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Horror Games
268 Plays4 years ago
In this episode, Fraser (Satsunami) and Adam discuss their experiences with horror games. From favourite moments to what makes a good horror game, no stone is left unturned in this latest discussion!
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chad Tsunami. Hello everybody. Welcome to the third episode of Chad Tsunami where I am joined with my very good friend from last week. Hello Adam. Welcome. Thank you for having me back. No problem. Thank you for coming back.
Adam's Early Horror Game Experiences
00:00:34
Speaker
although I did scare myself silly doing research for this podcast so I don't know we'll see we'll see how I feel at the end but thank you for having me back for now yeah no problem thank you for coming back yeah as you said you were getting spooked by research on this topic yeah today we are going to be talking about horror games and more importantly our
00:00:56
Speaker
I suppose wonderful experience with them. So yeah, I suppose to kick it off. So usually this is the kind of part, this is the part where we usually introduce the topic and give a bit of background, but I don't feel as if horror games really need like an introduction, do they? I got the Webster's dictionary definition of horror, do all that. Oh well.
00:01:19
Speaker
Damn, okay, well we'll save it for the next time I think, yeah. So yeah, instead of that, I've got a, well hopefully a good question to kick this off. So Adam, what was your very first experience with horror games?
00:01:36
Speaker
That is a very good question. So I'm pretty sure my first ever experience with a horror game. And again, you might debate whether this is horror or not, but to me, it was horror. So in the late 90s or the early 2000s, I can't quite remember the year, but it was one of the House of the Dead arcade cabinets. Oh, yeah. That was probably my very first experience. And again, I know House of the Dead is not the scariest game, although at the time of my life, I thought it was quite
00:02:05
Speaker
That was my, that's my first experience. And my first proper experience though, was probably when I played Bioshock for the first time and that was like 2008. That was probably my very, that was my first proper introduction to kind of like a kind of horror game.
00:02:20
Speaker
Bioshock is a good one to kick it off though, right enough. Oh silly back in the day. I know it's like over 10 years old now but I was watching some walkthroughs again just to remind myself I'm like damn it's a creepy game. Even the later ones. I think they get less scary as they go on but they've still got those moments that just hit you like a ton of bricks like oh my god what the hell was that?
00:02:49
Speaker
I mean, in terms of experiences with horror games,
00:02:57
Speaker
So basically I remember when it was growing up my parents were quite strict in what I played. Like not overly strict but when it came to the age ratings they definitely took it seriously.
Impact of Parental Controls on Gaming
00:03:12
Speaker
So it was pretty much, I was in a similar boat of like kind of to begin with with the World of Horror games I was more like an observer on the outside. Like as you said like all this um
00:03:16
Speaker
I...
00:03:23
Speaker
like shooter arcade games like House of the Dead, you know, those kind of games. And even on YouTube as well, like I remember growing up and when YouTube was just kind of getting into its prime and everything without let's players and things and they were playing like Amnesia, Slender Man, those kind of games. And that was like my initial kind of exposure to horror games.
00:03:47
Speaker
And it's one of those things where it's like, see when you're on the outside of that world and you're looking in thinking, oh, he's getting scared over nothing. Ha, ha, ha. And then as soon as somebody says, do you want to hold the controller? And you say, I don't think I want to do that. Nope. Nah, I just completed it. It's all good. It's like, I don't think I'm going to do that.
00:04:14
Speaker
But like the first hands-on experience, I suppose like my first hands-on experiences with horror games is kind of debatable. They were mostly shooter games so Left 4 Dead was like one of the first kind of technically proper horror slash FPS games that I played.
00:04:36
Speaker
It's kind of like, I suppose it's like an entry level, into horror games. Whereas like, you've still got a gun and you've got ways to defend yourself, but it's still... Yeah. I mean, yeah, no, I'll give you that. But I mean, other games like...
Is Gears of War a Horror Game?
00:04:58
Speaker
In fact, so this is what I was talking to you about like just before the stream started, about what games kind of constitute as horror games. So for example Gears of War, I was kind of having like a mini debate with you saying can you encode that into the horror category? Like for the very first Gears of War?
00:05:18
Speaker
I mean it has its elements of fear and spooky moments but I don't know if you would include it as a full-fledged horror game. I think that's a difficult one to say because I think technically it isn't because you'd say it's a third-person shooter. It probably comes under that generic inaction
00:05:42
Speaker
uh kind of category but like thinking back to it like there are some as you said some definite like horror kind of moments in it and everything like i know you mentioned the when we were chatting you mentioned the berserker like yeah that is definitely a horror moment and the um what are the bats calling it are they called krill or something like that you know like once you can't stay in the dark for that it's definitely like it definitely
00:06:05
Speaker
Gears of War 1 leaned more into the horror territory than its sequel certainly did. I don't know. To me, horror is, if you find it scary, then I think you can class it as horror. It's not my technical definition, but... Webster's Dictionary defines horror as, what Adam said. It's not what Adam said. It's money I had to pay for that.
00:06:32
Speaker
actually speaking of Gears of War that kind of leads in like very well to the subject and kind of the first point that I want to drill it to raise so I've definitely like I've spoken about this in the channel before but getting your opinion or your experiences first
00:06:52
Speaker
What was, can you think of a game like just a normal game that wasn't like marketed as a horror game was not you know like just a normal game but it had unexpected horror elements?
Unexpected Horror in Non-Horror Games
00:07:08
Speaker
oh yes I certainly can and I remember thinking about this question and it took me about five seconds and I was like bingo that's the one and it's the level we don't go to Ravenholm from Half-Life 2 which in my humble opinion is probably the best horror level in any video game
00:07:27
Speaker
like horror games or non-horror games. And I think it's one of the most memorable levels as well. And for me, anyway, all of gaming. And that's the one that I thought, yep. That's the level that, because Half-Life 2 isn't, well, none of that was in none of the Half-Life games. None of them are specifically horror games, I think, again.
