Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Bi Men Unfiltered, a podcast for today's curious and bisexual man hosted by older, wiser bisexual men who were also once curious. From identity and relationships to dating, sex, community, and everything in between, nothing's off the table. Honest, authentic, and we're not afraid to get a little NSFW or more than a little. No shame, no stereotypes, just real conversations. On today's episode, am I bi enough?
Speaker: i don't know. Are you? I think I am I think I am, but yeah I am totally by enough. Well, maybe um maybe I'm not by enough. Maybe I should be more by.
Speaker: Yes. Or does this mean, am I enough to be called calling myself by? Is that what that is? that what that question is? Maybe we will explore this on today's episode.
Speaker: Or is there a smart ass answer like when you know Lisa Simpson asked Bart, what's the hit sound of one hand clapping? And he just you know was opening and closing one hand. Right.
Speaker: Everybody knows that. Yeah. That was a great episode. Was that season one? Season one or two? was early. It was early. Yeah. First, of course, we want to talk about what we've been up to this week.
Speaker: Yeah, i'll i'll I'll go first again because I ain't up been up to shit. You got nothing. What? I got nothing. Come on. ah we We are in all hands on deck season at work. And then that that keeps me from getting any hand on a dick. There you go. Yeah. But you we're we're also one person short, thanks to a new arrival in their family. so wow So there's there's one fewer set of hands on the deck. so
Speaker: That can be a problem. That can be a problem. So it it it's a case of ah it's it's work in time. Yeah. bought one of the bosses in from europe next week and yeah okay okay how about you well i've been up to a few things yes let me get my popcorn popcorn Yeah. Corn and coconut oil.
Speaker: So I'm going to a bathhouse event with a friend with benefits and ah she and I are going together. So it's a bisexual event at this bathhouse and we're going to go together and see what fun we can get up to. And I've been to this bathhouse once and so has she.
Speaker: And so we kind of know the layout of everything and what we might want to get into. and All right. They have like, ah you know, swings set up as well. Like a nice sling.
Speaker: And so she expressed interest in the sling. And I'm like, oh, OK, like this is interesting because I've never actually done the sling thing. So that'll be fun to to try out. So we'll see. maybell Maybe get another story out of it.
Speaker: Yeah, hopefully. Hopefully so. Or maybe quite not not as long a story as the spanking party from last week But we'll see. All right. Oh, man. I know. I know.
Speaker: I think it's time for the word of the week. Word of the week. yeah What's our word of the week this time? Our word of the week. It's actually like two words of the week and it's also resources of the week. So it's doing double duty here. And that is the Kinsey scale and the Klein grid.
Speaker: And these are two sorts of tests to determine how by you might be, I suppose, or at least this is a way to describe experience.
Speaker: ah your desires and whether they lean heterosexual or homosexual somewhere in between. And so i will put the links in the show notes to Klein grid and the Kinsey scale. So that ah our listeners can check them out. The Kinsey scale came first and it is a six point scale where one is that you're totally heterosexual and six is that you're more homosexual or you're exclusively homosexual. And then in between it's like shades of gray. Yeah.
Speaker: And the Klein grid is a little bit different in that it is more detailed, I suppose, on your desires and attractions. So it's sort of an evolution of the Kinsey scale.
Speaker: And there are, of course, various tests on the internet that you can take, various quizzes to determine where you are on the Klein grid where you are on the Kinsey scale.
Speaker: Now, I want to ask, ah Grayson, have you taken either of these tests? I have taken one for the Kinsey scale years ago, and i am around a two. Around a two. I'm also a two, or at least I was a two. And then I took one today while I was, ah i took another test while I was ah putting together the outline for this episode, and it told me that I was a three.
Speaker: So I don't know if ah I'm somewhere in between two and three, where it's like, primarily heterosexual, but more than a little homosexual ah in terms of desire. And then three is like right down the middle, like equally ah both of them.
