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Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Spoiler Review)
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In this episode of Chatsunami, the duo discuss the highly anticipated Sonic the Hedgehog 2!
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Transcript
Episode Introduction
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami. I'm Satsunami and spin dashing into the sequel with me today is my very good friend and co-host Adam.
Guest Motto and Introduction
00:00:29
Speaker
Adam, welcome back. Hello, hello. Good to be back and I'm looking forward to doing a little bit more living and a little bit more learning.
00:00:36
Speaker
Well, that's all we can ask for. Pretty much, yeah. But we've got it on a family motto, haven't we?
Sonic 2 Review Begins
00:00:46
Speaker
Yes, that's true. I was going to say, if you've been watching, the world is not enough recently.
00:00:54
Speaker
Yeah, I have to admit I need to go back and rewatch it, but that is an episode for another day. We will do Piers Brosnan month next month, okay? He will definitely get his time to shine, because we've been through Timothy Dalton, and we've been through Daniel Craig, so you know what? Yeah. I love the fact that we're starting off a Sonic the Hedgehog 2 review by threatening Piers Brosnan.
00:01:21
Speaker
I'm sure there's a connection there somewhere. I was going to make a hedgehog joke, but I don't even know if he's got any relation. OK, well, they sing in Sonic the Hedgehog and they sing in Mamma Mia. There you go. Sonic boom. There's your connection. Hey, see, we're all connected. See? You just thought we were crazy. Anyway.
Success vs. Critic Opinions
00:01:43
Speaker
So yeah by that very weird tangent today we're going to be talking about the Sonic the Hedgehog 2 film which honestly has been long in the marketing and it came out to pretty much commercial success would you agree? Oh yeah definitely I mean I think it's more than made his money back.
00:02:03
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. And while the critics hate it, yeah, fans seem to love this album. I mean, have you seen the divide on Rotten Tomatoes? Yeah, I did see. I mean, you usually do get a quite noticeable divide between critics and kind of audience, but this one seems to be particularly
00:02:20
Speaker
particularly undemided. Oh no, absolutely. It's like 97% versus like 60 odds. Yeah, I did have a laugh after I met reading some of the critics' takes on the film. And don't get me wrong, some of them are like genuine critiques saying it might have not lived up to the hype and everything, I think. Okay, fair enough, but my god, some of the other takes were
00:02:43
Speaker
a little bit pretentious and I don't want to spend this whole episode, you know, pooping on those opinions. I'm gonna get out of the way really quick, but you know, you had some people saying things like, oh Sonic has nowhere to go from there on. And I was like, oh boy, if you listen to our whole Sonic month, then you'll probably know that, yeah, he has a lot of places to go.
Subjectivity of Reviews
00:03:04
Speaker
I mean, have you seen reviews like that? I've seen a couple, I was kind of skimming through a couple before we went on.
00:03:09
Speaker
and yeah like to be honest it's kind of if you asked me before the film came out and you said to me right Adam predict what the critics what critics reviews will generally be I probably would have put a lot of the things people have said professional critics have said about it and yeah fair enough again it's all just opinions at the end as much as critics it's just people's opinions at the end of the day so works for someone work for some people that won't work for others so
00:03:32
Speaker
Look, to all people's opinions, just don't trust anybody's opinions, make your own. Except for Chatsunami's opinions, which are 100% true. That's true, really valid one, I should say. We are a valid news source for legal reasons, that's a joke. We're not actually a news source. Freaking news. Chatsunami have no idea what they're talking about. I thought you were going to say, breaking news. Adam just finds out he's got a new job.
00:03:57
Speaker
A bit of breaking news. Piers Brosnan confirmed his massive Sonic fan. Oh, is he going to be the third Sonic fan? Do you all know that? I'm going to edit out that particular character you just mentioned. I just picked a character at random. Oh, totally, yeah. Well, I mean, now you're making it very obvious now. If you feel anything, you're doing more damage than I did. This interview's over.
Piers Brosnan Hypotheticals
00:04:18
Speaker
So sorry, what was that you were saying about Professor Gerald Robotnik? Yeah, sorry. Yeah, Peter Rosner's going to play Professor Gerald Robotnik. That's true. Oh my God. I would love that. Obviously Cass and that would be, though. He totally wouldn't, but oh my God. I'd want that or I'd want... Who's the fanciest... Who's like the fanciest actor right now? Who's like Anthony Hopkins or something like that? I'd love... I just want somebody like that, Ben Kingsley, just to come and play Gerald Robotnik. Oh no. Let us pay homage to Ben Kingsley.
00:04:48
Speaker
for five minutes until he gets blown up in a space station. Can't wait for that firing squad scene. So yeah, as you can tell, spoilers ahead. We actually had a conversation before this episode saying, right, we'll leave the intro kind of spoiler free. Yeah, so Gerald Robotnik makes a huge appearance, okay, with the cats out the bag. Yeah, I know. Yeah, they pay homage as a president in this. You know, the marketing was not very truthful in this. It was just that mockumentary of Gerald Robotnik.
00:05:20
Speaker
film. What did Joe Robotnik mean to you? How did Joe Robotnik affect your life? Aren't you the president? Answer the question. Talk to the camera. I'm not here. So yeah, funny story.
Personal Anecdotes and Impressions
00:05:31
Speaker
Before we go into talking about what we thought of this film, before we dive into what we loved about it, what we hated about it, I have a bit of a story to tell because I was actually going to see this film on opening day. I told you this. But you were very excited. You were bragging. You were walking around with the swag.
00:05:50
Speaker
flashing them for your tickets. Like I kid you not, I ordered the tickets like I think maybe a week or two in advance and I was like oh I cannot wait, I am so excited. I was going to take my girlfriend, you know, they're dragging my girlfriend to my show, I don't know, it's like you're gonna go see something, can you like it? And yeah we were about to go and
00:06:11
Speaker
couple of days before we were supposed to go and see it, I fell ill with a stomach bug. And do you know what that reminded me of? Have you ever seen the episode where Homer wants to go to Duff Gardens?
00:06:25
Speaker
Oh, I think I may have given back. I've not seen it in a while, but I remember the one you're talking about. Yeah, it's like when he wants to take Bart and Lisa to Duff Gardens, and he ends up falling deathly ill because he eats like a bad sandwich, and he's like trying to crawl to the cargo, and he must get to Duff Gardens. And he collapses on the steed of milk when you just hear the brrrrrrr. That's how I felt. I was like, must get to Sonic 2.
00:06:51
Speaker
Yeah, I was deathly ill with that stomach bug, I could not go. So I ended up, I missed it. And weirdly enough, at the time of recording this episode, I've only just got the refund for it. So yeah, shout out to Odeon for that. Yeah, I was really gutted. So I had to wait until like a couple of weeks later to actually watch this film. And yeah, I've got to say,
00:07:13
Speaker
Overall, absolutely loved it, a lot of great fan moments, really just a lot of things. Overall, I would say this was a great film personally. I really went in, I enjoyed it, came out with a smile on my face, but what did you think of it, Adam? Yeah, so I went to see it, me and my fiance went to see it about a week
00:07:33
Speaker
a week after it had been released? Yeah, and we had a lot of fun with it as well. I don't know what my expectations were. I really enjoyed the first film. So again, I was kind of hoping that it would keep the momentum up and kind of be a good thrill ride as well. And I had a lot of fun. I thought it was really good film. There's not much. I mean, I don't think it's perfect by any stretch, but there's nothing I was really sitting there being like, oh, this is ruining my enjoyment. I thought it was a lot of fun. It's well paced. It's funny. It's a lot of good laughs, good action. So yeah, we both had a great time watching it. Well, there was a lack as you had heard, Robotnik has established
00:08:02
Speaker
Well, that's true. That's my big detraction. So that's why I only get 2 stars. 2 out of 10. Yeah, this was a very short review. Probably like our speediest review. So thank you all so so much for joining this episode. If you'd like to- Nah, I'm not kidding. Nah. I still got like a never or two left of this episode. Now will you just talk about why Piers Brosnan should play Children Botany?
00:08:23
Speaker
It's a shame because I don't think Pierre Brosnan is one of those actors that uses Twitter or anything, but can you imagine being the person who, the reason he wakes up in the morning, he has his breakfast, he looks out of his window, he thinks, today is a good day and then he looks down at his computer and he's like, why the hell was Pierre Brosnan Gerald Robotnik then?
00:08:45
Speaker
on Twitter. Yeah, no, we will not be responsible for that, but if you want to directly message – no, I'm kidding. Yes, Adam, can you back me up and listen? I was going to say, is this when we find out we actually haven't worked with an influence over fans that we actually realised?
00:09:06
Speaker
Our legions of followers are outside Pierce Brosnan's house, wherever he is in the world. Just being like, pay homage to Gerald or Bob, we're signing on. That's a long sign, but still the big sign, but still. Where are the lizards?
00:09:23
Speaker
Oh god, anyway, our fan-fiction aside, will we just jump into it? Talk about loving and learning. I mean, Sonic month is just over. It's like, what's that
Sonic 2's Generational Appeal
00:09:39
Speaker
line of The Godfather to get? When I thought I was ill and they pulled me back in.
