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How To Dominate In Solar: Lessons From A $100M Salesman - Michael O’Donnell
301 Plays3 days ago
Michael O'Donnell is back on the show once again to share his strategies for being keener and more attentive to customer experience. Whether with installs, presentations, or even how we interact, much of the hidden value and trust comes from being more avid to adjusting and keeping the homeowner at center stage.
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Transcript
Introduction and Host Background
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to the Solarpreneur podcast where we teach you to take your solar business to the next level. My name is Taylor Armstrong. I went from $50 in my bank account and struggling for groceries to closing 150 deals in the year and cracking the code on why sales reps fell. I teach you to avoid the mistakes I made and bring in the top solar dogs of the industry to let you in on the secrets of generating more leads, following up like a pro and closing more deals.
MOD's Insights on Solar Industry Trends
00:00:31
Speaker
What is a solar printer, you might ask? A solar printer is a new breed of solar pro that is willing to do whatever it takes to achieve mastery. And you are about to become one. All right, we're here with the one, the only, MOD, Michael O'Donnell, back at a... We've got to make this a tradition, man. I know, right? Door-to-door comes. Yes.
00:00:51
Speaker
So I think this is ah the fourth podcast. Is that right? It's the fourth podcast we've done, starting with my very first podcast ever in the start at all. and they say How can people get older? I put my cell phone number. yeah and People are still calling me kind from having my cell phone number on your podcast.
00:01:07
Speaker
yeah So, spoiler alert, if you want his number, go back to the podcast. We're going to make your work for us. But yeah, so such not i mean you always know it's going to be great content, a great time when you have the MOD on. And um yeah, I'm excited to talk because a lot of changes just in the solar industry door to door. And like we were talking before, I think it's going to be up from here. But 2024 was kind of a tougher year in solar.
00:01:32
Speaker
and Yeah, i think I think there's going to be a great recovery. So we'll we'll get into that. but But yeah, I guess so it's been, I think two years since we lost that job. So do you want to fill us in? Maybe it's tough to remember, but do you remember what happened in the past two years? It's what you were talking about, content. And you know, a lot of Donald Trump gets a lot of, you know, crap for being like what he says and what he's covered. Billy Bush just came out on a podcast where he's talking about that whole incident on the extra bus, where he got Trump in a lot of trouble, or Trump got in a lot of trouble for what he said. He said, the network used to have me cover Trump all the times, because he was a soundbite machine. He would just say stuff, like Rosie O'Donnell or something, and everyone goes crazy. yeah And he happened to be covering him that day when that thing happened. So that was kind of historic. Yeah, it was. But I was talking with ah Dan, your assistant here, yesterday. And I was telling her that, that you know, I watched a lot of the Trump rallies and stuff like that. And Trump's really good at like, going, he'll a answer questions, but he can talk for, you know. He has a phrase called the weaving. Yeah, the weave.
00:02:34
Speaker
exactly Exactly. I'll get there eventually. yeah After I say five things, I want to say i'll get to your answer to your question. yeah but like Trump, he can talk all day. you know That's what Billy Bush said. He said, what do you mean me getting in to say that? You don't tell Trump what to say. He just talks at you. I was telling Dan, I'm like, man, in in some ways, mike he he can go and talk about solar all day long if he wants to. so In some ways, I feel like he's like the the Trump of solar. even ta I'm in a good way. Well, if you want to talk about winning and winning and winning and coming back and winning again, maybe, okay, yeah, I got to get that. In a good way, right?
Son Some Solar Solutions' Growth Strategy
00:03:11
Speaker
But yeah, so you definitely got a gift, though, because, you know, on stage, I've seen you can go on and on and on. And I think it really is a gift to people that can just, like, train. It's not like some people, they talk forever and it becomes, like, boring, you know? You're like, okay, when's this guy going to shut up? Would you stop talking to that? But, like, Mike, you could, like, I never get bored of listening to you, man. I'm just going to see O'Donnell on you or something now. Oh, yeah.
00:03:32
Speaker
So yeah, well so we're going to try to not make this an holiday podcast. I know we got stuff to get to. Yeah. But yeah. Busy time here at CDDCon 8. We're on the floor. It's live yeah i here at my booth. Good to see you, man. Yeah, that'll be fun. So yeah, I guess first question, Mike. 2024, I know you guys, um your company, son some solar solution today. I know you guys have been doing a lot more with the dealer program. I know you've expanded into other states. I'm buddies with Chase, your guy that's over at the whole thing. And VP of our partnerships and, you know, does all of our business development with dealers and account management. And it's just been a tremendous fine and a score to have on board with us. Great guy. And I just cherish him. Glad he's here. Yeah, so good. I was in Italy with him a couple months ago. Great guy. That's right. That sounded awesome. Yeah, it's fun.
00:04:23
Speaker
So for you, Mike, what was a maybe Chase helps a lot with that, but what was the vision behind expanding? Because before it seemed like you guys were all so we're only going to focus in Arizona. What's been maybe the shift that's opened you guys more up to expanding and going to another states and everything. Well, we've we've had a strategy for a long time of being nationwide solar contractor installation yeah sales company. It just so happens that we're on track for that strategy to come in in in last place. yeah We're going to come in last to be the nationwide solar company, but we're on our way. We're in four states. okay
00:04:58
Speaker
right now. so But we've never been interested in growing too fast. We've never been interested in being anywhere before we were ready to be there. We could handle it operationally, financially. And then from a value standpoint, we approach the partnership in sales much differently. And I think we come from a place of having been a sales org for a number of years yeah with a huge Titanic type company. and went through this series of having that work out well and not work out well. So we have a really good understanding of what we want in a partner yeah and what we wanted in a partner when we were selling and needed a great installation company. yeah And then what went wrong and and that's eventually what caused us to become an installer. We could not get the level of quality, we could not get the level of specific you know specifications to install it properly.
00:05:48
Speaker
ah We felt like we were the only ones demanding transparency with the customer in terms of what this thing would sell for and what would the remaining bill be to the customer. yeah And so we were almost forced to become an installer. It's now quite a few years ago.
