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Episode 42: Meet Paige Penrose, Double vs Single Run Days, SingleTrack Trail Team
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Welcome to Episode 42 of Peak Pursuits, your ultimate podcast for everything trail running in Australia. This week’s episode is hosted by Sim Brick, Jess Jason, and guest host Paige Penrose! Listen in to hear about Paige’s unique start in trail running running and her time in NCAA, followed by updates from Sim and Jess, listener questions about double vs single run days and poles, and lastly some big news dropping from SingleTrack Events with the formation of a new Trail Team!
SingleTrack Announcement/Applications: https://singletrack.com.au/trail-team/
***Don’t forget, use code PPP at https://bix-hydration.myshopify.com/en-au for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits! Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and your own trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
Sim: @theflyingbrick_
Jess: @jessjason
Paige: @paigepenrose_
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/mood-maze/trendsetter
License code: K08PMQ3RATCE215R
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Transcript
Introduction and Hosts Introduction
00:00:07
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode 42 of the Peak Pursuits podcast. My name is Simone Brick hailing from Melbourne and I am joined by regular co-host Jess Jason in Canberra. How are we doing Jess?
00:00:22
Speaker
Hey guys, just struggling in the heat over here, but a bit dizzy from my track session in like 35 degree heat, but I'm hanging out. Ouch, ouch. I hope you've got some water next to you. That's not fun, but also up in your heat joining
Meet Paige Penrose
00:00:42
Speaker
us today. I am so excited for us to be joined by the one and only Paige Penrose, who has recently just joined Jess and it seems like at least a quarter of the trail running world in Canberra. So how are we doing, Paige, and welcome. and Thank you. um Yeah, I'm pretty good. My feet are definitely on the ground in Canberra. I don't know if my head is yet, but we're getting there. Yeah, of course. Because you've moved up from where where's home again? I'm in Stonewall Park, which is about half an hour, 40 minutes north of Wollongong.
00:01:13
Speaker
Yeah. I knew it was near Wollongong, but not quite in Wollongong. Lovely. All of your pictures of it always make me so jealous. Yeah. oh it's it's amazing It's an amazing place. It's definitely hard to leave.
00:01:26
Speaker
I can imagine. I can imagine. But there's this great big wide world to explore, and you have done a lot of exploring of it. So we're going to get to know Paige in this episode. And after that, we've got some listener questions, some trail running news. Me and Jess will give updates on where our training's at to start off the year. But Paige, Paige Penrose. I'm trying to remember where we first met because it feels like a very long time ago, but you were very young at the time.
00:01:56
Speaker
Yeah, I reckon it was UTA 11 in 2019. That was one of my first like proper trail race, I think. Yeah. Yes. I remember you were the young whippersnapper that came through and were looking good as gold on the finish line. And I was injured at that point, I believe. I was not running, definitely. 2019 was my first stress day. I was just there for the show. um And then we raced 2020.
00:02:25
Speaker
Warburton, it must have been that? Warburton in 2021, yeah. 2021? Oh geez, was it that long after? Covid really mixes with everything, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah you picked from another finish line for that one. Hey, that was a very fun race. Very, very fun sprint finish. It was, it was. I did feel bad about that one. You led the whole way.
00:02:46
Speaker
that downhill every time. It's all good. I got to use my strength somewhere. But no, that was a lot of fun. That's probably one of my favorite just little battles we had going there. It was good. It was very good. But take us back.
Paige's Running Journey Begins
00:03:02
Speaker
I want to hear about younger Paige, what sports Paige was into, and then also how you wet landed you at UTA 11 in 2019, if that was your first proper trail.
00:03:15
Speaker
Yeah, so I did not play any sport regularly or run growing up. I did bits and pieces of everything, a couple of years of gymnastics, jumped in basketball a couple of times, just, ah I think I did two seasons of soccer, like nothing really stuck. And especially once I got into high school and the stress ramped up, I just, I didn't have any regular activity that I did.
00:03:41
Speaker
um Now looking back on it, I like realized that in all of those team sports that I did play, I just ran most of the time, even though I despised running. Like in primary school, I literally came last in every cross country carnival that we had and would look for the opportunity to stop and help the person that had an asthma attack or something like that. Like I hated it. Um, and then when I was in high school, we didn't have to run cross country after year seven.
00:04:12
Speaker
You only did it if you were competitive and wanted to get through the next level. And then I got to year 12 and I was like, Oh, it's the last one. I might as well jump in it. And it wasn't, it was only like, I don't even know how far it was. It was a couple laps of the park at the back of our school. It was definitely not anywhere near six K's like most of them are at that age. Um, but they combined two age groups. So I was like counting the people in front of me.
00:04:39
Speaker
to make sure I didn't go through, but they'd mix two age groups. So I accidentally got through. um and And then after that, I went through like the next few levels and got through to state and I didn't run except for on the day of the actual race. And I mean, I was probably running like five minute Ks, but at that point it was enough to get through. So um yeah, made it through to state. I think I came ninth or something there. And um yeah, I was,
00:05:09
Speaker
Just happy to take it and I'd probably forgot about it and concentrated on finishing HSC. um And then I went straight into a gap year with the Air Force after I left school.
Transition to Trail Running
00:05:20
Speaker
um And that was sort of where I started to figure out that I could run. Yeah, okay. Because do you have to do much running as part of their training? um We do a bit in PT because to pass to pass recruits and then to like maintain your fitness every year, you have to run a 2.4K.
00:05:38
Speaker
run, so six laps of the track. Um, and there's different time cut offs for different ages and different genders, but essentially the fastest time you have to pass for a female is 13 minutes or something like that. And so in PT during training, they'd get us on the track doing a couple of sessions. I don't remember what they are, but that was where I learned the term Fartlek. Um, and just like as familiar with the track and teaching people how to run because some of them couldn't run 2.4 K's without walking.
00:06:06
Speaker
Um, and so I realized during those sessions that I could keep up with the guys who are quite a bit larger than me and thought, Oh, maybe I can do this. And then once we started getting weekends off, I'd go to park run and woggle. And, um, yeah, it kind of escalated after that. Nice. So what year was it that you were doing the air force? That was 2018. Okay. So and then it wasn't long.
00:06:31
Speaker
Yeah, at the end of that year, I moved home and found a coach and then in 2019, started jumping in races. um Who was that? Who was the coach that got you started? um It was a guy called Damon Bray who was part of a business called The Running Movement, which doesn't exist anymore, but they're sort of they were sort of based around South Long Shire area. Okay, nice. Yeah.
00:06:55
Speaker
and How did you like jump into it? Like how did you find trail running? I think that was sort of a natural progression because as a kid growing up, like there's plenty of amazing trails near where we live in Stonewall Park. We're just underneath the Royal National Park. So we used to go for a walk in the bush and then that inevitably turns into like jumping over rocks and things like that. And so I we i didn't know that that was what it was called, but that's sort of what we did.
00:07:20
Speaker
um And so I think it was just sort of straight away. Oh, there are running races. Cause I didn't realize they were running races outside of school. I felt that like there was, you could run in school. I didn't realize, like I didn't know what a marathon was. Like I was completely naive to it all. Um, so yeah, once the world, that world opened up and there were trail races, that was a natural, natural attraction.
00:07:43
Speaker
Nice. And you started off at a no, no small trail race. Just jumping in the deep end. Yeah, I did. I think I did the 5K at Husky Triathlon Festival and then I went and did Alpine Ascent that went from Charlotte's Pass up to Cozy. Did you talk about that one? I did the 12K. It doesn't actually go up to Cozy and it's just sort of like on a gravel path. Yeah. So then the next race up to Cozy. I did the 50K there, I think. Yeah.
00:08:09
Speaker
Yeah, okay. um it's good So then the next way I asked after that was UTA 11, which is quite different. and Just a little bit different. And I'm not sure at what point after this, your life took a major turn because you went from someone that didn't know a huge amount about running to going overseas to run.