00:09:43
Speaker
We promise that we'll go into different topics, but you know, considering how big Sonic Hedgehog 2 is just now, yeah, we might as well talk about it. Get out of the way and then we can move on to, you know, cheerio games like Edith Finch. And that terrible joke aside, we will see you right after these messages.
00:10:02
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that talks about topics, from gaming and films to streaming in general interest. Previously on Chatsunami, we discussed Game of the Decade, Deadly Premonition, the romantic thriller, Birdemic, and listen to us get all sappy as we discuss our top five Christmas films. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can find us an anchor, Spotify, YouTube, and all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:10:33
Speaker
We are Beer and Chill Podcast. Podcast where we review TV shows, games, movies, and whatever else takes our fancy. So what are you waiting for? If you're a cool kid like us, you're gonna listen to the Beer and Chill Podcast. You can get it anywhere from Spotify all the way to your grandma's radio. My name is Jan. And I'm Creaky C. And we are Beer and Chill.
00:11:09
Speaker
the positives of this film because yeah there has been a lot of positive reception from fans for this film and I was honestly quite surprised because I wasn't sure whether people were going to love it, they were going to hate it. In all honesty would you say Adam that you expected this kind of film considering what we got from the first film?
00:11:32
Speaker
Yeah, I was actually quite surprised with how much fan service was in this one. As you kind of alluded to with the first film, there is stuff in there, but it felt more like a film for newcomers. Maybe people who'd never played a Sonic game or just knew Sonic in passing. It was a much more... A film for them. You didn't have to know a lot about the character and the universe to get into it and enjoy it.
00:11:55
Speaker
I was so surprised at how much this one embraced all of the extended Sonic universe and the characters it brought in. There's so much fanservice, which I think is a great thing in this film, from the big things obviously having knuckles and tails in there, to even the small things when he's underwater and he sucks in the air bubble and stuff. I just thought the level of fanservice was just...
00:12:12
Speaker
There were so many small moments as well though, which I thought were great. For example, the cafe that Agent Stone takes over is the Mean Bean Cafe, which refers to, I think it's Dr Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine. Apparently though, here's a fun fact for you tonight. Before this film came out, there's actually a prequel comic. Yeah, it's called The Prequel.
00:12:36
Speaker
like a, you know, hedgehog's quills. I drove that, it was pretty clever, but it like follows different stories. So it's like Tails trying to find Sonic, Knuckles hunting down Eggman, but not, you know, knowing it's Eggman on the other side. Sonic, you know, being Sonic, trying to become Blue Justice or whatever.
00:12:54
Speaker
Whatever that was, in that there's actually one particular comic where it focuses on Agent Stone taking advice from Dr Eggman or Dr Robotnik, whatever you want to call him. He tells him how to take over this coffee shop for his maniacal means. I think it's brilliant. The fact that Dr Robotnik had this contingency plan to take over the local Starbucks, I thought, that's amazing.
00:13:19
Speaker
You gotta love that, you gotta admire that. Honestly I thought all the characters pretty much shown in this film. I said this in our first Sonic movie review where I said that film kind of had to walk so that this film could run and I feel as if like this film definitely was sprinted off right away when it started immediately. It was dumping all this lore or rather kind of lore from the games and then kind of piecing it together in the movie universe and I thought it
00:13:48
Speaker
actually did it really well. You know, for example, Gun as well, which was revealed in the trailer. As you said, they're just as incompetent as the games, with of course, got so many references to the games. I've actually got a Sonic 06 reference towards the end. So you guys, I missed this in uniformity. I was like, oh, what? I thought Sonic Month had made me a dedicated, passionate fandom. I'm like, no, clearly not. I'm missing these references.
00:14:13
Speaker
So towards the end of the film we are, and again these aren't major spoilers, but you know, just in case you're still with us, we are, well I wouldn't spoil it too much, but basically Sonic is fighting Eggman at the end and to defeat him. No way! They're not friends!
00:14:31
Speaker
I know. I was shocked at that as well. I wrote a strongly worded letter to competitors. Don't worry, he'll sort this out. For legal reasons, this is a joke. Mr. Penders, please don't sue us. We literally have nothing but panda memes and sandwiches. Please sponsor us. Ever since Adam went off in his tirade at Atari, no one will touch us.
00:14:54
Speaker
Oh god, the amount of people spamming him and saying, I can't remember if he kicked up a fuss about it, because you know, there's a whole thing about him and his love of the Echidna characters and how he had stewardship of everything. And as soon as somebody saw that Knuckles had a dad in this, everyone was like, oh, what's Mr. Pender's going to think of this? He's gonna be mad! It's like, oh.
00:15:20
Speaker
Yeah, sorry, going back to the Sonic 06 reference, there's a bit where he's fighting the robot and he taps his foot on the robot to push it down after he's destroyed it. And at the very beginning of 06, you know when Sonic first appears and he spins around and he destroys all the robots around him, and then he gets to the final one and he taps it with his foot. I don't know how intentional it is, but it does seem as if it's an 06 reference, which if it was intentional, that is pretty awesome.
00:15:52
Speaker
pretty much, yeah. I even looked shafted and in fact no that's a lie. I was gonna say I got shafted in the Sonic Sun finished stream but no they had a moment where they played the music from it and then they quickly moved on. Something as well though that I was a little bit worried about were the human characters and don't get me wrong I will get on to, you know, what I thought
00:16:11
Speaker
about certain human characters but see for the most part I actually thought they were really well integrated into the story because I was a bit worried that in the first one it definitely felt more kind of, as much as I like it, it felt more kind of like the stereotypical road trip films.
Character Integration and Roles
00:16:29
Speaker
You know Alvin and the Chipmunk, Hop, The Smurfs,
00:16:32
Speaker
those kind of live-action shows or rather live-action films where you have the animated protagonist and it's going on a road trip with the main human guy and oh they don't get along but then they work together. I was worried we were going to get bored of that but we really didn't because I did like the fact that Donut Lord, which his name's Tom isn't it? Yeah it's Tom yeah. Yeah it is Tom and Maddie right.
00:16:57
Speaker
Because we did joke about this in the last one, we just called him Do That Lord. But I did like the fact that Tom and Maddie played more of a parental role, because initially in the first one they were his friends, but I did like that kind of shift in dynamic, that they were no longer just friends, they were more his parents and guardians, and I really like that. Of course Eggman as well, Eggman comes back with much gusto, I must say.
00:17:26
Speaker
Do you have something to add? No, I just wanted to add the laugh thing. We're doing laugh. Yeah, I've kind of got mixed things about him, but I'll save that for the negative part.
Agent Stone's Popularity
00:17:37
Speaker
But one other character I do want to point out, and someone we just talked about there, was Agent Stone, which I am actually surprised at how much of a fan favourite he's becoming. He went from this kind of side character who, you know, was just like a lab assistant to Dr. Eggman, to becoming a fool-blowing devotee who's like,
00:17:56
Speaker
you know fantasising about him and everything. I thought that was brilliant. I absolutely loved that bit of his character. What did you think about him? Yeah like I love the kind of layers that they had into the Eggman-Agent Stone relationship. I thought that was just excellent and he was one of the standouts. I thought there was three standouts in the human cast for this live action.
00:18:20
Speaker
The actor Adam Pally, who plays Wade Whipple, who's like the deputy sheriff. He's not in it much, but I thought he was a real scene-stealer when he was in it. He has a couple of great scenes with Agent Stone, I thought they were really funny. And then Rachel, who is Maddie's sister, that's not the main character's sister, played by Natasha Rothwell.
00:18:38
Speaker
I thought she was, she was absolute, I thought she stole this film. She was just, I just was like, I'm absolutely hysterical. Every time she was on the screen, I mean, I thought she was such a great screen presence. So yeah, so the three of them just, the three of them just stole the show from me and I just thought they were excellent.
Wedding and Dance Scene Critiques
00:18:53
Speaker
That was something I find quite interesting because one of the main criticisms of this film, and we will get into it in depth, but one of the criticisms was the wedding scene and the whole wedding setting of the film.
00:19:05
Speaker
where a lot of fans kind of considered it to have gone on for too long and you know while that is probably the case and as I said I want it more in depth than our next part of the episode I have to admit when I went to see this film and I don't know if this was the same for you Adam but there was obviously a lot of children and parents going to this
00:19:26
Speaker
A lot of the parents were laughing a lot more at the wedding scenes and it kind of felt nice that there was something for everyone in this film. There was the sonic hijinks for the kids and there was that.
