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#65: Intergenerational Union Workers
64 Plays5 years ago
Series host Jill James sits down with Ashlee in this episode of The Accidental Safety Pro. Ashlee is a safety professional from Pennsylvania with the United Steelworkers. She has seen many generations in her family become union workers, including herself. Listen now!
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Transcript
Introduction & Guest Background
00:00:00
Speaker
This is the Accidental Safety Pro brought to you by HSI. This episode was recorded on October 23rd, 2020. My name is Jill James, HSI's Chief Safety Officer, and today I'm joined by Ashley. Ashley is a safety professional with the United Steelworkers. Ashley is joining us today from Pennsylvania. Welcome to the show, Ashley. Hi, thanks for having me.
00:00:24
Speaker
I believe that you are the first ever safety professional representing a labor union that we've had on the Accidental Safety Pro Podcast. This is an honor, so thank you. Oh, you're welcome. First of any, I hope. Good point. Yes. So those of you who are working for unions out there, if you are interested in being on the podcast, hit me up. I think it'd be great to hear from all of the labor unions in the country. That would be awesome.
Union Role in Safety & Health
00:00:54
Speaker
So, Ashley, you know, usually we start by asking our guests to tell their story of how they got into safety, and I want to hear that. But since you are the first person we've had on the show who works safety with a labor union,
00:01:13
Speaker
Maybe could we start with you sharing kind of what that work means today? Like, what does what does your work involve at this moment? And we can kind of then go back from there. OK, so I'll first start if that's OK whenever I joined the International Union.
00:01:32
Speaker
in the health and safety department. So I was a health and safety representative and a lot of the work that I did and really the team did at the health and safety department was working, you know, servicing local unions, and I'll go more about what that is, working with regulatory and legislative efforts around occupational safety and health, and then also working with locals to
00:02:00
Speaker
I'd say working with locals to help get appropriate controls in their facilities. So in the first part of working, you know, servicing our members, that would arrange from anything doing an occupational exposure assessment. Let's say, you know, some, a group of workers have developed some type of, you know, disease or chronic illness. We would go into the facility and help, you know, workers at the facility and work with
00:02:29
Speaker
you know, the company and the members there to try to identify what was causing that. Another thing that we did is anytime there was a serious injury or a fatality at a United Stillworkers representative facility, we would go in and help the local conduct the investigation, work with OSHA, and also connect the family and coworkers into some type of counseling program in case they didn't have that already offered at that facility.
00:02:59
Speaker
So a lot of the time it was kind of working with smaller locals because smaller locals, smaller workplaces,
Defining Moments in Safety
00:03:08
Speaker
because OSHA doesn't come to every workplace, right? I come from the state of West Virginia. It would take 92 years for OSHA to come to every single facility. So they really needed help. So we spent a lot of time doing that.
00:03:22
Speaker
And when you say, for people who don't know the union lingo, Ashley, when you say locals, why don't you explain what that means, if you don't mind? So a local is going to be a smaller unit that represents either workers at a singular workplace or maybe multiple workplaces. So a local is somebody that is going to be representing members on a local smaller level.
00:03:52
Speaker
So it's smaller than state. Sometimes it goes across different counties. Sometimes it represents different workplaces, but that's like the local leadership team that's going to work to help make sure that members are protected, represented, and then also, you know, work with employers to make sure that we're doing everything we can to be safe and productive at work.
00:04:14
Speaker
Mm hmm. Thank you. Thank you for that explanation. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Oh, you know, a lot of the time it was working with those particular locals. And then the other thing about servicing local servicing members. I always like to tell this story. And, you know, I know you ask how you got into health and safety. That's a big question. But there's also a moment when I knew this is what I wanted to do.
00:04:44
Speaker
So that moment is whenever I was just started with the department and we had a very small workplace, probably about 20 workers were going to make a certain product.
00:04:59
Speaker
that infused a pesticide with a polymer. So, you know, whenever it comes to pesticides, all of the dangers that could be if you're not using it appropriately, you don't have appropriate controls. So I went to this really small workplace and they had, they did not have the protections that were needed to protect workers to run that product the way that they were wanting to. So I really talked to
Family Influence & Career Path
00:05:27
Speaker
you know, the company and I talked to the local through their health and safety committee. And we discussed all of the controls that really needed to be in place to protect people. So after it's all said and done, they ended up not running the product. And the jinx of the story is, or the hitch of the story is, is that when they removed the product from that facility, because they didn't have the appropriate controls that the workers needed to run it properly.
00:05:55
Speaker
they moved it to a different facility that wasn't represented and three of the workers at that facility ended up suffering from temporary chemical blindness. So it really shows that, you know, just workers having a voice to be able to say, Hey, let's step back and look at this process before we just do something. I think that that really made me feel that
00:06:21
Speaker
You know, I changed those workers' lives that day. Everyone at that facility. And I wish the other facility, you know, could have had the same voice. Right. Right. Powerful. Powerful, Ashley. So do you feel like this is the time we can kind of back into how you got into this and we can weave into more of things you're working on today?
