Transcript
Speaker: The one thing I needed to learn, which has stayed true from the beginning, was no matter what, what comes first is make sure that you really love this piece, that you want to live with it, that it has a livability that goes with your life.
Speaker: And that if it's not worth anything to anybody else, it's still worth something to you.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Hello and welcome back to Curious Objects, brought to you by the magazine Antiques.
Speaker: I'm Ben Miller.
Speaker: If you're a long-time listener, you've heard me talk with dealers and curators, scholars and auctioneers, craftsmen and connoisseurs.
Speaker: But one group we haven't spent much time with is the people who make this whole industry work, collectors.
Speaker: These are the people who buy from dealers and from auctions, who donate to museums, who read books and articles, some of them even listen to podcasts.
Speaker: So, for today's episode, I was thrilled to be joined by Noah Wunsch.
Speaker: Noah and his brother Eric together run the Decorative Arts Foundation established by their grandfather, legendary collector Eric Martin Wunsch.
Speaker: Noah also has a job at Sotheby's, but aside from all that, he is an enthusiast for art, decorative arts, and what people nowadays like to call design.
Speaker: I sat down with Noah in his Manhattan apartment, which used to be a storeroom for the family collection.
Speaker: It's filled with all manner of curious objects, from ancient to modern and everything in between.
Speaker: If you're like me and are curious about what makes collectors tick, and how they think about weather and what to buy, I think you'll enjoy this episode.
Speaker: And if you'd like to see pictures of all these objects, go to themagazineantiques.com slash podcast, or visit my Instagram at Objective Interest.
Speaker: Before we jump in, here's a quick word from our sponsor.
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Speaker: Um, okay.
Speaker: I want to start off by saying thank you Noah Wunch very much for being on the podcast.
Speaker: It's my pleasure.
Speaker: And I want to know a little bit about the history of this foundation, um, of which you are a third generation member, if I'm counting right.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So, so what is the Wunch Foundation and how did it get its start?
Speaker: So the Wunch Americana Foundation is a nonprofit that's focused on making sure that early American decorative arts and Americana as a field continues to progress.
Speaker: And that can mean any number of things.
Speaker: And we hope that it does, of course.
Speaker: I think the way that my brother and I
Speaker: are certainly inspired is by connecting a newer, younger generation to the field as well.
Speaker: Finding narrative through lines, finding experiences that can help educate them and help them understand that anything dated, anything that was an antique or considered to be, at one point was the height of contemporary.
Speaker: Everything has its period of modernism.
Speaker: And finding narratively the through lines, particularly through contemporary design, that connects those dots.
Speaker: And how has the mission of the foundation changed over time?
Speaker: Or has it been very consistent?
Speaker: You know, it's a funny thing.
Speaker: I didn't get to talk too much about it with my grandfather when he was alive, which is unfortunate.
Speaker: And he got the ball rolling.
Speaker: He started, yes.
Speaker: Eric Martin Wunsch, for which we give an annual award in his honor, was the one who started it.
Speaker: And he was an academic collector.
Speaker: And I mean that... How long ago was that?
Speaker: uh he started collecting i believe he started the foundation this is this is the lore of the foundation um that he started the foundation actually even before he started acquiring pieces it was as if he had the foresight that that this was coming this was a progression in his life um and then then obviously so he wasn't born a collector he became a collector that's an interesting question that
Speaker: I think he must have been born a collector just with the fastidiousness he approached the field with.
Speaker: He was certainly, I'm fortunate and I hope I got some of his genes, he was brilliant.
Speaker: He went to MIT, he was a mechanical engineer, just like my great grandfather Joseph Wunsch.
Speaker: He was a brilliant man and he dedicated himself to the field in that his approach was making sure he knew everything about it.
Speaker: Every single nook and cranny.
Speaker: I think that's what I've gained the most understanding about from talking to people in the field who knew him so much that he could definitely be difficult.
Speaker: But his difficulty usually derived from his knowledge.
Speaker: There's one story about how he was kind of lusting after this piece for years.
Speaker: He was trying to get a collector to pass it over to him, whether by a trade or acquisition.
Speaker: And then on the final day, it was ready.
Speaker: The trade, the collection was about to happen.
Speaker: And my grandfather, before saying, OK, let's move forward, said, I want to inspect the piece again.
Speaker: And he inspected it and he found something with it that he didn't realize or recognize before.
Speaker: In those years of dedication, he was able to wipe away in one fell swoop because he realized that it wasn't the perfect example that he was looking for.
Speaker: And that's something I can't relate to.
Speaker: If I'm tracking something for years and I find on the last day there's discrepancy, I'll say, nah, you know.
Speaker: Yeah, we'll deal with that later.
Speaker: Exactly, yeah.
Speaker: And I really respect that.
Speaker: I think that, again, it speaks to his dedication.