00:19:41
Speaker
kind of like the wedding siding because I was sitting beside a mum and her wee boy who after a minute the wee boy was quite nice, he kept like getting up every so often and even when some of the characters were dancing like he would be dancing and the mum was whispering frantically, stop that, stop flossing, go back seriously. I kid you not like see when Eggman started flossing, yeah I know spoilers but Eggman flosses in this film, this wee boy sitting beside her just started flossing beside her. The mum was just like
00:20:10
Speaker
stop, stop, sit down. That was quite funny but yeah I thought that was quite interesting that there was something for everyone and the fact that the parents could kind of laugh at those scenes but was it the same kind of experience for you? Yeah definitely I think that's the the mark of a good kind of children's film is a film that kind of has something for everybody you know as you said that's what makes Pixar films so great
00:20:33
Speaker
There's so many great layers to them. There's stuff for children, but there's a lot of stuff for adults as well. And then there's stuff as well that appeals to both age groups. And I like the fact that the Sonic film had that, as you say, in the wedding scene. And perhaps it did go on a touch long. There's definitely some bits I think could have been trimmed ever so slightly. But still, I totally agree that it was good to have that. And we were also actually sat next to a mum and her son. And I've got to say, he was impeccably well behaved, the kid. No racket was caused. Because he was really enjoying the film.
00:21:02
Speaker
and everything and it's really nice to see that because obviously this is a film that is appealing to children and it's nice to have like a film like that that you know kids do get really enthused whether they're just sitting there quietly and all or whether they're getting up there and flossing it is nice to see that but it's nice as well that there is you know they have got material in there for the adults and stuff so it's not it doesn't prove to be too much of an ordeal like some kids films can be
00:21:22
Speaker
I have to admit, it kind of warmed my heart a little bit seeing all these kids going in to see this film because it's weird to think that if you want to hear our full opinions, we do literally have a full month of us talking about Sonic. But it's the fact that Sonic is this 90s character, this kind of product of a completely different age of gaming.
00:21:42
Speaker
where her sole purpose was to be, you know, cool and edgy by 90s standards and be like the anti-mario and everything. But then seeing an interpretation that a new generation can get into, and the kids absolutely loving it, the parents laughing as I said at the wedding scene and things,
00:21:59
Speaker
that some of the references like, you know, Sonic's like hijinks doing like the risky business and, you know, tearing up the place like a child probably would if they were unsupervised because I did notice a lot of parents were kind of laughing and I think one mother like sitting nearby us was going, oh no, you know, the scene at the beginning where Sonic tears up the place and everything, you know.
00:22:21
Speaker
Yeah, I thought that was nice. I don't know, there's just something wholesome about them coming together and just as a family, like they're all enjoying it and everything. And half the amount, even when my girlfriend and I, you know, we were watching it and when we watched the first one together, she was talking about, you know, how cute Sonic looked and like saying the same things, like saying, oh no, you know, he was like blowing things up in the house. He's like, oh no, I have to put this back together and face timing and messing about with the dog and everything.
00:22:49
Speaker
I don't know, it was just a nice kind of experience overall. But moving on from the human characters, before we jump into the negatives and the very meaty parts of this film, what did you think of Team Sonic themselves? That of course being Sonic, Tails and newcomer Knuckles.
00:23:05
Speaker
Well, again, I thought Ben Schwartz did an excellent job. I think he's a really good voice for Sonic. I mean, again, we could argue about where he lists the all-time greats of Sonic voice actors, but I think he's really good. I really like the character. I think he has that nice kind of cocky edge to him, but also, as well, is he able to humanise Sonic effectively? Is it Colleen O'Shaughnessy? I don't want to pronounce her name wrong. Yeah, who voices Tails.
00:23:28
Speaker
She does an excellent job, and she's done quite a few of the games, hasn't she? So you can tell she knows what she's doing, and I think she brings that same kind of energy and that kind of youthful energy to tales that you want to see. Like, you know, the character is trying to prove himself and trying to find his way in the world and carve out a role for himself. I think she does that excellently, but she's so well-versed in it.
00:23:47
Speaker
you know, I didn't really have any worries about her voicing. I was like, I'm pretty sure she'll be, she'll be fine. Idris Elba was a funny one because I remember when I heard that he was voicing Knuckles, I was like, oh, that's not who I would have initially picked. But I was like, OK, but you know, let's see what it's like. I have to say, for about the first half of the film, I didn't really get on board with his rendition of Knuckles. It just felt so different from what I'd seen in the games. I know there's a lot of similarities in how the characters portrayed.
00:24:15
Speaker
But I guess it's just because it was all about such a recognisable voice and it felt so different from what I'd heard before that it didn't quite chime, it didn't quite sound right to me, so I really struggled with that. But by the end of the film and throughout the film's second half, it clicked for me, it all fell into place and I really came to appreciate his knuckles and I thought by the end he was excellent.
00:24:35
Speaker
There's a scene at the end where they're on a baseball field and I thought like just his lines were just great there. And he was just, it was just, it was so much fun to see. And I feel like he really kind of grew into it or it didn't have he so much grew into it, but I just kind of became attuned to it. And so I thought he was, I thought he was excellent by the end. So I think overall like Team Sonic was, they were done perfectly. I've really got no kind of criticisms.
00:24:56
Speaker
No, I totally agree with you on the voice acting front. Ben Schwartz, as you said, great job. Colleen O'Shirnacy, fantastic as tales. I well agree with Knuckles. I did think Idris Elba was very… I do agree. It's like I can just strange one hearing him.
00:25:12
Speaker
because obviously Tails' voice actor hasn't changed from the games to the film, so there's been no kind of transitional period there. And the same with Sonic, he's had one film to establish his voice. So, you know, again, there's not as much kind of jarring changes for his voice. So I think it was kind of just getting used to that. And we get to see like a more kind of serious knuckle. So like, he honestly felt a bit more like, you know, Drax from Guardians of the Galaxy.
00:25:40
Speaker
that kind of no-nonsense, play it by the book, I am with honor kind of thing and that was quite interesting. The only criticism I would say about these three characters is tales. He did play like a really key part in this film but I felt sometimes he was kind of sidelined because definitely Sonic and Knuckles were the poster children for this film. Like it was like a
00:26:04
Speaker
huge battle between sonic and knuckles and tails was kind of just there just like a third wheel almost at times yeah like that's that's a very good point and yeah do you think it would have been better to have for this film maybe just have had tails in it and then maybe knuckles came another one obviously like i mean it is i have seen people say it's maybe a bit too long this film but it's only like about again it's only about two hours and you're still trying to introduce a lot of characters some characters are inevitably going to suffer and i think you're right in tails as tails is one of the casualties of that so do you think it would have been better to
00:26:34
Speaker
to introduce them kind of separately? Probably but there probably would have been a bit more of a risk to do that because you know it's like the first film was a surprise success so they might have thought that by stretching it out to have tails only because that's what I thought I genuinely thought before they announced it it was gonna be Sonic in the first one then Sonic and tails in the second one then in the third one they were gonna introduce Knuckles but as soon as they introduced Knuckles you're kind of like what?
00:27:00
Speaker
not close, what are you doing here? I feel though for what they did, I do agree with you, they did a serviceable job but I think at times there was a lot of mismanagement of the scenes and what I mean by that is like there's a lot of scenes as you said in this film that could have been cut down you know like the wedding scene or there's a particular scene that I will go into more depth about but the dance scene was another scene that was heavily criticized by the fans where Sonic
00:27:29
Speaker
and Tails going to this bar in Serbia, I want to say, and they challenged these people to a dance-off, which very weird to begin with, and I know you have a lot to say about this Adam, but yeah they they do that and I feel as if, see if you took that scene out and then had like an entire sequence where Sonic and Tails were getting to know one another or Tails was kind of showing off a bit more of his
00:27:56
Speaker
skills. You know, he felt more just like a kind of like an intense fanboy at times. I never thought that he came across as creepy or anything, but that's kind of all I mounted to. And I feel as if they could have maybe arranged different scenes for those sections rather than having like a 10 minute dance sequence with out of date music. So yeah, before we go on, while we talk about the dance scene. Let's go. Let's go. We're into it now. Yeah. So what was your take on the dance scene?
00:28:23
Speaker
My take was, okay, I don't too much mind it in concept, but my thing was, why are we using a song that's like seven or eight years old now? I remember an uptown funk came out and it was huge, there's no denying. I don't know if you remember it when it came out, but it was all over the airwaves. It's a great song, I'm not here to criticize a song, but I was just like, I don't know. Maybe this is me just being too pernickety, but I was like, is there not a more recent song that for a start kid, there must be kids who went to see this film who weren't alive.
00:28:53
Speaker
Funk was released over like one year, like we're just born. Is Uptown Funk still like a cultural like ref touchdown? I don't know it's just like why are we using this song? Why not use a more recent one? There must be one out there I mean just because I can't name one that you know it doesn't mean there's not one. There must be songs that are really resonate with like the wide audience that would be far more effective than that one.
00:29:12
Speaker
Do you want to know when Uptown Funk actually came out? Is it 2014? 2014, yeah. Eight years ago. Yeah, that makes me feel old, because I remember when this was everywhere on the radio. To get me wrong, I loved kind of the cute references in that scene where it's like Sonic does the Sonic Adventure pose when he stands in, and I know technically that's probably to establish the duplication thing, or the duplication device that Tails has.
