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162. Former Utah Tight End Cole Fotheringham
87 Plays1 month ago
In this week’s Especially for Athletes podcast, former University of Utah tight end Cole Fotheringham shares how a simple shift in mindset—seeing your opponent as your “dance partner”—can unlock your best performance and change the way you compete. He opens up about overcoming fear-based thinking from coaches, parents, and within himself, and how learning to play free instead of fearful transformed both his game and his growth. If you’ve ever overthought failure, struggled with pressure, or wanted to compete with more confidence and purpose, this episode will challenge and inspire you to see the game—and your life—differently.
Key Takeaways:
Your opponent is your partner in growth.
- Your opponent is your "dance partner"- When you stop seeing opponents as enemies and start seeing them as the reason you improve, competition becomes a tool—not a threat.
- Fear is a terrible fuel source- Whether it comes from coaches, parents, or within, fear leads to overthinking and tight play—confidence and freedom lead to your best performance.
- Focus on what you can control—yourself. Comparison, stats, and outcomes pull you out of the moment; your effort, mindset, and preparation keep you grounded and effective.
- Adversity is not something to escape—it’s something to use. Growth comes from staying, adjusting, and pushing through hard situations—not always taking the easier path.
- You play your best when you’re present, not in your head. The more you let go of past mistakes and future worries, the more you can perform freely and fully in the moment.
Podcast Timestamps:
0:16 – Introduction & Cole Fotheringham’s Background
3:41 – Current Situation, Injuries & Staying Ready
4:15 – Compete Without Contempt (Phil Jackson “Dance Partner” Quote)
7:16 – The Sportlight: Pressure, Recognition & Social Media
10:01 – Mental Health & Pressure in Sports 13:16 – Adversity, Transfers & Choosing the Hard Path
16:16 – Resilience Through Injuries & Mental Growth
18:36 – Playing Free vs Playing in Fear 23:16 – Overthinking, Comparison & Being Present
27:46 – How to Get Out of Your Head (Flow State)
30:16 – Fear-Based Coaching vs Love-Based Coaching
33:46 – Creating a Healthy Team Culture
37:46 – Parenting & Coaching Without Fear
40:06 – Don’t Let Fear Be Your Fuel
42:06 – Overthinking Worst Case vs Best Case
43:01 – Final Thoughts & Closing Message
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Credits: Hosted by Dustin Smith & Shad Martin
Produced by Shad Martin and IMAGINATE STUDIO
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Transcript
Introduction to Especially for Athletes
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to the Especially for Athletes podcast, where we explore essential principles that empower athletes to learn life's most valuable lessons through sports.
00:00:16
Speaker
Everybody, thank you for
Introducing Cole Fotheringham
00:00:17
Speaker
joining us. I'm Dustin Smith here with Shab Martin and our guest, Cole Fotheringham. We're thankful to have you, Cole, on our on our podcast, the Especially for Athletes podcast today. Thanks for joining us.
00:00:28
Speaker
Thanks for having me. I'm really excited.
Cole's Football Journey
00:00:31
Speaker
So Cole, just just a quick background on you. You grew up in California. i Graduated high school, what, around 18? Is that right? 2018 or so? 2016. From Sac 20 High School. 2016. Okay. Yeah. 2016. Went and played played football at the University of Utah.
00:00:51
Speaker
um Had a little two two-year stint in between there in Nicaragua as a missionary. The Church of Jesus Christ. When you came home, you played tight end. and And then ended up getting picked up, played one season or two seasons with the Raiders. Three years with the Raiders and then some injuries with Denver and then most recently in New England.
00:01:14
Speaker
Okay. Awesome. So tell us a little bit, we'll we'll kind of work backwards. We'll start with where you're at now and then we'll just kind of work back into your college and
Current Free Agent Status and Training
00:01:23
Speaker
high school days. So tell us what you're doing now and and what you you hurt yourself, explain the injury and then what's kind of, you know, what's your status currently?
00:01:32
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. So most recently, two seasons ago, I got released from the Raiders right around Christmas. So towards the end of the season and I didn't hurt a whole lot. I got invited to a rookie minicamp, which, you know, if you're going into your third year and you're still going to rookie minicamps, it's not the most exciting or flattering, sexy thing that you can do. But, you know, i tried to change my perception and just attack it and see it as an opportunity and signed to Denver after the two-day tryout. After about three or four weeks, I hurt my hamstring in the OTAs and got a medical exemption or, like basically got cut.
00:02:11
Speaker
But with an injury settlement, that was kind of a crappy deal because you're only getting OTA pays. So then kept training, went to New England about a week in to train camp. They had somebody go down.
