Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Bi Men Unfiltered, a podcast for today's curious and bisexual man hosted by older, wiser bisexual men who were also once curious. From identity and relationships to dating, sex, community, and everything in between, nothing's off the table. Honest, authentic, and we're not afraid to get a little NSFW or more than a little. No shame, no stereotypes, just real conversations. On this week's episode, we are following Marcus's bisexual journey.
Speaker: So we have a guest, our very first guest. We have a guest. Yeah, and it's a good one too. i think people will be really interested in hearing his story. I think it'll resonate with a lot of other men who are exploring their bi-side for the first time.
Speaker: I think so, too. It is a long interview, so we should just like crack on with everything and get right to the interview, right? Yeah. That means yes stepping right into our word of the week.
Speaker: Yes. I didn't do it this time. You're not going to do it? I didn't do the thing. Word of the week. See, you did it that time. And our word of the week this week is demisexual.
Speaker: Insert middle school movie sound, skipping sound. What is demisexual? What does that mean exactly? What does it what does it mean, Grayson?
Speaker: Demisexual is a person who feels sexual attraction towards another person only after establishing an emotional bond with that person. Yeah, that can get a little complicated. So, yeah, that makes legs meeting so meeting men is a little more difficult if you need that emotional bond first because apps, hookup apps...
Speaker: dating apps, they're not going to be as conducive to that part of things. nope they are They are less designed to find a to borrow a phrase, Mr. Right, they are interested in finding a Mr. Right now.
Speaker: Yes. And if you are a demisexual and you need that emotional bond, well it's going to take some time to find yeah somebody to establish that friendship, establish that emotional bond, and then maybe talk about playing afterwards. so Yes.
Speaker: Makes things a little more difficult. Just a little bit. We'll hear this term again in Marcus's interview. Marcus was gracious enough to spend some time with us answering our questions and taking us through his buy journey. And i think we shouldn't waste any more time. We should just get right into it.
Speaker: Let's go. Here we go. Welcome to the show, Marcus. Thank you for joining us. Yes, welcome. As the first guest. Yes. I'm an unfiltered.
Speaker: Sam, you're going to need to put some kind of you know fan fairy stuff behind all of that.
Speaker: This is prestigious first guest on our podcast. So thank you very much for agreeing to do this. We had been chatting a little bit and we had seen some of your journey ah detailed. And so we thought, hey, we should bring you on the show to talk about it.
Speaker: No, it's a very big honor. ah You know, long time listener, first time caller. We've only done seven episodes. Nevertheless. yeah But it i counts. i love what you guys are doing. I think it's great. You know, not only just thank you making everything feel normal, um but also being a place for the community to come together and go, oh yeah, that's me.
Speaker: That is the goal. That's the goal. Yep. So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself in terms of, you know, your your age, your current relationship status, like where where you are now?
Speaker: um In my um my early 50s, married to a wonderful wife and have two kids and very precocious dog.
Speaker: um nice um yeah and uh it's just been a very very uh interesting thing to hear your stories uh because i think mine is one that is feeling like a very slow burn um my kind of awakening took decades until i kind of realized where I started, you know, who I was, where I ended up. And the, the moment, the epiphany, when I realized, you know, that I'm by was, uh, was kind of a ah shock because I just had said it out loud. I'm like, Oh yeah, that, that rings true.
Speaker: And why didn't I really notice until now? um So for me, it was very much like, you know, I i liken it to being in a room and you have this one antique lamp that just slowly over the course of decades gets brighter and brighter until you look over one day and you go, that thing always on? Yeah.
Speaker: That's nice. i guess it I guess it was on. Yeah. And great. it's ah It's a beautiful lamp and I'm really happy to have it in my life. So that was my kind of, ah you know, epiphany for for that realization.
Speaker: Hmm. Well, where did you start then? on What were sort of the first inklings that you might have an attraction to more than one gender? I don't know. it was It was interesting. I think, you know, when you're, for me, when I was a kid, you know, like grade school, you have, um you know, you'd have a sleepover with a friend or something like that. And then you'd invariably at some point time be like, oh, look,
Speaker: my body does this. This is kind of weird. Does your body do this? And you have those very sort of, i mean, they're, they're sexual, but they're very, very innocent conversations that you have. And, you know, you're, you're with your friend and you're both giggling like, Oh, look, it doesn't go down. And what is this? and all that.
Speaker: And I, I felt just very free with kind of sharing that, you know, with my friends, I didn't think there was anything, you know, to be ashamed of it. And they were laughing because because I think we all felt, you know, sort of,
Speaker: uncomfortable or maybe, you know, like, should we be doing this? But it's kind of funny. And, you know, that sort of innocence. yeahp and um And for me, it was, it was very much a thing of, you know, I'm, I'm very on the spectrum tending towards heterosexual, but every once in a while there would be a guy, you know, whether he was around my age or thereabouts who I would stop and go, wow, they're, they're really cute.
Speaker: Where did that come from? You know, or I wonder what it'd be like to kiss them. And then you have these weird thoughts that, you know, just enter your head and you, you know, for me, i was like, okay, well, that's weird. And I'm just going to shunt it at all.
Speaker: You know, like, okay, whatever that was, I'll move on. And, um you know, my my teenage years were very much um interested in girls. You know, i had a lot of girlfriends, but there was never the right one. And then it was okay, this is fun for a few months or, you know, for a year. And then, oh, now there's this other shiny thing. And, oh, she's cute. you know she's cute And then pursue that. Yeah.
Speaker: But then there's also the moments where it's like, oh, my friend who has a surfer body and is just really amazing looking, what's that? You know, like when, when did that thought kind of get into my head? And then, you know, we'd go and spend the night at each other's houses and, and, um,
Speaker: And it was always like this thought of like, wow, he's just right there next to me. And I don't know, it'd be fun maybe to do something, but I'm not going to broach that because that's just, that would be ruinous. And we have a close circle of friends and it would get out and then everything would collapse and all that.
Speaker: Yeah. Was that fear being thought of as as gay then? It was very confusing because, as you know, was the 80s for me, as it was for oh yes for you guys as well.
Speaker: And um at that that point in time, there was no bisexual representation. You know, at my school, my high school, everybody was straight. And then we had a couple of guys who were gay.
Speaker: That's it. They were straight or you were gay. And so for me, being like, wow, all these girls are cute, and some of these guys too, it was just, where do these thoughts keep coming from? And I had no paradigm.
Speaker: I had no one who had really look to in... um you know, like a famous person or a friend or whatever. And I, I think like the younger generation right now where they're like, Oh, I'm bi, I'm trans, I'm this or whatever. It's like, wow, that's amazing. You guys do not understand how lucky you are in many ways to just be okay.
Speaker: And it's just not a thing. But I think for us it was like, you what are you supposed to do when you have both thoughts, you know, that kind of come and go in your head, your brain is wired in two different ways.
Speaker: And so because of that, i was like, okay, I'm having these random thoughts that would come in. but they're just like, you know, thought exercises. Oh, what would it be like to be with a guy? i don't know. Moving on.
Speaker: And that was, um that was hard. That was, that was really, really hard. There were, there were definite times that um I felt like I, looking back, I'm like, oh, that was a moment.
Speaker: And I let it kind of, you know, pass by. Oh, this was another moment where there was a guy who made a pass at me, but my radar was just off. i mean mine still is and mine too i have no radar for that but in but in retrospect you go back and go oh my friend invited me out to lunch or to dinner and we had a really nice time together and then i get home and i go i was on a date
Speaker: I didn't realize. you're sure of that though, that it it was, yeah there was something else in there. Yeah. To that. Yeah. Okay. And, ah but only, you know, only looking at it now as an adult, looking back on that time at that time, I was just like, we had a fun time at, you know, at dinner or whatever. Yeah. The first time I realized it was when I had a coworker um and he's still a very, very close friend of mine.
