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Psychedelic Retreat Debrief
143 Plays3 years ago
A few weeks ago I was blessed to attend a psychedelic healing retreat through VETS. Veterans Exploring Treatment Solutions is a non-profit started by Amber and Marcus Capone that helps Veterans heal from TBI and trauma through psychedelic medicine.
In this episode, K and I discuss "how we got here" and linked up with VETS, what the process was/is like, my personal experience and how it was the hardest thing I have ever done, how integration and returning to "normal life" is going, and a fundraiser we are participating in March 4-6 to help raise money for VETS so other Veterans can experience this life-changing healing modality.
I am running the 4x4x48 challenge that Warriors Angels is hosting. You might recall previous BTE Podcast guest Toby Guillette talk about his experience, so I am excited to do it, represent VETS, and share in the weekend with K, too.
If you would please consider donating and helping us reach our goal of raising enough for 2 Veterans to attend, it would mean the world to us and quite literally change someone's world.
You can donate here: https://give.warriorangelsfoundation.org/fundraiser/3691417
Thank you for your support and love!
❤️ 🙏 👊
-Bill & K
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Transcript
Greetings and Podcast Season Humor
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello. Hello. Make sure this is recording. We don't even know how to do this anymore. It has been a very long time. So are we calling this season three or are we just... Cannibal, we're on season five. Season four was one episode. Look, you know what? Just keep throwing seasons out. Keep putting people on their toes.
Podcast Growth Despite Infrequency
00:00:26
Speaker
Hey.
00:00:27
Speaker
This is like... Somehow, okay, here's why the digital world is so... I get an email every week about the BTE podcast from the hosting service. Right, like numbers and data. Yeah, from Buzzsprout, so I hosted on Buzzsprout, okay?
00:00:54
Speaker
I am happy to report the BT podcast is growing. We have more listeners. The less we record. We have more listeners now than ever. You know why? Because people probably got latched in at some point. And then just when we release new ones, they listen to the new ones. Now that there's nothing, they have to go back.
00:01:14
Speaker
They're going back. I don't think they're going back. I don't think people are listening to old episodes. I hope they're not. I hope they're not.
Personal Updates: Grad School and Fitness
00:01:22
Speaker
There's no chance they're going to be listening to this now. So let's update. Yeah, update. It's February 7th, 2022. It's kind of funny. I was actually thinking about this a little over a year ago, more than a year ago.
00:01:44
Speaker
Remember when we sat down and did the podcast and we were like, before I was like, I was applying to go to school where I was committed to like, okay, but I didn't start yet. I don't remember that far long back. That was only a year ago. So you've been, what we've been up to is your full swing NYU grad school for social work. You're finishing in May. So it was like an accelerated 16 month course. 16 months. You're in the city once a week.
00:02:14
Speaker
Yeah, unfortunately. Then you have three days of your internship, which you're currently doing onsite at the VA hospital. At the VA, yeah, and substance abuse outreach program. And then you still have a handful of one-on-one coaching clients that you work with. Not really in person, but like coaching in multiple ways. Yep. That leaves me with...
00:02:44
Speaker
the BTE fitness operation, which I'm really enjoying. Which you've been doing an awesome job with. Yeah. You've
Year of Personal Growth and Challenges
00:02:52
Speaker
been doing a way better job. We've established that I'm just better. Yeah, fair. Um, and yeah, and of course we still have Motown and all that. So I'm opening a bakery shortly. No, I'm just kidding. I'm not, but maybe a pop-up.
00:03:16
Speaker
What are you going to sell? What would you sell? Vaucazia, cinnamon buns, sourdough loaves. All bread product. Maybe every now and then a special. Pop tart, croissant. So more bread product? Just all bread. OK. So yeah, if you're local and interested in some bread, that's a horizon. Case bakery. So yeah, but we've actually had
00:03:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think this last year was filled with a lot of, I don't want to say like ups and downs, but growth and that can be, growth sounds so great and like positive and it is, but it's painful. And I think that's how I would classify, I'm happy that this year happened and it was challenged, it challenged both of us in very different ways. Yeah.
Military Friend's Influence and Personal Insights
00:04:14
Speaker
Big time. Yeah. A lot of growth.
00:04:17
Speaker
I would say this past year, not because of COVID, um, has probably been probably the most, one of the most difficult years. Yeah. You know, like there's been, there's been harder times I would say, but shorter, you know, some real crappy times, but like this was like,
00:04:47
Speaker
This was a... There was a lot, yeah. So relative to... Because some... Quite a bit of probably this podcast will talk about sort of your journey, I think. Yeah. And you've been doing a lot, I would say, I would classify it as a lot of work on yourself. I know that sounds like a very broad way to put it, but I think everyone who listens to this or knows you know that you're interested in
00:05:17
Speaker
you know, uncovering how you've been trying to live a full life, a fulfilled life and working through some of your challenges.
Veteran Solutions: Healing Retreat
00:05:28
Speaker
Um, yeah. So last year, I don't even remember when that was, was it November when we were coming back from when we listened to that podcast. So Ben text called me and I want to say late October.
00:05:45
Speaker
Right. So a friend of ours who was in the military for 25, 30 years. No, I don't think that long. Not that long. I don't think so. I don't know. I feel like everybody was like 25 years, 15 years. We'll call it 15. He's had a full career. He's had a full career.
00:06:03
Speaker
he reached out. He was thinking of you. He'd done a psychedelic retreat through an organization called Veteran Solutions and had said he just had to get in touch with you, thought about
VA Treatment Limitations and Alternatives
00:06:17
Speaker
you, thought it'd be something that you would really benefit from. And it happened to coincide then with the people that
00:06:25
Speaker
own and run that organization being on a podcast. And you and I both listened to that podcast and were kind of like stopped in our tracks a little bit with feeling like we just related so much to the experience that they were sharing. Yeah. It was almost like listening to an echo.
00:06:46
Speaker
and it's a husband and wife. The husband was a SEAL and had been in for a career and obviously had had some stuff before he went into the military, but really the decline of his mental health and the challenge that presented with when he was out of the military and just the bigger issue of the community and suicide in the veteran space had led them to
00:07:15
Speaker
um, get involved with psychedelics as a means to recovery healing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, traditionally you can go a couple of routes. If you do anything via the VA, you know, you're going to find because it's the VA, you're limited. Yeah. You know? And so a lot of,
00:07:43
Speaker
There is a lot of prescription medication, which there's nothing wrong with prescription drugs. They're great solutions for people, but not all people. And there's different, even as far as like therapeutic modalities, you're getting
00:08:06
Speaker
there's like four that are practiced. And they're evidence-based, so there's that. There's a whole thing with like, well, it's evidence-based. Yeah, it's evidence-based. However, for some types of challenges, they're
00:08:26
Speaker
A good
Trigger Warning: Depression and Childhood Trauma
00:08:27
Speaker
solution. Yeah, they don't really do much. And you had really, I think, of all people, you've exhausted quite a few different modalities, so you're not a stranger to researching and trying to find all different types of things. It wasn't like you need to try therapy, and that was it. Yeah, and I've gone to, more recently, I obviously worked with a therapist over the summer, thankfully.
00:08:34
Speaker
not
00:08:57
Speaker
And this therapist was great and practiced via a modality called internal family systems, which I absolutely love and I think is an incredible model, had done other types of things before.
00:09:18
Speaker
But what did you feel, I guess, to lead in? What was your experience of... This is not the right term, but I think it resonates. What was wrong? What was wrong? I think...
