Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Bi Men Unfiltered, a podcast for today's curious and bisexual man hosted by older, wiser bisexual men who were also once curious. From identity and relationships to dating, sex, community, and everything in between, nothing's off the table. Honest, authentic, and we're not afraid to get a little and NSFW or more than a little. No shame, no stereotypes, just real conversations. On this week's episode, we're talking about finding a guy.
Speaker: Where, where, where, where? Who is the guy? Where is he? can can I order one on Amazon? No, it's not possible. Even with the many apps available, can't order one hot and fresh in 10 minutes. itno Well, maybe some of these you can.
Speaker: but and But depending on where you're at, it's not necessarily legal. Yeah. Yeah. And you might want to be a little more careful as well.
Speaker: We will get all into that shortly. But first, I want to check in and see what have we been up to? Gray, what have you been up to Well, a couple weeks ago, i did have a play meet. Woo.
Speaker: A guy I talked to a little bit from ah from the lifestyle site that we're on that we might be mentioning a little later. um And you he's from out of town, but work brings him like 10 minutes from me, 10, 15 minutes from me fairly regularly. Yeah.
Speaker: And ah beyond that, ah you as we were chatting, i as we were scheduling the meet, one of the nights that he was available was like, well, I can't do that. I'm recording my podcast.
Speaker: Well, what kind of podcast? So I told him about the show. and he's like And he's like, I'm going to become a story on this. I was like, no, no, no, no. no wait isn't that weird That's what happening is happening right now, though.
Speaker: Well, I was going to say beyond that, since I promised him he wouldn't become the subject of a podcast episode, that's all I'm going to say about it. Okay. um So that that's all there is to that at that point.
Speaker: But, you know, just still trying to find a semi-regular friend with benefits. Mm-hmm. And you know be but a potential candidate there. But sure how regular is regular going to be when it's someone traveling in from out of town?
Speaker: even That's true. Fairly regularly. That's true. Sometimes schedules just don't match up when you have that situation. So, yeah. so you are then the perfect target market for this episode, the finding a guy thing. you're you're on You're also trying to find a guy or a friend with benefits. Yes. so Yeah, I mean, I'm going to be taking notes from our show notes and copy and paste. and And ah will i be will I be taking my own advice or heeding my own warnings?
Speaker: It's one of those. yeah a little from column A, a little from column b but How about you? What have you been up to? Well, Grayson, I am very excited. This weekend I'm going to ah an event. It's like one of the regular Jackoff clubs is doing a different kind of event.
Speaker: that I saw and was very interested in. They're doing an event for sides. So we talked about sides in we did gay world, being guys that enjoy and sex that is non-penetrative. so anything non-anal penetration sort of thing. And so oral, making out, cuddling, kissing, that kind of thing, jacking off.
Speaker: So I'm going to an event that is for sides. So it's Basically, a jack-off club with Oral is the idea. Right on. The thing that really like ah pushed me over the edge, so to speak, in registering for this was that they're going to have...
Speaker: glory holes. And that is like, it's been like a big, uh, turn on for me. And I just haven't had the right experience with glory holes yet. so I'm hoping since this event is like, uh, oral is a okay. And there will be glory holes that there will be people who will appreciate,
Speaker: glory holes as well and know what to do when presented with one. So we'll see. i'm very excited. Nice. I mean, we we have a whole episode coming up on Jack off clubs, but yes, the the group that I've been to all of their standard events, even though they go by the, know, no poles and holes, no lips below the hips there.
Speaker: Their events are two hours and they drop. The no lips below the hips halfway through. okay. Interesting. ah Not the ones that I go to. so Oh, I know. The organizer comes in, makes it. Okay. It's time.
Speaker: That rule's gone. and
Speaker: Interesting. All right. Hmm. But what else have you been up to? Well, Grayson, i was able to check an item off of my bucket list.
Speaker: Oh, we we need that air horn sound effect. We do. We do. Thanks to a lady friend partner of mine, who, by the way, also listens to the show. Hello.
Speaker: She okayed me telling this story, so... or sharing it on the show. we you know, she heard the episode where I talked about my bucket list and said, Hey, I can help you with ah some of those items. And how about the sex outside bucket list item? And I was like, yes, let's do that. That sounds great.
Speaker: And so last weekend ah we did that. She had set out a whole thing, which God, I'm so impressed and so appreciative of like that she was able to set it up. It wasn't like in a park or anything like we were able to do it at her place. And she had like everything kind of set up and,
Speaker: She had like prepared a space for us as well and had blankets and a comforter and things. Because I don't know if you know this, but having sex on the ground, ah the uneven ground, can be a little bit...
Speaker: um Unforgiving? Unforgiving, yeah, is is one term for it. Yeah. ah You could have like a stump in your back or something. It's very interesting. So yeah, so we had sex outside, which was great which was great fun. i really enjoyed it. And ah yeah, it was ah it was everything that I had hoped it would be.
Speaker: thank my lady friend for... for that experience. And I was able to check off an item. Yeah. so woohoo. Yeah. And but let me tell you, a wooden deck is no more comfortable than the uneven ground, but I, yep. Yep. I would imagine like you're probably better to do like outside in like a chaise lounge or something yeah or outside on a piece of furniture that has a cushion. Yes. Yeah.
Speaker: but But this was a fun adventure. Yes, this was a fun adventure. We saw airplanes going ah ah ah across above us. And I was like, oh, you know what they're looking for? They're there with their ah binoculars looking for looking for people who are fucking outside.
Speaker: And they found them. They did. oh you know, so theres there's a huge balloon festival in our area every year. i wonder what the people in the balloons see.
Speaker: Or what the people in the balloons are doing, too. Well, they generally have a professional pilot with them. Yeah. But if you're a couple and you'd be into balloon sex.
Speaker: Maybe. Maybe. but it But it's like, you're just saying the planes. was like, you know, it hadn't occurred to me. I wonder, because you those aren't like super high altitude.
Speaker: That's true. That's true. so you know, i I wonder what all they've seen. I'm sure they have some good stories. Probably. And now I kind of want to do it, but I think the heights would freak me out. That would definitely freak me out. Yeah. I'm not a heights person. Just being in that basket would be like, ugh.
Speaker: but It would very activating. Well, if you look down here, there's like a whole orgy going on in this backyard. I can't look. I don't want to look over the side, but I also do want to look over the side. yeah What to do?
Speaker: Oh, the way the place my mind goes sometimes. Well, we have some feedback from an episode that we did on telling your partner. Yep. We had ah a comment from a user on Reddit that they had a very good point brings to light something that that we didn't talk about. That is ah something that we should talk about.
Speaker: Yeah, and the thing is, it it was in my mind while we were talking about it, but then you squirrel. and And then it was gone. yeah Well, yeah, we we got going on on a flow and left that behind left that thought behind.
Speaker: We moved past it. So but we did. I'm going to read this comment from ah a Reddit user. I came out to my longtime wife just a few months ago. ah Almost the next question after I told her, having explained that bisexuality is about attraction to more than one gender and not about sex.
Speaker: She asked me if I had had sex with another man. I told her the truth. Yes, I had about 10 years ago with a good friend, but not in a romantic way, and it was driven by our sexless marriage.
Speaker: She told me I had betrayed her, and I was a cheater. Then she said some biphobic and homophobic things over the next few days and told my grown kids about my affair.
Speaker: They were disgusted and are now somewhat estranged from me. i have been in therapy, but my wife doesn't want couples therapy. With all that said, my coming out was worth it because it was a way to be more my, my more authentic self and not hold any secrets or shame.
Speaker: Yeah, we were speaking primarily last episode from a place of you haven't done anything while within the confines of your existing relationship.
Speaker: But let let's be real. There are plenty who have, you know, and. I'm not going to say horrible person. I'm not going to say, yeah shit happens.
Speaker: Yeah. But you have no no judgment on that. That's everyone's individual call to make. But... when you're having choosing to have that conversation with your partner, if you have done anything anything outside of the bounds of the relationship that your partner doesn't know about, I wouldn't approve of, that's something else that you have to figure out. Okay, yeah how am I going to say that I did? If I'm asked, will I be honest about it?
Speaker: And if you do, there're there are likely to be chips that fall. That's right. And that's just what that user experienced. There are chips that fell.
