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The Long Con + One of Them Recap
14 Plays21 days ago
Sawyer steps back into his conman ways in ‘The Long Con,’ manipulating both friends and enemies to regain control. Then, in ‘One of Them,’ Sayid crosses moral lines when a mysterious man—Henry Gale—is captured and brought to the hatch. Our millennial uncle remembers the tension these episodes brought to the fandom, while Nick reacts to the growing paranoia and shifting alliances. Can anyone really be trusted?
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Lost with My Uncle'
00:00:21
Speaker
Terrific. You're listening to the Lost with My Uncle podcast. I'm Aaron DS and I'll be rewatching Lost along with my nephew Nick who will be watching it for the very first time.
00:00:37
Speaker
So come along with us and enjoy the journey.
00:00:42
Speaker
Let's get lost. Let's get lost.
Mid-Season Two Progress Discussion
00:00:50
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Lost with My Uncle podcast. I'm Aaron DS, your resident Millennial Lost superfan. And I'm Nick, the nephew who has now survived 12 episodes of season two without losing his mind over the mysteries.
00:01:10
Speaker
Impressive. And we're halfway through season two going into these two episodes, and things are getting intense. We've got trust issues brewing, cons within cons, and we're about to meet a very mysterious person.
00:01:29
Speaker
I'm still fully trying to process everything. From this season, and now we've got new characters, and, you know, I mean, we ah got button pushing, love triangles, weapons.
Listener Engagement Invitation
00:01:44
Speaker
Now there's another person who is maybe another and maybe is not another. i don't know.
00:01:55
Speaker
I'm telling you, Nick, you have no idea what you're in for, my friend. Mm-hmm. But I know you're here for it. hundred percent And as always, listeners, those of you who are going through this journey for the first time, or if you're rewatching the show, we love hearing any feedback that you have. Feel free to send us your comments and questions to lostwithmyunclepod at gmail.com. Again, that's lostwithmyunclepod at gmail.com.
00:02:23
Speaker
So without any further monkey business, let's get lost. Let's do it. Woo.
Analysis of 'The Long Con' Episode
00:02:30
Speaker
So tonight we're going to discuss two episodes. Again, that's our new format this season. We're going into episode 13, the long con, and then we'll talk through episode 14, which is called One of Them.
00:02:44
Speaker
So the long con is a Sawyer-centric episode, and it's all about manipulation, trust, and the art of the long con. And it's important to note an early scene where Sawyer's giving Charlie a hard time about how much people hate him.
00:03:00
Speaker
And Sawyer mentions how getting Locke to take a shot at you is like making Gandhi mad. That was hilarious. I actually took notes. This the first time I've taken, like, official notes.
00:03:12
Speaker
Yeah. I do have a Sawyer section here. Nice. For the things that he said. And he said, and I quote, it's like Gandhi beating his kids.
00:03:24
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, there's so many great lines throughout this whole set of episodes, and I cannot wait to talk more about it.
Sawyer's Confrontation with Jack
00:03:34
Speaker
Yeah, there are.
00:03:36
Speaker
And i'm glad I'm glad you're doing that, taking notes and making sure that you bring up all those Sawyerisms. Yes. And then Charlie's like, hey, Sawyer, shouldn't you be more worried that Jack is ransacking your tent right now?
00:03:52
Speaker
And Jack is taking back the medicine to lock in the vault. Sawyer's like, that's my stash. Y'all took it when I got on the raft. And Jack's like, Sawyer, there's no stash anymore. Everything belongs to everybody.
00:04:04
Speaker
And thus begins the whole premise for this episode, Nick, as Sawyer threatens Jack with a last chance. So what were your impressions when this episode started?
Sawyer's Flashback and Manipulation
00:04:16
Speaker
um Well, the start is the Sawyer episode, so I knew I was going to really like it. I mean, you open with a bang with, you know, this whole last chance, you know, like, or, or else. And Jack's kind like, are you threatening me?
00:04:32
Speaker
And we end with that same bang and clearly Sawyer ends out on top. And I do want to mention a quote from from at the very beginning of this episode with John Locke and Jack. And they're talking about the um the safe code. And Jack's like, oh, yeah, I'd like to have that safe code.
00:04:51
Speaker
And Locke says something like, don't you think I'd just fall off a cliff or something and die? yeah And Jack goes, there are a lot of cliffs on this island. So I did really like the banter between the two of them.
00:05:05
Speaker
That was great. As we see, it gets a little more intensive in these two episodes between the two of them. So I'm super into that. But let's talk about the first off island flashback.
00:05:20
Speaker
We start with Sawyer. And what appears to be in a hotel room with his woman. And he's got his briefcase full of money that he accidentally opens. And, you know, it's it's literally the exact same thing that happened last time we watched a Sawyer episode. or maybe it was Confidence Man.
00:05:37
Speaker
Same thing that happened, you know? ah feel like it's every Sawyer episode, yeah. Exactly. and And you think, right, here we go. This is going to be another Sawyer episode. He's up to his old his old tricks and flashback land.
00:05:52
Speaker
Exactly. And that woman is Cassidy, and she's played brilliantly by Kim Dickens, who is also one of the main characters on Fear the Walking Dead, for any of our listeners who have assumed any of the Walking Dead universe.
00:06:07
Speaker
And she sees right through Sawyer's Con from the beginning. She literally calls him out saying she got nothing from her divorce divorce and he should have done you know better homework. But she also is intrigued and she's like, hey, I want to learn how you con people.
00:06:23
Speaker
I was really big into them, like, you know, taking that turn and um kind of, you know, not falling for it, especially when most people would be like, oh, money.
