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00:00:01
Moving On from BTE.
353 Plays6 months ago
K and I share the back story of why we are rebranding BTE Fitness to Holotropic Fitness. To go where we are trying to go and move forward with intention, it's important to understand where we are coming from, how we got here, and what we need to let go of.
We are excited to improve how we communicate and present our approach to fitness in a way that guides those who are looking for a comprehensive, non-dogmatic, and effective movement practice.
We share 2 offerings for how people not local to us can learn our approach, get involved, and experience what is 100% a unique approach unlike anything else out there. Our approach is advanced while also being simple and straight forward without any of the hype or nonsense that is rife in the fitness industry.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Transition
00:00:01
Bill Anthes
Hello. Hello. We're here. For now. For now. Final podcast of the year. Final and first podcast of the year. Yes. Yes. Now we're we're back on the podcasting scene. We've been juggling quite a few things and, um, but for what we're going to talk about today, we felt like it was really important. We've been wanting to do this podcast for a while. So yeah happy to be doing it right before the new year.
00:00:31
Bill Anthes
Yeah, I like this time of year to reflect on the previous year and to idea ideate about the upcoming.
Upcoming Changes and Evolution of 'Between the Ears'
00:00:42
Bill Anthes
And this is a great time to, I think, announce this change, this update in this time of change between years and whatnot. so Yeah, it's kind of like, I think this time of year and um sort of like this nice pause, like liminal space between and people kind of slow down and in that slowing down, there's that transition. So for us, it's exciting because there are a lot of new things coming in 2025. So it's not just like personal goals or ideas.
00:01:14
Bill Anthes
But what we really wanted to talk about in a thorough way, because people have asked, and I think this was like a great way to address it, was go through what's coming up, how we got here, um yeah and just kind of where are we're going. So. So we're killing between the ears. No. Kind of. things and Things need to die in order to regrow. There's a regeneration, I would say.
00:01:41
Bill Anthes
Yes, but we are not killing Between the Ears. Between the Ears is bifurcating. Is that the right word? If it's splitting in two, yeah. It will split. But for us, I think we see that more as a exciting kind of evolution and defining like what Between the Ears is and what it isn't. Yeah. So when we look back at how Between the Ears started, and I think we've talked about this a lot in previous podcasts,
00:02:12
Bill Anthes
but kind of where it it began really was like events and these like challenging endeavors that access something for people emotionally, mentally, obviously physically.
History and Transformation of 'Between the Ears'
00:02:25
Bill Anthes
Um, and that's really like the origins of between the years. Wouldn't you say like, how would you define what to you between the years has meant? Well, I think I'm going to not go into the,
00:02:38
Bill Anthes
Keep it personal rabbit hole because between the years has been a reflection of my own evolution and journey personally, honestly, since getting out of the army. Between the years started as it was a simple calling.
00:02:56
Bill Anthes
Challenge your body, push your mind or push your body, challenge your mind. Simple. Uh, in the sense that that was the intention. It wasn't just like, Hey, get really good at exercising.
00:03:08
Bill Anthes
or meditate and journal like it between the earth has always viewed the body and the mind to be the same two sides of the same coin and using experiences that got people completely outside of their comfort zone to glimpse into how these two things are connected.
00:03:34
Bill Anthes
Yeah, it wasn't just either doing the hardest physical thing you could think of. There was purpose in the physical challenge and without the mental insight or emotional insight, you know, the challenge with the physical challenge was not important. Like it had to have both components. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, that was, that, that looked like it was events. It was meet at the gym at,
00:04:05
Bill Anthes
10 o'clock at night and get in a van. We're going to go to a ah ah trailhead and we're not going to, you have no idea what's going to happen. Like it was, it was truly unknown for people. All they knew is where to show up, what to bring. If, if, you know, if they needed anything else, it was provided. And no phones, no phones, none of that, none of that. And those were really awesome. And then.
00:04:35
Bill Anthes
We adapted those to, okay, it's winter in New Jersey and can't really safely do that stuff outside anymore. Let's have some indoor experiences using, uh,
00:04:53
Bill Anthes
using the gym, using movements, simpler movements, stuff like that. And it was like this combination between personal development self-improvement and fitness and exercise. And that, that was then like, okay, we're going to do that. And then that launched into online programs where there was like a workout and a mindset and something to think about. And then we started, you know, putting in journaling, targeted journaling, guided journaling.
00:05:27
Bill Anthes
Right. And during that time, it was shifting into more like like um the dose that was more of like one workout a week. It was more like getting into more traditional type um fitness, not not just like an expedition through the woods in the middle of the night. So it was sort of expanding into like, OK, maybe it is thrusters and burpees, but there was like a mindset component to it.
00:05:54
Bill Anthes
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was like these little like, kind of called like these, I, we, we, we refuse to use the term because it's just, it was at the time also me, I saw a lot of people using this just to capitalize, but they were like these mini Misogies and that became like the whole thing, you know, I'm so give this Misogi that, and you know, this is just my own personal kind of pet peeve, but like when everything becomes a catchy phrase and the essence is extracted,
00:06:21
Bill Anthes
part of the elements of Misogi is not that it's hard, it's that you're like, is my life going to end right now? right And so if something is challenging, like the assault bike is challenging, there's no fucking way you think your life is going to end. So like, sometimes it does feel like it, but you know, it's, yeah, but that's what I'm saying. Like when everything becomes this X, this, this, um, what's the word for like the pow wow bams in comics, what's the,
00:06:47
Bill Anthes
exp explicit expletive? no I don't know. you know but Yeah. But the point being, it it kind of waters it down and and then you become numb to it and it it doesn't have the same um emotional impact.