Speaker: And I can't say that I blame the wife for having that reaction. Right. Honestly, because in a monogamous marriage, there is an expectation that you're going to be faithful to that ah relationship, even if it's a dead bedroom situation. I think there are a lot of men in a dead or bedroom situation where they need to work on that part.
Speaker: Like that yeah but before like going outside. and it can be really, really easy to rationalize and justify, especially if you have known for years or just coming to the realization that you're by by saying, well, but this is with another guy.
Speaker: Yeah. So that doesn't count. Yeah. That's something that wouldn't be happening if my wife and I were having sex twice a day. Yeah. it's i can I can see that it would be really, really easy to make that justification. And again, I'm not going to lay a judgment on anyone who does make that choice because I'm not in their i'm not in their shoes.
Speaker: yeah But you know at the same time, like you said, there is an expectation of monogamy if you are in a monogamous relationship and you have not as established broader boundaries or opened it up.
Speaker: Yeah. I am glad to hear that this, uh, user was honest about it. Yeah. They could have easily just not shared, but the fact that they did, I think is, is good. They have dealt with the fallout. Uh, they're in therapy. I did wonder, i haven't gotten an answer back on this. I wondered if the relationship, if the marriage had ended, i know this person said that they were estranged from their grown children, but,
Speaker: does that mean that this marriage ended? He referred to his wife as his wife at the end of this comment, so I assume they're still married then. Yeah, and doesn't present tense want couples therapy?
Speaker: Right, right, right. And yet, just because he's estranged from the grown children, i mean, we we hear all the time about for various reasons that adult kids go no contact with parents or are estranged. And there, there's all sorts of other, other reasons that could be in play there.
Speaker: This is true. But I wish this person uh, you know, able to repair their relationship with their children and, uh, you know, find some kind of common ground, some kind of good place with their wife as well. This is,
Speaker: bad news all around i'm at the risk of of sounding slightly voyeuristic i don't know about you i would love to know more to make sure you know to know that everything is okay or is on a good path or whatever i would love to hear more but of course it's entirely up to him whether he wants to um you reach out and share any more it's true All right, let's take a hard left turn right now to the word of the week.
Speaker: Word of the week. Our word of the week. What's the week? Our word of the week this week is NPNC. Non-player, non-character? Yeah, I was going to say, are you a video gamer? Because NPC is non-player character.
Speaker: Right. some Video games filled with, ah you know, especially RPGs are filled with non-player characters. So this is not non-player, non-character. this oh something different that you may run across when browsing apps or hookup sites.
Speaker: And it's an acronym and it means no pick, no chat. Right. So if you are on apps, you may see people with no picture in their profile and they, you know, send you a like or send you a wolf or a ping, whatever, whatever the app of choice that you're using calls that kind of thing.
Speaker: And they have no picture and you see it and you're like, I don't know who this person is. So i'm going to put NPNC in my profile to make it clear that if you do not have a picture in your profile, I will not be chatting with you.
Speaker: Now, yep there are people who reply. If you say NPNC and you get a message from a faceless user, they may send directly.
Speaker: In a private message, it may just be that they cannot post pictures on their profile. Right. So usually those people start out with a picture, sometimes a dick pic first. It really depends on what kind of app you're on Sometimes we really are horrible, aren't we? Yeah, I know.
Speaker: We'll be talking about opening a conversation with a dick pic, I'm sure. i Get plenty of that. And if you are a person who prefers not to put a picture on your profile, if you see this, yeah and you may even want to just provide a picture to somebody that you're chatting to on an app just to to kind of break the ice there.
Speaker: Yeah, I had not seen the acronym. I've seen people put the whole phrase or variations of it in a profile, but I've never seen the acronym before. Oh, really? Okay.
Speaker: Yeah. I just lead a sheltered life. yeah You're not on the same hookup apps that I'm apparently on, NFC. Apparently not. but Although I know from talking to you that we are on some of the same apps. We are on some of the same apps. That's true.
Speaker: I just must not be clicking on people who use an acronym. All right. Shall we get to our main topic today? Yes. Let's find a guy. Let's find a guy.
Speaker: So if you've been listening to our previous episodes, maybe you've had the discussion with your partner already. You've had the second, you've had the i am I'm by discussion. And then you've had the i want to act on it discussion.
Speaker: And now you've gotten the okay. And you've gotten the okay. Oh, that's also very important. Yes. You've gotten the okay. Or maybe you're just a single guy So how do you find a play partner?
Speaker: um You toss a penny in a well. Yeah.
Speaker: you You sit at home and you say like, boy, I really wish some guy would come to my door and or no, no, you order pizza and say you don't have cash for the pizza.
Speaker: ah That's how it works, right? That in porn. Yes. That's how that works. And usually it's women that that works for. Damn. I don't know if I've seen a gay equivalent or a.
Speaker: man-to-man equivalent of the pizza delivery boy. But, you know, before we get into that, let's let's pump the brakes a little bit because I want to bring up something here that is very important, important to finding the guy. And that is medication, talking to your doctor, and playing safe. Like, if you're making the step of you're going to find a play partner, you're going to want to talk to your doctor. So there are...
Speaker: Different medications that are recommended for various preventions of sexually transmitted infections. The first one being PrEP, which you may have seen commercials for on TV. That is HIV prevention and...
Speaker: ah You can get it, you can get a prescription from your primary care doctor or there's, you know, lots of different places you can get a prescription for this one. And it comes in several forms of doses and frequency. I take the daily dose of PrEP.
Speaker: Not that i actually am in total need of it because I'm not having the kinds of sex that are ah most at most risk for HIV.
Speaker: But I have it kind of just in case. And I'm just taking it just in case it comes up. I'll be ready for it. It's like insurance or an extended warranty. You hope you're wasting your money. Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker: But if you're if you end up needing it, it's better to have it. Absolutely. Yes. The second thing is doxypep.
Speaker: So this is doxycycline, and it's an antibiotic. And this is prevention for syphilis, chlamydia, and gonorrhea. And doxycycline. and doxypep is not a hundred percent effective, uh, for any of the three and especially not gonorrhea because there are, uh, strains of gonorrhea that have become resistant to antibiotics. So, uh, but you'll still want a doxypep, uh,
Speaker: Prescription, this is post-exposure prophylaxis. So PrEP is pre-exposure prophylaxis. You take that before you have anal sex or risky sex where HIV might be transmitted. DoxyPep is post-exposure prophylaxis.
Speaker: And that is for 24 72 hours encounter. after a risky sexual encounter And the closer to 24 hours, within 24 hours you take it, the more effective it is. If you want to wait until, you know, 72 hours, it'll still be a little bit effective, but not as effective.
Speaker: So you'll want maybe both of these things in your back pocket. I do take DoxyPap usually with new partners. If I, uh, or if I'm like meeting a hookup or something like that, or like I'm going to that side party, I'm probably going to take doxy pep after I get back home.
Speaker: Just, uh, because there are oral S oral based STIs. You can get oral syphilis, oral chlamydia and oral gonorrhea as well. So definitely want some doxy pep.
Speaker: Good ideas there. And of course, there's the ah tried and true condoms, which some people still still use and are still effective for HIV prevention and prevention of other STIs as well. This is something, you know, condoms, I think over the last few years since DoxyPep and PrEP have become popular, it has become less phylogy.
Speaker: ah common for you to see somebody who wants to use condoms, but this is something that you should you know negotiate with any partner if you want to use them. Yep. And, you know, let's let's be honest, too. Some people don't want to have to worry about cleanup and they're good there, too. Yeah, that is very true. Or they don't swallow and want some kind of barrier between ah your your dick and their mouth. So there you go. Yeah.
Speaker: ah The other thing I want to mention is regular STI testing. And if you get a PrEP prescription from your doctor, they will likely require a negative STI test result first.
Speaker: And then to continue your PrEP prescription, depending on your dosage and frequency, you may need to get another STI test, a clean STI test before you get a refill on that medication.
Speaker: And trust me, your your doctor has heard it all. Yeah. you It's not going to be... The conversation is only going to be as awkward as you make it.