00:06:36
Speaker
But it's good that she's suspicious. And it was really refreshing for someone to match Sawyer's energy in a way, and in that kind of way. Mm-hmm.
00:06:48
Speaker
And then we get further into that whole storyline where Sawyer teaches Cassidy how to run cons, and they're working together and falling in love with each other, seems like. And there's also this underlying tension, though, because we know Sawyer. There's always another layer to his schemes.
00:07:06
Speaker
Yeah, and you can really tell Cassidy is getting super emotionally invested. Falling for sore Sawyer while learning to be a con date dangerous territory and in my eyes.
00:07:22
Speaker
Absolutely. And speaking of dangerous territory, let's talk about what's happening on the
Sun's Attack and Island Tensions
00:07:28
Speaker
island. The episode opens with Sun working in her garden when suddenly she's attacked by someone who puts a burlap sack over her head.
00:07:39
Speaker
Yeah, that's actually, i mean, it came out of nowhere. But you know, it also happened when it was raining. The thunderstorm came out of nowhere. That's true I was not expecting that.
00:07:52
Speaker
Standing to her plants, bam, she's gone. And Sawyer and Kate hear her screams and find her laying there unconsciously.
00:08:03
Speaker
And it was super duper strange from the get go. I mean, how did she escape? I was thinking it was the others, I don't think the others would let them go. Yeah.
00:08:14
Speaker
You know, I don't think she would be able to... Sawyer brings it up when he's trying to convince Kate, but, I mean, Sun can't really overpower on anybody, so it seems really weird.
00:08:26
Speaker
Yeah. Seems fishy. Mm-hmm. And immediately everyone's assumption is that it was the others. But like you said, Sonya and Kate are skeptical, which creates this whole conflict about who to trust and what's really going on.
00:08:42
Speaker
Yeah. I would also assume that it's the others. But then, I mean, my mind goes to the same way that Sawyer would have painted it. And I think immediately i go to it's got to be Jack and Anna Lucia, you know, wanting the guns and wanting to train their army.
00:09:03
Speaker
Like even mentioning the the weaving and the fabric on the hood is different from the hood that they used for the others. You know, like... yeah And Kate you know is fully but like convinced and believing him.
00:09:18
Speaker
and And Jack is ready to go full-on military and stick up for everybody and do his Jack things. Exactly. and And this ties in perfectly to the power struggle over the guns.
Sawyer's Control Over the Guns
00:09:33
Speaker
Jack still wants to train an army. Locke wants to keep the guns locked up or controlled. And there's this whole debate running about who should have that control. And this also was a bit of a follow-up to the scene where Locke gives Jack the combination that he talked about, you know, getting the hatch at the beginning of our episode.
00:09:53
Speaker
Yeah, and and the tension at this point... It's so thick you can cut it with a knife, basically. And Anna Lucia is kind of trying to help Jack train people, which makes Locke super duper suspicious.
00:10:09
Speaker
And then Kate is also suspicious of Anna Lucia and asks Jack, well, how well can you trust her? And Jack's like, all right, screw you, and walks off. And I did love the Scott and Steve reference coming back. I wrote that down in my notes, too.
00:10:24
Speaker
I wrote that down. ah So I'm really happy to see that come back. really do like that bit. Yeah, it had been a minute since we had heard that one.
00:10:37
Speaker
And then Sawyer is just so smooth this whole episode, conning everyone. But really, Kate was a huge component. and He was just working her like nobody's business and continued to get involved.
00:10:51
Speaker
Getting her to distrust Anna Lucia and thinking it's her ploy to get the guns. Or you're talking people into thinking that, you know, it's Anna Lucia's ploy.
00:11:02
Speaker
Yeah, and Sawyer being all smooth talking Kate. But I'm not going to lie, I did not see it coming at all. I did not see this twist coming.
00:11:14
Speaker
Did you not? I did not. I literally had no idea. Yeah, it's it's a tough one to sniff out, really, because you have to think poorly of one of our losties if we're to believe they did it, right? And not the others.
00:11:33
Speaker
Yeah. And then we get back to the flashbacks where we see Sawyer's relationship with Cassidy deepening. They're pulling bigger cons together. But then Sawyer is meeting with Gordy.
00:11:46
Speaker
And clearly Gordy has some kind of control over him. And Sawyer's like, I'm not doing it. I'm not conning her and taking the $600,000 from her. And Gordy's like, you're going to do it or you're going to be in trouble, basically.
00:12:01
Speaker
Yeah. and The target is Cassidy. And that's when you kind of realize that Sawyer's been pulling a long con over her.
00:12:12
Speaker
You know? Setting her up the whole time. And she thinks he's just teaching her how to be the con artist. No, you're getting conned. Yeah.
00:12:23
Speaker
And the whole thing was just a confidence building exercise so that she'd be willing to invest her own money. and they were playing her from the beginning. Yeah. And yeah, it was tough.
00:12:38
Speaker
I mean, it's it's so much worse than I thought. I mean, she genuinely fell for him and trusted him. And, you know, he kind of just takes everything from her while saying that he still is into her.
00:12:56
Speaker
And the most heartbreaking part was when Cassidy realized and he revealed that to her. And she's seeing in that moment that their entire relationship was part of the long con. But then Sawyer is playing it up till the very end.
00:13:10
Speaker
you know doing what he felt like he had to do. but wow, it was just crazy.
00:13:17
Speaker
I i mean Sawyer goes through with it. i i He even, like, it's almost like he long conned her twice. he like He told her, yeah, I long conned you, and then he did it again.
