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What Kate Did + The 23rd Psalm Recap
8 Plays4 days ago
Kate’s dark secret is revealed in ‘What Kate Did,’ as her past crime comes to light and her bond with Sawyer deepens. In ‘The 23rd Psalm,’ we shift to Mr. Eko’s backstory, uncovering his violent past and his surprising path to faith. Our uncle reflects on how these episodes challenged fan perceptions, while Nick shares his first impressions of Kate’s choices and Eko’s haunting story. Meanwhile, the island grows more mysterious with whispers, visions, and the Smoke Monster.
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Transcript
Introduction: Hosts and Premise
00:00:21
Speaker
Terrific. You're listening to the Lost with My Uncle podcast. I'm Aaron DS and I'll be rewatching Lost along with my nephew Nick who will be watching it for the very first time.
00:00:37
Speaker
So come along with us and enjoy the journey.
00:00:42
Speaker
Let's get lost. Let's get lost.
Character Secrets and Improbabilities
00:00:51
Speaker
What's going on Lost fans? Welcome in. Thought do a little bit of a different intro today. But welcome back to the Lost with My Uncle podcast. I am Aaron DS, one of your co-hosts and the proud millennial who's re-watching Lost.
00:01:09
Speaker
And I'm Nick, the Gen Z nephew, experiencing all of these fun theories for the first time.
00:01:19
Speaker
And dude, we're hitting some heavy territory here tonight with these episodes. Kate's dark secret finally gets revealed, and we dive into Mr. Echo's past. So, how are you holding up with all these character reveals?
00:01:32
Speaker
Uh... You know what? I'm starting to realize... everyone on this island has done something terrible. At some point in their lives, they have done something terrible.
00:01:43
Speaker
You know, like, what are the odds that every single person on the island, every single person on a plane, and the plane crashes, has a dark secret?
Listener Engagement Invitation
00:01:57
Speaker
Yeah. And I love that you brought up odds, because that comes up in one of the episodes tonight as well.
00:02:05
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's lost for you. The island seems to collect broken people. So we will see where that's headed.
00:02:14
Speaker
As always, we love hearing your feedback, listeners. Feel free to send us your comments, questions, theories. It's lostwithmyunclepod at gmail.com. Again, that's lostwithmyunclepod at gmail.com.
00:02:28
Speaker
Ready to get into it Nick? I am so, so ready. All right, let's do this. Let's get lost. Let's do it.
Kate's Troubled Past and Identity
00:02:37
Speaker
So on tonight's podcast, we are covering episodes 9 and 10 of season 2. So we're going to start off with what Kate did.
00:02:46
Speaker
We talked about this last time, kind of gave away what this episode was about and who it centered around. But before we get into the Kate stuff, I love the opening scene where we see Jin and Son come out of their tent in the morning.
00:03:00
Speaker
They're holding each other, kind of staring out at the ocean, looking around on the beach and Hurley comes out of his tent, looks over, smiles, and gives Jenna a big thumbs up. That was hilarious.
00:03:11
Speaker
Yeah. And then Sun looks over to see Saeed digging a grave for Shannon. So we jump from happy to sad and right there, typical lost fashion.
00:03:22
Speaker
And from there, we jump right over to the hatch where Jack is tending to Sawyer, who is still delirious and kind of unconscious throughout this episode. But he's whispering to Jack,
00:03:33
Speaker
of Or I love her. it is so Lost, you know, doing what it does by setting up so many things in such a short amount of time for this episode. And then we transition to the Kate focus of our episode. And Nick, I know you've been waiting since basically episode two of season one.
00:03:52
Speaker
Find out what Kate's big crime was. And we didn't waste any time getting right into it here. So did it live up to your expectations? Yes. i want to i want to say yes ah You were right.
00:04:06
Speaker
This is my... um This has been my favorite Cain episode. Alright. Because I haven't been so, you know, big on them in the past, but definitely um definitely big on the this episode.
00:04:22
Speaker
Nice. So, she killed her stepfather. That's what she did. And it makes a lot of sense. Blowing the house up with him inside of it.
00:04:34
Speaker
It's intense, but I think, you know, it fits the the situation. I was not, especially with with what we've gotten from Kate, where how she um robs a bank um for the keychain, and, um you know, she she was on the run.
00:04:55
Speaker
you would think it's, like, bank-related or money-related. ah Not at all in the murder department. so Yeah, i don't I don't think any of us were expecting that.
00:05:09
Speaker
No.
00:05:11
Speaker
And then the reveal later in the episode that Wayne was actually her biological father makes it even darker. Yeah. And Kate says at one point to a feverish Sawyer, killed him after finding out that he was my biological father because I couldn't bear the fact that he was inside of me.
00:05:34
Speaker
And could I ever be a good person, essentially? So this whole episode was just her struggling with all of that. Yeah.
Mysterious Black Horse: Reality or Guilt?
00:05:41
Speaker
yeah I mean, I think the scene where she's talking to an unconscious Sawyer,
00:05:48
Speaker
thinking he's Wayne, was really creepy, you know, with the with the supernatural aspect and how she says Sawyer and then he doesn't answer and she says Wayne. He kind of moves around in his sleep a little bit.
00:06:03
Speaker
Definitely kept me on the the edge of my seat.
00:06:07
Speaker
Absolutely. And the flashbacks really show how Kate's life kind of spiraled out of control. We see her with her mom at the diner, basically saying goodbye after she murders Wayne.
00:06:19
Speaker
And her mom's like, what did you do? What did you do, Kate? And then in the next flashback, Kate's in line and the marshal comes up behind her and starts making small talk before she turns around. And then he's like, I know you, don't I?
00:06:32
Speaker
And he arrests her. Yeah. Yeah. Her mom giving her up. That's kind of crazy. I mean, that is really crazy. I mean, her own mother going to the going to the marshals and going to the investigators and saying, you know, my daughter did this, especially after how horrible Wayne was to her. I mean, come on.
00:07:00
Speaker
Yeah, that was heartbreaking. Mm hmm.
00:07:05
Speaker
Can we talk about the black horse? Like... We sure can. i I mean, i was I was kind of confused about it all. Kate sees this horse in her flashback when she's running from the police, and then the same horse is on the island.
