before. um How are you going to go racing 4,200 meters when you're only there two or three days before? um I got an altitude 10, so I'll probably spend okay think probably like a month sleeping at maybe three or four thousand meters.
00:06:48
Speaker
But then again, it's going to be more like a fun event. It's not going to be super competitive or I think it's like the second of the day. There's diminishing returns for how high you sleep in a tent. Yeah, I'm not going to sleep like super high, even though I don't know how accurate my Chinese altitude tent is. So I always put it on the max.
00:07:09
Speaker
Oh no. I just put it on like 8,000 meters and hope that I get like 1,500 meters. Do you have a pop-up oxygener? Like, do you have a thing on your finger to check your oxygen levels? Because this just sounds like every disaster that I've ever told anyone can happen with an altitude tent. Don't do this at home, kids. I only express all the way for altitude tents.
00:07:31
Speaker
Oh my gosh, this is kind of a lot to do. so Why are
Motivation Behind India Trip
00:07:35
Speaker
you doing this race? What led to you starting? Because it sounds like it might be a bit of a story that led to you doing the race.
00:07:42
Speaker
No, so I got a friend in India and he's always like, you know, you got to come down. He came down to to to see me in Australia like a year ago, and I've always promised him I'm going to come to India, but I needed like an excuse so I can tell my wife, hey, I'm actually going to India for a race. um And then how going for a race is more of an excuse than going to see a friend than most people would do.
00:08:03
Speaker
Yeah, I can't really justify kind of going for a week. I mean, it's with the flight is like a whole week, they'll be away. um So I kind of just go like, hey, I'm going away to see a friend for a week. Enjoy looking after our child by yourself. So yeah, so it's together with the race is also like organized like a video, film a guy to kind of document some of it as well.
00:08:30
Speaker
oh yeah So yeah, it's going to be a bit of, I think a bit of an adventure. You know, I've been kind of promising that I'm going to come for like a few years and I've never, I've never been to India. So it's actually, I'm excited about that. And then seeing, you know, the him, like the Himalaya part of India, who gets the one that is like right on the Chinese border there, yeah which is different. I've been to the other side in China, um which is really cool in Yadin.
00:08:54
Speaker
um So yeah, I think it's like the highest marathon in the world or something like that. It's would yeah like a tell yeah it's like the second year that they do it. um And yeah, it just looks cool. Like I said, it's not going to be competitive. ah I mean, I got to find some um shoes that I'm going to run on the ice with. ah No idea. Are they going to have like Diamox and oxygen tanks at the aid stations? Or like... I don't know. Yeah. Please tell me you're taking some. Like, just just stay safe. That's all I'm going to say. A marathon at 4,200 metres is no joke. My goodness. It's cool. yeah Very cool life experience.
00:09:34
Speaker
Yeah, it's definitely going to be something I remember. I think I had that kind of goal to run a race in a country I've never been to in 2025. So that kind of also kind of hits that thing. But yeah, it's definitely going to be um a challenging experience. Is that a goal you made up to fix that fit this race? Or did this race fit the goal? It's part of the goals that I got to convince my wife while I'm going away again.
00:10:00
Speaker
But love it yeah, it's going to be fun. Obviously, I'll be telling you all about it and hopefully. I was going to say, following this is going to be gold. Yeah. All for the podcast. Oh, great. Okay. So after that plot twist, where did we get up to? You did 11 hours running, four hours on the bike, and you're going to be fitter than you currently think you are for this 30K. Is that where we're at?
00:10:24
Speaker
I think so. I think like, I don't know, just a double running mentality of confidence that that brings. um But I'm already feeling fitter. So I probably could have just cycled for an hour in the morning and and ran an hour in the afternoon, I probably would have been at the same fitness level. But yeah, confidence wise, like, I feel a bit better, a little bit stronger. And then I just got back into track sessions as well, um which haven't really done since before Europe. So May,
00:10:54
Speaker
May, yeah, kind of May, I guess, early May. So that's also a bit of a challenge, kind of like going like, yeah, I'm okay, i'm maybe i live but I'm pretty fit, but like, you know, speed has gone, um threshold pace is really slow right now. So yeah. Yeah, that's a good point, though, because there's plenty of times for everyone I coach that I do actually start to give them depending on where they're at in their training cycle or mentality or everything before a race, there's plenty of times I start giving them training purely for the mental confidence.
00:11:24
Speaker
or types of sessions and those sorts of things. If someone's not feeling good about an event they've got coming up, I will 100% change training around for more the mental aspect than anything. So like it works. it's It's still helpful. It's still going to make a difference to you. so Yeah, absolutely. And I think just going into the race feeling confident that, you know, mentally, even though maybe your fitness is not there, but your mental kind of headspace is there, um is definitely a bit more relaxing as well, rather than start kind of worrying about the race more. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, like I said, it's still going to be like a long year. um It's not
00:12:02
Speaker
as much downtime as I would like to have. But like I've complained on this podcast before, I am getting old. So not many years left of competitive running. So I am trying to squeeze every year of competitive running. Acting the youngest of all of us.
00:12:19
Speaker
yeah I think as you get older, like I've been i've like nothing to do with running, but I've been coming a bit more nostalgic lately as I get older. It's weird. Nice. Yeah. Very cool. The wise old man of the podcast. I like it. Except for the fact don't listen to him on Altitude Advice, people. like It's not wise there, but that's all good. ah Awesome. Well, Brody, how have you been this week and where is your training slash the dreaded word
Brody's Fitness Focus: Cycling & Gym
00:12:48
Speaker
Achilles at. Yeah, like pretty good. I think it seems to be turning the corner. I don't know. I'm in a weird space at the moment where I'm very happy just doing my cross training and and working on my Achilles rehab. um I'm not so much rushing back for anything at the start of next year. Like I have a few ideas of what I would like to do next year and a few things that I've already sort of like.
00:13:10
Speaker
somewhat committed to but like I'll sort of see how how things go. I've been on the bike, um taking a good advantage to a good time to sort of get fit on the bike because I found when I first started riding, I really struggled to get my heart rate up. um even sort of using my sort of arm heart rate to try and get like a fairly accurate heart rate, I still couldn't sort of budget much above 140, 145. So that's sort of, but that's come pretty quickly. Like that was just maybe the first few rides and every more ride I do, I can i feel like I can push up towards the top of zone two a bit easier. um So yeah, I think it's a good ah good opportunity for me to sort of work on my bike fitness so that I can use it as a training.
00:13:56
Speaker
technique more. um ah Yeah, I think I'm sorry to break it up. I think I'm in a similar position. Do you feel like it's like you you lack power? So you're like, you don't have enough technically like power on the bike or like, you know, putting enough watts?
00:14:11
Speaker
definitely yeah yeah definitely like in the um uh like in the seated position on the bike i really struggle to develop power and that's getting a lot better and i've talked to like a friend who transitioned from right running to riding as well and he had the same sort of issue so um like up out of the saddle like i feel like i'm okay and i guess that's more like the running motion a bit more calf um but in the in the saddle like struggle to was struggling to sort of to push and I always felt limited by my quads just sort of like feeling a bit lactic-y and feeling lactic at a heart rate, which is not really my lactic threshold. So like really local level reaching lactic, whereas not systemically. um So yeah, I think I'm sort of starting to get a bit stronger in on the bike, particularly in that sort of seated position.
00:15:04
Speaker
um And yeah, I've sort of like shied away from doing this in the past um because I'm like, well, that's not really the running motion. That's not really like, you don't need to get strong in that position for running. um But yeah, I think this, I've started started listening, like there's so many like really high level athletes that use bike to a huge extent. um And I think if you've got people on the, top like many, many people on the top level using bike as a stimulus quite a bit, and then it's probably,
00:15:33
Speaker
I think that thinking of it that way is probably ah not very useful and it probably is ah the physiological benefit it can have to your aerobic system if you're utilizing it well as a training technique probably outweighs if there is any detriment to getting strong in that position.
00:15:48
Speaker
um So yeah, it's it's been good actually. I'm really enjoying it. I did about 16 hours of cycling last week on my gravel bike. So I've just got one, I've just got like one cog. um So I can't go very fast. Whenever we go downhill, I can like i max out at like 45Ks an hour. Like I can't spin any higher than that.
00:16:12
Speaker
um But yeah, I've been enjoying it. It's good. um Been riding with some friends and and ah sharing sharing the roads with them, which has been pretty cool. um And I think I did like 430 kilometres. So yeah, I've actually got my eyes set on over the Christmas period. A lot of cyclists do what they call the Festive 500, where they ride 500k between Christmas and New Year, which is seven days.
00:16:37
Speaker
Um, and I've always looked, seen my friends or cycling friends do that and go, Oh, that'd be so cool. I want to do that. And there's no good like running variant to that. Like maybe it's run a hundred miles. I don't know. Um, but yeah, I'm actually quite excited to have a crack at that. And I feel like I'm now fit enough to try and.