00:08:33
Speaker
and ending up in America. um Talk me through where and how and the whys of that. I think like I've always been and still am very, I thrive off structure. We'll say that. um And so this was like a whole way, a whole thing to shape your life around. And for me, when I'm running, like people talk about, oh what do you think about when you run? And they talk about all the random things they think about and how all these like creative ideas and all that. And when I'm running, it's like the only time my brain is quiet.
00:09:07
Speaker
Yeah. And so, and I wish I found that when I was a teenager, it would have made those years so much easier. Um, but yeah, I just absolutely loved it. And you know, in that first year, 60 minutes was like the longest run ever. And I couldn't believe that you'd run for and like an hour straight. Um, yeah. And it just, yeah, I was hooked. We'll say that. yeah Um, but yeah, so I sort of started figuring out that there were all these different races and You know, you do well in one race and you get people talking to you because, you know, I was 19 when I did UTA 11, but I probably looked like I was, I don't know, 13. Because I have been have a baby face. it's It's got its moments when it's a good thing sometimes, but it's hard to be taken seriously a lot of the time. I can imagine.
00:09:57
Speaker
Yeah, so I look young and I'm doing well at this race. There were some pretty competitive runners in that 11K that I did. I think Beth Cadelli was in that and Joe Nevin, I think as well, who were big names at the time. And, you know, people start asking questions and they say, have you haven you thought about this? Have you thought about that? And so all of a sudden I've got all this information coming at me. And yeah, over the next few years, um I went to a fair few of the major races and around Australia and New Zealand and, um,
00:10:25
Speaker
eventually somewhere learned about
NCAA Experience
00:10:27
Speaker
the NCAA. And while I was doing all these races, I was having a really hard time doing full time study at the same time when your teachers don't really care about a sport. And, you know, there's no correlation between sport and university unless you're in football or something or one of the yes pathway sports that we have.
00:10:44
Speaker
um But yeah, so I learned about the NCAA and I was at that point, I was being coached um by Katie from Run Crew, who's American. um So she'd been through that system. And so, yeah, we decided to ah jump in a few track races so that the coaches over there had some idea of who I was because trail results don't mean a whole lot.
00:11:06
Speaker
um Yeah, once the borders opened after COVID, I just started cold emailing people. A couple of them were interested, so we went over to visit um a couple of them. um Yeah, and that's how I ended up in Reno, Nevada. I was going to say, you which wit it was Reno you ended up in. Yeah.
00:11:25
Speaker
yeah Nice. Random place. I didn't know where it was until I started looking at a map when you ended up there going, where the hell is she? Fun. So what was that transition like then? ah Yeah, it was pretty rough. um in I mean, it was good in that you're landing in a program. You're not just going over there and having to find a whole network of people. So you land in a running team. So there's you've got some people to ask questions of and drive you to the supermarket and things like that. Um, but yeah, it's, it's a Western culture, but it's still very different to Australia. They're just super intense. And I was moving from the coast of Australia where it's, it's quite rainforesty, to be honest, like the, the bush there and bigger scarlements. And I was landing in the desert at 1500 meters of elevation and it was,
00:12:21
Speaker
bone dry and 38 degrees every day. And it's just that constant reminder, I am not at home. um But yeah, big world and it's just like constantly, you like you're in a movie a lot of the time and then realizing that the movies have to be based on something.
00:12:39
Speaker
Was it like a trail running program or just like cross country? No, no. So I was, I did track and cross country because you can get, um, an NCAA scholarship under that. So they don't have trail running, at least not yet. That'd be cool if that that happens in the future. But yeah, there's no way I could afford to pay tuition without some help. Um, so yeah, ran track and cross country for two years, which there's a whole lot of weird rules in the NCAA. One of them is that,
00:13:06
Speaker
it's They're pretty restrictive around outside competition once you start a season. So even though trail running is technically a different sport, um it's just a lot safer to not compete outside of the track and cross country races that your team's doing. So that's why I didn't compete for those two years largely. I think I squeezed in one one race at UTK in between seasons. yeah um But yeah.
00:13:30
Speaker
Yeah, interesting. And how did you overall find your time there? I can imagine it had some ups and downs, but what did you what did you take away from it? And yeah, how was it overall? Yeah, I learned a lot. um I'm really glad that I did it, but I'm also glad that it's finished. um I'm glad I only went over there for two years and that I didn't go out over there straight out of high school. I had a bit more of a head on my shoulders to stand up for myself and know what was good for me and what wasn't. um But having an in-person coach is pretty different and a really good way to learn quickly because they you know they're watching you and they can pick up on the little things that are just hard to communicate online.
00:14:10
Speaker
um But yeah, so I learned a lot about you know what are the actual different gears that you have before that. If I did an interval session, it was either fast or slow. like I didn't know, I didn't understand the different levels. I'm still learning that today.
00:14:25
Speaker
um But yeah, I came a long way and in terms of that kind of thing. and um And I've learned a lot in the last few years about training load and how to balance that and what my body needs and how it's so, so different to a lot of other people.
Return to Australia
00:14:42
Speaker
um But yeah, really happy to be home. Australian culture is just different. We do have it good here. I always end up like after a certain amount of time overseas and like, yeah, no, I like home. um Yeah. Time to go back there again now. Awesome. And so coming home where are you at now? like How have you gone finding your feed again here? And obviously you've just made another big move. So where when you got back and you were finally able to jump back into the trail running world and the Aussie um community and everything, how was that and where's it landed you? um Yeah. When I first got back, I pretty much dove in a hole and stayed there for a bit. um I did not realize.
00:15:26
Speaker
how burnt out I was. Like I'd just been going at 150% for two years straight without realizing it. um And that part of, you know, that's the NCAA sport is so intense. Like you can't really describe it without experiencing it. It's the only thing that they care about. It's it's a microcosm which creates amazing results in an amazing environment. um But it's also it like 100% all-consuming. And at the same time, you're doing more than full-time study and meeting all the expectations that you have as an athlete that that you know they're paying for you to go through school. So you have to be there for the team.
00:16:04
Speaker
um and meet those expectations and go to go to the team meetings and do the extracurricular activities. um So it's more than a half time job on top of full time study. um And then I finished, graduated, ah that was a huge release after that happened and I didn't realize how much I was holding on to and then I graduated, finished with team commitments and just got a huge letdown, but I was still on the other side of the world. um I raced broken an arrow and then did the event week leading up to Western States and then went and volunteered at Western States, which was incredible. Nice. And then I had about seven days to sell my car and figure out how to ship all of my stuff home. And I did it. I sold the car the day before I flew out um and made it home. But yeah, fell in a bit of a heap after that. um I had plans to go back to race
00:17:03
Speaker
run the rut and to climb Cotopaxi in Ecuador, um canned all of that because I couldn't even fathom going overseas, let alone doing physical feats.
00:17:16
Speaker
um So, yeah, chilled out for a while. And then I decided to jump. I wasn't even planning on racing for the rest of the year, but decided to sort of just I just wanted to get it back in the rhythm of things and connect with the community again. I was craving getting back into the trail running world. It feels like a different sport and but between now and when I left Australia.
00:17:38
Speaker
in a good way, like it's come a long way in those two years. um And I wanted, I wanted a part of it. um Did rollercoaster as a build up race to UTK. And just, it just, I had a good race. Like I had no business competing with those women, which is good that I can't just turn up to a race and win. um There's some very serious competition, um which is really exciting. um But yeah, decided that it was more productive to,
00:18:08
Speaker
chill out and you know start from scratch and build up slowly and focus on 2025. Yeah, nice. Very, very nice. um I just had to ask, what did you graduate in?
Current Life in Canberra
00:18:18
Speaker
like What did you study? I got a Bachelor of Kinesiology, which is not Kinesiology as we know it here. It's it's equivalent with exercise science. Okay, cool. They use those words interchangeably over there, but here Kinesiology is a very left field.