00:09:32
Speaker
Yeah. I think before I answer that, this is something I've learned in grad school and social work school. I'm going to put up, I'm going to, I'm actually going to do this and I'm going to, I am going to throw up a trigger warning for anybody that is listening. Um, for the reason being, I have no problem talking about things openly and honestly,
00:09:58
Speaker
but I know that sometimes it can be very challenging to listen to and to hear. And I think the challenge with this platform is I don't know who's listening and I don't know what they have, like what you as a listener have going on. Some of this stuff can hit very, very close to home, either with yourself or others.
00:10:19
Speaker
And so I'll put up a trigger warning with the hope that you continue to listen and engage. And if you need to pause, then pause if you need to, you know, whatever, but, um,
00:10:33
Speaker
Yeah. I think the challenge with the thing with trigger warnings is a lot of people say, Oh, I don't want to get triggered. I'm not going to listen to it. But then what are we doing? You know, we have to, we have to keep our eyes and ears and our heart open. And so I'm going to say that just out of respect for, for who might be listening. What was wrong?
00:10:56
Speaker
Um, I don't know if I could say it perfectly at the time or over the past very long time, but I, I've, I have felt dead inside for a really long time. Um, like five years, 10 years, your life, my life. Yeah. For, for a really long time. That's what I mean. Um,
00:11:26
Speaker
I've felt numb and disconnected and dead and agonized by the knowledge that this is not living and almost inescapable. Depression, to put it mildly, has been part of my existence, I think, since I've been a kid.
00:12:01
Speaker
You know, there's definitely traumas that occurred.
00:12:11
Speaker
which led to a way of living that, you know, contributed to feeling dead, feeling not living, conflict, pain, all of that stuff. Um, and part of the challenge is that I knew, I know a lot of stuff like about, about mental health, about fitness, about all of it, like, but I couldn't really self administer and
00:12:42
Speaker
kind of create this change sort of that I needed.
00:12:48
Speaker
So it sounds like you had this state of depression,
Advocacy, Relationships, and Happiness
00:12:54
Speaker
state of not being able to access life and joy and some of those things, coupled with the knowledge and the awareness of what you're missing. And then that became kind of also a battle. So not only are you feeling sort of dead inside, but you're rationalizing and kind of trapped or imprisoned by your own mind.
00:13:18
Speaker
Yeah. And to be clear, that's not every second of every day. Right. You've experienced... It's not like you've met people like, well, I've seen Bill. He laughed and it's... But it's not like you've never had a happy moment, but we've obviously been very open and honest in our experiences and
00:13:40
Speaker
Yeah, there's a certain levity that just was not in existence. And there was sort of this down backslide. It felt like you would try to climb up and really try hard, but inevitably there's sort of be like this backslide down. And that's really, I mean, obviously it's a terrible way to live. It's also challenging for other people.
00:14:03
Speaker
family trying to, you can't fix someone. I can't make you happy. I can't fundamentally undo depression by something I do or say. And I think that is the challenge in mental health with loved ones because you are helpless in that regard. And there's always a wondering like,
00:14:28
Speaker
about like, how's this person doing? Are they getting better? That's been your struggle, our struggle for a long time.
Inspiration from Psychedelic Podcast
00:14:44
Speaker
When we listened to this and that resonated, that podcast,
00:14:50
Speaker
I think I've been somebody in your life that tries to advocate for you. And ironically, you were probably the first person to advocate for me when we met and gave me permission to really be happy.
00:15:06
Speaker
When you say I gave you permission, that sounds... I mean, up until that point, I didn't feel like I had someone in my corner to say, you deserve happiness. Whatever that means, you should seek it. Whether that meant staying married in my current relationship, whether it meant getting divorced, whatever that meant that I...
00:15:31
Speaker
for whatever reason, like I didn't feel like I had that permission to do that. And so in many ways, I feel like that's kind of been what I try to do for you and advocate for, because sometimes you're not, you feel like it's selfish or you don't want to burden or
00:15:48
Speaker
to advocate for yourself. So when we heard that, I really felt compelled that this was something we at least had to pursue or find out about or it just felt right. And it's amazing to have people in a community like we do. I reached out to Ben, our friend, and he made the introductions. And really, it didn't take long
00:16:13
Speaker
and you were booked or we were working out, when are you going to go?
Logistics and Safety of Psychedelic Therapy
00:16:20
Speaker
Obviously, you went on the 17th of January. Do you want to talk a little bit about the logistics of it so people know? There's a lot of stuff out there and I think it's important to note the logistics, the responsibility side, the prep work, those things.
00:16:42
Speaker
Yeah. So, you know, listening to podcasts over the past couple of years, you know, being in mental health, you can't ignore, I mean, you can ignore, but
00:16:54
Speaker
psychedelics and mental health are, there's a synergy there. It's an emerging treatment, a breakthrough treatment that's doing incredible things for depression, post-traumatic stress. Addiction.
00:17:14
Speaker
Thankfully, I had kicked alcohol. It's almost been three years now, but that's something I had done. It's minimal, but Copenhagen and smoked tobacco and nicotine, that's been way harder for me. Prior to going on the retreat, I had a good two months under my belt of nothing.
00:17:43
Speaker
Yeah, depression, trauma and addiction, which is very much like a triad of mental health deterioration. You know, which one came first in that regard? I mean, I'd probably say trauma, but it doesn't really matter also when you're in the throes of it. I mean, it does matter, but when you're in the throes of it, it's like, what, but what are we going to do? And so I,
00:18:08
Speaker
have paid attention to psychedelics in their inclusion in mental health. Johns Hopkins is leading the charge. Stanford's doing a lot of work. Stanford's doing work. University of Texas now, they just got a bunch of money to do a lot of work in no small part due to Amber and Marcus's work they're doing through vets and stuff. And so, yeah, it's an emerging thing.
00:18:36
Speaker
I was actually going to do an ayahuasca ceremony right before COVID you had planned with a friend of ours. Yep.
Arrival and Bonding at the Retreat
00:18:44
Speaker
Yep. And I had reached out to him. Um, not a veteran, not a veteran. No, not a veteran. This was shortly after. Yeah. Like a major meltdown, a brush with suicidality again. Um,
00:19:06
Speaker
But it got canceled because of COVID. And then, yeah, it was going to be a March of 2020, and then it got canceled. I was like, fuck. So this has been a treatment modality that I've
00:19:18
Speaker
wanted to explore. Right. And this situation, like there are different, obviously, so Veterans Solutions, they have a kind of a specific protocol, this pairing. So there's different psychedelics, but they have a specific protocol. And it is in Mexico because currently it's not offered in the United States. No.
00:19:42
Speaker
Um, but I was really impressed with how thorough like you had, um, and you're still working with a therapist. Is she, yeah, she's a therapist. She's an integration coach, but she's a therapist. Um, and you had three sessions prior.
00:20:02
Speaker
So I had two, I had two prep sessions and then three following. I just had my second of three before this actually. And she's been incredible. Really, really just legit clinician. Like, um, yeah, she's been awesome and super helpful. So anyway, so I did this, the actual,
00:20:27
Speaker
But okay, so hold on. So just to kind of paint the bigger picture. So you have prep, they set you up. So you have coaching prior because when you start listening to podcasts or learning about this,
Temescal Ceremony Experience
00:20:39
Speaker
yeah, there are people that just pick up and one day decide, oh, I'm going to do this. There's no support on the front end, on the back end. Like that's probably not ideal. So this is a very,
00:20:50
Speaker
formalized kind of support system. It's a small group. There were only three of you. There were more support than there were actual participants because of the guides, because of the medical staff. You had to get blood work. You got EKG. This was not just like show up with your yoga mat. No, no, no. It was a medical procedure.