00:02:25
Speaker
And then had a really good training camp. I was really happy with how it went and how I played. Thought I left everything out there and competed and did as best as I could. But, you know, the result isn't always in and our control. So just tried to...
00:02:41
Speaker
attack the process and do everything that was in my power to to put myself in the situation I wanted to be in, but ultimately didn't didn't go how I wanted and didn't hear much for the rest of the the season. and I'm kind of in the same boat now. When I met you, Dustin, Jaron and I were kind of in the same position. so All year, training with Jaron and a couple other guys down at BYU, just trying to stay ready. and If that call happened, we would we would have been you know, in a good spot and and feeling confident and ready to go. So, um, yeah, kind of in a same similar spot now trying to, you know, kind of get my mind and in a clear space and we'll see what happens.
Balancing Hope and Realism in Career
00:03:23
Speaker
Um, I'm hopeful, but also realistic after, after a year of not hearing much, you know, sometimes the writing's on the wall and you just got to,
00:03:31
Speaker
kind of prepare for what's next, but I'm still holding on hope to maybe hear something by the end of this OTA phase this year. um So yeah, kind of in that limbo, just going with, with the flow and living by living in the wind kind of right now.
00:03:47
Speaker
Yeah. There are many of us who never even got in the flow so that, you know, that's pretty cool to hear. yeah Even be in the flow, right? But, Justin, can I fire a question real quick?
Positive Competition and Personal Bests
00:04:00
Speaker
Just from something you said there, one of our principles is compete without contempt, Cole. And you just said something that we often teach high school kids, right? That some of these kids that they're playing against from the rival high school generation.
00:04:13
Speaker
that they're seeing at local McDonald's and staring each other down are going to be their college teammate, right? And they're working together. And if they were living in the same boundaries, they'd be best friends. And here you are, this Utah Ute down at BYU, working out with a quarterback that used to play against you in one of ah the most heated rivalries. What would you say to high school kids, to parents about...
00:04:37
Speaker
competing because I'm sure when you were at the u you just wanted to dominate BYU as much or more than anybody, you know, it's that rivalry game. But here you are friends with and working out with the quarterback of that team in their facility.
00:04:52
Speaker
What would you tell people about the right way to compete? There's a Phil Jackson quote about competing and your competitor. And it's, it kind of shifted my paradigm, my perception of this whole thing. And it's like, your, your competition is just your partner in the dance.
00:05:11
Speaker
That's not to say like, you're going to take it easy on anybody, but it's really you against you. And and when your competition is competing at their best, they're bringing out the best in you as well. So.
00:05:23
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely have fallen victim and been in that mode of like trying to puff your chest out and kind of like in my ego trying to dominate or, you know, assert even within my own teammates because there's lots of competition within each with each position in each group, but also against the people you're going up against. But I found that the more I just focus on me and trying to play my best, regardless of who I'm playing or who who I'm competing against, that's always been the most conducive to the best results. I don't know if that answers your questions.
00:05:58
Speaker
That's perfect.
Social Media's Impact on Athletes
00:06:00
Speaker
That's perfect. Well, we talk a lot about what we call the sport light, and especially for athletes. And these young kids, I mean, you you coming out and leaving high school in 2016, social media was definitely a thing then. um It's not what it is now. um i don't think TikTok was probably after that. I don't think TikTok, maybe it was around, but...
00:06:24
Speaker
um Everybody has it now. and And so the sport light, you're coming out of California. You're obviously a good high school player in California. And in you know i don't know you what schools were recruiting you, but you commit and go and play at the University of Utah and end up back in California playing in the Rose Bowl, which is You know, one of the the biggest, I mean, they call it the granddaddy of them all. It's such a big, important kind of staple in American history and cultures, the Rose Bowl, you know, the Super Bowl. But when it comes to college football, Rose Bowl is right there and you're playing in it in California.
00:07:04
Speaker
Obviously, the sport light. was bright in your life. it People knew who you were. i so i assume people in your hometown were very aware of the success you were having you in you know up at the u um Talk a little bit if you wouldn't mind, did you feel any pressure as that light got brighter and you became more and more recognized, did you feel any more pressure or to have to perform? Did that affect you at all? Have you seen, maybe have you had teammates who the pressure of being whatever they've been been broadcast in the media or or broadcasted themselves, marketed in themselves on social media, add pressure and and end up being you know too much for guys? Was that a thing for you or have you seen that in any teammates?
00:07:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:56
Speaker
For me, it was uncomfortable personally, just because a, not that I like want to shy away from the spotlight, but I'm not necessarily seeking it. It's not something that I value or feel a need ain to, like put myself out there to be seen. It is validating when you do hear positive feedback from people within your community, coaches and and players like that does feel good. But, um,
00:08:24
Speaker
Like growing up, i didn't have I didn't have any social media or Instagram or anything.