00:06:46
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, let's start at the beginning because you had mentioned a moment ago that you're originally from West Virginia. So yeah, set the stage for us. How did you get into this? Yeah. So I, like I said, I was originally from West Virginia. So I went to WVU. If anybody out there is a Mountaineers fan, go ears. And there I,
00:07:12
Speaker
went to school and I got my degree for environmental law and economics. So being from West Virginia, coal was a very big part of what we do and really part of our culture. So during that time I worked in a coal-fired power plant interning for safety. And that's what really kind of got me into really doing health and safety and looking at
00:07:39
Speaker
you know, how cognizant the coal fire power plant I worked at was of, you know, meeting EPA regulations, working to make sure that people were safe. And I just kind of got, you know, initially exposed to it through the environmental field. So whenever I graduated, I was really wanting to go work for
00:08:01
Speaker
you know, a DEP, that's the Department of Environmental Protections or the EPA. And it didn't really work out. So I ended up working at a aluminum facility, aluminum manufacturing facility that my family has, has worked at. So it was really, you know, nice to kind of be part of, of that family. And it was a United Steelworkers represented site. So,
00:08:29
Speaker
So what does, you have a family who's working in an aluminum, in the aluminum industry. For anyone who's not familiar with what that industry is like or what they do, can you kind of paint a picture for us? It sounds like you have a rich family history there as well. So what is work about there? What is it like? What is it?
00:08:51
Speaker
Well, I will speak to kind of what I did in my knowledge of, you know, the process, um, and knowing that I, you know, maybe a little rusty on terminology after all these years. So what we, what they did is we met, we, um, melted down and casted different alloys of aluminum. So we specifically made, um, air wear.
00:09:16
Speaker
for Boeing an Airbus. So if you look out your airplane and you see the wings kind of tilt up whenever you're getting ready to land or take off, we made a lot of that metal. We also made a lot of military grade metal and you kind of change
00:09:32
Speaker
the strength or density or tensile strength of metals by adding different alloys, like so much silver, so much of other metal elements. So what I did at the facility is I would cut pieces of that aluminum before it went out to the customer, and I would machine them down and test them for certain properties like fatigue, struck fatigue, testing,
Regulatory Impact & Training
00:10:01
Speaker
tensile strength,
00:10:02
Speaker
Um, sometimes check the alloy content of them. So I was more of a CNC and lay the operator at the facility. Um, but my grandfather, he worked there in what was called the pot rooms at the time. That's where you actually, you know, make the aluminum through a process and in the pot lines. And there's a whole lot of other, um, I guess more in-depth things that go into that actually.
00:10:31
Speaker
that part of it. Is that a molten process? Yes. Yeah, okay. But that was actually a lot more hazardous and dangerous. We look at now the beryllium rule that came out. And one of the major places that the United Steelworkers represent is, you know, aluminum, aluminum making in some pot room facilities where beryllium can be an issue. So I
00:11:01
Speaker
I was lucky to have the protections in place through OSHA and EPA and all of those places now because people like my grandfather looking back, facilities looked a whole lot different 40, 50, 60 years ago than what they looked today. Yeah, prior to OSHA, sure. Yeah.
00:11:24
Speaker
So that was kind of how, you know, that what I did at the facility and when I worked there, we went through, um, a thing called a strike. So there are two different types of, you know, labor disputes that if you will, that could happen during your contract negotiation times. Um, and just background on that is, you know, you, everyone, when they go to work, they have a contract.
00:11:50
Speaker
you know, you have some type of agreement with your employer of your benefits of, you know, your job, different things like that. So a collective bargaining agreement is just, you know, an agreement where the represented people this time of the United store workers where I worked, you know, talk to the company about benefits about working conditions and about how certain things are going to be worked out in at the facility to prevent, you know, to help everything run smooth.
00:12:20
Speaker
So, so
Legacy & Labor Rights
00:12:23
Speaker
within, when I worked there, we went through a strike. And as I said about the labor disputes, so there's a lockout and a strike. So a lockout is whenever, you know, workers are trying to come to work and they are getting locked out of their job. That could be for a variety of different reasons. One of which could be that.
00:12:43
Speaker
You don't have a contract. You don't have that collective bargaining agreement. So where, um, the facility where I worked is also the facility where my grandfather worked. And in the nineties, he got locked out of his job for two years. Oh my gosh.