00:16:52
Speaker
try and ride 500 and it's not like stupid. So um yeah, I've been really leaning into the cycling, leaning into the gym. um I've got, I'm sort of in there three days a week, um doing a full sort of leg session and then um doing also doing sort of calf work on a few other days as well. So I'm doing that about five days a week. so Yeah, it's been pretty intensive, seeing the physio, getting scans, like I'm just doing a lot of things. I feel like I've spent like 25, 30 hours dedicated to my running life without actually running at all. So it's been fun. Where do you see the cycling benefit come? So like, let's say if you only had five hours of training a week, would you kind of go in like
00:17:37
Speaker
Well, maybe you should just run five hours a week or would you say like four hours of running and one hour of cycling? I think it sort of depends on your level and I'm no expert in this, but like in my sort of coaching, like with my coaching brain, I think there's like, everyone has to reach that individual limit to their running and we have to figure out what that is. But I think more and more we're starting to realize that like not everyone's a high volume runner.
Balancing Running & Cycling
00:18:00
Speaker
Like and some people definitely can run 160, 200 Ks a week. um Some people can't, some people can run 100, 120 and to get more aerobic benefit,
00:18:11
Speaker
they're better off not running the extra Ks and actually jumping on the bike and doing it. But that's like it at the advanced level. At the, like say, beginner level, yeah, someone might be best off spending four hours running and then another hour or two cycling. I think you want to reach your limit of what you're running is and then add additional cycling if you have more time and you want to sort of go after some extra gains. That's sort of how I approach it. um So yeah, for me, I think it'll be I'm starting to think that maybe I'm a bit more low mileage than I would like to be running wise. um And that maybe it'll be like I'm doing eight to 10 hours of running and then I'm trying to add in a bit more cycling. And then maybe over time I can add in more running. But um yeah, it'll definitely be a big feature of my return to running. Like I'll add some running in, but I'll continue to cycle. And then I think even I see myself when I get back to full training running wise, I'll still be probably trying to add a bit more
00:19:08
Speaker
cycling and probably like chasing that sort of zone to aerobic gains um not doing sessions or anything like that but I think you can you can feel like you're working pretty hard on the bike and still be in zone two even if you are experienced on the on the bike um so I think it's Maybe also like a mental factor to it as well like doing your doing your session in the morning or doing just a ah Zone to run in the morning and then going out and in the afternoon when you normally would arrested jumping on the bike and it's not hurting you that much but you getting like a big training stimulus but also a psychological training stimulus I think like you've worked hard for four hours that day and in in the afternoon like
00:19:48
Speaker
it's probably going to feel hard that I think you'll probably recover not too bad. um But yeah, that's, I've been listening to a lot of podcasts, so I'm probably just regurgitating a lot of information at the moment. I think like think like you can build a lot of strength, like I think cycling wise, like especially for downhill running is super useful. I feel like when I cycle a lot, my downhill running, not that not that it gets much better, but like,
00:20:13
Speaker
then the climb that comes after the downhill feels like my legs are not as smashed and and that means that i like you know I can just run a little bit faster. um So I used to do a bit of cycling when I used to do a lot of the ultra running and then I kind of went into like shorter distances and didn't do any cycling but now I feel like there will be a benefit of doing two to three hours of cycling a week for me while trying to hit maybe like You know, 10 to 12 or 13 hours of running. Um, even, even racing kind of like two or three hour long races. Yeah. I think that makes. Oh, sorry. sam youga I going to ask if either of you use the mountain bike. Cause I find I have road bike. I'm a member of a road cycling club and I do love their sessions and stuff. And I've done a hell of a lot of it in the past, but as soon as I bought my mountain bike, the transferableness of it to trail just, ah it was amazing. I loved it.
00:21:07
Speaker
And then you get the ups and the downs. But like, you also just stay in the um choosing lines up and down hills and those sorts of things because you're on the trail. And yeah, that I like now my preference is to like, I'll be doing a lot of mountain biking over the summer. um I'll do some road biking and I find I can work harder on a road bike, especially when I'm in like doing group bunch rides where you're like rolling turns and stuff. That is damn hard stuff. But like,
00:21:34
Speaker
just for the skills and transferableness I like the mountain bike. Yeah, I think like for me, I'm just not skillful enough. I'm not saying I'm very skilled, but uphills, you don't need much skill. Yeah, but probably for the uphills, but then like I guess I even find it in just like cycling in general. like There's so much more heart rate variation than there is in ah um in a run, because yeah your heart rate, like when you go on a big downhill, your heart rate just drops. And I feel like in mountain biking, I wouldn't be able to make the most of it. But yeah, it's it's a good point. it's probably
00:22:06
Speaker
There's more variation, else possibly more specific, I don't know. But yeah, I think the eccentric piece you said, or the downhill, getting strong for downhills, but it sort of made sense in terms of like, you're in a similar position, you're loading heavy on the quads when you're sitting on in the saddle. Like it's a different contraction compared to eccentrically going downhill, but same muscle working in a sort of bent knee position makes a bit of sense, I guess, in my mind.
00:22:34
Speaker
Yeah, I will say on the mountain bike, on the downhills is where I'm hitting max heart rate because I freak myself out about every five minutes. One thing I've never realised, is that physiologically beneficial? Like, can you just scare yourself into training? Like, does that count? Like, if you just really scare your heart rates in thresholds over 10 minutes, does that count as training?
00:22:55
Speaker
I'm going downhill and not working that hard, but I'm like puffing and puffing because I'm like hyperventilating from the and my heart rate will be damn high. That's interesting. I'm going to say that it helps. I don't know if that's physiologically beneficial for like then pushing hard at that heart rate. and It's an interesting thought. If anybody knows, send us a DM on Instagram. Please. Because I'll just go and watch scary movies for training.
00:23:20
Speaker
Oh, that would be great. It would need to be constantly scary, though. That's the problem. It might be a bit freaky. Someone i might have a heart attack. Oh, Christmas. Yeah, it's been it's been good. um It's a good time of year to be on the bike um and enjoying being being out there. So, yeah. When are you going to start running?
00:23:40
Speaker
I've got like I've been working like I said, I sort of did been doing a lot of sports Sports sciencey stuff on on the on the side as well. So I went and got scans on my kelly's X-ray ultrasound I've seen my physio locky but also going to get shockwave on my tendon So another physio who's also sort of giving him him and locky know each other so they're both giving sort of working together and trying to think about what's what's best but yeah, I've got a some sort of criteria that Locky wants to meet to meet before I go back to running. Like this time I feel like because I've had a good amount of time off, there's no point wasting that. And I should be really smart about when I go back. So some things are like around hitting some, some strength targets and being able to be move that strength into more dynamic with hop hopping and, and ah sort of bounding stuff without pain and then go to running. Whereas like for the last 12 months, I've been running with some level of discomfort and sort of just like that is a feature in some tendon rehabs like it's it's good to have some but that obviously I've been pushing that a bit too much or it hasn't quite worked for this tendon so I'm coming at it with the other approach now and and I'm not expecting that when I get back to running it'll be completely pain free but I'm gonna be less ah less happy to sort of push the pain too much as I have been for the rest of this year I guess so yeah I expect sometime in early January I think I'll probably
00:25:04
Speaker
Start start running again, but I feel fit and when I have my stress fracture I cross-trained mostly with swimming actually then and I accidentally cut my hand So I haven't been able to get into the pool I'm planning to try and get into the pool over the next couple of weeks, but I feel pretty fit still So yeah, we'll see what that looks like when I get back into running. Do you have any races coming up any pressure on you?
00:25:24
Speaker
Yeah, like I wanted to sort of take away old pressure because that's sort of what I've been doing for the last two years, which has sort of put me in this position. So like I've got a few ideas of what I would like to do the start of next year. um And that's more around end of March would be the first potential race, um which I'm really hoping to stand on the start line of, but I don't want to stand on the start line again if I'm not ready for it, which was probably the case with a few races I did this
Brody's Mystery Race Plans
00:25:51
Speaker
year.
00:25:51
Speaker
There's only two races at the end of March. Yeah, what a twist. We'll tease everyone for a week. If you listen next week, I'll tell you which race I'm thinking of.
00:26:05
Speaker
Actually, I saw there's actually a third race on that exact same day. Oh yeah, true three big races technically in the game of World Champs. um ah is that The Exterra Dunsborough. Oh, is that all? Oh, wow. Is that four? and KMR, Buffalo, Mountain Running Champs. Is Mountain Running Champs on the same weekend too? Yeah, Mountain Running Champs on the same weekend again. No way. Oh, wow. It's a ah fantastic strategic planning.
00:26:32
Speaker
I know Exterra Dunsborough is like, I looked it up. It's like the Asia Pacific Champs or something and has a bunch of prize money, like 1,200 US or something for the win. Maybe I'll be changing my match race then. Yeah, I was looking it up and I'm like, it's the same bloody week day again. ah this song ah We can discuss that later. We should do a poll on my Instagram to see who thinks what race I'm going to run of those four.
00:26:57
Speaker
I think I know which one you're thinking. I think most people would guess it. A bit more technical. yeah um just Yeah. Cool. And Sim, you had a yeah had a race. we haven't seen We haven't spoken to you since um since the race.
Simone's Elephant 100 Experience
00:27:15
Speaker
how let's Let's get into it. now I think we've had a few listener questions, which is great. We'll get to that in a moment. But um do you want to start with just giving us a bit of an overview?
