Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
"Unspoken Struggles: Breaking Mental Health Stigmas at Work"
26 Plays1 month ago
Michael Galvin shares his personal experience with mental health growing up where feelings were not talked about. This, he has found, has bled into his work life where there is fear of judgement, shame, and risk of impact on his role if he shares his struggles. We talk about whether these changes have to come from ground up or we continue to wait for leaders to change culture. Listen in and enjoy!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Podcast & Hosts
00:00:00
Speaker
That was my friend's one piece of advice to me before starting a podcast was don't forget to hit record.
00:00:12
Speaker
Welcome to Something's Brewing, the podcast where we stir up real conversations about mental health, well-being, health in general, and what it truly means to thrive in life and work. I'm Laura. I'm excited to have you, Mike, on the podcast today, but we worked together previously and kept a conversation alive just over the last year.
00:00:31
Speaker
i think going in and out of conversations around mental well-being and mental health and just health in general and how It kind of impacts who you are in the workplace, but also just in life in general. So I thank you for being here.
00:00:43
Speaker
i don't know if you have anything in a cup that's near you, but give you a space to introduce yourself and tell us what would be in your cup if you don't have one in your back.
Mike's Role at Intel SAP & Personal Insights
00:00:50
Speaker
S. Sounds good, well I do have one nearby. um No, I appreciate you inviting me on Obviously a very important topic, something that's really come to the forefront as of late in the past decade or two. It's you know becoming a little bit more.
00:01:04
Speaker
Prevalent and open things that people talk about. But again, there is you know obviously some friction in the US, not picking sides, but obviously It can be a scary topic to some people and some people are more open about it than others. But so um I work for a company called Intel SAP. We do satellite communications, a lot of it traditional media and networks. But we also do a lot with disaster recovery and helping those less fortunate get access to the Internet because, you know, traditional networks can't reach them. So we we do have sort of a inadvertent way, ah you know, of philanthropy, our way of getting people connected. We do have philanthropy initiatives as well. but
00:01:43
Speaker
So I've been here about four years and companies going through some changes were being acquired. So there's a lot of uncertainty there. But ah so, again, I appreciate you having me on and love to talk about the topic.
00:01:55
Speaker
um In my cup right now, I've got Diet Coke, which is my go-to. A little bit of coffee maybe in the morning, but Diet Coke, maybe to an extreme. I don't know. I guess I got to hold on. you know I'm trying to eat healthy and get active and try and stay active, but that's the one vice I haven't been able to let go of. But if I could, without any consequences, i would probably eat a dozen donuts a day, but that's just not.
00:02:19
Speaker
I think you and everybody else. yeah So Diet Coke is my go-to. Awesome. At least you're you're not fueling with sugar and donuts. And the nutritionist in me is just, as long as you have some water there too, yeah enjoy your diet Coke and we'll take it as it is. But I'm glad you have that next to you. i have my little, as people call my emotional support water bottle. So here
Stigma of Mental Health Across Generations
00:02:41
Speaker
we are.
00:02:41
Speaker
And I know before we started recording, you were talking about the taboo of mental wellbeing and I think wellness in general and kind of what that means to people. And I was curious as to what wellbeing really means to you.
00:02:54
Speaker
Why is it more than just like a buzzword and what connotation does it hold? Absolutely. You know, and I'll go back again. I'm a Jen. Gen Xer. i grew up in a family. My dad is a did three tours in Vietnam, combat wounded, you know, all this stuff. And when I was growing up, you just didn't talk to former soldiers and people or, you know, sailors or whoever that served in Vietnam because it was such like people, you know, were so traumatized by it.
00:03:20
Speaker
So I never brought it up with my dad. It found out years later that he didn't have any PTSD or any problems with it. And he wondered why we never asked him about it.
00:03:31
Speaker
So mental health from my upbringing and what we heard, you know, was you just don't talk about, particularly a male, about how your emotions, your sadness, your anxieties, you know, are you down, depressed, do you have PTSD.
00:03:46
Speaker
So that's sort of that that mindset that that I grew up with. And I still still think it's very prevalent with a lot of Gen Zers in the workplace, or excuse me, Gen Xers in the workplace. There's a lot of progress that's been made in being very open and honest and 988 suicide hotline and helping the the most recent combat bets with PTSD and and support there. I know the the current generation, the teens and 20-somethings talk very openly about their depression or what medications to run or how the therapists they're seeing. They're very open about it.
