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The Significance of Dragon Ball || Chatsu-Nani?!
114 Plays9 months ago
In this episode, Satsunami and Andrew discuss the significance of the Dragon Ball franchise on their childhoods growing up as well as what it means to them today. On behalf of everyone at Chatsunami, we want to thank Akira Toriyama for the impact that his incredible work left behind on the world.
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Review it Yourself
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Transcript
Introduction and Weather Discussion
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:16
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami. My name's Chatsunami and joining me today is none other than the champion in training himself. It is the one and only Andrew. Andrew, welcome back to the show. I wish I could come back and do another episode of anime and here you are. Yeah, how are you doing tonight? I'm good, thank you. It's late in the evening here and I know it's even later in the evening where you are. It had signs of spring but it's still winter over in Canada. I don't know what it's like over there just now
00:00:46
Speaker
Well, in the words of a very famous philosopher, it is raining sideways here.
Akira Toriyama's Legacy in Anime
00:00:52
Speaker
But yeah, today we are coming to you and bringing you a little bit more of a somber episode today. We've put this episode off for a while because a couple of weeks ago, as of recording this episode on the 1st of March, 2024, we got the extremely sad news that
00:01:11
Speaker
creator of the Dragon Ball series as well as a whole host of other franchises Akira Toriyama sadly passed away at the age of 68 due to subdermal hematoma. I think he died in the first of March and then they announced it a week later. It's absolutely both heartwarming and surprising at how much people were shocked by this.
00:01:34
Speaker
I mean, did you notice that as well when you walked into Twitter and it was just an absolute outpouring of people giving their thanks to Akira Toriyama? Yeah, I mean it was remarkable. It wasn't just Twitter. There were BBC news articles all about it. It had very much brought
00:01:49
Speaker
broken into mainstream discussion that this manga creator, this mangaka, who had developed and fostered so many wonderful stories for the last four decades had passed away, that what he had created left such a mark on both those in Japan and Far East, as well as in the Western world, that his work
00:02:09
Speaker
is arguably what paved the way for this new era of Japanese animation in the West and the popularization of it. It is
Anime's Western Evolution
00:02:17
Speaker
remarkable what he accomplished and we're just going to talk a little bit today about what that meant to us. Absolutely, because that was something I was telling you before we started recording tonight, that the landscape of anime was a
00:02:30
Speaker
completely different beast compared to what it is nowadays because you really take streaming services, whether it's Crunchyroll, whether it's Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney+, all of these, well maybe not Disney+, but I'll get there soon, I'm sure, but most of them nowadays have some form of
00:02:50
Speaker
of anime shows, whether it's mainstream ones, whether it's maybe more obscure ones. But when we were growing up in, I'm exposing our age here so apologies Andrew, but we are children of the 90s. We were born in the 90s and when we were growing up in the 90s in the early 2000s
00:03:08
Speaker
Anime was in its somewhat infancy. I know technically around the late 80s, I want to say early 90s, Anime was coming over to the west and it was more in the form of fan dubbed video tapes. So you would buy them from, I don't know, some convention or something like that and they would be dubbed by just a fan of the series. So the subtitles wouldn't be so much
00:03:34
Speaker
accurate but of course that was before our time so and I say before our time like just before our time when we were growing up a lot of anime started to become a little bit more mainstream I think that's obviously due to a wide range of actors like Studio Ghibli and their collaborations with companies like Disney to bring their films over but as well for television in particular and this is something we're going to touch on later with Dragon Ball but we had shows like
00:04:04
Speaker
Pokemon, Sailor Moon, I mean technically there was Akira as well but we didn't really watch that when we were younger.
Influence of Anime Creators on Western Acceptance
00:04:10
Speaker
But you know these kind of anime that were coming over, especially for kids, One Piece as well, Digimon, I know they kind of came later but it was amazing to see that this genre really grew arms and legs as you went through the 90s and early 2000s because am I right in saying Andrew that being an anime fan wasn't really as looked on
00:04:32
Speaker
favorably compared to what it's like nowadays. It certainly wasn't mainstream enough that your average person would even necessarily know what anime was, could name an anime. Whereas now, even if you don't like anime, if you're not really interested in it, you could still likely name at least one or two anime titles. It's not just sort of being disparaged in the same way as it once was. There is still by many a stigma around it, in some cases justified. Check out our perfect blue episode for more information.
00:05:02
Speaker
hahaha
00:05:03
Speaker
But it has developed in society a level of acceptance and interest in this medium. And as I said earlier, I think we can largely thank those like Kira Toriyama for the stories that he created, not necessarily that he distributed over into the Western world, but that his stories were so impactful to a Japanese audience that it was felt that this should be brought over. And it was because of that, that studios like Funimation were created specifically to bring the likes of Dragon
00:05:32
Speaker
and ball over. It is remarkable where we are now, and I've mentioned about Akira Toriyama's work influencing the shift in how anime is perceived in the West, but it's not just that insular, like it's so many mangaka in Japan were influenced by Akira Toriyama's work.
00:05:48
Speaker
Oda, who made one piece, there's so many different manga curves, the creator of Bleach, the creator of Yu Yu Hakusho, who also created Hunter x Hunter. There's so many that quote saying, I would not likely be in this industry if not for what Akira Toriyama did.
Dragon Ball's Cultural Impact in the West
00:06:07
Speaker
Toriyama is such an important figure in Japan and in Japanese animation. Necessarily was part of the animation process, but just his stories were just so, so important.
00:06:16
Speaker
again this is like Colin Waterway here but especially in the anime sphere he is just such an iconic figure and it's amazing the ripples that his series in particular Dragon Ball has made not only in the world of anime of course because there's so many creators whether that be mangaka or
00:06:36
Speaker
anime creators who have taken his work in drawing influence from it, but even in the sense of Western animation as well. I remember, and this sounds like such a weird aside, but do you remember a show called Kids Next Door? Codename Kids Next Door. That's the one, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm familiar.