Clarifying Misunderstandings and Purpose
00:07:02
Bill Anthes
Yeah. And like, I honestly think that, you know, it's almost like this might offend some people, but like, it's like the Me Too movement.
00:07:12
Bill Anthes
for fitness stuff. Now, obviously, that's applied in a sort of yeah i think casual setting. But what I'm saying is like it's all of like, oh, I do that. Oh, I do that. Oh, I do that. And and it's not the me too in terms of like there's something wrong with it. But it was like, oh, yeah, we do this. We do this. I can't tell you how many times people have told me they do between theirs, and they've never done between theirs, and they don't get it. But they think it's like something that it's not. Sure.
00:07:36
Bill Anthes
Yeah, and it's when it loses it's I think the point about the me to movement is unfortunately it takes away from the validity of what it is when it just becomes overused or probably perhaps misused so that kind of approach with between the ears people just thinking something hard physically.
00:07:55
Bill Anthes
is it between the ears, but really, for us, to what we started with, it had to have that mental component, um reflective component, and I think people kind of sometimes lacked that piece, it just was something hard. So, but really, when we look at what between the ears has become,
00:08:13
Bill Anthes
training for an event, doing something challenging, really, um you know, ah but not an everyday practice. This is not meant to be every day. Yes.
00:08:30
Bill Anthes
where that kind of led to though was you had, when we've talked about this in the podcast, as far as everyday fitness was concerned, you started having some questions about CrossFit years ago and some pitfalls and areas that were kind of lacking in questions. So when you went to open your own fitness operation, yeah brick and mortar. Yeah.
00:08:54
Bill Anthes
It was kind of natural like, Oh, just you take between the ears. the right So we opened between the ears fitness. Yeah. So that has been now four years. We opened right during the pandemic. Yeah, four years. Yeah, four years. And some things carry over for sure, from like that, the tenants of between the ears.
00:09:19
Bill Anthes
But between there's fitness is much more of a daily fitness practice. That's, that's what the gym was about. People coming in every day, not people coming in and just doing some crazy thing. No, no. And I think what's interesting about that is the people who would generally gravitate towards doing the between the ears events.
00:09:45
Bill Anthes
Locally, obviously, people aren't going to like move here. you know ah People that would do those events didn't come join the gym. They pretty much stayed in the CrossFit world and ecosystem for their reasons. you know um And I would say that that was a little surprising, to be honest with you, and to each their own.
00:10:10
Bill Anthes
you know
00:10:13
Bill Anthes
But that's what's kind of interesting about it. The between the ears fitness methodology has nothing to do with the between the ears events and programs and mini misogies or the dose or the practice or the vector project. This personal development meets fitness, which is very confusing. I don't say the same name. Well, of course. And that's what I'm saying. Like I don't,
00:10:41
Bill Anthes
That's why we're sort of killing between the years fitness in the sense. And I'm kind of joking about that, but like, not really, but the two are separate,
Introduction to Holotropic Fitness
00:10:49
Bill Anthes
right? There's your event. There's your challenge. There's your show up in the middle of the night. And then there's your, what are you doing on Tuesday morning? What are you doing as a, as a consistent, it's kind of like you go out to a really nice restaurant sometimes every now and then.
00:11:08
Bill Anthes
How are you cooking? How are you eating as of every day? Yeah. And so I think we've not, I wouldn't say struggled with this, but for us, I think we've taken time to, and I do appreciate that about you, that you're very thorough. You don't make any rash decisions.
00:11:31
Bill Anthes
And I think it's taken us kind of to this year to really look at like, okay, what what do we do at the gym? How is that confusing, you know, kind of having a solution for it? I think we've known for a while, like, okay, this is confusing, this isn't quite the same, you know, where where are people getting tripped up? what What do we want this to really um be defined as? And now we're at a point where we're actually taking action and have a solution. yeah So the solution is, to your point, we are not killing between the ears. And we're going to talk a little bit about like, okay, well, what will remain with between the ears. But what's exciting is.
00:12:11
Bill Anthes
we are kind of transforming between the ears fitness into what it really more appropriately is. And that new name is holotropic fitness. So you came up with holotropic and while that's not a name that or you came up with the name of that for the gym, while that's not a word that most people are familiar with, can you explain kind of why and Yeah, so holotropic, holotropic, the term comes from a very famous psychiatrist named Stanislav Graf, who is a legend in the transpersonal space and the psychedelic space and all of that. And he developed a way of breathing yourself into a non ordinary state of consciousness once the government said,
00:13:04
Bill Anthes
LSD is a public health risk because, you know, God forbid people want more peace and less war. um So anyway, when he was and he was an LSD researcher, like like legit, like doing it legitimately,
00:13:20
Bill Anthes
But when that became no longer viable and accessible, him and his wife at the time came up with a way of breathing yourself into a state which very closely had similarities to what patients of his would to be describing and going through in a LSD or non-ordinary state of consciousness. And he came they he came up with the term holotropic.
00:13:49
Bill Anthes
coming from the Greek holos meaning whole and tropic meaning movement towards. So holotropic meaning moving towards wholeness.
