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Episode 351: We'd like to start winning again, thanks
60 Plays3 years ago
Since last we met -- all of two weeks ago -- the Sounders' season has taken a rather frustrating turn. They are now winless and scoreless in three straight and suddenly the playoffs don't seem quite as assured as they once were. We're pretty sure the difference mostly comes down to health but that is not itself a complete answer. We give our thoughts.
This week's music: Perry Como - "Seattle", "RVIVR - "Ocean Song", Woody Guthrie - "Roll On Columbia", "Your Journey Begins" - OurMusicBox (Jay Man) (CC BY 4.0)
Thanks to James Woollard, Sounders Public Address Announcer, for doing our sponsor reads. You can follow him on Twitter at @BritVoxUS - if you’re looking for a British Voice to advertise your business or non-profit, please reach out to him.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsorship
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of No Sadietes is sponsored by Full Pool Wines, a Seattle-based wine seller who recently released their first book, 36 Bottles of Wine. The ethos of the book, a highly curated look at wine categories that provide exceptional value right now, should be familiar to full pool readers. But there's loads of fresh content, and since it's not trying to sell any wine through the book, there's a bit more of a sass factor.
00:00:21
Speaker
And there's food. Lots of it. Fullpool's unique writing styles applied to recipes like leftover Thanksgiving, turkey, schmaltz-a-ball soup, and pregnancy nachos. This book can be purchased through Sasquatch Books.
Seattle Sounders Introduction and MLS Cup Celebration
00:00:32
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. Come on! Hey, Ocean! Let's go! I want to say bye-bye! The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS Cup win!
00:00:52
Speaker
important the KSA's genius. Here comes Rui Diaz through the middle to crowd it for Seattle. They have climbed the mountain and now are masters of all that they survey. Michael Odero leaves absolutely no doubt the Saldars rule the region. Seattle Saldars is convinced
00:01:18
Speaker
Seattle Sounders, the greatest MLS team in history.
Current Challenges and Losing Streak
00:01:24
Speaker
How does this one feel? This feels fucking awesome. The bluest skies you've ever seen are in Seattle. And the hills the greenest green in Seattle.
00:01:53
Speaker
I didn't know what it was. Is that what you young people call twerking?
00:02:20
Speaker
Things are not good in the world of the sounders. Sounders are coming off a, are in the middle of a three game losing streak, not in the middle. They are currently on a three game losing streak. They have lost four or five. And, you know, the playoff situation is not dire by any stretch, but they are sitting 10th in the table. When what's crazy is like two weeks ago, the last time we recorded, we were talking about how great everything was two weeks ago.
00:02:25
Speaker
I have no idea.
00:02:51
Speaker
Yeah, that's the bummer about this part of the season. And I feel like it's a little bit of a theme where things can go real bad real fast, because there's so many games in such a short period of time. And when things are going bad and you don't have a lot of recovery time, don't have time for people to get healthy, which is frequently the culprit when things go bad, things can stack up pretty quickly. So yeah, it's not great. I mean, I remember
00:03:17
Speaker
You know, we last recorded before the Portland game, and I think we were pretty, maybe not consensus, considering the third fellow that was in the room there with us, but I think you and I both felt pretty good about the sound of chances against the tempers and thought that maybe this was gonna be when that weird streak of- Yeah, I felt great about that game. Yeah, and ooh, it went real bad. And I think the loss to Nashville is
00:03:46
Speaker
In a vacuum, not a terrible loss. I mean, that's a, that's a pretty good team playing on the road. Um, midweek after, uh, you know, a tough loss, um, doesn't feel great. I think if you beat Portland, lose that game, not a big deal, but to play as poorly as they did in the second half against Portland and the first half against Nashville, I think was, was pretty deflating. And then the Chicago game, I mean, that's just.
00:04:10
Speaker
an inexcusable game to lose. I don't care how little rest you're on. I don't care where you're playing. You can't lose to that team. And so yeah, it doesn't feel great right
Impact of Injuries
00:04:21
Speaker
now. The Sounders have lost to some pretty bad teams this year, which is definitely frustrating. I started to run the numbers on the teams that have beat the Sounders this year. How many teams currently in playoff positions? And I stopped because I got distracted.
00:04:39
Speaker
But I feel like it's not great. I feel like it's been kind of the opposite of what you would expect. Maybe not the opposite of what you would expect, but probably not exactly what you would expect. They've lost to Portland, Miami. Yeah. Yeah, Portland, Miami, San Jose. San Jose, Chicago. They've lost to Nashville twice, who I don't think is a particularly good team.
00:05:04
Speaker
Yeah, they've lost a lot of games where I think at the very least, you know, I was saying this to someone today, you know, you look at the schedule at the beginning of the season, you probably circle San Jose away. You probably circle Chicago away as, you know, maybe your two most winnable road games you'll play all year.
00:05:26
Speaker
And to lose both of those games is pretty frustrating. You know, they've got some wins that I don't think you would have necessarily expected as well. Like they beat Minnesota on the road. They beat Houston on the road, which is oftentimes a tough game, especially with Houston being pretty good. So it's like there's some balancing
00:05:48
Speaker
that's out there. Toronto is bad this year, but at the beginning of the year, I think you would have said, oh, you're going to beat Toronto on the road? That's definitely one you don't expect to get. So you have a few of these games, but it's been a really weird year. And I don't have an easy explanation for it, but one thing I do sort of reject out of hand is there's a lot of discussion I think this week about maybe the sounders are bad, and I don't
00:06:18
Speaker
I'm a little thrown by that idea. I suppose you can talk yourself into believing that they fluked into the CONCACAF Champions League, I guess. They had to go through a pretty tough road to get there, but I don't know, maybe you can convince yourself of it.