00:07:22
Speaker
Like, come on. that That can't be real.
00:07:29
Speaker
Or can it... classic lost weirdness and mythologies what's actually going on you know yeah it's almost like the island is somehow connected to everyone's past the horse saves her from the marshal in the flashback and then appears again when she needs to deal with her guilt mm-hmm And then obviously we also had the other final reveal that we talked about.
00:07:58
Speaker
Wayne actually being her dad. So this whole episode is interesting. Obviously the first scene was disturbing where drunk Wayne is coming on to his own daughter. And obviously we find out that he beat her mother.
00:08:12
Speaker
But man, still to take that to a level of murder, pretty crazy reveal.
00:08:19
Speaker
Well, you know, okay. Kate reveals to Sawyer later in the episode, while she thinks he's still unconscious, that she didn't do it for any of those reasons. You know, it was it was because when she found out he was her real dad, she couldn't have no good in her, like you said.
00:08:37
Speaker
So you do the wrong thing and prove that there's no good in you. i don't know. I feel bad for her. And ah and and that might be ah like might be um that might be against popular opinion of you know people being like, oh, I can't believe she did that.
00:08:54
Speaker
You know what? The Marshall said it best in that one flashback. um If that doesn't make you want to kill someone, I don't know what does, is what he said after explaining all the details.
00:09:06
Speaker
And obviously taking it to murder is is far. But... I'm to see where she came from, you know? Like, if she didn't go to her mom and say to her mom, like, what she did, she probably would have gotten away with it.
00:09:25
Speaker
Right. So. Yeah, pretty crazy. Yeah.
Love Triangle Dynamics: Kate, Jack, Sawyer
00:09:33
Speaker
And our on-island Kate-Jack-Sawyer dynamic, or triangle, so to speak, was back in full swing this episode. Even though Sawyer wasn't fully recovered, he's still recovering at the hatch and basically unconscious the whole episode.
00:09:49
Speaker
But let's talk through what happened there because it was pretty intense. Kate's basically pointed herself as Sawyer's caretaker while he's fighting this infection from his gunshot wound. Right, and Jack is trying to be all doctor, but Kate won't really leave him.
00:10:06
Speaker
There's no reason for both them to be there. But there's this tension between them where Jack wants to help. He's a doctor, but Kate is his protector.
00:10:18
Speaker
And that also feeds into the triangle bit where Jack is not jealous, but confused. And we kind of see that a little later, too.
00:10:30
Speaker
And Sawyer all of a sudden grabs Kate in one of the moments where Jack leaves her alone with him, grabs her by the neck and says, why did you kill me? And so that was one those moments where it was almost like Sawyer was channeling Wayne in some weird way.
00:10:48
Speaker
so Kate runs off into the jungle. Jack comes back with Locke and finds Sawyer on the floor. He runs after her, confronts her. And then, of course, it ends up leading to a kiss between Jack and Kate.
00:10:59
Speaker
So, so many things to unpack. But what in the world, Nick? What is your final stance what was going on with Wayne and Sawyer and the Black Stallion this episode?
00:11:11
Speaker
Okay, so this is one of those, you know what this felt like? And this is the best way that I can describe it. this Kate episode felt like a season one lost episode.
00:11:24
Speaker
I don't know why think about it that way, but I think season one leaned a little bit more into the supernatural. Yeah. While season two, as right now,
00:11:36
Speaker
is leaning a little bit more into, I don't want the reality because, you know, it's not, but we're getting a lot more answers. And, you know, like season one was all about like, you know, like the boar that from the outlaws episode, you know, with Sawyer and how that was representative of whatever.
00:11:53
Speaker
Yeah. And this horse, also representative of whatever, where we have this similar thing, like, even from the, I don't remember what the episode is, the second John Locke episode, think it is, where Boone gets trapped under the plane.
00:12:07
Speaker
And we have that almost flash dream from Locke where, you know, we have Therese falls up the stairs, Therese falls down the stairs. Just very season one-esque. And I think this episode followed that season one-esque, at least this episode, because feel like we didn't really get a ton of answers from this episode.
00:12:23
Speaker
We did from next episode, but this episode at least, you know, no, we didn't get anything, you know, from it. But going back to the original question,
00:12:36
Speaker
I was freaked out about the Wayne thing, especially him shooting up all out of the blue. And I wonder if that was actually what happened or if Kate just imagined it because she's going crazy and she's a little delirious.
00:12:50
Speaker
That's what I was wondering myself, yeah. Later, she has this conversation with Sawyer. She thinks she's talking to Wayne. And Sawyer wakes up and he's like,
00:13:03
Speaker
who's Wayne? You know? And he's like, he's all like, we saved? Where am I? You know? Like, and I mean, that was, that was a great moment.
00:13:14
Speaker
I loved, I loved that part of the episode and it made me, it made me appreciate Sawyer even more. I mean, like, I seriously, the more I'm getting into it, I feel like for some of these characters, you kind of have to lean into them.
00:13:29
Speaker
Like, like, you know, I didn't, I wasn't a really big fan of Sawyer at the start. But if I, like, I lean into the kind of character that he is, understand lot more and I like him a lot more.
00:13:42
Speaker
So. Sure. Yeah. The triangle dynamic is going to get really, really messy. It is. I mean, even says it when he's like, you know, unconscious.
00:13:56
Speaker
She's like, when I think about you, I think of him. And I hate that. So it's going to get really messy. I thought it was like kind of over. When Anna Lucia got there, was like, you know what?
00:14:07
Speaker
Jack is going to get with Anna Lucia. Kate's going get with Sawyer. It's as easy as that. But I know that Anna Lucia is going to create another love triangle. It's what's going to happen.
00:14:19
Speaker
I'm trying to think of, um, like a, like a shape that I can reference. Cause it's not really love, it's not really a love rectangle. Yeah. I imagine, I imagine a line with four points and then the two center points are Jack and Kate.
00:14:34
Speaker
And then the outer points are Anna Lucia and Sawyer. So Jack loves Kate and Sawyer loves Kate and Kate loves Jack and Anna Lucia loves Jack and Jack loves Anna Lucia.