00:13:30
Speaker
yeah ah He doesn't change his mind. he takes her money and leaves. Although, i do think Sawyer did care for Cassidy. I do too.
00:13:44
Speaker
And that brings us parallel to the events on the island this episode where Sawyer is pulling off his own version of a long con there. While everyone is arguing about the guns and who to trust, he's in the background orchestrating the whole thing, playing them against each other, creating chaos, and then he emerges as the person with all the power.
00:14:03
Speaker
So classic long con, make everyone else fight while you position yourself to win. Yeah, seriously. You conned Kate. even who he had interest romantically. And we find Sawyer is the one behind Sun's attack.
00:14:21
Speaker
Yep. And he tells Kate, you run, can. Tiger don't change his stripes. And it's crazy that that was used in the flashback with Gordy, too.
00:14:33
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:14:36
Speaker
And then as he is revealing himself as having conned them, he also gives the great line, there's a new sheriff in town, better get used to it, boys.
00:14:47
Speaker
And he talks about how he's not going to let Jack and Locke lead just because they are leading, right? It's a very interesting thing. Yeah, seriously. He basically declares himself the leader through manipulation and cunning rather than trying to win hearts and minds like Jack or appealing to destiny like Locke.
00:15:08
Speaker
Sawyer, Sawyer, Sawyer. You idiot. it
00:15:14
Speaker
Well, and and what a shift too, right? Because I know that, and maybe maybe this doesn't change where he lands like on your most loved list, because obviously still great character work and and really interesting, but i think it was definitely a step back for the character of Sawyer these two episodes.
00:15:33
Speaker
I definitely agree.
00:15:38
Speaker
And the scene at the end where we find out Charlie's involvement also, and he says that he wanted Locke to feel like a fool, and then he asked Sawyer how someone comes up with something like that idea or that long con.
00:15:52
Speaker
And Sawyer's response is so harrowing. as He says in a very like dejected, low and quiet voice, he's like, not a good person, Charlie. Never did a good thing in my life.
00:16:04
Speaker
And fade to black with Lost hitting our screens and what a way to end the episode.
00:16:11
Speaker
Seriously.
00:16:14
Speaker
it it was It was really good. It was good.
00:16:19
Speaker
How's that one hold up against Confidence Man or Confidence Men? I forget what it's called. And then the other one we had that was so good in season one.
00:16:30
Speaker
i think I'm putting Outlaws above this. Yeah, Outlaws. That's it.
00:16:36
Speaker
But i think I think this is probably above confidence, man. i agree. I don't know. I do just think it is a step back for his character, which I'm not a huge fan of.
00:16:49
Speaker
Yeah. But it kind of does play into his character a little bit of like, you know, I kind of like his quote, quote, I have to be like this. Right. Kind mentality. No, for sure.
00:17:00
Speaker
So it makes sense. And the show was kind of alluding to this too, I think. Yeah, he's kind of been, if he's been
Sawyer's Moral Complexity
00:17:10
Speaker
uprise. I knew he was going to take a hit and, you know, fall back down a little bit. But i'm I'm still excited to see where he goes and if he can work his way up again.
00:17:26
Speaker
Absolutely. Which I'm sure he can.
00:17:31
Speaker
So i I wrote some stuff down from this episode. and we We didn't talk about the Saeed and Hurley little thing at the end where Hurley gives Saeed the radio that Bernard had and is able to makeshift that into ah radio and hear the music playing at the very end of the episode.
00:17:55
Speaker
So i wonder what that means and if they can do anything with it. I hope it's good for them. I actually noticed that scene myself and the comment Hurley made at the end was was kind of funny where Sayid was like something about, you know, you can listen from any place and he, and Hurley was like, or time.
00:18:16
Speaker
he was like, just kidding, dude. Yeah. But was he? Yeah. You know? So I, wonder I wonder what that could mean.
00:18:31
Speaker
So I'm very i'm very confused. Clearly that would have to mean something, right? Like they wouldn't just throw in little tidbit like that for no reason, or would they? Yeah, I mean, it's a lost. it's It's lost. Everything means something.
00:18:44
Speaker
A few things that I wrote down, like the the show itself even painted Lucia to be the bad guy the whole time because she was super adamant about wanting the combo. Mm-hmm.
00:18:58
Speaker
You know, and it we kind of felt like we were in on the... ah we Like, we knew something that the rest of the island didn't. And Sawyer kind of... Like, we almost felt like we were in Kate's position.
00:19:10
Speaker
So, I mean, there were a bunch of cons this episode. Conned Locke and Jack for the guns, as well as conning Cassidy in that whole scenario. i also do want to say, and the very, very end...
00:19:24
Speaker
like where he meets up with Charlie and we find out that it is Charlie. the The ending shot is fantastic. Or I, at least I love it where it's half of Sawyer's face in the dark and half of it, you know, not, I i loved that.
00:19:38
Speaker
Like that was probably like the highlight for me or at least cinematography wise. And then I wrote down some, some Sawyer quotes here. calls Anna Lucia, Anna Lulu. He calls Cassidy dimples.
00:19:51
Speaker
He calls sun, Tokyo Rose. yeah And then when he's entering in the combo on the computer, he says, I'm getting a high school i'm getting a new high score on Donkey Kong. I loved that line. Yes, it was so good.
00:20:04
Speaker
Yeah, and then Jack asks for his lock, and said, oh, he went to the store for a pack of cigarettes. You know, like, just funny banter like that had to write down.
00:20:18
Speaker
Oh, he was in his element this episode, running the long time. really was. Cracking jokes and nicknames on everybody. Yeah.