00:27:24
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. um It feels like a lifetime ago at this point, but I'm also still so fatigued that it definitely wasn't. um I'm still feeling it. So um yeah, it was like, I feel like it was such a, it's a case of I've had a week of decompressing now and it was such a whirlwind in the lead in that you don't quite realize what you're doing until you're there.
00:27:48
Speaker
ah But yeah, Chiang Mai, Elephant 100. So the week of the race, essentially, I had a lot going on. um Like everyone would have heard from my GPT recap that my nutrition was a bit of an absolute horrendous downfall um on that day. And I've actually been struggling with my stomach for quite a while now, a couple of months at least um since coming back from Europe. We had good patches and bad patches, but the whole last month has been a bad patch. And I'm not sure what's going on. I have a gastroskippy booked next Monday. So we're looking into it now, but I did the usual runner thing of let's put that off until after this 100K and nurse myself through. So the last few couple of runs in Oz, I was actually
00:28:34
Speaker
trialing a whole bunch of new brand new nutrition um and completely changing my nutrition plan from everything I'd done in training or operating off the assumption that like my sister I have fructose malabsorption is one of the things we're thinking. um So I was trying to avoid all fructose and go glucose only. So that was just some things that were going down for chaos in the last couple of days before I flew um I was going here there and everywhere trying to find solutions to nutrition because almost all products include fructose um in some degree. And it doesn't matter whether it's in the product or whether your body breaks it down to fructose. It might be a problem for me yet to be actually determined.
00:29:16
Speaker
um But yeah, that was just a bit of fun before the lead in. we I think I got it as sort as that I could. So I put that to the back of my mind and then I got into the into Thailand. Overnight flight. We flew out at 12.30 AM. Not fun.
00:29:29
Speaker
but um got in there on the Tuesday before and the race was on Saturday. So I had quite a few days and I thankfully had been to Chiang Mai before for World Champs 20, whenever it was, 22. And so I knew the area and I knew where I could go running at the university and I knew sort of where I could eat. So it was honestly, I had the most chill time in those last few days. I did a last session To be honest, that last session was hard because obviously it was hot, um but I had done a full 10 days heat training protocol or heat acclimatisation protocol in Oz before I flew over. So when I got there, it actually didn't feel too hot, even though every day was 30, 31, some of the days 33 feels like 38 it said, but it didn't to me feel that hot, which I took as a good sign. Did my last session, which I think was 15 minutes
00:30:22
Speaker
tempo five by one minute, something like that. um And felt good. So going into the race, like my final call with coach and like final thoughts were just taking stock of where I was at. And where I was at was that I knew my nutrition was going to hamper me. I knew that I had to be real smart if I wanted to not completely bonk. But I knew that was possible if I moderated my effort. and So i I know how to keep moving on a low amount of energy, um but you just can't push your heart rate high. So we came up with it quite a few contingency plans. Interestingly, this race, I've never had it before. They're really strict with what a crew member was allowed to take into aid stations. Like we were limited to one 30 litre bag
00:31:06
Speaker
that you could take in. You were only allowed one person. So I had both my parents there, but only one of them was allowed to help me. Like it was just an interesting change of plans last minute when we had the technical meeting with the elite coordinators the day before. I'm trying to figure all that out.
00:31:22
Speaker
but But yeah, I think i I took a rest day two days out. I actually had a run planned for 45 minutes, but then I spoke to Kel Emerson and was like, what do you do two days before your big races? And she said she rested, so I copied. um So that probably shows a bit of my mentality of going, I actually don't know what I'm doing anymore, so I better lean on people that do. um And yeah, we got to race day. um And it was a 7 a.m. start. It was interesting. The 50K started at 5 a.m., but then the 100K started at 7 a.m. And it was due to be about a 33 degree day. um but So on the hotter end for the time and feels like a lot hotter due to the humidity. So I had
00:32:09
Speaker
The best and I still, it worked amazingly. My cooling plan was the one thing that kept me going all day feeling actually pretty damn good for the conditions we were running through. But I honestly was standing on the start line. I think I would have been, I would have had two kilos of ice on my body.
00:32:27
Speaker
um And it was heavy, like I was just started. um So I had like ziplock bags filled with ah water that I'd frozen, just large ziplock bags the size of the bladder in the vest. And then so I put a frozen ziplock bag with the bottom holes all through the bottom in my vest closest to my back. So there was only mesh between me and this this large block of ice that as it melted ran down my legs.
00:32:53
Speaker
um So that worked amazingly. But then I also had ice like in my bra around my neck and down my arm sleeves. And I started like that because I was like, well, if you start cold, you try and just never get hot was my strategy. um Also, this course is an interesting start and finish. It starts and finishes with four and a half Ks of flat running.
00:33:14
Speaker
um on each end. So for that four and a half K's are flat running most of it's on the road and ah chatting to Tim we'd sort of limited me to wanting to go five minute K's on that knowing that sure there might be people running even 4.15 to 4.30s but they're making up what three minutes at the start with a much higher heart rate and harder effort that you can easily lose at the end. um So Yeah, that was just my thinking on the start line, which made the start line real chill, really, because I was like, I've just got to go for a four and a half K jog before I get to a climb that I'm hiking the whole thing. So I broke it down and didn't feel great off the start line purely because of how much ice I had. And I was like, oh, I'm like just running along feeling super heavy, which is fine because as it melted, it um felt a lot better.
00:34:02
Speaker
And um yeah, they had changed the race course a number of times in the lead up in the last couple of days. ah So I was actually quite, quite stressed about whether I had the right GPX on my watch, but I did. It was fine. um And the course still had these three massive climbs and big descents. So you went up and down a thousand meters plus each time.
00:34:25
Speaker
um just each of the climbs in descents with different gradients. So the first one, I think we climbed a thousand meters in about 7K, was that first climb off the flat. And that one I settled in well, um and the i was I think I was in like 72nd overall and 12th female at the bottom of that climb. And by the top, I was in 9th female.
00:34:50
Speaker
And this is where my day started to become a bit interesting. Because normally, being nine female at the top, I was like, like I knew I'd passed a few people. So I knew I was there or thereabouts in the frontier end of the field. And I was like, sweet, we're hitting the downhill. Let's try and catch a few more people. Started trying to do that. And within this downhill, I think went for about eight Ks. And within four Ks, I was in trouble um purely because i the shoes I was wearing, I was wearing the Genesis.
00:35:19
Speaker
And they were soaking wet from A, a ri couple of river crossings and B, the amount of ice that I had melting all over me. And then also, the because my feet were wet and the gradient was like 20% for most of it, but then at times it would flatten out a bit. But every time it was steep, it was like that dirt path kind of steep. And I found that because the Genesis had so much grip, my shoe would grip and my foot would continue sliding in the shoe, no matter how much I stopped to tighten it that many times. And it felt like no matter how much I tightened it, the bottom of my foot was just getting rubbed raw. And I'd never had that before. Like it was a really weird feeling. It was also a feeling that kind of didn't freak me out, but it definitely worried me because it was something I'd never had before. And I was like,
00:36:08
Speaker
15, 16 Ks into the whole thing. um And I didn't, so like because it was an unknown problem, I'm like, is this gonna get worse? Is it gonna get better? Do I need to worry? Like just, it had me pretty much walking down that second half of the descent. Like I was felt like I was moving really slow um and just taking the smaller steps, trying to move sideways to stop my feet sliding and my toes bashing the end. And it was mainly the bottom of my feet I was worried about though. um And I've run in wet shoes before.
00:36:38
Speaker
I've just never run in wet shoes on such steep gradients for so long. Um, and that seemed to be the main problem was just the downhill gradient. Thankfully at the bottom of that was the first, um, aid station where I got to see mum and dad and ah by the bottom I was back in 12th. So I'd been repassed by three people already. Um, and which was fine. I wasn't stressed at that point at all. I changed shoes, um, already straight away and got more ice and all those sorts of things like my aid stations would
00:37:08
Speaker
fine and really good. um I was getting in the amount of nutrition I thought I was going to manage, which was one about 40 grams an hour um up till this point. And then the um next section was much more runnable, so I don't think it would have mattered what shoes I was wearing, and it felt fine. And then I think I ran my way back into, I don't even know, top 10 maybe. um And then the entire next climb was also fine. ah but And I've made a friend, thankfully, kant a Canadian, Madeleine Hawkins. We found each other many, many times on the course and seemed to
00:37:45
Speaker
She'd drop me on the downhills and I'd catch her on the uphills, which was really disconcerting for me. Um, because that's the opposite of the way I normally operate in races. But anyways, it was the second downhill we hit at 44 ish K and it takes us down to 55 K. So it's like 11 K average gradient is only 10%. And it was on a road pretty much like a, not a asphalt road, but like one of those white flag, you would have seen them heaps like a concrete road, almost like lumpy concrete. Um, yeah.
00:38:19
Speaker
Yeah, they're not fun to run on, to be fair, but at the same time, it was just a 10% gradient you should be flying down. And within a K, again, my feet were in all sorts, even in the new pair of shoes.
00:38:31
Speaker
um And then I ended up running like 8Ks of downhill where I would just run sideways one way for 200 meters and then switch to running sideways the other way for 200 meters and did that for 8K straight. So I think 10K descent at minus 10% on a road took me like an hour 20 or more.