00:06:37
Speaker
I mean, it's not like they've been abjectly horrible all year. I mean, it was only a few weeks ago that they tied LAFC, who's leading the supporters field right now, and frankly, probably deserved a better result in that game.
00:06:52
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I, I think that, um, not only would the Sounders have had to fluke their way into the CONCACAF Champions League title, they also would have had to fluke their way into playing better than any team in the league for what, like a month and a half. Yeah. Until they got hit by a bunch of injuries all at once. Right.
00:07:12
Speaker
It's, I think you said, uh, today, you know, it's not the sexiest explanation, but it's, I mean, you know, awkward razor, right? Like it's.
00:07:23
Speaker
you can maybe criticize the depth in some places. You can maybe criticize the formations that are being trotted out or the tactical approach or what have you. And maybe the sounders have played worse than you would expect them to, given their absences. But at the end of the day, when they were closer to full strength, they were playing like one of the best scenes in the league. When they were
00:07:47
Speaker
at totally at full strength when they still have Joe Apollo, they were playing like the best team on the continent. And now they're missing Joe Apollo, they're missing Roy Diaz, they're missing Obed Vargas, they've got assorted other injuries, they've got guys playing at
00:08:03
Speaker
I think fair to say far less than full strength. They've missed other various guys for various chunks of time over the year. And that's not to say that they are immune from criticism in terms of maybe they depend too much on players that get injured a little more often than people would like or what have you. But I do think it's the most reasonable explanation for the struggles that we're currently seeing.
Strategies for Recovery and Playoff Hopes
00:08:27
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think, so I did run the numbers a little bit on the sounder's record with various variables accounted for. And I should say that this was, I was prompted to look at this by a reader or a listener, I should say, who asked,
00:08:49
Speaker
who pointed out that you go back to last October. This is Kenny Sloth, 253. They pointed out that since last October, the Sounders are 12, 9, and 14 and been outscored 34 to 31 in MLS play.
00:09:04
Speaker
And it's a fair question. They want to know, like, what's really changed. And frankly, what's changed is they got a bunch of injuries. That was when, you know, Raul Ruy Diaz first went down, was at the start of where, you know, they measure this out. Sounders are eight, three, and four when Ruy Diaz plays at least 45 minutes. The problem is that he's missed, like,
00:09:29
Speaker
more than half the game since then. And if he's out, that creates some problems. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. The Sounders are a better team when Raul Rui Diaz is on the field. I don't think that's really breaking any news, but it's pretty obvious.
00:09:49
Speaker
how much different of a team they are when he doesn't play. And then you can kind of take it a step further and the Sounders, when they get all three of their designated players on the field this year, the Sounders are
00:10:06
Speaker
basically claiming 1.85 points per game. That's, you know, supporters shield contender numbers. When they have one or fewer DPs on the field, it's 1.25. That's outside the playoffs.
00:10:22
Speaker
Similarly, if they get eight or nine of their first choice players starting a game, they're at like 1.8 points per game. If they can get 10, and so that's even accounting for Jiao Pao not playing, that goes all the way up to 2.08. But then if they have like six or fewer, then it drops way down to closer to, I think it's like 1.1. So my point being is a lot of their,
00:10:51
Speaker
their up and down nature is easily attributable to their health. Now, that's not an excuse right now. They still got to figure this out, but I do think it speaks to the reality that you're really only as good as your best players.
00:11:13
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think that if that's the issue, right? If the issue is like the sounders are not coping well with injuries, then the discussion moves on from what's the problem to how do you fix it, right? And that to me is a much more interesting discussion than stressing out about what actually the problem is. And I think unfortunately the answer is why you get healthy, right? Like that's the way you really fix it. What you don't do,
00:11:43
Speaker
as far as I'm concerned, is you don't panic and make compromised signings in the transfer window. You don't try to reshuffle all the deck chairs and blow up your system or blow up your philosophies. You can maybe ship things around here or there to try to get limp through until you're back to full strength. But I don't think you blow anything up, right? Because you know that when your team
00:12:09
Speaker
is capable of playing the way it was built to play they're one of the best teams in the league and so it's not super satisfying again to say like this is what the cause of the issues is but I feel like we've had this discussion quite frequently on the show over the years and I feel like we've typically come to the same conclusions and I feel like
00:12:31
Speaker
you know, not to toot around horn, but I feel like we've been largely vindicated in that where there are situations like this, where it's like, hey, the sounders have got a bunch of injuries and they should probably try to just, you know, get the points they can get until they're back to full strength and maybe make some supplemental signings if the opportunities arise, but don't panic and just try to, you know,
00:12:56
Speaker
steer the ship away from the rocks and tell the captains back on board, then things are probably going to be okay. And I think that's probably the case here. I mean, like you said, when you look at just the placement in the table, the sounders are our ninth right now. That's not great. They're out of the playoffs, but they are
00:13:13
Speaker
what, one point behind the galaxy? Yeah, I think, but yeah, that's, yeah. They're one point. Yeah. With a game in hand. With a game in hand. Well, they don't have a game in hand on the galaxy, but they have a game in hand on most other teams. Pretty much every team ahead of them, except for LAFC, who I feel pretty confident in saying they're not going to catch. Right. No, that's, you're right. You know, so they've got, they've got 14 games left, plenty of time.
00:13:40
Speaker
This is, the sounders have been in much worse positions much later in the year than this, I would say. And I still think ultimately we said, you know, when we were in the thick of the CCL run,
00:13:58
Speaker
If you have to sacrifice the MLS season to win this trophy, you do it every time. And it's easier to say that when you're in the middle of the CCL run than when it's August and you're outside of the playoff race. But I still think we're going to have her. I still believe that we're going to be able to have her at cake and eat it. But you're right. I do think this was the gamble, right? You eliminated some of your room for error.