Speaker: But when I started at this job, He took an interest in me because i like such things as like, oh, Pet Shop Boys are great, right? And he's like, oh, he likes Pet Shop Boys.
Speaker: Right. We know what that code means. But the truth of the matter was that they had great music. And they were also at that time in the 80s or whatever, they were quasi. It was like, they're not straight, but they're not. There's something. They're doing their own thing. They're like Bowie, right? They're just, you know, eccentric or interesting or they like culture and and whatever. But he read it as a gay man. He read it as, yeah.
Speaker: He hasn't come out yet. So he invited me out for drinks after dinner and then wanted me to have one drink and another drink and another drink. I'm like, hmm. And as he was getting more inebriated, he's starting to become very suggestive.
Speaker: h And I was like, okay. And then so I said, okay, well, you know, it's late. We have work tomorrow. I got to go. And the I went home and my girlfriend, wife at the time, said, so did she have a good time? And I said, yeah.
Speaker: She goes, so what'd you guys do? And I said, I think I just went on a date.
Speaker: Now, did he know that you had a girlfriend as well? He did. He did? Okay. He did. But he's like, I'm going to see what happens. I'm going to shoot my shot. Shoot my shot.
Speaker: No harm, no foul, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, fair. Sure. was But also, by the way, let me just say ah that you told your girlfriend, I think this was a date, and that she seems to have reacted well to it enough. you know like I think that right there is a good sign.
Speaker: And you said that your girlfriend at the time is now your your wife. Yeah. yeah okay it was 30-ish years ago so okay together for a while and it was just very funny because she thought the whole thing was hilarious like she's like why why was it a date and then i describe it and she's just laughing and she goes oh my god but now at the time did did she know or did you know that you were bisexual or no no this was just a i think i went out on a date and i don't know what
Speaker: okay okay wow All right. All right. Yeah. It was, um I just went on a date and I'm not quite sure if I should have paid.
Speaker: but um But it was just funny, you know? And then, you know, going back to old Pet Shop Boys thing, that as a kind of aside, I think that was one of the first big clues for me um was watching one particular video that they had, which was ah domino dancing.
Speaker: So if you've ever seen that video and you watch like, for instance, the extended ah version that's on YouTube, It is very intensely bi-charged.
Speaker: Very, very much so. Bi-coded. Okay. Yeah. And the, um yeah, the video is basically set in Puerto Rico and the, it's two boys who fall for the same girl, but she keeps teasing them like, you know, oh, I'm not interested in you anymore. Now I'm interested in him. And then they kind of,
Speaker: wrestle, but somehow they're wrestling with each other without shirts on. And, you know, they're tumbling in the ocean. i'm just watching this going, oh, my God, this is the greatest greatest thing ever. i don't know why, but I can't stop watching. i literally just pulled it up. And in the first shot, they're sitting there shirtless.
Speaker: yeah yeah and and the the thing was at the time i was like i don't know who i'm supposed to be looking at because she's hot they're hot she's hot they're oh they're all together oh this is whoo where is this going right um that's very confusing yeah you you feel a tingle a flutter Yeah.
Speaker: Like, what is that? you You're like, I i don't know. i don't know which one I'm supposed to be looking at because I like both of them. Who am I rooting for? Yes. Both of them. All of them. I am rooting for me. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: So that was, um you know, those were just all kind of when I was younger, just all these little clues. And a lot of them were just shelved away because, again, I didn't have any sort of paradigm for, and you know, what is by, you know, what is, you know, who is that? I think it was also compounded by the fact that when I was really young, i we had a family friend who was gay and i didn't know what that meant.
Speaker: So I remember talking to my, my mother at one point in time and I said, you know, what is, what does it mean if somebody's gay? And she goes, well, you know, if it's a man, he likes another man. Okay.
Speaker: And then I was saying, okay, so then is there something other than gay? And she says, well, there's a lesbian. said, okay. And she was kind of a little matter of fact about it. i was like, okay. So what is lesbian? She says, well, it's the same thing, but two women.
Speaker: Hmm. okay, is there anything else? She says, well, there's there's bisexual. I said, oh, what's that? She goes, well, it's, um, it's when the side somebody, yeah with a sigh. Oh, the sigh was there. It's like when, you know, a man can can be attracted to a woman and men at the same time. And I said, oh, and she goes, but they're horrible people. It's like,
Speaker: what whoa wow okay is this from experience or just well that's the thing i wasn't i i was kind of like okay and she goes well i said why and she says well you know you just can't trust somebody like that ah i always wonder if that opinion if that idea is in part influenced by the aids epidemic And yeah because bisexual men who are closeted, having relations with both gay men and then their wives or girlfriends.
Speaker: And I wonder if that is the, they're horrible people because of that. thing absolutely absolutely that was uh that was at the height of we have this disease it's hitting gay men and killing people and well then if you're bisexual you could bring that back into the house exactly right as you said and so i didn't you know you think that okay then that becomes internalized homophobia for me right like okay then that i'm clamping down on who i am
Speaker: But for me, I kind of felt everybody has their opinion. So that's just her opinion. And I know people who are gay I know people who are straight. There's by was, you know, at that moment, suddenly something new. Right.
Speaker: But they were fine and they were great people. And so, okay, mom, that's just the way you look at it. Right. Yeah. yeah and then um my father had his own you know so we had a um later on years later we had a uh a friend of the family who was uh in hospice he was dying of aids and um i talked to my father about that you know as well and my father says well the the worst thing that the father can face is having a son who's gay ah said wow okay why goes well you know it's just you know you're and you're not gonna have grandchildren and
Speaker: you know your your line is over okay then these words are all very 80s and ninety s right we have we're living in a world that's generations later right yeah and so it was um it was just a very very uh Once again, it was like, okay, I'm hearing what you're saying, but um that's your opinion.
Speaker: Because at that point in time, i had many friends who were you know gay, quietly gay, because it was still in the time when it was like, are you just exploring? Are you just confused? Are you, you know, whatever, you know, they're, they're gay, but I cared for them, you know, in a platonic way. They were just my friends.
Speaker: Yeah. and So hearing, you know, these sorts of things, I'm like, different generation. Got it. Whatever. Okay. Moving on. But that was kind of, the you know, the early, the earlier years was just trying to frame all that. And then meanwhile, you know, as I'm getting older, I'm still having moments where I would see somebody and just go, wow, they're just really interesting. And I wonder how they feel if they feel similarly to me as well.
Speaker: Um, later on, I was, uh, I remember one time I had, um, I had a, somebody was mentoring at work who was an up and coming, you know, person within the, uh, within the company.
Speaker: And he they were like, okay, so you're gonna, you're gonna go ahead and have this person. They're a student, they're fresh out of college and they're going to just be a sponge and they're going to soak up everything you have to say and and learn from you.
Speaker: great and then i see him i'm like he is gorgeous uh-oh ah and yeah he's just amazingly amazingly cute and then i was supposed to teach him and i remember every time i'd get up on the whiteboard and i'd be drawing you know diagrams or you know math equations or whatever i'm stuttering like an idiot and they can't put words together. And I'm like, what is going on in my head? Because every time I looked at him, he's like, he had these amazing eyes and he had the amazing smile. i'm like, oh my God, my brain is just shutting down.
Speaker: And that's, that was really when I started to go, okay, this is more than just a, Hey, somebody turned my head and I caught right something. This was close interaction with somebody.
Speaker: And because I was his mentor, I was like, there's a professional wall that I'm going to build up between us. But oh my God, I wish it wasn't there. Right, frank right, right. Right.