00:21:12
Speaker
Um, full on. Yeah. So full on medical procedure. So you flew out San Diego. Um, this was a Monday to a Friday and you flew back on Saturday. So yeah, walk us through kind of. Yeah. So, um,
00:21:29
Speaker
So got to our site, got to our site or whatever. Yeah, met the two other dudes that I was with who were awesome. Got to our site, kind of just
00:21:46
Speaker
had like a circle and just connected and chatted and got to know each other a bit more, talked about some intentions and stuff and opened up. And right from the get go, it was like, okay, I feel like these are my people. We weren't talking about the weather and social media, we're talking about real shit. And they're both veterans. So these trips are only for veterans. Correct. Yeah.
00:22:15
Speaker
And so...
00:22:19
Speaker
So yeah, so we just kind of just started connecting right away. And then we did a temes cal, which is a traditional Mexican sweat lodge, which was really powerful. There was no substance in there.
Medical Safety and Ibogaine Expectations
00:22:37
Speaker
There was medicine in the form of herbs and whatnot that these older Mexican ladies guided us through. There was chanting. There was offering. It was just a beautiful,
00:22:49
Speaker
It was just a beautiful thing. It was hot. I mean, I must have lost like five gallons. Well, you sweat when you go to hot yoga. Like when we haven't even started. So I'm concerned about what was happening in the sweat. Oh my gosh. It was so hot.
00:23:06
Speaker
But it was like, it was, it was part of, that's one of the preparatory, like, sometimes there's yoga, sometimes there's different things. This was like, this is a new addition. Yeah. The Trevor, um, who is our lead, who is just a stud like this. He is just an absolute stud. Um, he recently discovered this and his, one of his partners, I guess, told him about it and he, uh, so we did it and it was beautiful. Like it was,
00:23:36
Speaker
Yeah, it was really, it was a really, really great way to start. And then, um, and then we, yeah, dinner, whatever. There was a full medical staff there the whole time. Um, they were on shift work. So you're under constant thing, you know, we have a room and whatnot.
00:23:55
Speaker
food, there was cooks there, there was great traditional food. And then EKG, a couple of your analysis because you have to, you know, they have to make sure that you're not clear. Yeah, that you're not on something. And so Tuesday night, we did Ibogaine.
00:24:18
Speaker
So the combination that they do at these retreats, the two medicines are something called Ibogaine and 5-M-E-O-D-M-T, otherwise known as toad venom. The toad. The toad. Yeah. Well, the Ibogaine was not Iboga is from the root, but this was... Iboga is from the root in Gabon, Africa, the Buiti tribe.
00:24:48
Speaker
And yeah, so Ibogaine is, I guess, the synthetic, which is better, more accurate for dosing purposes versus shedding the root. But this is something that grows there. It's used in initiation ceremonies. It's used in healing. All ages. All ages.
00:25:13
Speaker
it's an ancient wisdom it's a traditional it's a it's a it's a plant medicine you know it's something that has been used for many many thousands of years and to have a very deep respect for that i know what's crazy listening now that i've been listening to podcast they now they never really had
00:25:35
Speaker
an opiate crisis in Africa, and now they do, but it's also strange because they have their own cure in many ways. I'm not saying it's 100%, but it's a 90%. It's a very interesting situation. Yeah. Ibogaine has been shown to have a 90% efficacy in getting people off of heroin. Right.
00:26:02
Speaker
And it is amazing what this thing does to kind of completely reset and fix the opiate receptors in the brain. So what's, you are already, you obviously already had kind of like not really an issue with alcohol at this point. You haven't drank in three years and that wasn't really a,
00:26:22
Speaker
That wasn't that challenging for you. However, you have said since you've returned, everybody that knows us knows we're very big coffee drinkers. You've still not had a sip of coffee and not really an interest. And not to say that coffee is a... Coffee is a plant medicine.
00:26:42
Speaker
But anyway, um, so Ibogaine and 5MeO in the way they administer these is Ibogaine on Tuesday and then 5MeO on Thursday. They kind of space them out. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so Ibogaine has a, has a, has a reputation of being this astern grandfather. So I guess what it's referred to as generally not pleasurable. There could be some purging via vomiting.
00:27:10
Speaker
And it's a long 12 hours. It's a long thing, like eight to 12 hours dose dependent, um, or person dependent, I suppose. But anyway, we had like a really, we had, um, yeah, we had a, we started it off with like a little fire
Ibogaine Insights and Living in the Moment
00:27:26
Speaker
ceremony. We wrote down kind of what we wanted to let go and move on from, and, you know, obstacles went overcome and,
00:27:36
Speaker
I knew, again, I kind of knew I was at home when we put them in the fire. And I've had people do that exercise, not in that regard, but similar. There's a ceremonial component to that as a thing. So what were some of those for you?
00:27:55
Speaker
Um, do not want to share. I'm going to keep those to myself. Yeah. Um, yeah. Um, but relative to obviously what you started out the podcast, like
00:28:12
Speaker
whatever you felt to overcome feeling dead. I mean, that's not a secret. Yeah, one of the things I wanted to overcome was this state of, yeah, not feeling alive. I wanted to overcome not just constantly living in my head. Yeah, and I'll be completely transparent. I don't have emblazoned in my memory.
00:28:41
Speaker
I wrote on that piece of paper. It wasn't because they weren't important. They were some of the most important things in my life.
00:28:56
Speaker
don't even really recall exactly what I wrote. I know the essence of it, but... But that intention is a really big part of the prep. It's kind of... Yeah, it's huge. Because you connect to that and you did later in the experience. Yeah, for sure. For sure. So anyway, yeah, so it's a long, kind of a long thing. I actually had
00:29:22
Speaker
I had a peaceful experience, which is very rare for Ibogaine. I didn't have any visual hallucinations. I didn't have any auditory, really any auditory, like I wasn't really hearing things. I felt a presence. But when you think of a psychedelic experience,
00:29:45
Speaker
this was like, you're probably gonna think of lots of purples and pinks and kaleidoscopes and Grateful Dead and just, you know what I mean? Like, no, that was the furthest thing. And I actually was kind of like, I was actually really,
00:30:05
Speaker
I was getting agitated because I'm like, when the fuck is this thing going to kick in? Now it's worth mentioning that you are plugged in. You have a heart. You have a, you're plugged into a heart, like a medical grade heart rate tracker thing. Like there's a heart thing. There's a risk of heart stuff there. Um, which is again, why you have to get an EKG prior to we got an EKG when we were there.
00:30:35
Speaker
So my heart rate was 36 beats a minute when they plugged me in. It was 40 when I got there on Monday. And it was actually in the sweat lodge that somebody had said something about my heart rate. And I was like, yeah. And I had this realization that I've always had a low heart rate. I've always been fit, active, whatever.
00:31:03
Speaker
But I had this realization that I don't think my heart rate being low is a function of my fitness entirely. Rather, there's a lack of life in me. Like that's what I felt. And I felt this on Monday. I felt this not under the influence of anything. I felt this on Monday.
00:31:29
Speaker
And I believe that that's the case. Now, my heart rate's probably still pretty low right now, so it's not entirely, but I think that that is a thing. And so the other component is I'm not that fit.