00:14:45
Speaker
You, you, you, you, you're picking up what I'm putting up. Yeah. No, okay. Okay. Okay. The Kiss, I had to pause the show. I had to try my best to not pause the show.
00:14:58
Speaker
I grabbed the remote and I said, was going, whoa, whoa, whoa, where did this come from? Whoa. I to stop. I wasn't expecting it.
00:15:10
Speaker
Yeah. But, mean, sure. Go crazy, Kate. Go crazy, Jack. Go for you. Go ahead.
00:15:22
Speaker
Yeah, very interesting. This island, these people, I tell you, man. Mm-hmm. And then some other on-island stuff this episode
Shannon's Funeral and Character Impact
00:15:31
Speaker
to note. Firstly, we have the final aftermath of Shannon's death.
00:15:35
Speaker
We have her funeral where Saeed speaks, and then Jack also says, may she rest in peace, and they all start paying their respects and dumping dirt over the body. Okay.
00:15:49
Speaker
have something to say. Alright. It may come off the wrong way. I imagine it might.
00:16:00
Speaker
I didn't like Shannon. You didn't? This is known. This is known. It is. Was her death sad and brutal?
00:16:12
Speaker
Yes. Was her funeral heavy? Yes. In a way. can't help but to just feel nothing. Like, I don't care.
00:16:24
Speaker
Like, here's the way that I see I don't care that much about Shannon's death because she was just never an involved character.
00:16:37
Speaker
You know, when Boone died, didn't really care too much when Boone died, but Boone was more involved than Shannon was. And when Shannon was involved, she was way more annoying than when Boone was.
00:16:52
Speaker
I'm not trying to compare. But I will say something that I think that is the big difference is they made me care about Boone while he was dying. While Boone was dying and that whole segmented thing was going on, that made me care about Boone.
00:17:09
Speaker
That made me feel sad for Boone when he actually died. That, and the fact that he was actually, like, you know, he was going with John Locke, you know, he was like, you know, he was trying to figure stuff out.
00:17:19
Speaker
He was trying to get off the island. That made me feel bad for him. That made me feel sorry. That made me sad. I don't feel any of that for Shannon.
00:17:31
Speaker
Yeah, it's all about the positive moments that we had with Boone. Shannon didn't really have any positive moments. She was a generally terrible person to be around on the island.
00:17:44
Speaker
Exactly. So I don't know. The writers wrote her that way. Yeah, I mean,
00:17:52
Speaker
just can't help. I can't feel bad. can't really be sad. You know, that's like... I get it. You know what? This also might be a little bit on a take.
00:18:03
Speaker
I would be more sad if Libby died than if Shannon died. Just because, like, and has Libby had, like, five minutes of screen time?
00:18:13
Speaker
Yeah, she's only had, like, five minutes of screen time versus Shannon, who's probably had, like, at least an hour. But, you know, Libby was at least, like, nice, know? Yeah, let me throw out a couple of names for you.
00:18:26
Speaker
Arst or Shannon's death. Which one was more impactful?
00:18:35
Speaker
You have to think about it, don't you? I have to think about it. Shannon's was more impactful. I didn't care for Arst at all. Yeah, yeah. He came in like two episodes.
00:18:46
Speaker
But like, not really. Arsh was in the show for a total of like two episodes. They kind of just threw him in there so that he could die. Right.
00:18:58
Speaker
No, the funny thing about that, though, there are so many lost fans who love Earth. That love him. What? I don't get Yeah, he's like an urban lost legend at this point.
00:19:09
Speaker
So I think that a lot of people would say they were sadder about his death than Earth. That's insane. really is. Yeah, no. You know what?
00:19:20
Speaker
While I'm here, let me say, where is Cindy at? Yeah. I don't
00:19:32
Speaker
Did they just forget her? Because, okay. You give me an episode where you don't talk about Cindy. That's fine.
00:19:43
Speaker
I get it. She wasn't really an important character anyway. You give me three episodes without Cindy, now I'm like, okay, what's going on?
00:19:55
Speaker
Because... really other survivors uh-huh or the tailies they've been with cindy bernard bernard and lucia echo cindy 48 days yeah you've been you've been with with these six for a pretty consistent at least 30 days because you did have however many 27 and now you're down to like five and they just okay bye cindy
00:20:27
Speaker
I don't know. I know. You would think that they would want to try to find her, but I think they're just so freaked out about the others. Yeah.
00:20:38
Speaker
I don't know. And we haven't had a ton of screen time for most of them the last couple of episodes, aside from Echo in episode 10. Echo!
00:20:50
Speaker
Yeah, I know you're going to be excited to talk about that. Oh, I'm so excited.
Echo and Locke's Silent Understanding
00:20:55
Speaker
Yeah, speaking of Echo, there's the whole Locke and Echo storyline this episode, which starts off as Echo overhears Locke tell Michael that Desmond left the movie.
00:21:06
Speaker
Michael's asking all these questions, talking about the missing frames and stuff like that as they're watching the movie. And after the movie plays, Echo goes, I have something you should see.
00:21:19
Speaker
And this scene was awesome, Nick, as Echo tells his story from the beginning to hear him phrase it. I loved everything about the lock and echo interactions.
00:21:33
Speaker
So here's why I actually really like it. I think they're two sides of the same coin. Right? Yeah. But they are not clicking like you would have expected them to.
00:21:46
Speaker
You would have expected them to be like, oh, yeah, we're both like the same person clicking together and like they're best friends. But they're not. And then like, they've had these interactions where they're more than acquaintances, but less than friends.
00:22:01
Speaker
I don't know how to really like explain it outside of the fact that it's perfect for both of their characters. Right. It makes so much sense.
00:22:12
Speaker
It makes so much sense. I think with time, they'll kind of become a little more whatever, whatever, whatever. But as a start, it's amazing. Echo with his, you know, biblical story and ending up with, we found a book.
00:22:30
Speaker
Tying in the Bible from the other hatch. Echo opening the Bible to reveal the missing splices from the orientation film. mean, some of the scenes in this episode were what carried it as high as I liked it.
