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Defend A Book #1: How To Fake It in Hollywood by Ava Wilder | S2Ep3
271 Plays2 years ago
Court is now in session; beware of MAJOR spoilers for How To Fake It in Hollywood starting at ~14:30
This week How To Fake it in Hollywood by Ava Wilder is on trial as the first installment of Defend a Book takes place. Brandi and Kayla (the prosecution) express why this book was a miss for them, while Kendra (the defense) explains why HTFFIH is one of her favorite books of the year.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Bring Your Own' Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Hey guys. Oh my god. Sorry. Hey guys. Hello. Hi guys. Welcome to Bring Your Own, a catch all bookishness of the time podcast. I'm Brandi. I'm Kendra.
00:00:19
Speaker
I'm Kayla.
Explaining 'Defend a Book' Segment
00:00:21
Speaker
Today is our first installment of depend a book. Our taste as the three of us is almost always in line. Like if even if we don't love everything the other two love, we usually like it. There are very, very few rare cases where we're just not a fan of something that somebody else loves. So for this series, each of us will be defending a book that the other two read because of us.
00:00:45
Speaker
and was not a fan of.
Current Reads and Drinks
00:00:47
Speaker
So our first pick today is How to Pick in Hollywood by Ava Walder, which I will be defending because these two ladies over here just think it's like the worst book ever. And that is astounding to me. So that is so dramatic, actually incorrect. Well, that's how it feels. But before we jump in.
Reading Habits and Genres
00:01:11
Speaker
What are you guys reading? What are you guys drinking? I am just drinking water right now, but I did have an iced chai just a little bit ago because it's still a morning and it was delish. Um, currently I'm not actually reading anything new. I'm listening to Daisy hates the audio book re-listening. I am like 40% through right now. Um, and right now I'm having a great time because so far,
00:01:38
Speaker
I'm not at the painful parts. So it's going great. I also listened to chapter 25 earlier this morning, which if you have read the book, then you probably know it made me laugh. It made me laugh. It's the Italy chapter.
00:01:55
Speaker
So that was, that was a good title. And I did just finish though. Like, like I said, I'm not physically reading anything new, but I did just finish The Ballad of Never After by Stephanie Garber, that series. And it was very good. It was very painful. I wasn't expecting it to be like so sad, but the next book comes out in October and I'm very excited.
Audiobook Narrators and Humor
00:02:17
Speaker
I'm really on my fantasy kick this year, you guys.
00:02:20
Speaker
It's been fun, it's been fun. As you should. I am currently drinking lemon water ASMR. Yeah, I was going to make a coffee this morning, but all my cups are dirty. No to blame but myself. I am having some water instead. It's crazy.
00:02:39
Speaker
I started the dishwasher before I realized that everything was dirty, Kayla and. All right. So yeah, got some lemon water. I am currently listening to a lady of light and shadows, which is booked to in the tear and soul series by CL Wilson, which is also a fantasy series.
00:03:01
Speaker
CL Wilson is my queen of like great stories and ugly ass covers. Like the covers for this series are some of the most heinous covers I've ever seen in my life. But I'm liking the story so far. Yeah. And then I am physically reading Out on a Lim by Hannah Bonham Young. Yeah. So excited. I love it. I read like 35% of it last night in one sitting. So I'll probably finish it today. It's a very soft book. Like I feel warm thinking about it.
00:03:29
Speaker
And like, because you said that and like I, like you also said, like it's low stakes in the best way. Like it just feels so sweet and gentle. I wasn't expecting it to be so funny. I don't know why it's, I just was like, Oh, I was just so ready for like a tender soft book, which it is, but it's still like actually so funny. Like Wynn and Beau are so funny. So.
00:03:47
Speaker
I'm loving it. Yay. I am drinking matcha this morning and it's very good. I went to I got up and went to Starbucks and then I'm also listening to Daisy hates, but I'm not as far as Kayla. I'm actually been taking my time. I didn't expect I didn't expect this book to like piss me off so bad, like in the beginning. And, you know, I figured it out. It's because like, don't shoot me, Brandy. Oh, my gosh.
00:04:15
Speaker
It's the guy who does Christian's voice is just a little too good at, like, his accent to where, like, everything Christian says is, like, right, like, it's just right on. And, you know, Christian just says some dumb shit sometimes to where I'm just like, I get, like, a, it's like a visceral reaction in me. I'm like, oh, my God. But he's, like, doing such, like, the actor that they got for him is so good. Like, his, just the way he speaks, I'm like, actually, I think he's the best, he might be the best narrator out of the entire, um...
00:04:44
Speaker
I would think so. Well, him and Ella, the girl who does Magnolia, I think are like the top two narrators, I would say. He sounds, I compare him to, he sounds his accent specifically. And I mean, a little bit his voice too, in general, sounds like Jamie Tarte from Ted Lasso. But in the way that he says, like, fucking, he's like, you fucking kidding me. It's so funny.
00:05:06
Speaker
I just, I forgot, I have to go a long way with Christian. Like I do love him so much, but like the beginning of this book, like he makes me want to scream sometimes. No, like that's so fair. I like, I have such crazy blinders on because every character in the series makes me want to pull my hair out at different times. But Christian, I'm like, you guys, he comes so far, like think about his journey.
00:05:29
Speaker
Last night, Kendra and I were ranking the MPU men since we're both listening to it. And I, first of all, Julian was my number one, but I tied BJ and Christian at two. I thought you'd be proud of me, Brandi. I was like, I was like, that's definitely a choice. You know, but listen, though, the only reason that I ranked like, because normally I would rank BJ a little higher than Christian, but but but.
Kendra Defends 'How to Fake It in Hollywood'
00:05:54
Speaker
But Brandy, hang on a minute. But I was like, but the thing is, is like Christian and Daisy hates too. I was like, name me one bad thing that he did. Like one bad thing. And then I did name one thing, but it was a thought. It wasn't something he actually was a thought. Yeah. But it was like a dumb thought. And I was like, why are you thinking of this?
00:06:16
Speaker
But, but the rest, the lips. Yes. He's like, oh yeah, Magnolia has the best. And I'm like, Christian, second best, second best. But I'm like, Christian, think about what got you in trouble in the first, but think about it, think about it.