00:31:45
Speaker
No, not now. Like I'm not, you know, the one that wants to beat bill in a workout. Now's your time. So you're plugged in during this experience. They're monitoring you. Yeah. So they're like, look, your heart is 36 beats a minute. That's the lowest we've literally ever seen. We're not, we're not sure what we're going to do. And I'm thinking, are you fucking kidding me? I'm going to, I came all the way down here and I'm not going to do this. And the Ibogaine was really the one that I was pretty much building up.
00:32:15
Speaker
You had expectations. I had expectations for it just because I've heard it's like, you say I've told some very few people, but I told a few people and they're like, Oh, what are you doing? I said, I began, they're like, Oh, you're going for it.
00:32:30
Speaker
which is why I think in this podcast, it's important to mention that the experiences people have are so different that if someone decided they were going to do something like one person's experience, it's not a cookie cutter type situation. So you can't really... The expectation part should really be monitored a little bit because... Yeah. And so anyway, so I...
00:33:00
Speaker
You had a peaceful experience. Well, right, but they gave me that and so they were like, we're not sure if we're going to give you a second dose. You don't just take all this stuff at once. It's a measured out, it's a precision guided experience. These are highly, these are professional. It was an incredibly professional situation. It was impressive how professional it was.
00:33:25
Speaker
And I'm like, okay. And I'm not feeling anything now. And they're like, okay, we're going to give you an IV to get your heart rate up. And I'm like, okay, sure. You know, basically whatever.
00:33:39
Speaker
whatever you decide. Like I had full trust and they're just just like, yeah, you know, and if they say we're not going to take the risk, then okay, I'll have to deal with that anyway. Um, all right. So, so I'm on an IV, which, you know, it's like, okay, I don't enjoy that necessarily. And then I've got things on me and so I'm laying there.
00:34:02
Speaker
it must've, I don't, I think it was maybe two to three hours ish and I'm like in my head and I'm like analyzing it and I'm waiting for this thing to hit. I'm waiting for something and I'm just, then I'm like, this isn't working. I can't believe it. Not that I doubted like this, but I'm like, fucking, how is it possible that this isn't working? This is one of the most powerful psychedelics available.
00:34:31
Speaker
and it's not doing shit on me. What the fuck? And I'm getting just super negative about it. Backsliding. Backsliding, yeah. Backsliding. Because I want to heal. I want to get better. I'm well aware of some of the... I'm well aware while not completely aware of the...
00:35:00
Speaker
the difficulty that my own living in mental health and stuff like that has on you and the kids and everybody who I come in contact with, which to some may be a surprise, but let that be a lesson there too. Anyway, so I'm all up in my head, what's going on? When is this gonna work? This isn't working.
00:35:25
Speaker
And I remember that Trevor had said, or his partner Brianna, who were just an amazing guide, they had said that somebody previously was like, hey, I'm not feeling anything or whatever. Because that was the thing, I wasn't really feeling anything. And they were like, well, what was your intention? And they were like,
00:35:48
Speaker
this individual's intention was to have a better connection to understand his wife's anxiety. Like, okay, well, what are you feeling? And he's like, anxiety. And they're like, so what was your intention? He was like, oh. And so they said that, you know, I heard that and I'm like, all right, so let me ask the medicine, like, hey, and I just asked it, like, what are you trying to teach me here?
00:36:15
Speaker
And there was this response of, why did you come here? And I had to sort of pause and think about my intention. I'm like, well, one of the reasons I came here was to stop living in my head and over analyzing everything and then turning it back on myself and destroying myself from the analysis.
5-MeO-DMT: Love, Unity, and Struggle
00:36:36
Speaker
And then it hit me and I was kind of like,
00:36:41
Speaker
Thank you. That's what you're showing me. And from that point, I was able to sort of relax and kind of surrender and move into this dreamlike kind of state. And for the first time in my life, I felt peace. Maybe not the first time, but the first time I can remember. I felt a sense of peace.
00:37:10
Speaker
that I haven't ever felt before. And it wasn't necessarily orgasmic or euphoric or anything like that. It was just this deep sense of peace. Well, I wondered too, and we haven't really talked that much about
00:37:25
Speaker
this, but I wonder if when you surrendered a little bit of the thinking, because if you're always so exhausted by the thinking and the thinking and the thinking, when you let that go, there's definitely a moment of just not being in your head. So that was... So that was Wednesday, that was Tuesday night.
00:37:49
Speaker
that went, I mean, basically Tuesday. So they're like, hey, Wednesday might feel like a really bad hangover. I didn't purge at all. Not that I was opposed to, I mean, I'd rather not throw up if I don't have to, but I didn't purge at all.
00:38:05
Speaker
Yeah, Wednesday you guys had a recovery. Wednesday was just like recovery. We were all kind of in the room at, I don't know what time we went to like our individual bedrooms, but yeah, time doesn't really matter in that regard. But I felt fine. Like I didn't feel like I, but I laid in bed. I was like, I slept. It was like a full on, but I didn't feel bad at all. I'm a little headache at first, but nothing really crazy.
00:38:31
Speaker
And I felt really good, like just really good, peaceful, felt connected to you, the kids, like just felt like, yeah, I just felt like really good. Like totally different. It was totally different than I thought. I honestly was expecting something much more violent. I was expecting something much more visually aggressive, you know, um,
00:38:52
Speaker
but as you would kind of find out like that probably prepared you there was a your particular experience was it was like important you had that experience yeah yeah yeah and so then Thursday was the other one yeah which is toad venom from a specific node or a desert toad dried toad venom and so that's
00:39:19
Speaker
It's a shorter experience. Seven to 20 minutes is like the average. Yep. And so we did that outside on this beautiful yard overlooking the Pacific, I guess. Yeah.
00:39:35
Speaker
sunny day. And so that's vaporized. So again, you're guided there. There's Trevor, Brianna, and then two medical staff. And each of you did it on, like you went for people around you and the next person. So it wasn't because there are, yeah, like not really what sounds like responsible administrations of this where people just get in line and
00:40:02
Speaker
they're handing this stuff out. Boom, boom, boom. One at a time. Yeah. Yeah. This was very much you and your support crew without a doubt. And so yeah, I mean, and at this point, you know, over the course of four days, they've established rapport. There's been connection, living with these people. So built safe and all that. And so, so it took the first dose and
00:40:33
Speaker
I mean, I can't articulate what then happened. Yeah, just like this feeling of complete and utter love and every, it was very somatic as well. And it's almost like every atom in my body was charged with love and this energy that was
00:41:01
Speaker
like this sense of oneness. That's what everybody kind of says. And so it was this heavenly kind of God. Yeah. Just, but not this deity necessarily, but just this unification of love and energy. What, and also like so many people might think, well, yeah, you're like high. Yeah. So like, yeah, that's what happens. You're high. Like, but yeah.
00:41:27
Speaker
But, but I've been high and like, I don't recall feeling, you know, like that, that oneness and that I think it sounds and I've never done any psychedelics, but did feel more profound to you.
00:41:44
Speaker
It was the most spiritual, spiritually profound experience of my life. And is that heaven? I don't know. It doesn't matter. Is the Sonoran Desertial God? No, but are you and us, are all things? I think yes.
00:42:10
Speaker
But it was, it was profound. It was spiritually profound. And so, and so yeah, I mean, and it was, and I was crying out of beauty, laughing. I mean, it was, yeah, it was a beautiful thing.