00:06:03
Speaker
But we did that so that we would have the ability to guarantee the product to the customer. And we did it just for our own sales at first and for several years just for our own sales. But then we were able to guarantee the customer they were going to get not just the 25-year warranty on the roof. We could guarantee them the roof was going to leak for 25 years. that's And that's what we wanted. And not only that, what we knew the installation was going to be good. We knew the customer was going to come home to a red tag yeah on their meter. ah You know, so, you know, my partner, Val Barakat, Val Barakat is obsessed with quality, obsessed with process. But most of what is obsessed with is the customer having a five-star experience. yes And that's why we have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of five-star reviews online and five stars for the Better Business Bureau. And five stars is just about everything you can imagine.
00:06:50
Speaker
That's because we pay attention to detail. We make sure that what the customer signed up for is what they were sold. yeah We make sure that what they were sold gets installed and we make sure that what was installed works yeah for 25 years. We're going to get a production guarantee. They're going to get ah you know an installation warranty. They're going to get a warranty that says their roof's not going to leak for 25 years and we don't want to fix their roof.
00:07:12
Speaker
yeah So instead of, and I had a, you know, a huge guy in the solar installation world once told me, oh, Mike, we can install it that way and it wouldn't leak for 25 years. yeah But you know what? It's just a lot cheaper to install it the other way and fix the ones who leak. And then mine leaks, my sister's leak, my brother's leak. I'm like, you know, and I can't get away from those people. That's my relatives. like And one when it's raining on the inside of your house,
00:07:37
Speaker
It doesn't feel like a warranty issue issue, you know? It feels like you effed up my house. yeah You know what I mean? Like, it's raining. ah My house is ruined. You can ruin my house. Yeah. You want to talk about being a referral counselor? Dude, you're never getting a cancel AC. You're never getting a referral if you make it rain on the inside of some of this house. Yeah, they don't want that.
00:07:56
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, in California, and that time we're recording this, there's crazy fires going on in California. Oh my gosh, Altadena is like wiped off the face of a map. I know. And it's like, I'm getting calls from customers where they thought the battery was going to be kicking in. and um yeah Still a customer, unfortunately, the installation company yeah I use, they don't have PTO for the customer and we do we don't have the battery turned on. So like, hey, Taylor, why is my system up? They're without power right now. And that's heartbreaking. When I get a customer calling me and things are not going right, man, I mean, my heart aches. I want to make it right. And if there's nothing I can do.
00:08:32
Speaker
I want to be able to do something with customers having an experience that's not right. And um and if you think about it, like and if you can just get it right the first time and do a quality job, because now I'm having to take time where I could be selling more to go like troubleshoot this customer, help it out, like man working with our support team and everything. Dude, I had no idea when Sam Tagger was handing me two Golden Door Awards and two Golden Door Awards, and I'm thinking, and and like the best in the business, we're getting one. im just that good. yeah But as it turns out, I was the only one that had a solar company wrapped around my butt built so that I could do what I do. And Val literally built a company around me and Troy who were selling you know two, three million watts of solar every year. yeah But that's because of two things. One, ah Val realized ah that
00:09:20
Speaker
While we were really good at sales, Troy and I were not really good at much anything else. So everything else had to be taken off of our plate, including proposals, including customer you know contact and staying up with the customer. So all of that's been done for me from day one.
Efficiency and Delegation in Operations
00:09:35
Speaker
And I'm like, I don't have anything to do but knock on doors and sell. I'm like, I guess that made a difference.
00:09:40
Speaker
ah So there's like, I found out it would have been physically impossible to sell two and a half million watts of solar in any one year if I was also doing the job of the project coordinator, project manager, and the proposal engineer. So you stack those jobs up and you're not going to, you know, you're going to be asking us to get to one million watts of solar. Any high performer I talk to, they know how to delegate. They're not spending all this time on creating proposals. They're not spending all this time on project management. They have other people to do that. This might sound grandiose, but if you are on track to sell 1 million, let alone 2 million, and you divide your hours worked by pay, you're going to find that your hourly rate
00:10:26
Speaker
is hundreds of dollars an hour, maybe $500 an hour if you're operating at scale. And if you're spending your life doing $50 an hour work, that just doesn't make any sense. And so a lot of great sales guys have had to build out infrastructure for that. I've just been super lucky.
00:10:44
Speaker
But from day one, I've been in a company that builds all that into the job of the installer. So the installer's responsible for the proposal, that it's right, that it has all of the adders already in it, so there shouldn't be any adders after the sale. That the customer knows what it's going to cost, and he knows what the remaining bill's going to be. So they know their cost of energy after solar, not just what the monthly payment's going to be. And then if they have any issues, we're going to answer the phone with our person in America. We're gonna answer the phone and we're gonna understand what the issue is We're gonna call them 12 hours, you know within 12 hours after we're gonna call tomorrow morning after you sell it We're gonna talk to them two three times on the first day or two And then we're just gonna stay with the men and I had no idea how much that was impacting until yeah, we became an installer We started dealing with other companies and the weird thing was some of them wanted to insist on these other processes No, I want to do
00:11:39
Speaker
I want to be sitting at the kitchen table and solo and making this proposal. I'm like, what? If you have time with a customer, why in the world would you be like moving panels around on a house? Like, dude, that's, I'm not, that's not my thing. I'm not an engineer. yeah I'm not good at it. And why would somebody want to watch me do somebody else's?
00:11:56
Speaker
job never made sense to me. yeah that's true and And then walking out of the house, same thing that they were going to be taken care of. And I'm out, I'm down the road selling, I'm knocking and selling. So yeah ah understanding the value of that really came to a stark, yeah came to stark relief as I started working with more and more people yeah that didn't have the benefit out of like, wow.
00:12:16
Speaker
Like, you know, would I have even one golden door if I was dealing with that? And that, you know, the answer to that question is I don't even, I don't know. Yeah. and the Great concept. I don't know if you've heard, heard of or read the book, buy it back your time. Buy back your time. Yeah. One of my favorites last year. because yeah has that happened For me, and I didn't even know it. I guess I got time to knock. I'll go knock some more doors. I know.