Introduction of Henry Gale in 'One of Them'
00:20:29
Speaker
All right, awesome. Well, let's jump into episode 14, titled One of Them.
00:20:34
Speaker
And this one is a Saeed-centric episode. I know that you you did not guess that one at the end and caught you by surprise. And this is the one that introduces us to the mysterious character I alluded to earlier. So how'd you feel, Nick, when this episode started?
00:20:50
Speaker
I mean, as soon as it started, I knew it was a Saeed episode. You know, military situation, explosions, Arabic. i'm like, Saeed. And so it seems like this took place before his other two flashbacks.
00:21:05
Speaker
Yes. like So we're we're at the earliest sign. um And it's it's hectic. That's certainly what it is.
00:21:17
Speaker
Yeah. I think this is during the first Gulf War. Said's an Iraqi soldier. they're burning documents with fellow soldiers. And then we're just getting his crucial backstory about his military experience.
00:21:29
Speaker
Yeah. We see him get captured by these American soldiers. And it's intense, right? Like, ah the whole the whole thing was really intense. And and I feel like the the flashbacks throughout this episode were really strong.
00:21:45
Speaker
and And you can see Saeed learning the interrogation techniques, like, as the episode goes on. Exactly, and it it's interesting how he goes he goes from being the unwilling participant in the flashbacks to the on-island shift, which I'll talk about later, where he's little more willing at this juncture.
00:22:06
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And he's working also with an American interrogator who's wanting him to get information out of his commanding officer. So there's this whole psychological game being played. And Kate's stepdad is even involved.
00:22:22
Speaker
So he makes an appearance and kind of brings us back to that whole concept of seven degrees of separation again, which Lost does so well with Kate's parents making an appearance in the past two episodes. Did you happen to catch Kate's mom in the Sawyer episode?
00:22:38
Speaker
No. She was the waitress. And that was Kate's dad? Yeah. or Her stepdad. Yeah. Oh, that was totally her. Diane. Yeah.
00:22:51
Speaker
Wow. Okay. Pretty crazy. They're throwing lot of Kate characters. Wow. Okay. Yeah, that's insane. I did not notice that at all. Wow.
00:23:02
Speaker
Dang. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, talking about those those flashbacks, though, I mean, he he's very conflicted, right? Because he doesn't want to betray his soldiers, but, you know, he's also trying to survive and get through war here, and, you know, it's hard.
00:23:24
Speaker
It is, yeah. And, again, these flashbacks just really show us how Saeed became the person he is. someone who understands both sides of interrogation, and that becomes crucial for the on-island storyline.
00:23:40
Speaker
Speaking of on-island, can we just talk about Rousseau randomly showing up again? We sure can. like and And I said this, I think I said this either an episode ago or two episodes ago, ah where i where I mentioned that we hadn't seen her in a while.
00:23:57
Speaker
You did, yeah. Every time she's on screen, something insane is going to happen.
00:24:06
Speaker
And we hadn't seen her in since she lied to everyone at the end of season one. So her methods confuse me.
00:24:18
Speaker
Yeah, Danielle Rousseau is like the harbinger of island weirdness. She comes to Saeed saying she caught someone in one of her traps and she needs his help.
00:24:31
Speaker
Yeah, and first of all, that's extremely vague. And then they get to the trap, and there's this guy who's hanging from a tree, he looks up, you know, beat up and scared, you know? Yeah, and then he's frantically trying to communicate who he is to them and try to get them to let him down and not be skeptical of him. He says he's Henry Gale, a man from Minnesota crashed on the island while traveling via hot air balloon.
00:25:03
Speaker
Okay, at the very start, I felt very sorry for him. You know, sure his wife died, he buried her, and he crashed his hot air balloon, which is a stretch, but it seems possible.
00:25:16
Speaker
And then Danielle shoots him in the back, claiming that he's one of them. Yeah, that was intense. And I also love the dialogue after that with Danielle and Saeed about what he should do with him next. Saeed's like, oh what do I do next?
00:25:34
Speaker
And she's like, well, you know, take him to your doctor. and then you talk to him, Saeed. If I recall, that's something you're good at, obviously implying interrogation.
00:25:45
Speaker
Yeah.
Debate on Henry Gale Treatment
00:25:46
Speaker
And he's kind of in the middle because his instincts believe Rousseau because she's been right about others before. But also, if he is an innocent man, that's a no-no. That's a no good.
00:26:01
Speaker
Exactly. And when they bring Henry back to the hatch, it creates this huge moral dilemma for everybody else. Jack wants to treat him humanely. He's like, haven't you guys treated him? Like, he comes up when Saeed was already drilling him, and he's like, you guys gonna you guys gonna help this guy? And Locke's like, yeah, we were trying to get some answers out of him.
00:26:23
Speaker
You know, Locke's very suspicious. Mm-hmm. I mean, the scenes in The Hatch with with Henry are extremely tense. The actor did an amazing job and he's playing scared and helpless, but he's he's unsettling and that's where I think i think he is in Other.
00:26:47
Speaker
And Danielle said, like, Danielle said, it's going to take him a long time before he breaks. So, you know, like, keep keep questioning him because it's going to be a while.
00:27:00
Speaker
um And so I think Saeed will probably get through to him. That's why I really want to watch the next set of episodes because I want to know what happens with this new character. Right. And Saeed is very adamant on telling Jack, do not untie him.
00:27:16
Speaker
Yeah. And I love the whole Saeed lock thread here too, where Saeed kind of takes lock off to the side and talks him into changing the combination of the armory. And really plays the lock against Jack even further, saying we both know he's going have issues with what needs to be done.