00:18:34
Speaker
Yeah. i' ever say I don't ever write that on my resume without exercise signs in there too. Very fair. Awesome. And you're in Canberra to study more, aren't you? Oh, yeah, that bit. Yeah. So I got back i go back and didn't have any connections because I left my university in Australia, left the university in the States. So reconnected with my bio mechanics professor from Wollongong Uni. And there's a pretty renowned professor from Wollongong who I actually met through trail running, um but she's very well connected and well respected in this space. And so I had some deep meaningful conversations with her about life direction.
00:19:14
Speaker
in many ways. um But I have had a really positive experience with um some academics and them encouraging me and supporting me and trying to figure out where I wanted to go and I know that I don't want to do clinical work and so the next thing that I wanted to try out was um research. So decided to look at doing an honours year as a taster and then I'll decide if I want to keep going down that hole or not. um yeah but landed in Canberra because of the connect close ties with the AIS and so the high performance sports space. But I also really liked the supervisor um that I was going to be under who actually did her PhD under that professor from Wollongong I was talking about. So I sort of
00:19:54
Speaker
all come full circle. And I'll be doing a project that's defense related, which is close to my heart. um And probably one last look at defense from the outside before I decide if I go back in or not. um Yeah, so yeah, it just sort of fit in a couple of different ways. And then it turns out the canvas full of really cool trail runners. so That was a really nice bonus. Yep. Nice. Very quickly becoming a hub for trail. That's for sure. Awesome. So you're landed in Canberra. We're back in Oz, back in the community. And you said that you were chilling at the um UTK with the North Face team who you run for, yeah getting ready for 2025. So what does 2025 have in store for you in the plans?
00:20:40
Speaker
I'm still trying to figure that out a little bit. I've had a lot of big changes. I've i've changed coaches um as well as of two weeks ago. So I'm still finding my feet there, but I'm pretty happy with where everything's at in terms of being with the North Face, this new coach, being in Canberra, and still figuring out what I want to do with this year and what direction I want I want to go with running and what that means for this year, whether I start making changes this year or just get back into sort of the races that I'm familiar with that sort of 20 to 30 K distance and then see how I feel. But I'm hoping to get down to Buffalo. I'm not sure that I quite have enough time to get enough results under my
00:21:20
Speaker
belt to be a contender for the Worlds team, but that would be cool. But I'm not, I'm not hanging everything on it because I just don't think I quite have the time to pull some results out for that. um But if, if that doesn't happen, which is pretty likely, I'll probably look at going back to the rut again, back in Montana in the US, which is, it's a North Face event. And it's just, I've been there to support in 2022, the first year I went over over to the States and it's an event like no other. It's got so much character and I haven't done a race that technical before, which is something I'd like to have a go at too. Nice. I've always looked at Run the Rut and thought it looked incredible. so Yeah. better but And what what month is that in? September. it's about a it's yeah It's too close to Worlds to do them both.
00:22:09
Speaker
yeah Yeah, fair. um Especially if it's before because you're not allowed to. Yes, exactly. nice Nice. Are you thinking about the mountain running at Worlds or the trail running? ah The trail running, I think. Yeah, the short trail because it's not short. Yeah, I was going to say. What's the longest race you've done? um The 27 at UTK when it was 27. Well, it was actually 28.5.
00:22:39
Speaker
yeah Nothing's ever exact. We know this. Never expect it to be.
Training Regimen and Challenges
00:22:47
Speaker
ye Okay, cool. Very cool. Well, it'll be very interesting for everyone to follow along um where your year goes. but I think we normally talk through our most recent training as well. And I would love for you to start us off because I know your training, watching it over the years, you've had a number of different or similar injury problems that you've been navigating and throwing absolutely everything out by the looks. And you're based on the bike, as far as I can tell. at this point as well as running. yeah So talk us through a little bit of that and then take us through the last sort of week of training in terms of where, what does your setting up for 2025 look like? Yeah. So I've had a weird, like I think that most I've ever strung together in, since I started running was six months of consistent running. And in that six months I was hitting 100, 112 K's a week.
00:23:42
Speaker
And that for me is a huge block of confidence. I know that that is there and that I can do it. I just have to figure out how to make it work for me. um But in and around that I've had a couple of different bone stress injuries. It was a huge learning curve for me not being involved in sport growing up to learning how to meet the demands of sport um in terms of eating, recovery, everything that goes along with that. And something that I'm still learning but I'm a hell of a lot better at it now than what I was. um Just that the sheer amount of food that at least my body takes to run is nothing that any equation estimates um yeah and took a long time to learn. um And I'm slowly getting there, but it's definitely still a work in progress. um But yeah, what's that what that's meant in the last two years especially um is a lot of cross training. And I've had this shin problem that I've been dealing with for two years now. I've had plenty of MRIs on it. The bone seems fine. I just get this edema.
00:24:42
Speaker
subcutaneous edema that doesn't seem to settle. um So what I've done for the last two years is most of my volume cross training and then saving the workouts for running um and getting through NCAA races really. But now that I'm out of that and I've got more flexibility in terms of what I do and when I race and when I push and when I hold back, um we're experimenting a bit more with navigating it, which it seems to be doing all right at the moment. So I hope that we're getting somewhere.
00:25:11
Speaker
yeah Does it do better with sort of trail training as opposed to track and speed all the time? Not necessarily because um when you start to break down the actual mechanical stimulus on the body,
00:25:25
Speaker
Yes, soft surfaces is good for bone, but it also has a lot more stabilization and the forces on on your bones from your muscles is far greater than the impact on the ground. So that your muscles are working on the bones. And so on soft surfaces that your muscles are doing more stabilizing work, so they're pulling more on the bone. So it's sort of like a tricky situation to figure out what's best and what's not. yeah i it really They really like running uphill, which is why I've done a lot of treadmill work in the last month or so because I can run uphill constantly.
00:25:54
Speaker
yeah um Which isn't the case for everyone. where A lot of people that have shin splints, even though I don't think we should use that term because it's not very well defined, but a lot of people find that running uphill makes it worse. So it's, it's yeah, it's individual and a very undefined problem that I have that I'm just experimenting with really. Fun, fun. So what does that experimentation look like in a week? Well, for this week, for where we're at, it' it's been a bit of a wild week.
00:26:24
Speaker
with the move and then I went down to Bright for a training camp as well. So it's, there's a bit of everything in here, but last Monday I had, Monday's usually rest day. Um, and then Tuesday I moved to Canberra, but before I left, I had to tick a little project off, which was a Strava crown on my local hill climb. so his And I've been walking up that track since I was six and it's gone from being like the hardest thing ever.
00:26:53
Speaker
to like the thing that I do on my rest day for a walk. And it it's a 2K climb. Well, it's 2Ks long. It's got about 220 metres of gain, I think, which isn't a huge amount, but it's enough. um But they closed the track for the last year and they've just reopened it. And it's got a lot of stairs in it now and even a fair bit of boardwalk um because it gets pretty popular.
00:27:17
Speaker
Um, it's part of the Wadi Wadi track. Um, so yeah, to help with erosion, that kind of thing, they put a lot, a bit of boardwalk in there. So I'm still not sure if it's actually faster or not. I think it's slower. And I don't think that having short legs offers any advantage when it comes to stairs, because you just can't choose the length of step that you take. Um, that, and there was a big storm that came through the day before. So that was a huge gum tree over the track that I had to climb through.
00:27:40
Speaker
But so anyway, i I miss the overall crown by about 30 seconds. and i But I think there's a few spots I can make that up. um Women's one, but I think the overall one is right for the taking as well. Good. So yeah, did that in the morning, moved to Canberra um that afternoon or that day. um The next day on Wednesday, I was meant to have um two hours easy on the bike, but um didn't quite pull off the purchase of a bike trainer that afternoon um from a local triathlete here in Canberra. So um I ended up on the elliptical, which is a bit of it and a flashback to college, because that's what I did most mostly over there.