Speaker: It's a spirit of perfectionism.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so today, the foundation has pieces that are on exhibit at museums around the country.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: What does the medium to long-term future of the foundation look like?
Speaker: What do you want it to be doing in 10 or 20 years from now?
Speaker: I think we want to continue on the path we're going right now.
Speaker: Eric and I have been working on a commission series with contemporary designers where we work with them and we discuss our collection with them.
Speaker: And usually in a collaborative process, we decide on one piece for them to work with in the foundation.
Speaker: And we ask them to create what is not a reinterpretation, but probably something that's inspired by the piece.
Speaker: And we found that, again, narratively, that's a really nice through line and a nice way of telling a story of how these pieces work in temporary and why they're important.
Speaker: A great example, again, of working with an institution was with the Wadsworth Athenaeum, where Eric and I put together, with Brandy Culp, a fantastic panel.
Speaker: of people in contemporary design and decorative arts talking about the through lines between the two.
Speaker: And this was also to honor a loan of a piece that we had commissioned by David Wiseman, this beautiful mirror that goes with a Japanese desk, a knee hole that we have as well.
Speaker: And the Wadsworth has those two pieces on view right now in a room.
Speaker: And it's beautiful.
Speaker: They're amazing together and they complement each other so well.
Speaker: We worked with...
Speaker: some really brilliant contemporary designers to create what we hope will be masterpieces and continue to thrive as long as the pieces in our collections have.
Speaker: We want to continue to work with institutions and make sure that we loan those, though, and get them on view.
Speaker: We did a great event with the Metropolitan Museum of Art a few years back.
Speaker: I've heard of them.
Speaker: Small institution.
Speaker: They're fantastic.
Speaker: And we do love collaborating with them, too.
Speaker: We brought a small, not actually a small group.
Speaker: We brought about 200 people, mostly under the age of 30, to the Americana Wing to hear Elise England speak about pieces in the wing and, of course, focus on the John Brown chair, which is kind of the greatest piece in our collection, I would say.
Speaker: Can you give me a 30-second overview of this chair?
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: So the John Brown chair, it's a corner chair, and it's kind of the perfect representation of what a corner chair should be like in form.
Speaker: And I think one of the greatest things that I learned from Elise, actually, on that little tour, was that the corner chair was essentially the lazy boy of its time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: That ergonomically, and you can see this in its form, that it's really a chair that you don't, I can't say you sink into because it is still a wooden chair, but you can see in the curves of it how the rectilinear quality of it, it's something that you certainly ease into after dinner.
Speaker: It's kind of, you know, after you have a big meal, you just kind of rest into the corner chair.
Speaker: And I love that.
Speaker: It's not one of the side chairs that forces you to have good posture.
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: But it was amazing how that one little idea completely can change your perspective on a piece of furniture.
Speaker: The idea of an early American piece as a quote-unquote lazy boy.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: Yeah, well, and it's relatable.
Speaker: Yes, exactly.
Speaker: And I don't think it diminishes the artisan craftsmanship of it because, God, the curves on that piece, they're so beautiful.
Speaker: But suddenly when you see it that way, it shifts because you can see someone just easing into it.
Speaker: It does suddenly take on a pose of comfort that isn't like a corner chair, not a corner chair, pardon me, a side table chair or Queen Anne.
Speaker: It isn't so upright and sturdy and formal.
Speaker: It's fun.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So people collect for a lot of different reasons, and sometimes one person may collect for many different reasons at the same time.
Speaker: But the way that you describe settling into a chair, sinking into it, it's a very personal kind of approach to the object.
Speaker: It makes you think of all the people who did settle into that chair in that way over time when it was first made and since then.
Speaker: Would you say you connect to objects in that way on sort of a personal use level?
Speaker: That's a great question.
Speaker: On a personal use level, I think that my collecting habits have certainly been a little, a bit more contemporary.
Speaker: So I don't know that they've had the opportunity to have as much historic wear to them.
Speaker: And we'll get to that in a minute because I want to talk about some of the things that you have collected.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think what I have gained, especially from learning from my grandfather's way of collecting, though, is doing the background research, making sure that anything that I do acquire from a third party has a certificate of authenticity or has the means to get that authentication from an estate.
Speaker: But no, I think more the thing that draws me and my collecting habits these days is the story of the designer itself, themself, pardon me, the story of the piece, the thought that went behind it.
Speaker: And I think as we briefly mentioned before recording, I like color.
Speaker: I like splashy colors.
Speaker: I have like big bombastic colors.
Speaker: I have a little bit of what I like to call ugly design taste that I enjoy.
Speaker: It makes living with it a lot more fun, in my opinion.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So it is, you are driven aesthetically, not just by the stories around pieces.
Speaker: You raise an interesting point when you mention certificates of authenticity.