00:06:53
Speaker
Yeah, even shows like that and other cartoons at the time were copying Dragon Ball, and I mean like in one-off episodes, not a whole show, but there was episodes where, you know, they make fun of the silly power-ups, the big hair, almost showmanship as it were for these fights, and it's just, it's crazy to think that they did it, but not in a way of, ha ha, this is ridiculous, but they kind of leaned into it, because inherently Dragon Ball on the outset is a
00:07:22
Speaker
very very silly series but when you look into it and you actually watch these characters go on their journeys together and I know there's the cliche that oh they're going together as friends and things but there's honestly so much more to this entire series than I think maybe people don't really realise. For those who have been living under a rock for the past 30 plus years, do you want to give a quick brief synopsis of what the kind of story of Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z
00:07:52
Speaker
The story of Dragon Ball, at least for the original series, was heavily influenced by the Chinese story Journey to the West, but instead of focusing on the Monkey King and that story Sun Wukong and a bunch of eccentric characters trying to get from one place to the other, it focused on a young boy called Sun Goku who had a monkey tail.
Overview of Dragon Ball Storylines
00:08:14
Speaker
Trust me, that'll be important later.
00:08:16
Speaker
he met his friends along the way and they essentially have to gather these magical orbs called Dragon Balls which when all seven are collected they get a magical wish and every couple of episodes they have to fight adversaries and villains and try and stop them from taking over the world. It's kind of rinse and repeat for the most part whether that is Dragon Ball Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT and
00:08:42
Speaker
Super but throughout the series it began as a somewhat fantasy adventure in Dragon Ball. Then we get to Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Z's a lot more like a teenage action sci-fi show where it's revealed that Goku was actually an alien from a race of warriors called the Saiyans and really Dragon Ball Z's about him coming to terms with that and everything and
00:09:07
Speaker
As I said, this is where all the stereotypes about the show come from with the big hair, the power-ups, the screaming and everything. This is where it comes from. This is the iconic part of the series. But then after it ended in 1996,
00:09:22
Speaker
in Japan it ended a lot later in the West but in Japan it ended in 1996. They ended up doing a spin-off series called Dragon Ball GT which was like oh life after Dragon Ball Z. It wasn't really received well so much so that between that and the live action film they did, Toriyama actually came back to do Dragon Ball Super which
00:09:47
Speaker
which again takes place in the future and is the canon continuation where instead of fighting monsters and lab abominations, they start fighting gods and things and it gets a bit silly but we will definitely get on to that. Would you say that's a relatively good summation of the show?
Serialized Storytelling in Western Animation
00:10:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. I think you covered a lot of the basics of what the show is all about. It is very interesting tonally. It's very different to what many even anime had been around that time. You would often get the more child friendly cartoons or you'd get the more action manly heroes like Fist of the North Star.
00:10:27
Speaker
And so Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z kind of emerged as a very unique option for readers and watchers because of the combination of that cartoonish, funny style mixed with action. And so that kind of balance was very unique. And then from a Western perspective for young watchers,
00:10:45
Speaker
You had a serialized cartoon show, which I don't know about you growing up, but that was not particularly common for me. The fact that one episode would lead into the next over an arc, that this kind of concept of there being an arc in a cartoon show was very unique to me. I don't know if you can think of many other examples from around that time that you were watching.
00:11:03
Speaker
Well, the major one, the first thinking of anime, was I suppose Pokémon, but… Was that serialised? It kind of was. I mean, technically, but it's not one of these shows that if you missed an episode then you would be thoroughly lost and especially considering the way the Pokémon anime went where they actually cut out a good few episodes for the list.
00:11:26
Speaker
I was going to quote that, I was like, I don't know, I was pretty confused where all those Tauros came from. I always remember that, where it's like a Mandela Effect, where someone asks, oh, where did the Tauros come from? And I'm like, well, they came from the safari zone when Ash caught them. And then, you know, they turn round with a serious look and go, name the episode, name the episode. And I'm like, um.
00:11:46
Speaker
Because it never came out, as you said. Fun times for the Pokémon fans out there, but seeing that note actually, will we just jump into both how we came across this show, our general thoughts and everything beyond that? Yeah, for sure. Let's power up Kaio-ken part two. Mystic Satsu. I'm from a different timeline. I've got a bow cut. I've got a sword for some reason. And yeah.
00:12:13
Speaker
On that note, we will be right back after these Kaio-ken transmissions. Previously on Chatsunami, we've analysed what makes a good horror game, conducted a retrospective on Pierce Brosnan's runs James Bond, and listened to us take deep dives into both the Sonic and Halo franchises.
00:12:36
Speaker
Also, if you're an anime fan, then don't forget to check us out on our sub-series, Chatsunani, where we dive into the world of anime. So far, we've reviewed things like Death Note, Princess Mononoke, and the hit Beyblade series. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes, and all big podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:13:04
Speaker
Fancy taking the humorous trip down a random topic each week? You do while you're in luck. Casting views presented by me Dan and a host of guests bring you just that. With topics from the world of entertainment, science, sport and everyday life, there's bound to be a topic that's going to inform on the news. Catch Casting Views every Sunday on all listening platforms now.
Personal Dragon Ball Memories
00:13:29
Speaker
So Andrew, before we get into this and discuss what we loved about this show and its significant impact on our lives, as it were, how did you come across this show? Because I don't think I've ever asked you this. You and I met in university as we've spoken about in previous episodes and we kind of bonded over the Dragon Ball Bridge series, which we will definitely get on to later. But I don't think I've ever asked you, how did you actually get into Dragon Ball as a whole?
00:13:59
Speaker
Well, I'm a broken record at this point because it has been often my answer when you've asked that line of question, but it was my brother who was interested in Dragon Ball. Also, to a certain extent, my sister was interested. I remember she used to draw the characters quite often. We'd be on holiday and she'd be drawing Krillin's head. And I was always so fascinated by that and I would try and do that as well. I mean, it's not theoretical, it's not tricky, but when you're four years old, you're like, how do I do this?
00:14:22
Speaker
So my brother would watch it regularly and I would catch it at the same time and he had friends who were really into it. As I mentioned, we had a family friend that I would go to and his walls would be sort of covered in art that he had made of Dragon Ball characters. And I was not as familiar with the first Dragon Ball series, the original Dragon Ball series. I think I must have watched that much later in my life, but I certainly watched Dragon Ball Z growing up.