00:13:00
Speaker
for the reason of the contract not being in place or why? There's a lot of different reasons. There's a book on it. It's called Ravenswood. It's very interesting, but a lot of the reasons came back to health and safety, that they were working in these conditions and wanted changes in the workplace and for a variety of different reasons that that wasn't happening. So he and
00:13:29
Speaker
the women and men that he worked with were locked out for two years and replacement workers came and, you know, did their jobs for, for two years until they were able to get back in. So that was, that's a lockout. We went through a strike. So that's whenever you have your collective bargaining agreement. And for some reason of another, there's, you know, an unfair labor practice and
00:13:55
Speaker
the workers don't go into work until they do get a fair contract. I've been part of a strike myself. Actually, my first job out of grad school was working for state government and so I belonged at that time to a collective bargaining unit and we struck at that time for
00:14:19
Speaker
Well, it was primarily over benefits, over benefits. And so I am familiar with what that's like. And I have walked a picket line. And it happened to be the place where I met a fellow picketer. I was pregnant at the time and met a fellow picketer, worked at a different state facility in my community. And I needed a baby crib.
00:14:45
Speaker
And I bought my baby crib from a fellow picketer and that's my son's crib story. I got that during a strike and it's the one thing of his life that I've saved.
00:15:02
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, other little kid things too, but that if, you know, some people might save, I don't know, a certain teddy bear or something, but I've got this crib. No, that's meaningful, right? It is. Those relationships that you form on picket lines sometimes, it helps everyone get through a hard time, right? Yeah, absolutely. So yes, thank you. Please continue. Yeah, I hope that my strike definition was okay.
00:15:31
Speaker
that works. Does that seem right to you too? Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, the one thing I remember about being on strike is my grandfather, right? He worked there in the nineties and got locked out. He and all of his friends, coworkers at the time came and were on the picket line with us. So, you know, it was a very humbling experience to be
00:16:01
Speaker
standing in the same place that my grandfather stood, you know, 30 years before trying to fight the same fight and make sure that workers were still getting the same protections. That was a really nice humbling experience. Um, so, but the other thing that came out of that, you know, is the realization that everyone
00:16:29
Speaker
Everyone still tries to do the right thing, right? I really think that whether you're a union representative or a company representative, that people do try to do the right things when it comes to health and safety. And we'll talk about the pandemic and how many different things people are doing. But sometimes it just takes a different voice or a different lens, a different perspective to look at things and to hear what people say.
Contemporary Issues & Community Health
00:16:56
Speaker
So I went back to school to get my master's degree in safety while I worked at the facility. And that was a very, I think, very opening, very opening and, how can I say it? It was a very, I guess stark reminder of why I did that and why I thought it was important because- Yeah, why did you Ashley? I mean, you're working at the plant. Why did you pick safety?
00:17:27
Speaker
And, you know, there was one time I can remember, um, sitting there and looking at and going through, um, some of the safety issues. Cause I was on the safety committee whenever I joined there. So I would be involved in inspections. Um, I would be involved in monthly meetings to talk about health and safety issues, to talk about how we're going to fix some things and.
00:17:54
Speaker
In one meeting, we were talking about maybe a new chemical brought onto the facility or some other material that was coming on. And we asked for that safety data sheet about what it was. And I remember the safety manager, if you will, saying that we didn't need to know that information. It's fine.
00:18:24
Speaker
And right now I couldn't tell you looking back if it was fine, you could have been completely safe, but I think that everybody has the right to ask and the right to know it's an OSHA law, right? We do have the right to know. Um, so going to school and getting that education, not only empowered me, but empowered everyone in that facility because I was there to say, you know, next time that safety manager told me that
00:18:50
Speaker
I didn't need to know that I was educated and empowered enough to say, actually, yes, we do. And have a right to that information. So I, I think that's, you know, what really made me proud to do health and safety and, you know, necessarily get into that, get into the field. And as I went through, you know, different classes and worked at the facility, it just, you know, educated and empowered, you know, the workers more.
00:19:18
Speaker
to ask these questions and to get involved and, you know, to really make the place, make the workplace better. Um, because you have a different perspective and a different lens coming in.
Pandemic Preparedness & Safety Resilience
00:19:29
Speaker
Um, you know, I only worked at the facility for maybe a year, year and a half while I started taking my degree. Um, so I had a new fresh eyes in the whole facility.
00:19:40
Speaker
Hmm. Yeah. I bet you were seeing things as you learned more and more about every day you walked in and thought, Oh, I didn't notice that before. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I think another thing, you know, that happened is that, um, we did ha we had a fatality at the facility on a safety hazard that was reported for 30 plus years.
00:20:03
Speaker
Hmm. Sorry. I know those stories all too well. I've investigated a lot of, a lot of death in my career. Yeah. And when you see something that people said something for so long and no one wanted to pay attention to it, they turned a blind eye to it. You know, it's just after downsizing and that job was used to be a two, two person job. It was cut down to one and
00:20:34
Speaker
ultimately resulted in a fatality. Now there's multiple causal factors to that, but that's the worst thing that could ever happen. And that's why we all are kind of in the position where we are because we don't want to see it happen.
00:20:52
Speaker
So did you as you were as you were going to school and getting getting your degree in safety, did you end up then working in safety at that same facility? No, I did not actually. So my last year, of course, you needed an internship. Yeah, okay. And, you know, I, I, my union is my family.