00:42:29
Speaker
And there was snippets of not so good. But generally speaking, it was, I think, mostly. They had said in the after, it wasn't entirely, but for the most part. But there was some resistance. I was budging up against something too during the first part. It wasn't just pure bliss. And then I came out of it or whatever, so probably 10 minutes or whatever.
00:43:00
Speaker
And, um, and I'm laying there and for as amazing as that was, there was this thing within me that just kind of said like, that's incomplete, you know? And so think of like climbing Mount Everest and being like, there's, I'm not, I'm not at the summit. Yeah, not at the summit, but like there's something missing, you know?
00:43:23
Speaker
And so I raised my hand or whatever it was like, I'd like a little bit more, please. And so the way that you kind of do is you can do like two, typically people do like two, maybe three doses of this. And I didn't do that to get higher. I want to be clear about that. I didn't do that because I'm like, I want to do that again. Like there was no bettering it.
00:43:46
Speaker
Right, you weren't chasing something. No, I wasn't chasing anything. And there was no there it extended beyond all comparative
00:43:54
Speaker
experience. That was it. Like there was this, you kind of get to the, you experienced love. And so when you experienced like, there's no more, there's no more of it. There was a felt this incompleteness. There was an incompleteness urging you to say, so that's why I said, I'd like a little bit more.
Confronting Darkness and Suicidal Thoughts
00:44:13
Speaker
Okay. So then I took another dose and I went into hell complete and utter hell.
00:44:25
Speaker
And it was the most horrifying experience. Like it was, it was, it was horrified. I was right. And hell. I mean, I think when you say that as many people think, Oh, like you were burning, like how many you were personal personal, what that would be for you relative to what you've been struggling with. Yeah. And so, um, I had hell to me is this,
00:44:53
Speaker
repetitive cycle of self destruction and an ultimate apathy. And I had, I got in this like, okay, for, okay. So I'll just say I had an exorcism, like a full on exorcism also. Um, because some of it is like you, you're saying things, you're moving your body. It's a very,
00:45:22
Speaker
You know, your nervous system is doing shit. And I think that's the thing that, you know, there's, there's a couple of things there. I mean, just people probably listening when someone hears that's like, okay, you've like lost your mind. That's fine. That's fine. Or I found it though. I mean, and, and, and I, and I think that, but I just want to say, if you have,
00:45:43
Speaker
But we'll accept certain things. There's trauma. We all accept that there's trauma. And people who know the body keeps a score, we know how trauma impacts people's bodies, disease, all these things. And so in the same way, why to release that, surely there would be that level of physical expression and what we call exorcism, to get it out.
00:46:09
Speaker
That's really what it is. Not your head spinning like poltergeist. Yeah, of course. But my body was contorted. My nervous system, which is the other part. We've been doing nervous system work for a long time.
00:46:25
Speaker
There's a lot of truth to it, but like guess what? The nervous system is more, the nervous system is more than just hitting the sled or sandbags or the bike or squats or like, like you're breathing. Like you want to see the nervous system in nature. Buckle the fuck up because we as humans don't really come in contact with our nervous system, unleashing its potential. We don't, we keep it contained for so much.
00:46:56
Speaker
So this was like a full on release. This was a full on release to the point of the 31 year seal.
00:47:04
Speaker
heard me having heard me and peeked outside and was like, oh, he's like, and he told me, he's like, bro, you scared the shit out of me. But his experience wasn't in the other two. Yes. Yeah. And I'm not going to talk about theirs. No, I'm just saying that this isn't like this, you do this, this is what happens. No, no, no. It was your experience. Yeah. Yeah. And so, so for the exorcism part, you know, it was a, I, I was,
00:47:34
Speaker
I was clearing evil and darkness out of me. That's what this did. I had to go into hell to do it. Yeah, and I think it sounds like, and we've talked about this, really showing you
00:47:56
Speaker
the worst extreme kind of what you've been living and if you don't change something, if something doesn't change, that is just a living hell. And then freeing that up to feel and experience what you hadn't felt before. Yeah. Ever since I was a kid, I actually remember this, my
00:48:21
Speaker
We're at a flea market down in Daytona. We'll go down there all the time. I grew up reading books, my dad's books about ninjas and samurais and I've always been interested in the East. The yin yang has always been my thing. I love that. I had this necklace actually.
00:48:42
Speaker
It was like a 90s kid. Everybody had a yin-yang necklace in the 90s. But I remember that. We've talked a lot about that. It's balance. It's the universe. It's all of that. So that's not like a new thing at all. But certainly, there was an experience of heaven and hell. And for me, I had this
00:49:05
Speaker
I had this, yeah, so I had this thing, I got on this loop, again, back to this self-destructive loop. I remember saying, and having this realization, okay, and that everything is nothing, and everything is nothing, and I kept going, and everything is nothing, and everything is nothing, and just talk about a spiral. Everything was this. Hell was this.
00:49:35
Speaker
spiral that ate itself. My head, I had this visual sort of thing. I wasn't seeing it, but I could experience it of my head eating itself. My head eating itself over and over and over and over again, and then I eat it and my head would eat it again. And that everything is nothing and nothing, absolutely nothing matters. And
00:50:06
Speaker
there was this surge of intensity from my throat up. It felt like my head was being put in a vice tourniquet. And then there was this black blob of just like looking into a wormhole pit that when I would
00:50:25
Speaker
have this realization that nothing matters and everything is nothing. And just this, this is just ultimate apathy. It would explode like a hang, like an explosion. It was loud and it was violent and it exploded and darkness got even darker somehow. And it would just do it again, do it again and do it again. And I had died. It felt like I died.
00:50:55
Speaker
and was in this eternal free fall loop, this self-repeating loop of apathy and, and hell and fucking A, it was scary. It was, it was horrifying. It was absolutely horrifying. Um, and then I kind of became aware of,
00:51:23
Speaker
my awareness, because time at this point like doesn't exist. And so feeling eternity, like I felt eternity in that regard. And then kind of became aware of it. And then my mind just, you know, was trying to get out of it and like, let go, let go, let go, let go, let go. But then again, that was
00:51:44
Speaker
And so my, you know, Trevor, who, who they're pretty hands off during this, like they're there is guiding. I didn't know four of them were on me at a certain point, like holding me down. I was rolling all around. Like it was, yeah, it was my, again, it was like, I wasn't doing it. My nervous system was doing that. It was getting, it was clear and evil. It was getting shit out. Um, and, uh,
00:52:14
Speaker
And so, you know, he intervened one time. He was like, hey, you're okay. You're okay. I was like, okay. Then let go, like, let go, let go. And he's like, hey, you don't have to try so hard to let go. And that brought me back to this little form of little Billy, like this younger component of me. And I saw him and, you know,
00:52:52
Speaker
I just told him it was okay. Yeah, home. I just really... Just connected to him.
00:53:23
Speaker
and just tried to feel love with him, and did. And that was how I came out of it, and took my time coming out of it. And, you know, just
00:53:48
Speaker
Yeah, I kind of came out of it slowly and like patiently almost like you're landing like a jumbo jet on a super windy day like okay easy easy easy like don't rush and yeah, I looked at the ocean and saw how beautiful it was and You know, I felt like okay, I want to live And it felt like I wanted to live And
00:54:19
Speaker
It was intense. So that, um, that was that. That was, and then the other two of my other, the other two dudes I was with, they did theirs. They had different experiences. They had what they needed. Um, so the rest of the day and the only just, and I was like, holy shit, like that was, I felt really good after it. Um,
00:54:48
Speaker
Yeah, you had. I felt really good after it. Yeah. Like was like, you know, like that was just whatever. And, uh, the rest of the day we just kind of hung out. We just laid low, you know, aid chatted. Um, and then we're going to go home or back to San Diego and, um,
00:55:09
Speaker
Friday. Friday, the next morning, 10 o'clock. So, you know, we just kind of like been tired. Like it was exhausting, you know? And so, um, we tried to go to bed. I tried to go to bed around, I think maybe eight or so. And I wasn't exactly tired, but like I, you know, was drained and, um, getting to bed, close my eyes and I'm back in hell.