00:29:41
Speaker
which made me actually realise I don't know why Tails didn't use that during the big battle at the end but you know he did once he got into the machine but I feel as if outside of the machine that would have been a hell of a lot more useful but anyway sorry that's nitpicking.
00:29:56
Speaker
Yeah, back to Uptown Funk. It seems like, I do agree, it seems like a weird, weird choice, a song. I just felt as if that scene in particular just wasn't necessary. And I've heard people compare this to Rise of Skywalker, which I think is a bit unfair, where it's like they have to find a MacGuffin to find the ultimate MacGuffin. You know, they have to follow a map to find a compass to find the actual desired object and you're like,
00:30:23
Speaker
I don't agree 100% with that but I see what they mean. It kind of seems weird that you would have a map that goes to a compass that goes to the actual thing. It seemed a bit padded out in that regard but I honestly feel as if in the dance scene they could have done something different to develop Tails' character, maybe tell us a bit more about him because he does, he says like, oh I was bullied for having two tails and everything and
00:30:48
Speaker
That was kind of it. We didn't get to see more of that almost. And don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for a serious biopic and tales getting bullied. But, you know, they could have done something else. But before we move on, because there's another scene that I want to talk about in particular, but is there anything more you want to say about the dance scene?
00:31:06
Speaker
I think, do you know what it felt to me? It felt like a kind of poor imitation of the bar fight from the first film, which was a fun scene and actually, you know, did I think develop, did quite effectively develop the relationship between Donut Lorde and Sonic in the first film. And this one felt like an attempt to duplicate that, but it just didn't, it didn't land. It goes on too long when I'm just sitting there being like,
00:31:34
Speaker
than this. So I don't know why I'm so obsessed with this but it really just bothered me. No no, let it out Adam, you're amongst friends. You do know a charge by day ever, that's why we're making episodes shorter now. Well it's fine, when the Piers Brosnan salary comes in I'll be able to afford you all that money. Ah yes, I mean you sunk all your money into our Latin motto plaque. I know, and paying homage to my speech to Gerald Robotnik's memory. Yeah that was a really expensive speech you got written. Anyway.
00:32:03
Speaker
I shouldn't know how to translate it to so many languages. Yes, it's second behind the Bible, from what I heard. Being on my account for that at least, so that's good. See when you started this review, would you believe that we would have made references to these guys? Do you know what? I always think at some point when we do an episode I'm like, there's a possibility that anything could happen. Pretty much, yeah. It's an unfortunate truth I must say.
00:32:30
Speaker
The one thing I will say before we move on from the dance scene is I honestly do think that this is probably the closest any of these films have come to feeling like, you know, the old school, as I said before, the old school kind of live action films like Alvin and the Chipmunks and all of that where, because I said that to you, it was almost as if I was expected to do that lore to kick down the door and go,
00:32:57
Speaker
and to drag him out and everything. It felt more like a kid's film at that point, because don't get me wrong, the bar scene wasn't violent or anything, but a bar fight in a place like that is believable, at least. It's not that far of a reach to be like, oh, Sonic's pissed off so many people that they're going to fight one another. But this, it was like, what, Serbian dance-offs?
Jim Carrey's Role and Future
00:33:19
Speaker
What? It just felt a bit too far-fetched, and this is coming from a film that has flying, talking hedgehogs.
00:33:26
Speaker
it's just I was kind of like come on it's like everything else fine that I was like I don't know but moving on from that one we've of course got the wedding scene which it definitely could have been like it has entertaining moments but I do agree with the critics I do think it could have been cut down significantly and don't get me wrong I thought the gun reveal was really funny even the priest was like oh look
00:33:53
Speaker
I did laugh, I showed my very aunt when I saw that, that was amazing. But I don't know, I didn't like the fact that they introduced them and then immediately they were all like, bit up and that was it. Yeah, it has, I think what the wedding thing, what I would say is it has a great payoff, I agree. I think it pays off really well, but you're right, it does take a bit too long to get there. It very much meanders and I think this is part of the issue I think with having the human cast still have a quite prominent
00:34:21
Speaker
It keeps on the human cast, the live-action cast, having a prominent role. We need to give time-screen time to James Marsden and to Natasha Rothwell, Tika Sumpter. And the fact that they cast... He's not the most well-known actor, but I sort of recognise him as She-Mar Moore as the fiancé. He's quite famous for a series like this.
00:34:39
Speaker
criminal minds, and I think that SWAT series as well, I don't know if that's still ongoing, but, so he is known. So again, you're gonna have to give him something to do, and you're gonna have to give him screen time. And so it kind of just prolongs and drags out this whole thing more than it really should be, when really what we want to get to is we want to get to the gun reveal, which is the big thing, and it's great, it has done so well, and I totally agree. But then, as you say, it get revealed, and the next thing, Madsy and Rachel are like, just destroying them all, as you say. So it's very, it gets very rushed to that, but maybe it would have been nicer to have drawn that bit out a bit more.
00:35:09
Speaker
I feel as if once they revealed Gunn, they could have just had a scene where they were talking to Sonic and Tails, getting Tails, you know, not fixed, that's the wrong word, but you know, recovering Tails and everything, and used that scene to kind of have more of a conversation and everything, and as much as I thought the character Rachel was really well done on this film, maybe it was a bit much.
00:35:31
Speaker
after the gun review, it did seem a bit much to have her blowing up the sign system, driving a cart towards them. As funny as that was, I was like, at the end of the day, this is a Sonic film, and I'm not saying it had to be 100% Sonic.
00:35:48
Speaker
constantly but it kind of like took away from the film because as this was all going on you know they had the gun commander tied up they had you know they were killing or not killing sorry they were you know beating up all the gun soldiers I'm sitting there looking at my watch thinking huh talk to Robotnik and Knuckles are getting real close to that emerald is no one gonna you know go and stop those
00:36:09
Speaker
or are we just gonna linger at this wedding and it just felt like an unnecessary obstacle because immediately after Maddie gets in she frees them and you're like okay the tension's kind of gone now so it is not a hot take but I do feel as if it kind of overstayed its welcome and I think it was a bad idea for them to show Gunn it's completely incompetent because don't get me wrong
00:36:33
Speaker
It's a kids' film. People with authority who are quote-unquote the bad guys are always going to have incompetent goons and things like that. But keep in mind that in the first film, and this is still one of my favourite kind of running jokes, but the fact that they got Dr Eggman in to stage international coups and things.
00:36:53
Speaker
It was like that sense of realism, if that makes sense, whereas now it's like, oh no, their pratfall went over ice and things. And again, it started to slip into that territory of it was feeling more like a kids film, if that makes sense. Obviously like it is a kids film, but did you feel like that this felt more kind of kiddie compared to the first one?
00:37:15
Speaker
I guess in a way, I mean, I didn't feel like there was a noticeable difference in terms of that. Certainly, maybe this one was something more wacky. I definitely think they definitely upped the kind of craziness and the zaniness of it. So I guess maybe in that sense, yeah, maybe there's a bit more kind of trying to appeal to maybe more kind of like childish sensibilities.
00:37:34
Speaker
I tell you, the big problem I had with the wedding scene was I felt like they teased. I felt like they teased that there was going to be like a... because after they capture, they capture Sonic and Tails, the gun commander, I'm sure, said something like, I'll bring the helicopter and we'll get them out. I was like, oh my God, are we going to see Citi escape here? And I was getting all excited that we didn't see Citi escape. And I was like, oh man, that's terrible. A terrible... I don't know if that was deliberate, but I was like, man, what a tease.
00:37:56
Speaker
Apparently on the helicopter at the very, you know, the finale, they've actually got AC2 on it. Oh really? Yeah, apparently, yeah. So yeah, it kind of like, after that I missed it as well, but there was reason online that was like, huh, neat.
00:38:09
Speaker
there you go. I know what you mean though, there was a lot of moments where it was kind of, I guess, missed opportunities. Like, going back to what you were saying about this film being more wacky, I'm honestly a bit conflicted and I might be in the minority here, so see if I die after this episode gets published, scatter my ashes in San Francisco. Yes, that's a city escape reference for anyone else. Do I have to jump down the helicopter world? I would expect nothing less. You know, I'm questioning your commitment to the podcast.
00:38:39
Speaker
How am I going to have time for this and convincing Pierce Brosnan to play Geordie Botany? Come on. Time management man. Come on.
00:38:46
Speaker
I'm just one man. So yeah, going back to my very possibly warm take, I don't know how I feel about Robotnik in this film. In the first one, I thought he was kind of perfect, you know, that perfect blend between maniacal and cunning. And this film he was manic, and you could tell that Jim Carrey was having a lot of fun with the character, but I felt as if at times he was almost too manic.