00:27:34
Speaker
And then the look on Jack's face when he realizes that he's been duped and he sees Saeed lock himself in the armory.
00:27:43
Speaker
ah It's fantastic, actually. I'm really, really, really big fan of that dupe and Jack's reaction as well. I mean, he questions lock.
00:27:55
Speaker
changing the combo. But, I mean, Jack had, you know, had plans of getting the guns and all the kind of things where he wanted to take all the, you know, everything. and doesn't matter about the guns now because Sawyer's got them, but that's what he wanted. And the scenes with Saeed and Henry now at this point are jaw-dropping.
Saeed's Interrogation Technique
00:28:15
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:28:18
Speaker
And i think something that i I picked up on at least one of his interrogation techniques is he would ask a question. And if Henry gave any sort of vague, you know, any sort of vagueness, yeah it was like, like, oh yeah, I did like, like, oh, I was at my job.
00:28:38
Speaker
Immediately, what is your job? Like, oh I'm in mining, mining what? You know, like like immediately asking these things that if you weren't prepared, if you didn't, if if this wasn't like true and you weren't as prepared as he was, I think you would kind of get ratted out. So, and the whole thing, my name is Saeed Jara and I am a, and I'm a torturer. He's so, like that was, I mean, that was really cool.
00:29:08
Speaker
Yeah. That was really, really cool.
00:29:12
Speaker
Yeah, it was really cool. Back to the Locke and Jack thing before I touch more on the Saeed. The other thing that was kind of hilarious is after that happened, Locke comes into the room while Jack's cleaning up the bloody towels.
00:29:27
Speaker
And he's like trying to talk to Jack and Jack's like, shut up.
00:29:33
Speaker
Which I thought was hilarious. Yeah.
00:29:37
Speaker
Yeah, he's pissed. Yeah, he's pissed. But this episode was so good as it it showed Saeed's original struggle, like I talked about earlier, with being a torturer. But here on the island in the aftermath of Shannon's death, he's just over it and he's owning it.
00:29:53
Speaker
And how powerful was the scene where he's asking Henry, how many shovelfuls did it take you when you buried your wife? And Henry's crying out, I don't know, I don't know, because Saeed's getting really animated with him. And Saeed breaks down crying saying, you would remember how deep.
00:30:11
Speaker
You would remember burying the woman you love if it was true. So powerful. I mean, Saeed, this whole episode was fantastic. The actor also did a fantastic job of getting that across and it kind of it makes me want to be a little less harsh on the relationship that Saeed and Shannon had because you know yeah he really did care for her and while they were kind of gross in my opinion i mean
00:30:41
Speaker
yeah's it's honorable how much he loved her sure Saeed gets really dark and just kind of starts beaten on Henry and we kind of get a little dark Jack and holds Locke against the wall and threatens him with the button and Locke agrees he opens the door but he's a little late on the timer and some hieroglyphics happen where the numbers usually are in the hatch and it just gets crazy it does what what do you think about those
00:31:22
Speaker
I have no idea. I literally have no idea. I have no idea what they mean. i don't know. i have nothing. Zero zip nada. Okay. Yeah, I'm afraid my lips are sealed on that one, young Padawan.
00:31:37
Speaker
Once you make it through some of your lost Jedi trials, maybe I will fill you in on what's going on there.
00:31:44
Speaker
I'll do my best. Alright. Can we talk about the the side plot for this episode with Sawyer and the dang tree frog?
Sawyer's Comic Subplot
00:31:53
Speaker
Yes.
00:31:55
Speaker
Yeah, while all this heavy moral drama is happening, Sawyer is being driven insane by a tree frog that won't stop croaking at night. As usual, Sawyer thinks that everyone is out to get him, so he thinks this tree frog is targeting him.
00:32:11
Speaker
And... He recruits Hurley to help him find it. So they're kind of trekking across the jumble jungle, which is always fun when they're together. Obviously, the image of Sawyer just kind stomping through the jungle throughout this is is pure comedy gold.
00:32:25
Speaker
Yeah. And then he finally catches it And crushes it in his hand. And it's, again, such a dark character moment disguised as comic relief. But, you know, for me, not a good run of episodes for Sawyer as I feel like his character arc has regressed again.
00:32:42
Speaker
It's kind of back to being emo, broody Sawyer. Yeah. I agree. I'm not a big fan, but the level of acting is amazing.
00:32:53
Speaker
Yeah. And i will stand by that. And Hurley's reaction to that was perfect. And it shows the characters and like for who they are and at their core.
00:33:11
Speaker
Absolutely, yeah. Those two are like polar opposites. Hurley's such a good, genuine, caring person. And we've seen Sawyer the last couple episodes. Tiger doesn't change stripes.
00:33:27
Speaker
Yeah. And the whole tree frog subplot also serves as a metaphor for how small irritations like that can really drive someone to extreme actions, which kind of parallels the larger story about torture and moral compromise as well. Right.
00:33:44
Speaker
I mean, I didn't even catch that. I feel like there are a lot of layers that I don't catch, but I'm glad that you caught them.
00:33:55
Speaker
And speaking of layers, let's talk about the ending. The episode ends with some moral questions still hanging in the air. We don't know for sure if Henry is telling the truth or not. But Saeed is awfully convinced that he's an imposter and another.
00:34:09
Speaker
And in a moving scene with Charlie on the beach, he says a lot of great things. And I'm sure you wrote some of them down. we'll bring them up here in a second. I did. But kind of ends it with, you know basically, Locke and Jack have forgotten what they did to Claire, what they did to you, but have you forgotten, Charlie, what they did to you?
