Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Bi Men Unfiltered, a podcast for today's curious and bisexual man hosted by older, wiser bisexual men who were also once curious. From identity and relationships to dating, sex, community, and everything in between, nothing's off the table. Honest, authentic, and we're not afraid to get a little and NSFW or more than a little. No shame.
Speaker: No stereotypes. Just real conversations. On today's episode, we are talking about coming out. Yes. To yourself. To others. yourself.
Speaker: To family, friends. well We'll talk about all of that stuff, right? Random strangers on a plane? You could do that. Why not? Sure. I've never done it. Have you?
Speaker: No. But you could. You could. It was the first absurd scenario that came to my mind. Speaking of absurd scenarios, I thought we'd check in at the top of this episode and see what we're up to. going to go first. I've got something to share. Go. I'm ready. Go. go Tell us, Sam.
Speaker: Well, I have signed up for a gay men's spanking party. That's right. Yes. I have no experience, by the way, with BDSM, kink, spanking, none of that. I was not spanked as a child. Like, I don't...
Speaker: have any experience with it. I've attempted to so if a partner says they they want to be spanked or they like spanking, I'm usually like, is this good? i don't know. am a complete newbie. I have no idea what is good, what is not good. I don't want to hurt somebody, so I'm always erring on the side of maybe two too weak or soft. I don't know.
Speaker: But ah that's okay because I'm going to go to this event and watch people who know what they're doing. do it and i'm going with a friend who is has recently found that he's into it and has been telling me stories and i'm like you know what i'm kind of i'm here i'm spank curious and uh so this this seemed like a good thing like uh go go to this event with a friend and kind of see what's what well you know that we're gonna need a full report on air i know Probably will. i'm i'm i am I will be ready to share Spank-spirience with ah hand the listeners of this show.
Speaker: And I will be sure to have some popcorn and the you ah prepare me ahead of time if I need to bring some coconut oil or anything. Exactly. I'm not i'm not sure. and Will I be into it? Will I not be into it? I don't know. You know, this is this is all part of the exploration process, like seeing if I like something or like watching people who know what they're doing, try the thing. Like, I don't You know.
Speaker: we'll We'll see. How about you? Are you spanking, Grayson? You can tell me. I wouldn't say into that we have indulged. Nobody's listening.
Speaker: I've seen the download numbers. You know that people are listening. I've seen the feedback. I've seen the posts. But no, we've indulged in it a little bit. I am generally more the spanker than the spanky. And you it's one of those like...
Speaker: It doesn't necessarily get me going, but I have been known to give somebody's ass a slap every now and then while we're fooling around. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. See, that's kind of where I am. Like, but when I give the ass a slap, I'm like, question marks are appearing above my head. Like, was that good?
Speaker: I, did I, today do you like that? Should I keep doing it? i don't know. I need feedback. So far, i haven't heard that it has been an unpleasurable experience from anyone. i try not to to leave hand marks that stay too long.
Speaker: yeah important. Um, now, you know, since, you know we, we tell tales out of school here, i will say that years ago, my wife and I were wandering around downtown area, walked into a leather shop that it was, it was a vanilla leather shop.
Speaker: Oh, that had a spicy section. Okay. Okay. And just because she thought it looked really nice, she bought like this purple leather flogger thing. or ah thing you like sure Multiple lashes and all of that.
Speaker: I think we used it like twice. But it just it looks pretty. Yeah, yeah. yeah Isn't that part of what... i mean Yeah. Part of the attraction for that stuff is the sensory feeling of it over your skin and just the idea of it too. Right. yeah like i And I don't know because I've never, never done it. So I don't know.
Speaker: Just true remember, you know, remember to take the safe word with you, which I wish I could remember how to pronounce the long safe word from Euro trip. I've never seen that movie, so I don't know.
Speaker: I can't help you on that. Okay, so out of context, you bunch of high school kids that have just graduated, and so they go on a trip to Europe after graduation. ah They get to Amsterdam, and one of them goes to a sex club.
Speaker: and And the hostess is played by Lucy Lawless. Oh, fantastic. Okay. I'm on board. And she's she's in she's in this dominatrix gear, and they she they hand him – it's Club Van Der Seksen.
Speaker: Okay. They, they hand him a slip of paper with the safe word that I don't know what language it's written in. and it's probably 20 to 30 letters long.
Speaker: Oh my God. Okay. And he doesn't know how to pronounce it. And, you know, he's walking in all cocky that, know, he's not going to need the safe word and that he's looking forward to having this incredible, sexy sex club experience.
Speaker: And um they're they're totally you running him up one side down the other. And he's he's getting serious. So he starts blurting out what he thinks is the safe word. And she's like, did you say whatever? He's like, yes.
Speaker: Are you sure that's what you want? It's like, yes. She claps her hands and these two big burly guys in leather aprons walk in and bring out this large power tool looking thing that has three rotating dildos and a laser sight on it. That's amazing. Yeah.
Speaker: I just, whenever I think of a safe word, I think of that scene. Important to have a safe word for sure. I haven't had, I haven't had to. have a safe word yet, but I'm interested in what that would be like. We'll so we'll see.