Speaker: right Yeah. Uh, so yeah. And then it just, it just kind of slowly, slowly progressed, you know, from there. Um, what was the, so was this the point where you realized this is not just, uh, I mean, this is an attraction yeah to the same sex, right? Like, and what do you do after that realization? Yeah.
Speaker: Well, I mean, i don't know, because in that, in that particular case, there was, you know, again, there was this, this wall that I had to build, you know, professionally and just kind of separate, maintain that separation.
Speaker: And be entirely platonic and be entirely, you know, just not make an HR issue. Yeah. At the
Speaker: um But, you know, he and I still chat now and then. And he's, you know, gone off and he has his own life and things like that. But that was just kind of my now what.
Speaker: And the problem for me, of course, and I think a lot of people will agree or they'll go, yeah, I i get that too, is my attraction to somebody is very random. Like, you know, some guys I see on one extreme, they're like, any guy is fair game. And I'm going to go ahead and, you know, do the shotgun approach. And I'm going to make my move on every single person.
Speaker: And then it's a question of numbers. Like, okay, so I get rejected nine times out of 10, but that one, right right But for me, it's the other way around. It's like I have, of the vast majority of people that I deal with, I have no attraction to them. But I think because I find myself to be sepiosexual and demisexual at the same time, I really want that an intellectual link with somebody.
Speaker: And then I also have to really know them and really care for them first. And then that starts to build up an attraction. And so for me, the kind of the hookup culture and all that doesn't really gel. right i don't want a experience where it's like oh here's this random person they show up and then it's like yes it's on right i'd rather have something where i grow into it's a friendship and it blossoms into something more and then i'm like i really enjoy spending time with you in many many different ways right um exactly
Speaker: Yeah. And that's really hard. That's really, really hard because that means that you have to just be out there and just meeting a lot of people who are of that persuasion already. And then finding that person who then clicks with you and you're like, wow, I really enjoy spending time with you.
Speaker: that was That was interesting. And then it became a thing of you know where when I realized i you know this is who I am, I had that epiphany of, yes, I'm bi. And then I'm thinking, okay, do how do I explore this? right like how do i Do I meet somebody? do i what What do I do? I don't have any community.
Speaker: I don't have any sort of, you know, person to look to, to go, Hey, what are the steps that I need to do to find that person? And then luckily you guys have a podcast that answers that. But but not everybody takes the same road to that either. And I assume at this point also you're married in a relationship.
Speaker: And so you're answering that question at a very sort of, difficult situation really like okay i have these feelings i want to explore it but also i've already i already have a partner right of many many many years yeah and then the question is okay then we have to have that conversation Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. So how long, how many years had gone from the sort of intern experience to now I'm going to tell my partner that I am by or that realization for you?
Speaker: About 20. 20. Okay. Yeah. Been there. Yep.
Speaker: yep
Speaker: 20 years where it was just that slow growth. I mean, even back when I had that intern, I was still befuddled by the whole experience. I didn't understand why just talking to him was so hard. you know i would um i would teach, for instance, I would have classes where I taught professionally.
Speaker: I would have classes of 20 people, 30 people. No problem. I could stand up in front of a room and talk. I would give presentations to hundreds of people at times. And it was Not a big deal.
Speaker: This one guy, and I can't seem to put words together. Yeah. It's just really, really bizarre. And so, but I think a lot of it was just going, yeah, but you're in this long-term heterosexual relationship. So it's kind of where you're at, right?
Speaker: There's no real, there's no real avenue. There's no real reason to explore Yeah. And it's sort of like if you had been attracted to an intern that was of the opposite sex too, would have been like, well, that's yeah off limits. I'm in a relationship and, you know, I, I made these vows and I'm going to stick with that. And that's what you do.
Speaker: Right. But when I see women, it's much more likely that I'm going to have that reaction where it's like, wow, they're cute. Hmm. You know, I think like for every nine women or so that I find cute, which is a very, very small percentage of the population anyway, there's one guy.
Speaker: So it's a very, very, very, very small person. You know, that one individual who goes, wait, what's, what's that?
Speaker: and i can't wait until we get to the point where we're asking you about how you find that one Yeah. and how that whole switch has gone. ah I think we're jumping ahead here because we want to find out about ah the telling your partner, sharing that i I'm by oh conversation and then of course what you do with it at afterwards.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, I mean the the moment that shattered kind of everything for me was actually November 2nd when the election happened um I was working away from home so I was in a hotel room or whatever and I was watching the you know the election happen and then the the results came in 2016 and just you know 2024 2024 okay okay yeah
Speaker: twenty twenty four okay okay yeah round two because then I was like, well, there's no way this is going to happen. And then, oh my God, what's happening. Right. It's on the screen. um Needless to say, I'm a little more left leaning than might imagine.
Speaker: I mean, I'm not saying that's the same night that I was, that I said to myself, I wish I drank. that Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I kind of had a, ah breakdown when that was happening. I called up a friend of mine and I was just, you know, very emotional. Cause I said, I, I know this is going to be the end of, of everything that we've known. It's everything that has been built up and fought for for decades and decades. It's just going to start falling apart. Yeah.
Speaker: And I was telling um telling him that a you know how I felt, and I was just really scared. And then I also started to wonder, okay, what does this mean? Because I'm by And then suddenly went, oh my, wow, I just said that.
Speaker: You said it out loud. Without thinking about it? Without thinking. It came out of your mouth. Without thinking. And then I was like, oh my God. And then I stopped for a second. I listened to what I said, I'm like, I...
Speaker: That was my moment. That was my moment that I came out, not only to him, but to myself at the same time. And, um, and I was just saying, you know, I i just feel like this could potentially be a moment, ah just a watershed moment where things really take a turn for the worse. And then now I'm starting to worry about my safety, you know, where we are in the world and so on.
Speaker: And then at that moment, then he says, well, Marcus, son something I need to tell you. Oh. And then tells me that he's been transitioning for six months.
Speaker: Oh, wow. And I'm the first person that he's told. Now she, but at the time he... And um I was, I was just floored, you know, and then of course, then he started breaking down and then I started breaking down and that was just a really, really emotional moment. You know, we were very, very close friends. He was a um part of my ongoing gaming group. So this was, I'm reaching out to somebody and then I had this epiphany and everything's just collapsing and i'm realizing things about myself at the same time. And,
Speaker: You know, he comes out to me with this news and he's like, you're the only person who knows outside my girlfriend. And this, I've just been keeping it quiet. And i was like, oh, wow. So that was, that was when it happened for me.
Speaker: And, um, that was like, okay, I guess I need to tell my wife. That was the next step. And um so I sat with it for a couple months because I wasn't quite sure how to go ahead and broach subject. It's not like, you know, hey, what do you want for dinner? Oh, how about lasagna? By the way, I'm bisexual. No.
Speaker: Yeah. If only it were that easy. That could be an interesting way to do It it could be. Lasagna will never, ever be the same. Yeah.
Speaker: You'll never read Garfield the same way again. Never.
Speaker: But did you also run through it in your mind, like the different scenarios that could arise from this news, right? Like I assume you had in your mind, okay this person has these values or beliefs and ah that i think I know, – but When it's close to home, are they going to have the same opinion? Right.
Speaker: Right. Yeah. Are they going to look at at me differently knowing this information? And it's, I think for everybody, when you come out to somebody, it's a leap. Some are going to be small little jumps and some are going to be really, really big leaps of faith to go.
Speaker: This is something that, you know, my wife needs to know. You know, this is not in my mind. It's not really a question of like, should she know? Do I do it? No, we've, we've been together for 30 over 30 years. Like she is my life partner. I care about her very, very much.