Facing Adversity and Overcoming Challenges
00:08:30
Speaker
Just never really felt called to it or a need to put myself out there like that.
00:08:36
Speaker
um I ended up getting one kind of later in college just because the NIL, everyone was like, you need to get this. This is going to be, you know, you have to create your brand. And still, I don't really post or, you know, it's just not the most natural thing for me. So,
00:08:52
Speaker
Sometimes I think it would it would probably be better for me to to use that spotlight in a way that's more conducive to to sharing, you know, what I think and feel and how to, you know, spread love and and positivity. But I try to do that more in the day-to-day interactions with people and and teammates. I definitely have seen that the pressure can get to people. and I think we we see it all the time in news. Unfortunately, they like to harp on, you know, the negative and those are the big stories that get reported on.
00:09:25
Speaker
Yeah, there certainly is an element of pressure, especially as you keep elevating and and progressing into different levels of competition. like That pressure is real and there's ways to deal with it and to try and regulate yourself and keep yourself grounded. But ultimately, it is yeah it's a lot it's a lot to handle. I feel like I did pretty well and I'm super grateful for all the experiences that I've had through the triumphs and the failures and the lessons learned. like I feel like Football is just conducive to teaching life lessons that go way beyond football. And so I try to have that perspective of, you know, what can I learn from this experience and how can I learn and grow as a result of it?
00:10:08
Speaker
Yeah. That's good. Shad, you were from California as well. You guys in California is when you come back, you go and play out of state like both of you did. When you come back to California to play in something like a Rose Bowl, is that I assume that's a really big deal for people in California. If you come back and play in the Rose Bowl, probably something that the the local people are interested in watching.
00:10:34
Speaker
Would that be something, Shad, that if when Cole came back to play in that game, Cole, did you notice or feel, being that it was in California, did you feel an extra I'm sure there was an extra excitement, which also can be energy, right? It can fuel you.
00:10:51
Speaker
I'll share a story. Yeah. can you you about me This was definitely more prevalent because Pac-12, we played a lot of games in California between UCLA and USC and even some games preseason. My first time freshman year playing UCLA, I think it was our first game in California ever. And there was definitely that excitement, like,
00:11:12
Speaker
um and energy. I had people at the game that were from my hometown. I remember we had this trick play. They like did a little sweep to Britt, and Britt threw it up to me in the end zone, and I went up and made a great catch over a cornerback, and I like got up and started taunting this this kid. like That's like so not me. or like I don't even know where it came from, but there is like that element of that excitement of you know coming back to your hometown and then playing well.
00:11:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's just a funny story that I was reminded of. i haven't thought about that a long time. Yeah. well um i all have those We all have those moments, don't we? Yeah, for sure.
00:11:55
Speaker
One time I was playing baseball at Cal State LA and um and i there were these girls basketball girl basketball players that were ah you know, just we became friends with because we all live there in the sports dorms there at Cal State LA.
00:12:11
Speaker
And one of them was like, did any you play basketball in high school? I was like, yeah, I played basketball in high school. And my coach gave us this highlight tape for a gift. And so I got out this highlight tape to show, and there was this one game where it was just the dynamics. It was our our rival, Crosstown rival, and some things had happened the game before.
00:12:40
Speaker
Anyway, I start... I hit a few shots and I'm thinking these girls are going to think Shaddon ball, you know, then I, I'm turning to their bench and I'm like yelling stuff at their bench. And they're like, wow, we didn't see that in you. And in my mind, I was thinking, I didn't even remember that that happened. Like, that's a,
00:13:02
Speaker
I'm glad that tape doesn't exist. I could make a video on what it looks like to not compete without contempt and to be an idiot, you know? yeah We've all fallen into that at some point, naturally. Yeah.
00:13:17
Speaker
Cole, what have you noticed either in your own you don't have to get, you know, this is too personal, I understand, but. What have you noticed in the world of mental health and negative mental health with athletes, either teammates or just you know just people you know are played against?
00:13:34
Speaker
and have Is that something that we need to be working with young junior high and high school athletes on how to manage? Did you see that much in college or in the NFL?
00:13:46
Speaker
o Yeah, I mean, there's, I would say more in the NFL. I saw people that had to take breaks from football because it was too much.
00:13:59
Speaker
i think that it stems, you know, this is my personal opinion, that especially now today, it's really easy for parents, and this happened to me too, to kind of victimize their kids and and you know really enable that. like For example, like all the transferring, like if something's not going their way, it's really easy to just kind of give them an out and be like, okay, well, we'll just go somewhere else. Not to say that that's not always the right move for the player or the or the kid, but I think that there is some element of
00:14:34
Speaker
you know, working through some adversity. And on the other side of that, it's really, don't know, it's really, it pays off to have to go through some hard things. It's not always going to be, you know, cake and ice cream in an easy way. Because I had, like, like for example, in my high school, Sam Darnold was the year ahead of me.