Speaker: I talk on this show with a lot of dealers and a lot of scholars and specialists and that sort of thing.
Speaker: These are the people writing those certificates.
Speaker: But as a collector, as someone who's buying across a wide range of different fields, because you don't just own corner chairs, for example,
Speaker: What are the sources or the hallmarks of reliability that you depend on when you're buying products?
Speaker: That's a great question.
Speaker: I think, A, the major auction houses I do feel pretty strongly that I can trust.
Speaker: If I go with a gallery, and actually the table we're sitting at right now, which is Shiro Koremada's Kyoto table, I got from a gallery.
Speaker: And I hadn't dealt with the gallery in the past.
Speaker: Luckily, the gallerist was wonderful to work with.
Speaker: He was great and he let me be the obnoxious person that I am and tried to negotiate him down as much as possible.
Speaker: But the main thing that was important to me was that this was an authentic Kouramata piece.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And he said that he had been in touch with the Memphis estate and that they had affirmed that this is the real deal.
Speaker: And I said, well, do you have a certificate?
Speaker: And he said, no, but I can put you in touch with the estate and make sure that they'll provide you one.
Speaker: And if you look under the table, there is, in fact, a certificate granted from the
Speaker: Memphis saying that this is the real deal.
Speaker: So that was important to me because I love this piece and I love Koremata's work and I didn't want to get a re-edition.
Speaker: I wanted to make sure that this was made in his lifetime.
Speaker: That was important to me.
Speaker: Why was that, this is a tangent, but why was that important to you?
Speaker: Well, I think if you are acquiring a piece too that's of value to you, whether that is monetary value or sentimental value,
Speaker: I don't have rose-tinted glasses on.
Speaker: I'm not of the mindset that Shirk Ramada worked with the cement and glass of this piece with his hands.
Speaker: I'm sure it was mass-produced in that way.
Speaker: But knowing that...
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: Maybe he touched something on his table.
Speaker: Maybe he had some oversight to confirm that the glass was laid out just the way he wanted it to, that it did replicate his vision of minimalism and bombast at the same time.
Speaker: That's a concept we run across in the world of antique silver all the time.
Speaker: Because, of course, there were...
Speaker: There are very collectible makers.
Speaker: Everyone seeks these makers, whether it's Hester Bateman in England or whether it's Paul Revere in America.
Speaker: And I think some people are under the illusion that a Paul Revere tablespoon is.
Speaker: was made by Paul Revere standing at his anvil with his hammer and pounding it out.
Speaker: And sometimes I have to disillusion people and it's very disappointing to learn that no, in fact, it was a business.
Speaker: And some silversmiths were more likely to have done that work with their own hands than others.
Speaker: But that doesn't mean that Paul Revere's silver is any less interesting and valuable.
Speaker: It did pass through his business, and it is in a sense his.
Speaker: And so you are in a sense connected to him.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Again, I think that what you're touching on is probably also why we do believe as a family and I think as a field that Americana is so important to, which is that those were those are not mass produced.
Speaker: Those were touched by the hands of the craftsmen.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: A John Townsend table is a John Townsend table.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: And again, that the thing that always happens.
Speaker: I think that is obvious to us as a field because we know it, but usually blows people's minds when you really are able to articulate it to them, is that these were handmade pieces.
Speaker: You look at the perfection of a great Bombay and you see the curves on it.
Speaker: And if you don't really understand that that's by hand, it doesn't seem like it's magic.
Speaker: It can feel like something that a machine just kind of plugged out.
Speaker: But when you get that this was made by a human being, and those curves and the drawers are perfectly placed into them, it takes on a whole new quality.
Speaker: I think there's a little bit of magic there.
Speaker: Well, we've been inured to that, right?
Speaker: Because now those curves, we see those kinds of curves in all kinds of mass-produced furniture.
Speaker: Of course, it used to be the only way to get that curve was to make it by hand.
Speaker: And that's why these objects were valuable when they were produced.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Not because they were old.
Speaker: They were new, as you said at the start of our conversation.
Speaker: I just had this experience today.
Speaker: I was looking at an auction catalog, and I saw a set of four silver candlesticks.
Speaker: And it's a mid 18th century form, but they were actually produced by Crichton in the early 20th century.
Speaker: And I paused for a minute when I saw this.
Speaker: I thought, you know, when those were first produced and sold by Crichton, they were sold to someone who for whom it would have been a real novelty to see a mass produced object.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: And Crichton had very skilled craftsmen, of course, but it was a different kind of production and a different scale.
Speaker: But for the first time, perhaps, a young family might have been able to buy a set of candlesticks of that form.
Speaker: And, okay, they're not as valuable as the 18th century ones.
Speaker: But they look just as nice or close to it.
Speaker: And prior to that, prior to Crichton's Enterprise, you just couldn't have had candlesticks that looked like that.