00:04:22
Speaker
But I still, you know, companies are getting into, you know, employee assistant programs and, you know, giving you free sessions to talk to a therapist or get medication help. And I think that's fantastic. And I think it's still something that needs to be talked about more often. I think a lot of the fear with people of my generation though, is even though it's open and h r says, you know, Hey, feel free to come to us with these issues. Feel free to reach out therapist, feel free to take a leave of absence. If you need to work on your mental health, whether it's clinical depression or true anxiety, not a situational anxiety, not to diminish one or the other.
00:05:01
Speaker
But I think people of my generation are afraid that that'll put a stigma on them. And if they come back from therapy or maybe it's an addiction rehab, they'll be welcomed back. But in the back of the minds of their bosses, some of the more senior leaders, are they thinking, Mike is a broken guy.
00:05:20
Speaker
is this going to happen again? And how is it going to impact the company? I think there'll be sort of like this eggshell type thing and, you walking on eggshells. So I think there's a lot of work that can
Human Wellness vs Employee Well-being
00:05:30
Speaker
still be done. I'm very pleased with the progress, but I just think there's just, maybe it's me, but I don't know. I just, I think there's there's probably a common concern about, am I going to be looked on as broken or are people going to fear giving me too much work to do or something because I may not be able to handle it and all have a panic attack or I'll go into a deep depression. And it's hard thing to to overcome, you know. Yeah.
00:05:55
Speaker
No, I appreciate you sharing all of that. And I definitely resonate with some of that, you know, um no matter how much I put publicly, there's still fear behind everything that I've posted and still more to come.
00:06:06
Speaker
but I think at the end of the day, i with me, what I've gone through, I've always had this pay it forward mentality. And I've heard too many people speaking about it behind the scenes where just like at Taskumen, when I'm telling people, I can't have you selling it without trying it.
00:06:22
Speaker
It's one of those, you have to kind of understand people before you're going to just offer something to people and then judge them for it, right? Sometimes people are going through stuff themselves and they're the ones that need the support and then they're telling everyone else to take it.
00:06:34
Speaker
And to be honest, it sounds unfortunate from my perspective, and I would think from yours, that there is that fear of being judged, right? That's where human wellness and employee well-being become two very different things that should not be very different. So i was wondering if you had any take on the gap between human well-being and employee well-being.
00:06:55
Speaker
And if so, how do we work to close that? that's ah That's a good question. Again, I think part of it's a generational thing. I think once you know my generation has eased out of the workforce and maybe even the subsequent generation, i think it'll be much more open. you know is a Is it ideal to wait that long? No. So I think there needs to be people that come forward, people like me that have struggled with some of these things in the past, you know, and learn the techniques, reach out for help, have a conversation, talk to people about it.
00:07:31
Speaker
But what's that platform look like? And if you expose yourself at work, again, there's that concern. If you could get a group of like 50 people in a company that have all suffered from some sort of challenge and go out there and be open about it. Maybe it would break down some of those barriers and they understand that, hey, here's 50 people, you know, and they may have had a struggle, but they're back and they're contributing, they're doing well, they're exceeding, they're excelling.
00:07:56
Speaker
It doesn't have to look like you're a broken and you can't do your job or there should be this fear that, oh my God, what if it happens again and they're out of work for a while?
Improving Work-Life Balance and Support
00:08:06
Speaker
So I think A lot of people have to kind of just plow through it and go to work when they're you know not mentally at their best and put on a front, which is exhausting. so Yeah, on the outside, it's a little bit easier because you kind of choose your own circle and people, you know, you might want to open up to work is a little bit different because, you know, I think we're ah in a, particularly in the US, a ah career minded society that a lot of people continue to identify themselves or identify their success based on where they are in their career.
00:08:45
Speaker
And I, you know, I've, spent some time really trying to separate those two. We've talked about work-life balance for decades, but really, what is that? you know I came up in sales and it's all about work-life balance. and But as a salesperson, going on vacation, make sure you have your laptop with you, we'll try not to bother you. Or it was almost like a ah badge of honor if you sent an email at 11 o'clock at night, or you worked on a Sunday and then you go into a team meeting and your sales leader's like,
00:09:16
Speaker
You know, ought to be like, you know, Mike, you know, he was sending emails at 11 o'clock at night. So here we are trying to get this work-life balance and mental well-being and, you know, separate the two you can work on yourself, whether it's meditation, whether it's walking, whether it's exercising, whether it's diet.
00:09:32
Speaker
But. Then you have these leaders talking you up and, oh, yeah, that's great. And of course, then you're like, awesome. Yeah, no, now Fortunately, i work for a European-based company now. And when they say PTO, they mean PTO. You're you're off. you They don't bother you.