00:14:56
Speaker
And I was a quarterback in my grade, but it would have been really easy for me to just transfer to another school. My dad had even suggested that at one point, but it's like, no, I think I'll just stick this through. And it's like, okay, I made the switch to tight end and then had a great career playing tight end. So it's like,
00:15:16
Speaker
I don't know, sometimes the easiest way isn't isn't the best way, in my opinion. yeah But then there's cases where it works out great for kids. like it's just It's a feel thing. Every situation is so different. But I think there is an element of this like enabling and victimization where the kids don't really have to go through any adversity.
00:15:35
Speaker
yeah That might be an unpopular opinion. No, i think that is I think it's more popular. I think you're right in saying that sometimes it can be good for everybody, but I think that everybody thinks they're the sometime, right? Everybody thinks they're theirs is the reason that, well, this is good for everybody. And, and sometimes it absolutely is exactly what you said. We just don't want to call it what it is, but it's, it's just running from the, it's just running from difficulty and, and,
00:16:06
Speaker
yeah it was I heard it said somewhere, you guys, I'm probably slaughtering the quote, but that all of our real successes are on the other side of hard, right? So you got to get through hard. and And then the other side of that is where you have success. And so if the kids never have a chance to to have to do that or or learn that they can do that, then, you know, like you said, the answer is always greener pasture somewhere else.
00:16:33
Speaker
We're just running from problems all the time. Well, you can see how, once they get take on adult responsibilities, you can't just run from your problems. You can't just not go to work or just leave your family, right?
00:16:48
Speaker
So yeah, that's, that's interesting. So let's talk about resiliency and Chad, if you have anything for fire off here, but, but resiliency, when you got hurt, talk to us about what you learned about being resilient or what you learned about yourself and resiliency having, i mean, you make it to the NFL, which is so rare and obviously a dream come true for you. And then you randomly get hurt and you've been fighting ever since then. So obviously you've,
00:17:17
Speaker
every time you get up and go to the gym and go work out, you're practicing resiliency. But how did you, what did you find in yourself having to fight back from being hurt? I'm guessing you had to dig deep.
00:17:30
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. And it's like the initial reaction is just anger and frustration. Like, why Why is my body not responding in this moment? Like I've been working so hard and then I get to it.
00:17:43
Speaker
and And then it's just like this huge rollercoaster of emotions of like elation to making making a team after a workout or a tryout. And then getting released after an injury where it's like, it wasn't even a performance-based thing. it's just like, I'm not available. And that's what you learn in the NFL, especially when nothing is um set in stone. Like you're you're battling every day, especially as kind of a lower tier or um a fringe guy. It's like your availability is super important. So I had had a hamstring injury after my second game, being active and elevated.
00:18:23
Speaker
And then the same injury happened again in Denver. But um one one thing that i learned, and this was you know this is something that I'd read in a book called Inner Excellence, and I would really recommend it to any young athlete. They talk a lot about injuries and kind of the subconscious element of injuries.
00:18:46
Speaker
and how a lot of times your body's trying to protect yourself from experiencing a negative emotion. So like I put a correlation together of injuries were happening after i had made a mistake, a critical error in a play. And so this is this is kind of, and maybe it's kind of woo-woo or out there, but I think that there is some element of like, you know,
00:19:12
Speaker
if you if you dig deep and try and and find the reasons behind certain, and not to say that every injury has an underlying message or or meaning, but I took it as an opportunity to to try and better myself and in up my mental strength of like, just because I make a mistake, you know, everything, that doesn't mean the the world's far falling apart. I don't need to run away from that negative emotion of,
00:19:37
Speaker
feeling failure or fearing failure. Like I can face that head on. And I was really happy when i went to new England and had another opportunity and finally felt like I was playing free and without fear.
00:19:52
Speaker
And when I did make mistakes, like I shook it off super fast and just focused on the next play without griping too much on, on what had happened. So yeah, those are that's kind of my two cents on on injuries. I would really recommend Inter Excellence. i I kind of, my brother, Luke, had recommended it to me because he had read this thing about injuries and my ego was like, no, like that's not true. like i'm not there's There's no correlation between like what I'm thinking and feeling and and the injuries. like It just happened iss by chance. But after I read it, I had a really big realization that, wow, there's some truth to that. I can take this and learn from it.
00:20:28
Speaker
Yeah.