00:55:40
Speaker
And I'm like, Ooh, okay. Okay. All right. Like, you know, first you're like, all right, yeah, right on. Of course, of course I'm gonna, I remember that. Like, why wouldn't I? That was just like four hours ago. Of course I'm gonna remember it. And so, like, all right. Yeah. Let's, let's, let's, let's reboot and do this again. Close my eyes, back and now I'm like, what the fuck? So for about an hour,
00:56:08
Speaker
two hours, I'm like, okay, I'm just not tired. Like it makes sense. I feel my body keyed up. Like I feel my nervous system. I've done enough somatic work to know what's happening, even though at that to that extent. No, like you like these, these plant medicines provide you access in ways that
00:56:32
Speaker
other things don't, you know, certainly not stuff found in the gym. Right. Um, and so I'm like struggling here, you know, I'm really struggling here. Um, and, and, and the five MEO DMT typically like clears your system. Like I could have operated a vehicle. I could have done a jump. I could have done, right? You're not under the influence. No, no, no. It's a, it's a, it's a right in quick and quick out. And so anyway,
00:57:01
Speaker
I, uh, I'm like re-experiencing hell every time I close my eyes and I am having thoughts. Like, and I'm aware and then, you know, I wasn't on my phone really at all, but then I go to my phone and I'm like, okay.
00:57:22
Speaker
You were going into like a paranoid state, you were Googling, you were coming up. Your brain was back in overdrive. My brain was back in overdrive. You were rationally like, I'm going to do this. The mind was working against me for sure. And I know, quote unquote, know enough about mental health and diagnosis and DSM stuff to know. I'm like, okay, I'm having a manic episode. Um,
00:57:49
Speaker
pretty much right out of the book, potentially having a psychotic episode as well. Yeah, you were now going to a place where you were decided that you were pretty much forever doomed. I had gone, in my mind, I had gone and I had Googled. Yeah.
00:58:07
Speaker
psychedelic-induced mania, psychedelic-induced schizophrenia, psychedelic-induced psychosis, like this, that, or the other. Basically, let me go find the reason, let me go find evidence that I'm fucked up, that I'm fucked for life. I had pretty much put myself in the psychiatric wing of the hospital on medication forever, and I had this thought that who I was was never gonna be there.
00:58:34
Speaker
And this was all night until the very morning. All night. Didn't sleep a blink. I blinked. I had a long blink at like 6 a.m. And you had texted Trevor and shared. Yeah, I had said I was super concerned, you know. And so whatever, I wound up showering and getting down and they're like, how's everybody going? And people were pretty good. And I was like, I'm fucking not good at all. Yeah.
00:59:00
Speaker
And they're like, okay, what's happening? Like, you know, what's your anxiety? I'm not really a high anxiety guy. Yeah. The one doc was like, okay, well, you know, on a scale of one to 10, what's your anxiety? I said it's about a nine. Yeah. And they're like,
00:59:14
Speaker
there was an option to take something. I'm like, no, I don't, I don't want to do that. I had texted with my coach Mia and she did an amazing job. You know, and she's like, she, she, she did an amazing job. And I gotta say exactly what she said, but you know, she, she was there.
00:59:32
Speaker
And one of the most profound things she said that really got me through, well, it wasn't telling me everything's going to be okay. It was telling me that this is, this is showing you exactly what you need to work on. And I had this feeling that I had this sense all night of evil trying to get back into me.
01:00:01
Speaker
And like every time I closed my eyes, it was like the evil was trying to come back into me. I don't want that. Uh, I don't want that, you know? And so I was like, all right. Um, yeah. And so like I had, well, I, I mean,
01:00:24
Speaker
Yeah, I had thoughts of this is why you should kill yourself.
Rebirth and New Appreciation for Life
01:00:27
Speaker
Yeah, because all of your stuff was still there, which is where I think for people thinking this is like claiming to be some fix or cure. No, it showed you what you needed to feel and see and you have to do the work. Yeah, and there's that whole famous thing of in Star Wars when
01:00:47
Speaker
Um, Luke goes, you know, Yoda brings him to the cave and he says, you have to go into the caves. And it's a classic Joseph Campbell thing, like thing of, you know, you gotta, and he's like, what do I bring? Or what's in there? He's like, whatever you bring with you. And so that night was my cave. Um, and I, to be completely, and this is where, you know, kind of the, some of the trigger warning stuff is like that night,
01:01:16
Speaker
in many ways, I confronted my own significant suicidality. And that's fucking hard. That was the hardest night of my life, for sure.
01:01:40
Speaker
like not even close. You see things and to your point where we started of healing and all of this and it's great. It's like the process. You think about a seed busting through its shell to create this plant. There's some pain in there and there's a lot of that.
01:02:04
Speaker
things and even watching someone cross the finish of some really hard thing. It's like, I want that. Yeah. Meanwhile, it's months and months of a lot of challenge. So, um, but, and so then the next day you were in San Diego. So then Trevor came and he was like, Hey, you're okay. You know, we had a big old hug and he gave me some coaching and he's like, and he, and he had kind of said that like, you know, you have more life in you. Like we see more life in you.
01:02:33
Speaker
And that was one of my intentions, to feel like I was living and to have more life for me and to feel alive. And I had told him about kind of like, I feel like there's like the evil is trying to get back in and he's like, then that means you got it out. And that's a beautiful thing. And I agree. And so again,
01:02:58
Speaker
I think it could potentially be missed because these medicines and these plants are so fucking powerful and they are, but the power of the guides, just how good they were,
01:03:22
Speaker
across the board from beginning to end, from pre to after. I just want to make sure that that is known. The human connection component. I asked Brianna, I just said, you guys do some amazing work here. I sit with people and I hear some things.
01:03:50
Speaker
Like from a clinical standpoint, like how do you, how do you kind of do it? She's like, we trust the medicine. They don't make it about them. They don't make it about them at all. They're, they're doing their thing. They're being present. They're, they're supportive and there's a, there's a belief and there's a connection there and it's, it's a really amazing thing. And you know, I think that you don't need to work with these medicines to
01:04:15
Speaker
to channel the essence of that. And I think that that's a good thing. So anyway, it felt a little bit better. I'm like, okay. But Friday, I was fragile. I was shook up. I was fragile. I was shook up and got back to the hotel and I was like, man, I don't know what the fuck is happening. And then reached out to Tim.
01:04:44
Speaker
who lives out there and Tim picked me up and Trevor and all of them were amazing and whatever, but Tim's up there too. Tim did a beautiful job, a perfect job.
01:04:59
Speaker
Yeah, he just let you kind of be and supported you. Yeah, just let me be. We were driving to San Diego. He's like, Hey, you want to, uh, you want to walk on the grass? He's like, I know you like that. I'm like, Oh, actually like, yeah, I do. Um, you know, and he just was an amazing soul. Um, cause I was still really, uh, like I don't, like there was, there was definitely a feeling of like, I'm not sure what, where I am on the safety meter here. Yeah.