00:28:23
Speaker
um I have not figured out how to not get numb feet on the treadmill, on the elliptical. So if anyone has any... It takes the right shoes. I have one pair of shoes that I can wear on the elliptical and it never happens. And so I've no idea what's different about them though. I can't help on that front, but I just kept trying different shoes until I found one that worked.
00:28:41
Speaker
I've tried like really wide ones so that my feet aren't compressed at all. I've tried like putting my orthotics in there so that that's a bit lumpy. I don't know. yeah Mine have like a lot of cushion and not a carbon plate, but like a plastic plate in them or something. They're not fast designed for speed. They're designed for training, but they work.
00:28:59
Speaker
Okay. I'll keep, I'll keep playing. Um, yes, that was Wednesday. And then, oh, Tuesday I would have done strength as well. Strength twice a week. Um, and then Thursday, um, I just went for a run around the lake here in Canberra. I'm right near it. Um, I've got a cousin down here at ADFA and I did some Strava stalking and figured out what time he trains and figured that If I went out around six, I'd probably find him. And sure enough, I found a bunch of boys on bikes. That just proves how unsafe Strava is sometimes. Yeah. So you go for a run around a lake and you just run into someone, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So she takes that off and then um did some hill strides at the end of that eight by 15 seconds.
00:29:51
Speaker
um And then Friday I had a bike workout. um And then that was about an hour and a half total before the drive down to Bright, which is about five hours. um Saturday we had an easy run as a group, um about 75 minutes with a bit of climbing and did part of the climb that I did when I did race Buffalo, um which is the only time I've ever been to Bright before this.
00:30:20
Speaker
So it was a beautiful spot. Yeah. Um, that was sort of where a lot of things started for me as well in terms of higher levels of running. So it was a bit special to be back there. And then on Sunday we had a long run, which, um, we ran up Mount Buffalo 10 K constant climb, which was up the big walk. Yes. Up the big nice. I really, really liked it. And I just got the card down because I'm still building up.
00:30:49
Speaker
Um, yeah, we had some people set up a little aid station for us at the top. And so I got a lift down with them. And then Monday I went out for a road back with a couple of the others, which is the first time I've ever really done a proper ride outside, which was great. I really liked it. but turn for the man i good one Did it feel normal? Like, did it just feel like you're on your bike or did it feel weird? Uh, it felt a little bit weird. I don't really like going downhill.
00:31:19
Speaker
um But I think that comes with time and just like getting used to how fast things move past you. The real kicker was eating while balancing them by instead of like having your bench next to me with all my snacks laid out. um But yeah, it was great. And then, um yeah, then I drove home from bright that day. Nice. Nice. So is that overall layout similar to what you always do, but just obviously a little bit all over the shop in terms of location?
00:31:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. though I had a little bit more running that week, um, with the training camp. Um, but generally three, four, we're sort of doing four runs a week at the moment, um, with what one running workout, one back workout, but the running workouts are pretty small, sort of like 10 to 20 minutes worth of effort at this point. Nice. Does your coach set your cross training amount as well as the running amount?
00:32:13
Speaker
ah Yeah. Yeah. And the coach I've just changed who has a background in cycling. So it's very helpful in terms of like figuring out what effort level I should actually be at. Nice. Who's the coach? Blake Hose. I thought so. Cool. Nice.
00:32:30
Speaker
Very nice. Well, I think as everyone would have observed, hopefully, i'm i'm the lesson that I'm always trying to lay down to my runners is that a slow build is a good build and foundation does a lot when you get to come to consistency. say You look like you're on the right track. It's going to be hopefully an awesome 2025 for you from You're not going to be any short on training partners, that's for sure. Yeah, definitely. So you pick you've picked a bloody good spot, I reckon. Jess, you got any more questions for Paige before I throw it to you for an update on your week? No, just when are we going for a run?
00:33:10
Speaker
because they won sha trials Yeah, maybe this weekend. Yeah. ah yeah yeah Do it. Awesome. Well then, yes, ah also in Canberra, but I think you haven't been here there and everywhere this week or you can tell me if you have. um But how's your week been? Where we at?
00:33:32
Speaker
Yeah, it's been good. I just started my first sort of like week in the block before Buffalo Marathon. um So i had like a recovery week after two days and then got back into it. um So last week I got back into session so I did.
00:33:51
Speaker
um Yeah. So we've been going down to Philo's track sessions on Tuesdays and they've been getting pretty spicy recently because their athletes are like right in the middle of their track season at the moment. Um, so this one was like probably not super ideal for me, but it was a bit of fun. Um, so we went down to like a grass track and did some 800 meter work. And I was just like, hanging on for dear life. Like I just have not done that sort of running for so long. Like,
00:34:22
Speaker
probably three or four years. um And yeah, it was literally like two by 600, two by 400, two by 200, and then like a fast all out 300 at the end. Nice. What did you hit it in?
00:34:37
Speaker
Oh, it was on grass. It wasn't like super fast. I think it was like 47 or something, which for me, like I could, yeah, I'd probably want to go fast in that. Like if I'd had a bit of track training. um Because I think for someone that just jumped back on that sort of training for the first session, that's bloody fast.
Jess's Training Insights
00:34:56
Speaker
um I find I can whip out one wrap at that pace and then if I try to do another one, I just blow up. Yeah, fair. My lactic tolerance is non-existent. Yeah, but you don't train it so that's allowed to be like that.
00:35:12
Speaker
um Yeah. And then I just jogged Wednesday, Thursday, did strength on the Wednesday. um And then Friday was another session. So I'm starting my sort of like longer tempos again. um And I like to do them over heels, just off like perceived effort. It was three by 12 minutes. And I wrote in Penny um forget her last name, but she's a iron woman. So she does like, she's, she's hoping to go to the Kona like world champs this year. So, um, yeah, she was good to run with. She, um, has such a good engine. Like she can just go for days and days. So pretty good training. Yeah. a Penny Slater. Yeah.
00:36:00
Speaker
Um, yeah, so three by 12 minutes just around the base loop, um, at Ainsley, um, which I'm sure you've discovered that page, but it's a good little, like, it's not super heli, but it's got some little pinches in there, which you can sort of get rolling on. Um, which is good. And then, um, on the weekend I jobbed Saturday and then did a long run.
00:36:27
Speaker
on the Sunday, just, um, it was like two hours, 15. Um, but it included like a big climb, which I haven't been doing for a few weeks. Um, so it was pretty cooked after that tell and place So up to the top of, um, a mountain called Camels Hump, um, yeah yeah like a national park, um, sort of south of ACT. Um, so beautiful, like just.
00:36:53
Speaker
amazing views at the top. um It was just sort of like, I just took the fire rate because I was on my own um to the top and I didn't want to, I couldn't be bothered getting lost. I was like, oh, I'm just going to take the fire rate and then a little bit of rock scrambling. Like once you got to the very top, like 300 meters worth, which was a bit of fun. Nice.
00:37:11
Speaker
i Yeah, so it did come as hump and then I came back down and there's another little peak. So I was like going along there for a bit and it was getting pretty hairy. And then I ran into like a swarm of wasps. I'm tapping out now and then I went just like straight back down. Luckily it didn't get bitten though, which was like really weird, but I was like definitely panicking. I would have been too. Oh gosh. Nice. Nice. So how many, um how many Ks did you get in for the week?
00:37:38
Speaker
um I have no idea. I'm starting. Nice. Awesome. or so and ah for this build, to how many weeks is it to Buffalo Marathon? um I think it's eight now. Yeah. Okay, cool. And for this build, how how do you know how long your long runs will get and how big the Friday sessions will get? I'll probably find that out tomorrow, but I'd say it'll be similar to um my build for Hounslow. Yep.