00:39:11
Speaker
if that makes sense, he was just spouting out pop culture references. Because obviously, you know, Sonic is the one who you'll go around, you'll start making jokes and things, and he gets a bit kind of too much with that. But, you know, he had Eggman flossing, he had him making Wizard of Oz references and things. Sometimes it was absolutely fantastic, but then other times you were just kind of like,
00:39:34
Speaker
He was a bit much, but I did like him when he finally absorbed the master emerald. I did think that was a really cool transition. I thought the art direction in this was absolutely fantastic. I really loved what they did with the master emerald and having the chaos emeralds inside them. I thought that was a really clever way to adapt it into the films rather than having them separate. I loved the backstory between the echidnas and the evils and the artwork done for that. That was
00:40:04
Speaker
beautiful. Sorry, that was just a side tangent because of the eyes we crossed the Rubicon up, all sorts of comments here. But going back to Robotnik, what did you think of him? Yeah, I'm not really a fan. I'm not really a fan of Jim Carrey's portrayal. You know, in fact, I think it does work to an extent for these films because they are, you know, they are trying to be a bit more kind of wacky and crazy. I guess maybe you'll be able to say with more authority if this is true or not, but it feels like Jim Carrey's version of Eggman is
00:40:31
Speaker
a little bit more kind of in keeping with what he's been in the recent games, in that more kind of... I mean, again, Jim Carrey is playing it kind of up to 11, you know, turned up to 11, but he does feel like more of a kind of wacky, less maniacal character than he has been. I feel Jim Carrey is one of these people that is a bit of a Marmite character. I feel like you either really like what he does, or you really just don't.
00:40:53
Speaker
And, you know, he has done varied roles, like he has done more subdued roles, but he's obviously very well known for his kind of full-on, you know, high-energy, zany, wacky characters, like the Riddler in Batman Forever, things like Ace Ventura, things like that. I think, you know what, do you know the reason I think I don't really like him in this film?
00:41:11
Speaker
is that, and I blame you for this Satsunami, but you've really shown me how great Eggman is in the adventure games, with that being such a maniacal and calculating character. This just feels so far removed from that, that I just, it doesn't, I don't know, I just don't like it, it doesn't resonate with me, and it's not something that I'm a particular fan of. But it does work for people, I mean, my fiancé, he's not really a Sonic fan or well-versed at all, in the Sonic universe,
00:41:37
Speaker
despite my best efforts. One day. One of these days. She really likes Jim Carrey anyway. She really liked him in this film. She was glad to be able to see him. She kind of didn't like in the last film that he was kind of being felt like he was being held back a bit. She liked that he was kind of just able to like, you know, go full on crazy in this one. So it is working for people. It's just, again, maybe a personal thing. It just didn't work for me. Yeah, I feel as if if you're not like a fan of Sonic and you're just taking them as like a villain who's going like
00:42:02
Speaker
mental when he's come back. And as you said, that was one of the kind of critiques that a lot of people had that he was more subdued in the first film. And then in the second one, he becomes kind of like The Mask slash Ace Ventura, Jim Carrey, you know, with his absolute wacky, he's got all these puns and everything. But if you're comparing him to Eggman, and I do apologize for ruining that,
00:42:26
Speaker
for you. As I said before in our Sonic Month episodes, I am an absolute huge fan of the Adventure series and I absolutely love his Eggman's portrayal in those games because he's just the right amount of serious cunning, maniacal, he's like a genuine villain.
00:42:47
Speaker
not overly like he's not so far gone that you know you think oh he's edgy serious like he's still got a kind of modicum of restraint but bringing in an actor like Jim Carrey does not flesh with that portrayal is
00:43:02
Speaker
it's a bit like Ben Schwartz, because on the other side, you know, Ben Schwartz does his own thing with Sonic, just as Ryan Drummond, Jason Griffith, the way Roger Craig Smith gave his own portrayal. Every actor, whether it be voice actor or actual actor, is gonna give their own take.
00:43:18
Speaker
And I do agree. Personally, K. Ray AS rebutting didn't do it 100% for me. As a villain in his own right, it was absolutely fantastic, it was a lot of fun to watch, but there were some moments where it just didn't gel with me. Like, for example, see the very ending when he finally gets defeated and he's falling to the earth and he yells later haters and that's his last line. I really didn't like that, I gotta say.
00:43:42
Speaker
Yeah, it doesn't feel like a robotic line, does it? No, not really. It feels more like, I don't even know, it feels more like something sonic would say. Yeah, it much more feels like that. It's interesting as well, because I don't know if you've seen this or not, but Jim Carrey recently retired from acting, and I was reading that apparently, well first of all, Jim Carrey released this announcement on April Fool's Day.
00:44:05
Speaker
So I don't know whether this is the classic April Fool, or whether this is like the perfect day for a comedian to turn out their retirement as April Fool. I can't make my mind up, so I guess we'll have to see. But I did see that the producers said that if he does stay, does stay retired, they're not going to recast the role of Eggman. I don't know, I find that weird because I can't imagine a Sonic game or film without Eggman in it, because there's definitely not been a mainline main series game that hasn't had Eggman.
00:44:32
Speaker
And, you know, if Jim Carrey wants to retire, that's completely his decision and respect that. But, you know, I think it's a bit of a mistake for the producers not to consider recasting, because you could totally, you could totally get somebody else. And, you know, Eggman can look completely different. You know, he could look maybe a bit more like he looks in the kind of games and stuff, and you could just have a new actor and whatever. I don't know. The Master of Emerald has changed him or whatever. I don't know. It just feels like a mistake not to just to kind of let that role kind of retire with Jim Carrey. I don't know what you feel about it. If it is real, are you ready for my prediction for this?
00:45:02
Speaker
god I feel like one of these comic book predictors where it's like oh we saw like point one of a pixel of this particular thing and if we zoom into this you know we're gonna get this but if this is true and Jim Carrey does retire from acting this isn't kind of the first time that we've not had Robotnik as kind of the main figure so if you go back to things like Sonic
00:45:27
Speaker
Well, technically it's called Sonic the Hedgehog. I keep referring to Sonic's Hat A.M. but for the sake of brevity, Sonic's Hat A.M. kind of focused on Sonic and his freedom fighter friends fighting against Robotnik. But in that show, he had a sidekick called Snivelick and
00:45:44
Speaker
I think it's snivelly or snivelly, something like that. But what ended up happening at the end of that show before it got cancelled on the cliffhanger I had is that Robotnik gets defeated and his aid actually takes the mantle of becoming the next villain with
Potential New Villains
00:45:59
Speaker
the creepy cape and everything. And then of course the show got cancelled. And even in the Anissa's
00:46:05
Speaker
being an absolute nerd so I apologise but in the new Sonic IDW comics there is a platypus called Dr. Starling who is like a massive Dr. Eggman fanatic and they follows him and after the events of a particular storyline he follows it.
00:46:21
Speaker
favor with him, so he decides to do his own thing. In Sonic Media, there's loads of other examples, but in Sonic Media, it's not unheard of to move the focus away from Eggman. Look at Shadow the Hedgehog, or the Black Arms with the main antagonist in that one.
00:46:37
Speaker
an Eggman was kind of sidelined, but in terms of kind of the canon universe, my kind of prediction would be that it would be Agent Stone that takes the mantle, that it might be kind of shifting the focus to him to take up the role of Eggman, maybe not to the same, you know, maniacal extent he's not going to dress maybe as Eggman,
00:46:58
Speaker
but I feel with Jim Carrey does quit acting and you know like they don't recast Rebotnik. I feel as if that's one of the directions they could go. The other direction of course would be that they don't bring him back but they bring Shadow in as the villain which you know again we'll get to that point that they'll bring in you know other characters like Shadow, Metal Sonic could be one you know like other characters in to be the villains and take that kind of placeholder because
00:47:26
Speaker
As you know, there's going to be a Knuckles series on Paramount Plus, which, yeah, they've got a great track record with their Halo franchise right now. Paramount, please sponsor us. If you'll talk good about your show, I swear. Yeah, sorry, that's another episode for another time, but yeah, I get the feeling that for the Knuckles show, they're probably going to focus on other characters, either made up or otherwise in the lore, but not kind of included, if that makes sense.
00:47:54
Speaker
Well, funny you should mention that, they actually get a cameo in the prequel comic. Oh really? Knuckles goes to this, I don't think by his own will, but he goes to this casinoopolis planet, or zone or whatever they call it, and in the background the Chaotix are there, gambling and losing all the money.
00:48:11
Speaker
I honestly thought that was such a neat touch. I was like, that is really cool. So that kind of establishes that officially the Chaotix are somewhere out there, which I thought was brilliant. But what are your thoughts on it? Because sorry I kind of rambled and, you know, I'll take off my tinfoil hat now, but what are your kind of thoughts on that Sonic franchise without Robotnik?
00:48:31
Speaker
I'm glad to have heard you say that because that has made me realise that it is possible. I guess maybe it's just from what I've played with the Sonic games, Eggman is so integral to every kind of thing. I couldn't envisage a mainline Sonic story without him, but it's interesting to hear you talk about the kind of different things they've done. If you talk about the Agent Stone thing, I think it's really intriguing and I think you'll likely be proved right on that. I think that they are going to elevate him and I think people would be pleased with that because he does seem to
00:49:00
Speaker
bit of a fan favorite.