00:12:36
Speaker
But yeah, just like, you know, things as simple as like laundry, too. Like I got three kids myself. Right. And she realized I've told this on the podcast before, but I was spending like all day Saturday nights, all day, some day just doing laundry. Getting laundry done. $500 an hour guy doing laundry. like and like You know, come on, spread that work around. There are people that need jobs or people that need work. yeah And $50 an hour is really good money, yeah you know, for a lot of people. Give that work to people who can do it. yeah Something that happened for Marsha and I, I mean, she was making very good money as a nurse. yeah okay And you know, year one, I'm making money and she's making money. And we're looking at those two numbers and we're like, does it make sense for her to leave, drive to Tempe every day and go do this, bring home this much money. yeah And we said to ourselves, so
00:13:18
Speaker
How much more could I sell if she were helping me manage my sales team? And so she retired as a nurse and came on full time oh onto my sales team. And that was another same thing. Buy back your time, right? yeah She was handling all the commissions and all of that stuff okay so that I didn't have to get involved. I wasn't, yeah and I, I, I wouldn't have been good at that anyway. I would have i've been really bad at that that. So. That's crazy how much ah yeah more attention to detail. You know, women are just naturally much better at things like that. So yeah, if you get married to an entrepreneur, you're going to end up an executive assistant.
Financial Implications of Long Warranties
00:13:53
Speaker
That's just happening. yeah Exactly. Part of the job. yeah
00:13:56
Speaker
yeahp So yeah, I was talking with Chase yesterday too, Mike. And um he was telling me that getting dealers on board, his job's the easy part. he's like He was comparing it to Tesla. yeah He's like, you guys have such a good brand, such strong like brand recognition that people just come on. But I'm curious, ah because I'm talking with a few other business owners, guys at solar companies. And some of them talk about, man, there's these companies that offer these long warranties, like 25 years on the roof, for example.
00:14:25
Speaker
And it's like, how do they stay in business? We've seen so many companies go out of business. You think with companies that don't have st strong and finances in place 12 years when they get any calls about the roof, having to pay for all that, it gets expensive. yeah And I think that's one of the questions that a few people brought up during one of these solar CEO panels.
00:14:44
Speaker
So for what, what's your, I don't know if you have, uh, like an answer for that. What's, what's your guide? You guys we've set aside more money for the deal. Well, um as like so if you give somebody a 25 year warranty, that's a contingent liability. You have potentially yeah a bill to pay in the future and that affects your financial statements. And that's what, uh, Mark Bench from TriSmart was talking about on the owner's panel today is that if you offer somebody 25 year roof, not going to leak and it leaks, you have to fix the roof. yeah And that's a bill that's coming five years from now, 10 years from now, 15 years from now. And when ah a real you know CPA firm does your financials and you do real ones like they're audited, they're going to go, wow, you might have to pay this money in the future. That belongs in your financial statements. And that's going to affect
00:15:25
Speaker
your you know your net worth, your ability to borrow money. And you can't just say stuff and they go, oh, we're not going to worry about it. yeah But you know the real answer is to just do it right the first time so that contingent liability ends up being as close to zero. It's never going to be totally zero, but as close to zero as possible. I was told that one of the gigantic companies that went out of business was getting $10,000 a week.
00:15:47
Speaker
in warranty work, new warranty work. And at the same time, business has fallen off, permits are down 46% in the United States. So if permits are down and costs are up, yeah that's ah yeah yeah we like now we know what happens when that happens. yeah That's crazy. Yeah, so well, yeah, I mean, it's refreshing to have companies that do it, right? And like we're talking about nothing worse than having to do with stuff on the back end. But yeah, and as you guys have expanded, has it been tough to like maintain the same quality because you're bringing on other people? Do you send people from Arizona that are kind of trained and help you do that?
00:16:22
Speaker
ones And that's why we're going to be in last. We're not going to open up until we're ready. yeah So we out we go slowly. It's taken us years to get into four states. And we're now we're starting to accelerate because we now know more about how to do that. And we've had the you know that opportunity to collaborate with you know a number of people in the space. We're at DDDcon, getting to sit with a panel with Mark Bench and Alan Bolan, these guys that know because they've done it, getting the opportunity to pick their brain in RSA. So being involved in the industry to really find out and and and leverage what other people have already learned and not having to learn it again. I think it's a ah benefit that we have. ah you know There's nothing new under the sun. But we insist on being ready financially so and then ready operationally. And yeah, our director of operations you know moved to Texas and just lived in Texas. There he's interviewing people, training people, hiring people. And then by the time that thing's ready to be set up, then he'll be ready to go to Florida where we're opening up later this month, January, February is our opening
Geographic Expansion Challenges
00:17:21
Speaker
floor. So he'll move to Florida. So he's looking forward to doing that, right? yeah But that makes geographic expansion, you know, you have to give it the time that it takes. Yeah. What's what's been like the hardest part is just learning the different like jurisdictions and net metering and all that or certainly like, I don't know, stories. We're probably better set up than most to understand what the permitting process is going to be. We do that all we have a headquarters and we don't need to replicate that you know that that permitting process. We don't need to replicate the proposal process. We don't need to replicate the customer interaction process. yeah Getting to the local codes,
00:17:58
Speaker
I'm not going to say that it's easy, but it's a small percentage of the upper of learning. So I think we're we're showing up with a good 70% of what you need to know and what you need to do. And Las Vegas was a real challenge because in ah Vegas created this W2 employee only.
00:18:15
Speaker
Situation, you can't sell solar in Nevada if you're not a W2 employee. And yet we have these great partners, great sales partners. And so we had to figure out a way to do business with them so that their sales org worked and that we met the spirit and the letter of the law for having all solar sales people be W2 employees. So that's a challenge. So figuring out the unique geographic challenge is a part. Texas, obviously, they have all these choices. It's deregulated. They can pick any one of 20 or 30 companies when you're in Dallas and Houston, they got billboards up, spring nights and weekends. It's yeah it's like they're selling cell phones yeah for the electric companies. you know ah so There is a local acclimation, but really, you know for us, i mean we've now installed 15,000 systems and there's never been a single person not paid on Fridays.
00:19:05
Speaker
Wow. On Friday. yeah you know And M1 M2 and then Friday after installation, not oh, we didn't get paid because ah some gigantic company didn't get their funding to come in. It's like our jobs to pay you. So we want to make sure financially we've got everybody secured paid and and that's been a hallmark of people trusting us and wanting to do business with it. That's great. So um speaking of Vegas, what did you guys do? All the sales partners? Did you guys just have to bring them in like W2 then? yeah Yeah, so we set up a process where all of their salespeople are onboarded. They are now employees of some solar solution and not like wink, wink, fake, fake, because Vegas is dead serious. those That market's been just horrifically impacted by horrible solar companies blitzing so they could party their ass off in in Vegas for three months. spit And not knowing how Nevada energy works, not knowing how the permit process works, not knowing how the you know electrical boxes need adders for these things and those things. And then getting promised, the consumers being promised things that just aren't true. like Nevada energy has a very specific
00:20:10
Speaker
yeah And a very good, it's a great market from a utility standpoint. They really offer the customer a very, very fair deal. If I could put the Nevada Energy utility deal in place everywhere, I would do it. They were one-to-one net metering. They said, that's not fair. And all of the net metering deals are being challenged because they're not fair. It's not fair if the utility does all the buying and selling, all of the accounting, all of the connectivity, all of the over supply of anything they need, and then they buy and sell at the same price.