00:14:25
Speaker
And the Sounders could probably have six to eight more points if they had not sacrificed those points earlier in the season. And those six to eight points are really the difference between them being comfortably in the playoffs and them struggling to get into the playoffs right now.
00:14:42
Speaker
I've kind of joked that I've seen this movie before. You sort of alluded to that as well. And it was pointed out to me that back in 2019, the Sounders were in a pretty similar situation. Now, granted, it was a little earlier in the year. And so it's not really a perfect comparison. But they did go through a run in 2019 where they had lost four or five games. They'd only won one of six. And at the time, they were doing that on the back of a little bit better of a start.
00:15:12
Speaker
they were they were fading and it looked like maybe this was the end of the road. They ended up getting a surprising win where they had to score two late goals to beat Columbus in Columbus and I believe the last goal was a Nico Lidero header if that helps bring you back to that moment and
00:15:33
Speaker
They ended up going on a run at the end of that year in which they, of course, ended up winning MLS Cup. And I bring this up mainly to illustrate that dramatic turnarounds often happen with this team. And I don't think they made any big acquisitions that summer transfer window. I want to say Emmanuel Saccini was their biggest
00:16:00
Speaker
summer transfer signing and he was not particularly useful. But yeah, they ended up winning MLS Cup that year, despite that very poor run of form around the same point in the season. That fourth loss, by the way, came in game 18. So we were a little bit ahead of pace where we are now. But point being, these kinds of things happen. This team oftentimes finds a way to
00:16:31
Speaker
put themselves back together, I don't see anything this year that makes me think that it's fundamentally different. I think also worth mentioning that year where they had that bad run, they were in really bad shape, slightly better shape than they are now, they ended up finishing eight points clear in the playoffs.
00:16:50
Speaker
It's not like they scrapped their way in that year. And they finished second in the West also. Right. Yeah. So I think, and I still have a great deal of faith to sounders. You're going to get this figured out, get healthy and make the playoffs.
00:17:03
Speaker
And, you know, I just, I have faith in that because I've seen it happen so many times. And that's the thing, like this team has just kind of earned the, they've earned the benefit of the doubt where, where things like this are concerned. And I think generally people are giving it to them. Um, but I think people are rightfully concerned, like this is where you want to be going into this, this phase of the season. And they've got to start getting it turned around. Right. They can't just keep.
Crucial Matches and Strategies
00:17:27
Speaker
relying on the idea that there's a lot of season left because there is increasingly less and less season left. They've got 14 games. And there does seem to be a sense of urgency. I was out of training today. Albert Rusnak was talking about how they know that this is bad.
00:17:44
Speaker
Losing three games in a row is not, I think the Sounders have ever thought is an acceptable blip. It happens. This is certainly not the first time, but like you got to be Colorado at home. There's no if, ands, ands, or buts. Like if this season is going to be turned around, it's got to start on Saturday against Colorado. I mean, that's a very winnable game. They will be reasonably healthy. They're not going to be 100% healthy, but
00:18:07
Speaker
you know, they've got the players they need to beat Colorado at home, a Colorado team who has not been particularly good this year. It's been a disappointing season for Colorado. And yeah, I mean, I will say that we don't, you know, I think we've established that Rui Diaz's health and the larger picture, the health is really, was that a...
00:18:31
Speaker
What is flying around around you? I think it's a mosquito. OK, OK. We're going to if you hear if the audio picks up any slapping noises, that's that's what you're hearing there. But I do think.
00:18:44
Speaker
Like you said, we've established health is the main issue, but they got to figure things out in the meantime. And I think I've come around on a few things and I'm curious how you feel about this. One of them is, I think Freddie Monteiro and Will Bruin are perfectly suitable backup forwards. I think if you need them for one game or two games,
00:19:08
Speaker
You've, you figure it out, you make it work. Uh, I think they are both reasonably good as late game subs, but if you're telling me that you have to plan for MLS cup with, uh, Outlaw Roy ideas, I don't think I want one of them to starting, but I do think the possibility that Jordan Morris could be that player and beyond that.
00:19:32
Speaker
By putting Jordan Morris up top, you can bring Leo Chu into the starting lineup, who I still think has a lot of promise. And to me, that is at least a, we don't know what we're going to get out of that, but I do think that it presents at least a more dynamic attacking option.
00:19:51
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's that's for sure true. And I think Freddie is almost at the point where I think he's if you're if he's subbing in for one of your missing DPs, I think he's almost more effective subbing in for Lidero. I think as a especially as a loan forward in the system, he's
00:20:08
Speaker
he's serviceable for sure in short bursts, but I think you're definitely right that Morris is the guy I want to see up top until Rudy Diaz is back. And I think it's easy to forget because Jordan has been so so good as a winger for
00:20:26
Speaker
you know, quite a few seasons now, but he'd been so good as an out and out striker that, you know, there was concerns that it was limiting his potential, that I was trying to mess around with a good thing when he got moved out wide. And he's just, you know, he's really made that position his own and grown as a player.