00:49:05
Speaker
I probably said that wrong, but I think he's great. So I'd totally be in favor of that I can't help but feel like you know if Jim Carrey does retire They should reek and they may end up they may end up deciding to do that So, you know, this doesn't have to be a set in stone decision But I do perhaps think they should maybe leave the possibility of Eggman coming back because just because I just cuz I don't know I feel like he's so integral to like the kind of sonic and the sonic universe But you know, it is it's encouraging. It's interesting to hear different ways it could go So that's made me a bit more like a bit more hopeful
00:49:34
Speaker
Hopefully it all goes well. I didn't have a strong opinion on Agent Stone when I first watched the first film. I thought he was an entertaining enough character but I kind of thought he was just there. And then when this film came along and they kind of promoted him a little bit.
00:49:50
Speaker
it was actually really fun to watch him like express himself more, you know, go into his own element. So he's definitely established himself and I think that is a positive in this film that a lot of the characters do have kind of breathing space to develop themselves for the most part, other than, you know, a couple of exceptions. So it is kind of setting up for, you know, if an actor does leave, then, you know, they can fill the gap.
00:50:16
Speaker
I see what you mean though about Robotnik. Robotnik is like Sherlock and Moriarty, or I don't know, Mario on Bowser, you know, it's probably a better one. It's that kind of traditional rivalry. So you do expect Robotnik to be there, so I can totally see why you would be kind of concerned that he isn't there in the future. Can I point out one particular gripe I do have with this logo?
00:50:39
Speaker
Right, so I was talking to you
Music and Fan Service
00:50:41
Speaker
earlier about the music of this film, and as good as the music is, with the exception of Uptown Funk which is a classic but probably doesn't fit the song, I was surprised at a severe lack of sonic music in this film.
00:50:55
Speaker
That would be, I love how in sync we are tonight, that would also be my big criticism of the film. I'm gonna be honest, I cannot remember a single piece of music, apart from Uptown Funk, I can't remember a single piece of music in this film. I don't think it's bad, I don't think the soundtrack's bad, but it just, I do remember you sitting there being like, there are so many opportunities here.
00:51:15
Speaker
Again, maybe I don't know the kind of legal issues with using these songs, and I don't know how easy it is, but setting that to one side. I remember sitting there and being like, there's a snowboarding scene with Sonic, and I'm like, wouldn't this be great to put some kind of remix adventure music in here?
00:51:31
Speaker
or when Eggman kind of builds his giant robot at the end. I'm like, wouldn't it be awesome to hear a bit of a strain of like, something like, I am the Eggman. Wouldn't that just be the perfect time to unleash something like that and just this film is filled with fanservice, but like do a bit more and like the music is so great from the Sonic series that it almost feels criminal that they're not using it. And again, I don't know what the, you know, the background, I don't know how easy it is to use. You know, I don't know who owns what and writes and everything where it is, but
00:51:57
Speaker
it really feels like such a missed opportunity. And also as well, the fact that when Sonic is drowning, I was like, how are we not playing the duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh? How are we not giving old Sonic fans in the theatre a collective heart attack at this moment? It just feels like a missed opportunity. Well, one thing I will say about that scene is apparently that
00:52:16
Speaker
technically is in the film but it's like a kind of more subtle like they put a couple of notes in the song that plays over that scene but they do like have a couple of notes that allude to that they don't do it overtly but there's a couple of subtle notes to that song which I have to admit I completely missed it as well I would say like I'd have to go back and listen to it again you know any excuse to go watch this film again
00:52:40
Speaker
Yeah, apparently there is, but I totally agree. See, this is the thing I don't get, because as you said, you know, legally it's kind of ambiguous, but at the same time, like, Crush 40 was brought back for the Sonic Symphony, 30th celebration last year, I want to say. And I'm kind of surprised that, you know, they're bringing back, like, Crush 40, they're bringing back all these amazing artists and things, and yet somehow they weren't incorporating it into the film. Again,
00:53:08
Speaker
if it's a copyright issue or whatever I can understand, but because you were saying about the snowboarding thing like that could have been Sonic Adventure. I mean that even goes as far back to Sonic 3 and Knuckles and you know there's music from that they could have put in or you know there's just so much they could have done with the soundtrack.
00:53:25
Speaker
and it just felt kind of generic and bland at times, other times it was actually okay but I mean the fact at the end we didn't have open your heart or something like that because I know and I hope, this is kind of my prediction for the future, I hope to God that they play Live and Learn in Sonic 3. I genuinely hope they play it if they don't, it would be criminal.
00:53:48
Speaker
Because considering the reveal at the end, it would be criminal if they didn't put that in. Instead, we got a dramatic version of Uptown Funk as their battle in the final hazard. I would be raging. So you know that there's all the urban myths about Michael Jackson's involvement with Sonic 3? Are we going to find out later on there's going to be tons of rumors about Bruno Mars' involvement with Sonic the Hedgehog movie music?
00:54:12
Speaker
They had to redo it all at the last minute for whatever reason. What is he in bed with like the Paramount executive? They're all together in one giant bed. Bruno Mars, the Paramount executives, J.O.R. Robotnik, everybody's here. Fierce Brosnan, everybody's in there. There's a big old sleepover.
00:54:31
Speaker
Do you know what kind of seals it for me though? It's a video I sent you on YouTube and for anyone listening you can feel free to go and look it up. But it's a video of somebody's edited the Sonic Adventure sounds over the first film and that is
00:54:48
Speaker
amazing how much it works. My favourite moment is when Eggman's introduced and they play his theme from the first Sonic Adventure game as the truck comes in and the stairs come down and he comes out, you know, standing proud. I think it really works.
00:55:05
Speaker
And that's the thing as well because the Eggman song you were talking about just a couple minutes ago there, Adam, that's quite possibly the peak of Eggman's ego, just maniacal nature. The whole song is just, if you look at the lyrics, it's just basically the singer saying, I am the Eggman. That's what I am. I am the Eggman. I've got the master plan. And you know, it's this big bombastic, basically pop rock, essentially. But it's just
00:55:55
Speaker
so well done and that would have fit a lot better with Eggman and things.
00:56:00
Speaker
right over the edge, you know, as we right at the peak. But it's just a shame that we didn't have that. What can you do, I suppose? Well at least with the first film, you could have at least accepted that, oh it's the first film of the franchise, they want to play it safe, they don't want too many kind of fan moments, you know. But with this one, as you said, they go all out with the fan service, so why not just put that in, but you know, as I said, fingers crossed that for the third film, that's what they're gonna do. Please, Sega, or Paramount, whoever owns it, please.
00:56:30
Speaker
I just want to hear live and learn on the big screen, okay? I don't want some like 420p fan edit on YouTube. See if they don't. I will be sad. But anyway sorry, my man child tears aside. Let's go on to the finale. Let's talk about the finale before we wrap up.
00:56:46
Speaker
There are two particular moments that I want to touch on, that of course being the ultimate transformation of Sonic into Super Sonic and the reveal of Shadow the Hedgehog at the end. So let's start with Super Sonic. How did you feel about that scene? I really liked it. I mean, I kind of been wondering what I saw. I don't think the Chaos Emeralds are explicitly mentioned until
00:57:09
Speaker
Is it maybe halfway through? I think when they get to the, when they reach the end, the Statue of Long Claw and they find the compass, I think it's then revealed that the Chaos Emeralds have been like joined together to make the Master Emeralds. You know, I, you kind of did note, I think there's a couple of references you can kind of see the Chaos Emeralds around the edge of the map, I think maybe.
00:57:24
Speaker
So I wasn't trying to say, oh, it's called the Chaos. I was like, well, I wonder if they, you know, supersonic will kind of show up. But it was, I thought it was really cool when he came out. And then when I saw the Chaos, I mean, I think you know, if you know the Sonic kind of universe and the bit about the games, a bit about the lore, you can kind of tell what's going to happen. Especially the end of that fight, when all the Chaos Emeralds are there, you know, Mass Emeralds shattered, all the Chaos Emeralds are there and they're next to Sonic. I was like, right, okay, I can plop this
00:57:49
Speaker
out now I know exactly what's gonna happen and it did you know so it wasn't a surprise but I still thought it was really well done I thought it was a great another little bit of fan service yeah so I thought it was well done
00:58:00
Speaker
After a minute, I was wondering when they had the Master Emerald, because that's the whole thing. They're like, oh, we've got to find the Master Emerald. And I thought, OK, they're going to focus on the Master Emerald in this one. And then maybe in the sequel, they're going to go after the Chaos Emerald. But as soon as I saw the long closed descendants and everything were guarding
00:58:20
Speaker
the Master Time Road is a vessel for the Chaos Emeralds, which in the lore and everything, and this is where I push up on their glasses, but in the lore that is essentially what the Master Time Road is. It's like a negator almost for the Chaos Emeralds. It's like the controller of them and everything. And if you don't believe me, please check out Sonic Adventure. Not even for the lore reasons, it's just a great game. But moving that aside,
00:58:44
Speaker
I love the fact it was basically just a cosmic lunchbox for all of these chaos emeralds. When it shattered and you saw the colourless emeralds, I thought, oh my god, we're gonna get it, because I genuinely didn't expect it. I half expected it, especially when people were saying no spoilers, so I was like, okay, we're probably gonna get super sonic.