Speaker: Yes. ah you know i I will say once my wife and I started opening things up and I had the okay to play with men on my own,
Speaker: I was just about due to go in. I i see my doctor every six months anyway. And I was coming up on my appointment and I just opened up the portal app on my phone, sent a message. Hey, I would like, I had already looked up that my insurance covered it.
Speaker: I'd like to add an STI panel on there. His only question was, well, you know, we can test for this, this, this, this and this, what do you want me to test for? And, you know, I, I ran the phrasing by her first and, you came back with like, yes, please. All because of the above.
Speaker: All of the above because we have chosen to slightly open our relationship. And so this is a tool of precaution and preparation.
Speaker: Yeah. And I mean, here's here's where we are breaking the curve on everything too from all of the other stories. told We share the same doctor. So what's her insurance changed and her old doctor wasn't on her insurance.
Speaker: She knew that I liked this one. So she he's on my insurance. I'll go see him. Nice. So, so it's, know, it's like you you can ask her you know, ah just She'll tell you that I'm not just you but i'm not just saying that. but So now I just said you I would like to add this to my panel of labs every every time that I come in because what I do is he writes the orders for my labs a week before my appointment.
Speaker: I go in on lunchtime and have the labs drawn so the results are there for my appointment. Yep. That's great. Yeah. yeah They've heard it all. It's true. you know they This doctor's been great about everything along the way. So...
Speaker: Yeah. And it's not, I mean, I guess you're coming out to your doctor in a way if you're saying, you know, yeah, I think I'm going to have sex with men and I think this would be good to have. It's also, you you're caring about your health at this point. So there should be nothing embarrassing about taking care of your health. I think your doctor wants that for you, right?
Speaker: Yeah, well, and I had now this was before I came out, but I've gone in since and changed it ah through the portal. But I had gone a year or two between appointments. So I had to fill out new patient paperwork again when I went back to him.
Speaker: And their new patient intake paperwork had changed. It doesn't just say, know, are you sexually active? Yes or no. Then there's a check with men, women.
Speaker: um I don't remember if there were other options. Everything. Because, yeah. But, you know, it wasn't a choose one. It was choose all that are applicable.
Speaker: Sure. Yeah. And so you know after I did come out and got the okay and everything, I went into the patient portal and updated my file. Yeah. So it's a great practice in terms of practice being that medical organization and practice in terms of being an act that you perform.
Speaker: That's right. Being comfortable with asking about that stuff. Which, by the way, like so many other doctors will ask you what other prescriptions you've taken, even like eye doctors and the dentist. things So you have to get used to saying, yes, I'm on Truvada. Yes, I'm on Tadalafil, Doxycycline. like Yeah.
Speaker: yeah And again, like you say, the healthcare providers, they've heard it all. they They don't care. Yeah. now i It's funny you mentioned to Dollafill,
Speaker: yeah the way i had to I had to call my prescription insurance regarding my prescription of it. And and the woman at customer service is like, well, and I see this, but i know i know that there are other off-label uses. And like, nah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It made me laugh. I i caught her off guard. I hope everybody is ready for that ah discussion with your doctor. It's very important. At least I think it's important. Plus STI tests. If you're finding a guy, finding a a play partner, whether they're male or female, I have found that it's nice to have an STI test that you can share with a potential partner.
Speaker: I will talk about this a little bit later, but if I am going to meet a new partner and it seems like we are going to get physical, I will share a version of the STI test results that like block out my doctor's name and certain things like that. Right.
Speaker: I will share it with them just so that they're in the know that, you know, I'm negative for everything. So yeah. And if they send me theirs back, excellent.
Speaker: But I'm really solving for my own health. Like that's the only thing you can really be sure of is your own safe sex practices. You can't really be sure that the person you're meeting, no matter how they swear up and down that they you know don't have anything, you can't really be sure. You can only solve for yourself. So again, sti testing, so important.
Speaker: Very much so. Yeah. And I have not had an STI yet. Knock on wood. same because Same. Who knows how long that'll be the case, but I'll be ready ah if that future comes true.
Speaker: Anyway, shall we wander down the yellow brick road of apps that you can use? Yes. To find a partner? You're very excited about this. you so You're like, yes, let's talk about apps.
Speaker: Oh my God. The thing that everybody hates, but you kind of have to do. You almost need them. yeah They're a necessary evil sir I would say they're definitely a necessary evil. Yeah. Unless, I mean, i am not the kind of person that ah in in in real life, in real life spaces, like can go up to somebody and ask for their number or can I buy you a drink? Like I'm not, I'm not that person. So the apps have really saved me. Yeah.
Speaker: say I mean, honestly um my my wife literally had to hit me upside the head for me to know that she was interested. so There you go. There you go.
Speaker: Apps make that a little bit easier. Yeah, they do. and there's a lot of them out there. It's true. And there are new ones popping up every other week. It seems many of them owned by the match company and they want to like cycle you around the different ones. So be careful of that.
Speaker: yeah Yeah. You get mad with, with one of them and you go, I'm going over to this one with no clue that yet. It's the same company. It's the same company. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: ill let's just let's just pull the band-aid off with this one. Talk about Grindr, because in popular culture, Grindr is probably the one most people have heard about.
Speaker: yeah i have used Grindr, but I never met anybody through Grindr. To me, it's the sleaziest of the hookup apps, and you know maybe that's on purpose.
Speaker: But... i I mean, i'm not play to your strengths. yeah I guess. I guess. Like, if you're only looking for, okay, I've got a lunch hour coming up. i need a blowjob now.
Speaker: Or I want to suck a dick now. Maybe Grindr can work for you. Personally, that's not how I roll. Yeah. I like having a little bit more discussion and chat before that. So Grindr's not for me. Same.
Speaker: Same. i I think I have used this phrase on the show before. i i want to know that I want to get naked with someone before I consider getting naked with someone.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm exactly the same way for the most part. just Yeah. You know, just just being ready, willing, and able to hit, that's not, no. Yeah.
Speaker: But I mean, even with these other apps that we'll talk about, you often see guys that are like very horny at the time they're using the app and then lose interest once post-nuck clarity has set in.
Speaker: Oh yeah. but once Once that happens, like, oh yeah, I gotta go. And then two two weeks later, there they're horny again. And like, hey, how's it going?
Speaker: Yeah. What are you doing? ah Exactly. So you yeah have you used Grindr? i have not. You have not? No, I have not. You're one of the lucky ones.
Speaker: ah Let's talk about Sniffies. Sniffies is a web-based application. So this is not an app, and in part because it's basically a map of penises. Yeah. So...
Speaker: You can sort of save it as like a bookmarklet on your phone and it acts as like a web view that you can use it like an app, but it's not app that is going to get approved ever. Never, ever, ever. In the app store or anything like that. So sniffies.com, it's mainly for hookups, just like Grindr but there are a lot of...
Speaker: guys that are on the down low on the dl so these are people who are married they have not told their partner that they're by or that they're doing anything but they're looking for a hookup so that is a lot of the interaction that i've had on sniffies i don't know if you have used sniffies as well I have been on it. I have chatted with guys on it.
Speaker: And that's about the extent of it. Because for the longest time, I resisted something just about the name. Yeah.
Speaker: Just had me had me going, ew. Yep. i I finally, within like the last six months, is when I first logged into it. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: And I'll log into it periodically and like, why am I looking at this? I don't like this. Because you want to see the dicks in your area. Yeah. and The whole horny singles in your area now.
Speaker: Yes. but And that's the thing that it has going for it since it is the map and it is in real time. yeah The thing that freaked me out the very first time until I realized that if you log in and when location services ask questions,
Speaker: to share location, you say no, and it offsets you a little bit. It dropped a pin right on my fucking house. ge Yeah, there is that. There is that.
Speaker: And I was like, nope, nope. If you're a paid member, you can offset it by however much you want, which is nice. So I was for a little while a paid member, which gives you access to all kinds of things you can turn yourself off from the map of dicks so that you can browse but nobody can see you and there's a bunch of different other ah fun options there but and I've had a couple hookups through stiffies and I mainly used it at a certain point with a friends with benefits situation that I had for about a year
Speaker: that guy would contact me on Sniffy's almost exclusively. And so I kept, I kept my account and my membership basically for, for him.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, I will say ah one of the, strengths of it like i said you know lean into your strengths with grinder is that real time yeah near exact location yep near exact location and you can also see how long it's been since they've been active too so yeah yeah kind handy so that that that is a benefit you're like oh you know that this person shows that they're like you know six blocks away yeah now i I don't like that profile. Nope. Yeah.