00:34:29
Speaker
um mean, it was heavy. It was heavy. And the ending was perfect. Like, seriously, I feel like they... they You could go either ways with Henry. Like, I i do think he is another.
00:34:43
Speaker
I think he is another. But... Yeah. I think very easily you could think... that he is innocent. Oh, for sure.
00:34:54
Speaker
I mean, if if he is another, he did a great job of acting as if he was not. Yeah, I really think he did. And I do like that Saeed brings that up with the whole, i haven't forgotten that they took Claire, that they tried to kill you, you know, that they have killed others, you know, or have killed, no, I shouldn't say others, that they've killed other people.
00:35:19
Speaker
So if we have one, you know, if there is one and we have, we have them here, have the chance to do what needs to be done. Let's do it.
00:35:33
Speaker
Exactly. I mean, some some notes that I took from this episode. i i wanted to mention the different lighting in the flashbacks is what I noticed.
Saeed's Internal Struggle
00:35:45
Speaker
When they were outside, the lighting was a lot more, like, white versus when um they were in ah ah Iraq and the lighting was a lot more yellowy-brown on the outsides.
00:35:59
Speaker
You know, like, so I definitely noticed that. I thought that was really cool. I really didn't like Tariq. Yeah. He was my least favorite.
00:36:10
Speaker
He sucked. He did. a really a really great line, few actually that I have. First of all, Sawyer calls Hurley Barbar, and Hurley even corrects him and goes, it's Babar.
00:36:27
Speaker
And I mean, the the dynamic between the two of them is amazing. Yeah. Like, like, actually amazing. I really like getting to see that kind of dynamic. Even if I didn't, I didn't really love the side plot this episode, just because I thought it was a little goofy.
00:36:47
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, only involved two characters. But, you know, i still do appreciate that line.
00:36:57
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I think they were trying to keep the momentum with Sawyer coming off the previous episode. And also Hurley just hasn't been getting a lot of screen time. So i think they were trying to find a way to keep him in the game.
00:37:10
Speaker
Probably that that checks out.
00:37:14
Speaker
Another thing I like is when they bring Henry in and Jack goes, you shot him with an arrow. And Saeed goes, do I have a bow?
00:37:24
Speaker
So, i mean, i really did like that line it' so much that I wrote it down. So it was it was important. And then the last line that I want to mention was Saeed's line at the end.
00:37:39
Speaker
Jack asked me how I know he is an other. And he said, it's because I felt no guilt torturing him. And I feel no guilt now. yeah And he was like, and that's not something I can explain to him.
00:37:54
Speaker
ah Orlok and they won't understand. Right. And he's like, you under you might understand because they've done, the others have done this to you. And you have not forgotten.
00:38:05
Speaker
Unlike these two. Yeah, that was good.
00:38:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:15
Speaker
Yeah, what a great episode. What a what a great group of episodes to talk about tonight. Yeah. yeah
00:38:24
Speaker
So you are you are definitely on the opinion that Henry Gale is an other? Yes. One thousand percent. Okay. I think what cemented it was um the look that Henry Gale gave Saeed as Jack was pulling him off of him.
00:38:47
Speaker
Or while they were closing the armory door. and And Henry Gale gave him one look. And that look was, for me, that was the nail in the coffin.
00:39:03
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
00:39:07
Speaker
Okay, cool. Any other closing thoughts on that episode specifically? I think it is BS and a terrible lie that his balloon crashed on the island.
00:39:22
Speaker
okay I don't think that's even remotely possible or feasible or even remotely close to true. yeah You know, like, and and where'd bury her? oh right next to the balloon.
00:39:33
Speaker
That was an extremely lazy answer from Henry. Yeah. And the balloon, i mean, we don't even know where the balloon is at.
00:39:44
Speaker
Like, we haven't, run I mean, if we haven't seen a balloon yet, and we've been, we've been around the island, No balloon? That's not a good sign, Henry. I really do think he's another, but I probably actually will watch an episode later tonight on... I'll watch the next one and I'll take more notes.
00:40:03
Speaker
um Because I am very intrigued. you You probably should. You probably should just watch the next two. I mean, it's only two days till our next recording.
00:40:13
Speaker
Just do it. and That way, if you want to re-watch anything before then, like, you know...
00:40:21
Speaker
That's true.
00:40:25
Speaker
Well, let's get into our favorite segment, Most Love, Most Hated, portion of our podcast where we talk about which characters are the most loved for that episode, who is trending up, and then who is also the reverse of that, trending down, and who we're hating at the current moment.
00:40:41
Speaker
So as per usual, Nick, please kick us off.
Character Growth and Regression
00:40:46
Speaker
I've been saying it a lot recently, but I felt it was very hard this week for my bottom three. Yeah.
00:40:52
Speaker
I'm going to go most hated at Tariq. I think that was an obvious one for me. Second most hated, i have um Gordy. And in the yeah the the one, or the um I guess the least most hated, if you will, was Henry Gale.
00:41:13
Speaker
Okay. However, just to just to get a good sense of what my brain is thinking, because I kind of just said like three filler characters from the episodes, which doesn't really give a lot of, you know, insight. So let me talk about some of the other characters that I would have put down there if I didn't hate these other characters with every single fiber of my being.
00:41:37
Speaker
We got some Dark Jack this set of episodes, and i Wow, I mean, it was kind of crazy. Dark Jack on the... Towards the end of ah one of them, ah the second one we talked about, where he has Locke pressed against the wall, and he says, i don't think anything will happen if you don't push that button.