00:38:05
Speaker
which I reckon I got up to like three, you know, maybe like three hours, three and a half hours. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm talking to my coach tomorrow to plan more of that, but I'd say it'd be pretty similar. Yeah. Nice. Nice. How are you feeling for it? Yeah, I'm excited. I feel really good. Yeah. Body feels super healthy. um I think, yeah, just like, I don't know, the second half of last year was really positive for me and like,
00:38:34
Speaker
Um, not having any major injuries last year just makes this massive difference because you can like pick and choose where you want to like, um, take time off. And I think I've just like finally flipped the switch where I'm not so pedantic about like having to run and like having to do certain amounts of running. Like.
00:38:53
Speaker
Yeah, just like, I don't know, the fact that I don't even know, like what my mileage is, like, I don't know, a few years ago, that would like stress me out heaps. So um yeah, reframed the mindset around it, which I think has helped a lot. It's good, because is this the most consistency you've had in a while? Yeah, definitely. um Yeah, it'll be like, yeah, once I get to Um, like May this year, it'll be two years without a stress fracture, which is a little win. We like that. We like that a lot.
00:39:26
Speaker
Little win that's actually a very big win in the long term scheme of things. So good. Let the build begin. um And that means if it's only eight weeks to Buffalo, that means that Donna doubles coming up a lot quicker than I thought. yeah done for that Oh, that's scary. I think Like good, slowly, sort of. I mean, it's still in that stage where it's so hit and miss day to day. Um, cause I just feel like I'm, I'm trying to be very patient with my body and give it the time it wants and needs to adapt as I layer everything back in. Because at this point it's still a case that every week I'm adding something back in that was in my training and did feel really second nature for so long. But then after a break and obviously the big, the
00:40:14
Speaker
100k and everything. It's like, I don't know. ah It's just, it's taken a lot longer to readapt to everything than I necessarily thought at the beginning of this. Um, but ah so I, yeah, I got in like a good week of training. I was back up, like I've kind of got my K's back up to sort of where I want them to be. I think I hit like 120 for the week, this one, but the one just gone. Um, but it was,
00:40:42
Speaker
Yeah, I started the week honestly, not in a good spot um or not feeling good because I ran, to be fair, the big the first mistake was that Monday's normally just an easy elliptical day um after my long run and I'd done my first two hour long run on the Sunday, but then the Monday instead of just doing an elliptical, I said yes to a run with a friend in the morning and it was 17Ks. It was a bit of a start of the week and then went, oh, I might regret this and be a little tired.
00:41:17
Speaker
and then Lo and behold, I get to Tuesday's track session and it was one of those ones where, I don't know if you ever had this Jess, there wasn't many of us there. I think there was three of us doing the session and Tim was there.
00:41:32
Speaker
And I was, so we were all doing it completely solo, but Tim was there timing us and like actually yelling the times and stuff. And I'm running around to do, it was six by one K. And as I'm running the reps, I'm like, I just wish I was solo right now. So I could tell you it was windy, it was hot, it was horrible. And that's why I was running shocking.
00:41:52
Speaker
Um, but anyways, when coach is there, you can't hide. So, um, I did do six by one K and I got through them, but I think it was one of the slower six by one K sessions. I think I've done in a solid six years at this point. So we, um, yeah, definitely learned the lesson early in the week that I had overdone it a little, um, by saying yes to too many things. So we're back to not saying yes to everything.
00:42:21
Speaker
Hopefully. um And then, yeah, the rest of the week, Wednesday, I did, to be fair, I will say, I did on the Tuesday, that was a morning session. And it was the first time I'd done a morning session in a long time and it was 7am.
00:42:37
Speaker
So trying to run 1Ks. Anyways, the afternoon I added back in uphills. So Paige, I took a leaf out of your book and I was running, I just did for my 30-minute easy but all uphill on the treadmill. um um Actually, I would love to hear what's your favorite gradient on the treadmill to run up?
00:42:57
Speaker
Oh, that depends. I feel like, I mean, a lot of the stuff I've been doing it lately, I've just been doing um like only a slight gradient. It's only been like 3%. It's just enough to like back the impact off, impact off a fair bit. um yeah But a huge change that I've made in the last two years was, ah and that this comes with like more education and understanding intensity and letting go of that pedanticness about mileage is understanding heart rate zones and training physiology.
Simone's Training and Achievements
00:43:26
Speaker
um So instead of, in and because I was doing so much cross training, I sort of forced into this mindset in that I no longer cared about Ks, I cared about amount of time in zone. So that meant that I could take a one hour easy run and plug it in a one hour bike, just spending the same amount of time at that
00:43:49
Speaker
heart rate. So when you run uphill, I just like back off the pace until my heart rate comes back into the right zone and then just chill there, which usually means a nice shuffle.
00:44:02
Speaker
Yeah, nice. Well, that's I'm glad you said that because that's exactly what I did. um But I have this thing where I just find 8% really nice to run up on the treadmill. I don't know what it is about it, but I still feel like I'm running, but it feels steep enough that like, yeah, i'm going I can see that I'm going up a hill and feel that I'm... Because sometimes 3%, you're like, this feels hard, but I can't... I don't know. You don't feel like you're really going up a hill.
00:44:27
Speaker
100%. They're very different mechanically. Yeah, exactly. So I just, yeah, 10%, I don't know, it just feels too hard, but 8% just for a constant little climb. I love. So yeah, I did 8% and I was doing exactly what you said. I was just holding my heart rate at a steady 140 beats and sat there for 30 minutes and it was the first climb I'd done. I realised that was longer than a couple of minutes since the since like the start of December. So um yeah, by the end of it, I was very much like...
00:45:01
Speaker
tired, you're something that used to feel so easy. But that was also my double after the track. So bigger day on the Tuesday, but I think the uphill actually helped because um I felt a lot better on my midweek long Wednesday. And I then undid all of the feeling better with the gym as usual at this point, but I hit my 100 kilo deadlift. So that was my win for the week. So I was happy.
00:45:32
Speaker
How many reps? Well, I did sets of six. I'd already done three sets of six at 95 kilos, and then I did one set of four at 100. So it was my fourth set. Yeah, I was pretty happy. I was also very tired.
00:45:51
Speaker
um Also, I was doing a little more because I knew this was my only gym that I was going to get in for the week. Normally, I would just do the three sets of six. um I do do a warm-up set at 80 kilos, so so technically four sets. But anyways, I would was trying to get five, I will say. I was trying to get five reps out at the 100 kilos, and I was like got to the fourth one. I was like, nah, don't injure yourself now. by trying to get greedy. So anyways, I was, yeah, I was pretty stoked already with that one. um Just it feels like how long are you going to keep that really heavy stuff in for? Like how many weeks? Yeah. So probably another, well now that I've gotten to that level there, cause the week before I was doing, I had done three sets of six at 95 already.
00:46:40
Speaker
Um, so like that's already my second week at that level. Um, and then I'll probably do another two weeks. So this week and next week. And by that point, I think I'm only what, four weeks out from Donna double and things will switch. Like I'll probably switch a lot of stuff to single leg as opposed to double leg. So same movement.
00:47:01
Speaker
but obviously a lighter weight because I'm going single leg. And um it's just in the last sort of two weeks, I'll go lighter again and really power based. But also, I've got to chat to Loki actually, because I might not do that so much for Donna Double, because being first race of the season and a long season ahead,
00:47:19
Speaker
um It's by no means my target race at this point. It's just the first race on the calendar kind of thing. So I've got to treat it very much like that and not like I don't like I'm not aiming to be peak fitness for that. So I may just stick a little longer with the heavy stuff.
00:47:36
Speaker
um and suck up being a little more tired. We'll see. We'll definitely see. But yeah, and then legs started to come good in the back half of the week, thankfully, where the easy runs were getting better. But my second session was just an 8K progression, which I've, I ah don't know if, I can't decide if I love or hate progression runs. So it was just progressing pace every 2K.