Speaker: There are these moments where, again, whether it's part of the Industrial Revolution or whether it's...
Speaker: a derivative of Moore's law where production kind of takes on a new level and it evolves seeing an example of that.
Speaker: Um, whether we're starting to see it with artificial intelligence art right now, um, as an example, or whether it's, uh, an original Ford, which, you know, was kind of the, the height example of a car that was affordable and beautifully produced, or whether it's Prouvet who was originally that the whole mentality behind Prouvet's work was affordable work that was beautiful and good design for everyone.
Speaker: But now, of course, it's this rare, beautiful object.
Speaker: And what it represents in its simplicity is exceptionalism.
Speaker: So it definitely is fascinating to think about how manufacturing has evolved in the height of the examples.
Speaker: 3D printing will be pretty interesting to see.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: How that starts shaping.
Speaker: And if we see real artisans and artists from that, they're great examples already.
Speaker: I mean, Joris Larman has been doing really interesting work with 3D printing too.
Speaker: But delineating how you define who is the height, exceptional representation of this field when it is mass and scale.
Speaker: It's pretty interesting.
Speaker: So that's not an area I'm familiar with, but in a 3D printing artist, is that someone who creates a design in a CAD program and then sends it to you and you print it out?
Speaker: Precisely, yeah.
Speaker: I think that's definitely an oversimplification of...
Speaker: Of a really exceptional 3D designer, I'd say.
Speaker: But at its base level, absolutely.
Speaker: Yeah, there are a number of programs where you can design these works and you can choose the coloring and formatting.
Speaker: And then, yeah, you can produce it.
Speaker: So let's step back because I want to know a little bit about the transition that you've gone through.
Speaker: Well, I don't know if transition is the right word for it, but you grew up in a family with a keen interest in old American decorative arts.
Speaker: You now collect other things.
Speaker: You collect modern and contemporary works.
Speaker: What is it that you needed to learn as you moved into the world of modern and contemporary art?
Speaker: I think more than anything, the one thing I needed to learn, which has stayed true from the beginning, was something my father taught me really, and probably my mom too, is their example, I guess, of this, which is no matter what you're buying, make sure you like it.
Speaker: Easier said than done.
Speaker: 100%.
Speaker: We had what I would call probably the ugliest painting I've ever seen in my entire life growing up in our apartment in New York City when I was a little kid.
Speaker: and the story behind it is that uh you know my mom and dad were keyed in that this was an up-and-coming artist that he was really he was a great investment um and of course the artist didn't go anywhere and we were stuck with this horrible memory of a bad investment on our wall that we were too stubborn to take down uh so living with that god-awful piece uh
Speaker: Sorry, mom and dad.
Speaker: Was a great example of no matter what, what comes first is make sure that you really love this piece, that you want to live with it, that it has a livability that goes with your life.
Speaker: And that if it's not worth anything to anybody else, it's still worth something to you.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: And I think that...
Speaker: While I certainly live with modern and contemporary, I live with early American.
Speaker: I have two 19th century glass portraits on my wall, which are right below some Geneve Figgis paintings.
Speaker: Geneve Figgis is a contemporary artist that I love.
Speaker: I have some outsider art.
Speaker: I've got a Thornton Dial right when you walked in.
Speaker: In a lot of that, I mean, I didn't know anything about Thornton Dial until I saw that work.
Speaker: And then I was fortunate to have some people give me some books and say, if you're interested in this field, you should really read up on folk art, outsider art, and art brute.
Speaker: And before I acquired any Thornton Dial, I made sure that I read up and I understood the field better so that I wasn't just only reacting on instinct, so that I understood where this was coming from, the field at large.
Speaker: So I try to do that.
Speaker: If something is interesting to me visually, that's usually a step one.
Speaker: Step two is then learning.
Speaker: And then step three, based on the learning, is potentially acquiring or learning more.
Speaker: Right, right.
Speaker: What do you think about if you read old books on collecting, old guides to collecting across different fields of antiques, what you'll often see by way of advice is people saying, well, the first thing you should do is decide what your area is.
Speaker: You should decide, you know, do you want antique maps of Italy?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: From the 17th century.
Speaker: Or do you want 19th century Austrian watercolors?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so the idea is, or do you want American coins?
Speaker: Whatever the area is, the idea is define your area and then try to get the best things that you can.
Speaker: But you're setting a larger stage for yourself.
Speaker: I hope so.
Speaker: I think that we're, I can't speak at large because I think certain collectors collect certain ways with different categories, learning about different fields.
Speaker: speaks to my interests, it speaks to how I want to live.
Speaker: God, I would love to have the greatest representation of Austrian watercolors, but I don't see why I can't have that and dip my toes in contemporary art as well.
Speaker: And I think it's reflective of how people live today.
Speaker: And I think it should be encouraged.