00:07:46
Speaker
couple of elements and stuff like obviously there's zombies and there's monsters and things like that but they're not horror games you know but at one level it became a horror game and my god was it terrifying and it's I still find it terrifying I like I was like maybe I should play through it before this and I was like no I'm just gonna watch a walk through like I can't
00:08:06
Speaker
like it's just it's a perfective level and i just think it i think it nails every everything that like a good horror experience needs like you have the creepy environment like the the have you sort of have you played the the that you have left to that level at all um i don't think i have no i haven't actually which i know is like an exclusive to be like yes this is my confession i haven't played half life 2
00:08:30
Speaker
I played the beginning that way so you don't have the eternal disappointment of spending the rest of your life waiting for Half Life 3 so maybe maybe you're the smart one in the long run to avoid that but basically so Ravenholm is this um is this small town that um basically the kind of combine who are the bad guys in Half Life 2 they basically like unleashed hell on this town and um basically infected it with all these kind of head are you seeing the head oh yeah yeah yeah
00:08:56
Speaker
ones that create the zombies, so they basically infected that town. It's become a ghost town now, which is basically... Well, it's not really a ghost town. It's infected with all these zombies and headcrabs and everything. And you kind of have to go through it. Circumstances force you to push through the town. And it's just really creepy and everything. From the way it's introduced at the very beginning, the first time you hear about it, you're in this rebel base, and there's a tunnel leading to it. And when the character says, oh, that's the old Ravenholm tunnel, it's like, we don't go there anymore, and that's it.
00:09:26
Speaker
and then you know circumstances force you to go in there and it's just creepy as all hell you've got all these different enemy types that just like are so fast and so frightening and shrieking at you and like all angles and everything yeah pacing is great and everything and it just visually looks like imagine the horror environment and it's just so different from the rest of the game because it really makes you feel vulnerable in a game that for the most part you feel pretty like kind of powerful and like like you can like you know
00:09:53
Speaker
deal like a lot of damage and hold your own. But this probably really, for me, kind of really made you feel vulnerable. So for me, it really stands out and it's the one I'd always go to.
00:10:01
Speaker
That is a good call. I mean, I have to admit all my Half-Life 2 knowledge basically comes from Garry's Mod. So I don't need to play that. I think I will probably get that on the stream at some point. But no, that is a good point. Especially the idea of, and I think we will come on to it later, but the idea of feeling powerful and the fact that you've got a weapon in that game.
00:10:26
Speaker
because I mean I've seen like all the game mechanics and the weapons that you do get in that game and they are pretty powerful things but like the fact that you've got all of those tools to be able to fight off any creatures and then all of a sudden getting that kind of that confidence taken away from you because of like that bit in the game I mean that is horror done right um I would definitely say that um but I mean I'm just trying to think of like
00:10:54
Speaker
my examples so I'm gonna admit like I actually looked up my one before before I came on tonight um so basically I've talked about this before I know but sorry just before I go on have you ever played the Harry Potter game before? I played like some of the early ones like the very first yeah have you played the very first one
00:11:19
Speaker
think I played a bit but I don't think I got that far into it so yeah I can't really remember I have to admit yeah so basically like I was rewatching it and like rewatching it now it's just so silly you're like which pixel tarry and all of that
00:11:34
Speaker
But yeah, there's this scene where I can't remember why, but you get thrown down a dungeon and you have to escape and you have to go through three separate doors to do different tasks to open the door. And you have to pull each lever in each room. So the first two are easy. It's all platforming and, oh look, it's Harry as a wizard. Haha, you know, joy, whimsy. And then you get to the third room.
00:12:00
Speaker
and as I said looking back on it now it's not scary at all but like see the very first time I saw this I was terrified so you go into this room and there's this massive troll that's just sleeping on a bed and
00:12:15
Speaker
Basically what you have to do is, you have basically to lift up this cage and throw it across the room. But you're supposed to put it in a certain place where it won't make a noise. But if you run about too much, or you slam the cage down, then the troll will wake up and start chasing you. And it makes this horrible, horrible noise.
00:12:39
Speaker
and so like I remember like being really young and playing that and I was terrified I was like oh my god oh my god oh my god speed run like it was like my first subconscious speed run moment where I was like grab the key run the hell out of there and it fortunately couldn't follow you out the door so once I got the key I ran out and my heart was beating and I was like oh thank god thank god I'm out of this so I climbed up the stairs or whatever unlocked the door
00:13:06
Speaker
thought, that's it, I never have to deal with another troll again. I open the door and there's two trolls just waiting for you roaming about. And I remember like putting down the controller and just being like, nope, I don't think I will. Just turning it off. Turning off the PlayStation like nope, nope, nope. Oh God, I was like, yeah, no, absolutely, no way. Have you ever gone back to the game? Have you ever finished it?
00:13:35
Speaker
No, I've never finished it. I think I might have gone back and done bits of it, but that was the bit that I always finished out. Like, I've ever replayed it when I was younger. I got to that bit, but because it kind of scarred me a bit, to go back to it, I was kind of like, yeah, I'm not playing this anymore.
00:13:54
Speaker
I was going to say, that's a sign of horror being of anything too effective. It's actually really weird because there's a level later on in that game where you have to run away. It's like Crash Bandicoot almost where it's like you're running towards the camera and you have to run away from the massive troll. You're the scene in the film where it's like the troll in the dungeon, like the actual troll, the one who's in the toilet.
00:14:22
Speaker
it's like the same one that's meant to be chasing you and you're supposed to run away from him and it's weird because i saw like a friend and again it's going back to this idea of like i saw a friend play it and because i'm watching the friend play it it's you know it's not as scary because i know they are the ones in control and if you know they mess up it's like the consequences are going on them but as soon as they turn around and say do you want a shot it's just like nope nope nope all right buddy
00:14:52
Speaker
because I mean like before we kind of go on I remember and I only thought this was like a year or two ago but it must have been a lot longer when you and I had like a night where we played like just solely horror games and it really was a good night because we went through amnesia just a bit of amnesia mind you Emily wants to play that was terrifying Five Nights at Freddy's I can't remember what the other one did we get on to another one
00:15:22
Speaker
Do we play Slender or something? Oh yeah we did. Yeah we did play Slender and it was weird because it was like when I was watching you play it was almost like I was kind of sitting back thinking he'll be fine you'll be fine Adam will be fine he's great and then as soon as you're like right if your turn I've died I was like oh baby Jesus Joseph
00:15:44
Speaker
I don't want to do this anymore. My body memory is of you playing Emily. Emily wants to play. I can't remember what happens, but I think it wasn't the first creepy doll appears. My body memory is of you going to the nearest cupboard and closing the door. I live here now. Pro tip, that doesn't work in the game. I thought it would, but it's not phasmophobia. It won't work.