00:20:43
Speaker
And there's always a risk when you change somebody's position and then move them back. I think knew who was a great example, where he was, I think, an above average left back for quite a few years, got moved to center back and is having a lot of trouble adjusting, moving back to left back. So there's always that risk that that's just not going to be the same player that they were when they switched positions. But I mean, Jordan has also played as a nine, you know,
00:21:08
Speaker
And I think his tendencies right now are to play, frankly, more as a forward than the way he's he's not like before his injury. I think he had kind of evolved into a real winger. And I feel like since the injury, some of those winger
00:21:25
Speaker
characteristics have not been as strong. He's not as likely to take guys on one on one off the dribble. He's not as likely to, you know, look for crosses. He's still doing an okay job at creating high leverage chances. He's still showing a lot of promise in terms of like getting in behind, but those are things that he can do as a forward. Yeah, absolutely. And I think
00:21:48
Speaker
I definitely think that if you're going to make significant changes to the way the team plays, that's the road to go down is to say, you know, we're going to we're going to depend on our national team player who used to be the starting number nine for this team to get us through this rough patch and, you know, Bruin and Montero are going to go back to being impact subs or, you know, whatever, whatever the case may be. I think that if you're going to try to
00:22:18
Speaker
switch up the formation significantly in any way to better suit Montero and Bruin, you're doing it the wrong way. If you're going to make drastic changes to anything, you want to do it to better suit your best players, not to better suit the guys who are having to play because of injury or what have you, who ordinarily wouldn't be starting for you. And I'm with you on two. I think people have
00:22:46
Speaker
very passionate opinions about his performances in both directions. They do. But I think he's been solid to good most of the time that he's played. He has some really frustrating tendencies, but in general, I think the promise is clear. I think that he's somebody who seems like he could benefit from some more extended playing time. And he's just he's different to what the sounders have typically been able to run out there. And I think that
00:23:12
Speaker
right now when nothing is working that you're doing in the attacking phase, different is good. And, you know, I think, and I think that Morris and Choo on the field at the same time gives you some, some really different options than what you have most of the time.
00:23:28
Speaker
So the other thing I'd like to propose as a potential solution is we can accept that the Sounders have a big hole to fill with Jaup Hollow out. That hole got bigger when Obed Vargas is out. We don't know when Obed Vargas is coming back. He might not come back this year. I think he will, but I think we need to start planning for a season without Obed Vargas.
00:23:53
Speaker
From what I've seen, their best option right now is Danny Leyva. And if you're looking for a bright spot to come out of that road trip to Nashville and Chicago, I'd be hard pressed to find a brighter spot than the play of Danny Leyva. The sounders improved dramatically when he came on around the 57th minute against Nashville.
00:24:15
Speaker
He wasn't perfect against Chicago in his start, but I thought he showed a lot of things that are helpful. Like he was active defensively. He was willing to sit much more, which allowed Rusnak more ability to get forward. And he's got good passing range. He's not a perfect player, but I think there's real upside there.
00:24:37
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think, I think that people have gotten kind of focused and I think understandably on, on the loss of Joe Apollo as an explanation for the team struggles. I mean, he was MVP candidate last year. I think we, we call them the most important player on the team at, at, you know, various points over the last couple of years. He's a great player, big loss, but the founders were playing better than anyone in MLS without him for, for a while until a bed Vargas got hurt.
00:25:03
Speaker
And I think that the options that they've had since that injury, Leyva has definitely performed the best. And I think that's largely explained by the fact that he's not a true stopper, defensive midfielder. I don't think he's quite the caliber of Vargas or obviously of JP. But he can play that position the way the Sounders need somebody to play that position to facilitate the kind of style that they want to play.
00:25:33
Speaker
I think if he starts against Nashville, there's a pretty good chance they don't lose that game. I think that, you know, defensively. Or at least get a goal. Yeah. Yeah. And I think against Chicago, you know, obviously he was on the pitch when the goal was scored, but
00:25:49
Speaker
that was a once a season kind of breakdown defensively that you know I don't think you could pin on him in any way and they didn't really do a whole lot aside from that so I think that's got to be his spot from here on out, I'm hoping, I'm really hoping that that's his spot from here on out because I've been really impressed. I know that a lot of the, the, you know, youth national team guys have been really impressed with his play this year.
00:26:14
Speaker
I don't always think those guys are living on the same planet as I do. But I think if they're praising an MLS youngster, that he's probably played pretty well. So yeah, I think he's definitely earned quite a bit more playing time. And I mean, I think Brian Spencer said pretty much that explicitly that he's definitely played himself into consideration, which is good. I think that
00:26:37
Speaker
You know, if the team's struggling and you come in and you give them something they haven't gotten as a young player who's being asked to step up and you step up, like that has to be rewarded for sure.
00:26:46
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I guess the other big question that people have right now is what to do about NuHoo. And I'm a little bit more agnostic about it. I don't think NuHoo is the problem. I don't think that's the... He's not adding enough going forward. I think the sounders need to get back into his head that his game is not pulling up from...
00:27:16
Speaker
He had a shot this last week, his last game, where he pulled up from like 25 yards out and hit it with his right foot, which is his off foot if you don't know that. And it's like, what are you doing, dude? Somehow he got into his head. He needs to score. He does not need to score. No, he doesn't. It would be great if he did. I think everybody would be very happy. Sure. Like the reason that YooHoo's scoring became this funny meme that everybody was obsessed with was that it's so unnecessary.
00:27:45
Speaker
Like it was like Leo every time Leo Gonzalez scored a goal. It was wonderful because it just there was no reason for it to happen, but it did. And that was nice. It was a nice surprise. That's not that's not what his role is. And no, I think I'm I definitely think that you're right that he's not the problem. I think I might think he's a bigger problem than you do.
00:28:11
Speaker
But I think that when you are struggling as badly as the sounders are struggling, whoever is doing the stuff that annoys you the most is probably going to become the focus fire.
00:28:22
Speaker
And, and I think, I mean, I don't think my new who supporter bonafides are really in question. I've, I've defended him quite a bit in the early days, but he's gotten worse. Like he's gotten worse this season. We talked about this a lot, so we don't need to fully rehash that, but I just, I feel like he started playing as a left back the way you'll see center backs play when they join the attack. Mm-hmm.
00:28:48
Speaker
And the two are different, like you're doing different things when you're doing those things. For one, center backs only make those big marauding runs forward once or twice a game unless they're set up to play as a striker.