Speaker: Maybe that'll be the next evolution after the spanking party. There'll be more BDSM thing. But I did, i purchased, ah so I have a wooden paddle now in my possession. All right.
Speaker: so Holes or no holes? It doesn't have any holes. Okay. No? So i kind of smacked my hand with it just to see, like, and it's very stinging feeling on the hand. So I think this is going to be a good implement to have ah whenever, whenever I, you know, after post spanking party, once i you know, get my feet wet with that, like what happened next, I don't know, but I have, I have is getting your feet wet, right?
Speaker: Expression for that, or should it be getting your cheeks pink? There we go. Getting my cheeks pink. Yes, I will ah ah will report back on the podcast when all that goes down.
Speaker: And see, I was vamping for time and filling in for there because ah I've been boring this week. And it's a good it's a good thing I don't have anything because nothing that I could have could have followed that.
Speaker: ah We got to sign you up for a spanking party there. I think yeah you're usually the spanker and not the spanky. I think, you know, yeah. Sign you I mean, I would not, I would probably not say no, but. There you go.
Speaker: But, you know yeah, it's just, no, it's just been like, we're we're starting our crazy busy work time. So it's not as much fun time. Yes.
Speaker: Understood. Understood. It's log out from work, go to the couch and say, fire bad, tree pretty. Well, we've got some feedback. We ah would appreciate it if anyone who's listening and enjoying this podcast, please rate and review us on your podcast app of choice.
Speaker: But also, we want you to reach out with any comments that you have about the show. Maybe you have some personal experiences. you can email podcast at buymenunfiltered.com.
Speaker: With that, and we have an email that I would like to share. And this has been... edited for length and clarity, but I will just go ahead and and read if that sounds like a good idea.
Speaker: Go for it. I loved getting this email. Me too. Like we we got this really long email and I read it and I thought it was just great. ah So we will read it to you now so that you can also share in this email. I'm 59 married for 30 years with a great family and somewhat more active sex life than most of my long-term married friends.
Speaker: I never had any interest in guys when I was younger. i went to college in the 80s and society was different. You were straight or gay. Plus, I grew up religious. I was horny for women and good looking enough to get blowjobs or sex with girls often.
Speaker: I had a long term friend who one summer became a best friend. We hung out daily. We both liked reading and talking about books. He was really handsome and got laid a lot.
Speaker: One night while drinking or high or both, he asked me if I ever thought about messing around with a guy. He was sincere about it and not weird, but I shut the conversation down. I said, no, never.
Speaker: I changed the subject and he let it go. I don't know why it had freaked me out. I was always open to people doing whatever they wanted, but it wasn't my path. He never mentioned it again. About 10 years ago on a business trip, I was talking to a married businessman in the hotel bar.
Speaker: We were drinking and chatting. He mentioned he was bi. I didn't react. Later, he pointed out I hadn't reacted and I said I was cool. He asked if I'd ever played with a guy and I said no.
Speaker: He asked if I ever wanted to and I said not really. After the bar closed, he invited me to his room. I said no. The elevator stopped on his floor and he invited me again.
Speaker: he said he just wanted to talk, kiss or whatever I wanted. I ended up going and we kissed naked. i didn't get off, but he was really handsome and it was fun. Good, passionate energy and I really enjoyed it.
Speaker: Since then, i have used Grindr to chat, seeking other guys like me. But they're rare. I chat locally on the app, but have never met up locally. Only a few have ever been close to the right match.
Speaker: I like seeing fit bodies, but I seek a good man my age One guy and I have chatted for seven years. He's seven years younger, married, and has kids at home. Mine are grown and have moved out.
Speaker: He's more nervous than I am, so we've never met. I like him and want to meet, but doubt he ever will. I'm writing as I believe there are many, many people like me out there who may want to hear my story and see themselves.
Speaker: This bi thing is confusing. I heard your stories on episodes two and three, and they're different, yet the same. i just want to kiss in Jack, and I would be down for oral if I had a friend.
Speaker: My wife is awesome, but very vanilla. She would not be like Grayson's wife who lets him play. God, that is an ideal situation. I cannot imagine telling her and her being cool with it.
Speaker: While we are progressive in our beliefs about society, i think she would never let us be open or ethically non-monogamous. I would be cool with her going and playing, even with other guys, actually, but I see no world where any of this happens. She sees our marriage as good enough and better than many people we know.
Speaker: I see myself as heteroflexible or kind to When you talk about checkoff clubs, I want to go to one, but not sure how, as I would be scared someone there would recognize me and tell someone.
Speaker: Finally, recently I am recalling that night talking to my friend 40 years ago. ah wonder what would have happened if I had not shut down the conversation. Maybe we could have explored and had fun in that 22-year-old age range where you can do things.
Speaker: Well, I can't go backwards, so I do not dwell on it. But I wish society in that era were what it is now or that I could do more. Keep making the podcast.
Speaker: First of all, thank you for the email. Yes, that is. And that's the kind of story that kind of spurred us doing the podcast.
Speaker: Yeah. And I think a lot of, a lot of people listening to this can relate to that story too. Absolutely. a lot of men, I think, see themselves as heteroflexible or kind of dipping their toe into bisexuality.
