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Noah Wunsch Was Born to Collect
21 Plays6 years ago
In collector Noah Wunsch's private life one rule guides his hand: “no matter what you're buying make sure you like it.“ In this episode, Ben takes the measure of Noah’s treasure, which ranges from a 60 BC Visigothic belt buckle to the zany artwork of Genieve Figgis.
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Transcript
The Essence of Collecting
00:00:00
Speaker
The one thing I needed to learn, which has stayed true from the beginning, was no matter what, what comes first is make sure that you really love this piece, that you want to live with it, that it has a livability that goes with your life.
00:00:10
Speaker
And that if it's not worth anything to anybody else, it's still worth something to you.
00:00:14
Speaker
Absolutely.
Introduction to 'Curious Objects' Podcast
00:00:24
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to Curious Objects, brought to you by the magazine Antiques.
00:00:28
Speaker
I'm Ben Miller.
00:00:29
Speaker
If you're a long-time listener, you've heard me talk with dealers and curators, scholars and auctioneers, craftsmen and connoisseurs.
00:00:35
Speaker
But one group we haven't spent much time with is the people who make this whole industry work, collectors.
00:00:41
Speaker
These are the people who buy from dealers and from auctions, who donate to museums, who read books and articles, some of them even listen to podcasts.
Meet Noah Wunsch: Passion for Art and Design
00:00:50
Speaker
So, for today's episode, I was thrilled to be joined by Noah Wunsch.
00:00:55
Speaker
Noah and his brother Eric together run the Decorative Arts Foundation established by their grandfather, legendary collector Eric Martin Wunsch.
00:01:02
Speaker
Noah also has a job at Sotheby's, but aside from all that, he is an enthusiast for art, decorative arts, and what people nowadays like to call design.
00:01:10
Speaker
I sat down with Noah in his Manhattan apartment, which used to be a storeroom for the family collection.
00:01:15
Speaker
It's filled with all manner of curious objects, from ancient to modern and everything in between.
00:01:21
Speaker
If you're like me and are curious about what makes collectors tick, and how they think about weather and what to buy, I think you'll enjoy this episode.
00:01:28
Speaker
And if you'd like to see pictures of all these objects, go to themagazineantiques.com slash podcast, or visit my Instagram at Objective Interest.
Freeman's Auction House: Storytelling Through Objects
00:01:38
Speaker
Before we jump in, here's a quick word from our sponsor.
00:01:41
Speaker
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00:01:49
Speaker
Freeman's, America's oldest auction house, tells the stories of these and other curious objects.
00:01:54
Speaker
Discover Pennsylvania's craft legacy, go behind the scenes at auctions and exhibitions, and uncover your passion for collecting.
00:02:01
Speaker
Visit freemansauction.com to sign up for their newsletter and get these stories and more delivered straight to your inbox.
Preserving Early American Decorative Arts
00:02:15
Speaker
Um, okay.
00:02:17
Speaker
I want to start off by saying thank you Noah Wunch very much for being on the podcast.
00:02:23
Speaker
It's my pleasure.
00:02:24
Speaker
And I want to know a little bit about the history of this foundation, um, of which you are a third generation member, if I'm counting right.
00:02:34
Speaker
Yes.
00:02:34
Speaker
So, so what is the Wunch Foundation and how did it get its start?
00:02:38
Speaker
So the Wunch Americana Foundation is a nonprofit that's focused on making sure that early American decorative arts and Americana as a field continues to progress.
00:02:49
Speaker
And that can mean any number of things.
00:02:52
Speaker
And we hope that it does, of course.
00:02:54
Speaker
I think the way that my brother and I
00:02:57
Speaker
are certainly inspired is by connecting a newer, younger generation to the field as well.
Eric Martin Wunsch's Legacy in Collecting
00:03:03
Speaker
Finding narrative through lines, finding experiences that can help educate them and help them understand that anything dated, anything that was an antique or considered to be, at one point was the height of contemporary.
00:03:18
Speaker
Everything has its period of modernism.
00:03:21
Speaker
And finding narratively the through lines, particularly through contemporary design, that connects those dots.
00:03:28
Speaker
And how has the mission of the foundation changed over time?
00:03:32
Speaker
Or has it been very consistent?
00:03:34
Speaker
You know, it's a funny thing.
00:03:35
Speaker
I didn't get to talk too much about it with my grandfather when he was alive, which is unfortunate.
00:03:42
Speaker
And he got the ball rolling.
00:03:44
Speaker
He started, yes.
00:03:45
Speaker
Eric Martin Wunsch, for which we give an annual award in his honor, was the one who started it.
00:03:52
Speaker
And he was an academic collector.
00:03:54
Speaker
And I mean that... How long ago was that?
00:03:57
Speaker
uh he started collecting i believe he started the foundation this is this is the lore of the foundation um that he started the foundation actually even before he started acquiring pieces it was as if he had the foresight that that this was coming this was a progression in his life um and then then obviously so he wasn't born a collector he became a collector that's an interesting question that
00:04:22
Speaker
I think he must have been born a collector just with the fastidiousness he approached the field with.
00:04:30
Speaker
He was certainly, I'm fortunate and I hope I got some of his genes, he was brilliant.
00:04:36
Speaker
He went to MIT, he was a mechanical engineer, just like my great grandfather Joseph Wunsch.
00:04:44
Speaker
He was a brilliant man and he dedicated himself to the field in that his approach was making sure he knew everything about it.
00:04:53
Speaker
Every single nook and cranny.
00:04:54
Speaker
I think that's what I've gained the most understanding about from talking to people in the field who knew him so much that he could definitely be difficult.
00:05:03
Speaker
But
Innovative Collaborations with Contemporary Designers
00:05:04
Speaker
his difficulty usually derived from his knowledge.
00:05:07
Speaker
There's one story about how he was kind of lusting after this piece for years.
00:05:13
Speaker
He was trying to get a collector to pass it over to him, whether by a trade or acquisition.
00:05:20
Speaker
And then on the final day, it was ready.
00:05:23
Speaker
The trade, the collection was about to happen.
00:05:26
Speaker
And my grandfather, before saying, OK, let's move forward, said, I want to inspect the piece again.
00:05:32
Speaker
And he inspected it and he found something with it that he didn't realize or recognize before.