00:21:18
Speaker
And after, you know, being the voice and being there for workers at the facility, I really wanted to do something bigger. You know, my family has always been union members and they've really provided benefits that allowed me to go to college, to have health insurance, to have, you know, parents that make a living wage so they can put food on the table. So I wanted to give that back.
00:21:44
Speaker
So I, you know, began inquiring and working through, um, you know, my local, um, some of the local leadership here. Um, then we have a, you know, a different leadership that I talked to and ultimately ended up with an internship at the United Store Workers headquarters. Wow. Which is, which is, is it in Pennsylvania or where is it? Yeah, that's in Pittsburgh. Okay.
00:22:13
Speaker
And so is that what launched, uh, what, what launched your career then? Um, I think so. I mean, I wouldn't say that's where I think that you got your start.
00:22:30
Speaker
Yeah, that's where I got my start. And there, it's just been, you know, being able to help people that need your help. This United Store Workers also has, I would think it's, you know, the largest labor health and safety conference with around 1600, 2000 members, Labor and Management Health and Safety Committee
00:23:00
Speaker
members to come and learn about safety and health. So I really enjoyed, you know, working with that education and empowerment is one of the pillars that we stand on. So that really helped.
Advice for New Safety Professionals
00:23:15
Speaker
I think it helps members. I enjoyed that. And then just like you, you know, we have the responsibility, the responsibility to
00:23:25
Speaker
to do these investigations to make sure that fatalities, serious injuries doesn't happen again. So worked on a lot of that, as I described earlier. And then also, whenever I started, it was a very
00:23:43
Speaker
very fast moving with OSHA as far as a regulatory standpoint. We were working on silica, ended up working on some eye and face, reporting and record keeping. When you look back actually at that year, 2014, I think 2014-15 year, there was a lot of stuff going on with OSHA. So I had the opportunity to really get involved with the regulatory process.
00:24:14
Speaker
and be influential in the passage of some of those laws and amendments to them? Yes, I think so. I think it's on OSHA's website, but during the silica hearings, we had one of our members who had silicosis from working in a foundry and how it's impacted his life where he can't walk from the door of a grocery store to his car without getting winded.
00:24:44
Speaker
And how if there were protections, like that would have changed not only his life, but his family's life. And we were able to work with that member and, you know, bring him to the hearings in OSHA. And whenever OSHA passed the silica standard, he was right there to welcome it in. So I think those moments are the moments that you look back, you know, of how gratifying it can be. Yeah, right. And so what Ashley is describing for those of you who are listening, when
00:25:12
Speaker
When an agency like OSHA or it could be a state OSHA program promulgates a new standard or law as it can also be known, there's a public comment period. So someone somewhere is writing the regulatory text.
00:25:30
Speaker
And then prior to it being considered to be adopted as a law, there's something called a public comment period where people can come in and tell their stories and argue one way or another that can be part of that process as well. And so, Ashley, you're talking about how members would come in and tell how they were impacted that would then be captured in that history that led up to the passage of particular laws.
00:26:01
Speaker
Hmm. Powerful stuff. Powerful stuff. Yes. And so I have been with the, um, I wasn't, I was a.
00:26:14
Speaker
After working with the health and safety department as the health and safety representative, I now get to work more on the preventative side, where we do health and safety training. So we have grants with the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences and IHS, as well as with the Department of Energy. And we have a large partnership of
00:26:44
Speaker
organizations across the United States, Puerto Rico and Guam, where we provide health and safety training to many different types of workers, some in manufacturing facilities, some temporary workers, some day laborers, just to help provide that education to... Empowers like you were talking about. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:13
Speaker
So I think that I really like doing this part of the safety and health to help prevent and trying to help prevent in a different way. And training plays a big part of that. Yeah, yeah.
00:27:29
Speaker
So Ashley, when I just want to revisit your grandpa just a little bit. What did he think? I mean, you guys had you worked in the same facility and you, you know, kind of grew into this worker protection piece of your life. What did your grandpa have to say about that? And what does he think about about your career? So when I first started at the facility, there were people that worked there that knew my grandfather.
00:27:57
Speaker
So I took on the family name of Hoot. So anyone there would always call me by the family name. And he was very proud of that, you know, just in that fact. So whenever I started working with the United Steelworkers, and whenever I came, you know, working in health and safety, he's incredibly proud, not only because, you know, I'm his granddaughter, but because
00:28:27
Speaker
He fought for so much for his coworkers and, you know, can stay up until recently continue to fight. So in part of my grandfather's, um, collective bargaining agreement when he retired is they were supposed to have, you know, a defined amount of retiree health insurance and years after, you know, after they retired.