00:41:58
Speaker
Right. You know, and, like, like he's, like, insane. Like, the acting on, i believe, his Matthew Fox... Matthew Fox, yep. I think he did an amazing job there. And I don't i don't really like Dark Jack, but the acting on that was fantastic. I also didn't like Jack that great on the um but Long Con episode either.
00:42:21
Speaker
and thought he was kind of rude to Sawyer. Yeah. And then also he made a really big deal about, guns and the guns and the guns and the guns and the guns and the guns.
00:42:32
Speaker
So he was he was kind of down there in that realm. I can't have Charlie that high either. I'm actually surprised. I wanted to put him on my bottom three. The reason he's not is just because, again, i don't want to i don't want but too I don't want to put Charlie down there if I'm not going to put another character down there. If I'm putting Tariq and or you know yeah matt Henry Gale and Gordy down there, then I don't want to put too many main characters down there and like kind of...
00:42:59
Speaker
skew things like when I went on my Walt hate train and had Walt at the bottom for like three or four episodes in a row. Yeah. So I don't i don't really i don't want to do that. So he would have been down there and and not because he did anything bad this episode besides what he did to Son.
00:43:16
Speaker
Even if it was Sawyer's idea, Charlie still went through with it. So Charlie is in my, you know, sin bin box, you know, a penalty box, whatever.
00:43:27
Speaker
hmm. Uh, Sawyer was not trending upwards either. He's kind of regressing and i hate it. It's the worst. Killing the frog yeah was also like, oh, hated that.
00:43:41
Speaker
I actually wrote down in my notes, I really don't want him to kill the frog. And then it's a period. And then the next thing is yeah sad period. Yeah. So, i mean, you can really get a sense of,
00:43:53
Speaker
you know, the the the emotional rollercoaster I was on. But I am really sad that he's kind of regressing. So he's not really up there. um As for top three, haven't really put much thought into top three.
00:44:09
Speaker
But I do know my number one. My number one is 100% Saeed. 1000% Saeed. one thousand percent sight yeah I need him up there just because, i mean, he's Saeed.
00:44:20
Speaker
yeah his His episode was fantastic. And um I mean, seriously, I feel like we haven't gotten enough of him recently. So this was really refreshing to see this. And his speeches, he had like one or two or three speeches throughout this episode. And ah chef's kiss, they were beautiful.
00:44:39
Speaker
So he is my most loved. My second most loved... We'll probably have to go to Hurley, is what I'm thinking right now.
00:44:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, it's been to go to Hurley. i I don't know. I feel like it's been a while since I've had Hurley up there, and it's because he's kind of been overshadowed by other characters. But I don't think there's any other characters that overshadow him this episode.
00:45:01
Speaker
So I really want to put him up there. Like, you know, I would put, like... Like, if I'm thinking of other characters, I put a lot of them in my bottom realm, you know? Yeah. would put Kate up there, but Kate really... I mean, i feel like Kate didn't really have any redeeming qualities in these two episodes.
00:45:19
Speaker
She kind of just existed. i mean, she's betrayed by Sawyer, but she didn't really have any, like... Yeah, she got betrayed. know, like, oh, wow. You know, like... But that's kind of it, so that's why she's not up there. um You know, there's there's a few other characters where that happened, or happens.
00:45:36
Speaker
um So for that, I have Hurley kind of as like a, like a, ah there is no other option for me kind of thing, where I want Hurley in my top three.
00:45:47
Speaker
yeah And then my my my my last spot, my least loved out of the three, will go to Locke. Which again, i don't I don't know how I feel. i did agree with Locke, and I did like the Locke and Saeed team up in ah one of them. Really big fan of that.
00:46:04
Speaker
I think in the Sawyer episodes, he was a little too worried about the guns, which doesn't really seem like Locke. I feel like he would be a little more flexible.
00:46:18
Speaker
considering his character. ah That's just me, though, right what I think. So that's why he's there. Characters that I'm really mad that we didn't see more of, ah Echo. We didn't see Echo at all these two episodes, which I'm really frustrated about because he's such a cool character.
00:46:36
Speaker
And he has had, he had that string where he had, you know, the Echo episode, which was beautiful. It was lovely. And yeah He's gone. He's off the face of the earth. So I hope we get more Echo soon.
00:46:50
Speaker
we will. He'll be back. and And so i'm I'm really excited to see him. I'm still wondering where Rose is. i hope Rose and Bernard get some screen time together because I do really want to see them.
00:47:02
Speaker
Bernard's a dentist, by the way. That's exactly what Hurley said. But that's that's my you know food for thought on my most loved and most hated.
00:47:14
Speaker
right. I like it. Um, it it is really tough. These two episodes, especially just with, cause usually you're picking the characters that the episode is centered around. At least one of those is usually in the top three.
00:47:28
Speaker
I would say for me, most hated. oh yeah. it's It is tough this week. you're You're not, you're not wrong there, my friend. Yeah. I mean, I could definitely go with the two off Islanders that you put in there.
00:47:42
Speaker
Gordy and Tariq. Um, yeah.
00:47:46
Speaker
Anna Lucia's in mine until further notice. She hasn't done anything to redeem her out of it yet. she hasn't even she but she didn't even She had nothing to do with the guns that the you know in um Long Con.
00:47:59
Speaker
She was safe. she kind of prying about it? Yeah, but... She had the that same Anna Lucia scowl on her face, and that was enough for me to have her in the bottom three.
00:48:12
Speaker
Okay. Wow. All right. No, don't be sorry. It's your opinion.
00:48:19
Speaker
And then top three. Yeah, top three is super hard. I'm actually probably going to shock you a little bit by how I do my top three this time.