00:38:56
Speaker
And it was painful. Like, honest, that was the one time of this entire race where I was just going, I don't know if I can do this. Like, I'm like 50 k's in. What is going on? How do I get to the finish line? And because I was running so funky, my adductors were cramping. Like, my foot had started cramping from how much I'd tightened my shoes to try and stop the slip. And everything on that descent felt like it was falling apart.
00:39:21
Speaker
And that was my sort of low moment. And just how, long also this was the hot part of the day. So we were running into the heat of the day in the sun and going lower into the valley. So that was the only time of the day I also got hot. So there was about, yeah, a good hour and 15 minutes to an hour 20 of absolute hell there in the middle of this race, um where if someone had to given me an out at the bottom, I would have taken it. Like I would have a hundred percent gone, okay, if I don't have to go on, I'm good.
00:39:51
Speaker
But I spent I think like 12 minutes at the aid station at the bottom. um I actually changed shoes again. This time changed socks and I put a bunch of talcum powder on my feet um in an attempt to dry them out. And this second shoe change, I went into the, Brody you would know them, the Francois Dane ones, the blue slab SLAB Ultra. Yeah. Yeah. That one. So in an annoying ah twist, I had last minute decided the one pair of shoes that I think would have actually worked the best for me, which was the Ultra 3's V2 that I had, I left in my comm and I didn't have with mum and dad. And that's the one pair of shoes I think would have been the best, but the SLAB Ultra. Why do you think that one would have been better?
00:40:37
Speaker
ah Because they they drop water so easily. yeah okay And I'm so much lower to the ground. And I just, I've never, ah no matter how wet my feet get, I've never had a problem in those shoes. But I'd never run in any of these other pairs of shoes with wet feet. yeah can So it was just poor decision making by me for not realizing wet feet equals wear the mesh shoes. um So Yeah, but I got into those and that was a lot better. But at the bottom of that um descent, after that 10 to 12 minute break, changing shoes and everything, I was back in 11th. But that was where like there's a video of me just asking Dad, where the hell am I in my age group? I don't care about overall anymore.
00:41:17
Speaker
um because even just top 10 in my age group gets me there and he's like your fifth. And so I'm like, okay, I've got hours, like I can walk, I'll be good. um and But ah with the new shoes, the talcum powder and everything, and also because I've been going so slow on the descent, I'm rationally had this thing of going, if you're going this slow, you need to try to eat more.
00:41:39
Speaker
So I think that actually came to fruition in the next section, because I was about five and a half minutes behind 10th leaving that aid station. And it only took me four and a half K's to catch her. um And five K's maybe. um And I was surprised. I was like, I looked down and I'm like, oh, it's only been five K's. And Dad told me I was five and a half minutes. So I must be moving pretty well. And I think I did because I caught all the way up to ninth um before the next aid station, which is the last one I could see Mum and Dad at.
00:42:09
Speaker
Um, and that one I didn't stay long ah this time and I managed to just get out because it's the bottom of the last climb. So you're at 66 K's and it wasn't dark yet. And this is where I was like, okay, I've already been running racing. Sorry, I've run longer, but I've already been racing longer than I ever have. And I'm about to do another thousand meter, um, 8K climb.
00:42:31
Speaker
at 66Ks of this thing. ah it still It was still pretty, well, it was hot the whole day. um But yeah, the conditions were pretty brutal. But I um i got used to using poles. This was my first race ever using poles. I actually don't have many hours using poles at all, because I have a dodgy shoulder. um And I used poles at times earlier in the climbs, but I hadn't used them for a whole climb yet, purely because I didn't know how long my shoulder would last.
00:42:57
Speaker
which was another point of worry for me. um Turns out it lasted until a couple of Ks before this last climb ended, um which is fine. But I did most of that climb. So the woman in ninth was Madeline and she left maybe two, three minutes before
Final Stretch & Exhaustion
00:43:13
Speaker
me. So it took me a few Ks um of the climb to catch her. And once I did, turns out perfect timing. I caught her right when we needed to put the headlamps on.
00:43:22
Speaker
um so we could get each other's headlamps out, which that was a new experience for me too, all the new things. um And then at the second last aid station, uncrewed one, I was in and out really quick and Madeline stopped for a bit. So I got ahead of her there and was in ninth, to my knowledge, I was in ninth. I didn't know that I was technically actually an eighth at this point, but um Yeah, I thought I was in ninth took off. We had a really long road section. That was the course change. I don't know if either of you watched any of the live stream, but there was a really long road, like just main road kind of thing, which was odd. But running it at night was in Thailand is also a bit sketchy because you just.
00:44:02
Speaker
Cars don't like giving you much space. Um, but that's okay um then Yeah, but essentially to finish off the yeah last aid station me and again Madeleine went in together and we're in 9th and 10th So I knew I was sort of skirting the line, um but also i I knew that like i I just wanted to get it done. Like I was where I needed to be. I wasn't where I wanted to be if everything was going to go perfect, but I was where I needed to be. And so I was quite calm, but also going, I mean, I'm in like ninth and 10th, like this isn't the comfortable spot to be necessarily.
00:44:39
Speaker
um knowing that it hadn't been too hard to catch the woman that I knew was behind us when I did catch her earlier in the day. So that gave me some confidence. and But exiting the last aid station, I knew, so I reckon the most but brutal part of this entire course is the fact that with an 83 case, you hit a downhill VK.
00:45:02
Speaker
um on like sketchy ass, sketchy ass, rocky, dirt, slippery terrain. like And so I'm doing that downhill VK. I think I was about 12 and a half, 13 hours deep into my run and on ah with a headlamp. um And I passed, I think, three people that had gone down. And every single one I passed, I just stopped and walked for a bit because I was like, I do not want to be one of them.
00:45:29
Speaker
I am so close to the end of this. Yes, I'm in 10th because Madeline had dropped me at the top of that descent and I knew I wasn't going to catch her. um I was not descending fast still because my feet were shot. But I knew as soon as we got to the bottom, we had four and a half Ks left. I didn't even mind if I got past at that point, thankfully, because I knew I had legs left for running on the flat.
00:45:50
Speaker
um And then we hit the, finally I got down that, and it was one of those ones where you pinball from tree to tree as well, which was a bit of fun, but with a head torch is a different experience. um Make sure you don't miss the trees is what I learned. But yeah, got to the bottom, got to the flat part. And that was where I was like, I hadn't been passed yet. And I was like, I can breathe. Like I can enjoy this run into the finish line. um And that was where,
00:46:18
Speaker
And maybe with 2Ks to go is where we drop onto the where we come out onto the road and the trail ends. And and ah this is the so me in that I looked up and I'd saw the end of the trail and I was maybe 50 metres before the end of the entire trail of this race because we had 2Ks of road left. And as soon as I looked up and saw the road, that is the only spot I hit the deck.
00:46:38
Speaker
And it was perfectly flat and I hit it hard. And I was like, of course, like the one rock on this flat section of trail, I had just navigated 5,000 meters up and down. I was like 90 k's deep and I fell. And I was like,
00:46:57
Speaker
Perfect. Yeah, that's exactly what we're after. So I still got to run across the line covered in dirt. Even though i had I was clean until that point. And then running, actually the descent, the one pretty awesome thing about it was that as you're descending, you can see all the lights of Chiang Mai beneath you. um And that was, there was two magical points on this run and that was one of them. um The other one was earlier in the day, we got to run through a temple, even though off the back of that temple was two Ks worth, or K and a half at least worth of stairs to get down. But yeah, we, I hit the road, got across, got to the finish, near the finish, sorry. um And then you run like this main road into the park area called Power Park in Chiang Mai. And this is the only place where I think the race
00:47:44
Speaker
wasn't great in the organization, um purely because you were we ran in where there was this massive flower festival going on at the same time. So all these people that don't give a damn about the fact that you're racing, they're there for another reason.
00:47:57
Speaker
And it was packed and it was late. And obviously there's what like one or two runners coming into the time. It's not as if there's packs of runners. So as I run in, there's marshals to start with and it's roped off. But then with maybe 400 metres to go, I'm running in this one person wide roped off section of road. And there's people, there's like a pack of people ahead of me that have ducked under the rope to look at the flowers.
00:48:19
Speaker
And there is absolutely nowhere where to go other than to scream at them, which is what I did. And I scared a whole bunch of people and I felt mildly bad, but also they ducked under the rope. So it's all bad. And then with 200 to go, the ropes end.
00:48:34
Speaker
And we like turn a corner to face the finish line and you just got to run around this section. But it's like two massive roundabouts to run around. And it's just a melee of people. it was It was as if it was just a packed crowd. And I've got bloody 200 meters to go in this. And I'm 13 hours, 50 something in deep. And I'm trying to run real fast to the finish line. And there's just all these people in the way. And I start yelling. I take out a kid. I'm sorry, little kid, but you got in my way.
00:49:03
Speaker
But it was a bit of mayhem. But essentially, we got there and I hadn't looked at my time all day. I didn't want to know purely because I felt like I was moving so slow. And if someone had to told me I was running in to try and break 15 hours, I would have believed them. 100% would have believed them.