00:29:00
Speaker
For two, he's playing left back, not center back. And so fundamentally what you're being asked to do is different. This telegraphing passes, I feel like once a game at least leads to a break for the opposition. He's not even seemingly trying to get into dangerous areas. Like when he was early on in his career as a left back, he wasn't especially dangerous when he got into dangerous areas, but he was doing the things that the system wanted him to do, asked him to do.
00:29:30
Speaker
And now he's not doing those things. He's not. And it's extremely frustrating to watch because I want him to succeed. I want him to be this great player.
00:29:39
Speaker
Um, but it's just not happening right now. Yeah. I, I, I, and I understand the temptation to, you know, switch to some sort of three-back system because I does seem to corral him in a way that is useful. Like it, it's like somehow playing as a third center back gets into his, his brain that he should not make the same sort of marauding run. And that's not his role. And when he does make them, it's usually more useful. Uh,
00:30:10
Speaker
But and I suppose you could put Jimmy Madranda or Kellen Rowe at left wing back in that scenario. But I don't know that that makes the sounders more dangerous on the whole like it. And I don't know that it makes them like it's a way to solve the new who problem, I suppose, but I don't think it makes the sounders better. Yeah, I'm not sure it does either. I mean, I think that it's entirely possible that
00:30:35
Speaker
do who is a player that is at a pretty pivotal point in his career who knows that he's
00:30:41
Speaker
Under pressure, the team's playing poorly. I think he knows he's not playing up to the standards that people have for him. I think he knows that if he goes to the World Cup, performs well, he's probably going to get a pretty big move afterwards. I think there's a lot of pressure on him. I think it looks like he, at times, definitely looks like a player that's in his own head that's being a little more conservative than he should be in some situations and a lot more aggressive than he should be in some situations.
00:31:09
Speaker
And I think you could just use a break. And, you know, it's not like the sounders are bereft of options at left back. Medrenda is good there, Ro is good there. And I don't think it's like a, you know, you've got to win your spot back kind of break your bench, but just like a couple games off to, you know.
00:31:32
Speaker
take some of the pressure off, I think could potentially be good for him because we know he can be a good left back in MLS. Like we've seen it. It's just not happening right now and it's causing bigger problems. And I think especially when you're struggling to score and create chances that you can't have a player that's causing so many problems in the attack on the pitch, taking up that space. Yeah.
Garth Lagerwey's Future
00:31:59
Speaker
Yeah, well, that's probably a good place to end this segment. Shout out to Interpersonal for getting us started on that sort of formation change idea too. But we have a bunch more questions from you guys. And I do want to talk a little bit about the
00:32:18
Speaker
idea, there's no rumors or anything like that, but just the idea of Garth log away, potentially going to Atlanta United and taking the job of president that was just vacated by Darren Eels. But we'll talk about that after the break, answer a bunch of your questions. You're listening to no Saudi at this.
00:32:42
Speaker
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00:33:01
Speaker
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00:33:21
Speaker
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00:33:43
Speaker
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00:34:00
Speaker
We'll go back to no idea at this. So before we get questions, I was hoping someone would submit this as a question so that we could use that. That's a little bit of the sausage getting made, but no one did. But it's been a topic of conversation enough out in the world that I think it's worth at least broaching here. And that's the possibility that
00:34:23
Speaker
Garth Longaway might be interested in taking the Atlanta United president job. As you may or may not know, Darren Eales came to Atlanta back in 2015 with high, high hopes and
00:34:39
Speaker
you know, get it out of the park, frankly. He turned them into a real juggernaut off the field, helped turn them into, at times, a very good team on the field. They haven't been quite as good lately. But he's leaving to Newcastle United. Pretty, pretty big promotion, I'd say.
00:35:00
Speaker
team that's going to spend a bunch of money in the Premier League, but it's opened up this possibility. And I think most people, most MLS observers, they look around the league, who's successful and who might be interested in this job. And it's not a job that's definitely tailor-made for Garth. It's definitely less of a soccer job and a little bit more of a
00:35:23
Speaker
of a front office, like a broad, like overseeing the entire organization. But Garth has expressed some interest in doing something like that. I would think that his skill set sets up very nicely for it. But the question, and I think it's pretty obvious that Atlanta United is at least going to want to talk to him. But the big point of debate, I think, is
00:35:48
Speaker
would Garth want this job? And I don't know. I have no idea. But I just think it's crazy to think that he wouldn't at least be interested. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things where ultimately it's unknowable because maybe Garth doesn't have any interest in having a job where he's not
00:36:11
Speaker
guy responsible for building the roster. Maybe he does have interest in doing something like that, but he thinks there's a chance he could do it here someday. Maybe he wants to do it somewhere else, but he knows Atlanta has potential to be kind of a cluster. Who knows? But I think you're right that, and my knee-jerk reaction was definitely to say like,
00:36:35
Speaker
What, what could Atlanta really offer him that Seattle can't. Right. And, and there are, I mean, there are some things, right? Like it's a different job. So if he wants to do that, if he wants to run the whole thing, Seattle can offer him that at least right away, probably. Um, it's.
00:36:52
Speaker
They have more resources, they have more money. I am highly skeptical to the idea, despite what a couple of Atlanta fans insist to me, that Atlanta could and would be willing to completely obliterate what the Sounders could pay Garth.
00:37:09
Speaker
Yeah, I don't buy that. I think the Sounders have plenty of resources and they don't have a business model that allows them to spend, you know, $20 million every transfer window, but they can afford to pay.