00:48:31
Speaker
Okay. No, I don't know. I don't know. I don't think I can do it. I was going to say i was still going to put Sawyer in my top three just because of the character of Sawyer and the acting and yeah all of that. But when I think about what he did to Cassidy off-island, then I can't.
00:48:48
Speaker
I just can't do it. Yeah. So I agree. Saeed absolutely is probably the at the top. Even though he didn't have that much of a part in Long Con, but...
00:49:03
Speaker
One of them is my by far my favorite Saeed episode so far and and is a great episode. Who else?
00:49:14
Speaker
I think I would have to i would have to agree that Locke still has to stay in the top three. i do agree that Jack was a little little annoying these episodes. i mean ah I see where he's coming from, even on the medicine with Sawyer.
00:49:33
Speaker
It's not your medicine, Sawyer. We need it for everybody. I get where he was coming from on that. I also get how he was backed into the corner by Locke when he changed the combination and he's out there listening as a doctor with the Hippocratic Oath and all of that.
00:49:48
Speaker
And then he's hearing Sawyer getting the crap beat out of him. So I get that also, but I don't think he did anything to be in the top three. Agree with you on Kate. you know She got shwindled by sawyer multiple times in the long run and didn't really do that much.
00:50:05
Speaker
Hurley's Hurley to me didn't have enough to be in the top three. Although I'm going to, I'm going to say something now that's going to contradict that because my other top three is someone you mentioned who hasn't been in the episodes, but he's just such a great character that I think he deserves to be there. And that's Mr. Echo.
00:50:24
Speaker
Mr. Echo is in my top three and until someone knocks him out. All right. That's fair. but yeah That's my story and I'm sticking to it. and I like it.
00:50:40
Speaker
Awesome.
Recap and Future Episode Setup
00:50:41
Speaker
That's a wrap for our deep dive into episodes 13 and 14. We explored a lot of themes these episodes. Some manipulation, morality, and the introduction of what looks to be a very strong and hopefully long-running character on the show.
00:51:03
Speaker
Uh, these, i mean, you just said that and now I think he's going to like die next episode. That's totally what's going to happen. As soon as you said the long running character, he's gone. Yeah. Oh my God. Maybe these episodes, you know, really hit you on the psychological complexity, especially Saeed's, you know, Henry Gale and Sawyer's cons.
00:51:27
Speaker
We're, we're entering a new phase the show and I'm, I'm all for it. I'm very excited.
00:51:34
Speaker
Absolutely. And before we close, let's let's do what we've kind of started institutionalizing again. And let's talk about the next couple of titles and see if you can guess what we have coming
Predictions for 'Maternity Leave'
00:51:47
Speaker
up here. So the next two, first one, episode 15, will be called Maternity Leave.
00:51:55
Speaker
Okay, Claire. Yeah, that one's pretty that one's pretty simple. And it's interesting that, you know, the thing Lost does so well is when it's getting ready to have these character-centric episodes, the callbacks in the previous episodes.
00:52:10
Speaker
So, like, at the end of Saeed's episode, he's talking about, you know, Claire disappeared and God knows what happened to her, right? are we going to find out about that? And then we're moving into that episode.
00:52:22
Speaker
So, i don't know what we're going I'm excited. I really want to find out about that. Yeah, I can't say that we're going to find out anything. You know, it might just be about Claire back in Oklahoma or wherever she was.
00:52:34
Speaker
I really hope we do. I really, really, really hope we do. Me too. I've like been wanting to know that for so long. And especially that when Saeed brought it back up, I was like, oh yeah, forgot about that.
00:52:46
Speaker
i have been dying, that and I wanted to redeem the other Claire episode. Even though it's your favorite, I dislike it so much. Yeah, don't use the word redeem on that episode. Come on I mean, it i'm I'm very excited ah to see this Claire episode, actually.
00:53:04
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:53:08
Speaker
Good, good. Yeah, it's a good one. And then episode 16 is called The Whole Truth.
00:53:16
Speaker
The Whole Truth.
00:53:20
Speaker
Yep. Hmm.
00:53:25
Speaker
Okay.
00:53:29
Speaker
Uh...
00:53:33
Speaker
I have no idea. is Is it a character that we've seen a lot of recently, or is it a character that has been under the radar? That's my first question.
00:53:46
Speaker
Um... They haven't really been under the radar. No, we've seen we've seen plenty of them.
00:53:54
Speaker
Okay.
00:53:57
Speaker
I guess it could be Kate. That's my guess is Kate.
00:54:03
Speaker
Is that your guess? That's my guess.
00:54:09
Speaker
It is not Kate. Okay. All right. Interesting.
00:54:16
Speaker
So we will leave the the rest to fate and allow you to find out on your own.
00:54:22
Speaker
Yes, we will.
00:54:26
Speaker
Okay. Interesting. Awesome.
Podcast Conclusion and Listener Theories
00:54:29
Speaker
Thank you listeners for joining us on this journey. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review. And as always, we love hearing your non-spoilery thoughts as Nick goes through his first journey of watching Lost.
00:54:43
Speaker
And please send us your theories about Henry Gale. i I want to make sure I'm not alone. I'm thinking he's an other. And do that to send those to lostwithmyunclepod at gmail.com.
00:54:54
Speaker
Again, that's lostwithmyunclepod at gmail.com. I am dying, literally dying, Henry Gale level dying to know what you guys think.
00:55:07
Speaker
And until next time, keep questioning.
00:55:12
Speaker
Until next time, don't trust anybody. Or maybe trust everyone. I don't know.
00:55:23
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know anymore.
00:55:37
Speaker
are