Speaker: There's one near me. So when I first logged in to sniffies, I saw somebody a few blocks away from me that had a glory hole up. And I was like, cause I just said I'm in like, that's a big fantasy of mine.
Speaker: And it was like almost too close to home for me and you know i've seen them on there since and it's just yeah i don't know if i wanna it's kind of a don't shit where you eat kind of thing like exactly a little too close i can't do that but yeah exactly her next next up uh we've got we've got scruff Scruff.
Speaker: Scruff. This is a gay dating app available on app stores. And ah I have used the So this one is probably the one I've had the most success with, to be honest.
Speaker: This one, you know, i do pay for a membership. Yeah. Although it's it's just one price. It's not like Tinder that's going to like try to nickel and dime you for every little thing that you try to do on the app. Welcome to the world of straight dating apps, which are basically ah money machines or money sucking machines.
Speaker: Open the app. Five dollars. Click on a profile. Ten dollars. You want to send somebody a message? That'll be $14.95 whatever. Yeah, and no woman pays for Tinder. So just sending likes to women doesn't really do anything.
Speaker: ah But Tinder is much more effective for men. Anyway, we'll get back to that in a second. So I was saying Scruff, I've had the most amount of success on, and I continue to pay for the app. And it's a good messaging platform. It's good for sending pictures. You can unlock ah albums for matches and people that you like, or they call it woofing on Scruff.
Speaker: And ah it's generally pretty good. I've i've had a lot of ah fun using Scruff. So ah this is it's primarily a gay dating app. So you will largely see gay men either single or there is a large there are a large number of men who are in open relationships or are married and ah play outside with their partner's permission. That just seems to be a pretty accepted thing in the the gay community, which I think is great.
Speaker: Scruff has been good. It's been good to me. I've used it. I've chatted on it. And before you have had decent conversations before getting to the point of even trying to schedule an initial meet with, with someone, yeahp the conversation dies.
Speaker: Yeah, but to me, this ah that happens on any app. Yeah, I wasn't trying to say it was endemic of scruff. That's just what has happened. Yes, that is definitely what is going to happen. Anyone using apps is going to see that over and over and over and over again.
Speaker: But you know what? If you don't put your pole in the water, you are not going to catch any fish is what I would say to that. you got to You got to dip your pole in the water.
Speaker: I knew you'd like that. Yeah. and And you knew I would go Beavis and Butthead. Absolutely. You said pole. um The next ones here on the list are ones that I put in because I believe from conversations that we've had, you weren't as familiar with them.
Speaker: No, I'm not. But. ah the Three different ones, but they're all almost identical. But Squirt, Atom for Atom, and Manhunt.
Speaker: um See above everything that we've said about the other services so far. They are more web-based and more in the in the vein of previous generation online dating and hookup sites.
Speaker: although they have been kicking and screaming entering the 21st century and adding apps to access their their systems, at least one of them. Now, if you go to the website, it shows you the mobile interface of the web website by default.
Speaker: oh So ah it's an interesting thing. But yeah, therere they're just like the other services that we've talked about. you know yeah There are subscription tiers, but in most of them you can communicate and look at profiles without having to pay anything. you Some of them have limited communication until you pay you know x number of messages per day. um you know some some decent people that I have encountered on on those and some some success.
Speaker: but But, you know, it's just that's a case where, you know, prior to coming out was just kind of looking to see what all was out there. So that's how I knew those beforehand.
Speaker: Gotcha. Gotcha. Should we talk about Field? we We should. Field is ah it's an app. They say that it's for the curious and ah it's for more open-minded individuals. And it's geared more towards kink or polyamory or ethical or consensual non-monogamy. Yeah.
Speaker: And I have not had any, well, oh that's not true. I've had one success on this app. In the year plus that I've ah had it installed on my phone, I did end up in a MMF threesome with a couple that I met on field.
Speaker: And that was my only success. But the rest of it has been nothing. like And i as a paid user, I have sent pings to people. I've like tried everything, and it just isn't ah for me. Now, this also brings up another thing. A lot of apps are sort of your mileage may vary based on your location in the world. So some of these may be very popular in your area of the world some of them may not be so I'm finding out very quickly that field maybe is just not the place for me or maybe what I'm offering yeah just isn't isn't ah isn't wanted I don't know but so true story when they launch i I believe when it launched it launched under another name yes I don't even remember what it was like thrinder or something like that it was like something like that yeah
Speaker: And that was when my wife and I were first looking to open things up to find women for her. h So created a profile there, did not understand how the structure worked,
Speaker: so to And to give a little little view of the structure how the structure works, even though you can create a couple's profile on it, what they want you to do is each member of the couple create a profile and link the two profiles.
Speaker: Yes. And so didn't understand that, never really completed the profile, never used it to search. It sat there on my phone for...
Speaker: years and years and years updating to field with new updates in the past month. I went in now knowing how it worked, updated my side of the profile. My wife still hasn't made one for her and i haven't used it.
Speaker: i see. Yeah. I see. And this is an app where you pay for a membership and that that gives you a certain number of pings per day. I believe it's two.
Speaker: And you can also see who is pinged or liked you. And ah you can communicate with them. Their messaging on field on the in the field app, personally, I think it's terrible. like I have not had i've just had nothing but problems with it.
Speaker: So again, your mileage may vary on that. ah I've had one success or over like the course of almost two years. so Oh, God.
Speaker: I don't know how good it is. I won't be paying for it anymore. ah will and and you know Six months from now, I'll probably pay for it again just to see who liked me that I wasn't able to view.
Speaker: Let me go back there. you now Now that I canceled, I'm sure somebody has. Exactly. Now that I canceled and can't see somebody, now somebody has liked me and I can't see who it is. But yes darn it, they could be the one.
Speaker: They could be. the one. Yeah. Then there's the the other big name in the space, Tinder.
Speaker: Yeah. Never used it. You've never used Tinder. Okay. Never used Tinder. I think I maybe have had the most success on Tinder.
Speaker: um i don't know. It's a, it's toss up between scruff and Tinder to be honest. Yeah. Tinder. So it's a combination of dating and hookups. I don't think it's that effective if you're looking for opposite sex relations. I have met partners on there, including my lady friend who ah helped me cross something off my bucket list. Yeah.
Speaker: But the trick there is that if you're looking for an opposite sex partner, usually they're not, if if you as the man are paying for a Tinder subscription, you can send them messages up to a certain point, I think. And ah usually women, they're not going to pay. They're not at all going to pay. And the only way then that you're able to message each other is if they like you and you have liked them.
Speaker: Right. So it's a lot harder to find opposite sex ah relationships that way, just because Tinder will reveal usually one or two people that have liked you per day.
Speaker: But with women, usually like the men have a lot of men have liked women. And so yeah the likelihood that you're even going to be seen is very, very low. But The good news is that with same-sex relationships, if you're looking for a man, it's much easier because as it turns out, men like sending likes to men. And so it were it seems to work out. Like I do end up matching with a a lot of men on Tinder and I haven't
Speaker: really like none of those have turned into friends with benefits or anything like that. But I have chatted with a few men on Tinder and it works for same sex relations. So without having to pay, which is again, quite important.
Speaker: Yes. i see I see a name on the list here. SLS. Yes. Believe you have some experience with this. I have limited experience with this, but what is Yes. It stands for Swing Lifestyle. It's designed for... did Choose your term.
Speaker: Swinging Lifestyle or Ethical Non-Monogamous Cummels Singles. ah It is one of many such sites.
Speaker: ah There's also SDC, Swing Date Club, Quiver, Cassidy... And a bunch of new ones that have popped up. I was listening to a podcast. The couple running it, it turns out that after listening to one or two episodes, the podcast is just a an extended promo for their swinging app.
Speaker: Oh, okay. um yeah That's not what this is going to turn into, but it could, this podcast, turn into. Hey, who knows? we our Our own hookup app.
Speaker: yeah But the the thing with SLS or any of the other lifestyle sites is that you it brings with it the atmosphere and baggage that that community brings with it.