Speaker: Um, and she needs, she needs to know, you know, for, for many, many different reasons. Had you had any experience with men in an intimate way or no?
Speaker: No, not really. I mean, not just those sort of youngster. Hey, I've got a boner kind of thing. no No, no, I mean, not in person. of Yeah.
Speaker: But I did enjoy, for instance, like ah camming, right? That would be fun. And that's safe. And it's, you know, relatively anonymous and, you know, drug disease free. It's a great way to go, right? It's a great way to explore it because you may meet meet somebody who's you just there for that moment, or you actually may meet somebody who turns out to be a remote partner for years, right? Yeah. and It's a way of going ahead and exploring that avenue and and scratching that itch, so to speak, and um and growing and exploring down that path of like, this is who I am. And just one aspect, the sexual aspect is just one aspect of the whole experience. so So you had done that before telling your partner you had done camming? Okay. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah okay and then um and also just you know i think porn as well you know but my kind of awakening on that avenue was you see male female porn and you know it's like wow she's really hot and then everyone's well wow he's kind of cute too and wow they're really hot together and leads one thing leads to another to wow i wish i was in between Yep. Can't relate to that at all.
Speaker: And it's just, you know, for me, it was like, it's just a healthy outlet. You know, it's just, it's part of just enjoying life. And there are lots of different ways to enjoy life. And that's just one aspect of it. So it was one part, but it didn't really, I mean, even though I enjoyed it, there are many people who are like, oh yeah, totally get on, you know, get off on lesbian porn.
Speaker: You're a guy. Okay. What does that mean? Are you a lesbian? No, it's just something, right? It's something that, you know, you find erotic and interesting and fun to watch. And that's just the thing.
Speaker: Yeah. Um, but that was it. There was nothing, there was nothing in, beat you know, with anybody there was no ah there was never any moment where i had like an interaction with a friend where it went beyond you know just kind of a looking and wondering sort of thing yeah i'm also bit shy too so just be very very bold for me you know with my personality to come out and do something like that But coming, you know, telling her, you know, when I finally made the decision to tell her, it was very, um it was very nerve wracking because leading up to it, it was an intellectual exercise. You know, I'm going to tell her, this is how it's going to go. I'm going to lead in with this. And then we're going to segue into this conversation and all that.
Speaker: And then right before I'm like, i can't get the words out. Like there's something I need to tell you. And then, okay, what is it? Good 10 seconds of silence where I'm trying out how do I broach this subject?
Speaker: Maybe in that 10 seconds, she'll become a mind reader and already know what I'm going to say. And I don't have to say the words. Yeah. So i I basically said, that okay, I'm just going to rip off the bandaid and just blurt it out and just that way it's out.
Speaker: And then I can ease into the rest of it. Right. And that's kind of what I did. And she just kind nods and she goes, okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And it's funny because, you know, in the years since that moment, I've, I've talked to her, like, how did you feel? Like when I said that, she goes, well, I had my suspicions for a while.
Speaker: Really? Oh, yeah. It comes back to Pet Shop Boys, doesn't it? Oh, yeah. Those damn Pet Shop Boys.
Speaker: I saw you watching this one video on YouTube. Over and over.
Speaker: It's a great video. Yeah, I know. She just said, I mean, there are parts of that are masculine, but there parts of you that aren't. And so over the course of, I think, many years and knowing each other so intimately, she just picked up on that. She says, that you've always been, you know, very, very... Do you that's part of it, though? Do you think, like, feminine traits are is part of that attraction to the same sex? Like, or is it something else? Like, I don't know.
Speaker: It's it's a little strange for a partner to be like, oh, I saw some feminine traits, and that would mean you're attracted... To men also? like i I'm not sure not sure how that would come off or like how exactly one could read that necessarily.
Speaker: I don't know because when she said that, I kind of stopped and I was like, let me take this a step back. What parts of my personality do you find to be more feminine? She's just like, well, you have an appreciation for art and music and you really dive into that and all that. like...
Speaker: Is that feminine, really? or is it just seen that way in that sort of heteronormative ah culture? think these are very valid questions. I don't know. She says, you're more in touch with your feelings than most guys.
Speaker: You're very, very quick to identify, you know, how you're feeling, or you're very quick to identify how other people are feeling. So very open to kind of the empath sort of, you know.
Speaker: oh somebody's having a hard day they hide it 99% of the people don't pick up on it but you did okay and I'm just listening I'm just absorbing what she's saying just going you know non-judgmental like okay I'm learning this is all a journey and I'm learning about myself through you and I'm learning about you through this experience and this is growth right Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was that was hard.
Speaker: That was really, really hard. But it went went really easily. She's just like, okay, sure, still love you. And then the question, of course, became, you know, if I have feelings of that, you know, what do the feelings mean? Where the feelings where feelings go?
Speaker: And, you know, when we discussed, like, the possibility of exploration of that with, you know, ethical non-monogamy, um... the uh now wait hold on a second so the discussions in between so you you have the i'm by discussion is there an ethical non-monogamy discussion is there a discussion about her as well like yeah then you're talking about opening things up like what's the progression like in terms of how these discussions are going and also who who brings up the next step was it you or was it your partner
Speaker: I did. I did. Because again, it was like, okay, so I'm in my fifties. I didn't have the side of myself to explore. you know, I hear stories like from lots of women and lots of men who say, oh, I found out when I was 13, I found out ah this blows my mind. Like you knew you were bi when you were 13. Oh my God.
Speaker: Right. And then that gave them the avenue of like, I had a boyfriend in high school. I had a girlfriend in college. i have ah And, and, you know, that's how their growth was me. No, not at all.
Speaker: I had somebody I would be interested in from afar, never acted on it. Right. Yeah. And, um, and then, so that was just one of those avenues. Like, do I explore this? Can I explore this?
Speaker: Should I explore this? How do I explore this? Right. And that led into that whole question of like, you that discussion, which came years you know later of like, I'm feeling this.
Speaker: i don't know what it means. I feel like we should have a discussion in case. I do meet somebody, then I don't suddenly drop this bomb onto, hey, I met this guy and now I want to do this, right? It's like, no, I'm going to reverse the order of that and be as open and honest with my wife as possible and say, this could happen.
Speaker: How do you feel about that? And her feeling was, you know, her response was basically like, ultimately the sexual part of it, I don't care. Like if that's something you want to explore and it makes you happy, okay, that's fine.
Speaker: I said, really? She goes, yeah, really. Okay. so you have no reservations about this? She goes, well, I do. My reservation is that you fall in love with somebody. And then if that happens, that spells the end of our marriage.
Speaker: And, you know, we have a family, we have, you know, we've been together for 30 years and that is a risk. Okay. Um, yeah, but I've been with you for 30 years. That's not changing, right? It's like your latest episode. And I said, look, we've trained you.
Speaker: like Yes. Yeah. That's not yeah's not happening. And it was it was effectively the same thing, the same conversation, where um I said, I have no intention of leaving you. I value our our relationship deeply more than anything else in the world.
Speaker: And she says, right, but you don't know that. You don't know that it won't change. And that kind of hit me hard. Because then I suddenly thought, okay, fair enough. I have to give the, I have to recognize that this could potentially be a ah moment that changes us. So I said, it's not my intention.
Speaker: Yes, potentially it could. Doubt it will happen, but there's a lot of of time that'll lead to that point. That will be a, you know, avenue for discussion and, you know, so to see where we are and what we want to do, but I don't have any intention and nor do I want to leave you.
Speaker: And that's kind of where we left it. So that was that was coming out you know and having that discussion with my wife. my friends um My friends were much, much easier because you know i you you don't live, you don't have a relationship that deep with your friends. You know you care about them, but it's not the same thing as a spouse.