00:06:32
Speaker
Anyway, I'm listening to Daisy Heats 2 and I'm not physically reading anything. I've just finished rewatching, not rewatching, I got caught up on Hi I'm At Your Father season 2 and I'm like one thing away from rewatching all of Hi I'm At Your Mother. I literally have to restrain myself because once I start I cannot stop until I finish the whole thing. So I'm holding on. Yeah, don't do it. That's too long.
00:06:58
Speaker
Is it like 20 minute episodes, right? Yeah, it's only nine seasons. It's like 100, almost 200 episodes. I can do it. It's like one of my favorite guys. It's so good. And it's like very it's super romantic. I think that's why I love it so much because like so much of it is focused on like the romance and not just like the antics. And it's just a great show. I mean, it has not. I want to say that.
00:07:20
Speaker
Um, no, but I am a fan of the last season, which is an unpopular opinion. I think the last season is like, hi, my, your mother at it. It's like some of its best. It's hilarious. The ending episode. I don't know what, what they were doing, but I like the alternate ending that is on YouTube. Ladies and gentlemen, you should be.
00:07:39
Speaker
I feel like the confidence level should be opposite, like Kendra should be scared, but Kayla and I are scared. So today, as previously mentioned, Kendra will be defending.
00:07:51
Speaker
How to Fake it in Hollywood by Ava Wilder. All three of us have read this book. Kendra was the first one to read it. It was like your first book of the year, right? It was my first book of the year. It was it was one of them. It was the first. I think it was like book number five for me this year. And it was the first contemporary romance book that I gave five stars this year. And then, of course, Kayla and I read it right after.
00:08:18
Speaker
Once, once Kendra read it, of course, she's like, Oh my god, this book was amazing, amazing. I think you'd really like it, you should read it. And so I went on to Libby and they had the audio book available immediately. So I listened to the audio book, it's narrated by
00:08:34
Speaker
Andrew Eden aka Teddy Hamilton boo and Who and who is the female narrator? Teresa Teresa? Oh Rose Calloway Rose Calloway. Yeah Female narrator, she's great. Teddy is like, okay. Okay. Yeah, Teddy is okay. Kendra hates him. I don't hate him, but he's just like fine. I
00:08:56
Speaker
So I read it, you know, or listened to it rather, I guess you should say. And yeah, I initially I told Kendra I gave it five or not five stars, four stars, four point two five, maybe. And then Brandi read it shortly after. And I can't really remember what. Yeah, you listened to it, too. And I can't remember if it was like just you posted it on your tracker and didn't say anything. But I was like, Brandi, truthfully, tell me what your rating was. Like, be honest.
00:09:23
Speaker
And I gave that book a swift 3.75. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, if I'm honest, I think I would take it down to probably the similar rating. Yeah.
00:09:33
Speaker
I want to say right here that Brandi and I, I might've said this last week, or I don't know, so this is a repeat, I'm sorry, but Brandi and I got lunch, dinner, like a month ago, and we're talking about how to fake it in Hollywood, and she's like, oh my god, I gave it the same rating that I gave Powerless, you guys. Brandi literally hated Powerless so much, like she would not shut up about how much she hated it, like she hated that book, and so for her to sit there and insult me by saying, oh, I gave it the same rating I gave Powerless, like that was supposed to make it
00:10:02
Speaker
it better, that was like wild to me. I was like, whoa, I didn't know you hated it that much. OK, no, no, no, no. So like I you have to think about how much I hate Powerless in relation to the other Chestnut Springs books on its own. If that book didn't exist in the Chestnut Springs universe, I probably would have rated it higher. So I feel like saying you would have rated that book higher if it did not exist. It had everything you hate it. You don't like under credit law.
00:10:31
Speaker
Yeah, the whole time we were reading it when we were in California, you were struggling. Yeah. Yeah. OK. I don't hate that book. So I'm trying to say like I. Yeah, sorry. I don't hate either of them. I don't think I like either of them very much. I don't. Yeah, I don't I don't hate this book by any means. Kendra, we're just really dramatic about books that we love. And so if we also don't love them at the same level, the other is automatically like, oh, so you hate it.
00:11:00
Speaker
Yeah, you guys do hate me. And this happens a lot though when I read books and it's not just with you guys, it's people that just follow me and I talk to regularly, is that when I love something, I beat it into the ground. And this happens to me too, when you see someone raving about something, you're gonna go in with such high expectations.
00:11:23
Speaker
Um, and so then like, you know, it gets ruined for people, but whereas like I went into this book with no expectations, right? Like I knew almost nothing where I was like, you guys didn't get that because I was in your guys's ear being like, it's so good. Like that. So like, I don't know, it just sucks. But yeah, it sucks that that happened. But oh well.
00:11:44
Speaker
And I mean, like we said before, Brandy and I also listened to it. Um, and there has been instances where, you know, I've wondered if I would have liked a book better had I physically read it versus listening to it. You know, I, the same thing happened with Kendra with two wrongs make a right. Like she listened to it. I physically read it and I loved that book. Kendra was like, eh, about that book. So, you know, it makes you wonder, it makes you wonder how much like a good narrator actually plays into it.
00:12:11
Speaker
I don't hate Teddy Hamilton the same way that Kendra hates Teddy Hamilton. I don't either. But he's not like at my top and like nowhere near my top. I don't think he has the capability for me to make or break a book. And I love Teresa Plummer. So I don't think it was the audio for me. I just think Teddy Hamilton, why would I want to hear that little country ass twang for Ethan when Ethan's from New York City and has been living in LA for the past 20 years? Where's that country twang coming from?
00:12:37
Speaker
I don't know what section is so funny. I don't know what you're talking about either. I know he has a distinct way of talking, but when I think country time. It's very light. You know Kimmy did it really good when she sent us a voicemail and she was like, chapter one.
00:12:57
Speaker
That's so funny. Oh my God. I was trying to explain this to somebody that like one of my favorite past times is imitating narrators in our group chats that we have. Like when Kayla and I were listening to the devil series, we just kept going back and forth with Samantha Brentmore. Oh my God. Yeah. She has very distinct ways of saying, I love her. She's so good.
00:13:19
Speaker
A couple of months ago, Jared and I were in Yosemite and I was like, let's listen to an audio book. And so I put on like a thriller audio book by an author that I had previously read and loved. And the narrator was Teddy Hamilton and Jared could not stop laughing. He was drowning on him the whole time. He hated it. Now, to be fair, the guy that was in the audio book was sort of like a he he like owned a ranch in Wyoming or something like that. So he did purposefully have.