00:49:21
Speaker
um But then, because my goal at the start was to run 13 hours. So to run like, I ran 13.55. So to be only an hour off, and to tick the goal off, I came ninth in the end because one of the top women had to drop out unfortunately, late. And Yeah, like for a first hundred, I feel like I got the experience of having to navigate some stuff going wrong, but I ticked off probably everything I could possibly ask for and I'm pretty freaking stoked. And that was a lot. And you got your spot for you got your spot for CCC next year. Yes, exactly. Which was the end. I was doing this not to have a crack at an all out awesome 100K and show what I can do in 100K or anything like that. I'm never going to do that at the end of a season in November when I haven't targeted it per properly. And it's your first 100K.
00:50:13
Speaker
and it's my first 100. So I wasn't expecting that of myself. I think you did amazing. I think it's ah it's a great result. Probably like what's more impressive is the fact that you remembered like every single detail of the race. like I've done some 100K races and you know if I had to recap those races, my recap would be um yeah pretty much started, ran a little bit and made it till the end.
00:50:36
Speaker
like i don I don't know how you did it. This recap was was pretty impressive. like I'm sitting there. How does she remember everything? like I remember nothing around my races, except the 100K races.
00:50:48
Speaker
i could I could remember a lot more. and I think it's more because I wanted to experience it. like At no point, there is not a single point in the race where I thought I was going fast fast enough that I wasn't going to make the finish line. and there was just At every point, I was like checking in with my body, okay, what do I need to fix? what do i like I was just so present the whole time. and i never The one thing I'm very proud of is that like obviously, some things propped up, but you always expect that in a way. and Like I never panicked. I never rushed. I didn't rush a single thing. I spent a long time. I think we calculated in all in all that spent 50 minutes maybe to an hour in eight stations. um But the um the yeah, like
00:51:30
Speaker
that was my one of my things going in is going you only get the A you only get the first time once you want to remember it and like I was looking at the views I was actually listening to podcasts for eight hours of it um not even music I had podcasts going um there's actually a couple of photos of me running down a descent with my phone in my hand because I'm trying to change my podcast and then it got real steep all of a sudden and there was photographers there because you had to jump a tree so I'm jumping a tree with my phone in my hand But um yeah, it was like, that was one of my whole aims. I absolutely loved it out there, except that middle descent.
00:52:06
Speaker
That was about as hellish as running ever gets, trying to run sideways, down to a cent that you should be flowing down. um But the rest... And all the listeners, the full recap of the race will probably be an eight-hour podcast that will... Oh, 100% I could make... Release a podcast series. It'll be episodes itself. I could do that, 100%. But yeah, essentially it was it was a bloody good day. It was hard. I've never been so broken the next day. I actually had to get mum to come lift me out of the bed.
00:52:36
Speaker
When I woke up, we got to bed at midnight, woke up at 5 a.m. and needed to pee, tried to stand up and I couldn't. And I sat there and tried for long enough that I'm like, no, I'm actually going to wet myself and had to wake mum and dad up to come get me off the bed. Oh, man. That was embarrassing. Have you ran since the race?
00:52:55
Speaker
I have. Yeah. I ran on Friday for the first time. a Thursday was the first. So I flew home Tuesday, at arrived home Wednesday. Thursday was the first day I felt like running. And so I waited till Friday to actually run. um But then I ran just 6Ks Friday and then Saturday 4Ks.
00:53:16
Speaker
just jogging to and from Zadapec to the track to go watch it. But I did do, this is probably a little wild, I did do on Friday, as well as that 30 minute run, I did an hour 20 of water running with a friend. And then on Saturday, I did 90 minutes of water running with a friend. Please tell me that was socialization, not training.
00:53:40
Speaker
It was socialization. She was she was training. um And so I joined in for a few reps on moral support. But for more for moral support, water running is great because you can be going easy next to someone that's going hard. And you're actually yeah so yeah, it's probably good active recovery as well.
00:53:56
Speaker
Oh, it felt amazing. That was the reason that I was happy to stay in the water for so long doing it because I didn't feel i wasn't got moved i wasn't going hard, but it felt like it was really helping my legs. So highly recommend. um And then I was planning to run Sunday, but I actually just enjoyed doing a puzzle the entire day and eating pancakes.
00:54:14
Speaker
So yeah, 10Ks for the week, but I did run like an hour this morning, feeling fine overall, thankfully. So I don't know how recovery is meant to go, but it feels like it's going okay. I'm being a lot smarter than after Old Ghost, because within seven days of Old Ghost, I was running 22Ks, which was done.
00:54:33
Speaker
Um, good to have the rest. Yes. And I'm actually looking forward to the fact that now I get a proper break. I won't do any sort of actual training for the rest of December, obviously. Um, and then I get to go into a speed block. So, um, but yeah, that's that we can cover in different times. I hear that there's some questions for me. yeah i got some questions but firstly what did What do you think my biggest takeaway from your race is? Uh, your biggest takeaway. I only heard it this, this evening. So.
00:55:01
Speaker
You only had, okay. ah Oh, damn. um Is it anything to do with shoes? No, so you took out a kid at the end of a 100K race. Man, you could have probably waited. That's just so you though, you're like, I'm not losing a bloody second in this race. That kid is in my way. It was absolutely nothing to do with time and everything to do with that I had lost the ability to maneuver. To control yourself. I could run in a straight line, but the maneuvering was actually quite hard. And to be fair, I didn't fully, fully take out this kid. I clipped him, but I got him.
00:55:38
Speaker
I really wish that that was caught on camera because that would be fantastic. Kids move freaking quickly. Dartled into my path real quick from behind other people. like When I say this was a packed crowd you were running through, it was hard to get through people. It doesn't matter. Kids recover quick. It's better to knock over a kid than an old person. yeah I was still in worse shape than the kid for sure, so it's fine.
00:56:02
Speaker
All right, let's get into these questions, okay.
Heat Management Strategies in Chiang Mai
00:56:05
Speaker
All right, so let's start with, um ah do you think the heat training helped?
00:56:15
Speaker
100%. Yeah. um So the heat training in the end that I did, I did a few early heat training things, but the one thing that I've always discussed with my sports doc and I've liked the approach of is you don't need it too early. I really like the 10 days in 10 to 12 days in the lead into when you go into a hot environment.
00:56:33
Speaker
ah just daily exposure for anywhere from 30 to 60 minutes um and that's what I did so in the last week before I left yeah I did three runs in the heat on a treadmill and every other day I did sauna except one of the days was actually really hot and humid and I just did a run outside um so that like as I said, like my cooling strategy because I was replenishing all the ice that I said I had at the start line. I was replenishing every single aid station I had my parents at. So I was carrying a lot of ice around the course. But even when I ran out of that and in the days leading up, I didn't feel that hot. I felt like... So what did you do? You just finished your run and sat in the sauna for like half an hour?
00:57:15
Speaker
Yeah, so the days I did sauna, it would be after an activity, often it was actually elliptical, but it would be after an elliptical or after a run, I would go sit in the sauna for half an hour. um The days that I managed to could just run in the middle of the day, and it was high 20s, early 30s, I was happy to just call that heat training. And then the ones in the treadmill heat room, that got real hot and real humid because they put humidifiers in as well.
00:57:43
Speaker
um And that was two runs for 45 minutes and one run for 60 minutes. Only that last 10 days. Yeah, I know that like getting into the sauna straight after training is actually like pretty beneficial and a good way of like heat training. um Yeah, the soa i' the sauna alone isn't going to give you the same benefits. You want your core temperature already raised and your heart rate already raised. And it is the first couple of times I highly recommend only doing it for five to 10 minutes. It is a bit of hell because you're in that state post a run or an exercise where you you just feel like cooling down.
00:58:18
Speaker
but you're sort of forcing yourself to get just way hotter. Because the saunas that I'm using as normal saunas are, they're like 70, 80 degrees or so. um And then you can make it humid, but which I tried to do. But yeah, they you can last longer as you go. And that's how all you also know it's working. um But yeah, you want to do it after activity. How long were you doing in the sauna after? 30 minutes. so So you were sitting down the bottom, you were obviously weren't sitting over the top.
00:58:46
Speaker
ah Depending on how hot the sauna felt. Yeah, I was going to say because 70 is not that hot. 70 is not. If it was, I think most of the time the thing was saying 80 to 85. There was once I was in there and it said closer to 90 and there was someone in there constantly pouring water on the rocks. So that time I was like, okay, we just got to survive um and down the bottom here. Most of the times I am actually up the top though.
00:59:11
Speaker
where Where do you go to the sauna? I have access to one um in Eureka Tower. um yeah co but We should actually ask Jess how her tent sauna is going. ah She got one of those tents saunas, didn't she?
00:59:24
Speaker
Yeah, she did and the ice bath and everything. yeah like She got that out of AliExpress where I got my altitude tent. I think I saw the ad for the heat sauna thing on Instagram that Jess has. Pretty much. but ah But no, it's like it's just a normal proper sauna.
00:59:42
Speaker
um Yeah, cool. Okay. Well, all right. Next question. um Thank you. That came from Jacob Blackney. Thanks, Jacob. Farmer Casley. You talked a little bit about your ice. How did you manage the heat while we're on heat? like what did What sort of strategies were you using for that?