Speaker: I think it's important also for antiques, for early American as well, to show the diversity and the ability to live in a modern contemporary setting with these pieces too.
Speaker: Because so often, to your point, you see period settings or you see these unbelievably ornate, beautiful rooms, but they can feel dated.
Speaker: They sometimes don't feel contemporary.
Speaker: And I don't know that it's the best example to younger people that this is still a vibrant field.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: It feels like you have to consign yourself to living in a museum.
Speaker: Precisely.
Speaker: So tell me about this, because different people, as we've touched on, collect in different ways, but they also enjoy their collections in different ways.
Speaker: Some people try to create the most consistent and period appropriate and wonderfully beautiful
Speaker: rooms that they can.
Speaker: And then they throw a party and they invite everybody over to admire it and enjoy the setting together.
Speaker: And that can be a wonderfully exciting thing to do.
Speaker: Other people collect a few things and put them in a china hutch and take them out once a year to look at them.
Speaker: um how do you enjoy the things that that you've collected do you enjoy them by yourself or socially or do you enjoy them academically i think a mix and match i think um right or wrong uh just because my brother and i have become um we've gone deeper in the design field and learned more about it what's been really interesting to me is that my friends ask me for recommendations now um
Speaker: It comes from a place of being uninformed, I think, in some cases, that they want to learn about it, but they don't know the access points yet.
Speaker: They don't know where to begin collecting to.
Speaker: So I would say if I were to say that my collecting habits are social, it would be in hopefully trying to open up different fields for friends and colleagues and younger people as well.
Speaker: I certainly like having people over, but I don't do the kind of parade thing where I go, oh, and if you look at this piece right here, it's a wonderful photograph.
Speaker: If people ask me questions about certain pieces, I'll definitely tell them.
Speaker: But I like living with these pieces.
Speaker: I think that was the example, again, that our grandfather set for Eric and I, too, which is he lived with all of his pieces.
Speaker: He sat in the John Brown chair every single Thanksgiving.
Speaker: He wasn't precious about his items.
Speaker: He recognized the utilitarian quality of them as well.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You know, again, going back to the table, we're sitting at this right now.
Speaker: We were having drinks on this table right now.
Speaker: I just dropped your coaster on the floor.
Speaker: That's totally fine.
Speaker: We picked it up and, you know, scuffed it off.
Speaker: It's no big deal.
Speaker: I think you should derive pleasure from the things you live with, but you shouldn't you shouldn't be tiptoeing around it.
Speaker: This is this is your life.
Speaker: This is your home.
Speaker: I like sitting in in these chairs and at this table.
Speaker: Do your tastes differ from that of the rest of your family?
Speaker: Yeah, I'd say so.
Speaker: My brother and I are constantly battling over who has the better taste.
Speaker: Eric has the better taste, there's no question.
Speaker: You just concede that, right?
Speaker: Yeah, I concede it.
Speaker: I've conceded it, I think, from an early age.
Speaker: He's gotten his thet's eye, and he always has.
Speaker: He has a very refined taste, and he understands how things go together.
Speaker: Beautifully.
Speaker: I mean, like he can... Typical older brother.
Speaker: Typical older brother.
Speaker: Terrible.
Speaker: He can, whether he recognizes or not, it's almost like a merchandiser's approach where things that he collects, he's able to put them together in a way that it almost looks like it's editorialized.
Speaker: um i'm a little more mishmash uh a little more uh willy-nilly um again going back to what i said before i like big colors um and sometimes people disagree they'll think that it's ugly or it's weird or but i don't really you just proudly called it ugly a
Speaker: Yeah, to some people, not to me.
Speaker: To me, I love it.
Speaker: I like living with color.
Speaker: It's fun for me.
Speaker: It certainly, again, and I think that adds to the quality, too, of not being scared to sit and enjoy these things, too.
Speaker: I think if everything was white and original Florence Knoll, who I love, by the way, but if it was all white and...
Speaker: I would probably be tiptoeing around my apartment.
Speaker: The fact that everything is colorful, I can be a little more dangerous with it, which is fun.
Speaker: Noah was kind enough to take me on a tour of his collection, which is to say his apartment.
Speaker: We'll jump into that momentarily, but first let's hear from our sponsor.
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Speaker: I always like to take just a minute to say thank you for listening to Curious Objects.
Speaker: I especially want to thank those of you who have written to me with your feedback, which you can do over email at podcast at themagazineantiques.com.
Speaker: I love hearing from you, and I also love reading the reviews you leave on iTunes.
Speaker: Every rating and review helps spread the word, and it's kind of you to take a minute to do that, so thank you very much.
Speaker: And now let's get back to Noah Wunsch.
Speaker: Um, well, it's your apartment.
Speaker: Um, where do you want to start?
Speaker: Um, where should we start, Indy?
Speaker: Well, we should start with Indiana Jones.