00:13:46
Speaker
like a little bit of an accent, and Jared could not stop laughing. He was like, what is this? He hated it. He hated it. Jared and I sing eye to eye on something, love. Yeah, but the thing is, if I put on any audiobook, Jared is going to find a way to make fun of it. If I put on Zachary Weber, Jason Clark, Connor Craves, whoever, he would find a way to beat them to the ground. You just got to be mean back.
00:14:13
Speaker
I know. It's just so funny though. It makes me laugh. You dirty talk. I'd be pissed off. Like, you're like, oh, it's so funny. I'm like, no, stop. Okay. Well, court is now in session.
00:14:33
Speaker
To start, I, the defense, will be reading the synopsis of the book that can be found on the back of the book and on Amazon, where I am reading this from. The book On the Sand on Trial is How to Bake It in Hollywood by Ava Wilder. It is her debut. And the description goes, Gray Brooks is on a mission to keep her career afloat now that the end of her long-running teen TV show, Think Like Riverdale, has her unsuccessfully pounding the pavement again.
00:15:00
Speaker
With a life-changing role on the line, she's finally desperate enough to agree to her publicist scheme, fake a love affair with a disgraced Hollywood heartthrob who needs the publicity, but for very different reasons. Ethan Atkins just wants to be left alone.
00:15:14
Speaker
Between his high-profile divorce, struggles with drinking and grief over the death of his longtime creative partner and best friend, Ethan has slowly let himself fade into the background. But if he ever wants to produce the last movie he and his partner wrote together, Ethan needs to clean up his reputation and step back into the spotlight. A gossip-inducing affair with a gorgeous actress might just be the ticket.
00:15:34
Speaker
even if it's the last thing he wants to do. Though their juicy public relationship is less than perfect behind the scenes, it doesn't take long before Gray and Ethan sizzling chemistry starts
Character Depth: Grey and Ethan
00:15:44
Speaker
to feel more than just an act. Wait, it starts to feel... Wait, what? It starts to feel like more than just an act. But after decades in a ruthless industry that requires bulletproof emotional armor to survive, are they too used to faking it to open themselves up to a real thing? I swear to God, I know how to read. That is the description of How to Fake it in Hollywood by Ava Wilder.
00:16:03
Speaker
Now, Brandi, what are the crimes that this book is being accused of, if you will? Yes. So the defendant don't piss me off of being forgettable as a whole. Ethan being a deadbeat dad and the characters having a lack of chemistry and personality. That's wild. OK. Yeah. So the defense today, obviously, is Kendra and the prosecution is Brandi and myself now.
00:16:32
Speaker
As is normal in a court of law, we have our opening statements prepared and I will go ahead and read the opening statement for the defense for my colleague, Branny. You mean for the prosecution. Oh, you're reading it for me. Oh, whoops. Just kidding. I am a professional lawyer and I am reading the prosecution's opening statement. Thank you. Have you read this yet, Kendra? I did read it. You're such a liar. OK.
00:17:01
Speaker
Today, my colleague and I will convince you by the end of this episode that How to Fake it in Hollywood is just an okay, at best, book. The book, while having a strong premise, fails to deliver on a lot of fronts. For one, the book is forgettable. My colleague and I even had a hard time remembering certain plot points in preparation for this episode. It was that forgettable.
00:17:23
Speaker
Ethan and Grey's lack of chemistry begs the question, why are they together again? Why do they love each other? We actually cannot name one facet of their personalities. Was Grey outgoing? Was Ethan funny? We don't know. The pacing of this book was off, and we are told important things that happen, but why aren't we shown? As a reader, it's hard to accept character development when we don't actually get to see it happen. Overall, How to Fake It into Hollywood is not the book of the year that the defense claims it is.
00:18:01
Speaker
So a few things. Let's start with something you said towards the end of me saying book of the year. I never said this was book of the year. It is one of my favorite books of the year. It's definitely in the top 10. So to say that this was the book of the year that I said that is factually inaccurate. So let's start there. Since my colleagues claim that this book is so forgettable, I don't know, those brains, they are a little older than me. So maybe they just have.
00:18:17
Speaker
We look forward to proving that to you today. Thank you. That was definitely a statement. Thank you.
00:18:31
Speaker
Trouble remembering. Objection.
00:18:36
Speaker
They're relevant. Sorry. You're right. Their age is not relevant. I will take it back. I will help you help you remember some key things. But let's start with Ethan and Grey, because you guys say they don't have a personality, which I think is really funny to me. Grey, I would describe. She's like 27, about to be 28. We actually see her celebrate her birthday in this, which leads to one of my favorite moments in the entire book. But you guys probably don't remember that because you don't remember anything.
00:19:03
Speaker
So anyways, Grey is like 27, she's a working actor. And I would describe her to be very resilient, hard working, and she is very sarcastic. And I think that's what pairs her, that's what makes her so good with Ethan because Ethan
00:19:20
Speaker
who is at a level of fame that so few people reach. He is a supernova of a guy within the industry. He reached so much fame, very young, quickly fell into drugs, alcohol partying, and then he loses his best friend in a tragic way and a car accident that he feels responsible for. He goes through this very messy public divorce. So Ethan is really down in the dumps when he meets Gray, and I think a lot of people in his life are treating him with kid gloves except for Gray.
00:19:48
Speaker
The first meeting that they meet to like discuss their arrangement to start fake dating He expects her to be this like kind of shallow Actress like this girl who just like wants to like be famous and then she starts to talk and he's like, oh
00:20:05
Speaker
That's not who she is. Like, he tries to pull a fastball on her, is late, very rude, and she, like, refuses to put up with it. And I think that speaks a lot to her character. Like, she is scrappy and works hard and, like, wants to have a good career. I don't know. Like, I think of Grant. I think she's fucking funny. Like, there are so many moments when her and Ethan are going back and forth. They have such a good banter. And she will call him out on his shit. And I think that's exactly what he needs. Now, Ethan's personality. Yeah, you know, he's a little down in the dumps. It's almost like he's an addict.
00:20:35
Speaker
who is grieving and struggling very, very hard throughout this book. Yes, Randy, would you like to say something?