00:16:12
Speaker
Yeah, surprisingly so. But yeah, that was a terrifying game though. And speaking of terrifying, that actually brings me on to my next point of what actually makes a good horror game?
Elements of Effective Horror Games
00:16:24
Speaker
What would you say? It's a good question and it's a tricky one as well. I was trying to think about, I was trying to think this way and I was like, what do I think is like the keys to making a great horror game?
00:16:36
Speaker
Because I know it, sorry, I was just going to say, I know it's like, it's quite a subject, it's almost like humour, it's like a very subjective thing about what people find scary.
00:16:47
Speaker
You're totally right. I think you've actually hit the nail on the head there. Like it is such a subjective thing. Um, so again, this is just my, this is personally for me. And again, this might not apply to everybody, but for me, I think the number one thing you have to nail if you want to make a, an effective horror game is you got to get the atmosphere. That was what I was thinking when I thought the games, the horror games I've really enjoyed and ones I found really scary. They've all had a great atmosphere that really puts you on edge, makes you feel like, and like,
00:17:15
Speaker
gets you you know gets the adrenaline going and gets you ready to like be be scooped and everything so if that'll be the one that I would I would say nail that and you're well on your way. No I'd definitely agree as I said like I never used to play like a lot of horror games when I was younger obviously but kind of going into it now especially last month when I started playing like week after week of
00:17:40
Speaker
scary games it kind of built up like a standard it almost felt like going through like X's almost it's like it was like I would play one game like Outlast and then I would finish with it and then the next week I would like be playing Little Nightmares and I'd be like you're not like Outlast Outlast had jump scares what do you have?
00:18:04
Speaker
And it was like, each game is like, I definitely think like each horror game seems to be trying something different. But I think definitely the tension building is very important. But I think if there's too much build up and no payoff,
00:18:23
Speaker
I do think that's a bit disappointing but I think it's probably an argument that can be applied to a lot of them but it's like if you have too much excess of one thing like if you have too many jump scares like Five Nights at Freddy's for example the first couple of times you play it really like you're on the edge of your seat you're like oh what's gonna come what's gonna come
00:18:46
Speaker
and then as soon as you get like jump scared you do jump and think oh my goodness that was scary and then the second time you play it same reaction oh it's scary but by about the third or fourth time you're just sitting there like all right hey hey Freddy yeah exactly yeah because I remember we were playing it and your reaction was something along the lines of like I think you got jump scared and you just went oh for goodness sake
00:19:17
Speaker
And I was just like, I can blame you, because I definitely felt the same way. It almost got boring. And I have to admit, although it's not a bad horror game, I felt like that recently when I was playing through Until Dawn. Which is a good horror game, but I felt as if some of the jump scares were just like, they would pop up as if, ooh, look at me. And I was like, yeah, you're a ghost.
00:19:44
Speaker
You know, there was no real payoff for that. To make a tutorial game, you kind of have to have that balance. You have to have the tension building, but then you have to have some kind of payoff to that. But if you have too much of one or the other, you're just going to get bored.
00:20:08
Speaker
No, sorry, I was just going to say, like, I definitely think as well, like, just, I agree with everything that you're saying. And I think that the other key thing I'd say is pacing as well. Like, which is basically, you need to get that pacing of you want the build up, you know, you want the stuff, but you want like, you want those big moments as well where you get that release and stuff. Yeah. So finding that balance is key. And as you say, if you go too far in one direction, then, you know, it's just gonna, it's gonna leave you unsatisfied. So yeah, I just totally agree.
00:20:35
Speaker
But speaking of a good horror game, this brings us onto our next bit, where you and I were discussing this actually, well, before the stream, about our top three horror games, which I have to admit, I had to go rummaging through the old memory bank thinking, which game spooked me the most?
Adam's Top Horror Game: Observer
00:20:56
Speaker
But yeah, before I go on to ramble about it, do you want to kick off with your first three?
00:21:02
Speaker
Again, when you ask me this question, my mind went straight to this one and I was like, yeah, this is the one I have to put on the list because I would probably rate it as the scariest game I've played. And again, it's a subjective thing. So, you know, like, again, maybe other people might not find it as scary, but for me, this was truly frightening. And that was Observer, which was released in 2017 by Blooper Team, who did games like Layers of Fear and they did that Blair Witch game recently.
00:21:30
Speaker
But this was like this was I think their middle game observer and basically it's kind of Blade Runner is Blade Runner esque like it's very much that Blade Runner kind of dystopian sci-fi cyberpunk future world and set in 28 excuse me sorry set in 2084 and basically you play as this character who's a police detective but he's an observer
00:21:51
Speaker
which basically means someone who can hack into people's minds as a method of interrogation. And that's a key part of the game, is him hacking into people's minds to find key memories and everything. And basically, he gets this call from his estranged son, which leads him to this tenement building in the slums of a set in Krakow, Poland. And he gets sent to this tenement building in the slums. And basically, as he arrives, the building goes into lockdown.
00:22:20
Speaker
he finds has been this like series of murders throughout the building and there's the killer still on the loose and that's kind of where it is so it's like a kind of mystery exploration game and it's very much kind of akin to what Looper Team does which is
00:22:33
Speaker
The game is sort of a kind of walking simulator, but it has gameplay elements as well. It's not like something like DRS or something. There is gameplay added to it. But what really scared me about the game and what I think it did, maybe the best I've seen of any horror game was, as I was saying, the atmosphere. I never felt comfortable. I never felt at ease the whole time I played it. It's not a hugely long game. It's maybe about five, six hours probably, clocks in something like that.