Speaker: And then the Klein grid, which I took and a quiz for that, that told me I was completely equal ah in both. I am a bi-equal in terms of the Klein grid. So, yeah, my sexual attraction, fantasies, emotional preference, social preference, lifestyle, identity, all of that, I'm like equally attracted worry right down in the middle. So, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, now I want to retake a Kinsey and i I want to take the Klein grid. Yeah. Now, of course, none of these are like official tests, like, but it gives at will give a partner an idea of where your desires or preferences lie. And so it can be useful for describing things.
Speaker: Like if a partner's like, what does this mean? and The Kinsey scale, I think it's a nice one to say, well, I'm primarily this, but I also like a little bit of this. And the client grid is, of course, a little more detailed but not as simplistic i guess as the kinsey scale we can say kinsey this i i literally just ran through the kinsey scale test and it moved me to a three as well all right hey high five yes yeah oh i three high three yes high three yeah A couple of weeks ago, I i went to a gay bar.
Speaker: I don't know if I said that on the show. This is another thing that happened. I was ah i was in downtown Seattle, so I went ah to a gay bar called Diesel. And there was a guy there that had a shirt that said Kinsey Sixx.
Speaker: And I thought that was so awesome because that, of course, is entirely homosexual. Right. and on the scale. And i I missed the opportunity to go up it up to him and just say, I love that shirt because somebody else knows about the Kinsey scale and you're advertising that you're a Kinsey six. That's awesome.
Speaker: Yes. Love that. All right. Let's see. ah Let's talk about the main topic and what buy enough means.
Speaker: And we can kind of kick it off with who decides if you're buy enough. Ultimately, would hope that— Is there a sorting hat or some kind of like ah the quiz like like we've just laid out that will tell me if I'm bi enough to call myself bisexual?
Speaker: Ideally, it would be we ourselves who do, but we we all know that that humans aren't wired that way. This is true. Humans aren't wired that way. it's It's very rare for us to accept our own determination of who we are. We want validation from someone else.
Speaker: That's right. What would the criteria even be to determine this? Well, I mean, one would hope the criteria would be really obvious, but when you're speaking of being bisexual, there is a lot of societal presumptions based on who you are currently partnered with, I would say.
Speaker: you So we gallows humor that we we want to get out of the hellhole state that we live in, but we are yeah we don't want to leave our marginalized found family behind while we can fight for them and pass as straight.
Speaker: Right. So... yeah they Already went a little downer there. Sorry. Sorry, folks. Just a little bit. Just a little bit.
Speaker: Do you have to be a Kinsey three or a bi equal to call yourself bi? Like, do you have to be attracted to both genders? Absolutely. Equally.
Speaker: No. No. Buts about it. No, although, you know, iy I've mentioned it before, I used to have a horrible misconception about what the word meant.
Speaker: Right. And so didn't apply it to myself, even though now I believe it does. Yeah. Yeah. So part part of that is, again, that internal self-assessment.
Speaker: Indeed. Plus, I know I've experienced the bi-cycle. I'm sure you have as well. The bi-cycle, if you've not experienced it as a a bisexual man, is where you find yourself...
Speaker: Maybe week to week, maybe day to day, you're more attracted to one gender or the other, depending a number of factors. And you may up... Depending which the wind is blowing. There is that. There is that too.
Speaker: Yeah. And that may cause you to question whether you're bi or not. Like if one day you're totally attracted to men and then the next day you're totally attracted to women,
Speaker: doesn't necessarily mean you're not bisexual anymore. It just means you're on the roller coaster that is the bicycle. Yeah, just like all of us. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things like, what do I want for lunch today?
Speaker: Sandwich or a burger or a hot dog or a taco or things are whatever ah whatever whatever you're in the mood for, right?
Speaker: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And attraction can be be very fluid and change over time. So it's, you know, I think with, especially with men who are discovering their bi-side later in life, they're discovering that sexuality and desires are fluid and they can change over time. It's not something that you develop only in your teenage years, right?
Speaker: Right. Let's say you are questioning yourself and you think, well, I've never been with a guy. I've never had ah an IRL experience. Does that, can I really be bi in that?