Speaker: Even after years of being straight or saying no to wanting anything to do with a guy. And we talked about this like during the 80s and 90s, like you were gay or straight. There was no in between. Yeah.
Speaker: So that was a difficult thing. But also I want to mention hotel bars while traveling. That is a big fantasy of mine. In fact, I'm putting it on my fuck it list. So thank you for that. I checked one thing off and now I'm adding one thing on because of this email. I was like, oh, you know what? like It's a sum zero. A pickup in a hotel bar. Yeah, sum zero.
Speaker: Yeah. head what One thing that that kind of struck me too, and I know that at some point along every journey like this, I think we've all had a similar thought to this.
Speaker: you know he He mentioned hearing us talk about the Jackoff clubs and would want to go, but would be, but as scared somebody there would recognize him and tell somebody. Yeah.
Speaker: They're there too. Right. ah They're there too. Although I would say you don't know what their situation is, right? Exactly. But it could be somebody, you know, who is gay and, ah you know, or already out or has, ah you know, some kind of set up with their partner that they can be there. Right.
Speaker: it It could be, but at the same time, anyone that they could tell doesn't care. Anyone, or most people that they could tell doesn't care.
Speaker: Most of the people who would care, they'd be telling on themselves too. Right. Yeah, it's true. And I don't know, I believe what the club that I go to, one of the rules is you don't talk about who you've seen there outside of the club.
Speaker: Yeah, the at at the clubs that we are aware of, that sort of discretion is click one of the foundational rules. Yeah.
Speaker: And that's, of course, you know, i hopefully you're listening still. And that's not saying, well, say fuck it and go. if If you're not comfortable going, so that's totally valid. Yeah.
Speaker: That's totally valid, but it could be a great time. And discretion is something that these clubs do keep in mind. And yeah we'll be talking about that later on down the line and we'll go over some of that.
Speaker: So yes stay tuned and listen to the Jackoff Club episode when we get there. Indeed. Also, I want to just call out the never telling your wife or partner thing. Like that is again, a valid thing. And although yeah this person who wrote the letter is having occasional encounters without the wife knowing it's kind of a, you should know what you're getting into. Like, you know, that you're,
Speaker: You're doing this with the eyes open and that it could, if discovered, ah lead to some bad times for your primary relationship. So don't want to minimize that. Yep. We touched on, that we circled back around to that last, last week.
Speaker: Yeah. All right. Should we get into the word of the week? I think it's time. Word of the week. Word of the week. This week is what, Grayson? Well, it's kind of a series of words that are all interconnected.
Speaker: ah Heteroromantic, homoromantic, and biromantic. What does that mean? I know bisexual, I know homosexual, I know heterosexual. What are these terms?
Speaker: Well, bisexual doesn't mean that you are necessarily romantically attracted to multiple genders as well. So these are terms that kind of indicate your orientation towards romantic interest.
Speaker: um Heteroromantic, you you may be bisexual and heteroromantic, so you are sexually interested in men and women. But as a bisexual man, you are romantically attracted to women.
Speaker: Homoromantic, opposite. you know You are sexually attracted to both. Romantically, you're interested in men. Biromantic, you are romantically attracted to either. Yeah.
Speaker: And it's it's the very crux of what I was saying in my journey story, my fundamental misunderstanding of the term bisexual and why I did not apply it to myself at first. Right, because you thought being bi meant that you also had to get romantic with dudes and that wasn't i something you were into.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. And I thought it was all a big bundle of you stuff. And i didn't have when I learned that it was that wasn't the case, I didn't still didn't have these terms.
Speaker: Right. But I did learn that, no, that's not necessarily the case. There are shades all along the the bisexual spectrum. Yeah. So...
Speaker: That's what finally you know made me unlearn what I had learned incorrectly and relearn more correctly. I see. So you are heteromantic.
Speaker: Yes. I see. Yes, I am. am I would probably say I'm biromantic. Like there's the possibility that I could be romantically attracted to either a man or a woman.
Speaker: So I'm not sure. Like there's the possibility. Like I have had romantic relationships. Well, one romantic relationship. So I think that puts me in biromantic.
Speaker: I think so. There you go. I think it does. That's our word of the week. Word of the week. All right. That means his main topic time.
Speaker: Main topic. Do we need another song for the main topic? No. No, just that. Because nobody wants to hear me sing.
Speaker: Well, ah in the fourth episode, we talked about telling your partner, which is, course, a very important part of the bisexual journey for men. But this is a bit different. We're going to talk about coming out more widely. So not just your partner.
Speaker: and of course, the first question is should you at all? yeah Yeah. I mean, that's a valid question. And everybody's going to have a different answer.
Speaker: It's true. Yeah. Because there's a lot of factors that can go into the should you question. I mean, is the timing right? Yeah. ah How comfortable are you with your own sexuality?
Speaker: ah Where do you live? What's your community like? i mean we Yeah. you I keep saying buckle of the Bible belt. Yeah. But yeah, is it going to is that news going to be received with acceptance or not Yeah.