00:14:02
Bill Anthes
So rewind. in the last like 20 end of 22 to 23. I'm in a psychedelic assisted therapies, year long training cohort through psychedelics today called vital. And part of that part of the graduation sort of project is to come up with a you know, like a project and it could be anything. It could be a meditation. It could be an art drawing. It could be a business idea. and they're just like, just come up with a project. How are you gonna use the information? Because so many different people were part of this. um And it hit me in that course. And and how are we gonna use this to have a fitness application towards preparation and integration for a psychedelic
00:14:58
Bill Anthes
assisted therapy for a retreat or whatever it might be. Because so many of the principles of between the ears fitness that we've been doing for the past four or five years are steeped in therapeutic underpinnings, things like the nervous system, things like breath control, things like body awareness,
00:15:23
Bill Anthes
things like acceptance and and just a willingness to accept the fact that you're maybe at a suboptimal situation. So it was kind of this like amazingly serendipitous invitation and really push to synthesize what we've been working on for the past five years and and and and before that, but really in the day, working with you know people every single day, coming up with this stuff,
00:15:53
Bill Anthes
And I briefed it, and it went really well. And I got some really great feedback and some really meaningful words of encouragement from the you know from the facilitators and from my my classmates. I was like, yeah, right on. And as we kind of, as I kind of told you about it, and it was kind of like, hey, you know this is kind of more in line, actually, with what we're what we're doing at the gym.
00:16:20
Bill Anthes
Obviously, we're not dosing anybody. and Yeah. and And I want to like make that clear because I think that can get confusing to people. like Your interest pursued education training in the psychedelic sphere is not um you you know that that had a place in, obviously, like the meaning and kind of how the body and and all those things like onboard like that that experience.
00:16:51
Bill Anthes
but that has nothing to do with what we do at the gym or in our methodology. so What do you mean, though? I mean, it's like there's no dosing of people with psychedelics other than the fact that like for people who don't know, a psychedelic experience can challenge your body, it can challenge your mind.
00:17:11
Bill Anthes
Yeah. Emotionally. And so that project, the bridge, was really about like teaching yourself the signaling and experiencing different body sensations to better kind of have that awareness versus going into a psychedelic experience and having this body experience where you're like, what's happening to me? So that that was kind of the connection of those things, but not to be confused with when people come in here on a Monday morning, psychedelics don't have anything to do with it. No, other than, other than, and this is something we've been saying for a long time, how we approach movement and how we engage our bodies is also tapping into and experiencing consciousness differently. Yeah.
Mind-Body Connection and Holistic Fitness
00:18:00
Bill Anthes
So when you talk about psychedelics, is it the mushroom? Is it the is it the actual substance? sure Is it the experience? Is it the prep? is What is it? And I don't have the answer for it. It's a really cool conversation to have. I had a incredibly spiritual experience.
00:18:19
Bill Anthes
like deep spiritual experience without any mind altering substances doing a traditional Mexican sweat lodge. I mean, that was probably the most, at the time, the most spiritually significant experience I had out of Mexico doing that sweat lodge. And we did not ingest, there was like herbs and plants there, but there was no psychoactive components.
00:18:43
Bill Anthes
I've had spiritual experiences walking through the grass with bare feet. I've had spiritual experiences or or just like like experiencing consciousness differently, doing some of the overnight events, doing some of the workouts. So like all of these it all of these little ingredients to this two sides of the same coin of how do I experience my body and mind? How do they impact and influence each other?
00:19:11
Bill Anthes
um And I think it's important to, you know, we experience a spiritual side. I think the main thing that's so interesting is for the last five years, people have talked about mind-body connection. That's like the catch thing. Yoga. Oh, like now that's the trend in fitness. Oh, mind-body connection. One of the things we've said for many years is like, great. Now tell me how you, you excavate that, how you experience it. And most fitness practices don't really have a way.
00:19:42
Bill Anthes
And so this is relevant of like maybe you're not coming in on a Wednesday and having a spiritual experience. um You are experiencing more than just the physicality of your body and and that what you're talking about is like a state. so yeah Most people understand it. I think the easy example for this is like if you go for a long jog or a long walk in nature, that's one type of experience. People would generally, oh, I felt like runner's high, or you get into like a trance, or there's there's that feeling versus if someone were to get on the assault bike and sprint for 20 seconds with everything they've got, or push a sled, or even a heavy strength session. I think when people think about your experience of those two, it's not just physically what you're feeling.
00:20:30
Bill Anthes
what's going on in your head, your thoughts, your body sensations from an emotional side, those are very different. And so what we're saying is we have this range and you know connecting that to not just like the things that are important to move your body for your health, but how you experience life and and really to truly optimize your world outside of the gym, because that's kind of what we care about the most.
00:21:00
Bill Anthes
Yeah, and just one last thing on the spiritual component of it, because I know that can certainly turn some people off, especially, you know, people who have a materialistic view of the world or just look at everything as only biology or or whatever it might be. When your body and your mind are perfectly connected and collaborative, that is like a lock in a key to access the spirit. Anybody who has had that experience knows exactly what I'm talking about, and it's not about deities, it's certainly not about religion or dogma or any materialistic institution
00:21:44
Bill Anthes
It is about, the spirit is about the ineffable, the thing that you know to be true with the capital T, but you can't explain it. And there's no real proof to it. And so when the mind and the and and and what do we even mean by that? And, you know, whatever, that's going to, again, be a whole separate, like go explore it. But when the mind and the body are truly connected, that is then when you sort of have this alchemy of sorts, which then you access the spiritual.