00:14:46
Speaker
And then I decided when I was in my late teens, I was like, I want to rewatch all of Dragon Ball from the very start. And my brother had been given by my sister a DVD box set of the first half maybe of Dragon Ball. And that was all in Japanese with English subtitles. It was not dubbed, it was subbed. And that was kind
00:15:04
Speaker
kind of my first experience of watching subbed instead of dubbed. Like I had exclusively watched dubbed anime prior to that. And so I even went like, you got the wrong one, silly. This is the Japanese one. We don't want that one. And then I was like, oh wait, no, no, this is better.
00:15:19
Speaker
So I grew up with the series. I have never read the manga. I maybe should at least sort of pick up a copy of one of the manga at some point, just sort of read it. But I watched all of Dragon Ball, all of Dragon Ball Z, did not watch GT, have watched some of the movies, and I watched all of Super when that came out.
00:15:35
Speaker
You know, I was trying to think back and I must have watched this show as early as maybe between five to seven years old. Maybe I was seven, but it would make more sense, but I remember I was a big fan at the time of Cartoon Network, you know, I would watch other shows like Dexter's Lab, Sadly Courage the Cowardly Dog, which gave me nightmares, Cow and Chicken. I hate Cow and Chicken.
00:16:00
Speaker
Yeah, it wasn't a strong list to be honest. I mean there was Johnny Bravo as well when things, you know, all the greats of Western animation. But I remember Cartoon Network at the time and I can't remember if they ended up splitting it off as its own separate channel but at the time there was a sub-series on Cartoon Network called Toonami and it would be like this robot in a spaceship and they would have a cool voice being like, let's see what is
00:16:27
Speaker
coming on today for Goku and friends or what's going to be happening today and you know you got really hyped. It's interesting to hear how you were talking about the Japanese dub because I am convinced that we got a different dub initially for Cartoon Network.
00:16:43
Speaker
For anyone who doesn't know, and this is such a nerdy behind the scenes thing here, but there's two relatively prolific dubs for the English version, at least for the American British versions. There's the Funimation dub, and there was the Ocean dub. And the Ocean dub, I think, was the one that came first, so that is the one. In case anyone's wondering, oh, what one's that? It's the one that, if you've heard the meme or seen the clip of Fujita going, it's
00:17:13
Speaker
over 9000. That kind of silly voice. That is the ocean dub. But then of course later on they ended up moving to Funimation where they had Goku, Sean Schimel and Chris Sabat. He did Piccolo, he did Vegeta, absolutely love his voice because he does all might as well for My Hero Academia. It's just that really deep voice like that is so cool. But going back to my experience with it,
00:17:40
Speaker
But yeah, I ended up watching it there, and it's something that I was saying to you before we started recording as well. But one of the things I vividly remember, and I don't know if you remember this theme song as well, because this is another fun fact, the UK and the US releases of Dragon Ball were the only ones, as far as I know anyway, that got their own unique soundtrack.
00:18:03
Speaker
none of the other countries I've got a friend to I know in Spain who I remember I sent a clip over and they were like Satsu what the hell was this and I was like it's the Super Saiyan 3 theme or oh it's the Vegeta Saiyan theme and they were like no we got the Japanese soundtrack with our dub so why have you got a different version and I always found that fascinating because we got a soundtrack from a composer called Bruce Faulkner
00:18:29
Speaker
whether you love the Faulkner soundtrack or not, it's quite… I wouldn't say controversial. I wouldn't go that far, but it's quite divisive amongst fans. I like it for the most part. I just wish it would stay quiet for some bits that it just decides to play constantly. But yeah, I always find that interesting. But anyway, going back to what I was saying, the intro for the absolutely wonderful song, Rock the Dragon. Do you remember this one? I was wondering when this was going to come up.
00:18:56
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know if I necessarily remember watching as a kid, but I've heard it so often subsequently that it's kind of uncertain in my brain of being like, yep, that's the Dragon Ball theme
Impact of 'Rock the Dragon' Theme Song
00:19:04
Speaker
song. But I probably couldn't have told you that having not watched it for so many years prior that that was kind of the one that was like the song in the Western world. It is such a funny decision of writing this odd song. Yeah, I think I've got the lyrics here. It's Dragon, Dragon, Rock the Dragon, Dragon Ball Z. Excellent lyrics.
00:19:22
Speaker
Does that have anything beyond that or just repeat that over and over again? I can't remember. No, it's they've got like a guitar rift at the beginning and then it's dragon dragon rock the dragon dragon ballsy and then it's another guitar rift. The interesting thing about that intro, and I remember this vividly because I was so confused, is that for some reason the use footage from I want to say The Tree of Might, but I could be wrong, there was a film that they just took
00:19:48
Speaker
the animation from and they just put it in the intro. Why? I have no idea. I genuinely don't know why. But then they changed it I think after the Saiyan saga where they had clips from the show and then they had a purely instrumental theme rather than Rock the Dragon. So that was relatively short lived.
00:20:08
Speaker
And it's just it's weird to think that we had such a different experience with this compared to other places where they get the very subdued and quite calming soundtrack from the Japanese dub, and we've just got to rock the dragon. We always have to be different, don't we? We can't just have what the rest of the world has.
00:20:27
Speaker
Going back to something you were saying about the fact it was syndicated, I remember watching episode after episode and there was actually one time, this is a vivid memory for me, but I remember I was supposed to be going to this youth club and it was the episode where Trunks appeared and he turned super saiyan, but I had to go to this club and I really didn't want to go because I was like, oh my god, it's another super saiyan. And my parents must have just been like, yeah, yeah, yeah, get out of the door.
00:20:56
Speaker
go and go. But I remember watching it up until the Boo saga and I don't think I finished the Boo saga until much later. I kind of fell off of it around that time. Were you the same? Like was it a particular point you fell off? I think it was around the Boo saga that I would have stopped watching. I don't necessarily think it was because I lost interest or anything like that. I think it was just too hard to continually access it. But I certainly didn't watch
00:21:21
Speaker
the end of the Boo saga until much later in my life. I might have been on a rewatch in my teens. I eventually finished that series. Yeah, to be honest, I think I must have been the same because there would have been episodes that I would have missed. I mean, I caught all the core ones like Goku turning into a Super Saiyan for the first time, Trunks appearing, the Cell saga which is still absolutely terrifying when Cell was first introduced.