00:48:01
Speaker
um and like yeah got it done but i just found that the middle 4k because it's an odd pace because you're progressing from something that feels quite easy to something that feels quite hard my biomechanics felt all over the shop i don't know if that's it normal thing or not but i felt better in the last 2k when i'm like properly trying to run a threshold then trying to just back off a little bit and not run too fast. I don't know. I'd rather go fast or go slow, I think I found, essentially. um But yeah, and then my first mountain weekend, I was up at Mount Buller. So not too far as the crow flies from where you were, Paige, I believe. but
00:48:42
Speaker
the um We were doing four-wheel driving for checking the tracks for ah hard to hut 100K, which is coming up. So I was with the medical team and they have to go check like um which tracks are accessible by what cars for like medical evacuations and making sure we know where we can and can't get people out on of the course. So that was a lot of fun. I got to learn to four-wheel drive in a manual and I don't drive manual.
00:49:08
Speaker
so that was ah bit of interesting, but I've also realized four wheel driving and downhill running go really well together. But my quads may hate me because i two days in a row, both Saturday and Sunday, I got dropped at a high point, ran a little bit of uphill, but mostly just ran back down to the bottom of the valley.
00:49:25
Speaker
So I ended up with like, what did I do? 13Ks day one with I think 900 down and 150 up. And then, and that was down muesli spare. So it was really technical and fun. But then the next day, if I had had just done that, I might've got away with it because it was already my first downhill in a long time. But then the next day I just was having too much fun. I summited the bluff.
00:49:52
Speaker
which if you ever get a chance to do, it was so much fun. There's like some proper rock scrambling and then you get across the top and there's a beautiful plateau where you're running along the top and you can just view all the mountains in the surrounds. So highly recommend that. um But then Again, I think it had 900 meters up, but I think 1,700 or 600 down um because we ran down one of the four-wheel drive tracks. I was trying to see who would but win from the top to the bottom, the four-wheel drives or me.
00:50:27
Speaker
And um fun fact, you can run faster than four-wheel drives down four-wheel drive tracks if it's deep enough. So that was um that was actually a lot of fun because they had a head start and then I tried to catch the four-wheel drives and then just keep going to the bottom. But I think it was still three Ks of descent to go when my quads were done. Like I was in so much pain for the last three Ks of the descent back to camp.
00:50:50
Speaker
or back to where I was getting picked up. So I'm just calling that my start of my downhill conditioning for Donna because you need it. I was going to say. yeah i I was at the point on Monday where after the drive home as well, and on Monday I was like sitting down on the toilet, you're just collapsing onto the chair and you can't get back up. And yeah, I was in proper all sorts.
00:51:13
Speaker
Um, but we got back running today, so it's fine. It will, the legs I've learned to cope over the years, but yeah, a mixed week, a good week. It feels like the things are slowly starting to tick and it was so damn nice finally to be back on like proper trails and mountains and spending a long time in them. Cause I think in the all up, that was like a two and a half hour long run for me. Um, and.
00:51:36
Speaker
Yeah. like i mean i'm I'm glad that I took as long of a break as I did from trails and those sorts of things, because all of a sudden it's all awesome and fun and new again. Or not new, but yeah, it's different again. But um I'm glad to be back. That's for sure. Now I'm all of a sudden like, okay, take away all the road and let me go back to the trails every day now, please. um So very quick speech.
00:52:01
Speaker
What's your plan for sessions? like Are you still going to do track and like the road tempos, or are you going to do some trail sessions now? So the still we're still taking the mindset into Dona. And I think I agree that I know I need to spend as long as possible with speed. um And I actually ran really well that first year I did Dona off a track season and zero trail training. So i'm I know that my capability is better, I just need Like I need the speed so we've already got my training plan the whole way up and I'm pretty sure I have track sessions Every single Tuesday this week. I'm doing a fast park run 5k as fast as I can just to see where my 5k sits I'm not holding my hopes too high, but we'll see what happens and I think we've put in three trail sessions essentially in the lead up one uphill one downhill and one rolling
00:52:57
Speaker
um So in the entire build, I'll only do three trail sessions and everything else will be track or road, trying to just maintain as much speed as possible at this time of year to take into the rest of the season.
00:53:11
Speaker
Um, cause yeah, next week or no, in a couple of weeks I'm at, um, Kunanyi trail camp, trail training camp, um, for Kunanyi and I get one of my downhill sessions is to run their new downhill course as fast as I can. So that'll be fun. oh But yeah, I've kind of just put in some fun trail sessions in amongst a lot of the stuff that I find hard and somewhat demoralizing at times, but also really good for me.
00:53:38
Speaker
Yeah. So see how it goes. Also just very much, I'm, I'm, I'm the person that can get like so one-minded on a race once I've got a race on the calendar that I'm really trying to keep in mind that it's the first race. Like don't, don't mentally like over commit and cook yourself when it's the 9th of March and you got to be going until the 9th of November sort of thing. Um, so yeah, should be fun. Should be fun. But I think.
00:54:05
Speaker
Moving on from training time um and our updates, we have a few listener questions to touch on. Now, one listener question did get sent through Tanny, I think was the name, and it was, when did our trail running journey start? We've just let you know about pages, and I'm going to send you back to our initial episodes at the beginning, did deep dives into the and ah trail running journeys of myself and Jess. So go find our first few episodes and give them some love and you'll find all of the info. Then another question has come in from Shane Flint. And this one is, I'm hoping Paige, I reckon you're going to have some good info on this one. And that's, are there any specific benefits to running twice per day compared to one longer run?
00:54:57
Speaker
I've got a few in mind, but Paige, the exercise physiologist among us, or exercise scientist. I have a couple of thoughts. It's been a while since I looked at any research into this stuff, and I'm sure that there's new papers coming out.
00:55:12
Speaker
quite regularly at the moment, but I think it depends on how often you're doing it. So I think that it's definitely, there's a different stimulus that starts to happen once you sort of go over 90 minutes and your body starts to use different processes. So I think it's still important to get those longer stimulus stimuli in, but um in terms of like practicality, it can make a huge difference. Like not everyone can do a 90 minute run before work or whatever. So if you break it up into an hour and 30 or whatever split you wanna do,
00:55:42
Speaker
That can help a lot of people.
Discussion on Running Techniques
00:55:44
Speaker
um the Some people find that it makes them feel better if they do an easy jog in the evening. I think the key word there is easy. um ye And the whole, the sentence, flushing luckhead out of your legs does not make any sense, so we can let go of that concept.
00:56:04
Speaker
but It just gets the blood flowing, it gets things moving. There are other ways to do that as well. Go for a walk, go for a spin, do some yoga, whatever. um Just don't go nuts, basically. um And then i my brain starts to wonder about um bone loading rates as well. Like would it be would it be more beneficial to split it up into two smaller chunks um so that you've got a little bit more time to recover in between? Or would it be worse because bone tends to sort of
00:56:35
Speaker
go deaf to the to the impact loading after a certain number of cycles, which is why when we do plyometrics, we only do a short number of reps. um And running isn't that great for bone density because we're just repeating the same thing and this the signal gets turned off eventually.
00:56:52
Speaker
So by splitting in two, we're lessening the distance, but we're also lessening the recovery between loading. So yeah, I have a lot of scattered thoughts about it. I don't have any one opinion. There is pretty good research on the bone loading front that two is better than one. Two shorter split up runs is better than one longer run. Partially for that reason, like you your bone has become deaf to the stimulus after a little while. and the longer the run goes, the more depleting it becomes. So you're depleting resources all in one. And at least with a split run, yes, you say you're decreasing recovery time between, but you also need less recovery time from a shorter run. And you get a chance for the bone to sort of reset and get a new bone strengthening stimulus, at least initially, as long as there's enough nutrition and everything going in to save it. Yeah, so I guess that's where the time in between becomes important.