00:20:39
Speaker
Yeah. And so they're able to convince the states that they're in that that's not fair and the state goes, yeah, that doesn't sound fair. Yeah. So Nevada energy went back and forth, big law suits, they just ripped it away and then had to put it back. So they came back with net metering, but they came up with a plan to reduce the buyback rate to the customer in, in staunches. So it was first it was a hundred, then it was 92 and then, you know, 88. And then so they sold so many million Watts had done it all the way down. Uh, and now it's at 75%. So the homeowner gets 75% of retail. So if they're selling at 20 cents, the customer gets 75% of 20 cents. And that will go up as prices go up. And that's a very, very 75%. They get a 25% margin in business. Now they don't like 25%. Yeah. But any business should be able to operate on a 25% margin. So that's a fair deal. So understanding that and knowing that, Vegas really is making sure. and There's no wink, wink, fake, fake. We're getting around this loophole. They want to make sure those guys are employees. Why? Employees of a company are representing what that company really does. And you can say, your employee told this guy, this is what it would do. And don't tell me you don't know what he said. He's your employee.
00:21:50
Speaker
And so we take that very seriously. Our partners take that very seriously. And we figured out a structure that absolutely meets the spirit of that, the letter of it. And yet the sales organization and partners able to do well and make money and do their thing. So that wasn't easy. It was tricky. The temptation is to go with the guys who come up with these great ideas on how to get around it. Is there companies doing that? I'm one of the guys who will come up with those. Yeah, we're not doing that. No, sorry. In order to do it right, you have to go this way. It sounded like a good idea. It sounded like a good idea because it was too good to be true. Okay. All right. It's too good to be true.
00:22:26
Speaker
yeah no its Yeah, I saw tons of like you know press people on the news just talking about how they got screwed over in Nevada. so There's some installer people going to jail. Yeah, yeah I won't talk any names or whatever, but there are people that are going to go to jail there. And if people don't do it right in the future, they're going to go to jail and get shut down. I think that's why we all got to learn from some of the mistakes that happen in Nevada, some of the other states, because yeah if we don't, I think it's only a matter of time they're going to do this in every state, I'm sure.
Future of Solar: Customer Satisfaction Focus
00:22:54
Speaker
Yeah. And I like the direction Nevada went with, we're going to make companies responsible that the customers who signed up with them get what they were promised and that they were promised what it does. yeah As opposed to like, you know, California does that, you know, the license, the home seller license thing. And then it's up to every individual dude, you know, to not have handed his license to some other dude. Yes.
00:23:16
Speaker
so I like that companies to be responsible. I think we're coming into a new time in solar. um I absolutely believe 2025 is year one of the solar gold rush 2.0. It's going to be hallmarked by a completely different set of things that people think are awesome. yeah and Now what people are going to think is awesome is that the customer was treated with respect, was transparently offered a product that does what they say that it was going to do, and they end up being five star. They end up being a five star experience, five star review customer. yeah I think that's going to be the coin of the round. ah To be partnered with people that you know are going to do that, because I tell you what, if i knew if i if I heard this from one, I heard it from 300 people,
00:24:00
Speaker
how much they were able to sell at whatever low this red line, rev share line, free batteries, whatever the weird stuff they're you know telling me. ah And then install 200 deals and not get paid on yeah ever. and know and in all times And every deal doesn't have the amount they thought they were going to get paid. yeah you know that's just That's just a bad way to do business. If you have to make your margin by short paying, every that's not yeah Oh, wait, let's let's decide what's fair. Let's do a good business. But the coin of the realm is going to be referrals, right? So currently, we've installed approximately 3 million solar systems from 2010 to 2024. We're going to install 30 million solar systems from now to the end of the decade, the next five, six years. yeah That's a 10x.
00:24:47
Speaker
So the the important thing is gonna be great customer brand, great customer experience, referrals coming from customers, so that when you sell one, you get five more. yeah That's what's gonna be important. And that when you do the work, you know the phone's gonna ring later with referrals with, you know, hey, talk to this guy, you know, go talk to your neighbor. You know, one of the things I love is I open up my my rep card, shout out to our rep card friends over there, yeah and I have all my customers in rep card.
00:25:15
Speaker
that's fair And every street I'm on, I usually have one or two customers on that street and I'll say, and I won't talk to them. I'll just point at their house. Those are the, you know, those are the, the river since go talk to them and ask them what their experience was. And they go through that and they come back and they go, that, that was, yeah, it's just like your review. They said what you're reviewing and I didn't go call them. I just like send them over there and you know, it's possible they could find some grumpy person, but yeah, I'm, I'm comfortable doing that. And that makes me a 10 times. Yeah. as salesper yeah so and um Well, yeah, we've seen some companies, you know, expand and get all these dealers coming in, selling for them. And it's it can be like the wild, wild lesson. The dealer wants a bad salesperson will say whatever and comes back on the install company. So, I mean, I'm sure Chase has helped with this, but what do you guys do to like set the expectation that if you're selling, if you're installing your accounts, you got to be setting exactly this expectation. You can't be.
00:26:10
Speaker
Yeah, well, first of all, we have a different objective. We're not trying to sign up 300 dealers. you know We don't want to be that ETC. We don't want to be an ETC. We want to be a solutions provider. We want to be partners with someone who wants to build value, deliver value, yeah and then build a business based on having a big customer list that has received that value.
00:26:31
Speaker
So we're not looking for large numbers of dealers. We're very, very discriminating about who we do business with. We want to make sure that the people that we're doing business with align with us ethically, aligned with us from a value perspective. And that doesn't mean you have to pay pay more. We're as competitive as anybody else is doing things, you know, even halfway right. But at the same time, what we're not going to do is allow somebody to go out and come up with a napkin and tell someone they're getting 40 panels. and then hand that in and go install it. They're going to have had a proposal that shows what it's going to do. They're going to have paperwork that is accurate. We're going to have checked the usage. We're going to have done this stuff so that I can't tell you how many deals that we've had for people we do think are super ethical. And I think they're trying to be. And they have a solar system where the usage is 12,000. And then we blow up the utility bill and it's 20,000.