00:37:25
Speaker
Somebody like one executive like I it's wouldn't it all be surprising to me for the Sounders to for Garth to be the highest paid person in the organization and that's Compared to players or like I don't I don't know ways paid but it wouldn't strike me as completely Crazy for the Sounders to be like, oh no, he's he's the most important person in the organization. We pay him more than anyone else I don't think that's the gonna be the case in Atlanta, right and you know, even if they can't even if like
00:37:54
Speaker
Atlanta functionally unlimited money. I don't buy that for the record, but even if it's true, they're not total idiots. They're not going to say, we're willing to spend whatever we can to get Garth log away. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Garth. I think he's better at what he does than anybody that has ever done it in MLS.
00:38:18
Speaker
paying him $15 million a year probably isn't the best use of resources. If he gets it, God bless him. I hope he remembers that I've always been nice to him, even when, you know, others who understand weren't. So, but yeah, so I just, it's not going to come down to material most likely or salary, but you know, maybe he, maybe he feels like with the resources he'd have to spend in Atlanta, he can
00:38:44
Speaker
put together a team that literally never doesn't win an MLS cup, you know, that could dominate the league. Yeah. I mean, I guess where I come down is, is like, cause a lot of people have said things like, well, what else does he have to accomplish in Atlanta? And I think it's important to keep in mind that like MLS is a growing league. Like it's always going to be, there's always going to be new challenges and you don't necessarily have to leave, leave the league to like, he's already won champions league here. What's he going to prove by doing it in Atlanta? It's like, well, that's,
00:39:14
Speaker
doing it again like doing it with a different team like those are like highly competitive people that's what gets them going and sure like maybe he wants to do the job with u.s soccer and he's willing to just stay with the sounders until that happens i think there's a lot of compelling reasons for him to stay in seattle uh not the least of which is that he's got a young family and he might not want to take him out of school but
00:39:37
Speaker
We're coming up on a really exciting time in Seattle. We've got the training facility opening in 2024. I have to imagine he loves the idea of potentially working there. We've got the World Cup in 2026. Granted, he will have that in Atlanta as well. But I have to imagine he likes that. I know he loves the lifestyle here. I know he likes the organization, but he's also been here
00:39:59
Speaker
a pretty long time, and I could see him just getting itchy. So who knows? I guess more my point isn't that I think he's going to take the job in Atlanta. It's just that I think we're fooling ourselves if we don't think there are things that are attractive about it, aside from, well, they'd be willing to pay him more money than anyone else. Yeah, I think that it's kind of the same way how
00:40:23
Speaker
people in this area, if you say, I kind of like to live somewhere else for a while, they treat you like you're completely insane. It's kind of that same reaction of like, well, different places offer different things to people, different jobs offer different things to people. Atlanta is definitely a place I can't see myself ever wanting to live over Seattle, but you know, I'm also
00:40:46
Speaker
not getting paid a crazy amount of money to run a soccer team. Until the man himself confirms or denies, it's impossible to know. But I think that you're definitely right. And like I said, my initial reaction was to say,
00:41:05
Speaker
There can't be anything to that. Why would he ever leave the sounders? But I think you're right that there are legitimate reasons to leave.
Sounders' Resilience and Future Outlook
00:41:12
Speaker
But I do, I think the reasons to stay, I'm hoping outweigh those. Yeah, so am I. I mean, I'm definitely very interested in him sticking around. And on that note, why don't we get to some of these questions? Sounds great. So the first one is from Mati Dubb. We're not panicking yet, right?
00:41:35
Speaker
I mean, I don't know, I'm not. And I frankly, I always, I think this question is asked in jest, just like it is like literally every time we get it on the show, but I do think it's worth.
00:41:47
Speaker
saying it again like good organizations don't panic ever like that should not be part of the dna of a good organization you make bad decisions when you panic uh the sounder should not go out and just sign someone even if it doesn't fit into their long-term plans like that's not a good idea uh like i i assume they're gonna try to sign someone which we have a question about this so i won't blow it but like
00:42:14
Speaker
And I guess that's the other thing. I don't always know what panic implies. Like, what's a panic, like firing Schmetzer? That would be really dumb. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, and I have actually seen some people suggest that. Yes, I have to. And you're always going to, right? Like people were suggesting they fire him after the first and last cup, because it was never going to get better than that. I mean, it's just like, there's always going to be some guy.
00:42:41
Speaker
It's, I think ultimately this team has never really given me a reason not to think that they'll
00:42:51
Speaker
come out of, okay. It's in their DNA to figure this stuff out. And one of these days, they will miss the playoffs. And I know we kind of talked about this in the first segment, but if the year they miss the playoffs is the year they won the CCL, I can live with that. As long as it isn't like the start of a total slide down the mountain, I can live with it.
00:43:17
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Well, this one, I think it's good thing. This is for you because I feel like this is right up your alley. Uh, this is from J S S F C. In my opinion, the season has been several mini seasons. Would it benefit them to think of the three losses at the end of the CCL win year and the beginning of the MLS season? Could they actually win cup this year? Also, how good do you feel about Leyva continuing to start? Well, I guess I could have, we already talked about the Leyva part, but what do you, what does it help to look at this season as actually a bunch of mini seasons?
00:43:45
Speaker
Um, I mean, I think in a normal season, no, but I think in this season, it kind of makes sense. And I think that until CCO was over, I don't think anybody really cared that much about MLS, except for like the, the select segment of, of weirdos that didn't care about CCL at all. Um, and, and so I do think like CCO was the focus of that.
00:44:14
Speaker
And then there was kind of the hangover period, which hopefully is ending now. I definitely think they could win an MLS Cup. I don't think they're anything close to favorites right now, which, you know, that's the first time that hasn't been true in a couple of years since 2020.
00:44:36
Speaker
15 maybe that they haven't been like in the conversation is like one of the favorites, but there have certainly been years where at this point in the season, they weren't in that conversation. Right. So I think, and as recently as two weeks ago, I think we would have said that they were among the favorites to win. I mean, we were talking about this in for sure.