00:20:42
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think that we're saying that like him being down at the dumps was the issue. I think there was like, that wasn't explored very well. Like, no, like the fast, like his personality is one faceted, like he's just miserable. And I think that we can look at other examples of characters who are struggling with alcoholism, more inhale, where his character is multifaceted.
00:21:06
Speaker
Interesting. I would say anyways, I think Ethan is a very caring person who's dealing with a lot of demons. There's even a point where his ex-wife Nora is like he has so much pain. He just does not know how to hold it well. And that line will always stick with me. So, yeah, I think they have great personalities and they're matched really well. And now, of course, I'm losing my train of thought because I'm looking at you guys being all fucking smug at my face.
00:21:37
Speaker
I okay I I will I will say that with Ethan maybe like that one facet thing can be I
Analyzing Romantic Development
00:21:44
Speaker
can see that but to say that great doesn't have a personality I'm like this girl she's funny she's resilient she's hard-working she's a great friend she's such a good friend in this book she calls Ethan out on his bullshit and that's exactly what he needs
00:21:58
Speaker
in his life. He has more of a personality than he does easily. So, yeah, let's walk back your statement of saying they don't have personalities, both of them, because she cleared us and she has mommy issues. And I am someone that will always latch on to someone that has mommy issues. You guys know this. I will give you that. Gray has way more of a personality than I agree with Kayla. Yes.
00:22:19
Speaker
But what about them together as a couple? Because, okay, so here's the thing. The thing is, is like when I read this book, the first like a bit of this book, I actually quite enjoyed, but it's when they come to Palm Springs, now granted the Palm Springs was a great scene, right? All that was great. But then suddenly it's like a weekend, a couple of days that they're together, right? And then all of a sudden they're like, oh my God, I love you.
00:22:44
Speaker
Huh? OK, so what? That reminds you started as well. Since again, you don't remember a lot of time takes place in this book. And it's actually reason why I love it, because I feel like so many romance novels are condensed to like a week a month. But like months take place over this book. And essentially, like years take place. We don't see them. OK, hold on. So by the time they get to Palm Springs, they've already been fake dating for like two months.
00:23:10
Speaker
And they're they've been spending a lot of time together. They have to go on all these public outings. And I agree. Yeah, we don't see all of them, but I think we see the important ones. So there's one when they go to this movie premiere and Ethan's like, you know, being Ethan, he's trying to keep her at arms and because from the moment that he met her, he's been attracted to her. And to him, he's like, anyone I get close to either ends up dead or end up hating me, his best friend and ex-wife included. Right. Or anyone that's close to him is someone that he pays. So he's trying to keep great at arms. So they go to this movie premiere that they're like contractually obligated to go to.
00:23:39
Speaker
And she runs into her ex-boyfriend who cheated on her. And it was all in the press. That's one of the only moments that she's been in the press. And it was humiliating for her. And her ex-boyfriend's trying to talk her up.
00:23:51
Speaker
And this is when fake dating is at its best, when they can be protected, but use this guy to, like, I'm your boyfriend to do so. So he goes up to her and her ex-boyfriend, and Ethan is the most famous person in the room. And he just kisses her to shut that guy up. And obviously, they're like, oh, it's a fake kiss, but it feels real. And that was really sweet. So that's a moment. And then you fast forward a little bit.
00:24:14
Speaker
And again, this is all before Palm Springs. She has a big audition coming up. That's why they're entering this fake relationship. So that way she can get her name out there more. That way she can land this movie. And she's been staying in his house like once a week. So they can be photographed like her leaving and coming. She's staying in his house again. He's like been trying to ignore her. Doesn't want to like get too close. And she's like, Hey, like I have this chemistry read coming up. Can you help me?
00:24:38
Speaker
And he's like, yeah, this guy has not acted in so long, his little drunk ass. And he helps her. And as actors, like chemistry is so important, like it can make or break like two characters. Right. And so the fact that they were able to do this chemistry read and it felt so real between them, like they could feel it. And then again, it got really intense towards the end because the scene ends in like a kiss.
00:25:00
Speaker
And they go for it. And he's like, well, like, that's like, this is too much. And then they go to Palm Springs. So there were incidents in which they were spending time together building a relationship. We don't see a lot of it. But the thing is, I feel like if we saw every little thing, it would have dragged, especially in the first 50 percent of that book before they got to Palm Springs. There's also even a time when he cooks her breakfast. And this is actually one of the funniest moments, I think, in the book.
00:25:26
Speaker
And because he's so dramatic and so self-loathing, he wanted her to say for breakfast. She's like, no, I'm just going to leave. And he's like, oh, well, do you want out of the contract? Is it me? Am I ruining things? And she's like, God, stop being a drama queen. I'll stay for breakfast. Jesus. And I thought it was just so funny. And I think that helped Ethan show, OK, this girl obviously isn't going anywhere. And I think she would be good for me. And then they go to Palm Springs. And that's where it deepens our relationship. Oh my god. All right.
00:25:53
Speaker
I will say like I think these isolated moments that you're describing were sweet moments but for me it was always one step forward three steps back in this book with Ethan because like I think the amount of time that you're talking about that this book takes place over sometimes works against them because I'm like what do you mean you're gonna have this kiss and then you're not gonna talk to her for three weeks and like barely look at her and ignore her when she's in your house like
00:26:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's over. You said that she sleeps over. But like during those times, most of those times she she vividly and I remember this. I don't remember a lot, but I remember this. She was like, I never saw him. So like she like doesn't see him all the time when she's even there when she's staying at his house to be photographed. She doesn't even see the man. Yeah. But they are still going on other outings.
00:26:44
Speaker
Yeah, but there's only like a handful. There's a handful. Again, it's not like they're out together all the time. This is the chemistry thing that I'm talking about. Like why wouldn't Ethan want to be around her if he's so attracted to her?
00:26:56
Speaker
I just told you he doesn't want to hold her close because he doesn't I literally said he in his mind he's like if I get close to her she's gonna end up hating me or like he holds so much guilt over his best friend dying and over his public messy divorce he doesn't want her close cuz he doesn't want to hurt her they have so much in common too like
00:27:17
Speaker
I think that's what makes them so good together, and that's how they're able to work. When I think about them, what I love is that if you think about it, they've been in the industry for the same amount of time. She started as a kid actor, he started in his teens, and there's an age gap between them, like 11 years. So same amount of time in the industry, and there are moments when they're talking when she can just be like, oh, you know this or you know that.