00:21:45
Speaker
how they got away with showing kids that, I don't know. But Sel used to, at least his first form. That always used to terrify me when I watched that. Yeah, no, I was exactly the same. It was very frightening for a child. And I was saying earlier, I was four or five years old when I was watching this show. It was not appropriate for me to have been watching it really. My parents are very strict about what I watch generally, but I think that one must have slipped under the radar.
00:22:07
Speaker
do you know funny enough my parents are exactly the same they were quite wary about the types of shows i was watching and things like that but with the dragon ball for some reason that absolutely did slip under the radar the scanner yeah the scanner i don't know how
00:22:22
Speaker
it did
Popularity of Dragon Ball Among Children
00:22:23
Speaker
though. I guess it was hiding its power level but yeah that was just such a strange one and what I found hilarious as well. I was thinking back to this when I was in primary school so again between the ages of five to twelve when I must have been watching this and there were loads of people around I think it was around primary
00:22:40
Speaker
four maybe so I must have been about seven or eight and there were kids who wanted to fake fight as the characters. This is how popular it was. It wasn't as popular maybe as Pokémonia or any of the other crazes at the time but the fact that kids were going around being like oh I want to be Trunks, oh you can be Frieza, or oh you can be Goku, nobody got hurt as far as I know. No one actually got punched but it's just crazy thinking back to it. That's how popular this show was.
00:23:09
Speaker
that you had kids trying to do Kamehameha's in the playground. It was so influential to young school kids back in the late 90s or late 2000s. The weird thing about it is we are talking about Dragon Ball Z in particular which is the second series of this show but we never really watched the original show until it came
00:23:31
Speaker
maybe a couple of years later either online or and by a couple of years later I mean far far in the future but it wasn't until much later that both of us did watch it so it's weird to think that although that was the one that probably kicked off a lot of people's passion for Dragon Ball over in Japan maybe or whenever it came over here Dragon Ball Z was the one that I think a lot of millennials who love this show were introduced to. I don't think I've ever heard the same for Dragon Ball GT though
00:24:00
Speaker
No one starts with Dragon Ball GT, that's just not how that works. But yeah, it's interesting that, and I had never really thought about this until quite, I say fairly recently, the fact that you start off with Dragon Ball Z, you already have a character that everyone in the show seems to know and has had adventures, has a child with him, you meet
00:24:16
Speaker
It's a green character who seems to be kind of bad and there's some history there, but we don't really actually explore him ever being really the bad guy. That is some other plot line that we don't get into. And so the lack of context that you receive going into the series in Dragon Ball Z is very interesting and that you're just like, all right, that's fine. Let's just go with this. I can't think of many other properties where that is the case, where you just kind of jump in an already established cannon that you have no access to, that people across the world
Discovering Dragon Ball Series in Sequence
00:24:44
Speaker
have seen.
00:24:44
Speaker
No, you're completely right. That is just such a crazy thought that you could finish Dragon Ball Z, be like, oh, that was a great anime. And then all of a sudden someone's like, you do know there's like a prequel to this, or not really a prequel, but there's a series that came before this and you're like, what? And it's a fully fleshed out series.
00:25:02
Speaker
that is completely... I haven't watched all of it. I'm gonna put my cards on the table here. I haven't watched all of it, but from what I've seen of it, I know it's completely different compared to Dragon Ball Z. It is very fun. I think it is certainly worth the watches.
00:25:19
Speaker
its own isolated story. It's very cool. I was just checking there on what the broadcast situation was for the original Dragon Ball series. And it was actually brought over in 1990 for an English voice dub where they renamed almost all the characters. Goku became zero and the dub was only five episodes and one movie. And then it got test marketed and was never brought to the public because it was so bad. I don't know if you've heard about this, the Lost Dub.
00:25:44
Speaker
This isn't the big green dub, is it? No, I don't think so. It's by Harmony Gold. Oh, a vague way out of this, yeah. And then apparently there was a Japanese version that was broadcast by a Hawaii-based TV slot, but it was like 6am on Tuesdays. That's such a weird time.
00:26:01
Speaker
Yeah, and so it was not easily accessible for a very long time. Funimation, when they got the rights and properly brought it over, they tried in the mid-90s, didn't get very much interest, and it was very low ratings, so they ended up cancelling it. So it wasn't until much later that they had a success with Dragon Ball Z, and then afterwards they were like, alright, let's rerun the Dragon Ball theories later.
00:26:21
Speaker
Well, that is a lot better compared to the one I'm thinking of. I had to quickly Google to make sure I wasn't making this up, but there's a... This is so weird. There's an English dub that was made by a French company called the AB Group, and technically it's known as the AB Group dub, but a lot of people call it the Big Green dub, and I don't know if you've heard much about this one, have you? I've heard of the Ocean dub, but not the Big Green one, I don't think.
00:26:50
Speaker
Oh, it's terrible. It's because they refer to Piccolo as Big Green. They don't even refer to him by name, they just call him, hey, it's Big Green! I don't know how this got by. People listening to this, it's absolutely crazy. There's a scene where I think it's maybe Raditz or it's the dub of Tree of Might, I think, and Piccolo turns up and go hands like,
00:27:13
Speaker
Look, it's big green! I can't believe I'm trying to go and let that boy alone or something really poorly translated. But the other hilarious thing is all the attacks are known as kamehameha. So whenever anybody's powering up, there's an amazing – honestly, go check it out on YouTube. If you don't believe me, listeners, please check it out. It is hilarious. It's like Vegeta's powering up and he's just yelling kamehameha.
00:27:39
Speaker
and everybody just yields it for no reason. Actually it's art is amazing it's gold but I had never heard of this until obviously much later when the internet took off. It's actually crazy though, see growing up with this and the amount of content that we actually missed
00:27:58
Speaker
you know when we were younger as she said we couldn't watch every single episode every week. I'm not saying we had important things to do but we still had stuff to do and you know you get older and would you say see before I go on to how we rekindled our interest in the series would you say that you drifted away from the series naturally the older you go?