01:00:00
Speaker
Yeah, so many here. um I think anything any way you can keep yourself cool is good. um So I didn't get to the start line too early. I was trying to do pre-cooling, essentially. um So I did not get to the start line very early, so I could stay an air con for as long as possible. And then, as I said, like yeah I had white arm sleeves on that I then packed down with ice. I had a ziplock, frozen ziplock bag of ice in my vest against my back. And then I had three other bags of ice, one on each side of my bra, like up sort of above the bra kind of thing, but just on my chest and one on the back of my neck. Now, I had those in ziplock bags so that as soon as any ice melted, I then had cold water to pour over my head.
01:00:46
Speaker
So as the ice melted, I could pour the water over my head, wet myself or down my arms and then just take the bag to the next aid station. But the one in my back would just naturally melt, which was good. But then also probably about half the water that I ended up carrying with me and picking up at aid stations ended up being poured over my head or to wet my arm sleeves because the arm sleeves are amazing as long as they're wet.
01:01:10
Speaker
They are only going to warm you up if they're dry, I found, or I feel at least. And then where as soon as they're wet, I feel good in them again. um So I essentially spent 14 hours absolutely drainage from head to toe. And that part was a bit of hell. I just wanted to be dry at the end.
01:01:27
Speaker
ah But it worked amazingly. And so every, also every single bottle I filled up was ice cold water. um And any aid station where my parents weren't at, they just had like tubs of ice that I think you're meant to pour in your drink, but I was like pouring it in my back and down my chest and stuff. Like I was just putting ice everywhere I could at every point.
01:01:49
Speaker
And consistently, I've put videos up on Instagram of their water dunk. Mum was dunking me in water at the every aid station as well. And I was doing that to myself at every other aid station. And that was very cold ice water. Like I think it was about for 30, 40K. I actually was freezing after one of the aid stations. So it was working. I was like that at GBT. I had like um brain freeze going out of one of the aids. Yeah.
01:02:16
Speaker
Literally. And then I wore a hat only for a tiny bit. I hate hats. I'm not a hat person. um And that I found actually quite horrible, but it was good for the sun. But then I had to keep that wet as well. So, yeah. And Brody, I do know what you were trying to say. at gb I was about to say, so what you're saying is that you're using water as free sweat. Yes, I agree. So yeah I do agree. I don't know where I heard that, but I'm going to coin it as my thing.
01:02:43
Speaker
No, it's good because sweat's not actually free. Sweat takes your body energy to produce. And if you can keep your body your skin wet, your body doesn't need to spend energy sweating. So it water is free. Yeah. And if you can keep that fluid within your body, you can use it for sweat later on. Exactly. Because I didn't actually end up drinking that much at all. I think I only drank 500 mil an hour um purely because I wasn't sweating that much because I was keeping myself so wet and cold. I was trying to at least. But yeah, that worked.
01:03:12
Speaker
Nice. Perfect. ah I think we lost Vlad for a moment. Hopefully he comes back. um But next question on sweat.
Estimating Sweat Loss
01:03:21
Speaker
Do you know, I'm assuming it's a pretty complicated ah equation given all the ins and outs, but do you know how many liters of sweat you may have lost?
01:03:32
Speaker
um Yeah, that's almost like if my heat management worked well, which I did as soon as I dried out on that descent in that I was talking about where it did get hot, I dried out and then I got drenched again by sweat. So it didn't take long to sweat in these conditions. I do know that I sweat like in the conditions we were in, I would normally sweat maybe 1.3 to 1.5 liters an hour.
01:04:02
Speaker
um Which is a lot, I think. I don't actually know. But um that's my norm. I would guess, considering I only took in maybe eight leaders.
01:04:15
Speaker
I'm fluid and I didn't feel dehydrated at the end and I was still peeing at 12 hours out of 14. I wouldn't have sweated overall that much, but that's thanks to the cooling strategy. But you didn't didn't weigh yourself at the end, I guess, so you don't really know. ah There's no point because I had no idea how much I'd drunk. like yeah absolutely no I didn't know how much I'd peed. Next time, can you do the science for us so we know? There's absolutely no science unless you measure everything I was taking in.
01:04:42
Speaker
Even like down to the the maple syrup and the stuff I was drinking. like it would Yeah, it would be a complicated spreadsheet, but it's possible. Sorry, Callum, we couldn't answer that question. I tried. I tried.
01:04:55
Speaker
All right, one more. um ah Todd Haskell New Zealand wants to know what your strength training look like, I guess generally, but maybe specifically for this race, did you change anything? um So for this race, I got very specific just in training essentially by doing lots of like uphills and downhills is with high mileage. ah But for my strength approach to this one, I actually haven't set foot in a gym since just before the Golden Trail Final over in Italy, ah Switzerland. um Like ah when I'm overseas and in the shorter race blocks, it is hard to get into a gym, but I would try once or twice a week. um in Especially in that last block there, I was managing that.
01:05:41
Speaker
And in that case, it's very, like I lift heavy, but then I also do some plyometrics and those sorts of things. um All of, like I am a strength and conditioning coach myself, but um I get guided by Locky Bromley from Flowstate Strength. um And he essentially agreed with me that um I was guiding a lot of myself when I was overseas in terms of how often, and I supplement the fact I couldn't get to the gym with Pilates.
01:06:10
Speaker
um I used the Pilates for Runners app. of Then I did, yes, I do maybe two Pilates sessions a week. But to be honest, as soon as I got home from Europe and I was doing really high mileage and I knew I would be racing a lot, there comes a point where you don't actually want to add any more and you have enough of a base. So I was doing zero strength other than mobility, lots of foam rolling, lots of massage.
01:06:36
Speaker
and the occasional pre-run Pilates for the last, what, since the end of October. So what's that, for the month of November? So just for the four weeks. And also also all the bicep curls with all the ice, right? Yeah, for sure. Actually, my upper body after the race, I should have been doing bloody bicep curls because of my back and my biceps. And because I've got a dodgy shoulder that got bad, my biceps, I couldn't lift a thing the day after. Oh my gosh. Because I've been using my biceps on the poles. like I've been using them all wrong. But I needed some upper body strength to tell you what.
01:07:12
Speaker
But that's the thing I'm looking forward to most to going back to is the is the gym. But I periodise the gym like you periodise your racing and in a racing block where there's a lot of energy going everywhere. And because I was struggling with nutrition as well and I knew I had limited resources like I i didn't do any gym at all. But I knew you get hella strong doing these sorts of trails with ups and
Trail Runners vs Road Runners: Strength Study
01:07:35
Speaker
downs. There's actually a really cool research study that shows that trail runners that have never set foot in a gym but do a lot of vert are stronger than road runners that set foot in a gym three times a week. There's one study at least that is a proper study but um it was an interesting finding for that um because on raw strength the trail runners were stronger. I think there's like an X amount of energy that you can use every week and you just got to know where to use it and you know if you're running long hours on the trails
01:08:04
Speaker
You might not get the benefit of doing any strength sessions in the gym and rather get more benefit out of like getting more rest and recovery. 100%. By the time I'm doing back to back runs, and I had that 200k week in there, and then the GPT race that I didn't want to be too fatigued for and stuff, like, was just one thing I took out to not yeah have to think about it. But I have the luxury of doing that because I was a gym junkie long before I was a runner, and I've been a PT a lot longer than I was a runner. And I have a very long history of gym time and strength and lifting heavy. ah So I think that holds you in good stead.
01:08:37
Speaker
Once you've got that consistency to be able to take time off and it actually can be beneficial depending on what else you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. And it makes sense to periodize strengths as well as the same as it makes sense to periodize training as well. So like it's.
01:08:50
Speaker
a good approach, especially if you have the background that you have, like you're saying. yeah I think strength is also dependent, especially if you're lifting weights. It really depends on like what you're doing with your training, maybe your weaknesses. and like it It's not like one thing that fits all runners. like It's something that I've actually been talking about with some of the runners in our group.
01:09:09
Speaker
Um, you know, you don't always have to live super heavy. Um, yeah if you are increasing volume, maybe it's a good time to do some strength, but without any wait for a couple of weeks till your body kind of gets used to like this new volume. So there's a couple of variables to kind of remember when you are doing strength training, because obviously we are runners. Um, if you were a bodybuilder, you'd be doing, you know, probably thinking about it differently. But the main goal is to be able to run well and and not lose your form. um So yeah, I think that's strength. Just have to be smart about why you do how much you do and when you do it to make sure that it helps your running and not kind of actually holds you back.
01:09:49
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. Definitely. Cool. Awesome. All right. Thanks for that, Sim. It was good and some good questions. Thanks for listeners for writing those in. It was interesting to chat about those things as well. I think we're going to head to some results for the week. Sorry for happening on for so long. No, no, it was good. It was really good. That was quick. I enjoyed it. Yeah. Well, stay tuned for the eight-part miniseries. Any more questions, I'll happily answer.
01:10:18
Speaker
That can be a bonus episode. But yes, results. Let's go to results. All right. I think, Vlad, you're going to take us to the six-inch trail marathon. If you've got it up, what do you want us to
Six-Inch Trail Marathon Results
01:10:28
Speaker
do? Yeah, no, it's pretty much like one of the oldest trail races in Perth when I started running. There was only two trail races in Perth. That was one of them. Pretty cool event. Been going on for a long time, always in December, always like second week of December.