00:22:13
Bill Anthes
and it's not doves and light and Jesus and robes and and and and whatever the higher power is, but it's something more than just your bones and your ligaments and your thoughts. It's definitely something more than that. Yeah, it's a transcendence. It's a transcendence, absolutely. Yeah, and so I think getting back to kind of, you know, the holotropic thing can be at whatever level, it can get very deep, it can get it can get very spiritual,
00:22:40
Bill Anthes
but from a practicality, okay, well, what does this mean for fitness? And the day-to-day, what is important to us is also this notion of like, okay, when we talk about movement towards wholeness, that's the definition of holotropic. Well, what does whole a whole fitness practice mean? And we have always been very non-dogmatic, meaning we don't just subscribe to You know, high intensity or this cardio thing or this kind of, I don't want to say trends, but within fitness, there can often be just so many trends and like people get stuck in a rut. I do yoga. I do CrossFit. I do orange there. It's like, and unfortunately when people get stuck in that.
00:23:20
Bill Anthes
They miss out on these other components that are required to have a whole approach to fitness. And what does a whole approach to fitness mean? Well, generally longevity and health. So we know that you can't really choose well which is more important.
00:23:37
Bill Anthes
being having strength in muscles or having a healthy heart. Like who would choose? Well, they're both important. um So for us, we look at components of strength. We look at cardio. We look at some functional fitness and and that can be in two categories, kind of high intensity where there's, you gotta kind of put out some effort and have intervals and also more of a steady state, kind of longer experience of functional fitness.
00:24:07
Bill Anthes
Our fifth category is very between the ears to go back to that. It's more experiential. It's more about um yeah being being in that connected state um and that's called engage. So we have these five pieces and you were saying um just a second ago, ah alchemy and alchem and of alchemy experience. And so those five fitness words,
00:24:37
Bill Anthes
we kind of have assigned them each almost like a, I don't wanna say alchemy symbol, but sort of a symbol that is connected more to... The elements. Yeah, the elements. That's, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and that's certainly not my creation, like earth, wind, air, fire, spirit. No, you did not create earth, wind, fire. That's not a hard thing, just like, not the band.
00:25:03
Bill Anthes
Um, but part of this, I think part of the constant curiosity as to what are we doing? How are we doing it? Why are we doing it all of those questions? Like we, we, we opened up this place between the years fitness in 2020 because of, I think being at the limit of what we could realistically do within CrossFit.
00:25:30
Bill Anthes
Within the CrossFit container. yeah Within the CrossFit container. The methodology, yeah. Yeah. So it was like, hey, it's time to grow. And for for that case, in that specific situation, it was time to go. And so it was like, OK, started this thing.
00:25:46
Bill Anthes
And now I think it's at the same point. It's like, hey, it's time to grow. And some of that is removing moving past the between the ears kind of catch all name. And also for me, and this is sort of a personal thing, stepping into holotropic fitness with a bit more courage.
00:26:06
Bill Anthes
um and a bit more authenticity to say, look, this is what we do. Well, and conviction, I think. Yeah, conviction for sure. I want to be careful with that because conviction can sometimes rob you of curiosity, because if you know, you know, you know, like those are the two scariest words in the world. They're like, I know kind of thing, you know. ah But nonetheless, being a student of this whole thing, and with the holotropic stuff, like,
00:26:33
Bill Anthes
Yeah, this is what we do. So having having a ah um just having an honest discussion about, like look, we're talking about consciousness here.
Transcending Traditional Metrics in Fitness
00:26:45
Bill Anthes
And there's all the performance stuff. There's all of the fitness stuff. There's all of the like good for health, good for longevity, good for this, good for that. And and that's fine. And that's all very sciency.
00:26:58
Bill Anthes
But it's true as well. It is part of a fitness practice is I want to know that if I'm doing strength, it's going to help my bone density and how, and I want to be capable in my older years. So that is very much important. That is, yeah but that's like the first two or three steps of a staircase.
00:27:19
Bill Anthes
Just because you move on to the top of the staircase doesn't mean you forget about the first two or three. They're embedded in that process. They're embedded in that journey. And I think for a long time, it's been very much about like the science of stuff or maybe the the sports performance thing. Hey, you're going to be able to run faster, jump higher, lift heavier, but blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's, that's fine. That's all good. That's like, that's embedded into the the the practice or whatever.
00:27:49
Bill Anthes
with holotropic fitness, what we're doing is we're also having a, an approach and a guidance. And and I would say like a model to follow to really access steps higher up on that staircase, which is, which is your consciousness. Because when you're talking about how can I experience consciousness? We want to be open to all experiences. We don't want to only have one level or one sort of limit of, of that. And that's where,
00:28:19
Bill Anthes
to to talk about we're we're changing consciousness because that's what you experience on the outside of of of life where it's not a overly fabricated environment. Yeah, and and I think we've kind of touched on this in the past in obviously
00:28:41
Bill Anthes
our our conversations. We've talked about this because it is so important. But I do find it like I think none of what we're saying isn't necessarily um new, right? Like, but it's new to fitness, because people associate what you're talking about with meditation, yeah yoga, maybe these i expeditions to some foreign land to go to an ashram or go on a darkness retreat or like these really like epic things, right? And we're saying.