Speaker: So my friends, I also am able to curate very, very well. Right. So I knew my friend circle was already of, you know, similar mind in terms of just openness about other people and life experiences and so on. So it was like literally I went through everybody in my gaming group because that's, that's my core group of friends. And I told them one by one and they're like various versions of, oh yeah, well I'm by, my Okay.
Speaker: then, oh, no, my wife is bi. Okay. I didn't realize that. Oh, my kids are you know this. And oh, okay. i It was a very interesting thing where i was like, hey, so I'm bi. And it opened up all this other conversation. And suddenly my world became so much bigger and richer of finding... you know, no, no, my, you know, we have family, we have friends. This is, this is great. We were so happy for you that you found, you know, your true self and you, you found who you are and, you know, this means so much to you. And we're really honored that you shared this, you know, information with us and congratulations. And we love you.
Speaker: was like, awesome. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. That was, and that was really, really easy. And then there was, um, my extended family, which became interesting family always harder than from friends. If only it could be that straight forward, you know, because they are the ones who sit above in judgment. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, and you know, the whole story with my, my parents, right. With going back 30, 40 years and then their statements, you know, in passing, sure. That still resonated. Right.
Speaker: Right. But the first person I came out to in the family was my father. Um, because I, I'm very close to him and he had, he had not changed, but he broadened his worldview quite a bit in the intervening years. So I remember I went down to spend ah a week with ah the family there on the other coast.
Speaker: And I wanted to get some time kind of separated with my father, you know, just to to let him know. And so I took him aside and I said, hey, so there's something really important I have to tell you. He goes, okay, okay. What's, you know, what is it?
Speaker: And I said, well, you know, I'm ah i'm coming out. I'm i'm by. goes, okay. All right. It's just very kind of matter of fact about it. And then, um you know, started to explain to him just, you know, how I realized the the road that it took and, you know, all these years and so on. And he made some sort of comment of like, well, everybody's a little bit, you homosexual.
Speaker: Okay. Okay. And um I thought that was interesting and a little by erasure in a way, because it's like, no I'm not gay.
Speaker: bi. okay dad, let's let's have a little chat about what that means and what the difference is and so on. And so we had... you know sat down with him and had this long conversation for about an hour just he and i you know just going back and forth and he's listening he's talking about how times have changed when he was you know younger how you know he was in the military and how you know everybody in the military you knew who was gay and you know who was you know on their 48 hour pass they were going off and they were doing things that not the rest of the group was doing and
Speaker: It's talking about how it was a very, very different world and how was a very dangerous world to be, you know, homosexual to some degree, to some persuasion. And then, you know, we're going back and forth and it was just like, oh my God, as I'm listening to him, I'm talking, I'm getting this off my chest and then, ah, the relief, right? Okay, good, good. We've had that conversation and so on.
Speaker: And then I had my, um, my brother and his wife. And then, so I go, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell them because they're very, you know, very open-minded, very liberal, you know, their, in their thinking and so on. So sat them down and that was really hard.
Speaker: Told them and they're like, oh, wow, great. Awesome. Oh, so happy for you. oh okay. Yeah. Well, this is easier than I thought it would be. And yeah. And then so the next question for my brother was, so are you going to tell mom and sis?
Speaker: And I said, umm I don't think so. Not yet. I'm going to choose the proper time and place to do that. Okay. Well, it's your it's your call you know to to do that, but maybe you want to at some point time. I'm like, yeah.
Speaker: And then I'm remembering that conversation you know that I had with my mom years ago and going, yeah, maybe I'm not going to exactly tell her just yet until I kind of suss out how she feels and so on.
Speaker: Sure. So anyway, the um that kind of went, you know, i that put a pause and for my time with a discussing with my mom.
Speaker: And then one day my brother calls me up and he leaves me a voicemail message and it's kind of panicky. He says, Hey, uh, so yeah, when you get a chance, um, give me a call back. Uh, we need to talk. Okay.
Speaker: Um, in the intervening time, you know, recently, um, I started up a small business with a, with a business partner of my own doing defense, you know, self-defense for individuals. Um,
Speaker: um And then we really are focusing on the queer community because we're seeing a lot of violence you know directed towards the queer community. And the feeling was and there is a reason that people should be able to defend themselves if it comes to an unfortunate encounter in public.
Speaker: And that felt like it was not only a way to open a business, but also something that would be good to give back to the community. So i was working on this in the background, working on developing the website, working on developing, you know, our client base, figuring out how to advertise to the community and so on, which was amazing. It was an amazing exercise in so many ways of meeting so many different people who said, I've done it. This works. That doesn't, this is how you do it. This is what, and this is how you reach out to the community and so on. Hmm. Okay, great. And meeting a lot of people along the way.
Speaker: So fast forward again to, you know, this conversation with my brother, he calls again and he leaves another voicemail message and he's you know saying, I need to talk to you. Okay. What's going on? So I go ahead and call him back and I said, Hey, so is everything okay? And he goes, yeah. Um, so there's a thing happening, a weird thing that happened with dad.
Speaker: Okay. He says, um, you told, told dad that you're bi right yeah when did you tell him a year ago about and you you're sure he you're sure you told him you're bi i'm like well yeah what what is going on says well because um i was mentioning to dad how you're doing this uh self-defense stuff and and things like that and you're doing it for the community and uh you know because you know, that's important to you. And he goes, wait, what community is what my father said. And my brother goes, well, you know, to the the queer community.
Speaker: My dad goes, why is he doing that to the queer community? And my brother goes, well, because Marcus is bi. And my father says, what do you mean he's bi? Huh.
Speaker: And my brother says, yeah, I mean, he's been out and he told you this years ago. And my father goes, he doesn't, this is the first time I'm hearing of this.
Speaker: Okay. Interesting. yeah And I tell my brother, wait, was was he confused? And my brother goes, I'm not quite sure, but he says that you never came out to him.
Speaker: So how did you come out to him? And I said, well, we sat down and we had a very, very long conversation for over an hour. And I kind of you know recounted the conversation to him or whatever. He goes, yeah, he didn't know. Okay.
Speaker: This is really... odd he goes yeah so um dad is i think starting to have a little bit of like mental degradation and it's a bit of a concern i was like okay so he says yeah and um so here's the problem we need to tell mom and sis that this is going on so okay but they don't know you're out right And this is how we know that he's having the issue.
Speaker: Right. Because it's not like, hey, what did you have for dinner last week? And he forgot. Forgetting that your son came out to you is probably a little more substantial. Right.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm listening to him and I'm going, okay so in order for me to help him with his healthcare, I have to come out to my mother and my sister so that they understand the basis for why we're worried about him.
Speaker: Okay. That's certainly a different path. and Yeah. pathway. It makes a lot of sense though why your brother would want you to do that for your dad as well.
Speaker: Yeah. Because you're right. You don't forget that kind of conversation easily. No, no. And the thing is, you know, it started with my father just being hard of hearing. And so when you're hard of hearing, what happens is you start to see people, you know, talk, but you don't hear them.
Speaker: So you start to fill in the blanks mentally what you think they're saying to you. Right. But the problem is the the lack of hearing then internalizes the conversations that you have.
Speaker: You're not having that external interaction with others. It starts the whole process of your mental breakdown, you know, leads to dementia, Alzheimer's and so on. So this was a question of we need to get him help. um This is the weirdest coming out story I think I could possibly imagine. This is absolutely fucking bizarre. Yeah. yeah but First guest, and we're going to order you a trophy um because you win. You win. It's insane. It's absolutely insane.
Speaker: So then I say to him, okay, so i want you to know i had this conversation with mom years ago. This is what she said. So that's my reluctance. And he goes, um mom's come a long way. That was 40 some years ago.