00:28:57
Speaker
that the company took it away, terminated their retiree health insurance. So it was a long, you know, legal battle in trying to come to a resolution of, you know, promising people these benefits that were no longer going to be provided to them. So, I mean, if you imagine, you know, these are,
00:29:26
Speaker
these, you know, my grandfather and the people that he worked with, you know, they, at that time they were 80, you know, late eight, early eighties. And all of a sudden your benefits are gone. And then all of a sudden, yeah. So, you know, it ended up that they didn't end up getting the benefits that
00:29:48
Speaker
they were promised at their collective bargaining agreement due to several legal issues, but they did get some. But I think that, you know, is more about trying to make sure that, you know, promises or things
00:30:06
Speaker
It was promises made, promises kept. Not saying that though. It was more about making sure that when that agreement is made at the table in writing, that there's some honor left in it, right? There's some, you know, accountability made to
00:30:32
Speaker
these agreements. So I really, you know, attest to the solidarity of my grandfather and all of, you know, the people that he worked with on that. And, you know, up until recently, they still met together every month.
00:30:51
Speaker
Hmm. Your grandpa and his, and his, and his, and his friends from work. Yep. They still, it's kind of the still worker organization of active retirees. So we call it a sore, sore chapters. So they still met. Um, and they, they fought that fight for years. And, um, you know, it's just really important to look back on that, you know, Years after, you know,
00:31:20
Speaker
these people left the facility. Some of them, you know, they may have not have been in contact with, but as soon as that happened, like they all came back together. So to have that type of long standing impact and something that binds people together is really moving. And I was really happy that I could be part of that. Yeah, beautiful, beautiful. And you know, the
00:31:44
Speaker
you know, for people who are maybe just starting out in safety and you, you know, you crack open these law books of safety regulations, whether state or federal and you think, where did this stuff come from? You know, how did this happen?
00:31:58
Speaker
And if you look into the citations in the books, you can see that a lot of things were pulled from other consensus building organizations like the National Fire Protection Agency or the National Electric Code, different places like that. But the influencers, when these laws were coming into being in the 70s,
00:32:18
Speaker
were where you're working now, Ashley. It was the labor unions who really came to the forefront, told the stories, told what was happening to try to get these laws in place and pass. So, you know, a lot of gratitude to the work of your grandfather's generation for making that happen for the rest of us, to be able to have safe and healthy workplaces.
00:32:45
Speaker
Yeah, no, and I think that that's, um, I would encourage people to, um, Look at photography by Earl daughter. He is a photographer that takes a lot of pictures about, you know, working men and women in working conditions. And it's, it's really, you know, I would encourage, you know, new safety professionals to really look at the workplaces. As I said, you know, I'm happy. I worked at the mill.
00:33:15
Speaker
you know, when I did not 60 years before, because it would look completely different. And, you know, look at the rivers, like Cleveland, the rivers near Cleveland looked completely different before EPA. Interesting. So Ashley, you were, we'll try to include, let's try to include that in the show notes. Photographs by Earl, what did you say? Daughter, D-O-T-T-E-R.
00:33:43
Speaker
Okay, okay. We'll try to get that into the show notes well so that people can... I'm talking to our producer who's listening as Ashley and I are recording. That's... no, you're perfectly fine. I'm just putting a reminder out there that we do that. Yeah, you were talking about prevention and the work that you're doing in prevention right now.
00:34:03
Speaker
Let's talk more about what that looks like. I know that you've been doing some work with mental health and with opiates. And of course, gosh, the pandemic we're all living through. So what does that prevention work look like now? Yeah, I'm glad that you kind of bring up those issues. It's really important to note that we have an epidemic during the pandemic.
00:34:33
Speaker
Right. This opioid use disorders is a continuing and ongoing problem that's, you know, overshadowed by the pandemic. And, you know, rightfully so the pandemic, you know, we have a lot of things that need to be addressed, a lot of controls and, you know, everyone needs to be cognizant and vigilant. But that.
00:34:53
Speaker
When you look at these smaller communities that have been severely impacted by the opioid epidemic, there's two things that we try to point out whenever we're training. And one of them is stigma. And the other one is health disparities. So talking about the stigma, and we also do this with mental health because there is such a tie in between mental health issues
00:35:23
Speaker
that can lead to substance use disorders is people don't want to talk about, right? Mental health, people don't want to talk about substance use disorders in the workplace.
00:35:36
Speaker
for various reasons. One is, you know, the society, how they label it. Another is, you know, wanting to appear strong. And also people don't really correlate it as an occupational safety and health issue. So, you know, many people say that we have a drug testing policy at my workplace, so we don't have a drug issue at my workplace.
00:36:06
Speaker
That's not necessarily true. So it's important that, you know, we bridge what's happening in the workplace and how it can connect to what's going on in the community and vice versa, because workplaces are just merely an extension of our communities. So in looking at our occupations, we identify occupational risk factors, things like job burnout.