00:29:20
Bill Anthes
though this piece of living is important. But why wouldn't you connect it with like when you're moving your body, which for most people is in terms of fitness. So um yeah, I think that's the part that is harder for people to kind of accept or see because it's been so fragmented for so long. It's been a different thing, which is about or is proclaimed to be about performance. What's funny about that is most people we know, and again, being having been in this industry for over whatever, now that I'm not counting 25 years, like most people, that's not that doesn't drive them. That's not enough of a- Performance? Yeah, it's not it's not important enough. So you know if that was like the thing that got people in the door and was like, okay, yeah, I'm like so pumped to get my bench press up or get my time down on this workout,
00:30:14
Bill Anthes
But that doesn't it's not enough. It's not compelling enough. um So I think from the staircase analogy you're talking about is those higher steps up is a lot more rewarding for people and is and and pays off more for people like in the experience. Oh, wow, I've been doing this fitness practice. And now I'm finding that when I have a really stressful day or I'm kind of panicking, I'm finding myself able to like work through that better, apply breathing, kind of know my body, know my signaling, because most people, and this is kind of another area to to talk about, most people today are constantly in a
00:31:00
Bill Anthes
ah go state, like kind of survival state, yeah they're not able to really take time to connect with their signals. So that like introception or um ability to like know yourself is really kind of absent. And we know that because when people come in and they first start with us,
00:31:22
Bill Anthes
One of the things we do to help navigate what workout someone should do on a given day is to start with talking about like what's going on with them how they're feeling and When people first start with us, that's like really really challenging um To even know what that means. I don't know. How am I feeling? Am I stressed? Am I tired? Am I low energy? I haven't even stopped to consider it and what kinds of signals would I look to to help?
00:31:46
Bill Anthes
guide me in that answer. Yeah. So that does take practice. Yeah. And that's part of what we're doing in here with something kind of as, um, not I was like cut and dry, but sort of tangible as fitness so that people when they leave, like you said, can, um, use that in their life and the range of things are going to be exposed to. That should be for me, that is the,
00:32:18
Bill Anthes
Top priority of a fitness practice. The performance stuff, I've been there and done that. No, I have not won the CrossFit Games. I've been an all American athlete, been a special forces operator, like all of that shit. And I can tell you the carrot just gets a little further away. And at a certain point, like what else do you got? You can't tell me it's all about numbers and data and this and that. And it's not.
00:32:46
Bill Anthes
people tire of the performance component or people tire of the metrics because they're removed from the subjective experience as the priority and for a fitness practice to not serve primarily improvement of life outside of the gym. And I'm not talking about like I'm able to walk from you you know, the parking lot or carry my kids. It's like, that's, that's one, that's a physical application. I'm talking about like in a grocery store, at work, in a family in a situation, in a meeting, doing do like life is like when you are not actually, um when you're not relying on your physical body to overcome some adversity or some hardship. That's what we're talking about.
00:33:41
Bill Anthes
Cause when you can do that, yeah, yeah, fine. Right on. Like that's okay. And by the way, like hint, like a lot of people who don't train can also survive that. Right. It's when your physical skills and how you express those externally are not the right tool. Can you, can you, can you be aware of your internal signals? Can you organize your internal state with enough clarity and honesty?
00:34:10
Bill Anthes
that when presented and and and and involved in whatever the environment is or whatever that experience or situation is at that time, then you can choose the right action. Yeah. And when I think about like, okay, what does that mean in terms of, you know, someone might be listening thinking like, great, okay, but but like, so what happens in the gym? I think a couple of like examples of that.
00:34:37
Bill Anthes
You know, we have, so we have a, an element that's associated with each of those types of workouts. And we also have like a word, an essence of what it is. So flow, which we consider like moving your body. I mean, it could be 40 minutes. Most people in here go for about 30 minutes. Steady state functional fitness, but just at a steady state doesn't mean it's easy, but not, um, interval based and it's kind of simplistic movements.
00:35:04
Bill Anthes
that word we associate with flow is actually acceptance. And one of the reasons we do that is because it doesn't like quote unquote, scratch the itch, like an interval workout, or um maybe even like a heavy strength workout. Those are great workouts. But if you're coming in really tired, low energy, you got very little in the tank.
00:35:31
Bill Anthes
those are not great choices for you, for your system. Right. Well, then you wonder why you are destroyed. Yes. So we'll like in life, right? We will get into like maybe why those aren't great choices. If you're in that position, you have to have some acceptance of that state. And sometimes that is hard overriding like the, the, well, I should be doing something harder and saying, wait, what I'm feeling though is low energy. What I'm feeling is really foggy in my brain. I'm feeling this.
00:36:01
Bill Anthes
I'm going to accept that and align my movement practice today with that state. Like that's what we're talking about in terms of, well, how do you practice this with fitness? If every day all you do is give in to that urge, that's no different than when someone cuts you off, like just ramming into the back of their car because the urge is to ram into the back of their car.
00:36:26
Bill Anthes
So it's like learning like, okay, this is what I'm feeling, but like, what's best? What's like being able to almost kind of step back and observe and see the moving pieces versus just be reactive and scratching an itch. And we've talked about this as well. Like I say this from my own experience of being a complete addict for scratching the itch, whether that's like not taking a rest day, doing the hardest workout possible. And I also know that that took quite a toll.