Transition from College to NFL
00:20:30
Speaker
It's interesting, you know, I was reading over your story and you just added a little bit to it. But so growing up, it sounds like you played quarterback. You're the quarterback behind, you said Sam Darnold. Who is it? San Clemente? Yeah, he was ah the year ahead of me. And then we had a quarterback named Jack Sears who also went to USC.
00:20:50
Speaker
And he was a great athlete player. And he was the year behind me. So like, yeah, there was a lot of good quarterbacks coming out of that time. Yeah. so you So you grow up being a quarterback, you need to switch and play tight end, then you go to Utah, and then you get drafted, and then you know you get relegated to the practice squad, and you you do all that work.
00:21:14
Speaker
And it sounds like it was December 24th, 2004, or 2022 or three. Anyway, but that's when you're elevated to the roster against the Kansas City Chiefs. Yeah, first game. I'm wondering, yeah, I'm wondering what that felt like. I mean...
00:21:34
Speaker
You had played in the Rose Bowl. You had played at Utah, which has this incredible environment. But your whole time growing up, I'm sure your dream was the NFL. And you've worked through all the adversity and everything. And then you run out of that tunnel in Kansas City and you're active on the rosse your roster. You're going to get snaps in a NFL game.
00:21:58
Speaker
What did that feel like for you and your family and going through the resilience to get there? Yeah, it was it was an amazing feeling because there had been lots of opportunities where people in my position room had gone down and there was options to get elevated and and brought up to play. And it just never panned out, whether they kept two tight ends and just rolled with two, or sometimes they would even bring guys in from off the street. And it's like, what the heck? Like, why am I even here? You know, like, and it would be really frustrating. And so I think leading up to that moment,
00:22:31
Speaker
What had happened, it was actually crazy. that There was no intention of me playing until Friday. One of my best friends at um and teammates, Jesper, see got hurt on a Friday practice, tore his hamstring.
00:22:45
Speaker
And then next thing you know, like I'm on the plane leaving on Saturday to go to Kansas City. And so I think I had had some some thoughts and feelings. that week that somehow that was going to happen. Like I almost anticipated it. I didn't know how it was going to shake out, but I was kind of trusting.
00:23:01
Speaker
And then by the end of the week, I'm like, dang, you know, it's not happening. am i am I crazy for thinking feeling this? And then all of a sudden I'm on the plane and like that kind of that surprise and really helped me to play free because there was no expectation. It's like, you know, he got pulled up last second, had no time to really prepare, but I'd always prepared like I was going to play And I tried to carry that mindset even after pretty much two full years of not seeing any active
Playing Without Fear and Achieving Flow
00:23:29
Speaker
time. And then the following week is when I had hurt my hamstring in it. And it was after a after a play where I'd made a mistake on it. So that's that's kind of when that train of thought started to happen. It's like, I need to... There's something about playing free and in the moment and not not caring about any mistakes that I've had to definitely develop and learn over the years. I tend to overanalyze and fear...
00:23:53
Speaker
the failure, especially earlier in my career. And I think that had limited my chances of, you know, really just living in the moment and, and being in that flow state.
00:24:10
Speaker
Hmm.
00:24:12
Speaker
and That living in the moment thing is easier said than done, but we would call that the hour, right? that That's our principle of, so you have to train yourself. So are you cognizant? I mean, would you would tell yourself,
00:24:25
Speaker
let it go? Or i mean, did you have any words that you'd use self-talk to help yourself be more aware of the moment? Yeah, we had a we had a girl, her name was Dr. Nicole. She was like a mental performance coach at Utah. And I would go and listen, but like it never really clicked because I hadn't experienced it. I hadn't i hadn't been in that flow state for a long time because I was so in my head.
00:24:48
Speaker
um Like it's it's one thing to talk about it and give yourself like the cues, but like once you can experience the flow state and and you start to feel it and play more in your heart and not so much in your mind, that's when I was able to kind of like have the awareness of like, okay, they're kind of like diametrically opposed in a way. So it's like, okay, I'm i'm kind of centered right here. I want to switch that. Like, let me be cognizant and aware of that and switch it back into...
00:25:13
Speaker
kind of into my heart and playing free. But that didn't happen until much later, unfortunately. It's like, even if I could never get another opportunity to to play and and to be in the field and and to use that knowledge, at least I can carry that in into my next chapter of life. I think it's the same principle and it still holds true, whether it's playing a game of football or, you know, your data day-to-day at whatever work or even with relationships and family. Yeah.