00:36:33
Speaker
um, stress, harassment, fatigue, presenteeism, whenever people are coming to work when they probably shouldn't be, or working overtime, extended hours when they're not mentally or maybe even physically there. So all of these things, you know, can help impact someone's mental health. And ironically enough, in our trainings, we learned that those issues also contribute to injuries.
00:37:02
Speaker
and illnesses in the workplace. So to make that connection that, you know, these things may cause physical harm, but they can also cause mental harm is really important for that connection. We also talk a lot about ergonomics, sprains and strains. And, you know, that's the standard that we do not have the ability to get back. So.
00:37:30
Speaker
With ergonomics causing such with ergonomics causing so many injuries in the workplace, it's really unfortunate that we can't get those protections. Yeah. Yeah. So.
00:37:48
Speaker
Yeah, I feel that one. My brother suffered a career ending injury because of repetitive stress, repetitive motion.
00:38:02
Speaker
And yeah, it's a thing. It's a thing. I wish we had that law on the books too. Some states do. Some states do, which is great for the states that are leading the way. And that doesn't mean that employers in states that don't have that law can't take what's being done in other places and apply it to their workplace as well.
00:38:24
Speaker
And we also have this conversation around our public sector workers, right? Because some of them don't have OSHA protections. It can be covered by some other different, you know, state law or maybe a different system within their state government, but there's some workers that don't have them at all. And that's always really important to think about. But as we go through and look at occupational, you know,
00:38:51
Speaker
risk factors and make those connections, it really helps break down that stigma that it's not a weak issue, that they're not workplace issues because it correlates right back to what some workers or what have been identified as issues that cause injury or illness in their workplace. So those are some really important things that we make sure that we get, we are able to provide just to break that bridge
00:39:23
Speaker
That is really important information we provide so we can bridge, you know, public health and occupational safety and health. Yeah. And we're, I mean, and we're living in such an interesting time, right? I mean, that bridge is, if it was ever.
00:39:41
Speaker
cloudy or you couldn't make the connection before 2020 is the year like it seems like yeah we see this nexus now we see this nexus between public health and occupational health yeah yeah because of the pandemic yeah and that that you know that ties into you know the health disparities we talk about we try to always recognize
00:40:06
Speaker
that there's disparities, whether we're doing environment, like environmental justice training, whether we're talking about has Whopper, um, we need to recognize, you know, some of the disparities that communities have or communities overcome when it comes to mental health and substance use disorders. I'll speak, you know, to West Virginia, one of the hardest hit States from the opioid epidemic, um, you know, access to treatment and
00:40:34
Speaker
being able to find recovery and get recovery. A lot of employers had maybe a one test and you're out if you fail that. And those types of punitive policies don't encourage workers or let workers get help. They would hide it because they needed their job to support their family. So it's really important whenever we have these labor management training sessions to talk about that, that if people really, if we really want to help people,
00:41:05
Speaker
then we need to have policies in place that help people. We were doing a listening session with NIEHS in developing their opioids and work training program. And one member stood up and told us a story about how there was a young man that was hired at their facility. He worked there, you know, six months, almost got off probation.
00:41:34
Speaker
and failed a drug test and had a bad drug problem. And he wasn't full-time, so he didn't get EAP benefits. He didn't have insurance that would cover recovery centers. And six months later, he was reading that young man's name in the paper.
00:41:56
Speaker
being incarcerated from involving in crime. So, you know, that was the ability to change and impact and help. Such important work, Ashley, such important work. Yeah, how do you see
00:42:20
Speaker
How are you relating safety and the pandemic right now? And what's the work look like for you with your members now? So during the pandemic, I think that many, many employers, many people in general, you know, trying to navigate the right thing, right? Trying to implement controls that are going to help. And there's been,
00:42:49
Speaker
little or no or changing guidance that we've gotten and really how to protect people, protect workers. So early on in the pandemic, we wanted to make sure that the message and education and clear information
00:43:07
Speaker
was out there and could get to members. So a lot of our members were considered essential. So we represent a lot of paper makers. So the more and more toilet paper people bought, the more and more workers, right? And now we represent a lot of people that make glass and cans. So as people
00:43:31
Speaker
sit at home and drink their favorite beverage. We're making those containers. So a lot of us, you know, never, never stopped working. And, you know, even more of us, you know, don't have the opportunity to work from home. So, so that really put our union and the employers that we work with in a
00:44:01
Speaker
tight space to make sure that we were doing what's right to the best of our ability to protect our members. With the knowledge that you had at the time, which is a continually changing body of knowledge as we learn more and more about this novel virus. Yes, but I think there's a lot of things that prepared some of our facilities with specific examples is that
00:44:27
Speaker
You know, many of our workplaces were not directly impacted, but were cognizant of Ebola. So we had an Ebola infectious disease training program. We worked with employers and locals to develop infection control plans. So they would have that, you know, for future preparedness planning. So we had, you know, some facilities that were very prepared.