Speaker: You yeah might give her a shot. She might be different than you remember. Okay. And then I had a little more courage to go ahead and talk to my mother and my sister because, well, now I had a a reason. Like I had a mission for this. It wasn't just, hey, I want to talk about me. It's like, no, I care about dad and I want dad to be safe and healthy and all that.
Speaker: And so I told my mom, I said, hey, so I just want you to know I'm bi. And she goes, she just kind of nods and she smiles and she goes, it's great. I love you regardless. Don't worry about it.
Speaker: Okay. And then my sister just smiled and she goes, I'm happy to hear it. I'm really happy for you. Okay. So on that note, there's something else that you should know.
Speaker: yeah. Yeah. then talk to her, you know, talk to them about dad and stuff like that. So that was my very, very weird coming out to to my family. I see.
Speaker: Huh. Yeah. It's a roundabout way, but you got there. Got there. Yeah. Just didn't quite expect that that would happen. Right. not Not the way you expected to reach that point.
Speaker: No. Yeah. no That's why when you when I was talking to you both and you were saying, oh, you know, do you want to be a guest or whatever? I said, sure, I have a story that's a little more This American Life maybe than... A bit unconventional. moment of pathos, I think. that's Yeah. yeah So then everything is is good now? your Your dad is receiving the kind of care that he needs, I would imagine? Nope.
Speaker: no No, he's very, very stubborn. You know, he's like, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. There's no reason. I don't need doctors. I don't need doctors to psychoanalyze me and all that. It's like, it's not, it's just elder care. It's different.
Speaker: Yeah. Oh, it's difficult. We're not saying you're crazy. We're saying um that there's something going on that you need some help with. Yeah. Right. And there's a lot of care and love there too.
Speaker: Yeah. But I understand, again, I think it's a generational thing. I think that generation is very hesitant to accept help or to even admit that they need help.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. And he's very stoic about, you know, i'm I'm taking care of my family. That's what I do. Don't worry about me. Don't talk about me. Don't look at me. I'm there for you guys. That's where my life is.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah I do want to ask you about finding that guy because we already established that you're like one in 10 or there are nine women you're attracted to and only one man. And so we need to know, like, have you explored this?
Speaker: How did you find a guy? What did you do from that angle? Um, I've tried, I've tried. The problem is I live in an area that's a little more rural than a big city.
Speaker: So the, the pond is a lot smaller to begin with. Yeah. And then the question is really, again, being demisexual, being samosexual, I need to have that connection first.
Speaker: right I may see somebody and go, oh, wow, they're really cute. But if I can't hold a conversation with them after 10 minutes, it's not going to happen. right yeah And yeah problem the problem with a lot of the apps like Sniffies and Grindr whatever, they're designed for hookups. So they're exact antithesis, the exact opposite of what I need and what I want.
Speaker: I don't want a hey, I need a random body for the next 30 minutes. right I want somebody who I can have as a friend with benefits. I want something that is somebody who i have in my life for years. right yeah um A friend who I feel so close to that it becomes a physical relationship on top of what we already had before.
Speaker: That sort of development. if you're not going to date, then that's, I don't know how you can make that happen. Right. So yeah I've tried, ah I create a account on field, um, because that was recommended to me as like, okay, if you're looking for something more along those lines, this is probably the app for you.
Speaker: But the problem with field again, small pond, and I'm looking at all these faces. I'm like, there's no, so there's nothing, no one that seeing that's instantly like, Oh, that's, he's cute or he's interesting or whatever.
Speaker: um and what i'm finding is that a lot of the solo guys um either they want to hook up or they're kind of creepy like it's you know hey i'm starting a conversation with them and hey these are my interests or whatever i like cooking i like going out to the movies i like art and it's like hey send me a dick pic Yep. oh That sounds sounds about right.
Speaker: ah Yeah. This is not going the way I want to. So that would kind of end every single one of those conversations after short order. Okay. um okay I did find a guy, you know, who we liked each other on field and I said, oh, and I reached out to him and said, hey, so I want to, you know, want to meet and whatever. He says, yeah, let's go and have dinner and let's ah let's see what the vibe is.
Speaker: And then, of course, as part of that whole ethical non-monogamy is like very, very open conversation with your with your spouse, with your your partner, your loved ones. And I said, hey, so this is happening.
Speaker: How do you feel? Is that okay? Is that, you know, I want to gauge. I want to make sure that I'm completely open and and so on. She's like, no, go have fun. Great. Okay. And so we met and he's really, really nice. But then it became obvious over the course of a few weeks that he and I are just not so wanting the same thing. Like ah he likes, oh, I'm going to have dinner, come back to my place, and then we'll go from there in a physical relationship.
Speaker: And mine is, hey, we had a great dinner. how about dinner again next week? And he's like, yeah, I'm not that guy. um Okay. Okay. Fine. And so I respect that and we kind of just let everything kind of peter out and so on.
Speaker: Sure. And then I started to think, okay, so recently I started to wonder in my mind, okay, if I'm not finding that guy, like the guys either that I'm i'm connecting with are just not great people or they're they're just some sort of weird vibe going on there.
Speaker: What if I start to look at a male-female couple that's looking for a throuple? Right. Because then at least, you know, there is some sort of connection between those two people, a relationship that's built up over years that maybe is an inroad to, and we want to build up a connection with a third person as well.
Speaker: Yeah. so Right. Maybe. because that Makes a lot of sense. like I'm going to try whatever to to try to find that one person or the, you know, the people who I really click with. And the, the problem is that again, it seems like a lot of people are like, Hey, look, we play and we party and we do all this, you know, we have all these relationships on the side. Again, it becomes a very sexual relationship.
Speaker: Yeah. We're just looking for a sex partner, you know, in our, our life and whether we play separately or we play together, doesn't matter. That's what we're really looking for.
Speaker: And it seems like a lot of the times they're like, no, we're going to have dinner and then. yeah But the whole idea let's have dinner, let's go out for a hike, let's go out, let's really start to build up this relationship. It's not many people who really seem to want that. Not really a thing, right?
Speaker: right It's hard, especially over apps too. Like if a couple gets on an app, they're not looking for friends in that way. They're looking for friends.
Speaker: the benefits part of that first. Right. And that's the thing is for me, the order is out of whack yeah because you see a lot of like, you know, their tags on field versus I'm interested in empathy, communication, cuddling, whatever. Right.
Speaker: And a lot of the people who say that they want communication, they want this, you know long-term or whatever. They don't. I think that they think it sounds good. Like, oh, no, no, no. We'll we'll just you know meet up and then we'll have sex you know every single time. And then over the course of time, we'll develop that sort of closeness and that relationship.
Speaker: But my brain isn't wired that way. Right. Right. So it's been tricky. Really, really tricky. and So you haven't met a guy haven't been able to explore.
Speaker: Not really. But your search is ongoing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know there are other people out there who are, you know, probably have a similar mindset to myself, but they're totally the people who I do find online who are like that.
Speaker: It's like, where do you live? Oh, I'm in Japan. Great. ah Awesome. Right. Right. Yeah. Where are you? Oh, I'm in Norway. Phenomenal.
Speaker: That doesn't help me. Exactly. Exactly. Well, and depending on the dating app, I get this all the time where somebody who's like 2000 miles away from you gives you a like and it's just like, I don't know what to do with that. Like there's there's just no yeah chance that anything here is going to develop. Yeah.
Speaker: And even if you do have that back and forth online chatting with somebody, you never know if that's going to translate into a face-to-face in real life ah vibe.