00:05:37
Speaker
In those years of dedication, he was able to wipe away in one fell swoop because he realized that it wasn't the perfect example that he was looking for.
00:05:45
Speaker
And that's something I can't relate to.
00:05:48
Speaker
If I'm tracking something for years and I find on the last day there's discrepancy, I'll say, nah, you know.
00:05:53
Speaker
Yeah, we'll deal with that later.
00:05:54
Speaker
Exactly, yeah.
00:05:56
Speaker
And I really respect that.
00:05:58
Speaker
I think that, again, it speaks to his dedication.
00:06:00
Speaker
It's a spirit of perfectionism.
00:06:02
Speaker
Exactly.
00:06:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:05
Speaker
And so today, the foundation has pieces that are on exhibit at museums around the country.
00:06:12
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:06:15
Speaker
What does the medium to long-term future of the foundation look like?
00:06:19
Speaker
What do you want it to be doing in 10 or 20 years from now?
00:06:23
Speaker
I think we want to continue on the path we're going right now.
00:06:25
Speaker
Eric and I have been working on a commission series with contemporary designers where we work with them and we discuss our collection with them.
00:06:37
Speaker
And usually in a collaborative process, we decide on one piece for them to work with in the foundation.
00:06:44
Speaker
And we ask them to create what is not a reinterpretation, but probably something that's inspired by the piece.
00:06:53
Speaker
And we found that, again, narratively, that's a really nice through line and a nice way of telling a story of how these pieces work in temporary and why they're important.
00:07:02
Speaker
A great example, again, of working with an institution was with the Wadsworth Athenaeum, where Eric and I put together, with Brandy Culp, a fantastic panel.
00:07:12
Speaker
of people in contemporary design and decorative arts talking about the through lines between the two.
00:07:18
Speaker
And this was also to honor a loan of a piece that we had commissioned by David Wiseman, this beautiful mirror that goes with a Japanese desk, a knee hole that we have as well.
00:07:28
Speaker
And the Wadsworth has those two pieces on view right now in a room.
00:07:31
Speaker
And it's beautiful.
00:07:33
Speaker
They're amazing together and they complement each other so well.
00:07:37
Speaker
We worked with...
00:07:38
Speaker
some really brilliant contemporary designers to create what we hope will be masterpieces and continue to thrive as long as the pieces in our collections have.
00:07:48
Speaker
We want to continue to work with institutions and make sure that we loan those, though, and get them on view.
00:07:54
Speaker
We did a great event with the Metropolitan Museum of Art a few years back.
00:07:57
Speaker
I've heard of them.
00:07:59
Speaker
Small institution.
00:08:00
Speaker
They're fantastic.
00:08:01
Speaker
And we do love collaborating with them, too.
Highlighting Unique Historical Pieces
00:08:04
Speaker
We brought a small, not actually a small group.
00:08:06
Speaker
We brought about 200 people, mostly under the age of 30, to the Americana Wing to hear Elise England speak about pieces in the wing and, of course, focus on the John Brown chair, which is kind of the greatest piece in our collection, I would say.
00:08:23
Speaker
Can you give me a 30-second overview of this chair?
00:08:26
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:08:27
Speaker
So the John Brown chair, it's a corner chair, and it's kind of the perfect representation of what a corner chair should be like in form.
00:08:36
Speaker
And I think one of the greatest things that I learned from Elise, actually, on that little tour, was that the corner chair was essentially the lazy boy of its time.
00:08:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:46
Speaker
I love that.
00:08:48
Speaker
That ergonomically, and you can see this in its form, that it's really a chair that you don't, I can't say you sink into because it is still a wooden chair, but you can see in the curves of it how the rectilinear quality of it, it's something that you certainly ease into after dinner.
00:09:04
Speaker
It's kind of, you know, after you have a big meal, you just kind of rest into the corner chair.
00:09:10
Speaker
And I love that.
00:09:11
Speaker
It's not one of the side chairs that forces you to have good posture.
00:09:14
Speaker
No, no.
00:09:15
Speaker
But it was amazing how that one little idea completely can change your perspective on a piece of furniture.
00:09:21
Speaker
The idea of an early American piece as a quote-unquote lazy boy.
00:09:25
Speaker
I love that.
00:09:26
Speaker
Yeah, well, and it's relatable.
00:09:28
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
00:09:29
Speaker
And I don't think it diminishes the artisan craftsmanship of it because, God, the curves on that piece, they're so beautiful.
00:09:36
Speaker
But suddenly when you see it that way, it shifts because you can see someone just
Noah's Philosophy on Collecting
00:09:40
Speaker
easing into it.
00:09:40
Speaker
It does suddenly take on a pose of comfort that isn't like a corner chair, not a corner chair, pardon me, a side table chair or Queen Anne.
00:09:51
Speaker
It isn't so upright and sturdy and formal.
00:09:55
Speaker
It's fun.
00:09:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:56
Speaker
So people collect for a lot of different reasons, and sometimes one person may collect for many different reasons at the same time.
00:10:03
Speaker
But the way that you describe settling into a chair, sinking into it, it's a very personal kind of approach to the object.
00:10:12
Speaker
It makes you think of all the people who did settle into that chair in that way over time when it was first made and since then.
00:10:19
Speaker
Would you say you connect to objects in that way on sort of a personal use level?
00:10:26
Speaker
That's a great question.
00:10:28
Speaker
On a personal use level, I think that my collecting habits have certainly been a little, a bit more contemporary.
00:10:35
Speaker
So I don't know that they've had the opportunity to have as much historic wear to them.
00:10:40
Speaker
And we'll get to that in a minute because I want to talk about some of the things that you have collected.
00:10:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:46
Speaker
I think what I have gained, especially from learning from my grandfather's way of collecting, though, is doing the background research, making sure that anything that I do acquire from a third party has a certificate of authenticity or has the means to get that authentication from an estate.
00:11:04
Speaker
But no, I think more the thing that draws me and my collecting habits these days is the story of the designer itself, themself, pardon me, the story of the piece, the thought that went behind it.
The Value of Authentication and Provenance
00:11:16
Speaker
And I think as we briefly mentioned before recording, I like color.
00:11:23
Speaker
I like splashy colors.
00:11:24
Speaker
I have like big bombastic colors.