00:44:57
Speaker
and just pulled out, you know, what they had at, you know, of course revised it with the new knowledge, but had some infection control measures in place. And of course we're talking about outside of healthcare and these general examples. So through that and working, you know, from what we know from our previous work with infectious disease response, we were able to really quickly tool up and, you know, help people and get them information
00:45:27
Speaker
in ways to protect themselves with what we knew then and kind of continuing with what we know. And one of the most challenging parts with that was the lack of supply of PPE. The really good example that I have for this is very early on, we knew that PPE was gonna be a problem for nurses or for our healthcare workers, not just nurses.
00:45:58
Speaker
In our industries, we use, you know, Elastomeric half-face respirators. That's what we wear. And we had a very unique position to help out, you know, healthcare workers or other, you know, frontline workers with the resources that we have at
00:46:20
Speaker
throughout our facilities. Now, not to impede or put them in dangerous situations, but whenever we have, you know, a large facility that has two half-face respirators and a full-face respirator and they have about 8,000 people, there's an ability to help there. So we really quickly, you know, worked with locals who had any extra personal protective equipment and their employers to donate it to the nearest hospital.
00:46:50
Speaker
just in case, whether it was our member or not, just help get some protective equipment to those folks who are going to need it. And I don't have exact numbers of how much PPE that we were able to work with employers to donate. But I know that there were several, several facilities got those half face elastomeric respirators, which opened up a really unique position to help
00:47:19
Speaker
bridge, I guess, traditional PPE in the healthcare setting into using something that is just as protective, if not more, just in a different way. Yeah, right. I mean, people in your industry know that personal protective equipment in a way that healthcare workers don't, because they don't use it day in and day out, like your members do, like people in your industry do.
00:47:48
Speaker
I know a safety professional friend of mine, you know, had as many of us safety professionals saw this pandemic, you know, the cloud was coming, right, as it as it as it entered our country. And many of us who know something about infectious diseases started buying equipment to protect workers. And one of my safety professional friends did that. She's like, I need to I need I need more of this stuff because I see this happening.
00:48:17
Speaker
And she said that her management was like, what are you doing? Why are we buying this stuff? And she's like, we're going to need it. We're going to need it for our essential workers in the food industry. And as it turned out, they were able to donate a lot of what she had pulled together as well through a combined effort in her state.
00:48:39
Speaker
where the state became a collector for anyone who had personal protective equipment that could donate and give to the healthcare industry. And so similar situation to you. And you look back, you know what crazy times that was, you know, you don't, you don't, you can't get, you know, the specific food or you can't get specific items. And all in all, while, you know, we, a lot of safety people were just
00:49:10
Speaker
hitting the books, trying to get as much education as possible so we could turn around and help other people. I think that was, you know, one of the most stressful times of my life. I don't know. Yes. So many of us, I think, I think, I think if listeners could be, you know, chiming in as they're listening, when they listen to this, probably everyone would say, yes, we do.
00:49:33
Speaker
I really think another thing to be cognizant of is we have a whole program that does disaster response training to secondary workers in the middle of a hurricane or after a hurricane. So the people that go and are picking up trash that are helping people remove
00:50:03
Speaker
waterlogged drywall. Um, so we try to, we have a program that's also within IEHS where we go to those areas and help provide training to, to workers and community members. So, you know, just before this, right? Think of Puerto Rico, they had the hurricane and earthquake and trying to help them in the midst of all of this, or, you know, Cookville, Tennessee, they had a horrible tornado.
00:50:32
Speaker
that kind of just went right through the state, right after this. So there's all these other disasters that's happening too, which just makes it even more difficult to help people get the equipment that they need and the education that's going to help them protect themselves and their communities and their workplaces. So throughout the pandemic, I think that we've all just been trying to
00:51:02
Speaker
You know, make sure that we can educate people through our training programs and make sure that it's accessible to all workers who need it. And also make sure they have continued update guidance. Yeah, right. Because we're not done yet and things will continue to change and we'll continue to learn. We'll continue to learn more and hopefully continue to learn more ways to protect protect one another.
00:51:33
Speaker
But at least, you know, that as you know, you stated that this pandemic has helped bridge that public health and occupational safety and health.
00:51:44
Speaker
You know, you'd never think that you'd be able to walk up to anyone in the store and they would know the difference between an N95 and exhalation valve, right? So now's the time I think for everyone who's involved in safety and health to push the message broader and, you know, make it that, you know, Jill, your podcast doesn't have to be the accidental safety pro anymore. It'll be like gold star safety. Um,
00:52:12
Speaker
you know, everyone wanting to be involved and engaged in safety and health because it does have a very big broad impact. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, you know, we, we've in those of us who've been in safety and health for a while we talk about, you know, safety at home as it relates to safety at work and that there is a nexus there but it's always sort of like a, it seems like sort of a hard sell sometimes.