Speaker: That's why i at least like to do vibe checks first. Even if we've been chatting a while, like have some kind of coffee meet, some kind of... meet where we're not taking our clothes off we're just seeing if we click in real life first yeah there was one person who was local he really really wanted to meet up with me and he was only about you know 15 minute drive and i said okay well let's meet at this you know cafe let's have a coffee and let's chat silence he just instantly went dead on the communication
Speaker: And then the next day picked up like, hey, how's it going? Fine, fine. What you up to today? um you know I'm going to be off work at five o'clock. You want i get together? Sure. Where would you like to meet? There's this coffee place. this fine Silence.
Speaker: Yeah. so Waiting for you to say something other than coffee. Right. right He clearly wanted wanted something hot, but not coffee. With cream in it, but yes.
Speaker: ah Yeah. And it's no you know, it's, it's a vibe chicken. It's a safety thing. Just like you've discussed on your, on your podcast. You, you need that. I think that's very, very important to make sure that.
Speaker: that's okay. You know, but I think that's also on the one-on-one relationship. A friend of mine says that he has encounters all the time, but they're in like, for instance, a bathhouse or, you know, he's in a, lives in a very gay area of the city. And, you know, the, the local gym is a cruisy, cruisy place, but there it's all public. So once again, there's a safety factor there. It's when it becomes a one-on-one, then things can get a little interesting. So.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. And that sort of thing, it's like, that's again, the opposite of what I'm looking for. So there's no interest really in that for me. I keep hoping that the person that I find locally is like, Hey, and you're really cool. And we like the same things and yay, but it's not really happening. This is the dream.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, do you have any advice for other bi men who are questioning themselves like you did?
Speaker: oh i think honesty. i think be honest with yourself. you know life For me, i think it would have been easier if I had kind of clued into the fact that those men interests that I had that were passing right there's a reason that your brain is telling you there's an interest there it's not an errant thought that comes and goes like oh what if your brain is trying to clue you into a truth you know right a very very deep truth be open to that and is that what you would tell your younger self as well if I could go back in time and talk to my younger self would be hey man you're bi
Speaker: Really? Yeah. See you later.
Speaker: have that
Speaker: First thing I do when I get a TARDIS, that's yeah's one of my first stops. ah And the problem with that is that one timeline, Grayson, that timeline becomes bi, but all the rest of them are questioning.
Speaker: just Well, Well, my my worry then is, but but what if that's a fixed point in time that can't be changed? Yeah. I mean, it really is kind of like going back in time. It's Schrodinger's bi-cat, right? Yeah.
Speaker: yes ah Until you other those words, the cat is neither straight nor bi nor gay. Only by opening up the box will we find out.
Speaker: The cat is just yelling to be let out of the box. Yeah, pretty much. That's right. ah But hey, it fits, so it sits. Exactly.
Speaker: Exactly. Is there anything else that we didn't cover that you want to share as well? Yeah, coming out to my kids. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, coming out to my kids. That was a question that my wife and I were, you know, mulling over. And I just said, yeah, I think they should know.
Speaker: And that's the thing about this new generation, the younger generation. You know, they're Zoomers, I think is the correct term. And so I, you know, once again was a little nervous, but it was like, this is who I am. I have practice coming out to people. So I think I got this down pat right now.
Speaker: And I told them, and my kids are like, okay, yeah that's it. One of my kids just kept chewing dinner and going, whatever. am i And my younger my younger child was like, I have a few questions. And I was like, okay, here we go.
Speaker: But they're all very vanilla sort of questions. They weren't like, are you leaving mom? and Nothing like that. It was just like, how does that work? Right? Yeah. And that was it. They're like, okay, whatever.
Speaker: So very, very different, I think, than us with our generation and, you know, having that moment, like, yeah how would that happen? They're just... But also, I think very important, like your journey, you came out as bi without having had ah real-life encounter. and But you know your desires. You know what you're attracted to and what...
Speaker: porn you're watching or who you're camming with. And so it's doesn't matter that you've had or not had real life experience with another man that you can still call yourself by. And I think a lot of people still question it like, oh, I haven't done anything in real life. So I'm, I'm still just curious, but think it's i think just like your journey, like you came out as bisexual and you, you know who you are and you're in touch with those feelings. And I think that's very admirable that you came out to your partner, your family, your friends, all this stuff. And you felt, ah confident enough in it to do all of that.
Speaker: Right. Yeah, it was. And then again, you know, my moment of self-realization was in a very emotional moment, very, very emotional moment. And I think that really was key to it, that the kind of angst, fear, anger, all those, all those emotions running at the same time were what kind of cracked that glass finally.
Speaker: Yeah. honest When I blurted it out, that's when I realized, oh my God, that's, true you know that was that was a that was a big moment i don't think that if that situ it's hard to say if that situation hadn't if the election hadn't gone the same way if i would still be in the same place i was before yeah i really don't know so you've been out to yourself for almost two years then uh for yeah yeah okay
Speaker: Yeah, coming up on two years, couple months. Yeah, well, I want to thank you so much, Marcus, for sharing your story with us. I think a lot of people will find a lot of similarities to their own journey, and maybe they are in a very similar spot to where you were in 2024.
Speaker: Possibly. So, yeah, thank you. Thank you, guys. Thanks so very much. So that was Marcus's story. And now i I loved that story. i mean there There were ups, there were downs, there there there was even an M. Night Shyamalan level twist.
Speaker: Absolutely there was. Yeah. Insert the robot chicken. What a twist sound here. What a twist. I think also we, uh, how are we? i I mean, no, nobody's going to top that, but nobody has to top that.
Speaker: I think so all all they do bisexual journeys are valid and everybody comes at this. Pardon the pun. Uh, uh, from a different direction and a different, uh, a different place in their lives, whether, you know, they're discovering that at a point in their life when they're older or younger or middle-aged, or i don't know, where are we? Are we middle-aged?
Speaker: i don't know. I, I used to work with somebody every time I opened my mouth, she said, what are you 12? So that'd be nice. Now, can I work with somebody? What are you 12?
Speaker: Yeah, but but she thought she said it because I was being nerdy and goofy. Oh, well that's not good. That's not good. That's not good at all. Well, thank you again to Marcus for sharing yes your story on a podcast. And we hope that it has resonated with some of you. I'm sure that it has.
Speaker: And if you want to share your story with us on this podcast, you can email us podcast at by men on filter.com. and you know explain a little bit about your story. You don't have to list out the whole story, but just say you'd like to share your story or you'd like to be interviewed on the show and and we'll set that up with you.
Speaker: For sure. And coming off of Marcus's interview and talking about meeting a guy and being demisexual and needing that connection, i thought ah our mini topic should be developing a friends with benefits situation and the hookup apps versus needing that connection. You know, a lot of men go to Sniffy's and Grindr because they're kind of household names. Yeah.
Speaker: But what if you need more than that? So if you need an app where there's going to be a chat component where you don't feel like you are running into Mr. Right Now's all the time and you're going to be able to develop a connection or friendship over time. And that can be on any app, honestly. like i think it can.
Speaker: You could even do it on Grindr, although you will have to sort through a lot of mr Right Now is to do this. But I think maybe if you're clear in your description that you want...
Speaker: to develop a ah friendship or chat first that you could find it there? Because, i mean, a lot of men go to Grindr first like because it is such a household name.
Speaker: it' It's a household name. they They know that it is focused on men finding men. so Yep. yeah i it It makes sense why they go there. Yep.
Speaker: But I mean, i I make clear in regardless of platform, my profile says that, you know, prefer building a comfort level with someone first.
Speaker: um if if I'm talking with somebody and I know I'm getting a decent vibe off of them, you know i I'll say you something hopefully cheeky and humorous, like, you know I want to make sure that I want to get naked with you before I decide to get naked with you.