Speaker: Could it, would it affect your employment? That's true. Yeah. If you came out at work... would that bring any hardship? I actually, i was, so I was listening to an episode of the podcast chaps out, which we'll link to in the show notes. And there was an episode where, ah the guy was describing an incident at work where another man, after he came out, like pushed him up against a wall and told him that people like him should,
Speaker: be killed or go away. yeah And I was like, holy shit, that is extreme. But yeah, you never know how people are going to react to that situation. You know, when you're working somewhere, you'd you're not choosing that family. Like that family is like assembled by somebody else. yeah generally So you may not ah be in complete agreement with those coworkers.
Speaker: And I mean, I've, I've told this story, you story you explain this condition, what have you, online multiple times. I am effectively completely out in my personal life, but at at work, I'm not.
Speaker: yeah And there's the main reason is yeah I've been there for, God, 17 years now. So it would be a huge paradigm shift.
Speaker: Yeah. um you know it Especially considering that the the group that I work in has been you know has shrunk exponentially since I started there.
Speaker: so I think the person who's been there the shortest time is 10 years. So we're, we're talking paradigm shift, you know huge shift in perceptions and yeah who wants the drama that goes with that.
Speaker: Right. Totally. And so it's like, you know what? I, I don't want to mess with that. So I'm just going business as usual when I'm at work and I don't have to go into the office anyway. So there for the most part. So, you know, who, who cares if I'm wearing my, know, my bi flag dog tag or whatever while I'm working because i'm working from home.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: Yes, indeed. And of course, there are other factors in addition to employment, like ah custody of yeah your children. Like if you're divorced, is that going to be a factor?
Speaker: ah Family estrangement, we read a note from a listener last episode that was found it himself estranged from his children because of this.
Speaker: But also, you know, housing and other safety factors. Like, is it safe for you to come out? Yeah. And some of this is all interconnected. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: too, because say housing and safety can be a component of your community. That's true. That you live in. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Speaker: You know, I'm meanwhile, you every June we fly a huge pride flag outside our house. Yeah. Also important to, uh, to do if I, well, it again, depending on your community and depending on how it might be perceived. Yeah. You, uh, I would encourage that for sure.
Speaker: Next, who are you going to come out to? Who are the people that you're thinking of of telling? So parents, your kids, friends, or coworkers. So i have a personal story here.
Speaker: My parents... I had been dating a guy for, i think, a year at this point. And ah I told my parents and my parents, you know, are very traditional and they were the type that, you know, wanted me to meet a good woman and settle down and have kids so that they would have grandkids and all this stuff. that I mean they were of that generation, right? So I told them that I had meet met someone. Okay, that step was fine.
Speaker: and This was, you know, ah not over dinner. It was like after dinner. And then I... When do we get to meet her? he told i told them it was ah it was a guy. And...
Speaker: and The change in facial expression was just stark. Like I remember it's like burned into my memory. It was just like complete turn and it was not well received.
Speaker: The information was not well received at all. And the question was, but you still like women too, right? like They were holding on to the, but we're going to have grandchildren someday, right?
Speaker: Kind of thing. And, you know, I i said, yeah, i'm I'm bisexual. So yes, but I'm dating a man right now. And Yeah, it did not go well.
Speaker: They were going out to meet some friends after that, and they left. And i just remember like tearing up like, I made a huge mistake. And it was one that I didn't feel like I could take back or like...
Speaker: I don't know what. And I got the impression that they just did not want to hear anything more about it. And that was kind of it. I didn't end up sharing any more information with them after that point. And it's really too bad because I think they would have really liked him had they been open to that.
Speaker: And they were very clearly not. And they came to visit me and i couldn't like share that relationship with them. And that really, uh, it really hurt, really hurt.
Speaker: I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah. But I will say, so since my divorce and since sort of coming out again, i came out to my dad.
Speaker: ah So i I think I mentioned this. I put a bi flag sticker on my car and did this activity with ah my daughter, who's also bisexual. And then posted it on Facebook that we had done this. And then after I posted it on Facebook, I thought, oh man, my other family members are going to see this and then they're going to tell my dad.
Speaker: And because my mom had passed away. And so I better get ahead of this and just tell my dad again. So that it's not like, you know, my relatives calling him and saying, hey, I saw ah your son posted this on Facebook. What's up with this?
Speaker: And so, yeah I called him and told him about the sticker and putting the sticker on the car of because I'm bisexual. And he immediately changed the subject.
Speaker: which again, he like was from that generation, but he circled back to it about 30 seconds or a minute later and said, you know, you can be any way that you want to be. I love you any way that you are.
Speaker: And that really like touched me. Like it really felt good to hear that. because of the way that my initial coming out had been received so poorly and that now with age and all the things and maybe it's because he already had a grandchild that point too I had pumped out the grandchild but but it was it was much it was a much better reception the second second time so that's good that's good to hear
Speaker: Have you come out to your parents, Grayson? Well, my my mom has not been with us for over 10 years, so non-issue there. Yep.
Speaker: My dad, no simply because while we we have a better relationship now than we had when I was growing up, we We talk sporadically and see each other once a year. Okay.