00:23:01
Speaker
which I think is the ideal limb for a horror game, because there was no point during that whole time I was playing it that I ever felt comfortable, that I ever felt like I could walk through blocks and stuff, so the tension was always there, so I was permanently on edge. It also has an achievement as well, where it has an achievement for you not to die during the whole game, so I was extra on edge to make sure I was trying to play it again. I just had to play it at once.
00:23:25
Speaker
I won't give any spoilers for the story, but I'm going to give a minor kind of gameplay spoiler. So if anybody want to play it, they can use it for like, I don't know, maybe the next minute or something, 30 seconds or whatever. What I think it did really well is there's actually only a couple of points in the game where you're actually in danger of dying.
00:23:44
Speaker
but I never knew when they were. I had no clue when. So that's what kept me on edge for the whole thing, which I thought was a really good example of pacing in that sense that like, okay, most of the time you were actually fine, but like you just, I had no idea when. So I've never felt comfortable.
00:24:00
Speaker
the visuals are great like um for me like one weird thing that i find really scary is like kind of static and kind of jump cut images um i don't know why but some of that really like puts me on edge and there's a lot of that because there's a lot of kind of cyberpunk like you know
00:24:17
Speaker
because you're like a lot of implants and stuff, your vision starts to crackle at points and then there's a lot of static and stuff. And like images all like popping, especially when you're like inside people's minds or living their memories, things will just pop around. So that really like set me on edge as well. And the sound is great. Like the ambient noise is just perfect for that kind of like, you're in this old building and it's creaking and then there's other kind of like electronic, like, you know, like noises and everything that put you on edge.
00:24:44
Speaker
And as I said, I think it was the perfect length of game. I didn't ever get that way of moving over from terror to kind of getting used to things or becoming frustrated. So for me, it's the one that I think that is probably the most terrifying game I've ever played. And I think it's great. So that was the one for me. I was like, yep, that's my number one. That's one I have to add onto the backlog. Because honestly, I think it's not on Game Pass just now.
00:25:11
Speaker
It is actually on Game Pass. Yeah, I'm good. I need to shout that out then, because it does. Like from what you've said, it sounds... Well, it sounds great, but it sounds terrifying. So now you've put me in like a dilemma. It's funny saying that, because again, you might play it and be like, I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, I jumped a couple times. It's not that scary. So I don't know whether it just hit the perfect amount of things that frighten me. Yeah. Don't frighten anybody else. So it could be that. But for me, I absolutely can. I rate it very highly.
00:25:41
Speaker
just trying to think for my one or at least for my first one. So the way I chose mine, I think I chose mine a wee bit different because I was thinking of games like O'Hora games that I've kind of played in depth because I mean I played Resident Evil and
00:25:57
Speaker
like bits of Silent Hill and things like that but I've I mean it was like years ago and like I don't think I would do it just this by saying oh it's the top game and it's like how long have you played it and so I'd be like oh I only played five minutes and then it crashed my PC that's beside the point
00:26:14
Speaker
So basically I've chosen a couple of games that I've done on stream or that I've played really recently.
Outlast: Immersive Horror Experience
00:26:22
Speaker
So my first one definitely has to be Outlast. And again, this is a game that I watched other YouTubers play years and years ago. And obviously watching them, it was like
00:26:34
Speaker
you did kind of jump with them but at the same time you knew you were kind of protected it was like that third layer it's like yo you've got the game then you've got the player and then behind that you've got the person watching over the shoulder and because it was them like taking the brunt of you know screaming and shouting into the camera
00:26:52
Speaker
it was like oh that's fine but actually having to play it put me on the edge of my seat because i thought the first outlast game so just to kind of recap on what the game is about just in case any of you haven't played it it's basically you're a reporter who gets a tip that something's going on in this you know creepy asylum it's like the standards set up for this horror game and as you go through the
00:27:18
Speaker
like Asylum, there's just all these horrors, you know, a lot of gore, a lot of violence, and you basically learn more as you descend into the depths of the Asylum. I have to admit, it's not the perfect horror game, but it had a lot of moments. So I played it for four hours straight, and depending on what kind of game,
00:27:41
Speaker
like you play like what kind of horror game you're playing sometimes that can be like a really that can really help or it can be a definite endurance like for example i played condemned criminal origins in one sitting and i think that definitely detracted from the experience because by the end of it i was just getting tired so every jump scare was it wasn't really hitting as well
00:28:04
Speaker
but when they came to Outlast it was like I was on the edge of my seat and I don't think it helped that the chat as well were like spamming a lot of the like sound commands so every time I ran round the corner I was jumping from that as well and I think it's probably my second like loudest scream
00:28:22
Speaker
that I've ever had and like on stream of course the loudest being me screaming at Steven and phasmophobia but I will get to that but I think the good thing about Outlast is it nearly has that perfect balance of
00:28:38
Speaker
having the horror aspect where you see all the horrible things going on but the tension as well so you basically always have this feeling that you're being watched and you have like somebody stalking you throughout the asylum and I think it's a really good game until
00:28:54
Speaker
the very end like see right at the very end i think it just it kind of loses its spookiness personally because it starts to go into a more paranormal territory like for me personally and i was saying this to you off stream as well adam that for me realistic horror is a lot more spooky than like paranormal i don't know what it is but it's just
00:29:17
Speaker
yeah in fact i'll come to that later pretty much when we're talking about like our own experiences with horror games but before like obviously we get on to that Adam do you want to give your second one before i keep rambling i certainly will
00:29:32
Speaker
Outlast is a good choice, a choice one by the way. My second one, and actually it wasn't one that came to my mind first of all, but the more I thought about it, the more I was like, yeah, no, that creeps me out and it still does. And that is Bioshock, already mentioned it as my first proper kind of horror game, but yeah, Bioshock, which I think 2007 I think was when it was released, Irrational Games. So yeah, so basically kind of synopsis.
00:29:59
Speaker
He's set in 1960. He plays this character called Jack. Basically, he's on a plane flying, I think it's from America to the UK or something like that. Basically, his plane crashes in the Atlantic. Basically, he survives the plane crash and he discovers this lighthouse which turns out, sitting just in the middle of the Atlantic, which turns out to be this kind of terminus to this underwater city called Rapture.