00:25:42
Speaker
So how do you, sorry to dominate the questions here. How did you know? Do you realize you're in the, how did how did you realize, ah guess what I'm, that you're in that flow state. I guess what I'm getting at is that for somebody who's not accustomed to being in it, you know, what are the signs to recognize that, okay, I'm way too in my head right now and I need to,
00:26:07
Speaker
Yeah. You know, I need to do something. Do you have, did I mean, did you, could you recognize, was there a couple things that would happen or you'd be like, okay, I'm, I'm way in my head right now. I need to chill out.
00:26:20
Speaker
Yeah. And it was when I wasn't aware of it, but I'll give you some examples of things that I was thinking that maybe I'm sure most people think, especially when you're playing a game. Like for example, i would be in the football game.
00:26:35
Speaker
And it would be like third quarter and it's like, I only have one catch and I'm starting to worry like, okay, like how am I going to get to my goal of three to four catches in this many yards? If it's third quarter, like time's running out and you start to get like that anxiousness, you're thinking about how many other catches the other tight ends have and you're like starting to compare and contrast. It's like, it's very, um yeah, it's like you're starting to play out scenarios that haven't even happened yet.
00:27:01
Speaker
as opposed to just like trusting the moment and just surrendering into, into what you need. And, and by doing, by focusing all that attention on things that you can't control, like you're, you're limiting the energy that you have to put into the present moment.
Coaching Techniques for Optimal Performance
00:27:15
Speaker
So it's like, you just, and to answer the other question, like, how can you, how can you get in it? it's like, yeah, we say all these things like be present right here, right now. But it's like,
00:27:26
Speaker
how do I direct all of my energy into right now and like give everything I have for that play. And then when it's done, it's done. And like, let it go. Don't harp on it. And like you said, it's a lot easier said than done and it comes with practice and experience. But I was very grateful to have that transition and that awareness going into that last training camp. And it was like,
00:27:49
Speaker
an amazing feeling knowing that I had put everything out there and I had practiced all those things that we're talking about and, and felt like the, at that point, the result and the objective that i had set out to, like it, it didn't matter because everything leading up to that moment was exactly what it needed to be. Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:11
Speaker
Have you learned things about doing that? Like, um boy, right I watch kids. It's even, it's very apparent in young athletes, you know, when someone gets in their head, maybe even more than someone like you who has these just super great physical attributes, sometimes a high school football player or basketball player, you can almost sit in the stands and see that that kid is in their head.
00:28:36
Speaker
As you fought that that battle yourself, What have you learned that allows you to wipe that last play clean and and just put all of your energy to the next play? Because there might be some skills associated with that or things that have helped you to be able to do that. that I don't think anyone wants to be in their head, but sometimes we end up there. Have you learned some things that have helped you?
00:29:02
Speaker
I mean, um I'll say it again, that book, that inner excellence book, like every young athlete should read it. Whether it resonates or doesn't, like at least give it a try. Because for me, that was like a paradigm shifting perception change completely. um I think that there are certain kids that innately are just quick to forget mistakes all Like um I admire my little brother crew. He's in high school. He's a junior going to be senior. He plays hoops.
00:29:26
Speaker
And it's amazing to see, you know, even after a couple missed shots, like he doesn't waver. It's like the next one's going in. It doesn't matter where I was at that age for sure. More like, Oh, I'm going to shrink a little bit, kind of tuck in the shell. I don't want to make another mistake or hurt the team, but it's like in his reality, like,
00:29:46
Speaker
the next shot is the best shot for the team because the next one's going in. It's like, I think innately some people just kind of have it, but I think it can be learned at the same time because I was definitely one to kind of shy away or, you know, fear would creep in pretty early. And um yeah, I think it can it can be practiced and learned for sure.
00:30:09
Speaker
and I think we all experience that to to some degree. I think some people just are are more quick to forget than others, which is a blessing for sure. Yeah. And in my experience, gu ah some coaches are better at fostering that atmosphere of, we know we're going to make mistakes, move on. And other coaches, you know, you and I have played for a variety of coaches if we could, but um some instill, maybe even accidentally or parents could do this,
00:30:36
Speaker
a fear of making a mistake in their athletes and they think that that fear is going to they're going to be my players are going to be so afraid of making a mistake that they're going to end up playing really good and my experience playing for a variety of different coaches is when you instill that fear of making a mistake what you've done is you've actually limited especially some of the athletes we all have different personalities but Fear limits.
00:31:04
Speaker
And I think great leaders, team captains, coaches, they understand we're all playing a hard game and the opponent's trying really hard to make you make mistakes.
00:31:17
Speaker
Mistakes are going to happen. And the more we accept that and then strive for excellence and put our energy toward the things within our control, which is the next play. We can't control the last play. So putting energy there isn't good. Coaches who foster the very thing you're talking about, Cole, they seem to have more success than those who lead with fear has been my experience.