Speaker: So we've only seen him once since coming out. And so it's like, you know what? I'm not even going to bother. Yeah. I'm not going to bother you. know i i I am in my 50s at this point.
Speaker: It's a non-issue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. it's a non-issue. I'm not even going to bother with this. It's it's going, if anything, it will be more trouble than it's worth.
Speaker: Because given that I am married, then it brings the question of, well, why say anything? Right.
Speaker: And then having to go into, well, we're also Right. ah oh yeah that's a completely different so yeah no we're just gonna leave that leave the worms sitting in the sealed can on the shelf see so yeah i told i told my dad i was by again for a second time but i also now share with him like who i'm dating but just the women not the men yeah And there he he really likes to hear about it, too. Like, he's sort of living vicariously through me with that because i am E&M. And so i have multiple women partners. And he he just loves it
Speaker: He's like, this is great. Yeah. He gets all the locker room stories from you. That's right. He gets the locker room stories. I don't think you would want to hear about the men, though, probably. just, have hunch. Probably not.
Speaker: he probably doesn't know what gives you that idea that's a crazy uh leap to conclusions yeah i know right yeah uh okay your kids so i mentioned that i came out to my daughter after she came out to me and my ex you want you have a kid too right Yes.
Speaker: um Yes, no one had made a you know formal statement about it. But if he has not picked up on both of us having all of the various bi-flag stickers on our computers and stuff, The various pride and by pride clothing and accessories and such that we wear, then we told he totally fails all of his perception roles.
Speaker: ah But yeah did you have a conversation or was it just like, if you see this stuff, you'll figure it out. It's just, we like I said, no one made a formal you know declaration to him. And there haven't been any questions or anything. no this i mean, it that this is the, this is the same.
Speaker: I say child. He's an adult now. This is the same child who in mid-teens when i did, quote unquote, come out as a nudist was like, oh, okay. and And very, very quickly, you know, ah adapted to that. ah And within the first few months, ah the direct quote was, hey, an Amazon package was just delivered. Do you want me to get it so you don't have to put pants on?
Speaker: That's hilarious. So, yeah, it's, you know, but we also raised him with awareness of LGBTQ plus life. So, I mean, and Glee was a big show in our house.
Speaker: okay And so like we, I remember ah that we were watching the episode where ah Kurt was as a cruel prank was voted prom queen and you know,
Speaker: He would have been 10, 11-ish around then somewhere. And was like, well, why are people making fun of Kurt? And we say, well, you know,
Speaker: a Kurt likes boys. Yeah. But why are people making fun of Kurt? So it, it's all, it's never been a big deal in our house.
Speaker: So, you know, seeing first my wife and then I, you, uh, you, I say quietly coming out is probably just like, okay, whatever. I'm going to go play. I'm going to go play in VR now.
Speaker: Right. Plus, you don't want to think about your parents having sex at all. Yes. Being sexual beings at all. Exactly. Exactly. Understandable.
Speaker: So, yeah. And terms of friends, like, yeah, I came out to friends like ah in the early 2000s to close friends and then sort of widened that circle ah as things progressed. And, you know, now I'm pretty much out everywhere. Any of my sort of public profiles have that information. So,
Speaker: And it wasn't a big deal. My friends, ah you know, didn't lose any friends or anything like that. I don't think I've, yeah, even lost any acquaintances over it. Like, or if I have, I don't know Maybe I did. Right.
Speaker: But yeah, nobody's ever really questioned it. So yeah. Yeah, see same here. yeah we We both, but I in particular, just kind of you know quietly rolled everything out with our our main circle of friends who the vast majority of them fall somewhere on the rainbow as well. Yeah, so that certainly helps.
Speaker: Yeah, so it's like you know no big deal. you know we One member of our gaming group is very much not and is the most small C conservative of our group, but you know he also you doesn't make a big deal out of it. you he He did bow out of a discussion we had in one forum of...
Speaker: LGBTQ plus representation in gaming saying, I don't have anything to contribute to this. And it's not my you know, it's not my personal beliefs. So I'm going to bow out.
Speaker: Yep. But you guys, I'm sure you can handle it. So, you know, we if he he keeps coming back every week. So he clearly is not, as opposed to another newer member of our group who ended up leaving, telling the host, um I mean, we...
Speaker: Frankly, we all thought this guy was an asshole anyway. But um he he told the person who hosts them all, hosts all of our games, ah that part of why he left is that ah he he was intrigued by the meetup description that the group was not political. Well, apparently what was political is that those of us on the rainbow existed and there were women in the group.
Speaker: We did not, we did not suffer bullshit about it. Yeah. That's what, that's what was quote unquote. political I don't think so. I disagree with that being political. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: ah Same. Same. Then there are also you know friends that I haven't really seen or communicated with other than online in years. So I'm not going to shoot them a special message and say, oh, hey, by the way, you know if if our interactions are...
Speaker: We see each other's posts on Facebook. i'm I'm not going to make a special message to you, but if you cannot pick up through context of some of the posts that I'm making and it goes over your head, then it goes over your head.
Speaker: Right. Right. And you had mentioned that you are not out at work, but yes I did come out at work and not every place that I've ever worked.