00:27:28
Speaker
And they're like, oh, we got it right. Well, no, what's wrong are the numbers. And what's wrong is the customer expectation. yeah If they think they're going to get $130 solar bill and it's going to get rid of their $300 electric bill.
00:27:40
Speaker
It's not going to do that. And they're going to be mad really fast. They're going to be mad really soon. So making sure that those values align and practices align and making sure that we are getting that value delivered. But on the other hand, and it gets installed, we've installed thousands and thousands of these. We had a single one of them leak, not one of them. And that's just because if you do it, right, they're not going to leak. If a roofer put a solar system on, it would leak.
00:28:10
Speaker
When a solar company puts a solar system on, there's like a one in three chance it's going to land. So it all depends on what your objective is. If you're if you're building a hamburger, if you want to like is just ramp it up and flip it and get out of it. right If you're building a business, you want it to have long-term value. You want the phone to ring. Hey, I'm moving. I need another solar system at my new house. Hey, my brother just bought a house, and and he needs solar. So here's his number call, and I told you a caller. That's the kind of referrals you want. like I've been a customer of yours for three years. I have i have a customer. I take him out for dinner every New Year's because he's bought seven solar systems, right? He's kind of a playboy. and picked You know, he's single and bought it yeah bought his mom one. Then he meets a girl, puts solar on her house, and then they move in together and in another house and put solar on that house. Then they didn't like that house. They bought another house, and put solar in that house.
MOD Sales Academy and Training
00:29:04
Speaker
So and anyway, I need, um, got a new address and yeah, give me a solar quote and I just sent him a quote and you know, tell him what the deal is and you sign him up. That's, that's, that's awesome. Yeah. So I want to, um, while we stop time, Mike, I want to talk a little bit. We've been talking about, I just kind of broader things. I want to talk about some sales here. yeah I know it's been what? Three, two, three years since you came out with your books. Yeah. No matter what, no matter what. see Yeah. Got it in Spanish now. sitting the ie plae lo pipase Yes. Yeah. I'm super excited about that. The Latin community. is just embracing like not even looking for it but they invited me to come speak and do a keynote talk at the latin solar con the first one in vegas and then this year in uston and uh man i've got all kinds of social media with me speaking in like telemundo broadcasters spanish people like oh god all i didn't know you said spanish that's all ai obviously see i my yeah yeah it's been fun uh having that community because they're starving
00:29:57
Speaker
Free information. They're like, we want to sell this. And we can't find people who can explain it to us. So I have that. And then I have Spanish subtitles in my academy and stuff. So it's been just a lot of fun getting embraced by that community. That's smart. Because some of our top guys in California, they're the Mexican guys that just sell them, purely. It's a great market, man. I look for bilingual guys. I love bilingual men and women who can sell. Because we're in our headquarters market, Arizona.
00:30:27
Speaker
And then Nevada, Texas, I mean, that's a huge component to be successful in that market. Yeah, important. So yeah, I know you've been ah still doing a lot of training, consulting, coaching. So since you released the book, has anything changed? And I don't know your programs or anything you're doing different as far as like the coaching training for yeah companies and guys? So it's just gotten stronger and stronger. So the need for real sales training, the reason I was able to sell, you know, two, two and a half million watts of solar, every year because I knew how to do it. yeah When I showed up in solar, I already knew how to do it. I'd started selling solar in 1984. And I got brought on by some guys who had sold, you know, aluminum siding and windows and big satellite dishes. And they knew large ticket home improvement.
00:31:10
Speaker
today only closing. They knew how to do it. They're like, Mike, don't think you're coming back. You're not coming back. yeah So they taught me how to, so when the customer says, can you give me this proposal? Can I let you know in a day or two? Here's how you handle that. So I was taught how to do that. So when I started showing up and I'm selling three out of four, four out of five, and everyone else is selling one out of five, that made a huge impact.
00:31:31
Speaker
yeah And so creating the book, telling that story and then the MOD Sales Academy yeah and getting that training down, right? yeah Getting that training so it's mechanized. And number one, I use that for my training. Number two, now I'm using with my sales partners, right? To get them just up and selling. In fact, that's one of the things I really love about what we're doing. I've never seen an EPC, which again, I don't think of us as an EPC, right? A solutions provider and part of the solution we're providing is how to sell this stuff, yeah how to take your reps and take them to a new level. And so that's really where I focus my time. We've mechanized it with the MOD Sales Academy. And then I do live training every single solitary day, Monday through Friday in person. I do that at eight o'clock mountain time. yeah ah And so one of the things that's changed when we first put it together, I had a lot of cost involved. That's all been taken care of. And so it was pretty expensive to be a part of that. Now and at Duty Decon, I have individual solar sales dudes and roofing dudes. And I got all kinds of door-to-d door-to-door folks. It's very similar. I just had to sell solar, right? yeah But it's the MOD Sales Academy. How to sell high ticket home improvement sales tickets and how to get the order today, how to make the appointment.
00:32:43
Speaker
how to make the presentation, how to close today. And there's a very specific sequence on how to do that. And I teach people how exactly how to do that. And the key is really having that customer attain the courage to let the customer know in the very first 10 minutes of the meeting that they're not coming back. yeah Yeah, I'm not coming back. And have them understand that, by the way, you're not coming back, right? This isn't the meeting about the meeting, and there's not going to be another meeting. 95 times out of 100, there's not a second meeting. pa So if you don't serve the customer in this meeting, you've let the customer down.
00:33:17
Speaker
Yeah. They have failed to receive the benefits that they were excited about. Can you imagine the guys drinking at the regress I have in solar are getting the call from somebody that I pitched four years ago and they could have had net metering and now they missed it and they wanted it. They were excited and somehow I couldn't find what I needed for them.
00:33:37
Speaker
to be able to move forward and get the process started and four years later I'm putting a system on that's, you know, they just missed out on a lot of things. and So those are the regrets I have and really trying to get solar sales people to understand what a valuable service this is. No one's going to pay you a half a million dollars a year if you're not delivering a half a million dollars with this service. No one's going to pay you a million dollars. You might accidentally make a million dollars.