00:28:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. There were certainly other shows that kept my interest better than Dragon Ball did, and I just sort of continued on to watching them instead. And it wasn't until my brother was given that DVD by my sister that I kind of got back into it. So yeah, it didn't really cross my mind for many years. And it was very much a nostalgia kind of thing in my early teens, sort of seeing the original Dragon Ball series.
00:28:42
Speaker
funny enough and i use this phrase very loosely when i say i finished it but when i got to the boo saga i was in the summer boat that i just moved away to other shows and you know that way where you just relegate it to nothing more than a childhood memory that oh i watched a show called dragon ball and you know it was great but it had its time and then all of a sudden there was a pity
00:29:07
Speaker
a show on YouTube that a lot of people listening out there and fans of Dragonball will know, and I know you especially know this, it's one of the reasons you and I bonded in university.
Dragon Ball Abridged by Team Four Star
00:29:17
Speaker
That of course being the Dragonballa Bridge series which was created by the absolutely fantastic Team 4 star and long story short for anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, it was a group of creators who decided to dub over the, well initially they dubbed over
00:29:36
Speaker
the early episodes of the series and then they just kept going with it. They were really funny with the way they did it and it blew up because I think before that there was another abridged series and this was a thing at the time that was so popular on the internet and I think the precursor to that was another creator called Little Grebo who did the Yu-Gi-Oh abridged series. Don't worry that's next week's episode but yeah
00:30:04
Speaker
I ended up watching that. I thought it was absolutely hilarious. And then I thought, you know what, maybe I should give Dragon Ball another try. And then I decided I was going to rewatch episodes in YouTube and clips and things. Yeah, I just kind of fell back in love with it. And it wasn't until you and I made each other a university that I think, did I introduce you to Dragon Ball abridged?
00:30:28
Speaker
you did yeah i never heard of it i hadn't really watched much abridged content before i watched when i was in my early mid teens i watched avatar the last airbender abridged that was like just a few episodes that someone did that i thought was like the funniest thing and i watched it very often and it just not aged well it was
00:30:43
Speaker
not made well, jokes did not age well, but it was the only kind of example that I'd encountered before I thought was very funny, kind of parodying a property that I loved. So after that, I hadn't really experienced abridged content. And so when I was supposed to be doing an essay or revising for something, and you had introduced me to Dragon Ball abridged,
00:31:01
Speaker
You were very good. You were like, Andrew, you can't keep watching this. You have to go and do your university work. And I was like, I will, I will, I will. And I like hid in my room and just watched more of them on my phone instead of doing the schoolwork that I very much should have been doing. I was like hiding it from you. Like you're a parent. It was quite amusing. And that continued, not the hiding, the watching of the abridged series continued far after university that they've stopped doing it now as of two or three years ago. It might even been longer ago than that, but team four star aren't still making Dragon Ball Z abridged.
00:31:27
Speaker
but they did it up to the end of the sell saga. So they did how many episodes in the end? It was like 60 plus. That is a very good question. It's at least 60, yeah, because they did a damn fine job of, it's in the name, they abridged it, but they did a damn fine job of abridging the content.
00:31:44
Speaker
In 2018 Team Forrester released episode 60 of the Bridge series on a year of hiatus ending on episode 59 with a cliffhanger. The channel initially promised a fourth season that would focus on the Boo saga, the final arc of the original anime. However, in 2020 Team Forrester decided to end the series, setting a loss of passion as well as changing climate on YouTube with regards to copyright.
00:32:00
Speaker
So I am doing some thorough research here, dear listeners, but yeah, they split up episode 60 into like part one, part two, part three, and then the epilogue, which is strange because I don't know if they did that for many of the other episodes. It honestly has been a while since I have watched the abridged series. I really should go back and watch it. Do you know how many total views team four stars videos have had?
00:32:22
Speaker
Oh, it has to be in the hundreds of millions, surely. Two billion. Wow. Oh my God. That's insane. Well-deserved, but absolutely insane. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of said about the Avatar as Airbender one. Some of their earlier content doesn't age as well. There's some kind of jokes that you kind of cringe at a little bit now. And they themselves have said that they cringe over it and wish they hadn't done that. And they would like to sort of remake that if they could, but I don't think they have time or the energy to be able to sort of remake those episodes now.
00:32:49
Speaker
because it was all very much meme humor and the kind of landscape of the internet at the time I think. Those edgy jokes that were going around and yeah you're completely right some of it doesn't age well but I think overall if you get past that with the early episodes then it's amazing to see how they took Dragon Ball because when we're saying that oh they just do funny voices over the show itself that's kind of how it
00:33:17
Speaker
but then the more and more it went on, especially when they hit the Frieza saga and then when especially they hit the Cell saga, they just started making their own storylines, making their own side plots. It was absolutely fantastic the way that they integrated it all together and they kind of made it their own but still kept the beauty of the show and I'm going to be honest,
00:33:41
Speaker
I genuinely think that they are one of the major reasons that a lot of people return to Dragon Ball Z because I think see without that a lot of people myself included maybe would have just said oh yeah that was a cool show when I was younger and yeah I wouldn't really go back to it but because of them they are so influential in the way they've brought back older fans.
00:34:02
Speaker
I do have a friend who had never watched Dragon Ball. His only experience with Dragon Ball is the Team Four star Dragon Ball Z abridged episodes that I showed him. He kind of got the vibe of what the show was like just from watching those. Cause I mean, as you say, like it has the template of the show's story, but just edited in a more concise, parodying way that sort of allows you to laugh at and along with the story of Dragon Ball and like the silliness of it, the absurdity of the show while still holding the utmost respect for it.
00:34:32
Speaker
yeah because they could have easily just as I said put on the silly voices for the whole thing and just picked apart the whole series and said oh this is a dumb show with superpowers and silly hairstyles and this and that but you could tell as the series went on that these are people who genuinely love
00:34:54
Speaker
Dragon Ball and it is just so amazing to see that labour of love come to fruition by the end
Inspirational Themes in Dragon Ball
00:35:00
Speaker
of it. I know you said before that they ended on the Cell saga and they did, but I think maybe last year, the year before? It was last year.