Speaker: Yes. Question. Why, why, why am I bi in that sense? Well, I mean, is someone who is straight, who has never had and experience, a sexual experience with anyone, are they still straight?
Speaker: How do they know they're straight if they've never had an in-real-life encounter? Exactly. who are they Who are they attracted to? Exactly. That's what it's about. It's about who you are attracted to, not about what you have actually done in real life at all.
Speaker: Really. yeah And you can be sexually attracted, but not romantically attracted. We've talked about this before in a couple of episodes where you can be bisexual and heteroromantic, which means you're still ah romantic towards members of the opposite sex, but you're also sexually attracted to men and women because you're bisexual.
Speaker: Yep. Yep. Right here. yeah ah right Right here, too. And that that was my fundamental misunderstanding that had me take literal decades before i instance unlearned my errors, relearned at more accurately and said, oh yeah, that's me.
Speaker: Yep. Pretty much. And how do fantasies play into this? Like, what if I'm just fantasizing about a same sex encounter? Does that make me buy?
Speaker: am I buy then if I've just thought about it? If that's what I think about while masturbating? I would say at least curious. At least curious. At least because you are like, that that's the literal definition of curious that you're wondering about it and thinking about it. So hello, Mr. Webster.
Speaker: that's That's exactly what what it means. Yeah.
Speaker: Let's talk about being straight passing or being in a same-sex relationship. Does that mean you can't be bi if you're in a straight relationship?
Speaker: if If it means that, my wife and I are both doing it wrong. Exactly. You can be straight passing or gay passing. Like, yeah, I don't think it has any, any bearing on who or what you're going attracted to, who you might fantasize about, what you want to do, what gets you off, that kind of thing. Yeah.
Speaker: Yep. and i And speaking of us doing it wrong, i I want to give my wife some credit that you know i I told the story about the time that we were in the grocery store and she waited till I couldn't see the cute firefighter to say that they sent a cute firefighter.
Speaker: one of our like I think it was our last trip to the grocery. She mentioned, oh, hey, i they sent, no, A couple of trips ago, she said there was a cute one.
Speaker: It was after we turned down aisle and we came back out and he was down the main aisle. She pointed him out to me. This last time, we hadn't even gotten out of the produce section, which is like the entry where we go in at the grocery store.
Speaker: And there were two of them. And we started you know after after we got out of earshot of them, of course. Like, okay, well, yeah, they sent him... And she's like, yeah, the the one with the one with the mustache was pretty cute. And like, hey, they both had mustaches. Which one are you talking about?
Speaker: Apparently was just fixated on one of them. She's getting better about it. She's not keeping them all to herself. Yeah. That's the fun part of being bi and in a relationship is is that banter between like who you find sexy, who you both find sexy. Yes.
Speaker: Yeah. Yes. Let's talk about imposter syndrome, which I think is a big thing in the bi community where you don't quite fit anywhere. Exactly. Right.
Speaker: Because LG, the LGBT spaces generally are very one way or the other, like very, I don't know that they're necessarily by and antagonistic to buy people, but it doesn't quite feel as welcoming sometimes, but yeah. know Yeah. And you know, I slightly,
Speaker: i start I'm about to say i slightly have run into that, but the circumstance that I'm thinking of in particular that I'm really looking at, for want of a better term, testing my hypothesis, I have not been to since I have been out.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. And that is ah for work on multiple occasions. I have been in Palm Springs on the same weekend that their huge Pride Festival.
Speaker: Oh, all right. Takes place. Hmm. It is a great time that the whole city has a great vibe, especially around that time. I love the vibe of the place. It's totally relaxed and, and chill. I, it is my favorite work trip when I get to go. Um,
Speaker: the last couple of years, the reason that I get sent for work, there hasn't been as much volume to warrant sending me. Hmm.
Speaker: Okay. So I haven't gotten to go, which is a shame because even um the year right before I came out, my wife and a pan friend of ours that I've mentioned on the show a couple of times both said, we want to go next time because it's around Pride and we want to go to Pride.