Speaker: So while I was monogamously married to a woman and assumed straight, uh, I did not come out to my coworkers then. And I just didn't feel the need to, like i don't think they need to know what I'm interested in in, the, in the bedroom. And I, I just didn't feel the need and I wasn't out about it. I wasn't, you know, dating or finding male partners or anything at that point. But previously, like when I was in a relationship with ah a man, I did tell my coworkers and that was very well received. You know, I had ah good coworkers who were very progressive, even though it was,
Speaker: in the buckle of the Bible belt ish where I was living at the time. And, uh, yeah, it was, it was well received and ended up taking my boyfriend at the time to a company Christmas party and it was fine. So that was great.
Speaker: So, but yeah, I have decided, you know, in my, in one of my jobs, not to tell my coworkers and that wasn't a big deal, but yeah, I mean, I'm out now. So I assume my coworkers know, but it just doesn't need to come up. So yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. And that's, that's part of what I was getting at when I was talking about it earlier. It's just, it's not something that comes. And another piece of context too, is that my wife worked there too, for a few years. Yeah. So between being there for 17 years and her having been there for a couple of years, everybody knows both of us. Right, right.
Speaker: And so it's like, you know, let's just not upset that apple cart. And, you know, you know how all workplaces are. Sometimes there's going to be gossip a gossip mill.
Speaker: Sure. And it's like, okay, let's not make that shift in perception to kick the gossip mill into into running. Into gear. i just want Yeah, i just i I want to do my job and clock out.
Speaker: don't want to be the subject of anybody's conversations unless they're talking about how they're going to give me a huge raise. Exactly. Yeah. Right there with you on that. So how to come out.
Speaker: another big topic within within a main topic here. And I am personally like a fan of the anonymous online only to a community of people that you don't actually know in real life saying like coming out to them as kind of a practice run.
Speaker: Yeah, i it's not something I did consciously, but yeah, that that definitely happened here. Absolutely, it happened here. I think we see that in online spaces a lot, actually, like people who are admitting it to themselves within a group of complete strangers as their first kind of admission or acceptance of themselves. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, we see it all the time in the there's there's two types of frequent posts on Reddit in bisexual subreddits. There's am I bi and I'm bi. That's the the question mark and then the exclamation point.
Speaker: Yes. All right. So how are you going to come out? Is it going to be an in-person chat? it going to be a text, maybe a letter, email? Are you going to tell one person at a time, which could take a long time depending on how many friends, coworkers, family members you have?
Speaker: Or are you going to do it all at once? And are you going to write like a rough script before you do it so that you know what you're going to say, anticipate some questions, and I would say that a lot of that choice is going to depend on who it is that you're coming out to. Yeah. There are some people that more personal conversation ah is warranted. I know that, you know, you, when you came out to your eventual wife, when you first started dating, you did it through the email.
Speaker: Yep. And that that's more of a direct and personal communication. I had the conversation face-to-face with my wife, which, ah you tying back to last episode's conversation, it's while we were updating our profile on SLS.
Speaker: um But we you know i had that I felt that that was... a conversation that needed to be had in person yeah rather than shooting a text or whatever and saying, by the way, especially since you we were 20 something years in you know that that's something that you I just felt needed to be done that way.
Speaker: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, in person. Like, you don't want to be married for 20 years and then I've written you a letter. Please read it after i leave the house.
Speaker: Yes. So I cannot see your reaction at all. There is also shortly after i started the whole process, if you will, of coming out, I found a meme that was about coming. It's like, you know, I don't remember exactly how it goes. it was like multiple different methods of coming out is by. Yeah.
Speaker: And the last one was, you know, telling people you're by by posting this meme. ah And so that's good. So i I reposted it on Facebook and I mentioned it to a friend that I had already been out to. And he's like, you know, nobody's going to take it seriously. Right. And I was like, well, they could. like, no, it's April Fool's Day.
Speaker: Oh, shit. and I was like, oh, you're right. Like, oh, well. That's amazing. What timing.
Speaker: And i I didn't even consider it. That just happened to be the day that I saw the meme. yeah There you go. You may want to also be ready to handle the reaction to this information. So that might be rejection. You might hear some biphobia.
Speaker: And it's important to have some support lined up or at least take time for self-care if you do run into that information. Kind of thing.
Speaker: um But you also want to be ready for their questions and what this means for your relationship with the person you're telling or your relationship with others. Like there may be a lot of questions like, what does this mean for your marriage? Or what does this mean for...
Speaker: our friendship what does this mean for our parent-child relationship like yeah what does it what does it mean i think is often that follow-up question and and of course there's there's always the old oh so does this mean that you want to fuck me now right ah ah No, you i do not. Because being bi means you, every man that you see, you immediately want to fuck. No, no. I don't think so. It's like, no, you're still not my type. which then begs that Which then leads to the question, well, why not? And maybe you'll get that question. Who knows? Yeah.
Speaker: ah Sorry, I had to derail that with a cliche. cliche Sorry. That was good. That was good. Very good. Yes. But you may also hear, like, you know, why haven't you picked a side? Are you really gay? ah Does bisexuality even exist? Why haven't I picked a side? Why haven't you started eating hamburger every night of your life?