00:11:25
Speaker
I have a little bit of what I like to call ugly design taste that I enjoy.
00:11:31
Speaker
It makes living with it a lot more fun, in my opinion.
00:11:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:34
Speaker
So it is, you are driven aesthetically, not just by the stories around pieces.
00:11:42
Speaker
You raise an interesting point when you mention certificates of authenticity.
00:11:47
Speaker
I talk on this show with a lot of dealers and a lot of scholars and specialists and that sort of thing.
00:11:54
Speaker
These are the people writing those certificates.
00:11:56
Speaker
But as a collector, as someone who's buying across a wide range of different fields, because you don't just own corner chairs, for example,
00:12:07
Speaker
What are the sources or the hallmarks of reliability that you depend on when you're buying products?
00:12:18
Speaker
That's a great question.
00:12:19
Speaker
I think, A, the major auction houses I do feel pretty strongly that I can trust.
00:12:27
Speaker
If I go with a gallery, and actually the table we're sitting at right now, which is Shiro Koremada's Kyoto table, I got from a gallery.
00:12:35
Speaker
And I hadn't dealt with the gallery in the past.
00:12:39
Speaker
Luckily, the gallerist was wonderful to work with.
00:12:41
Speaker
He was great and he let me be the obnoxious person that I am and tried to negotiate him down as much as possible.
00:12:48
Speaker
But the main thing that was important to me was that this was an authentic Kouramata piece.
00:12:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:53
Speaker
And he said that he had been in touch with the Memphis estate and that they had affirmed that this is the real deal.
00:13:01
Speaker
And I said, well, do you have a certificate?
Craftsmanship vs. Modern Production Methods
00:13:03
Speaker
And he said, no, but I can put you in touch with the estate and make sure that they'll provide you one.
00:13:08
Speaker
And if you look under the table, there is, in fact, a certificate granted from the
00:13:12
Speaker
Memphis saying that this is the real deal.
00:13:15
Speaker
So that was important to me because I love this piece and I love Koremata's work and I didn't want to get a re-edition.
00:13:21
Speaker
I wanted to make sure that this was made in his lifetime.
00:13:23
Speaker
That was important to me.
00:13:25
Speaker
Why was that, this is a tangent, but why was that important to you?
00:13:28
Speaker
Well, I think if you are acquiring a piece too that's of value to you, whether that is monetary value or sentimental value,
00:13:41
Speaker
I don't have rose-tinted glasses on.
00:13:46
Speaker
I'm not of the mindset that Shirk Ramada worked with the cement and glass of this piece with his hands.
00:13:53
Speaker
I'm sure it was mass-produced in that way.
00:13:55
Speaker
But knowing that...
00:13:57
Speaker
Maybe.
00:13:58
Speaker
Maybe he touched something on his table.
00:14:00
Speaker
Maybe he had some oversight to confirm that the glass was laid out just the way he wanted it to, that it did replicate his vision of minimalism and bombast at the same time.
00:14:14
Speaker
That's a concept we run across in the world of antique silver all the time.
00:14:18
Speaker
Because, of course, there were...
00:14:23
Speaker
There are very collectible makers.
00:14:26
Speaker
Everyone seeks these makers, whether it's Hester Bateman in England or whether it's Paul Revere in America.
00:14:36
Speaker
And I think some people are under the illusion that a Paul Revere tablespoon is.
00:14:41
Speaker
was made by Paul Revere standing at his anvil with his hammer and pounding it out.
00:14:49
Speaker
And sometimes I have to disillusion people and it's very disappointing to learn that no, in fact, it was a business.
00:14:59
Speaker
And some silversmiths were more likely to have done that work with their own hands than others.
00:15:05
Speaker
But that doesn't mean that Paul Revere's silver is any less interesting and valuable.
00:15:12
Speaker
It did pass through his business, and it is in a sense his.
00:15:17
Speaker
And so you are in a sense connected to him.
00:15:20
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:15:21
Speaker
Again, I think that what you're touching on is probably also why we do believe as a family and I think as a field that Americana is so important to, which is that those were those are not mass produced.
00:15:33
Speaker
Those were touched by the hands of the craftsmen.
00:15:36
Speaker
Right.
00:15:36
Speaker
A John Townsend table is a John Townsend table.
00:15:40
Speaker
Exactly.
00:15:41
Speaker
And again, that the thing that always happens.
00:15:43
Speaker
I think that is obvious to us as a field because we know it, but usually blows people's minds when you really are able to articulate it to them, is that these were handmade pieces.
00:15:54
Speaker
You look at the perfection of a great Bombay and you see the curves on it.
00:16:00
Speaker
And if you don't really understand that that's by hand, it doesn't seem like it's magic.
00:16:06
Speaker
It can feel like something that a machine just kind of plugged out.
00:16:08
Speaker
But when you get that this was made by a human being, and those curves and the drawers are perfectly placed into them, it takes on a whole new quality.
00:16:18
Speaker
I think there's a little bit of magic there.
00:16:20
Speaker
Well, we've been inured to that, right?
00:16:22
Speaker
Because now those curves, we see those kinds of curves in all kinds of mass-produced furniture.
00:16:27
Speaker
Of course, it used to be the only way to get that curve was to make it by hand.
00:16:33
Speaker
And that's why these objects were valuable when they were produced.
00:16:35
Speaker
Exactly.
00:16:36
Speaker
Not because they were old.
00:16:37
Speaker
They were new, as you said at the start of our conversation.
00:16:42
Speaker
I just had this experience today.
00:16:44
Speaker
I was looking at an auction catalog, and I saw a set of four silver candlesticks.
00:16:50
Speaker
And it's a mid 18th century form, but they were actually produced by Crichton in the early 20th century.
00:16:58
Speaker
And I paused for a minute when I saw this.
00:17:01
Speaker
I thought, you know, when those were first produced and sold by Crichton, they were sold to someone who for whom it would have been a real novelty to see a mass produced object.
00:17:15
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:17:16
Speaker
And Crichton had very skilled craftsmen, of course, but it was a different kind of production and a different scale.
00:17:24
Speaker
But for the first time, perhaps, a young family might have been able to buy a set of candlesticks of that form.
00:17:32
Speaker
And, okay, they're not as valuable as the 18th century ones.