00:34:00
Speaker
in a year yeah but you're not going to make a million dollars year after year after year unless you're worth a million dollars somebody will figure out a way to get that money away from you unless you're the one delivering the value and that's the weird thing it's counterintuitive nobody thinks that they're delivering the value yeah like getting someone to make a decision today and get the process started today but that's actually the job that's actually the value because none Nuns of the values of solar attributes to the customer unless they sign and get the paperwork started and start the process. They can't finish the process if they don't start the process. So teaching people to have the courage and the conviction to say things like, I'm not going to be coming back. Now let me explain to you why. So they go, Oh, I get that. Yeah. Oh, I understand. Oh, I see what your job is. I know what you do. And so at the end when they say, are you kidding? Can you email me this proposal? We're going to need to spend a lot of time. with you like yeah ah Yes, I can even email you the proposal. Can gixon you come back on Friday? No, there's no chance. And what we're doing is we're creating the most powerful clothes and people think it's so high pressure. It's just the fact I'm not coming back. I'm not. I'm not coming back. I mean, it's the sign I'll come back.
00:35:13
Speaker
I'm now doing a thing where I do a reduced cancellation strategy where I make sure me and my reps come back within 48 hours with a gift. Here's your first sunflower but solar collector. By the way, what are you guys talking about since I left? you know trying to get the Trying to get the vibe and the objections that come up from the solar coaster from after I leave. But and from a sales standpoint, yeah, my job is to be in three or four of these things every single day. And I'm not going to get that job done if I'm chasing people around who can't make a damn decision anyway. They're not for me anyway.
00:35:43
Speaker
yeah you know I'm going to turn them over. you know So at the end of this meeting, and that's what I'm explaining to you, I'm going to get my job done. yeah I'm going to get my job done. At the end of this meeting, we're going to reach a fork in the road. yeah And you're going to become a solar project that's underway, or you're going to become a leader. Yeah, I actually met a guy so you said that you guys who wrote I don't really say that marcha says well said You tell people when you don't really say that I don't tell people they're gonna become a leader. I tell them we have a department to follow up and they will they're awesome By the way, are you impressed with really good follow-up from a sales organization? you have mad are you being impressed with these guys wellm not shit they're good yeah You're not forget you're interested in so that's not my job I don't do that
00:36:24
Speaker
And so able to build that and have the customer understand it. And then when they ask me, can we sign for this? and they Oh, yeah, you can. But it won't be with me. And they want you. At this point, price if they want. And that's the takeaway. It's not pressure. It's just mastering the sales process so that it does deliver the volume value. Because if you are not good at that, then your closing percentage is industry-wide average of about 18%. There's a lot of people who are going to miss the value and the benefits of solar at the right time, because you didn't know how to do what you were doing, man. They sent you to the house to get a job done. So know how to do that job, be trained, yeah how to do that job. So in the M.O.D. sales academy, people say, where do you where's this converse? Where's this concept? Where'd you get the speech? That's not a speech, it's a conversation. And I'm having that conversation every day, and every day that conversation changed. It's not just training, it's a mastermind. Every day, somebody who's been in solar for like 11 minutes says something that I never thought of. Oh my God, I never thought of that. yeah And now all of a sudden I'm equipped with that. I'm getting better and better and better at knocking on doors, making appointments, enclosing, because the the value of having 50, 60 people in a mastermind on a crawl, all coming up with the very best of what their experience is and then handing it to me.
00:37:44
Speaker
yeah And then me incorporating it back into the training. So the training here said, what's changed? The training changes all the time. And that's because I'm always trying to be talking about at the door and at the table and at the close with unbelievably urgent, unbelievably compelling shit they just heard on TV. Like, Oh, I heard about that. That's what's going on. yeah I'm just gonna Holy smokes, get rid of the IRA. You better get it now, pal. That's over. you know We got we have about we gotta to get going, man. so That's changing all of the time because the circumstances on the ground. I mean i can't believe that passage. Being able to equip people with that, man that's my favorite part.
Sales Strategies and Market Adaptation
00:38:24
Speaker
if People say, what's your favorite? Why are you passionate about this? I love this. I love doing it when I'm sitting with a customer and they go,
00:38:29
Speaker
No, I get it. I'm not trying to save 30 bucks a month. I'm trying to end up 150 grand a head. If I capture this 25-year payment stream, instead of having us fill in this monopoly, have this 25-year payment stream, I'm going to end up tens and tens and even hundreds of thousands of dollars a head. That's why they weren't the business. And we're going to capture that payment stream and run it into our own power plant deal. You're going to end up so far ahead when a customer goes,
00:38:56
Speaker
Oh, I get it. I had three solar guys talk to me and I thought, why the hell would I go $50,000 into debt yeah to save $35 a month? That's not even, that doesn't make any sense. It's like, that doesn't make sense. yeah And so you have to learn how to really sell solar. That's completely different. And if you're still selling solar on savings, that's why you're not here anymore. yeah So we lost, you know, 46% decrease in permits. It's 46% less sales, yeah which is probably 46% less people.
00:39:22
Speaker
in the industry. right ah if you're If you made it through that, you know you've survived an ordeal. right yeah and And now that it's time, and and the ordeal was selling solar when solar didn't provide much or any savings. yeah And if you've learned how to sell solar, you're going to be in such great shape. The tide's coming back in, interest rates are coming back down. This is going to be year one.
00:39:45
Speaker
Yes. Of the Solar Gold Rush 2.0. I know. Well, I've just talked to some people. I think the guys that can make it through some of the slums, because a lot of people have left, but the guys that stick with us, stay in the trenches, those are the ones that are going to be in the natural reactions I've seen. Yeah. And those are ones that are going to be making the big money because they're going to be leading the teams and be leading the companies with the exact settles, right? And everybody who's left to go and back and sell pest control, just be kind of waving at us, just be passing by again. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, so true. Cause I mean, perfect example, California, net metering change, all the reps that we're making. over so Yeah, they're all selling based off the savings. yeah And i over I know from my own team, I saw dozens and dozens of guys, they couldn't make it just because they didn't, they really did not sell it.
00:40:33
Speaker
we're sewing up purely savings and then now that people weren't able to. It was one of the free places you could actually pull that off. Yeah. Because there really was, you know, you could get a hundred dollars a month in say those. Yeah. Most of the places, you know, you're going to be, it's going to be hard to muster if everything's right, sometimes right you know, 30, $40, $50 a month in savings. Yeah. It's hard to get that on a lot of proposals. There's just going to be, you know, yeah it look, my pitch to anybody is how much does solar cost? It costs it's cost less. Yes. here's it got What are you spending out? It's less than that. How much less? ah Do you care about that? okay do We need to get you another 50 bucks a month so you guys can get out, you know, to to Wendy's one more time a month.