00:35:09
Speaker
was it last year? Yeah, they did a collaboration with another YouTuber called Totally Not Mark who again, he does quite good Dragon Ball content as well but he did a collaboration with them where they dubbed over specific scenes in the Majin Buu saga and they were good but I could
00:35:28
Speaker
kind of see why they were a bit reluctant to say, oh, we're going to continue it and everything. And especially if you've been doing something for so many years. With the podcast, we're not at that stage yet, I hope. But I mean, it's kind of inevitable that one day you'll get
00:35:44
Speaker
tired of doing the same thing over and over again. So they totally deserved to take the break and end it on their terms and everything. That is one of the things that I want to point out as well. Just the fact that not only did Dragon Ball Z abridged give it the respect it deserved, but it also showcased what people loved about the show.
00:36:06
Speaker
again I keep saying this like a broken record as well that oh it's a story about muscle men punching each other and on the surface level it is but you get so many fascinating characters within that story and granted they get a bit diluted by the time you get to Dragon Ball Super and
00:36:24
Speaker
yeah we'll touch on that eventually but with Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball Z at least to me and I'm curious to hear what you think about it as a whole but Dragon Ball the original series was more about the whimsy the adventure the kind of fantastical element and just you know having a ball a dragon ball haha as it were but with Dragon Ball Z it was quite a different tone and I think
00:36:48
Speaker
It's interesting to see how Dragon Ball was a lot more childish, and it's more likely that children would be watching it, but then as they grow up, they grow up with Dragon Ball Z, so you're more likely to be either, well we were kids, but you might also be a teenager who grew up with the original Dragon Ball, and you're kind of growing up with
00:37:08
Speaker
these characters where they are trying to be the better versions of themselves, they are trying to push themselves to the limits and things and it's one of these animes that I've done that is stereotypically the anime that when you want motivational music or motivational speeches then Dragon Ball is one of the few that you would probably go to but it's
00:37:28
Speaker
so special in that way that it could have easily been just another mindless show about people punching each other but it's not, it's a show that has so much more
Themes of Friendship and Growth in Dragon Ball
00:37:40
Speaker
in it. It has that sense of not only with the characters but also encouraging the audience at home to say be like Goku or be like Vegeta and try and improve yourself, try and live your life as best you can kind of thing but what was your takeaway from Dragon Ball Z or
00:37:58
Speaker
as a whole the series and apologies I was warned in peace. That's all right. It's difficult because my takeaway from the series was mostly just sort of this interesting story of there is a right and a wrong and so good versus evil but at the same time you're also sort of befriending your enemies and there's allowance for forgiveness.
00:38:18
Speaker
and this kind of exploration of these action themes, and also ideas of friendship, and it sounds very corny, friendship and forgiveness and redemption, whilst also sort of having this very shounen action mindset of cheering on the protagonist, rule of cool, super edgy, wow, aren't they the coolest, most awesome character, my dad would be a pure dad, Super Saiyan 5 is my favorite Super Saiyan,
00:38:45
Speaker
Oh god, do you remember the picture? Sorry to interject, but do you remember the picture? So much hair. And the green trousers. Oh my god, yeah.
00:38:55
Speaker
For anyone who doesn't know what we're talking about, please google Super Saiyan 5 as both hilarious and bizarre. You'll know it when you see it. It might also be under Dragon Ball AF, and I don't know what AF stands for in terms of Dragon Ball. It was like a fan comic they did before, I think after GT came out, but yeah. Anyway, sorry.
00:39:15
Speaker
No, no, that's about it. It was a very influential series for me for how I absorbed content in that kind of serialized way that you were ready for the next episode. And we meme it all the time, but the kind of announcer sort of saying like, Oh, is this person going to do this in the next episode? Or
00:39:32
Speaker
How is this going to turn out for this character? Stay tuned for the next exciting episode of Dragon Ball Z. That is so important. It perforates my memories, my experiences. That is such a crucial memory, just hearing that. Just even me doing a very poor attempt at mimicking it.
00:39:48
Speaker
I got a little bit of a, I'm not gonna say goosebumps, but like a nostalgic smile, a bit of a shiver from that. It's so vital, so important to who I was then, who I've become. And I think it's just such an important story. I thank Akira Toriyama so much for what he created.
00:40:03
Speaker
And I have to say, even with the worst parts of this anime, it doesn't silly what came before it. There's some moments that might not hold up in Dragon Ball, there's some silly moments in Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT is a whole other
00:40:19
Speaker
kind of worms I have to say and Dragon Ball Super I would say personally to me I wasn't a big fan of I still watched it all but I wasn't a big fan of the majority of it but at the end of the day despite all of that and despite what came before what came after it
00:40:37
Speaker
as you said it is just such an integral part of our childhoods and growing up with them even when you saw bits of the films online or even on TV or you saw the episodes pop up again and you thought
00:40:53
Speaker
my goodness I can't believe the the show's still going and it honestly is looking at it from a contemporary perspective there's been so many enemies out there that have come out since and maybe done things better than Dragon Ball
00:41:10
Speaker
or fleshed out things a lot more but in all seriousness you cannot deny how influential that Dragon Ball has
Dragon Ball's Lasting Pop Culture Impact
00:41:18
Speaker
been. It's almost like that cosy blanket of nostalgia that you have, you just see Dragon Ball and you know things are going to be alright because I have to say the thing that skewed my kind of perspective of these shows was I always knew that things
00:41:34
Speaker
eventually would be alright in Dragon Ball. Don't get me wrong, there's some really terrible moments like Cell absorbing a whole city, or even Kid Buu, spoilers, destroying the Earth at the end of the saga. But then of course they collect the Dragon Balls, they wish everything back
00:41:50
Speaker
to normality and you could kind of take comfort that you knew that there was going to be a cool transformation first and foremost and you knew that the heroes would save the day and it was that kind of motivation and inspiration you thought oh that is such a cool character that is such a cool hero to look up to and aspire to. One other thing I want to point out as well and I think with
00:42:14
Speaker
kind of touched on this before but the musical score both in the Japanese dub and the English dub is iconic. Whether you're listening to the original, whether you're listening to the Bruce Faulkner soundtrack, there's actually one particular song that I have to say is maybe my favourite part of Dragon Ball GT. Have you heard the outro theme for it?