00:17:37
Speaker
But they look just as nice or close to it.
00:17:40
Speaker
And prior to that, prior to Crichton's Enterprise, you just couldn't have had candlesticks that looked like that.
00:17:50
Speaker
There are these moments where, again, whether it's part of the Industrial Revolution or whether it's...
00:17:58
Speaker
a derivative of Moore's law where production kind of takes on a new level and it evolves seeing an example of that.
00:18:05
Speaker
Um, whether we're starting to see it with artificial intelligence art right now, um, as an example, or whether it's, uh, an original Ford, which, you know, was kind of the, the height example of a car that was affordable and beautifully produced, or whether it's Prouvet who was originally that the whole mentality behind Prouvet's work was affordable work that was beautiful and good design for everyone.
00:18:28
Speaker
But now, of course, it's this rare, beautiful object.
00:18:32
Speaker
And what it represents in its simplicity is exceptionalism.
00:18:36
Speaker
So it definitely is fascinating to think about how manufacturing has evolved in the height of the examples.
00:18:45
Speaker
3D printing will be pretty interesting to see.
00:18:48
Speaker
Right.
00:18:48
Speaker
How that starts shaping.
00:18:49
Speaker
And if we see real artisans and artists from that, they're great examples already.
00:18:54
Speaker
I mean, Joris Larman has been doing really interesting work with 3D printing too.
00:18:59
Speaker
But delineating how you define who is the height, exceptional representation of this field when it is mass and
Noah's Artistic Journey and Family Influence
00:19:09
Speaker
scale.
00:19:09
Speaker
It's pretty interesting.
00:19:11
Speaker
So that's not an area I'm familiar with, but in a 3D printing artist, is that someone who creates a design in a CAD program and then sends it to you and you print it out?
00:19:22
Speaker
Precisely, yeah.
00:19:23
Speaker
I think that's definitely an oversimplification of...
00:19:27
Speaker
Of a really exceptional 3D designer, I'd say.
00:19:32
Speaker
But at its base level, absolutely.
00:19:33
Speaker
Yeah, there are a number of programs where you can design these works and you can choose the coloring and formatting.
00:19:40
Speaker
And then, yeah, you can produce it.
00:19:42
Speaker
So let's step back because I want to know a little bit about the transition that you've gone through.
00:19:47
Speaker
Well, I don't know if transition is the right word for it, but you grew up in a family with a keen interest in old American decorative arts.
00:19:58
Speaker
You now collect other things.
00:20:00
Speaker
You collect modern and contemporary works.
00:20:03
Speaker
What is it that you needed to learn as you moved into the world of modern and contemporary art?
00:20:10
Speaker
I think more than anything, the one thing I needed to learn, which has stayed true from the beginning, was something my father taught me really, and probably my mom too, is their example, I guess, of this, which is no matter what you're buying, make sure you like it.
00:20:27
Speaker
Easier said than done.
00:20:30
Speaker
100%.
00:20:30
Speaker
We had what I would call probably the ugliest painting I've ever seen in my entire life growing up in our apartment in New York City when I was a little kid.
00:20:39
Speaker
and the story behind it is that uh you know my mom and dad were keyed in that this was an up-and-coming artist that he was really he was a great investment um and of course the artist didn't go anywhere and we were stuck with this horrible memory of a bad investment on our wall that we were too stubborn to take down uh so living with that god-awful piece uh
00:21:04
Speaker
Sorry, mom and dad.
00:21:06
Speaker
Was a great example of no matter what, what comes first is make sure that you really love this piece, that you want to live with it, that it has a livability that goes with your life.
00:21:15
Speaker
And that if it's not worth anything to anybody else, it's still worth
Diverse Collecting Interests
00:21:18
Speaker
something to you.
00:21:18
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:21:19
Speaker
And I think that...
00:21:20
Speaker
While I certainly live with modern and contemporary, I live with early American.
00:21:26
Speaker
I have two 19th century glass portraits on my wall, which are right below some Geneve Figgis paintings.
00:21:32
Speaker
Geneve Figgis is a contemporary artist that I love.
00:21:35
Speaker
I have some outsider art.
00:21:36
Speaker
I've got a Thornton Dial right when you walked in.
00:21:40
Speaker
In a lot of that, I mean, I didn't know anything about Thornton Dial until I saw that work.
00:21:45
Speaker
And then I was fortunate to have some people give me some books and say, if you're interested in this field, you should really read up on folk art, outsider art, and art brute.
00:21:54
Speaker
And before I acquired any Thornton Dial, I made sure that I read up and I understood the field better so that I wasn't just only reacting on instinct, so that I understood where this was coming from, the field at large.
00:22:08
Speaker
So I try to do that.
00:22:11
Speaker
If something is interesting to me visually, that's usually a step one.
00:22:15
Speaker
Step two is then learning.
00:22:17
Speaker
And then step three, based on the learning, is potentially acquiring or learning more.
00:22:22
Speaker
Right, right.
00:22:24
Speaker
What do you think about if you read old books on collecting, old guides to collecting across different fields of antiques, what you'll often see by way of advice is people saying, well, the first thing you should do is decide what your area is.
00:22:41
Speaker
You should decide, you know, do you want antique maps of Italy?
00:22:45
Speaker
Right.
00:22:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:46
Speaker
From the 17th century.
00:22:48
Speaker
Or do you want 19th century Austrian watercolors?
00:22:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:57
Speaker
And so the idea is, or do you want American coins?
00:23:02
Speaker
Whatever the area is, the idea is define your area and then try to get the best things that you can.
00:23:09
Speaker
But you're setting a larger stage for yourself.
00:23:13
Speaker
I hope so.
00:23:15
Speaker
I think that we're, I can't speak at large because I think certain collectors collect certain ways with different categories, learning about different fields.
00:23:25
Speaker
speaks to my interests, it speaks to how I want to live.
00:23:30
Speaker
God, I would love to have the greatest representation of Austrian watercolors, but I don't see why I can't have that and dip my toes in contemporary art as well.
00:23:39
Speaker
And I think it's reflective of how people live today.
00:23:42
Speaker
And I think it should be encouraged.
00:23:43
Speaker
I think it's important also for antiques, for early American as well, to show the diversity and the ability to live in a modern contemporary setting with these pieces too.