00:09:46
Speaker
And they actually get get a little upset if you do respond. so Anyway, i don't know if that answers the question, but I think maybe, you know, human resources departments and things like that need to develop workshops and get people of my generation or people that have struggled in similar ways together to say, this is okay. We have all of these diversity programs at my company, which is fantastic.
00:10:14
Speaker
yeah um but there's not not one about mental health. And I think that's because there's a fear about it. So yeah, anyway, I don't have a ah clear answer about how to really bring the ability of people that are willing to talk about it out in their personal lives, bring that same shift into the workplace.
00:10:34
Speaker
But I think it needs to happen.
Barriers to Discussing Mental Health
00:10:36
Speaker
Yeah, no, I agree. And I appreciate that. I don't think there is an answer. It's just me trying to pick people's brains and understand that there is such a discrepancy and you've used the word broken a few times. I know shame is a big thing that comes along with mental well being or mental illness or mental struggle or just wellness in general.
00:10:52
Speaker
And I wonder if that impacts people's ability to speak up. Right. There's an impact that comes along with being able to speak up and say, you know, I am struggling today. Do you mind if i take a five minute a break?
00:11:03
Speaker
Right. There's some sort of guilt, shame. Those are two very different things, but something around that where the judgment and the view from other people is prevalent and honestly palpable. And it kind of harms people in the sense that they aren't advocates for themselves.
00:11:18
Speaker
Would you agree? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I know companies do like these, they they have, you know, maybe a mental health day or a mental health week. Well, I think a lot of people that don't struggle with any sort of like mental illness, you know, clinical a mental illness, anxiety, depression, whatever the case, PTSD, the others out there, they use it as a, Hey, it's a time to go party. Let's go have a good time. Let's, you know, let's go on vacation. it's,
00:11:44
Speaker
is and maybe that's what they need. I'm not faulting them for that, but I think, you know, maybe it should be more focused on the mental health day. Here's five things we've lined up for you to do. Here's maybe go take a meditation class or maybe go to the gym and and figure out ways to work out your stresses and pressures and learn a program, you know, that you can consistently do afterwards, diet or exercise, you know, those types of things. I think, um,
00:12:13
Speaker
would go a long way, but I don't think that companies put that kind of structure behind it. The employee assistance programs, again, great things, but again, it's all kept very confidential and secret, and that's a HIPAA thing, but I think it needs to be evangelized even more in you share that it's okay to open up about this. There won't be any repercussions.
00:12:36
Speaker
But again, the subconscious thing with letting some people that they're telling me it's okay, but so. Yeah. i mean, that hits on, like I said, a little shame and maybe some judgment, but the other thing you touched upon, which kind of triggered something in my mind is it sounded more like it would be ground up versus top down.
00:12:54
Speaker
So it might work with employees coming together versus waiting on an organization to design something. And I don't know if that rings a bell with you of people joining forces to create something supportive for each other that then might change the culture of an organization versus waiting for the organization at top to change the culture and then allow people to follow.
00:13:14
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good point. You know, i think it would take some brave souls
Changing Company Culture: Grassroots vs Top-Down
00:13:18
Speaker
to do that. And maybe the 20-somethings and then the up-and-coming people entering the workforce might have more of that that courage to develop a DEI type of group. I mean, we've got one that supports veterans. We've got one for people of Hispanic or Latino um nationality. We've got one that's women in telecom group. which Again, all fantastic, but there's not really one I don't think anybody's had the courage to come forward and say, do I have any people like me that want to start a DEI group on working through mental health and stresses?
00:13:53
Speaker
You know, there's obviously the situational piece too, which I think little bit more comfortable people talking to is like what we've been going through as a company. We were, you know, announcement was made that competitor was going to acquire us. This was 14 months ago. And I think there's been a fear from people, but that's, I think in some cases, more situational and people are more open to talk about it. Like, I'm worried, like, am I going to be part of the new company? You know, how can we help there? But again, that's, I kind of look at the two as a little bit different. There's situational, which is your traditional fight or flight. And then there's more of the clinical side of things where you're constantly stuck in the fight or flight or whatever. So,
00:14:33
Speaker
Yeah, I think it would take a ah brave group of souls, 10 or 12 people to come forward and create some of those workplace therapy type groups or support groups. I don't know how to begin to do that.
00:14:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's an interesting point. I mean, when I hear those things, I'm like, all right, how do we do it? Because I think that, and you know that about me, I'm just like, all right, what's the next step? Because you're taking human beings and putting them in a more stressful environment, right? So if they have already been suffering with something, myself included, where some days it's just like, I don't have it in me and you got to show up, right? You're in a performance-based culture, you're in a you know stressful situation and that's just going to exacerbate things that you already feel.