Speaker: Right. Yeah. Do you also like chicken? Do you also like pizza? Do you also like yeah fish? yeah You eat multiple things, yes?
Speaker: Well, so do I. Phrasing! Phrasing! Exactly, exactly, exactly. And, of course, if you are partnered, whether you're married or ah otherwise have a significant other, they're essentially coming out, too. If you're telling ah friends, coworkers, your parents, et cetera, they're essentially coming out, too. So...
Speaker: You're going to want to run this by them. Don't just do it on a whim. Like, make sure they are also prepared because they're going to get questions as well. You know, they're going to get the what does this mean for you questions like. So so does this mean that he's leaving you for a man?
Speaker: Exactly. Or what if he decides to leave you for a man? Mm-hmm. We've both agreed. yeah No, we put too much work into training and you.
Speaker: We put too much work into training one another. That's right. And, you know, is it a phase? Like, people are going to ask these questions. Yeah. So you should have an answer, um perhaps ready.
Speaker: or Is it a phase? Let me explain the bicycle to you. Yeah. That's all phases. Yes. Yeah. So once you're out, then what the hell do you do? Well, it's kind of an ongoing process. Like unless you put that you're by like on your social media profiles, it's ah like people are probably, you're probably, or you may feel the need to come out again and again and again to new people that you meet, new friends, know,
Speaker: new acquaintances, new coworkers, maybe. So, because you're probably going to be assumed straight. Yeah. And that's, you that falls to me under the umbrella of anybody who needs to know will one way or another eventually know. Yeah. But, you know, if I have just met someone, what, what does it matter?
Speaker: Right. It's not like a Bob Vance ah situation, like from the office where you're like, Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration to everybody that you meet, right? Like it's not my name's Sam, I'm bi.
Speaker: name's Sam, I'm by My name's Sam, I'm bi to everybody. Like that's not the second thing that you tell somebody. it It's like at at a recent nerd convention,
Speaker: um We met a couple that we were familiar with from YouTube who we're huge fans of. And the wife of that couple, ah during COVID on, ah on either I don't remember if it was National Coming Out Day or Buy Visibility Day, came out as Buy.
Speaker: okay And so, you know, lovely people. we We were just as thrilled to meet them as we would have hoped. But, you know, we're both you wearing, not screaming out loud, you know, buy stuff, you know, buy clothing and accessories. But, you know, had had the the flag dog tag that I've mentioned and one of my bracelets. I think my wife was wearing a T-shirt. And clearly knowing that they are both very observant people.
Speaker: I know that they picked up on what we were wearing, but it wasn't a topic of conversation. Right. you know we've We all understood what one another was saying without saying a word.
Speaker: so Yes. so you know it's Like I say, that the people who need to know will know.
Speaker: One way or another, they they will know. yeah In our case, anyway. Yeah, and I want to say, like, as we kind of wrap this segment up, like, circling back to the beginning of this conversation, should you even come out?
Speaker: Maybe not coming out is going to be your path forward, right? Yeah. But ah it's a matter of accepting bisexuality. It's a matter of, you know, sharing who you are with the world. And if you're ready to do that, I think it's an important step because not only are you sort of standing up to be counted, but you are showing others that bisexuality is valid and that it's, you know, somebody that they know is by like how many,
Speaker: people think that bisexuality doesn't exist because they don't know anyone who's bi. Like, they may know somebody who's bi and just not out, right? Yeah. Or we briefly mentioned yeed the pick a side.
Speaker: If you are, there there are assumptions that people make if you're If we presume that you're in a monogamous relationship, yep if you are in a straight presenting relationship, you my wife and I are both bi. We've mentioned it multiple times on the show here.
Speaker: But anybody just looking at us on the street is going to assume two straight people. If I were with a man, people on the street was like, oh, it's two gay guys.
Speaker: yeah So you I guarantee everyone who thinks that they don't know a bisexual person does, they're just making assumptions.
Speaker: Yes. And we all do it. Like, you know, yeah we're all guilty of it. Oh, yeah. I mean, deal that the YouTube couple that I mentioned, when until she came out online that day, we presumed this is a straight couple.
Speaker: Yeah. And then she came out. we're like, oh, that makes sense.
Speaker: And maybe that's the reaction that you'll get when you when somebody listening to this comes out. Yeah, exactly. Very possible. How many times have we heard from married men who come out to their partner and the partner says, oh, I figured.
Speaker: Yeah. i's How many times have I seen that story somewhere? Yeah. Seems to be fairly common. I figured or, oh that explains a lot. ah Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. All right. Before we say goodbye for this week, I wanted to do a little mini topic kind of inspired by a discussion that we were having on discord. And that is what would we tell our younger selves now that we are older, more experienced, have lived more of life? Is there anything we would want to go back and tell our younger selves to change anything about our perception of the world or ourselves?
Speaker: I would explain to that 19, 20-whatever-year-old college student that bisexual exists and what it is yeah to eliminate all of that But, but, but that was going on in his head.