00:57:48
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. It needs to be long enough between them. Yeah. Yeah. So from the research papers I've read, they do say anywhere from four to eight hours. I would go from more than six to eight being ideal personally um and from the feel I have on it. But the um the one of the bonuses of split runs is just being able to get a little bit more mileage in and recover. I feel I recover better from two run two shorter runs as opposed to one longer run.
00:58:19
Speaker
But then there's times in my training where if I'm training for a really long ultra, I actually just want that one long run, knowing that that's the load, that's the adaptations I want my body to get the most used to. So I think it depends on what your aim is for that day. um I'm going to, personally, I'd say a recovery day. If you wanted to do two 30 minutes instead of one 60 minutes, I'd say you might end up a little better off.
00:58:44
Speaker
Um, because that 30 minute isn't too much loading on anything and can. Over time, if you're doing that instead of 160 minutes from the research, I've read the bone density aspect of things will be better, um, recovery a little better, but then the stimulus isn't that much different, um, in that front. So then there's the other aspect of, yeah, if you're actually looking for that day to be.
00:59:12
Speaker
a stimulus towards an ultra or a really long event and it needs to be one longer run. But that would be for like one or two days a week. Yeah, I think we can safely say it depends. It depends. Yeah, Jess, what are your thoughts? like Um, yeah, so the only time I ever do a double run is like a Tuesday, um, just because Monday is always a rest day for me. So, um, like it's quite a big chunk of time for me to not run from like Sunday morning to.
00:59:46
Speaker
Tuesday night. So then I just started adding in like a really slow, easy jog on the Tuesday morning if I feel like it. Like today I didn't do it because it was like 30 degrees at whatever like 8am already. So I just was like, it's too much stress on the body. yeah So you just kind of have to play it by ear. I think like, I think if you're feeling really good and like um you feel like you can get in like another run, then it's definitely beneficial. But Yeah, in terms of like splitting up, I haven't really split up two easy runs before. I've never really done that. um But it is yeah something interesting that I could look at doing once i've um once I'm wanting to like boost try and boost my leg again if my coach think thinks that's a good idea. It's probably like one way I'd try and do it.
01:00:35
Speaker
Yeah. Cool. Hopefully that gives some some idea on it, but I would definitely recommend looking into at least a little bit of the research. The only thing I know on this that actually it has an impact on would be energy resources and bone healing and density. um Overall would be, I can't think of much else other than obviously adaptations for ultras and stuff, but that wouldn't necessarily be what you're aiming for in a recovery day. So, depends what day. Let's go with that. ah Now, the only other question we've got is relating to Perth and Poles. um And that comes in from James. I'm just quickly gonna
01:01:18
Speaker
make sure I get the wording on it right. And he's wondering, so he's training for Buffalo 100, but he's in WA, so he doesn't have much opportunity to practice with his poles on serious hills. And then he said, given the steep climbs and technical descents on the Buffalo course, what are the pros and cons of using poles and would you still recommend them even if I hadn't had much chance to train with them?
01:01:43
Speaker
Now we've all seen some of the buffalo terrain. um not sure it Not sure if any of us have seen the entire of the 100 course um in terms of bright area. But yeah, what what was that? I've like walked to the top of the horn. Nice. the yeah There's definitely some steep stuff. There's definitely some technical stuff. And there's definitely terrain that over 100k poles can be beneficial on. But if you can't train with them,
01:02:12
Speaker
Um, my, I guess my advice is save them for emergencies. Um, I think like I reckon you can definitely train with them in Perth. Like even though there's no long, there's no long heels, but there's definitely steep ones. Um, okay. So yeah, where's the steep ones? Where can he go?
01:02:32
Speaker
Yeah, happy to send some Strava files through, but I'd say like anywhere around Kalamundar and Mundaring, I don't know, the hill might only go for like a K or so, but it's definitely steep enough to practice with the poles. Yeah, K hill, definitely. 100%. If you can get a steep hill that even goes for 500 meters, I've done hill reps up 500 meters with poles to practice using them.
01:02:58
Speaker
so and You only need a little bit at a time necessary to like get the idea behind it. But poles are huge in terms of offloading the legs over a longer distance. like they do take They can take when efficiently used, like 20% of your weight off your legs as you're going up a climb. to Obviously, it puts it on your upper body, so you do want to be try and train with them so you can be efficient because Inefficient pole use can actually end up using more energy than no poles if you're not used to them because it's not as if you're not doing the effort. You're just sharing the load between upper and lower body um as opposed to it all being on the legs, which can save the legs.
01:03:39
Speaker
They do, they can, they've saved me many times in when I've trained with them on a downhill in terms of falling because you can use them real efficiently when you know how to, um, shoving them out wide to stop yourself from going offline and falling and turning corners real fast with poles. Um, that's a lot of fun. Just don't get it stuck in the ground. But, um, yeah, I suppose recommendation there. Follow Jess's advice. Go, at go train with them anywhere and everywhere you can.
01:04:07
Speaker
because they will help. um I wouldn't, not sure I would have made it through Thailand without my poles, but also I didn't do a huge amount of practice with them. I just knew how to use them and be efficient. And they still helped a lot when I did use them. So Paige, you've never touched poles, I think you said. No, I haven't had to, but um generally I think if you're going to use them, I think it's worth checking the race rules in terms of if you, some of them I know if you you have to start with them and finish with them. You have to have them the whole way. Others let you like leave them in a drop bag or something. But like, if you're gonna, if you have to do the whole race with them, you want to make sure that, you know, is it just one climb where you'd use them and you're carrying them the rest of the way? Like, I think there's a bit of cross benefit to weigh up. And also just getting really, really familiar with putting them away and getting them out. So you're not fumbling and fiddling the whole time. And you actually know what you're doing with them.
01:05:01
Speaker
That might be slightly less important because I fumbled my way through Thailand. I was definitely the person that had to stop and like figure out how to collapse it and get it back in my pack and like stop to shove it back in my quiver properly because I had not practiced. it I'd practiced that. But honestly, it's so hard. like it's just Especially when you're still trying to move up or down the hill. Anyways,
01:05:25
Speaker
I found that ah difficult. And so I fumbled my way through. You can still do it. um and But I do will say that again, yeah, as Paige put out, the cost benefit thing there is it just depends on how often you're using them because I had many, many hours of use of them over the race that I was doing at Buffalo. I would probably say that even if you do have to carry them the whole way, they're going to be a benefit if you know how to use them. um and yeah The the darret the they are danger you get in if you're like me and don't know how to put them away is you put them away much later than you should.
01:06:02
Speaker
Because yeah I was running along at times and I'm like, oh, it's flat here. I should really get rid of them. But like you're in a little bit of a rhythm with the poles on the flat. And so I'm like, eh, whatever. We'll do it soon.
01:06:13
Speaker
Um, because I just wasn't efficient with the, the putting them away and getting them back out. But, um, but yeah, the, they are going to help if you know how to use them. So even if you've got plenty of time, one session a week on them where you actually just take them on a run and just get used to carrying them in whatever way you carry them on a long run. And even if there is only one climb on the long run, you're a used to carrying them used to getting them out, putting them in and then using them up that one climb. You put them away. That's still some good training with them. So that would be.
01:06:43
Speaker
probably my recommendation. They're going to help, so over 100K at least. Like if it was the 50 or the marathon, I'd say the marathon's net downhill, don't bother. um but But for the 100K year at Buffalo especially, there's there's some good ones in there and they might save you save you up Dingo Ridge, that's for sure.
01:07:03
Speaker
What about um the Big Walk? like Is that steep enough in poles or is it runnable? In the 100K, I'd be using poles up there. um In the shorter stuff, um a Big Walk's beautiful, runnable terrain when your legs are okay um for the most of it. like I actually think Big Walk is a brilliant climb.
01:07:24
Speaker
um But I don't even know, do the 100K go up and down it or just up it? I don't even know the course. They definitely at least go up it. Because there were a couple of guys in the run on Sunday who were like, wow, this is much easier when you're on fresh legs and not in the 100K race. No, I think they definitely go up and down because they start in bright and finish in bright and go to the top. Yeah, OK. Yeah, OK, fair.