00:22:47
Speaker
Was it a Kate episode that I really like? Did I really like the fact that it was a Kate episode? It wasn't my favorite Kate episode. Yes, 1000%.
00:22:56
Speaker
But on the other hand, this episode also had a lot of redeeming qualities in other fields, even more than episode 10 Seriously, it was fantastic.
00:23:12
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And my favorite line from this whole episode is when they're piecing the film back together and Locke's asking, what are the odds? You know, like, what are the odds that that Beechcraft left Nigeria and landed here?
00:23:27
Speaker
You guys were on the other side of the island. We were on this side. We got this hatch. You found the Bible in the other hatch. And Echo says, don't mistake coincidence for fate.
00:23:39
Speaker
So good. And then they watch it, and the only additional info they really get out of it is where the dude says, do not attempt to use the computer for anything but entering the button. And Locke and Echo just turn and stare at each other with that bewildered look.
00:23:53
Speaker
I'm just, I'm loving the interactions between these two, and I definitely want more.
00:23:58
Speaker
Like, I can't tell you much that line, don't mistake coincidence for fate, It makes so much sense. And it's like the two sides of the same coin.
00:24:10
Speaker
Like, I'm so I'm like, actually so excited see more interactions between the two of them. Because I just know the two of them are gonna figure some crazy crap out about the island.
00:24:25
Speaker
Absolutely. am so excited. I swear to God, if Echo dies, if they make Echo die within the next five episodes, I'm going to be so mad.
00:24:36
Speaker
I'm going to be so unbelievably mad.
Michael's Secret Communication: Real or Illusion?
00:24:41
Speaker
Well, didn't I tell you that everyone dies in the next two episodes, and then they bring in all new characters?
00:24:49
Speaker
But... I love them as a pair. And...
00:24:57
Speaker
Michael, you're making it really hard for me to like you. You're making it really hard for me to like you. Not because I'm not liking you. Because I will say, know you don't like Michael.
00:25:10
Speaker
Or maybe it's not that you don't like Michael, but he's towards your bottom. He's towards my bottom, yeah.
00:25:17
Speaker
I get where he's coming from. Like, I get where he's coming from. Right. I actually think the cliffhanger from this episode is insanely good.
00:25:28
Speaker
He gets a message on the computer as soon as the, as soon as Echo and John Locke get done with like, do not use the computer for anything else. And he gets message on the computer that just says, hello.
00:25:41
Speaker
And I'm like, whoa, hello. The other, not the other others. The others are contacting you. Not the other others, the others. And Michael responds, and we see dad.
00:25:58
Speaker
So for one second, you were not thinking that that was Walt? You think it was the others?
00:26:06
Speaker
Then, well, I mean, then it said dad. So, mean, how would Walt have his hands on a computer?
00:26:16
Speaker
Yeah, that's a fair question. And also... mean, is it possible that he could, I suppose? I mean, it's possible. No, it's totally possible. And that would tie in with the fact that I think the others are at station number one.
00:26:33
Speaker
Because remember, I said that station number two was the arrow and station three was the swan, I think the others are located at station one. So that would make sense if they have their own bunker and Walt is therefore communicating through there.
00:26:56
Speaker
is the one thing that I pulled away. He said, don't use the computer for something other than the button, or we will have another incident.
00:27:10
Speaker
So that's what the incident was. The incident was communication with the outside world. So, so, we're going have another incident and things are going go crazy.
00:27:23
Speaker
Season two finale is going to be off the walls.
00:27:27
Speaker
I would say that's probably accurate. Yeah. I mean, loved the finale of this. I can at least confirm that, yes, the season one finale will be off the walls. Season two.
00:27:40
Speaker
Oh, yeah, season two, sorry.
00:27:44
Speaker
I can also confirm season one. This is true.
00:27:50
Speaker
Awesome. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what transpires. But yeah, great episode. Any closing thoughts or anything we missed that you wanted to touch on?
00:28:04
Speaker
don't actually think so. I mean, I really, I said when we were going to do this that I was going to take notes and I just haven't been taking notes. I really should.
00:28:14
Speaker
My first mental note that I definitely did want to say is Jin is ripped. Dang. Yeah, he is. Like, seriously, he walked out of the tent, you know, first thing in the morning.
00:28:27
Speaker
And I was like, was like, dang. You know, like you, you, I mean, you really, really, really, really are ripped. A few things that I want to mention.
00:28:40
Speaker
We haven't had eye shots this season. That's true. We've had no eye shots this season. I kind of miss them. Which miss them too.
00:28:52
Speaker
And this episode, least on Netflix, because that's where I watch it, there was no previously on Lost for this episode.
00:29:04
Speaker
Which I don't know if that has to do with anything, but usually there's previously on Lost and you have to hit like skip recap. Because I usually don't. I mean, sometimes you know what?
00:29:15
Speaker
I don't watch them because the recaps usually give something away from the episode. Yeah. Like, for example, for the episode where Shannon dies.
00:29:29
Speaker
Uh-huh. Like, I think I watched the beginning of the recap and it had like something to do with Boone. So I was like, oh, this is probably Shannon-centric. And it was, and Shannon died.
00:29:41
Speaker
So I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but there was no recap.
00:29:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think the Netflix thing must have just been a Netflix issue or something weird, because I'm pretty sure on Disney+, when I was watching it, did have the previously on Lost.
00:29:57
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:30:02
Speaker
right, cool. Well, let's jump into episode 10. So the second episode we'll cover tonight is called the 23rd Psalm. And our focus on this one shifts to Mr. Echo.
00:30:13
Speaker
And we jump right into his backstory.
Echo's Redemption and Past
00:30:16
Speaker
And wow, Nick, talk about a character with layers. What did you think of learning about Echo's past?
00:30:25
Speaker
I have no words. Yeah. I...
00:30:31
Speaker
No words. This episode was amazing.
00:30:36
Speaker
Can I go out on a limb and say this is the best episode of this season so far? don't say that. Why not?
00:30:48
Speaker
Because Everybody Hates Hugo is such a good episode. Yeah, it's good, but this is great. Right? There's that distinction.
00:30:58
Speaker
Oh... Yeah, this is better. I don't know. I don't know. Ask me. might have recency bias. I'll ask you later. I'll let you think about it for little bit.