00:30:23
Speaker
and basically set you built by this business magnate called Andrew Ryan and basically it's this kind of utopia for societies elite basically in his words to flourish outside of government control and petty morality and but basically like so it was a utopia for a good few years but then the discovery of this genetic material called Adam maybe that's also why I like the game yeah
00:30:45
Speaker
ability to grant like superhuman powers and to people like basically leads the city like civil war and the city's like decline rapid decline basically went on once you arrive the city's like falling apart and basically every most people left in the city are these crazed inhabitants called splicers and basically you kind of need to like fight your way through them to kind of find their way out
00:31:09
Speaker
What really scared me about it, again, I think it does atmosphere brilliantly. It's really unsettling. There's always this kind of eerie calm around a lot of it, but it really makes you feel relaxed or safe. You're always on edge about the environment. Again, I think just the rapture itself, I think is one of the best probably environments I think I've seen in gaming and just the way it's like decaying and falling apart. But you can still see it's previous grandeur.
00:31:37
Speaker
but the way it's kind of been corrupted, there's a particular bit called Fort Frolic. You haven't played the original one, have you? I think I've played a little bit of it. Enough to be spooked. I won't say too much, but there's an environment called Fort Frolic, which I think is about halfway through the game, about that point, which is just unsettling to the extreme, but also one of the greatest environments as well, so memorable.
00:32:03
Speaker
the enemies are great because they're all like they look so messed up and they're like shrieking at you and that you can just hear how crazy they are and even like the kind of characters who aren't like sort of splicers they're all memorable a lot of them are really creepy as well and the sound is great and
00:32:20
Speaker
One thing I'll say is that I do think the horror element, and again, I don't know if this one counts as a classic horror, because again, you could say it's more of a kind of like shooter, again, maybe a more kind of action-y one, but I think it is horror, but I definitely think the horror diminishes as the game goes on, because your character gets more powerful, and you know, a lot more of these, what's called plasmids, which kind of give you these kinds of superhuman powers, get more powerful weapons, so it does diminish after a while.
00:32:46
Speaker
you kind of get used to the enemies but like certainly for the first half i think it's terrifying and i just have like there's so many episodes there's just so many like little scenes i remember from my first playthrough bio shop just absolutely like making me yell making me scream like
00:33:01
Speaker
It's definitely one of my favourite horror games. I'm just trying to remember the last time I played. It must have been a good while ago, because I remember everybody raving about Bioshock and saying, oh, it's an amazing game and everything. And I was like, oh, I might give it a go. And then I saw a lot of the clips from it.
00:33:27
Speaker
them where it's like the splice of shadows and like things are running across like the darkened hallways and immediately my head was just like nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope absolutely no way no no no
00:33:42
Speaker
But yeah, I suppose keeping on the kind of water theme, I suppose my second choice would definitely have to be, and for a different reason to Outlast, would probably have to be Little Nightmares.
Little Nightmares: Unique Atmosphere
00:33:54
Speaker
I think Little Nightmares, so basically
00:33:57
Speaker
it's kind of hard to explain. It's almost like a Tim Burton nightmare where it's all stylised and there's so much of it that's so weird and out there that it kind of draws you in and makes you really interested. Like there's a lot of moments where you kind of, you panic a little bit but I think where I last built like this combination of both terror and you know atmosphere, obviously it works to its favour but I feel as if
00:34:27
Speaker
little nightmares really draws and trying to build like a good atmosphere. You're walking through you see like relics of or like belongings that passengers have left behind you see rooms that have been built up but there's no one in them and then when you actually see what's on the ship itself you're basically running for your life so basically you play I don't even know what it is but basically it's like a really small
00:34:55
Speaker
like person that runs around and there's all these giants on the ship that as soon as they spot you they just go right for you and because the designs are so like weird again it kind of falls into this like idea of being helpless and not being able to fight back so there's probably a theme about the games I'm liking here but as it's like it's feeling kind of helpless that you can't fight back against these things
00:35:21
Speaker
you can outwit them yeah you can like hide and outwit them and do things like that but when it comes to actually you know being able to pull out a gun or something like that it's not on the table like it kind of often a tangent but I always remember years ago when the Slender Man game was really popular and I remember someone had like created a video where it was like this is the way you're supposed to defeat the Slender Man so this guy running around and he grabs the page
00:35:50
Speaker
and he turned round and the slender man's like behind him and he does the jump scare thing but instead of it like ending someone edited like I think it was like one of the colleges to overlays where it was like someone bringing out the sniper rifle and then just shooting them and then the video just cut out and obviously like with that you know because they played it up for laughs and things like that made it instantly like no longer scary
00:36:18
Speaker
But being in that situation and not having the option to kind of goof around, it did not help, I have to say. So definitely Little Nightmares was definitely. Like in the games that I've played recently, it's definitely my second favourite. Even though there's like some moments after that that I kind of think could have been done better. Yeah no, I liked it, I have to say.
00:36:40
Speaker
It's a good one, that one. I think in terms of enemy sound, that little nightmare's definitely the one for me that creeps me out the most. It's the way all the enemies just either squeal at you or... Oh yeah. Yeah, that is a good choice, that one. So yeah, for your final one, I'm actually quite curious to hear what your final one is, because I think you might have told me, but I've forgotten already. Ooh, I'm surprised. Well, hopefully he doesn't turn to being like, you're like, what?
00:37:10
Speaker
Yes, so my third one. Now, again, I don't think I don't think this is a perfect horror game. And I'll explain a little bit more about it, but I had to put it on here because I know I said observer was the scariest game I've ever played. But a good like,
00:37:26
Speaker
at least a quarter of this game, probably a little bit more, has been the most terrified I've ever been playing a video game. So it had to go on the list just for that. And it's Alien Isolation of 2014 by Creative Assembly, who I believe are the people who most fans are doing the Total War games. But let me tell you, they made a terrifying horror game here.