00:59:06
Speaker
when we did. I don't know it just, I didn't really know what to feel. In a good way, I was just like, oh my god it's actually super cylindrical and everything. And even when Eggman was controlled by the Emerald it was like, eh, yeah, it's quite cool. Like I liked the fact he was coming out and he had all these god-like powers and then Knuckles punches the Emerald out of him literally.
00:59:27
Speaker
I thought that was funny but yeah when Sonic gets it and you know it's like oh all hopes are lost and it's like obviously it's a kids film they're not gonna kill Sonic the Hedgehog this isn't the Sonic O'Sick's reboot I mean not there yet yeah we're not there yet maybe one day maybe one day when the franchise is wrapping up
00:59:45
Speaker
or Uwe Boll gets his hands on it, but can you imagine that Uwe Boll saw a little sex in it? Oh god, please. I don't want to see Christian Slater play the shadow of Edge. No offence to Christian Slater, I'm sure. I think he's had a bit of a recurring revival, so that was unfair, I do apologise. I mean, fortunately him and Pierce Brosnan don't listen to this podcast. I don't want Tower of Reader's Rouge there, it's the one that they actually do.
01:00:09
Speaker
Is that your bottom line? Yeah, that's all I want, but I just don't want Tara. I mean, no offence Tara Reid. I'm not saying that she doesn't have to act, but just don't want her to play Rouge. Yes, and on that note of seconding it. But yeah, I thought Super Sonic was actually really well done, but how did you feel about it?
01:00:24
Speaker
Yeah, no, I really liked it. I thought it was a cool reveal. I'm kind of glad. I mean, this kind of applies to the film as a whole. I'm kind of glad that we did Sonic Month in between the first and second Sonic films, because I think I got a lot more from this film knowing more about the characters and more about the universe. And again, I don't think that not having that knowledge would be a huge detriment, but maybe it would be a little bit confusing what all of a sudden happened.
01:00:54
Speaker
I kind of enjoyed it more. I have to admit, I did really laugh when it was coming out the cinema because when they did the whole shadow reveal, my girlfriend and I were coming out the cinema and as we were walking to the car, we overheard this mum talking to our wee boy. The mum was like, I'm assuming she was probably interrogating her child for Christmas present or birthday present ideas because she was like, oh shadow, is he a new character?
01:01:21
Speaker
I kid you not, like the wee boy, bless him, he was just trying to explain and he was using all these like really weird, probably what he thinks are complicated words but they just made no sense in the context of how he was trying to explain. And do you know what it reminded me of? You know the very beginning of Sonic Adventure when Chaos appears and Sonic is like, you know, he goes, hey you big drip, where you going? You know, he looks down and Eggman's standing on the roof and he's like, you know nothing fool, it's Chaos, the god,
01:01:51
Speaker
Not gonna lie, that's kind of a little bit of how I felt in that moment. Obviously, being the responsible adult I am, I didn't turn round and say that to a random woman in their child. You know nothing, Volo. Her shadow, the ultimate life form. And then a couple of days later again.
01:02:10
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. That's the real reason why the Chatsunami schedule has been a bit frantic just now. The Red Panda lawyer has been working furiously. He has been. I'm looking at him in the corner right now and he's just like shaking his head. It's just like, nope. Adjusting his waistcoat furiously. Well, we talk about it though. Not my poor choices of life. I mean, shadow the headshot. Well, let's do it. It's been building to
Exciting Future Storylines
01:02:31
Speaker
this.
01:02:31
Speaker
I have to admit, I did laugh when you sent me. You didn't spoil it, but you did say there is a moment in this that you are going to absolutely be delighted about. And I was like, oh, is it going to be terrible? Is it going to be beating the dynamite? Is it going to be? And then, of course, I did watch that scene and, oh, as soon as I heard the words 50 years ago, my, like, inner child just squeed with joy. I was just like, did you know that way? It's like, you know that meme of, is it Vince McMahon and
01:03:00
Speaker
Yeah, Vincent Mann, yeah. Vincent Mann, sorry. Yeah, it was that meme of like Vincent Mann where, you know, he's getting more and more excited about something. And it was like, sure, we found some files and I sit up and I go, hmm? It's like 50 years ago, hmm? Some kind of bass, hmm? And this is a, you know, the capsule rises, I'm like, hmm?
01:03:20
Speaker
And then it's, you know, when he leans back in the chair and his eyes roll back, I was like, oh my god, it's shadow. Of course, I kept a calm exterior, but my interior was just like, this is the best night ever. And of course, my girlfriend being not as much a Sonic fan just looked at me as a yokie. And I was just like, I've never been so happy. Like, it's so good.
01:03:43
Speaker
Out of curiosity, because you just said there, you know, before you saw this all, you weren't really as much into Sonic until... A certain month happened. Yeah, a certain month happened where I forcibly took you through the games. As someone who, you know, has been officially inducted into the fandom, you still need to make an OC and then you're, you know, official. But how did you feel about this scene?
01:04:07
Speaker
I really liked it. I thought it was an excellent reveal. And I'm glad it was just that flash at the end. And I thought it was well done. And as you say, I think they do build it quite well. As you say, kind of lead in the clues to make you be like, oh, oh, you know, just that way. I thought it was excellent.
01:04:22
Speaker
I look forward to seeing what they do with Shadow. I mean, my hope, going ahead with the Sonic films, is that they're really going to lessen down the live-action cast. I don't mind if James Marsden and Tika Sontoso make one of the cameos and stuff in the later films, but I do hope that if this film series keeps going
01:04:39
Speaker
that will be much more focused on, you know, the Sonic, on Team Sonic, and whoever else, you know, Shadow, like, the chaos that's come, whoever it is, much more on those characters. So I think it's a really, I think it was a really, it was a really cool note to leave off on the film, and I think it makes me kind of excited for what they're going to do next, and hopefully they'll do Shadow justice.
01:04:58
Speaker
that is my only worry about having shadow in the series now because on the one hand yeah it's fantastic that we've got shadow now officially in the sonic movie um universe it's gonna be awesome to see him in action but the thing i'm wondering is
01:05:15
Speaker
How were they going to adapt him? Because let's face it, Shadow's story, as we talked in depth about, is quite a complicated one. He was raised in a space station, he was created by aliens, let's ignore that bit for the moment.
01:05:30
Speaker
but he is this character that witnessed a terrible tragedy. You know, his friend was shot in front of him, and with her dying breath she managed to save him, and that is his whole character arc. I'm just wondering how they're going to adapt that, because obviously they're going to have to tone it down. They can't have, you know, Sonic 3. Get your Happy Meal with Maria Robotnik getting shot in the face.
01:05:55
Speaker
Is it terrible that I really want that to be a toy? You know how you go in the cinema, you get like, they have those commemorative cups, and they're usually like, there's quite a few now that have like, Batman on the top of them, they're like, I just want a picture of like, dying Maria. What a model of that covered by commemorative Sonic 3 cups. I think there's quite an easy solution for this. I think if you raise the age of Maria, so I don't know, she's a teenager or like, you know, past 20, then I think you'd find for her to be shot.
01:06:23
Speaker
I'm just kidding. I think that's the limit. I think that's acceptable. America, everybody. Yeah, that is actually something I was actually thinking. To see, like, the more I thought about this film and I thought how, you know, the introducer's gun as this is relatively contemporary organisation. I thought, wait a minute. So if they go with the media storyline and the introducer into the film,
01:06:47
Speaker
Huh. It wasn't gun that short. And I'm like, why'd you govern with that short, Maria? So is this going to be a like, who shot Mr Burns? But instead, hashtag who shot Maria? I'm putting the blame on the Reagan administration. Seems like a thing that would happen then. If you're a mopnik, tear down the final hazard. I would watch that film. I'm not going to laugh. I love that. Joe Robotnik and Ronald Reagan fighting in space. Do it now.
01:07:12
Speaker
It's just like your moonraker. Yeah, Raisley is my moonraker. I want Piers Brosnan to be the children of hot naked. I don't know. Then Kingsley's to be. I don't know who else.
01:07:23
Speaker
I actually thought you were going to say, you know, in Star Wars, they get Admiral Tarkin. I was like, Grand Moff Tarkin is like the horrible CG. Yes, that's even better. CG by Ronald Reagan. Reagan in the final hazard. I love it. I mean, we have played in College of the Cold War. We can see how realistic it looks. That's great. And they have the voice down. Yeah. So we've got the assets there. So does that mean Ronald Reagan ordered a hit in Gerald Robotnik? It could be Ronald Reagan's final and greatest acting.
01:07:57
Speaker
See, of all the tangents in this episode, do we really bring Ronald Reagan, like authorizing the shitting of space children, and that's what we did indeed? Ah, slap that in the happy. It's happy. Marie is dead.