00:44:55
Speaker
Like we were looking at the odds and they were like, they were like giving 16 to one odds for the Sounders to win MLS Cup. We're like, I don't know they're going to win, but those are great odds. Um, they seem more reasonable right now. For sure. For sure. I think, I think that if the Sounders can get it together, finish off the season reasonably strongly enough that they're not in a huge hole going into the playoffs.
00:45:18
Speaker
Uh, and obviously the state qualified for the playoffs. That's definitely a, you know, when, you know, last cup is contingent on that.
Injury Management and Team Dynamics
00:45:26
Speaker
And they're reasonably healthy. Yeah, I think that they have a great shot. I think LAFC has more talent. I think NYACFC arguably, I don't know if they have more talent, but I think that you could argue that they are a better team and they'd be favored. But I can't think of anybody else that I wouldn't feel pretty great about a full-strength Sounders going up against full-strength minus JP, obviously.
00:45:51
Speaker
Yeah, but I mean, uh, yeah, right. Yeah. If they can get roll really ideas back healthy and firing, if they can get Morris to consistently search scoring again, if they can get Christian back to his form, like a lot of ifs, right. But like the talents there, the talent center. Absolutely.
00:46:09
Speaker
So the next one is from Bill Jones TRPT. We've looked slow and predictable in the midfield to me. If you agree, is that a product of fatigue, missing Obed slash to JP or tactics? I would agree. And I think it's a little bit all the above. I think that the absence of Obed and JP have definitely played a part in it. But I also think tactically,
00:46:36
Speaker
I didn't really love the look of Lidero Rusnak together. That was just one game. But I think that it was bad enough that I think I don't really want to see that particular pairing again. I think Lidero can sometimes work when he's sitting back a line. But it's got to be with the right partner. It's got to be someone who's probably defense first. And it's got to be against a team that is going to probably cede a lot of possession.
00:47:02
Speaker
And if they do all those things, sure, he can sit back in line, but I don't think Russ next to the player he needs to be paired with. And, you know, so we'll see. We'll see. Yeah. All right. I have nothing to add there. Sorry. No, fair enough. This is from drone 637. Should the MLS change the rules so you can write off the salaries of players that are injured in non-MLS competitions?
00:47:29
Speaker
I think that MLS should change all kinds of rules about this kind of stuff. I definitely think that it sucks that the Sounders have lost one of their most critical players and they couldn't come close to adequately replacing them if they wanted to. I think that that kind of restriction is unique to MLS, but it is what it is.
00:47:54
Speaker
And it's it is a bummer that they they lost them in a non MLS competition. But although I don't know if that should necessarily factor in, although I do think it's it's frustrating that, you know, JP got hurt during Champions League play. Jordan Morris got hurt while he was on loan.
00:48:12
Speaker
the last time and then the time before that, he got hurt also when he was in Champions League. It does seem to be sort of a recurring theme. I don't know that that should be factored in, but yeah, I mean, it would be great if the Sounders, if they would do something that would allow a team like one injury replacement salary, you know, there's like, for instance, like I think they get a $250,000 relief if the injury happens before the close of the primary transfer window.
00:48:43
Speaker
As it turned out, JP's injury happened on the day of the transfer, the day the transfer window closed. So they weren't, they weren't eligible for any relief. Uh, but, and that's, I mean, that sucks really bad. Like it, even if it's just not like, I feel like if you lose a player for the year, you should get some percentage of their salary and GAM like pro rated to whenever the injury occurred in the year. That seems like a reasonable, uh, way of doing things, but.
00:49:13
Speaker
I don't know. What do I know? But I think, I mean, ultimately the solution is just.
00:49:19
Speaker
create a salary floor and watch your attacks and get rid of that. But that's probably not going to happen. Next one is from Josh on the Sound. How bad are your DP blues? This year, only in the San Jose game do all three DPs start in MLS. Nico and Rule have started together just five other times in MLS. Nico's recovery has been something else, but it feels like our DP minutes this year have not been aligned in MLS play.
00:49:44
Speaker
So I think he is forgetting that Rusnak is actually the third DP because the Sounders have a bunch of games. I actually see if I can find it. They have a bunch of games where they've used all three DPs. They have, let's see, one, two, like eight or nine.
00:50:05
Speaker
point being, I understand what he's saying. They haven't been able to get Jiao Paulo onto the field with Nico and Raul basically at all. That's definitely been a problem. And yeah, I mean, we kind of went over this a bit, but the health of the team is definitely a concern. And
00:50:29
Speaker
Yeah, that's the way it goes. Like, I don't, I don't, there's not really, there wasn't really a question in there, was there? How bad are your DP blows? Bad. Yes. Bad. Bad. Yeah, that's not good. Not good. Uh, Stefan Hoggins wants to know with so many unstable midfield partnerships being given a run with JP's absence, is it time to play Christian in the middle? Uh,
00:50:56
Speaker
I don't think so. I don't know. I like Christian on the wing. I think if you play Christian in the middle, you're probably playing Jordan on the right where he's historically been not as good. I mean, I guess it's possible that Leo Chiu could play on the right, but
00:51:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's, that's also a possibility, but, but it's the, if you solve any problems by moving Christian to the middle, which I'm not even sure that I think you do, especially if Leyva continues to play pretty well.
00:51:31
Speaker
Because I like Christian a lot as a winger. I think I really like his game. I think it works really well with the system the Sounders play. I think he has a good relationship, unsurprisingly, with his brother that they interchange well. And I don't think that as good as Christian is,
00:51:49
Speaker
I don't think that what he gives you as an eight is what the Sounders are missing necessarily. Well, and I think one of the other things to keep in mind is that when he has played in the double pivot previously, it's almost always been with a more defensive minded partner, whether it was Alonso early on and then it was Svensson.