Speaker: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. It's like you and like, OK, this would be great because the hotel will be paid for by work. My airfare will be paid for. My food will be paid for. so make for a cheap vacation.
Speaker: um and But obviously, haven't been able to go because they haven't sent me since then. And I have since come out. So I i am interested in going to see what my perceptions are now.
Speaker: Yeah. you know Do i do I feel that sort of imposter syndrome? Because I wasn't out before, I was just enjoying the vibes. And because the festival takes over all of the main couple of streets in downtown Palm Springs, they're they're well aware that there are all walks of life coming through because there's plenty of restaurants. That's that's how I've been in the middle of everything because we walk to dinner.
Speaker: for work you know so and yeah know we've walked you co-workers and i have walked up and down just taking a look at all of the displays and vendors and everything and and the acts you know the musical acts that are playing and all of that and so it it's one thing ah when i'm there as technically i'm an outsider because i'm not not because i'm not part of the community but because i'm there for work not for the festival does that make sense And i I am interested to see what kind of vibe I perceive if I go even in part for the festival and I am in more like by presenting clothes, like, you know some of my stuff within, you know, like by flag colors or yeah yeah what whatnot. Yeah.
Speaker: So I'm curious to see what sort of vibe there is when I'm not a presumed straight normie. Right.
Speaker: Yeah, and I felt it like if I go to a gay bar, I've always felt like, but what if they find out i'm not totally ki I'm not totally gay? What if they find out that I have sex with women too? What's going to happen? Are they going to throw me out? Sorry. Yeah, and... Can't be in here. And...
Speaker: you know it In the case where where I'm talking about going, i'm I'm also interested in, okay, I'm going to be there with another bi woman and a pan woman. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: ah ah Well, yeah, is the is the palm springs thing the Palm Springs thing is mainly gay men, right? It's not so much gay women or gay women?
Speaker: I have seen an entire mix. Oh, okay. I have seen an entire mix. it It is some... If it were to be weighted in one direction, I would say gay men, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. ah Because... so funny, funny story. One year when one of my coworkers and I were walking up and down the festival is the first time that we'd really paid attention to the, you know, like explored the festival.
Speaker: Sure. We, so we, we saw a food stand that said novelty waffles. And we're like, how the hell can waffles be novelty? ah And we got up, we got up closer and they were shaped like dicks.
Speaker: Yeah. That's how, it's like, ah And that was our reaction. Oh, that's how. Okay. Then you play Lego my ego. Yes.
Speaker: Now we had just come from dinner or I actually would have gotten one for dessert. Oh, that would have been nice. Yeah. yeah Yeah. I mean, they they had a ah strawberries and cream dessert waffle on the menu.
Speaker: And I was like, that sounds good. But ah if I'd gotten that for dessert too, I also would have been cheating on Sherman's delicatessen. I see. Best desserts I've ever had.
Speaker: um Sherman's is also not a sponsor of the podcast. But could be. Reach out. it could be. But go I encourage anyone to, if if you want to just make yourself hungry for sweets, just Google Sherman's Deli Palm Springs dessert.
Speaker: Yeah. And you will see their you will you will see their dessert case. They make all of their cakes and pies on site. Oh, my God. and Okay.
Speaker: And a single slice of cake is like $10. But it the size and taste of it, it's worth $10. Oh, my gosh. You're making me want to book a trip to Palm Springs right now.
Speaker: Just for that. Not even for anything else. not Not for Pride. Not for Buy Fuck Fest. not over Nope. Nope. just I mean, i ah one of my coworkers that also loves Sherman's, I was watching Diners Drive-Ins and Dives one night, and he went to Sherman's.
Speaker: And I immediately grabbed my phone, and I i texted her, and I was like, Guy Fieri's and Shermans.
Speaker: And and i'm I'm, I'm jumping up and down and I'm pointing at the screen and telling my wife, that's the place. That's the place. Yeah. I'm looking at their cakes right now and the holy crap.