00:41:10
Speaker
That's not the idea. That's not the problem. The problem is, and and the issue is, is what's going to happen to you and your family if you don't go solar? And I know how to demonstrate that. I know how to show you that with an amount of conviction, where you're going to go, oh, shit. That's really bad news, man. I'm not here with good news. I'm here with bad news. I have a solution to the bad news. But if you're knocking on doors going, Hey, I'm your local neighborhood solar guy and I can save you money. It's going to cost less to be so white. So I go say savings. Yeah. That's how you're selling solar. People are going to be disappointed and be like, why did we just waste an hour and a half to find out we're going to save $38? I mean, that's, we're not going into it. So you have to know.
00:41:52
Speaker
If you do this correctly, a solar presentation should kind of freak somebody out. Yeah. They should look at the thing and go, oh, damn it. I didn't know that. Oh, wow. I'm so glad you're here. Yeah. So what do you, I'm curious, only $38 a month more. all right Where do I sign? Yeah. Yeah. So I'm curious, with my so people that, cause you know, there's some people that attention span really short. You can't sometimes it's tougher to build things. Like I get to the point, show me the numbers, do this. How do you adjust your presentation? Maybe based on guys that different personality types and people that. Yeah.
00:42:21
Speaker
could be a challenge yeah That could be a challenge. I liken it and I do training with people on how to shake somebody's hands. Take my hand. That seemed like a pretty good handshake. It was exactly your handshake. So I'm instantaneously reading how you shake hands. Because when somebody shakes hands like you do, your impression of them is, that's a good start. He seems like a good guy. He he has a good handshake. Give me a little toast handshake.
00:42:49
Speaker
yeah I'm going to live toast that, right? Squeeze the live toast. I got the jerk. So in that, so in your, in a presentation, you're going to be reading what the customer's IO input output rate is, right? How high a level are they? What frequency are they? And if somebody wants to really capture this in 17 minutes, man, I'm going to, we're going to get this done in 17 minutes. You know, if I come here an hour later and I know they don't really get it, then we got more ground to cover. So you got to really be perceptive and reading their frequency level. I got to go backstage with Sam and Erwin Bickman, who's the author of the seven frequencies and stuff. He's going to be with us in Iceland, by the way, when we do the circle trip, international trip. It's really being able to read and proceed. That's really kind of what our job is, is to find out. Our job isn't to talk, our job is to get them to listen. Yeah. So how can we pick up on their ability, their input output speed, their frequency level? So if somebody wants to just have an entire presentation by asking me questions, I'm like, let's go. I'll let them have it. And I'll take back control where it makes sense by asking them questions. Oh, you don't know that. So let me explain that to you. Just show me the number. Well, the number involves a massive amount of money from the federal government. Do you know what that is? Do you know the amount you're getting? What are you entitled to?
00:44:12
Speaker
No, let's go over that. So we're going to cover that. By the way, the solar number isn't about the solar equipment. It's about the interaction between you and the utility. Do you know how much you're getting paid from the utility by selling them power every day? No. Let me show you how that works. Oh, OK. I like making them realize that they need to hear the information. Yeah. Oh, you're ignorant about that. I'm not. Let me explain it to you, right? So just give me the number guy. And even if they had three solar guys, they probably don't know that stuff.
00:44:42
Speaker
You know, so the three things that I'm going to make sure I have covered before I get into a proposal is the three things that are way more important than the proposal. So, and that's how do the federal tax credits work? Do they understand it? How is the utility interaction work? Do they understand it? And then how does inflation bear on this whole conversation? And we're going to have, this is going to be a long conversation. Are you showing them charts and graphs?
00:45:05
Speaker
If I get that guy, I'll show him charts and graphs. We'll geek out on you know finance charts and graphs about inflation. If he's that guy, I'll geek out with him. yeah But if it's just the guy that needs to say, oh, okay, well, you're right an expert, you know what it's talking about. So my utility costs are going to double yeah in the next five, seven years. yeah That's happening it's already happening. In fact, we're already a third of the way there. Utility rates have gone up 30% in just the last three years. So I mean,
00:45:28
Speaker
The graph of the curve is like that. We had some guys here from Canada in my MoD call this morning. Utility rates have went up 1,000% in the last seven years. They went from 14 cents to 30 cents. This is not good news. When you see a graph that does this, this is really bad news. It's going to have a massive impact.
00:45:53
Speaker
And we might as well not talk about solar unless you understand, because the entire thing is about that. Yeah. Incredible. Well, ah Mike, its we could go on forever. I know we got stuff to get to here. But last question before we wrap up. yeah So I don't know if you're on this solar sales panel yesterday, but one of the questions Danny Pesci asked the guys up there was he said this that we're at like 55% cancellations as an industry. Wow. which far yes I'm sure your company is much better than Apple. Yeah, I'm not, ah I'm not surprised. I definitely seen a lot of reps though. So, uh, what do you think, what do you think reps are doing or for you guys? What do you think? is I know you mentioned just dropping up like a customer gift, but is there anything else you guys do in specifics that you think can help decrease this number? I have a very elaborate training that's a result of a mastermind of the best solar reps in the whole country telling me what they do because I never had to worry about it. I never did a lot of training on reducing cancellations. I mean, I could have probably made it better, but my cancellation rate was about 18% through 12 million watts of solar. so i
00:46:56
Speaker
Can I fix it? Probably should have made it a little better. In the beginning as a sales rep and I had my first cancellation, I just throw over it to their house ah yeah and I recommend driving over to their house. So I never, ever, ever call anybody that cancels. I recommend you just drive to their house and then show up and say, hey, my office just messaged me that you guys have some concerns and we may need to stop the project. I have the paperwork with me. Can I commit?
00:47:21
Speaker
Okay. We got to get back to the, a cancellation is just the customer letting you know that they found their objection. And what's our job? but Overcome. over Overcome objections. Oh, just the salesman is needed. So in my company, that's called shaking out cancellation. When the customer cancels, that means they're shaky. So you need to get back to the cancellation, get back to the table and
Addressing Sales Challenges
00:47:42
Speaker
make them shake. What can we do to prove, you know, have that happen less to to make that?