Alien Isolation's AI-Driven Terror
00:37:48
Speaker
And yeah, so basically it's set 15 years after the events of the original Alien film. And you play as Amanda Ripley, who's Ellen Ripley's daughter, like the main character in the Alien films. And basically she travels, sorry, Amanda travels to the Sevastopol space station, basically to investigate the disappearance of her mother. I think they find like, I think it's something like the Nostromo's like flight recorder is like recovered at the Sevastopol station. So she travels there to discover it. And yeah,
00:38:16
Speaker
you know, yada, yada, yada, an alien gets let loose in the station. So the reason it scared me so much, and it's already down to basically one reason here, and it's the alien itself, and basically the way it's AI and the way it's developed, and actually like, it's such an impressive, I did actually acquire a bit of research just on the alien itself, and its AI is actually fascinating. If you're interested in that kind of game design or stuff, it's really interesting to
00:38:42
Speaker
to kind of read and hear about like how the alien was programmed and why it reacts the way it does and but like and the game I think does a really good job of like kind of controlling kind of tension levels in that like again it makes that way of making you feel really uneasy and like really frightened but it never really feels that cheap like and it never kind of feels like unfair
00:39:05
Speaker
It's also quite terrifying that the alien, as the game progresses, the alien learns from stuff you've been doing. You never know quite what it's learned. So for instance, if you hide in a lot of, if the alien spots you and you run away and you manage to hide, you can hide in lockers or you can hide under tables and things like that, climb into vents and stuff. So if you start doing a lot of that, the alien will learn and it will start to adapt a bit more so it might start looking in lockers or something like that. But you're never quite sure when it's learned that.
00:39:34
Speaker
or like, you know, war plant. So really, you're never quite sure, like, as it goes. And I think a big thing as well is that, like, the alien, like, you can't kill the, apparently it does have a health bar, but there's, like, no chance that you could ever, like, kill it. So, like, no way of, like, killing it. It's always gonna be there. But you have the ability to defend yourself. If you have, like, a flamethrower, you can, like, fight it off and stuff. So it gives you, like, it does give you some fighting chance, and it kind of makes you really, like, rely on your wits and kind of plan ahead.
00:40:04
Speaker
as well like there was a there was a great sort of phrase that the developers use when they were describing what they wanted the alien like to do and things and they used this term that I thought was great was psychopathic serendipity and the idea is that basically
00:40:19
Speaker
the aliens always going to find itself in the right place at the right time. So if you're doing like key mission kind of objectives, it's always going to find itself in the kind of area to make it difficult for you. But it's not going to be that cheap way of it instantly know where you are, and come take you out, but it'll be around that area to mess with you and you know, really make you plan and think what you're going to do.
00:40:40
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:55
Speaker
It's interesting. It has two levels of kind of AI. The alien has its own sort of micro AI, but there's a kind of macro AI as well. So basically, the kind of macro AI notes where the alien and where the player is. And basically, and so what the kind of macro AI will do is it pushes the alien towards the player, but it never exactly tells the alien where it is. So the alien's kind of micro AI has to find you using the sensors that were built into it. It's a very clever system.
00:41:20
Speaker
And yeah, I found the first couple encounters with the alien, I couldn't function. I could not function.
00:41:26
Speaker
I lost all my ability to play video games and I was just running around screaming. I got so terrified at one point that like I walked into a room and there's a little stress toy on a bench or something. I freaked out. I was like, oh, you know, flinging the camera. I was like crazy. And I realized the stress toy does it. Oh, thank goodness. And then the alien walked around the corner and then I freaked out all over again. Yeah, it was absolutely terrifying.
00:41:53
Speaker
And like, but I must say, like, I think for as good as that initial part is the game is too long. It's far too long. And it was one of these things that it lost. I lost my terror every time I became frustrated because we were talking about like, I just became, I became annoyed. It became angry. I don't think some of the, the later parts of the game were like designed that well. I think it becomes a bit too, like it loses that kind of cleverness and comes a bit cheap.
00:42:18
Speaker
But yeah, but like there's kind of other enemies in the game as well as some humans and some androids and they kind of can jump scare you, but it's not really like the same. So like, again, I don't think it's a perfect horror game, but just for those just for that first part, like and how just crippled it made me put it on the list.
00:42:38
Speaker
I suppose for my final one like I mean first of all I really do need to get around to playing that game because I actually downloaded it for I can't remember what it was we ended up playing in the end but
00:42:54
Speaker
Oh yeah, that was it. It was just, I think I had asked Twitter at one point whether they wanted me, it was like a co-stream night, and whether they wanted me to play a spooky game or Age of Empires. And it ended up, we played Age of Empires because the poll was stuck at 50-50.
00:43:16
Speaker
But if it had gone to spooky, then definitely would have been the only in isolation. So I don't know whether Twitter saved me that day. You know that moment of, I shouldn't be alive. But yeah, oh god, I do need to add that though. But yeah, so for my final one, I'm gonna go for one that's definitely terrified me and has made me scream on stream multiple times.
Phasmophobia: Unpredictable Horror Encounters
00:43:45
Speaker
That being Sonic 06. The one I would have to go for as I said before I was thinking what kind of game could I have like as my third one and initially I thought of something like Gears of War because of the horror aspects
00:44:02
Speaker
But then as we were saying, can we include that? I thought of Resident Evil and Silent Hill, but I've not played enough of them. So I was kind of like, I don't know. So the one that I've gone for, and I feel as if it still has a long way to go, is Phasmophobia. And in terms of story, and I mean you've seen it as well, haven't you? Yeah, I've seen bits and I've had the pleasure of playing alongside you. Yeah, no, definitely. It is a terrifying game.