00:27:41
Speaker
there's just a level of understanding that they both automatically have from working in the same industry, but coming at it from different ways. And I think that's what provides them with a level of ease and comfort with each other. They didn't have to spend a lot of time like, oh, what do you do for work? It was just already there. There was already so many naturally built in conversations with them to have. I'm sorry, we didn't get to see every single last one.
00:28:07
Speaker
But it made me, it made me happy. And again, I personally, and this could just be like a me thing, I liked that there was months leading up to them actually like emitting their feelings. And the whole time that like she, that they're together, like another thing that I love that I think Ava Wilder does get in both her books is that these are two horny fucking adults, like
00:28:28
Speaker
Gray makes a point to say she hasn't had sex in years, Ethan hasn't had sex in years, and they're clearly attracted to each other. So even while they're avoiding each other, they keep thinking about one another. And it's like two months, essentially, of sexual tension and buildup that does explode once we get to Palm Springs. So I personally think they had a chemistry and a good, what's the word? It starts with an R, repertoire.
00:28:51
Speaker
Oh, no, report, report, report. I mean, I think, yeah, normally like them being together, quote unquote, with their fake dating for months would be a realistic timeline. But I just think that because the incidents were so isolated, it just for me just didn't seem realistic by the end of Palm Springs. Because like when they were not together, they weren't, they weren't together. They were just on their own doing whatever.
Key Moments in Palm Springs
00:29:18
Speaker
And so I just don't think that for me it felt realistic.
00:29:21
Speaker
if they would have come away from Palm Springs being like actually like I really like this person like I want to see if I can give it a shot rather than being like oh my god I love you
00:29:31
Speaker
Then then I've been like, OK, but no, they came away from being like, I love you. Let's let's talk about Palm Springs, because if you again, you guys don't remember, they did not in Palm Springs together. They actually like very quickly had that moment and then it goes south. So go ahead. Thinking it. Yeah. But I mean, you guys, we've all read books where the people fall in love in a week. So I just think it's funny that like in this book, it happened over the course of two months and you are like, oh,
00:30:00
Speaker
No, if an author can convince me that they're in love, then they're in love. That's the issue. Well, they can, they can, well, Ava Walder convinced me. So Palm Springs is actually, I think one of my, it contains two of my favorite moments in the book.
00:30:16
Speaker
And this is why I like Ava Wilder's writing so much because this book is really trope-heavy when you examine it from the outside. It's fake dating, it's age gap. She doesn't get sick, but in Palm Springs, she twists her ankles like he has to take care of her. There's only one bed. But she doesn't just write those things in for the sake of just having them there. We all know those books where we're like, ugh, this author's adding one bed just for the sake of it. She just makes it so natural.
00:30:43
Speaker
to where I'm not like, I'm just always like taking it in. And in Palm Springs, like I said, she twists her ankle and they were like, they go to Palm Springs first of all to like have this weekend where they're supposed to be like photographed at like this resort. It'll get them like a lot of publicity. And she twists her ankle and so they can't go to this dinner that they were supposed to go to. And he like picks her up and carries her back to their room. And he's like, okay, like what do you want?
00:31:08
Speaker
What do you want to eat? It's like almost 11 o'clock at night. And she's like, damn, I really want some waffles. But like, I know the breakfast place is closed. Like, it's OK. Like, just order me a burger. And so like, you know, time passes. He comes back with the room service tray while she's like in bed trying to nurse her ankle. And she opens up the room, the 10.
00:31:26
Speaker
And it was waffles. He ordered her waffles. And he's like, how did you do this? And he's like, I think you're forgetting. I'm very famous. And that's nothing that I love. Like if you are going to write a famous person who's super rich, make them use their celebrity for good and for the person.
00:31:43
Speaker
It just I'm like, hell yeah. Of course, if you're going to you're going to bribe people for her, you're going to like treat her well. Like, that's what I love about Richard. And so he got her waffles. I thought it was just like so sweet because she said it in like passing. And that's another reason why I think Ethan is so great, because he listens to like the little things that she says and he turns them into big moments for her. And Palm Springs is also when they finally have sex. And like, again, they've been like corny this entire book. And oh, my God, I was like shook because I wasn't expecting this book to actually have any smut.
00:32:12
Speaker
Because it's tried published and like able wilders I don't know how to describe like her writing style is very like neat to where it reads like, you know You just won't get any smile. I thought it was gonna be like closed or fade the black But no we get this like super hot in my opinion mutual masturbation scene where they had just like spent the whole day like they haven't gone anywhere because of her ankle and
00:32:34
Speaker
And she finds out that she landed the role to her movie. And so they're celebrating in the hotel room. They're drinking. She's getting a little high. And she's like, you know what? I want Ethan. I want him so bad. And again, he's trying to keep his distance, which I don't have to go over why that is again. And so they make out a little. But then he's like, I don't think this is a good idea.
00:32:55
Speaker
So then she goes in her bed but like leaves the door cracked open and so he's on the couch and she like starts masturbating and she can hear that he too is like masturbating on the couch and they finish and like they're like hearing each other they finish together so hot and then the next day she's like
00:33:10
Speaker
I think we should just fucking get it out of our systems. Like she was so bold about it, which is another thing that I like. Like she was never timid about her want for Ethan. And that's exactly what they do. They fuck up and down that Palm Springs villa. And it's very hot until it's not, which.
00:33:27
Speaker
It turns into a very sad thing because paparazzi were there and they actually photograph them having sex all over the villa took nude photographs of them without their permission and it gets leaked to the press while they're in Palm Springs where once they have agreed like okay like I think you know this could be something like
00:33:44
Speaker
we should definitely go back and try. Grey realizes that these photos are out before Ethan does, and she immediately starts packing her stuff to go. And that's Grey's thing is that she does not trust very easily. So the minute she's about to let Ethan in, she lets this one thing blow away all the progress that they made. And he was like, were you trying to leave in the middle of the night? And she's like, yeah. And she freaks out. And she leaves. And then the moment when she says, I'm in love, comes in an interview that comes out
00:34:11
Speaker
A few weeks later, and she's talking to this reporter, and she's like, the reporter's like, oh, you and Ethan aren't together anymore. And she's like, yeah, no, I just can't believe that this is happening to me, that someone took my private moment. She loses the movie deal that she had. And she's like, I can't believe I'm being punished for essentially falling in love. That's when the falling in love comes for the first time post Palm Springs. And then we get to her birthday party. But I'll leave some room for you guys to say anything right then and there.