00:36:56
Bill Anthes
on my system. um and yeah And one of the things I think that's really cool for me to see is not only do I feel much more, I have a wider lens and ability to experience the world and and deal with things as a result of applying this methodology. But I'm actually like, I think my fitness is much broader. And I actually feel like my aesthetics are have improved yeah for what I want. So it's not like we're just talking about this from a like,
00:37:35
Bill Anthes
No feel great and everything's gonna be great. and You're gonna improve your your mental health. But well, you're also maybe gonna be weak and you're gonna look like crap. I mean, no, we're talking about all things moving in a direction of kind of the probably what is like ideal. Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:56
Bill Anthes
And it takes time to do that. Sure. And that's, I think, the thing that most people don't want to hear. It takes time. And the first year of training like this, you might be full of doubt. And that's a good thing, honestly, because the part of your mind that wants to know and control and do things the way things have always been done,
00:38:23
Bill Anthes
senses that, uh-oh, things are changing. And it doesn't go without a fight. Some call it the ego. Some call it a manager part. like There's all these different concepts for it. But to allow that experience into your world is is really important because we do know that, ah well,
00:38:52
Bill Anthes
many people that we've worked with and it's been a lot. When you really get to know them, when you really get to ask them a question and about their experiences in movement or fitness or whatever it is, do you trust yourself? It becomes very clear that the answer is no. Yeah. And their fitness practice is a huge litmus test.
00:39:23
Bill Anthes
that we that I have often looked at and said. Yeah, if you don't trust yourself not to, if if you're doing something, you know, like, no, I need to do the itch. I need to just scratch this. I need to just blast myself with, you know, 50 cows on the assault bike into 10 burpees because doing something steady or stayed or doing something like easier or maybe even just like I had a thing yesterday. I did a lower body strength day yesterday. It was three exercises done. I did four, three to four sets of each. I strained. It was challenging. It was hard.
00:39:57
Bill Anthes
but it wasn't 21, 15, nine burpee air break. It wasn't that kind of scratching of the itch. And it's like, okay, so what now? Now did I earn it? Now? Now was like a good little yeah like thing. And that's a narrative. I think that those are the narratives, whatever in industry, whatever you've come from, right? Similar with endurance athletes. And we have, you know, have had a couple of endurance athletes who have seen a lot of success and had a lot of patience and I give them a lot of credit for that sticking with this and now saying, wow,
00:40:27
Bill Anthes
And not to say that we're, don't ever, you like riding your bike, don't ever ride your bike again. Like that's not what we're saying, but, course but being okay with, yeah, if you've been used to doing endurance four days a week, and that's your thing, of course that changed that transition. We're not also saying overnight, do a, do a 180. We're saying, okay, let's like work on.
00:40:50
Bill Anthes
making this gradual. I do want to say just to kind of make sure we've been clear about it, what we are talking about and what's very aligned with holotropic fitness is the nervous system.
Aligning Workouts with Nervous System
00:41:04
Bill Anthes
That's right. And that's not a construct that we've made up. That's not hippy dippy. That's not woo shit. That's how people experience life is through your nervous system. Yeah. And we won't go into a whole thing on, you know, window of tolerance and polyvagal theory and all these things. And we actually We'll have a course that kind of deep dives into our methodology people can take online at their own leisure. um But really the main thing is um that is how you experience life. And we try to align. That's kind of what the workouts are based on. Sometimes you're going to be in one place. Sometimes you're going to be in another place in terms of your system. And if you think about it like a wave and what works best if you can honor where you're at.
00:41:56
Bill Anthes
and And then like have a fitness practice that doesn't just give that state a big fuck you and do whatever the fuck it wants anyway. right And that's kind of what I feel like no matter where you're at.
00:42:09
Bill Anthes
And this doesn't just also go in terms of like, Oh, maybe you're feeling tired today. Like I think people think of it always in that side, like, Oh, if you're tired today, like don't go too hard. No, there's also the other side. It's like you need to build some energy or you have like energy you want to express and then let's go. Like you, you want to go. Great. There's a time for that. And to build confidence in yourself and, you know, have something that that challenges that doubt. I don't know if I can do another round. Well, let's just try see what happens. You know, so there's, there's a range of experiences, just like your nervous system has a range. And I think for us, um, it's not exactly a catchy tagline, like holotropic fitness, uh, fitness that aligns with your nervous system. Like, you know, that's not exactly the marketing, uh, genius, but that's, that is what
00:43:02
Bill Anthes
We do, and that is why people generally say, wow, this feels really good. This, you know, oh, like, yeah, I felt great when I left the gym. And not just for 20 minutes after, but days and and continuously that it's supporting their life. Yeah. Yeah. I think looking at sort of a, like a first principles type of approach. So what do we know? We know people's nervous systems are fucking hijacked.
00:43:32
Bill Anthes
Yeah. And most people have a significantly disproportionate challenge slowing down and speeding up. People are stressed potentially beyond what they perceive they can tolerate, which means their capacity for strength for stress is shrinking, not growing.
00:43:59
Bill Anthes
There's too much to do and too little time to do it. And there's fitting it in. And you multitask. No, and people cannot focus and I'm not talking about intellectual or cognitive. I'm talking about physical focus, something that no one seems to be talking about either. With all of this stuff, can you look at a dot for um for five minutes? And this is, it sounds silly, but like, or the whole like notion of like the raw dogging, of the not listening to music.
00:44:30
Bill Anthes
What is that about? it's about physically It's about physical focus. It's about concentration. And in our pace of society right now, in our this to say that people aren't distracted is a flat out lie, like social media, the tech, the elections, the drones, the God, everything.
00:44:53
Bill Anthes
And so people's nervous systems are just hijacked or bombarded. Their consciousness and their attention is being harvested and mined, like fought for, like the the gold rush of the thirties is the attention rush of of the now. So we know that people's nervous systems are completely hijacked and are in a state of dysregulation. So for people that want to go Let's just say they say, Hey, my nervous system is all jacked up or I've heard, you know, this, that, the other. And there's so many social media experts and therapists and counselors and coaches and all of that on nervous system, nervous system. There's so much information.