00:31:39
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. I played, like you said, for a variety of different coaches and it's like, I would say the majority of coaches that I played for had been more fear-based and my personality is had not been conducive to perform well with that kind of coaching. And it took a lot of work and, um, kind of self-realization I realized that, you know, even though the methodology was different, like,
00:32:15
Speaker
it was making me a better player. a lot of times, if you could get over the fact that, you know, oh he's yelling at me or, you know, this, this doesn't feel good. It's like, just get out of your feelings and, and realize, or I guess you want to, you want to, I don't know. It's hard. It's a hard question.
00:32:32
Speaker
It's like, um,
00:32:38
Speaker
You want to focus on what the coach is saying and not in a way that he's saying it sometimes, right? Yeah, yeah. And it's almost like they're testing you, right? It's like, I think that on the other side of of a lot of that adversity, there could be good, but I think that the methodology of, you know, do I want to be feared or loved?
00:33:01
Speaker
or be conducive to people playing in their heart versus in their head. Like, I think, yeah, obviously being in your heart and being free, that that's conducive to the best results. But, you know, some some athletes are able to do it regardless of the pressure and regardless of that, you know, that kind of mental game that's going on between coach and player. And I think that's that's what makes them so great is that they were able to get there without...
00:33:31
Speaker
without the coach that is is fostering that. I don't know, it's ah yeah that's a very that's a balance and a dance that you can observe. And it's it's really awesome to see successes on both sides. But if I ever had the opportunity to coach, I would i would definitely choose the side of you know not being feared and and trying to foster an environment where people feel free to make mistakes and and play play loose and play fun.
00:33:57
Speaker
Yeah. It's hard as a coach. I can tell you having been a coach for a lot of years is that it's because that it is a very fine line there where as a coach you do have to critique and you do have to point out where things are done wrong. And if taken the wrong way, it can be he's negative. He only points out the negative. He tells me what I do wrong all the time. And that's all I think about is that I'm going to make a mistake and he's going to get. and But you Yes, like the coach has to do that. But I think there's, I think just like the player learns how to manage themselves better. I think coaches learn how to manage themselves better too. You learn that the way you say something or the tone that you say something, or instead of saying, don't do this,
00:34:41
Speaker
you instead you say do this right yeah instead of saying you know don't take your eyes off the ball you say look it in right you you so it's to teach them what to do so that it's it's more of an encouragement of i know you can make this play do this and it'll probably be easier for you rather than i know you can make this place will stop doing that right but that comes from kind of trial and error sometimes too, unfortunately for coaches. But at the end of the day, I think what you said earlier and you commented on it, that book, you know, we would call that eyes up, do the work. We would say that eyes up is, and you know, if you're listening to this and you have a son or a daughter that's needs to learn about how to get out of their head and be more present. Okay. Eyes up is Cole just gave you
00:35:30
Speaker
something that you could do, something that helped him. You're now aware that there's a book out there that could help. Now, the next thing is, are you going to do something with it are you going to get the book and read it? Or, you know, and and and that's where I think we go looking for answers a lot to things. and And we like the answer as long as it doesn't require us to have to go do anything. know yeah Then it's like, take a pill, right?
00:35:54
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. The change, yeah, change of habit, change a way of lifestyle, and that's, it doesn't work that way. So, You know I would love to be better at being in the moment, not being in my head.
00:36:07
Speaker
Even now, I mean, i tell quarterbacks I train all the time, one play and clear, play the next play, move on You can't play backwards. You can't, you know, you don't drive your car forward looking through the rear view mirror. You'll run right into a wall. So you got to look forward. Too many of us live backwards.
00:36:24
Speaker
we're We're rehashing yesterday's negativity and wondering why today sucks. Well, yeah you know, it's because we're living backwards. And so, but at the same time, it's hard to do. and how do we learn to do it? Well, you have to break the habit and day by day, one time at it one, one, one, you know, one event at a time. And Cole, I think you're, and we hope you're still playing, man. I hope you still, I watched your run routes there when I was working with you and Jaren and
00:36:56
Speaker
You definitely still have.
Future Prospects and Life Beyond Sports
00:36:58
Speaker
I mean, it was amazing watching you run at your height and size, just how smooth you run, how smooth you catch the ball. You look great. Like I, i know you just need to get the right eyes on you and you'll be playing again. So, you know, we'll be pulling for you for sure. But your, your story of, I can't imagine. I mean, I guess I kind of can cause it happened to me. It just didn't happen at the, in, in professional sports, but,
00:37:23
Speaker
it did sort of happen and to shad in college a little bit is to have it all of a sudden, just like that, some freakish injury happens and you're like, wait a minute, that might be it.