01:07:52
Speaker
Yeah, I'm going to say big walk is definitely the sort of terrain that even if you are running at times, the poles are going to help you while in a running motion as well. Like poles aren't just for when you're hiking. You can run once you know how to use them, you can run and still offload your legs.
01:08:08
Speaker
using the poles up, even on the flat, to be fair, but you're not really offloading on the flat. You just you just feel like you've got a little little safety blankets in each arm at that point. So hopefully that answers your question, James. Any further questions on that one, we can ah probably get, I don't know, I don't even think I've seen flat use poles. None of us have used them much. So,
01:08:33
Speaker
We'll, but we can get some more answers for you. We can ask the community, see what what everyone thinks um and maybe get someone on that actually knows what they're doing on this front because. None of us necessarily do, but there's our advice at least. And then one more thing to touch on for this episode. um Now that all the listening questions are done, we don't have any results to go through this week, but there was something that dropped, I think,
Singletrack Trail Team Announcement
01:09:00
Speaker
today. It was on socials. And that was that Singletrack are building a trail team for 2025 and beyond. I believe it's meant to be
01:09:11
Speaker
every year from here on out that they build a team of 12 runners. um And I'll just give some of the details before I get the thoughts from the girls. And that is that it is 12 runners, six male, six female. um Six of those runners will be under 23. And then it essentially the team is single track and Asic supported there's a big package that they get um there's some pure nutrition and a few other things that they get but it's but designed and they all have to run three out of the four um single track events and. Yeah i think that's enough of the details but just what are your thoughts.
01:09:57
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's awesome for the sport. like I think um single track have done really well like to like look after the athletes in the sport. and like um I think it would be good to like keep the races competitive and support.
01:10:15
Speaker
um like athletes who don't necessarily get support from like brands or um stuff like that to like get to the races and get gear. So yeah, I think it's super positive. What about you Paige? Yeah, similar similar sort of thoughts. I think that there's a big space in terms of, um there's a lot of room for creating the space for development to happen. um It's a sort of, I think it's a worldwide problem, but especially here in Australia, like It's a pretty big leap to get into the sport. um And it's not cheap. We like to talk about trail running as being welcoming and accessible, but the costs really add up, um especially when they're in more remote locations.
01:11:00
Speaker
um So yeah, it's really cool to see. Yeah, I love the under 23 aspect of it on that front because goodness knows I wouldn't have been able to afford trail running as a under 23. It's not necessary. Like it is, it you would i would be able you'd be able to afford the local events. There's so many beautiful local events.
01:11:23
Speaker
all over the country. um And you could definitely become an awesome part of the community without doing too much of the travel or the big events or going and spending a bunch of money, that's for sure. But when it comes to running, it's on the more expensive side for the mandatory kit for the races, for the just the overall equipment that you would need to do it healthily and safely. And I can just think of all the things I've done, even just for training, buying a PLB so that I'm safe out on the mountains and like a whole bunch of things that you wouldn't have thought of at the beginning that just add up over time. And that can make it really prohibitive for younger athletes and anyone really at the end of the day. so
01:12:12
Speaker
that I absolutely love it. I'm going to be so keen to see A, who's on it. i on the um On the video, they had Caitlin Howlett, who people may remember. okay She was second at GPT 50, has been two years in a row.
01:12:27
Speaker
Brilliant runs there. And was it Ryan Lowe also on the video? um So I believe they're the team captains and it's going to be managed by the lovely Kate Avery. So it's a pretty cool opportunity and its application, the announcement was that applications are open. So was it Feb 18th? You saw their closed page? Yeah. Awesome.
01:12:50
Speaker
So yes, applications are open now for the single track trail team and close Feb 18th. And I, for one, I'm going to be very keen to see who's on that and how it all plays out, I suppose, over the year, because they do have single track, have their four big and growing events. um And we're going to see it's going to be launched at Buffalo. So we'll see all of them at Buffalo, which is a quick turnaround, but doable.
01:13:17
Speaker
got time. there's There's many different event distances at Buffalo, so lots to choose from and jump in on. um But yeah, exciting times. well We might get the boys at the Vlad and Brody's take on it next week, see what their thoughts are, because I haven't seen anything of the like in my time in trail running in Oz. Yeah. it seems to saying to sorry very much you guys I think even just having like other people to talk to about it will be huge. Yeah. Oh, yeah. When I was that age,
01:13:47
Speaker
I was pretty lost, didn't really know what I was doing, especially in trail running. I think it's like it's like innovative across all formats of running. like I've not really seen anything like that in the track or road. I know there's some brands that jump in, but it's not really publicized. like You can't really apply for it. It's just like all sort of behind closed doors and you don't really like see the opportunities pop up.
01:14:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think there big there's one in the States called the Trail Team. Yeah, definitely. ron yeah whaka and he's He's a phenomenal human being and doing some really cool things, um which is still, it's probably still another step up from what this is, but this is, yeah, we haven't seen anything like in Australia yet. Yeah, it's awesome. This is where the Trail Team kind of started though, which was cool. like Back in early days, the trail team was, I loved what Andy did there. And I have seen small versions, there's like sort of the world over, but in different um sort of environments, there's one in the yeah UK, I think it's elite trail team. um And there's a few throughout Europe, ahve but yeah, bringing it to Oz, I think is pretty damn cool. so
01:14:59
Speaker
Yeah, watch this space. We'll try and keep tabs on when it's announced. and i so I think it might just be announced at Buffalo, to be fair, by the looks of it. That's where they're launching it. so yeah i'd say kate to I think they said announcements on the 4th of March.
01:15:13
Speaker
Oh, that's early. That's awesome. That's not too long to wait at the end of the day. So get your applications in. You might know in a month if you're part of a big trail team. So yeah, that'll be cool. We'll follow that along over the
Upcoming Trail Events
01:15:28
Speaker
year. And other things to follow along what's coming up next week is Cradle Mountain. This is something I've always wanted to do. Cradle Mountain Run down in Tassie.
01:15:38
Speaker
and then Kilkunda Running Fest in Victoria, Southeast Queensland Trail Series in Bunyaville, Beowar at night, a night running Queensland, and the Maribyrnong Backyard Ultra, which I have a friend doing and um'm he's trying to make 100k and I really hope he does. So I think it's a pretty cool, i've I've noticed more and more people jumping in backyard ultras to try and get their first 50k or their first 100k because it seems Like it's an easier and safer way to do it almost. You can pull out at any point, but you're never far from your aid station and you get a lot of aid and break time to sort of help you get there. So I've just noticed more and more people trying to do the backyard format for their first of a certain distance, yeah which I think sounds smart. So cool.
Episode Wrap-Up
01:16:30
Speaker
Well, I think that wraps us up for this episode. How are we feeling?
01:16:34
Speaker
Yeah, good. Good. What have you both got got ah got coming up? Jess, you've got to recover from tonight's track in the heat, but ah what's on for the rest of the week? I still haven't got like my dinner down, I feel that. Oh no.
01:16:51
Speaker
Um, what's on for the rest of the week? Just a bit of work, um, continuing with training and yeah, getting through the heat wave. The usual life. Yep. The Aussie heat, Aussie summer, good heat training, heat gains. Yeah. Awesome. What about you, Paige? Um, I have a little session in the morning, um, and then work and a whole bunch of like orientations and onboarding sessions. Oh, fun.
01:17:21
Speaker
It's an absolutely mental week, so. Oh, yeah. I hated that week every time. Tried to skip as much as I could. Nobody likes that. Yeah. Awesome. But once it's over, you'll have your plan. You'll be good. Awesome. Well, thank you everyone for listening. We thank you for the listener questions, those that sent it in. Please keep them coming. We love getting both feedback and questions into our DMs on Instagram. So give us a follow. And if you have any questions that pop up, chuck them through. And otherwise, this has been episode