Speaker: Yes. I'm into it. I'm into it. I did. So when I first ah had started dating a guy in the early, well, mid two thousands, I went to a gay bar a gay club with him. And one of his friends was very skeptical that I was even gay. well And I said, I'm not gay. I'm bi.
Speaker: And I was looked at as like, ah right, like you don't look like you're into guys, which I don't think that's a thing. Although I will admit my gaydar completely broken, always been broken, never same at all. So who knows?
Speaker: Same, same, same. Yeah, but you know, what ah that whole thing doesn't even really matter. But I will say like the pressure to prove it. So this is something that you might get if you tell a partner, tell a friend or or whatnot, like that you have to prove somehow in in any form that you are bi. I mean, what kind of proof do want? Right? what i i Am I supposed to just you drop down and start blowing somebody right here? what What proof do you want? Yeah, is that how that works? I don't know how that would logistically work. But also, you don't, if you're straight or gay,
Speaker: You're not getting ah any kind of demand for proof either. So why is that a thing for bi people? I just don't understand. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that that kind of goes back to yeah what I mentioned earlier, that there's there's the assumption based on who you're with that you are – one end or the other of that spectrum rather than being somewhere in the middle.
Speaker: um i think you watched it too when it was linked on a discord server. i haven't, I haven't finished the whole thing cause it's like two hours long, but there's a recent video on YouTube about,
Speaker: ah bi representation in media and yeahp this same kind of of thing about you the assumptions. And you even in that media, if a character says that he or she very ah very specifically bi,
Speaker: they still are ultimately perceived by the orientation of their, their romantic relationship.
Speaker: Yeah. So like to, and or there was, and there was a scene with like a male, male, female threesome and the two guys kissed, but because they had their eyes closed, that's not bisexual.
Speaker: Yes. They had their eyes closed. They didn't know who they were kissing. yeah hu Yes. ah Sure. Sure. That's a thing. That's a thing. You definitely can't tell if your eyes are closed, which yeah you're kissing in a threesome. i I definitely can't tell that there's stubble there. i definitely. and and And believe me, I don't think Zendaya has stubble. I don't think so. No.
Speaker: And, you know, it's like... a that That whole thing, that whole portion of that video had me just scratching my head saying, what yeah the hell are they saying? Yeah, we'll have to link to that video in the show notes so that people can watch it. But yeah, very interesting but in terms of bi-media.
Speaker: To the casual observer... my wife and I are, you know, walking, walking through that grocery store. Yep. Unless someone actively hears us both, you just totally objectifying the cute firefighters.
Speaker: There's going to be the assumption that we are both straight. Sure. Yeah. I mean, that's human nature, right? You'd see yeah a man and a woman. who appear to be in a relationship or connected, you probably don't even think they're just friends. You probably think it's some yeah kind of relationship.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. And meanwhile, yeah, I mean, we go we Most times we go the same time to the grocery every two weeks. And there is a a lovely couple of older gay gentlemen that we chit chat with at the Starbucks every two weeks yeah when we're there.
Speaker: And there there are obviously assumptions made about the nature of their pairing because of how they interact. Yeah. There are assumptions made about ours, given how we interact. Again, unless they're eavesdropping and hearing us both say, which one are you saying was the cute one? Because they both have mustaches. Right. Right. Reminding me, i just watched this recently, the episode of Seinfeld, where ah Jerry and George are presumed gay because of an eavesdropping incident.
Speaker: And there's the whole denial of it. And not that there's anything wrong with that. See, I i was i was never a Seinfeld viewer, but I i recall when...