01:08:15
Speaker
So our fan theories aside, what are your hopes for the sequel going forward? As I say, I don't think I have a complete like, I want to see this exact thing. What I would say is I obviously hope they keep doing these characters justice and any new ones they introduce. But as well, I really do would like to see them focus much more on the animated characters and on Team Sonic and the like. We can lessen down, we can very much cut down
01:08:45
Speaker
I think the live-action cast and just you know have some do cameos whatever, you know Have what agent stone or whatever maybe have a bigger role? That's fine But really look I think the time is right now to focus on the animated characters and really make them the sole focus and you know Keep you know keep kind of drawing from the games because there's a wealth of actors in the games the comics the TV shows because there's a wealth of them a wealth of material out there and some great stories
01:09:11
Speaker
keep the fan service going, please bring in the music. That's the one thing, please start incorporating the music because that's what this, I think, feel like that's what this series is really missing so far. I feel like it's the one missing piece to like really tie it all together in this kind of perfect package. We just want to see 11 learned in live action.
01:09:28
Speaker
much to ask. Answer us, you coward. Oh no, our tweets are useless. Fall back. I honestly hope that I do agree with you in terms of the cutting back the human cast, or as you said, the live action cast. It feels as if they're getting less relevant now, which to me personally I feel is if that's a good thing, but then there's a kind of
01:09:51
Speaker
Maybe there might be a worry in Paramount, like as I said, I'm not like an expert marketing or anything, I'm just a humble Sonic fan, but I feel as if they include too much Sonic-ness, if that makes sense, then it might alienate broader audiences, and I don't know how much fan service they're going to try and balance versus
01:10:12
Speaker
you know having a story that everybody can enjoy because as I said the worst bits for me personally were the bits that didn't really relate to Sonic or kind of went on for too long but for example as I said the wedding scene there were loads of adults that enjoyed that so I doubt they're gonna take it away a hundred percent but I feel as if they're gonna make them a bit more goofier with no longer after US military we have.
01:10:38
Speaker
gun. Oh Jesus I can't believe I'm saying that but yeah we have gun now. If they are gonna adapt Shadow Story, I hope they take a leaf out of Sonic Adventure 2. It's gonna be interesting because you know what my main fear is, I hope to god that if they do this they won't adapt Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 together. That's a lot.
01:11:00
Speaker
That is a worry, because I feel as if they're really going to be like both the walkways, they would have chaos as the main villain instead of the final hazard, or the bio lizard, which I hope that's not the direction to go in. There's no evidence to support that, by the way, I'm just like throwing that out, but if they did, I feel as if that would be a major mistake.
01:11:22
Speaker
but I just want to say the bio wizard. One thing I want to point out, sorry, just I don't want to end on a negative note, but one thing I would say going forward is I think, and I don't know how you feel about this, but I feel as if this film gave away far too much in the trailer. But did you feel as if it was a bit too, it gave away the best bits of the film too
Trailer Spoilers Discussion
01:11:43
Speaker
early?
01:11:43
Speaker
definitely I feel like that's just a problem with trailers now I feel that they really do they are like so concerned you know about getting people in getting like bums and seats and everything that they do just they don't really care they don't really care so much about you know leaving surprises they just want to draw people in and so they just cram all the kind of best bits in and it does take away certainly so yeah yeah no I agree I agree but again I just I think I'm just cynical about I think it's just a Hollywood thing now it's
01:12:13
Speaker
it however we can. I mean, maybe, yeah, I think you're right, I think that's probably more a film in Phoba rather than like a Sonic issue, but I don't know, maybe I'm to blame for, you know, watching so much of it, but I felt as if whenever you saw it, you know, it showed you the Death Egg robot, it showed you Eggman actually getting the emerald, using those powers, it showed you Sonic fighting Knuckles twice and everything, it just showed a bit too much.
01:12:41
Speaker
and I honestly thought the wedding scene was going to be like quite early on, like maybe in the first act but then we had to be like a whole two acts before it came to be concluded and you're like okay but I've already seen this in the trailer I know what's going to happen I know there's no tension for Tom to find the rings because I've seen them throw the ring so it's like oh well.
01:13:00
Speaker
But yeah, hopefully going forward, they'll maybe be a bit more scarce, but again, that's not against the film itself, it's probably more against Hollywood being Hollywood,
Viewer Engagement and Recommendations
01:13:11
Speaker
as it were. But honestly, if I could say one last thing just about the film in general, if you haven't seen it, then while you're listening to this review, please go watch it.
01:13:19
Speaker
But if you have watched it, please let us know what you think of it. Because, honestly, if you want to contact us through our website, chat tsunami, or you want to DM me on Twitter, or you want to tweet at us, then yeah, please do let us know what you think about it. But Adam, do you have any final comments about the film?
01:13:41
Speaker
I'd just say this film's a lot of fun. Like the first film, it's a lot of fun. There's lots of laughs to be had. There's great action. You know, the characters are fun. And so yeah, I would recommend seeing it. It's just a lot of fun. It's a fun way to spend a couple hours. You can do far worse things. So I'd recommend go see it.
01:14:02
Speaker
Don't worry guys, because we will... Yeah, hopefully next week we will be going on to something a bit more different. I feel as if this is kind of the perfect, like, last episode for kind of sonic topics. Not forever. We're not doing a Shadow the Hedgehog. Yeah. Whereas, like, I guess we were wrong about those Chatsunami people. Let us pay homage to the Chatsunami podcast. Wait a minute, I found some notes here. So, 15 years ago, it looked like you guys hadn't agreed to play Gerald Robot.
01:14:31
Speaker
I've got a signature on everything. Oh my God. Ah, we can all dream. We can all dream. Mr Brosnan. That you are, wasn't he? Yeah, please get back to us. Let us know what you think. Imagine this happens. If this happens, I am going to take the recording with this episode and distribute it like some crazy tin foil hat conspiracy theorist. I mean, to be fair, we do have a year for this to happen. I'm going to demand a
01:14:59
Speaker
first one. We need, yeah, we need this like, sorry, it's just like a mental image of you outside Paramount Studios, just like, give us a journal robotic, God. God. I know I've brought this up before, but it's like, you know that meme of like, the girl crying? It's like, please Adam, don't go to try and get your cut of
Crossover Speculations and Closing
01:15:21
Speaker
the film. And it's just you with the chant face, God. I must do this to honour journal robotic. I love when we make political commentary, but through
01:15:31
Speaker
It's the only way nowadays. I feel as if every single other avenue of commentary has been taken and redundant. It's like interpretive dance.
01:15:48
Speaker
But not so much for us, more for terrible takes. On that note, thank you Adam for subjecting yourself to the foul. And yeah, thank you for coming on this episode. No, you're more than welcome. I had an absolute blast watching it. And yeah, I'm glad that I was able to get a bit more well-versed before going into it. I think it really helped. It really helped me enjoy it. So it was my pleasure to watch it.
01:16:11
Speaker
and honestly guys if you're a sonic fan there will definitely be something here for you and if you're not well i think you'll still enjoy it for what it is unless you're the new yorker i think it was the new york post who said that sonic has nowhere to go from this one but again you know different strokes for different folks let me tell you about a girl called maria yeah maria is the key to all of this if you get maria robotic like let's get this trending hashtag maria and the sonic
01:16:40
Speaker
Okay, this is my only caveat before we finish. Maria Robotnik, if the only way she can speak is if she sings Abba songs. I love it. We've seen him do it. We've seen Piers Rosen do it. It's true. He has great range, that, man. Do you know what? Why isn't this the Sonic 3 film? This is my new conspiracy, okay? Sonic has two films. Mamma Mia has two films. What if we cross the two together?
01:17:07
Speaker
mama maria oh my god get on the parma right now i hope they own the mama mia rights if this if this happens i will literally i think i'll just ascend to heaven
01:17:24
Speaker
the end for me. Breaking news. Sandwich ascends to heaven. Achieves enlightenment. You do realise that I now have to get a picture of that commission of just like you but with like 50 arms in a zane position. Put my transformation into a deity.
01:17:39
Speaker
You know that way when, and I know this is completely off topic, but you know that way when you hear about certain deities ascending and it was because they did like great acts. And then they come to you and they say, how did you ascend to enlightenment? And I was like, well, I watched this film where they combined Sonic the Hedgehog 3
01:18:02
Speaker
Anyway, if you'd like to hear about our new religion, go to www.msaintlessandliges.co. And again, I'm completely joking if that is a real website. Please, for legal reasons, this is a joke. Don't follow that website. But anyway, I'm gonna go and write up some legal documents for starting a religion.
01:18:23
Speaker
What can I say? Yeah, that panda lawyer is furiously giving me the Paddington heart stare right now. He is not happy. He is an angry panda.
01:18:36
Speaker
But on that note, thank you all so, so much for listening to this episode. If you would like to hear more of our absolutely crazy content, you can listen to us on Anchor, Spotify, iTunes, YouTube as well, and really any good podcast app. Just look for the Red Panda under the name Chat Tsunami and we will see you there. But until then guys, stay safe, stay awesome, stay hydrated, and do you want to finish this off Adam? Let us pay homage to Gerald Robotnik.
01:19:05
Speaker
Hashtag piers and bros in the first one at three.