00:44:32
Speaker
basically there's no real... there's not really much of a story it's just very situational it just throws you right in saying right you're a paranormal investigator there's a ghost in that house or farmhouse or school or asylum wherever go get it and you're just like wait what what the can you teach us and then it's like they teach you and i remember like i remember doing the tutorial and i was just like huh
00:45:01
Speaker
I did the tutorial and I was like, I've still got no idea what this game's about. So I was like, it's definitely one of those games that is a lot better. See if you just throw yourself into it and just start playing it and kind of learning it for yourself. But I kid you not, I have never felt so much apprehension or terror. Just by the first few minutes of walking into a house,
00:45:27
Speaker
and then just listening to this ambient, it's not even music, it's like this ambient noise. As soon as you step, like take one step into the house, that's what you're hit with. And it's like that kind of dreads as if you are in a horror film. And it's almost as if you forget it's a game. Like you're walking around thinking, oh God, I hope nothing like pops out. And obviously once you start playing it and you start dying a couple of times,
00:45:55
Speaker
then it's alright, it becomes like another video game but those first few moments when you don't want to be hit by this ghost and I think that's the good thing as well with it is the fact that you can go around and the ghost types are switched up so you never really know what's going to happen so you've got pretty much a set time to find out what the hell you're dealing with
00:46:20
Speaker
but at the same time you've got to make sure that what you're doing is right otherwise you're either gonna get killed or yeah otherwise you're gonna be able to hopefully find out what the hell's haunting you and it is it's just I think personally it builds up such a good atmosphere because I remember the first time I played it I played it with my friend Sade who I remember you played it with him didn't you?
00:46:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe like a couple of weeks after or something, I think. I think it must have been, yeah. And I mean, that was like, it's a really fun game with friends. I think that, if you're playing with friends, it alleviates it a little bit. But definitely, it's like that dread and that build-up. Other often than that, like, I feel as if they could, I know it's a game that's like an early alpha.
00:47:09
Speaker
Which, I have to admit, there's a lot in it I really like, but then there's some bits where you're walking through and you look at something and you go, yeah, they could have buffed that out. Especially with the death animations, they're all the same.
00:47:29
Speaker
like it's just a couple of hands that come behind you and then they go into your eyes and then that's like you're dead and everything. I mean there's like a lot of potential there and there definitely is that they could go places with it so I'm quite excited to see after that like where they go with it before I start so sorry just before we move on to the last bit.
00:47:51
Speaker
Yeah, like I think the most that I've ever been scared of that game Was it wasn't even a ghost it was this is how terrified I was So we had to explore this and I think it was a high school like an American high school and it was myself and my friend said and it's banks who of course you're in the chat and we basically
00:48:16
Speaker
we went in and I was in this room alone because the briefing basically said you have to go in this, you have to draw out by being in the room alone so I was like oh great that's perfect so I ended up somehow getting volunteered so I walked in I said its name a couple of times and then I saw like both of them come in the door but it was kind of poor timing on their part because
00:48:46
Speaker
say to use so as a function you can use if you hold in V you can use like it projects your voice in the game and if you haven't got the person muted then it makes like a huge echo so i was in the room i was terrified i was looking around thinking what's going on as the um
00:49:05
Speaker
as a ghost here and then said said the ghost's name and I turned round and I saw like two things at once I saw Stephen coming in like into the room and then I also saw a plant pot beside him and I think in that like moment like that haze like I blurred the two images together and I thought it was the ghost and honestly like I just screamed my head off like just that one
00:49:33
Speaker
And then as soon as I realised what had happened, I was just like, oh, damn. I was honestly terrified after playing Phasmo. It's a game that I definitely haven't felt as much fear for a game until Phasmophobia, I have to say. So I mean, props to Phasmo. It's going to be great what they actually do with it.
00:50:03
Speaker
Sorry, it's actually a terrifying game. I thought about including it, but I knew you were going to talk about it, so I thought I'll include something different. But I think it's a real strength of it that it remains scary even as you play with others. Generally, I think that's the rule, isn't it? Things get less scary if you have other people with you.
00:50:23
Speaker
But yeah, no, I think phasma is terrifying and well again, there's a you're saying he's responsible for a big scream from you It's also responsible for a big scream for me on stream when again, I got murdered in that high school Crawling one and so yes a terrifying game. So yeah, totally agree. No, it's I love it, but I hear that There's a bittersweet relationship with that game you want to have that dual feeling of it though. I
00:50:49
Speaker
Oh, totally, yeah. You want it to leave an impact. I mean, I have to admit, like, it kind of went back to what I was saying about when I was playing Until Dawn. Great game. And it does build up a lot of atmosphere. But there was a lot of moments in that where there was a lot of jump scares and things. And it didn't really faze me.
00:51:12
Speaker
like usually like jump scares get me like I'm terrible for jumping at any jump scare but when it came to those it's like I kind of saw them and I was like all right hi ghost or hi whatever you know it was just yeah whereas with phasmo it was like because there was that lingering fear I think it was because until dawn there's like a very different game it's very fast paced
00:51:39
Speaker
and it's the fact they're just like throwing things at you constantly that you kind of get desensitized as you go along.
00:51:45
Speaker
Whereas, yeah, with Phasmo, it's like right off the bat, as soon as you take one step in, the ghost is like, ooh, I'm gonna get you. And you're like, please don't get me, Mr. Ghost. Oh my God. Great game though, 10 out of 10. Would recommend, and you can buy it on Steam. I wish I was being sponsored by them. So yeah, like going on to the final point, and this is definitely gonna be a very, very subjective point here.
Designing Horror Games: Key Elements
00:52:16
Speaker
But yeah, this is something we were discussing before about how we would make our own horror game.
00:52:24
Speaker
I don't know if you want to start. Yeah, I'll start. Again, I totally agree with you. Like, you know, advisory, advisory notes, it's like it's subjective, you know, as horror. So again, this might not be like everybody thinks that would be scary. But certainly for me, like, again, I'm just going to say atmosphere. It's got to have atmosphere. I think that's like that's like the bedrock of any successful horror game. It's just an atmosphere that makes you unsettled, like,
00:52:53
Speaker
makes you tense, gets the kind of adrenaline going and just gets you ready for spook. So that would be the number one thing I say. Nell the atmosphere. Yeah. No, I totally agree with that. I think in any game, and I mean, it's the same in any genre, but definitely, especially for horror, there has to be some kind of atmosphere and build up. Like,
00:53:13
Speaker
I always remember years ago, and this is going back years and years ago, when all the prominent YouTubers nowadays, like all the Let's players, were doing the horror game stints. So they were going through it outlast, they were going through, not outlast, well, outlast as well.