01:05:29
Speaker
Um, and so, yeah, that was awesome. Uh, Tim and his friends, Stacy, like they did a poll class and I took his dog for a walk and it was a great walk. It was a beautiful walk. I talked to you and then, uh, you know, I had an early flight next morning and so I went back to the hotel and I'm like, all right, like this is kind of like game time again.
01:05:57
Speaker
And I was concerned. I was definitely concerned. But I was thinking, all right, well, we'll see. And so I closed my eyes. And shortly thereafter, I started to re-experience some of the joy.
01:06:17
Speaker
of the five MEO without the heart. And then I would kind of wake up and it was kind of like waiting for something bad to happen. And so I went through a couple of cycles of this. And then on like the third one, there was this like giant finger kind of like top of the whatever that, what's that? That Michelangelo painted with God and the thing. It was kind of like one of these,
01:06:43
Speaker
One of those fingers, I was this little spitty, I was in the universe and there was this little bitty speck. This finger was kind of pushing me almost like you'd push against a balloon.
01:06:55
Speaker
like full of air kind of deal. And I was like, what's this? And that was the first I seen it. And then I heard this kind of voice just say, you're with God now. And I had this huge inhale, like, and like sat up in my bed and then opened my eyes and then like exhaled and then cried a little bit.
01:07:20
Speaker
And then kind of like close my eyes and open them. And I was like, Oh my God, I feel amazing. And it was like a re it felt like a rebirth. And, uh, man, I felt alive.
Integration and Embracing Spirituality
01:07:34
Speaker
Um,
01:07:36
Speaker
and went to bed a little bit, got up, went outside early, early flight, looked up at the stars. Again, I had another little emotional release and just felt really good and came back and had a good flight home and obviously saw you and that was, yeah, cried and
01:08:02
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I just feel love and, you know, right. So now we're two weeks out and for sure that those first two days home and, and, you know, they're very clear on, there's like a,
01:08:18
Speaker
process with this. So once you're beyond that first initial kind of thing, there's what you're in now, which is like integration. And the other thing is you came home and we had a couple of days, but then Tuesday you were back in the city at school. Yeah, I talked to me and she was like, whoa, okay. Yeah, that's tough. So going right back in to commuting to the city and back in
01:08:43
Speaker
you know, and back at the VA too, where there was a couple of things that happened that, you know, were sad. So you're not exactly in a, none of those things are low stress. You know, you're not, there was a lot to come back to. Yeah. Yeah. But I think the thing is like the one thing that has been consistent is this,
01:09:10
Speaker
like how you are approaching things is definitely different, you know, just, and again, like some of it's like not for public, you know, whatever, but just, yeah, just a different, you're coming from a different place where you're living from. It doesn't mean that this is not a like fix for like, Oh, you're just forever high or something. It's, it's just like, yeah, the approach is different. You're coming from a different place. Um,
01:09:38
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, there, there was a couple of things that I would just say, like, just to kind of go through, maybe not super in depth with, but number one, I, um, I feel this connection to a higher power. Yeah. I recognize. Yeah. Like I recognized one of the things that the, that my experience showed me was how much of a spiritual void
01:10:08
Speaker
I've had in my life and in my system and how frankly I've filled it with darkness. I've said for a long time,
01:10:22
Speaker
I don't know. I'm not sure if I want to actually say what I've said. Maybe I won't to you. No, I'm not going to say it. Um, but you know, in the absence of something positive, something negative, perhaps we feel that. And so, you know, and, and, and I'm not a victim, like, you know what I mean? I think I want to be very clear about that. Like I'm not, this isn't like, Oh yeah, your life has been so hard. Everybody's life is hard in this and that. But some of it is like without intention.
01:10:50
Speaker
weeds grow through cracks and it's easy to miss them. And so for me, the lack of the spiritual void got filled with
01:11:04
Speaker
with darkness. And so this helped me kind of clear that. And so that's been a positive thing, really looking more for that. And really, I have had this deep, I have had this kind of just this insight of living through my heart. And I've kind of been putting together some things for a little bit.
01:11:32
Speaker
For a while now, but like this actually what's amazing about this is like some of the system stuff of You know living from living from your heart and what does that mean? Well, I don't know. I can't tell you you know, like that's something that each of us has to do There's some techniques and there's some stuff for sure that you can do but that's the self-empowerment that needs to happen on each person and you do one of the things that these medicines do is they provide you an opportunity to
01:12:02
Speaker
to be who you want to be in many ways. It's like freeing you up. Being an active participant in your life requires a degree of honesty with oneself that can be jarring and there's a responsibility you have to you that can feel overwhelming.
01:12:28
Speaker
there's no mincing of those words. And so that's been a big one. Yeah, and that's the point from an outsider not having experienced this, but yeah, that is very much felt. But we've also had
01:12:51
Speaker
it does change things and it changes the dynamic and you've been living a certain way and now things are different and even if it's for the better, it's different. All these pieces when you're not living in a vacuum. And so it's not to say there aren't hard days or challenges or life is still going on but
01:13:12
Speaker
you know, definitely. And continuing, I think for you, it's also had you face some things that maybe you do need to change in life. And if you choose to not change them, you know, that's where there are people that go and do ayahuasca or do a psychedelic and don't change anything. And then they just keep going back for more. And, you know, you've said like, there's no real need
01:13:35
Speaker
it's not like, oh, I got to get back there. It's really an experience that showed you something. It was profound and had healing and now the work is to go back is kind of like an escape. Now it's like, well, now you know, and it's not an overnight thing to change everything in your life either. It's knowing where you'd like to go and what you need to do to get there. Yeah.
Belief, Uncertainty, and Community Support
01:14:00
Speaker
And I think one of the things that I want to talk about actually is this knowing.
01:14:05
Speaker
And there's different types of knowing. And there's knowing with our minds, which we don't know shit. And then there's this knowing with your soul. There's this belief. I've talked about this in Sporaction actually, but my take on belief is that it's truth without proof. And I think that's the type of knowing that... Well, it's like faith.