00:52:36
Speaker
And it seems like this is like, no, this is everywhere. I mean, depending on the industry you're in, right? I mean, people who've had employees working with lead and bringing lead home on clothes impacts people at home and impacts families. You know, there's been a nexus there. I mean, pick a hazard that that's common, but it's not it's not something that's
00:53:00
Speaker
as pervasive as this. And so being safe at work and being safe at home are one and the same. And they both impact one another and impact families and impact communities.
00:53:17
Speaker
So all of us safety and health professionals are suddenly becoming public health champions as well. Yeah, but this will be another I think that, you know, looking at how everyone is being so resilient among, you know, these times and really working to make sure that
00:53:41
Speaker
workers get the protections that they need and that's a continual fight. Um, you know, we were trying to get an emergency temporary standard, um, that would help protect people from infectious disease. And now we have, you know, a handful of states maybe that have adopted an, you know, an emergency standard to protect workers from infectious diseases. Um, but we're still, you know, being
00:54:07
Speaker
We're still waiting on some bigger federal push to protect workers who don't have the protections right now. That's right. That's right. Ashley, you mentioned resilience. And we were talking about how intense this time has been for all of us in this field and, well, frankly, for everyone. What are you doing for your own resilience? For my resilience? Yeah. For everyone's resilience.
00:54:36
Speaker
Okay, so good question for both then. I know, I mean, if you ask me that question, I'm not doing so well myself. So it's easier to say what we're doing for others. Throughout this year, say that throughout this year, our works changed how we works changed. Right. And
00:55:02
Speaker
the staff that I work with at the Tony Mizaki Center have geared up 120% through the support with an IEHS. So I think that part of my resiliency is to be able to have that team that knows where we're at and where we're going and picks up and helps everybody get there.
00:55:30
Speaker
loads are hard to carry. So I would really think that as far as, you know, resiliency when it comes to dealing with work, um, having, I have a support system and I think that especially trying to gear up and help all type, all workers this year that they have been. Monster mental and keeping, you know, my mental health and my self-care and stress management on point.
00:55:58
Speaker
Um, and then outside of that realm, I think that it's really important that we reflect back on. On what, what we're doing and why we're doing it. So as I said before that my most gratifying time is helping workers. So instead of looking back and thinking about all of the things that are on our list that we have to get done next week and to do that, it's really important just to, you know,
00:56:26
Speaker
Look at your agenda from last week and see what you accomplished. Hmm. Cause there's some things there and that is everything time. That's something like that gets checked off the list. There's people that are impacted by that on the other end, even though you may not see it. So I think that that's really important. And, you know, I have a, I have a dog that hasn't parked since the beginning of this too. So.
00:56:51
Speaker
He helps. Since the beginning of our recording. Yes. Thank you to your dog. What's your dog's name? Jack. That's the name of my cat. Oh, that's awesome.
00:57:08
Speaker
Well, Ashley, as we're winding up our time together today, if someone's just starting out in safety and health right now or is maybe even looking for an internship in safety and health, would unions be one of those places that they could go and inquire to get their career started, particularly with an intern like you did? I'm going to plug again, Jill. I'm sorry. That's OK. OK.
00:57:39
Speaker
Yes, there are many opportunities. There's actually a program. It's called the Occupational Health Internship Program, OHIP. And that program works to connect undergraduate and graduate students to labor unions or other community organizations.
00:58:01
Speaker
um, to give them an internship. It's usually over the summer. Um, and they do a lot of work around, you know, exposure assessments. Some of them, um, look at occupational medicine. It's a really good program. Um, that has ran through, I believe it's a UCLA Loesch.
00:58:23
Speaker
Okay, okay. Thank you. That's a that's a great that's a great tip for our listeners. Thank you for that. Yeah. Ashley, it's been it's been such a pleasure talking with you today. And, you know, just just listening to the breadth and depth of your work. It's pretty fascinating. You know, we started out talking about beryllium. And we have talked about mental health and opiates and
00:58:51
Speaker
you know, a pandemic. I mean, anyone who thinks our work is boring, yeah, that's not the case, right? And the depth of things that we get to learn and get to be involved in as we advocate for workers is pretty amazing. So thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for your work and thank you for your time today. Thank you.
00:59:14
Speaker
And thank you all for spending your time listening today. And more importantly, thank you for your contribution toward the common good. Making sure your workers, including your temporary workers, make it home safe every day. If you'd like to join the conversation about this episode or any of our previous episodes, you can follow our page and join the Accidental Safety Pro community group on Facebook.
00:59:35
Speaker
If you aren't subscribed and want to hear past or future episodes, you can subscribe in iTunes, the Apple Podcast app, or any other podcast player you'd like. You can also find all of the episodes complete with transcripts at vividlearningsystems.com slash podcast. We'd love it if you could leave a rating and review us on iTunes. It really helps us connect the show with more and more safety professionals like you and I and Ashley. And special thanks to Will Moss, our podcast producer. And until next time, thanks for listening.