00:52:14
Speaker
And Rusnak is not that play is not like he's a better player in a lot of ways, but he's he's not a defense first. You know, I think you have the same problem moving him back as you do Ledero, which is they aren't their games are not necessarily well suited for each other. And, you know, I suppose you could talk yourself into.
00:52:34
Speaker
Christian being an elite six. Maybe it's in him, but he's never really been asked to play that. And there's not really, to me, a lot of reason to assume he can. And the reality is that the best parts of his game right now are going forward.
00:52:53
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think like that he did have some extended time as a six in the past when Ozzy was hurt and he did fine. But even that was was wasn't that with always Vincent? I think yeah, I guess I guess you're right. Yes, it was. But it's just it's not. I think there's a reason that he has gotten himself into the national team picture.
00:53:16
Speaker
as a more attacking player rather than as a defensive midfielder. And yeah, I just think he's he's good if they were missing an eight like a box to box player that can attack.
Transfer Window Moves
00:53:28
Speaker
In the middle of the pitch, I would be all for it, but I don't think that's what they're missing. All right, the last question is from Dudesby. When does the summer window close with a recent run of form? It's hard to imagine the front office won't at least pick up a player on loan.
00:53:45
Speaker
Well, I guess I should have prepped for when the window closes, but it's like in a few weeks. It's in August, in early August. But I do think the Sounders are gonna make a move. I was able to confirm that they were among the teams that were inquiring about this Mendez guy who Orlando traded to LAFC.
00:54:13
Speaker
I think Mendez was basically just outside their price point. I don't think they're going to give up $300,000 of allocation money just to get a guy for six months. His profile is very similar to Danny Leva's.
00:54:31
Speaker
So I, and I assume, I think you can say he's a better player right now than Danny Leyva, but it's not like this is a player, even though he's relatively young that the senators were going to build around, he's going to be a depth piece. And so I think it's, but it's like a player like that. Someone who's on the outside of their current team who
00:54:52
Speaker
is at the end of their contract and who you can get for relatively cheap. You know, I think I probably mentioned this on the show before, but like an Eric Rometty type of player, I'm not saying the centers are going to go get Eric Rometty, maybe they will, but I like that's the type of profile. I think, you know, this is a guy who is really a defense first six. He's a okay, not great passer. He's sort of on,
00:55:20
Speaker
He's like on the fringe of the rotation in San Jose. He's kind of an expensive player, but he's out of contract at the end of the year. Players like that. You know, Mark, our good buddy Mark Kastner is prepping a story on this. And, you know, he pointed out like a guy like Derek Jones at Charlotte is someone who, you know, kind of a similar player to Rometty.
00:55:47
Speaker
So it's like guys like that. I don't, I don't think the sounders are going to go out and spend a bunch of money and bring in a star. Yeah. And I think, I mean, I feel pretty good about the stars on this team. And I think another thing Mark mentioned is like, you don't want to get into a situation where you're rushing a teenager with a broken spine back from injury, right? Because, and so I really, really would like to see them improve their depth at that position. But I think.
00:56:13
Speaker
that sort of loner, not alone in the soccer sense, but like the rent a player and like the, you know, baseball trade deadline sense. I think, I think it makes a lot of sense.
Conclusion and Upcoming Events
00:56:24
Speaker
And I think, you know, LAFC, I think it makes sense for them to spend what they spent on that signing because
00:56:33
Speaker
they're going all in for MLS Cup. Whereas I think the Sounders are not at a position where it makes sense to overspend to try to do stuff like that. They're at a little more measured stage. So I do, you would know better than I, but I do, I feel like I would say that I expect them to make a signing and you've probably got it nailed in terms of the kind of player they're gonna be signing. Now watch them go out and sign like a,
00:57:03
Speaker
DP right winger or something right just right screw with everybody I don't know how they would do that but yeah yeah well that's yeah I mean I will say like layout you came out of kind of came out of nowhere last year although we knew that they had the ability to sign a u22 and so it wasn't
00:57:21
Speaker
quite as shocking. They don't have that ability now. So I mean, I do think they're going to do some, they'll do something. I think they almost always do. In fact, they may have signed at least one player during the summer transfer window every year that Garth has been here. So
00:57:43
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's that. One thing I did want to let everyone know about, we are very, very close to being able to finalize the details for something I am tenuously, and I suspect we may end up changing the name of this, but we're calling it Yacht-Con Summer.
00:58:02
Speaker
We're very close to being able to announce all the details of a live event. We have a venue that we think is going to work. It's going to be a little smaller than normal, but we think it'll be a lot of fun. It's in Seattle. It's going to be a weekday event.
00:58:19
Speaker
at on the evening, which is what we've done the last few times we had in real life events. But we understand there's, you know, like our risk, everyone's risk taunt is what it is right now. But, you know, we think this can be a lot of fun. We'll raise some money for Seattle Children's and just want to put it out there to be on the lookout for details, because I think we're going to be able to announce something within the next day or two.
00:58:47
Speaker
Yeah, I'm gonna go, so, you know. Yeah, you'll be able to see our ugly faces. But with that, I should sign off. Thank you to our sponsors, Full Pull Wines and Watson's Counter. I am Jeremiah O'Shan, signing off on behalf of Aaron Campo and Likert P. This is No Study at Dis. Remember, you'll never get alone.
00:59:12
Speaker
Green Douglas, where were the waters cut through? Down to wild mountains and tangents you flew Canadian Northwest to the ocean so blue It's Roll On, Columbia Roll On Roll On, Columbia Roll On Roll On, Columbia Roll On Your power is turning our darkness to dawn Roll On, Columbia Roll On
00:59:49
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!