00:45:44
Bill Anthes
And then it's like, okay, so what do you do? What do you got for me? By your course, but what are you going to do? You're going to tell me the same thing. You know what you're going to tell me? You're going to tell me to breathe. You're going to tell me to journal. You're going to tell me to do this. And I'm a therapist and I see some of this stuff and I'm like, fuck you. I know what you're doing. You're it. You should do somatic practices. Yeah. What's that? Well, pay attention to your body. Really? That is not a somatic practice. That is not a somatic practice at all. The body is a part of it, but like,
00:46:14
Bill Anthes
Anyway, so point being when, when, when, if we know that people's nervous systems are hijacked, if you were to go to a therapist and they would say, okay, Hey, we're going to work with you with a somatic thing. And like, they would say like, well, how are you moving your body?
00:46:34
Bill Anthes
Are you moving your body? Are you panicking around all the time? Are you just rushing, rustling, rushing and hustling and bustling and go and go and go and go? And are you speeding? And are you racing through the store? And are you multitasking? And are you cooking dinner while you're working out while you're on a zoom call while you're? Sure. It's like, Holy shit, slow down. Yeah. And and if you were if I was in the chair, and and you're and i'm in that state, right? And then you say, Okay, well, what do you do for fitness and my workouts all are very similar to that state. Take away the thrusters. I mean, because they're all the same. What's the experience of it? Well, the experience of it is like surviving heavy breathing. Oh my God. Mind is racing. That is the experience. And not to say there's, we're not saying that never do a workout like that, but when it's every day and add to that, you know, one of the things about high intensity workouts is there tend to be short.
00:47:35
Bill Anthes
So now it's a perfect short intense cram it in. I also don't want to say not just to pick on those kinds of workouts. um And again, I'm not saying like we do them I do those workouts one or two times a week, but not all the time enough, not in a vacuum.
Intensity in Modern Fitness Practices
00:47:54
Bill Anthes
I also want to point out though, that that's not the only workout that's problematic. I mean, I think there's people listening to this and I think, well, great. That's why I go to yoga. And I can tell you that most of the yoga, it's, it's challenging to maybe not find a class. Most studios have types of classes that are more like it's like a yin class, but a lot of the yoga now it's so hot. It's so fast.
00:48:21
Bill Anthes
It has pushups and crunches because that's what people want. And I'm not condemning owners or teachers for doing that. Cause like there is a demand. Yeah. You're giving people what they want to eat. And that's what they want. But unfortunately it's, it's just perpetuating the same thing. So it's like, that's what I find comical is like people like, Oh no, no, I don't do crossfit. Like, but I go to hot yoga. It's like, okay, sure. One's thrusters and one's Chaturanga, but like you're damn near doing the same thing to your system. So I think it's like stepping back and seeing.
00:48:51
Bill Anthes
you know, what's the having like a panoramic view of like, life and your experience of life and not just um looking at it through a microscope. So we're not also saying that like, we're the only place to do this. This is a methodology. This is an approach. Now our workouts every week, if you were to follow our workouts, you're getting a range doesn't mean every week, one workout, one strength, one this, one that depends on maybe where you're at. But yes, that is our program. It's based on having that range. However, you said the the the notion of it being comprehensive, yeah, and and and inclusive. And that's the thing like, you know, the the the problem is, is that most gyms
00:49:35
Bill Anthes
um because of the business model really honestly it's it's it's I'm not trying to personally attack anyone because you're you're you're doing good things if you're know whatever but like the business model and we've been in you've you know it's been damn near 20 years of like doing this you have to make sacrifices you have to cut things out You know, we've got folks right now doing a multi hour workout. You can't do that. Yeah. And in a normal gym. Now, do we do that all the time here? No, of course not. But like you can't you can't people I'll just say this, like when was the last time a CrossFit gym?
00:50:21
Bill Anthes
programmed 60 minutes of cardio. No, because no one will come because no one will come or they don't have the equipment or people are like, that's boring. That's lame. I'm not going to think, Oh, and by the way, those 60 minutes of cardio are not to be done as fast as humanly possible. Do it at a, you know, zone two, zone three ish kind of thing. I get it. You know, saying like the Peter Atea thing of like four hours is like, no one's going to do that once a week. And the thing that I want to also address is. Yeah. Maybe you should do.
00:50:50
Bill Anthes
five hours a week of zone two. And it's kind of like, you gotta, you gotta to pick your shots here. Somebody doing five hours of zone two is probably either takes it really, really seriously, or maybe they're into the biking or so they don't have a job or they don't do any other fitness because that takes up everything. Of course. And then it's like, okay, Hey, are you also straining? And are you getting strength? Oh, by the way, are you sprinting? Like, where is it at here? And that is where holotropic the wholeness of this. I don't think it's fair to say we're being greedy or being hoarding. Like, no, we don't want to make sacrifices.
00:51:29
Bill Anthes
For now I know for training, we've talked about this in the past where you have your training at a good test of are you training is show me your sacrifices, right? And that's where a practice that also factors in consciousness.