Speaker: Right, right. And there's a lot of, on these apps, There's a lot of sex chat. Let's just be honest. like A lot of the conversation is... Oh, my stars.
Speaker: is sex talk or sexting that kind of thing and to me if you can have a conversation if you can hold a conversation that isn't just sex stuff then i'm gonna be more attracted and i think yeah anyone who's demisexual is going to be more attracted to that as well i don't want to just talk about the times that we're going to be naked together like that'll That'll happen maybe, but also what TV shows are you watching or with what movies have you seen that are good? Like what music do you like? That kind of thing. Like develop some kind of rapport that isn't just, you know, how big is your dick and send me a picture, please. Yeah. It's like, um, no.
Speaker: Yeah. ah No, you're still you you have to earn seeing that. Right. Unless I'm just you feeling especially. Never mind. What were we saying?
Speaker: ah We all have our weaknesses. All those times are you're thinking with the wrong head. I mean, yes, it is certainly something that happens.
Speaker: but But no, I mean, ah there was a Discord server that you there's one guy here in the area that yeah we we did meet in person once briefly in public oh and just have not had opportunities to meet up again next. But we we were talking nerdy stuff and role playing games. And it was like that.
Speaker: Yes. yeah I mean, that's what you want. Yes. the The place we met in public for the vibe check was a gaming store. We both go to.
Speaker: ah that's great. That's great, yeah. you know and And spent, you stood there in the store for half an hour or so talking games.
Speaker: Exactly. So it it's like, okay, yeah, this this is passing the vibe check. And as as these things are wont to do scheduling sucks.
Speaker: It does, yeah, yeah. And i think chatting over time, like is a, is a good idea to hopefully develop that kind of rapport and hopefully that comfort level with somebody who will then want to meet for that vibe check.
Speaker: Because so often with hookup apps, you will run into people who want to meet and then we'll ghost to you. But maybe if you talk with them for a few months, not saying that it has to be a few months, but yeah,
Speaker: if you develop a longer term relationship, quote unquote, like a chat relationship, then maybe that'll, there'll be more of a comfort level on both sides because it yeah honestly is nerve wracking meeting and a new person, ah whether they're man or woman, really really like that can be for Yeah.
Speaker: No, it it absolutely is. Especially if you we're We're being honest here that the goal is to eventually get naked.
Speaker: Yeah. It's like, okay, you did you've you said before, yeah know we're you're back in that when we were talking about the Jackoff Clubs. It's like you're you're at that high school dance.
Speaker: So you're, you're that high school kid. So, uh, um, or you're, you're Chris Farley in that one sketch. So remember the time that you did this. Yeah, that was really cool.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And also you should trust your instincts. Like if someone is giving you a bad vibe over chat, and maybe it's time to break off that communication. Yep.
Speaker: I mean, yeah it it can even be something as little as, you know, you may not check into the app for a little while and you come back and, you know, there there's a reply from somebody that you had a very brief conversation with that seemed to be going good in the So I guess you're not interested.
Speaker: Okay, well, if that's what you're immediately jumping to because I i lived life for a holiday weekend. Yeah. Then you're absolutely right.
Speaker: That's important to remember, too, that the person on the other end of your conversation on an app has a ah life outside of this. And yes i I think I actually skipped this when we were talking about apps, but I look at apps like a big bar.
Speaker: And you're kind of walking through the bar and you might have a conversation with someone for a few minutes or it might be longer than that. And you're just kind of drifting through. And who knows if one of those people is going to be the best friend with benefits that you can find or or not. Like you just kind of have to...
Speaker: feel things out and not take things too seriously. Like you just said, like somebody who then accuses you of ghosting them after like a day of no messages or something. It's like life happens. like Yeah. As, as long as they're, you know, not a jerk about it, then I think it can be forgiven. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, it's like, you know, i if i if I'm offline for a few days for whatever, you I'll jump back in and say, hey, sorry, I was offline for a few days. Yeah, nothing wrong with that. but But yeah, you know i've I've got shit to do.
Speaker: Exactly. yeah Exactly. You know when you'll, I'll occasionally get the question. So when are you usually available? My dude, I got to play, kind of play that by ear. Yeah.
Speaker: Because I, I may have the okay from my partner to meet up with someone. I have other things that have to be done too.
Speaker: Yeah. I can't, yeah I can't just say, let's go. know. Yeah. You know, just earlier today, i had a guy message me and we'd been talking for a little while, but it's only sex stuff. And he was like, hey, I'm going to be in your area soon. Are you free? It's like ah with only a couple hours notice. I don't think so. Like, ah no, not quite me a couple of days or a couple of weeks.
Speaker: Yeah, like, give me a little bit especially because I have not met with this person before. We haven't had a vibe check or anything like that. It's like, I'm not sure I want to...
Speaker: ah jump into the deep end with you quite yet. So, yeah, i I had someone just today ask him, ask that question. You when are you usually available? And was like, well, I mean, if I'm going to be very, very general and vague evenings, but not every evening.
Speaker: Right. Oh, you said evenings. That means this evening let's get together. you know it And I have to figure all this out because I have standing commitments pretty much every weekend.
Speaker: Yeah. And I may already have commitments for this week. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's like as as we are recording this, you I'm you communicating with somebody that I have exactly one night this week that is open. Right.
Speaker: A very small window of opportunity. Yes. So, you know, we'll we'll see if it happens or not. we're We're teasing again.
Speaker: Tune in next time to see if it happened or not. Oh, we'll find out. We'll find out. I think that's it for our mini topic. think we've yeah we've covered it so pretty well.
Speaker: Where can people send comments, praise, adulation, pics? my Money too. Yeah. yeah Well, if you've got a story of your own, like we were saying earlier, we would love to hear it.
Speaker: Maybe it's something that you're proud of, something you're still figuring out, just an experience that you think other people might relate to. Send it to podcast at by men unfiltered.com.
Speaker: And if you're okay with us reading it on the show, just include okay for air in your email. And if you want to keep the conversation going, you can find us on Facebook, Instagram, threads, and Twitter slash X at Byman Unfiltered and on Blue Sky at BymanUnfiltered.com.
Speaker: Tell us what you thought of the episode or come share your own story. Yeah. What did you think of Marcus's story? Very curious. I'm sure ah he would want to hear as well. Yes.
Speaker: Yeah. Yes. We, we will pass on any feedback that he is not able to see. That's true. Yes. Now next week, I think we're going to have fun. We're going to stick some things in some things and talk about toys. Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, so we're going back to the whole Transformers conversation from a few episodes ago. That's that's exactly what is. We're going to get out our He-Man figures and our Transformers and... And going to make them fuck.
Speaker: I'm sure that fan fiction exists on the internet. like I am sure. Yeah. i forty two whatever he is thirty four thirty four Rule not
Speaker: That's a different rule. Oh, yes. Well, i i have I have gone to the absurd again with with the Transformers and the He-Man.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: But that's my job. It's in my job description. i wrote it. That's right. That's right. Although definitely don't stick Transformers in any kind of holes. You've got to make sure things are body safe.
Speaker: Or He-Man toys. I mean, you know, that's tough. This is true. But what if... Are we sure not He-Man toys? What about Fisto? Hmm.
Speaker: but I think he's allowed. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Speaker: ah Oh, there there there are many Gen Xers listening who, if they haven't had that thought already, they're having nightmares now. And then there are people too young to know who Fisto is that are like, what are they talking about? Maybe we'll explain it next week. map Maybe.
Speaker: if Yes, indeed. oh all right. Well, thank you for listening. And we will be back right here in a week to talk at you. Yes. Thank you very much.
Speaker: And we will see you then. Bye. Bye.