00:15:14
Speaker
So I do think, you know, with that, it's also important, obviously, outside of the workplace to have strategies that you have for yourself. So are there ways that you day in and day out can support yourself? That way, you know, that things at work might not exacerbate something you might already feel at baseline.
00:15:32
Speaker
Yeah. one One of the things that I've been, I'm certainly not an expert at this and need to get better at it is is meditation, whether it's guided or just breath work. now I've read the square technique, the four four, four, four, the seven, eight, four, whatever, I don't know, or just in and out, in and out, breathe in the positive energy out with the negative. So that's That's one thing that I try and do as much as I can. Probably went a little overboard and read books about anxiety and how how to manage it or control it. And I'm not sure that's very doable. I think it's the things we do for some people, it's getting into a routine of going for a run or going to a gym to get those those endorphins and the serotonin and all that stuff running. But
00:16:15
Speaker
For me, it's it's mostly, you know, like a a meditative type thing. It could be in the moment or it could be how I start my day or end my day or maybe midday. i'm more of a situational type person. You know, if there's a moment need to just Take a deep breath, five minutes. I pull up a guided meditation. I go through it.
00:16:33
Speaker
But there's so many ways. I mean, obviously, talk groups, therapists, psychiatrists, group therapy to share amongst yourselves, people like minded people that can talk about it. And, you know, you don't feel alone.
00:16:49
Speaker
And then maybe that type of support and work and effort that you would do on a day in and day out basis will then center yourself and your body and your mind. So when you go into work, you're able to understand or recognize a set of signals that, Hey, this is triggering something. I need to take a break.
00:17:08
Speaker
Right. ah Right. So I think, you know, maybe it's tackled this from the outside in their personal lives and how they bring that in. What do you do on a daily basis to maintain your productivity at work? You know, what do you do after hours or during the workday when you take a lunch break? and And maybe that's a way to work it and start having conversations like that.
00:17:28
Speaker
Have podcasts where people say, hey, what do you do for, you know, health and wellness outside of the the office? Right. And then opening up there and then starting to get people to open up more about how they struggle as a you know ah an employee. So that that might
Creating a Safe Environment for Mental Health Discussions
00:17:45
Speaker
be one way. But for me, it's real meditation is is the big one for me and trying to eat well.
00:17:51
Speaker
Yeah, that's something that I've worked on meditation too, working with a functional medicine doctor now. And it's the box breathing that he's always recommended, the 444 for sure. um But you did bring up a good point. I don't think we're saying that workplace needs to be like a therapy support group all the time, but there needs to be psychological safety, right? And it might be steps that start to be taken where your external things start to bleed a little bit into work. We spend so much time at work where if you're like talking to a coworker and you have five minutes of the meeting at the beginning, that's just, how are you? And you're like, oh, I went on a run this morning. I felt great after, you know, I've been struggling a little bit with stress and it really helps me. And that is just enough maybe for yourself to feel a little bit more psychologically safe, a little bit more connected to the person that you're speaking with, that it's not just on a performance or work talk. So I think those conversations might be great ways to start for sure.
00:18:42
Speaker
Have you had a day where... you haven't really been able to shift that and it's been hard to show up at work. And if so, like how did that impact you? And did you do anything to help yourself? Cause for me, I'll sit, you know, we're behind a screen all day. Nobody really knows how I'm feeling. i have to show up on calls.
00:18:58
Speaker
And that's drawing a lot of energy from yourself to be able to show up. Absolutely. I mean, I have those days. They happen, you know, particularly in the the environment I'm in right now. i have no idea I'm going to be part of this new company. And if so, where am I going to fit? And, how you know you know, that's just a discomfort. And sometimes I'm okay with it. And other days where I'm just like,
00:19:20
Speaker
obsessing about it. It's like ruminating thoughts. You know, I hate to use this term, but I just, I do do my meditations, but you can't meditate the whole day. So i plow through it.
00:19:31
Speaker
You know, I get myself occupied. I might be unmotivated because of the stress or the situational anxiety or the the anxiety in general. And just plow through it and try and be the best I can and you know, have a checklist. And once I get involved in some of those things, some of those outside concerns or, you know, any of the situational concerns might go to the side for a bit, but that doesn't mean that they're going to come running back in it's a man it's ah It's a matter of, I think, recognizing it, but I tend to just kind of plow through it, if you will. And I'm not sure that's the best thing to do. that's
00:20:04
Speaker
I think we're in good company with that, unfortunately. And then at the the end of the day, you know, you might've had a checklist of 10 things to do and you got nine of them done, but you feel like, oh, I didn't finish, you know, 10%.