Speaker: At the same time, i would try to do it in a way that would not alter the trajectory that his life would take. Because while there were some really low lows along with some highs in there, where he's at now, I think is is pretty rad.
Speaker: yeah God, I just sounded very You said rad.
Speaker: Totally rad, dude. I was channeling that 20-year-old. ah No, but I think where he's ended up is is a pretty good place.
Speaker: so think I think so. i would I wouldn't want to knock him onto a path that would send him elsewhere. Yeah. about you? i think I would tell myself to be more competent and also, also that bisexuality exists. And i think those are the main two things. Be more confident, you know, because i was pretty, and I am like, I am an introvert and I am a pretty shy when it comes to like real life spaces. Yeah. I was about to say, there are people probably listening saying, wait a second, the two of you are putting a podcast out in the world where you are talking about all sorts of personal and intimate things and you're introverts? Yes.
Speaker: That is true. it is absolutely true. Yes, we're talking about spanking parties and All sort of jack off clubs and everything. And we're introverts. Yes. Yes. but Yeah. I think, ah you know, those two things I think would not change the trajectory of how things went in my life, but maybe like get me to a better place faster because, you Yeah, it took a while for me to accept my bisexuality, but also took me a while to try some things that I ended up liking. so yeah it's like, hey, you're in the future, you're going to like this, or you're going to like that, or you're going to be more open to rimming. so you know I know you're fast forwarding through all of those scenes and in porn now, but you know what? You're going to like it in about 20 years.
Speaker: Yeah. Get out of my brain because i i sat down one time and I kind of realized, wait a second, there are things that over the years I've been like, no, I don't like this in porn and skipped over it. And then once I've done it, I'm like, no, we're not skipping this. Yeah. I'm all turned around on the subject. In fact, ah let's, uh,
Speaker: Let's go ahead and let's let's slow this down so that we can really pay attention to this scene.
Speaker: Let's check out the technique here. I really yeah want to learn something from this. Yeah. yeah So actually, i think it would be fun if our listeners would email us, comment on this episode, and tell us what you would tell your younger self about.
Speaker: Yes. it could be ah but It could be about your buy journey. It could be about anything. What do you what do you think you would ah tell yourself? And I'm assuming, of course, that most of our listeners are probably older. They're not in their 20s and therefore have a lot of life left to go and a lot of lessons to learn before they then turn around and tell their younger selves something else.
Speaker: But yeah, we'd love to to hear it. And you can tell us those stories, what you tell your younger selves, ah the stories of your journeys by emailing us at podcast at by men unfiltered.com or you can do it on socials.
Speaker: um on Facebook, Instagram, threads, and I just, I got to call it Twitter. ah We are Byman Unfiltered. And on Blue Sky, we are BymanUnfiltered.com. If you send us an email or make a post that you are cool with us reading on the air, just put in there somewhere that it's okay to air. Yep.
Speaker: Very, very cool. And of course, before we go, i want to point out that in the show notes to this episode, you'll see some links to the LGBT National Help Center or the Bisexual Resource Center and a coming out template as well so that if you are...
Speaker: coming out if you run into any sorts of issues these links are going to be big helps plus i'm going to link to podcasts like we mentioned chaps out and there's also another podcast called coming out stories we'll link those in the show notes and those i think are great resources i just finished up i've listened now to all of the chaps out ah stories. That's a UK based podcast talking with men who come out later in life as either gay or bisexual and very interesting stuff.
Speaker: So we'll link those in the show notes, but I think that wraps it up for this week. What are we going to be talking about next week?
Speaker: So we, we were, you know, on a fairly, you know, serious, if you will, topic this week. And, uh, kind last week to next week, we're going have some fun.
Speaker: We're, we're going to talk about those, those wonderful, mysterious Jack off clubs that we've been mentioning. Yeah. So, So, you know, ah have have some cold water ready to cool yourselves off as you listen.
Speaker: Or, you know, yeah maybe have something something handy that's a little slick. I don't know. but Possibly, yes. Coconut oil or beta balm. Well, you know, yeah but whatever comes natural.
Speaker: Yep, yep, yep. But yeah, we'll we'll be talking about those. I'm sure that we'll we'll be talking about kind of how they work and maybe some experiences them. Yes, we definitely should because, yeah it's...
Speaker: Yeah, one of my one of my favorite things, I think not too many men know that they even exist and are an option. and And I find them to be like an especially good place for ah someone who's bisexual just discovering their bisexuality to explore it more in a place where you don't have to worry about ghosting. You don't have to worry about, you know, going to somebody's house or going to a sketchy place like... yeah usually they're in, you know, public enough places. And so we'll be talking about all that stuff.
Speaker: Yep. I, I like to use the phrase low impact. Yeah. As, as an entry level. And it's also great as low impact. If you are in a relationship, you are have had the discussion about potentially opening things up, but you're,
Speaker: your partner might be a little concerned about you diving into the deep end. It's a great low impact entry point from their perspective too yep totally this is a this is a controlled safe environment and nothing goes further than this yes i feel like we're spoiling the next episode already ah we're teasing the next episode teasing it you're gonna have to wait until next week but uh yeah until then bye-bye so long thanks for listening