Speaker: There we go.
Speaker: Well, I've collected a dog.
Speaker: Ah, Indiana Jones.
Speaker: He's a little bit of a mutt.
Speaker: Looking around, it was hard to say which pieces were functional and which were decorative.
Speaker: In fact, plenty of Noah's objects are both at the same time.
Speaker: We stopped to look at a small, decorated copper square.
Speaker: Over here, we've got an ancient, seething, gulp clip.
Speaker: When I moved into this apartment, and this is from 60 BC, which is always fun.
Speaker: It's a Visigothic buckle, pardon me.
Speaker: So when they took a break from sacking Rome, they made built buckles.
Speaker: This apartment kind of used to be a storage facility in many ways for my grandpa just for all the weird random things he collected.
Speaker: So every now and then I'll just kind of open a closet and feel around and find a Visigothic belt buckle.
Speaker: That's amazing.
Speaker: But when I first moved in, he had ancient glass all over the apartment.
Speaker: I mean, like strewn about the floor, which was great.
Speaker: I mean, works from 500 BC.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Which they should not have been.
Speaker: So part of the fun part of moving in here, too, was starting to organize his collection a little bit, too, and make sure that they weren't on the floor.
Speaker: But learning as the process went along, too.
Speaker: It's like walking through the storeroom of a museum.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The first piece that had caught my eye when I first walked into Noah's apartment was a floor lamp with a beautiful glass shade in a hatched azure pattern.
Speaker: It's on a tall patinated stand with three cabriol legs and a just-so Art Nouveau look.
Speaker: So this is a Tiffany Studio lamp.
Speaker: And this is probably one of my favorite pieces, period, in the world ever.
Speaker: This is my grandma's.
Speaker: And she loved it.
Speaker: She brought it kind of... She really only lived in two places, but she made sure that this was at her couch side always.
Speaker: This was kind of her reading lamp.
Speaker: And it's got this beautiful little spider detail on the lampshade that's...
Speaker: You don't really notice it from across the room.
Speaker: If I step back a few feet, I barely see it.
Speaker: I think it took me years to notice it.
Speaker: And I remember the day I did, my mind just kind of exploded because it was just this little hidden secret.
Speaker: I think, in fact, I had the reaction that I was probably supposed to have, which is I thought there was a gigantic spider underneath the shade.
Speaker: It's a little creepy.
Speaker: Yeah, but there's something so playful about it that I think also spoke to kind of who my grandma was.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: So it's a special piece for me, and I love it.
Speaker: Do you think she bought it because she felt it reflected who she was?
Speaker: I think she liked Tiffany.
Speaker: But I think she had a sense of humor, so I definitely think there was an aspect of that spider, I think, that she knew would be fun.
Speaker: It's a whimsical piece, not just the spider.
Speaker: The stand is... The legs.
Speaker: Yeah, there's a sort of Dr. Seuss quality to it.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: It kind of jumps off the ground like a spider.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: over here.
Speaker: I was trying to do some more research on this sword.
Speaker: I have to tell you, this is a mystery to all of us.
Speaker: We don't know the background or anything.
Speaker: I like mysteries.
Speaker: But the wonderful thing about this sword, I remember growing up, my brother and I would go to visit our grandparents, and our grandpa would hand us, I kid you not, this sword and another sword to give me and my brother the opportunity to have a literal sword fight.
Speaker: Okay, and for the sake of listeners, I mean, this is a
Speaker: This is a sword.
Speaker: Yeah, it's from 1790.
Speaker: It doesn't have the cork tip on it that it had when my brother and I were fighting.
Speaker: But again, just to keep in mind, it was just a cork on the tip of the blade.
Speaker: This could have done serious damage.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Did it?
Speaker: No, shockingly no.
Speaker: I think it was probably too heavy for my tiny little arms to swing around.
Speaker: But yeah, this is just a piece I love.
Speaker: I mean, that was a literal fantasy of mine when I was that age.
Speaker: I hate to run this in.
Speaker: I got to live your fantasy.
Speaker: I know, I know.
Speaker: No one ever gave me a sword.
Speaker: Well, that was probably for the best.
Speaker: Probably, yeah.
Speaker: And then these glass-blown canes, which are underneath it.
Speaker: Next, we looked at a pair of long glass tubes decorated with colorful spirals and with a bulb at one end.
Speaker: I don't know who the maker is on these, but again, these were ones that I would always see growing up and I always thought they were priceless.
Speaker: I don't know, there's a level of fantasy to them that I think probably speaks to also why I collect such weird things too.
Speaker: That there's a little bit of magic in things.
Speaker: Well, it's nice to have a personal nostalgia associated with it.
Speaker: This one over here too, it just looks and feels a bit like a staff.
Speaker: Yeah, sure.
Speaker: I could see Gandalf using that.