00:31:10
Speaker
I need it to sink in. Sounds good. I did not see his Nigerian warlord persona coming through. Right? I mean, he comes off so calm and then you see him as a criminal.
00:31:27
Speaker
What?
00:31:31
Speaker
polar opposites yeah but then the flashbacks show us the tragedy of how he got there so as a kid obviously he shoots the old man to save his little brother yemi from having to do it he is welcomed into the ranks of the militia because of that they say something the effect of a natural born killer or something like that So one moment of trying to protect his brother sets him on this dark path, and he becomes this big bad mercenary, goes around with machetes, killing people, and he still has a conscience, though, because...
00:32:09
Speaker
You know, he stops his fellow mercenaries from killing that child that comes into the room after he had murdered those other two guys. Right. So I think it's super interesting, like, how we've seen him on the island so far.
00:32:24
Speaker
And he's so calm. But he also, like, you know, I was wondering where did he get his tracking skill? Where does he get his, like... combat skill, and we see that now.
00:32:38
Speaker
Years earlier, he's asking his brother help him smuggle drugs using the Virgin Mary statues that we know. Yep. It's insane.
00:32:50
Speaker
The Virgin Mary statues were being sold to raise money for a polio vaccine, I believe is what it was. So Yemi is trying to do good things and wants to sell these statues so that they can raise the money.
00:33:05
Speaker
And Echo wants to use them for drug smoking. Wow. The contrast is just insane. No words.
00:33:16
Speaker
It is. And also the sort of smugness from Yemi throughout their interactions and his almost utter disregard for the fact that Echo saved his life.
00:33:29
Speaker
And he could have ended up as the one who went down that path. I found that very interesting and very deep flashbacks this episode. Yeah, I didn't even think about that.
00:33:41
Speaker
About how he... Wow, that's really, really, really... That's a really good point. Yeah, that part really bothered me. Yeah. Let's talk about the island stuff, too.
00:33:53
Speaker
The episode starts with Claire approaching Echo, and she brings up the Virgin Mary statue after Echo is carving Bible references on his big old stick.
00:34:06
Speaker
And she mentions Charlie has a Virgin Mary statue. So he obviously asks about it, and he goes up to Charlie, and he's like, where did you find this?
00:34:17
Speaker
he's like, his british accent i found it in the jungle
00:34:23
Speaker
and he's like okay take me there like where in the jungle take me there now and and charlie's like right i'll take you first thing in the morning he's like no we're going now and he's like hey let me tell claire first and then we'll go says you'll tell her on the way we're going and she's just trying to be helpful he knows what's in those those statues and
00:34:48
Speaker
Yeah. And the other thing I was going to say is it was interesting the way they layered the flashbacks and the on-island stuff this episode.
00:34:59
Speaker
You know, we had only at this point seen the little boy Echo who had taken up for Yemi and shot the man. Yes. So this was kind of the first time we saw adult Echo get intense.
00:35:12
Speaker
Like he was getting really intense in those scenes with both Claire and Charlie. Yes. 100%.
00:35:20
Speaker
And we'll circle back on some of that as, you know, it's kind of intermingled with some other storylines we've got going here. But first, in this episode, we also have some interesting scenes between Michael and Locke.
00:35:31
Speaker
Michael obviously is still desperate to find Walt, and he sees Locke changing the combination to the gun armory. Yeah, and Michael, he finds out the combination's being changed, and he's disappointed because he wanted the guns.
00:35:44
Speaker
He wanted guns that he could go out and look for Walt again. Go after his boy! Yeah. And then Locke must have agreed, or for whatever reason, they end up out in the jungle, and he's teaching Michael how to use guns.
00:35:58
Speaker
And he's very calm, teaching him the ropes. But there's also this underlying message, because Locke knows that Michael wants the guns and wants go after the others to find Walt. And he's like, it's not a good idea, man.
00:36:10
Speaker
No, it's not. And Michael keeps insisting that he's not going to do it either. But Locke can really sniff anybody out and kind see what they really want.
00:36:23
Speaker
And Michael wasn't doing a great job of hiding it either. No, and then the first chance he got, he was sneaking right back onto the computer to try to have more conversations.
00:36:35
Speaker
And sure enough, when Michael gets in front of that computer, conversations start coming through, right? Yeah, coincidentally.
00:36:46
Speaker
And then, of course, Jack walks into the hatch. He's trying to have a normal conversation with Michael and just telling him, hey, look, man, you know, I know that you probably feel like we've all forgotten about Walt, but get things straightened out here.
00:36:57
Speaker
We're going to figure out a plan and go look for him. Yeah, you know, Jack kind walks around, and, like, the computer is going to show the whole conversation that Michael is going to have with Walt, and it just doesn't.
00:37:12
Speaker
It's blank. But, incoming theory. Okay.
00:37:19
Speaker
So, Michael's chatting with Walt. Walt, soft quotation marks, because I don't know if it's Walt. Yeah. First of all, why would Walt be asking if he was alone?
00:37:34
Speaker
Uh-huh. That's my first thing. Why would Walt care? Second thing, so the way that it was in the episode was Michael is reading the messages.
00:37:48
Speaker
Walt starts typing something, and then Jack walks in, and Michael looks up, and we don't see anything on the screen past that. What Walt, again, I'm saying Walt, soft quotes, what Walt says is you need to come and then he keeps typing.
00:38:06
Speaker
We don't know what he said, but I'm assuming that means either next episode, the episode after that, Michael is going somewhere and he's going to get himself in trouble.
00:38:21
Speaker
Yeah. One would imagine that's probably the case.
00:38:27
Speaker
And also, your theory, we're looking at it as potentially this is the others trying to reach out and not Walt, and they're at some other Dharma station, is a pretty good possibility that there are cameras inside of our hatch, and they can see when Michael is the one in front of the computer, which is why the stuff goes away.
00:38:52
Speaker
That's a very good point. Yeah, as you threw out your theory, I was thinking through that. That's a very good point. I like that theory.
00:39:03
Speaker
Yeah, thank you. Yeah.