00:23:55
Speaker
Because so often, to your point, you see period settings or you see these unbelievably ornate, beautiful rooms, but they can feel dated.
00:24:03
Speaker
They sometimes don't feel contemporary.
00:24:05
Speaker
And I don't know that it's the best example to younger people that this is still a vibrant field.
The Social Enjoyment of Art
00:24:11
Speaker
Right.
00:24:11
Speaker
It feels like you have to consign yourself to living in a museum.
00:24:14
Speaker
Precisely.
00:24:15
Speaker
So tell me about this, because different people, as we've touched on, collect in different ways, but they also enjoy their collections in different ways.
00:24:29
Speaker
Some people try to create the most consistent and period appropriate and wonderfully beautiful
00:24:36
Speaker
rooms that they can.
00:24:38
Speaker
And then they throw a party and they invite everybody over to admire it and enjoy the setting together.
00:24:45
Speaker
And that can be a wonderfully exciting thing to do.
00:24:49
Speaker
Other people collect a few things and put them in a china hutch and take them out once a year to look at them.
00:24:57
Speaker
um how do you enjoy the things that that you've collected do you enjoy them by yourself or socially or do you enjoy them academically i think a mix and match i think um right or wrong uh just because my brother and i have become um we've gone deeper in the design field and learned more about it what's been really interesting to me is that my friends ask me for recommendations now um
00:25:25
Speaker
It comes from a place of being uninformed, I think, in some cases, that they want to learn about it, but they don't know the access points yet.
00:25:33
Speaker
They don't know where to begin collecting to.
00:25:35
Speaker
So I would say if I were to say that my collecting habits are social, it would be in hopefully trying to open up different fields for friends and colleagues and younger people as well.
00:25:47
Speaker
I certainly like having people over, but I don't do the kind of parade thing where I go, oh, and if you look at this piece right here, it's a wonderful photograph.
00:25:56
Speaker
If people ask me questions about certain pieces, I'll definitely tell them.
00:26:01
Speaker
But I like living with these pieces.
00:26:03
Speaker
I think that was the example, again, that our grandfather set for Eric and I, too, which is he lived with all of his pieces.
00:26:11
Speaker
He sat in the John Brown chair every single Thanksgiving.
00:26:14
Speaker
He wasn't precious about his items.
00:26:17
Speaker
He recognized the utilitarian quality of them as well.
00:26:20
Speaker
Right.
00:26:22
Speaker
You know, again, going back to the table, we're sitting at this right now.
00:26:25
Speaker
We were having drinks on this table right now.
00:26:27
Speaker
I just dropped your coaster on the floor.
00:26:29
Speaker
That's totally fine.
00:26:30
Speaker
We picked it up and, you know, scuffed it off.
00:26:32
Speaker
It's no big deal.
00:26:35
Speaker
I think you should derive pleasure from the things you live with, but you shouldn't you shouldn't be tiptoeing around it.
00:26:40
Speaker
This is this is your life.
00:26:41
Speaker
This is your home.
Family Art Tastes and Personal Style
00:26:43
Speaker
I like sitting in in these chairs and at this table.
00:26:47
Speaker
Do your tastes differ from that of the rest of your family?
00:26:50
Speaker
Yeah, I'd say so.
00:26:53
Speaker
My brother and I are constantly battling over who has the better taste.
00:26:57
Speaker
Eric has the better taste, there's no question.
00:26:59
Speaker
You just concede that, right?
00:27:01
Speaker
Yeah, I concede it.
00:27:02
Speaker
I've conceded it, I think, from an early age.
00:27:05
Speaker
He's gotten his thet's eye, and he always has.
00:27:09
Speaker
He has a very refined taste, and he understands how things go together.
00:27:13
Speaker
Beautifully.
00:27:14
Speaker
I mean, like he can... Typical older brother.
00:27:17
Speaker
Typical older brother.
00:27:18
Speaker
Terrible.
00:27:19
Speaker
He can, whether he recognizes or not, it's almost like a merchandiser's approach where things that he collects, he's able to put them together in a way that it almost looks like it's editorialized.
00:27:31
Speaker
um i'm a little more mishmash uh a little more uh willy-nilly um again going back to what i said before i like big colors um and sometimes people disagree they'll think that it's ugly or it's weird or but i don't really you just proudly called it ugly a
00:27:53
Speaker
Yeah, to some people, not to me.
00:27:56
Speaker
To me, I love it.
00:27:59
Speaker
I like living with color.
00:28:00
Speaker
It's fun for me.
00:28:02
Speaker
It certainly, again, and I think that adds to the quality, too, of not being scared to sit and enjoy these things, too.
00:28:11
Speaker
I think if everything was white and original Florence Knoll, who I love, by the way, but if it was all white and...
00:28:20
Speaker
I would probably be tiptoeing around my
Tour of Noah's Apartment: A Personal Collection
00:28:23
Speaker
apartment.
00:28:23
Speaker
The fact that everything is colorful, I can be a little more dangerous with it, which is fun.
00:28:35
Speaker
Noah was kind enough to take me on a tour of his collection, which is to say his apartment.
00:28:40
Speaker
We'll jump into that momentarily, but first let's hear from our sponsor.
00:28:47
Speaker
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00:28:54
Speaker
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00:28:58
Speaker
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00:29:01
Speaker
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00:29:06
Speaker
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00:29:13
Speaker
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00:29:17
Speaker
Visit Freeman's at freemansauction.com to learn more.
00:29:22
Speaker
I always like to take just a minute to say thank you for listening to Curious Objects.
00:29:26
Speaker
I especially want to thank those of you who have written to me with your feedback, which you can do over email at podcast at themagazineantiques.com.
00:29:33
Speaker
I love hearing from you, and I also love reading the reviews you leave on iTunes.
00:29:37
Speaker
Every rating and review helps spread the word, and it's kind of you to take a minute to do that, so thank you very much.
00:29:43
Speaker
And now let's get back to Noah Wunsch.
00:29:51
Speaker
Um, well, it's your apartment.
00:29:53
Speaker
Um, where do you want to start?
00:29:55
Speaker
Um, where should we start, Indy?
00:29:57
Speaker
Well, we should start with Indiana Jones.