00:53:29
Speaker
were doing like amnesia and all of that and there was one of the youtubers who was doing he does like a lot of kind of indie horror games and there was literally this one game where it forced you to walk from one side of a tunnel to the other and the only scares that the creator put in
00:53:50
Speaker
where like these terribly pixelated like jpeg images that would pop up every so often and there would just be a loud scream and I always remember watching this youtube it and usually it was very animated you know going oh it's this or that but see with this video I have never seen someone so bored it's just he was just sitting there like all right all right oh it's a ghost oh no you know and so on and so forth and you're like
00:54:19
Speaker
Ah, poor guy, just, poor guy. But I definitely, I do agree with that, like atmosphere. If you've not got an atmosphere to kind of back up the horror that's to come, then yeah, you've never really got much to stand on. It's almost like the horrors of the horror, the atmospheres like the scaffolding that you're gonna need to go in. I think as well, like if I was making like a horror game as well, there definitely has to be that balance between
00:54:47
Speaker
the terror and the horror aspect. For example, with Outlast, I think in some respects they go a bit too far with the Goron Horror, but I feel as if at the same time when you see some of the horror that's used really sparingly, you see all the hospital beds and you see all the people strapped up, that
00:55:09
Speaker
that as well it builds up the atmosphere but it kind of lets it settle in the idea of oh god you know this is a situation you're helpless you could be like one of these people and I think definitely one of them or one of the major things I would say is there has to be a little bit of like relatability
00:55:32
Speaker
in there, so like you kind of, I feel as if like with all the horror games you have to kind of sympathise with the character you're playing as, whether it's Phasmophobia, whether it's Outlast, Bioshock, you know, it's like at the end of the day it's the developer who, you know, has to make sure that happens.
00:55:53
Speaker
but like if I was making one which don't get me wrong I'm definitely not that talented to make a horror game I'm putting that out there but I can make it like in spirit but not in coding and coding I would probably be the same as that guy who made like the tunnel game where it's just all the screaming and I'd be like but did you jump were you scared and they'd be like
00:56:17
Speaker
No, I'm gonna say no. But yeah, there has to be that kind of relatability as well, because I feel as if you've got a character that you're not relating to, or you can't project your own fears onto what happens to them, then I feel as if it's kind of a losing battle. Because it's like, as I said, without last, with Little Nightmares, there's that idea that you're playing a helpless character, and
00:56:46
Speaker
Yeah, if you're playing a game like that, but they don't nail down the helpless aspect, then it's like, you might as well be playing a game like Left 4 Dead. Yeah. Where it's like, yeah, you might as well give the kid from Little Nightmares, you know, a gun. And that would solve his issues, you know? Which would be a very terrifyingly interesting game. True. It's true. Somebody mod it quickly.
00:57:12
Speaker
That is true. I bet you someone probably has modded it. I wouldn't be surprised if they had, if I'm honest. Oh, goodness me. Is there any other points you would say?
00:57:24
Speaker
One thing I think as well, I think a sense of danger, and this is kind of what I talked about with Observer, in that you don't want the game to be cheap, and that you don't want it to be just like, you just get killed, and you're like, oh, you don't know how, why, and it becomes frustrating. But I think a good sense of danger, where perhaps there are certainly certain points where you are actually in danger of dying, but it's never clear. It's never clear where they are.
00:57:46
Speaker
i think that was something for me i think as well like i think having challenging enemies in the sense of having again enemies that aren't cheap but enemies that like it's not like kind of like left for dead zombies where you can just mow them down like you know having enemies like that that do kind of challenge you something like um like the alien in alien isolation or um or some like oh forgot another example now but some but enemies like that they kind of some of the ones in outlast as well that kind of force you to like
00:58:15
Speaker
do different kind of things and require you to be a bit more kind of like thoughtful and planning about what you're going to do. And I think the last point I would say is I think length is key. I do think a horror game should be relatively short. Oh, absolutely. The more time you get to become accustomed to things and it just loses, it kind of loses the, you know, what made it like so scary and so special to begin with. So I definitely say length as a final key point.
00:58:39
Speaker
Yeah, no, I definitely agree with that. I think especially being able to play like horror games on stream recently. So the main examples like Without Last Stand, Little Nightmares, those were the first two like horror games that I really played on stream and I finished them both in about four hours give or take.
00:58:58
Speaker
and I thought that was relatively all right, that was an all right stint. But then a plane condemned criminal origins which granted I did get stuck it there was like a level where you had to go in and you had to like solve like this random riddle which is ironic because I was saying
00:59:19
Speaker
I was saying to the chat at the time, oh this game's great but I wish they focused more on the threatened sex aspect of it. So basically, sorry just kind of a quick recap, it's just basically a game where you're an ex FBI agent trying to clear his name and you have to go through all these like spooky scenarios to try and find like the real killer and everything. Really really well done at the first half of the game but I feel as if with the second half of the game I was just getting bored of it.
00:59:46
Speaker
Like I was just getting really sick a certain moment and then at the end it just goes like right over the top and I feel as if at that stage, I think I completed that in about six hours but I mean that's on me for like just sitting there and completing that in a six hour stint. With other games though I do agree I think that it definitely in terms of length and pacing as well.
01:00:09
Speaker
I do think they are very important for it, because you always want to keep the audience's attention, if you know what I mean. You want to make sure that they're engaged, but you're not throwing things at them all the time. Because otherwise it is, it's just going to get boring. And yeah, I do agree with that as well. So yeah, definitely. Atmosphere, length and pacing. The three ones are nailed down. Yeah, definitely.
01:00:38
Speaker
And you'll be able to win it? Definitely, yeah. So, if there's any game developers out there, yep. Don't take my advice, but take... Take that. Just for free, damn it. Yeah, that is true. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. A horror gift horse. Well, they are horror games, but terrible in business. That is very true. But yeah, no, thank you so much, Adam, for joining me again. You OK for having me? Yeah, no problem.