Speaker: which is, i'm going to be blunt here, that bi men are not as we'll say, celebrated as bi women are. yeah um Women are encouraged, if not outright expected, to at least engage in performative bi play in the community, whereas I have seen plenty of profiles that I've looked at myself or that my wife and I have where the couple will just outright say they won't even talk to single men or couples with bi men.
Speaker: Right. Well, if you were a bi man on SLS, for instance, if a couple has it set on their profile that they don't want to talk to single men, you can't even view them, I believe. Because that's been my experience on SLS. There is a way to block single men from seeing your profile. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: We used to have ours set that way. Ah, okay. So you're one of those people who blocked me from looking at your profile. I get it Yes. know ah Because at the time, it wasn't within our interest profile.
Speaker: And single men in the lifestyle have a reputation and it's largely earned. Yeah, I have heard that. That's not to say that there aren't great single men out there in in the lifestyle, but it's largely earned. And let me tell you, as soon as...
Speaker: I had the clearance to find men to play with myself, and we updated our profile accordingly and unblocked single men's profiles.
Speaker: Lord, the number of contacts that we've gotten from people who do not read. Yeah. ah so That's also an important note at this point. like If you are browsing profiles, make sure to read them.
Speaker: whether it's on SLS or elsewhere, because there will be people who are into certain things that you're going to want to know about all of that before you before you contact them or before you like or woof them.
Speaker: Yeah, and just like you had had said regarding all of the rest of these, on these swinger sites, apps, what have you, some of them tend to work better in some regions than others. Yeah. um and Did not have this knowledge when we had the extra cash and dropped the extra money for the lifetime SLS membership that apparently SDC is better for our regions.
Speaker: oh okay but yeah but that said in the eight nine months since getting the approval and the go ahead to play with men on my own this is where i've had the most success okay It could be confirmation bias that it's a platform that I was more familiar with, therefore spend more time on. Yeah.
Speaker: And therefore have more success because there's more effort invested in it. Or maybe it's just... luck i don't do do you use the web version of it or the app because it is kind of a dated interface okay so i use both and here's why yeah the web interface it looks like 1990 called and wants its website back absolutely They swear that they're updating. You can actually, you know, it some paid tiers, and since we're Lifetime, we have it. I don't know which ones do. You can see the beta of the new version of the site, which does not have all of the features active yet. Okay. um
Speaker: But the reason I use both the website and the app is i have found the results can differ between the two platforms.
Speaker: So, and I'll, I'll do this quickly because we don't want to go down a rabbit hole and it be just a whole episode about SLS. um If you look at your home screen on either, there's a section for who who viewed me, newest matches, you know, the newest profiles that match your criteria that you're looking for and who's online.
Speaker: So those are the three top lines that you can see of profiles. Yeah. Who viewed me often has different profiles showing up.
Speaker: I have noticed that, yeah. Newest matches has different profiles showing up. Yep. So I will periodically you at least...
Speaker: you Every couple of days, I will have both of them opened up so that I can see because we have our routine down. I won't bore everybody with the with the details on that.
Speaker: But since different profiles are showing up in those categories, could ah easily overlook one that would be a good match if I'm just using one platform or the other.
Speaker: That's true. Yeah, I could see that. So they I have complained about it in their in their forums. And we'll see whenever the new site finally releases.
Speaker: um yeah i don't spend much time in the beta of the new site because i said I wasn't going to go into our process. But we... I click profiles and mark them as favorites for her to go back and look at later. Okay.
Speaker: Favorites isn't enabled on the beta of the new site. ah All right. Yep. Friend is enabled, but f friending requires the other profile profile to accept your friend request. Right. Right.
Speaker: And no, I just want my wife to look and see if she thinks you guys would be a good match before we reach out to you. Yeah. So I don't want to friend you yet.
Speaker: No. I may not want you to know that we exist. That's also true. So yeah, it they're all archaic. They all look archaic on web.
Speaker: For sure. And I was just going to throw one last thing in that, like all of the other apps, some of them hide more behind a paywall than others.
Speaker: It's true. SDC, you can't even, you can see profiles show up in your search, but you can't click and open the profile without paying. You have to be on a paid account.
Speaker: Yeah, that's how they get you. Yep. They're banking on the fact that you're horny. Yes. And it's making them money. Of course, there are other ways to meet potential play partners. Reddit has R4Rs, like a big thing that I've heard people have success with.
Speaker: And then there are local hookups within that. And Discord, if you're a member of Discord servers, usually there will be like a region-based uh room in some of the more sex positive discord servers so it's possible to meet people that way too but of course if you're not using apps you might want to try local lgbt friendly spaces or gay bars or hey if you want to skip to the end Maybe go to a bathhouse or an adult bookstore or theater or, of course, jack off clubs, which we are going to have an entire episode about ya in a few weeks. Yay.
Speaker: I want mine back. oh All right. So you've downloaded an app. Now now you got to make a profile. Now you got to make a profile. Now you got to sell yourself.
Speaker: you do have to sell yourself and it is very difficult if you're not used to doing that putting together a coherent profile but i have some rules that i would like to share rules or not rule not rules so much as guidelines maybe suggestions there you go suggestions this is that's a much better word for it uh I feel like when you're crafting your profile, you should say what you want and not what you don't.
Speaker: And the reason I say that is if you were to say, put on your profile, no fat dudes, somebody who thinks that they're fat, but are actually not may think that they can't then click on you because they see themselves as fat.
Speaker: So you may be missing out on a potential partner. Addendum. Yeah. If something is is not as subjective as that, but is a deal breaker, do list it.
Speaker: Correct. Yeah. ah you I mentioned all of those contacts that we got that don't read. Our profile says single men are for me, that yeah she's not interested in being with other men right now.
Speaker: Just today, i was shooing away someone who, oh, she doesn't. Yeah, says it right there in black and white. Yeah. yeah so That's different. The couples couple's profile, very different. But also, I think if you want to avoid certain political or religious affiliations as well, you can put that in the profile. And I see that a lot. Like, no MAGA, no Trump supporters.
Speaker: Or if you're you know, going to say no anti-vax or whatever. yeah You can do that. I think that's something you can do. But in terms of like physical traits or even like ethnicities, like I just wouldn't put that down.
Speaker: Like don't reveal your biases, prejudices ah on a profile, on dating app profile. It's not a good look, I think.
Speaker: You should describe what you're looking for and be specific if you want something specific. So if you want to meet other sides, if you are not at all interested in topping or bottoming, like you should put that in your profile. If you're new to everything, it might be a good idea to say you're new to Relations with men or if you like cuddling or kissing or making out like those kinds of things, you should definitely list on the profile. If you want somebody to dominate you, probably put that on the profile. Or if you want to dominate somebody else, put that on your profile. Yeah.
Speaker: Be as specific as you want. And if you only want oral or jacking off, ah put that down there as well. Very much so. Yes. So photos are very important. We talked about no pic, no chat. I think a lot of people avoid chatting with profiles that don't have any pictures on them, but you got to make sure that they're pretty good pictures. Like if they're blurry pictures of you in the distance, that's probably not a good dating app profile or a hookup app profile.
Speaker: Also, ah only one bathroom pick in the in the in the bunch, please. Like the bathroom mirror, like I see so many profiles that it's just that. Like, come on, find a different venue.
Speaker: And and if you if you got to do a bathroom mirror pick, please make it your here personal bathroom. I don't want a picture of you at at you know, Hooters in the men's room.
Speaker: Yeah. you can hear Right. Absolutely. Like no public restrooms, please. Like that. I, yeah. you go to so I have seen so many and they I, why? Yeah. Why are you doing that?
Speaker: I would also be authentic in your profile, but be aware of the length of your profile. Like you were just saying, Grayson, there are a lot of people who don't read.
Speaker: So if you want people to read your profile, don't make it a novel. And, you know, you're also leaving some things for the conversation that you're going to have with the potential match. So put the important things down and kind of leave it brief.
Speaker: Don't write ah your world history on your profile. And for for our couple's profile, I feel personally attacked.
Speaker: Is it very long? is long yeah we We do need to condense it because yeah we, well. This is why people aren't reading your full profile, Grayson.