01:14:33
Speaker
Yeah, very much so. You know, there's confidence, which is knowing, no, I know I can do this. Like, I know if I drop this water bottle, it'll go down. And like, there's confidence I can hit this wave. And this is, this has been a, this has been a, there's proof, there's data, there's proof, there's known, there's there's concreteness, I can put this, I can contain this bit of data, this bit of information within a frame within a realm, that my consciousness can process and understand. And what
01:15:03
Speaker
what belief and faith is, is so much more expansive than that. It's infinite to that. There is no possible way we can contain it, that we can capture it. And as soon as you try to, and I've found myself like with this, you know, like, okay, but I want to like make sense of it. And it's like, no, no, you don't. That's been your approach for so much, even when we look at between the ears or your life for your path, like,
01:15:32
Speaker
it's been really hard for you to just believe and trust and I don't know and just go forward. It's really been that wanting to make it contained, wanting to know, wanting to have the proof, the data, forcing it. And so that freedom- Forcing it and trying hard. There was a part during my experience where I had this
01:15:54
Speaker
this, this thing with like, and there was, there was anger there and it went from like telling myself to try hard to anger, trying hard to crying because I've tried hard my whole fucking life and you know, this, this thing. And that's a very thing. Yeah. And, and, and so I think, you know, what's challenging is there is a lot of like, there's a lot of lip service given
01:16:17
Speaker
to letting go. There's a lot of lip service given to, no, just don't worry about the data or... Right. But it's like actually doing that for most people also contained in their life and what they have going on. I mean, great. How? Yeah. And that's the thing. And it's very, very challenging. And so I think that's where one of the things is accepting
01:16:46
Speaker
and actually like, uh, I keep saying like, but accepting and celebrating just how limited we are. Well, how little, and how little we know. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and how there is, and that, that is, that is overwhelming. That's jarring. That can be overwhelming, but in many ways it's also,
01:17:15
Speaker
there is a surrender in that. There's a surrender. There's so little we really can't control, so. And I think the one thing with that is like, for me, what this has been doing and reinforces, this isn't, someone could maybe listen to this and be like, yeah, no shit, no, no, no, that's fine. But it reinforces where life is in the present. And so when you experienced this ego death,
01:17:45
Speaker
When you experience heaven and hell, when you experience who you are and the fact that we're this, this connectedness, and when you experience just how like, I mean, insignificant in the form of like this form we're in, not that life, life is not insignificant. There's nothing more significant than the energy of life and love and all of that. But when you experience that and how
01:18:15
Speaker
Yeah, this is temporary. That can be, again, really, it could be sad, it could be challenging, it could be hard, but it's an invitation to live life in the present also. And that's not to say, obviously, forget about the future or whatever. It's not about being responsible, it's about honoring life. And yeah, when you honor life today, it might also mean, yeah, hey, doing something, not doing something today,
01:18:43
Speaker
you're going to be thankful for tomorrow. And so there is this vector back towards the present and back towards living and feeling and all of that. And again, it's worth noting too, this is two weeks in. This is early in the integration. Right. So that's kind of where we're at.
01:19:12
Speaker
But yeah, we're so grateful for... And it's not to say this, and I think it's to be clear, we're not suggesting this is like, go everybody, go out and have this experience. We're sharing your experience, something you've struggled with. We're grateful for
01:19:34
Speaker
you know, the vet's organization that, I mean, one of the reasons they, the tipping point for them was the, when they went to Chad Wilkinson's funeral and they just felt this tremendous responsibility, like we have to do this.
01:19:50
Speaker
And not to get into, there's all sorts of things also with psychedelics with repairing the brain, that trauma from actual impact to the brain. And so there's a lot, but I think it's an amazing thing to have these dots connected, people we've met in our life.
01:20:13
Speaker
community that it's not like we talk to Ben all the time, but just how things line up. Now, moving forward, we certainly want to support and pay that forward. 100%. There's an event coming up that you're going to do and represent veteran solutions. Different organizations are involved, but it's basically the David Goggins challenge.
01:20:38
Speaker
four miles every four hours for 48 hours. They're hosting it down in Houston. So your fundraising for that and the money you raise is going towards veterans solutions. Yeah. So my goal is to have two veterans experience to pay for those two. Yeah. And so that my goal is $7,000. It's too human. It's two lives. That's my goal. And I'm asking for help. I'm asking for everybody's help.
01:21:10
Speaker
to potentially save someone's life. So I better start running.
01:21:23
Speaker
You're going to try something different and train for this one. I really tried something different and the running shoes are bright. They're blue and yellow. We're looking at these neon yellow blue shoes. But just also to note, if someone is interested in also running it,
01:21:42
Speaker
I'm going to run it maybe the weekend before because I'm going to go and volunteer. If you want to get involved. Yeah, we would love to have you involved. Message us, please. Message us. It's March 4 to 6 is when the event is. That's put up a thing, and I was off of social media pretty much, maybe two minutes a day, responding to some messages or whatever. I was off of social media, and I was going to delete it entirely.
01:22:12
Speaker
part of this is, well, part of it is like this, like, don't be selfish, actually, is kind of what I'm feeling now. And, you know, if deleting, it might be running away from running away from something. And it's like you open, you open a door and
01:22:30
Speaker
you know, you see sort of this dark, messy, scary closet or room or whatever, like, ah, fuck it, I'm just gonna shut the door. And it's like, no, go in there and turn the fucking lights on. You have to kind of learn to live with it in a healthy way. And I want to use it in a manner that is in line with sharing the light. Yeah, it is powerful. There's some people I know, you know, there's people that I have not met in person.
01:22:58
Speaker
Yeah. Who have changed your life. I mean, that's crazy. Yeah. And likewise, there's clients that I've never met in person. I mean, they're clients, but I would do anything for them. And there's people that rush. So there is a way to connect. There's a value. And I also want to have, I want to actually start a group. Yeah.
01:23:28
Speaker
And I've been talking about it for a while, different than necessarily between the years. I want to bring people together. And I think we all, I think I know we all need connection. I know we all need support. And I am going to start a group that's based upon that, connect
01:23:49
Speaker
come together to support and just to be a human with each other. And what's cool is that's something you have talked about for a while and you struggled to kind of take action, but I think... Yeah, take action and you know why? Because it's like, what is it going to be? What are we going to do? What am I going to tell them? It's going to be this, it's going to be that and it's back up in my head. And so it's like, fuck it, we'll figure it out. But the point of that is they had put up a thing that they were looking for volunteers. So I thought we were just going to run it here.
01:24:14
Speaker
And then they were like, hey, no, you want to go do it. So if you want to do it, you can do it from anywhere. You can contribute. But yeah, we need your help. And it is very much a paying it forward kind of deal. I'm incredibly grateful. And I feel the love from not only from Ben and Marcus and Amber
01:24:41
Speaker
Trevor, Brianna, and all the bed staff down there, and Tim, and you. That's maybe the starting lineup of the people that made this happen. But I also feel the love from those who are rooting for me. And that... I'm getting emotional again, man. That really...
01:25:07
Speaker
to feel that it feels really good. And I know there's a lot of people that are rooting for me. And I know in the past, people have said, hey, I'm thinking about you, I'm praying about you. And it never like, it sounds, I don't mean to sound like whatever, but it never reached me to this point. It stayed in my head. And I don't know, there was a block around my heart or something. And so I know that there are people out there
01:25:37
Speaker
Yeah. And we have some amazing community. Yeah. And so it's like, don't be selfish and don't hoard and share it. And so that's kind of what we're looking for. And I'd love to have people part of it, not only for this event, but moving forward as well.
01:25:52
Speaker
Yeah, and not that it's as soon, but in June, I'm going to do the Frogman five-case swim. That's through, well, we're supporting the step up project, Sarah's fundraising. So that'll be another opportunity. And just whatever, you know, I thought about it the other day that we have these physical, we are fit, we are capable. You're fitter than me. Well, right. But able to,
01:26:22
Speaker
Yeah, support in these ways. And so I'm happy we can do that. So definitely, if you want to get involved in anything, reach out. Yeah, let's talk. Anything. So that's the update. Hopefully, we'll be back on sooner than later. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, I don't think we forgot anything. You're giving me the look like, let's go. Well, people, once we reach the 1.30. What is it? Oh, well, we still got three minutes to waste time.
01:26:50
Speaker
All right. Um, appreciate you listening. Um, appreciate you supporting anyway, but yeah, please, um, go to my Instagram, go to Kay's Instagram. Uh, I guess it'll be on the description thing here. Yeah, we'll put a link in the show notes. It's in the show notes. Yeah. The production staff will do that. Um, but yeah, no, in all seriousness, um, yeah, you know, if you've been,
01:27:18
Speaker
part of our journey. I thank you. I really do. It means a lot. It means everything. And I'm looking forward to evolving and having to be positive. So until next time.