Speaker: Yeah, here.
Speaker: We're not dainty with our things.
Speaker: Enjoy.
Speaker: Fabulous.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's lovely.
Speaker: You've just finished telling me about how you don't invite people over in lecture.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: You asked.
Speaker: That's what I came here for.
Speaker: These two paintings, which are these glass portraits from the 19th century.
Speaker: We had a look at two small images hanging on Noah's wall, both reverse paintings on glass, which is an old technique where paint is applied to the back of a plate of glass, then viewed from the front.
Speaker: The effect is saturated colors with high contrast, and in this case, portraits of a very distinguished looking man and woman.
Speaker: Honestly, probably worthless.
Speaker: I mean, I bought them.
Speaker: I think these might have actually been my first acquisition at auction.
Speaker: I think I was probably 23 or something.
Speaker: And I think, honestly, the estimate was $300 to $500 for a pair of them.
Speaker: And the auctioneer was wonderful to humor me in that he took my telephone bid for a $300 to $500 piece.
Speaker: In my mind, I just remember...
Speaker: Yeah, the bid probably raised to $350.
Speaker: On the other end of the line, I just heard, so do you want to bid $400?
Speaker: And I was like, oh, I don't know.
Speaker: It's tough.
Speaker: And I was like, yeah, okay, bid.
Speaker: And we won it.
Speaker: And I just remember celebrating to myself and the auctioneer being like, okay, bye.
Speaker: I have to go now.
Speaker: They're going to sell something worth real money.
Speaker: Yeah, real money.
Speaker: Who's the fellow in the Fed?
Speaker: That's my grandfather.
Speaker: So that was him on his 75th birthday wearing an ascot.
Speaker: The man can pull an ascot off.
Speaker: Wow, it looks very natural.
Speaker: And then this little medicine cabinet.
Speaker: I like actually what's inside of it more than the medicine cabinet itself.
Speaker: Oh, what's inside it?
Speaker: Just a bunch of playing cards.
Speaker: And we used to... The company that my family started way back when called Silent Hoist, which was, again, an industrial engineer company, created these cards every holiday for people who worked at the company.
Speaker: Is it worth less when it's not in its original packaging?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: I'm being a bad collector right now.
Speaker: Oh, no.
Speaker: But I love the cards.
Speaker: There we are.
Speaker: I'm a big fan of games, so... But these are just so smooth and I love the insignia.
Speaker: Just some weird fun things that... I think we're proud of our family heritage.
Speaker: So it's nice to have this kind of memorabilia almost.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: The drawers are sticky.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What about the, well, I don't want to jump ahead, but I'm curious about the magazines.
Speaker: Yeah, sure.
Speaker: was writing for them.
Speaker: I was the editor of a few and then I transitioned onto the business development side.
Speaker: But I had a real love for print magazines, especially older magazines and kind of the time capsule they represented too.
Speaker: Old interview magazines I think are just some of the greatest works ever.
Speaker: And you don't see magazine covers like that anymore.
Speaker: Bosworth one.
Speaker: And it's certainly a celebrity profile photo, but the artistic quality, it's beautiful.
Speaker: It's a work of art all its own.
Speaker: I had to pull out Navicrombie & Fitch Quarterly Back to See.
Speaker: Because for anyone who grew up during the 90s, the time capsule that that represents is just above and above.
Speaker: That is a blast from the past.
Speaker: It's crazy.
Speaker: When you say...
Speaker: The nostalgic quality, but also the ability to transport yourself suddenly by going through the pages, it's eerie.
Speaker: It's eerie and it's amazing.
Speaker: And then there are these magazines from the 80s called Wet Magazine that was about bath culture.
Speaker: I kid you not.
Speaker: It was a magazine about baths.
Speaker: Like high-end luxury baths.
Speaker: And the whole mentality behind it, it was pretty much a punk magazine.
Speaker: It was this guy out of the West Coast who wanted to start a magazine.
Speaker: And he's like, everything else has been done.
Speaker: So I'll start a magazine called Wet Magazine about bath culture.
Speaker: So I have magazines probably ranging back from the 1950s through today.
Speaker: And that's transitioned into a love for books now, too.
Speaker: A familiar book cover caught my eye.
Speaker: It was Holden Caulfield in his trademark red hunting cap.
Speaker: But here he is wearing it backwards and has a rather dandy scarf around his neck.
Speaker: What's the Catcher in the Rye edition?
Speaker: So the Catcher in the Rye, this is an interesting one.
Speaker: I was surprised because I got this for a whisper at Mass Books.
Speaker: There were very few editions of the Catcher in the Rye that actually had an image of Holton Caulfield on the front cover.
Speaker: J.D.
Speaker: Salinger was adamant that no one should see or understand what Holden looked like.
Speaker: Oh, right.