00:34:41
Speaker
We said that Palm Springs was a great little bit. Yes. And that's where the love comes. And also in Palm Springs, that's when they talk the most to like, that's when he opens up to her about Sam and like why he feels so guilty. Because until that moment, we really don't know why he felt guilty because he called his best friend and create a partner out one night when he was drinking and like going through it with his wife and then his friend left the bar and gets in a car accident and dies. And then Gray actually opens up
00:35:09
Speaker
to Ethan about her time in the industry and how she feels like she's been very undervalued and how she's worked really hard. And that leads to my all-time favorite moment later on at her birthday party. They just opened up to each other really well. So one thing I haven't heard you talk about at all throughout this whole conversation. I already know what you're going to say today. We've been talking about 30 minutes or so. Ethan has kids, Kendra. Yeah, Ethan does have kids. You guys know that Ethan has kids?
00:35:37
Speaker
Yes, we do know that Ethan has kids. It's actually so funny. So Ethan has kids. And at the beginning of the book, when they're signing their contract, he says, I don't want my kids involved in this any way. I'm not denying that he's a deadbeat dad. It's almost like it's on purpose that he's a deadbeat dad because he's an alcoholic. Barely gets to see his kids like he he's purposely a deadbeat dad. No one's ever saying like, oh, my God, Ethan's a great dad. I have never said he's a great dad.
00:35:58
Speaker
He is a deadbeat dad. Like there's a moment when he gets so drunk where he misses his weekend and his wife is like, I had so many plans. His ex-wife was like, I had so many plans. Like you can't keep doing this to me. Like he is a deadbeat dad. And it's, there's a moment when he's telling Gray like, Oh, um, the best moment in life was when my kids were born. Like they're such great kids. And she's like, yeah, I wouldn't know. Like I'm contractually obligated like not to even see them. So like no one's denying he's a bad dad.
00:36:24
Speaker
But the thing is, is it would have helped me a lot more with Ethan's character if he had had moments with his kids and he like. But my thing is, those moments would have been bad. His best or his favorite moment was like when his kids were born. Yeah.
00:36:40
Speaker
Was it? Like you just don't ever see them. And I understand, I understand that he, you know, is an alcoholic and he probably shouldn't always be with them, but you can still have really heartfelt moments or even like angsty moments. Like if he was with his kids, you know, and think he's thinking about how much he loves them or something and how he wants to get better for them, blah, blah, blah. Like, I don't know something, but like we see them like how many, like maybe twice, once or twice. I can't really remember because, because I don't remember this book that well.
00:37:10
Speaker
But yeah, that's the thing. We just never see it. I'm not denying that he's like, I'm not saying that he's a good dad. I agree. He's a bad dad, but he's also failing at every other thing in his life. It's not just he's a bad dad. He's a bad employer. He employs his nephew, barely spends any time with him, treats him like shit, treats his ex-wife like shit. It makes it hard to root for him sometimes.
00:37:37
Speaker
Yeah, I also just like, did you guys go in thinking like, because like, I know like, I looked back at my TikTok feed and I was like, yeah, like he's a single dad, blah, blah, blah. Like that's factual. But did you guys go in thinking that like he was going to like be like a typical like romance hero, single dad, like.
00:37:51
Speaker
I thought the kids were gonna play a much larger part. I kind of don't understand why she even made him a single dad. Nor could have existed as his ex-wife and somebody he was very deeply in love with and has great respect for like he does in this book without them having kids. And I honestly think it would have made the story better because I don't really see the point of writing those kids in if he's just gonna neglect him because it does nothing for his character for me. Yeah, I feel like if you check out the kids, the story would be pretty much exactly the same. I don't know.
00:38:21
Speaker
disagree because I think a reason because he ignore the reason why they were fighting so much was because of the custody battle and I think it gave him something to earn at the end of the book because at the end when he's finally sober and has come back from rehab and is talking to Gray.
00:38:39
Speaker
like the thing that he's most proud of, which again, like we don't see this, but he's like, what does she say? He's like, Nora is gonna redo our custody agreement. And that makes him so happy. Like I'm finally gonna be able to see them now more. So again, another reason why we did not see those kids so much is because he legally was not allowed to see those kids a lot of the time.
00:38:58
Speaker
And I'm not saying that, like, that's not a great part because it is.
Critique of Character Growth and Rehab
00:39:02
Speaker
I just think like him being a father wasn't utilized to the best of his abilities. I'm not saying that his character should have been different. I just think that if the kids were involved more, how did you see that even playing out? Because I think if you saw more of the kids, it just would have made you pissed off more at him. Like you want to. That's what I'm saying. Like, I don't even think it like.
00:39:19
Speaker
Well, that's the thing is like, I know it, maybe it's realistic that there are people out there who are neglecting their kids. I don't want to read about it in a romance book. Like if she was going to utilize those kids, I wanted more moments like Kayla was saying, like they don't even have to be in there, but like he could be thinking about them. He barely ever even thinks about them. And I mean, it's third person, so he doesn't have POV, but like,
00:39:37
Speaker
he could have been sitting there, you know, in his self loathing, he could have spent more time loathing the fact that he was a shitty dad. Like, if they're going to be there, I wish like he, that would have been a bigger driving force in his want to get better than the fact that it was losing gray. And maybe it was everything at once. And that's why he decided to get better. Maybe it wasn't just gray, but
00:39:59
Speaker
I mean, I could see that argument, but I just, I wish he would have thought about them more because it made it hard for me to root for him at times and the way he treated his nephew. And I know that she's writing a flawed character and I, that might work for some people. And I think he could have been flawed, but still loved his kids more.
00:40:15
Speaker
I think he did love it because I just don't think he knew how to show it. I would never question whether or not he loved his kids. I'd never question that throughout. Because even the moment that we see of him being with the kids, the kids come to his house and that's when the kids meet Gray for the first time. He was so attentive.