01:10:42
Speaker
um Yeah, early start to that one. This, yeah, not an easy race. I remember getting like two buses to get to the start line a few years ago. um But yeah, definitely a great event. um In the men's, Jerry Hill won, followed by Michael Correll and Andrew Walker. And in the females, Patra Gergen, followed by Catherine Stockwell. And in third place, Ayoko Sakoi.
01:11:12
Speaker
um Yeah, it's definitely a race that I've been trying to push the the race organizer Dave to do um in a nicer time of the year, like in winter. um But yeah, always been a summer race and kind of end of the year race. Yeah, I've wanted to do but being second week of December, um so it's always a bit hard.
Adelaide Trail Runners Summer Series
01:11:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
01:11:37
Speaker
Definitely. Nice. I'm going to take us to Adelaide Trail Runners Summer Series. um I'm trying to find out how far this course was. This was the second. Do you know how long it was, Sim? This is the second.
01:11:52
Speaker
ah ah the So the long course was, um I've got the Strava's open. The long course was 15.8. Interestingly, the short course was 13.8. So it was only 2K different. I'm sorry, the medium course. And then the short course was 7.5.
01:12:08
Speaker
Okay, cool. All right. Well, we'll cover, I'll go give us the long course results. So a name that's become pretty familiar to the podcast. So that I don't know if he's running both the series at the moment maybe, um but John Songai was first in one hour 1432. Scott Cameron was second in one hour 1631. And Andrew Heitman was one hour 1717.
01:12:35
Speaker
um And then in the women, we had Margo McIntosh in 1st, in 124.44, Danny Vanderhul in 1 hour 31.29 and Yuko Sato in 1 hour 43.05. That was a long course and don't know where the medium course has disappeared to. Do you want to cover, should I cover that?
01:12:59
Speaker
Where is it? You can chuck it in. You got it. Disappeared from me. It's only 2K less, so I feel like we should call them out. ah So in the men, first place was Sam Loy in 1A 1228. Second was Milan Timang in 1A 1305. And third was Cameron Sparks in 1A 1407.
01:13:22
Speaker
um And then, yes, it was close. And um some younger runners, I think in the long course, although the top three in the men were all over 40, and I think all the women were over 30, and those ones were all in their 20s. So maybe the split by, well, not in the medium course in the females though. The first place was Lisa Davies, who was in the 45 to 49 category and won our 31-16, very speedy time.
01:13:49
Speaker
um Second was Manon Perichu in 132.55 and third was Kate Staniford in 135.09. Lots of people, ah top ten top nine were all between 131 and 141, so a bit of depth. Looks like they've got a fair few people going along, which is cool.
01:14:13
Speaker
Yeah, nice. That is very cool. Always good to
The Last Legend Race Overview
01:14:16
Speaker
see. And I'm going to take us to Vic for a very interesting event. I've had to do some research into this one just to see what on earth is going on here, as it's called The Last Legend. And it was run in Woodlands Park, Melbourne's northwest.
01:14:31
Speaker
um I think on the grounds of like the ah a home for like retired racing horses or like former racehorse champions it says but um this is a fundraiser for Canteen um Cancer Foundation for young people living with cancer but then it was like you meant to dress up in Christmas because it was a festival festive one but The concept, you run a 2.5k loop. So think sort of like a backyard ultra in the way that it's a looped thing and you have a certain amount of time to run each loop, but it's at only a 2.5k loop and the amount of time you have to run it decreases every loop, or at least as far as I can see, maybe every second loop. ah So you start out with 30 minutes in order to do the 2.5k and that
01:15:21
Speaker
you then have to wait before you go again um at the 30 minute mark. And then for laps three and four is actually a big jump because you go straight from 30 minutes to 25. But then from there, every two laps, the time you've got decreases by a minute. So slowly, not only have you gone longer, but you have to get faster to cover this two and a half K loop. Now the winner of this and it was Matt Christopoulos. I hope I got that right, Matt. And he ran 70Ks. In order to run 70Ks, so that was at nine hours, he had nine hours and 14 minutes elapsed time, um just based on the amount of time you were allowed for each lap and had to take.
01:16:08
Speaker
But by the last two laps, he had to run the two and a half Ks in 13 minutes was the time he got down to, which I think is about 512 per kilometer by my calculations that I looked up. um And this is on like a grassy field. I have no idea if there's any hills or not.
01:16:26
Speaker
um but it's in a grassy park on a trail. And yeah, it's a pretty cool concept. like ah part of this This is something that intrigues me, because I'm like, by the 90K mark, you have to run two and a half Ks in nine minutes. And it would be like- Yeah, look, I had it in my head that it was going to get faster a lot quicker when I read this out last week. And I was like, now the fact that I put the mass together now and it's like they actually ran 70K is pretty crazy. I'd like to see a variation where it speeds up quicker as well, because that'd be cool.
01:16:53
Speaker
Yeah, yep, so that you don't have to run so far. That's just because you don't think you'd last the 70k though, Brody. No, I just want to see someone finishing like at 40K running, having to run three minute K's for two and a half K. Cause that would be brutal. Fair actually. That would be pretty cool to watch. Although I also think running what's nine minutes for two and a half K like that's sub four minute K's at 90 K's would also be hella interesting if someone managed to get worse to me though. So a very cool race, interesting concept. And I will shout out the assist went to Ryan.
01:17:28
Speaker
Dargent who ran the 67.5K. And by the looks of it, there was like one person going out every lap for the last like five or six laps, which it's just brutal that they're getting timed out um every time. But yeah, that covers ah the results for the week. um Do we have any other news to discuss? Any the other things? I had one last result and a little
Greenvale Backout Ultra Insights
01:17:52
Speaker
question for you guys. Oh yeah, go for it.
01:17:54
Speaker
So this is the also one one more event that was on the weekend was the Greenvale Backout Ultra in Tasmania. It was the first version of of this one up in the northwest. um Ryan Crawford got the win in 38 yards, I think.
01:18:12
Speaker
I've heard Ryan's name before. I think he does back out Ultras a bit. um and say at The assist went to John Connell who's from Launceston where I grew up. um but that What I noticed with this one and what I've noticed with a few in the in the past is I had a $5,000 prize for the win. um and if you You may have seen a few months ago or months ago, roughly, Piotr Babus ran one in Victoria that had a $10,000 prize. um I think he ended up sharing that with another guy. I can't remember his name. Oh, that's the uphill one, right? That's the uphill one with a hill in it. Yeah. But yeah, this is some pretty significant prize money. um There's one in Sydney, too, with $10,000.
01:18:56
Speaker
Yeah, and um for me it poses a question and I think Simone's got a good answer for me, but why have Backout Ultras, not saying they're any less good than the trail running events, but compared to premier trail running events in Australia, they have way more prize money. um Sim, I think you have the answer or an answer. I don't know if it's the answer.
01:19:22
Speaker
I have an answer. One, like, well, they're only paying first. So if you do look at some other Aussie races, there is some that the prize pool actually equates to more, but they're not paying only one runner out of both genders, like they're paying. Well, to be fair, I think one of the races at least does 10,000 to male and female. But um as far like this is me thinking this is not me like saying that this is the way it's going to go down um or is in reality. So we can ah do some digging.
01:19:50
Speaker
But as far as I would think, it's a much smaller logistical um thing to put on ah for one aspect in terms of you're putting together a 6.7k loop that's the exact same loop the entire time.
01:20:04
Speaker
So logistically, the costs I would assume for in terms of everything, medical, marshals, road closures, all those sorts of things. like they there's I would think less costs to putting on a backyard ultra, especially some of the places that they seem to be putting these on.
01:20:22
Speaker
um like there would be less costs involved. But also, I think honestly, the main reason is just that there they're this thing that when you present to someone to a company or someone to sponsor it for a prize money, they're this thing that you go like ah not everyone can do necessarily. Like it's just it's almost the flavor of the month. It's brand new. It's this new concept. And it's really cool to look at and go, well, you're just paying the person who can go the furthest. You're giving them the carrot.
01:20:51
Speaker
to actually keep going in this event. So you're gonna get a better event in every single Backyard Ultra. You will get a better event if there's more prize money. People will want to go further and therefore it's good for the races to put on prize money because otherwise people do question at the end, well, why the hell am I keeping on going? There's no prize money, there's nothing to keep going for. And every Backyard Ultra wants people to go as far as possible. They want that lack. Where the top tier Backyard Ultra people went this far.
01:21:20
Speaker
But also, I just think it would be easier to get sponsored dollars because if you go to a sponsor and go, I think, um but if you go to a sponsor and go, well, here's this awesome but really, really high national level 20K trail race, people go, yeah, but I can run 20Ks on the trail. But if you go, well, here's a prize for you giving to someone who can go for 48, 56, 100 hours of running. They go, holy crap, how does a human do that? like I think that would play into it. but It's more marketable. Yeah, I think. Surely the general population thinks that's it even crazier than people just doing trail running, so they wouldn't pay it. Yeah, exactly.