00:29:59
Speaker
There we go.
00:29:59
Speaker
Well, I've collected a dog.
00:30:01
Speaker
Ah, Indiana Jones.
00:30:02
Speaker
He's a little bit of a mutt.
00:30:04
Speaker
Looking around, it was hard to say which pieces were functional and which were decorative.
00:30:08
Speaker
In fact, plenty of Noah's objects are both at the same time.
00:30:12
Speaker
We stopped to look at a small, decorated copper square.
00:30:15
Speaker
Over here, we've got an ancient, seething, gulp clip.
00:30:21
Speaker
When I moved into this apartment, and this is from 60 BC, which is always fun.
00:30:27
Speaker
It's a Visigothic buckle, pardon me.
00:30:30
Speaker
So when they took a break from sacking Rome, they made built buckles.
00:30:35
Speaker
This apartment kind of used to be a storage facility in many ways for my grandpa just for all the weird random things he collected.
00:30:41
Speaker
So every now and then I'll just kind of open a closet and feel around and find a Visigothic belt buckle.
Organizing a Legacy: From Chaos to Display
00:30:47
Speaker
That's amazing.
00:30:48
Speaker
But when I first moved in, he had ancient glass all over the apartment.
00:30:53
Speaker
I mean, like strewn about the floor, which was great.
00:30:55
Speaker
I mean, works from 500 BC.
00:30:59
Speaker
Wow.
00:31:00
Speaker
Which they should not have been.
00:31:02
Speaker
So part of the fun part of moving in here, too, was starting to organize his collection a little bit, too, and make sure that they weren't on the floor.
00:31:09
Speaker
But learning as the process went along, too.
00:31:11
Speaker
It's like walking through the storeroom of a museum.
00:31:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:14
Speaker
The first piece that had caught my eye when I first walked into Noah's apartment was a floor lamp with a beautiful glass shade in a hatched azure pattern.
00:31:21
Speaker
It's on a tall patinated stand with three cabriol legs and a just-so Art Nouveau look.
00:31:27
Speaker
So this is a Tiffany Studio lamp.
00:31:29
Speaker
And this is probably one of my favorite pieces, period, in the world ever.
00:31:36
Speaker
This is my grandma's.
00:31:39
Speaker
And she loved it.
00:31:40
Speaker
She brought it kind of... She really only lived in two places, but she made sure that this was at her couch side always.
00:31:47
Speaker
This was kind of her reading lamp.
00:31:49
Speaker
And it's got this beautiful little spider detail on the lampshade that's...
00:31:55
Speaker
You don't really notice it from across the room.
00:31:57
Speaker
If I step back a few feet, I barely see it.
00:32:00
Speaker
I think it took me years to notice it.
00:32:03
Speaker
And I remember the day I did, my mind just kind of exploded because it was just this little hidden secret.
00:32:08
Speaker
I think, in fact, I had the reaction that I was probably supposed to have, which is I thought there was a gigantic spider underneath the shade.
00:32:14
Speaker
It's a little creepy.
00:32:15
Speaker
Yeah, but there's something so playful about it that I think also spoke to kind of who my grandma was.
00:32:20
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:32:22
Speaker
So it's a special piece for me, and I love it.
00:32:25
Speaker
Do you think she bought it because she felt it reflected who she was?
00:32:28
Speaker
I think she liked Tiffany.
00:32:29
Speaker
But I think she had a sense of humor, so I definitely think there was an aspect of that spider, I think, that she knew would be fun.
00:32:35
Speaker
It's a whimsical piece, not just the spider.
00:32:37
Speaker
The stand is... The legs.
00:32:39
Speaker
Yeah, there's a sort of Dr. Seuss quality to it.
00:32:42
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:32:43
Speaker
It kind of jumps off the ground like a spider.
Whimsical and Nostalgic Pieces
00:32:46
Speaker
I love it.
00:32:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:48
Speaker
over here.
00:32:50
Speaker
I was trying to do some more research on this sword.
00:32:52
Speaker
I have to tell you, this is a mystery to all of us.
00:32:55
Speaker
We don't know the background or anything.
00:32:57
Speaker
I like mysteries.
00:32:57
Speaker
But the wonderful thing about this sword, I remember growing up, my brother and I would go to visit our grandparents, and our grandpa would hand us, I kid you not, this sword and another sword to give me and my brother the opportunity to have a literal sword fight.
00:33:14
Speaker
Okay, and for the sake of listeners, I mean, this is a
00:33:17
Speaker
This is a sword.
00:33:18
Speaker
Yeah, it's from 1790.
00:33:19
Speaker
It doesn't have the cork tip on it that it had when my brother and I were fighting.
00:33:25
Speaker
But again, just to keep in mind, it was just a cork on the tip of the blade.
00:33:30
Speaker
This could have done serious damage.
00:33:33
Speaker
Wow.
00:33:33
Speaker
Did it?
00:33:34
Speaker
No, shockingly no.
00:33:36
Speaker
I think it was probably too heavy for my tiny little arms to swing around.
00:33:41
Speaker
But yeah, this is just a piece I love.
00:33:43
Speaker
I mean, that was a literal fantasy of mine when I was that age.
00:33:48
Speaker
I hate to run this in.
00:33:49
Speaker
I got to live your fantasy.
00:33:50
Speaker
I know, I know.
00:33:51
Speaker
No one ever gave me a sword.
00:33:52
Speaker
Well, that was probably for the best.
00:33:54
Speaker
Probably, yeah.
00:33:55
Speaker
And then these glass-blown canes, which are underneath it.
00:33:58
Speaker
Next, we looked at a pair of long glass tubes decorated with colorful spirals and with a bulb at one end.
00:34:04
Speaker
I don't know who the maker is on these, but again, these were ones that I would always see growing up and I always thought they were priceless.
00:34:12
Speaker
I don't know, there's a level of fantasy to them that I think probably speaks to also why I collect such weird things too.
00:34:19
Speaker
That there's a little bit of magic in things.
00:34:21
Speaker
Well, it's nice to have a personal nostalgia associated with it.
00:34:25
Speaker
This one over here too, it just looks and feels a bit like a staff.
00:34:31
Speaker
Yeah, sure.
00:34:32
Speaker
I could see Gandalf using that.