00:40:33
Speaker
and they like had this whole day like playing in the pool and yeah that is just like one moment but I don't know like I never questioned whether or not he loved his kids I think he did love his kids I just think again his addiction and his everything else just beating his ass more that's just the reality of it yeah and I think like in this book I think this is a character who is a single dad this isn't a single parent romance obviously so I think I'm just really used to like any time I'm reading
00:40:58
Speaker
about a parent in a book. Like they're sitting there thinking like almost the entire book will center around how much they love their kid and want to like build that life for them and be the best for them. And that's just not what this book was. And I'm not saying I expected it to be a single parent romance, but I think it was just like a hard pill for me to swallow that. Like, yeah, it's not because it's different than other single dads, but I think that's why for me, I mean, it's hard for me to root for him at times.
00:41:25
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's just why I liked it. And I mean, not not that he was a bad dad, but I think it was like, yeah, like it was different. And like, I don't know, I just felt very, very real, like Ethan and Grey as characters, like their whole journey, like even his relationship with his ex-wife felt very like real, like they weren't.
00:41:44
Speaker
mad at each other, but they didn't necessarily like each other. Like, I don't know. I feel like it could have gone totally south because, you know, so many times you get like ex-wives and books. Yeah, they're the bitch who ruined his life. Yeah. Yeah. Or she's like the best, like she's his best friend and like she's always involved in like just once. And I'm just like, no, like there has to be a neutral ground. I feel like Ava Wilder found that neutral ground between them.
00:42:04
Speaker
Speaking of his rehab, we kind of touched on it a little bit, but normally I don't mind a time jump in books, and obviously this was obviously very necessary for Ethan to do. I'm not saying that, but I think what was hard for me
00:42:20
Speaker
at the end of this book is that, again, like we mentioned in our opening statement, that we don't really get to see a lot of his growth throughout rehab. We're just told that he comes back and he's like, better. And so I just wish that I personally saw more of that growth.
00:42:38
Speaker
And correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure, but again, since you're the one that we read that we don't get his point of view after he comes back. It's just through Gray's POV. Correct. Is that true? Yeah, that's for me, that's another issue. And that for me, I think I would have been fine. I am fine not having seen him in rehab because obviously there's like a lot of sacred work that happens in treatment facilities.
00:43:02
Speaker
But I would have liked to see his point of, I want to know what was he thinking when he came back to her? Why did he feel ready? Like what changes have happened in
Conclusion and Comparison to Other Works
00:43:10
Speaker
his head? I don't know. I again, like it didn't bother me that we didn't we didn't see it. And I think why is because when they go to talk after her play and he sits her down and he's like I think we just saw the work that he didn't rehab payout. And I think that's the most important part because
00:43:30
Speaker
He sits her down. He's like, hey, like I finally finished like the script that me and Sam had been working on his creative partner, like the thing he's been trying to get off the ground the entire time. And he's like, I really like what? How about you star in it? And like I direct it and like he has this like vision of like how it's meant to be.
00:43:46
Speaker
And Grey looks at him and she's like, no, like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to be your muse. I want to be your partner. And seeing Ethan process that in real time and accept it and move on and be like, you're right. Like, I don't know. I feel like that moment in and of itself just made me really happy because I was like, yes, he's out of rehab and like, yes, he's doing better, but there's still work to be done.
00:44:09
Speaker
And I feel like he will always be evolving and changing. Cause there's even a moment when he's like trying to be like super self-deprecating when he's reuniting with Gray and he like stops and stuff. And he's like, wait, nope, not supposed to do that anymore. Like I'm not supposed to talk shit about myself anymore. And I know that just made me, it made me happy seeing how far he had come. Like, yes, even though like we weren't shown from his point of view, but we still saw it. And that made me happy. Still wish we would have gotten, but can I take as my favorite moment in the entire book? Yeah. Oh God. Do we got a few more minutes? Go ahead.
00:44:38
Speaker
Yes, oh my gosh. When it's your turn, Kayla, and you want to defend, it's not my fault that I love this book and I can talk about it for a long time. My favorite moment in the entire book, so in Palm Springs, Wright Gray opens up about her first experience on a movie set and how she was a body double in a movie that was essentially the parent trap. But when she goes to the premiere of the movie as a kid, no one knows that she's in the movie because she was just a double. So she did all this work, but didn't get to reap the reward of it.
00:45:05
Speaker
And she tells Ethan this. And so after Palm Springs, they like broken up and he shows up at her birthday party, like wanting to get her back. And like, they have this really, in my opinion, beautiful love confession. And he's like, okay, I got you a birthday present. And she hasn't opened it until after he leaves. And it is the movie poster from that film. But he had to like track down her original like
00:45:27
Speaker
test shots from it like her photos and he recreated the poster with her and like put her name on it so that way she could finally see herself like in that spotlight that like she never got to see and that to me was just so sweet and so tender because like she just said that in passing like she had already moved on from it like in Palm Springs like and the fact that he like I don't know just took note of it and like did something about it just made me so happy and it was just so it was just so sweet like yeah she ate that one little thing
00:45:57
Speaker
Right? It was just sweet. I was like, oh, Ethan, like, again, like using your celebrity for good, because I'm pretty sure like tracking down those photos were like not easy. He probably had to make a lot of calls. It was just good. And before that, he like paid $20,000 to this random photographer that like caught them like making up at her birthday party and like took a photo of them. He chased the photographer down.
00:46:20
Speaker
And he comes back and Grace, like, what did you do? And he's like, oh, I just paid him a 20. And she's like, $20. He's like, no, $20,000. That's how much he was going to get for the photo. And she's like, you just spent $20,000 to protect me. Like, that is just, it was just sweet. Like, he was a sweet guy with her. He was sweet. Well, Kendra, I'm so glad that you loved this book. I did. I did. And again, this is my first Eva Walder book.
00:46:49
Speaker
Yeah, and I want to be clear that all of us have read Will They or Won't They and really, really like love that book. Yeah, I thought it was really good. We love that book. I think that one never mind. I don't want to say it. I'll say this. I think no, no, no, it won't make me upset. I think Will They or Won't They is much more focused on the romance. Right. We're so much of how to pick it in Hollywood. It's it's romance.