Speaker: ah Chandler and Joey were presumed to be gay because they were babysitting Ross's son, Ben. Right. Yes. Together. Yeah. yeah Yeah. There's no presumption that anybody in any of those relations could be bi. It's always one or the other in both of those situations, the Joey Chandler thing and the George and Jerry thing. It's like nobody said they're bi or like both. It's one or the other. And, Just another example of popular culture kind of reflecting back ah societal values that are heteronormative values ah back at itself. so and And then by by that same token on Friends,
Speaker: the whole Joey Chandler misread was played for laughs. Exactly. but yeah joey Joey and Chandler are gay. Whereas when Rachel was trying to get Winona Ryder, special guest star Winona Ryder,
Speaker: To admit that they had kissed in high school or college, that was played up as, well, that's kind of cool and hot. Right. And that was just experimentation. that Yeah. Isn't that hot?
Speaker: Yes. i'm But I mean, you know, I'm going to let my biases show this is Jennifer Aniston and Winona Ryder. So, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Mm hmm. Anyway, ah my experience is not like your experience is not like our guest Marcus's experience. Like ah everybody has their own by experience here.
Speaker: And can you or should you explore, even if you haven't figured out if you actually like the same sex? I mean, i i would say if you're wondering, sure.
Speaker: yeah Because obviously there's that at least little kernel of curiosity. Yeah. And it may end up being, oh, I'm like a point, not a two, a point two on the Kinsey scale. Right. I i can look at the Tom Holland lip sync battle video and say, that is an attractive, confident man and not want to do anything or have any interest otherwise.
Speaker: Right. Or you can just like Tom Holland and know other men and that's fine. Yeah. You might have to fight Zendaya again. True. And I would put my money on her, no matter who the guy is.
Speaker: Yeah. Because I don't think Zendaya plays. Indeed. Indeed. So coming back, bringing it back to us, bringing it back to yeah you and I, Grayson. ah Yes.
Speaker: Did we, have we ever wondered if we were by enough? Yeah. I mean, sometimes because sometimes yes, and then sometimes I also wonder, am I overdoing it?
Speaker: Yeah. not not in in terms of like you know I've mentioned on on the show that I'm usually wearing my Biflag dog tag necklace or one of my Biflag bracelets.
Speaker: um I've got a bunch of Biflag color and pride shirts. I've got a pair of ah pride Converse low tops.
Speaker: And so sometimes I'm like, am I overdoing? Is that too much? Yeah. and am Am I am I doing too much and saying, hey, yo, over here, right here, like women and men.
Speaker: Bring it on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ah But yeah. And sometimes I'm like, OK, I don't know. i the right words for the circumstances where i'm wondering, well am I by enough?
Speaker: Because i know those moments occasionally, but I don't know how to put them into words to describe them. If that makes sense. Okay. Yeah, i think for me, I mean, the questioning was really about, am I gay or straight?
Speaker: Yeah. Or vice versa, I straight or gay? And it wasn't until the bisexual option kind of popped up in college where my college girlfriend said, hey what if what about this that i even thought about it. And so I never really had the thought, am I bi enough? Because after that sort of discussion, though the questioning on my end was, am I straight or gay? Not, yeah am I bi enough to be called bi?
Speaker: ah So I never actually wondered that. and i Yeah. that That helps me put the right words there.
Speaker: Hmm. Because I had that same thing, because i like I said in in the episode with my story, I am 99% certain that when I first started exploring, I hadn't even heard the term bisexual.
Speaker: Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't until a couple of years later. And then i keep coming back to saying I have had a fundamental misunderstanding of what i meant what it meant.
Speaker: And so that was part of that whole couple of decades because since I did not have romantic interest in men, was I bi enough to say bi? Right.
Speaker: Well, you don't have to have any romantic interest in men to be bi. I did not understand this when I was asking myself that question. Right.
Speaker: You can just like hairy chest or facial hair or dicks or balls or any of those features.
Speaker: Yeah, and so that that was probably the space where I was asking that question the most as I was trying to, what when I first started encountering both myself and others asking in those online areas, well, okay, how is it that you say that you're straight?
Speaker: But you find guys and dicks hot. Right. And so it was like, well, but that's the confusing part. Yeah. It's like, but I, and at the time, you know, by the, the wheels start turning in my head and it's like, well, I'm not by because I don't want to date men and I don't have romantic interest in men.