00:34:33
Speaker
Yeah, here.
00:34:36
Speaker
We're not dainty with our things.
00:34:37
Speaker
Enjoy.
00:34:37
Speaker
Fabulous.
00:34:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:41
Speaker
That's lovely.
00:34:43
Speaker
You've just finished telling me about how you don't invite people over in lecture.
00:34:46
Speaker
I know.
00:34:48
Speaker
You asked.
00:34:49
Speaker
That's what I came here for.
00:34:53
Speaker
These two paintings, which are these glass portraits from the 19th century.
00:34:58
Speaker
We had a look at two small images hanging on Noah's wall, both reverse paintings on glass, which is an old technique where paint is applied to the back of a plate of glass, then viewed from the front.
00:35:08
Speaker
The effect is saturated colors with high contrast, and in this case, portraits of a very distinguished looking man and woman.
00:35:15
Speaker
Honestly, probably worthless.
00:35:17
Speaker
I mean, I bought them.
00:35:18
Speaker
I think these might have actually been my first acquisition at auction.
00:35:22
Speaker
I think I was probably 23 or something.
00:35:24
Speaker
And I think, honestly, the estimate was $300 to $500 for a pair of them.
00:35:29
Speaker
And the auctioneer was wonderful to humor me in that he took my telephone bid for a $300 to $500 piece.
00:35:34
Speaker
In my mind, I just remember...
00:35:38
Speaker
Yeah, the bid probably raised to $350.
00:35:41
Speaker
On the other end of the line, I just heard, so do you want to bid $400?
00:35:44
Speaker
And I was like, oh, I don't know.
00:35:47
Speaker
It's tough.
00:35:49
Speaker
And I was like, yeah, okay, bid.
00:35:51
Speaker
And we won it.
00:35:51
Speaker
And I just remember celebrating to myself and the auctioneer being like, okay, bye.
00:35:55
Speaker
I have to go now.
00:35:55
Speaker
They're going to sell something worth real money.
00:35:58
Speaker
Yeah, real money.
00:36:00
Speaker
Who's the fellow in the Fed?
00:36:02
Speaker
That's my grandfather.
00:36:04
Speaker
So that was him on his 75th birthday wearing an ascot.
00:36:07
Speaker
The man can pull an ascot off.
00:36:09
Speaker
Wow, it looks very natural.
00:36:13
Speaker
And then this little medicine cabinet.
00:36:16
Speaker
I like actually what's inside of it more than the medicine cabinet itself.
00:36:19
Speaker
Oh, what's inside it?
00:36:20
Speaker
Just a bunch of playing cards.
00:36:22
Speaker
And we used to... The company that my family started way back when called Silent Hoist, which was, again, an industrial engineer company, created these cards every holiday for people who worked at the company.
00:36:39
Speaker
Is it worth less when it's not in its original packaging?
00:36:41
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:43
Speaker
I'm being a bad collector right now.
00:36:45
Speaker
Oh, no.
00:36:47
Speaker
But I love the cards.
00:36:50
Speaker
There we are.
00:36:52
Speaker
I'm a big fan of games, so... But these are just so smooth and I love the insignia.
00:36:59
Speaker
Just some weird fun things that... I think we're proud of our family heritage.
00:37:08
Speaker
So it's nice to have this kind of memorabilia almost.
00:37:11
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:37:17
Speaker
The drawers are sticky.
00:37:19
Speaker
Yeah.
Appreciation for Vintage and Iconic Works
00:37:21
Speaker
What about the, well, I don't want to jump ahead, but I'm curious about the magazines.
00:37:25
Speaker
Yeah, sure.
00:37:37
Speaker
was writing for them.
00:37:40
Speaker
I was the editor of a few and then I transitioned onto the business development side.
00:37:44
Speaker
But I had a real love for print magazines, especially older magazines and kind of the time capsule they represented too.
00:37:53
Speaker
Old interview magazines I think are just some of the greatest works ever.
00:37:58
Speaker
And you don't see magazine covers like that anymore.
00:38:03
Speaker
Bosworth one.
00:38:04
Speaker
And it's certainly a celebrity profile photo, but the artistic quality, it's beautiful.
00:38:10
Speaker
It's a work of art all its own.
00:38:12
Speaker
I had to pull out Navicrombie & Fitch Quarterly Back to See.
00:38:16
Speaker
Because for anyone who grew up during the 90s, the time capsule that that represents is just above and above.
00:38:24
Speaker
That is a blast from the past.
00:38:25
Speaker
It's crazy.
00:38:26
Speaker
When you say...
00:38:28
Speaker
The nostalgic quality, but also the ability to transport yourself suddenly by going through the pages, it's eerie.
00:38:35
Speaker
It's eerie and it's amazing.
00:38:38
Speaker
And then there are these magazines from the 80s called Wet Magazine that was about bath culture.
00:38:44
Speaker
I kid you not.
00:38:45
Speaker
It was a magazine about baths.
00:38:48
Speaker
Like high-end luxury baths.
00:38:51
Speaker
And the whole mentality behind it, it was pretty much a punk magazine.
00:38:56
Speaker
It was this guy out of the West Coast who wanted to start a magazine.
00:39:00
Speaker
And he's like, everything else has been done.
00:39:02
Speaker
So I'll start a magazine called Wet Magazine about bath culture.
00:39:08
Speaker
So I have magazines probably ranging back from the 1950s through today.
00:39:13
Speaker
And that's transitioned into a love for books now, too.
00:39:16
Speaker
A familiar book cover caught my eye.
00:39:18
Speaker
It was Holden Caulfield in his trademark red hunting cap.
00:39:21
Speaker
But here he is wearing it backwards and has a rather dandy scarf around his neck.
00:39:26
Speaker
What's the Catcher in the Rye edition?
00:39:28
Speaker
So the Catcher in the Rye, this is an interesting one.
00:39:30
Speaker
I was surprised because I got this for a whisper at Mass Books.
00:39:35
Speaker
There were very few editions of the Catcher in the Rye that actually had an image of Holton Caulfield on the front cover.
00:39:42
Speaker
J.D.
00:39:42
Speaker
Salinger was adamant that no one should see or understand what Holden looked like.
00:39:47
Speaker
Oh, right.
00:39:48
Speaker
So this is heresy, actually.