00:42:36
Speaker
No, I think I have. I think the name of the actual song is Dandan Kokoro Kikari Teku and I probably butchered that so apologies but it's like the outro theme that I'm pretty sure plays at the very end of Dragon Ball GT when they have a montage of Goku leaving on the back of Shenron and
00:42:59
Speaker
It's like him walking through the crowd as an adult. It's genuinely such a beautiful moment because despite all the rubbish that you do get in GTE between the Blackstar Dragon Balls, between the Dragons popping out the Dragon Balls and things like that, you get this lovely
00:43:14
Speaker
animation that is followed by the song and it's just amazing it's just absolutely fantastic listening to it because as soon as you hear that you do feel as if it's like a blanket that's just wrapped around you to see it's the end of an adventure but wasn't it a great journey and again that's why i feel as if when it ended there was almost a finality before of course they brought it back with super and i know technically they are
00:43:41
Speaker
probably going to bring back the anime at some point because they've already continued the manga into a good couple of arcs. I know there's like the Moro arc, there's the Granol arc, there's also the arc for the I think it's Dragon Ball Super Heroes I want to say.
00:43:56
Speaker
the movie that they just brought out with the new Super forms and things like that. Dragon Ball was a series that I don't think will ever go away completely, especially for anime fans, but even for people who indirectly have been exposed to Dragon Ball, this isn't going away.
00:44:14
Speaker
anytime soon. This is a series that has left its mark on pop culture, it's left its mark on other franchises that have drawn inspiration from it and despite the very very sad fact that Akira Toriyama has passed away, his legacy with this particular franchise and I'm not saying this to diminish his other works like in Dragon Quest and things like that but it's probably the major thing that I think
00:44:42
Speaker
A lot of people get into anime with Dragon Ball. That is one of the first characters that they might see in promotional material, especially for anime. Despite the tragic news that we heard a couple of weeks ago, he has created something that will probably last forever. I don't know how you feel about it though.
00:45:02
Speaker
There's certainly more to tell in Dragon Ball and the legacy of it as just being such a vital element to Japanese animation and animation in the West. It's hard to say that it will die out in those interests. And seven or eight years ago, we didn't have super. Would we have thought that Dragon Ball would be coming back?
00:45:20
Speaker
that wouldn't have crossed our mind that we'd have more Dragon Ball after all those years. I think it'd been like 20 plus years since any Dragon Ball series had come out, so it could well be that in the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years that we get another series. Not necessarily that Super left the impact that the original series did, but it probably left more of an impact than GT did.
00:45:41
Speaker
Yeah that's true. Because I have to say it was quite interesting the way that GT ended because as I said there's that really heartwarming montage and then there's like an epilogue where Pan has a grandson that she calls Goku Jr. I think and he essentially just looks like Kid Goku. And they had a movie based on that character where he's looking for the Dragon Balls to bring back
00:46:07
Speaker
Pan, although I think in the end it turns out she's fine. She like falls really ill or something that's been a while since I've seen it but you know they had that film. Then it was relatively radio silence on the whole thing and then I think between GT and Super they had one other film and it was in a really weird animation style. I don't know if you remember this where it was like Goku and Vegeta have to fight this like Frieza's henchman
00:46:33
Speaker
or something like that. But at the same time, they're plucking radishes out the ground and they're having a buffet. It's a lot more sillier. Yeah, it wasn't really supposed to be a continuation as such, but it still was the only thing that Dragon Ball fans had at the time. I've watched it. It was a very weird one. It was for Tabl, wasn't it? That's the one. Yeah, Vegeta and Tabl. It was so stupid.
00:46:56
Speaker
It was an interesting content. Is it actually canon? Because I don't think they ever reference the existence of Tabl at a later point. I could be totally off the mark here, but I am convinced that they do reference them. Insuper is like a one-off line. They ask, what about your brother?
00:47:13
Speaker
turbo and it's like oh he's off in another galaxy or something and then they never bring it up again and i don't know what it is about brothers of the main characters in this because Goku's brother who's like one of the first villains who you get to meet in Dragon Ball Z he gets shelved almost instantly after a couple episodes and he's never brought back up again unless it's you know the odd comment or two and then with this Vegeta's brother pops up and then it's just like i must go
00:47:42
Speaker
my people need me and then turbo died on the way back to his home planet so yeah it's a weird narrative choice i have to say but yeah as i said overall dragon ball as a franchise whether it's dragon ball dragon ball z dragon ball gt even dragon ball kai i know it's got its controversies and its nitpicks amongst fans personally i wouldn't watch it because it doesn't have the driving arc which i feel as if if it doesn't have the driving arc then what's the point
Appreciation for Dragon Ball Filler Arcs
00:48:12
Speaker
with
00:48:12
Speaker
Exactly. Why would you bother? If I were going to see a green man in a baseball cap and a graphic tee driving a car terribly, then what's the point? That's one of the things I actually want to touch on quickly, just the fact that I think that Dragon Ball is probably one of the few shows that I genuinely don't mind the filler arcs in it, because as far as I remember the arc, I think it's the end of the Mecha Freeze arc and then the start of the Android arc.
00:48:38
Speaker
where they're like, right, okay, these androids are going to appear in three years. You've got to train, you've got to get beefed up, etc. So they're like, right, okay, we're going to do it. But then they just go off on a tangent and decide to get their driving licenses. Just go through racing against Piccolo. And it's absolutely amazing. And there's not many shows where I would say, oh, I can't wait for the next filler arc.