Encounter with the Smoke Monster
00:39:08
Speaker
And then we get back to the Charlie and Echo scenes this episode, which were fantastic. Echo asks Charlie about where he found the Virgin Mary statue, and Charlie starts explaining about the Beechcraft plane in the jungle.
00:39:21
Speaker
But he's clearly nervous, and he can tell Echo knows more than he's letting on.
00:39:27
Speaker
Echo is suggesting this point that go to the plane together, and Charlie doesn't really want to. But Echo being Echo is very persuasive, and it's not really a request so much as an order.
00:39:46
Speaker
Exactly. And so they head into the jungle together, and Charlie is trying to make conversation like he typically does. Chatty Cathy, we'll call him. Yeah.
00:39:58
Speaker
And Echo is mostly silent until all of a sudden he starts asking him some questions. Why did you lie to the girl? And what is the wrong idea? And Charlie's like, look, man, don't have to explain anything to you.
00:40:13
Speaker
I, you know what I really like about Echo is I love how straightforward he is. He does not, that man does not beat around the bush at all. doesn't. Like, like everything with Echo is very straightforward and I really like it.
00:40:28
Speaker
And Echo just straight up calls Charlie out on his crap, which is much deserved. Yeah. And I do also appreciate on the Charlie side, I do appreciate that eventually he opens up a little bit to Echo, talks about how he became an addict, you know, shared about his brother.
00:40:47
Speaker
And before we reach the plane, Echo talks Charlie into climbing a tree. Charlie's like, man, I really don't know where I'm going. I know I'm in the right vicinity. And Echo's like, well, hey, climb the tree.
00:40:58
Speaker
Maybe you'll get your bearings. And then something really fun happens, at least for us, the viewers.
00:41:06
Speaker
The smoke monster shows up. Yes. Yes. wow i mean like what an epic like i i mean it's already such a great episode and then we get this this is the most we have seen it ever it is ever and now we know exactly what happened to lock in walkabout that's the same thing that lock did and how he survived he didn't move And similar, like I said, they're the same sides of the two sides, the same coin.
00:41:41
Speaker
They do the same things. They're both men of faith. And Echo does the same thing. It doesn't move. And he was like, I wasn't scared of it. Yeah. Which is the same thing that Locke would have said.
00:41:52
Speaker
Like, I'm not scared of it. I'm not scared of anything on the island. The island is my home. So... Echo kind of just faces it down after Charlie is like, run, run.
00:42:02
Speaker
And I don't even know what this smoke is. And it's like making the ground like explode. Right. And I think Danielle said it was security or defense.
00:42:17
Speaker
Yeah, security system. It's defending something.
00:42:21
Speaker
My guess is that it's defending research station one.
00:42:29
Speaker
Oh, okay. That's my guess for now. Interesting.
00:42:35
Speaker
Yeah, that whole scanning thing that it did with all the lights and noises and very intriguing. was almost like it was looking into Echo and finding stuff out about him.
00:42:50
Speaker
Uh-huh.
00:42:53
Speaker
So, yeah, crazy.
00:42:56
Speaker
I mean, the whole scanning thing, I didn't really even... I mean, like, I picked up on it, but I didn't even think about it like that. He gets right in his face, and is, like, kind of figuring him out or, like, reading him.
00:43:11
Speaker
And I bet you, depending on, you know, how the security system, you know, reads you as a threat or as not a threat, and I bet you Echo and Locke, the only two that it seems to have read...
00:43:24
Speaker
weren't threats. However, might have taken Jack as a threat considering it tried pulling Jack underneath. Or no, was it? No, it was pulling Locke underneath.
00:43:34
Speaker
I don't know. Never mind. I take that theory back then. It was pulling Locke underneath. Yeah, it was pulling Locke underneath, which is interesting. Right. But like a lot of what you have said.
00:43:46
Speaker
It's just trying to tie the whole thing together of what is it actually doing? If it is guarding station, like what's the, what's the reason why it would scan Echo and not see him as a threat to station versus seeing other people as a threat.
00:44:04
Speaker
Like why did it kill the pilot of the plane? Right. Oh, that's right. I forgot it did that.
00:44:13
Speaker
Oh, that's a good point. I don't know then. Unless it was doing that to scare everyone else so that it, you know, in essence was doing its job by trying to scare them away from coming into the jungle.
00:44:27
Speaker
don't That's true. That's true. Dang, that's, I really need to start taking those.
00:44:36
Speaker
Seriously. Yeah, and back to the scanning thing. I don't know if you noticed this, but it's kind of hard to see because it flashed so quickly. There was one spot towards the end of the flashing lights noises where it was doing the scanning.
00:44:51
Speaker
where there was almost like an X-ray image off to the left of the smoke, or where it looked like it was seeing a picture image from Echo's person, I guess.
00:45:02
Speaker
I don't know. Interesting. then maybe the others, not the other others, maybe the others control it some kind of way? don't know. I'm kind of just throwing things out there.
00:45:14
Speaker
Maybe. But it still doesn't explain what the heck it is and why it can do these cool things. This is true.
00:45:23
Speaker
And then once it's gone, after Echo has stared it down unflinchingly and maintains eye contact and all that, Charlie is naturally shaken up, comes down from the tree, and he's like, what just happened?
00:45:36
Speaker
But Echo's like, did you see it? And Charlie thinks he's talking about the smoke monster, but he's talking about the plane. He wants to keep moving. Yeah. And then they finally come upon the plane, which kicks us to our last flashback where we see Echo and the drug smugglers getting ready to fly off on the beach craft.
00:45:57
Speaker
Yeah, that was tough. Yemi turning them in and the military right there and Yemi trying to talk Echo out of it and... he gets shot and pulled into the plane then the smuggler kicks Echo out and then military is like father are you okay and they think he's the priest yeah it's insane yeah it's insane and he has the documentation saying that he is yeah and he just kind of assumed that persona after that point yeah I think he did it for Yemi
00:46:37
Speaker
Yeah, well, and I think he did it for himself, too, because, you know, he was given a chance to start over and redeem himself from his mistakes. Yeah.
00:46:50
Speaker
Also sad, Echo does go into the Beechcraft and he finds Yemi's body. He identifies the cross necklace that he gave him when he was a kid and he just weeps over it. And after he's done, Charlie asks him, so are you a priest or not?