00:37:35
Speaker
Like 10 minutes ago, it was great. I was rocking and rolling. And now like, wait, what? So Like, you know, for you to continue to push through, Cole, it's been fun to watch you and hopefully you still got some more. But if if you don't, I know that you're going to take those experiences with you and move into the next facet of life. And that's the thing that I would tell any athlete is that when the sport light turns off and People are no longer cheering for you to play and paying to come watch you play.
00:38:06
Speaker
You think it's the end of the world, but you'll find out quickly if you if you'll turn the page and and really will move on to the next thing and not, again, live backwards. shut the Move on. That page is over in your life that you'll find that life continues to get better. like it's not yeah It won't be the highlight of your life. You'll have other things.
00:38:28
Speaker
For sure. Thank you. that's That's great advice, too. Cole, do you have any ah parting words to wrap things up? No, I just love every time we interview someone who's had the experiences, like someone like you, Cole, there always seems to be little gems that come from athletes' experiences. And we we feel like the life lessons that...
00:38:53
Speaker
people learn from sports are really the most valuable things from sports. And so i I love that idea of really not living with our heart, not up in our head. I think it applies to so many things. One of the best bits parenting advice I ever got was from someone I respected a lot. And they said, don't be a fear-based parent. and they meant two things by that. Like, don't Don't make your kids so afraid of making a mistake that they're afraid to
Competing with Love and Life Lessons
00:39:22
Speaker
talk to you. That was the that was the first one because they're going to make mistakes. You'd rather them talk with you through those.
00:39:29
Speaker
But then the other thing is that a lot of our reactions as parents, when we fly off the handle or do something, it actually comes from a place of fear. And as I was just thinking of your own experience, Cole, and what you've learned in your sports journey, I was reminded of that, that when we live our life,
00:39:48
Speaker
We often say, Dustin, you know, don't let hate be your fuel to compete and to do what you do. Let love be your fuel. I think we could add to that from this conversation that don't let fear be your fuel, you know, fear of making a mistake. Like, yeah what about... What about love being your fuel there as well instead of fear? And when we're coming, our actions are motivated by fear. It feels constraining and we end up blowing up and doing things that we we wouldn't do otherwise.
00:40:19
Speaker
When our actions come from a place of love, it seems that very few things happen that we regret. yeah And so including like you said, Cole, going to New England and being able to feel like, hey, this might not work out, but I left it all out there.
00:40:35
Speaker
i I have no regrets. I just feel like whether it's parenting or work or whatever it might be, when we go from a place of like active, passionate, focused, focused, intense love, not, not just, Oh, I just love everything. I'm not talking about that, but just when love is our motivator, yeah then it's just so much better than fear.
00:40:57
Speaker
Yeah. So that's, that's what I'm leaving with Dustin. Yeah. Thank you. da solved got me Any, any final words you want to share with any, any parent, a big athlete that might be listening, something, piece of advice or anything you'd share with them?
00:41:13
Speaker
No, I think we said it all. Thank you guys for giving me the opportunity to share some of those experiences. I've shared it with close friends and family, but never on a space like this. So hopefully somebody can, like you said, take it and learn from it and maybe gain something from my experience and what what I've learned through you know the ups and downs of sports. Yeah, like we said, be be more in your heart, more centered, more present, and less worried about future or or past and And yeah, I hope everyone has great success and get exactly what they need from their experience in sports.
00:41:51
Speaker
It's so unique and individualized, but it's amazing too that it's in a team setting where you're working together with people. And um I'm really impressed with what you guys are doing to help the the next generation out in their day-to-day experience. So thank you guys for for doing what you do.
Focus on Positivity and Conclusion
00:42:11
Speaker
I'll end on this, Cole, because what you just said reminded me of something. it kind of summarizes, I think, what ended up being the main subject here, main point of this. I read just the other day something along the lines of, if we're going to overthink the worst case scenario, then why can't we overthink the best case scenario as well?
00:42:30
Speaker
Yeah. right we we We focus so much on what could go wrong and we overthink that. Well, that means we have the ability. So why don't we overthink what could go right? like Let's think about the positive and the good that can happen instead of always you know focusing on the bad. In other words, fear, which which innate which which locks us up.
00:42:51
Speaker
yeah Think of the best case scenario too. so right In your case, Cole, yeah, you might not you might not be playing in a year from now, but You might be in a Superbowl. So, yeah right. Might as well be that way.
00:43:03
Speaker
Right. Yeah, exactly. All right, brother. Well, thanks for joining us, everybody. Thanks for joining me, especially for athletes podcast. Keep your eyes up do the work. Thank you for joining the, especially for athletes podcast to learn more about, especially for athletes organization, get a copy of our book, the sport light, or to bring our program to your team, school, business, or organization. Visit us at especially for athletes.org.