Speaker: Probably so. I mean, I wouldn't doubt it. it It didn't start out as long as it is. But as we started making adjustments, rather than revising top to bottom, we just added.
Speaker: Yeah. So it's due for a refresh. We just haven't sat down to do it. And that's another good thing I want to mention is just revising it and adding things. Like, as you think of them, like, you don't, it doesn't have to be perfect. to The very first time you put it up, you can hop in there, edit things. Like I'm always doing that.
Speaker: So important to do. Yeah. You know, just keep, keep it up to date because it's, If you're saying, even if you have not followed through on doing anything, let's say you're on one of these apps for you, because a lot of them will show the date you joined.
Speaker: h And if you say brand new to this, looking to see what's out there and it's a seven year old profile, Yeah. you know somebody i mean it's entirely possible that in practice you are still brand new to it you haven't met with anybody nobody has clicked the right way for you But coming in and reading that profile is like, what?
Speaker: yeah this doesn't Yeah. This doesn't jive here. are Is this part of your your persona that you're playing? That you're you're brand new, teach me how, daddy? You know, that kind of thing.
Speaker: Could be. Or... And it could be. And if that's the case, great. But you know let that be indicated somewhere in your profile. Right. And talking about that, like keeping your profile updated, apps like Scruff, sites like Sniffies, and I think Grindr does this as well. You can put like the date of your previous or your latest STI test on there, which is important to keep updated.
Speaker: updated in the case of scruff they will send you reminders you can set like a reminder time to get an sti test which i think is pretty cool but yeah definitely make sure you update regularly or at least look at the profile and see if it's still accurate yeah right, let's get into the fun stuff. Not safe for work pictures.
Speaker: I have one rule. Send them yeah Okay, i have not one rule. Two rules. First of all, don't send dick pics as your opening salvo.
Speaker: No. With anybody. No. Even if they say, like on Scruff, you can say if you accept not-safe-for-work pictures. And I have mine tuned to always. But I mean always, but not the very first thing you send me.
Speaker: that that is That is not the greeting that you're looking for. No. I mean, you know, not that i not that it's a complete deal-breaker, but you're starting off on the wrong...
Speaker: foot, leg yeah appendage. There we go. ah And then my other rule is please don't take dick pics on the toilet. Like, I don't want to see you your toilet in the picture with your dick. There's nothing grosser to me than seeing that. And so many men do it and I don't understand why. And it's really...
Speaker: ah i I don't get it either. i don't either. it I don't want to see your dick. I don't want to see you have just ejaculated on the toilet. i don't want to see any of that. Please don't.
Speaker: think of the person think of the Think of the person that's going to receive this picture. did they Wait, wait, wait. wait Are we going to add ah add another rule in here? What what's that about pictures next to a a soda can or a monster can? Oh, no. That's a whole genre of dick pics there. Actually, I don't mind that one.
Speaker: The for scale picture. But I will judge based on what it is. And if you're trying to be like funny and like use some kind of other funny prop, kudos to you. like I will be i'be into it in that case.
Speaker: yeah Fair. That's fair. So i' I'll allow it. If it's a fun can or something. Yeah. What do you like in a not safe for work picture? Grayson, what do you like? i I was just, you know, trying to think of what would be the funniest thing use as a size comparison. My, my brain was running down that rabbit hole. No, I, in a not a single air pod. No, no,
Speaker: ah And it dwarfs it. Oh, that's right. um Check this out. I don't know. i i I don't want to see the toilet.
Speaker: Like you said, i i like a variety of different not safe for work picks, but I don't want it to be the hello there.
Speaker: you know, that that turns me off. What do you mean? The first the first contact. oh The first contact. Yeah. I don't want to hear Obi-Wan Kenobi saying, hello there, you when the the first thing is just a picture of your dick. you know yeah yeah but You may be very proud of it, but you know it's not the thing you start off with.
Speaker: Yeah. you know it I'll decide if I want to see it. Yeah. um Well, that's another thing. Like who's going to be the first to, to share? Like if you feel comfortable, if, if you're attracted to what you're seeing, you can share something. I usually let the, whoever I'm chatting with, I usually let them determine how graphic we go If they want to see something or if they show me something, then I'll show like, show me yours. I'll show you mine kind of thing.
Speaker: Yeah, I am. I am pretty much the same way. It's like I it's kind of funny. I know we're both here on whichever platform this is for the same reason. Yeah.
Speaker: But at the same time, i don't want to be that guy. Yeah. And you know I don't want to be the one that says, hey, how's it going?
Speaker: Oh, here's my dick. yeah Exactly. You know, i don't want to be that guy. And so a lot of times what has happened with me, and it's I just think it's kind of funny, is we'll end up having a fairly normal conversation. And then one of us will be like, oh, wait, this is the platform that we began communication on. We should probably start saying some kind of, you know, suggestive stuff.
Speaker: Yeah. It's like, oh, hey, oh, yeah, I just saw this great movie. Oh, yeah, that was great. Blah, blah, blah. Oh, um yeah. And ah it made me hard. yeah ah You know, right. you You know, just something like that. Like, oh, hey, you know, ah we're we're kind of hitting it off. Given where we're at, we should probably, know, maybe start getting a little suggestive.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you kind of read the room at that point. Yeah. would See what feels good to you and what the other person is responding to.
Speaker: Yeah. That sounds like a good segue to our next point. That's right. And that is. Which is. Go ahead. Go ahead. We were both about to do it. Go ahead.
Speaker: And that is having that ah first communication process. with with guys and how you should handle that. And, you know, we were talking about apps, depending on what app you're on, maybe you're looking for gay men. Are you looking for specifically bi men? That might be a little more difficult if you're on a gay app looking for specifically bisexual men.
Speaker: or Even field. Again, it kind of depends where you are how um easy it is going to be to find that. Or, you know, are you looking for a unicorn or a guy to join you and your partner? That could be a thing that you're legitimately looking for. So yeah read those, read those profiles, read them and send a message accordingly.
Speaker: What's your usual opening line, Grayson? Do you have one?
Speaker: So if I am the first one to make contact, okay, I'm going to be a nerd now. Go for it. not not Not in terms of the content of the first contact specifically.
Speaker: Is it nerdy? But because I suck at initiating small talk, I have... Same here, brother. I have a boilerplate copy-paste first contact. You really? What? You do That I can i can modify you to more specifically, but it's it basically you is kind of a, hey there, I saw your profile and it caught my attention and you thought I would reach out and...
Speaker: and see if there's any kind of click. or you I remember the exact wording. I would have to pull it up. But rather than having to try to compose that, frankly, awkward first contact every time, i am I was a nerd and I have a notepad document with a, a generic one that can be modified and personalized and shut off.
Speaker: That's a good way to do it though. That's valid. I, I ah generally keep mine shorter um,
Speaker: Uh, I'll say something like, Hey, handsome or pay stud, something like that, like as an opening salvo, or if their profile says something specific that catches my eye, i will say, Hey, handsome, and then refer to that thing. Right.
Speaker: Right. Because I do feel like I'm not really using these apps for only a physical connection. I want to like get to know this person. And if there was something in their profile that I was interested in talking about or chatting about, I'm going to mention it right off the bat.
Speaker: Oh, absolutely. And that's where the personalization that I was talking about. Yeah. Comes in. Yes. That, you know it, they don't just get a copy paste. Yeah.
Speaker: You know, there's there is personalization in there. not Not that I you worked with email support where we were you drilled into using templates but personalizing it so it didn't sound like a copy-paste. Of yeah ah course. so do you Do you have any big red flags about a profile or about somebody that you're chatting with?
Speaker: Um, not a red flag, but a pink flag if there's no picture. Cause like you said, there could be reasons that they're being distraught discreet. So that's either, know, a yellow flag or a pink flag.
Speaker: Um, but if the, a big red flag that I've been seeing recently is a lot of, and this is sound funny considering I just said, I have my template for my first contact, um,
Speaker: But generic conversation. Yeah. I don't know how else to put it other than generic conversation. But it's like you, I am getting canned responses that even if it's flesh and blood person, they're just trying to you know reel in a target for whatever reason.
Speaker: Yeah. um And ah we we already we already talked about you know just first contact is a dick pic. yeah And wanting to, within the first two, three messages, wanting to meet up.