00:47:47
Speaker
ah Our cancellation rate has gone up in the last year and last year and a half as well. It's nowhere, oh my God, 50% I would just commit suicide. I would kill my i put a bullet in my brain yeah if I had a 55% cancellation rate as a person or as a company. We're nowhere near that, but it's above where we were historically at that below 20% rate. It's crept up. yeah So we're really focused on that. I have a very specific training about what to do tactics during the presentation, during the clothes. I'm doing my clothes differently, okay? So that people have some time to breathe on the idea that they're not getting solar. yeah Let them be sad about that a little bit, you know? Before I move into the clothes, and the today-only clothes and that, ah so that I can spend time there in that realm of, huh, you're not getting solar. So tell me why. What are you what are your main concern? After I leave, what are the two you're going to talk about?
00:48:37
Speaker
about why you shouldn't move forward with solar now. On here, at least bounce it off me. Sure, let's put this in your email, right? Yeah, sir, you can have it. yeah I won't be the one coming back, but you know whenever you're ready, our company will be ready. yeah but So spending time getting them to give you the objections. I get really lazy because my clothes is so good, I can just blast pie them and get them signed. And then they wake up the next morning and go, yeah, but we're moving yeah or whatever. you know We're going to move someday.
00:49:02
Speaker
but So i've I've really slowed that down and and I've got a great, I'm on a road show right now doing that training, doing that in Vegas next week, I'm in Texas doing it, the week after that I'll be in Florida later in the month doing that reduced cancellations. Training, I'm gonna be at ah at up at ah at a big deep dive in Houston at the end of the month with Jay Cass doing one. so So I'm really trying to get that ah message out there and I think it's important. But the main thing is, no matter how bad they are, do whatever you can, get the training to improve it.
00:49:32
Speaker
understand it's part of the numbers. Like even at 18% it was devastating. right You just it's oh my god. it's okay So understand it's part of the numbers. This isn't magic. It's math. And so I'm more concerned with a whole nother statistic. And that's how many appointments set by setters are turning into sets. Yeah, that number is frightening. terrible too Yeah. Oh my God. So, you know, I'm working on that. We're doing trainings for that. But part of it just has to do with how horrible this economy has been. yeah And so people are like, they say yes to the setter. Yeah. I'll get numbers. That seems reasonable. Yeah. And then the the spouse comes home there. Honey, tomorrow the solar guy's coming who's going to show up. Are you out of your mind? but um and the easier buying solar We're on the roof looking for the locusts coming over the horizon because this is the end times. All the Christians on the block are about to disappear. They're all getting teamed up. hey yeah like We're not buying stuff right now. We're not spending $50,000. What are you talking about? and They canceled the appointments. yeah
00:50:29
Speaker
And so I've got a great setter training on after the set is made, how to make sure that doesn't happen. Okay, that's awesome. Yeah, I know that's a big topic. Completely separate podcast just on that. Right. Yeah. ah You know me. else let's Yeah. yeah but I know it's a definitely check and go shoot Mike Apollo. I know you're going to be announcing, you know, future trainings and all that. yeah You're speaking at solar con coming up here. I don't have trainings in the academy. So I'm already sales. scan Oh, I think I was telling you, uh, it used to cost a lot of money to do that. So one of the things that changed is it's now 99 bucks a month to do the whole thing. All the live calls, all the training, all everything. I've got all my costs out of it. Um, and so, We're just trying to make it as stupid, inexpensive and available and accessible to every single yeah solar rep. And companies also do that with a group in enterprise deals and stuff. So I just, I want to make sure that people who need it get the training and doing it every day.
00:51:23
Speaker
um day every day Yeah, that's super for 99 bucks. And yeah, I guarantee that's going to make you some extra money. Probably more than 99 bucks. Yeah. Right. Right. For today. Yeah. We'll just save one chance. We'll get one more appointment. Take one more close. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be stupid. Yeah.
Community Engagement and New Platforms
00:51:40
Speaker
So awesome. So guys, go check that out. And Mike, it's so, it's always a pleasure having you on. and I'm sure we'll do it again soon. And then wait for number five. clock test five go into interview you awesome to do this with you and i get so much feedback
00:51:53
Speaker
from people all over the place about solar front air and he me there and other people on solar printing or It's one of the things i listen to to all the time so i appreciate and and enjoy this developing kind of dialogue we're now having over the course of years and years of years so so fun i's been fun, so always consider Mike a great friend. Go check him out and thanks Kim for coming on Mike. Absolutely, absolutely brother. Thank you.
00:52:16
Speaker
So some of you already know that I run my own door to door sales team here in San Diego. And as we were gearing up for the summer, I realized if we do the same thing we always did, we're going to get the same results. But if I want to increase my deal flow, I need to do something different to get an advantage. Then we discovered an app called Solar Scout. But it's not a door knocking app. It's a data platform that shows us who is likely to go solar in our market.
00:52:41
Speaker
It shows us who has previously applied for solar but later cancelled the deal, who has moved in recently, and even how much electricity the homes are using in a given neighborhood. It's been working for a lot of teams across the country and now I'm on board too. I'm going to be one of the first to use Solar Scout in San Diego so I decided to partner up, but I told them hey, I'm going to talk about Solar Scout on my show, you need to get my listeners a great deal, and they did.
00:53:06
Speaker
So go to solar scout dot app forward slash Taylor and book a demo with them and you'll get 10% off your first month when you sign up. That's solar scout dot app forward slash Taylor. Okay, back to the show.
00:53:21
Speaker
hey solar printers quick question what if you could surround yourself with the industry's top performing sales pros marketers and ceos and learn from their experience and wisdom in less than 20 minutes a day for the last three years i've been placed in the fortunate position to interview dozens of elite level solar professionals and learn exactly what they do behind closed doors to build their solar careers to an all-star level that's why i want to make a truly special announcement about the new learning community exclusively for solar professionals to learn, compete, and win with top performers in the industry, and it's called a society. This learning community was designed from the ground up to level the playing field and give solar pros access to proven mentors who want to give back to this community and help you or your team to be held accountable by the industry's brightest minds for, are you ready for it, less than $3.45 a day. Currently Soulciety is open, launched, and ready to be enrolled. So go to Soulciety.co to learn more and join the learning experience now. This is exclusively for Soulprenuer listeners, so be sure to go to Soulciety.co and join. We'll see you on the inside.