00:39:50
Speaker
Exactly.
00:39:51
Speaker
There are a few releases of magazines that actually did feature him with his red hunting cap on the cover, and this was one of them, and I was lucky that I could just kind of snag it through a whisper, but it was just one of those weird little things I spotted and immediately called out to me.
00:40:07
Speaker
I love this.
00:40:08
Speaker
This unusual book may shock you, will make you laugh, and may break your heart, but you will never forget it.
00:40:15
Speaker
And then over here, though, I've got another edition from American Book Club from the 1960s.
00:40:22
Speaker
That's another harder one to find with The Catcher in the Rye.
00:40:27
Speaker
Obviously I love the Catcher on the Ride, there's no surprise there I'd say.
00:40:32
Speaker
But finding these little, there's that detail... Why should that be obvious?
00:40:36
Speaker
I mean, I can imagine.
00:40:37
Speaker
I think everyone loves the Catcher on the Ride for the most part.
00:40:39
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:40:41
Speaker
You're not saying you identify with Holder.
00:40:43
Speaker
No, of course not.
00:40:45
Speaker
There's a special place in my heart, but the little details too, just kind of the illustrated qualities, how the 16, that number kind of swoops to the right too.
00:40:55
Speaker
That's not in the actual edition.
00:40:57
Speaker
Just having these special qualities of them.
00:40:59
Speaker
And I also love the space.
00:41:02
Speaker
Because everyone is familiar, obviously, with the usual printing of The Catcher and the Ryan.
00:41:07
Speaker
It's kind of like almost a little chapbook.
00:41:09
Speaker
And it feels very condensed.
00:41:10
Speaker
So to have it almost kind of luxuriate in this much white space and paper, it's almost as if the story's expanding too.
00:41:18
Speaker
Which I really love.
00:41:20
Speaker
It certainly feels like a serious volume.
00:41:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:23
Speaker
It's not.
00:41:24
Speaker
Well, let's see.
00:41:29
Speaker
The only thing I've...
00:41:34
Speaker
that's the example of actually living with a period piece too.
00:41:37
Speaker
And then of course the case frame above it, which is 18th century, and the portraits as well.
Embracing a Dynamic Lifestyle with Antiques
00:41:46
Speaker
Again, I
00:41:48
Speaker
Contemporary living with period is really interesting to me.
00:41:54
Speaker
There's something about this case piece that just fits in, I think really anywhere.
00:41:59
Speaker
I think you could live on it somewhere.
00:42:00
Speaker
You could live in a period room and not feel out of place.
00:42:02
Speaker
You could live in a contemporary setting and not be out of place.
00:42:07
Speaker
The carved lions on the side of it.
00:42:10
Speaker
It's a really beautiful piece of craftsmanship.
00:42:14
Speaker
And then having... Bold.
00:42:17
Speaker
Yes, definitely bold.
00:42:18
Speaker
And so is the gigantic frame above it.
00:42:20
Speaker
Indeed, which I will note is empty.
00:42:22
Speaker
Yes, I like the empty space.
00:42:24
Speaker
Okay.
00:42:25
Speaker
Which might be surprising considering how full this space actually is and packed the walls are.
00:42:31
Speaker
And then over here, this is probably one of my favorite pieces too, which is a Robert Mapplethorpe photograph I got from this great gallery on the west coast called Moran Moran.
00:42:44
Speaker
And they represent the Mapplethorpe estate.
00:42:46
Speaker
And this is this one called the Rock Cats.
00:42:49
Speaker
That was some gang members, one gang member in particular, obviously for this photo, that Mapplethorpe photographed.
00:42:58
Speaker
And I just love the swoop of his hair.
00:43:00
Speaker
I mean, it's just there is such an essence of cool about it.
00:43:03
Speaker
It is so cool and classic Mapplethorpe.
00:43:05
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:43:07
Speaker
All right.
00:43:07
Speaker
Well, we've done a pretty good tour.
00:43:09
Speaker
What are the what's the story with these chairs?
00:43:11
Speaker
We are looking at a pair of almost cartoon like chairs that look like someone's very colorful laundry stuffed into a plastic frame.
00:43:19
Speaker
So these are a designer named Katie Stout, who's represented by R& Company and Nina Johnson Gallery.
00:43:28
Speaker
It's funny, she works, she graduated from RISD alongside another great designer named Misha Khan, who's represented by Friedman Benda.
00:43:39
Speaker
And I think Misha, I know actually, Misha had these chairs in his apartment.
00:43:44
Speaker
for a bit and there was an editorial cover of his apartment and I remember reaching out to Misha and saying Misha I love your chairs like I need can I can I buy your chairs he's like I didn't design those those are Katie so I originally reached I immediately reached out to Katie and asked if if they were available so I bought Misha's chairs designed by Katie but again I just think they're so much fun and they're actually extremely comfortable are they really they're they're please again once again I've got to give this a try yeah
00:44:20
Speaker
Oh, you're right.
00:44:20
Speaker
It's like sitting in a stuffed animal.
00:44:22
Speaker
I mean, it's wonderful.
00:44:24
Speaker
Yeah, but you wouldn't necessarily think to look at them, but... Yeah, I would take this over a corner chair anyway.
00:44:31
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:44:32
Speaker
Very cozy.
00:44:33
Speaker
The lazy boy of its time.
00:44:34
Speaker
That's right.
00:44:37
Speaker
The lazy boy of our time.
00:44:39
Speaker
This whole living with antiques thing seems like a little bit of fun, doesn't it?
Conclusion and Invitation for Engagement
00:44:44
Speaker
I hope you all enjoyed it.
00:44:55
Speaker
That wraps up our tour of Noah Wunch's World of Wonders.
00:44:58
Speaker
Thanks so much to Noah for talking with me and sharing your home.
00:45:01
Speaker
Keep in mind, you can see pictures at themagazineantiques.com or on my Instagram at Objective Interest.
00:45:07
Speaker
And send me your thoughts and comments at podcast at themagazineantiques.com.
00:45:11
Speaker
Catch us again next month.
00:45:13
Speaker
Today's episode was edited and produced by Sammy Delati.
00:45:16
Speaker
Our music is by Trap Rabbit.
00:45:18
Speaker
And I'm Ben Miller.