Speaker: Yeah, that's a big red flag for me as well. And that's... I hear from guys so often that want to meet up right away. Yeah. That's not my modus operandi. And I actually have it in my profile that I'm probably not going to want to meet up right away, but I still get that. yeah i still get that. Like, are you free tonight? Like you want to grab a drink, come over to my place. Like, why don't you come to my place of work and meet me? I'm like, Oh no, that seems so awkward.
Speaker: Yeah. Yes. had ah Along those lines, if within the first three messages, if one of the first things that you're saying to me is, so when can we fuck?
Speaker: The answer is never. Right. Yeah. ah If that's the part of the first discussion, then yeah, that's a no from me, dog. Never. The answer is never.
Speaker: Yeah. Although, hey, the it's got to work on somebody because it's out there, right? And maybe yeah the person listening to this podcast is like, no, I totally would. if a guy's like, yeah, when do we fuck? I'm into that.
Speaker: More power to you. it If you if you are cool with that, great. Yes. No judgment zone. We are Planet Fitness. This is a judgment-free zone. Yeah.
Speaker: Here you go. Wait, wait. No, no, no. the Planet Fitness is is trademarked. We're Planet Fuckness. Oh, there we go. Better. For me, also, it's people who don't have their location listed.
Speaker: Like, I understand some of that, but I want to know if you're... 20 miles away from me or 80 miles away from me. Like that makes a big difference for, for me personally, if you are more than 40 miles away, it's probably going to be difficult for, for me to like meet up regularly.
Speaker: So I'd prefer something closer. And I i just, so while I was waiting for us to record, I i had SLS opened up.
Speaker: Profile that had viewed us. Bye-bye couple. Great. This is what we're looking for. Moused over. So I saw the the quick summary of details. Hey, this could be great. And I just happened to look up in the corner. 258 miles.
Speaker: why Yeah. not Not happening. No. Why did you even look at our profile? Yeah. It's just, i yeah, not not going to happen. Yeah. I mean, you know i've I've had great sex, but not that great of sex. Not that you would drive 300 or miles more? No. that had to That would have to be really, really good sex.
Speaker: It would. i don't know. what What else? Any other red flags for you? Well, it's ah I think it comes into the negotiation on meetings. So personally, I feel like you should have some kind of pre-meet negotiation and ah talking about what are you into, what are your limits, what are your safe sex expectations, you know sharing STI results. And during any of that conversation, if they get...
Speaker: dodgy or evasive about things, then that's a red flag for me. If you make a plan to meet for coffee and then they cancel on you the first time, I think, and depending on the reason, i think it's fine.
Speaker: But if they like multiple times ghost on you or cancel, that's not cool. And you kind of start writing people off at that point. And then it does happen, especially on sites like Grindr or Sniffies where they're hookup based.
Speaker: There are going to be people who are new to same-sex encounters that ghost and cancel a lot. Yeah. Run into that quite a few times. But also, I think you should do your first meets in public. i Yes. It's not that I haven't gone over to somebody's house. Right? right away but in my experience that just hasn't equated a good time i mean it's fine yes I did I get off yes did they get off yes but I didn't love those encounters
Speaker: you You scratched an itch, but you didn't really have fun. Exactly. So I prefer pre-meet in a public place, something like a coffee shop, something like that, ah where you can share your like your location with others, maybe like put a note on your computer where you're going to be or who you're going to be meeting with, just in case anything happens. You never know. ah Especially, i mean, depending on what which app you have used, like it's important to do that kind of thing. Tinder has that kind of thing for, for women like built in like safety protocols on meeting up. And I think that's just kind of a good, a thing to think about and have in your back pocket. Uh, and don't just disappear. Don't just dissip disappear on people. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, those those are all definitely i that public first first check. gamy yeah Sometimes there's a little, i i like it at the top of the show, I promised you know the guy from a couple of weeks ago, he wouldn't become a story, but this is a great generic example. Since he was from out of town, there were limited opportunities to have that public vine check meet. Yeah.
Speaker: Right. But we did we he chatted for several weeks before he was here. Yeah. So that's a little bit different. had it Had a good vibe check. And when I headed to his hotel to meet, I was like, hey, you know if you want to meet me down in the lobby for a vibe check, I'm cool with that.
Speaker: Oh, that's good way to do it. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, he did meet me downstairs, but he's like, no, I, I could tell that you, you weren't a crazy psychopath. Yeah. Well, and here's another important detail about why a vibe check is important, because you never know how old those pictures that you saw on their profile were. And oftentimes people do use pictures that are you know, old enough to vote or drink. And then... Because they're more flattering.
Speaker: Exactly. They're more flattering. So having that vibe check lets you just confirm that the person that you're talking to or the person you're going to play with is the person that you saw. on their profile is the person you saw in their pictures. And there's no other red flags that you didn't know about that they were either hiding or being evasive about. So important to do it just, ah but also I would say feel empowered to walk away.
Speaker: If yeah this is not something you're into anymore, if the vibe check doesn't go well, like feel empowered not to go through with whatever it is you were going to, going to do.
Speaker: Yeah, it is it is perfectly fine to say, hey, you know what? I don't think this is going to work out after all. if We're not going to be a good match. yep Good luck.
Speaker: See you later. Or rather not. or See you never. Yeah. Uh, also location. So where are you going to have this encounter? Like, let's say, okay, you did the vibe check.
Speaker: You're cool with everything. Like you definitely want to get naked with this guy. What's the next step? You can decide where you're going to play. Are you going to host or is the person going to host to you at their place? Or if it's a situation where neither person can host, do you get a hotel room or, Meet up in your car. I mean, I don't love car encounters personally, ah but hey, some people yeah for some people it works, if yeah especially if they can't host.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, that that's part of the agreement that we have here. you Yeah. i I am fine to to go play with somebody.
Speaker: Don't bring them home. Yeah. Indeed. And yeahp fair. That is fair play. It is. it is. Maybe you're, are you the type of person that is into cruising that you're going to meet outside?
Speaker: There might be a legal risk in in that, like ah meeting in a public place for, for sex, like ah sketchy. yep Yeah. You, you can, you can end up on a list. Could.
Speaker: Absolutely. Absolutely. And so the first time, let's say you've come out as bi, you've told your partner, you've had the agreement that you can ah explore it.
Speaker: You're going to have the first encounter. You have your first encounter. don't I would say don't always expect it to match your idea of the perfect encounter, like The perfect fantasy version, the ideal version that you've seen in porn or you've read in stories or whatever, because those are idealized versions of all of this, right?
Speaker: You have yes two people who are flawed humans and are very horny. like um you You may have some some hiccups in that.
Speaker: Yeah. And that's fine. And based on your experience level too, like maybe this is the first time you've ever given head or it's the other person's first time for that, or they've never kissed a man before. I could tell a story. Did I tell this story about the guy who cried after I kissed him?
Speaker: I don't think I told that story. But again, that's another important area to when you're talking about negotiation, set boundaries of what you're cool with and not. And then if you accidentally overstep, that you're not causing somebody to cry or weep openly. Yes.
Speaker: ah Yeah. ah But you also may want to negotiate like once you ejaculate, like where would the other person like it or would they like to know if you're about to come? Like these are things that as a man, you probably haven't thought about asking, ah asking a woman, even though maybe you should have. Yeah.
Speaker: But that would be good to know. And you as um as a man probably think now, oh, man, I wish this guy would have told me when he was about to come so I could say, no, I'm not into swallowing. Please don't come in my mouth. so Yeah. yeah These are all things also that you should take precaution in your premium negotiation. again men That's what I was about to say. you know if If that's one of your lines in the sand, you you mentioned that when you're having that initial question.
Speaker: conversation of what you what you're into and not into. Indeed, of course. ah Let's talk about the exit. The leaving. like it can be a little bit awkward at the end. can. It can.
Speaker: like how how you leave and how you leave the whole situation. Like, are you going to cuddle afterwards? Personally, I'm a big fan cuddling. like that.
Speaker: ah Or do you want the other person to leave right away? Or do you want to leave right away? Like, these are these are things that you could talk about or you could just get a general vibe based on the other person. Like, afterwards, everybody comes. If the other person is, like, getting up, putting on their clothes, that may be a hint that, okay, maybe they don't want any aftercare And right this is just a wham, bam, thank you, man kind of situation.