01:22:00
Speaker
Yeah, true. But at the same time, it's got this it's got this draw to it that goes, people look into it. Exactly. People look into it and they go, how did someone keep moving for that long? The race itself knows they need that carrot at the end. Because if you've got no carrot at the end of a backyard ultra, people are pulling out earlier. No matter what, I think that's just human psychology. um But yeah, Vlad, your thoughts?
01:22:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's, um you know, going back to the sponsors thing, I think that their target is definitely kind of like sponsors that are not connected to sports, for example, like, you know, probably corporate sponsors, real estate, whatever. um I did get a sponsorship offer from Bix with that King of the Hill backyard ultra. And looking at it, just going like what they offer for how much they want. um I just felt like you shouldn't be ah approaching like companies that are in the space, you should actually try and approach businesses that are not in the space that might be kind of like blown away by somebody running nonstop for 40 hours. um So I think that, yeah, there is that kind of like, this is really cool for somebody that doesn't know the sport, or doesn't do running, but kind of go, Oh, that's pretty easy marketing, I can give them $5,000. And, and I'm going to get some good branding out of this crazy event that I can
01:23:19
Speaker
You know kind of show show off as part of our like sponsorship kind of deals that we do um So I think that that's definitely one I think the second one is um Yeah, the fact that like Simone said like it's probably a little bit cheaper to put those events on One aid station most runners just bring all this stuff from home So you don't even like you know when you do have some food and water out there is very very basic as most runners kind of come and ready, you know, with what they're going to use for for this race. So yeah, in a way, a pretty low cost event to put on. um And then also, also you can charge quite a lot for it, right? Because it's a long event.
01:24:03
Speaker
Yeah, it could be like a long event. So you need to find that price point that, you know, that's not a 10k, even though some people only do one or two laps, or three laps, like an obviously in Western Australia, we had 440 people in the last backyard ultra um here in Herties. And quite a few. yeah Yeah, being out there, you do see probably like 20 people drop out after like two laps and they paid I don't know what's the entry fee, but probably around $200 I would say. um So it does give you that opportunity to you know offer some prize money and a bigger prize money. In an interesting, um I'm just looking up the king of the hill and fun fact, next year the winner gets 25,000 and there's a $15,000 in bonus cash and prizes for spectators and support crews.
01:24:52
Speaker
um and other athletes. But if you look at who is putting this event on, it's they say Harris, something about the but the biggest fitness app, and Australia's number one fitness challenge hub, but the partners are people like Budgie Smugler Science in Sport, Modex, Funkeeta, LSKD, Funke Trunks, like big brands and lots of them. There's more, Modex. Like there's a lot of big partners going into this one. So they've done the marketing and the budget. Interesting. Yeah. it yeah i get that I get those points, but it just seems so interesting to me that the Backout Ultras are going after it with the sponsorship stuff, but the the events aren't maybe as much. I don't know. That's just the vibe I get, but maybe it's just... It's not as attractive. Because it's broken down, something like King of the Hill, like when they put at the top, all they're saying is we've got a hill and we're just challenging you to climb this one hill every hour on the hour. You get someone in a gym that go that can do the stair climber. They're not a runner. They're just a very fit person. And they go, oh, I can go try. Like they'll at least try. Like it breaks it down so much for someone that anyone off the street that thinks they're that a hardcore human that can suffer a lot
01:26:07
Speaker
will actually look at it, doesn't need to be a runner and goes, yeah, I can associate with that. It's just a lot of pain. like Yeah, I think a lot of the growth there is is obviously coming from um the David Goggins followers and you know kind of people that are a bit more kind of a hybrid athlete that you know actually I can suffer for 48 hours. And you know so I think that that kind of marketing that King of the Hill has done is it's paid off. I was looking at that sponsorship deck, they're kind of going, I'm not sure if this is worth it. But I'm sure some companies like big companies have a lot of money will go like, well, here's the next amount of money, I know I'm going to get some marketing value. And I mean, it's cool that they have that price of money kind of makes me think, oh, maybe I should go and give it a try. I was about to say 25,000. Sounds like it fits the deal for you, Vlad, I reckon.
01:26:56
Speaker
Yeah, but I feel like from senior this year, I think we talked about this event like a few months ago and they kind of announced it and they did ask me to come. I was like, I'm not sure that the course is actually like hard enough and the winning time this year was like longer than what I thought it would be. it It was like three days or something they were going for. I think they got to 70 something. Okay.
01:27:18
Speaker
So yeah, like it is obviously it is a bit different than than flat running, um but maybe it's not as challenging as... Well, it's not that amount of climb with 6.7k, I don't think. It's that a amount of climbing. It's 4.2. Exactly, exactly. So it's not like... It probably figures out to be about the same as another one. It's just maybe if you're a climber versus a flat runner, it suits you better.
01:27:42
Speaker
But still, it sounds like there is enough you know time to to get a bit of rest and then be able to go for a lot longer. where Yeah, like this has got me tempted for 25K. Damn. So you buzzed mine up when we you found that, Tim. Well, it's 25,000 Aussie, so it's only like 2,000 euros.
01:28:03
Speaker
that I operate in Aussies, it's fine. That is so fine. But yeah, it's it's a cool conversation. and it like It is cool to see, but I think part of it is just coming from they have access to a much bigger market that are never going to look at 100K trail race, even a 50K trail race and go, yeah, that sounds like fun. But they're going to look at the pain of doing something on the hour every hour and think they can do it.
01:28:26
Speaker
I don't think those are the people that are going to be successful. I think runners will remain like people that are ultra runners will remain the successful people
Backyard Ultras Popularity & Future
01:28:35
Speaker
yet. I will happily give you proven wrong on that front. um But yeah.
01:28:40
Speaker
I don't think like people come back like you know obviously the good the ones that do really well at those races come back and do a lot of those races and they become like almost like a specific backyard ultra runners like Phil Gore here in Perth is almost like a specific it does other races you do the 24-hour race a few weeks ago but like you know he's a bit more of like ah Backyard ultra specialist but i think overall most runners kind of do one or two or three of them maybe get to that twenty four hour mark or or whatever mark the kind of aiming for and they don't really come back and do more so i feel like this is gonna be cool for a couple of years but i don't think.
01:29:20
Speaker
It's going to go unless they try and make it cooler in some ways, but it feels almost like obstacle racing. You know, you do a couple of them and it's really cool. It's really big. And then it kind of fades away. Similar to like high ropes right now is like the talk of the thing right now. It's pretty much what obstacle racing was five years ago. and It's going to get, it's kind of like high. People running around with their tops off.
01:29:41
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And you know, how many can you do? Because yeah, it's a bit different. I think that obviously 100k races, trail races, marathons to an extent. They'll stick around. Yeah, they kind of like a bit different. For as long as they're putting up 25k, that's pretty cool. Yeah, but realistically, like how many people sign up to actually do the race to win that money? Well, it's currently sold out. You have to join the wait list to get in.
01:30:08
Speaker
Oh, so they only have 100 spots. I can see a Sim versus Vlad showdown. They only have 100 spots like last year, because last year they only had 100 spots, right? I don't know, but there's a wait list.
01:30:20
Speaker
Cause it definitely kind of like restricts their marketing value if they only have a hundred spots in many ways. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, like surely you'd have to apply and prove why you think you can go the farthest and stuff like Barkley style. Yeah. yeah Interesting. yeah I would like to do one in the future, but I don't know. I feel like I'm too young. I almost signed up for a backyard ultra like a few years ago. And then that was one of the biggest arguments I've ever had with Tim. yeah Yeah. It doesn't make sense to like, um, like old school runners, like, you know,
01:30:50
Speaker
um to go for it full on. Yeah, exactly. I'll do one one day. But anyway, some good Backyard Ultra chat to end our chat for this week. We've already been going for 90 minutes, so hopefully this gets you through your Christmas ah time long runs um or longer runs. Now, for what's coming up this week, there are actually no races. on the calendar as far as we can see. If anyone does know of a race, feel free to send it through. But um yeah, it's ah it's a bit of a break time because this weekend is just before Christmas. So we will still be coming to you next week, I think. um We have no plans not to. ah We're not very good at planning on the back end at this time of year though. so
01:31:33
Speaker
willll ah We'll get it to you though, something. um But Brody, what you got coming up this week? Just and many, many more hours on the bike. Yeah, just a bit more riding. I'm headed to Tassie next week and I think it might be a bit harder to ride, although I still want to try and do this Festive 500. So yeah, we'll see. But um yeah, just on the bike, working through the gym stuff. um Yeah. Fun. Vlad, what you got on? ah My daughter's Fourth birthday, so cute yeah a bit of training and yeah getting into that Christmas mode.
01:32:08
Speaker
Yeah, all the fun. i'm like and I like being a hermit in December. um But I will be continuing recovery and doctor's appointments to galore to try and figure out this stomach of mine. um But yeah, I'll get there eventually. We'll figure it out. And yeah, otherwise, thank you everyone so much for listening. If you've been enjoying the podcast, I will do a quick shout out to ask if anyone can rate and review on whatever you're listening on that would go a really long way to helping us.
01:32:38
Speaker
And yeah, keep the listener questions coming, any trail fails. We haven't done any in a while, but ah they they keep coming out in conversation anyway. And until next week, you have