Speaker: hmm. So I'm not bi, but I'm also not curious because i know I like it. Right. So where do I fall in here? what what What term applies to me?
Speaker: And that this started my whole soapbox about labels to begin with. Right, right. And then there's the whole, well, i am bi-curious now. When does that graduate into definitely bi? Yeah.
Speaker: And see. but And do you have to have had an encounter before you can say that? No. Yeah. and No, you don't. But see, I personally, I skipped the whole curiosity phase.
Speaker: Yeah. Or the whole conscious curiosity phase. It was straight to, oh, hey, this is kind of fun. This is happening and it's kind of fun.
Speaker: I had a bike here. I would label myself as by curious, uh, after or during my college years where I wasn't, you know, i think part of it was experience level is because I wanted, i thought that by curious also indicated my experience level as well, right?
Speaker: Because I hadn't had that, many encounters in real life so if i say i'm bi-curious then the other person won't have the expectation of me that i will know how to do all the all of the things with uh yeah great experience that great skill sense yeah that mean but you know that that raises another you know kind of straight versus by thing. It's like no, nobody, well, perhaps the participant, but nobody expects when you're young and inexperienced and straight for you to know, right.
Speaker: How to do everything. It's like, yeah, That's true. Unless you're effective for anything a virgin. like If you're a virgin, the expectation is you may not know anything. But once you've had sex once, it's like nobody ever questions. If you're not a virgin anymore, nobody ever questions your experience level.
Speaker: Maybe they nobody ever should. Well, nobody ever questions your experience level. And if we're going to talk about stereotypes, people expect that you that you're horrible at it anyway because you're a dude.
Speaker: Wait, is that the expectation? Oh, I mean, that that's the that's the stereotype. The stereotype. I don't know about you. When I was younger, I wanted to try to be as knowledgeable about things as possible, even when I was not experienced at all. So I would you know read a lot of things.
Speaker: a lot of things. Oh, yeah. And try to like learn about actually things that i had no idea you know what or're actually to do I'm talking about the the stereotype of guys who are like, okay, but let me get it in there now.
Speaker: ah Okay, I'm done. no you you Okay. And the the woman is there like, um excuse me. Are you saying that um they've learned they've learned from porn to do it a certain way? It's, you know, the jackhammer.
Speaker: and And the woman and clearly loves it. And and yeah baly barely any kissing, just, you know. Yes. Yes, yeah we we are we are talking about the the stereotype of the self-centered, clueless. Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know that I ever thought that way. And I, I'm not exactly sure when I got the idea that porn wasn't the way to do it. And that I should, uh, it might've been formed from some pop culture.
Speaker: in fact, I'm going to go back to friends. There was an episode of Friends where Joey had a girlfriend where he couldn't do all of the things, so he ended up only focusing on her instead of him.
Speaker: Yeah. and she like gives him a bunch of fruit baskets to... yeah celebrate the fact that he was really taking care of her only. And that to me was maybe maybe a formative piece of media where if if I focus on my partner, then it'll I'll get that same kind of reaction. I don't know. or think.
Speaker: The reverse of that on Friends, you know, when they when I think it was just the girls were talking about exes and Monica mentioned so and so the I win guy. Oh, right. Every every time he finished, I win, i win. yeah We dated for two years and I never got to win once. Yeah.
Speaker: Yes. i think we're learning very much about how pop culture has ah has shaped our views on sexuality or sexual experiences. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Well, ah to wrap up here, any man out there listening to this right now who is wondering if they have to convince somebody, you don't.
Speaker: You don't have to prove your bisexuality to anybody. There's no licensing. There's no test that you have to present to prove that you are bisexual. And in the end,
Speaker: It's just a label. And it's to describe how you feel and what your desires are to another person. But you know what those are for yourself.
Speaker: And hopefully you can be true to yourself and you can be by on a number. Like if you've taken the Kinsey scale test or the Klein grid test, like there are so many different shades that in this amazing, ah label we call bisexual.