Speaker: Yeah. Just i go with go with whatever seems to be right in the moment, really. Yeah. you Usually you you can you can kind of tell what the other person is good for. you um Are they saying, okay, I got to get up. I got to go now.
Speaker: Hmm. Or you are are they just not not hurrying out or just kind of you know hanging out a little bit? you Like, hey, you let let me grab you a towel. Yeah. yeah you know That's also a good idea. If you have made a mess, offer a towel.
Speaker: Yes. Have a towel at the ready. Maybe have hand towels in your nightstand or at least on hand. And, you know,
Speaker: As soon as one or both of you walk out that door, is is that the end of all contact? You going to keep in touch? You going to try to have something recurring?
Speaker: Sure. I'm a big fan of sending a message and saying, hey, I had fun. Let's do this again. Or I had fun, but let's never do this again. Never speak of it again. Yeah.
Speaker: You could do that. New phone. Who dis? Yeah, exactly. There's a lot of moving parts. I mean, an hour and a half or so is worth of moving parts to it. I know. I knew this was going to be a long episode and it is.
Speaker: It is, but you know it there's a lot a lot to cover because it's it's it's one thing. I mean, guys know how horny and ready for sex guys are.
Speaker: Yeah. So it's very easy to say, oh man, I'm i'm ready. I'm ready to go go have sex with another dude. And that's going to be easy because all I have to do is be, you know, have a ready and willing dick and do i I get to have sex.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. It ain't that way, folks. No, I mean, can be. It is that way for some people, but it's not that way yeah for many people. For most, I would say.
Speaker: yeah you Because just like with any other interaction, you have likes and preferences and dislikes. And just because this guy reaching out to you is is ready and willing to do whatever you want to do,
Speaker: that doesn't mean that you have any interest in doing it with him. right You know, this is a good segue into a little mini topic.
Speaker: What? Did I set up a segue again? If we're done with the main topic, let's get into this mini topic. Let's get into it. Stories of epic meetup failures, yeah which ah bad, bad meetups, which, I mean, if you're going to be doing this, you're going probably going to have a bad meetup. It's going to happen. Get ready for that.
Speaker: What about you, Grayson? what Have you had a bad meetup? I'm sure you have. I have. One wasn't an intentional meetup, but I went to a local art house theater.
Speaker: he He says knowingly. Sounds highfalutin. Oh, yes. And... Basically, when I go there, it's just to get my voyeur itch scratched.
Speaker: oh Maybe my exhibitionist itch scratched. But I never walk in with any intent in directly interacting because randos.
Speaker: Yeah. And there there was one night, you know I had had my exhibitionist going, so i was you jerking off a little bit. guy came up offered to help and i was like sure why not and so he started jerking me off i got close i wasn't ready to finish for the night i was like okay no i'm i'm getting close stop and he just looked me dead in the eyes and kept going oh my gosh Okay. And until I came and I was pissed the hell off and you clean myself up, you pulled my, pulled my pants back up and stormed the fuck out of there. Cause I was pissed.
Speaker: Yeah. um That, that is, I would say that is the worst thing. that yeah that i have had but just generally speaking they it never quite get even to meetup status there's all of the guys on all of these platforms that we talked about earlier who expect you to drop everything and meet them right then because they're horny now yeah
Speaker: ah you know It may be somebody that you have had a great conversation with for a few days, a week or more. and You're like, hey, you this could actually go. through ah Hey, what what are you doing?
Speaker: you li but Let's meet up. i was like, ah well, i'm I'm fixing dinner right now and then I have to go do this. but but But I'm horny. I'm horny.
Speaker: Yeah, I understand. I'm still fixing dinner and have this to do. Yeah, yeah. those those are Those are just a couple of things. But yet that that one guy who just kept going was was the absolute worst.
Speaker: Yeah. You know, I have a story that's kind of similar. And this was when I broke my rule. So this was on Facebook dating. Well, there's your problem.
Speaker: There's my problem right there. A guy matched with me and he wanted to immediately FaceTime, which again, i think when you are doing this, if somebody wants to go immediately off platform, that's a red flag. Like if they want to move to something else right away,
Speaker: Like, yeah, after maybe a couple days or a week, I don't mind that, like moving to text or whatnot, but, or moving to Telegram or whatever other app.
Speaker: But I don't want to do that immediately. But anyway, I did for this guy. We FaceTimed. He was clearly the kind who was horny now. And I also was horny now. So that clouded my judgment, unfortunately.
Speaker: I did the thing where I met up with, I went over to his place the same day that we first messaged. And we watched a movie, finished the movie, then like moved or over to the bedroom.
Speaker: And ah he really wanted to get himself off. So he finished me off, like like your story, just masturbated me until I can't... Even though I was like, no, don't want that, trying to move the hand, he would not...
Speaker: take his hand off ah while I had him in my mouth. And ah so I finished and then he just wanted to get off in my mouth and be done with it. And that really was not a good situation. Did not like that at all.
Speaker: Like I don't want to be used like that. I mean, and really makes you feel used. And the screensaver for the movie that we'd stopped, like the streaming screensaver hadn't even started up yet. You know, like the screensaver comes on after five minutes. yeah So it was like not long at all. Like he just made me finish and then he finished and that was the end of that. And I was like, this sucks. Like this is the worst. And ah unmatched with that guy and blocked him on a couple of other apps and never meeting up with him again.
Speaker: That wasn't good. And then I had one hookup where the guy was very rough, despite like repeated, i don't like that warnings. like He kept like pulling my hair and And all of that. And that's very triggering for me. and like i don't Unless we've negotiated that beforehand, i don't like I don't like rough. I don't like any of that stuff. So i ended up just breaking it off, like stopping and leaving in that situation.
Speaker: so Which I encourage everybody to do. like If something is happening that you do not like and that you did not consent to don't go through with it. Don't feel like you have to. Yes, consent can be revoked at any time.
Speaker: any time for any reason. All right. I quickly want to talk about the resource. So I will link to this in the show notes ah to the DAP Health Guide to Hooking Up. This is a California-based health organization that has a page on safely hooking up online. And they have like a lot of really good bullet points on things that you should do.
Speaker: and ah after and a guide to hook up lingo that is very important to, you know, review. Maybe some things we didn't talk about in this episode that are worth knowing.
Speaker: So if you're going to do this kind of thing, check it out. It's going to be in the show notes along with our contact information Contact information. This is very important because we are doing this podcast. We're speaking into microphones right now, but we want to hear from you out there and hear about your journey, hear about your questions. Like if you have questions for us, please send them in. We want to hear about your journey, but where can they send all of that stuff to Grayson?
Speaker: they can send all of that to podcast at by men unfiltered.com. And we will read everything that comes in. And you if it, if you have a story that you want to share, you,
Speaker: It's okay for us to read it on air. Just put okay for air and we'll be glad to share your story with everyone else. Or you can find us on social media. We're on all of the usual suspects. We are by men unfiltered Facebook.
Speaker: Facebook, Instagram, ah threads, ah Twitter, X, whatever it's being called this week. And by men, unfiltered.com on blue sky.
Speaker: yes So check us out, find us there, join all of the conversations. And ah we occasionally will post on Reddit. So far it's mostly just promoting the new episode. That's true. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, but also ah don't be shy in rating and reviewing our podcast. It really does help the algorithm pick it up for other men that may be looking for a podcast such as this.
Speaker: Feed the algorithm. feed it. It's very hungry. By the way, speaking of hungry, I'm sure our listeners are hungry to find out what our next episode is going to be on.
Speaker: What are we talking about next episode? Next episode, we are talking about coming out. That's right. Gasp. Of course, we did an episode on telling your partner that isn't exactly coming out. Yes.
Speaker: Like it's only part of the equation, really, because yeah you may have friends, family, kids, ah your own kids, not just random kids. but Yes. You just walk up to a random kid. By the way, I'm bi. Exactly. Well, yes, i could I could tell because of the finger guns.
Speaker: Yes. So we'll be talking about that next week. Yes. We hope that you will join us. Yes, please do. And thank you very much for listening. And we'll talk at you next week.
Speaker: So long. Bye-bye.