00:51:45
Bill Anthes
Because the conscious experience, the experience of consciousness and also the intentional execution of a 60, 45 to 60 minute, easy, maybe 60 to 75 minutes. Like if you've got the time, do it. Why is everything limited to one hour? That is totally different. It doesn't have to be an hour either. It could be 30 minutes, right? Like that whole thing, at least we've talked about this. And what you're doing also in that you're sitting in one place for an extended period of time. Or walking, but Yeah, you're you're doing one thing, which for most people, I think it's also like no one's saying this is going to be easy. I do this all the time. And the other day, it took me the first five to 10 minutes to stop resisting it. Yeah, that that's part of it. But that's also the part of like doing the hard thing. Yes. I think the other thing to point out is
00:52:36
Bill Anthes
you know marketing people will tell you like to focus on something. yeah you know the The riches are in the niches or whatever. And we're kind of saying like, well, we're not a niche. Our niche is we're comprehensive and we're giving you this full picture of what you need and all that. Well, I do think our niche to some extent is consciousness and is awareness. And I think the people who are going to resonate with this are the people who are fed up with the overly marketed, overly hyped, yeah influencer dominated fitness space. Well, that's more is more. I mean, we've both gone through different programs. Like, Oh, I'm curious. Like, Oh, and again, doesn't matter like which ones there are, but different hurt people out there who are very well known, who I've seen on Instagram, like, Oh, I like what they're doing. And it's so overwhelming to even know which program and which thing. And it's like, really, you're telling me that the average person
00:53:33
Bill Anthes
it's this nuanced, like, I don't think so. um And we're not saying that, like, again, I just want to make it clear, it's not, oh, the exercises we put out, the workouts we put out, that's, that's the only way it's it's a, this is like, it's an approach. um I do want to point out, because I do find it really important to make this point. and when we kind of beat up on CrossFit sometimes, we used to do those things.
Evolving Fitness Programming and Offerings
00:54:00
Bill Anthes
It was new CrossFit when it started did have a true strength day. It did have, I remember driving to Montclair and I've said this story so many times to run a 5k with people. So I think it's like everything has become, what's time efficient? What scratches that itch?
00:54:18
Bill Anthes
you know, practicing things, that's out the window with CrossFit too. That used to be a thing, a day of just practicing different things, working on a squat, whatever. No one will do that now because it doesn't scratch the itch. And so I do find it just kind of how that's devolved. it It was what I found really interesting years ago. But yeah anyway, yeah so really for what we're talking about is just to kind of, I think, sum up between the ears is not We're not killing between the ears. It will continue on with events, programs. um You know, we have litmus, which is like a pop-up kind of challenge.
00:54:57
Bill Anthes
We've got partnerships, we've been working with street parking, bringing that kind of notion of like the physical and the mental to to their community. we've got a We've got a whole other program and project that we haven't haven't even launched haven't even launched. And it is probably my favorite stuff. It's probably my favorite and I think it'll be my most powerful. And I think really going to be the one people get the most out of.
00:55:23
Bill Anthes
we've ever done, hands down. like I'm fired up for this, but we have to wait a little bit. um So that will still go on. um But the holotropic fitness is what's going to be emerging in 2025. Our website is almost finished, so there'll be a new website. And what we're offering is people can just buy the programming online, because a lot of our people aren't here.
00:55:50
Bill Anthes
Yeah. Um, yeah, we've resisted selling programming for years. We started actually with when we opened here and then we, I felt like we were, uh, under delivering for what the price point was. So we stopped and then.
00:56:02
Bill Anthes
Yeah. And we're going to pick it back up with there's a million options out there for people. Great. If this is something you're like, great, it is laid out. I like what they're saying. I like this approach. Why not let people buy it? yeah um And we will be moving. It's kind of exciting. We're moving the in-person gym to a different space this year and we'll continue with nothing's really changing with what we do within
New Developments in Holotropic Fitness
00:56:25
Bill Anthes
these walls. It's just the, the, um,
00:56:27
Bill Anthes
yeah The name is changing. And then the last thing, as I mentioned kind of earlier is for people that really want to kind of learn, okay, I want to learn this methodology. We used to have a course that was in person called ethos. That was kind of a one day. yeah We're taking that and we're putting it online so people can do it whenever they want. And just yeah learning a little more about the nervous system, about why we're doing this, about ah psychological tolerance. So it's kind of cool. So that's all coming. Yeah. And what's cool is that.
00:56:56
Bill Anthes
We're calling that elements kind of a plan because we're using the five elements to guide our fitness practice and the elements course. You can just take that. Yeah. It's like a foundation. And you can take that and you'd be like, Oh, right on. And then go out and do good things in your own creative interpretation as a coach, as a programmer, as an individual, you don't have to do our workouts.
00:57:20
Bill Anthes
But we're having elements as a standalone course. And we're saying, look, we're really good at making artwork. We're really good at programming. We're really good at coming up with unique things, creative things. like Between the two of us, we're exceptional at that. So if you want to just follow along our workouts to the extent you can and adapt as needed. Yeah.
00:57:39
Bill Anthes
you know, for 20 bucks a month, we're offering programming. So it's like very, hopefully, it's very you focused. What do you need from us? And how can we support and drive that? Yeah, that's the yeah that's the evolution.
00:57:58
Bill Anthes
So hopefully that is clear as mud. um But nothing with us is, um I think that is one of the things I appreciate is that we
00:58:10
Bill Anthes
There's a lot of depth to what we do. We're not reactive. I'm more reactive, but you kind of keep me from that. Yeah, we're about to run out of time. A lot of years and a lot of thought put into this, and mostly because we really care, and I'm passionate. So have a great 2025. There we go.
00:58:33
Bill Anthes
Got it in in the nick of time.