Anticipation for Future Works
00:47:11
Speaker
But like so much of that book is about Ethan and his addiction that
00:47:14
Speaker
like I think Ethan as a character to me is way more interesting than Shane and like you speak because you spend more time like in Ethan's like you were Shane it's like it's Shane and what's name Lila like that is the story whereas when how to pick in Hollywood it's you have Ethan and gray and then you have gray story and then you have Ethan story and their individual journeys so I think will they want they just more romance heavy and I like it is death
00:47:37
Speaker
Are you saying that book doesn't have any depth? No, it does, but I just... Oh, depth. Depth. Oh, okay. I thought you said depth. I was like, what? No, I like my romance with a little bit more. I like romance with a lot of depth. I like... Will Ayer Walthay has depth? It does, but I feel like How to Fake in Hollywood has more, because it's just more focused on their individual journeys. I think the depth... I think How to Fake in Hollywood has a lot of potential.
00:48:04
Speaker
um had a lot of potential for me and the depth wasn't the issue for me it was what we said like the lack of chemistry as may be created by that additional depth like if we got to spend more time with the couple if the book was a little bit longer which i she probably didn't have a whole lot of control of because it's trad published but if it was like a little bit longer and we spent more time with them like actually falling in love with each other i think i could have been more on board
00:48:27
Speaker
Well, they had chemistry to me. Also, one other thing. I said this in my TikTok. Sorry, Kayla, I just keep fucking talking. Ava Walder wrote a world. I said this earlier. It felt so real, but so many of the characters are, what am I trying to say, multicultural, different ethnicities, different sexualities. And it all felt natural. So many times authors just put that there and you're like, ugh.
00:48:53
Speaker
Of course, they included a gay character. Like, we have a non-binary character. We have a successful Black director. Ethan's ex-wife is Asian, married to, like, a Hispanic director. Like, I don't know. It all just felt very nice. So, like, me reading a debut from an author and seeing that come off, in my opinion, flawlessly. Like, I'm sorry. I got to give you flowers for flowers too, because that's... I usually have to beg for that shit. And she could have easily made everyone in this book pasty white. And she did not. And that made me happy.
00:49:23
Speaker
yeah sorry to bore you guys oh my god you're not boring us you guys look miserable you're dramatic every time we talk about this book yeah every time we talk about it it's just yeah it's just every time we talk talk ad nauseam about a book that not all of us like
00:49:42
Speaker
Which is rare. And it makes me happy that I do know a lot of people that do like this book. So I feel validated even without you guys. I feel like Brandi and I are in the minority. So I'm going to be really honest. This whole conversation makes me want to reread just to like see if my points stand or if Kendra's points stand. Maybe I will. Yeah. Do it with your eyeballs this time. I don't think you make me want to. But that's OK. OK. So, Caleb, is your book going to be two wrongs make a right? I don't know what mine's going to be. I have to read it first.
00:50:12
Speaker
Have you read a Chloe Lee's book? I honestly don't know if whether or not you're like it. Cause I feel like I'm very much in the minority of her. I don't like her writing those new covers. Oh, they're stunning. Great. I love those initial covers are butt ass ugly. I mean, but this, this was my, I will say the difference between Kendra and I with two wrongs is that that was my first Chloe Lisa book. And that was Kendra's like what third or fourth after having mediocre, a mediocre time with her other books. So.
00:50:40
Speaker
yeah i think she does a great job with the diversity but the plots always are just they make me want to ring her not ring her neck ring the character she wants to make a right is fake dating revenge fake dating yeah i like you don't have to talk about it now i know i didn't give it five stars though just to be very clear so you were talking about it like you did
00:51:04
Speaker
The case of How to Fake it in Hollywood is now closed. As far as the verdict, we'll let the people decide. Yeah, I think people will be pretty split. Like I've seen plenty of people be like, you know, this book wasn't that great. And I've seen people who absolutely love it. So yeah, really, I haven't seen that many people not love it like you.
00:51:26
Speaker
But I don't know. Maybe I'm following different people. Yeah, we'll see. But I loved it. I think more people do like it than not. I will say that. I just want to reiterate that Kayla and I did not hate this book. We did not love it as much as Kendra did. And we are dramatic people. So we make that the biggest deal possible. Literally, I'm like, we're about to get like a hate deal. Questions?
00:51:48
Speaker
question for you guys though. Is it harder sometimes do you think when like the group of us reads a book that somebody else loves and we feel we're just like about it versus if we were just to like just not like it like at all like sometimes I feel like it being okay sometimes hurts more only because I don't know because you had such strong feelings about it do you know what I mean I don't know when I recommend a book to you guys and you don't like enthusiastically like it or love it it feels the same to me as if you hate it so
00:52:18
Speaker
Exactly. That's what I mean. Yeah. So like, I wish you would have never read it when that happens. Like The Winter King. Kayla, I wish you'd never read that book. Versus like, I mean, obviously I'm glad you didn't hate it because that wasn't so that wasn't like a ridiculous waste of your time, but it doesn't make it even slightly better to me. That was just okay. You kept me company on my road trip. All right. What about you, Kayla? Do you think the same?
00:52:44
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, but I feel that way even about not just you guys, like strangers, like I'll be on Instagram and I'll see people like they'll read a book that I was just recently raving about and they'll be like, oh, this book sucked. And I'm like, oh my God, just call me a slur next time. Jesus Christ. I take it.
00:53:01
Speaker
i take it so personal and then i have to like check because i just have to check myself i'm like kindred it's literally a book like but it just hurts more when you like are attached to the characters and like we love them because then it feels like a personal
00:53:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, let us know on our Instagram on this post for this episode about defend a book. Let us know who you think one we are at. Bring your own pod. All of our personals are linked in that bio. If you want to check out our personal bookstagrams, but this is so fun.
00:53:34
Speaker
Hopefully no friendships were ruined in the process of making this episode. No. And, um, I am very excited for Ava Walders 2025 release. Sounds so good. Is she really not releasing one at all next year?
00:53:47
Speaker
No, which you know, trad publishing, how it works. But I am super excited. So if you have not read Eva Wilder, sorry we just spoiled this entire book for you. But you should definitely check her out. I think she's a great writer and I can't wait to see what else she does in her career. And there's really good Ethan and Gray slash Shane and Lila fan art that you can find on her Instagram. Oh my God, it's so good. It is, it's very good.
00:54:39
Speaker
Alright, bye guys! Bye!