Speaker: So this is heresy, actually.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: There are a few releases of magazines that actually did feature him with his red hunting cap on the cover, and this was one of them, and I was lucky that I could just kind of snag it through a whisper, but it was just one of those weird little things I spotted and immediately called out to me.
Speaker: I love this.
Speaker: This unusual book may shock you, will make you laugh, and may break your heart, but you will never forget it.
Speaker: And then over here, though, I've got another edition from American Book Club from the 1960s.
Speaker: That's another harder one to find with The Catcher in the Rye.
Speaker: Obviously I love the Catcher on the Ride, there's no surprise there I'd say.
Speaker: But finding these little, there's that detail... Why should that be obvious?
Speaker: I mean, I can imagine.
Speaker: I think everyone loves the Catcher on the Ride for the most part.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: You're not saying you identify with Holder.
Speaker: No, of course not.
Speaker: There's a special place in my heart, but the little details too, just kind of the illustrated qualities, how the 16, that number kind of swoops to the right too.
Speaker: That's not in the actual edition.
Speaker: Just having these special qualities of them.
Speaker: And I also love the space.
Speaker: Because everyone is familiar, obviously, with the usual printing of The Catcher and the Ryan.
Speaker: It's kind of like almost a little chapbook.
Speaker: And it feels very condensed.
Speaker: So to have it almost kind of luxuriate in this much white space and paper, it's almost as if the story's expanding too.
Speaker: Which I really love.
Speaker: It certainly feels like a serious volume.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's not.
Speaker: Well, let's see.
Speaker: The only thing I've...
Speaker: that's the example of actually living with a period piece too.
Speaker: And then of course the case frame above it, which is 18th century, and the portraits as well.
Speaker: Again, I
Speaker: Contemporary living with period is really interesting to me.
Speaker: There's something about this case piece that just fits in, I think really anywhere.
Speaker: I think you could live on it somewhere.
Speaker: You could live in a period room and not feel out of place.
Speaker: You could live in a contemporary setting and not be out of place.
Speaker: The carved lions on the side of it.
Speaker: It's a really beautiful piece of craftsmanship.
Speaker: And then having... Bold.
Speaker: Yes, definitely bold.
Speaker: And so is the gigantic frame above it.
Speaker: Indeed, which I will note is empty.
Speaker: Yes, I like the empty space.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Which might be surprising considering how full this space actually is and packed the walls are.
Speaker: And then over here, this is probably one of my favorite pieces too, which is a Robert Mapplethorpe photograph I got from this great gallery on the west coast called Moran Moran.
Speaker: And they represent the Mapplethorpe estate.
Speaker: And this is this one called the Rock Cats.
Speaker: That was some gang members, one gang member in particular, obviously for this photo, that Mapplethorpe photographed.
Speaker: And I just love the swoop of his hair.
Speaker: I mean, it's just there is such an essence of cool about it.
Speaker: It is so cool and classic Mapplethorpe.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Well, we've done a pretty good tour.
Speaker: What are the what's the story with these chairs?
Speaker: We are looking at a pair of almost cartoon like chairs that look like someone's very colorful laundry stuffed into a plastic frame.
Speaker: So these are a designer named Katie Stout, who's represented by R& Company and Nina Johnson Gallery.
Speaker: It's funny, she works, she graduated from RISD alongside another great designer named Misha Khan, who's represented by Friedman Benda.
Speaker: And I think Misha, I know actually, Misha had these chairs in his apartment.
Speaker: for a bit and there was an editorial cover of his apartment and I remember reaching out to Misha and saying Misha I love your chairs like I need can I can I buy your chairs he's like I didn't design those those are Katie so I originally reached I immediately reached out to Katie and asked if if they were available so I bought Misha's chairs designed by Katie but again I just think they're so much fun and they're actually extremely comfortable are they really they're they're please again once again I've got to give this a try yeah
Speaker: Oh, you're right.
Speaker: It's like sitting in a stuffed animal.
Speaker: I mean, it's wonderful.
Speaker: Yeah, but you wouldn't necessarily think to look at them, but... Yeah, I would take this over a corner chair anyway.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Very cozy.
Speaker: The lazy boy of its time.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: The lazy boy of our time.
Speaker: This whole living with antiques thing seems like a little bit of fun, doesn't it?
Speaker: I hope you all enjoyed it.
Speaker: That wraps up our tour of Noah Wunch's World of Wonders.
Speaker: Thanks so much to Noah for talking with me and sharing your home.
Speaker: Keep in mind, you can see pictures at themagazineantiques.com or on my Instagram at Objective Interest.
Speaker: And send me your thoughts and comments at podcast at themagazineantiques.com.
Speaker: Catch us again next month.
Speaker: Today's episode was edited and produced by Sammy Delati.
Speaker: Our music is by Trap Rabbit.
Speaker: And I'm Ben Miller.