00:20:19
Speaker
I talked to somebody, i don't, this was years ago, but they're like, you know, and I shared something like that. Like I had these number of things to do and felt like I only gave 90%. And they're like, well, is that the best you could do for the day?
00:20:32
Speaker
And I'm like, And they're like, OK, well, then you are successful. That's yeah you actually hit 100 percent because you were able to do what you were capable of doing. And that task is not going anywhere you tomorrow. Put it aside and come back tomorrow and tackle it.
00:20:47
Speaker
and And that's kind of the way I kind of look at things like if there's days so I'm off and I can't focus and, you know, my attention is I'm distracted. I reflect at the end of the day. That's another thing I do. I do a lot of reflection. You know, what could I have done differently? What can I do better and personally at work? Pause and reflect and and look at it and and say, did I do my best?
00:21:09
Speaker
Yeah, I did. And I'm okay with that. Good for you. And that works pretty often. So that's that's sort of how I try and do it. But yeah, plowing through it, i don't think it helps in the in the long run. Certainly helps in the short term.
00:21:20
Speaker
But and there's there's a long way to go for people like myself and others about being able to feel comfortable knowing that you know it might not be an ideal day. Yeah. But you have to accept it for what it is.
00:21:35
Speaker
and And that's how I kind of look at it. Well, kudos to you for that. All right, i have two more questions for you before we wrap up.
Reframing Mental Health Struggles in the Workplace
00:21:42
Speaker
One, what one thing you wish that the workforce understood more about mental health?
00:21:49
Speaker
That it's okay, that people that struggle with mental health are not broken people. They have a disease, if you will. Some people may argue that, is it a disease, is it not?
00:22:02
Speaker
But it's a clinically diagnosed disease and and that's okay. it doesn't mean, like I said before, that they're broken or they're going to be forever mentally crippled and they can't come back from this. It's, you know, somebody has a severe injury or has some sort of cancer or something. It doesn't mean that they're never going to be able to work again and be as effective as they were before.
00:22:26
Speaker
So I think, you know, and there's a lot of organizations doing a lot of great things, particularly with veterans and PTSD and 22 a day. And, but I think, um, I think there needs to be a lot more education about what some of these mental illnesses are and that people that struggle with them aren't defective.
00:22:49
Speaker
agree. i agree. I appreciate that. I actually think it could be a strength for a lot of people if you could see it that way. um yeah So I think that that's a whole and nother conversation. but my last question is, what are you going to do for yourself today that enhances your well-being or your mental well-being?
00:23:06
Speaker
What's one thing I'm going to do? Obviously, I'll do some some meditation reflection, you know, just joining you on this podcast and the appreciation I have and the gratitude for for you inviting me in and and opening up on a ah topic that, you know, needs to be talked about more where, again, I'm going to do my best to not worry about where I'm going to fit in a new organization.
00:23:28
Speaker
Easier said than done. but i'm gonna yeah But I'm going to read something positive, positive affirmations or something like that, you know, and do my best to just be ah kind person when I'm outside of your work. I think there's a lot of that that needs to go around and I do my best to try and share a little bit of kind of kindness. You know, I think the world could use a lot more of please and thank you and hello and how are you? I think that our society is really getting away from that. So try and bring some joy or positivity to somebody else's life. And those are things I try and practice. Or when somebody, something frustrates me, just pause and take a deep breath. But yeah, today is going to be meditation. a little too warm here to get out for a walk, maybe this evening, but just try and
00:24:16
Speaker
Live for today and not let things from the past cause me worry about things I can't control in the future. Stay in the present. And that's really, that's something I've been working on. Stay in in the day.
00:24:30
Speaker
well lifelong journey, huh? Yes, it is.
Conclusion & Future Optimism
00:24:34
Speaker
Well, Mike, I thank you so much for your time with me today and sharing everything that you've shared, thoughts, personal stuff, ideas for the future. And I hope maybe we can have another session at some point soon, but for now continue with your diet Coke, continue with your meditation and keep things that keep you feeling good. But thank you again for showing up for me today.
00:24:54
Speaker
Yeah, you're welcome. Greatly appreciate much gratitude for for asking me to be a part of this and, you know, keep in touch and see what we can do. Um, you know, a little bit down the road, but good stuff, really good stuff. So thank you very much.
00:25:06
Speaker
Absolutely. Thank you.