00:47:05
Speaker
And he says, I am.
00:47:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think he didn't consider him a priest until he found Yemi's body and burned his body. I think in that moment, then, after he had done that, after he had found his brother, his mind, he was like, yes, I'm a priest.
00:47:30
Speaker
Yeah, I think you're right. I hadn't thought about it that way, but I think you're absolutely right. It was a really cool scene where they both recite the song. Yes.
00:47:43
Speaker
Yeah, Echo burns the beach craft, he and Charlie are reciting it. And, you know, they're kind of each walking through their own valleys.
00:47:53
Speaker
And then as they're finishing that up, we transition to some peaceful ukulele music while they're showing scenes of our survivors on the beach.
Charlie's Secret and Sobriety Questioned
00:48:02
Speaker
And Claire... Charlie actually apologizes to Claire and admits that, you know, I kept the statues because they made me feel safe, but I'm not using.
00:48:14
Speaker
she's like, don't care, Charlie. Get out. don't want you around my baby. And just as we, the viewers, are intended, I think, to feel sorry for Charlie, we see him go into the jungle and uncover a hiding place where he has several of Virgin Mary statues.
00:48:31
Speaker
I... I...
00:48:35
Speaker
I have no words. I will get into it when we get to our most loved and most hated. Sounds good. We can save it for them.
00:48:47
Speaker
Awesome. Well, that brings us to the end season two, episodes nine and 10. Any, any closing comments or, know, what did you think ranking wise of these two just on your first impression?
00:49:01
Speaker
Well, usually I compare the episodes to each other, 9 and 10.
00:49:06
Speaker
I really think it's hard to do that. I seriously do think it's really hard to do that this time around. Just because Kate's episode felt so much like a season 1 episode.
00:49:19
Speaker
And Echo's episode felt so much like a season 2 episode. And it's really hard to compare the two.
00:49:27
Speaker
Sure. That being said, liked the general feel
00:49:37
Speaker
if you asked me up front which one did you like better, I'd probably say episode 10, but I liked a lot of the subtle details and a lot of the little things that went on in Kate's episode.
00:49:49
Speaker
So, just thought there was a lot more story and a lot more to unpack in episode 10, at least with Echo's story.
00:50:00
Speaker
It was more of what we didn't know.
00:50:04
Speaker
But there were some really, really, really great moments in that kid episode too. So I would actually, said that both episodes last week were in my top portion.
00:50:19
Speaker
think both of these actually are better than the two from last week. Yep, 100%.
00:50:30
Speaker
Well, good deal. Let's jump into the most loved, most hated segment. So listeners, this is the segment you've come to love where we talk about who is trending up and who are we loving at the current moment and which characters are trending down or who are we hating?
00:50:44
Speaker
So Nick, where are you starting this episode? It's so hard. So that last week, okay. I said that last week.
00:50:56
Speaker
Oh,
00:50:59
Speaker
Watch it two episodes, narrowing it down to three for two episodes makes it really hard. It does. Makes it really hard. Trying to challenge you this season. Okay.
00:51:11
Speaker
Bottom three. My most hated this week is Wayne. I think that's given. Yep. Yep.
00:51:21
Speaker
My second most hated is Diane, Kate's mom. Yeah. Again, makes sense. I mean, think also something that I didn't mention that I actually just remembered, it makes a lot of sense when Kate visits her mother and her mother freaks out, you know, when she's in the hospital and her mother like freaks out and starts losing her mind seeing Kate.
00:51:46
Speaker
It makes a lot more sense now. Yeah, it does. So there's that. So those are my those are my two. And then my my least hate of this episode is actually Charlie.
00:51:57
Speaker
He did make the list still. And the I do want to talk a lot about Charlie because I thought he really redeemed himself in some areas in this episode or in episode 10.
00:52:09
Speaker
Yeah, he was a lot better. He actually came forth and admitted his problems, and he took responsibility. He didn't really take responsibility for it, but he didn't fight Claire, which is something that I... kind of appreciate is he didn't fight Claire on the fact like, you know, he's like, he's like, okay, he's like, you know what, you bring up a good point.
00:52:29
Speaker
He was like, I did that. He was like, broke your trust. He was like, I'm sorry. You know, and he, you know, he went and he did whatever. However, he still stays in my most hated for two reasons.
00:52:41
Speaker
One, his interactions with Echo, he was kind of, at some points, kind of a little rude. I mean, obviously Echo wasn't being the nicest guy either, but Charlie also could have been truthful and whatnot.
00:52:57
Speaker
Anyway, but the main thing that sent it home was the fact that he still has those Virgin Mary statues. Why does he have them?
00:53:08
Speaker
Yeah. Something that I find interesting about it is the tone of the show. It was playing the music in the background.
00:53:22
Speaker
And it was really happy music. We saw Sawyer and Kate and Jack being all happy. And we saw Sun and Jin giving Anna Lucia some fish. And it was all good.
00:53:33
Speaker
And then see Charlie in the dark, right? And this happy music is still going on. And then, hands to his face, like the music shifts to like an evil tone.
00:53:47
Speaker
I don't really know how to describe it besides an evil tone. Because that's what it really felt like. Yeah. So, for that reason, I have Charlie in my bottom three.
00:53:58
Speaker
Now, my top three, this is specifically why I say it's hard, is because I have so many people that I want to put in my top three. My top two are definitely, like, figured out. Echo is going to be my number one.
00:54:11
Speaker
I think that was obvious. I think that was coming. Again, would... No, Locke is actually not my number two. I'm surprised. I would put Locke in my number two, but he just... He didn't get enough screen time.
00:54:25
Speaker
That's only thing that I'm going to struggle with, with... Locke is if Echo is getting so much screen time and Locke isn't getting any, it's going to be impossible.
00:54:38
Speaker
And I mean, actually impossible for me to rank him that high. I mean, obviously you could have Locke and Echo in the top three. Don't get me wrong. But I want a little bit of diversity here.
00:54:50
Speaker
And because of that, I'm going to put Kate at my number two, which is really surprising coming from me because don't, I think I've only had Kate in my top three, like twice.