Speaker: Yep. Yep. We, there's, there's nobody there. Nobody's going to give you grade. No, I was about to say, i was about to say, nobody's going to give you a test, but we just said, Hey, oh you can take the, you can take these tests.
Speaker: Right. You know, no, nobody's going to give you a standardized test. Um, that you must pass in order to be able to you determine what and who you feel you are.
Speaker: And if you don't want to call yourself bisexual, that's also fine. There are straight men who enjoy giving other men oral sex, but still call themselves straight.
Speaker: and i I will do a mini version of my soapbox on labels. Okay. Which is that the most commonly used ones... are useful as a shorthand because they are the most commonly used.
Speaker: But yeah they are they are also woefully inadequate in capturing all the complexity and nuance of human sexuality. So if you don't feel that the quote-unquote correct label fits you, you're not required to adopt it.
Speaker: No, that's the great thing. They are a convenience, not a requirement. Absolutely. And on that note, I want to hear from you, listener. If you are by enough, prove yeah that you are by enough by emailing us and telling us that you are. ah
Speaker: you If you are still wondering if you're by enough, then you you're you're not alone. There's others out there. So if you have a story or question about it, email us at podcast at bymanunfiltered.com.
Speaker: Add okay for air if we can share it on the show. Yeah. And tell us about your experiences and ask us if you're by enough and we will we will be the sorting hat for you. We will tell you. Yes. And spoiler alert, our answer will be yes. That's right. i mean, you're listening to this podcast. You've listened this far into this episode of the podcast. The answer is definitely yes.
Speaker: And you can also follow us at by men, unfiltered, all one word on Facebook, Instagram threads, and X Twitter. Did I always say whatever we're calling it this week or by men and filter.com on blue sky, where you can keep the conversation going.
Speaker: Indeed. And there was something else I was going to say here, but I've forgotten what it was. Damn it. um what What was it about fruit baskets?
Speaker: It was totally about fruit baskets. Was it, was it about winning? Did you win? I win. i win yeah ah ah Oh, I know what I was going to say. i don't think on our outline we have even decided what the next episode is about.
Speaker: so i don't think we have. We haven't. So, hey, next episode, it's a mystery. Ooh.
Speaker: What will it be about? And we are going it we are going into spooky season, so that makes it an extra mystery. ah That's right.
Speaker: what What is the most bisexual Halloween costume? That's a good question. That is a good question. and now my brain's going to try to figure it out.
Speaker: What would the representation, like if you were representing yourself as bisexual during Halloween, what would you dress up as? oh Well, I mean, if if I had the physique for it, even though he is not canonically established as bi, would dress as Nightwing.
Speaker: Okay. Because he had he he does canonically have the best ass in the DC universe. All right. Very important. Yes. Although if we want to stay in the Bat family, Tim Drake, the third Robin, is canonically bi.
Speaker: okay. I did not know that. Yeah, it it caused a whole kerfuffle. A kerfuffle? Yeah. Oh, yeah. The the the fans are grognards. The fans are grognards because Tim has been around since the 90s. And they're like, u you you made him gay. No, they made him bi. They didn't do it in a way that I find satisfying because they went straight from an issue where a former supporting character showed up and...
Speaker: Asked him out and he was like, huh, you know what? I am totally not opposed to this idea. huh I wonder. And then within like one or two. And then with it, I mean, basically that's, you know, the Cliff Notes version.
Speaker: And then within like one or two issues, you Bernard is my boyfriend. And it's almost like he always has been. Oh my gosh. Okay. they ski They skipped the entire journey of self-discovery. That's how it happens in real life. It happens off off of somebody in the same sex ass asking you out. And that's how you turn by.
Speaker: and um And Superman and Lois Lane's son is also canonically bi. all right. All right. Maybe john we should do an episode. Maybe that's what our next episode should be. Bi characters in media. Who knows?
Speaker: You'll have to see, dear listener, because next week is a mystery. But to to join us then. Yes. And we will see you then. Indeed. Bye-bye.
Speaker: Bye.