00:49:00
Speaker
because I mean you've even got things like the Garlic Junior arc which I know for some reason people hate but I loved it at the time, I have to say. I thought it was a really cool idea and you just have so many in-betweens as well. You have a weird one with Majin Buu but then again that whole arc is a bit strange. Yeah it's the only show that I would say that I was looking forward to seeing what silliness that they would essentially get up to but at the end of the day Dragon Ball
00:49:25
Speaker
is such an influential franchise for both ourselves and an absolutely amazing community of fans and no more was that apparent as we said at the beginning of the episodes than when people are leaving their tributes and especially ourselves in this episode because we want to point out that whether or not Dragon Ball gets silly and such that was essentially the tone of the show for the most part
00:49:51
Speaker
But at the same time, it has been so unfortunately in showing ourselves and I guess all we can say from the Chatsunami team is posthumously thank you to Akira Toriyama for creating such an amazing world and an amazing franchise
Tribute to Akira Toriyama and His Influence
00:50:06
Speaker
as a whole. As you said and as I said earlier, it is very much a different landscape in Japanese media because of Akira Toriyama and he will be very much missed.
00:50:14
Speaker
On that note, Andrew, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your memories of this franchise. Thank you so much for having me. It's been nice to finally talk about Dragon Ball. It feels like it's been long coming and there's some exciting news heading your way later in the year if you guys are interested in hearing more about Dragon Ball, so I'll let you take over that.
00:50:32
Speaker
So it's quite ironic in a way that we're doing this episode early because our initial plan was that we realised Dragon Ball was turning 30 years old in November this year, so we were planning for Season 5 to do an entire month
00:50:49
Speaker
dedicated to the Dragon Ball series where we're going to talk about the highs, the lows, just get a hold of really good episodes in. And we are still going to do that. That is the plan for season five. That is probably the only month we've got planned for season five just now. We've got months planned for the end of the year. Oh, we've got stuff planned for 2025 as well. So, I mean, in all likelihood, we do have several months ready for season five. Oh, absolutely. We've got it in the back burner.
00:51:17
Speaker
But yeah, there's so much content that we can go through, especially in November, so I am super hyped, no pun intended, to dive into the absolutely crazy and wonderful world of Dragon Ball.
Where to Find More Chatsunami Episodes
00:51:31
Speaker
But as always, if you want to listen to more episodes from ourselves, as well as any other anime-based content in our Chatsunami series, then you can check us out on our website, Chatsunami.com, as well as all good podcast apps.
00:51:44
Speaker
I also want to thank our amazing Pandora Impatrons, Robotic Battle Toaster and Sonya, thank you so so much for supporting the show and if you want exclusive content and early access to our episodes then you can check it out at our Patreon page patreon.com forward slash chat tsunami and just before I end is there anything that you want to advertise Andrew?
00:52:06
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Thank you for the lead-in there. For those interested in hearing our lovely voices in a different medium, well, still podcasting, but in a different setting. We put on funny voices. We do put on funny voices. We do a D&D podcast called Stop, Drop and Roll Initiative. You can find that by that name, where all good podcasts are found on Spotify, Apple, Castbox, the radio. No, we're not on the radio yet, but I wish. One day. We're in talks with Clyde Wan.
00:52:32
Speaker
And you can follow us on Twitter at SDRIpod, where I try and post any kind of updates to the episode. When a new episode goes live, I'll be posting a link to it on there. So please stay tuned. We post, well, we try and post monthly, and I hope you guys enjoy it. Yeah, and I can only echo that. Genuinely, go check out the Stop Drop and Roll Initiative podcast. It is a lot of fun being a part of it, being able to put on, as I said, a silly voice, and yeah.
00:52:58
Speaker
collaborate with the amazing people here. So yeah, go check it out. You're not putting on a silly voice just now. I assumed this was all a persona. No, I was born this way, sadly. They call it Scottishitis. I drank too much iron brew when I was younger, so. I do. People can't see it, but I've got bright orange hair. Probably good reasons, that is a joke. But until next time, thank you all so so much for listening. Stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:53:26
Speaker
Hey this is Tim at Wem Bembo and Everything from Game Club Pod and Two Blokes from Blighty. Chatsu asked us to record a little thing about what Dragon Ball meant to them following Toriyama's passing. I grew up watching Dragon Ball Z and
00:53:41
Speaker
I'm a massive fan of the series, I really like Super, I like GT, I've seen both Super Broly and Dragon Ball Super superhero in cinemas, I play the trading card game and it's something that means a lot to me because it's almost a character that I've grown up with and hearing that the series creator passed is a bit of a blow. So I'm hoping that the series can continue with its additional writers but I don't think it'll ever have
00:54:09
Speaker
as much of an impact as Toriyama had on the entire anime and gaming scene. As someone who never really had access to anime or shows along those lines, Dragon Ball was probably one of the only shows maybe apart from Yu-Gi-Oh that actually got over on TV channels where I'm from and it was, you know, for a kid that loved, you know, all these action shots and, you know,
00:54:34
Speaker
power fantasies and all that sort of stuff. And just what Dragon Ball was for the community as a whole, especially someone who never got into anime and never got into that sort of thing, it really was just such a gateway to so many other shows. And just something that I could sit down no matter what time it was on, because sometimes when it was at midnight, she had to record it and hope it didn't get deleted the next day. And I started watching, I think, Super, because it was the only thing you could get over where I was. And then, you know, I went back and I watched Sea, I watched Rainbow
00:55:03
Speaker
GT, I've watched all of them and it's just such. It's one of those shows that I really do think will transcend the test of time and very try to get rid of my past, but his legacy will live on and I'm glad to say I'm a Master Dragon Ball fan. Hi, this is Selthea Moss and I'm here to tell you how much Dragon Ball Z franchise changed my life.
00:55:22
Speaker
Dragon Ball Z was introduced to me at an early age. Once it was, there was no turning back. While every other little girl was playing house or princesses, I was in my backyard playing Super Saiyan fighting cell or Frieza. Dragon Ball was even my first manga. It started my comic collection.
00:55:38
Speaker
Trust me, that's huge. I still have my first comic of Dragon Ball. I can still tell you what it's about. I don't think I would have been this much of the nerd or anything like me right now without Dragon Ball. I'm forever thankful for all the years of Dragon Ball Z. So thank you, thank you the creator for what you've done.