00:55:01
Speaker
Yeah. But I think this episode was fantastic. I actually think her episode was really great and it built upon her character even more than it had in the past. Yeah.
00:55:11
Speaker
So, great job for Kate. My third favorite is where this gets difficult. Like, seriously very difficult. I'll tell you who I'm debating. I'm debating Locke. I'm debating Jack.
00:55:23
Speaker
I'm debating Sawyer. Uh-huh.
00:55:28
Speaker
I probably will have to go Jack on this one. Jack's been pretty good. He's been Jack's been pretty good. He's been good, Jack. And Sawyer will be my honorable mention.
00:55:40
Speaker
Okay. That is my most loved and most hated. That's fair. I think I would go most loved. Locke would absolutely be number one. wow.
00:55:50
Speaker
think I'm with you. no, I'm sorry. Did I say Locke? Yes. Echo would be number one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think I'm with you that Kate would be my number two.
00:56:02
Speaker
agree. It was a great episode and island stuff. Like, you know, she's definitely going on a bit of a journey. Right. Yeah. And also was just a very intriguing episode about her character.
00:56:16
Speaker
And then I think the third place for me, because none of them got crazy amount of screen time in either episode, I think it would do a three-way tie with Locke, Sawyer, and Jack because they all had really good parts.
00:56:29
Speaker
And obviously there were some other characters that had some cool one-liners like Hurley. Yeah, I was just about to say that. Jin and Son had some fun appearances and things like that. Exactly. But yeah, I think that's where would land on most loved, most hated.
00:56:44
Speaker
I'm with you, Wayne, Diane. I do not have Charlie in my bottom. I get where you're coming from. What I go back to time and again somebody that is an addict like that.
00:56:59
Speaker
It is sometimes a very long and complex journey for them to rise above it. And so the good thing is Charlie's not using, right? Yes, this is true.
00:57:11
Speaker
This is true. Maybe behind the scenes, but I would think you would see some symptoms showing if he was. Right. So I'm to leave him out of the bottom because I do think he got better. Obviously, he's not a most loved character at this juncture yet.
00:57:25
Speaker
Correct. I'm going to put Michael in the bottom. Sorry, have to do it. Why is Michael in the bottom? Michael's at the bottom just because, like you said, he's not talking to Walt.
00:57:38
Speaker
Anybody with a brain can know that that's not Walt on the computer. Michael is just, he just doesn't think things through. Right. And he puts other people in bad situations he has in the past.
00:57:54
Speaker
And I think he probably will continue to do that based on track record. So that's where I land. Okay, I see where you're coming from. I thought you were going to put Yemi down there with how you were talking about him.
00:58:09
Speaker
Oh, that's true. Actually... Okay, yeah, actually, I'm taking Diane out and Yemi's going in there. You're right. Oh, wow, you're keeping Michael.
00:58:20
Speaker
Yeah, I'm keeping Michael in the naughty box. I was like, oh, I got Michael out of trouble. Yeah. You immediately responded with, oh, yeah, okay, right, Diane's fine.
00:58:31
Speaker
Tricked you, didn't I? Yeah, you did. I mean, like, I get where you're coming from. I totally where you're coming from with Yemi. I didn't even think that way when watching the episode. So I probably, I imagine a lot of that just comes down to you've watched the show now five times and you've developed, you know, a full opinion on Yemi.
00:58:50
Speaker
Yeah, well, and I, you know, when you've seen it that many times, you catch it differently every time you watch it. Correct. Yeah. So... Cool.
00:59:01
Speaker
Well, I think we sprinkled in some pretty good theories and predictions. Anything else that you wanted to touch on on that end of things? No, I actually think that we covered everything that I wanted to cover.
00:59:12
Speaker
So I'm very happy with that. Awesome. Well, that's a wrap for our deep dive into season two, episodes nine and 10. And join us next time listeners, as we will be tackling two more episodes.
00:59:26
Speaker
We'll have episodes 11 and 12 of season two. 11 being called the hunting party and 12 being called fire and water. So Nick, um, you want to take a, take a little guess at who the character centrics are on these.
00:59:41
Speaker
And if you get them right, I will tell you yes. If you get them wrong, I will tell you no, and I will not tell you who it is. Okay. You said hunting party and what's the other one? Fire and water.
00:59:53
Speaker
Okay. Ooh. That's good.
01:00:02
Speaker
Okay. A hunting party, I'm gonna John Locke. Even though we had a Locke episode not that long ago, think hunting party makes sense for Locke.
01:00:16
Speaker
Or it could be a Saeed-centric episode, too. I'm gonna go Locke. I feel like it makes more sense to go Locke. Okay.
01:00:26
Speaker
What is it? What is it? Water and fire and water? Fire and water. Yeah, fire and
01:00:33
Speaker
You know what? I'm going to go out on a whim. I'm fire and water. I'm thinking contrasting characters. I'm thinking who's had a fight recently.
01:00:46
Speaker
I'm thinking Claire and Charlie. I'm thinking it's either a Charlie or a Claire episode. And I think that Charlie is the fire and Claire is the water. Hmm. Very interesting.
01:00:57
Speaker
All right. So now for the reveals. The Hunting Party is not a John Locke-centric episode. But I see why your mind went there.
01:01:08
Speaker
Yeah. It is also not a Saeed-centric episode. So I'll just go ahead and toss both of those out, and I won't tell you who it Wow. Okay. Now, Fire and Water is a Charlie-centric episode.
01:01:20
Speaker
So you did get that part right. And I'm impressed that you guessed that, although I don't know if the title means what you interpreted, but still cool that you got to the answer either way.
01:01:33
Speaker
Okay. Oh, Charlie episode. He's either going to redeem himself here, he's just going to never get out of the bottom three. Oh, man.
01:01:46
Speaker
Fingers crossed. Yeah. We will see. We will see.
01:01:54
Speaker
Well, thanks for joining us, listeners. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review. And send us your theories, please. I want to know if anyone else thinks the smoke monster is, you know, judging people.
01:02:10
Speaker
But, know, who knows? Right.
01:02:14
Speaker
Until next time, keep questioning and keep watching. Until next time, don't mistake coincidence for fate.